← Get to know OCD
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- [00:00]
A
I come from a very small town in central India, you know, where having a mental health condition like OCD could be a taboo that would bring down the societal standing of the family. I've been suffering from OCD for past 18 years or more. So I talked to my therapist and he sent me a link to the Stanford Research Lab for ocd. So I'm currently enrolled in one of the research studies. I think I'm in the right position to break the cycle. So I want to talk openly about it on the podcast today and I also want to announce the condition to many of my friends and family who are not aware of it yet. Anyone listening to my podcast, I would be happy if somebody listens to this and they feel seen and supported and they don't feel there is a stigma and, you know, we start talking more openly about such things.
- [00:57]
B
Hi everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the Chief Clinical Officer for NOCD. Today I'm joined by Radha Bagi and I am so happy to have you here today. You reached out to me because you saw one of my interviews with Dr. Carolyn Rodriguez, I believe it was, and you were interested in chatting about yourself and your ocd. And I am always intrigued to learn about someone new. And purposely, I have not even spoken to you too much before this because I wanted to get it all on camera here. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you here and then we'll get going into some questions.
- [01:40]
A
Sure. Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Magrath. So my name is Radha Bhagay and I live in San Francisco Bay Area. I've been living here for past 30 years and I'm a software quality assurance engineer by profession. I've been suffering from OCD for past 18 years or more. So few months ago I got affected by workforce reduction at my tech company and that gave me time and perspective to reflect deeply on my lived experience with ocd. So I talked to my therapist about it, like how to get more involved in research studies that were going on. And he sent me a link to the Stanford Research Lab for OCD Research. So I'm currently enrolled in one of the research studies and I'm really enjoying it. I'm looking forward to finding a solution. And there I found a link to Dr. Carolyn Rodriguez's OCD lab page and I saw she was on a podcast called get to Know OCD by an organization called nocd.
- [02:43]
B
I've heard of it, yes. I've heard of it.
- [02:46]
A
Yeah. Somehow I did not have any idea what NOCD was about. And, you know, if I had searched even a little bit about OCD online, I would have easily found OCD and the ERP therapy it offers so beautifully. But, no, I always avoid reading about, you know, OCD or any other mental health disorder because avoidance is my strongest suit, as I say. So, yeah, I really need to look a little bit into my notes.
- [03:15]
B
Awesome. Well, first of all, we're thrilled to have you here. Thank you for reaching out, and I'd just like to learn a little bit about you and how OCD has been a part of your life. So when did you first recognize or start to have some symptoms of what would eventually be OCD in your life?
- [03:37]
A
Yes. So listening to Dr. Rodriguez's interview gave me a lot of optimism about the new treatments and research that was going on, so I really felt motivated to talk about my experience. So I come from a very small town in central India, you know, where having a mental health condition like OCD could be a taboo that would bring down the societal standing of the family. So I have come here 30 years ago, and I have been living here for past so many years. And the Indian communities over here, they tend to be more progressive, but still, these old expectations, they still linger around in our mind. So I think I'm in the right position to break the cycle. So I want to talk openly about it on the podcast today, and I also want to announce the condition to many of my friends and family who are not aware of it yet.
- [04:28]
B
Wow. So I'm a part of this coming out experience in a way for you here. Awesome. Well, I will do my best to assist you in all of that, and thank you for your. Your bravery in. In this experience. I really appreciate it very much.
- [04:45]
A
Thank you, Doctor.
- [04:46]
B
I do want to get into the cultural aspects today. I definitely think that that's something that isn't talked about enough, so I would really like to understand that. But I'm wondering first if I could understand from you just how did you start to experience symptoms of anxiety or OCD in your life, and when did you get to a point of really recognizing it maybe as being obsessive compulsive disorder?
- [05:12]
A
Yeah. So actually, OCD symptoms, they started relatively late for me when I was around 35 or 36 years of age. Okay. But I always. I mean, I was a super overthinker since early age, and I. I always had depressive tendencies and sadness lingered in my mind always, but it was never acknowledged. Or it was never talked about. I mean, so I don't know. I mean, we didn't really treat it as such in the family. It was always there in the back of my mind. And when I had my second baby in 2005, my daughter, my son was already 8 years old at that time. So when I went back to work, I found it really, really difficult to go back to work. I found, you know, I felt very sad and very anxious to leave the baby behind at home. And working from home wasn't a thing at that time at all. It was very hard to work from home. So I found it very hard and I was very anxious about my kids. So. And my daughter started going to the daycare and she was getting ear infections frequently and other illnesses. And my son was eight years older and he had his own share of issues going on. At that same time, my husband's cousin, who was a very dear friend, she passed away due to bladder cancer and everything hit me tremendously. I found it really hard to move on from that point and I could not handle the growing stress of work and family issues. And around the age of 35, 36, I had my first experience with OCD. I mean, I was already down with depression, anxiety, but we were not really treating it. It was just part of life and we didn't know what was going on. So I had like, I had. I was obsessed around the safety of kids and I was obsessed with the thought that maybe, you know, I may harm someone inadvertently and that would give me bad wives, negative vibes and that would, I have this perfect family. I have to be super vigilant to take care of everything. I have to keep everything perfect. That was my obsession. And that's how it started with kids safety. So there were multiple obsessions that just multiplied within short period of time. I think it was around maybe 2007 or 8. And I can give you some examples of my obsessions at that time. Like what my experience was, the first experience with ocd. I didn't know what was going on and it was terrible. I thought I was losing it. So I would give my daughter, like three year old daughter multiple showers because I used to think that I didn't use the cleaner's towel or something like that. Then I used to keep cleaning the vegetables and pulses that we use in Indian cooking multiple times just to make sure everything was super clean and I didn't cause anybody harm. So then at work I used to be very worried about the printer that was there. Like I used to think maybe I'll print something, some private documents by mistake, you know, and somebody will. I don't know. I used to be obsessed with the thoughts of locking my computer, not printing anything there. I used to keep checking, rechecking it on the way home, especially. So. So it used to take me a long time to come out of office, sit in the car, and then, you know, to get home. So. Because of all these checking and rechecking. So. So. And I was also very afraid of contaminating anything at work. So suppose I had a slightest doubt that I touched something in the break room without cleaning my hands, I would throw away the big stacks of cups over there in the garbage just so that nobody touches it and I don't cause harm to anybody kind of things, you know, so it was terrible. But the major obsession was around driving. So my workplace was just 15 minutes away from my home. But on the way back, in the evening, it used to take me more than one hour to reach home. And I knew my kids were waiting for me. They were hungry. They. They wanted to hug me and tell me about their day. But I used to be stuck many times just near the traffic light near my house, just a minute away. But I used to be taking U turns there incessantly. I mean, too many U turns, and it used to take me one hour or more many times. So that was my first experience with ocd.
- [09:37]
B
What were you worried about with the light and the U turns? Did you?
- [09:41]
A
No, just that everything has to be perfect. I don't know what it was. And it was just after a while, it was more of a habit than consciously checking anything.
- [09:52]
B
So if it didn't feel just right, it was just wrong then for you.
- [09:55]
A
Yeah. I have to feel good about everything.
- [09:58]
B
Okay.
- [09:59]
A
Yeah. All right.
- [10:01]
B
And I appreciate you saying that, even in light of your children in the car and your family, because I always say OCD does not have your or your family's best interest at heart. It only cares about itself. So the children are hungry. They maybe want to get home. They're like, mom, we're only a block away, and you're turning around and going back again. Because OCD saying I'm more important than anyone or anything else.
- [10:24]
A
Yeah. And the main thing was I was concerned about the kids all the time, but this is how I was doing it. Yeah, totally. I mean, the quality of life was super, super low, of course.
- [10:38]
B
Yeah.
- [10:38]
A
Yeah.
- [10:38]
B
And isn't that the interesting lie of ocd? If you do what I tell you, your life will be great. I've never met Anyone who that's actually happened to that life got better by ocd.
- [10:48]
A
Totally. Yeah. It's a strange game. Yeah.
- [10:54]
B
So you realize it's ocd. What was your treatment journey into OCD then? How did. How did this go from doing all of these things to it's time to get some help about it?
- [11:08]
A
To be honest, I really didn't know anything about ocd. I didn't know what OCD was. I mean, depression, anxiety, maybe. You know, we didn't talk much about it in my family while growing up. My dad was a doctor, My sister is a doctor here in the us But I really feel bad that I still wasn't very aware of these things. I was totally unaware of ocd. You know, I had heard about the term vaguely in some sitcoms, especially where, you know, lighthearted jokes are made about it.
- [11:39]
B
So of course. Yeah, we're very familiar with those. Yeah, yeah.
- [11:43]
A
And then in movies like as Good As It Gets, I think, or what About Bob, I think those movies talk about ocd, but it didn't register in my mind what OCD was. And I didn't know what was going on. I thought I was just losing it. I was just going crazy with all the stress around me. So it was very hard to figure out what exactly was going on. So my sister, who is a doctor in Phoenix, she really wanted me to see a psychologist at that time because I had a nervous breakdown of some sort because of, you know, at that time I had too much work stress and family issues going on, you know, with kids getting sick over and over again. So.
- [12:21]
B
Sure.
- [12:21]
A
And I was going crazy with anxiety. So she said, you have to see a psychologist. But I was very afraid of talking to anybody other than my sister or my husband about my issues because I was very afraid of getting judged as a mom of young kids and also at work because my credibility was at stake. So I didn't want to talk to anybody, but she really insisted. So I saw a. Met a psychologist in Phoenix a long time ago, almost like 18 years ago, and she diagnosed me with OCD, but that's it. I didn't know the extent of it or how to go about it, how to deal with it. I was really, really. I was extremely sad with the diagnosis because I didn't know exactly what was going on.
- [13:01]
B
Sure.
- [13:03]
A
Yeah. And my husband was totally in denial because we had not seen anybody dealing with any such things. So it was hard to believe there. There was something like that that existed.
- [13:13]
B
Yeah. Is the cultural piece is interesting here, Right. Because I'm Wondering, you have a father who's a medical doctor. Correct. And a sister. Do you think culturally it would have been more acceptable if you had a medical condition than a psychological condition?
- [13:36]
A
Definitely. Absolutely. Because that's what I always felt like when you have a physical issue, physical illness, then that's an issue, real issue. Right. That people can acknowledge, people can talk about. So unfortunately, my parents are no more, but they were pretty progressive for their age. You know, like in the small town that we grew up, my dad and mom, they always gave back to the community they were very socially aware of. But things like these, I don't think they acknowledge. I mean, they were not aware of it. So they would not. I mean, if you had everything, right, if you had a job, if you have a family, then what's there to worry about? Right? I mean, it's. The thinking was like that the mental. The mindset is such as that, oh, there shouldn't be any other issue, you know, so they wouldn't acknowledge it culturally. I mean, they would think that, oh, I should be able to handle it in a regular way, but it was very difficult for me. And then we want to keep up appearances with friends and family as well. So, you know, we want to look good, we don't want to show we are weak or any less. So. So it's very hard to open up about it.
- [14:45]
B
Looking back at that and how you feel about coming out with your mental health today to friends and family who are going to see this, what has changed in your own opinion about the idea of mental health and mental health in the Indian community?
- [15:02]
A
So I think with recently with social media, I would say that there is lot of awareness about mental health recently and people are very aware and people are open about it. But right now, when I started, you know, like 20 years ago, when I started having these issues, I felt really stigmatized. I felt like, my God, I lost confidence in many areas of my life because I used to think I'm like a very independent, professional woman. And suddenly I really became dependent on my family for simple things like going to groceries, going to doctor's office for, you know, I needed a ride and I have exceptional family support. I really am grateful for that. But. But not everybody would have that right, so. And then the quality of life is compromised due to these issues because people don't understand these issues. So there should be awareness that needs to be raised. For sure.
- [16:01]
B
In your life with anxiety and eventually ocd, different stressors come in your life here or there. You've probably had kind of an ebb and flow of experiences. What. What is you look back now are some of the links that you can see. Like when. Ooh, when I got some stressors in my life. Here. Here's where anxiety just really interfered versus what was it like, maybe, or was there ever a point where it felt calmer for you? Maybe there wasn't. I don't know. But how. How did anxiety. Maybe this is a more succinct way of asking it. How did anxiety try to come into your life and sometimes offer the lie that it does that says, hey, if you do these safety behaviors, you'll be okay? And instead, it actually made things worse and complicated things.
- [16:54]
A
Yeah. So actually, I mean, in a way, you are asking me if some of the symptoms would come and go, like, ebb and flow.
- [17:00]
B
They can. I didn't know if they did for you or not. Yeah, they did.
- [17:04]
A
Definitely did. And. Yeah. And then when I was actually Dr. Magrath, when I was listening to Dr. Rodriguez's interview, I had a lot of things I could that resonated with me because. Yeah, I'll talk more about it as we go. So when my OCD was at peak, so my workplace was nearby, but it was an old facility, so the carpet was a little old. It was very dark. So I used to feel very anxious walking on it while going home. You know, if I had stepped on something by mistake or something like that, I used to be always worried about it. I used to check that carpet a lot, you know, while going home. Then even when I used to go for a walk with my co workers after lunch, I would be very afraid to step on the cracks on the sidewalks. You know, if by mistake, I stepped on something, you know, very typical behavior that I wasn't aware of that time. So I would check and recheck, and I would look back to see whether I stepped on something by mistake. So these things. When we moved to a newer facility, the carpet thing went out. I mean, it just went away. That carpet fear went away. And even walking over the sidewalks is not an issue anymore. You never know with ocd.
- [18:19]
B
You know, it could come back.
- [18:20]
A
Right. I don't want to say anything. Yeah. But there was a major turning point in 2015 when I talked to my PCP and asked for, you know, medication. Okay. And. Yeah, so that's when most. Like, when my. Otherwise, my OCD was just out of control. And I never knew what would come up, what new obsession I would pick up and what the. How bad the compulsions could be. But in 2015, I started the medication at the lowest dose, but, but it controlled, it took the edge off. Sure. But still many of the obsessions still remain.
- [18:58]
B
Was there a point where treatment came into your life beyond medication that you started to do therapy?
- [19:03]
A
Oh, yeah, sure, yeah, it did actually. Yeah. I have read somewhere that it's very hard to get a diagnosis for ocd, but for me getting the diagnosis wasn't difficult, but finding the right therapist and finding the right medication was really difficult, so, and I was so afraid of talking about my condition because I didn't know what was going on. So I didn't really look for a therapist actively. My husband would look for a therapist. We didn't talk to our primary care physician as well. We didn't know the difference between a psychiatrist and psychologist. We were, so yeah, we thought everything was the same. We also met some psychologist initially who was aware of the anxiety disorders, but they were not familiar with OCD at all.
- [19:49]
B
Happens a lot.
- [19:50]
A
Around the age of 40, I met the therapist who was well versed with OCD. Yeah. So it was like way deep down. I mean, I had suffered a lot till then. Sure, yeah, yeah. And just the, you know, just the feeling of knowing that somebody knows about OCD and acknowledges those symptoms is, was also a big relief for me.
- [20:13]
B
So you talked about getting an accurate diagnosis, finding a therapist was difficult. What in your own experience would you say were those difficulties? Like I, I, I find it interesting. You said, what's the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist? That especially coming from a family, it sounds like where the medical side is. So, so you would automatically. I would let me make an assumption here, but correct me if I'm wrong, you would automatically, I think, go to a psychiatrist because you have the medical concepts in your family, correct?
- [20:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, but no, yeah, no, but I wasn't aware of it. We never talked about psychology. Maybe because it wasn't something, you know, Psychological disorders were never discussed. Physical disorders, yeah, all the time. I mean, yeah. But not the psych. I did not really know that the psychologist cannot prescribe you medication and things like that. And, and the first thing was there was such a stigma that I carried within myself. It wasn't even other people. It was just, I felt so defeated and so, so sad about the whole thing that I didn't want to acknowledge that I had some issue. So I didn't really go about openly, you know, looking for a psychologist.
- [21:28]
B
Once you find one and you find evidence based treatment, what did it do to your life?
- [21:35]
A
Yeah. So once I accepted it, that, okay, I Have. This is the issue because finding out my personality from depression and ocd, you know, everything messing up my. And separating it out from my own personality, that made a big difference. I think it improved the quality of our family life a lot better. It did. And I could have some clarity with the therapy. I had some clarity with life, but still until I found the medication. I started the medication a few years after that still. The symptoms were too much, you know, too many to confuse me. And my whole psyche was engulfed in fear, anxiety and everything. It was hard for me to think clearly, to listen to my heart as such.
- [22:26]
B
How. How was that journey for you then? The you start the medication, you're getting the therapy, you probably still hold on to a little bit of the stigma. How did things change for you and what was it that kind of led you from maybe some of the shame originally of this to now you're on a podcast and you're talking about you didn't have to be here today. I just want to say that, right. You. You chose this. So I, I really want to understand that evolution, right?
- [23:01]
A
Yeah. So as a. Talked about it earlier, I was part of a WFR workforce reduction earlier six months ago. So I got a lot of time to think about and reflect on my experience and you know, how tough life was with OCD and you know, all the struggle, the tug of war between work pressures, family pressures and how it was very difficult because there are so many women doing it anyways. It's. It wasn't the only. I wasn't the only person doing this for the first time, right. Like family and work and everything. But it was especially difficult for me because of my mental health condition and because I did not accept it well and because my family wasn't aware of it. So we could not accept, learn and move on. Right. So we were stuck in a rut many times I felt like. And it just stunted my growth as a person and also professionally. Definitely it hit me, I think I could not grow after a certain point. So. So it was. I think it definitely, you know, stunted me as a person and as a professional. And I lost lot of precious moments in my life. I was thinking about all that. I did not enjoy my kids childhood. You know, I was so anxious, I was so sad. I was so tired physically and mentally most of the times when kids were young. You know, that time had to be beautiful. It was tremendously beautiful. When I look back and I'm blessed with two beautiful kids. I mean they are much older, they're 28 and 20 now. But I did not enjoy their childhood at all. And that's a big, big regret for me. So anyone listening to my podcast, I would be happy if somebody listens to this and they feel seen and supported and they don't feel there's a stigma and we start talking more openly about such things.
- [24:56]
B
Well, I agree. That's number one, so thank you for that. And you've. You've talked already about why it can be hard to get an accurate diagnosis, to even start this process in the first place. I'm wondering if you could touch on how things really changed for you once you had an accurate diagnosis, and then over the last six months now, where you've had a chance to really do this reflection and the research and the work that you're doing, what you look forward to for the future in helping others make sure they get accurate diagnoses.
- [25:37]
A
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So with ocd, as I said, I was brand new to ocd, the term as well, when I was diagnosed. So that's something that was. I think that caused more trauma than anything. So I think people should be more aware of mental health conditions and postpartum depression and things like that. So when I reflect about my journey and when I see what Dr. Rodriguez's lab is doing, you know, so much research is going on, and when I ran into no CD specifically, I felt like I found my tribe. Everybody knows ocd. Everybody talks about ocd. I felt so, so good, because OCD still is very unique. I think it's not as commonly found, maybe, as depression or anxiety. And I was very glad to find the organization. So. So what I feel is that I never got the correct treatment. I mean, I just went ahead with the minimum, basic minimum. And I want to now try because the quality of life is very important for me, of course, the rest of my life. And I really want to be open to the research. So I'm currently enrolled in a research program at Stanford based on the medication that I'm taking. So I'm really looking forward to finding a solution, some kind of, you know, I. I'm really hoping to find a solution with that and also with ERP and nocd. I met my therapist, but I didn't continue. I haven't started with her because of the research going on.
- [27:09]
B
Oh, sure.
- [27:09]
A
Because of the research study that I'm part of. But I'm really looking Forward to the ERP. ERP, because, you know, Dr. Magrath, I live in a country where you can't have a life without driving. And my Driving is affected tremendously. It brings down the quality of life and for me and for my family as well. So I really want to focus on that going forward.
- [27:32]
B
Yes, it does make getting around much easier. Right. When you don't have to go back around the block all the time and do the U turns and all of those things and everything.
- [27:42]
A
It's, it's terribly tiring. Tiring and exhausting.
- [27:46]
B
Yeah. I'm always thrilled to hear people talk about the use of good evidence based treatments. Right. Being on the, the correct medications at the right dosages and, and thank you for being a part of the research for that too. So that, that is something we learn to help people in future generations. So I can't thank you enough for putting yourself out there to not only get better yourself, but to really selflessly assist others in making sure that they get better too, so that they don't have to live in, you know, some of the really difficult conditions you did that OCD and anxiety put you in. Right. So just, just a huge thanks to you for that. And I'm also really thrilled that you're excited about erp right, that when you can really get that gold standard of treatment that it would be something that you're really looking forward to. And that's what we really want to see. Right. I understand that people can be fearful of taking meds. I understand that people can be afraid of facing their fears and doing the things that are uncomfortable and really getting response prevention going because it isn't just being exposed to things. You're exposed to things every day. If just being exposed to them was curative, you don't need therapy. Right. Because you're off always being exposed. It's, it's really learning response prevention. And so I'm excited for you, for your future also, when you really start to do that good response prevention and you get back in the world, you get back to driving. And I think the biggest lesson, and I wonder what your thoughts about this is, we're not going to try to convince you that it's safe to drive. We're going to convince you that you can handle driving.
- [29:26]
A
Yeah, that's right. Yep, I know. Yeah, it's, it's not curable. Right. I mean, OCD is not like.
- [29:33]
B
Yeah, we don't talk about it.
- [29:34]
A
You just need to learn how to manage. And yeah, I mean, that's a good thing and a bad thing because the thing that it's not curable is heartbreaking but still there. But with no cd, I see a lot of optimism for Myself.
- [29:50]
B
Yeah. How has doing this, especially this last six months, you know, changed your relationship maybe with your. With your family? Right. You. You talked about you and your. Your husband maybe even originally being like, I don't even believe this is a. This doesn't exist. What. What has been the changes that you've seen, not just in your own life, but as it starts to creep into the family experience too.
- [30:17]
A
Yes. So it's not only the past six months. For 18 years, I've been, you know, suffering from OCD. And until I found the right medication and everything, it was really a struggle. So as I said, my husband was really in denial. He didn't know. I mean, we both felt there is nothing like this exists. And I'll get better in few days, you know, I'll feel better once kids grow up a little bit or something like that. Yeah. But it kept going on and on and it ebbs and flows. So sometimes you feel better suddenly after you come back from a vac in India, you suddenly feel very energetic and all the symptoms seem to go away. So I've seen things like that. But my son grew up looking at me, you know, he has seen both versions of me, so it was hard for him to, you know, accept me like that. I mean, he always felt, oh, why can't you drive? You know, why can't you go there instead of taking help from me? You know? Because he started driving when he was just, I think, 16 or something. And then I always used to rely on him for some things or ask me, asked him for a ride. And he always wanted me, he helped me, but he always wanted me because he had seen me doing those things. But my daughter, she has seen me only with this condition, so. So she. She is very supportive as well, and she doesn't expect any. I mean, she knows what I like to do. I just like to do grocery shopping. Look at the fresh flowers, fruits. You know, these are my. Not many people like to do grocery shopping, but that's my hobby. And, you know, all these things started fading away from my life because I stopped driving and nobody had time for me. Right. To take me to these places. So my family did the best they could. But. So she has been very supportive and the whole family is exceptional now. Once they accepted it and we decided to move on with the flow, you know, that's awesome.
- [32:15]
B
I'm thrilled that they are supportive of you.
- [32:17]
A
Yeah.
- [32:18]
B
And. And that change too, because I'm sure they want you living your best life just like you want to live your best life.
- [32:26]
A
Yeah.
- [32:27]
B
How do you feel it will be now that people are going to see this and start to see you talking about ocd? I. I make a prediction. Tell me what you think of my prediction. There will be a few people who are like, we're so thrilled you said this. There will be a few people who will maybe be uncomfortable themselves because they may be like, I don't know if I should talk to her about this or not. And then there will be maybe one or two people be like, you just need to stop it and everything will be fine and okay and you don't need medication or therapy that I see that happen a lot in people. And I'm wondering if you've thought about that and how you'll react to the various ways people will react to this and to you.
- [33:09]
A
You know, I haven't talked about this issue with many. Most of my friends don't know about OCD as such, but they know that I don't really drive that much. I mean, people can sense that, right? People can see that. So for many of like ladies get togethers, you know, when there's a girls night or something, I used to avoid, I used to say no most of the times because I can't drive at night, go alone. So I used to say no. But some of my friends noticed that and they thought that maybe I was afraid of driving alone. So they were so sweet that they started inviting my husband to hang out with their husband so that I had a ride, you know, both ways and things like that. So I'm really touched by the kindness of many of my friends who did not really poke around or ask me, you know, what's going on? Why aren't you driving? They just offered rides without asking. Anything that was really, I'm blessed to have friends. But then there are some friends who would talk about, oh, I don't know how some people don't drive. I can't live without, you know, like, comments like that that would make you feel really bad. But yeah, people do make such comments. And yeah. So after the podcast, after they get to know, I'm sure the friends who always supported me would be supportive of me and they would be happy that I am talking about my shows openly. So, yeah, and there would be some people who will say that you don't need medication, you don't need this. Just go do it. You know, because I've gotten that even before, you know, coming on the podcast from some of friends and family. So. Yeah, but I think we need to raise awareness so that people know More about these illnesses. And so that, you know, no jokes are made about OCD specifically, I always feel bad about, because people, you know, some of my friends and even family members, they say, oh, yeah, I have ocd. I keep cleaning, you know, I clean my kitchen a lot. But they just don't know what OCD is about. They just don't know. So I really want people to know how, you know, serious the illness is.
- [35:13]
B
You didn't have to come here today and talk about this, right? You. You could have kept it to yourself, to your family. There's. There's a bravery to come on a show like this, to reveal this to people. What do you hope you get out of it? And what do you hope others get out of you talking about it?
- [35:39]
A
So what I'm hoping really is that, that, I mean, I don't want OCD to be trivialized. I want it to be taken seriously and want people to know more about it. And I want it. Want it to become, you know, I want people to talk more openly about mental health issues. Like, when we meet socially, we talk about all sorts of things with friends, like high blood pressure, A1C diabetes, but we rarely talk about mental health conditions. Right. So that causes lack of awareness. And people like me who suffer from such conditions, we feel very fearful of getting judged, you know, by friends, family and at work, you know, because the credibility is at stake. I don't want to be any less. Any weak as compared to anybody else. So as we start talking more about it, there will be less stigma associated with it, and I think the problem becomes smaller and people who don't suffer from it will. Can empathize more with people who suffer. So there will be more, you know, acceptance and, you know, mainstream talk about ocd, and it will be easier to talk about it in professional setup, specifically because I remember I was. I could never talk about my OCD when I was even at the peak of it with my manager because I wasn't sure whether he was aware of such things and because unless you're physically sick, how do you ask for time off? Right? I mean, yeah, I mean, there are other ways, but then I always felt like, oh, I'll get judged. I may. He may think I'm not worthy of a promotion or this or that. Right. So. So yeah, because I just want people to know that, you know, ocd, it's not. It's a lifelong condition. And with correct therapy and medication, we need. We learn how to handle the symptoms. And people with OCD can, you know, carry out the responsibilities perfectly as their normal counterparts. It's just that, yeah, we need to be more aware of it and accepting of it.
- [37:44]
B
That's great. I wish the whole world had that attitude. I really do.
- [37:50]
A
Yeah. I think we should work towards it. And no city is already doing it, I feel.
- [37:57]
B
Well, it's been a big goal of ours.
- [37:59]
A
Right.
- [37:59]
B
And that's the whole reason for the podcast, is to make sure that there is education out there and we have a mix of people. Right. Sometimes somebody famous will come on and talk about what it's like with ocd, and sometimes people who have had it hidden for much of their life will come out and talk about ocd. Right. And sometimes people new to treatment will come on. And so I. I always have a goal of this, is that anybody watching this hopefully can identify with the person in some way and really see, like, oh, they're in some ways they're like me or something. They just said is the same thought or image or urge that I've had as well. I think it's also important, and I'm happy to have you, too. I believe you're our first person of Indian descent who has been here on the podcast. And I think we have to not just talk about ocd, but various cultural aspects and influences, because it isn't just the way OCD manifests, it's also the way an entire culture might view, like you said, mental health. You know, is it something that's talked about or is it something that's stigmatized or something of that nature? And there's, I think, probably the Indian community here in the United States, and then there's even the Indian community in India. Right. And. And what kind of differences there may even be between those two, where here in the US I'm going to assume, again, please correct me, that mental health is probably talked about a lot more here in the US Than maybe it is in India, but I don't know. So if you could educate us on that, that'd be great.
- [39:39]
A
Sure. Yeah. So that's what my understanding is as well. Okay. You know, the Indian communities in US are more exposed to all this information and. But I don't have that much, you know, knowledge about what's going on in India currently, because I don't have any siblings who are in India, so that I know, you know, what my counterparts are doing there. So. But with social media, I'm sure things have changed as compared to 30 years ago. So, for example, I always say to my husband that if 30 years ago, you know, his family if his family knew I had some mental health condition, I don't think that they would have, you know, approved of me.
- [40:20]
B
Really. Okay. Yeah.
- [40:21]
A
I mean, it would have been his loss, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, it was such a big deal. I mean, even now. I mean, even now. I don't know. But I'm very open to my kids about it and.
- [40:35]
B
Yeah.
- [40:36]
A
Yeah. So hopefully things have changed and people are more accepting and open about it, and they know how. How to deal with such things, and these are not, like, terrible things as such. And we need to talk more about it and make it mainstream.
- [40:51]
B
And your children still speak to you and they still love you and everything. Right. You haven't brought shame on the family for generations or something like that.
- [41:00]
A
That's right. Because love is strong. Love is a strong emotion.
- [41:04]
B
Hooray. Hooray. Yes. Yeah. But. But I. I do see that where, you know what, shame is such a big thing. It can be in cultures, it can be in religion. It can be. And it can be an ocd, too, because OCD will even use shame as a reason to keep people doing compulsions. It's not just anxiety or discomfort. It's guilt and shame and disgust and these other things. I'm wondering if that also played some roles for you.
- [41:31]
A
I was always ashamed of talking about it.
- [41:34]
B
There we go.
- [41:34]
A
I mean, I was afraid of talking that. Oh. You know, because. Because I am so educated. I am so this. I'm so that. Right. I don't want to be any less than anybody else. And I think. I mean, such things really make you, you know, feel the reality. And it's better to accept it and grow with it than to just ignore it, because it's not going to go anywhere. And talking about it is a step towards healing, I feel.
- [42:02]
B
Yeah. And. And there it is. Right. I. I wouldn't be ashamed to go to a friend and say I have arthritis, but I would feel shame to go to a friend and say that I'm anxious. Right.
- [42:12]
A
Definitely. Exactly. That's how I always tell my husband that. We talk about so many things so easily. Right. Like somebody has a high A1C number, high blood pressure. Yeah. People get a lot of sympathy for that. Not mental health conditions.
- [42:28]
B
Don't talk about that, though. No.
- [42:30]
A
Oh, no, no. Yeah. I mean, you have everything. You have everything, like, you know, to be happy. Why are you so sad?
- [42:36]
B
Right. Almost the notion that as long as you have all the things you need in life, why would you have a mental health issue? Right. And. And that is where we have to keep correcting people that just because things are going well in your life doesn't mean you're immune to mental health issues.
- [42:53]
A
That's right. It doesn't discriminate.
- [42:56]
B
Right? It does not discriminate. You could be the highest SES versus the lowest ses. You have equal opportunity to have ocd.
- [43:04]
A
I know, I know. Yeah. So it's a learning experience. Yeah, there's a lot of learning. I felt when I reflected on my journey, there was a lot of learning, accepting, and growth with ocd.
- [43:19]
B
Before we go, there's people watching this. They may be on the fence about treatment or what they should do next. What's the advice that you want to give to people listening today as a takeaway?
- [43:30]
A
The most important piece of advice I would give is do not hide or ignore your mental health issues. Talking about is. Talking about it is the first step towards healing. So, yeah, I want people to talk more about this and, you know, get the best treatment that there is available. Whatever is available for OCD specifically. There is so much available right now, and I. With no CD and with the research lab and everything, I'm. I'm feeling very optimized. Sorry.
- [44:01]
B
Optimistic about it and optimized, actually. That's great. Yeah. You could be as optimized as you want to be. That's fine.
- [44:08]
A
Version will be optimized. Yeah. So, yeah, go ahead with it. You know, carve your own path. Don't go with the flow just because you have to carve your own path, even with mental health disorders.
- [44:22]
B
Radha, thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate it.
- [44:25]
A
Sure, Absolutely. It's my pleasure. Thank you, Dr. Magrath, for having me.
- [44:29]
B
Of course. And thank all of you for watching the get to Know OCD podcast. If you like it, subscribe to our NOCD YouTube channel where you can get this and all sorts of other episodes and even watch my Wednesday night webinars that we record and put out there too. And if you're looking for help for OCD or related conditions, check us out@nocd.com that's nocd.com we also even do something called a NOCD411 session. So if you want to just talk to one of our specialists about what OCD is, with it out being a therapy session, but just to get some information, we even have that availability too. We look forward to seeing you in the future. And remember, be better to yourself than your OCD ever would be. We'll talk to you later.