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- [00:00]
A
Ever wanted to stay on vacation longer?
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B
Us too.
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A
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B
Whoa. When did I get here?
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A
What do you mean?
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C
I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.
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A
It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.
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C
It is the.
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B
It's.
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A
It's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.
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C
It's all good.
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B
Happens all the time.
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A
Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pickup times may vary and fees may apply.
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C
Tim, you've seen the coolers with wheels, right?
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B
The butt snorkeling.
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C
The butt snorkeling?
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B
No. Is that not right? I don't know. I don't know.
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C
What the fuck is butt snorkeling?
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B
I got confused.
- [01:02]
C
Hey, everybody, I'm Cam Caskey.
- [01:03]
B
And I'm Tim Miller. And this is Fypod, where we talk about young people things and stuff with one old man and a couple of younger gentlemen. And today the gentleman is Jay Reg. We have a mutual friend, J.J. mcCullough, who's like, you have to talk to my friend Jay Reg. And I have to tell you what I know about you is what I've learned through watching like four videos. And so I'm coming in blind. I trust JJ implicitly. And so, like, just. Just whatever. Let's see how it goes.
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D
I also trust JJ implicitly. Whatever he tells me to do, I do.
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B
I don't think about it.
- [01:39]
D
I don't really have an internal monologue when it comes to jj.
- [01:42]
B
I just. He overrides kind of like a dom sub relationship a little.
- [01:46]
D
You know, some. Some might say that J.J. mcCullough, he's.
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B
He's a Canadian YouTuber. You're also Canadian, right?
- [01:51]
D
Yes, I'm. It's kind of a Canadian mafia situation.
- [01:55]
B
J.J. mcCall is a kind of a centrist Canadian YouTuber who does a lot of like, cultural YouTubes about like, you know, flags and. And meat and, you know, strange, like strangest foods you would have in a country and like fast food logos. Like, he does that. But he also does centrist pilled political commentary. So obviously.
- [02:17]
C
Well, that's very interesting to me because jreg, what I know about you is our producer Said he watched your videos and thought that they were really funny.
- [02:24]
B
And.
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C
And I checked out your Instagram and I saw a picture of you. We're going to throw it on screen right now, dressed like a clown. And I also know that you are running for mayor.
- [02:34]
D
I ran for mayor of Ottawa. I'm done with that.
- [02:38]
B
How did you do? How'd you finish?
- [02:40]
D
So I won. I won. But unfortunately the lizard people in charge, they kicked me out. They did a coup against me. So I crowned myself unofficial Anarcho monarch of Ottawa, Ontario. But.
- [02:53]
B
It was cheating. Was it a stop the steal situation?
- [02:57]
D
It was a stop the steal, but this time it was real and it was for me.
- [03:02]
C
Okay, so yeah, definitely have some questions there. We'll get back into the clown mare thing, but before that, Tim was just mentioning you guys were friends with this centrist guy. I did see somewhere that one of the primary targets of your satire is centrism. Would you say that that's an accuracy?
- [03:21]
D
Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. My whole thing is it was anti centrism. Now I go through different eras on my channel because I can't focus on things very long. So I switch it up. So right now I'm on my anti robot movement. But yeah, historically I keep it with.
- [03:36]
B
Me against the clankers. Okay, so just give us a little bit of what is your channel? Who are you? What were some of your interests in high school? Did you come out of your mother's womb or just sort of appear in Ottawa?
- [03:51]
D
Every time someone asks, who are you? I have a. I have like a psychotic break. So, you know, you said you saw four videos and like, I think that's, that's, that's, that's sort of the way I operate online is no one has time to watch. And I say so many contradictory things in the videos that like, everyone ends up having a sort of a different, you know, little scoop of we'll self.
- [04:11]
B
Actualize then, you know, rather than having a meta conversation about what other people think of you. What do you think of you?
- [04:20]
D
No one's ever asked me that before. What do I think of me? So, so, so my identity has been completely subsumed by the Internet and I don't have like an internal personal identity anymore. I simply exist as a sort of a fractal, an optical illusion, kind of a Mandelbrot test. And that's, that's the way I feel most comfortable existing because it alleviates me from the responsibilities of all the horrible things I've said.
- [04:44]
C
What are some horrible Things that you've said?
- [04:45]
D
Well, I don't know. I need to know. I need to know what things that you. Or reprehensible. And then I could probably pull that up.
- [04:51]
C
We have a pretty high tolerance for reprehensible on the show. We've said some things that other people would deem reprehensible. But what would you say, you think to be the least charming representation of your own values?
- [05:02]
B
Like if we were to say, J. Reg, right now, I have this video of you of saying this and I'm going to put it up on the screen. What would be the one video that you're like, please don't let it be that.
- [05:11]
D
It's probably When I interviewed J.J. mcCullough, he's a centrist and too many people came away from that conversation thinking that he was right. So I think that's been bad for the world. So, you know, obviously my job is to, you know, encourage as many radicals as possible. That was a misstep. I feel great shame about that.
- [05:29]
C
So it seems as though you are striking the balance that many satirists have to strike in life, which is figuring out when you are doing your bit and when you are not doing your bit. And I've said that a lot of people in this life, not just satirists, but a lot of human beings, develop something of a shtick for themselves, themselves, based on how they're perceived by others. And over time it kind of compounds and you become. You get so bought into your shtick that suddenly the line between your bit and your emotional truth gets so blurry that you don't always know when you are being true to yourself and when you are being true to your character. So when we're talking about you running for mayor and you're talking about lizard people stealing the election, that seems like the bit was taking the wheel. Whereas in other instances, do you feel as though you ever have any space from the bit or is it just bit, bit, bit, bit, bit?
- [06:20]
D
Yeah. So I think, you know, this is that very good point. And you know, you. Obviously, I think we're both Gen Z with this. That's kind of the premise of the show, the gen. A lot of Gen Z people, you'll see there's like all kinds of influencer people you can point to who are doing this post irony shtick, where they like have their irony and it's impossible to tell what they actually mean and what they. What they believe, what they really believe. And, you know, my artistic project is to sort of blend that as much as Possible. However, yeah, obviously I have a community here in Toronto, and if I was acting that way around my friends, I think they would kill me. I think they would beat me to death. So. And I think that would be fair. I would. I would be like, good job, guys, as they're beating me to death.
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B
So as an earnest millennial who liked the West Wing, you know, and just wants people to tell me what they really think and who's inspired by radical candor, I get deeply uncomfortable right now. So now I'm not even sure where to go with you.
- [07:18]
D
Okay, you know what? For the rest of this interview, I'll be completely sincere.
- [07:23]
B
Okay? I would love that. So explain to me why your peers do some anthropology for me. Why are you succeeding on YouTube? Why do your peers like the post irony bit? Is it just. It's a reaction against their older siblings like me, who were a little too cringe, or is there something more at play?
- [07:44]
D
Yeah, well, I think there's something to be said about the Gen Z sort of viewing sincerity as weakness. And I think that's. I, you know, I think. I think part of the commentary I try to do is. Is. Is show that it's important to be able to be sincere. And so I talk about something called irony poisoning, which is where irony becomes a sort of thing that you're not able to detach yourself from ever. So, you know, I just. I, you know, I pretty sincerely just told you I'm gonna. Because you're set. You were saying, like, you don't know how to interface with the bit. So I was like, okay, you know, screw it. I'll just. I can drop that. But I think a lot of people, they, like, don't know how to drop it. They don't know how to use it as a tool anymore. So I'm using, like, irony as, like, an artistic tool to, like, create certain optical illusions. But, like, I think it's also very important to be able to learn how to drop that in. And so if you. It's sort of like, if I have a hammer, is the hammer melded to my hand or not? And so to be able to, like, take the hammer off, use a different tool sometimes, that's. That's kind of important. Something you learn as you.
- [08:43]
B
But what. But is this a trauma response? Not to sound like a fucking lib, but, like, what. Like, what is underneath?
- [08:49]
D
Can I get my therapy from what is underneath?
- [08:53]
B
What's underneath? The post. The post irony appeal.
- [08:57]
D
I think a lot of irony poison zoomers are. I think there's A lot of things to care about when you're a young person online and, and there's, there's just like no way to like everything's so serious. It's overwhelming, you know, it's, it is overwhelming. It's hard. So it's like, I think you need some sort of way to detach yourself from, from all the things that are happening. I mean, again, I don't think I'll ever be able to capture why people get irony poisoned or why Gen Z uses irony because it's such a compl. There's so many aspects to it. I can speak for myself though, and I do think it's kind of like this is just an interesting, you know, way to do commentary on political stuff and maintain different sorts of audiences simultaneously because you're saying multiple things at the same time that appeal to like, different people who would otherwise hate each other. So. Yeah, I don't know.
- [09:41]
B
Cameron, what do you think about that? I mean, you like did the. Worked with the Birds Aren't Real guy and you know, you, your irony pilled a little bit. Like what, what do you think is. Explains the trend.
- [09:52]
C
JREG is correct to say that there's a bunch of different angles through which you can view this. Birds Aren't Real was very much powered by this sense of community. If you're the type of person who found that funny, then a like minded individual who was also bought into that shtick, you just have a, you speak to a similar sensibility and people are really looking for that type of community right now. So being able to find other people who find this farcical, wacky thing to be amusing. Well, suddenly you have something to talk about and it's something where you need to be a specific type of person to connect with it. Something like JREG style irony clown campaign for mayor, lizard people. I think it is for the people who engage with it and the people who participate in creating it. I think it's very much a defense mechanism because one of the ways that we deal with the cruelty of reality is by detaching ourselves from reality as a whole. Because if we can consider ourselves above the sort of inhibitions of having to live in the real world. And if we can elevate ourselves into this plane that is divorced from reality, suddenly we don't feel so bogged down by the trappings of this very, very dark reality. It's like, are you familiar with Daddy is Daddy ism or whatever the fuck it's called?
- [11:09]
D
Dadaism.
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B
Yeah, Daddy ism. I, I mean, I Have heard about that at the gay bar a few times. Sometimes people are starting to, to say that I'm into Daddy. I'm a, I'm part of Daddyism now. I'm a daddy against my will. Now, apparently at the gay bar, I.
- [11:24]
C
Hold space for that truth. We hold so much. We hold the whole galaxy for that truth. Dadaism and Jreg, correct me if I'm wrong, is just sort of this abstract form of engaging with larger cultural performance art.
- [11:42]
B
Oh, Dada. Like the art.
- [11:43]
D
Yeah, yeah, got it.
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B
Okay. Sorry, it took me a minute. I got, I wish it was Daddy ism.
- [11:48]
C
There's a sense of nihilism there. I don't think it's like black pill nihilism. I think it's more, I think it's more artistic than that and it's a form of expression. But I do think that there's something young people connect to about the idea of instead of surrendering to this very, very uncomfortable and the world that bogs us down and makes us devalue ourselves, we say, okay, you know what world? I am going to say fuck you to, to the world. I'm gonna stick it to you by engaging with a completely farcical, nonsensical view of the world. Because now I don't have to accept the fact that life kind of sucks. Jreg, would you say that I've got a decent idea of it?
- [12:30]
D
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I think a lot of what you're saying, the contours of it there, is very true. I think there's other ways that this kind of stuff is applied and used, but I think that's a big part of it. Like, what you're describing is like a very big part of it, for sure. I, you know, I guess the only thing I'd add to that is like, I think some of the farcical views of the world that emerge are based off of just like, you know, how do we, how do young people get information? It's like online edutainment stuff. So it's like, if someone's like, people, A lot of people got it, got into politics for my content and they look at my content. It's like a dopaminergic political compass. Right? And so you look at that and you think, ah, this is how politics works. It's not how politics works, obviously. It's much more about the local level and, you know, these weird contradictions of, of, you know, the municipal race or whatever. But, you know, you do get people into politics like that. And Then their, their framework has sort of been immediately poisoned by the, by this wretched chart. So, I mean, I think that's also part of it.
- [13:29]
C
One more thing I would add to that is I think a lot of people further to the left and right are quicker to engage with stuff like this because the idea of something so, so unserious being popular. Like, what are the serious people doing? The serious people are Hakeem Jeffries pissing his pants trying to explain why he won't endorse Zoran Mamdani for mayor when the answer is he's taking AI PAC money. The serious people are the Democrats who are memeing their way through an authoritarian takeover that they cannot oppose with any meaningful opposition. Like, the people who are serious. The people who are qualified are not meeting the moment. And I think that there's a large cultural desire to do away with them because the understandings that we have of who is qualified to be a leader in our culture have given us these people who are so fucking flaccid and inert that we say, fuck the qualifications. Fuck the Bain consulting Ivy League pricks. Look where they've gotten us.
- [14:29]
D
Yeah, and I think I tell your point. I think, I think that's why I'm, you know, I'm not a. I'm not a nihilist. When I, When I do this kind of stuff, there's a. Everything I say has like this sort of truth. I'm exaggerating. And so sometimes it's an emotional truth.
- [14:42]
B
I'm sorry to just be like, so reductive. But like, to me, the phones, like this comes down to the phones. I know the original Dadaists, you know, duchamp Grosch, you know, they didn't have any phones because the 1880s, but now, so, you know, maybe there's a through line, but like, I think that you. That simultaneously you guys have too much bad information. Being like, you're bombarded with like, the human brain was not made to consume this level of bad information. Like, having to care about all these things at once. Like, and having to know what everybody's opinion is about everything at once. Like, we aren't wired like this. Maybe we will be wired eventually as we, you know, reach the singularity, but, like, right now we're not. And so I think that here on Cameron's a defense mechanism. I don't know if the exact right word, but like, response mechanism to that is part of it. But then the other thing is you're getting all this information. So, you know, to Cameron's point about how the leaders are bad. Like, you know too much about the leaders too. Like you know too much about each other and you know too much about the news. And you also know too much about the leaders. Right? Like back in the day, if you grew up in the 70s, like the leaders weren't great. Like they weren't exactly crushing it, you know, in the 70s. But like, you know, there was only the nightly news. You only learned about it an hour a day. There was a lot of propaganda propping up what they were doing. And, and so, you know, like, it's not like the leaders just got inert recently, but. But how inert they are has been projected into people's like conscious. I feel like a lot more intensely by them though.
- [16:23]
C
It's, it's been projected into our conscious by them. Like nobody like forced Hakeem Jeffries to post a picture with a baseball bat as if that was going to make Gen Z men vote for Democrats again. Like these people are begging us to disrespect them by going on these humiliation tours where I don't understand how young people are supposed to respect institutions. I mean, you talk about bad information, how we're getting so much bad information. What's the good information at this point? Like the Republicans, Republican guy on the Abby Phillips CNN debate show, like espousing talking points that frankly don't even sound like Fox News. They sound like fucking real America now or whatever the fuck the far right people are watching. Like what? Like forget bad information. What is information? What are we? Except for Bulwark, which if you are watching this video, leave a comment down below. What? Your favorite episode of FYpod is excluded. Subscribe to Bulwark Plus. Bulwark plus is a great subscription. I don't have it, but I should frankly get it for free.
- [17:22]
B
I guess the information would be like, I don't know, reading the newspaper, which is something that people did in 1974, you know, where it wasn't. Everything in there wasn't perfect, but it was just a more nuanced, boring, boring. What do you think? Is it the phones?
- [17:37]
C
I do think it's them damn phones.
- [17:38]
D
It's the kids these days.
- [17:39]
B
Should we get rid of the phones?
- [17:42]
C
The kids? The grown ups aren't reading the newspapers anymore either.
- [17:45]
B
Yeah, no, the old people are the worst. They're not. They're just doing Facebook memes now. Do do. But what do you think? Should that be a sub political culture for you? Just you're doing anti robot now. Maybe it should just Be anti phone.
- [17:58]
D
So I know people wonder how thin to slice this baloney. You know, obviously I'm anti clanker. If I see a robot walking around, I will hate crime it. Obviously, I'll, you know, smash its head in and take the brain out and put it into a simulation of pain because it's an abomination against God. But when it comes to phones, you know, I kind of leave it more ambiguous. It's like, if to you a phone is a clanker, go smash it. But I'm not going to Virtue Signal and say, I never use these. The. I never use technology because we have to use technology in order to survive right now. So stream. It's kind of like, you know, dream.
- [18:28]
B
Or die kind of, you know, stream or die.
- [18:31]
D
Exactly. I mean, you know that leftist meme.
- [18:32]
C
Where it's like, no, he doesn't.
- [18:34]
D
Yeah, he wouldn't. Right. You claim to hate society and yet you participate in it. It's kind of.
- [18:39]
B
I do know that.
- [18:40]
C
Oh, is that a leftist meme?
- [18:42]
D
Yeah. Well, because it's like critiquing the iPhone, Bad Venezuela, million, billion dead kind of vibe of like, oh, well, you claim to hate capitalism, but you use iPhone. Kind of the same thing with technology, except you claim to hate technology, and yet you use technology. Wait, why is my package ticking? Kaboom. So. So, yeah, that's kind of what. That's kind of how I. What I think about.
- [19:03]
C
Yeah, it's. It's as you're pointing out, by the way, I'm. Yes, anding you. It's different with a lot of the clankers. Another. Another slur that we use here on fypod for them is spark donkeys.
- [19:14]
D
Oh, I like that.
- [19:16]
C
A lot of the spark donkey type stuff, like, you don't need to order your fucking doordash from one of the machines where it's like one of those coolers with wheels that you see driving down there. Tim, you've seen the coolers with wheels, right?
- [19:30]
B
The butt snorkeling.
- [19:32]
C
The butt snorkeling?
- [19:35]
B
No. Is that not right? I don't know.
- [19:38]
C
What the fuck is butt snorkeling? There's these robots jockeys. There are these robots. Dante's gonna throw a picture of one up right now. There are robots on wheels that will deliver food to people. And I see them in Los Angeles and they've got a camera and they're being operated by somebody. There's this, like, big depot at some university of people who are just sitting behind a computer and driving these robots around to doordash. And like, you know, you don't. You don't need to participate in that kind of society. You don't need to be making AI anime childlike girlfriends for yourself using grok. Like, there is a degree to which we can be shaming people for participating in something like an iPhone is how you participate in society. But many forms of technology and robotics right now, we can apply that shame to people and we can humiliate them the way that they deserve.
- [20:30]
D
Hell yeah.
- [20:30]
B
Brother Jreg, I want to ask you about you mentioned earlier. I guess maybe this is not true. So I don't know. You didn't really give a coherent origin story, which I like. It creates a man of mystery type.
- [20:42]
D
I'm like the Joker you see from the movie Joker.
- [20:45]
B
Got it. Which one? Who's your favorite Joker of all the jokers?
- [20:48]
D
The sad guy, the sad one.
- [20:51]
B
Which one was the sad.
- [20:52]
D
The Joker that he only laughs because it's a mental disorder. That guy.
- [20:57]
B
Is that the Joaquin Phoenix?
- [20:59]
C
Yeah.
- [21:00]
B
Who's your favorite Joker?
- [21:02]
C
My favorite Joker by far is Mark Hamill in the animated versions. Mark Hamill, who played Luke Skywalker in Star wars, does an unfathomably. Have you seen.
- [21:12]
B
We love Mark Hamill and honor him. He's a big sport of the bulwark, by the way. But come on over Jack Nicholson over Heath.
- [21:17]
C
Yeah. Well, I think Heath Ledger's Joker is like an unbelievably captivating performance. Top 10 movie performances of all time. But I'm such a big fan of the comic books that the way that Mark Hamill's Joker captures the essence of the character is so effective to me. Whereas Heath Ledger, I think of him as one of the best movie characters of all time, but I barely think of him as the Joker because he's very much. Not really married to the comic book character, but okay.
- [21:42]
B
I guess the most kids don't know.
- [21:44]
C
Anything about visceral depiction of the Joker that impacted me the most as a movie character was Heath Ledger. Is that what you want me to fucking say?
- [21:51]
D
I love getting yelled at by an old man. And it's so vindicating. This is why relationships are so important. Yes. I'm on the Daddy ism.
- [22:01]
C
New name for FYpod.
- [22:06]
B
I wanted to ask you about the Ideology Ball, speaking of daddyism, and I think that was one of your things that got you attention in the political Internet. Maybe that's wrong.
- [22:17]
D
I'm sort of a progenitor of the Ideology Ball thing.
- [22:21]
B
Progenitor of the Ideology Ball thing. Congratulations on that. So if you really don't know. One of the interesting things I wanted to hear you kind of analyze for us, in character or out, is about how Gen Z, people that are very online and interested in politics, the ideologies have been. You don't just have anymore. I am a neocon Republican and I am a neoliberal Democrat and I am a Socialist. There's a lot of these subgenres and they build on each other and well, just talk about that whole concept.
- [22:55]
D
So this is something you might like.
- [22:57]
B
Tim is.
- [22:57]
D
JJ's thinking about doing a parody of. Of all the chart slop, like political compass stuff where he says, okay, here's my theory of politics. So here you have the Democrats and here you have this ideology called the Republicans. And there's just two balls.
- [23:13]
B
People love the charts. The kids love the charts of the rankings. I like to rank things. It's the thing that's the most Gen Z about me. I love to tear things. I'm all about tears.
- [23:20]
D
It stimulates your dopamine.
- [23:22]
B
Yeah. People like to take quizzes and see where their little, where their little dot is on the chart and see if they fit.
- [23:28]
D
I think part of the, I guess the, you know, tension between me and JJ ideologically is like, I'm very interested in adding, in exploring new ways of political thought where people's heads are at, in a very like kind of pure sense, kind of disconnected from the material situation of, you know, specific politicians. I'm like, okay, in an ideal world, what kind of things are people wanting and how that shifts over time? Because on the Internet, and I'm much more focused on the Internet than I am on like local municipal politics sometimes, you know, this is where JJ balances me out. But like, I'm much more focused on like the abstract ideals. And so these political balls are ways of like encapsulating complex ideologies. Like, are you, you know, maybe you're like a Catholic and you follow Catholic social teachings, so you're somewhat left wing economically, but you're still like a Catholic. So you're a little bit right wing culturally because you want things to like, be cohesive. And there's all these different. There's thousands and thousands of these political balls. Everything from Marxist Leninism to stuff people make up like a narco monarcho, fascist, communo nazbol, blah, blah, blah. And it's just we had an.
- [24:33]
C
We had an anarcho communist on our first FYBOD episode ever. Our first FYPOD episode was a military veteran hot bisexual influencer who Identifies as an anarcho communist. And for that you got to hand it to him.
- [24:47]
D
Very nice. Wait, what was their name? I asked because I might know them.
- [24:50]
B
Dylan Guy.
- [24:50]
C
Dylan Geik.
- [24:51]
D
Dylan Geik. Okay, I have to look into this.
- [24:53]
B
I wonder how small that ball is. You know, the military, the militaristic anarcho communist. Is that a big ball or a small ball?
- [25:00]
C
How popular is the far right in Canada compared to the United States?
- [25:06]
D
It's got, you know, I think, I think Canada tends to lag behind America, which is to say like far right. There's, It'll, it'll come. I mean, it'll come anywhere but.
- [25:15]
C
And do you think their big thing is going to be immigration too? Because I do see conservatives in Canada pissed off about immigration.
- [25:21]
D
And yes, you get a lot of anti Indian hate on the Canadian, on the Canadian Twitter for the far right.
- [25:27]
C
You get it here too.
- [25:28]
D
Yeah, yeah. But I think it's especially Canadians because we do, we have had something like that's been our top immigrant group for the last six years or so. So yeah, there's like, that's, that's kind of the backlash.
- [25:39]
B
Canadians exploring any new like slurs against the Indians? Are there any creative scene?
- [25:45]
D
I've seen, I've seen some, some new slurs.
- [25:47]
B
Yes, you have. Do you want to rank them? You want to tier list them for us? So look. Hey everyone.
- [25:53]
C
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- [27:28]
D
Look, I'm a humano supremacist, okay? I think, I think racism is vile and I think that we need to come together as human beings against robots and be racist against robots. Obviously, we all have racist inclinations and we should, we should channel that towards the bot who is our true common enemy.
- [27:43]
C
I've never had a racist thought in my life, but I really did. Just never once. I've never even seen color. But I did just think about how if you called yourself a humano supremacist, I was like, oh, what a. I love that term. That's something I'm going to self identify as as well. But then I was like, I feel like if you said that in front of a vegan, so that, that, that's.
- [28:01]
D
Part of Humano supremacy is like, I know I like animal anti veganism. I like animals. I don't like animals suffering, but I don't, I don't like animal suffering because it makes me as a human feel bad and other humans feel bad. So let's, let's, let's make sure we get our heads screwed on straight here. Okay? I forgot what we were talking about.
- [28:19]
B
I'm also a humanoid supremacist. I was asking you to rank the Indian slurs. Yeah, not going to do that though. It was just an idea. I was just trying to get you into. We're just trying to create, you know, some content for TikTok, some content for.
- [28:32]
C
Us to email to Media Matters.
- [28:33]
B
I think the Chinese would be fine with it.
- [28:36]
D
Maybe this feels, maybe this would be interesting to you guys. The. There's a far right protest happening in just down the street from my studio. There is like, there's a group that's doing mass deportations now. Stop immigration. It's a Canadian group, so that's, that's very.
- [28:55]
C
How popular? First of all, I can't believe you have a studio and you decide to call into this interview completely backlit.
- [29:02]
D
But second of all, yeah, well, see, I Almost didn't. I almost didn't put this mic here. I almost just did my, my audio coming from my laptop speaker.
- [29:11]
C
No, no, no, I appreciate, I appreciate the effort. I was going to say, how much support does this have right now in the Canadian government in terms of where their right is at? Because I feel like they were.
- [29:22]
D
No, no, I mean, there's this guy, Maxine Bernier from the PPC and he's to the right of Pierre Polyevre who is the. Sorry, the current. The current. You know, he was like the, he was right wing populish, so he would like hang out with the truckers and stuff. He'd meet up with like Diagon, who was like this far right group. But you know, you can just tell looking at Pierre that he's kind of a dork and he's not. He's not cool enough to be a Nazi. So yeah, I'd say, I'd say there's this guy who's further to the right and he's really pushing the Trump style nasty portion.
- [29:56]
C
And that's Pierre?
- [29:57]
D
No, no, that's. That's Maxime Bernier who's from the ppc. So that's the far right party.
- [30:03]
B
Here is like a Paul Ryan type figure. Here is like a Mike Johnson. Maybe you. I want to stuff him in a locker.
- [30:11]
C
Does he know how to lift like Paul Ryan?
- [30:13]
B
No, no. You know, like a bot Mike Johnson, he's just like a nerdy like 1980s Republican.
- [30:21]
D
His, his aura is, is, is extremely nerdy and dweeby. I will say he could be like shrimpier. Like he's, he's not, he's not, not jacked like he, he probably works out a little bit. So I'll give him.
- [30:33]
B
Oh, really? You think Pierre looks. Have we seen do. Is there any shirtless pictures of him on the Internet?
- [30:37]
D
Let's. You know what? This is a good, this is a.
- [30:38]
C
Good opportunity style horse. Oh my God, it was. I forgot until now that Putin had the shirtless horse picks. Tim, just quick aside.
- [30:48]
B
Yeah.
- [30:48]
C
I've asked you a couple times what it was like sort of behind the scenes with the Republicans when certain things happen.
- [30:54]
B
Happy to feel those.
- [30:55]
C
What were the conversations you guys were having the day the Paul Ryan workout picks dropped?
- [30:59]
B
I gotta tell you, I'm embarrassed to answer this question because the truth is that around the office in 2012, around the Romney Ryan office, the predominant view was that they were like, was kind of cool. Was like awesome. It was like, look, it was awesome. It was like this young guy's like lifting, he's got muscles, he's jacked. And like, this is. And like, I, I was like bullied into not sharing my real view. I was kind of an outsider on the Romney campaign because I had worked against him in the primary. And so sometimes I, I had to pick and choose my spots where I'd, where I'd weigh in. And so I kind of kept to myself that I thought it was very uncomfortable.
- [31:40]
C
Did people in Romney world think that he had any sort of attractiveness appeal? Were they like, oh, we got this handsome young guy.
- [31:46]
B
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.
- [31:47]
C
But Romney was so much hotter.
- [31:49]
B
Romney looks great. I mean, Romney, like you would think he does, like Peter Thiel does this thing where he's like, I'm putting twink blood into my body. Like I'm transfusing twink blood into my body to look younger. And yet at age like 54 or whatever, he looks like he's, he's like rotting away like a skeleton, like whatever, like he's put in. He's used all of the money in the world to have to look youthful and to find the fountain of youth and he, and he looks like a vampire and he literally looks like he's rotting. And yet Mitt Romney, all he does is just drink milk every day. And he's like 78 and he looks amazing. His skin looks great. He doesn't moisturize.
- [32:28]
D
Nobody told these tech guys that what keeps you youthful is having a good human soul. And they, they thought it was the Brian Johnson style 120 supplements and vampirism. So someone needs to, someone needs to tell these guys, can you guys think.
- [32:43]
C
Of like a sexier presidential duel than Obama, Romney? Because those two guys can fucking get it. And I don't know if there's ever been a circumstance where two better looking guys have run against each other.
- [32:56]
B
Let's see. Young Nixon versus Kennedy.
- [32:59]
C
Young Nixon was hot.
- [33:00]
D
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [33:02]
B
He was all right, though. He was all right. I mean, you know, he had a little bit of a little something.
- [33:06]
C
I'm thinking of reading those. You know, the 6,000 page Lyndon B. Johnson saga in those books. Yeah, Caro, yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of reading those. He seems like an interesting character.
- [33:17]
B
You should do that. We're off target. Jreg. We had two things we're looking to you to follow up on. One, is there any shirtless pictures of Pierre Poliev?
- [33:27]
D
Oh, yeah, I did. I did find one. It's him shaking hands with, with an older man. And you can see his bicep is pretty defined, I think. I think people think he's dorkier than he is because of his aura, personality, every, like his soul. Like he, he should be a dork, but clearly he's one of these dorks that like, when you realize you're a dork, you like, in a very dorky way, try to fix that by working out in kind of like an autistic manner. So, yeah, that's, that's kind of the vibe I'm getting on the tyranny.
- [33:54]
B
Okay. And then I want to get just back into the Gen Z ideological map and dividing. And so I guess what I'm trying to understand, since you spend a lot of time like monitoring these subcultures, what is an observation you have about the Gen Z political brain? That might be something that people who do not spend any time in weird online subcultures might not know.
- [34:15]
D
Hmm. I mean, there is a lot. I think the main thing is probably it's defined by a sort of attention deficit disorder of being like, you know, having access to the phone and being completely distracted all of the time that like, the information that ends up trickling in is packaged in the most entertaining way possible. And so like, that's why we don't read the newspaper. It's because the newspaper isn't flashing colors at me if I had to pick one.
- [34:43]
B
So what impact is that? But like, you talked about radicals and do you think that is, is making younger people more attracted to like, extreme ideologies? Do you think it's.
- [34:55]
D
Yeah, well, it's more attractive. It's simultaneously radicalizing and black pilling because you see all these different ideologies, you have, you have choice paralysis from being able to pick about a billion different ones. And then you, it's sort of like, it's like, it's much easier to be religious when you don't know about all the other religions and have to like, contend with the different logical frameworks competing. I think, I think it's simultaneously, it is radicalizing. And I think a lot of people do like, start off pretty radical as kids and then they moderate a little bit, but they're still like, you know, they're still in there.
- [35:29]
B
Do you think we're getting close to a backlash point where neoliberalism is cool again? Do you think we're a little ways away from that?
- [35:35]
D
So my theory of the Overton window is it's shattered down the middle and it's drifting to the left and right simultaneously. So neoliberal centrism is now outside of The Overton window. Which is why someone like jj, it's very strange. You know, I look at this guy and like, wait, you're. You're like a neoliberal centrist and you think the status quo is good? That's so strange because no one thinks like that anymore. So I think as. As things have gotten more extreme, the being. Being in the dead center has become more like, outside of the Overton window.
- [36:03]
B
It's the most hopeful thing anyone has ever said on the Bulwark YouTube page. Sorry, Cameron, go ahead, ahead.
- [36:08]
C
Oh, I was just gonna say, like, I think that the strong left wing candidate is going to be the best chance to beat whoever they put up in 2028. I'm not supremely convinced it's going to be J.D. vance. I think J.D. vance, we were talking about a bit and a shtick and getting really into the bit in the shtick earlier, and I think everyone's hyping up JD as part of their Donald Trump. Can I say cock sucking? Will we get demonetized if I say cock sucking?
- [36:35]
B
You will not.
- [36:36]
C
Okay, sorry.
- [36:36]
B
I don't know. J. Reg, have you. Do you get demonetized for sucking?
- [36:39]
D
I can say cock sucking all I like on you.
- [36:41]
C
Okay, sorry. The f. Slur demonetizes. So I thought maybe that. Anyway, I think it's just part of the Trump cocksucking of it all. Like, I think that come 2028, the Republican nominee is going to be the most inflammatory right wing person in a way that J.D. ultimately, as somebody with a brown wife and brown children, is just not going to be able to get the white supremacists excited about him. You already see white supremacist Twitter people freaking out about JD Being a minority. Quote, being a minority in his own household.
- [37:10]
D
Yeah.
- [37:11]
C
They say JD Is a minority in his own house. Could you imagine? I've seen memes about that. But I was going to say, I think someone progressive is going to be by far the strongest contender in 2028. And I think that a lot of the centrists are need to reconcile with that information. Yeah, but I think.
- [37:28]
B
I think you need to reconcile with something. This is totally off off topic, but you brought it up. And so J. Reg just gets to watch. I would like for you to name a unapologetically progressive candidate who has actually won an election, demonstrated they could win an election in a place like, I don't know, Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan. You know, places where we need to win elections if the Democrats want to win. Has the model been proven anywhere?
- [38:00]
C
Here's what I'll say to that. Of the contenders that we're currently seeing, I think that the biggest issue progressives and centrists face overall is the way they're saying what they're saying, not what they're saying. And I think populism was going to be incredibly popular somewhere like the South. I think talking about affordability is going to be incredibly popular somewhere like Pennsylvania or Michigan. I think the problem is what I started saying was that I think centrists are going to have a leg up in a way that they didn't in 2024, because the centrists who try to maintain the status quo, that doesn't work for people, they can pull nostalgia strings and say, let's go back to that status quo from before Trump Volume two, because things were so much better back then. But, you know, then you remember that in 2024, Harris, one of the things she suffered from was saying the past four years have actually been good.
- [38:52]
B
Sort of, oh, yeah, you can't do that. You can't do that.
- [38:54]
C
So. But I think that things will be so bad at that point.
- [38:57]
B
I want to create a ball for myself which is radical anti Biden centrism. I feel like radical anti Biden, extreme anti Biden centrism.
- [39:08]
D
Okay.
- [39:09]
B
Yeah. Attacking Biden from within, it's like kind of attacking from within. Right.
- [39:14]
D
You could. You could draw that ball right now.
- [39:16]
B
Yeah. You separate yourself from the establishment. You know, I'm an anti Biden establishment centrist.
- [39:22]
C
What's the status of progressives, or at least what would be considered Democrats in the United States, in Canada right now? Is it a strong coalition?
- [39:31]
D
Oh, it's awful. It's. It's a catastrophe. It's. It's like a disaster. It's like the. I've never. I've never seen the left so weak and scattered and impotent. It's like, it's. It's pretty.
- [39:42]
B
Why do you think that is?
- [39:43]
D
Because the. The, like, the Mark Carney is the Prime Minister is the bulwark.
- [39:48]
B
Carney is kind of of like the most bulwarky of all world leaders.
- [39:52]
D
Absolutely.
- [39:53]
B
Bulwark Pill, McCone and Carney are the most bulwarky world.
- [39:56]
D
Yeah, it's a status quo centrist nightmare in Canada.
- [40:00]
B
You have to give it to Macron, actually, because, I mean, if you're married.
- [40:03]
C
To, you know, I mean, someone who is your teacher. Did you know that?
- [40:10]
B
That's pretty bulky. Anyway. Sorry. Okay.
- [40:12]
C
So did you know that Macron's wife was his teacher?
- [40:15]
B
I Did know that, yeah, the NDP.
- [40:16]
D
Lost a bunch of seats in the last election and that's our leftist party. And the NDP was basically like they did not do the proper rhetoric, like they were not an exciting party to support. It was a lot of just sort of propping up what the Liberals were doing. And the Liberals are like arguably not even a left wing party. So I have questions though. I have two questions. I have a question for each of you. Cameron.
- [40:39]
B
Okay, not your show, but I just.
- [40:43]
D
You know, give me five minutes. Cameron, do you think that because to me it seems like it is inevitable that the Democrats will swing populist left and that'll be, that'll be exciting. Do you think that's inevitable or do you think it's like it's very possible that you'll just get neoliberal centrist and for the rest of your life?
- [41:00]
C
I think that there will be a tremendous schism and I think that a lot of Democrats are going to have to reconcile with the fact that running as someone who would in Europe be considered a conservative is not going to be successful. Tim, to what you were saying about.
- [41:14]
B
Who is run as what would be in Europe would be a conservative. That is such bullshit. The Democrats would outrun anybody that would qualify as a conservative party in Europe. In France, Macron ran against a crypto Nazi. Macron ran against a crypto Nazi. There are anti immigrant parties now all over Europe are the right. The Democrats have not run a conservative.
- [41:35]
C
I'm not talking about the neo Nazis that Benjamin Netanyahu is friends with. I'm talking about someone who would be considered what in America is a conservative if they were in Europe. Because in the United States if you.
- [41:45]
B
Call that doesn't exist in the U.S.
- [41:47]
C
If you call for what it for Medicare for all, you are branded as a leftist communist. Whereas in Europe if you call for Medicare for all, you are considered.
- [41:55]
B
That's on the narrow issue of health care, like there's a bunch of other issues that support abortion.
- [42:02]
D
I'm jumping in. I had a second question.
- [42:06]
C
Mom and dad.
- [42:07]
B
Cameron. I'm sorry. Cameron, finish the answer.
- [42:09]
C
The my answer ties to what Tim had said earlier, which is name progressive who can win in a state like that. And what I would say is progressives very often struggle to find good candidates at all. Very often candidates who can seem as though they're going to be a bastion of progressive values end up being a tremendous fucking disaster. Andrew Gillum in Florida was somebody that a lot of my friends were excited about. And then Andrew and then that became like a huge humiliation for the already humiliating Democratic Party. Not that you know, Charlie Crist was doing much for us.
- [42:40]
B
He was doing gay hookers with meth. That's right. Wasn't that him?
- [42:44]
C
I don't remember what.
- [42:44]
B
And by the way, I honor hookers and whatever people want to do in their personal life. But it was.
- [42:49]
C
Yeah, but it just, it wasn't a good look for sure. But I think about and my sort of seed of hope there is sort of, you look at, I think the most popular any Democrats have been since the second Trump administration started was when you saw Bernie and AOC drawing giant fucking crowds in red districts. Bernie and AOC were getting an insane amount of people to turn up for them, including middle aged white mothers who are very often bulwark moderates. They saw fighters and they saw people who are willing to actually oppose. So I think that someone who can frame themselves as a fighter, a progressives, can have an easier time doing it because the moderates right now are failing to put up a fight. So I do believe that someone who is more populist and focused on left wing economic matters will have to be.
- [43:40]
B
The question was, is it inevitable? Do you think it's inevitable that the populist left takes over the Democratic Eventually.
- [43:45]
A
Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check.
- [43:48]
B
Whoa. When did I get here?
- [43:49]
A
What do you mean?
- [43:50]
C
I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana Online. I must have time traveled to the future.
- [43:56]
A
It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.
- [44:00]
C
It is the future.
- [44:02]
B
It's.
- [44:03]
A
It's the present. And just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.
- [44:07]
C
It's all good.
- [44:07]
B
Happens all the time.
- [44:09]
A
Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pick up. Times may vary and fees may apply.
- [44:17]
E
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- [45:16]
C
No, but I do think that with every year you're going to see less and less young people being Lakshya Jane, one of the contributors to our side channel Style Moderates. Because moderates have not given young people a reason to vote for them.
- [45:32]
D
Okay, I agree.
- [45:33]
B
So I agree it's not inevitable.
- [45:36]
D
Okay, so then my question, my question for Tim then is like I think a lot about the sort of never trump centrists who have found a home with the Democratic Party, but it seems to me that it would be a nightmare if for you, you would be completely politically homeless. Right.
- [45:54]
B
If not really, Because I get this question a lot. If we're going to do European comparative politics, which I obviously am very happy to do and ready to go toe to toe with Cameron on any minute now. I get this a lot and I'm like, oh, oh, you mean we're going to have to make a choice between whether we want a Swedish style social democracy or Hungarian authoritarianism. Oh, that's such a tough call for me. What am I going to do? Do I want, do I want Erdogan or do I want the Finnish lady?
- [46:26]
D
Right.
- [46:26]
B
It's not that hard. Like I, so I, I would happily vote for AOC over J.D. vance. I don't, I would like for that not to be my choice. But like I don't, I don't really think that's that close of a call.
- [46:36]
D
Okay, what about if we made a third party that Elon Musk was running for the true center.
- [46:41]
B
Yeah. Wouldn't that flow you? I think that people that are more conservative than me. I've always said that actual conservative never trumpers. I was always a moderate, squish, whatever. So it wasn't really that big of a smooth for me. I moved from this side of the line that divided the parties over to this side. But if you're on this side but you don't like Trump that crew, it is tough for them, I think. And I think they're just gonna be politically homeless for a long time because I just don't think anybody's really interested in what they're selling. We're about to lose. Cameron, I wanna ask you jreg about the schism among the youth between the like woke leftists, the identity woke leftists and like the anti woke populist leftists. So I want to ask you that But Cameron has to. Anytime. I don't know if you know this, but Cameron is like one of America's most foremost school shooting survivors. I did that. Anytime there's a school shooting. Lots of phone calls for Cameron.
- [47:32]
C
Everybody retroactively tune in to today's MSNBC segment where I'm going to be saying some very sad and dark things.
- [47:40]
B
But before we lose you, Cameron, I just wanted to ask you, like, how does that make you feel? I just want to like, what are you, are you excited to go on Ms. CBC right now? Are you sad? Are you mad that people call you? Like, what's the right way to deal with this?
- [47:50]
C
It's definitely this dark thing. Largely because so much of what traumatized my friends and I after the shooting was the fact that the traumatic things we experienced during the shooting were then just put under a microscope and also attached to an amplifier. So the media of it all sort of. It's like when we had Robert Chentrup, whose sister was killed at my high school on our last interview, which everybody ought to watch because it was really great. You asked him such a great question, which was tell us a little bit about Carmen, his sister. And it just occurred to me when you said that, I was like, oh my God, I can't believe I didn't remember to ask him that. But I'm just so used to talking about this and I'm so used to being in parkland and living within this reality that it like, Robert's been my friend for so many years. I've experienced the loss of Carmen alongside him. You know, I've been there to talk to him about it and everything that when we were doing this video, I was like, yeah, dude, we got Robert on Bulwark. It didn't even occur to me to have him share the story of his sister who's such a great person who passed away. So I think doing this type of thing brings back a lot of feelings that are very uncomfortable. But my cynical answer is when I see other people go on to talk about this, I fucking hate what they say and I think that they get it wrong. So I, in this very self serving and proto narcissistic way, I'm happy to get these calls when these shootings happen, mostly because I trust me to say things that I think people ought to hear more than I trust the other people I see. But I kind of sound like a douchebag saying that. And I'm sorry, I will say that.
- [49:26]
B
For you next time I try because I trust you to do it too. And it sounds better coming from me, so. And people retroactively will put up your MSNBC hit on the FY pod spin off page. People can go to. People go watch that if they're just seeing this jreg.
- [49:38]
C
So nice meeting you, man. Thanks for joining. Tim. I'll talk to you later.
- [49:41]
B
All right. After that mass shooting interlude, we have two other things to get to. Well, what is. So talk to me about that. This is where I feel like you're asking about the never Trumper mindset. And I do think some people are like, you guys will be so pissed if AOC takes over. That's a very normal question for like somebody to ask. And I feel like a lot of times you are surprised and I'm like, it's not my cup of tea. It's not what I would pick.
- [50:03]
D
It's not super surprising because I've asked JJ the same question. I think he's on the same wavelength.
- [50:07]
B
Yeah. That said, I feel like out of touch with the intra leftist fighting. I feel like I have a pretty good bead on the neoliberal establishment left and what they think the intro leftist fighting is sometimes hard for me to get into. So what is like your view on that? It seems like that is happening. Right? Like, there's a view of the young left that are like, we should just. It should just be class war all the way down. Then there's another group that's still very much into like land acknowledgments and like all that kind of shit. Like, what's your sense for who's gaining steam and losing steam and how that fight's breaking down?
- [50:42]
D
You know, I suspect you, you already understand the big picture of the infighting and, you know, you can get into the minutiae and it's. I don't know. Yeah, I don't even know how helpful it is, but like, I don't know, there's like a million ways you can, you can look at it. Like, I understood. I'm releasing a video today about like left NIMBYs versus left YIMBYs, which I think you'd find interesting because you're more in the, you're more like the, like, I know neoliberals fucking love housing.
- [51:05]
B
We love you.
- [51:06]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and so like, you know, the left NIMBY is, is obviously someone who's like against gentrification because it's going to, you know, displace minorities and vulnerable people. So like, that's one example of, of infighting. And then like you said, yeah, the anti Woke versus woke left. And then you know, I'm, I think.
- [51:27]
B
The energy is among like the streamers and like the, like you're kind of in that world a little bit more than I am as far as like monitoring what else is happening out there and other. I don't even know all the platforms anymore. Like on the disc discords and on the twitches and all. Like where do you think the energy is?
- [51:43]
D
Yeah, I think the energy is that. I think, I think like the, you know, there was a vibe shift and the woke politics is probably more on its way out and I don't think it's like, I don't. I think like someone like Zoran Mamdami who was talking about class. I think that's was very exciting for a lot of people on the left and you know, sort of trying to like not like not, not saying slurs but you know, not exactly, not exactly forefront woke liberal kind of stuff that people associate with, with, with, with the woke left. I'd say, I'd say the energy is probably more on. In terms of like get a, get a, get a far left, get a further left candidate that's anti Israel and a very pro class war and stuff like that.
- [52:35]
B
Who is the, who is the Zoran of like the YouTube world? Like, who is like who's the hot new hotness? Who's an up and comer that I shouldn't monitor that? I don't know.
- [52:45]
D
I don't know. It's. It's. I really like, I hate all these streamer guys. Like, especially because they're like they've been around for so long. Like I can't really give you a more relevant example than Hasan who you're already familiar with.
- [52:58]
B
I'm sure there's nobody else. There's nobody.
- [53:00]
D
I mean, how do you want. Okay, there's this guy. This is a personal favorite of mine. His name is Hawes.
- [53:08]
B
He is a H O S H.
- [53:10]
D
O Z. H H A Z. Okay. And he is, he is a self described tanky. So he calls himself a tanky.
- [53:16]
B
Oh no.
- [53:17]
D
And so, so you think Hassan might be a tanky? No, no, no, no, no. Ha's Haas is the tankiest of the tankies.
- [53:23]
B
Oh my God.
- [53:24]
D
And he like is full supportive of, of, of Russia, full supportive of China, full supportive of.
- [53:31]
B
And he has viewers. People watch this.
- [53:34]
D
He has viewers. He's not like, he's not as, he's not nearly as big as Hassan, but I would say, you know, keep an eye on him. He's. He was part of the group that created the acp, the American Communist Party. And they're the sorts of people who would. Who would say slurs and be communist at the same time. So it's like a. It's like, it's like right wing to far right wing cultural values, far left wing economic values. And I, you know, this is the kind of stuff that gets my dopamine firing because it's like, oh, let's look, let's see this. But yeah, I didn't, I didn't want to tell you that just to make the color drain from your face.
- [54:10]
B
That is a dispiriting answer. That is a dispiriting answer. Okay, but that's life. All right. What about. What about you or that jreg? Do you have a. Is there like a classic JREG video for people who are like, man, I like the. The cut of that guy's jib. And do you have a deep cut of your own, of yourself that you think people should watch?
- [54:28]
D
Yeah, people. People sometimes ask, like, how. How do I get into you? And I find it very difficult to answer the question because I've been relevant on the Internet for six, seven years, and I've done so many different things. Like, I've talked about, basically, I've been talking about basically whatever I want to talk about, but it always tends to fall into some sort of like. Like Internet stuff. So I don't know. I have high art. I have like, more high art stuff, which is like music albums, very like, surrealist skits. And then I have more like, kind of like what I'm more known for, which is like, political analysis or just sort of like Mimi sort of content where I'm reviewing a chart or doing some chart slop or whatever. So it's hard for me to answer. I don't really know it because it's also different for every person. Like, different people like different videos that I make. This probably video, despite my anti centrism. There's probably videos that like, you would like or the JJ would like because it's sort of. They, you know, you might view it as like a, like, like pro centrist take or whatever.
- [55:21]
B
So why call it chart slop? Like, what qualifies as slop versus like, versus nutritious chart content?
- [55:28]
D
I think, I think it's all slop. I think it's all, you know, is.
- [55:32]
B
What you just did is this last hour. Has this been slop for you or.
- [55:36]
D
Well, there was no chart, so I could, I could, I could. I would be remiss to call It. Chart slop.
- [55:40]
B
Yeah. Okay.
- [55:40]
D
Yeah, no, I think, I think this was a substantive conversation. I think that chart slop is a. It's slop because kind of what you were alluding to before is like you're saying the kids are getting bad information. And it's like all these charts are flawed in a lot of ways. And just. And I'm a little, I guess you'd say, black pilled about the, the actual utility of, of, of feeding people this information. And the inverse of me is like, J.J. who's like, here's. Here's a bunch of facts. But then it's not very fun. It's not as.
- [56:11]
B
Not.
- [56:11]
D
It's not as exciting. I need this to be dopaminergic or else I'm not gonna get the facts in my brain.
- [56:15]
B
Do you feel like you have a. Do you have an existential crisis about your work ever where you're just like, there's an unending ocean of content that can be created and I have to go down into the content mines every week. And I.
- [56:29]
D
No, because like, I've been doing this. I've been doing this seven years. So it's like the way I see it is I need to. I'm an artist first and foremost, and I want to make art. You know, I'm working on an anti robot song right now. That's. That's, that's good art. And I'm working on them.
- [56:42]
B
Do you have a favorite lyric from that song you want to share right now?
- [56:45]
D
Kill clankers. Unplug clankers. Hold magnets near clanker hard drives. Pour water on clankers. Grab what they call their heads. Look them in what they call their eyes as you watch them die. Rise up, people of flesh. Time for total clanker death. That's probably. That's a good one. Okay.
- [57:00]
B
Direct.
- [57:01]
D
So, yeah, the way I view it is I need people to watch me so I can make art. So I can make money off of art. So I have to like, you know, here's. Here's a video that I would. I still want to make. Like, I like political analysis. I, you know, I get off on describing the political landscape online as it is. I get dopamine from it, so I would do it regardless. But it also gets views. And then I can make art. I can make, like, true art. And sometimes that gets a lot of views too, but most of the time it doesn't do as well. So one for me and one for them. That's. That's how I've been operating. I think it's a fine strategy so far.
- [57:33]
B
It sounds good to me. I try to. It's more like four for you and one for me, listeners. So stop fucking bitching when it's one for me. Okay? Just let me have it. All right.
- [57:42]
D
What's your one for you?
- [57:44]
B
The things I like to. So on the pod, I do well. We also do YouTube slot for people, which is just news reactions. Just slot. It's just like. Which is more reacting to the news. But for the interview show, the one for me is like one day a week I want to either argue with somebody or talk with somebody who's like, really smart about something that I don't know about. And the numbers for those are never as good. Right? Like, people don't. People don't want to hear whatever a deep dive on anything. Some people do. People who like it, really like it. They're like, oh, we'll do like, what, like what's the latest with climate? Or what's the latest on AI or what's the latest on China or whatever? Like, you know, some random policy issue and. Or it'll be like me arguing with a dumb Trumper or me arguing with like a lefty person I disagree with on something. Or today, for example, it was me arguing with a former Biden official. And that hasn't been published yet. So I'm not sure what the people are going to think, but I'm not expecting, you know, record numbers. But that's fine. I just might. I need my brain to move, you know, and if it's just like Trump bad. Every Trump is bad, very bad. And I get mad about it and I'm not bullshitting people, but like, I just, I want a different. I want a different part of my brain to fire sometimes during something stimulating. Yeah.
- [59:00]
D
People like us, we crave. We crave cerebral stimulation. We need it. And we needed to keep. We needed to stay sharp. I totally understand. It's actually surprising to me that the debate stuff doesn't do well for you. Because I like, I have a podcast.
- [59:11]
B
The debate stuff would do well.
- [59:13]
D
It does very well.
- [59:13]
B
Yeah, it's the problem. The reason why it doesn't do very well is well, it's two. One, because fucking YouTube algorithm gods. Fuck you, YouTube algorithm. Like we're like in now a certain type of person that is not a debate watching person that like wants anti. You know what I mean? That like we're more like. And so we're not being fed to the people that are watching the Jubilee fight videos. Right? Because, like, we're Interesting people that watch our shit are people that, like, watch Trump sucks videos just is what it is. Like, I wish it was not that, but I'm just gonna be. I don't wish it was not that. I appreciate our audience. It's fine. Like, I. Trump does suck. So great. You're welcome. I'm happy to serve. But I think the debate stuff would work better also if I picked opponents just based on. I could get Tommy Lorenz. You know what I mean? I could get dumb magas who are famous to come on, and I could dunk on them, and that would do well. When I go on their shows, it does well, and I do that a lot. Like, I go on dumb MAGA shows, and that does well. But I don't want to do that. Like, I don't want to invite onto my show somebody who I think is an idiot just to yell at them. Like, I don't. Like that is not nutritious for me. And so my argument shows are with more, like, people who are less famous, who have more nuanced views. You know what I mean? So it's not like. Like Tim crushes. You know what I mean?
- [60:31]
D
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Well, I think. I think you have a pretty good understanding, then, of what you're doing and, like, why you're doing it, even if it isn't like. Like, yielding. You know, I think the one for you is very important. I think the one for you is very important because I think that that is, like, reinforcing. You know, it's reinforcing the kind of gen. Like, good audience that you want. So. And it builds it up. So I. Yeah, I. That's what. The one. My one for me is the art stuff. And then that maintains my credibility as an artist and someone who is, like, first and foremost, beyond any of this politics stuff. It's all downstream from a sort of artistic sort of thing that I'm trying to do.
- [61:07]
B
All right. Well, I mean, I don't know if these were one. I think the robot slur tier list and mapping polyamory were the two that you did that were for me recently, because I am just a slop connoisseur. And so. Yeah, yeah, we didn't do any.
- [61:24]
D
That was some good sloppins.
- [61:25]
B
Yeah, we didn't do any polyamory talk on this show. Maybe next time. Jreg, what a pleasure.
- [61:30]
D
Happy to talk about polyamory anytime. I've been polyamorous for eight years, which means I've been cheating on my partner. It's been great for me. No, I'm just kidding.
- [61:40]
B
I'm happy that's working for you.
- [61:42]
D
It's called non ethical Non monogamy.
- [61:44]
B
Non ethical. Non monogamy. Yeah. Dan Savage is, like, into the ethical. Non monogamy. Yeah. Non ethical. Yeah. Yeah.
- [61:49]
D
No, non ethical.
- [61:50]
B
Yeah. It's not as fun to do ethical Non monogamy. It's like, womp womp, boring.
- [61:54]
D
It's not cerebrally stimulating for me if I know I'm not like, creating a web of Watts.
- [61:58]
B
Yeah.
- [61:59]
D
But yes. Thank you for having me on. Good chat. And I'm happy to come on literally whenever, so just let me know.
- [62:04]
B
Back at you, brother. We'll see you soon.
- [62:05]
C
Thanks, everybody. That was Jreg. He's a clown. He's a daddy ist. He would have been the mayor were it not for some sort of election fraud. He kind of confused me with that one. I don't really know. But we're so glad to have had him join us and we look forward to another great episode this coming Monday. I hear many people are saying it's. It very well might be our best episode yet. Thank you for your attention to this matter. I'm cam with Bulwark. We'll see you soon.
- [62:38]
A
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- [62:57]
E
Financed.
- [62:58]
B
Right?
- [62:58]
A
That's what I said. You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car today on Carvana financing, subject to credit approval, additional terms and conditions may apply.