B (3:35)

Well, that's awesome. Now, since you and your cousins share so much, did you make your cousin also get ocd or is that something,

A (3:44)

you know, what is wild? I have actually talked to her about certain things that I've noticed with her where I'm like, hey, that's something very familiar to some things that I've dealt with. And I don't want to assume that everything is OCD now, because I. It's been about a year since I've looked into it, got diagnosed, so I'm not an expert by any means, but I do just, you know, it only took one person to really make me aware of it, and it kind of changed everything for me. So I have mentioned her before.

B (4:17)

So how now that you can look back, you've got the diagnosis, you've done some treatment, now that you look back, what did you miss that was ocd? Because I hear this a lot where. And this is one of the things we know that it can take almost two decades before somebody recognizes having symptoms to actually getting the diagnosis, getting the right treatment. You're kind of a classic story on what we hear about. So when you look back now, what was OCD that you thought might have been other things or people told you were other things?

A (4:49)

Yeah. Well, this goes all the way back to when I was, like, childhood. You can ask anyone in my family. It was constantly. Sierra is a worrier. Sierra's, you know, she's every situation that you could think of. Sierra thinks of the worst possible situation. And that was, like a funny quirk that was happening with me. It's like I didn't realize that not everybody had, you know, the movie's final destination. Okay. So how it shows, one little thing transpires, and then it causes, like, the most catastrophic event to happen.

B (5:26)

The butterfly effect of death. Yes. Yeah, exactly.

A (5:29)

I would walk into any room and, like, picture that happening. And I thought that that was just, you Know, a little form of anxiety, and that that was normal, that a lot of people did that. But where it was a bit different was when I look back and realize that when my mom would drive us in the car on the highway and I was convinced that we would get in a car wreck, I would count backwards from 10 over and over and over again. And that, I thought was just a way to distract myself so that I wasn't thinking about it. Now, looking back at it, I think it was probably something else. And then there were little things, especially with the podcast. I was terrified of going on tour, of traveling. I have horrible flight anxiety. So I was really scared of flying. And we were. I was able to fly after doing extensive searching on my phone and looking up things about plane crashes and how planes work and, I mean, hours and hours of researching this stuff. And then finally when we would get on the plane, I would have to listen to the same two songs when we would take off and land so that the plane wouldn't crash.

B (6:50)

Of course. Yes, yes.

A (6:52)

Very logical. Very logical things going on.

B (6:55)

100%. We built the city on rock and roll. Keeps all planes in the air at all times.

A (7:01)

Exactly. So that again, there was. When we were doing the shows, when we first went on tour, um, it was a funny thing that it was camp themed and I wore a visor, which is not like a camp counselor hat, but I thought it was funny to wear the visor. But we had a great show when I wore the visor. And then I could not do a

B (7:19)

show without got to wear the visor. Yep. Gotta. Gotta wear the visor.

A (7:24)

So. Yeah. Little things like that.

B (7:28)

Yeah. Boy, a lot of people miss superstitions as being. When they're. They could actually be composed compulsions. Right.

A (7:36)

That was 100. What I was thinking. I was like, I am just. Maybe I'm just a little superstitious or, you know, I'm just a little quirky. I'm a little different. I have these little. Little things that I have in my head, but it's not a big deal. Except when it was taking up hours and hours and hours of my life.

B (7:53)

Yeah. It's a little more in a quirk. Yeah. There.

A (7:56)

Yeah.

B (7:59)

And then, of course, once you say this, how many people came out of the woodwork? Oh, I have a little OCD too, you know.

A (8:07)

So many, so many. And it was. It was always like, you know, I like to keep my house a little neat, by the way. I'm not a neat person at all. Like, my house is kind of a disorganized mess, which is why I thought I didn't have it. I was like, I'm not, like, quintessential ocd. That's not me. Until I really looked into it. But, yeah, the amount of people that are like, oh, if this picture isn't hung just right, like, the little things wrong, I'm like, well, it's a little bit. It's a little bit different than that.

B (8:37)

Do you ever have to wear a visor for five hours? Yeah. No. Okay. Yeah.

A (8:41)

At every single show, or else you won't go on stage. Yeah, A little different.

B (8:48)

Yeah. Because that's the thing. And, you know, both of us being in media, we see the good and the bad of it, but the bad of media, for OCD is number one, Mental compulsions are boring television. So it would look like this. You know, that's not very exciting. And most people then just think of OCD as being. Washing your hands or straightening things, and they don't realize all of this other stuff. Like, you have this notion, which, again, if you told people some of this, that, like, that sounds ridiculous, but you have this notion that I can control the world with what hat I wear and the song I play.

A (9:34)

Right.

B (9:35)

That. That. That is me being in control of the world, and if I do it wrong,

A (9:41)

and then it's my fault. It's my fault, and horrible things will happen, and that'll be on me.

B (9:47)

Yeah. And that's why I. I like to talk about you. OCD doesn't just work on anxiety. It's also guilt and shame and disgust and all these other things that can happen that drive you to do the behaviors that you do.

A (10:00)

Yeah. Yeah, it was. You know, I think it took so long for me to realize, because with especially, well, both the intrusive thoughts and the compulsions, I really kept a lot of it quiet from everybody, even my husband, because it was, like, embarrassing to say out loud. I thought, this is so irrational what I'm thinking, and even more irrational that I. I assume that if I wear this or that I have to wear this because this bad thing will happen, or I have to listen to this because this bad thing will happen. Like, I knew it didn't sound logical, but it didn't matter because it was. It was reality in my head. So that embarrassment and, like, shame around that became so big that I was just isolating myself from everything and everybody. I just thought, maybe if I'm not around those things, maybe if I don't do those things, I won't have those thoughts and. And I can, like, live a normal,

B (10:56)

normal, normal life, whatever that is.

A (11:00)

Right, right. Which wasn't helping at all.

B (11:03)

No. And it takes so much time and energy, doesn't it, to hide it from everybody else. Not only to live it, but also to hide it.

A (11:12)

I had no idea until I started therapy how exhausted I was from this, how tiring this was. It was draining me every day to not only keep it quiet, but also feel that pressure of, like, I'm in control and this is all on me. And it was just this immense pressure of I have to do everything, these certain ways or. Or terrible things will happen. And that was just. I was up Googling things at night, checking, rechecking. My doors are locked, my straightener's not on, my oven's not on, like, hours and hours and getting, like, two to three hours of sleep a night. And it was just. It was. I was, like, not an. I was a shell of a person, essentially.

B (12:00)

So then you're told about ERP where you're like, all right, you're gonna have to face these things. And your first reaction likely was, say what?

A (12:09)

I don't know that I. I don't want to do that. It was very scary. Very scary. When you hear about. You know, they say exposure is part of it. So that terrible thought you have, we're going to face it head on. And that was. I'm. I'm thinking, okay, But I do all of these things so that I don't have to face that thought. So I don't. I don't want to do that. And it wasn't until I kind of realized that OCD is the more compulsions you do, the more it feeds those thoughts. And it was just like I was feeding it over and over again. It really spiraled after, actually. After I had my daughter, I kind of always had a little bit, I thought. But so I had my son in 2012, and then 10 years later, I got pregnant with my daughter. So bit of an age gap. And I had had two pregnancy losses in between. So the one that was happening right before I got pregnant with her happened two, three months before I got pregnant with her again. And we ended up losing that pregnancy on Thanksgiving, right after announcing to everybody that I was pregnant, like, I'm talking 30 minutes maybe after. And so it became like, okay, we can't talk about it. We can't be happy about it. I can't say anything that will or won't happen. And if I do, I have to say another thing to kind of cancel it out. And then when she was born, I thought, oh, it'll get better now. You know, there's so much worse. So much worse.

B (13:52)

101 Ways for your child to die today. Truly, truly.

A (13:56)

Every situation you could think of was just, like, constant loop in my head. Social media doesn't help, of course.

B (14:02)

No, no, no.

A (14:03)

It was just like, oh, that could happen. No, that has happened. Yeah. So, yeah, it was terrible. But that's kind of when I realized that this could be something bigger than. Than what I thought.

B (14:19)

And then obviously, you've hidden things from family, your husband, but then you don't even enjoy your own child. Right. Because you. How can you enjoy something that you're so afraid of losing and all you do is just try to not lose them? There's no joy in that whatsoever.

A (14:35)

Oh, it was horrible. I. I think about that all the time because she is probably going to be my last baby. And I didn't enjoy it at all. The pregnancy, I didn't enjoy. When she was a newborn, I was just like, I need this to be done and over with because this is. This is not a good way to live. And it turns out that every stage that she got to, there were more and more fears because it wasn't about her being a baby. It wasn't about being pregnant. Something much deeper than that. But, yeah, it was. I wasn't sleeping, and I also wasn't letting anybody help me because nobody could help me or she would pass away. That's what was happening in my mind. I had to be the one watching her, and I had to watch her all the time. And so I, again, felt like a zombie. And most of those memories are kind of lost in, like, the fog of what that time was. It's. It's sad.

B (15:30)

Yeah. And it's a story repeated over and over, unfortunately. You know, one thing I'll say to people is, will you spend the rest of your life sitting next to your tombstone wondering when you'll be under it? Or will you enjoy your life from the day of your death, arrive at your tombstone saying, well, that was fun. And a lot of people sadly just sit next to it and staring at it going, I wonder when I'm going to be under that. I wonder when I'm going to be. That's going to happen. Right. And they don't live their life.

A (15:56)

Yeah, that's exactly what I was doing for myself and for my children. It was like I was constantly, like, on edge about it's. When's it going to happen? And it will happen, by the way. This is how I know ERP works because I would have never said that loud before because I couldn't have or else it would come true.

B (16:14)

Yeah. Yeah. Like, ah, I gotta go. Hold on. Yeah, right.

A (16:19)

But yeah, that's, it's, yeah, it, it's amazing how much you, you're, you realize that you're losing when you look back at that and how much kind of. I don't know, I just. It was wild how, how much it took from me, I guess.

B (16:39)

Yeah. What have people seen the post therapy? You. How do they describe the difference?

A (16:49)

Happier. Lighter. I get lighter a lot. I get. I actually just had therapy right before I came here, honestly, at three o', clock, and she said, you know, you're smiling so much more and you just seem like you're glowing and like lighter. And I said, I feel that I can feel the lightness. I feel like I'm actually enjoying things and not pretending to enjoy things and, you know, putting on this show of, yeah, I'm having a good time because I'm supposed to be having a good time. It's like I actually can feel the joy and the, and the good in it.

B (17:26)

That's amazing. I'm thrilled for you. I mean, it makes me happy because I spent 26 years doing this to try to help people with this and to teach people how to help people to do this. So I'm thrilled that that has continued into your life and that you can, you can live the life you want to live now and not the life that OCD wants you to live. Which is great.

A (17:49)

Exactly. Exactly. And I, like, it's so emotional because I just recently took my children to Disney for the first time. I've never been to Disney, so it was my first time going. And when I say that that trip, first of all, was the best trip I've ever taken in my life. But I fully believe it would not have been had I not be been doing the work that I've been doing with ERP like, it. When I say it's life changing, I mean, genuinely, I feel like I've gotten parts of my life back and I feel like my, my kids have gotten the good parts of their mom back. Because as much as I thought I was doing things to protect them, it was very obviously limiting me and also putting stressors on them that I didn't realize. Like, it was very obvious that it was affecting them in a negative way. And I never wanted that. That's always what I've been trying not to do. But I was accidentally doing it because I was trying so hard not to.

B (18:52)

You didn't have to do erp, right? I mean, obviously you, you've tried lots of different therapies, and I, I, I don't know. We've never talked before this. Right. So I'm going to make some assumptions. You were taught things like diaphragmatic breathing muscle. Uh, when you have a thought you don't, like, replace it with one that you do all of those things. I'm going to assume none of those were very helpful. Actually.

A (19:14)

Not at all. Not at all. And it's sad because with the podcast that we have, I have been very transparent about how great I think therapy is. I, I'm a therapy advocate all the time. Um, and, but I would tell people, they would say, well, are you in therapy? And I'm like, no. I, I was, it just, it didn't work for, for me. Like, it didn't work. And I remember, you know, I was talking about all of these different things. I wanted to try medications or I was even like, psychedelics. I mean, what can I do? I need to change something. And therapy that I've been trying is not working. And there were comments that were, like, kind of in a negative way, saying they thought that I was just making excuses. And I'm like, I promise. I, I really do believe in therapy. I'm, I'm just telling you it didn't work the way that I wanted it to. And in fact, I think it made it worse.

B (20:06)

Yeah.

A (20:07)

And it can.

B (20:08)

That's the problem. Yeah.

A (20:09)

That was the best thing, honestly, when I heard that, it was so validating because I was like, oh, thank God it's not me. I mean, it is kind of like it was a combination of I just wasn't doing the right thing for me. And it wasn't that I was making an excuse or that I didn't want to get better, just genuinely wasn't working.

B (20:28)

Yeah. So now you get the right therapy and you are now facing fears, doing things, living life. But it also isn't that OCD is gone. Right. I mean, part of, I think doing this treatment is also that acceptance of the fact that going to live with intrusive thoughts and images and urges for the rest of your life, as does every other human being in the world. Frankly, people with OCD have a bit of a different reaction to them than people without ocd. How have you gone to accept those being a part of your life versus in the past, having to make them go away?

A (21:12)

I think, honestly, it's just really through ERP Kind of letting go of some of that control and realizing that, you know, what's going to happen is going to happen. And I have to know that, like, I'm doing the best that I can be doing or certain things that. That are out of my control will just be out of my control. But I have to know that no matter what, I'm trying my best. And I hope that the people around me know that I'm trying my best. And, you know, I. I would never intentionally hurt anybody. I would never intentionally hurt myself or, you know, if I had a health issue, because I think harm OCD and health OCD were my two big ones.

B (21:54)

Okay.

A (21:55)

And it was always this thought of, like, if I didn't take care of myself or if I was not paying attention, well, to my children or whatever, that something would happen to me or to them and it would just ruin their lives. And so knowing that that's a possibility, it could happen. But I have. I have to believe and know in myself that I love them and they know that I love them and that I'm doing everything I can for them without giving it to the compulsions that. That I was doing before.

B (22:31)

Is there also a different kind of love for yourself now versus what you felt before?

A (22:36)

Immensely, Yeah. I was always just kind of like, again, embarrassed by myself and ashamed. And, you know, there was a part of me that knew that the things that I was doing were inadvertently hurting other people, but also really hurting myself. And so that was hard to deal with. But I'm just, like, proud now. I feel really proud. I feel really strong. Because the thing with ERP is it is hard. It was not easy. And, you know, we, me and my therapist have talked a lot about how I celebrate the wins now because even though they don't seem big to people, they are one step at a time giving me my life back. And it is huge. That's huge to me. So I try to sit and celebrate those little wins as much as I can.

B (23:30)

So let's say a thought now comes by like, do you still wear the visor? Or can we not wear the visor anymore? Or do we wear.

A (23:39)

We did a different tour then. It was sleepover themed. Well, then I started wearing long, fuzzy pajama socks and that became my new visor. Right. My co star and best friend told me, hey, I'm noticing this a little bit. And so one day I. The socks were so hot, by the way. You're hot on stage. It's not like they were comfortable to wear.

B (24:04)

Right, Right. But they're saving the world, so it's okay.

A (24:10)

And I have to wear them. So one time I was like, you know what? You're right. And I had been doing ERP I'm like, these socks are so hot, and I don't want to go on stage. And I took them off, and it was like, okay, we're going to see. We're gonna see what happens. And nothing bad happened. It was actually a great show. And so it's been little things like that. You know, I was able to go on the plane and not listen to the song because we were traveling with my child. So instead, I was playing games on my phone and trying to calm her down, and nothing bad happened. It was the same plane ride that we've been on. So, yeah,

B (24:48)

as you look back, because I love these conversations where people have really come through therapy because a. I think it's so motivating for people who are debating, should I do this? Right. So let's go there first. Somebody's watching this right now wondering if they should do therapy and do ERP Specifically. Right. What would you say?

A (25:10)

Yes.

B (25:12)

I figured that was good.

A (25:12)

I'm not sure. 100%, yes. And even if you don't know for sure, because I wasn't sure, which I'm also learning is. Is a little bit of ocd. Is the doubt of it all?

B (25:25)

It is the doubting disorder.

A (25:27)

Yeah. Yeah. And so that part of it, I was like, I don't even think this is what I have. Even though I had had at this point, really looked into it and kind of seen that everything was matching up. But I thought, what's. What's the worst that could happen in doing the first call and kind of seeing these things? And then, you know, I'll do the first session, and we'll see. You know, at the very least, they can tell me. They'll tell me if I'm making it all up, because that's what my brain was telling me is you're actually making this all up, and none of this is real. So. Yeah, and get. Get to that step, and then, you know, you'll realize how it seems intimidating, but once you really get there, it's kind of like the ball. The ball's rolling, and you just kind of roll with it.

B (26:18)

Yeah, that's cool. All right, so back to some of those other things. You know, you. You've gone through this. You're living this life now. People see the change. Do you ever kind of get. Just get caught up in the moment of that where you think for all the years that you were doing compulsions, does it ever kind of still surprise you to this day? Like, oh, wait, I just did that and I didn't have to. Yeah, it does.

A (26:53)

Oh, 100%. Yeah. And the biggest thing is, like, I think I started to talk about this. I can't remember if I got off track again. Apologies, ADHD as well. But when I took my children to Disney, I think that was like, the biggest, you know, thing for me. Traveling on a plane with my kids was like a, we're not doing that. We can't. And, you know, I didn't like going into big public places, which, hello, Disney is like one of the biggest spring

B (27:22)

breaks in the world.

A (27:24)

Yeah. And, you know, going somewhere where there was so many things that could go wrong. You know, like, I remember there was. There's a thing with me in roller coasters that I. I don't like. And we were going to ride the Slinky Dog coaster, and I was kind of freaking out because it had just rained really, really hard. And in my mind, I was like, that is going to fly right off the tracks. It doesn't make sense to me how it's not. I don't understand the mechanics. And so my brain was just like, yeah, that's what's going to happen. You guys are going to get on the roller coaster. It's going to fly right off the tracks. And, you know, good job. You did that, Moms.

B (28:04)

Yes, that's why.

A (28:06)

Sorry, go ahead.

B (28:08)

That's why all trains must stop when it's raining, because they just go off the tracks all over the country

A (28:15)

there. And I'm. I'm talking to my husband about it. I was like, what do you think the mechanics are? That's not going to happen. Right. Kind of reassurance speaking, I was realizing. And then I'm looking it up, the things. And my son, who is 14 now, bless him, I have not really hid any of this from him because I think it's important to talk about. And he was like, mom, I think this is ocd. And I was like, wow. I was like, wow, he caught that absolutely right. And I said, you're right. And so I sat with myself. I did some ERP work, and we got in line and. And we went on the roller coaster. And I sat beside him. He linked arms with me. And I wasn't terrified the entire time. I was able to have fun. I let go. And it. It was great. It. We have a picture of the roller coaster with us just, like, beaming and smiling and Laughing and having a great time. And I was like, that would have been something, I think that I would have been robbed of a couple years ago because I would have said, no, we're absolutely not doing that.

B (29:20)

Right.

A (29:21)

So those moments, I think, are when I'm really like, wow, this. This wouldn't have been possible.

B (29:27)

Yeah, it's amazing. And your children get such a role model now, right, of someone who has recognized what's going on, made the choice to face the fears, and is now living the life that she wants to live because of that choice to face fears. And I just. I congratulate you on what that has done for you and your family. I think is wonderful.

A (29:52)

Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's. That was, you know, the biggest reason I did it was I was seeing in my kids again, like, my youngest was, you know, we weren't going to the playgrounds as much because of the. The things that could happen when she's on the. The toys. And I could tell that I was kind of shielding her from things. And people were calling me a helicopter mom, which, like, fair. No, it was a little bit bigger than that. And I could tell that it was affecting her. But then my 14 year old, I really could tell that it was affecting him because he was starting to feel, like, anxious about certain things that I knew it stemmed from my fears and my obsessive, intrusive thoughts. And I was like, I can't be this for them anymore, and I don't want to be this for me anymore. So, you know. Yeah, I really thank you for saying that because it is. That's the whole reason I did it.

B (30:50)

How do you bring mental health and awareness into the work you're doing? How does it come up and what does your platform talk about in that area?

A (31:00)

Um, so with the podcast, we kind of started it as, obviously, ladies who tangent so very much don't stay on topic and kind of just. We're all over the place. We usually come with a topic, but the tangents happen in the beginning. And. And we were just kind of like, let's talk about. We didn't want a set thing. We didn't want to put ourselves in a box. And we were like, I. Let's do some. I just like to, like, look things up. Anyways, again, I'm realizing a little bit of that was the ocd, but I'm a big, like, I'll go down the Google rabbit holes. So if there's something that I haven't heard of or I want to know more of I'll just read a bunch of articles. And so I was doing things like that and bringing it to Jerry, and we would talk about it, and that would be kind of the episode. But I think the third. Third or fourth one that we did was about anxiety. And because we were doing, you know, we were just reading from psychology articles. So we always say, hey, we're not professionals. We don't know what we're doing. But at the same time, we're going to talk about our experience, we're going to read the article and then kind of put our own personal touch in it. So we. We typically talk about only things that we have, like, a firsthand experience with. But we got very vulnerable with that episode and got a very positive response from that. And then it kind of just became, you know, if this is how we got a lot of messages that were, like, through your story, I didn't feel so alone or that made me realize that I needed to get help or, like, a lot of things similar to that. And through doing that, it was kind of like, okay, this is important. Even if it's just me telling what's going on in my life, I think this vulnerability and willingness to say things that maybe people wouldn't talk about is important. And we've always kind of done that. So that's. It's. Maybe we overshare sometimes. Definitely. But I think if we can make one person. One person feels. Feel like they aren't alone in what they're going through, then it's worth it.

B (33:10)

I felt the same in my career. If I could help one person, great. Anybody passed that icing on the cake, right?

A (33:15)

Just a bonus.

B (33:16)

Yeah, a lot of bonuses, which I'm thrilled about. And, you know, it's. It's. It's a great experience where whether you're in this professionally, whether you're in this as a person who's been affected by it, that you can take whatever knowledge you've gained and you can disseminate it out to people, and it can influence them to make choices in their life that improve their ability to function, move forward, grow all those things. And so I commend you for having done that. I think it's great.

A (33:49)

Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's, again, the best part of the job. And what I don't think they realize is that through this, that one person that I was helping was also myself, because they've given me so many realizations of, like, hey, maybe this is something you need to look into. Hey, I have similar thoughts, like that. And this is what I. I might have. So it. They've helped me as well. And. And that's just been huge.

B (34:18)

Yeah. And those little examples you just said about how it's. How it's affected your relationship to be able to be closer with your husband, with your children, you know, those are the things that. I don't know. That people realize we're in the midst of it. I mean, I'm going to bet, when all of it was going on, because OCD is just so all about me. All about me. OCD doesn't care about your children.

A (34:40)

Yes.

B (34:40)

OCD doesn't care about your family, other than saying, here's the worst case scenario thing that could happen. Do this. But that's really just to feed OCD to do more compulsions, because it loves compulsions, right?

A (34:50)

Yes, exactly. And we. I was actually talking to my husband about this recently when we were talking about me doing this, you know, I was like, we were kind of going back to when I was in the thick of it, which was about. After I had my daughter, Sawyer. And he reminded me of. There was a time where I. Him and I got into a pretty decent height because I wouldn't accept any help. And at the time I was calling him, he was a nurse. He's a surgical nurse, so he was working at a surgery center. He obviously can't leave. He can't come and help me. But I was calling and texting him that I can't leave my bed because I haven't slept for. If at this point, I maybe slept for 45 minutes at a time, but for like three days, so very, very little amount of sleep. And I was convinced that if I held her and walked with her, that I would drop her. I couldn't go down the steps, which was where the food was for me. And I. He was like, please call my mom. My mom will come. And I was like, I can't. I can't do that. If she comes over here, like, and I'm not watching Sawyer, she'll die. I. I couldn't explain why that was rational to me. And so he was very frustrated by it. And we were kind of going back and forth, and he was just so upset that he could see me struggling. And I just. He. He said it earlier. He was like, you just were refusing to help yourself. And I was like, I thought I could help handle it through what I was doing. And I. But I also knew I couldn't. So it was such a horrible time period, but I couldn't put a name to it or understand what it was. And so it just was what it was.

B (36:33)

And you found there what I talked to a lot of people about this idea that this is an emotional problem, not a logical problem.

A (36:40)

Yes, right. 100%.

B (36:43)

People could present you with logic and you'd be like, no. Yeah, yeah, no.

A (36:49)

Worst fears that I have. Which is what it's like, yeah, that's gonna fuel my emotions way more than logic is going to. Because you're using the thing I am most afraid of losing or the, the worst possible thing I could think of. And you're saying, yeah, that is, that's gonna be a reality and that's on you.

B (37:07)

Yeah, yeah. And. And I think that that's sometimes too why other therapies fail. Because therapists attempt to be logical with, with ocd and OCD sits down and goes, oh please.

A (37:18)

Nope, we're not going there.

B (37:20)

70 hours of this. Sounds fun, let's go. You know.

A (37:23)

Exactly. And I really started to, to notice that like the illogical parts of it, I mean for a while there were some. Obviously you could say things like the visor or the song, but to me I was like, oh, that's just a superstition or it's a little thing. Until I started doing erp and honestly this is a. When I was doing it, it felt like it was getting worse at first, right? Yeah, worse before it gets better.

B (37:49)

Yep.

A (37:50)

And it was throwing like the most illogical things. I remember one night my mother in law came over to help us decorate for Christmas. So it was around this last Christmas time, around November, December, and we got into my hot tub, we had a Christmas ale, I had one in the hot tub. And then I went to bed and I had to take my son to school at 6:30 in the morning on the way to school. I am convinced that I actually was drinking so much last night and that I ended up getting blacked out drunk. And then I did drugs which I don't even have access to, but it was like, no, my brain was telling me you actually did drugs and you're still drunk and you're driving your child right now. And it was so bad I got him to school, but then I had to pull over on the side of the road. I had a full on panic attack and I was going to drive myself to the hospital to go get blood work done to check and make sure that I wasn't on drugs or like drunk still. And that was like the most wild thought I've ever. I was like, wow, that talk about illogical that was just like out of left field. And it really felt like OCD was just throwing whatever it could at me and trying to get it to stop, stick. Like.

B (39:06)

Sure.

A (39:06)

I'm just going to throw the most out of control things your way.

B (39:09)

I mean, I've had people who've not driven, heard about a hit and run, called the police just to have them come and see if it was them.

A (39:16)

Yes. Yes. 100%. Yeah. So it's like, this is not going to make sense. But, you know, I've. I've also then I read about people with OCD who did the same thing where they heard about a murder or something that happened in a different state, and they were convinced that. That they had to turn themselves in, that it was them. So I'm like, that made me feel a little bit better, but at the same time I knew this is not. This is not logical, what's happening up here.

B (39:44)

Yeah. So you're going to carry forward with your podcast, which I love, and you're going to do that and be an advocate, and people are going to write to you and thank you for being a turning point. And I'm going to thank you too, for being one of those people out there who set a great example of what actually good therapy looks like. Right. Not just therapy, but finding the right treatment for the condition, getting the right diagnosis. It's the thing we preach all the time here. And it's why people with OCD suffer. Because you've probably seen this too. You can go to a certain publication and find a list of 100 therapists in your neighborhood who say they specialize in 95 different things.

A (40:33)

Yeah.

B (40:33)

And they work with adults, children, adolescents, you know, everybody. And they know 12 different kinds of therapy also, which is bullshit.

A (40:45)

Oh, yeah, I did it. I'm telling you. I probably went to 5 or 6 before trying ERP and none. None of it worked. It just. It worked. It was like a temporary band aid and then it would. It didn't actually solve the problem.

B (41:02)

Yeah. It just explodes, Right?

A (41:03)

Yeah. And I would say to people I know, I talk therapy is not working because I know what's going on. Like, I can understand where. Like, I didn't know what the thoughts were or why they were happening, but I understood the emotions I was feeling. I didn't really need to talk through that. I just was like, this is not normal. What's going on up here cannot be the way that everyone functions. And so I have to. I gotta find the root cause of that and fix that.

B (41:29)

Awesome. Sierra. Any parting words before we go and tell people where they can find you and your podcast and all the information. Give. Give the details.

A (41:38)

Absolutely. So you can find us. We're ladies and tangents on pretty much all social media and we're on pretty much anywhere that you can find podcasts. So YouTube, we have full videos on there, but Spotify, Apple, iHeart, all of the. All of the audio places and yeah, ladiesontangents.com as well. We are going back on tour and I won't have to wear fuzzy socks all the time. So if you want to come see us, we have tickets available on our website, ladies and tangents.com and as far as parting words, I would just say, you know, if you feel like any of this is ringing a bell or you're struggling at all, it. OCD is not going to look the same for everybody. And it doesn't hurt to talk to somebody about it, to try to figure it out. Honestly, it's hard, but it is the most rewarding thing that you can do for yourself to get your life back, your peace, your sanity. It's not going to go away forever. It's always going to be something that's there, but you can manage, will be manageable. And if it feels like it's getting hard at first or worse, just stick it out because it's normal. And it doesn't mean that it's not working or that you are broken or anything like that. Just trust yourself, trust your instincts. And one of the things that I loved during ERP was that we named my ocd. His name is Brian. So now, now me and Brian, I know what voice is mine. I really can. From erp I feel like I can start to hear that's not a me thought. That's a Brian thought. That's not me, that's Brian. And it really helps me be able to rule out, you know, the doubt and all of those things. So, yeah, it's worth it and you can do it. It's hard, but you can do it.

B (43:42)

Awesome. Well, thank you for being here today. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much and thanks for being an inspiration to others.

A (43:50)

Thank you so much and thank you for all the work that you do. Truly. It's been life changing, so I appreciate you as well.

B (43:57)

Awesome. Thanks. Well, thanks everyone for watching another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. If you're looking for help for OCD or related conditions, you could check us out@nocd.com, that's n o c d.com and go to our NOCD YouTube channel where you can subscribe and you can watch my Wednesday night webinars and other episodes of the get to Know OCD podcast. And remember, be better to yourself than your OCD ever would be. We'll see you again soon. Thanks.