In this episode, retired Intelligence Unit detective Gary Jenkins talks with Eric Dezenhall, an author and former Reagan’s White House aide, about his new book, Wiseguys and the White House. Eric shares his unique perspective on the fascinating and often overlooked intersection of organized crime and American politics. His curiosity on the subject began with a seemingly casual remark from a colleague about mafia influence in his hometown of Cherry Hill, New Jersey. As a young aide in the Reagan administration, that moment set him on a path to explore how deeply organized crime has intertwined itself with the fabric of American society and government.

Throughout the conversation, Eric discusses how perceptions of mobsters have shifted over the decades. In the early 20th century, gangsters were often seen as vital community figures. They provided services like gambling and liquor during Prohibition—illegal but in high demand—and were viewed as filling a societal need. By the 1970s, however, that image began to unravel. Organized crime became a symbol of decay, corruption, and violence, far removed from the Robin Hood-like aura it once carried.

Eric brings to life the stories of legendary mob figures like Meyer Lansky, detailing Lansky’s surprising role during World War II. Lansky, alongside other organized crime figures, worked with the U.S. Navy to prevent Nazi sabotage along the East Coast. Eric explains how this alliance complicates the narrative of mobsters as purely criminal; during wartime, they were sometimes perceived as patriotic contributors to the national effort. Their involvement underscores the ambiguity surrounding these figures, who operated in both legitimate and illegal spheres.

As the conversation moves into modern times, Eric discusses how organized crime continues to influence political and business landscapes. He points to figures like Donald Trump, who openly acknowledged the realities of navigating a business world shaped by organized crime in cities like New York. Eric also examines how presidents such as Reagan, Nixon, JFK, and Joe Biden managed relationships with organized crime—relationships that, while morally complex, often played a role in advancing their careers and shaping American politics in lasting ways.

This episode offers a compelling look at the intersection of crime, politics, and history through Eric Dezenhall’s sharp insights and years of research. By sharing stories of infamous mobsters and pivotal historical moments, Eric reveals a side of organized crime that is often forgotten: its influence on the nation’s leadership and its occasional alignment with patriotic causes. It’s a conversation that challenges our assumptions, blending history, politics, and crime into a nuanced and captivating narrative.

Ger Eric’s books. See other books by clicking here.

Transcript
[0:00] Well, hey, welcome, all you wiretappers. Glad to be back here in studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Detective, a later sergeant, and I have in the studio today a prolific mob author and a guy that’s written with, I know you guys know, Gus Russo and the outfit book in Chicago. Well, this is a contemporary of Gus Russo, Eric Dezenhall. Eric, I really appreciate you coming in and sharing your stories about the wise guys in the White House with my wiretappers here. Thanks very much for having me. And I won’t say too many things about Gus, given that I talk to him every day. And I don’t want to have to face him. So I’ll be kind. Yeah, he’s a good guy. I interviewed him once. I got to get him back on. You know, there’s a lot of new books coming out all the time. But I need to get him back on because he’s so knowledgeable. So we’re not here to talk about Gus Russo. We’re here to talk about wise guys in the White House, which is probably kind of topical right now. The White House has been more topical in the last, what, eight years or so than

[1:03] it’s ever been in my entire 79 years. It’s just crazy. But first of all, Eric, tell the guys a little bit about your past writing. You have a whole bunch of books. And so tell the guys a little bit about your story through the last 10, 15 years.

[1:18] Well, I’ve written 12 books. This is my 12th.

[1:22] My fiction tends to deal with organized crime. My nonfiction deals also with organized crime. My last book actually was with Gus Russo called Best of Enemies, and it was the true story of two spies, a CIA guy and a KGB guy, who were assigned to flip each other, but they ended up becoming best friends and bringing down the worst traitor in American history, the FBI’s Robert Hansen. I had done a historical novel. I’ve known some of Meyer Lansky’s family much of my life and had access to a lot of his records. And I did a historical novel called The Devil Himself about his role with Luciano during World War II. and I fictionalized it, even though it is a factual story. I used the basis of fact to tell the story of Lansky because of so much of what I learned about what he emotionally wanted out of the World War II project, as well as the Navy commander. I mean, I’m not really a creature of the mob, even though I grew up around it. I’m more of a creature of Washington, where I’ve lived for 40 years. And what was interesting to me about the World War II story was not just the mob, but the naval officer who took the risk of working with the mob. And it’s one of those things where classic Washington story, you take a risk, you’re told to win, and when you win.

[2:49] Then everybody goes, oh my God, this guy worked with mobsters, which they knew, and then what happened to his career, which was devastating.

[2:57] So I’ve been very interested in the myths and realities of World War II. And the new book, Wise Guys in the White House, this has been cooking for about 40 years. I was a young aide in Reagan’s White House. Yeah.

[3:11] I tell the story at the beginning of the book where on one of my first days i told my boss she said where do you live where you’re from and i said i’m from cherry hill new jersey there was a big mob war at the time uh when angelo bruno had been killed in march of 1980 and my boss said uh oh cherry hill that’s that’s big mafia and i said well yeah the gambinos lived there they were my neighbors and uh but muhammad ali lived there too and she and one of the people said well you know the mob killed JFK. And I said, what are you talking about? Oh, they run the country. I said, we’re 20 feet from the Oval Office. Where are you? Do you know these guys? Where are you getting this? And it’s stuck with me for 40 years. And finally, enough files came out, enough people were willing to talk that I thought I had a book in the history of the presidency in organized crime, what really did happen, what didn’t happen, what people think happened that didn’t happen. And the bottom line is there have been extensive dealings going back to the FDR administration with organized crime. But it’s not like the president at three in the morning is inviting mobsters

[4:25] into the Oval Office and then they’re tiptoeing out. It’s much more attenuated, but it’s very, very real.

[4:33] Yeah, it’s it’s much more sophisticated or or like so many different cutouts. The president never talks to, you know, Carlo Gambino or John Gotti or any of these guys. But these guys talk to their local politician who then has a connection to the larger party, maybe on a state level. And then on a state level, then they end up maybe up with the with the attorney general or something. I think the Chicago, uh, the, the, uh, Chicago film, uh, scandal where the, the Chicago outfit guys, Paul Reek and some of them got out of prison early out of Leavenworth early with Harry Truman’s help. Right. With, with his, his, uh, uh, uh, attorney general, Tom Clark’s help. And Truman had to know that that was going on, but Truman was owed his career to Pendergast. So it, in, in a, you know, indirect way. So it’s, you know, that’s, that’s just how it works.

[5:31] That’s right. And we, you know, with Harry Truman, I mean, a lot of people, everybody knows that he came from a political machine, but they don’t know that it was a mafia controlled machine, not just a political machine, the Lazio family. And you hear you had a person who was selected by a mafia machine who ended up becoming president of the United States. And of course, dropped the bomb on Japan. Did the mob have anything to do with that? No. But it’s amazing to think that history turned on a president that was, in fact, selected with the help of organized crime. And Truman, interestingly, is not unlike Trump in the sense that he admitted that to a large degree, his dealings with the mob. And I think one of the things we’ll talk about is the extent to which some people, everything was ...

The Presidents and the Mob