Liberals Are LOSING the Clip War, How Can We Fight Back? (w/ Adam Mockler)

Summary

FYPod (The Bulwark) – “Liberals Are LOSING the Clip War, How Can We Fight Back?” (w/ Adam Mockler) Episode Date: October 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the state of online political debates among Gen Z, with a focus on how conservatives are dominating the short-form “clip” ecosystem across platforms like TikTok and YouTube. Host Tim Miller and co-host Cameron Kasky bring on guest Adam Mockler—a viral Gen Z debate creator—to dissect why the right is so effective in winning the attention economy, what’s at stake for liberals, and how the left can better compete within these new media realities. The conversation is rich with war stories from internet debates, inside-baseball about prepping for TV appearances, and sharp commentary on the theatricality that permeates political discourse online.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction of Adam Mockler and Show’s Purpose (01:38–08:39)

• Guest Intro: Adam Mockler, described as “maybe the Zoomer at this point,” is a college dropout turned YouTube and TV debate lord, known for his viral right-vs-left sparring.
• Content Creation Path: Adam’s trajectory from Minecraft videos (3:25) to becoming a political content creator began young, aided by video editing skills and early interest in debate.
  • “I remember in elementary school, I got kicked out for, like, debating my teacher about gay marriage. I was probably being a little jackass.” (03:35, Adam)
• Breakout Moment: His first viral hit came after attending a Trump rally, leveraging his disarming “baby face” and sharp debate chops (04:30–08:39).

2. Why Engage in the Debate Arena? (09:46–14:50)

• Purpose of Debating on Right-Leaning Platforms: Both Adam and Tim argue it's critical for liberals to show up on platforms dominated by conservatives—otherwise, bad arguments or “weak” debaters fill the void.
  • “I think it’s really important for us to be in these spaces because…we have to be in these spaces and make sure you dominate the narrative.” (12:41, Adam)
• “Soy Spectrum” and Perceptions: There’s a recurring riff on how right-wing viewers see liberals as “soy”—i.e., weak or effeminate—and why breaking that stereotype by showing confidence and authenticity matters for the left’s image.
  • “When they see like Tim and I on there, they're like, oh, these guys aren’t as soy.” (13:13, Adam)

3. The Clip War: Conservatives’ Dominance & the Pipeline to Volume (15:51–23:44)

• Entertainment and Team Sports: Tim pushes on the point that many viewers treat these debates as “team sports,” where the win/loss optics matter more than truth.
  • “It’s all about clips…The dominant stuff [online] is conservatives positioning themselves as winning.” (16:53, Tim)
• Right-Wing Pipeline Effectiveness: Adam describes the “pipeline to volume”—an intricate conservative media ecosystem, especially effective at targeting young men with interests like fitness or dating and funnelling them into right-wing content.
  • “There are thousands, maybe even like 10,000 Charlie Kirk debate clips just surface…The point is they have so much volume that we need to be countering that with our own volume.” (22:14–23:21, Adam)
• Liberals Losing the “Clip Economy”: Liberals are outnumbered in viral, appealing short-form debate content, which is a huge disadvantage for influencing political perceptions among young voters.

4. Anatomy of Debates: Strategies, Prep, and Technology (23:44–31:14)

• Clip Analysis: Multiple viral debate clips are played and analyzed—Adam holding ground against right-wing narratives, media tactics like derailing with style critiques (“Wipe that little thing off your face”), and Tim’s own experiences being attacked for appearance on TV (10:05–12:09).
• Debate Prep: Adam and Tim both describe how much preparation goes into these debates—receiving topics hours ahead of time, relying on policy advisors, and prepping snappy lines to use under pressure.
  • “I have a few fallback lines…I’m getting a lot better at not being nervous. Once you can trust yourself to deliver, does that make sense?” (29:49–30:49, Adam)
• Dealing with Conspiracy Theorists and the “Whack-a-Mole” Effect: Discusses the challenge of responding to a barrage of increasingly absurd talking points in real time (24:18–24:58, Cam & Adam).

5. The Role of Performance and Theatrics in Political Debate (40:25–44:41)

• Acting Background of Right-Wing Creators: The hosts riff on how many of the prominent right-wing media personalities are frustrated or failed actors/theater kids, fueling their flair for drama on political stage.
  • “The acting/theater to politics pipeline is so remarkable…Daily Wire started doing these very, very expensive productions.” (42:18–43:41, Cam)
• Satire and Critique: Discussion of theatrical right-wing content like Daily Wire’s “Lady Ballers,” highlighting the hollowness and performativity of much “debate” content.

6. The Need for Liberals to ‘Clip Farm’ and Enter New Spaces (46:05–49:12)

• Expanding Beyond “Blue-Haired” Liberal Spaces: Tim urges Adam to take his talents into male-dominated, toxic bro spaces (crypto, MMA, finance), since that’s where vulnerable young men are being scooped up by right-wing content.
  • “I need you in either like the crypto space…Wall street memes…your highest and best purpose.” (46:05–47:00, Tim)
• Nick Fuentes as a Growing Threat: Adam warns about the rise of far-right voices like Nick Fuentes, who are skilled at cloaking bigotry in intuitive, meme-ready arguments, and outlines his intent to confront these narratives head-on in future work.
  • "Nick Fuentes is about to be the biggest political commentator for young people over the next two to three years…He wraps it all in this [vibe of] intuitive, but never says the prescription.” (48:00–48:37, Adam)

7. The Low Bar for Right-Wing Gen Z Commentators (53:53–54:10)

• Commentary Skill Gaps: Cam and Adam lament how easy it is, with “six talking points,” for an untalented or unoriginal young right-winger to rise to influence, especially compared to how much harder left-leaning creators must work for visibility and credibility.
  • “To be a conservative commentator, especially as a zoomer, if you just say the same six things enthusiastically enough, boom, they’re gonna industry plant you, and you don’t have to fight for shit.” (53:53, Cam)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Soy” Perception:

  • “When they see like Tim and I on there, they're like, oh, these guys aren’t as soy.”
    — Adam Mockler (13:13)
  • “I should take off my pearls sometimes when I go on, that does give me a little bit of a soy vibe.”
    — Tim Miller (13:21)

• On the Debate Clip Economy:

  • “The only way to break into that world of like the casual is to do a funny thing like beat the fuck out of Dean Cain about ICE and the hopes that that like clip is now…[on a] For You Page.”
    — Tim Miller (17:26)
  • “We were seeding so much ground in the clip economy. We still are because the right wing ecosystem…have all of these online pipelines that suck young men and women down…”
    — Adam Mockler (22:14)

• On Performance and Media:

  • “When I was debating Michael Knowles…all these people are playing acts and we’re basically ourselves when we do these debates.”
    — Adam Mockler (40:52)
  • “The acting/theater to politics pipeline is so remarkable…Daily Wire started doing these very, very expensive productions…”
    — Cameron Kasky (42:18)

• On Preparation and Nervousness:

  • “Once you can trust yourself to deliver…Even if I up a bit, I can pull it back together and I trust myself to deliver.”
    — Adam Mockler (30:49)

• On the Low Bar for Conservative Influencers:

  • “To be a conservative commentator, especially as a zoomer, if you just say the same six things enthusiastically enough, boom, they’re gonna lift you up, they’re gonna industry plant you, and you don’t have to fight for shit.”
    — Cam Kasky (53:53)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:38 – Adam Mockler’s intro and recap of his media trajectory
• 03:25–04:30 – From Minecraft videos to viral political debates
• 10:05–12:09 – Play-by-play analysis of a TV debate with right-wing panelists
• 12:41 – Adam on why liberals need to “dominate the narrative” in right-leaning spaces
• 16:53 – Tim explains the “clip economy” and what dominates the Gen Z political feed
• 22:14 – Adam describes the “pipeline to volume” effect on the right
• 29:49–30:49 – Adam on debate prep and managing nerves
• 42:18–43:41 – Cam details the theater-to-politics pipeline, especially within the Daily Wire
• 48:00–48:37 – Adam warns about Nick Fuentes’ rise and influence among young men
• 53:53 – Cam blasts the low bar for right-wing Gen Z voices

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Thematic Takeaways

• Liberals are losing the attention war on TikTok, YouTube, and elsewhere to an organized, meme-centric, and relentlessly prolific right-wing media pipeline.
• Debate clips are the new battleground. Success relies less on argument substance and more on producing viral, attractive moments and dominating perception among casual or apolitical audiences.
• Personality, humor, and authenticity are key. Outright confrontation of conservative personalities is necessary, but it must be done in a palatable and clip-friendly fashion to avoid reinforcing negative stereotypes about liberals.
• Right-wing figures thrive on theater, often channeling performance skills gained from failed entertainment careers. The left must be aware of—and skillful at—this new theatrical form of political engagement if it hopes to compete.

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Conclusion

This episode is a lively, self-aware deep dive into how Gen Z consumes and constructs political reality through short-form video debates, why the right is dominating in this area, and concrete reflections on what the pro-democracy movement needs to do differently going into 2025 and beyond. The episode balances humor, strategic insight, and meta-commentary, making it an essential listen for anyone interested in where political discourse—and influence—are heading in the TikTok era.

Transcript

[Adam Mockler]

I'd say on the soy spectrum, when they see, like, Tim and I on there, they're like, oh, these guys aren't as soy.

[Tim Miller]

They're like, well, speak for yourself.

[Cam Kasky]

Hey, everyone, I'm Cam Kasky.

[Tim Miller]

And I'm Tim Miller. And this is FYpod. We talk about Gen Z stuff and such. And I have a few announcements before we get to our guest. For starters, we're taping this unusually early. It's on Tuesday afternoon. It's my fault. I can't keep track of my schedule. I'm taking applications for volunteer schedulers. Okay. I will not. I will only pay you in. In, like, the material we get from our advertising sponsors. You know, I'll share that with you. So it's not really good pay, but whatever. We're taping this on Tuesday as such. Like, who the knows? And by the time this actually airs, Donald Trump might be in a military costume or something. We might be in a hunta. So, you know, if something crazy happens on Thursday, that's why this happened. I also need to say I received a message from one of my lady friends. I have a couple lady friends, and they said that me and Cam's discussion on Monday's show about virginity was very man focused. We were very focused on the needs of men. Men, Men's sexual desires and needs. And I gotta say, that's totally my fault because Cam is very in touch with everybody's needs. But I drove the conversation in a male direction. And so I'm gonna ask Cameron to introduce me to a woman, and we can discuss women's sexual needs and the context of virginity at a later episode. So I just want to. Just want to throw myself on the mercy of the court and admit that this is a woke show. And sometimes even in a woke show, I can be patriarchal. And we're doing our best. We're trying to live and learn.

[Cam Kasky]

Speaking of woke patriarchal virgins, I want to introduce you all to our guest today, my friend, Adam Mockler. Adam Mockler is maybe the Zoomer at this point. I don't know if they make him any tougher than this guy. Adam does YouTube. He does the television. And he loves with his true human heart the whole.

[Tim Miller]

He's a debate lord like you. He does not have a college degree, which is really important because it's important for the people in the pro democracy movement to appeal to folks that are not good at standardized testing. We're doing really well. Like, we're kind of playing above our pay grade with people that. That do well, on standardized tests, not doing that great with like, your. Your C student or your student that is entrepreneurial, like Adam Mochler, and decided that. That he didn't want to be chained by the confines of Ball State University or wherever it was that he went, and he needed to spread his wings and fly. And I. And I appreciate that.

[Adam Mockler]

Thank you. Thank you guys for introing me right after the really serious virginity talk and then talking about how I appeal to college dropouts because I am one. Thanks for the beautiful.

[Tim Miller]

You're welcome. That's good. That's called credibility. That's called, like setting the credibility for the guest, for the audience.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah.

[Cam Kasky]

So, Adam, before we get into all of the bells and whistles and the real meat of the discussion today and before a big announcement that I have about a new bulwark event coming up, why don't you tell us a little bit about you? You know, some people watching this might have seen you on CNN debating with 60 year olds who are tripping over themselves. They might see you on the Miatas Touch network hanging out with the. The fellows over there whose names I'm aware of. But what got you into the ideological sparring match? The lion's den of ideas?

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, my quick elevator pitch. I run a YouTube channel with like a million and a half followers. I made this.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, all right, all right, okay. We don't need to be taking out our follower cock at the beginning of the episode.

[Adam Mockler]

No, but listen, listen, it comes back. I made this exact channel when I was like 9 years old, and I used to make all these dumb ass Minecraft videos. I used to edit all these videos, but I got really good at editing in the process. I remember in elementary school, I got kicked out for, like, debating my teacher about gay marriage. I was probably being a little jackass. And then after high school, after I stopped doing the Minecraft videos because I wanted to get girls or do whatever, I realized, wait a minute, I can combine my video editing skills. I can combine my, like, speaking skills, politics skills. And I started hitting these Trump rallies. The first video on my channel that's public is me hitting a Trump rally and debating all the supporters. And I think there's this vibe where my baby face kind of disarms them immediately. And they don't expect me to kind of like, like debunk what they're saying in the moment. Since then, I've signed the Midas. They've helped me really build the infrastructure under me. And then I've used that as a launching pad to do these More high profile debates, which. The same baby face disarm thing.

[Tim Miller]

I think a couple of follow ups there. So your first private video was you debating Trumpers, which is a great way to start. Like you just jumped in. Or your first public video. Your first public video is you debating Trumpers, which is a great way to start to get into your debate lord career. The private videos, though, like, what are the. One of the. Give us a couple of the, like, more embarrassing ones that are. That are behind the lock and key, dude.

[Adam Mockler]

The first one is me playing Minecraft. There's one. I hit 200 subscribers. So I did a special video where I was in like a bath answering questions.

[Tim Miller]

I was in the bathtub.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, I had like a swimsuit on. It was like a joke. But yeah, this is still private. On my.

[Tim Miller]

Did you have like rubber duckies around you or their bubbles? Was it a bubble bath?

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, it was pretty. No, there were no rubber duckies. It wasn't that infantile. I was still like 12 years old, but I was answering questions and man, Scott Jennings is going to. These MAGA people are going to love this. Love hearing that.

[Tim Miller]

I'm just. That used to be a bathtub baby. Okay. And another thing that you noted is that you were trying to get girls. I noticed you specifically said the word girls, which means that you might be the Rare pro democracy, 23 year old, purely heterosexual male. Is that. Is that right? Or do you. Are you somewhere in the LGBTQIA +2s community?

[Adam Mockler]

I am purely heterosexual.

[Tim Miller]

Wow. Holy shit. It's like a fucking albino. Albino giraffe.

[Adam Mockler]

Am I an ally? Cam, you weren't listening to the story. I got kicked out of class because I was debating my teacher about gay marriage.

[Cam Kasky]

You didn't say what side you were debating on. You just said you were debating gay marriage.

[Adam Mockler]

My teacher was too pro gay, and I was. I got kicked out of class for slurs.

[Tim Miller]

Apparently you're like, why can I not say the f slur? Okay, Is this a free country? Can I not say the f slur in the one. In my first year freshman year sociology.

[Adam Mockler]

Class that laid the groundwork for where I am.

[Cam Kasky]

I used to debate my fifth grade teacher about foreign policy and shit, and I didn't really know what I was talking about. But since, you know, becoming an adult, I sort of looked back and said, you know what? I was probably right a little bit more than I thought I was. And his son ended up becoming an NFL player. So you really got to hand it to him. I think he does steroids now. So, Mark, you went from Minecraft to bubble bath videos when you were a 12 year old boy to debating Scott Jennings. I feel like there still is a bridge that we need to establish here before we get to the meat of it all. Because something must have happened in between Minecraft bubble bath, Trump rallies and Abby Phillips.

[Adam Mockler]

I don't know. I made music in high school. I got my heart broken. I grew up.

[Cam Kasky]

I don't know, like I'm saying, were you in like a shadowy bar and like a mysterious figure just emerged behind you and it was like one of the Miatas brothers and then another one came up and they all recruited you. Brian.

[Adam Mockler]

Oh no. You want the raw story on how I blew up? Okay, so I, again, I had all these skills and editing and everything. So when I started to go to college in northwest Indiana, I took this film class. In this film class, I used it as sort of a launching pad to test out my first political video. So I made sure we made this like skit where it was a Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas knockoff. And I was like, we had two bags of grass. We had Rick and Morty. Bladder acid plus a clip. I told the librarian everything.

[Cam Kasky]

No, you didn't, bro.

[Adam Mockler]

He knows about the weed. He knows about the acid, the vodka.

[Tim Miller]

What a. Never called me that before, bro.

[Cam Kasky]

What kind of bro?

[Marco Rubio]

The narcs, they're outside.

[Adam Mockler]

And then I realized I can still edit really, really well. So then I emailed a bunch of cameramen in Iowa, two states over. I said, hey, there's a Trump rally in three days. Can we please go? Like, is there any chance we can do this? One cameraman replied and said, yo, this is my only free weekend. Let's try it out. So I drove there, I met him, and two years later, this is like my main cameraman. So yeah, we filmed it, we edited it, and it worked out well. David Pakman showed it on his channel and it got my video, like 100,000 views. And that kind of shows you how it made its way around the Internet and then boom. Yeah, just a lot of luck, a lot of timing.

[Tim Miller]

Amyl nitrates. That's amazing. Well, Cameron, you said you're in charge of the show today. So what, what are we going to talk about?

[Cam Kasky]

Adam has been going viral recently a lot for his debate lording. And I think that with Tim going on and asking Dean Cain what basic rights are when Dean Cain is signing up to go after grandmas and babysitters and Adam doing his shit with Scott Jennings and the other Dorks. I kind of wanted to have a conversation about the state of debate right now and what it means to. To be debating people in an environment where on the right the tactic to handle really anything is almost always just lie. So it's, you know, it raises a question of, like, how do you engage in some sort of pursuit of any greater truth with people who, when, you know, if their ideas are pushed to the limit or tested in any way, are just going to make up some shit about transgender illegals. So I thought it would be appropriate for us to look at a few clips of Mockler on television debating and just pick them apart a little bit and take the what about my.

[Tim Miller]

We're not to do how it reels of me. We're only going to do. Well.

[Cam Kasky]

I just feel like the people who watch this already see all this.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. I thought we were going to kind of rank. I thought we were going to sort of rank each other.

[Adam Mockler]

I said, include a clip of Tim and Dean Cain.

[Tim Miller]

I said, okay, so I'm just with you. That's fine. People have seen my highlight reel. We'll see how Mocker stacks up. Let's check it out.

[Adam Mockler]

The party that promised to defeat the deep state very quickly became the deep state. Pam Bondi says, I have the list on my desk right here. The rather silent for a few months. Then Elon Musk says, Trump is in the Epstein list. Then within weeks, apparently the list is gone. I mean, I'm looking at this photo of Jack Posobiak holding up the Epstein files. It says the Epstein files phase one, but where's phase two? There's no phase two. He actually helped Epstein be prosecuted.

[Tim Miller]

He was the only person who was involved.

[Adam Mockler]

Kicked him out of the Epstein, you know, all this, like, it's just a very. Have you heard of Alexander Acosta? You were duped to cover sexual abuse. Donald Trump was. You were out of this. Alexander Acosta was a Florida district attorney. You can look this up. He knew both Trump and Epstein. He was appointed as a secretary of labor under Trump and had to resign in 2017 because people found out that he mishandled the Epstein case in 2007 and let Epstein get an illegal plea deal. Epstein was then able to go re offend and Trump appointed him in 2017. So I don't want to hear the dude that was brought to the White House to cover up sexual abuse saying that there was like, what are you trying to say here? Yeah, you got to wipe your face. Can you just wipe that little thing.

[Tim Miller]

Off your face there A little bit.

[Adam Mockler]

You got a little.

[Cam Kasky]

Hold on a second.

[Adam Mockler]

You have no.

[Cam Kasky]

Hold on a second.

[Adam Mockler]

This motherfucker. I hadn't shaved that morning. And he thinks that that's a valid comeback to getting rolled on TV about.

[Tim Miller]

Covering up pedophilia Pizza Gay Jack learning from Carrie Lake. And one of my debates with Kerry, after I'd cornered her, she was like, why do you dress like a 13 year old boy? It's not a bad attack, I will say, like, I guess points, you know, if you're. If you don't have any substantive points to make fun of. My fit is like, it's kind of better than some of the alternative options there. But that was pretty good. Can we talk about peers for a second before we talk about cnn? Because I think that one of the interesting questions is like, which I wrestle with. I'm wondering if you do too, Adam, which is like, why do this? Like, there you are, it's you and Pizzagate Jack and a fat guy and another fat guy, neither of whom are identifiable to my eye.

[Cam Kasky]

Zero good outfits on the entire panel, by the way.

[Tim Miller]

Zero good outfits.

[Cam Kasky]

And that includes you and your fucking athletic T shirt.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, your sweaty tee. Your sweaty tee was the best of a bad bunch there.

[Cam Kasky]

Zero drip, zero drink.

[Adam Mockler]

To be fair, I probably should have shaved. But no, to answer Tim's question, I think it's really important for us to be in these spaces because if not, maybe a weaker debater would have been there or we wouldn't have been there at all and had no representation. And in the attention economy that we all currently live in, being in these spaces and making sure that you dominate the narrative with the fitness facts or with at least fact patterns that people wouldn't hear otherwise. Because think about who's watching Piers Morgan. They think the average liberal is the soyest person possible.

[Tim Miller]

And when they see soy est, that's S o y e S T soyest.

[Adam Mockler]

The soyest person possible.

[Tim Miller]

That's a great word.

[Adam Mockler]

Like Tim.

[Cam Kasky]

And for people in our audience who don't have the newspeak of soy, it's my understanding that soy is sort of like, I was going to say beta, but that's also kind of newspeak. Soy is low testosterone.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Being a wuss. Being a wuss. Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

I'd say on the soy spectrum, when they see like Tim and I on there, they're like, oh, these guys aren't as soy. They're like, well, speak for yourself.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, well, I take off. I should take off my pearls. That's why I take off my pearls sometimes when I go on, because that does give me a little bit of a soy vibe. Sometimes on the weekends, I like to enjoy some refreshments. You know, I like to enjoy some things that chill me out a little bit, including something from our newest sponsor, Corebred Hemp. Maybe you've tried everything under the sun for the peace of mind, but you might want to try Cornbread Hemps CBD gummies. I haven't tried those, but I've tried their beverages. And let me tell you, the beverages are yummy and I appreciate that the person that wrote the script did not make any jokes about how old I am in writing it. I need my peace of mind more than usual lately, which is why I've been reaching for these great federally legal CBD and THC beverages before I doze off, or as an alternative to drinking water, bourbon and cokes before I head out to a live event. Cornbread Hemp CBD gummies are made to help you feel better, whether it's stress, discomfort, or just needing a little relaxation. They only use the best part of the hemp plant, the flower for the purest and most potent CBD. All products are third party, lab tested and USDA organic to ensure safety and purity. Right now, FYpod listeners can save 30% off their first order. Just head to cornbreadhemp.com FYpod and use FYpod at checkout. That's cornbreadhemp.com FYPod and use code FYpod. Hi. Okay, so. So your, your view is you have to be on there to give pheromones, you know, in case there's some dudes on there that just are under the impression that all libs don't. Are not, you know, have no musk, have no, you know, that's why you're on there.

[Adam Mockler]

Just to clarify. No, no, it's not that. It's to basically be able to dominate the narrative in a palatable way. Like, number one, like I said, it's the attention economy. If we can go on there and put up decent arguments. The way that you operate on Piers Morgan, Tim, is really solid because you speak like it's intuitive and like it's common sense. You're like, these people just want to come here to do this. And it's like all common sense. And it actually comes across really, really strong. Imagine if you would have denied that and instead some unhinged liberal comes on and isn't able to make the arguments as well. Then we're ceding territory online. Somebody that already has a preconception of liberals as weak and weird will then see liberals as weak, Weak and weird. And yeah, I think it's just important for us to be out there really quickly. A lot of people in my audience always say, why do you give air to maga? Don't give air to Charlie Kirk and MAGA platforms. It's like, dude, Charlie Kirk is the air. They are the air right now. So we're fighting an uphill battle. We're like Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill every single day, trying to fight back. And we have to be in these spaces.

[Tim Miller]

What if the argument is that this is all just fucking entertainment? And like, it's, it's just, it's like watching a car wreck. It's like rubbernecking. It's just like people just want to see, you know, the people that watch peers are just like, already have their ideological, you know, priors and like, they just want to see fights. They just want to cheer for their guys and like make fun of the other guys. And so like, you're not actually convincing anybody. I have a contrary to that. But I'm curious what yours would be.

[Adam Mockler]

I think that you can't change the playing field. I think that what you just said right there is essentially the playing field of politics. And that's proven every single time Trump steps on the stage. But right now, Republicans are fucking whooping our ass on this attention playing field. They have all these WWE type figures. Half of Trump's cabinet he plucked off of Fox News and they're like melting down off of booze in front of our military generals. Right. So the point is, if that's the playing field right now, we need people out there who can be punching back and playing on that field. And I agree it shouldn't be that way. I wish it could be more substantive. But what's your counter?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, my answer to that is actually it's not for the people watching the full hour. And that's not who I'm, who I'm trying to reach, frankly. I mean, maybe I'll reach somebody that's watching the full hour. That is entry. Interested what I say? But it's all about clips. Like here's the thing about. You mentioned Charlie Kirk and how he is the heir. The average person, you guys actually tell me if I'm wrong about this, but my perception is like the average 23 year old like is, is, is getting, is consuming politics almost entirely through short form video and they're getting it on TikTok or reels or maybe YouTube shorts but like mostly TikTok and then a little bit of the others and made a little snap and, and the, and the preponderance of what they're getting is like Charlie Kirk debate Ben Shapiro debate me bro. I'm owning libs videos. Like that's one thing that they're getting. They're getting goofy Trump stuff that I kind of makes him look goofy but also is kind of funny. Like makes them laugh a little bit and they're getting like crazy libs. Like here is like a far left person like using weird language about you know, Latinx or whatever and like you know they're being, they're being made fun of, right? And like they're sure there's other clips in people's feeds of like politicians saying politician stuff but like the dominant stuff out there that they're getting is either conservatives positioning themselves as winning this thing. Trump goofy stuff Lib crazy stuff. And like me going on and in my, in my own bubble and just getting on my soapbox is fine. Like that gets out to my listeners and people that follow me and they like that stuff and maybe they share that with their friends. But like the only way to break into that world of like the casual is to do a funny thing like beat the fuck out of Dean Cain about ice and the hopes that that like clip is now. So now when the like non political 23 year old is going through there for you page, it's like, oh, here's Charlie Kirk RIP owning somebody. Here's this guy I'm just meeting Tim Miller owning this Superman guy. Here's whatever, right? You know what I mean? Of to bring balance to that. Maybe that's wishful thinking. I don't know. What do you think about?

[Cam Kasky]

I also have mixed thoughts about the matter because generally speaking I think the debate stuff is like intellectually so dumb. Because the example that I use is if you go up and you're debating somebody and you say trump sending ice to do this to migrants is against the law. And the person you're debating says oh yeah, what law? And you can't immediately name the exact law that it's violating and you go, you know it's against the law, you lose and you look like the idiot. And then the debate ends and you Google it and it's like, oh, there's something active 19 that is a problem for debate losers.

[Tim Miller]

But that's not a problem for me.

[Cam Kasky]

Memorization game.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, well that's not a problem for me. And mock is that we never get cornered like that. But. So continue. What are your other concerns? Because that one. That one is resolved by never being cornered.

[Cam Kasky]

It doesn't matter about this specific example. The point is, it is very often a memorization game where your ability to perform in a certain way is more consideration, no doubt, than the pursuit. But. But the other thing that I say, and this is just kind of building off of what you were saying, is I feel like there's a lot of people who are not, you know, policy wonks that want to get into the politics of it all, that see the active debate as, you know, so intrinsically tied to the validity of a certain mindset, and that you see that with how people talked about Charlie Kirk. They were like, oh, say this about Charlie Kirk. Say that about Charlie Kirk. He was willing to debate people. He was willing to go where they were at. And that is so often, like, an integral part of how people treat the seriousness of what you're saying, your willingness to go into other places, including not your home field, and debate it. And that's sort of how I feel where. So, like, while I think that if you really pick apart the actual mechanics of what debating is, it is not some substantive search for a greater truth that involves an exchange of ideas, but it is important in the sense that if this is going to be team sports, not showing up on the field doesn't mean you're winning the game. It means you're not showing up on the field.

[Tim Miller]

I would add just one more thing that's. I'm interested in your take, Mark, like, to take us out of it. Like, let's bring in Maddie, who's a good example. Like, I don't love that, you know, all the Jubilee stuff. Like, some of it, like, is a little cringe, of course, you know, but I see what they're trying to do, and I get that. I appreciate that. Mehdi going in and debating those 20 Nazis, I think was pretty important in that it was the first time in a while that that trend that I talked about, about how people were being fed in their feeds, a lot of, oh, look at this crazy lib shouting about whatever land acknowledgement, whatever the stupid thing is of the day, like the most extreme person on the left does on a college campus at some protest and represent the whole left, like, there isn't. There wasn't any balance to that. And that Medi video happened. And all of a sudden, people are starting to share this, and they're like, whoa, whoa. They're like people who say that they're not on campuses now. Like I knew, I thought that the Dems were just accusing Republicans of being Nazis, but like here like three dudes are like, no, yes, I'm a racist. I, I'm quoting Carl Schmidt. I feel like that's useful to get that out there.

[Adam Mockler]

So useful. And we were seeding so much ground in the clip economy. We still are because the right wing ecosystem to build on what you were saying, Tim, they've created this sort of pipeline, I always call it the pipeline to volume theory. Because they have all of these online pipelines that suck young men and women down or people of all ages. So say you're a young dude and you're into working out, you work out a bunch and you eventually get sucked down this pipeline. That's like make America healthy again. Or say that you're a young dude who has dating problems like every 17 year old has. You eventually get sucked down the pipeline to Andrew Tate stuff. There's young mothers who get sucked down the vaccine pipeline. Young people who don't like APAC are now watching Nick Fuentes. I can continue to go, but they have pipelines. Or Candace Owens, whatever it is. If you're slightly into something they suck you down the pipeline, then it's hit you with volume, volume, volume. I have so many friends who are vaguely Christian and now they're obsessed with Charlie Kirk videos. Like the volume of Charlie Kirk videos that are out there. Thousands, Maybe even like 10,000 Charlie Kirk debate clips just surface. Maybe not that many, but a lot of Charlie Kirk debate clips out there on the Internet.

[Tim Miller]

I think that many. I think that many for sure.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah. The point is they have so much volume that we need to be countering that with our own volume, creating our own pipelines. And Cameron's right, it does kind of turn into a game of whack a mole sometimes. Like when you're debating a conspiracy theorist, they'll have all these random theories that pop up and you have to like endlessly whack them down, even if you don't know what they're talking about. But overall debate is good. And this next clip of me on CNN with Scott Jennings, if we could play that, I think could be a decent.

[Tim Miller]

Hey, who's the host of the show? Mark? Whose channel are we on?

[Adam Mockler]

I'm taking it over.

[Tim Miller]

See Cameron, see this is how he does this. Why he doesn't get cornered like you, you know, like when in doubt I ever gotten cornered.

[Adam Mockler]

I saw the soy radiating out of Tim and I said, sorry, I got.

[Tim Miller]

A. I don't know when you've ever, I've never seen you get cornered, but you seem very concerned about it, that you're not going to know the immigration law of 1986 and that that's going.

[Cam Kasky]

To prevent, you know, prolonged adolescent cannabis use. Made it so my synapses don't fire very quickly and the neurons in my.

[Tim Miller]

Brain offset that with some, with some uppers. The host has a question.

[Cam Kasky]

Now, one of the other things, and this kind of goes to what you were saying about the conspiracy theorist Adam is one of the things I struggle with is when you're debating somebody and they say so many things that are nuts in one breath that you have to pick your battle and figure. When we had Natalie Winters, who's Steve Bannon's cam on the show, Tim and I would just be sitting there and she would go on for two and a half minutes at a time and in those two and a half minutes make seven to nine insane assertions. And then we had to figure out like, okay, which of these do we like go with? But anyway, Dante, let's take a look at this clip of Adam and Scott Jennings and I think at the same time.

[Adam Mockler]

So now we have two people here.

[Tim Miller]

Who are saying it's Donald Trump's fault that someone shot up.

[Adam Mockler]

And I know you literally said that.

[Cam Kasky]

And then you agreed with.

[Adam Mockler]

You want to know what I said? I said, Donald Trump created this environment over the, the past decade. You sat here and said, I need to take responsibility. I'm a 22 year old YouTuber. You hold me to a higher standard than the man I'm holding you to. Your standard of your punditry is the vomiting vitriol out of his mouth about how the other party is weak and evil. And he just said the party of hate, evil and Satan. You blind yourself to that and you're focusing on a 22 year old YouTuber.

[Cam Kasky]

Dude, I like how you covered your eyes when you said blind yourself. It just, that type of gesticulation tells such a good story.

[Tim Miller]

What is, I'm, I'm curious what the Jennings vibe is like with you at the commercial break. Can you talk about that a little bit? Then we'll do the debate stuff. That's what the people really want to know.

[Adam Mockler]

He's fine. He's affable. He's a nice dude.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, he's from. Well, I don't know about nice. He's. He's affable, though. I had one of the worst hours of my life was after Joe Biden had a medical event on the Stage in the most important debate in modern history. And then I was there in Atlanta to do spin afterwards. Luckily, it was so bad that nobody wanted me to spin because they needed to, like, call in more important people than me to come on tv. So it was like a moment of seriousness. They didn't need a clownish YouTuber to come in, so that was nice, but. And the next day at the airport, I walk up, I'm in the security line, and Scott Jennings walks behind me in the security line. Like, what are the odds? I had to wait in the security. I am TSA pre, but I had to wait in the security line for like six minutes with Scott Jennings. And it was a true nightmare. Somebody I've known for a long time, and he was so smug and so happy. And I was just like, this is a cosmic punishment for me. This is a cosmic punishment. I was paid off yet last week, though, because I got into the security line next to Ezra Koenig and we got to hang out and vibe out. People can Google that as if they want. But anyway, the value of debating on CNN versus the YouTube stuff. Talk to me about that. Is that like brand building or do you think that there's a point of going on cnn?

[Cam Kasky]

You're clip farming. You're getting the clips that you want to put on people's for you pages, and they fucking clips are everywhere. And it's like, I love you, Adam, you're my friend. But it's like, you're my friend. I want to be able to look at social media and watch baseball clips and look at Legos and lizards and stuff. And it's just fucking clips of you on cnn.

[Tim Miller]

That's right.

[Adam Mockler]

Some of it. Some of it is brand building. But honestly, as I was going on the show for the past few months and like, prepping for it especially, this is going to sound arrogant, but I was turning on mainstream media like CNN or msnbc, and I was thinking a lot of our pundits are just boring. A lot of people on our side.

[Tim Miller]

Are a little bit present company, present company excluded. That's all. I'm over there. Are you not watching my Nicole Wallace hits? I mean, I'm fucking lighting the room on fire for those ladies. You know, the wine, the wine grandmoms on msnbc.

[Cam Kasky]

I do impressions of people. Like there's multiple clips of me doing funny voices on it. All right, so maybe, maybe be a little bit more specific because present company is doing a pretty good job.

[Adam Mockler]

I'm clearly not talking about you guys. I'm saying Generally when I turn on, like, no, no, I'm not talking about my friends that go on TV and do hits. I'm saying when I turn on the mainstream prime time, I'm just not as captivated as when I go on YouTube and I watch you guys who pull 100 million views a month or 200 across platforms. Like, you guys clearly are the outlier in what I'm saying here because you have online profiles. But I'm just like, yeah, I think mainstream media needs more personality, needs people who can push back. And I think that we need people who can do a good job. I think, Tim, you do a good job on Piers Morgan. Thank you.

[Tim Miller]

I have another question for you. Can you, like, you were talking about your prep. Like, how much prep are you doing? Like, you're, you're pretty sharp up there while we're gassing each other up. Like, you, you seem to have like, I could see, like, are you just rolling or do you, do you have.

[Cam Kasky]

Some material that you've been working, established that he's a straight guest. Oh, preparation.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Not. I'm doing prep every afternoon. But, but we're talking about debate prep. Yeah, you know, like a book you don't do before this podcast. Like get ready. You know, think about the topics, Think about what you're going to say.

[Adam Mockler]

We get the topics like five hours beforehand or whatever. I think that that's the prep. I do. I have an advisor now. Micah. He's great. Micah Irfan. You probably see him on Twitter all over.

[Tim Miller]

I love Micah. Mike has been. Mike was a potential FY POD guest. We're monitoring him or just kind of. We, you know, we, we do a lot of vetting first, so we'll see if he can, if he makes the cut. But, but. So Mike is helping you out.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, he's like our lead policy advisor. He's been like for like a month. It's funny because our lead policy advisor is like the same age as me. So when I bring him in, it's just two young dudes. I'm like our lead policy advisor, Micah, and it's another 22 year old. But I think that, yeah, the prep, a lot of it is just intuitive too. It's interesting because you know this, the short form debate, like back and forth is different than long form debate. You're playing a game. You're playing a different game there. So a lot of that is just rhetoric, but I think that's what I'm saying.

[Tim Miller]

Do you have like a, do you have like a 90 second, like little, little elevator pitch. You're working your head. You're like, I know the topic's gonna be whatever the shooting. Here's my thing about young white men. And you, like, practice it a few times. You practice it a few times in your head or no. Are you just. Do you take notes? Like, what's your. What's your.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, I have a few fallbacks, a few fallback lines I can hop on. But that white man algorithm thing was actually something I've been working on for a few weeks. I didn't even think I was going to bring that up, but everyone was like, bickering and I was like, you know what? I'm going to pull it back and try to go broader here. But no. One point that I made there, I think was illustrated in real time that all of these right wing pundits hold Trump to, like, no standards and hold left wing pundits to the most.

[Tim Miller]

That was really good.

[Adam Mockler]

This motherfucker, he points at me, he goes, why don't you take responsibility for this? And that was a good opening because I was like, wait a minute, you want me to take responsibility? When just a second ago you were saying Donald Trump himself basically has no responsibility for upping the political tension. It's. It's pretty annoying and I'm sick of it.

[Tim Miller]

What, what about nervousness? What's your nervousness level?

[Adam Mockler]

I'm getting a lot better at not being nervous. Here's the thing, being nervous is normal. Even before Piers Morgan, I get a little bit sweaty. It kind of like, it throws off my morning because I have to spend my morning prepping and everything. But I'm getting to a point where I'm trusting myself. Once you can trust yourself to deliver, does that make sense? Like, I know that even if I up a bit, I can pull it back together and I trust myself to deliver. So that's been really.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, the live TV is a little bit more nervous like, like being around the table with, with, you know, Scott there and those guys. Is that. That. That isn't a little more.

[Adam Mockler]

I actually found that to be. No, I find that to be calming. I find that better environment. I like that a lot.

[Tim Miller]

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[Cam Kasky]

We were talking about this on the Monday night episode of the show when we were talking about alleged sex creep and journalist Andrew Callahan talking to Pete Buttigieg and getting ripped for not asking him certain questions. It is kind of challenging sometimes when you're in front of someone to like actually hit the same way that it might be a little bit easier on like a Skype call or a zoom call or whatever. But it just brought me back to when I was ripping on Marco Rubio at the town hall after the shooting at my high school and I was like really fucking going after him for a very prolonged amount of time when I was 17. Like that was.

[Tim Miller]

We should put that up for people who've missed it.

[Cam Kasky]

So, Senator Rubio, can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from the NRA in the future?

[Marco Rubio]

So, number one, the positions I hold on these issues of the second amendment I've held since the day I entered office in the city of West Miami as an elected official? Number two, no. The answer to the question is that people buy into my agenda. And I do support the second amendment and I also support the right of you and everyone here to be able to go to school and be safe. And I do support any law that would keep guns out of the hands of a deranged killer. And that's why I support the things that I have stood for and fought for during my time here.

[Cam Kasky]

More NRA money.

[Adam Mockler]

More NRA money.

[Cam Kasky]

In the name of 17 people, you cannot ask the NRA to keep their money out of your campaign.

[Marco Rubio]

I think in the name of 17 people, I can pledge to you that I would support any law that will prevent a killer like this.

[Cam Kasky]

No, but I'm talking about my money. No, no, because, matter of fact, I bet we can get people in here to give you exactly as much money as the NRA would have.

[Marco Rubio]

But it's not. But ultimately, look, the First Amendment is as important as the second, and therefore, you have every right to ask that question of me. And I here to tell you, I.

[Cam Kasky]

Will stand money from the NRA in the future.

[Marco Rubio]

I've always supported. I will always accept the help of anyone who agrees with my agenda.

[Cam Kasky]

That's. That was a very long, extended confrontation, and it was with someone who was an authority figure when I was 17. And I had never interacted with politicians before and everything, but I think what happened with Marco was when I looked him in the eye, I didn't see a person looking back. I just saw a soulless, like, body. So it wasn't hard for me to confront him because I didn't see any humanity behind his eyes. Whereas other people that I've talked to and been afraid to confront, sometimes it's because I do see that there's a person in there. With Marco, it was just a different story. And I'm curious, Tim, like, when you've, like, face to face, had to go at it with somebody, do you. Do you, like, experience a varying degree of, like, oh, there's a person here?

[Tim Miller]

Not really. Yeah. I mean, kind of like Mark. It's weird. It shows you how irrational nerves are. Maybe this can be useful for somebody because, like, like Monkler, there's something calming to me about being in a debate setting. I know we're going back and forth, and I wouldn't say that it means that I see that they're soulless or whatever. I'm just like, either. When I was on the circus and I was interviewing them, I'm like, this is a hostile kind of thing. I'd get a little nervous. Obviously, confronting someone is a. Nervous is not the most comfortable thing. But I'd be like, okay, I'm in this environment where I'm either debating Dean Cain or I'm questioning Ted Cruz or Steve Bannon or Carrie Lake or whatever and I'm playing my role in this thing and I get locked in on that. And then in my home little studio here, I don't even think about it. I'm just doing thousand mile stare at the empty screen and just fucking cooking. I get more, I get more nervous like in friendly interviews like every once in a while, which is crazy. I'll still get nervous if it's just like me and Chris Hayes on set together because I'm like, ooh, I don't kind of know what he's gonna ask me, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Like a lot of people are watching this live and like, do I have something on my face like Adam did? I don't know. Like I get nervous in irrational ways sometimes and like the debate thing is really it for me.

[Adam Mockler]

I didn't actually have anything on my face. Motherfucker.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, you didn't get.

[Cam Kasky]

Tim, you're buying into right wing propaganda.

[Tim Miller]

I am already buying it. This is why that stuff works. I did actually dress like a 13 year old. I will say just really quick on the Andrew Callahan thing because we had some commenters who are also Patreon members of Andrew Callahan, which I think shows our reach, you know that we're, we're crossing different bubbles. And some of them had watched it and Cam, you said on the app you're like, I guess the feedback was that he didn't ask Pete about his Israel at all. And it turned out he did. They, he, they talked about it for like 10 or 15 minutes apparently. I still haven't seen it and I just think that's like so interesting. That is the other like element of all this. When you think about this vs long form and clips vs audience etc was like some of the audience for some of these long form debates, the people are there just because they want to see the person get embarrassed. Right? Like there was some people in the Andrew Callahan audience are like, they're not, he's not trying to convince anybody. Like I just, I don't like Pete because I perceive him to be a corporate woke lib or whatever and I'm a like dirt bag leftist and I just want to see him lose. And when Andrew didn't win, like people were mad and I think that like that's just kind of a dumb way to think about all this stuff because just like that's not serving any purpose. Like get like having our biggest fans at the bulwark. Be so happy that I owned somebody is like, great, but, like, that is just empty calories, you know? Like, the point of this is like, how can you frame stuff up in ways that can at least maybe, like, reach other people too? At least that's how I think about it. You want to make people counterpoint. You want to make your. Your fans happy, Mark.

[Adam Mockler]

That's your kind of F Dean Cain counterpoint.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, no, I'm sure there's nothing wrong with feeling good about owning somebody. Nothing wrong about that.

[Cam Kasky]

Adam is so good at YouTube that he is just so scientifically trained to not even say, like, he just knows to say F for monetization purposes. Like, is that true?

[Tim Miller]

Are you. What about the R word? Are you saying that one, Mark? What's that? Come up with a channel policy on that one yet or the P word?

[Adam Mockler]

I don't personally say the R word on my channel or much in my life, but I do have a shoot coming out soon that I did with Michael Knowles where the crowd started chanting libtard at me. So I said, you want to call me a libtard? Your president is the R word. And I did say it. And I.

[Tim Miller]

All right, okay.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah. And it's coming.

[Cam Kasky]

The movement goes on. La resistance lives on. Is the Michael Knowles thing coming out? Do we have confirmation for that?

[Adam Mockler]

It should be coming out. The Michael Knowles team continues to say it comes out. Yesterday I tagged him in an Instagram story and I said, soon my debate with Michael Knowles will be coming out. And he saw it. They didn't even confirm it. I just want to place pressure on them, basically. And it got like.

[Tim Miller]

It got like, what, sorry, 30,000 views. So people, I was one of the 30,000 viewers and I. And we've spoken about this. Me and Adam have. I'm bringing it into the public. I'm already upset at you about it, though. I'm already upset about the. About the debate with Michael Knowles because he did not bring up the picture of Michael Knowles doing the gay movie where he's naked in bed with another man because Michael Knowles did gay film before he became one of the nation's leadest leading anti gay hate mongers. And I'm like, it is. It is incumbent upon anybody that debates with Michael Knowles to come with a life size printout of him in bed with another man for a softcore gay porn. And now I'm gonna want that on screen of this video right now because I do like to bring it up as much as possible. And so I'm a little bit Disappointed in you on that.

[Adam Mockler]

Can I end this off by saying what I realized when debating Michael Knowles? Like, just to bring it back to being serious for a second. When I was debating Michael Knowles.

[Tim Miller]

I'm fucking dead serious. I'm serious as a heart attack that I want everybody that talks to Michael Knowles to come and bring that picture up so that he has to see it and live with his own shame and hypocrisy. I'm dead serious. Now you can also be serious. I just don't want anybody to think I'm joking about that. In case anyone else has an opportunity to see Michael Knowles anytime soon, I.

[Adam Mockler]

Realize that this guy is literally just playing a Christian theocrat on tv. Essentially. Like, all these people are playing. Like, when you, when you do these debates, everyone's super nice in the green room. You know, you, you bro up in the green room, you're like, what's up? And then you go on TV and you're going at each other. But, but overall, I feel like a lot of these people are playing acts and we're basically ourselves when we do these debates. We don't have to put on a bit or like, be smug or whatever. It's just we're being ourselves. And I think at the end of the day, that's what people forget. I also want to say, does this come out on Thursday?

[Tim Miller]

Saturday.

[Adam Mockler]

Saturday. Okay. Okay, thanks. My birthday is on Thursday, so I was gonna say this is. Thank you for indulging me with this episode of my clips during this week.

[Tim Miller]

I'll tell you, shout out to Kellyanne Conway, who is. This is in the spirit of Adam, who is a B word in the green room as well. And I respect that. I actually, I respect that. Okay, I'm with you. I don't like, I don't like people being fake nice to me in the green room. Okay, like, whatever. I'll throw down a beer with some MAGA people and. But like, I'll shit talk them while I'm doing it too. Like, I'm not gonna be a dick about it, but I'm not gonna, like, pretend like, oh, I think, I think we're. I think they're great. But I, I don't love the fake nice stuff. I'm like, okay, just like, be a dick. We. You're a dick. That's fine. Just own it. So shout out to Kellyanne for that. But you're right, most of these people are fake.

[Cam Kasky]

And it's because a lot of them are actors. I mean, you know, I, I don't know how often we talk about this? I talk about it a lot in my personal life. The acting slash theater to politics. Theater pipeline is so remarkable. The more people you talk to in the political media space, you make one reference to a musical and they're like, oh, you're a freak too. All right. Like there's so many theater kids. Michael Knowles, theater kid. Ben Shapiro wanted to be a Hollywood writer. Andrew Clavin had some success as a Hollywood writer. They all came together and did the Daily Wire. And the Daily Wire is just.

[Tim Miller]

James o' Keefe has a theater troupe. James o' Keefe had, like Project Veritas, paid for a dancing troupe. James o'. Keefe. I met this gentleman at Attorney Point USA event. James o' Keefe has a. What's it called? A choreographer. He had a choreographer on staff at Project Veritas so they could do dance routines.

[Cam Kasky]

And one of the things that has been lending to the really rapid decline we've seen in the Daily Wire, other than their inability to reel their own talent in in ways that ends up making them eat each other alive, is that they tried to expand very hard and very fast and with a lot of dark money into movie and TV production. Daily Wire started doing these very, very expensive productions. They wanted to make an anti woke Snow White movie starring Brett Cooper, who is married. So that's all I'm gonna say. They wanted to make a medieval like King Arthur show called the Pendragon Cycle adapting these famous novel. These are not cheap productions. They wanted to make a counter anti woke Hollywood which requires millions and millions of millions of dollars. But these people aren't talented. They made a cartoon called Mr. Burcham with some right wing comedian Andrew something, I don't know and like Candace voiced a character and they. I'm pretty sure like if not Tomi Lahren, like one of one of the Tommy Lahren's running around did it and it makes me think like I think we should make a project where myness, touch and bulwark both get just a set budget and we using all of our talent have to make our own movie that is bringing woke back to Hollywood.

[Tim Miller]

I would rather not do that.

[Cam Kasky]

Did you see the Lady Ballers trailer? Do you know what Lady Ballers was?

[Tim Miller]

I know the Lady Ballers. Yeah.

[Cam Kasky]

Anti trans basketball sports movie. And all of the Republicans were acting in it. Fucking Ted Cruz cameos. Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Jordan Peterson, like they were. They literally just made like a drama kid fantasy project where they all got to live their dream of being actors and Like I want to see me and JVL doing like an action scene together. That sounds great.

[Tim Miller]

I'm going to have to say no on that.

[Adam Mockler]

When we were at that conference in D.C. cam, someone looked at me and was like, you realize they say the that D.C. is Hollywood for ugly people. And I was like, wait. I was like, that's true. But hey, wait a minute.

[Tim Miller]

I live in Chicago. I have a question for you on the debate stuff. Adam, I want to get you out of the, I want to get you out of the, you know, kind of blue haired centrists, neoliberal liberal like woke pipeline of debating on CNN and get you into the real shit.

[Cam Kasky]

How many people with blue hair do they have on cnn?

[Tim Miller]

No watchers. The watchers of CNN are, you know, they're elderly. Dude.

[Cam Kasky]

People with blue hair are watching Hassan. Like they're.

[Tim Miller]

No, I'm talking about not dyed blue hair. I'm talking about their hair has gone from brown to gray to blue.

[Cam Kasky]

Got it.

[Tim Miller]

You know how really old ladies have blue hair or men and nothing wrong with it. We appreciate all of you who are viewing this channel.

[Cam Kasky]

I love fun hair color.

[Tim Miller]

No, I don't want your feedback. But I do on this show. On the other shows it's fine. I don't really love when 82 year olds provide feedback to the FY pod though. Whatever, I can take it. I'm a big boy. I'm not a snowflake. The viewers of CNN I think are median age like 68. And what I want from Mach is I need you in either like the crypto space. Can you do crypto? Do you know any crypto? Do you know any MMA sports, gambling, golf? Do you know any of these things?

[Adam Mockler]

Crypto stocks? I could learn some baseball. Should we do some like basketball training? And then I go in these spaces and I'm lived up.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I like, I want you to go on like the, you know, the Wall street memes account. You know, I want you to like, I want you to do some debate lord stuff in, in the toxic bro space. I feel like that is where, where your, your, your highest and best purpose. Can we work on that?

[Adam Mockler]

The red pill spaces. Wall street bets. The crypto spaces.

[Tim Miller]

And then.

[Adam Mockler]

Dude, that's actually a decent idea because if I continue to scale my business, I can be an example of someone who's like, hey, I'm a business owner. I'm not a fucking loser. And I'm someone who talked to you about this.

[Tim Miller]

You can get rich and do the Dave Portnoy ball barstool. Thing where you're just like, you. I'm a rich lib. You. I'm gonna. And if I. If you ever lose a debate, you just be like, you. You think you won the debate? I'm rich. You're arguing on YouTube. You lose or blast like alpha. That's. That's what I want from you.

[Adam Mockler]

Let's get you rich Scott Jennings next week.

[Tim Miller]

You're like, yeah, let's get you rich on Ethereum and shit talking people. That's what I want from you.

[Cam Kasky]

But also doing, like, selfie videos with nice cars. Like, they don't even need to be our cars. Like, I have a lot of rich friends. If I just went to my rich friends, nice houses and on vacation with their families and just started taking selfie videos. Like, yeah, man, look where woke got me. Like, I say pronouns and stuff. And this is. And I'm hanging out here in the sauna.

[Tim Miller]

Can I say yeah, exactly.

[Adam Mockler]

A lot of my debates over the next few years might be about, like, race type stuff. Not because I want to, but because when I go through my feed or what my young friends are liking. This is a really serious problem. Nick Fuentes is about to be the biggest political commentator for young people over the next two to three years. And this is a projection that I'm decently confident in. I think that Nick Fuentes continues to rise. I think he knows when to moderate his beliefs, but he wraps it all in this. So he does this thing too. And I've been studying him as somebody who I pay attention to. He's in the space, he tries.

[Tim Miller]

So talented. And he's a racist prick. He's totally irritated. He's awful. But he's so talented. He's so good at this.

[Adam Mockler]

Everything I'm saying is with like, the presupposition that he's a terrible racist person. But he makes it all seem intuitive. He's like, why? Why do I not want my children to look like me? I want my children to be the same race and I want my grandchildren to be the same race, therefore. But he never really says the prescription. Like, what's the prescription there? You know, he never fully leads you there. So then we have a whole group of young people who are growing up on this front. The point is, I think I'm gonna have to spend a lot of time combating stuff like that. Clip farming on stuff like that. Also, I'm gonna do red pill spaces too, but we'll see where it takes me.

[Tim Miller]

You love. I love that. That's good. You should do that. Your point on fantasies? This is the other thing I was gonna ask you about. And then we're kind of running out of time, but you saw this dude, Bryland. Holly Hole. I think that Hollyhand.

[Adam Mockler]

I debated him.

[Tim Miller]

Holly Hole. What did you say?

[Cam Kasky]

Cameron Brylon. Hollyhand. He sounds Holly Hole.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sorry.

[Cam Kasky]

From Game of Thrones.

[Tim Miller]

Whatever. And he looks like. I'm not going to say what I was about to say. He has, like a 1990s Republican vibe about him, and he's trying to do the. Fill the Charlie Kirk space. And, you know, and it's just like, it's not. This is not going to happen, bro. It's like the Fuentes people are filling. Filling that space. Like it's getting worse, not better. So it seems like you agree with that. I don't know if there's any even thing to discuss. We have unanimity on that.

[Adam Mockler]

I've been following Brylan Hollyhan for a year because my first ever TV hit was on not Newsmax, but Newsmax 2. And I went on and I tried.

[Tim Miller]

There's a Newsmax 2.

[Adam Mockler]

There's a Newsmax 2.

[Tim Miller]

Wow. T O O or TW.

[Adam Mockler]

Oh, TW O letter 2. It's not a second movie for a series or some. But I hopped on and I, like, I debated this Bryland kid, and the hosts started debating me back. So it was a 3v1. I realized this kid doesn't have the juice. Since then, he's been trying so hard to plant himself and do these college tours. And after Kirk died, he honestly must have been jumping with joy. He's like, this is my opportunity to get in there. He doesn't have the juice.

[Tim Miller]

Charlie Kirk, do you have that clip of you versus Brylan on Newsmax 2? Of course.

[Adam Mockler]

We'll put it up.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, let's put that up, too. Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

Why didn't you do that his first four years, though? Why didn't he already do that? I can put the same.

[Tim Miller]

Because he was actually, actually creating a foundation.

[Adam Mockler]

He created such a good foundation that 92% of his advisors turned on him. All of his closest generals turned on him. He lost his vice vice president. What kind of person builds a foundation that they have to completely restart fresh their next administration? I mean, Brylan, can you tell me why Mike Pence isn't his VP anymore?

[Tim Miller]

Adam, I appreciate you asking the questions, but I'm going to take the reins.

[Adam Mockler]

Back since we're the hosts. I mean, just end this off for everything they say. About Charlie Kirk, which I agree with. Like, I have made 100 videos debunking Charlie Kirk's beliefs. He did have, quote, unquote, the juice. Like, you can't just deny that he built something that was unique throughout his lower 20s, mid 20s and upper 20s. Brylan Holly Hand is like a uncharismatic shell of a person.

[Cam Kasky]

I think we've played this clip on FYPOD before, but it's been a while, so I want to play it again. I'm not really a debater, but I was invited on News Nation to talk about the illegal war, you know, strikes in Iran. And I was put on with this kid, Jackson Gosnell, friend of the show. He's this little Lindsey Graham type that was beaming with an ear to ear grin the entire Charlie Kirk funeral because he understood what a career opportunity it was for him. And this is us talking about Iran.

[Adam Mockler]

Little kid.

[Tim Miller]

Right? Let's make that the last point, Jackson, because that's true for you too, right? Since you're a little kid who was Iraq, Afghanistan, that's all you've known, right?

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, exactly. But I would argue that it's because of Democrats, right? We had another term of Trump before.

[Cam Kasky]

And there was not the Democratic President, George W. Bush. I mean, heard that stuff about WMDs.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, that is a little bit of a rough one, Jackson.

[Adam Mockler]

Well, I mean, I think that Democrats largely, they love to get involved in things that they don't need to be involved with. And then Republicans have to put out the fires. I think that largely that's happened over and over again.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, the whole. Yeah, I have to say that. Yeah, the George W. Bush thing's a tough one, though. But I get your, your larger points, both of you.

[Cam Kasky]

And the reason I bring this clip up is because Adam said something very important when he was talking about Holly Hand, which is that to be a conservative commentator, you don't need skills, you don't need intellect, you don't need swagger or charisma or to be.

[Tim Miller]

You need some Riz. To be really good, you need Riz.

[Cam Kasky]

To be really good, you need Riz, sure. But to get to a point where they invite you to like the White House now, and to get to a point where you get to be making content on Capitol Hill with these politicians, the bar is so low. If you just repeat the same six talking points, you know, me, Adam, our friend Jack Contrella, similar, we get held to a higher standard. That's all I'm saying. I'm not high. You know, I'm not Mr. Intellectual. I speak to how people feel at any given time. That's my field of expertise. But we all have to have a thing. We all have to have a thing that we do. And to be a conservative commentator, especially as a zoomer, if you just say the same six things enthusiastically enough, boom, they're gonna lift you up, they're gonna industry plant you, and you don't have to fight for shit.

[Adam Mockler]

And you have to be very obviously in the closet too.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you gotta work on that Southern accent, Cameron. It's just, it's not quite there. Before I get to the mailbag, our final segment, you had a pitch that you mentioned in the green room, but. But I cut you off so that you can go live.

[Cam Kasky]

Bulwark Live. We've got breaking news. I spoke with the team over at Bulwark, all of the people who run the company with whom I regularly speak and who know who I am, and we were talking about doing a Bulwark Live event, bringing together all of the best top political commentators. That's guys like us, that's guys like our friends at Midas, that's guys like the pod save folks, things like that. And we are going to make a conference in the beautiful, beautiful desert oasis paradise of Saudi Arabia. It is going to be paid for by really well, okay, who's paying for it? Are you familiar with 9 11?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Cam Kasky]

Okay, don't worry about that. It's going to be paid for by.

[Tim Miller]

The Saudis, the Crown Prince.

[Cam Kasky]

We spoke with them. We. Listen, listen. A lot of people are going to be critical. A lot of people are going to call us sellouts and say that we don't have any morals. And to that all I can say is we talked to Qatar. We talked to Qatar. We talked about what they would have to offer us, whether that's an airplane, whether that's some sort of neutral ground for some peace talks. And at the end of the day, the Saudis are so dedicated to the art form of liberal democracy that they were willing to put the money out there. And we're humans. Like, we're as entitled to a boat or a beach house or, you know, some new stocks as anybody on the right. And I think that there's a left wing purity test where they say, oh, you know, these people were involved in the conspiracy to do 9 11, which means that you can't take money from it. It's like, okay, fuck you. Like every country has its own problem. No. So we're riffing on the comedy show and I encourage you to look this up. I forget what it's called.

[Tim Miller]

The Riyadh Comedy Festival. Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's not great. All these guys are going to there. Everyone's going there. Even some people I really like in the comedy festival.

[Cam Kasky]

Some of the most famous comedians of all time.

[Tim Miller]

Pete Davidson's dad was a firefighter who died at 9 11. Now far be it for me to tell Pete Davidson how to honor his dead father, but he's going. I thought that was noteworthy. Here's the problem for me. Even if I shared the just total moral vacuity of the people going there, even if I was one of those people who was like, I don't see black or white, I only see green. The only color I care about is green. Even if I was one of those people.

[Cam Kasky]

That's something diamond and silk said about Trump. By the way, diamond and Silk, they made a song called Trump's your president and one of the things they said was the only color he sees is green.

[Tim Miller]

Even if I was somebody like that. We have a big problem with this idea, which is I can't take the Crown Prince's money for two reasons. Number one, I did pro bona PR back before I was a content king. I did PR for a friend whose children were kidnapped by the Crown Prince and I believe are still imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. And so I've said a lot of very nasty things about him. And I was warned by my friends that I'm no longer allowed to go to Saudi Arabia. Not that I was ever fucking wanting to go to Saudi Arabia anyway. Not also very nice to the gays there? No really pop in gay bars. You know, after the live shows, I like to go to the gay bar. Usually no pop in gay bars in Riyadh. But then on top of that final thing and Mako, I'm wondering what your take is on this, but I've become a little bit. I have a little bit of professional jealousy with Candace that she, you know, she has got like the amount of engagement she gets. Talking about how Emmanuel Macron's wife has a dick is really off the charts. I mean, she's getting. She's doing numbers that are way bigger than mine. Now I will say that Brigitte Macron apparently has now in court made filings demonstrating that she does not have a dick. I didn't care one way or the other. I believed her from the start. But candidates success on the transvestigation. The failed transvestigation of Brigitte Macron had me wondering some things and on a recent episode of Pod Save America, I was floating something that I'd heard just kind of around the grapevine, which was that MBS was intersex and he has, like, a micro phallus. And so I was kind of discussing that and, like, whether, like, the next time he comes, like, we need to have doctors kind of get out the little forceps and, like, kind of check underneath his. His. His dress and, like, see if that's true or not. If he's really a hermaphrodite. And we don't know anything about that one way or the other. It's just something we're hearing out there. It's an allegation. It's not something I'd ever accuse the MBS of, but it's something that we're looking. That we might consider looking into, you know, just given the content engagement. I'm just wondering if you've thought about any transvestigation as part of your platform or whether you're kind of happy with the material you're putting out.

[Adam Mockler]

We were going to start one on Candace Owens a bit back, but that might be a bit too ultra ironic on the nose.

[Tim Miller]

She has had a child. What would be the idea there? That the uterus. It's a fake uterus, or what would be the. What would be the thought?

[Adam Mockler]

I haven't seen any, like, evidence she actually had the child. I don't know. Here's the thing. They do this to Michelle Obama all the time in the most disgusting way. They do, like, literally, Michelle. They always say the same thing where, like, Michelle has multiple kids or, like, we didn't see her have the kids. Her kids. They always have some answer for it.

[Cam Kasky]

So while all those children are like a spitting image of their parents.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, I'm waiting. I'm basically crafting my transvestigation theory so I can unveil it on cnn.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, well, that's good. You keep working on that.

[Cam Kasky]

I would like to thank one of our sponsors to whom I am very morally compelled to support ExpressVPN. This show is sponsored by ExpressVPN. True or false? Incognito mode makes you invisible on the Internet. The answer is, in case you couldn't guess this, false, most people have no idea. But your browsing history can still be monitored and even recorded, unless you use ExpressVPN. Oh, shit. ExpressVPN lets you change your online location so you can control where you want Netflix to think you're located. They have servers in over 100 countries, so you can gain access to thousands of new shows and never run out of stuff to watch. I wanted to watch the Notebook, which I watch several times a week a few weeks ago because that left us Netflix at the end of August. But it's still kicking around in Australia where they also got rid of guns. ExpressVPN also keeps you private and secure by rerouting all your traffic through an encrypted tunnel. And I assure you I know exactly what that means. It's easy to use. Just fire up the app and click one button to change locations and it works on all your devices, phones, laptops, tablets, smart TVs and mobile. More Protect your online privacy today by visiting expressvpn.com FYpod that is expressvpn.com FYpod to find out how you can get up to four extra months free. Expressvpn.com FYpod thank you so much ExpressVPN.

[Tim Miller]

Final thing, final segment. It's Boomer Mailbag. Let's go. All right, the mover mailbag question is for Cameron this week though it might be for both you. I don't think that the the commenter knew that we were going to have a heterosexual male on the show. Why would they have assumed that considering they're very challenging to find just you and Harry Sisson. As far as I can tell, my daughter. Here it is. My daughter named redacted is a 26 year old former marine and musician attending also Redacted where she is studying French horn performance. 26 year old former marine studying French horn performance. She's really smart, charismatic and exhaustingly extroverted. She likes role playing games, board games, soccer and performing classical music. Unfortunately, she also has a history touched by gun violence. That's sad. But having been a marine, she's also an expert markswoman, although she's not a gun person per se. And she's bisexual. Everybody's fucking bisexual and she's bisexual. Any chance Karen wants to meet her? Before you answer, I want to run down one more time. Marine, French horn performance, Smart, extroverted, exhaustingly role playing games, soccer, been touched by gun violence, expert marksman, also has touched to gun violence, expert marksman Cameron. Any chance you would like to meet her?

[Cam Kasky]

I would like to meet everyone that I possibly can in these United States. To this young woman I want to say listen, in a world where it's hard to figure out how to talk to people and relate to people and get to know them, you have something that we in the world of theater call range because you've got A lot of stuff going on and I want you to play into that and recognize that you seem like a very interesting person. And if you accept that about yourself and you own it and you're proud of it, you're gonna do well on the dating market because you have a lot of shit to talk about, right? So listen, I love classical music. I don't like role playing games because I don't have the attention span for them, but I love the idea of it. Like, you seem like a catch, you know, I don't know if I need to be in a relationship with another person who has a personal experience with gun violence just because I would love to have a relationship where I don't have to think about gun violence as much as I already do. That's just a personal thing. It's the same way that I don't want to date someone who's like, like really, really, really into politics. Because then when I go home at night, it's harder to take a load off and feel like I can turn off for a little while. I want someone who I can know that for like the hour before we go to bed, politics is just not going to come up. But Adam seems interesting.

[Tim Miller]

Seems a long way to say no. Adam, what about you?

[Adam Mockler]

No, I mean that was a really serious, thoughtful answer from Cameron and yeah, sounds like a great human being.

[Tim Miller]

I 26, how's that age for you? That's a little older than older woman or do you date older women or what's your preference?

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, I mean I could do 26, but honestly, no, it sounds like a great person, but I'm. I'm too busy to date right now.

[Tim Miller]

You're not dating at all?

[Adam Mockler]

Not really, no. I mean I have like my flings or whatever, but I am not able to commit time to a relationship right now.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. Or whatever. I like that flings. Want to leave that hanging in the air for people that might be interested in a fling or whatever out there. All right, Cameron, take us home everybody.

[Cam Kasky]

This was the show. Adam Mockler is not only a friend and not only someone who sends me Google Calendar invites for regular friend hangouts, which is something for which he ought to go to prison. He is also a frequent guest and contributor on the spin off Fypod channel that you all should subscribe to. I have Adam on to talk about the stuff that is not important enough for him to cover on his own channel so he can just have an outlet to go after some of the goofier shit with me. So everybody like and subscribe to that. Thank you so much for tuning in. Next week, Tim and I have some fun surprises for you. We're going to be returning to our in person studio, which is very fun.

[Tim Miller]

I'm going to be poking you in.

[Cam Kasky]

The upper chest and Tim is going to poke me, which is something that I will scream about and then it'll be a problem for the Bullwark Office. Everybody like and subscribe. We'll be seeing you soon.

[Tim Miller]

Adam.

[Cam Kasky]

Thanks so much, brother. Keep up the good work.

[Tim Miller]

Later, Mark, appreciate you.