Karolina Sarna is founder of the wonderfully named Rebel Strategy Lab. She also writes and codes. On that basis alone I would want to record an episode. Even better though, she is an alumnus of the European Space Agency and Iceye, meaning she has a huge amount to contribute on the subject of earth observation.

Iceye, by the way, have already come on the show.

So, we covered:

- How her background created an appetite for demand side thinking.
- The defence pivot in commercial EO — why it's happening, what it's costing the climate/humanitarian side, and whether there's a structural way back.
- Why "strong technology" keeps getting cited as the reason companies don't scale, and why that's usually wrong.
- Her views on the Geoawesome Top 100.

There was some issues with the internet, please forgive us for the occasional bad sound.

So, my main reflection here is that it is possible to pivot out of industry into strategy consulting. Karolina had a great sense of humor and used this to deliver sensible points about the need for a constant focus on current problems in the industry you want to serve. Your product needs to help customers with those problems to make progress. She accompanied this message with another constant - stop focusing on the amazing technology involved in launching a satellite. This does not automatically mean you are solving someone’s problem. Earth observation satellites in fact deliver mostly noise. She reinforced this idea to the end, with a straightforward message about the limits of industry awards. Instead of the Geoawesome Top 100, we should instead focus on other industries identifying something great about a geospatial product. Then wait for that industry outside geospatial give an award to the company that makes this useful product.