Game Scoop! Presents: Ocarina of Time - Is It Still Fun?

Summary

Game Scoop! Presents: Ocarina of Time – Is It Still Fun?

Date: November 25, 2025
Host: Daemon Hatfield with Pear Schneider, Sam Claiborne, Miranda Sanchez
Theme: Revisiting The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to determine if it's "still fun" in 2025, sharing personal stories, expert insights, and lively debate.

---

Episode Overview

The inaugural installment of Game Scoop!’s new feature, “Is It Still Fun Today?” revisits Nintendo’s The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time—once considered the “greatest game ever made” and still holding a record-breaking 99 Metacritic score. Daemon Hatfield leads panelists Pear Schneider (who reviewed Ocarina at launch), Sam Claiborne, and Miranda Sanchez in assessing its modern-day playability, cleverness, and impact after a fresh replay on new hardware.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Revisiting the Legend

• Pear’s unique perspective: He reviewed Ocarina for IGN in 1998, giving it a perfect score:

  "The new benchmark for interactive entertainment has arrived." (Pear, 01:11)

  • Pear recounts reviewing the game chained to a Nintendo 64 unit under tight Nintendo supervision.
• Miranda’s nostalgia:

  "It just belonged to Ocarina of Time. Like, it was a foundational game for me… an incredible journey that made me feel so much guilt as a child." (Miranda, 05:23)

  • Childhood fears around Redeads and the well—literal nightmare fuel.
• Panel Agreement: For all, Ocarina was “foundational” and formative as gamers.

2. The Return: Replay Impressions

• Main verdict:

  “Is Ocarina of Time still fun today? It is. Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes.” (Daemon, 13:14)

  • Despite dated quirks, Ocarina remains “packed with charm,” the world feels grand, and “the temples are genius.”
• Controller and Emulation Issues:
  • Early Switch emulation/control mapping was rough, now much improved with custom remapping (Pear, 13:44).

3. Design & Technical Brilliance

• Groundbreaking Cinematics:

  “You go into the Deku Tree and the camera zooms out. It’s got these sweeping camera moves... Games were not that way back then.” (Pear, 15:31)

  • In-engine cutscenes were revolutionary, as opposed to FMVs of the era.
• Worldbuilding Magic:

  “It looks more rounded...on an old school TV…the color blending, the way it all comes together…” (Pear, 17:04)

  • N64 trickery: towns are looping hatboxes, background “paintings”—clever illusion of an open world.

4. Dated Elements & Minor Frustrations

• Camera woes:

  “It did really bug me…not being able to control the camera…” (Daemon, 18:15)
  “Getting back and getting used to how the camera operates…using Z-targeting is one of the most obnoxious things.” (Miranda, 18:34)

• Clunky controls for newcomers—but easy enough to re-adapt for returning fans.
• Aging UI/UX: Wallet size limitations, item management, and lack of guidance—Navi sometimes unhelpful (28:58).

5. Puzzle & Dungeon Mastery

• Praise for puzzle design:

  “Puzzles are ingenious in some parts…The way you always feel really great when you figure something out.” (Pear, 49:35)

• Dungeons, from Fire to Forest to Spirit Temples, stood out for their “clever” structure and variety.
• Use of sound, rumble, and visuals for secrets:

  “There’s a rumble secret…a sound secret…a visual thing…then you start piecing it back together.” (Pear, 29:58)

• Mini-games and side quests retain a “surprisingly modern” density and fun.

6. Tone Shifts: Creepiness and Story

• The “adult world” is shockingly dark—sudden shift after the time skip, empty towns, nightmarish dungeons (32:44).
• Unique blend of whimsy and real emotional stakes:

  “The main themes…a kid who’s different…forced to grow up…universal themes.” (Daemon, 34:14)

• Notable “creepy” moments:
  • Skultulla house, Forest/Shadow Temple horrors, Redeads, blood in the boss fight (Shadow Temple’s torture room).

7. Ocarina vs. Modern Zeldas

• Current open world games like Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are compared and contrasted:

  “Nobody’s making games like this anymore…It’s a much more, like, focused storybook…a funneling you through the story.” (Daemon, 40:45)

• Ocarina’s balance of openness and linearity: more “Metroid-like” than pure sandbox, with smart backtracking.
• Modernizations (save states, rewind): make the game more accessible (Miranda & Sam, 50:16).

8. Nostalgia, Impact, and Historical Context

• Not a massive seller at the time, due in part to the N64’s reputation as a “kid’s toy” versus PlayStation’s mature branding (Pear & Sam, 51:06–53:05).
• Ocarina’s technical solutions (camera, Z-targeting, world design) shaped 3D game development worldwide.
• The desire for “making-of” documentaries—lamenting Nintendo’s secrecy and lost history (Sam & Pear, 56:02–56:43).

9. Memorable Quotes

• On foundational terror:

  “Literal nightmare… Redeads.” (Miranda, 05:56)

• On open world illusions:

  “We thought it was an open world, but it’s just cleverly interconnected little paintings and tricks.” (Pear, 21:52)

• On returning as adults:

  “We’re older and can no longer use a slingshot.” (Pear, 12:53)

• On replay value:

  “Partially nostalgia and comfort…so fun to return to… But it also is really fun and it’s the satisfaction that it gives you…” (Sam, 26:12)

• On legacy:

  “Ocarina of Time was different…the entire game development community was waiting for this game and watching every move Nintendo was making with it.” (Pear, 54:59)

• On the verdict:

  “Is it still fun today? Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes.” (Daemon, 13:14)

---

Noteworthy Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 02:11 | Intro: Why revisit Ocarina of Time? “The new benchmark for interactive entertainment has arrived.” (Pear) | | 05:23 | Miranda’s childhood memories, foundational impact, the game’s emotional tone | | 12:31 | Main discussion resumes: panel reconvenes after playing | | 13:14 | Host’s verdict: “Still fun today? Yes!” | | 15:31 | Panel dives into the brilliance of presentation and cinema | | 18:34 | Panel highlights control/camera frustrations | | 27:18 | Exploration, side quests, and dense world design | | 32:00 | Discussion on horror elements; emotional tone shift post time-skip | | 34:14 | Universal emotional hooks and narrative power | | 40:45 | How Ocarina compares to modern Zeldas | | 49:35 | Praise for puzzle design and how it fosters discovery | | 50:16 | Save states and modern gameplay amenities | | 51:06 | Historical context—why didn’t Ocarina sell more N64s? | | 54:59 | Ocarina’s industry legacy and technical innovations | | 56:02 | The desire for behind-the-scenes documentaries | | 58:30 | Final verdict: “Still fun”—modern platforms, replay options, and call for feedback |

---

Conclusion

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time is unanimously held up as a timeless masterpiece: welcoming to both nostalgic returning players and first-timers in 2025. Charm, puzzle design, and an evocative blend of whimsy and darkness outweigh dated controls and technical quirks. As Sam put it, Ocarina delivers a “satisfaction that you cleared it”—and no modern games quite replicate its tightly crafted adventure. It's "still fun," and still one of the greatest.

“Is it the best game of all time? I don’t know about that, but it is definitely still fun to play today.” (Daemon, 58:30)

---

Next Up

Listeners are encouraged to suggest other classics for the “Is It Still Fun Today?” treatment and share their own Ocarina memories. Contact Daemon via the Game Scoop! Facebook group or email.

---

For classic Zelda fans and curious newcomers alike, the consensus is clear: Ocarina of Time’s Song of Time remains an enduring, magical tune.

Transcript

[A]

So I've got a question for all the gamers out there. Are you seriously going to miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of the year? I mean, these are Black Friday prices we're talking about, so it's not just another sale. I took a look and this is some pretty big bang for your buck. You know, it's Alienware with some of the most advanced engineering out there with systems at the top of reviewers lists. And what about a gift for yourself? Get yourself a new Alienware 16 Area 51 gaming laptop. I mean this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with Intel Core Ultra processors. And even better, you can can get it during Black Friday. Plus you can save on all kinds of displays and accessories like the Alienware 27 4K QD OLED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity. These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance. So I'd visit alienware.com dealsoon and grab what you can before their biggest sale of the year goes dark. Cold mornings Holiday plans this is when I just want my wardrobe to be simple. Stuff that looks sharp, feels good and things I'll actually wear. For me, that's Quint's and the bonus Quint's pieces make great gifts too. This season's lineup is simple but smart and Easy with Quint's $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like an everyday luxury and wool coats that are equal parts stylish and durable. Their denim nails the fit and everyday comfort all at a fraction of what you'd expect to pay. By partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans, Quint cuts out the middlemen to deliver premium quality at half the cost of other high end brands. So you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag at home. These I've been living in my Quince Bamboo jersey lounge shorts. They're so soft and comfy. I also picked up a pair of joggers that look great and fit perfectly. Give and get. Timeless holiday staples that last this season with quints. Go to quints.com gamescoop for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Gamescoop free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Gamescoop what's up everybody? I'm Jamin Hatfield and welcome to something new we are trying out. We're piloting something and I'm the pilot. I'm joined today by Per Schneider Sam Claiborne and Miranda Sanchez. Hello there. The reason I've assembled these Avengers of gaming. This is something we're calling Is it Still Fun Today? The idea is we revisit a beloved game that we haven't played in a while in order to determine Is It Still Fun Today? And for this inaugural episode, I thought it would be interesting to revisit a game that for quite some time was considered by many to be the greatest game ever made. To this day, it is still the highest rated game ever on Metacritic. It's the only game with a 99 score. It is, of course, the Legend of Ocarina of time, released in 1998. Not only did it bring the Zelda franchise into the third dimension, not only is it the best reviewed game ever, it's probably the biggest shot in the arm, the humble ocarina wind instrument ever received in its 12,000 years of existence. So, pair, I've invited you here not only because your experience and perspective brings a lot to the table, but also because you reviewed Ocarina of time for IGN back in 1998. You gave it a 10 out of 10. And your review opens with the line, the new benchmark for interactive entertainment has arrived. What do you remember about reviewing Ocarina of Time?

[B]

I thought you invited me because I own three ocarinas. It's true.

[A]

Wow. Can you play one? Can you perform Song of Time for us?

[B]

Okay, I look. Yeah, that was an interesting review because it was at an age where reviewing games was really complicated and a representative from Nintendo had to come into our offices handcuffed to a Nintendo 64 with this like Saw movie, like metal clamp on top that held the cartridge in place and then actually stay in a room with us overnight while we're trying to finish the game. So, yeah, it was very early on. Does the game still hold up? I think we will be getting into that in our 14 hour discussion.

[A]

Yeah, it's gonna be a 14 hour discussion.

[B]

I stand by that review.

[C]

Video essay. Yeah.

[A]

Per.

[D]

Did you also play the Japanese version early of Ocarina before you played the North American version?

[B]

I'm trying to remember how that went.

[D]

You definitely played it at not CES, maybe E3 by then?

[B]

No, I did get to play an early version at an event in San Francisco with Miyamoto. And everybod was there and like we. We got to sit in beanbag and. And play for a few hours.

[A]

He sat in a bean bag with Miyamoto by.

[B]

Yeah, he. So he walked by and he's like watching Your screen, and you're like going, like, am I playing this okay? And he's like.

[D]

He's like watching pair play. It's like, we're gonna have to add that Z targeting after all.

[B]

He goes like, interesting. And then he keeps walking. And then he looks at another guy and goes like, you don't have the horse yet.

[D]

And then I bet he flew to Austin, work on that pre production of Metroid.

[B]

That's right. That's right. No, that review. Look, I. I haven't. I don't think I've changed anything in the years and snuck in there. I still stand by it. It's such a good game still. I recently replayed it on Switch online. I started just to see what they screwed up and whether the emulation was bad. And then I just.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

One. Once you get past the Cookiri BS in the beginning, you're like, man, this is so good.

[D]

I like the Kokiri stuff. We'll see if I like it this time around.

[B]

I suppose it's a little slow.

[A]

Miranda, when I reached out. When I reached out to you about this, you said you'd been wanting to revisit Ocarina of Time. Is that right?

[C]

The. The big reason I wanted to replay this was because my heart was It. It just belonged to Ocarina of Time. Like, it was a. It's a foundational game for me. I was quite young when it came out. I don't actually remember how old I was when we had it in my home. Obviously, like my parents. The 64 was theirs. And I was like, I want to play this. Give it to me. And so, yeah, you could play Zelda. It looks cute. It looks good. And I was like, yeah. And lo and behold, it's just like this incredible journey that made me feel so much guilt as a child.

[B]

Did you get. No, I just freaked out by the stuff under the well.

[A]

Yeah, I did.

[C]

Yes. Like, yeah, there was so much, like the redeads. Literal nightmare.

[D]

Yeah. I was just gonna say the Gibdos or Redeads. Yeah, yeah, it's Redeads in that game. Right? There's gibdos in the second one.

[C]

Yeah. That was terrifying. And, like, we would scre. I would scream when they would scream, and I was like, no. Then my mom would be like, what are you doing?

[D]

That was, like, an actual sample on that cartridge. Like, that was a choice to use that much space to put that scream in there. But they probably use it for some other 10 other things too.

[B]

I feel like that was the level when Miranda Decided to have an actual skeleton in her home.

[C]

Yeah, I do have a skeleton in here.

[D]

There it is.

[C]

Her name's Lorelei. I have her standing up now. She used to sit for a long time, and now she just gets lurk in the corner next to my bloopy, which is a custom plush that I ordered.

[D]

Miranda got that sent to the office and she took it home on our subway train. Bart.

[C]

I did. I got.

[D]

I just. I always pictured that.

[A]

And that wasn't even close to being the weirdest thing that happened on BART that day.

[C]

No, no.

[D]

Yeah, 100%. Not even on that ride.

[C]

I was sitting in a little chair and I had her standing next to me and I put, like, plastic wrap on her feet because I didn't want her feet to touch the ground on our trains. And then, like, I would just see people just like, kind of trains, like, just taking photos, just kind of like turning. Sneaky pen. I'm like, I mean, you need to take a photo of it, guys. Like, just.

[D]

I would've been like, thank God it's Skeleton Girl on the train. Not this other 10 people.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. There's a lot of things that you don't want to see.

[A]

Cross your fingers. It's just Skeleton Girl.

[C]

All right, well, it's just Skeleton Girl, but yeah. But basically, I've really wanted to replay Ocari of Time because it is so foundational for me. And now I'm like, wow, Tears of the Kingdom has completely changed my life. Breath of the Wild two. And those sit in the weird, like, camp of together for me. And I'm like, man, do these compare to my love for Ocarina of Time? That's kind of why I want to go back to it.

[A]

Yep. Same. I'm excited to revisit it. I haven't played it since it was released in 1998, so we are now going to go our separate ways. Play the game for a week or so, and then we'll reconvene and we'll dig into our 14 hour discussion. Let's find out if the Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time is still fun today. Or is it just. Okay, Rina of Time. Let's find out. A lot of holiday gifts end up in a drawer or the back of your closet or accidentally left at your cousin's house. Not this one. Mint Mobile is offering unlimited Premium Wireless for 15 bucks a month. That's their best deal of the year. AKA the only holiday gift you'll actually use every single day. Get a 36 or 12 month unlimited plan for 15 bucks a month. All Mint plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. You can bring your current phone and number over to Mynt. There are no contracts and no nonsense. If I were looking for a new phone plan, I'd be looking at Mint Mobile this holiday. Don't get them socks, get them Premium Wireless for $15 a month. Shop Mint Unlimited [e-mail] Gamescoop that's mintmobile.com Gamescoop Limited time offer upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 months. Plan required $15 a month equivalent taxes and fees extra Initial planned term only above 30gb may slow when network is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. Cementmobile.com what's up everybody? We are rolling into the holiday season, which means eating and drinking all sorts of wonderful sweets, treats and good things like that. All of which might throw a monkey wrench into whatever semblance of a normal diet you have the rest of the year. So if you'd like to offset the nutritional chaos you're subjecting your body to during all the fun festivities, let me tell you about AG1. AG1 Next Gen is a daily health drink clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrient gaps. It's got five probiotic strains and over 75 vitamins and minerals, which means it replaces the need for a multivitamin, probiotics and more. In addition to all the fun holiday merriment, this is also the time of year when the weather gets worse and everything gets darker. AG1's superfoods and B vitamins support your steady energy levels at a time when you probably just want to hibernate. It's also the time of year when everyone starts coughing and sneezing at each other and doing all sorts of gross stuff like that. AG1's got you covered with antioxidants, probiotics and functional mushrooms that support support immune resilience. Isn't that right Max?

[D]

AG1 sent me some samples to try out, which I've been taking every day.

[A]

In lieu of my usual fistful of multivitamins that smell like a pet store. This is an infinitely preferable way of.

[D]

Making sure I'm getting all the nutrients and gut stuff that I need. AG1's got tropical berry and citrus flavors, which taste great mixed with water, but you can also mix them with juice.

[A]

Or throw them in a smoothie if you're feeling frisky.

[D]

As for the actual ingredients, AG1 is continually investing in rigorous gold standard peer reviewed clinical trials to create the healthiest product possible.

[A]

Thanks Max head to drink ag1.com Gamescooped get a free welcome kit with an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3K2 when you first subscribe. That's drinkag1.com Gamescoop why do most of us want to learn a new language? It's probably not about memorizing grammar tables or topping a leaderboard. It's because we want to speak it out in the real world with real people. Babbel gets you there fast. Start speaking a new language with confidence thanks to Babbel's conversation based technique that quickly teaches you useful words and phrases about the things you actually talk about in the real world. There's over a dozen languages available to learn at your own pace so you can achieve your goals with material tailored to your individual proficiency level, interests and time availability. Handcrafted by over 200 language experts, Babbel's lessons are voiced by real native speakers and built with science backed cognitive tools like Spaced Repetition and interactive features to fit any learning style. Babbel's tips and tools for learning a new language are approachable and accessible. It's like having a private tutor in your pocket. It's that time of year again and Gamescom is coming up, so I should probably use Babbel to brush up on my German. I love that it uses voice recognition to listen to my pronunciation and give feedback. I use Babbel. And if you're looking to learn a new language, I think you'll dig it too. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 55% off your Babel subscription at babel.com Gamescoop get up to 55% off at babbel.com Gamescoop spelled B A B B E L.com Gamescoop rules and restrictions may apply.

[C]

Sam.

[A]

And we're back. We played the Song of Time. Only a moment has passed for you watching this video or listening to this podcast, but it has been months. It's been months since we embarked on this adventure. We recorded the intro in June before IGN Live and then event season just carried us all the way to Comic Con and Gamescom full of zombies.

[D]

And now we're back.

[C]

Hello.

[A]

Yeah, now the world. Ganon has destroyed the world.

[B]

We're older and can no longer use a slingshot.

[C]

Lost seven years of my life.

[D]

So everybody I'm gonna collect your copies. Hand them back here. Here's one.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Thank you. Thank you. I'll take these back.

[A]

Okay, perfect. The good news is we had a lot more time to play Ocarina than we were planning on.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm excited to hear everyone's thoughts, but for me, the short answer to. Is Ocarina of Time still fun today? It is. Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes. This is a very special game that is packed with charm, still feels like a big adventure. The temples are genius, and every step of the way, the music is incredible. It's one of the greatest video game soundtracks of all time. There are some slight quirks that are products of their time, but they don't diminish the overall package. So per. Start with you. You reviewed Ocarina of time in 1998. How does it sit with you today?

[B]

A different century. First of all, your experience will vary depending on what controller setup you use. Thankfully, Nintendo patched Things with Switch 2 where you can remap buttons, so all is well. But originally with the Switch 1 re release, mapping it to. It mapped it to controllers in the most horrific way. It's one of those games that was designed with the N64 controller in mind. Camera controls were sorely missed, but they used the C buttons as basically your inventory. And it was a really clever way to let you assign the things you really needed right at the time. Yeah. This game obviously has been fresh in my mind because I've revisited it over the years, played it on 3Ds again probably 2 times, and then played it again in emulation and on different devices. And yeah, it's like you start it and it starts slow, like a lot of Zelda games do, but just sort of easing you into the basic controls by this point, you know, like, we know what happens in the beginning and you kind of like, you don't need the tutorial for jumping and sword play and cutting bushes and all of that, or using your. Your fairy to Z target. People are far away and talking to them. Like all of that sort of like blaze through. And then you get right into the game and like the first dungeon is already great.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I got to hear what your scarce song is. Fair.

[B]

Oh, I. I just go. So I don't. I don't forget. I just go left, right, left, right, left, right.

[D]

I know, yeah. Is it left, right?

[B]

Yeah, it's left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right. How about you guys do it?

[D]

Oh, yeah, 100%. I think mine might have been up, down.

[C]

Yeah, I just play Song of Storms.

[B]

Oh, you do?

[C]

All the way through until it stops.

[B]

Really very clever. Anyway, you get into the deco tree and the atmosphere and this is when you go back. Now you used to games being cinematic, but this was. Games were not that way back then. You go into the deco tree and the camera zooms out. It's got these sweeping camera moves. Yeah.

[D]

It shocked me. I didn't remember that. That like there's so much camera stuff where the camera will come in from way from the edge of the level and come in and like go right into Link's face. He's like, ah. There's like all kinds of stuff.

[C]

And then I think they do that several times too. And I think it was like one of my favorite parts that just felt like they're. They're taking liberties of making this a bigger experience beyond you. And that like the flying through and that happens several times with different flying characters, which shows you this world in a different way. And it gives that sense of scope that I don't feel like you really got in a lot of games at that time. And it was just such a cool way to mix it up too.

[D]

I was shocked that it works so well too. It's so seamless. That was the disc based at the time. Problems with cutscenes, right? Is that they loaded and then they look completely different because they were FMV or whatever they were. And you go back to the game. But this. I remember IGN talking about this when I was first reading ign. Like in engine cutscenes. And why they matter. This is why they matter.

[B]

It's a completely organic experience. And they've developed their own language, right? Like they letterbox the. The display whenever. Like some of the faces are comical now. Like Zelda, when she turns around, she's like, you know.

[A]

But.

[B]

But remember one thing they did. It looked different on. On a CRT tv, right? Like there were lines that were left free and like. So the color blending, the way it all comes together. It looks more rounded when you play it on an old, old school TV like that because they also. The curvature of the screen. They took that into consideration back then. But like going back to the deco tree, you immediately learn the. The. The sort of. The rules of water will put out fire, but you need to get the fire to the other side. And what do you do whenever you do something you. The effect is shown like a ladder falls down and then. Super clever.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

When you do something in a room and you unlock a door and it Goes. You know, it opens the camera by default. Positions you with a line of sight. The thing that you unlocked. And it's like.

[D]

And it draws that line of sight to your head.

[B]

Yeah. The stuff they figured out back then in this game that we just take for granted today is just awesome. Like combat, locking on, always having a visual. Like having your enemy. All of those things. There are some warts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jump button.

[A]

Well, also, I think that work. I think. What the auto jumping. Just running. Running off a cliff.

[D]

It works.

[A]

I think it works.

[B]

You fall by accident. Yep.

[A]

You can just roll. Okay. I do. It did really bug me when I started replaying this. Just not being able to control the cameras is because this was two years after Mario 64. They still didn't trust people to just control their own camera.

[B]

I don't know.

[D]

There wasn't enough buttons.

[B]

That was it. They ran out of buttons.

[C]

The hardest thing I think people are gonna have coming into this game if they want to play it again. This is the. Is it still fun today? Yes. But if you take time off and it's been a bit. Getting back and getting used to how the camera operates by using Z targeting is one of the most obnoxious things. It feels like some. In some ways, it feels like some of the harder games where it's like if you take a step back from it for too long, you kind of forget everything. And that's how it feels to play this. And sometimes where the controls just don't feel very intuitive at some points. And you get used to that pretty quick. But that feels extra sticky on boss fights. I had that issue in so many boss fights. I'm like, just look this way. Link, please, for the love of God. And it's really hard to adjust to that after having the luxury of moving my own camera for almost every single game.

[B]

So they do these days when you. When you walk into a new room, you're rarely attacked where you're standing. And so you can pop into first person and look around. But now we want to organically do this while we explore. And this game doesn't let you do that. You have to, like, survey. And then you run in and you got to constantly snap. Like, you got to, like, snap that camera behind you to look at everything. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The first time you go ahead.

[C]

I was going to say you also have the problem of Navi wanting not to lock on enemies.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Like, if they're close, but they're just still too high. She doesn't want to go up there. And I'm like, can you please look at this bat so it doesn't set me on fire? Like I, I can't target just far.

[D]

Enough away to not target them. You're like, that bat is going to hit me, isn't it? Yep, yep, it's going to hit me.

[B]

Camera, it's coming is the biggest issue. And then the lock, when you locked on, your functions are different. Right. Then you can do. When the Z button is pressed, you can do backflips and things, but you can also fall off things that you couldn't fall, that you don't.

[A]

You.

[B]

You don't jump when you're locked on.

[D]

I love the backflip so much.

[B]

The backflip is awesome. So much the way the combat works, how you can side side step around characters. Like, it feels really good and really organic.

[D]

Targeting still feels great.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

It's like, oh, this is awesome.

[B]

But the camera controls are missed and there's some areas where they don't want to give you free camera control because of how the levels are constructed. Right.

[D]

You guys, a little 2D background and wrapped it around a town. Just run around in a circle.

[B]

If you use, if you use a no, like a tool like noclip. And you can see how the world is constructed. Like literally when you're inside the farm, there's no world outside. It's just like it has like tapestry around it. When you're in the marketplace, it is a circular, like you're inside a hatbox basically that rolls around. You're like. The thing that amazed me is when you're in a house in the Kokiri forest, in the first village, when you're inside a house and you hit see up, it does a third person view from the top. And they actually have to create a different version of that house that's like it doesn't come free. They have to do a couple of things in order for you to be able to switch.

[D]

It's pre rendered, right?

[B]

Yeah, they have like pre rendered textures. When you're on top of Death Mountain, you look down, you'd see a tiny version of Kakariko Village in the background.

[D]

And it's just those used to look better in cr, I'll tell you that.

[B]

It looks everything. It's designed to be blurry. And so when you're on an LCD or OLED or something, it does, it does design blurry.

[D]

That's exactly right.

[B]

The magic trick is given away.

[E]

Right.

[B]

But back then that was mind blowing because we thought it was an open world. They simulate an open world but it's just cleverly interconnected little paintings and tricks that make it happen. And so, yeah, going back to it again, I'm just struck by how creative this team was and how much work they did to pretend that it was an open world.

[A]

Sam, how about you? Still fun today?

[D]

Okay. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, we were starting this project out in a very busy week where there was a bunch of games we were supposed to be playing for work. And I was texting Damon saying, like, I just want to play Ocarina. More like it was that it drew me in that much. And especially after the Jabu Jabu kind of, which I actually liked all of this. I always remember being like, oh, I have to play as fast as I can to get past Jabu Jabu that I like this other stuff better. But I liked all of it. And the Jabu Jabu stuff was difficult and complicated located. Luckily, I brought two different strategy guys.

[A]

Oh, good.

[D]

Along for the ride. And which one's the official one? Strategy guides. They're both official.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[D]

See, this one says the official guide from Nintendo Power. This is the official guide for Brady.

[B]

No, I see.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

I may have worked.

[D]

Yeah, I think official was a different term back then. These guides are horrible.

[B]

I didn't work on the Brady one.

[A]

Well, the IGN guys, good.

[D]

They don't use maps. They don't tell you where anything is. They just have, like, a page with, like, a picture, and it's like, tip, tip.

[B]

You know what?

[D]

Sure. This is what link does this. Look at that big, blank map. Thanks. Thanks for nothing, everybody.

[B]

They were coding this down to the wire, and I think they, I think the, the teams, the strategy teams didn't get a lot of time with a game early. Like, usually, Usually the official Guides.

[D]

Well, there were people later released ones, though. I remember going to, like, a, you know, Borders in 1998, getting, you know, that by, by the holiday seasons. Like, this came out in November, I think, and then by December, there's already a later pressing of something with, like, much better stuff in it. But so I, I was drawn in. I stuck with it. I got the furthest I, I, I've gotten to the Water Temple, which means I played through the Forest Temple and the Fire Temple. The Fire Temple was a really fun revisit.

[B]

What a great puzzle.

[D]

Yeah. Like the column of the center of that thing, like, just wrapping your head around, like, oh, that's what's happening here. You barely figure that out.

[A]

Then.

[D]

You don't really use that hammer for anything else in the game. Aside from breaking some world things. So I thought that was kind of funny. But you do use it there. Yeah, very clever. And then that temple is where things start. Where things are so hidden in there that you have to listen for those skulltula sound.

[A]

Yep, yep, yep.

[D]

And then my favorite thing about that point in the game is that you get a compass. And then you really need it. And you look and you're like, there's a chest in that room. Oh man, I have to get it. Then you go back and it's a freaking heart. You know, like a tiny little refills.

[A]

One heart.

[D]

This is a troll chest.

[C]

No, this is just Nintendo. This is what they do. Like, I feel like a lot of the times you go for a hard reward in. In almost any Zelda game, it's not going to be actually rewarding unless it's a journey. Just. Exactly. It's like the satisfaction that you cleared.

[D]

It 100% and you can clear it, you can 100% these dungeons and it feels so good.

[B]

But Sam, from a strategy guide writer and Miranda, from a strategy guide writer's perspective, obviously this is gold for us because like, you'll go through the forest temple and you hear behind a wall and you're like, I don't know how to get it. And like, the answer is you can't. You have to come back. You know, sometimes you have to get bombs, sometimes, which, you know, you get later.

[D]

Or you have to get the hood shot, right? The item from the dungeon. So you're like, you don't go so hard until you get the compass, the map and the item. And then you're like, I'm gonna have to do a sweep. So then my other like, point of context that I wanted to throw is that I. I've since I played Breath of the Wild, you know, they ever replaced my favorite game of all time, which was Ocarina. And I, you know, think about all the reasons why that is and why Tears of the Kingdom is so wonderful and why I never want to go back to these kind of what I would refer to as more linear Zelda experiences. This game is not that it's still open. It's more Metroid. Like you backtrack a lot. It's less like the first Zelda game than you'd expect, which is really open world. I mean, the Legend of Zelda for NES is like a perfect example of an open world game. This is like, it's tighter. And the way it sends you back to things is clever because there's two different eras, right? And all that. So the reason I enjoy this game though now is partially nostalgia and comfort. Right. Like it's just like it's so fun to return to and it's so familiar and lovely. But it also is really fun and it's satisfaction that it gives you of how you progress when you do get something. You can do a lot more things like generally when you get the hook shot, you're like, oh my gosh, think of all the pieces of wood you can go back to and just, and just aim at that. But then some are too far away. You're like, oh well, what's going to solve? Like it's so clever in the world opening up and being less, I think, dense than I remember, but still more interactive than I remember.

[C]

That's kind of what surprised me as well is how much there is to do. Although when I got into an area I felt like my brain just clicked and I remembered so much, like I gotta do all these side quest things. I know exactly how to find this. I know how many cuckoos to find. I know like what the secrets are, which tombstone to pull. And that felt really satisfying. But at the same time it makes me excited for anyone who hasn't played it because I think they'd be surprised by how much there is to do, how much optional stuff there is. Like the mini games, they get really hard, but you get addicted.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think that's something we still have and obviously they've carried on with. But it feels like there's just a bit more life and density to this world than like Tears of the Kingdom where everything is really open. And sometimes it feels like you're just going through a bunch of empty space with some monsters. You can find some like old rusted swords and stuff. But this one feels like the towns just feel a little bit more alive or more dead, I guess you could say sometimes, like there's just a lot of character to them. Whereas sometimes when I was walking through, through Tears of the Kingdom, everything felt a little small for the scale of what I feel like they could develop to. Whereas this sort of met my expectations of life in these towns. And I think that's really cool to see where that all started in a lot of cases. I also just kind of on the development part of just being a guide writer and loving how things are structured. I love how so much of this game is reliant on hints. Even though people are like man, Navi just talks to you all the time, she's giving you all these directions until she doesn't yeah, yeah.

[D]

Until you're just like, where to go?

[C]

Where do you go? And I'm like, well, I remember where to go, but it took me like an hour to figure, like, remember how to get the water temple stuff started? It's just like, wait a second.

[B]

Yeah. I noticed that there's some obscure moments, right. Remember you have to talk to, I think Malin in. In the back of the village, but she's not there during the day or something.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They actually changed some of the. And then time does not pass when you're in that area, only outside in the world. And like the 3ds version actually fixes that. So they had some changes where they knew that their puzzles were a little bit. Had had some. Some issues. But I remember this game so well because I played it so many times, wrote a guide and all of that. But when I. When I started playing again, I, like, fell into a hole with a cow in it. I'm like, oh, man, the cow. What do you do with a cow again? Like, do I play a song? Like, how do I get the milk here?

[A]

No way.

[B]

And like, there. There are surprising amount.

[D]

Why isn't this cow giving me any milk?

[B]

Of secrets. But the thing that always struck me with this game is how many different types of secrets are. There are. There's a rumble secret where the rumble pack pulsates. There's a sound secret where you have to listen to something. There's a visual thing, right. Like. And then you start piecing it back together.

[D]

It's really.

[A]

Yeah. You mentioned.

[D]

Do you remember the Sheikah Stones being, like, super mysterious? There's so much you can do with these, but they don't really do anything. It's like you can hit them or bomb them them or read them with.

[B]

The mask, fly in there. They're flying to the sky.

[D]

Every object's gonna have some kind of effect with this. It's so interesting.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think going though. Even though playing with the guide's really helpful, one thing that I've always loved about Zelda games is they kind of just trust you to figure it out as well. Like, there's a lot of hints. Like, there's even as early as. What was it? Just going to Zora's domain for the first time and going to go through all of that. It's like, how do I kick this off to get to Lord Jabu Jobu? Like, how do I get him to move? And you can leave or you can go do this cool little diving game. It's like, oh, this just happens to be here. And it's.

[D]

I always get lucky because I always forget that I'm like, oh, you do have to leave this, this little tunnel down here. Yeah, that's always frustrating, right? Yeah.

[C]

And so it just kind of feels like it's trying to point you in a direction of like, oh, you can't do this yet, but what else can you do in this area? And it's kind of forces you to deserve. And I like that, that design for it.

[D]

The, the that game reminds me of how, how horrible it is to not have a big wallet in that game. It's like you can jump off that and you're like, I just got 300 rupees and I can store 99.

[C]

Oh man, I got crazy.

[B]

This happens in Wind Waker too. Wind Waker. You like you constantly over your wallet size.

[C]

Yeah, I focused skulltulas. Just immediately I was like, I'm getting my wallet upgrades give it.

[D]

And there's a lot available. I mean like you can really open world the skulltulas. Like that's a really fun thing to do. Go at night, roll against trees. Like there's so many ways to get them.

[B]

Can we talk about how creepy this game is, Damon?

[A]

Yeah, we should talk about it because.

[B]

The skull tell us you walk into that house for the first time.

[A]

Oh no.

[B]

Right. Like there's like a half human weird spider creature and they're all cursed. And then there are these moments like it is eerie. The music in the forest temple. The weird. Like it's so creepy. You always think there's something and then you forget that the hallway has a freaking skull taller dropping from the top and like bumps into you. There are these moments of like genuine surprise and scary moments. And then there's the cut scene where you go back into Kakariko village and something escapes the well. Right. And like it points your nose at, hey, there's something wrong with the well. And you're like, I've been here 100 times. This didn't happen. What happened now? Now you go down into the well and you're like, oh God. Yeah, oh God.

[D]

But the, the adult world is generally like really dark. Like the town is filled with dead things. Like, which is crazy. And it's like shocking when you get there the first time. You can't go back and you're like. They're like, maybe you should check. Dobby's like, maybe we should check in with. Sorry. I think she's still alive, you know, because I think it's Completely crazy. All the kids are not in the forest until you get into the Lost woods and then one of them tries to blocky still the Link.

[B]

It's basically. They took Link to the past and then they made it into like this sort of. It's a grown up version, right? It has the two worlds. But in Link to the Past you go to the Dark World. It is. It is less like it feels less pleasant to be there. It's like it is a bad world and everything is transformed but it still isn't that that threatening. Like in Ocarina of Time, you're like, what is going on here? Like everything is messed up. You know, like you walked into. You walk into the guard house. Like first of all the. The castle town is in ruins. You walk into the guard house and there's this one eyed dude sitting there buying POS and like it's just.

[D]

The Goron town is just like completely empty.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

That's so sad what happened to the Gorons.

[C]

Yeah, I. I think it's just that sudden shock of obviously everything's different, but there's also the horror for Link where he's still just a child, but it's like now you're an adult and I.

[D]

Kind of explain it to him and like he's kind of interesting way is. I think Chic does it where like she's Sheik's just like over and over. Just saying like. And now Link. Remember you're.

[C]

You're.

[D]

You're a big boy now and you can't do this anymore. It's so weird.

[A]

I think that's one of the main like the. The main themes that resonate with people so well. The emotional hook is that you're. You're a kid who's different.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That's very relatable. You feel different, but you're important and you have a destiny. People like that. There's all, you know, it's a kid going on an adventure by themselves, like Goonies or something, leaving town. But then all of a sudden he has to grow up. You're forced to grow up and everyone has, you know, mixed feelings about growing up and gaining more responsibility. So I think these are just like. These are like universal themes that have resonated with people.

[B]

Yeah, there's that cool moment though when you're like, when you're grown up and you realize how much more powerful your sword is.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Like he could like he. He's. He can't use some of the items anymore that he used to use as a kid, but he Gets much cooler stuff. And that's the forest temple. The first time you get the bow and arrow you're like yeah, now we're cooking with gas. Right?

[D]

Like to the slingshot and you' like this is a child. But the first time you get that.

[A]

You'Re like now you skull, I'm Dennis the Menace.

[D]

I mean and the boomerang is funny because you get at the late child, you know, like stage, you barely use it but then you go back and you realize you have to use it to get all these like distant skulltulas and stuff in the past which are not in the future. And like it's complicated.

[A]

And you mentioned spooky stuff. The Shadow Temple has a torture chamber with a blood soaked floor. It's like what?

[C]

I don't know how I made it through the Shadow Temple when I was a kid because I was really little. And the whole shift of oh, now you're an adult also you kind of mess up because you let Ganon basically get what he wants and destroy the future even though you're kind of supposed.

[D]

To because you bring him the medallions as well.

[C]

I felt yeah, because you opened the temple. And I was like man, I feel so guilty. I feel awful. Then everything's terrible. And I was just having this complex about and I was like really little. I think it was like seven.

[B]

And the Shadow, the Shadow Templar has these like ships of the dead too. Remember it's like the river sticks down there and the creepy hand people.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

What are they called? The. They're kind of buff plazalfo skeletons.

[B]

Yep, yep, yep.

[D]

What are they called? Boblins. Stalfos. Stalfos. Those are kind of hard. You know what they kind of teach you at certain moments about sword and shield parrying, combat and stuff like that. One of them is the switching los alphos where they know you can't lock onto two and they can easily just stab you. Yeah, right. So one always goes ah and hops away.

[B]

That fight is so good. It's like right, and then they jump across these things.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. And you know in that scene if you jump off the side of that you fall down to another level and you have to get all the way back up there too. That's an actual region you've been in before, which is really mean.

[B]

Those combat set pieces are really clever. And then you know, a lot of the enemies are, you know, staple enemies from past games. But I can link to the past. Seeing a bubble enemy was like this circulating thing. You can spray fairy dust on and get unlimited fairies in here. It is literally a flying skull with wings and makes, like, skull noises and, like, sets you on fire. So, yeah, it's so cool. It's very. It's very creepy. And the forest temple doesn't have any super scary enemies.

[A]

And it has an amazing boss fight.

[D]

Phantom Ganon.

[A]

But that Phantom Ganon boss fight is so cool.

[B]

But then it goes into the creepiest boss battle with someone jumping out of paintings.

[A]

That's still that effect of him going in the painting and still, like, riding up the hill in the painting. It still looks so cool today. It's like, what?

[D]

Yeah, that's awesome, man.

[B]

And how did they come up with that?

[D]

Like, why is Phantom Gan Ganon there? Like, why does that. I mean, it's kind of paced. Well, in hindsight, but because it's like the first adult link battle. So you're like, is this the end of the game? And, like, there's kind of like, don't.

[B]

Think too hard about it. Like, a lot of stuff doesn't make sense in that game, but, like, just enjoy it.

[D]

The.

[B]

The creepiness impressed me. And then just the sense of scale when you're. You're climbing Death Mountain and you, like, you look down and then you make the mistake of talking to Kaipura Gua, the owl, and you say, should I repeat this? Yes. And you. Then you do it again accidentally.

[A]

No. He's like.

[B]

For the last. The next 30 minutes.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Did you accidentally press yes this time?

[A]

I did. Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, yeah, it's. It's the worst. The worst loop. But then that. Just a sense of space you get from looking down and you understand how this entire world fits together. And then you get to the fence and you don't know how to get into the Lake Highley area. And then you do, and you know, and then remember, it's like fishing in it all of a sudden. And you're like, you realize you can. You can just cast the. Cast the lure. It's just so cool.

[D]

And Sam, they withhold the spirit temple and the desert until the very end, which is really neat. Like, they hide all everything else in plain sight. And then that area is an expansion.

[B]

They train you for it, right? My least favorite dungeon is Jabu Jabu, because you have to pick up Ruto all the time. Put her down. And, like.

[D]

And there's no shortcuts. Like, I kept on trying to, like, like, rip through that. I'm like, nope. You just got to go slow. A bunch of enemies.

[B]

The rules are not Clear how she despawns and all of that and where to find her. Right. Like, it's a little. It's a little hokey, that level. Once you get through that, though, it gets so much better. And then I love how they train you for when you first break into the castle. They train you with a stealth sequence where you're hiding from the guards. And then when you get to the desert, you do that at a grander scale in, like, the Gerudo Valley. And that leads to probably one of the best dungeons in all of Zelda with a desert col. Oh, yeah, yeah. Desert Colossus. Yeah. Spirit Temple.

[C]

As grim as everything can be, especially in the adult side, it's also still really funny. Like, they make Link scream a lot. Like it's a prize. Like they just kind of throw them everywhere. Personal thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so good, Sam. You're comparing it to the Marmott. Modern Zelda games. Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom. Anytime we cover those games, there's always a commenter or two who's like, this is not my Zelda. I prefer the older style Zelda games. And I was always very dismissive of that because I love Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom so much. But now I get a little bit more having played this game, because it's its own thing. It's different. It's a much more, like, focused storybook. Yeah. You're playing the adventure. You're not set free to explore the wilderness on your own with a bunch of tools and find your own way. It's very focused in sort of, like, funneling you through the story. And also, nobody's making games like this, this anymore. There's like, no Ocarina of Time like that's being made today.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it is hard. Right? And that's. I mean, it's even harder to make Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. Otherwise more companies would make them like Ubis tried, but. But never quite gotten to that level.

[D]

So it's like beyond good and Evil was. Was a Ocarina, like, and there was.

[A]

There was the. What Darksiders. There was the Dark Siders series, but now that's Darksiders. It's been a long time since we've had that.

[B]

But they never have that sort of progression where, you know, you're going to. Now I have a horse. Right. Like, this, sort of these pivotal moments in Ocarina of Time where you just feel more and more powerful. And like, Majora's Mask does this, obviously, really well with the use of the masks later on as well. But yeah, these games aren't.

[D]

But I think that's the end of it. I don't think Skyward and Twilight did the same thing. Like they're interesting games and I should revisit them. But I don't think they're Ocarina likes. I think they're their own things too.

[B]

Twilight Princess is better than you remember. It's just. It felt like there was just a lot in it and it was sort of this. This half grown up game. Like the hardware wasn't powerful enough to do the thing that they wanted to do. And so it isn't as pretty as it should be. But there's some. There's some genuinely amazing moments in that game and like moments of darkness too with, with. With the skeletons. There's some good stuff in it.

[C]

Obviously we're not here to talk about Twilight Princess, but this. I. I love the style and the. And the NPCs and that. Like there's just so many cool.

[D]

The kids look really cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But I also remember it being super easy. Like that was. My takeaway is like why is this so easy?

[D]

I think the difference between Ocarina and that though is that the child link and the adult link are really fun to be. It's not really fun to be wolf link. You kind of want to get out of that. And it's like these battles.

[B]

100.

[D]

That's not that. And I think that's a problem. Like in it. Just like you were saying too, like a link to the past dark world is really fun. It's cool to see the comparisons between them.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

The wolf link mechanic with going bur. Bur with that. Like. Like locking onto en. Locking onto enemies is not as fun as the combat in the. The earlier games. And I would say the same about the DS Zelda games. Clicking on an enemy, it's just not with a stylus. It's just not as fun as slashing and doing all the fancy sort of footwork and back flips. Like you feel like a badass when you're fighting in Ocarina of Time. And it all works the way it's supposed to. Yeah.

[A]

So in the end of all, in the end of it all, you battle Ganondorf, Zelda's there. She screams when you get hurt. I think that's a really nice touch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Defeat Ganondorf, the castle crumbles.

[D]

Then of course in some versions Ganon bleeds blood and others he bleeds green.

[C]

Green.

[B]

Yeah. I have the. I have the red.

[A]

What do you mean? Some version, like Japanese version or something?

[D]

Well, that's why, that's why I do have three versions of Ocarina. First run, it was actually came. It came in several different variations. And one of them, you have to look at the cartridges. And then the cartridges have. And by the way, there's a shiny version.

[C]

But did you have that? Yeah. The fancy one.

[D]

Yeah. So the earlier ones have. Yeah, they have red blood.

[B]

Yeah. And then they removed. They had a. The fire temple has a chant in the background. It's like Muslim chant or something.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

And they removed that one because it was a religious chant. Nintendo.

[D]

And Nintendo just doesn't want religion.

[B]

Yeah, they just didn't want to get in trouble and like the red blood. But come on. The USRB is not gonna go back and rate it mature just because he barfs red blood in one scene. You know, there's creeper stuff in there in the wild scene.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, there is. So it's a. It's a hamster in the microwave situation. That's right. If your cat could write a letter to Santa, Pretty Litter would be at the top of their list. They've been good all year long and they deserve a fresher, cleaner litter box this season. Give your cat the gift of comfort and give yourself the gift of easy cleanup, odor control and peace of mind. Pretty Litter is soft on their paws, easy to maintain, and it even helps you keep an eye on their health. It's like wrapping up care, comfort and convenience in one box. Pretty Litter ships free right to my door. So there are no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs. It's formulated with silica gel crystals that are safe for cats and people alike. Advanced odor control means your home smells like home, not a litter box. The ultra absorbent formula uses less material than clay litter, reducing waste and saving money. I like Pretty Litter a lot and I think you will too. It's truly the best at eliminating litter box odors right now. Save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at prettylitter.com Gamescoop that's prettylitter.com GamescooP to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy. Prettylitter.com Gamescoop Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply.

[E]

C site for details this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies just to see if you could save some cash. Well, Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. The holidays are approaching and everyone knows that this time of year, the sooner you can get things done, the better for both shoppers and businesses. The best time to score great deals during the holidays is during that Black Friday Cyber Monday weekend. And if you have your own business, whether you've been around the block a few times or this is your first year going through the holiday sale rush, the most important thing you can have is a platform that can handle everything that's about to be thrown at you. You this is a crucial time for your business and your customers, and with Shopify you can be sure that your tools and platform are ready for anything that comes your way. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names to entrepreneurs who will be participating in their first Black Friday Cyber Monday this year. With everything else going on, you probably don't have time to spend hours pouring over every little detail in your online store. That's why Shopify's thousands of templates and tools help you streamline website creation and make sure that your site isn't just aesthetically pleasing, but functional and easy to use. Shopify's expedited checkout shop pay saves customer information and reduces hassle. And the best part is that it's been proven to boost conversions, meaning you'll see less abandoned carts and more profits. You can also stress less knowing that Shopify's award winning customer support team is on standby 247 to help with any issues that arise, allowing you to get back to your business as fast as possible this Black Friday. Join the thousands of new entrepreneurs hearing for the first time with Shopify. Sign up for your free trial [e-mail] realm that's shopify.com realm go to shopify.com realm and make this Black Friday one to remember.

[A]

They they defeat Ganon, send him to the Void, and then Zelda sends Link back to be a boy again. But presumably he has all his memories and remembers the adventure he went on. But then after you see the Return of the Jedi style celebration scene, then it ends with him going to visit Zelda and there's this very nice freeze frame there. The end.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I, I just think it's a nice moment because I don't. Zelda doesn't know Link, but Link has all these memories of their adventure together. So it's just. It's like you're left to wonder like, how does he. How does he handle the situation? It's just.

[D]

But Zelda does know Bob Ombs because she has pictures of them in her.

[B]

But remember, if you fail, it's, you know, Fuji and Bowser, it's the reign of Ganon and like the timeline splits and only awful things happen. Yeah, no, it wraps up really nicely lore wise. Like I. The Zelda games just never nicely line up and like a lot of stuff got retconned with Hyrule Historia to fit it all together. Right. And. And how the stories go. And like it's. Yes, it's fine. But even Majora's mask does not neatly connect to this story as well. Like as an Alice in Wonderland story, it makes sense where the world of Ocarina of Time gets remixed. Just like, you know, going up into the tornado, you end up in a world where everybody looks familiar. Like in Dorothy's real world. Same thing happens here, but like it doesn't. And it's almost like that sort of the form follows function there where they set out to make a game reusing the Ocarina of Time assets and then sort of retconned it to fit together rather than this is the game they wanted to make. And Majora's mask is awesome. Right? Like the three day structure is so unique. It is absolutely not like Ocarina of Time, despite looking like it in many ways. But I feel like Ocarina of Time is still the better balanced game. The through line, the stories, the dungeons are just more interesting in the end. And you play as Link versus constantly transforming into creatures.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So yeah, look, I played through Ocarina of Time again and I was just struck by the puzzle design being ingenious in some parts. Like the puzzle box in the fire temple, the puzzle with following the four pose in the forest temple. Like how you had to basically solve each direction of the dungeon and. And do things. And like it teaches you don't get close to the painting because then you can't do anything. And then you're like, oh, bow and arrow. I'm an idiot.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Like the way you always feel really great when you figure something out. But the game does not help you a lot. You know, and so some people did have to check things out in a strategy guide.

[C]

I'll say. Also the modernizations of having the rerun mechanic so helpful. I tried not to use it too much, but I was like, man, it's really nice just to rewind right here and save that vom that I didn't need to use.

[D]

Yeah, I used save states for a bunch of things just because I knew what was coming.

[B]

And I was like, yeah, in these games you couldn't. To people who haven't played the. Didn't play them back then. Like if you save, it saves most stuff but like your hearts get reset, you're at the beginning of a dungeon. And so like it's sometimes hard to retrace your steps when you don't play for a couple of weeks. And with save states you just save where you left off and it's just really nice.

[A]

So per, especially at the time of release, this was an incredible interactive adventure. There was nothing else. Like at the time, it was mind blowing. Why didn't it sell more Nintendo 64s? Well, crazy. I would argue it's probably better than anything on the PlayStation.

[B]

No, it is. You know, obviously this was the age that Metal Gear also came out, Metal Gear Solid and that impressed a lot of people and that was a more grown up experience. And then you got Final Fantasy moving to the PlayStation. So it was just Damon. It was a dark time for Nintendo. It was a period of war.

[A]

It would get darker. They would sell even fewer gamecubes.

[D]

Yeah, the Sega Nintendo thing didn't help because this still looked like a kiddie game and so did Mario. And then the reluctant adopters really liked these. But there was a little embarrassing when you could be playing NHL on the PS1.

[B]

I think when you, if you live through that era, there was something happening with CD ROMs and rich media content that seemed like the future. And like I don't think, I think some people missed the genius of games like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time because they're like, oh my God, look, I've got a CD encyclopedia on my computer and all the menus are animated and I can watch a video of, you know, the Taj Mahal and like this is the future. And then Ocarina of Time and Mario were not like that. They used real time rendering for the storytelling and maybe that didn't look as good to some people as FMV and like going like, you know, if you remember, was it Rebel Assault, the game back then where it was basically streaming video footage from The CD ROM like Dragon's Lair, but you're like, oh, it looks like Star wars and it sounds like Star Wars. And that was not as, as cool as Shadows of the Empire, which was all. All rendered.

[D]

I think Sega CD had that game because they definitely played that FMV1.

[B]

I'm not making a good argument there because Shadows is not a great game. But the Hoth level was freaking amazing, right? And I, in hindsight, I don't understand. I think people were just ready to move to something that was more like a consumer electronics home appliance that was modern and grown up. And N64 still looked like, like a kid's toy. And the last sort of, you know, like. Yeah, like a child's toy. Even if the games had grown up without people noticing.

[A]

If you think the Nintendo 64 looks like a kid's toy, wait till you see the GameCube.

[B]

GameCube is actually really cool now when you look at it.

[C]

I miss the Gamecube.

[A]

I love the game.

[C]

I love my Gamecube.

[A]

That's a little handle.

[D]

I didn't own a 64 until I saw this game in, you know, November of 1998. Like, I just like, like it was uncool to me. It just. I just had no interest. I kind of like got f. Been spurned like by the Sega CD into the 32X into the Saturn. I was like, oh my God, like buying all these consoles. Like, this is just so weird. Like my Super Nintendo had just ran out of games with the, you know, Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy and stuff and Mario rpg and it's like, am I really gonna switch this? I'd played 64 Mario Super Mario 64 to friend's house. But then this game came out and it was like, like, you know, just kind of this demonstration of where games were. And I never even bought a PlayStation 1. So like, this game got me in back into video games after being not into video games.

[B]

Yeah, I had that. I had them both. And I really appreciated what Sony was doing back then, right? Like we got games like Parappa the Rapper that were. That were using the CD for something really clever, right? Like really catchy music with lyrics and stuff. And like the N64 was not that. And so then they go in sort of side by side side for a while and PlayStation managed to bring PC games over because it had, you know, CD ROM and more and more storage. N64 sort of struggled with it. Then tried to do RTS games. Like, nobody remembers Starcraft 64 or Command and Conquer 64. But these were actually functional RTS games that used the controller in clever ways. But Ocarina of Time was different. Ocarina of Time was sort of the entire game development community was waiting for this game and watching every move Nintendo was making with it. And now when you look back it's no wonder because it actually solved many issues that game developers needed to be solved in order to understand how to make games in 3D.

[E]

Right.

[B]

Like from the camera system and the locking on to how you design a world around the limitations of hardware that couldn't push an entire open world. Like just the trickery of it all. And then the sort of the, you know, the light puzzles were amazing. Like using the mirror shield to like shine light beams and like the way like lighting up a torch to. To solve a puzzle. All of that stuff was really brilliant in 3D. But I remember leading up to the release of this game how like the. The nuggets started trickling out and everybody going like, oh, everybody just was just sort of like this epiphany like that's how they solving this. That's where the map goes. That's how the map works in 3D. That's how you show where links is. People were learning it and it was fascinating to see.

[D]

Oh man, the lower corner maps are so confusing in Ocarina. Yeah. Like they're always just look like some like weird squid and you're just like, well, I don't know where I am. And this. You start turning around and then you get the compass. Then you get the compass and suddenly Overworld though there's. There's nothing very.

[B]

No, it's true. But like the compass marks where you entered the room and then it starts to sort of click again, you know?

[D]

Yeah. So I watched the Lucas art or Lucasfilm like documentaries that Disney did, I don't know, like last year or something. Then I rewatched the Peter Jackson behind the scenes DVD behind the scenes for the Lord of the Rings movies. Both like incredible tens of hours of documentary. I make some of my favorite things. Ocarina is the thing I want to see that for. And I'm just so sad that Nintendo is just not in that mood ever. And I don't know what they preserve.

[B]

I think it's lost. I think they just didn't have a camera there when they were doing stuff. And like they probably thought filming somebody programming is not exciting. Yeah.

[D]

You know, but like every, every day of this development how they developed the first 3D RPG. Basically like I want to Know like that that's worthy of exposure. And what you're just saying like how they solve these problems is like so interesting and I'm so sad that probably will never.

[B]

There's a fascinating thing about the N64 where before it came out we all thought it was way more, it was going to be way more powerful than we thought, right? Because they had shown these, they had shown these Silicon Graphics demos of what games would look like. And like I remember games were out.

[D]

Killer, killer instinct at all, right?

[B]

I told the, I think on an, on another podcast I told the story of like Konami trying to make Goemon work on the N64, which is the most Zelda. The, the most Ocarina of Time game is the, the 3D Goemon game. And like they were showing a demo of pre rendered demo of two players at the same time. They had to cut all that, right? Like they couldn't make this game run smoothly. Shadows of the Empire could not. Because the N64 didn't have a dedicated sound chip. They had to figure out how to make the music sound like Star Wars. So they just did a mono sample of looping music that they played over and over. Like now when you see, when you see what they had to do to make these games work, work, you realize like how restrictive the hardware was. Ocarina of Time famously showed us a forest scene in stills. There was like a PO holding a lantern in a forest with lots of trees. That is not in the game because they couldn't render distinct all these trees. It couldn't handle it.

[E]

Right.

[B]

And so that's the fascinating stuff to me. I would have loved to have seen what they were trying to do and what they had to abandon for and the reasons why and like, like and how they work towards still making such a coherent world in the end.

[A]

Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, the Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. Highest rated game ever. Is it the best game of all time? I don't know about that, but it is definitely still fun to play today. And you can do so fun you can do. So we have to come up with some kind of like anime animation.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Yep, yep, still fun.

[D]

Still fun.

[A]

Yeah, you can play it on Nintendo Switch online or the 3DS or a Wii or a Wii U that downloaded it from the virtual console or of course the GameCube or the original Nintendo 64. Thank you to Pear, Sam and Miranda for joining me on this adventure. Viewers and listeners, I want to know what you think about this new show. Is it still fun today? Should we do more? What games should we revisit? If you have any feedback on this format, I would love to hear it. You can hit me up on the socials in the Gamescoop Facebook group or email me at the address gamescoopgn.com My name is Damon and I will see you in the next one.

[D]

I want to do the Dark World version of this show called It Was Never Fun.

[B]

It was never Fun.

[D]

You do like, you know, I don't know Amagon or like, Myelin's secret cast.