Introducing: The Bulwark’s SECRET WEAPON (w/ Jared Poland)

Summary

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FYPod: Introducing: The Bulwark’s SECRET WEAPON (w/ Jared Poland)

The Bulwark | September 27, 2025

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Overview

This episode of FYPod, hosted by Tim Miller and Cam Caskey, features an in-depth conversation with Jared Poland—a key behind-the-scenes force at The Bulwark who is responsible for rapid news monitoring and "live clipping," making him the team's "secret weapon." The hosts explore Jared's background as a Gen Z political observer raised in rural Tennessee, his path from conservatism to progressive politics, and his experience tracking media narratives from Trump rallies to TikTok trends. The episode serves both as an origin story for a new voice shaping digital political commentary and as an exploration of Gen Z’s shifting political landscape, workplace ethos, and dating culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jared’s Background: Life in Rural Tennessee and Awakening to Politics

• Rural Upbringing and Early Politics
  • Jared grew up in Tennessee in a Republican, law-enforcement family and attended a small rural high school, where he participated in sports and Model UN, but didn’t feel particularly plugged in to news yet.
    • "I was a Model UN, Youth and government kid." (04:45)
• First Forays into Politics
  • Jared was eligible to vote in 2016; he leaned toward Marco Rubio but ultimately abstained in the general because he felt alienated by both major candidates.
    • “I was in Tennessee. I wasn't a big Hillary Clinton guy, wasn't a big Trump guy. And I sat it out...” (04:39)

2. Pandemic, Turning Points & Family Influence

• COVID Pandemic as a Catalyst
  • Watching Trump’s COVID briefings during lockdown reignited his political interest and pushed him away from Republicanism, especially as he witnessed the mishandling of public health and direct impacts on his family’s access to healthcare.
    • "Covid and the Republican Party’s kind of psychotic, proto-schizophrenic response to it actually made you say, wait, hold on, this isn’t for me.” (07:00)
  • January 6th was the "for sure tipping point."
    • “January 6th was like the for sure tipping point for me.” (07:34)
• Feeling Ostracized in Conservative Communities
  • The social cost of being a non-Trump supporter in rural areas (he recounts a principal declining to let him represent the school on TV after learning he hadn’t voted for Trump).
    • “You don't want to feel like you're that woke lib that's kind of isolated from everybody in your small rural community...” (08:41)

3. The Bulwark ‘Secret Weapon’: What Does Jared Actually Do?

• Rapid Response and ‘Live Clipping’
  • Jared is responsible for monitoring political events, flagging and pushing out newsworthy moments to Bulwark’s journalists and social media in real time.
    • "For the past four years, I've watched just about every Trump interview, Trump rally... And I did it for work, but also because I'm deeply fascinated in it." (18:47)
• Work Ethic & Gen Z Stereotypes
  • Addresses the “lazy Zoomer” stereotype; Jared (and the hosts) push back, noting hard-working self-starter Gen Zs exist, especially those without family connections.
    • “He did want a job with heating, but he also is willing to work like 107 hours per week, which is what we're about to get to in his job. And, and I do think that is a unique trait in Gen Z.” (16:24)

4. Gen Z’s Turn Right: Exploring the TikTok Generation’s Shift

• Barriers for Democrats Among Young Conservatives
  • Many of Jared’s college peers disliked both Trump and establishment Democrats, often citing “woke shit” as a turnoff (e.g., fear of being cancelled, language policing).
    • "I would say they're tired of the woke shit is how they would say it." (33:03)
• Peer Pressure, Groupthink, and Identity
  • Cam expands on the difficulty of dissenting in tightly-knit communities and the power of peer pressure to stifle political heterodoxy.
    • “...since everybody around them characterizes those alternatives as something that is so harmful, crazy, and bad, it's hard to want to be a part of that...” (09:37)
• White Male Alienation and Woke Politics
  • Debates whether criticisms about “being a white guy” from the left are legitimate or coddling, and examines strategic vs. substantive issues in Democratic messaging to disaffected white men.
    • “I can understand how that chaps their ass a little bit...” (38:06)
    • “I don't want to baby people...we're still the easiest type of person to be in the world. Being a white man in America...” (42:11)
• Democratic Party’s Struggle with Messaging
  • The hosts critique both staff composition and voice/language used by Dems online, suggesting greater attention to how messages are received by ‘average’ younger men.
    • “I think that it probably wouldn't hurt to have one Ole Miss frat bro on every Democratic presidential campaign just to look at the tweet before it sent and is like, is this going to sound cringe as fuck?” (48:30)

5. Personal & Social Life — Gen Z Dating, Culture, and Communication

• Jared’s Relationship and Work/Life Balance
  • Jared shares the story of meeting his girlfriend (“a lib love story at an Ole Miss crawfish boil,” 25:41) and talks about the importance of having parts of life untouched by politics.
    • “...normally I come in and talk about just the most absurd shit that's happening because I just need to vent about it. But typically after that... we're talking family drama... our cat... shows that aren't politically related.” (27:49)
• Gen Z Communication Anxiety: Viral Video Discussion
  • The hosts play and discuss a viral video about the difficulties of small talk among younger Gen Zers, highlighting struggles with basic social skills and the role of COVID isolation.
    • “Like, I'm an elder Gen Z and small talk's like, a real problem struggle.” (55:14)
• Sex, Dating, and the Myth of New ‘Zoomer’ Norms
  • The group lampoons an Atlantic article implying Gen Z has invented new hookup terminology (“breadcrumbing,” “sneaky link,” etc.), concluding these are old behaviors with new labels.
    • “Why are they writing about this like zoomers are a new tribe deep in the Amazon … all this is normal stuff…” (56:45)
    • “Both of you do have done first base first, you know. You haven't, like, gone straight to BDSM or something? No, gone.” (59:36)

6. Media Ecosystem: Why “Live Clipping” Matters & Who Gen Z Listens To

• Internet Personalities as Power Brokers
  • Jared and Cam argue that the path to win young men isn't to mimic bro-pod hosts or memes, but to meet them where they already are (Rogan, comedians' pods) and have authentic conversations.
    • “You have to go meet them where they are... if you're going on The View... you're not reaching the young dudes.” (47:40)
• Authenticity Over Meme Strategy
  • They critique politicians and Democratic staffers for overrelying on meme lingo (“Dark Brandon”) and argue that real substance and relatable delivery matter more than shoehorning in trendy Internet language.
    • “If the Democrats let all the other people do it and didn't try... Dark Brandon... then Biden got in on it and it wasn't cool anymore.” (49:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the COVID/Trump awakening:
  “I had nothing better to do than to sit and watch Trump's pressers every day where he was saying the most insane shit you could ever imagine like injecting yourself with bleach. Which nowadays, comparatively, I don't think that what he was doing back then is really that insane compared to what he's doing now.”
  — Jared Poland (05:35)

• On peer pressure in conservative communities:
  “You don't want to feel like you're that woke lib that's kind of isolated from everybody in your small rural community...”
  — Jared Poland (08:41)

• On Gen Z work ethic:
  “He did want a job with heating, but he also is willing to work like 107 hours per week, which is what we're about to get to in his job. And I do think that is a unique trait in Gen Z.”
  — Tim Miller (16:24)

• On “woke shit” as a turnoff:
  “I would say they're tired of the woke shit is how they would say it. Like they just are tired of like feeling like they have to like censor themselves if they have like a hot take on something or like scared that they're gonna get canceled because they say retard or something like that.”
  — Jared Poland (33:03)

• On white-male grievance politics:
  “But, like, there is a certain point where, like, if someone's just, like, yelling at you because you're just a white dude, like, that's not necessarily right. Like, you, like, wouldn't do it the other way, and it'd be acceptable.”
  — Jared Poland (39:58)

• On authenticity and Democratic messaging:
  “…it probably wouldn't hurt to have one Ole Miss frat bro on every Democratic presidential campaign just to look at the tweet before it sent and is like, is this going to sound cringe as fuck?”
  — Tim Miller (48:30)

• On Gen Z’s social awkwardness:
  "Like, I'm an elder Gen Z and small talk's like, a real problem struggle."
  — Jared Poland (55:14)

• On sex, dating, and Atlantic “trend” pieces:
  "Why are they writing about this like zoomers are a new tribe deep in the Amazon … all this is normal stuff…"
  — Tim Miller (56:45)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Jared’s Background & Upbringing: 02:13 – 08:23
• Pandemic Turning Point & Family: 05:35 – 08:23
• Peer Pressure, Small-Town America & Out-Group Politics: 08:23 – 11:15
• Jared’s Current Work at the Bulwark (Rapid Response): 18:47 – 22:39
• Gen Z and Democratic Challenges: 33:03 – 36:24
• The ‘Woke’ Backlash and White Male Alienation: 38:06 – 42:11
• The Importance of Authenticity/Messaging: 47:40 – 52:30
• Jared’s Relationship & Gen Z Dating Norms: 25:21 – 28:16; 56:44 – 60:00
• Atlantic ‘Zoomer Base’ Article & Sex Slang: 55:14 – 60:49
• Gen Z Communication Video Reaction: 53:40 – 55:50

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers an illuminating portrait of one plugged-in Gen Z observer navigating an era of polarized politics, digital labor, and evolving cultural scripts. It’s as much a window into the daily grind of monitoring MAGA media as it is an exploration of generational identity and disaffection—punctuated by laughs about dating, memes, and “lib love” stories.

Listeners walk away with a sense not just of what’s driving Gen Z’s political shift, but of how the new media landscape gets shaped every day in the trenches by people like Jared Poland.

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Transcript

[Tim Miller]

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[Cam Caskey]

I just don't want to be in a situation where it's the majority of what my partner and I are. Talk. Not partner, partner, because it could be a man or a woman. I'm not saying. I'm not saying partner about a woman.

[Tim Miller]

Stop calling your girlfriend a partner. I will come up there and smack. Hey, everybody. I'm Tim Miller.

[Cam Caskey]

And I'm Cam Caskey. And this is our Zoomer show at Bulwark Fypod, where we talk about new stuff and cool stuff and young stuff and the fact that my generation might not be completely in the toilet. We've got some heroes and some people doing the real work, like our friend Jared here. Jared is somebody who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders. Not unlike the great Atlas who, if you read Greek. Well, great. It's a complicated way to put it. Atlas did some bad stuff, but.

[Tim Miller]

But, you know, is this an Ayn Rand shout out or did you know, did you go through an Ayn Rand phase?

[Cam Caskey]

No, it looks like one because I'm kind of shrugging right now. Yeah, but this is not an Atlas Shrugged reference. This is. Jared carries a lot of weight on his shoulders because Jared is one of the soldiers at Bulwark who has to watch and perceive and process the news at warp speed. And Jared, before we get into your tremendous responsibilities, I want to get a little bit into you. You're a youngster with a job, and that is quite rare in this day and age. So can you just tell us your first date background? I'm Jared. Here's where I come from. Here's how. How I got where I am. And your interests.

[Tim Miller]

Kinks.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah, that I can do. So I am from the South. I grew up in Tennessee. I grew up in a Republican family. I then went to the University of Mississippi, where I grew to really be interested in the news while I was there. Yeah, we're playing LSU this weekend. Gonna be a close one.

[Cam Caskey]

Before we get to your inevitable wokeification, once you go to big education and get wokeified, what kind of high school kid were you? Were you into the news then? Were you a debate Lord Drama?

[Jared Poland]

I was into politics then, but not as much like, watching the news. Like, I was a Model UN Youth and government kid.

[Tim Miller]

So did you make it to Naaman?

[Jared Poland]

I did not, unfortunately.

[Tim Miller]

You weren't at my level. I was playing Model UN kind of at a. I was like, on a different plane from the rest of the Model UN nerds. They didn't know how to deal with me. I made multiple people cry during Model UN conferences. I was a little bit. You might be surprised to hear this, Cameron. But in high school, I was a little prickly.

[Cam Caskey]

What country were you the best at being during Model un?

[Tim Miller]

You'll like this. One of my national awards was from playing Yasser Arafat. Yeah. So I liked. I liked doing that. I also liked to be in kind of the weird countries.

[Cam Caskey]

Yasser era twink.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, Yasser era twink. I wish I was a twink then. Anyway, long story. Sorry, Jared, we cut you off in high school. You were. What kind of kid were you? What table did you sit at?

[Jared Poland]

I mean, I was playing sports. I think I was probably at, like, this, like, almost cool kids table, but I wasn't quite there. But, like, I was. I played all the sports. I was really involved in a lot of different stuff. I naturally.

[Tim Miller]

What was your best athletic achievement? What's the highlight of your athletic career?

[Jared Poland]

We weren't very good at mini sports, but we did win our district three times in basketball, which was kind of cool, but we weren't, like, the greatest. It was a small high school.

[Tim Miller]

Like, were you, like the backup power forward or.

[Jared Poland]

I was a center because I went to a 1A school. So I graduated with 68 kids. It was kind of a rural high school. And because of that, like, I was the tallest kid on the team, so I was playing.

[Tim Miller]

What's your height?

[Jared Poland]

I'm 6 4, so I'm tall, but I'm not, like, huge.

[Cam Caskey]

64 is the real deal, dude. Backup power forward sounds like a gay sex position. Like, oh, my God. I met this guy at Fire Island Pines. We really hit it off. Then we found out that both of us are backup power forwards.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know what that would even mean, Jared. You get to college. Ole Miss. You couldn't have gotten wokeified at Ole.

[Jared Poland]

Miss I mean, no, but Donald Trump kind of did it to me. So in 2016, that was the first election I was able to vote in. I couldn't vote in the primary, but I was like a big Rubio guy in the primary. I was hoping he would win. He did not, of course. Then the general came around. I was in Tennessee. I wasn't a big Hillary Clinton guy, wasn't a big Trump guy. And I sat it out because I was in Tennessee. I was like, I'm not going to really change things here. And I don't want to put my name next to either of them.

[Tim Miller]

Commenters. Don't start commenting yet and start making fun of Jared, okay? Let's just let him finish his whole story, all right? Judge him as a man in full.

[Cam Caskey]

It's not about where you've been, it's where you've ended up and where you want. You want to focus on going, but for the algorithm, because comments, get our video in front of more people. You can flame Jared right now, go.

[Tim Miller]

For it, but then comment again at the end when you can judge him as a man in full. Okay?

[Cam Caskey]

Leave another comment saying, nevermind.

[Jared Poland]

So I go to college, I join a fraternity, do all the Ole Miss stuff, go to the football games. Not super into politics all that much when I'm in college. Until probably right before COVID really started to kick off. I started, like, tapping into the news a lot. But then when Covid happened, I would say that's like when I really started to get back into the politics weeds because I got sent home and I was stuck in Tennessee. I had nothing better to do than to sit and watch Trump's pressers every day where he was saying the most insane shit you could ever imagine, like injecting yourself with bleach. Which nowadays, comparatively, I don't think that what he was doing back then is really that insane compared to what he's doing now. But I was also living in Tennessee at home with my mom, my grandpa, my brother, sitting inside watching this stuff all day and getting Sir Marjorie Taylor Greene ads all the time.

[Tim Miller]

Are Trump voters. I mean, you don't need to out any family member particular, but you're in rural Tennessee, so I'm just doing context clues.

[Jared Poland]

So, like, my grandpa, my mom's side is very Christian. And so he, like, votes third party. Well, he votes third party, actually. Like, Trump is a big turnoff for him. Other side of my family, I could see maybe my grandpa voting for Trump. Not really sure. I haven't asked him. My dad's not a huge fan of Trump, but he is former police. Like, I grew up in a law enforcement household.

[Cam Caskey]

Dad's former police. And he will not shut the fuck up about how bad Trump is to the point where, like, neither do I. But I'm like, dad, you are screaming into a bubble. All of us agree, you can chill for a second. But so what I'm seeing here right now is a very interesting narrative, which is at a time where I feel the pandemic got a lot of young men radicalized even harder because of the content that was being put in front of them and the way that it was facilitated. I think what you're getting at is Covid and the Republican Party's kind of psychotic proto schizophrenic response to it actually made you say, wait, hold on, this isn't for me.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah, that along with, I mean, January 6th was like the for sure tipping point for me. But like the build up to it. I watched in real time, like I was watching the rallies the day before January 6th happened. I was watching their reaction to the election on Fox News after the election happened and them acting like they won despite them not winning, like all the election denial stuff. I was like, this is just, I'm tired of it. And also at the time, my grandpa been in the car wreck and because of that, my brother was taking care of him. My brother didn't have access to health care. And so, like, my views on like health care policy also kind of moved me away from the Republican Party because I was like, people like my brother who like, can't work at the time because they're taking care of my grandpa, like, they should have like a reasonable option that's good. And I feel like the Republican Party in a lot of ways wants to take that kind of stuff away.

[Tim Miller]

Do you have any working theories on why more people don't have that story in rural America? I mean, there's a lot of people that have bad experiences with the health care system in rural America. And, you know, is it just cultural stuff that you felt less drawn to?

[Jared Poland]

I would say the feeling like you're in the out group in your community is like a real issue in rural America. For example, my principal in high school had like a Hillary for a prison sign in his front yard. Almost everyone in my high school was super trumpy. After the election, I was asked to go talk about who I voted for and when he found out, like on TV and when he found out because he knew I was in the youth and government and stuff. When he found out that I wasn't a Trump voter. He picked someone else, which was an interesting choice. But I think it's mostly just you don't want to feel like you're that woke lib that's kind of isolated from everybody in your small rural community, because a lot of those people are watching Fox News every night. They think the right is right, the left is like basically demons, and so it's hard to make that turn. Also, I think the Democratic Party's really struggled to reach those people, and I don't really know the solution to that, but I feel like they're looking for an answer that's at their level and they're not getting it from anyone.

[Cam Caskey]

This is something I talk about when I talk about other Jewish people being critical of what the state of Israel is doing, where, like, a lot of them do have feelings where they're against what's going on. It's just really hard when you have to go back to the dinner table and you have to go back to your community and everybody else is just so reinforcing the fact that you really shouldn't have differing opinions. And I think that that happens across the political spectrum where people are curious about alternatives to what they've been supporting. But since everybody around them characterizes those alternatives as something that is so harmful, crazy and bad, it's hard to, like, want to be a part of that because, you know, you don't want to stick out like a sore thumb and seem like you're being like a wet blanket and also just a negative force on the people around you. And I think that's a very real thing is just sort of the peer pressure from folks in your sphere that makes you say, okay, you know, since I'm not a billion percent sure that I completely align with every single aspect of being lib pilled, I'm just going to step away from it to avoid the very real and understandable pressure to fall for that. So I imagine your way of going about that wasn't going in and debate lording everybody around you. It was just saying, you know what? My politics are my politics, and I'm going to progress forward in that direction. Confident.

[Tim Miller]

You also didn't stay, right? I mean, you know, maybe it's different if you stay.

[Cam Caskey]

Where did you so. So when you went back to Tennessee, did you go ahead and finish at Ole Miss once school opened back up?

[Jared Poland]

Yeah, so I graduated in 2021. So I basically Covid after sort of the first half of 2020 ceased to exist in the Minds of many people in Oxford, Mississippi, like they were going to the bars, they were having a good time. So I actually went home right around spring break and I moved back to Oxford in July because I wanted to get out of the house as quickly as I could. I was just tired of being stuck inside, not being able to do anything. But then when I went back to Oxford, a lot of my friends were going out and partying. I was not doing that because I didn't have the vaccine. Also I had an in person class which was like with my thesis advisor who was an older gentleman, Professor Mitchell. He's great, love him. And I was having to go interview people in the Mississippi Delta about flooding in the delta. And because I was doing that, I tried to really limit my contact with people because I don't want to give some person that's letting me come into their home and interview them Covid because I was out partying on the square.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, Jared, this is going to make this interview tough and boring because there is something that you have going for you which is that you're a good person that cares about other people, it seems like. And so that, that doesn't give us a lot of insight into how to win over Mecca.

[Cam Caskey]

Look at what I'm repping on my torso right now. It's a, it's a heel with a high heel with an American flag on it that's stepping on an orange because that's what Donald Trump is, is from the Jim Owls Liberal Democratic Club in New York City. Some of my good friends in local New York politics. Not that I'm focused on that right now, but Jared, so you went from graduating Ole Miss, losing some valuable school time to the pandemic, which so many people in our generation can unfortunately relate to. Especially those young high schoolers who had to go from eighth grade into a new high school where they're supposed to meet new people, all via FaceTime. It was so disappointing. And now you're working at Bulwark, which, not to toot anybody's horn here, you know, is a job that a lot of very qualified and interesting people might be going for because they are excited about the independent media space as something that is growing and dynamic and interesting.

[Tim Miller]

They're seeing potential financial opportunities. I mean, the Free press just got $150 million. You never know.

[Cam Caskey]

Like, you know, a lot of media people who want to do the work are seeing CBS make Barry Weiss turn it, turn it into like some anti woke weird shit. And they're seeing Ellison by C. There's they're seeing Ellison at cbs, they're seeing ABC go after Jimmy Kimmel. Like, I think a lot of people are excited about independent media as something that can actually be a form of journalism. But you're a youngster, you know, you're not the typical, the typical bulwark person where, where you're 45 years older than I am, except for Tim. So what, what, what, what did you do to get there? Like, what were your bonafides? Dude, how'd you swing this shit?

[Jared Poland]

So right after I graduated college, I was looking for jobs a couple different places. I found a canvassing job in D.C. with the ACLU standing on the street talking to people in front of the Smithsonian, talking to them in Georgetown, wherever it might be, asking them, hey, do you have a minute to talk about voting rights or do you have a minute to talk about the right to vote? Free speech. Like, there's a couple different pitches and so horrible job. Yeah, it was terrible. I was debating people when I wasn't really interested in debating. I just wanted to raise money for the aclu, but basically I was on the street selling the idea of the aclu, but like not giving them any tangible product. I was like, hey, give me a monthly donation. And so I did that until about late September of that year. I'm approaching my fourth year working for Sarah because I then got hired by her other company doing the same kind of work. Rapid response for Republican Accountability Project at the time. And then I ended up doing rapid response for Republican Accountability pac. But basically I just had an interview and was like, I really want to work somewhere that has heating because it's about to get cold outside. And I really want to fight back against this very much growing authoritarian movement that I was seeing online amongst sort of the younger people in the MAGA movement.

[Tim Miller]

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[Tim Miller]

All right, I'm Going to. Oh, shit, I lost my Gen Z. I lost my Gen Z term. What are we saying? I was about to say gloss, but we say glaze. That we're now they're trying to do. I'm going to glaze Jared for a second because he's being humble. He did want a job with heating, but he also is willing to work like 107 hours per week, which is what we're about to get to in his job. And, and I do think that is a unique trait in Gen Z. I mean, Cam, how many of your friends are working 107 hours per week?

[Cam Caskey]

Would you say all of them that can get a fucking chance to do it, really? But yeah, people want to get to work right now. And I think that, you know, the lazy entitled zoomer at work thing is a very real thing, but I think a lot of those lazy, entitled zoomers at work are very often the ones who got their job from like a family connection. The ones who got their job in an easier way than people who didn't have kind of a head start. And I think a lot of the more self starter types who really went in and fought for it and really wanted to go the extra mile, they are willing to go in and put in that extra work. So when I see articles about zoomers like having their parents call their boss, which I think is utterly fanciful, and like, there's 10 examples of it that are just.

[Tim Miller]

Has your mother ever called Sarah Longwell Jer?

[Jared Poland]

No. And if she did that, I would lose my mind also. Sarah would never let that in. She would just make fun of me for that for the rest of my life.

[Cam Caskey]

Yeah, like my closest example of that is my dad sent in a boomer mailbag question that Tim was very amused by.

[Tim Miller]

It was really funny. But I did have, I guess my closest example is I did have a bulwark superfan suggest their daughter as a babysitter and that turned out great. So I appreciate that mom for her helicopter momming. Yeah, she messaged me out of the blue and was like, my daughter lives by you. Do you want a babysitter? I was like, yeah, I do.

[Cam Caskey]

Lose was a fan.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, worked out great. So. So sometimes overbearing mothers and zoomer and zoomers can work out, but you know, you have to be, you have to be judicious in choosing it. So, so, so if you are a zoomer that and Cameron is correct, and you Want to work 107 hours per week and you don't like Donald Trump that much, you should, you should call us because I'm, I'm a little bit skeptical that there are other people that have the dog in them like Jared does. And maybe you'll change your mind as well after you hear a little bit about what Jared's day looks like. Why don't you tell us, like, what a day looks like for you, Jay?

[Jared Poland]

So nowadays I wake up in the morning, I look, what hour would you say?

[Tim Miller]

What time are you getting up?

[Jared Poland]

I'm normally a late night guy, so I get up about seven, but like, I'm up until one a lot of the time. But I get up in the morning, get ready for the day. As soon as I get into the office, I'm looking to see what events are happening for the day. Typically, I already have an idea of what's going to go on, but I'm looking at Trump's calendar, I'm looking at the congressional schedule, and I'm trying to eye out interesting hearings, I'm trying to eye out interesting interviews, stuff that I think is going to be newsworthy. And then after I figure it out, I load them into the great software that we use, Snapstream. Huge shout out to snapstream. Love them. And I watch all of these hearings, I watch all of the pressers, and I'm looking for the stuff that's newsworthy. And so basically, for the past four years, I've watched just about every Trump interview, Trump rally. I watched all of Kamala's rallies, I watched all of her interviews. And I did it for work, but also because I'm deeply fascinated in it. But now that's my day to day.

[Tim Miller]

That includes like Saturday. You're doing that?

[Jared Poland]

Not as much now, but during the campaign cycle. I was like, every Saturday that there was a rally, I was watching it. Yeah.

[Cam Caskey]

Just so we know what's going on with this, you find the moments to flag and pull for the bulwark commentators and journalists. And in presumably Slack, you say every time something comes up, hey, everybody, FYI, this just happened, you know, respond accordingly.

[Jared Poland]

So a lot of it, we actually push out like straight to social media as soon as it happens in a lot of, like in a lot of cases. And then also there's a guy I work with, Brendan. He is terrific.

[Tim Miller]

We love Brendan. I tried to make this a double show. Jared and Brenda, doa. I was gonna make them both sit in one screen like that, you know, like the Muppets, like the old Muppets. But Brendan was Statler and Waldorf. Yeah, thank you. We need Cameron for this is why the gen Z show works. We need Cameron for all the 1970s references, and we need me to talk about music that happened after the year 2020. So, you know, it's confusing.

[Cam Caskey]

I asked Tim his favorite R.E.M song yesterday, and he goes, R.E.M is Gen X. And I'm like, dude, if I am asking you, REM is timeless.

[Tim Miller]

REM is not timeless. Anyway, so Brenda didn't want to do it. I apologize for interrupting you. So Jared's representing the duo.

[Jared Poland]

So Brendan actually started working for Sarah in August of 2024. So he was like trial by fire in a lot of ways. Like, we were covering every rally, like, three, four a day, whatever it might have been. So he came in, and I was like, I need help with this. And he jumped right in, and I taught him how to go about what we call live clipping, which is watching the rallies, finding the stuff that is worth pushing out to people or that we deem worth pushing out to people and doing it as quickly as possible. There's a lot of other people that do it that I really admire, which, like Asen, Aaron Rupar. I have been following their work since, like, back in 2020 when I was at home. Like, I was watching their stuff shout.

[Tim Miller]

Out to Asin and Aaron Rupar. But the. I mean, the live clipping of it is important, but it's also, you know, I think here's a little behind the curtain for people. Every once in a while, I go on YouTube and I talk about an interview that Donald Trump did or a press conference, and I didn't actually watch the whole thing because I'm doing a lot of interviews, you know, and so it's important to have people that are, like, always watching all of this shit who have good judgment to, like, flag for me, the shit that I need to actually watch. And I think that's, like, that's how we're turning stuff around for people on the YouTube feed. Otherwise, like, you can't do this in real time. Mm.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah. A lot of what we do is those, like, prep docs for you or Sarah, whoever it might be, of just, like, grabbing all of the important clips so you don't have to watch all hour and a half.

[Tim Miller]

You're also watching some of the bro pods, it seems like. Now, is that just. Is that just, like, a bonus? Are you doing that on your own time? Or are you. Or is that now part of the mission?

[Jared Poland]

Brendan does a lot of the bro pod watching, because Brendan really enjoys it.

[Tim Miller]

When I say you, I'm doing you plural. You plural. I'm Using you, plural. Yeah, you.

[Cam Caskey]

What do you mean, you people?

[Tim Miller]

You people. You and Brenda.

[Jared Poland]

Part of it is. Is what we're looking for is people that are pushing back against Trump. And right now, a lot of the Bro pods, that's what they're doing. They're tired of him acting like Epstein isn't a big deal. They're tired of him attacking free speech, going after Kimmel. Like, they're tired of that stuff because, like, comedians care about their free speech, and they don't want a president that's out here bullshitting them. And a lot of them, I feel like, feel like they're being bullshitted, and they're expressing that on their shows. So watching the Bro pods is a great way for us to find those messages and amplify them to our audience.

[Tim Miller]

Do you think that they're really mad? This is the thing it's hard for me to sometimes grasp, you know, it is the one. There's no substitute without for watching things in their entire. In their entirety. Like, do you think that there are ways, like, the clips of that stuff is kind of misrepresenting, like, where they really are?

[Jared Poland]

I feel like maybe for some of them, but what we're grabbing, like, again, Brendan watches a lot of it, but we're pretty judicious, and we don't want to clip people out of context. It's just, like, not fair to do because you do it, and then you get in a bind of, like, oh, well, they said this five minutes before. I feel like, especially, like, the guys, like, the Andrew Schultz guys, the guys on that pod, and, like, Rogan, like, I think they're genuinely a little mad about the free speech stuff because, like, comedians really do care about their ability to say whatever they want on whatever platform they want. And Trump, like, acting like that's not the case, I feel like, is a.

[Tim Miller]

Huge red line for them as far as, like, your. Your. Your mental health. How are you, like, how do you, like, navigate having to spend so much time listening to Donald Trump, finding time.

[Jared Poland]

To do stuff that I enjoy whenever that time happens?

[Tim Miller]

I don't believe that. That. I don't believe that. What are you doing that you enjoy?

[Jared Poland]

I try to play golf on Saturday mornings when I do.

[Cam Caskey]

Oh, my God, dude.

[Jared Poland]

I. Well, it gets me exercise. I'm sitting at a desk all the.

[Tim Miller]

Time on this fucking podcast. Okay, you're golfing.

[Cam Caskey]

Okay. I'm an old zoomer in my, you know, media consumption and the fact that I don't be. I don't like being awake past 11pm but like golf, I golf.

[Jared Poland]

I play video games with my friends from back home.

[Tim Miller]

Golf. Does any more need to be said? Golf? Really?

[Jared Poland]

I spend time with my girlfriend, which is great. Love doing that.

[Cam Caskey]

I'm so happy for you, Jared. I'm so happy that you're happy.

[Tim Miller]

How did you attract a girlfriend? What was the. What was your.

[Jared Poland]

It's actually very funny.

[Tim Miller]

Please.

[Jared Poland]

So I was in college. It was the last month. We were at a. Or I was at a crawfish date party. I brought my friend, who is very much lesbian, to this date party because at the time I didn't have a girlfriend. And my now girlfriend showed up as a DD for a friend and introduced us because we were both quote libs. And so then we talked about politics for an hour or something.

[Tim Miller]

A lib love story and an ole Miss crawfish boil. God. You know, and people say there's no bright shining lights in this world.

[Cam Caskey]

Can I just say, like, I want your take on this because I think that, you know, you might. You might be able to shine some light on something for me. I have been exploring who I'm gonna marry because I just checked the timer that I set during our episode with my girl Tara Hoops, who. And I've since become like BFFs with. And Tara is a zoomer who got married, very young lady, very happily married, now got a new last name. And I. I've been really trying to figure out what to do because I've dated in my life. Tim. Don't say a single fucking name. I've dated a lot of actresses, and actresses have been such a good match for me because they're very socially progressive and they have an eye on what's going on, but they aren't like policy wonks. So when we are like, about to go to bed at night, I can count there being 90 minutes before sleep where politics doesn't come up. But I worked for a Hollywood producer for two years. A lot of my friends are actors, which is how I meet other actors. Like, a lot of my friends are industry people who are involved with theater and, you know, all these different things. So I know how to talk about their thing. But I'm not an actor. I'm not in the weeds of their thing. And they know how to talk about my thing, but they're not like, following Asin and at Rupar and everything. So we can talk to each other about each other's stuff, but it's not the only thing that happens. And I've been struggling with the idea of being in a relationship with somebody who's as locked into politics stuff as I am, because I just don't want to be in a situation where it's the majority of what my partner and I are not. Partner. Partner. Because it could be a man or a woman. I'm not saying. I'm not saying partner about a woman.

[Tim Miller]

Stop calling your girlfriend a partner. I will. Genderless partner, Jared. So are you guys talk. Are you guys doing ace and pillow talk like you and your girlfriend normally?

[Jared Poland]

Like, when I get home, I will, like, talk about the crazy. Like, yesterday, I came in and was just talking about how Trump was, like, calling for an investigation and wanting to arrest the guy that turned off the escalator. Like, normally I come in and talk about just the most absurd shit that's happening because I just need to vent about it. But typically after that, like, we're not really talking politics. We're talking family drama, talking about our cat, like, other stuff, watching shows that aren't politically related at all.

[Tim Miller]

I think that's such a nice story because we had a mailbag recently, and we've been denying you people the mailbag because you ask us boring questions. Okay, I don't want. I'm not going to answer your question about creeping authoritarianism. All right? We've had enough questions about creeping authoritarianism. If you have interesting questions about Gen Z's or your sex like that, that.

[Cam Caskey]

Confuses you about zoomers. Zoomers being weird and you trying to make sense of it. You know, I act like an old person sometimes, but I happen to have a very good insight on why zoomers are weird and. And different reasons for that. So ask us that stuff. And also ask us, like, toxic dating questions. Yeah, like, give us some fun. Tim and I are fun.

[Tim Miller]

Give me something else to talk about besides creeping authoritarianism. Anyway. Bulwark [e-mail] but back when we were doing that, when people asked good questions, one of them was from a young woman, a Gen Z woman, talking about how it's hard to find non maga boys or boys that are acceptable to date in red areas. And there you go. There's a Jared for all of you out there. There's a Jared for all of you. You just got to go to the crawfish boil, and you got to ask your friends, where's the lib? Find me the lib at this crawfish boil, and maybe you'll get a Jarrett.

[Jared Poland]

Maybe.

[Tim Miller]

Cam, that feels like good advice.

[Cam Caskey]

We get people commenting on the fy pod spin off channel that you all ought to subscribe to for me and my ex girlfriend Ellie and snacks, the Hip Hopper and Adam Mockler and Jack Cocchirella and many other great guests. But we get comments on that that are because we talk a lot about dating on the new channel. That's like, that's like older people being like, I wish my granddaughter had a guy like Jared. Like, I'm sure will get knocked. We'll get comments on this video saying like, oh, where's my nieces, Jared?

[Tim Miller]

Were there other Jared's at Ole Miss? Jared?

[Jared Poland]

Not a lot. A lot of like I remember, like I would sit in the backyard of the fraternity house because like I started to turn away from like the Republican Party well before, like Covid, but like I lived in the fraternity house my junior year and was like, would sit on the back porch after going out to the bar and just would talk about politics with people and they'd be like, yeah, I'm not a big fan of Trump, but like insert all of the stuff they like about what Republicanism is and about how much they hate the Dems. And I'm like, yeah, but like, he is like uniquely bad, like next level bad and turning away from all the stuff the Republican Party was about. So like the stuff that you're saying you like is like not what he's for. Like, he doesn't care about free markets at all.

[Cam Caskey]

I talked about this a lot because it's, you know, an interesting perspective on zoomer Republicans. I lived with a zoomer, like relatively hardcore Republican. He was not anti abortion. There were some issues where he was a little bit more of a dark horse person who could think for himself. But he fully identifies as like a deep red Republican and everything. But he fucking hates Trump and refused to vote for Trump. And he's a Georgia voter, so that really meant something. And. But he always remembers to remind me, don't mistake my hate for Donald Trump with any love for the Democrats.

[Tim Miller]

Whoever wrote this ad for me, I assume it's not cornbread hemp whose product A plus. We'll get to that in a second. But they wrote this. I'm not as young as I once was. Fuck you, scriptwriter. Who wrote this. I'm young, I'm youthful. I'm young at heart, I'm young at spirit. Wearing this teal T shirt anyway. But even though I'm an old fuck, I still care a lot about maintaining my physical and mental wellness. Cornbread hemp CBD gummies are a huge part of that wellness plan. Cornbread Hemp CBD gummies are made to help you feel better, whether it's stress, discomfort, or just needing a little relaxation. And nothing says relaxing like relaxing legally. You hear that, Tom Homan? Legally. No problems here. No bribes ticking here. Citizen of the United States, these gummies are federally legal. And they're just what I need to kick back when I'm sick of contemplating the state of the world. With cornbread hemp, they only use the best part of the hemp plant the flower for the purest and most potent cbd. And all products are third party lab tested and USDA organic to ensure safety and purity. You want that pure shit, you know you don't want the cut up CBD right now, FYpod listeners can save 30% off their first order. Just head to cornbreadhemp.com FYpod that's a great website name. And use code FYPOD at checkout. That's cornbreadhemp.com FYpod and use code FYpod at checkout. I have a question for you, Jared. I think you'd have an interesting perspective on this. What is it about the Dems that you think that you're the more sensible of your frat buddies? More sensible of your Ole Miss buddies? What's the big hold up? What are the things that annoy them the most? What's on the top of their annoyance list?

[Jared Poland]

I would say they're tired of the woke shit is how they would say it. Like they just are tired of like feeling like they have to like they not like though, feeling like they have to like censor themselves if they have like a hot take on something or like scared that they're gonna get canceled because they say retard or something like that.

[Tim Miller]

Do they want to do the N word, do you think?

[Jared Poland]

No, not anybody that I'm friends with. There are people like that, but I don't associate with them.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I would say I went. I had some friends at Ole Miss and back in year redacted when I was in college. There's some. The N word was still bouncing around quite a bit at Ole Miss.

[Jared Poland]

I would say it's definitely. I would say it's still. Still a problem at the University of Mississippi. But again, like I. That's like a very much a red line for me. Like if I'm around people that are throwing that around left and right like I'm a doc.

[Cam Caskey]

I think that word is just a symbol to a lot of people who want to say it or do say it while they're Rapping a song in a car or something. It's a symbol of. I am uninhibited by the restrictions of social messaging and everything. And I think more than they want to say it out of sheer racism, I think it's motivated by a form of racism. But I think what they're thinking in their head, consciously, maybe not subconsciously, is, like, this is me saying that people can't stop me on stuff. And that's, you know, that's just one of those things where you have to teach them that, like, some things are forbidden because they need to be, because it's, you know, you have to make sure you're fostering an environment where people who have received that word in a hateful way feel safe and comfortable. Whereas, you know, the R word is something we can talk about a little deeper. I think that's a different one. I think that files into a different category of unacceptable language where, like, you know, maybe it's occasionally slipped into the FY pod. Who knows? I can't speak to that. I plead the Fifth.

[Tim Miller]

I encourage use of all the words. Not no hard R, any. Jared, do you have anything.

[Jared Poland]

I was just going to say, it also is, like, a candidate problem. I feel like a lot of people I knew at Ole Miss that didn't like Trump, like, really didn't like Joe Biden because they felt that he was, like, lame and old, which, I mean, Trump is lame and old, but, like, he would say something funny every once in a while and they would, like, make him appear cool on social media to them, versus, like, it's really hard to, like, say Joe Biden was cool.

[Tim Miller]

But do you see any other Dems you think they might have liked better at the time?

[Jared Poland]

No. Now, like, there's some people with some potential, but.

[Tim Miller]

Who do you think has potential?

[Jared Poland]

I mean, I personally like Andy Beshear, but everybody here in the office hates that. Like, he doesn't have a lot of Riz, but I just like someone that is young, that is willing to try to appeal across the aisle to people that might have been a Trump voter. Like, I'm just tired of people that, like, constantly demonize, especially the voters for Trump. Like, I get it. They make really bad decisions. Yeah, JBL would hate that take. But it's like, I have a lot of friends and family who don't really pay much attention to politics outside of what they see for 15 minutes. And, like, you have to find ways to appeal to those people. And I feel like the Democratic party, especially in 2020 or not 2020, 20, 24 really struggled to reach those people. Like Kamala was giving the same exact speech for three months straight. And on social media you can only clip the same exact quote so many times before it gets old.

[Tim Miller]

Right?

[Jared Poland]

Which Trump gets up and says insane stuff but he wasn't giving a normal stump speech that you would hear, which I don't think necessarily works nowadays.

[Cam Caskey]

I would say to that I agree with the sentiment and everything, but it's important and we talk about this all the time, but it's because we have to. It's important to remember that it's not just about hating fence sitting Republicans who can do a lot of good work. It's also the fucking non voters. It's the non voters. It's such a big deal and I think Bashir could be great with them. I'm surprised people around the office like hate Bashir because like they don't hate him personally.

[Tim Miller]

They hate the idea of him as a presidential candidate.

[Jared Poland]

They don't think he has like he.

[Cam Caskey]

Has got a lot of riz, but he's got sincerity. Like you could tell he means what he says.

[Tim Miller]

You like Andy Beshear, Cam?

[Cam Caskey]

I wouldn't pick Andy Beshear, but if Andy Beshear was in the primary, I would definitely keep an eye on him because I like what he has to say and I think he speaks from the heart.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah, like he's not my horse but like I just think he's someone that's willing to be empathetic to people that deserve empathy but also is like trying to reach across the aisle and like a red state. And I think that we need someone that's willing to try to reach them instead of just like constantly demonize the voters over there.

[Tim Miller]

I agree with that. I also wish we had somebody could who could chop it up a little better.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah, would be nice. Would be nice.

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[Tim Miller]

I want to do. I have two more things I want to get to you before we get to Gen Z hour. I want to go back to the Ole Miss kids not liking the woke stuff because I want to do something that maybe I want both of you guys take on this. I want to do something that maybe challenges the audience a little bit on this because I think that it's easy to dismiss that complaint when it is I'm so annoyed I can't say pussy. And I, you know, the Black Little Mermaid is, is bad and the Bud Light can had a transgender person on it and that's bad. Like, there's just so much stupid anti woke shit out there that is like obviously stupid stupid. And like anybody that is actually aggrieved about this is a, and you should be able to dismiss them with prejudice. The part of it though that I, I, I wonder if there's like a little kernel of truth to is if you're a white dude that goes to Ole Miss and you're go to church or not, but you try to be a good person and you, whatever, I'm not. You're not the red hat MAGA person screaming racial source, but you're just like, I'm from a, I'm like a, just a regular median Ole Miss white dude. You have to hear a lot of times for the left, like, people use that as a pejorative, right? That's like, oh, like, well, you would have this opinion because you're a white dude. Like, there's a lot of stuff that people, can the people on the left say about white dudes that you would never say about other people. Like, obviously you think that because you're a Mexican. Like, you would never say that about anybody about a Mexican person for good reason. But like, it is okay to say that about white dudes. Like, obviously you have that backwards. It was with you because you're a white dude or like, I don't know, you maybe need to get this job. We already have five white dudes and so, like, we can't consider you. Like, again, I'm for diversity and representation, but like, I can understand how that chaps their ass a little bit. And I wonder if there's any of that, that that resonates with you or if you think that I'm coddling the young white men.

[Jared Poland]

I don't think that, like, they, they need a lot of coddling. Like, in a lot of ways it's like for the most part, like, things are fair to them more than a lot of other people and they, I think, get unreasonably mad. But also, like, there is a certain point where like, if someone's just like yelling at you because you're just a white dude, like, that's not necessarily right. Like, you, like, wouldn't do it the other way, and it'd be acceptable. But I. I do think that they have that frustration with the left. I just don't think that it's, like, a reasonable frustration, because I think it's right to, like, question some of the issues that white dudes have caused, especially throughout history. Like, white dudes have done some really bad stuff.

[Tim Miller]

Woke Jared is out.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah, he's out.

[Tim Miller]

But, like, woke Jared. We're taking down a tr. Jared is in the middle of the night going dox. Where he's gonna take down the statues.

[Jared Poland]

I don't know. It's just, like, going to school at Ole Miss. A school that, like, integrated in the 1960s.

[Tim Miller]

Crazy.

[Jared Poland]

There was a violent riot, and people died because they were so mad about it. Like, James Meredith walked that campus bravely, and James Meredith has a statue there. And there's, like, recently as. Like, 20 years ago, there was a fraternity that put a noose on it, got kicked off campus. Like, there's a lot of that shit that still happens at Ole Miss. So, like, there is a little bit of. I feel like, reason to be mad at the white dudes at Ole Miss sometimes. But, like, when, like, we moved the Confederate statue, I was on campus when that happened. There were a lot of people that are super mad about it. It was in the front and center of campus, right in front of the lyceum. Like, that's a very unwelcoming thing to have right in front of your school. Like, when you pull into the university, the first thing you saw before you even saw the lyceum was the Confederate statue. They moved into the Confederate cemetery. There was a bunch of protest. I remember some group showed up with guns to protest it. They, like, canceled class for the day. And I think, like, it's reasonable to be mad that there's people that are, like, trying to keep that there. Yeah, it's just.

[Tim Miller]

Where are you at? On Colonel Reb to move on Keeping colonel rebuild.

[Jared Poland]

I, like, honestly, like, having a Confederate colonel as the mascot of the school is not great. I get that. Like, that's not a good thing. I'm fine with the stay in the rebels, though. The land shark was stupid. I voted for it because the other options were also stupid.

[Tim Miller]

But, like, Cam, what do you think? Do the white. Do the young white men have any legit complaints with the wokes?

[Cam Caskey]

No, I think that that doesn't mean it isn't important to address how young white men feel right now and meet with and talk to young white men about what's going on. But I kind of, I just don't want to baby people. Like, I don't. It's the same thing I felt when I was talking to Jewish people around New York City who were scared for their safety because of Zoran, who was the candidate that pledged the most money to fight anti Semitism of anybody in the race. I was just like, I, I put out a post that went pretty viral, like, explaining calmly why all is well, we are good. We are not going to be in trouble. If you look at how things have gone, this is going to be something that is positive and our community is strong and going to be accommodated for. But. And I just realized at one point, I ended up taking it down because I was like, I don't want to baby people. Like, I, I don't want to talk down to people and tell them like, oh, you're fine. In a place where, generally speaking, in terms of most measures, this is an extremely safe city to be in for everybody. And I, when it comes to, like, white dudes having a bit of white fragility, which is a term that I try to avoid when I'm speaking to them because obviously it seems condescending in its own right. I just don't like to act like things are worse for us than it is than they are for other people. Like, just because we're getting a lot of shit due to the nature of the culture and the way we're talking about stuff, we're still the easiest type of person to be in the world. Being a white man in America, like, no matter how many DEI's there are, no matter how many protesters there are screaming about how white men suck. Like, the, the institutions are still on our side. And that's something that I think is very important to recognize. So listen, I talked to white dudes about how we are getting left behind and we are getting screwed over. But our enemy is not fucking DEI and woke. Our enemy is billionaires trying to cut all the jobs and replace them with robots and create a situation where everybody's using Klarna to pay for their Ubereats because all the local restaurants got closed and the, the electricity bills are going up $100 a month because somebody just built a giant data center. Like, white, young, white dude. I said this msnbc at fucking 00am the other day. Young white dudes are getting screwed over right now, but they are getting screwed over so much more by the oligarch class of Peter Thiel and Donald Trump and their crypto fraud friends than they are by an Asian person getting a job.

[Tim Miller]

You've already gotten enough Yasqueen snaps for all this. Okay, people got it. People get the. How about let me try another one on you then? What if. Okay, if in the merits it's not a fair critique, but what if still, maybe the strategy should just be different from a political standpoint? I want to read you this tweet from Milan Singh. He writes this here's one reason straight men are shifting, right? Democratic Comm staffers are all women are gays. And that's pretty apparent.

[Cam Caskey]

Do you remember what James Carville said at that conference? Like, the Democratic Party has got too many preachy females.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Well, here is their this is. I think that's an interesting point that we should at least sit with. Guess how many people running the Kamala HQ account were straight men? 1 out of 14. This is how you end up with Chuck Schumer, age 74, tweeting stuff that sounds like girl. It's not clocking to you that Senate Democrats are low key standing on business. Is there something to the fact that there's no white dudes that like work for the Democrats and so they don't know how to talk to them anymore?

[Cam Caskey]

I think that a lot of Internet language is derived from aave. I don't know what it stands for, like African American Vernacular English. I think that a lot of the trends online come from black Twitter and that ends up where being where language like clocked and things like that comes from. So I don't know if that's as much because there aren't white dudes doing social media strategy as much as it's a lot of the trends and language in social media do come from communities of color and the way that they shape the culture on something like Twitter. But again, I do think that you need to have representation for the groups of people you need to reach. And that means making sure white guys are talking to other white guys about this because I don't think it's impossible. There's this thing that annoys me so much where there's a lot of people dooming about white dudes not being able to return to becoming blue voters. And this is something that you've talked about already on Bulwark. I think you did a video with some of the other people about it, like guys like Theo Vaughn and Joe Rogan and everything like that. We need to open the tent for them because those guys can speak to young men and those guys are not partizans. They got sold on Trump because they are not ideologically consistent or sound people. And Trump was very appealing to folks like that. But at the end of the day, like, they are not unwinnable. You just have to pick the right battles. Things like the First Amendment, things like immigration, like young white dudes are reachable and you can win them back. The worst thing you can do is do something that Democrats do in a lot of states, especially Florida, and just act like it's a lost cause and there's no coming back and we're never going to get people again. Because acting like a group of voters can never be engaged again is the best way to assure that they will never be engaged again.

[Jared Poland]

I would just say I don't think it's a problem of who's staffing these offices. I think it's a problem of who they're trying to reach. Like, I think what James Talarika is doing, like going on Rogan is great. Like, you have to go meet them where they are. Like, go and like Stavros's podcast and just chop it up with a comedian. They go talk to the people that are having these young dudes watch their shows. Like, if you're going on the View, like you're reaching like 60 year old wine moms, but you're not, you're not reaching the young dudes. Like, the way you reach the young dudes is you got to go where they're where they are. And this idea that like the Dempsey to make their Joe Rogan, like, I don't think that's necessarily the case. They just need to go where these people already are and have a good case for why what they're running on, what their policy ideas are, are better than the alternative. And I think going into their zone is the way to do it.

[Tim Miller]

I just, I'm going to disagree here one more time. I think the staffing matters a little bit. I don't know, there's this Bill Simmons line. Cameron, you're just going to have to get this from context clues because it's about football, video games. But he was like, every NFL team needs to hire one like 17 year old who plays Madden all day long to just stand next to the coach on the sidelines and every once in a while say this is stupid because they just do stupid things. They need somebody to like just check their, check their judgment. And I think that it probably wouldn't hurt to have one Ole Miss frat bro on every Democratic presidential campaign. Just like look at the tweet before it sent and Is like, is this going to sound cringe as fuck? Yes or no. And like, that's their only job. It's just like, can we just make sure that we don't sound like, you know, completely alien life forces from Brooklyn and sound maybe more like the average person in America sounds?

[Jared Poland]

I mean, I agree with that. Yeah.

[Cam Caskey]

I also think that playing into certain memes is worse than it is better. And you see a lot of Democrats trying to do this, like, trying to get in on the popular meme right now when Kamala is brat was happening and everything. I think that it's kind of like the teacher getting in on the joke in class. If the Democrats let all the other people do it and didn't try. Dark Brandon. Dark Brandon. The memes of Joe Biden with the red glowing eyes or the sunglasses being like some rogue dark horse figure. It was kind of funny because people on the left like me, who are to the left of Joe Biden on many policies, loved it because Dark Brandon was a way to highlight the stuff Biden was doing that everybody left of center could get behind, which there were plenty of things. You know, I'm a Biden hater, and I think that Biden's legacy is one that is going to kind of forever be in humiliation. But I'm also not the type of person who is insane enough to say that there were not a ton of great things done under that administration. And I think that the Dark Brandon meme really highlighted that for a lot of young voters. But then Biden got in on it and it wasn't cool anymore.

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[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah. I think, like, that would, like, Dark Brandon would have worked if, like, he didn't have Dark Brandon's, like, special sauce before the debate and then went up there and, like, shat the bed in front of all of America. Like, those kind of memes are good, but you have to have someone to back up the meme.

[Cam Caskey]

And that's one more thing I'll say is, like, Tim, you kind of talked about this on one of the first episodes that we ever did, and it was a point that I hadn't really completely thought of. It was, you know, it was something that I understood to be true, but you just put it in a way that really made it make sense to me, which is, like, it's not just about going on these platforms and meeting people where they're at. It's also about saying the right stuff when you're there. Like, I don't know how successful Kamala Harris on Joe Rogan would have been, because Kamala Harris on Rachel Maddow this week was getting asked questions and was fumbling them. Like, she had gotten tossed a hot potato with hands covered in mercury. So, like, when. When Rachel Maddows.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, man, you got to be able to chop it up.

[Cam Caskey]

When Rachel Maddow was like, so you didn't pick Pete Buttigieg because he's gay? And Kamala was like, no, of course not. I just didn't pick people to judge because he was gay. Like, so I think that somebody like James Talarico is perfect for Joe Rogan. Bernie does great on Joe Rogan. Rogan's audience likes Bernie more than you would ever think they do. Rogan likes Bernie. You know, there. There are people who can go to these places, but it's not just about where they're saying it. It's also about what they. They're saying. So talking to an audience and how.

[Tim Miller]

They'Re saying it, like, it's not even like, I'm like, oh, you got a pander to them. You just got to be able to sound normal. Like, you can't sound like you're in a fucking liberal bubble. Use liberal bubble words. And you can't sound like you're just a boring ass politician doing boring ass talking points. It's harder than it sounds. We're running out of time. Jared, really quick, rapid fire. For people who do not suffer the life you do where you watch all this stuff, is there something that you, like, observe about Donald Trump, the administration that's happening, that you think people might not notice the of kind because you're seeing this all the time.

[Jared Poland]

I think, like, the level at which the people around him have to, like, constantly coddle him on tv. Like, I think the escalator thing is, like, a perfect example. I feel like a lot of people miss this, but, like, Caroline Lovett, after Trump, like, complained about this escalator to her, like, went on Fox News right after him, was like, they need to look into this guy. And it's definitely because Trump was, like, losing his shit behind the scenes about This, I mean, you saw it in the True Social Post. I feel like people really miss the level at which these people are constantly going on Fox News after Trump gets mad about something to do the complaining on his behalf, to sue them, because.

[Tim Miller]

He'S been watching it. That's interesting. Yeah. The escalator person and the sandwich man might be the heroes we need. Okay, Cam, we had two Gen Z topics. You want to do yours first or mine?

[Cam Caskey]

We'll do mine first. I pulled a secret video that I want us to watch about how hard and impossible and ridiculous it is to talk to some zoomers and figure out how to make conversation. Let's take a look.

[Jared Poland]

Your top is so cute.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, thanks.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah. Do you remember where you got it from?

[Cam Caskey]

I don't know.

[Jared Poland]

It's not.

[Tim Miller]

It's not mine.

[Cam Caskey]

So where are you from? I don't know. Like, are you from around here? Are you from, like, another state or.

[Jared Poland]

No.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. So what do you do for work? Stuff.

[Jared Poland]

Like, what kind of stuff? Like, what field do you work in stuff.

[Tim Miller]

Why?

[Jared Poland]

What kind of music do you like to listen to?

[Tim Miller]

Like, music like, I listen to music. The thanks thing is real. The thanks thing is real. Gen Zs do do that when, like, you. You try to engage them in a normal conversation or give them a compliment and it's like a long pause with thanks.

[Cam Caskey]

No, that's my sister like that. I love my sister, bless her heart. She's such a cutie patootie and I feel a special connection to her. But like, that I have to like mine for topics and answers from her. Like a fucking diamond picks at Pickaxe in Minecraft. Which Jared will understand. You won't.

[Jared Poland]

I get it.

[Tim Miller]

Jared, do you feel this way? Is it hard to communicate with the younger Gen Z's in particular?

[Jared Poland]

I don't really think so, but I don't interact with them a ton. But, like, I played golf with, like, some, like, younger Gen Z weeks ago. And like, this is the issue is.

[Tim Miller]

Like, There are only 14 zoomers that golf. They are not representative of the community.

[Jared Poland]

But, like, I don't know that. Yeah, Gen Z, if, like, you don't have anything in common. Like, I think part of it is, like, during COVID like, people weren't going out. They weren't just, like, meeting people at the bar. But even like, before COVID I feel like Gen Z had that problem because, like, I'm an elder Gen Z and small talk's like, a real problem struggle.

[Tim Miller]

This is a big part of my parenting with Toulouse. It's Just if I don't know what she's going to do or succeed on. But I will make sure she can communicate like a human at a party. I think it's an important life skill that, that. That your parents stopped teaching you guys. I mean, you guys are great, your peers. I want to make fun of the Atlantic. Is that okay? Can we make fun of the Atlantic? I was excited to click on this article because I love reading about sex trend pieces in Maureen Powell, Jobs magazine. The Atlantic, just a refined periodical, and their headline is this. Whatever happened to getting to first base? Gen Z has abandoned the old dating script. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. It's like, wonder what is happening? Are they not. Are they skipping first base? What's going on? The premise of the piece, I guess, is that Gen Z does a lot of different types of sex stuff. And like, they have a lot of different mores around sex. What?

[Cam Caskey]

Nothing.

[Tim Miller]

And it's not whatever you said. It's going to be embarrassing in post. Whatever you said. They're not doing the old school thing of where you go to first base first and then you make it to second base. You know, you kiss and then you do the booby fondle and then you make it. Eventually you have sex. They're not doing that anymore. I want to read this paragraph to you in my reporting, including in conversations with about a dozen zoomers across the country. So this person is basing this article on not 12 conversations, because you would have said a dozen if it was 12. So she spoke to less than 12 Zoomers about their sex life. Here's what she learned. I learned about terms like sneaky links, people you hook up with in secret zombies, people who come back after ghosting you and simps, guys like Cam who try too hard to get a partner. Zoomers spoke of the dangers of catching feelings and the imperative to keep liaisons chill at all costs. Or nonchalant, as they put it. What in the fuck is this? Why are they writing about this? Like, zoomers are like a new tribe deep in the Amazon. Like, all this is normal stuff. Like, oh, zoomers sometimes want to have chill hookups. Is this the first generation that did this? They have slang. Like, this is the weirdest article. So anyway, are you. Do you not. Did you skip first base? I want to get what your reaction is now that I want to do reporting like the Atlantic. What do you think?

[Cam Caskey]

Which one is first?

[Tim Miller]

I think kissing. Tongue.

[Cam Caskey]

No, I. I normally do. I think kiss is normally the first step after serenading. Yeah, still and then second base is hand stuff and third base is mouth stuff.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah.

[Cam Caskey]

I think that, you know, hand stuff is sort of something that maybe I don't. I don't think you need to, like, fully do hand stuff before going to third base. I think you can just kind of do like, a pilot preview of hand stuff.

[Tim Miller]

Second base. This is what the Atlantic was wrong about. What happened to second base? Second base is.

[Cam Caskey]

Well, are people, like. I think it's a little odd to suggest that people are going to hand stuff before kissing. Kissing seems like hand stuff is second.

[Tim Miller]

Kissing is first, Hand stuff is second. Mouth stuff is third.

[Cam Caskey]

It just. I would feel really, really uncomfortable doing second or third without having done step one.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah, exactly.

[Cam Caskey]

Feels entirely like step. Step one is where you figure is like, where you actually figure out what the sexual chemistry is going to be like. No matter. No matter how good the chemistry is in the flirting, the kissing is where you're like, okay, are we actually going to know what we're doing here?

[Jared Poland]

Unless they're, like, talking about, like, you go, 1, 2, 3, 4. Like, you do a whole whole loop at once, and that's not what they think is normal. But, like, yeah, like, that's the normal order. You would go, yeah, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

So the order still stands.

[Jared Poland]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

That's interesting. That's going to. Sad news for the Atlantic is the whole premise of the pieces. But I don't.

[Cam Caskey]

I don't know, like, you know.

[Tim Miller]

But both of you do have done first base first, you know. You haven't, like, gone straight to BDSM or something? No, gone.

[Cam Caskey]

Multiple. I normally do it, like, at least two or three times before proceeding to other bases.

[Tim Miller]

How about this? She has some new words she learned, also. Breadcrumbing. Have you heard of that?

[Cam Caskey]

No, I don't know.

[Jared Poland]

That one sounds like you're leading someone along.

[Tim Miller]

It means offering little bits of attention to keep someone interested. That's just flirting. That's just flirting and cushioning flirtations to keep you on the side. That's just flirting. Why are we acting like we're learning about a new AI?

[Cam Caskey]

I know what sneaky link is. I learned that term from a rapper named YVS Village, who's a really sweet guy. But these just seem like extraneous words for things that have been around all along. I don't really understand what they're achieving with this.

[Tim Miller]

Who you hook up with in secret. Yeah.

[Cam Caskey]

A sneaky link to me, like, what I would call that is just like, either a friend with benefits or a hookup.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, well, the Atlantic. It's a very long article, so person put a lot of work into this.

[Cam Caskey]

Can you text it to me?

[Tim Miller]

We honor everybody's effort on this podcast, but I think that we can just try to be a little more chill and everybody.

[Cam Caskey]

What's the email again, Tim? We need more good bulwark. Podcasthebork.com we need more good boomer mailbags and guys. We want gossip and tea and toxic shit. Jared, do you have any tea about.

[Tim Miller]

Me you want to leave people with? Like, about my. My. My behavior on Slack or, you know, anything alarmed you, anything you want to tell people?

[Jared Poland]

Nothing really alarming. I mean, it might be alarming after Ole Miss Beat sells you this weekend.

[Tim Miller]

But you're gonna be fucking tiger bait this weekend, Jared. That's the. That's the FYI pod. Thank you to Jared Poland. Thank you to Cam Caskey. Go Tigers.

[Cam Caskey]

I can do one more. Tim. Te. Tim realized very quickly where I don't like to be poked, which is generally like the higher end of my torso, and decided that that was his chance to poke me at the higher end of my torso to the point where.

[Tim Miller]

I go, I really like poking, Cam.

[Cam Caskey]

Really fun to do around. Remember poking from Facebook? Anyway, everybody, with FYpod, we are Jared the Bulwark and Cam. We will be seeing you all soon.

[Tim Miller]

Upper torso.

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