Game Scoop! 779: PS5 Pro - Sony Spared No Expense

Summary

Game Scoop! Episode 779: PS5 Pro - Sony Spared No Expense

Release Date: September 12, 2024

Hosts:

• Damon Hatfield (Host)
• Sam Claiborne
• Ethan Gach
• Justin Davis
• Mark Medina
• Greg Miller

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with Damon Hatfield welcoming the regular cast: Sam Claiborne, Ethan Gach, Justin Davis, Mark Medina, and Greg Miller. He outlines the week’s agenda, which includes discussions on the newly announced PlayStation 5 Pro, updates on popular games like Space Marine 2, Star Wars Outlaws, Astrobot, Shadow of the Erdtree, and a potential dive into the September 1993 issue of EGM if time permits. However, the main focus rapidly shifts to the central topic: the PlayStation 5 Pro announcement.

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2. PlayStation 5 Pro Announcement

Damon Hatfield introduces the PlayStation 5 Pro, highlighting its hefty price tag of $700. He notes that this upgrade does not include a disc drive or a vertical stand but boasts enhanced compute units, superior ray tracing, and PSSR (machine learning upscaling akin to NVIDIA’s DLSS).

Notable Quote:

[02:32] Mark Medina: "I don't know what it stands for, but it's their machine learning upscaling."

Despite the high cost, Damon mentions that Sony’s die-hard fans are unabashedly supportive, willing to shell out the extra money for improved performance and graphics.

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3. Price Point and Market Reaction

The conversation delves into the historical pricing strategies of Sony, comparing the PS5 Pro to previous models like the PS3, which debuted at $699. Ethan Gach reminisces about the PS3’s initial pricing and the comparison Sony made between its consoles and types of meat— positioning the higher-end models as "fine steaks."

Notable Quote:

[03:24] Ethan Gach: "So you lovers out there, which we pulled, there's about 10% of you will very much enjoy this as an upgrade to your systems."

Greg Miller criticizes Sony’s cyclical approach to console releases, suggesting that the PS5 Pro is not a strategic move to expand the install base but rather a revenue booster targeting the most enthusiastic segment of their audience.

Notable Quote:

[05:55] Greg Miller: "Sony knows all about its hyper engaged fans who want the best experience possible... This is a high end device for the platform's most enthusiastic fans."

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4. Design and Features of PS5 Pro

The hosts analyze the design choices of the PS5 Pro, noting its more compact, rectangular form factor which is a departure from the original PS5’s bulky structure. Ethan Gach appreciates the aesthetic improvements, stating it "looks better than the PS5" and praises the decision to omit the disc drive for a sleeker appearance.

Notable Quote:

[08:10] Justin Davis: "Nobody cares about this 2 terabyte SSD apparently, right?"

Justin Davis points out that the PS5 Pro includes a 2TB SSD, contrasting it with Xbox’s upcoming Starry Edition Xbox priced at $600 with a similar storage capacity. This inclusion aims to cater to enthusiasts requiring ample storage for high-end games with large patch sizes.

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5. Affordability and Consumer Impact

The discussion shifts to the affordability of the PS5 Pro. Greg Miller and Justin Davis speculate on Sony’s inability to reduce production costs, leading to the elevated price. They debate whether consumers are willing to pay the premium, especially considering the current economic climate and inflation.

Notable Quote:

[14:29] Damon Hatfield: "We have that decision like they used to."

Justin Davis reflects on the necessity of the high price, suggesting it may be due to Sony refusing to subsidize hardware costs, especially with recent game sales not meeting expectations. This strategic shift could indicate challenges in sustaining lower-priced consoles in future generations.

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6. Future Implications for Console Pricing

Damon Hatfield and Greg Miller discuss the potential long-term implications of the PS5 Pro’s pricing on future consoles like the PS6. They worry that setting a precedent with a $700 price tag could hinder Sony’s ability to offer more affordable consoles down the line.

Notable Quote:

[29:41] Greg Miller: "Maybe they'll make Indiana Jones run really poorly on the PS5 Pro."

Damon Hatfield further emphasizes the concern that the PS5 Pro could price out a significant portion of the market, limiting accessibility for a broader audience and potentially stunting the growth of the console’s user base.

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7. Additional Features and Refurbished Models

Justin Davis highlights that the PS5 Pro’s 2TB SSD is a significant selling point, especially for storage-intensive games. However, he criticizes the lack of a 1TB model, which could have been priced around $600, making it more accessible while still catering to enthusiasts.

Notable Quote:

[14:57] Justin Davis: "Nobody's looking at it in that form. Sony could have done themselves a favor by being like the 1 TB model 600, the 2 TB model 700."

The hosts also touch upon Sony's refurbished PS5s, available at discounted prices of $350 and $400, aimed at competing with other marketplace offerings and providing more budget-friendly options.

Notable Quote:

[05:10] Mark Miller: "Sony is going to start selling its own refurbished PS5s... they’re both come in at 100 bucks less than just a brand new PS5 base."

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8. Consumer Sentiment and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with mixed sentiments towards the PS5 Pro. While Justin Davis expresses personal interest in acquiring the Pro for his gaming setup, Greg Miller remains skeptical about its reception beyond the dedicated fanbase.

Notable Quotes:

[25:36] Justin Davis: "If you save money, you know, like this big, dumb, big box that's super Ugly... that's what console users aren't ready for."

[29:59] Justin Davis: "The market will decide whether or not the world is ready for a $700 console."

Damon Hatfield underscores the importance of Sony’s upcoming showcases and game announcements in potentially ameliorating the Pro's market reception.

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9. Wrap-Up and Community Engagement

Before wrapping up, the hosts briefly discuss other ongoing projects and games, including Space Marine 2 and Astrobot, but these are secondary to the main discussion on the PS5 Pro. The episode closes with a segment on video game 20 questions, engaging listeners in interactive content, and reminders about the show’s schedule.

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Key Takeaways:

• PS5 Pro announced at $700 with enhanced graphics and a 2TB SSD, but lacking a disc drive and vertical stand.
• Sony’s strategy seems focused on maximizing revenue from die-hard fans rather than expanding the user base.
• Historical pricing comparisons suggest potential challenges in future console affordability.
• Design improvements appreciated, yet concerns about market saturation and accessibility persist.
• Refurbished models offered as a more affordable alternative to the new Pro.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [02:32] Mark Medina: "I don't know what it stands for, but it's their machine learning upscaling."
• [03:24] Ethan Gach: "So you lovers out there, which we pulled, there's about 10% of you will very much enjoy this as an upgrade to your systems."
• [05:55] Greg Miller: "Sony knows all about its hyper engaged fans who want the best experience possible... This is a high end device for the platform's most enthusiastic fans."
• [08:10] Justin Davis: "Nobody cares about this 2 terabyte SSD apparently, right?"
• [14:29] Damon Hatfield: "We have that decision like they used to."
• [25:36] Justin Davis: "If you save money, you know, like this big, dumb, big box that's super Ugly... that's what console users aren't ready for."
• [29:59] Justin Davis: "The market will decide whether or not the world is ready for a $700 console."

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Conclusion: Episode 779 of Game Scoop! offers an in-depth and critical analysis of Sony’s latest venture with the PS5 Pro. While the console promises significant technical enhancements targeted at enthusiasts, its steep price point raises concerns about broader market acceptance and the sustainability of Sony’s pricing strategies in future console generations. The hosts provide a balanced view, acknowledging the Pro’s appeal to die-hard fans while questioning its value proposition for the average gamer.

Transcript

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[Sam Claiborne]

See for [e-mail] what's up everybody?

[Damon Hatfield]

Welcome to IG and Game Scoop. I'm your host Damon Hatfield. Joining me this week are Sam Claiborne.

[Ethan Gach]

Hey, good to be here.

[Damon Hatfield]

Justin Davis, Scoop and Mark Medina.

[Justin Davis]

Why am I here? Daemon?

[Damon Hatfield]

Oh, that's not your catchphrase.

[Ethan Gach]

Come on.

[Justin Davis]

I'm here.

[Damon Hatfield]

Daemon, you know exactly why you're here.

[Ethan Gach]

It's because it's the big debate that everybody was looking forward to this week.

[Justin Davis]

This is it.

[Damon Hatfield]

Great show for you this week. So much to talk about. I know some of us have been playing Space Marine 2. I want to get your thoughts on that. I have some updated thoughts on Star Wars Outlaws and Astrobot and Shoot Shadow of the Erdtree. And time permitting, I have the September 1993 issue of EGM to look through. Time permitting, we'll see because there is a big topic to get through first. But first it's the PlayStation 5 Pro, which of course was announced this week. It is real and real expensive. $700 does not get you a disc drive or a vertical stand, but it gets you more compute units and better ray tracing and pssr. Mark, you remember what that stands for?

[Justin Davis]

I don't know what it stands for, but it's their machine learning upscaling. Yeah, it's their DSLL or DLSS.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

It's PlayStation really rad.

[Damon Hatfield]

It's what now?

[Ethan Gach]

PlayStation really rad.

[Damon Hatfield]

Okay, got it. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's the talk of the town. Everyone seems to agree it's very expensive. But the Die Hards, the dedicated Sony Die Hards, they're fine with it. They're fine. No problem shelling out $700 for a new PS5.

[Ethan Gach]

Well, David, you all remember 20 years ago in which the PS3 was being debuted and they came in at a price tag of what was it, 699. And there's another that was like 4.99 or something like that. And the comparison made by Sony was that it was like getting a fine steak. Your PS2 is more of a hamburger. This is a fine steak.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

So you lovers out there, which we pulled, there's about 10% of you will very much enjoy this as an upgrade to your systems.

[Greg Miller]

Sony seems incapable of breaking out of the cycle of like you know, being, you know, contrite and fan oriented Sony and then they go back to being arrogant Sony again. And like we're, I think we're in peak arrogant Sony territory right now, which not necessarily for a bad reason, right? Like the PS5 is absolutely dominating the Xbox on the sales charts. Like the company's right, riding high, but like, but they never seem to learn, right? And that's how we end up with the PS3. And you know what, like this is the cycle that we're in, right? And like Sam, I think you're right. Of like, you know, I. Damon, you have the poll results. I don't have them in front of me. Like we polled the audience. Overwhelmingly people thought the console was too expensive. They were not interested. Except for this sliver of Die Hards, right? And like that's who this console is for and that's why it cost 700. It costs that much for people that are not price sensitive and it's Sony just soaking their Die Hard fans and generating revenue from them.

[Justin Davis]

But how many jobs do I have to have to get this one? Are we up to three jobs?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah, I think you're up to three jobs. You need that extra hundred bucks off of the launch PS3.

[Ethan Gach]

Did you see the trade in stats, what they currently are for it? It's like 200 something bucks for PS5. Trade in or is it?

[Damon Hatfield]

Oh, I haven't seen that. But Sony is going to start selling its own refurbished PS5s through its PlayStation Direct site and I think that the disc list version will have more on hand is 350 and the one with the disc is 400. So I think they're both come in at 100 bucks less than just a brand new PS5 base.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, I mean Sam, I bet you're right because them announcing their refurbished program at the same time that they're probably about to receive a bunch of PS5 trade ins. That totally makes sense. I bet those two things are connected.

[Ethan Gach]

Apple scheme kind of.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Damon Hatfield]

There's been a lot of interesting talk about this this week. Games Industry Biz put up a good article today where they're saying to mirror what you were just saying Justin. They said Sony knows all about its hyper engaged fans who want the best experience possible. It knows what they can afford and what they care about and it knows this group will be salivating at the prospect of a PS5 Pro. A $700 PS5 Pro is not Sony's big play at driving a bigger install base for its hardware. It might help a bit but really this is a high end device for the platform's most enthusiastic fans. That's it.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, I agree. I mean I don't. So to be clear, I don't want a PS5 Pro. I don't like it. So it's like I don't want to come across as like defending it. This is, this is not something that I'm interested in. But I do think that like Mark Cerny and Sony were in an interesting position. They really had to walk a fine line between like they can't and don't want to make the PS5 sound bad. And so they have to walk this line of like the PS5 is great. If you want to buy a PS5, we recommend it. Like it's amazing, amazing. You're gonna have so much fun. But then they also have to do that thing of like look at how blurry and like low frame ratey these games look as they're sort of selling you on the new thing. And so that's such a funny and sort of tough tightrope for them.

[Ethan Gach]

I didn't think about it that way. That's, that's totally true. I, I noticed that like what Damon, the quote that you're just saying there's like a design. I know Sony didn't say that but like it's like kind of the assumption of their, their motivations. But there's a design philosophy that Nintendo comes at games at or consoles at which is like it's built around the Game. Right. Like, if we're going to make a game, and I know this has worked against them, where they're like, we need to make a game where you can swing a sword. Like, you know, like that didn't work out very well. But a lot of times they're like, we need to like even the switches this way. We want to make things that you can play on your TV and make play in the car and they're like seamless or we want to make. But it's traditionally been like we made an analog stick because we're making a 3D Mario game. Like, that's really interesting. And so these point 5 systems are like, if they're for audience, if they're for like people that like maybe always want the newest thing, but may not care really about games too much, but like, they look a little bit better. Like, I know that's just a different philosophy and I think it's interesting to hear that that that's a point of investment for them. It's expensive to make a big fancy system and sell it to 10% of their audience.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, well, and 10%. What's funny about that number is that's what it was when the PS4 proced the PS4 at the same price as the launch price of the PS4. Where they're not doing that here. They lowered the price of the PS4 and set this out as their new thing, whereas they are just charging more for this one. I don't know if we're going to hit 10%.

[Ethan Gach]

People we knew around us basically all got a probiotic because of that. That was a really interesting price point and a really interesting thing. So that is really the different discussion now. That and the PS4 had games to look forward to. Those are two differences right now which I think are probably the skepticism behind the PS5 Pro is like, what are you going to play on it? And what, it's a victim of inflation and all these other things for sure. But that should be a reason not to do it maybe than to just do it at a high price point that people can dunk on.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah. I want to go back to what you guys are saying about them showing the old games. I think that that just is a calculated move because it's like if they wanted to show something like Assassin's Creed Shadows or something like that, it's exactly what you guys are saying. They're basically saying, hey, the console you own right now is the not great way to play Assassin's Creed Shadows. They don't want to do that. So they're going to do that for games like Ratchet and Clank, Rift Apart and A freaking Last of Us Part two, which took up the most of that showcase or you know, that presentation. But it's like it's because those games have already sold what they're going to sell. So they don't mind kind of disparaging in my opinion. They don't mind disparaging those games where they don't want to disparage anything new because they don't want to make PS5 owners feel like they are playing worse versions of games that aren't out yet. I also think how cool would it.

[Ethan Gach]

Have been if they would have shown Outlaws working really well and been like we fixed it, but you got to get this system I would have been in.

[Justin Davis]

I really wish they would have done it for Rebirth because Rebirth is notoriously like runs pretty poor and it's PS5 exclusive, right? So it's like that would be the one that they could really hone down on and be like, hey, remember how you thought Rebirth was kind of blurry? It's not anymore.

[Ethan Gach]

You're totally right though that we're in that we're still in that year of game sales. So it's like they gotta pick your battles. That's really funny to think about it that way. I love that angle.

[Greg Miller]

Like we also like compounding with that. It's like I watched the stream on YouTube, you know, there was other platforms streaming it and all of them just compress the video quality to shit, right? So like, you know, so you're also. It's like. And again like I guess I this is a point kind of defending Sony a little bit. Although I'm not a PS5 Pro fan of like they're kind of host. Like there's not really a way for them to show it on any of these streaming platforms in a way where you're actually going to get a material difference between like you know, the one image on the left and the one on the right. Like you know, Digital Foundry gets around that by like you can download their high res native 4K videos and sort of see it in its actual video output form. But those clips uploaded anywhere are going to be compressed to. Heck yeah.

[Justin Davis]

We're currently uploading the non compressed version and that nine minute clip is 70 gigs because like that's the version that, that people should see but nobody did, right? Because yeah, you're just watching the stream on Twitch or whatever.

[Ethan Gach]

You know, just in terms of like fulfilling something that I want it does do the thing that I will be on the record, I said this like you shouldn't have to choose between high frame rate and graphics this generation. Like technically this is like, I mean it's a small thing, right? But like I want that. I absolutely want it. You know, it's great that it solves that. I can't wait to see what this thing looks like in person. And by the way, our social team did a good job of just doing like one like just taking like a square of a small part of the frame, like the crowd in Ratchet and Clank and zooming in on that and you can just see in one frame what the difference looks like. That is a great way to indicate what it'll be like. And I think that was a smart move. And it does heighten me. Like I want to see, I always want to see what the best looking version of a PlayStation game can look like. That's just appealing to me, frankly.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, it is interesting that they sort of identified the anxiety and kind of stress that people have when they have to make this choice between performance mode and fidelity mode. And you usually have to make it the moment you boot up the game where like you maybe don't even know. Like, you know, we know the difference between the two. It's you know, frame rate versus extra whiz bang graphical effects. But like in each specific game I have to Google is it worth doing fidelity mode or performance mode? Is this the kind of game where I'm really going to want and feel that 60fps or not? And I'm a very informed consumer and I'm able to make those choices in an informed way. But if you're a normie casual gamer, it's confusing and the elimination of that of you can just have both and now you get to play the game, you know, infidelity mode, but at performance mode, frame rates like, you know, that's, that's completely valid. It's really, look, it's the price, it's the price tag. That's it. If this thing was 500 bucks and it was replacing the PS5, this conversation would be completely valid.

[Damon Hatfield]

I'd be really stoked about it. If you make it 550 still at a premium. But like, I mean, I guess it's 550 already in some parts of the world.

[Justin Davis]

I don't want to defend corporations, but my guess is that if they could sell it for 550, they would. Right? Because the PS5 just saw a price increase in Japan. Right. Like this thing is still selling for 500. You look on the other side and Xbox is. I mean they're not getting any cheaper either, right? And so I think if. I think it's either one of two things, it's either a, they're saying, hey, we physically cannot make this console any cheaper than $500. So the only way around that is we're going to have to sell the Pro for more. Or they're refusing to subsidize the cost anymore, which is a known thing that console manufacturers have always done, which is eat the cost of the hardware in favor of gaining price from the software. And I, it kind of makes me think like, especially with like Concord's recent failure and Astrobot not being the biggest seller that you could, you know, that I think they maybe thought it was going to be. It kind of shows that it's like, hey, we can't really depend on like eating the cost of hardware if our software is not selling like it used to.

[Damon Hatfield]

We have that decision like they used to.

[Greg Miller]

Maybe this thing.

[Justin Davis]

Exactly.

[Greg Miller]

Maybe this was $599 until they shut down Concord and then they had an emergency meeting like make it699. Instead.

[Justin Davis]

Here's something I think would have changed. Yesterday's. Like yesterday we would have had a completely different day if they. Because Damon, you listed everything that the console is coming with, but you left one thing out, which is that it is shipping with a 2 terabyte SSD.

[Damon Hatfield]

That's nice.

[Justin Davis]

Nobody cares about this 2 terabyte SSD apparently, right? Xbox is selling. Their highest priced Xbox right now is the one that comes out mid October, which is a two terabyte. It's their new like Starry Edition Xbox. It's a two terabyte Xbox for $600.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, terabytes are not cheap.

[Justin Davis]

If the Pro had launched, if the Pro was going to launch with a 1 TB hard drive, I think they would have hit that 6 or 650 price point and it would have done the world. It would have done them a lot of favors. But instead they're shipping with a 2 terabyte and it's coming because it is the enthusiast price. Right. Want the best looking graphics. And it comes, it has to come with a big. Because those Pro patches are big. So it has to come with a big hard drive and that priced them above what people are looking at. But like nobody's, nobody's looking at it in that form. And so I feel like Sony could have done themselves a favor by being like the 1 TB model 600, the 2 TB model 700. And I think, I think yesterday would have went way different.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah, well, I mean. Go ahead, Sam.

[Ethan Gach]

Well, I was going to say like 6, 9, 12 months from now. I really want to know, like, did this solve the optimization problems that we're seeing with this generation? So, so many games are coming out and they're really fun and they're not. They're not either optimized or they're maybe not even optimizable. Like the developers are having problems getting games running on these consoles and it's bad if that becomes a permanent part of gaming. If we have a PS6 and it launches with like, well, Ubisoft has this kind of hitchy Star wars game, open world game on it. And that's crazy to me. You should have three years of good optimization or something like that, and then things get a little bit shaky. But we launched this generation with cyberpunk. It's a problem. And I don't know where that problem is. But like, there's something about, you know, Mark Cerny talking about this and he's not talking about so you got all these PlayStation games looking great, but he's not saying, and we're making it so easy for people to develop us on the PlayStation 5 that you're going to see a whole library of updates when this comes out. Like that would be something to be a little bit reassuring. But like, man, like Starfield has problems, you know, Outlaws has problems. I don't like where your time, I mean, Nintendo like six or seven years to get to a Pokemon game that hitched up, but then they did and now they need a new system to solve that. But like the PS5 out of the box, it's had these issues. I hate them. Like I want them, I want them to have this win, you know?

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, just, just this year alone, the ones that spring to mind are rebirth, Dragon's Dogma 2, Star wars outlaws and Sorry, I know we all love it and it's the top game right now, but Space Marine, Space Maran 2 runs, quite frankly, not great on consoles. I'm playing in the speed mode, which is the performance mode. And there are just, you know, thousands of aliens on screen and you go from 60fps in interiors to it's not even 30, it's sub 30 for sure. And then there's a later cutscene where it's sub 10. Like it hitches. But it's just so damn fun that I don't care.

[Ethan Gach]

That's the market research Right. They're like, just put out a fun game and people won't care. However, it's skewing review scores down and I think that's where it's going to start changing people's opinions about like, I could play Star wars forever and I like it. I think Outlaws is really fun, but like, it didn't the Metacritic average just like, not where they want it to be.

[Damon Hatfield]

Sure.

[Greg Miller]

You know, yeah, there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. Like video games are sort of like not in a great state right now overall from like a big picture standpoint, like, you know, for performance reasons, you know, game development costs spiraling out of control. But like, you know, you, you brought it up a minute ago saying like, these consoles, all three consoles have never had a price drop. The PS5 and Xbox are four years old and they're still $500. The Switch is seven years old and it's never had a price drop. It is still US$299. And they released a Switch Lite that was, you know, cheaper. But like, like, we used to be in a cycle of like whatever your primary console was, get that first and then you would have the smorgasbord. It was the best feeling in the world, especially as like a teen or as a younger gamer, like, wait three or four years and you can get the next console for, you know, $200 or $250.

[Ethan Gach]

And all the console generation with all three was always really fun.

[Greg Miller]

It was so great. And like, you know, all the games would be 20 bucks and the console would be whatever it was. And like that's just, that's just gone and we're actually moving the opposite direction. Sony quietly raised the price of the dual shock controller. $5, like move in the wrong direction.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yep.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, I also, and you know, we had, we had an equivalent thing this week that the iPhone stuff is like totally nuts. Like, prices of iPhones are like completely crazy. I will say that they develop towards interesting things more like Nintendo. Sometimes, like, I think like, they're like, hey, if you want to be a photographer and you know, you want a phone that can be, you know, a camera, then we're making, we're making this for you. Like, I like that. Then they show like one that's like, this is first you want to make movies. I'm like, well, I don't know what the audience is for that.

[Damon Hatfield]

But no, I don't think you need cameras. Always impressive Filmmaker wants to make movies with their phone.

[Justin Davis]

There's a There's a shot in Wolf of Wall Street. There's one shot that's shot with an iPhone.

[Greg Miller]

Ooh.

[Justin Davis]

Oh, really?

[Ethan Gach]

That's funny.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah. When they, when they do the Notorious, like, plane scene, there's a shot of the. What is it? The seatbelt light turning off. And as they were leaving the set, Martin Scorsese goes, we didn't get the shot of the seatbelt. And he shot it on his iPhone and they left it in the movie. So that's like.

[Ethan Gach]

You think that's a real story?

[Justin Davis]

I mean, as far as I know, it's real. Like, I don't. I mean, I read it on the Internet.

[Ethan Gach]

Well, yeah, like in the new Lord of the Rings Hunt for Gollum, they're like walking away, like, oh, we were supposed to get Gandalf smoke. Blow that smoke ring.

[Greg Miller]

There's those GoPro shots in the Hobbit when they're barreling down the river.

[Ethan Gach]

They're so bad.

[Damon Hatfield]

The Hobbit is so bad.

[Justin Davis]

I want to. I want to give one more, like, thoughts on yesterday's thing. I was super surprised that they showed the box and that they showed the price. Usually when Mark Cerny gets on there, it's for him to be super techy and nerdy and ask for pictures of your ear and stuff like that. And I thought that that's all it was going to be, was going to just be your normal Mark Cerny. Here's what we've been doing in the lab. And then the. I didn't expect pre orders, which we didn't get, but I didn't expect anything. And then I expected the rumored State of Play Showcase for later September. And that is when they're going to show Ghost 2 Wolverine, all that stuff and then end it with, and here's the PS5 Pro for $700. And I feel like that would have been a much easier pill to swallow because now you've seen all these things and they're doing it in reverse. I still believe that showcase is going to exist.

[Ethan Gach]

So they're like, hey, this is coming out in three months to PlayStation F.

[Justin Davis]

But dude, have we thought about what the future potential of this thing is going to be? I know there's all the GTA talk, right? Like, is it going to run at 30fps, blah, blah, blah, Which I don't think it will. This is just a kind of an overclock. CPU and CPUs are what control the frame rates for games like that because they're so CPU bound. Probably going to be 30fps. But are we going to live in a world we have not had console disparity like this? And like, I can't think pretty much ever, right. The Xbox 360 launched a year before PS3, but since then, every console has released within the, within weeks of each.

[Damon Hatfield]

Other or one week, right.

[Justin Davis]

By every. Like, from what we can tell, Red.

[Ethan Gach]

Dead looked on PS4.

[Justin Davis]

No, no, I think it's going to look fine. But what I'm saying, what I'm saying is, is if this is all to be believed, that the PS4, like, this is going to be the best console to play Xbox's Indiana Jones, like, that's so weird. And if Starfield ends up getting that, you know, secret summer release and Forza Horizon 5, that is like not a great position for Xbox to be in.

[Damon Hatfield]

That's true.

[Justin Davis]

To be releasing games on a more, you know, because the world's most powerful console is now obviously the PS5 Pro. That catchphrase has never really worked for Xbox because like, obviously it didn't sell Xboxes, they're selling like five to one. But it's like it's, it's concerning when PlayStation is getting all their exclusives and they're getting Microsoft games and those are just the best way to play those games now. It's.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, maybe they'll make it. Maybe they'll make Indiana Jones run really poorly on the PS5 Pro.

[Justin Davis]

Right. Like just intentionally, you know, so just.

[Ethan Gach]

Talking about the form factor and what the console looks like, just real quick because I know we're spending a lot of time with this. I think it looks better than the PS5. I'm glad that they defanged it, took off those fins and then I think it's lucky that, you know, it's not chipping with a vertical stand, which I don't really know what that means. Can you lean it up against your bookcase? And it works just fine. Like, you know, you don't have to put in a disc. So like, if you're not going to jiggle it a whole lot, maybe it's fine. I hope it works sitting down on its damn side. That's the hardest thing with the current PS5 is you put it on the side without the little thing being perfectly set up and it rocks around and it's just all sorts goofy and, you know, they needed to do that. So I like how they like if I think this looks stupid because I think the PlayStation 5 looks stupid, but I think it's a smarter way to get at their stupid design. Like it's compact, it's in a rectangle and it still looks like a PS5. It doesn't need to look like a PS5. I still think that the Xbox refrigerator is the funniest, like most practical console out there right now. But you know, I think this did a much better job in PS5. I wish it would always like this.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, no disc, no PS, no Blu Ray drive is a bummer for $700.

[Justin Davis]

It's, it's like, it's like selling out right now.

[Damon Hatfield]

I know.

[Justin Davis]

Like it's like Amazon's 8th most like sold item right now because, because the current slim one works for the new console. So people are like, well, might as well spend the 80 bucks now and just have it. Which is, I mean I might do the same thing.

[Damon Hatfield]

There's so many things they could have done to soften the blowback. Announce a game. Announce a game. Sony, you're known for AAA prestige single player games. Announce something. Include the disc drive, include the vertical stand. I don't know, I'm pretty engaged.

[Justin Davis]

You could have shown Wolverine.

[Damon Hatfield]

I know, we know it's coming. I'm a very engaged PlayStation user. My PS5 is on every day for hours a day. I use it for both gaming and streaming services. But I'm a pretty engaged user. But I'm not going to buy a PS5 Pro. Justin said he's not going to. Mark, you're the one said that you are actually excited about it. Can you tell us why?

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, well, because he's gonna get one.

[Ethan Gach]

Through IGN to capture games at four.

[Justin Davis]

That is not true. My boss is on this call and I already asked him if I can expense it and he said no. I've wanted a second. I've wanted a second PS5 for a while and ever since the Pro rumors of swirled, I've held off. So this is just like, it's just kind of a no brainer to finally go for it because I always am right. If you look at past scoops, there's usually a PS5 right here. It's in the living room right now because I'm always just switching between the two and I have to carry it and luckily I have cords on both sides so I don't have to do those but I have to carry it and it'll be nice to just keep my PS5 out there and then I'll have the Pro in here for like work stuff and all that good stuff.

[Ethan Gach]

You should get the Pro and then get the handheld thing and then only stream it at that Crappy resolution solution.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah. I was playing Astrobot the other day at my desk using the portal, and my wife walked in. Yeah, my wife walked in and she's like, why? And I'm like, I don't know. I just wanted to see if it would work. And then I got engaged. But also, like, as a, as I've kind of grown up as like a PC like, enthusiast in the sense of like, I've lived in the world of PC upgrades for a long time. So this is the console users aren't ready for the PC style of selling things. Right. So, like when Nvidia releases their 40 Series card, they're going to release the cheapest one for $300, the 4060. And then they're going to release the most expensive one, the 4090, for nearly $2,000. That's just the way I look at what's happening here. You're having options. There's nothing about the Pro that's taking your PS5 away from you. The only thing it's taking from you is you're falling for the iPhone trap. Most people like having the newest of something and they're not going to be able to say they have the newest of something.

[Ethan Gach]

Not most people, 10% of people.

[Justin Davis]

Well, and that's why the existence of a PS5 Pro kind of, I feel like, enrages people, Right. Like people have an iPhone 15 now. The 16 announced that phone existing does not change your 15. But you no longer have the newest thing anymore and that hurts you. And I think I hear you. I think that's where social media gets kind of in people's heads.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah. And also it's just different with the PS4 Pro. It came in at the same price as the PS4, so pretty much anyone who was sort of in that ecosystem could probably afford to still participate. But now it's just going to be priced out for a lot of people. It's just going to be too expensive.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah. I want to be clear. I don't give a crap if this thing doesn't sell. Why do. I don't care. I'm going to buy one. Not telling you.

[Ethan Gach]

Here's my pitch for PS Pros or the Xbox Pro, I think. So what you're getting with these is they always shrink them down, Right. And they get more powerful. I say they make a version that's just really big and ugly and it's, you know, for that reason alone, they've already done that. You save money, you know, like this big, dumb, big box that's super Ugly. And then you know, it has these kind of off the shelf components and it can play your PlayStation games really well. That's. That would be nice because you can do that when you build a PC.

[Damon Hatfield]

The whole scenario reminds me. When I was in junior high, my best friend had an older brother who was quite a bit older, like 10 or 15 years older and was sick. So he had a real job and was single and just had tons of disposable income. And he just bought, he bought a three do. He bought a laser display. He just had all this like weird stuff that was just expensive and no one else had to have that. That's what this reminds me of. It's that type of person who's going to buy a PS5 Pro.

[Greg Miller]

Yep.

[Justin Davis]

I do want to say. And the market will decide this but, but some people's concerns are that this is setting a new precedent for what the PS6 will cost. Right. Like $500. And like. And it's like, I mean the market will decide whether or not the world is ready for a $700 console.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah. It's. The point should be made. The, the PlayStation 4 did not cost $600 when it came out like the PS3 did. So that was. The price did come down there. But I don't see how the price of the PlayStation 6 can come in at $500 in whatever 2027 when the PS5 Pro. 700.

[Ethan Gach]

Nintendo.

[Greg Miller]

Nintendo's the only company that has this figured out. They're the only one that knows what they're doing.

[Ethan Gach]

So PS3 actually had a 600 and $800 model. Is that what it was?

[Damon Hatfield]

Wait, I thought 500?

[Justin Davis]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

And then they did a 500 redo a little bit later with the 60 gig. It was the 20 gig and the 80. Right?

[Justin Davis]

Yeah.

[Greg Miller]

599 US dollars was the one that most people bought. There might have been a gimped 499 version. Like a not very good 499. I can't quite recall but like 599, that was the one that everybody wanted.

[Justin Davis]

There's the 40 gig version that ran that was backwards compatible with PS2 games. Those are kind of rare now.

[Ethan Gach]

I think it's 20.

[Greg Miller]

That's the one that I have 60.

[Ethan Gach]

I'm pretty sure that's what it is.

[Justin Davis]

Oh it might be.

[Ethan Gach]

You're right. You're right about that. That's the one to get. Yeah. Because it has the actual hardware for PS1 and PS2 in it to run them perfectly. And you just got to Keep one of those. Right?

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, mine has. Mine has the yellow light of death now, sadly, but.

[Ethan Gach]

Oh, no, I forgot about that. It's such a pretty color of amber, though. Wrap a towel around it, see what happens.

[Greg Miller]

It won't help, but you could still do it.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, can't see the light.

[Damon Hatfield]

Okay. PS5 Pro will be very interesting to see what happens with that. We'll be watching its career with great interest. Let's talk about Space Marine 2. Both Mark and Justin are both playing this, and I think you guys like it a lot.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Sam Claiborne]

So, first of all, I have questions.

[Greg Miller]

I like it.

[Damon Hatfield]

So I've never played any Warhammer game, and I don't know anything about Warhammer, but now all of a sudden, everyone's talking about this game, which I felt like it used to be kind of niche. What is happening?

[Greg Miller]

Well, be careful, Damon, because I played this game, and now the last couple evenings, I've been watching Warhammer lore videos on YouTube. So you might end up. You might end up becoming one of these guys.

[Damon Hatfield]

Oh, no. There's a Warhammer store in my city.

[Greg Miller]

Oh, my God. Don't. Like. Dude, don't. Just. Just don't. No, I mean, I think I've played. I'll share my experience and then, Mark, you can share more, because I like. What I did was I played the first couple missions, and then our reviewer, Chris Reed, wanted some help testing out the multiplayer, and so I played some multiplayer with him. And so my experience with the game, and I'm not going to spoil any story here, don't worry. But in the beginning, you know, the story is one thing. And then I joined, like, the second to last mission, and I'm like, what is happening? Like, that was. My experience with the game was like, I have no idea where I am or who I'm fighting. And so, again, no spoilers, but the story just goes places. I was. I was deeply, deeply confused. And, yeah, no, I like the game. I never realized how much Gears of War is clearly. Clearly like Warhammer. Right. Like, I just. I didn't. I didn't know that. Right. But the big, chunky armor, even, like, the chainsaw guns, you know, the mix of, like, melee and sort of shooting, the sort of heavy squad. You know, you're in a squad of three for the whole game. Like, it feels way more like Gears than I was expecting or that I understood. You know, I didn't play Space Marine One, so.

[Ethan Gach]

Gray Sheen.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, and I mean that as high praise. Like, you know, it was great. I'LL leave it at that.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, it just doesn't have the like cover based combat that yeah. You're mostly known for. Other than that it straight up just feels like Gears of War game. Yeah, no, I also don't know anything about Warhammer. I didn't realize like how religious it is. And so I compare it also to. It's like Gears of War meets like let's say you're just, you're just in your Fallout 4 power armor because it not only does it kind of feel like that, it feels like you're in power armor, but also like just the religious aspects of it. Like everybody's a. You know, there's like the chaplain and it's, it's, you know, when you get a new gun, he'll say things like, you know, thank the forge for this blessing and stuff like that. Like it's very just like worshipy of the technology they use to, you know, defend Earth. I don't know anything about the lore.

[Greg Miller]

So there's tech priests that are like key sort of characters that give you missions and things like that. And these tech priests are all members of the cult Mechanicus. Like it's very like as a, you know, as a middle going on, middle aged dude. It feels very tailor made of like it, it like Warhammer and Warhammer lore and the character designs and all this stuff feels very. It's the most cynical on Earth of just like it's just skulls and technology mixed with religion and like none of it makes any sense. It's all really cheesy and really lame. But then it's also like the coolest shit I've ever seen in my life. Like it somehow manages to straddle that line of like feeling very cynically laser targeted at just like nerds who like dorky, you know, nerd deep sci fi lore stuff. But then it's like what if we had a castle but the castle was a spaceship? And they're like why is the castle spaceship? It's like, don't worry about it just looks cool. Like Warhammer. Warhammer just feels like the rule of cool distilled down of like don't think too much about any of it. Just does it look cool? Does it sound cool? Like that seems to be kind of it.

[Justin Davis]

So that's. It is a fun above all else when it comes to game design for this game. Like and it's so funny because like just this month alone we're getting Astrobot Space Marine and Dead Rising and it's like like the trio of video Game ass video games. And it's. And it's great. And we were talking about this in just other meetings. But like it's kind of a hard guide game, you know, being on the guides team because I'm like, I'm playing it and I'm like, where, where's the guide? You just shoot your guns, man. You just shoot them. You just kill aliens, man. Hell yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

Describing it, it's like an arcade run and gun game, but it's more akin to like what a brawler was like where it's like, it looks really cool, it's fun. You play it through it's popcorn and you know, it just doesn't have a lot of depth beyond that to like cover as Mark saying, as a guy. But like it doesn't matter for the game because it's fun to play through.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

This looks to me like what Contra should have ended up as. Like, what if that genre became this? You know, and that's, that's kind of what a 3D Contra could have been. It's kind of sad.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah.

[Damon Hatfield]

But there are Warhammer games coming out all the time. Why is, why is this one blowing up?

[Ethan Gach]

Because I don't strategy games. And there's Warhammer games that are set in a fantasy universe and then there's Warhammer games that are specifically gun based that are set in the 40K universe.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah. To take a step back, like, this is. This is a license. Like Warhammer is a tabletop role playing game where you have, you know, a miniature army and then you clash against someone else's miniature army. So this is, this is licensed. Right? Like it's not. The Warhammer company doesn't develop video games. This was made by Saber Interactive. And these other Warhammer video games are the same as people licensing and making, you know, games based off of people.

[Ethan Gach]

Like Vermintide a lot. Right. And that was set in the Warhammer fantasy universe, not the sci fi universe.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah.

[Greg Miller]

So there's Warhammer and then Warhammer 40K is the, is the sci fi universe. And the thing to understand is it's very sort of grim, dark. Like again, it would be cheesy and eyerolly, except somehow it manages to pull it off of just like everything is horrible. The world is horrible. Every single faction is like villainous. The whole world is war. No one knows anything but war. There's like a little blurb at the beginning of the game of like all these factions have been at war for like thousands of years. And that's just what the entire universe is now. And like, but somehow it pulls it off and it works well.

[Justin Davis]

And it's funny because they actually were able to dash a little bit of intrigue in there. I thought when I started playing I was like, I'm not going to care about any of this. And I even considered just doing a cutscene skip and just. I was like, I don't care. I just want to kill aliens. But they. Very early on, it kind of like, you know, you're like, maybe your character, which your main character's name is Titus, they're like, maybe he's not exactly who he says he is kind of deal. And then you get your squad members and they kind of talk a little like crap with each other and like to the point where they'll be saying things and you'll like walk into the room and they'll be like, oh, hello sir. Because like, they're kind of skeptical. Skeptical because like he. In the first mission, you're just put in charge of them. And so. And they don't love that. And so there is a little bit of intrigue there for people who don't know anything about Warhammer, where I'm kind of like, who is this guy? I actually am a little bit interested. But to answer your question, I think it's kind of like Dark alliance in the sense of like, people liked playing Dark alliance because they didn't know if. They didn't realize they're playing D D stuff. They're just playing a fun ass game set in the DSD universe. That's kind of how this is for me. It's just like, I don't know or care anything about Warhammer, but it's a fun game to play.

[Greg Miller]

It's good if you like see skulls on people's armor and you're like, I think that looks cool. Like, then this is the game.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Greg Miller]

Like if the show. If. If the shoulder is a skull and you're like, that's cool, then this is for you. But if the shoulder is a skull and you're like, that's lame and cheesy. Then like, maybe this is not.

[Ethan Gach]

Are we the baddies?

[Greg Miller]

That's the litmus test.

[Damon Hatfield]

Guys will see a shoulder with a skull and be like, hell yeah, Exactly. Mark, Last week we were talking about Outlaws and Astrobot. I'm still playing both of these. Do you have an opinion to levy on either?

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, Star wars is fun, but I stopped playing it in favor of Astrobot. But it's. It just got a patch that made me want to go back and and start playing through it again, which is they kind of toned down the stealth a little bit where the instant fail missions aren't as brutal, which is kind of a issue I had with the game. And so I'm interested to continue because I. I like the game Astrobot. I have the platinum trophy. I've. I've done everything in that game, and it's. It's pure delight.

[Ethan Gach]

The bad luck of the draw with that, where he was like, okay, I'm going to take on some of the later levels. And then he had to do them perfectly, capturing start to finish with all the collectibles. And they're like Mario Galaxy levels where they get really hard. So, you know, it was the worst. The worst week of Mark's life to play this 3D platformer over and over again. Get this great capture of it.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, there's no terrible with selective editing. Terrible. No, no, we don't edit our guide videos, Sam. Yeah, no, it's a great guide. We killed it, in my opinion. But I'm also the manager of the team, so it's my job to say we killed it.

[Greg Miller]

I'm on the last planet of Star Wars. I guess it's nonlinear. You can go to them in any order. I did the jungle planet last, and it's by far my least favorite one out of all of them, unfortunately. Yeah. So I was. Last week on the show, I was super, super high on the game. I'm still really high on it. It's still my game of the year. But I am sort of having to pull myself through this. This final planet. I liked the other ones a lot more.

[Ethan Gach]

I was doing the Jabba's palace first mission and then kind of talking to Jabba and stuff, and I was like. Even though that's the only real fan servicey part that I've ever played in this game, it's great.

[Greg Miller]

Yep.

[Damon Hatfield]

So they did. They got Jabba, right?

[Ethan Gach]

Yes.

[Damon Hatfield]

Dude, Jabba looks so good, unlike the Phantom Menace.

[Ethan Gach]

Eddie's so funny. He's such a dick. Yeah, he looks. He looks exactly like Return of the Jedi Jabba. It's brilliant.

[Damon Hatfield]

Hopefully he's immobile, but I do not like the Jabba that can move on.

[Ethan Gach]

He is 100% immobile. He's on his stupid platform eating frogs next to him.

[Greg Miller]

The fan service on Tatooine is crazy. Like I've said before, I'm not that big of a Star wars fan, but it's like you can navigate to the cantina in Mos Eisley just by following landmarks it's where it should be in the world. And Jabba's palace looks exactly, exactly right. Like, all that fan service is off the charts.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah. And why this doesn't trigger all of my annoyance with Star wars is that the rest of it isn't like this. Right. Like, it's just like it has this, but it's like it does the one thing that makes me really angry, which is like, well, you're gonna fight a big monster, but hey, it's a rancor. But at least its job is rancor.

[Greg Miller]

Right?

[Ethan Gach]

Because when a rancor disappears on some other planet for no reason. And that's much worse to me. So, yes, there is this fan service wedge. I like everything about it. Tatooine looks so, so good.

[Damon Hatfield]

I'm still playing it, still liking it. I think I'm six hours in and I'm only just now starting to wrap my head around, like, what gameplay loop I should be doing or what's the most fun way for me to play this game. I'm still on that first big planet, and it by itself is just. It feels huge. So. So the game feels really big. There's lots and lots of stuff to do and find. So it's taken me a while to, like, figure out how I should be playing the game, but I like it.

[Justin Davis]

Are any other planets as big as that first planet?

[Greg Miller]

They all are. Well, Tatooine is bigger, I would say.

[Justin Davis]

Well. Cause you go to the. I've only gone to the snow planet and it seems like it's just a city.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah. The snow planet is a city only. But that's like a stylist. Like, I don't feel like there was cute. What content there. That was just kind of. There's three. So that there's the starting planet, there's Tatooine and a jungle planet, and then there's the snow city. And those are the areas of the game.

[Justin Davis]

Got it. Yeah. I didn't know if it was like the. That opening. Like, that's the open world, but every time you travel, you're traveling to just like a small little hub and then.

[Ethan Gach]

You know, three open world spaces.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, exactly.

[Justin Davis]

Cool.

[Ethan Gach]

It's kind of like the Witch. It's not like the Witcher. It's not. It's not as big as those two. But in that you had Skellige and the main one and then the starting one. It's kind. I'm saying, like, the comparison is like.

[Justin Davis]

There'S two big ones.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

But in this game, there's three big ones. So they're not. They're not as big as the Witcher one. I don't really know, actually. I don't know how big Witcher is now. It's hard for me to recall.

[Damon Hatfield]

I'm also still loving Astrobot. I think we've done three of the bosses. These are not spoilers. The gorilla one, the snake one. Which one have I done?

[Justin Davis]

The serpent one. Oh, no, sorry, you said. So it's gorilla. The.

[Damon Hatfield]

Oh, the octopus one.

[Justin Davis]

Octopus, yeah.

[Damon Hatfield]

So we're in the fourth, and then the snake, the fourth planet area. Now.

[Sam Claiborne]

I wonder if my.

[Damon Hatfield]

I don't know if my son is, like, Learning about other PlayStation properties of video game characters by this. Like, we've done the God of War level and the Uncharted level, but I don't know if he's gonna, like, recognize things in the future from that. I don't know.

[Ethan Gach]

It's pretty obscured, right? It's pretty obscured in qc, so it's hard to.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah, some of them are. There are really obscure references, like the Devil Dice Bot that you get in there. It's like. I'm glad it's there. I'm glad for, like, the handful of people that are gonna know what that is.

[Ethan Gach]

Is crazy.

[Damon Hatfield]

I know that I'm over.

[Justin Davis]

There's some, like.

[Damon Hatfield]

What's that?

[Justin Davis]

I was just gonna say there's some, like, Japan only ones.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah.

[Justin Davis]

That I was like, what is this from? And I had to look it up, and it was like, oh, this is a Japan mascot. And I was like, oh, okay.

[Damon Hatfield]

I know that I'm overthinking this, but the premise gives me pause because, like, what the. There's. Your spaceship got well knocked out of orbit by the main villain, and your spaceship is a PlayStation 5. And the bots are now all scattered around these planets, and you have to rescue them all. But some of the bots are video game characters and references. But it doesn't. They just are.

[Sam Claiborne]

They are.

[Damon Hatfield]

Because that's what the developers wanted to do. There's no, like, story reason to explain that Again, I know I'm overthinking it, but that just. Yeah, that just occurred to me. It's just like, this is a reference to all these PlayStation things in their history. Just because. Just. Just to be that. But it does make me think there's a lot that they borrow from Nintendo 3D platformers. You know, like, your hover jets are a lot like Fludd in Mario Sunshine. You get long boxing gloves that are a lot like arms having to call over a certain number of Bots to build a tower and create a path for you. It's very Pikmin, like. So I just think Nintendo should do the same thing. They should make a big 3D platformer where Mario has to go to all the Nintendo worlds. He has to go to hyrule and do 3D platforming there. He has to go to a Metroid world. He has to go to a Kirby world. And that just. That just sounds great to me.

[Ethan Gach]

I saw Beetlejuice. It was really good.

[Sam Claiborne]

Oh, yeah.

[Damon Hatfield]

I hear good things. I want to see it.

[Ethan Gach]

I would see it in the theater.

[Damon Hatfield]

I mean. Yeah, if you can. I'll try.

[Ethan Gach]

That movie is so full of amazing practical effects and, like, awesome gore. There's, like, really funny, really violent stuff in it. And it's all, like, makeup.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

And, you know, hoses. It's like. It's really funny. Like, that's really good. And then, like, all of the. These great lines are given to. What's Your name? Catherine O'Hara.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

And, you know, post Schitt's Creek, she's like, one of my favorite character actors and comedian actors. She has a similar character, it turns out. Right. Because playing this kind of aloof rich lady, she's so good. And they make so much fun of Winona Ryder as a kid, being a little goth kid. It's so great. And every. Everything lands and Michael Keaton is remarkable. And I don't know, I just. I. You know, we kept on turning to each other. I just like, mouths agape with, like, what they were doing with, like, either a scene was so funny or a scene was so visually interesting. It's just so worth seeing in the theater if you can see it.

[Damon Hatfield]

That sounds great. I'd love to see that. I still haven't seen Alien either. I would like to catch that in theaters if I can.

[Greg Miller]

There.

[Ethan Gach]

Look at that gore. You see that? See the guts coming out there? That's great.

[Justin Davis]

What movie did you say, Damon?

[Damon Hatfield]

Alien. Romulus.

[Ethan Gach]

Alien.

[Justin Davis]

Oh, okay.

[Ethan Gach]

Yep. I'm gonna check that out before it leaves theaters.

[Damon Hatfield]

But, Mark, I was saying last week, I finished Sugar and I liked it.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah.

[Damon Hatfield]

But I ended up figuring out the spoiler way ahead of time.

[Greg Miller]

But I feel good.

[Justin Davis]

Did I oversell it?

[Damon Hatfield]

No, it wasn't.

[Justin Davis]

By saying how good it was. Okay. I mean, it's fine.

[Damon Hatfield]

I still enjoyed it. I still enjoyed the show. I do have a question, though. I want to talk about a spoiler of that. So if viewers, listeners, if you want to skip ahead two minutes. Okay. Ready at the end. Colin Farrell. Decides to stay. Right?

[Justin Davis]

Yeah.

[Damon Hatfield]

And his like alien race is fine with that. No one, he's allowed to just do that. I know they would be forced.

[Justin Davis]

They almost impossible. They almost implied that he would not get a choice three episodes ago. And then it seems with very little resistance he's like, I'll just stick around.

[Ethan Gach]

They resolve their problem though of having a serial killer on the planet. So without them having some kind of internal battles over this, they can just leave him behind and be like, yeah, we're done with Earth or something.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah. I mean it's left open ended. Right. I assumed there will be consequences if.

[Damon Hatfield]

They can do a season two.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, well, and it's. They've also said like, they say that it's like a one way trip or that it's like it's leave now or you're not leaving. So maybe it's not implied that like he's not allowed to leave, but more like you better make sure that this is the correct decision you're making. It's really hard when you binge shows because now I don't remember anything about it because I watched it all in like two days because we got addicted and the episodes are short, which I very much appreciate.

[Ethan Gach]

I like that too actually. I like how it's broken up into the short. It's ended really well. It's just like the show. It's just like kind of a bam bam bam effect that works really well with its like noir feel.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

Makes LA gorgeous too.

[Justin Davis]

Sponsored by Tesla. This had so many Teslas in this.

[Ethan Gach]

Show, yet the only body in the show is in the rear trunk and not the front trunk.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah.

[Damon Hatfield]

Anyway, I like them.

[Justin Davis]

Great show. Also notable, I watched it because Justin talked about it a lot and so I'm glad it spread.

[Damon Hatfield]

I'm almost done with Terminator 0, which I'm liking enough to finish it. But it's not on the same level, I don't think as Castlevania or Cyberpunk Edgerunners or other recent or Blue Eyed Samurai. It's not anywhere near as good as those. It's well made, the animation's great, it's watchable.

[Ethan Gach]

Or what was the alien show that was so good this year?

[Damon Hatfield]

Scavengers range definitely not on the same level as Scavenger's reign. They're just hitting too many of the same beats. There's a Terminator sent back in time to stop someone who's interfering with Skynet. The human resistance also sends someone back in time to stop the Terminator. There's a big shootout scene in a police station. It's just all the same beats that are very familiar, but as people have said, it's the best Terminator thing since Terminator 2. The bar is very, very low, so do not go into it thinking it's going to be as good as T2. But.

[Sam Claiborne]

Did you know Cleopatra married not one but two of her brothers and police in Victorian London had to wear their uniforms all the time, even when off duty? If you're an Assassin's Creed fan like me, then you'll want to know everything about the real history that inspires the games and I have a podcast recommendation for you. Echoes of History Echoes of History, a podcast brought to you by history hit and Ubisoft, takes you back to the past to discover the real history behind the Assassin's Creed video games. Every three episodes they examine an era explored in the games. Historian and Assassin's Creed mega fan Matt Lewis talks to world leading experts to step into the shoes of the real historical people you meet in the games, to take an eagle eye view of iconic locations you can climb, and to reveal the causes and events of the epic historical moments you get to relive and assemble Assassin's Creed. Find out the true history behind the Assassin's Creed games by following the Echoes of History podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I love a great deal as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to crawl through a bed of hot coals just to save a few bucks. It has to be easy. No hoops, no bs. So when Mint Mobile said it was easy to get wireless for just $15 a month with the purchase of a three month plan, I had to find out if it's too good to be true. Turns out it really is that easy to get wireless for 15 bucks. A the longest part of the process will be the time you spend on hold waiting to break up with your old provider. Isn't that right Seth?

[Seth]

I am not going to lie. I was very pleased and very excited to find out Mint Mobile works even for me in the middle of nowhere, Maine. I was honestly expecting to be shut out from all the fun of Mint Mobile, but it worked.

[Justin Davis]

Awesome.

[Seth]

I loaded in my code and to test it out I just drove out. I'm not even lying. It sounds like I'm making this. I just drove out into the woods of Maine to see how far I could go without losing coverage. And I am happy to say I did not have any coverage interruptions whatsoever that I would not have experienced with any of the other providers. That alone is enough to sell me. Because look, Maine is a big state. There's a lot of woods. Stephen King is here.

[Justin Davis]

So it's haunted.

[Seth]

There's ghosts everywhere and everyone knows that ghosts. Journalists hate 5G, but I am happy to say I have literally no complaints. It's inexpensive, there's no contract, I don't have to have all these weird hidden fees. And you know, best of all, it works in spite of ghosts.

[Sam Claiborne]

Thanks Seth. Say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages, all Mint Mobile plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Find out how easy it is to switch to Mint Mobile to get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan, including the unlimited plan for just 15 bucks a month. Go to mintmobile.com gamescoop that's mintmobile.com gamescoop cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com gamescoop $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a month new customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigs on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Men when we leave the house, it's phone, wallet, keys and how's my hair look? But if you're experiencing hair loss, you may not be so confident when you step out your door. It's time to get that mojo back and restore your hair with himz. HIMZ provides you with convenient access to a range of hair loss treatments that work all from the comfort of your couch, so you barely even have to pause whatever game you're playing. HIMS makes treating hair loss simple with doctor trusted options and clinically proven ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil that can regrow hair in as little as as three to six months. The process is simple and 100% online, so there are no uncomfortable doctor visits. Answer a few questions and a medical provider will determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment is sent directly to you in discreet packaging with free shipping. No insurance is needed and one low price covers everything. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers and they can help you get your confidence back too, with visibly thicker and fuller hair. Search your free online Visit [e-mail] Gamescoop that's hims.com Gamescope for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Hims.com Gamescoop results vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. Dell Technologies Black Friday event is live and if you've been waiting for an AI ready PC, this is their biggest sale of the year. Tech enthusiasts love this sale because it's all the newest hits plus all the great greatest hits all on sale at once. Savings on Dell technologies. Most popular PCs that accelerate AI with Intel Core Ultra processors are here, like the XPS 16. So if you're ready to step up all the things you like to do, streaming, surfing, multitasking, whatever, Dell Technologies AI Ready PCs are the perfect upgrade. And for the best of Intel Core Ultra processors, look for Intel EVO Edition laptops engineered to do it all. Just visit Dell.com deals whether you're treating yourself or thinking of others, these Black Friday prices were worth the wait. But it's only here for a limited time. Shop [e-mail] deals.

[Damon Hatfield]

Okay, we're totally running out of time. We'll save egm for another day when it's more of a slow news week. But real quick, before we do video game 20 questions. They nerfed the final boss in Erdtree. Mark, I might be able to finish.

[Justin Davis]

I know you still have it.

[Damon Hatfield]

Well, because I moved on to other games.

[Justin Davis]

It too hard. I mean you just stopped trying.

[Damon Hatfield]

I need a break from that. I went on to Black Myth, playing Astrobot, playing Star Wars. So I've just been playing other games. But now I guess I'll go back and see if I can beat it now.

[Greg Miller]

I mean they've nerfed it.

[Ethan Gach]

I've nerfed the boss. What's the nerf?

[Damon Hatfield]

I love my favorite. It just says like patch note is change the action pattern when the battle starts. Because that was part of. That was part of part of what was so frustrating because you can't do.

[Ethan Gach]

Your cast as well.

[Damon Hatfield]

He just leaps at you right away and kills you in like three hits. That's like how the.

[Justin Davis]

That's, that's like every boss in Erdtree but it matters the most against him because he is just. Yeah, he's unrelenting. He. He doesn't follow the rules that every other elder ring boss is supposed to have, which is they are supposed to have a stamina bar. And he just goes, nope, I could attack forever.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah. But just like Justin ruined sugar for you, Mark ruined this final boss in Elden Ring ruined.

[Damon Hatfield]

It was ruined.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, I like, I like that the game the, the erdtree's been nerfed twice now. And so it just, it just shows that souls gamers, you know, they can't handle the video game journalists mode. They couldn't handle the game journal mode of verdure.

[Justin Davis]

Maybe you guys will be as good as game journalists now.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yep, I did, yeah, I did see some annoying commentary being like I would feel so ashamed if I beat the boss now. It's just like oh my God.

[Justin Davis]

Anyway, I can't imagine anything in life mattering less to me than when I beat a boss in a game.

[Greg Miller]

I heard an interesting op ed or it was a YouTube video or something about how like you know that sort of toxic element of souls like fandom of like it's so hard and you know you're a bad fan if you use summons and if you use like yada yada yada, it's like all of that. The original demon Souls was intended to be you know, fairly social. Right. Like you could leave hints in tips for other players and like you know, being able to summon people into your game and that element of like, you know you're cheating yourself if you use these tools that are in the game that came from the US marketing for Dark Souls and it's prepared and it's prepare to die slogan like that. Prepare to die and like that whole positioning of these games came from marketing and not much of it is actually in the text of the games. Like the text of the games encourage you to make use of all the tools that you can to get through it it and like if people want to challenge themselves and play it that way like fine, like whatever. Like play the game however you want but like don't project that out onto other people.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, yeah. The argument has always been don't use summons in Elden Ring and it's like okay, then where does it end? Don't use swords, don't use armor, don't level up. Like where does that end?

[Ethan Gach]

Why is turn off the television.

[Greg Miller]

Like and if people want to do that for themselves, as I said like more power to you dude. Like find your own fun in it. But like, but the sort of projection out onto the community and onto other people, that's all of that is a made up and it's an outskirt of a marketing campaign and edgelord culture.

[Damon Hatfield]

Right?

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

So they make DDR pads for a reason. People get one or go home.

[Justin Davis]

It also matters so little outside the scope of social media. I have the Elden Ring platinum. History will show that. I have the Platinum for that game, it doesn't matter that I beat Melania with gear from Shadow of the Yard Tree. Nobody cares. I have the Elden ring platinum, and that's all anybody will ever remember.

[Ethan Gach]

Well, also, we have statistics. Y'all use strategy guides, so.

[Justin Davis]

Sure.

[Damon Hatfield]

Come on, people.

[Ethan Gach]

You just do.

[Damon Hatfield]

People do care about video game 20 questions. And that brings us to a suggestion. This week comes from Nolan in Phoenix, Arizona.

[Sam Claiborne]

Let the questioning.

[Ethan Gach]

Hey, I grew up there. Well, Scottsdale. All right.

[Greg Miller]

Did this game come out in the 70s, 80s or 90s?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes.

[Ethan Gach]

Was it an arcade game?

[Damon Hatfield]

No.

[Ethan Gach]

Okay, so you couldn't have played a video roundup in South Scottsdale? Paradise Valley Mall.

[Greg Miller]

Did it originally come out in the 90s?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes.

[Greg Miller]

Was it a multi platform game?

[Damon Hatfield]

Not at the time.

[Justin Davis]

Okay, so it's something that's become ported to the newer consoles.

[Damon Hatfield]

Some people hate it when I give you hints like that and don't just answer binary yes or no, by the way. But whatever. We're all here to have fun.

[Justin Davis]

But that's why this version of 20 questions is much easier than the website version. I tried playing the website version and I fail. And I'm like, it's because I don't have Damon smiling every time. Those are half the hints.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with Justin and I.

[Damon Hatfield]

Mark.

[Ethan Gach]

All right, so let's. Was this on our Nintendo platform first?

[Damon Hatfield]

No. That's five.

[Greg Miller]

Same question. Sega?

[Damon Hatfield]

No.

[Ethan Gach]

Oh, was this a PlayStation 1 game?

[Damon Hatfield]

No. Yo, hold on.

[Justin Davis]

What? I was about to be in my element for the first time, so hold on.

[Greg Miller]

So not sega, not Nintendo. And I'm glad we asked it the way that we asked it, because it's not handheld either. Unless something weird. Yeah, PC is possible. I mean, obviously TurboGrafx is possible. Was this originally a PC game?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes.

[Ethan Gach]

Maybe it's Riven. It's on everything now.

[Greg Miller]

90S 90s PC game.

[Ethan Gach]

Was this a CD ROM based game?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes. Yes.

[Ethan Gach]

Cool.

[Greg Miller]

So that's the coolest kind could be missed.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, could be any of those. Could be, you know, Command and Conquer Lizard game.

[Greg Miller]

The CD ROM question is a good question because it eliminates all the, like, the late DOS games.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah. Lemmings. At all.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

Sim.

[Justin Davis]

Is this a franchise where sequels to the game are still, you know, maybe not sequels, but the series is still going today.

[Damon Hatfield]

No, we're gonna say, oh, maybe it's wing commander. That's 10.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah. So it's not Doom or anything. And obviously not.

[Greg Miller]

Although when. Well, just when I had Doom 2, it came on like a Big stack of floppy disks. They didn't come on CD rom.

[Damon Hatfield]

Oh, yeah.

[Ethan Gach]

They did a lot of games that way. Famously. Zork, this very famous CD ROM game, has a 13 disc stack game too. Yes. Completely crazy.

[Greg Miller]

Yep. Did this game have FMV sequences in it?

[Damon Hatfield]

I don't know, but it was on.

[Greg Miller]

CD rom, which was a lot of the reason to do scenes like that, like in Wing Commander Mist or Riven.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, for sure.

[Greg Miller]

But Damon didn't say. No, he just said, think about how.

[Justin Davis]

Many, like, famous actors were in, like, Command and Conquer cutscenes.

[Ethan Gach]

Would you describe this game as a adventure game?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes.

[Greg Miller]

Oh, okay.

[Ethan Gach]

That narrows it. So, yeah, I think we're looking at the seventh guests. The myths, the Rivens.

[Greg Miller]

I. Yeah. Is it helpful to know if it's first person? I think so. We got questions to burn. Is this a first person perspective game?

[Damon Hatfield]

No.

[Greg Miller]

Okay, so it's not obviously, Mr. Riven. I actually can't quite recall if you can see.

[Ethan Gach]

So the dig.

[Greg Miller]

Something like that.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, that was in cd. I had it on cd.

[Justin Davis]

Monkey Island. I don't. I don't know much about that series.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah, Monkey island or, you know, King's Quest. Like, is it Lucas.

[Ethan Gach]

It's LucasArts.

[Justin Davis]

Right?

[Ethan Gach]

That's the company at the time. This is a LucasArts game?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes.

[Greg Miller]

Okay.

[Ethan Gach]

Okay. Okay.

[Greg Miller]

Is this a. Is this a Monkey island game?

[Damon Hatfield]

No.

[Greg Miller]

Could be Sam and Max.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, that's a good one. Could be.

[Greg Miller]

What was the Tim Schaefer one? Yeah, exactly.

[Ethan Gach]

It's Grim Vandanga. Yeah.

[Greg Miller]

Grim Fandango. I bet it's probably Grim Fandango. Actually, I bet it's Grim Fandango.

[Ethan Gach]

Those all very different graphic styles.

[Justin Davis]

Right. In the last three minutes, have we said the name of the game?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, we said them all.

[Greg Miller]

Well, how many questions do we have, Damon?

[Damon Hatfield]

You've asked 14.

[Greg Miller]

Okay. Does this game have any sequels or is it just a one off? Is it a one. Is it a one off?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes.

[Justin Davis]

That's 15.

[Ethan Gach]

So that's not Grim. Right. Because that's not Grimake.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah. So did it get to. Well, no, Grim Fandango. It got a remake. So that's the only one. So. Okay. I don't know why I asked that. What does that help me eliminate that eliminate joint?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes.

[Justin Davis]

Yeah, it's probably Grim. Damn Dingo.

[Greg Miller]

But he also made. Shoot, he made one more. He made. Oh, but we didn't mention the name of it because I couldn't. It was Full Throttle and we didn't.

[Justin Davis]

Full Throttle was the.

[Greg Miller]

That was the one. I Couldn't think of. But we know it's not that.

[Ethan Gach]

What is it is Grim Fandango the one with a dog.

[Justin Davis]

You play as like death. Obviously you're in the.

[Ethan Gach]

It's not that long.

[Greg Miller]

You're in the. You're in like the underworld, you know, basically. And then it's all like skeletons. It's like. It's very Tim Burton esque. Is it? Okay, I'm just gonna. Is it Grim Fandango?

[Damon Hatfield]

Yes, it is Grim Fandango, 1998. But available today on everything because of the remaster.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, the remaster looks sharp, huh? Maybe this is the original. I have no idea.

[Damon Hatfield]

Yeah.

[Greg Miller]

Yeah. I don't know that I've ever played through this whole thing, but I do have a fondness for this game.

[Damon Hatfield]

I like it to PlayStation Plus, I want to say. So I dabbled with it then, but I've never sat down and actually played through the whole thing. Although I do like Tim.

[Ethan Gach]

I don't think it has FMV in it either.

[Damon Hatfield]

If it did, but I just don't know.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah, awesome.

[Damon Hatfield]

Nicely job.

[Ethan Gach]

That was a good one.

[Damon Hatfield]

Got there. Thank you for the suggestion, Nolan in Phoenix, Arizona. Viewers and listeners, if you have your own suggestions for video game 20 questions, email them to me at the email address gamescoop.com and that is all the scoops that we have for you this week. Thank you, Sam. Thank you, Justin. Thank you, Mark. Thank you to everyone working behind the scenes to make this episode possible. My name is Damon. This is IGN gamescoop. And we're out.

[Laura]

Realms of Peril and Glory.

[Greg Miller]

From one shots to campaigns, indie games to established titles.

[Laura]

Join Liz, Laura, Z. Jack, James, Maddie, Naomi and Pip.

[Greg Miller]

I wrote the natural 20. Yes. And a rotating cast of incredible guests. I am Johnny Chiadini.

[Ethan Gach]

Jasper William Cartwright, Grant Howitt, Sharmini Bundel.

[Laura]

As we weave thrilling new stories with.

[Greg Miller]

Gorgeous sound design and beautiful original music.

[Laura]

Search Realms of Peril and Glory. Wherever you listen to podcasts, nothing is as it seems in liminal London. Hidden amongst everyday people are werewolves.

[Greg Miller]

You'll be the werewolf then.

[Ethan Gach]

Yeah.

[Greg Miller]

And Megs.

[Laura]

Wizards.

[Greg Miller]

Montgomery, Archibald Barker at your bloody service.

[Laura]

And those cursed by the fey monarchs of the city.

[Damon Hatfield]

Declan Buchanan, PI.

[Greg Miller]

He has quite a large pair of antlers growing out of his forehead.

[Laura]

Join the unlikely misfits of liminal London as they work to take down the powers that claim to rule the city.

[Damon Hatfield]

I think the queen doesn't like you very much.

[Laura]

With incredible guest players like Johnny Chiadini.

[Greg Miller]

You say there's sludge?

[Justin Davis]

Yeah. Sludge, yeah. I'm the sludge boy.

[Ethan Gach]

Love Sludge boy.

[Justin Davis]

No, again, I'm not that sludge boy.

[Laura]

Grant Howitt.

[Justin Davis]

Isaac Newton didn't study in F. Putney, did he?

[Greg Miller]

Who's Isaac?

[Ethan Gach]

Oh, my God.

[Laura]

And Sharmini Bundell.

[Greg Miller]

There's a magic community.

[Damon Hatfield]

There is. Yay.

[Justin Davis]

I'm in a magic community.

[Laura]

Go to realmspod.com or search realms of Peril and Glory wherever you listen to podcasts to find this mysteriously magical actual play series.