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Today, I'm really excited to pass the mic to Barbara and Alexi. They are two NOCD therapists who are doing incredible work. Every day they're going to talk to you about what drew them to OCD treatment, what surprised them when they started, and what it actually looks like to work in a remote environment. If you're a therapist who's ever been curious about specializing in OCD and maybe you've heard about exposure and response prevention therapy, as we call ERP but you're not quite sure what it looks like in practice, this conversation is going to be for you, so let's start there. Hey, Barbara, Alexi. I'd love to hear a little bit about your backgrounds and what led you to specialize in ocd. And I'll let you two take it away.
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A
Hi, everybody. It's nice to get to know you. And I'm here with Alexi. I just want to do a quick intro for myself. So my name is Barbara. I have worked in various backgrounds in mental health. I've worked with sex offenders. I've worked with substance abuse. I've worked with people with depression, anxiety, couples. I mean, just such a wide range. And I landed here at no C. D. And I have to say, like, this is definitely the population that I love working with. So OCD is now my specialty, and I really, really enjoy that. So I wanted to kind of talk a little bit about things today, and I want Alexi to go ahead and introduce herself.
- [01:28]
C
Yeah. Hi, everyone, and thanks, Barbara. I'm Alexi. I also have quite an array of a background as well. Not copy and paste like what Barbara mentioned, but I worked in community mental health, higher level of care, inpatient, residential, outpatient, all the above. And how I got here, honestly, was one out of curiosity. My other company or where I was working at was on a strike. And it was just one of those things where it's like such a natural transition where, like, I myself kind of felt in this, like, stuck place where I'm like, hmm, I could stay here or I could better grow myself as a clinician and, you know, try something new. And the moment that I, you know, got that call and learned more about no CD and who they treat and it. It really gravit, like, it definitely gravitated towards my strengths because with my professional background, I did a lot of, like, somewhat ERP work too. So this as well, it was kind of was like a seamless transition.
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A
That's great. Thanks, Alexi. I mean, Alexi and I have been working together for our career at nocd, it's been really enjoyable to have somebody to connect with. Not over our shared backgrounds, but over our work here now at nocd. And we've been talking a lot about things recently. One of those things was actually learning about how rewarding OCD work and us wanting to share that with everyone. So I thought, Alexi, why don't you share a little bit about your thoughts on that?
- [03:00]
C
Yeah, no, definitely. I will add for the audience you and I started at the same time. I think it's really cool how much you've connected. So. So just kind of little. Little side note here before I dive into the OCD work being so rewarding. I think just having this connection, like, for therapists as well. Right. Like, even though we are in separate states right now, we're still so, like, so close and connected. And so being able to do this is. It's just a cool thing and I guess reminder that remote work doesn't mean you're, like, alone as part of being in this company. Favorite. I almost feel like we're even more so because we're able to have this connection. But, yeah, OCU work is so rewarding. I think the biggest one that comes to my mind is just helping members get back on their feet and doing life as they want it. And I don't know if you want to dive more into that, but, I mean, to me, just as a blanket statement, when a member comes to me and says, I went to work today, I was like, whoa, you told me, like, what? Really? And just giving them a moment to, like, relish in that. That rewarding experience. Because it's not only, like, you know, awesome to see them grow and, you know, be able to do what they want to do, but also reinforce the fact, like, they're doing it as well. Because I know sometimes with anxiety, one might feel like, oh, I was so nervous at work, though, and I barely made it, but I'm like, but you did it. That's awesome.
- [04:30]
A
Absolutely. I completely agree. And have the same experiences with my members. It's so amazing just to be able to see. I mean, everybody has their own milestones, right? We work with people of all ages. So some of those milestones for kids, like, when they can go to school again or when they make a new friend or when they're, you know, able to talk to their parents more. Those kind of, like, small moments, even with the kids, are huge for me as the clinician. And same thing with, like, you know, you have some teenager members and some members in college, and then Members that are adults are in really stressful careers, and we get to see all these little wins for the members that look different for everybody. Even this morning, I was working with somebody, and she got to the point where she doesn't even feel like the OCD is impacting her in an everyday basis anymore, which it was pretty severely impacting her relationships, it was impacting her function at work, it was impacting her function at home. And she was able to share with me, like, that's not a big deal. Actually, I feel great. It's like, I've been great for a couple weeks now, and it's getting to see those little things, I think, make it really rewarding as a clinician, because I walk out of my office and into my home, and I'm like, that felt good. Like, I helped somebody today.
- [05:48]
C
No, that's awesome. I'm actually curious, right? Knowing. Knowing your background and the members we. We work with, how. How are they different from, you know, members you've worked with before and, like, other. Other places?
- [06:01]
A
Yeah. I would say probably the biggest difference is how motivated the members are when they come to see us, because we're a specialty place and a specialty field. By the time they get to us, they're normally like, okay, I'll do whatever it takes, and I'll try whatever it takes to do what I need to do to get my functioning back. And so to be able to have members work just as hard or harder than us as the clinicians, I think is just a phenomenal way to work with people. And that's oftentimes how you see such progress so quickly, and I find that to be really rewarding. Part of it, too, is, like, a lot of my previous work field, you see progress, but you see it two, three years down the road, or they come back to you years later and they're like, yeah, that made a difference. But in this field, right here at nocd, you're not waiting that long. You're waiting a couple weeks, a couple months to see these huge changes and shifts.
- [06:59]
C
Yeah, that's awesome. I totally agree. I. I think that. I know this is such an unpopular opinion, but, like, I think going to therapy myself, we've done a lot of talk therapy, and I think just as my own personal experience, I. I thrive in, like, exposures. Right. What you fear most. Well, let's. Let's dive into it. And I think the fact that this is especially care, and members, like you said, like, they want to get better. Right. They find, like, I'm so sick of not Being able to do what I want to do. I'm so afraid of my relationships. I'm so.
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Right.
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C
Like, the fear is. Has grown to a point where it's, you know, this is almost like their last straw. And so there is a lot of that energy behind of like, I want to get better. So I totally agree, like, with that motivated piece. And I think it works well knowing, like, I. I'm here for it too. Right. Like, I'm just as motivated to help them because they show up and we feed off of that energy. I mean, there's so many times where, you know, a member, you can see them, like, wanting to crack a smile because they know how. And they, they say it's silly, but I'm like, I don't think it's silly. I think this is really important. And tackling something that sounds silly, but it is so meaningful. And so it's just cool to, to see that. That process. And you're. And you're right too, with how quickly you see it come to fruition versus what you might see in other modalities or, you know, months, maybe a year. Then you're like, even if that. But I think the fact that there is that, that desire, that motivation, and it's cool you see that higher turnover of, you know, getting better sooner and faster.
- [08:42]
A
I agree. And when I think of like doing ERP here, we have a lot of people that come to us that have either already been diagnosed or need to be diagnosed. So it's like that first couple sessions of getting to know somebody and being able to provide a framework and an answer for them, I think makes a huge difference. And then I also think about, like, how we do a lot of O C, D treatment and I love specializing in that, but I'm also specializing in erp, which is a great thing that helps for generalized anxiety and it helps with specific phobias. And I personally also really enjoy working with those members. Like working on these specific phobias that get them from one place to the next in their life is such a huge deal for me. I really enjoy that.
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C
Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't know if you, if you knew this before, no cd, but I had no idea what a metaphobia was.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And I will tell you, there was a period where I had maybe like six or seven. I was listening to throw up sounds all day for one day. But. But I think, right. Just applying ERP to these specific phobias to actually, I think kind of taps into the creativity part of like, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna hear some, some different fears where it's not like your everyday therapy session where someone says, like, oh, I'm afraid of this, or like, okay, tell me more about that.
- [10:05]
A
Right? It's more like, all right, well, let's
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C
get into the, you know, meat and potatoes of. Okay, let's dive into that fear itself. And, and so, you know, part, part of what I think of trying to recreate these different fears, I actually have a funny story where maybe it was a teen or like, young, younger kiddo. Metaphobia was the main, main issue, and parents were so understanding that we had a whole like, theatrical scene. Mom pretended to be sick, but of course we didn't tell member.
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A
Right.
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Member had to sit behind the door and mom was making like, throw up sounds and being sick and. And you know, here I am watching, right? Watching Member encouraging member like, you got this right. Try not to avoid or run away. I know. And you know, it also challenges my own fears because, I mean, who, who's comfortable with listening to that? But I think, right. Just kind of mimicking that same strength also kind of helps play into like, no, I'm doing. I'm here doing it with you. You.
- [11:12]
A
Absolutely. I mean, I love that point you made of how it challenges our own fears. Because I've noticed, like, I never ask a member to do something I'm not willing to do. And because it's so active in a type of therapy, we're doing things together all the time. And I find that to be like, a really beneficial way to understand our members and have sympathy and kind of live out what we're explaining to them. And going back to, like, the emetophobia. Yes. The amount of times we have created mixes of oatmeal and like, warm water and like, had to spit up into the toilet is. It is just hilarious how this is what our type of treatment looks like. And I think even members will often laugh at like, is this really what I need to do? But they do it. And then they're like, should have done that earlier. Like, that was actually not as bad as I thought it was going to be. And they're able to like, handle the distress after going through different things in erp. So I, I love that the creativity is there for it and that it can work for so many different things. Going back to like, OCD stuff, how do you think it works best in OCD or like, what's some types of creative exposures you've come up with for OCD specifically?
- [12:26]
C
Ooh, that's a good Question. Um. Oh, no. Gotta think off the top of my head. It's. I guess I don't know if you have. Have one in mind if you beat me to it, but I'm trying to think. Okay. I guess thinking about like, right. Working. Working across the different OCD subtypes depending on what it is. I think some of the most. Yeah, I guess interesting ones I can think of that at least come to mind right now are like contamination, O.C. and I. And I'm recalling a specific member where the only subtype is just contamination. And I think with that one it's hard. And I think again, why creativity is comes into play, it's because one could simply just not touch anything, right? And hold a bottle of hand sanitizer. But then I reflect on the question of like, well, is that how you want to live life for the rest of your life? Like, I imagine that's pretty, you know, like minimizing or. Or like, seems pretty bleak. Like you. It's hard to like connect, right? Like even. It's even to a point where, because, you know, one handle then evolves into I don't want to touch my husband or I don't want to touch, you know, even a friend because I. I think of them as like dirty or uncont. Contaminated. And so through this process, I think the creativity starts with like, how. How can we start small, right? Because ERP is all about gradual exposure and not just throwing them in the deep end. And so definitely, yeah, challenge is like, okay, well if everything's a 10, well, can we try like a 1 or a 2? Nothing's a 1 or a 2, right? And I think having that patience to sit with, exploring the many different things and even part of just that ERP fear response process, it is my maybe sometimes guessing for them, like, okay, well let's. I were in your shoes and you know, everything felt like a 10. How about, you know, your pillow? They're like, oh, I've never even thought about a pillow. I sleep on it. It's so normal. And I'm like, ah, is that A1? And they're like, oh, I never thought of it as like a one. That. That's interesting. Like perfect, right? And I think that gives us a good anchor point then to start, you know, looking at other things that we can start to build that gradual hierarchy and then, you know, slowly build up to it. And so with. With the creativity, I've actually had a member. We got. Finally got to a place where she was touching cat food and I was like, oh, I'm proud of you. That's awesome. And she didn't even want, like, she did. I said we didn't have to. Right. Like, with her fingers, I was like, you know, you can just naturally serve, you know, with a spoon how one would normally do it. And I think throughout this process, you know, she was so brave in saying, like, you know what? I really want to challenge myself, and I'm going to have the cat eat the cat food off my.
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Off my hand. I was like, that's cool.
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C
You know, if that's. If that's part of what's going to help push through this, you know, hump of the fears, of your contamination fears, by all means, go for it. And so it's cool to see it kind of blossom too, in. In their world, because we might even suggest something and then they take another step further. But I've been going on for a while. Any. What are some ideas that come to mind or some members that.
- [15:57]
A
Yeah, I mean, honestly, with each member, it's completely different. It's as creative as each member wants to go. And I think that's the really fun part about it, is we come up with these suggestions and it's all collaborative, right? So they agree to everything or they come up with their own ideas. I think once we get them going, they're able to be like, you know what? That's something I've always wanted to try but have never been able to. And so it could look different for anything. And I. I find it really fun and exciting to get to come up with different fun stuff. I mean, a couple really, like, kind of creative stuff I've done is when some members have, like, pocd, we watch, like, dance moves. Okay. Because, you know, those girls, those kids, they're dancing around, it's. Yeah, it's a TV show, but for people with pocd, that can be really triggering. And so for some members, that's like a five. For some it's like a ten. And that's something we work up to another, like, fun idea I've done with people. I actually have a member who has a lot of anxiety around being just right and perfect. And we've done a Where's Waldo search in session, which she thought at first, like, oh, that's not going to be triggering. And then when we got into it, immediately bumped up to a seven. And so getting to come up with these fun, different things is really exciting, I think, for me as a clinician. And I think it also works towards the member's interests. So even for another member I have that has some just right plus social anxiety. We have her walk kind of silly across the street. I mean, like big arms, big steps, you know, just something that to her feels a little odd. And at first that was something that was like really anxiety provoking. Now it's just kind of silly. It's a way for her to laugh at the OCD and laugh at that anxiety that pops up. So for each and every member, I think it can be a little bit different and at the same time it can be very practical. So some of my members have trouble writing things down or getting in the car or touching their cat. And like, we can do those practical exposures as well. So it really works for each member a little bit differently. But my favorite thing about building out the hierarchy is we build it out all the way from like 1 to 10. And I always have my members do something at a level 10, like put it on the hierarchy. Because by the time we get to that level 10, they're like, it's not a 10 anymore. It's a seven, it's a six, it's a five. And to see their own face kind of shift when they realize this thing that was a 10 when they started is no longer as anxiety provoking for them. Seeing that relief, it just, it brings so much joy to my personal, like life as a clinician to see like how they can just feel more accomplished. So I'd say, like, that's the creativity that I really enjoy is because we don't have to do everything on the hierarchy. We can come up with those ideas and then revisit them later and decide what we want to change or add or adjust.
- [18:58]
C
No, totally. I know you think you make such a great point and actually like, like reminded me of like different things too, especially when it comes to exposures. Because I think something that surprises me right throughout this process of doing exposures is like, what I don't. What I think it. I would assume, like not be as triggering actually is like pretty stressful for them with the whole game thing. I had someone play Tetris. You know how like the goal is to make it perfectly all fit. And so with that just right theme, I'm like, I want you to just press the enter button to make it drop. But you're not allowed to change the shapes. And we're going to test them with the fact that you're probably going to
- [19:40]
A
lose many, many times.
- [19:42]
C
But I think, right, that's um. To me, of course, I'm like, well, that's not so bad. But for them, they're like, no, I, I could tell, like my brain really wanted to move it over, but I know I wasn't allowed to. And it, it definitely challenged. Right. Challenged them. But then I can also say that on the flip side as well, where like something that I might think might be triggering is kind of like what you said, you're like, oh, yeah, that really wasn't as bad.
- [20:07]
A
But here I am like, uh huh.
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C
Yeah, sure, that was, that was great. But I, that was scary for me. And I have another kiddo where we have like religious fears, but like, religious, like what is it? Like omen it? Like, like we're where it's like scary. Yeah. And I, I would admit, like, with the creativity part, I'm like, I'm also afraid of these things.
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A
Yep. Every time I think of Patrick and his little example of like the pen, and he's like, if that was true, the pen would still be floating here.
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C
And so it's, it says, I think part of it.
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Right.
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C
That creative is like the admittance of my, of where I stand as well. And it's not to say that we're taking, taking it away from the members, but I think adding to the normalcy of like, you're not alone in this. Right. And I'm doing this with you. And so it was, it was, I think, thinking of that, that one. Kiddo, after we watch these like really scary clips, it's fun to say, like, okay, how you doing? We're like, okay. We survived though. Right.
- [21:19]
A
You know, that leads me to kind of ask a question. I think I get a lot, whenever I tell people what I do for work and they always ask, how does that work virtually? Like, how does this whole thing, is it better virtually? Is it not? Like, how does that even conceptually work? What are your thoughts on that?
- [21:38]
C
Yeah, I, I mean, I feel like I'm a little bit biased because I started off virtually since my grad program was during COVID so all therapy actually had to be done virtually. But I, I did exposure work when I first started as a grad student and I noticed how much more effective it was than when I shipped it over in person. Not only we have them in their own environment. Right. Part of the fears that one might avoid or our members are avoiding are in the environment in which. Okay, that's our playroom. That's where we get to actually, you know, they're in the place that they can work on these things. If we have them come into a therapy office, we can't recreate that. Right. Like we can totally make some simulation of it. Like, okay, imagine my door is your door. It's not. Right. Like in the reality of it is, it's. It's not. And I think the fact that we can also have them take us with them to different places also not only expands on the possibility of doing something outside of a therapy office, make it very targeted work. So I have some members where we do driving exposures. Right. Like put me on Bluetooth.
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A
Right.
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C
Camera's off. But right. I'm. I'm there with them and there might be moments where, you know, there's some hesitancy, but. Right. Being there as part of that encouragement helps them get through it. And you know, at the end we're able to kind of collaborate. I think another one that has been helpful too. I've had, I had a member do an interoceptive exposure where this was for the nausea and I was like, all right, I want you to chug a bunch of water or and jump on the trampoline. And they're like, oh, yep, this is effective. But I know, right. If we were to do this in another platform, I don't know if we would have that a possibility. But what do you think?
- [23:30]
A
I completely agree. I love the fact that I can go with members places and that it's also using their real world environment. So when I think of like some contamination exposures, my members are often having that in their own home. So it's in regards to like what they would consider outside clothes being on their bed. Well, I can't do that in an office. But when we have this virtual office, we're able to do that. And I also like the fact that they can set me up and I can observe their behavior. So I find that works a lot for members. And then when I'm working with families, because sometimes we work with kiddos. So when I'm working with the families, I'm actually able to observe the natural behavior of the kiddo instead of trying to take them out of that environment and observe them in a completely different one. So I find it's clinically also beneficial to see how that works as a whole. You kind of get a little deep dive in there. And then we treat other things as well. So like, social anxiety with ERP is super awesome virtually because then we're able to like go to Barnes and Noble and ask a question at the store and have to like compliment somebody and like, I'm still there with the member while they're practicing these things. And then we're able to like debrief after and how could we change it or make it more effective? And so those kind of like real world things are really important. And then the example I gave earlier with the member who walks across the street, well, that's something we do in session. It's not just something she does on her own for homework, but like we actually go across the street together and then she's able to tell me how that went and we can talk about it afterwards. So that real world environment I find to be really effective as well as connecting. Right. They get to see my office, they get to see a little bit of me, I get to see a little bit of them. And I think that's more comfortable for them sometimes. And also there's less barrier for them to show up to session because we already know they're putting in a lot of work, doing erp. It's not super comfortable up front. It is very uncomfortable type of treatment when they first come. So the fact that the barrier is just to log on to the zoom, log on to our meeting, it makes it a little bit easier for those members who are already struggling. So I find that to be really helpful too.
- [25:46]
C
No, that's awesome. No, well said, I guess. I guess thinking of, you know, kind of wrapping things up, who. Who do you think would like thrive in this environment or like OCD as a specialty care?
- [26:01]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. When I think of somebody who thrives in this environment, because we've been working with a lot of clinicians here, it has to be somebody who is a self starter, somebody who is willing to work hard. Kind of like I mentioned earlier, you got to work hard, but your members are also working hard. So having that match, I think is really important because we have to be creative, we have to reach out. We have to kind of be that strong point for the members as they're doing these hard things and kind of remembering to help reflect to them on the different response preventions and keep on track. And I think another piece of that is we don't reassure our clients because that's a compulsion. So being able to be a clinician who can sit with members in discomfort without having to fix it, I think is a really important key point of clinicians. What are your thoughts on that?
- [26:55]
C
Yeah, no, I, I definitely agree. Everything, everything you're sharing and I guess just to add to it, I will say a big learning curve for me, right, with, with ocd, especially Karen, for where I came from, or as a previous backgrounds is that reassurance piece. And it's, it's leaning into the fact like, you're right, like we can, we can totally say like you're fine, but what is that really doing for them? And I, I like that, you know, just even as my own growth getting to a point where, you know, if a member is about to ask me for reassurance, I just stare at them and they're like, oh yeah, that's right. You can't tell me like, bingo. And I don't know that it's interesting because like, I think being comfortable, challenging reassurance almost kind of goes back to the reward feeling. Reward that reward feeling because it's also in real time to members learning like, oh yeah, because I know someone that I trust, that I'm working with, that we've built this great rapport will still not even give me what I'm, what OCD is looking for. And I think that that practice in itself, right, those little things just shows like, Yep, that's right. And that's part of, that's part of the learning curve for them as well. So yeah, I definitely think that's a key part of, you know, who's going to thrive in OC specialty care. And then I think also the last part of like the, the outcomes I know sometimes coming in, right. With private practice, maybe other talk therapies, the, the assessments are like pretty minimal. You know, like there's not as much as we might give to our members here. But I, I tell members though. And it's just, I think part of my practice, like this is how we measure progress. This is the, these are so key and important and so maybe know therapists who really are on top of that will, you know, do really well here because I think not only shows progress for members, but how, how we're doing or looking, reflecting on our work. Because I think part of.
- [28:55]
A
Right.
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C
There's that self reflection piece of okay, we're, we're not getting those scores lower. Right. What can we do differently? And I think seeing that in a more kind of proactive way rather than like a mark on like, oh, I'm a bad therapist, can also be kind of another layer too of like who might thrive here.
- [29:14]
A
But I think that's a great point. Yeah, I think having confidence as a therapist is really important here because we are big on metrics. And what I always tell my members when I'm going through their outcomes is this is telling me how I'm doing as your therapist. Like, I want to know what Do I need to adjust in treatment to better help you? So I try to, you know, frame it for them as it's not a look on you necessarily, it's a, it's a look on how can I inform my treatment. And when we look at our personal metrics when we work here in ocd, it's all based for clinical outcomes, right? So it's all based for better member outcomes. So what I really enjoy is it's not about us necessarily, it's about how well we can help members, which is ultimately a goal, I think of any therapist is wanting to help people. So the fact that that's based on wanting to help people and ERP is so structured in a way that we know how to help people with this. That's what I really enjoy metric wise. And I also think like good clinicians here are going to be people who are flexible with scheduling, willing to kind of do what it takes to help the member get better. Going back to that, like P sub I work really hard and I work as hard as my members work.
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C
Right.
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A
So sometimes that's not. Members don't always work that hard in previous things, but here they do work really hard. So we do have full schedules often where we're, we're working long hours or we're wanting to do these things. But ultimately it feels great and it's beneficial because it is helping the members. So ultimately I think that's kind of the point there for me is somebody who wants to help people and is willing to do the hard work to do so is going to thrive here and kind of get that satisfaction feeling that I get and I really enjoy. And I think you've told me before that's the same way that you feel.
- [31:06]
C
Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I know this could totally, you know, kind of dive into a whole nother episode in itself. And you know, all the points that we kind of talk, we could talk about, but I think kind of just like wrapping up and any advice. Right. I would give to, you know, onboarding therapists or therapists who would like to work at nocd. Like just kind of what we've been talking about today, it is just so rewarding. Like I, I don't think I've ever been in a, in a company where one, I get to work with an awesome person, you know, you, Barbara and everyone else on this team. Again, I know it's remote but like we have the Slack channel. I could literally message anyone on any, you know, one of those and someone gets back to me. And so I Think just that, like quick time feedback rather than like walking down the hall and seeing like, oh, is someone available? And like all the doors are closed. Like I would say I felt more isolated in that environment than where I am right now. And so I think if you're curious about work environment, this, it's such a wonderful work environment. There's people always there to help everyone. And I think it's because we are also motivated. Right. Like, not only are we motivated to help members, I think when other therapists get stuck, it's knowing that we're all there to help, you know, provide suggestions and different resources. And so know that there's such a huge community feel, I think part of just member success and it being rewarding. Yeah. If, if you're someone that likes to work hard and wants to see that and will even go above and beyond for your members. Like I, I worked until 9 o' clock sometimes because that's what worked best for their schedule. And the fact that that only was lasted a month, I was like, that's worth it. Right. Like, I knew this isn't a forever thing.
- [32:52]
A
Right.
- [32:52]
C
I think just to meet with where my member, where it was at, like that's what helped them. And now they're treatment conquerors. They're doing everything they want, ever wanted to do, and they haven't had done that in such a long time that I think it's worth it. And so I think, see, seeing that, yes. Right. The hours are long. Yes. Schedules might be a little messed up and you might miss a few dinners with your significant other.
- [33:16]
A
Right.
- [33:16]
C
But it's, it's all part of, you know, the bigger picture that we're, we're here to help members. And so I, I prioritize that.
- [33:24]
A
I completely agree. I'm right there with you. That flexibility to be able to put members first is so important. And I think as a clinician, that's where I get that joy from, is these people are getting better. I'm doing something. Yeah. I'm sacrificing a couple hours that maybe I didn't necessarily want to work, but it's ultimately better at the end of the day. And when you get that connection with members, it makes up all the rest of that. And so anyone who like, loves that feel, likes to be rewarded for probably the hard work they're already putting in would just love to work here as well as, like, like you said about connection. Right. I think when we enjoy working here, the creativity comes out. I see in the slack messages people are like, what about this type of exposure. What about this one? And you see a bunch of people just jump in with ideas so you're not alone. You get that connection piece. And getting other perspectives here from other clinicians is another piece of, like, support. And for me, just specializing in one thing allows me to really put all my effort and get really good at something that I can help multiple people with. And I think that focus and drive is what we're looking for in other clinicians to come here in ocd.
- [34:37]
C
Absolutely. I guess my. My last thought, kind of thinking about, you know, not only working at ocd, but just like, ERP in itself, a big takeaway with each day. It does. It doesn't feel the same. Even though we are doing erp, it's so structured. Like, I think talking back to, like, other modalities, sometimes it does feel like we're going in circles. Right. Or like, oh, we're. We're continuously stuck on this thing.
- [35:03]
A
Right.
- [35:03]
C
How can I try to pull out different things from my bag? Oh, that's not working.
- [35:08]
A
That's not working.
- [35:08]
C
And the fact that it's like, nope, here's the drawing board. Here's our fears and response list. This is what we're going to do. Ah, we're going to. We're seeing some push and pull. How can you maybe provide some act in there, Maybe some li.
- [35:21]
A
Provide.
- [35:21]
C
But at the end of the day, you know, ERP is erp. And I. I like the fact too, where it's like, we're not trying to reinvent things, right? We. We have everything all laid out. That is our. Our skeleton of what we're working off. And so I think just having a very structured modality also kind of helps with the direction that you're going, or it helps provide a direction in. In the treatment process.
- [35:44]
A
I agree. Yeah, it does help build confidence. And I think the fact that we can always learn new things is great, but putting it all into one structured focus allows the members to kind of keep progressing in one direction, and that's to get better. But that was great. Thank you, Alexi, for all the feedback. I really enjoyed talking with you today.
- [36:03]
C
No, thank you. It was fun getting to chat more about, you know, what's. What's so awesome working here. And yeah, here we are.
- [36:12]
A
Definitely.
- [36:13]
B
As we wrap up today's conversation, I want to come back to something that really stood out across everything that they talked about. This work is challenging, but it's also incredibly meaningful. You're not just having conversations session after session. You're helping people face the things that they've been avoiding for years, sometimes even decades. And when we really help people to start that shift in their life, the impact is real and you can actually see it. If you're a therapist who's listening to this and enjoys problem solving, values creativity in the clinical work that you do and really wants to see measurable progress with members you're treating well, NOCD is a really good fit for you. So Barbara and Alexi, thank you both for sharing your experiences and giving such an honest look at what it's like to work here at nocd. And to everyone who's been here today, thanks for listening. For those of you who are interested in working with us, we hope to hear from you. And if you have ocd, well, this is a place where you can come to to be treated. We, we look forward to helping you. So if you need help with OCD or related conditions, check us out@nocd.com that's nocd.com and remember, you can live the life that you want to live and not the life that OCD wants you to live. Thanks.