Tim Miller (2:04)

Cameron, I just, I do have to correct you. It's important we get the facts right here on the Borg page. The deal has not been finalized because as our great Treasury Secretary Barbie House Living Scott Besant and Punch Fiery Fist, Scott Besant's almost gotten to two fights in the administration that we know of so far. So far? Yeah. Like, dude is ready to throw down. You know, maybe he's the guy who punches that we need. Anyway, the Treasury Secretary said this. We have a framework for a TikTok deal. His agreement, the two leaders, Trump and party chair Xi, will speak on Friday to complete the deal. Is that how things work here in this country? Where, like, the President of the United States just meets with the communist dictator and decides what happens to a private company after Congress has already voted on something and the Supreme Court has ruled on it? The leader just gets to shine a deal that doesn't feel right. I don't think that's how things are supposed to go in a capitalist system.

Cameron Caskey (3:07)

Communist, authoritarian, no matter what the word in front of dictator is. The second word is dictator. But I like the idea of a framework for a deal. It almost brings to mind the famous concept of a plan that Trump had. One of those Trump things where I.

Tim Miller (3:26)

Feel, oh, is that around. That was around health care. Right. We had a concept of a plan for health care.

Cameron Caskey (3:32)

I have an idea of a memory of what it was about, but generally speaking, it's one of those Trump things where when people cite it in regular conversation, I don't get annoyed and say, shut the fuck up about Trump. I'm like, concept of a plan is pretty funny.

Tim Miller (3:46)

Yeah, that's what it was. Concept of a plan. Regarding the replacement of the aca, it's interesting. It turns out he did have a concept of a plan and they're executing on it right now, which is that if you get subsidies from the Affordable Care act, you're not going to get those anymore. And so a lot of people's health insurance premiums are like, just finding. This is like a story. It's happening right now. As we talk in, like the last week or two people, some people are starting to get their premiums for next year and realize that they're going to be a lot higher because they got rid of the subsidies. So he did. He had a concept of a plan. It was just, you have to pay more for your health care. He didn't want to. You can understand why he wouldn't have wanted to enunciate that plan on the campaign trail.

Cameron Caskey (4:23)

Yeah. And when it comes to health care and affordability, when in terms of health care, I think that the Democratic Party needs to restructure the way we look at this because something like single payer as an option, it's no longer a question of what is going to save taxpayers the most money? What's going to be the best system? The new question is how do we mitigate the harm that's going to be caused by RFK Jr's destruction as well as we possibly can? Like, what are we going to do to protect the four year olds getting attached to fucking iron lungs when they go to Pre K because their parents saw a TikTok. Oh, and TikTok's okay, so it'll be. It'll be there still. Their parents saw a TikTok telling them that, like, drinking unpasteurized milk is more effective than a fucking TB vaccine. Like, that's how I think we need to approach health care right now is less what is the best financial model for health care and more like, how are we going to help the many people who will spend generations paying for Robert Failson Kennedy Jr's like, Reign of terror?

Tim Miller (5:24)

Can I say another thing while we're talking about vaccines? On our Saturday episode with Amanda Lippman, which was so good. She's amazing. Run for something. Go support her work.

Cameron Caskey (5:32)

Run for something you're telling me to do. Okay, I'll think about it.

Tim Miller (5:34)

I'm telling everybody to think about it. And especially if you might be living near New York 12 and already have a platform and a history of activism. On that episode, I brought up that I had been mistakenly glib with about the shingles vaccine. And I was just trying to be funny. And I said, I apologize. People are mad at me about that. It was just a joke. And yet still in the comment sections, after I said that I was wrong, people felt the need to be like, and another thing, shingles is very bad. Tim. You don't know how bad shingles is. And they would write long messages in the comments about how bad their experience with shingles was. And I was like, that's what I told you. Just take apology for an answer. Take a yes or an answer. We're vulnerable here. This is what me and Karen are trying to tell you. We're in a vulnerable moment right now. We don't need to be.

Cameron Caskey (6:29)

While we're talking about audience feedback, I just want to say, whoever on Reddit talked about how Tim was on MSNBC talking about Howard Nutlik and had to pause before he said Lutnick because he's so used to calling him Howard Nutlik, I wanted to give you a chance to respond to this person.

Tim Miller (6:51)

I just want to let the magic stand. Okay. I'm just glad you enjoyed it. All right. I'm just out here trying to Give you guys just little glimmers of joy in the midst of the madness. And I'm glad you enjoyed that. Just closing loop on the TikTok. Before we get to the silly topics you wanted to do in your friend group. Were people mad about this? Did they care about it? Was it something that was on your text chains? Were people just assuming, never going to happen? Like, was there any dialogue about this at all?

Cameron Caskey (7:19)

So I was kind of making fun of it. When the original talk of the TikTok ban was happening, and when this was first a topic in either late January or early February, I was making fun of it. And some people were like, cam, there's a lot of businesses that rely on this, and there's a lot of small businesses where TikTok is the way that they've been able to attract customers. Like, this isn't just a matter of people dancing and spreading misinformation and communist propaganda. There's more to it than that. And I was sort of like, okay, but it's not like I'm joking about people getting killed. It's not like I'm, you know, making a mockery of something very serious. It is TikTok. I do get that, like, this is part of certain people's livelihoods.

Andy Zaltzman (8:07)

Hello, it's Dan and Andy here from no Such thing as a Fish, your favorite new podcast that you haven't heard yet.

Dan Schreiber (8:13)

That's right, we are a podcast that's been going 10 years, and each week we bring four of the best facts we've heard that week to the table to blow each other's minds as well as yours.

Andy Zaltzman (8:21)

Here's a fact, Dan, did you know that the people of Iceland can use 95% of a COD? Okay, they're just working on that last 5%.

Dan Schreiber (8:29)

If you want to find out how they do that, why they do that, and why we're talking about that, check out no Such Thing as a Fish wherever you get your podcasts.

Andy Zaltzman (8:38)

Now, I should say, despite my fact having cod in it, this is not a podcast about fish. It's about everything. I just happened to pick one of the worst and most confusing facts possible. Ta ra.

Cameron Caskey (8:48)

But generally speaking, people were very against TikTok ban. I was against it because generally speaking, people were. To be honest, I didn't really give a shit because I think TikTok fucking sucks. And I think it. The. The UI is ugly. And I think that it is. It can be pretty directly attributed to the radicalization of my generation of young men. But also, I think it would have happened Anyway, is the, is the, is the other end of that? Like, I think Gamergate is more easily the thing that we can point to. But yeah, people were upset about the tick. It just definitely wasn't in the conversation this week because I think everybody had already assumed that we were kind of over this.

Tim Miller (9:28)

Yeah. Right.

Cameron Caskey (9:29)

Once that message went out on TikTok saying, thank you, Emperor Trump. We, we thank you for your service, saving everybody's lives. The, the push notification Tik Tok sent out, I think that was kind of the end of it. And nobody really knew that this was still something that was being discussed.

Tim Miller (9:45)

Yeah, but that makes sense. Yeah, I hear you. I, I like you. Like, your paws showed. I was pretty torn about, like, the actual merits of the TikTok ban. Like, I, I guess this is kind of one of those things where I give so many opinions. I bet if you went back into my archive at some point, I gave an opinion about which side I would have been on on it in the end. But it was really, I don't really remember. And it was a close run call for me. Like, the Chinese part of it is the thing that was the most concerning for me. And I was kind of like, couldn't this be replicable by somebody and couldn't somebody in America create a fucking short term video feed? You know, short form video feed, it's addictive. Like, you know, I don't know. Instagram reels is kind of that already, but just not as good. And I just, I, I'm hesitant on, like, I just have a natural aversion to bans. Like, I have a high bar for wanting, wanting bans. That said, like, I have an extreme. I have an extremely clear view on the fact that if the Congress bans something and the President signs it and The Supreme Court rules 9. 0 that it should be banned, that it should actually be banned, and that we shouldn't just let Donald Trump, like lick his little tiny pinky finger and just his little orange finger be like, never mind, we don't ban it. And like, that is the thing that is, I guess it's just hard to get people to care about process, but it's kind of like it is hard.

Cameron Caskey (10:59)

To get people to care about process.

Tim Miller (11:01)

But it makes, it just makes me like, we're not, it's not a democracy. Like, we're not. And I guess maybe people have just sort of decided we're not really in a democracy, so they don't really care. But that whole part is the alarming thing to me.

Cameron Caskey (11:11)

And I think Trump is exploiting the fact that the complexity of the process makes it hard for people to care about the process. Because there's just so many things. Things like this need to go through. It brings to mind the Caskey vs Nike Supreme Court case. Do you know about this?

Tim Miller (11:27)

I didn't know about your show.

Cameron Caskey (11:30)

My great uncle won a Supreme Court case against Nike.

Tim Miller (11:34)

First Amendment, day labor in China, putting together.

Cameron Caskey (11:38)

It was about that. It was about Nike was advertising that they were not using sweatshops. And he was like, yeah, they are. So it became a First Amendment question of like, well, can we say this in our. Everybody look up Kaski vs Nike. It's the real legacy of my family. That and my grandfather, not me.

Tim Miller (11:56)

What was the end? I need. I need the story. I need you to tell me what happened. How did it. How did it play out?

Cameron Caskey (12:02)

He ended up going to Burning man all the time. That is what happened. Big Burning man guy, Mark Caskey, court.

Tim Miller (12:11)

Decision, World 4 to 3 in favor of him. So did Nike stop? Nike settled out of court with him. So I guess maybe he probably had a nice spot at Burning Man. But I don't know. Does it seem like Nike actually changed their practices?

Cameron Caskey (12:24)

Wait. Oh, shit. Okay, well, I'm gonna text some people and see if I have access to more money than I thought I did. Thank you.

Tim Miller (12:34)

Anyway. All right, well, if you want to advertise on this show, you have to be honest about your practices. And that's why we have Mint Mobile. Do you struggle with procrastinating? I know Cam does. Do you know when you put off doing something that could save you a ton and that's annoying? I am a huge procrastinator sometimes as well. But that changed when I heard about Mint Mobile's best deal of the year. That's ending soon. 50% off unlimited premium wireless for new customers. Stop overspending with big wireless and cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month when you switch. All Mint Mobile plans come with high speed data and unlimited talking text on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your current phone number on any Mint Mobile plan and bring along all your existing contacts. Don't miss out on three months of unlimited premium wireless for Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. But hurry, because this deal ends September 22nd. Oh, shit. That's in one week. So quit stalling and start saving when you make the switch. Shop plans@mintmobile.com FYpod that's mintmobile.com FYpod Upfront payment of 45 bucks is required. Limited time new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra CMIT mobile for details. Okay Cam, you had some other things you wanted to talk about?

Cameron Caskey (13:52)

Yes, I found a video. In our search for anything other than reprehensible political violence to talk about I found a video that covers a topic that is actually very interesting to me which is Jen Z's relationship with religion. I want to take a look at it right now.

Guest Speaker (possibly Jonathan Haidt or a commentator on religion) (14:07)

First time in history young women are less religious than young men.

Tim Miller (14:11)

Now typically women would have been more.

Guest Speaker (possibly Jonathan Haidt or a commentator on religion) (14:14)

Yeah but among Gen Z it's men that are going to church way more than women now. And Jonathan Haidt did some research on this showing that he like presented, he looked at a survey of statements and they were things like I have no hope in myself, I don't believe like really self disparaging statements. And he found that teenagers without religion agreed with them way stronger than teenagers who were religious and especially who were conservative. External locus of control. So conservatives tend to have more of an internal locus of control so they feel more control over things happening in their lives. Also if you're conservative teenager you're more likely just living with both parents which I think protects your mental health and also your parents are more likely to.

Cameron Caskey (15:01)

Know the locusts boundaries. Are you familiar with the film?

Guest Speaker (possibly Jonathan Haidt or a commentator on religion) (15:04)

I think it probably is getting in the way in a sense he was.

Cameron Caskey (15:06)

A real asshole to the Jews. The opposite of Jews many many years ago.

Guest Speaker (possibly Jonathan Haidt or a commentator on religion) (15:10)

Christianity.

Tim Miller (15:12)

Stop the video. You can't listen to the video and Cameron make jokes about the pharaoh going after the Jewish people.

Cameron Caskey (15:18)

The pharaoh going after the Jewish people was no joke and we're glad that we got rid of that guy. What's your take on all of this? With the religiosity of young dudes and.

Tim Miller (15:28)

We'Re really bringing coming into a couple of topics on this show that I'm torn about. It's very freeing as a content man to just sometimes say I don't know, I've got mixed views on this. It's something that I try to practice because you don't see a lot of that out there. You see a lot of people bullshitting and pretending like they have really strong views about things they don't know anything about. But personally I had some bad experiences with religion. You know as a gay Catholic I just have some negative associations. Didn't really work for me. Wasn't that great. And yet I think that there was a. Was it. I hate positively quoting Ross Douthat but I'M pretty sure this was a Ross Douthout line that was kind of like if you didn't like the evangelical right, like wait until you meet the atheist. Right. And like, I think that there's like a little bit of truth under that. I think that in society there's some people that really gain value from a belief in an external locust of control. Is that locusts of control, as that woman was saying. And that there are, in a society, there are folks that benefit from, you know, going and sitting in a pew on Sunday and like believing in something greater than themselves and connecting to other people in their community and, and trying to model positive behavior for the others, the young people in the community that are in the church. Right. Obviously there are other deeper religious reasons to do it, but from a societal standpoint, they feel like there's some societal benefits to it. Obviously, as mentioned, there's some societal harms. And so I just look at it now and I do worry a little bit about that the lack of religion kind of ties to a lot of the other isolation stuff. So that's the part of it that worries me. Even though I'm not super keen on.

Cameron Caskey (17:15)

Churching myself, I definitely think talking about God all the time is a good thing to do. If you are running a populist adjacent campaign in Texas for Senate. And I think that were there anybody who is talking about God all the time running a populist adjacent Senate campaign in Texas, you all ought to go donate and support and follow on social media and see how I would just.

Tim Miller (17:35)

Note that hypothetically, if you're talking about that kind of person, it might be good to talk about just God, not as a they them though, you know.

Cameron Caskey (17:44)

Does James Talarico not use pronouns for God?

Tim Miller (17:49)

I don't know who you're talking about, but there was. Yeah, I did. No, I'm just joking. Yeah, there was a clip going around of him where he talked about how God was non binary in 2021. And like. Well, the point is I get actually my, my parents go to the lib priest in Denver, shout out Father Pat and he gave a similar sermon about that, about how God is not really man or woman. And there's, you know, something to be that can be learned about that. It was actually really. I listened to the HOM tapes and it was really thoughtful. But to your point about how if you're doing things maybe hopefully to get some political benefit, it's probably, it's kind of a complex point and one that would probably not be particularly useful for the political purposes.

Cameron Caskey (18:30)

I mean, there's something a little comical about the idea of God having one gender. It's like all things come from a dude which happens to be the gender that cannot create life.

Tim Miller (18:43)

Like that is true. There's also something. And the whole thing is comical. It's comical thinking about God as like a non binary barista, you know what I mean? Like, you know, there's. It's something above and beyond our gender construct. If you were to believe it, I would think.

Cameron Caskey (18:55)

Yeah, well, I just, I don't know. I think that I see where you're coming from, politically speaking. But it's just like imagine, Imagine if we found out that there was a God and coincidentally God was just a dude and there's no woman God, it's just a guy and he reproduced by budding like a fucking sponge. Anyway, I think you hit. I think you got, you're hurting your.

Tim Miller (19:18)

Campaign for Congress right now.

Cameron Caskey (19:20)

I think you got it right on the money with talking about community when it comes to religion. Because that's what I see as the big value add of religion is that sense of community in that sense of being part of something with other people where you're all part of something bigger than you. I always say that one of the reasons that talking to women, both like my friends and women I'm flirting with, one of the reasons it's so easy for me is I was doing theater growing up. And when you're in a musical, girls and boys are different, sure, but at the end of the day, no matter how different you are, you're part of the same show. And therefore, and you could both, you're on the same team and you're part of the same community. And it's hard to look at somebody as alien and different from you when, when push comes to shove, it doesn't fucking matter if you don't remember your lines. So I think that the sense of community that could be provided by religion is great. But then when it comes to the sense of moral goodness and everything, I don't know how different, how much of a difference religion will end up making in somebody. It brings to mind when we had a guest on our show who seemed like a very sincere and honest person talking about his belief in Christ and the liberating power of Christ. And it was also through Christ that he was advocating for Christofascism and sending us emails after the show about how he hopes that I, a Jewish person, can find Christ. And I was like, hey, respectfully, I'm a Jew. I'M closer to Christ than you are, dude. Because Jesus is like, other than maybe Larry David, the most famous Jewish person of all time. But I don't know. I'm like, it's very obvious why women are less religious than men right now. Men are feeling lost, without a sense of purpose. And when somebody, especially like a charismatic preacher can present to you a list of things you can do in your life that can put you on the course to find a purpose, that's going to be magnetic. Whereas women are looking to education and to their careers and to each other for that. Like, women are friends with women right now more than guys are friends with anybody. Like, yeah, women are moving in together. Women are buying houses together. That's not something rampantly happening. But what I'm saying is, like, women are finding in themselves and each other what a lot of young men are looking for in religion. And I know dudes personally who have gotten more religious as things have gotten more complicated and difficult.

Andy Zaltzman (21:56)

Hello, it's Dan and Andy here from no Such Thing as a Fish, your favorite new podcast that you haven't heard yet.

Dan Schreiber (22:01)

That's right, we are a podcast that's been going 10 years, and each week we bring four of the best facts we've heard that week to the table to blow each other's minds as well as yours.

Andy Zaltzman (22:10)

Here's a fact, Dan. Did you know that the people of Iceland can use 95% of a cod?

Dan Schreiber (22:15)

Okay.

Andy Zaltzman (22:16)

They're just working on that last 5%.

Dan Schreiber (22:18)

If you want to find out how they do that, why they do that, and why we're talking about that, check out no Such Thing as a Fish wherever you get your podcasts.

Andy Zaltzman (22:27)

Now, I should say, despite my fact having cod in it, this is not a podcast about fish. It's about everything. I just happened to pick one of the worst and most confusing facts possible.

Cameron Caskey (22:36)

Tara, and we're going to land in the same place here, which is, like, there's positives and negatives to this, right? If it's something that. That actually inspires connectivity and the desire to reflect positive values, that's great. And if it's something that's just going to radicalize people even further, that's bad. But it is an interesting thing to notice that young men are looking for this more right now. And it is like I said, and.

Tim Miller (23:00)

You'Re right, we don't even have to spend time on it because it's so obvious why it's happening. But I just think this is why it's, like my pessimistic Nature sometimes comes into play here where I become a little bit more, I don't know, open to thinking that this is a positive thing for young guys or whatever. Because, like, the alternatives. Alternatives are so bad, right? Like, I think back and I'm like, if you had told 15 years ago, Tim, like, just ask me cold, like, what do you think about, like Joel Osteen and the prosperity Bible and like, whether that has a good impact on people, I would have told you. What your face just says, that is awful. He is awful. It's mostly lies. It's like leading people to focus on the wrong things in life. It's kind of bullshit. And I find him gross now 2025, if you're like, if we woke up tomorrow, it was like all of these incel young men that are like turning to radicalization and turning to Christo nationalism instead all started going to prosperity gospel and started cheering and thinking about how Jesus wants them to buy a new car. I would think to myself, that seems to be better than where we're at.

Cameron Caskey (24:11)

Is Jesus wants them to buy a new car just like a random example, or has Joel Osteen actually said that?

Tim Miller (24:16)

I don't know if he exactly said that same thing.

Cameron Caskey (24:17)

Sponsored by Toyota.

Tim Miller (24:19)

Joel Osteen. The whole Osteen thing was kind of how like, God wants you to succeed. God wants you to prosper. God wants you to, you know, go out and earn wealth and be happy and then share that wealth with others. Like, that was kind of his. Has the gist of the Austin.

Cameron Caskey (24:37)

Here's my advice to people. Anyone watching. This is intergenerational advice. Have you ever browsed an incognito mode? It's not as incognito as you think. Oh, shit, that's not good for me. Google recently settled a $5 billion lawsuit after being accused of secretly tracking users in incognito mode. Google's defense, incognito does not mean invisible. In fact, all your online activity is still 100% visible to a ton of third parties. And that's why I've been using our friends at Express vpn. That is vpn. I'm not going to lie to you. I did not know until very recently what a VPN even was. I vaguely knew that some people use it to access other countries Netflix catalogs, which is a big one for some people. But I didn't get around to watching Anchorman 2 or the B Movie because they left Netflix and Now I've got ExpressVPN to find them anywhere else in the world. And Believe me, as a fan of the B movie, you, you know, I have watched it so, so very many times. They have servers in over 100 countries so you can gain access to thousands of new shows and never run out of shit to watch. It works on all your devices, phones, laptops, tablets, smart TVs and more. They're rated number one by Top Tech reviewers like CNET and The Verge. Their ExpressVPN and not slow inefficient VPN for a reason. Look, all of us have things we're searching on the Internet that we'd rather other people not see. No comment. But now, thanks to ExpressVPN, those kinds of queries will be safe from the prying eyes of my Internet service provider. Protect your online privacy today by visiting expressvpn.com FYpod that is expressvpn.com FYpod to find out how you can get up to four extra months free. Expressvpn.com FYpod thank you. I'm a Jewish person. That is my ethnicity, that is my community, that is my sense of humor and my observational comedy. But generally speaking in terms of faith, you know, I, I think everybody ought to be proud of whatever they believe. I think everybody ought to look for good things in life wherever they want to. But I seek in other people what some seek in ancient texts. And it has gotten me, it has brought me so much joy. Like my religion and my belief is other human beings. I believe that the most divine and, and powerful thing in the world is a human being's capacity to allow goodness to prevail over evil within their own spirit. And I think that that's God for me. And because of that, I am let down when people allow the evil to prevail. But generally speaking, I have this undying faith that keeps me on a certain course because I believe in my own ability to do good. And I believe that the dark thoughts I have, and I have so very many, I'm a very demented person. They're not going to win at the end of the day because I care so much more about putting into this world what I hope others do as well and leaving it a better place than I found it. So my advice to everybody is like, if you're lost and religion isn't making any sense to you, start to believe in your own ability to do good and start to believe in your own ability to encourage others to do good. And then God can be a part of that. God doesn't need to be a part of that. Like if there is a holy body judging us when we die, I assure you, if what you're focusing on is doing good, you will be judged positively. Because there's a lot of people who think God's going to be really nice to him because they talked about God a lot, but they didn't do a lot of good. And from what I understand about your average Abrahamic God, doing good is what's important. And that is my truth.

Tim Miller (28:18)

That was great.

Cameron Caskey (28:19)

That is my beliefs. That is my belief system.

Tim Miller (28:21)

That's great. Is that the end of the show? That's wonderful.

Cameron Caskey (28:24)

All right, everybody.

Tim Miller (28:25)

Did you have something else, too, or was. Did we do it?

Cameron Caskey (28:27)

I want to say to everybody who is Hindu, here's the ones that I know. Brahma is the creator, Vishnu is the preserver, Shiva is the destroyer, and then there's Ganesh, and I'm sure he's great with Fypod and Bulwark. We're Tim Miller and Cam Kaski. I hope you all had a fun time with us today, because we sure did. Stay tuned.

Tim Miller (28:46)

Love you all.

Andy Zaltzman (28:58)

Hello, it's Dan and Andy here from no Such Thing as a Fish, your favorite new podcast that you haven't heard yet.

Dan Schreiber (29:03)

That's right, we are a podcast that's been going 10 years, and each week we bring four of the best facts we've heard that week to the table to blow each other's minds as well as yours.

Andy Zaltzman (29:12)

Here's a fact. Dan, did you know that the people of Iceland can use 95% of a cod? Okay, they're just working on that last 5%.

Dan Schreiber (29:20)

If you want to find out how they do that, why they do that, and why we're talking about that, check out no Such Thing as a Fish wherever you get your podcasts.

Andy Zaltzman (29:29)

Now, I should say, despite my fact having cod in it, this is not a podcast about fish. It's about everything. I just happened to pick one of the worst and most confusing facts possible, Tara.