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Foreign.
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Hi, everyone, and welcome once again to another episode of the get to know OCD podcast. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the Chief Clinical Officer for NOCD. If you're looking for help for OCD or related conditions, check us out@nocd.com that's n o c d dot com. Today I have with me Ginny Fuch. Hi, Ginny, how are you?
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Hi. I'm doing good.
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B
You are a Olympic boxer, a mental health advocate, and one of the few elite athletes who speaks publicly about your experience with ocd, which thrills me to no end, let me tell you, and why you're here, frankly. So I was wondering if you could just tell everybody a little bit about yourself first, and then we can get into your history with OCD and how you've learned to live with.
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Yes, well, you already introduced my. Already introduced me. My name is Jenny Fuchs. I'm from Houston, Texas, and I am a professional, currently a professional boxer. I competed in the 2020 slash 2021 Tokyo Olympics, and I was diagnosed with OCD in 8th grade and have been struggling with it since. And it's been. Been kind of like a roller coaster. I've been impatient twice for it in my life, and I decided to go open about it when I had. When I started climbing the levels in my boxing career and I had that platform. So I decided to come open about it because I know it's misunderstood, and a lot of my boxing teammates would. Could see it and didn't understand. So when I started explaining it to them, kind of got me the courage to open up about it more to the public. And that's how I became a mental health advocate. And I. My story still continues with my ocd.
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B
Amazing. So young OCD comes into your life before you knew the words ocd, what was happening in your life that seemed different than the other kids that you
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knew do so around? I think it was like in sixth grade, me and one of my best friends decided to go on a diet because we, you know, we wanted to lose a little weight, get in shape. I took it to the extreme, and I think my OCD played into it. I didn't know at the time, but I had developed anorexia. And throughout my sixth grade year, seventh grade year, and then eighth grade year, it got very dangerously bad to where, you know, my parents were very worried about me, you know, whether I was going to live or die from it. And so they actually sent me off to inpatient treatment for my anorexia at a place in Arizona called Bermuda. And and in this treatment center, this is where my therapist discovered that the underlying, like, root cause of, you know, my anorexia behavior and it spiraling so bad, was my excessive compulsive disorder. And, you know, I would see a little of my oc. Well, now that I look at it today, I see my little OCD behavior. While I was anorexic, I was struggling with my anorexia, but I didn't know it was ocd. Right. So that's kind of how it was discovered. And my OCD is more based around, you know, contamination, fear.
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B
Okay.
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Yeah. So that's how it all began. And then, so after I went to treatment center for my anorexia, I actually went to Miner. I don't know if you've heard of that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually here in Houston now, but at the time, it was in Topeka, Kansas.
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B
Right. So Dr. Roaster Bjorgensen was running it back in the day, I believe.
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Yes, that's right. That's right. I met him before.
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Yeah, he's a friend of mine.
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Yeah, they're really nice, but. Yeah. So then I was sent to Miniger to work on my ocd, and I was there for about, like, a month, maybe a month and a half before I started high school. But, you know, and I'm still struggling with it today, but that's how, like, it all began for me.
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B
Okay. And you go for this treatment, they say ocd. Does that surprise you at all when you hear that OCD is involved in what's going on?
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Yeah. You know, I was so young, and I didn't. You know, I didn't even think I was anorexic. I didn't believe. Like, I'm like, why are they so. Why is everybody freaking out? I don't understand. I'm. I'm healthy. You know, to me, I was like, I'm healthy. I'm eating good. I'm in shape. I'm. I'm betting the best shape than all of my friends. I'm like. I just didn't understand why everybody was freaking out so much. You know, I. I do realize, like, with my. With my anorexia, I wasn't eating as much, but it was actually. It was the be. It was the routines of my exercise, and I had to do the exact routine every day, and if I did it wrong, I would have to add on to it, and that's where the OCD played into it. Gotcha. And so I knew that maybe was a little unusual, but again, to me, I was I looked at that as dedication and hard work. And this is where my athletic background comes in, too. But, you know, I look at that as, like, I'm, you know, I'm taking care of my body and being dedicated more than anybody. So I didn't. I didn't really understand it. I didn't really pay attention to it. I didn't believe I had it. I was just like, okay, whatever. You know, I didn't want to go to treatment center. The treatment center, obviously, I didn't want to go to therapist. I was very, very resistant towards it all, and I probably gave my parents hell for it. But back then, yeah, I was young and didn't understand it. And it. And also the, I guess the title of having OCD or, Or, you know, the mental health stigma that everybody, you know, back then, it was still pretty much a. A big stigma. And I didn't want to be known as that teenager with OCD because nobody and my friends did. Nobody really knew about it back then. And. Or, you know, still, people still don't really understand it. So I didn't believe it. I was just like, I'm being. I'm just being a little more clean than everybody. You know, I really focus on my clean list cleanliness more than anybody else. And, you know, my food intake. I'm just. I just more. I pay attention to more, to. To it more. And that's how. That's how I looked at it a
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B
lot of times with athletes or people who are excelling at something. You'll hear, boy, that OCD must have really helped you. And you had just had the reaction I was hoping you would, which was, nope. How do you. How do you kind of use something like that or a statement like that to educate people about the truth of OCD versus it? This. This idea that it's a superpower and it makes you do all these things. And. And it's. Because it's definitely not that by any means. No.
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Well, you know, I. Again, it's a misunderstood diagnosis. And, you know, and I go, I understand why you think that. Because people think OCD is very organized. You're very rigid, and you have a very rigid schedule and everything. And I mean, there. There's forms of that, obviously, but it's. It's not what that is at all. Like, my being an athlete and excelling in my boxing and getting, you know, the Olympic level and going professional, that's just. That's just my DNA genetics in me. I'm just a good athlete. And I try to tell People that I'm just a good athlete and I practice hard. My OCD is totally suffered from that.
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Right.
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It is actually debilitating, actually. If I didn't have ocd, maybe I could focus more on my athletics and my performance. And so I try to. I try to help people separate the two by explaining, like, you know, my athletics isn't just my athletic natural ability I have. And then my OCD is this, you know, this disorder that is actually very debilitating and, and causes a lot of disruption in my life. And it's not what, you know, the common population might think OCD is. So I just try to separate the two.
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B
Awesome. What was treatment for OCD like then? Because now you get out, you have the eating disorder, hopefully is now being managed, but now you've got this OCD thing that you've got to do deal with.
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Yeah, and that's the fun. That's how I knew it truly was ocd because after I got out of treatment, so I've been in treatment twice. So this is a, you know, the first time I was in treatment when I was young and then I started high school and I remember I went to do track that year and I, you know, I wanted to do the sprints and the hurdles, but my, the track, the track head tracker was like, no, you're going to be a distance runner. I've seen you be running after school. This was, you know, the beginning of my freshman year when I was only allowed to have 30 minutes of exercise. That was the deal between my parents and my doctor. So what I would do is just run. Because that's the way you would burn the most calories, right? Yeah, so I would do that right after school. So he saw me do that. So when track season came around, he goes, I want you to do distance running. And, you know, in my mind, I was. I never thought about doing distance or didn't even really like it, to be honest. I was just doing it to burn calories. But my first track meet, I broke the school record in the mile and two mile. And I was like, wow, I guess I am good at this. And so my mindset kind of changed with, all right, I can actually go far with this running. I want to take care of my body and I need to eat right, I need to fuel it right? So those whole. There's all those anorexic thoughts totally changed into eating right, to be healthy, to perform at my best ability. And then since then, bang. Like, I look at, I look at it now, like I remember Those anorexic thoughts and, like, you know, scared to be around food or smell food. And I mean, like, now that's totally out the window. I'm. I'm. I would never feel that way again because I recognize, like, oh, those were the anorexic thoughts and behaviors. And, you know, and I have never struggled it since. Since I got out of, you know, my freshman year in high school. I've never struggled with those anorexic thoughts since. It's those. That's. And then that's when I started more seeing the OCD stuff come along with the. Obviously with the contamination. And, you know, I. I had to do this. I had. I had to do this before I had to wash my hands. I had to wash my face before this way before I could get in the shower. So those routines and behaviors started to become more loud in high school. And then I get. And that's how I recognize more. Oh, maybe this is what they. They see with the ocd. And I started to understand it a little better.
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Yeah, I've. I've always loved the I have to clean myself before I take a shower routines. Those. Those are always, you know, some of the. Some of the interesting ones. I can't take a shower dirty. I have to be clean to take a shower. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So you did a show the me you cannot see. Tell me about that and what that experience was like.
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So after. So, you know, I've. I've managed my OCD pretty well throughout high school, got to college, and so, you know, obviously it was there, and my friends could see it. Like, even when I went to college, my friends could see it, and I would explain it to them. So it was there. It was prevalent, but it was in a pretty manageable state. And then I started boxing in college, and I started excelling greatly. After I graduated college, they announced that they were putting female boxing in the Olympics in 2010. So the 2012 London Games were the. The first Olympics where they had female boxing. So my goal was, I want to make it to the Olympics. I didn't make it to London, but for the 2016 Rio Olympics, I had won the Olympic trials, and that put me in the number one, number one flyweight spot in the nation, in the usa. So after I won the Olympic trials, USA Boxing, everybody who won the Olympic trials, USA Boxing had a residential program at the Olympic Training center in Colorado Springs, and they wanted the whole. Everybody that won the Olympic trials, the team to come move and live there and train. So this is Actually, the trials is actually 2015, so I moved there at the end of 2015. My whole life there. So I lived and trained at the Olympic Training Center. So my. What changed was all I had to do was focus on training and so, which was nice, but I had a lot of free time. And so that free time is what, where my OCD started taking more and more control of my life.
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B
It does like to fill things in, doesn't it?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have more time to clean. Right. More time to get it perfectly clean, perfectly feeling right. So I ended up not competing in Rio because he still. So after he win the Olympic trials, you have to qualify your weight class to get to the Olympics at international tournament. So I came up short there, but I was actually named team captain of that team. So I still got to go to Rio with the team and experience the Olympics. And so then I was like, all right, I was so close. I'm going to shoot for Tokyo. And I obviously made it for Tokyo. But those years in between, my OCD just started getting worse and worse because again, right. All this free time, all I had to focus on was training.
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B
Sure.
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So. And I can see it kind of spiral, spiring spy spirit. Spiraling. I could not.
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Spiraling, spiraling, spiraling, spiraling.
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You got too many shots to the head. Sorry.
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If only one of those shots would knock the OCD right out of there. Right. That would be great. Yeah.
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So. And I could see it. But you know, in my mind I was like, I got this, I got this. It's still. I have eye control. It's not going to get in the way my boxing or my life. But the end of 2018, the beginning of 2019, man, the OCD voice was so loud. I feel. I felt like I had no control. And this is actually the first moment in my life where I admit to myself, you. Where I was like, man, Jenny, you really do have ocd. You these behaviors and thoughts. I can't stop and I can't stop my compulsions. And it really scared me. And it was. I think it was. It was the beginning of a training camp for a tournament in Jan. In February in Bulgaria. And yeah, remember it was like that first week or the first two weeks, my OCD was just. I would. I would train and I would go back to my room and do my, you know, my compulsions of cleaning and whatnot. And then I'd go to training. I barely slept. I would barely slept. And then it was like a three day period where it was just literally controlled me Besides going to boxing training or strength, strength condition training. And I don't think I slept more than three hours for three days. And so, and I was just so wired because I was again chasing that clean feeling. And I felt like I was never going to achieve it. And I was going a little mad, but I think it was that third day where my body just, you know, I wasn't getting any sleep. And so I was, I felt like a little delusional. I was breaking down and. And I looked at myself in the mirror and was like, oh, my gosh, like, I need to do something. You know, I was scared. I didn't do something. I need help. And I called my, I called my coach and it just broke down. And I was like, look, I need help. I, you know, because he knew about it. And I was like, I don't, you know, and I know the Olympic, the Olympic trials for the Seattle for Tokyo are coming up. I need to do something. So it was at that moment where I was like, I need to put myself back in inpatient. So I went in back into. Impatient for that. And so that was my second time. So I was there for about a month. But after that, a reporter had reach. Like, this was right after I went into inpatient. A reporter had reached out to me, who I had talked to back in 2016, where I first opened up about my OCD. It was to her, actually, and she was, she was doing an article with the New York Times and she was like, hey, I'm just checking in on you. I want to know how your OCD is doing. And I know the Olympics are coming back around. And I was like, wow, it's funny, you reached me at the perfect time because I just came out of treatment center for it again and. And yeah, I'm getting ready to qualify. Qualify for Pan Ams, were at that time for the Pan Ams and the Olympic trials in the year. So she did a big article on me. And then I think about maybe two or three months later, our PR guy with USA Boxing called me. He goes, jenny, I just got a call from, from a producer that's working with Oprah and Prince Harry and they're doing a documentary series on mental health. And they came across your art, the New York Times article on you and would love for you to be in it. And I was like, wow, that's pretty cool. And they were like, there's a lot of high profile people in it, like Lady Gaga. Lady lady gaga. Glenn Coast DeRozan, the basketball player. And I, I mean, I didn't have to think twice about it, like, yeah, I want to do this. This is all awesome is Oprah and Prince Harry. So I'm all in. So that's how that came about.
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B
And. And how were Oprah and Prince Harry? I hope they were nice to you.
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So, unfortunately, I didn't get to meet because. Yeah, well, I was going to, like, so when I started this, this is right before COVID right? Literally right before COVID Oh. So, yeah, when I agreed to it, the, you know, the director and the whole production crew came out here to Houston to do the first filming of it. And then, you know, they were planning on coming to the Olympics. And, you know, it was gonna. It was supposed to come out, I think, like, in 2022 or 2021, after the Olympics, when Olympic. The Olympic was originally supposed to be in 2020, but then Covid hit. Right. And so, because they were eventually. They said, yeah, you'll eventually meet Oprah and Prince Harry. But then Covid hit, and because of that, they. They ended up coming to the Olympic Training center and doing a little more filming. But then they, you know, the plans of coming to the Olympics and. And keep on filming just stopped. And then I think an Oprah was like, because of COVID and then mental health was starting to boom, you know, like. Yeah, yeah, right. So she wanted to get the film out sooner than they had planned.
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Makes sense.
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So I never really got to meet Prince Harry and Oprah, unfortunately. Yeah.
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B
Hopefully being on the get to Know OCD podcast is a close second to the.
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Yeah, of course. Definitely
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B
in there, you talked a lot about the impact that you've seen OCD have on your life, your friends, your family, finances, training. And thank you, of course, for being so open about that, because again, the stigma of OCD is you're just trying to straighten things up a little bit, and you wash your hands. People don't see just the utter downside of what it's like to live with OCD when your life is ruled by all of these compulsions. And I wonder if you could just maybe take a little bit, because this is something we haven't talked as much on here about, but what was, like, the collateral damage of OCD on your life outside of you, but as it got to family and friends and. And all those things.
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Well, you know, when I was in. In high school, you know, my. My sister was already in college, so it was just me and my parents in the house. And again, you know, like, I would take. High school wasn't as bad as it, as it progressed as I got older. But you know, like the water usage and just when my friends would want to go out on the weekend and I'd be like, okay. And then I would get stuck in the routine and then it was too late and I'd have to call my friend and make an excuse and be like, I'm sorry, I can't, I'm not feeling well. And my, this is my best friend in high school. And then she eventually caught on. She goes, I know why you can't come out, man. But you know, she was forgiving but you know, like having to cancel plans in high school. But as I got older and especially when I moved to the Olympic Training Center, I had a roommate, one of my best friends currently. And you know, me, me doing. We share. We each had our own room but we, there was like a middle ground room and just like having to go to the store to get my supplies maybe late at night or being in my. Just being in my bathroom and showering maybe like, I mean it's, she could, it wasn't that loud but she could hear that I was you know, doing something and you know, not sleeping and resting or preparing for training. So you know, like that's how it would affect like my friends and family in a way financially. It still affects me financially. You know, like I will, I will forfeit and this has nothing to do with like doing my related to my anorexic anorexia days, but I will forfeit a meal to save money to buy paper towels or extra toothbrushes or Clorox wise. Because that's more important. Important than me to me than feeding my body.
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Sure.
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And you know, and, and just basic struggle with my finances is, you know, because I'm a professional boxer and that's not guaranteed consistent income. Right. So I need to be better with that. But I really don't care when it comes to my ocd. I don't care if I'm broke. I'll spend my last dollars on my supply, my OC supplies that will. That I need to do my compulsions.
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Yeah.
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So
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how much do you would you say OCD is in your life now versus when you were at the height there and you had to go back in to inpatient?
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Well, to be honest, it, it's, it's. It's very, very prevalent in my life right now. For one. Like I would, I don't have healthcare anymore because I'm not with USA Boxing. So I haven't been going to do therapy which is Bad on me because I need to find a way to still do it and still be consistent with that. Because I believe consistency with anything, even like. Like with my training. You gotta be consistent with training. You gotta be consistent with therapy to keep, you know, your ocd, manage it in a manageable state. So it's very. Yeah, it's very, you know, it's very prevalent. Not as severe as it was obviously, back in 2019. But I do sacrifice, like, you know, I am. I am a boxer. Right. So I. I'm dedicated to training and getting ready for fights. So my lifestyle is a little different than normal people. You know, I'm not. I can't really go out and do a lot, but I probably can do more than I am right now that I. I sacrifice it because I'd rather. I got. I got things to do at home to, like laundry. I gotta clean, I gotta clean. I'll have time to go out. So, yeah, it still affects me in that aspect again, and not as severe as was in 2019. I'm not. I don't get stuck in my compulsions as much. I'm able to stop them easier and move on, but they still show up quite a bit every day.
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B
Yeah. And I think that that's potentially hard for some folks to hear and yet also important to talk about, that this is a chronic condition. This is not a thing that you do treatment and it goes away, and then you don't have to worry about it. It's something that you have to live with instead of make go away.
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A
Oh, yeah, that's definitely. And that's why, you know, I. I say shame on me because I know that my therapist would probably work out something with me, but I just haven't tried to talk to her about it. But now that I'm doing this podcast, I think I might give her a call soon. But, yeah, no, consistency is key to everything, you know, everything in life, not just everything you do. I believe in that very wholeheartedly.
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B
There's a ton of discipline and control in boxing. Right. And how do you separate out doing that athletically and not let OCD come in and try to take that over, too?
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So one key thing I learned in inpatient was, you know, when you really get stuck in your OCD thoughts or, you know, let OCD trump everything you're doing, you gotta remember your values in life, your true values in life, and. And, like, why, you know, the. The whole point of what your. Your purpose and stuff. And so that it always stuck with me because I. I feel like, that's the, that's the certain values that I cherish in life, are the things that have gotten me through, you know, not letting my OCD totally take control. So obviously boxing is a value to me. It's my passion. My goal is to be the. One of the best in boxer in the world, one of the greats. And I, you know, I've been wanting that. It's a dream of mine. And I've been wanting that since I started boxing. And I. And I've always told myself I will never let boxing, my ocd, get in the way of my boxing. And it has come close, obviously, like I've told you, 20, 19, very close. And that's why I said I need help, because I was scared that it would. But that is such a strong value of mine and that. And that, that's what has helped me separate the two. Like when I'm in the boxing gym, right, every time I tell people that I have OCD and I'm a boxer, I always get this. I always get this. They're like, but boxing is like the most dirtiest, bloodiest sport out there. How do you handle it? I was like, well, see, I don't even look at it like that. I look at boxing as my, you know, my passion and my job and what I love to do. I don't think of it as bloody dirty sport. Yeah. And, yeah, of course, when I'm training, sometimes, like a lot when I take off my gloves, I'm like, here, coach, let me have them and I'll put them right in my bag. I don't want him to put him on the ring, you know, or if I'm sparring someone and they get up on the ring and put their gloves down on the ring to get up, I'd be like, oh, man, wipe your gloves off. Wipe your gloves off. But, you know, I won't go crazy like, oh, let me get the Clorox wipes and wipe them. I'm just like, wipe them off real quick because you're about to hit me in the face with those. So, yeah, I'll have like those little moments. But it's very, you know, it's not as I'll have that. And then I'm like, all right, you know, I'm ready. Turn on the bell. Like, I won't get stuck in the fact that, oh, my gosh, you know, this gloves, I'm dirty and it's going to hit my face. I won't get stuck in there. I'm not. I'm Able to move on faster when I'm in the gym again, because I'm there to work on my craft and get better and become, you know, the best boxer in the world. And, and that, and that's why boxing has helped me, you know, keep going forward and, and again, because my value, so when I tell, I sell, I tell people like, you really gotta think about your values hard and really what you want and really focus on that. When you really are struggling with your ocd, just remember your value and that will kind of help change your thought process a little bit. Yeah, it's not easy. It's not easy, but it will help.
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B
Yeah, I love the values based piece of it. And when you're talking about boxing and how you're in the ring and you're not going to let OCD take that over because that's just something so, so valuable to you. But OCD does like to attack the things that are important to you, so it'll hit the periphery. Right. Like you said. I mean, what a great example. I would have never thought of that. But like wipe your gloves off before you hit me in the face. Right. That's such a fascinating statement. Right. I mean, I would like to say, please don't hit me in the face would be what I would like to say to somebody. But, but, but no, just even, even in something where you have to be so on, OCD still finds a way in there going, oh, they touched something and that's going to hit you and might get you dirty. Let's just make sure. Yeah. So that it's so insidious, OCD in doing something like that. That's really.
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A
Yeah. Right.
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B
How did boxing start? How do you go from track to boxing?
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So funny story. So I actually went to, I went to Louisiana State University as a walk on, on the cross country and track team.
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B
Okay.
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And shortly into my freshman year, I got involved in a prank. It was no big deal. It was just my friend's roommate bet me 100 bucks I couldn't break down his door. He wasn't there at the time. These were in the athletic dorms. And when I, I didn't break it down totally, I just broke a frame, the piece of, piece of the door, a frame of the door in the lock. And then they told me to take his Xbox and hide it. I didn't know that he had just got his Xbox stolen. So that's why they were eager, told me to do this and they bet me 100 bucks to do it. So that's why I Did it right. I was a stupid freshman college student, so. But then when he returned, we played it off, and he ended up calling the police when we didn't know. So when they came, you know, I told him it was just a joke. But I ended up getting arrested for that because it was destruction of school property. So that prank got me kicked off the cross country and track team. And the coach was like, you know, I might let you on. Call me at the end of the year and I'll decide. But in that. In. During that time, I had met a professional boxer, and we became really good friends, and I was. I would take him to the gym and watch him train, because I. I've done. I. I'm. You know, I've done all sports, I would say, but boxing was the one thing I had never done. I never been into a boxing gym, never really watched a boxing match. So I was like, this is interesting. I want to get to, you know, get to know it. And since I wasn't running and I was always. And that was weird to me because I had always been training to do something. So then I was like, you know what? Let me try. I want to try this. So when I began boxing, the coach there, you know, I picked it up pretty well. And so he said. He. You know, he came up to me. This is actually the first practice I had with him. He came up to me and said, I see a lot of potential in you. Do you want to fight? I'll train you to fight. And I go, let's do it. And I'm glad I decided to do that, because at the end of the year, when I called the. His name is Coach Schaefer. He was the head track coach of lsu. He decided he was going to let me back on the team. So after that, then I fully dedicated all my time to boxing and wanted, you know, to go to Louisiana Golden Gloves. And then I ended up going to the national level. And then that's where I learned that they added female boxing to the Olympics. And that's when I was like, all right, now I'm gonna go to the Olympics. So it just progressed and progressed and progressed to the next level.
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B
That's amazing. And are you training now for the next Olympics or what's. What's happening?
- [32:46]
A
So that's why when I introduced myself, I said, you know, I'm a professional boxer now, because.
- [32:52]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [32:53]
A
At least in America. In America, once you turn professional, you can't compete in the Olympics. You know, back in the day where it used to be like that for all sports. And boxing was the last one to change. Then it was actually back in 2016, so they just changed it. But it's up to the country. So USA Boxing still is not on board with letting pros come back to the amateurs to compete in the Olympics. So I cannot go back and compete in the Olympics, unfortunately. But my next fight actually was just announced. Yeah. Last week. Is for a world. It's a world title fight. I'm fighting for the. Huh. I'm fighting for the dumb VC super flyweight world title belt. July 18th in California.
- [33:35]
B
Fantastic. Wow.
- [33:36]
A
So I just started training camp for that.
- [33:38]
B
Yeah, I bet. Yeah. What, what does, I mean, what does this elite athlete level training looks like? What's your hours of gym time and workouts and all sorts of things?
- [33:54]
A
Well, I'm in camp now, so today's Friday, so Fridays are my recovery and cardio day, so.
- [34:01]
B
Okay.
- [34:02]
A
A little more relaxed day. But my, but I train Monday, Wednesday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturdays in the boxing gym. And I'll spar three out of the three out of the three days out of those training days. And they're, you know, sometimes my coach will be like, we're going to do Monday, Tuesday, Saturday, or Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. So that changes. But I'm in the boxing gym those days. And then Monday and Wednesdays I do strength conditioning. Tuesdays and Thursdays I'm in the pool. This is all with my strength condition coach. And Saturday I'm on the track.
- [34:41]
B
Okay.
- [34:42]
A
So. And, and I always do my boxing training first and then, then I do strength conditioning. So it's, it's, you know, it's pretty much a full day of training with a little break of recovery in between my workouts.
- [34:55]
B
Wow. And how many hours on those training days is that?
- [34:59]
A
Well, I would say I spend about two hours, maybe two and a half in the boxing gym. And then my strength conditioning sessions can last about an hour, an hour and a half.
- [35:12]
B
Okay. And boy, you, you must like a day off. Do you just want to lay in bed?
- [35:26]
A
And that's when you were talking to me about how OCD creeps and, you know, like stops you from doing what you want to do in your life. I was like, yeah, it does. But also with my life, because I'm training so much, any days off I have. Yeah, I just want to rest.
- [35:44]
B
Yeah.
- [35:44]
A
And then catch up on. And that's where my OCD comes in. Then I catch up on the cleaning stuff that I feel like I couldn't get done during training week. But sure. But Most boxers, you can ask them their day off, all they want to do is do nothing and rest and lay around and recover.
- [36:01]
B
I want to ask you about that clean. And believe me, you could tell me to shut up. So that's totally fine. But because some people watching this may not understand the drive that OCD pushes people. What would be your fear if you couldn't clean things the way that OCD says? I mean, what, where does it take a worst case scenario for you that it tells you if you don't do these compulsions, terrible, awful, horrible things are going to happen?
- [36:32]
A
So with my ocd, it's not about, if I don't keep washing my hands, some bad event is going to happen. Something like, my mom's going to get a bad crash. I don't have those thoughts. Mine is more of a feeling. Mine is more of like this overall disgusting. It's just not right feeling. It, I can't shake that off. And so if I don't get something clean the right way, that's where I just keep thinking about it. Like, you didn't get it clean enough. You didn't get it clean enough. Like, so if, like I didn't get this hand clean enough, it's not clean enough. So I don't want to use it until I finish painting it. So it like inhibits me from moving on. Like, then I only have one hand to use for the rest of the day until I finish cleaning it properly. And like, say, say like, all right, it's not clean enough, but I gotta go. And I've had moments like that where, yeah, I have to go and I will just, and I will, I, I'll, I'll make it to where people won't notice it, but I'm not really using this hand until I get to where I need to be. And then I'll go back in the bathroom and finish the compulsion. So that's kind of how with, with my compulsions and the, the thought of the feeling is just not right. Drives me crazy. And, and it, it almost, you know, when people have those ruminating thoughts, it like gets their heart rate up and, and, and like distracts them. But. So that feeling, that not getting that just right feeling does the same thing for me when, when I, I can't get that just right feeling. It's like, yeah, my body tenses up and like, I'm, I'm just like stiff and my heart rate's going and that's all I can think about. And it's just such a uncomfortable feeling that I just want to get away. I just want to get rid of it. It's the anxiety. Right. I want to get rid of that uncomfortable anxiety feeling.
- [38:28]
B
Yeah.
- [38:29]
A
And so I. And. And I forgot to finish that question you asked me, like, what I. What we were doing in treatment. And so that was. For example, that's what we would do in treatment. We would do exposure therapy. Right. Exposure therapy, treatment, which, you know, obviously.
- [38:45]
B
So I've done it a little. Yeah.
- [38:47]
A
Just a little. Right. So that's mostly what we would do in inpatient, besides, you know, having, like, classes with the doctors to.
- [38:58]
B
Yeah.
- [38:59]
A
Learn tools, how to help, you know, when you get stuck in your seat. But it was those exposure therapy sessions about where the heart is. And. Yeah, mine would be. The. My therapists were like, all right, let's go get dirty. Let's go put our hands on the floor. Let's go touch trash. Let's go touch dirty tires. And then. And then I couldn't go clean right away. And not only could I not go clean right away, but she'd be like, get it everywhere. On your body, on your face, on your hair.
- [39:28]
B
Yep.
- [39:28]
A
And then I'd have to sit in that disgust. I was. I was going to. She was going to let me clean it, but for before, I couldn't go straight to the bathroom and wash my hands. I had to sit in that, discuss. Sorry.
- [39:39]
B
No worries.
- [39:42]
A
And then. Because she wanted. She. Because that's the whole point. Right. Is you want to just hold on to that anxiety and. And just feel it and learn to live with it.
- [39:53]
B
Yeah.
- [39:54]
A
Live with it. Yeah. And I was like, I remember when I. The first. For a while, I was like, it's so stupid because I'm. It's never going to stop. I'm always going to feel like this until I get it all, you know? Like, I was so. Like, I never. I didn't believe in it for a while until I got. It's like building a tolerance is how I look at it, until, you know, until I started building that tolerance. But then when I finally got to go wash instead of washing until I felt like it was right, she would give me, all right, you get three minutes, and you get this amount of soap.
- [40:24]
B
Yeah.
- [40:24]
A
And then when that three minutes is up, that's it. So that's what my treatment looks. Specifically, what mine looks like.
- [40:32]
B
Yeah. And that sometimes people will say, well, why can't I just do that by myself? But that's. Thank you.
- [40:43]
A
I've tried.
- [40:44]
B
I. Yeah. I mean, you. You've probably faced some really Tough, strong people in the ring, but OCD is probably your biggest opponent you've ever had.
- [40:57]
A
Oh, that's funny that you say that, because I tell people that all the time. Like, okay, speaking of exposure therapy, I'd be like, I would rather go 15 rounds with Muhammad Ali than have to do exposure therapy for, wow, yeah, 10 minutes. I tell people all the time and go, that's how hard it. It is. I'd rather get beat up by and knocked out my mom.
- [41:21]
B
Yeah, yeah, it is. It is a tough therapy. Right? But. But purposefully, because, like, in boxing, you. You could be told about how to box, but you have to actually do it and practice it, and you. And you have to be willing to get hit and hurt and, and be vulnerable, right? And. And OCD is going to do that. OCD is going to grab and punch and kick and bite and knees to the groin, whatever it is. And it doesn't play clean. It is. It is dirty, dirty, dirty. And. And you have to be like, okay, because in the end, and. And I know you know this, but. But it's. It's interesting to discuss in the end. This is not a logical problem. This is an emotional problem. You. You can have hundreds of people around you saying, ginny, this is not. This is not a problem. This is not dirty. That doesn't matter, right, Jenny? I mean, that doesn't change it, right?
- [42:26]
A
Yeah. You know how. You know when my friends that I met, when I would tell them about it, they go, well, then just stop, dude. Just stop.
- [42:34]
B
Yeah, well, stop watching your hands.
- [42:35]
A
I go, well, if it was that easy, then I want to have ocd. No, and then when they learn more about me and they would. And they saw more, but they're like, okay, I get it, I get it. But, yeah, I've gotten that response before about, just stop.
- [42:48]
B
Yeah, I wouldn't need to have a job if it worked that easy. I'd have one session with everybody and they'd be like, oh, I never thought to stop. Thank you so much. There we go. You're a magic man. What do you know? Well, you know, my. My hope for you is you. You win all the titles, you get the big purses, you get yourself back into erp and you. You face those things, right, With. With the heart that you use in. In the ring to. To do the same against ocd. Because OCD is just as formidable a foe as. As anybody you'll face in the ring,
- [43:30]
A
as you said, right? And hopefully I can look at my OCD just like I look at My opponent across the ring.
- [43:36]
B
Yeah, Right. But here's the thing that I like to say to people. You're going to beat somebody in the ring by fighting them, and you're going to beat OCD by just allowing it to be there. Because the more you try to fight ocd, the more compulsions you end up doing.
- [43:54]
A
Exactly. Yeah.
- [43:57]
B
And that's such a hard lesson for people, especially for people who are like, you fight and you fight and you fight, you know, and. And we have our. Our good old American ethic of if you just try harder, everything gets better. But if you try harder at doing what OCD wants you to do, you don't get better, you get. Right, you get worse. Things just feel worse and worse.
- [44:17]
A
And that's why ERP was hard for me. Right?
- [44:19]
B
Yeah.
- [44:20]
A
That's because I'm like, why am I. Why am I just sitting here doing this? Let me get it off. Like. Yeah, you put it in the. Zach, in. In perfect words, like, because I'm a fighter. Right. So I wanted to. I. That's why it took me a while to understand it, because I would fight it and fight and fight it, and then, you know, then it would get worse and worse. And to me, I didn't understand that or, you know, understand why I still, you know, I had so much trouble with it. But then that's what, you know, impatient. And my therapist and all that helped me really understand about it.
- [44:58]
B
There are young athletes and. And what a role model you are for young female athletes out there struggling with eating disorders, anxiety, depression. What's your message to them? What can they look up to from you? And. And. And how. How would you hope to inspire them?
- [45:17]
A
Well, you know, like I told you, I would always hide my ocd, always feel ashamed, always feel different. But I. You know, and that's why I wanted to become open about my OCD and really be vulnerable and talk about how it affected me, because I don't want, you know, I don't. We all are struggling with something. You know, I don't want people to feel alone, like, different. Like, this is. This is all. You know, I'm the only one that's dealing with this, and no one's going to understand it, but that's wrong. You know, that's why being part of Team usa, when I would tell them about my OCD and everybody struggled with something, you know, not necessarily ocd, but something. And that's what connected us was like we could share our struggles and understand it, and that's what brought us closer. And and it actually lifted, like, this heavy weight on me when I would, you know, explain my struggles and. And open up to people and help them understand and. And also help me understand their issues. So I always tell people, like, don't be afraid to ask for help or explain a heart, like, what you're going through, because that's, you know, that's why you have, you know, we're all here to help each other, you know, with our issues, whether. Even if they're different issues, but just to understand and just to listen, like, so, you know, speak up and. And don't, you know, don't be ashamed.
- [47:01]
B
That's awesome. Yeah, I agree. Don't be ashamed. There's. Because shame is just another thing that keeps you down and stops you from being able to face the things that you need to face.
- [47:15]
A
Exactly. Yes, exactly.
- [47:17]
B
And ocd, even though a lot of people think about it, makes you anxious. I. But it. It also creates shame and guilt and disgust. You. You've mentioned all of these different emotions that OCD has grabbed onto at different times in your life to motivate you to do compulsions. Right? Yeah.
- [47:38]
A
And it's funny. It's like when you think about it and you stress about it more, I feel like my OCD gets worse more.
- [47:44]
B
Absolutely, absolutely.
- [47:46]
A
But then when I talk about it and explain it and have people understand it, then I feel like I beat my ocd.
- [47:55]
B
You got this. I know you got it. Well, that's great, Jennifer. Thank you so much for being here today. Where can people find you? Do you have, like, some places people can follow you or anything? Where. Where should we go?
- [48:06]
A
So you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter. It's the same handle at Ginny Fuse USA. I'm also on Facebook. And, you know, you can YouTube my fights, but you. My. My next fight that I have in July, I will be posting the link up on my Twitter and Instagram. It's a pro box card and it's going to be like a YouTube channel kind of link. So, yeah, follow me on all those outlets so you can keep, you know, keep up with my career and, and, you know, follow me to see how my ocd, how much, you know, how I. How my OCD is doing throughout my years.
- [48:46]
B
That's awesome. And hopefully one day we'll get to cross paths in. In real life and. And say hi to each other. That would be awesome.
- [48:54]
A
Yeah, that would be great. Yeah.
- [48:56]
B
Thank you, Ginny. And thank all of you for watching another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. If you are looking for help for OCD treatment. Well, go no further than nocd.com. that's nocd.com we have therapists waiting to meet with you. They are licensed in your state. They take insurance, and we do work all over the world. So check us out nocd.com and remember, everyone, be better to yourself than your OCD would be to you. We'll see you again next time.