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Hi everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, Chief Clinical Officer for NOCD. If you like the podcast, subscribe to our NOCD YouTube channel. And if you want help with OCD or related conditions like body focused, repetitive behaviors or tics or hoarding, we do work with BDD and anxiety disorders, mood conditions, trauma, depression. Check us out@nocd.com that's n o c d dot com. Today I am joined by one of our amazing therapists, Cody Fournier. Hi Cody, how are you today?
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Hi Dr. McGrath. I'm doing well, thank you for having me. How are you doing?
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B
I'm doing great. Thanks for being here. Always happy to chat with one of our therapists and talk about the work you do here at nocd. But also you come in here with some lived experience on some things too. And I think that it's really cool to have therapists who work here who also have OCD who can really bring something that I can't bring into the session. Right. I don't have ocd. Although my favorite compliment ever was I can't believe you don't have OCD because you sure think like you have ocd. So I thought that was pretty darn cool. But, but I love that you're open with people about it and honest about it and willing to share about it too. So can you just tell us a little bit about you? You know, where, where do you come from and how'd you get here?
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Basically, yeah. So thank you for having me again. My name is Cody Fournier. I actually I grew up about an hour from Boston, Massachusetts in a small town. So I grew up there really kind of surrounded by a lot of the city. I grew up on the side. There's a lot of mental health diagnoses, a lot of stuff there that was kind of, I was exposed to at a young age. But with that being said, that kind of shaped a lot of my career direction. But I've been in the mental health field for about 14 years, so I have a lot of experience treating co occurring disorders, trauma with children, adolescents and then a lot of like medical, social work. So that history, I'd done that prior to treating OCD, but I've been in the field for about 14 years and I, I now obviously specialize in OCD. I love being able to kind of spread OCD awareness and treat individuals the same way I wanted to be treated because I also received ERP treatment from my ocd. So yeah, so I am really Happy to be here, to be able to kind of spread that awareness of ocd.
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B
That's awesome. Thank you. And you've been in the military also, which is a topic we haven't really had that much discussion about in terms of the types of jobs people have. We've, we've met with comedians and actors and teachers and, you know, just a myriad of, of different things. But we haven't had much talk about OCD and the military. And I think that it is a really important topic to discuss.
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Yeah, I don't think that's by coincidence. I think when it comes to the military, it's not something to. Mental health and military don't really go hand in hand in the sense of when I was in the military, I was in the Army Reserves for eight years. And what was extremely difficult about that is because if I told anyone about my ocd, there was some level of anxiety or fear that I was going to get discharged. So a lot of people, I would assume even now that are in the military are afraid to speak up because of the ramifications of either getting discharged, getting stigmatized, and potentially losing a career. That if you hear about people getting discharged from the military, that's kind of something that sticks with you if it's a dishonorable. So I think it's a, it's not a coincidence that people in the military don't speak up about ocd. And that was kind of my past where when it was brutal in the military, especially with a lot of the harm OCD I was experiencing and some of the taboo thoughts because I felt like if I went to go and talk to someone about this, I was going to get discharged and I was going to ruin my life. So it was very isolating and very scary to even mention that because I think there is a strict rule regarding having certain mental health diagnoses in the military and being potentially discharged from that. So it was kind of nerve wracking to even tell anyone I had OCD at that time. Yeah.
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B
When did you decide to become more open about it?
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I decided it was actually after the military experience. I didn't say anything when I was in the military for the fear that I would get discharged. So it was actually scary because when I, I was also not receiving the right help when I was in the military. I was on medication during that time, but I was going through different CBT therapists that were just actually making it worse while I was in the military. So it, it was actually many years after the military that actually came out and talked about it for that. The fear of, of getting discharged because the military is known especially being a male, known to be strong, courageous, not have a mental health diagnosis. And if I were to put that out there, I would probably be getting a call saying, oh, pack your bags, you're good. Like you're, we don't need you. We need someone that's stronger. Which is interesting because I was actually pretty, my perfectionism loved the military just because I sure in boot camp and ait, I stood out amongst the, the top of the, the soldiers I was with because of, that's just how I was. So like I wanted to be first in my class and so I did everything as if I was a top military personnel. But there was that OCD that was there, that was kind of still hidden. And I didn't, I didn't bring it up just because if I did, could have got discharged.
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So, and, and some people will hear that and they'll think, see, isn't it good to have ocd? Look what it did for him. It got him to be like first in his class and everything. But there's also plenty of people without OCD that get to be first in their class. And I'm assuming you being toward the top and ocd, OCD wasn't helpful in that experience by any.
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No. And, and it's very easy to, to look back and I don't do this, but it's very easy to look back and to, to feel guilty and shame in the sense of like woulda, coulda, shoulda. If I didn't have ocd, could I have gone even further in that sense? So it definitely had some good moments but overall it, it definitely was more harmful than good, especially when it came to operating weapons and engaging in certain, like, we would have to do like different simulated tasks and missions and stuff like that. And it was not, not fun having to do things repetitively in your brain to make sure you didn't mess up or you know, handling certain rifles and stuff like experiencing extreme fear that I might lose control and shoot myself. That is extremely nerve wracking and can pull someone out of actually being present in the military mission. But yeah, definitely was not fun in that time, but.
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So you're saying it's good to be present when handling a weapon is what you're telling?
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I would say, I would say so. I would say so. I would also say too that I'm still here. So I, I didn't, I didn't act on them. Doesn't mean I, I shoot weapons now, it doesn't mean I would never lose control and do something, but I. I took the courage to. To not listen to my OCD and to continue to value based behaviors and to not let that voice of panic or OC try to get me to, you know, avoid these things, because that was extremely urging to want to do, but kept going. So.
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B
So you grew up outside of Boston, and from what we've chatted a little bit, not the easiest childhood, obviously for you, you know, and then you go, and there's these things going on. Probably not a household that was wise on the mental health side of things. And I'll let you tell this story. I'm just going to synopsis, but then ocd. I'm just interested in how you go from that to now you're in a career where you focus on this. Right. I mean, it's such a turnaround to me. Really.
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It. Yeah. A lot of people I grew up with, um, they. I had two sides of friends. I have friends that are really successful, and then I have other sides of friends that are living in tents or jail or dead. So, like, there's a part with where I grew up, I didn't have the. It wasn't the hardest and certain. Like, I. I grew up in the lower middle class, but growing up I had two alcoholic parents. So they were loving. But. And now as I get older, I think, think my late mom who passed away, I think she had untreated OCD and the alcohol was a compulsion. So growing up with that, it was. There was a lot of trauma. I was diagnosed with chronic ptsd, a lot of different things, but that also didn't stop me. And I don't know if it was the perfectionism in me that just wanted to keep doing better, wanted to keep going, but there was a part of me that just wanted to keep going despite the adversity I was going with. And quite frankly, I didn't know that I wanted to treat ocd. I wanted to actually be an audiologist. Like I wanted to work with for what? Actually, I wanted to initially be a nurse. And then I went to the military and I kind of signed up for the program too late. And then I wanted to be an audiologist, but then my OC doubted myself, saying, no, you can't do this. You're not smart enough. You should just go do something else. And then I went to the substance use field and it kind of led me to. To what I'm doing. But ultimately, reason why I'm treating OCD now is because of the therapist at NOCD that I worked with that helped me with my OCD recovery was like, I think you'd be pretty good at this OCD thing. I'm like, let's give it a shot. Let's give it a shot. And so I, I, in A, never if you were to ask me 10 years ago or 20 years ago, a, I'd be like, I don't know if I would even be alive. B, I don't know if I would be treating O ocv and C, like, I, I don't think I would have the success I'm doing now. But that's what all the OCD kind of thinks would happen. And I kept pushing. I did value based behaviors and I'm here, so that's awesome.
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B
Thank you. So Cody, what were some of your first signs of OCD and how did it get to a point where it got diagnosed?
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So when I was 15 to 20, kind of go back to the childhood, my mom abruptly passed away from alcoholism. So she had complications. She ended up having a seizure and passed away. So reason why I'm saying that is I want to say a couple days before that happened, I had kind of like a thought of like, what if she passes away? And I'm like, and if you were looking at the circumstances, circumstances that it was kind of inevitable or it was not looking good. So when that happened, she passed away. My brain started with the magical thinking, like, oh my God, I can control these things. My thoughts can, like, really cause people to pass away. So that kind of led into some of the magical thinking with like, I was, I played three different sports in high school. So that led to the, the classic rituals of, ooh, I have to wear this or I'm going to play bad or I'm going to. I need to make so many layups when I play basketball or my team's going to lose or my family's going to die. That kind of started initially and then towards the end of high school, it started to pick up with perfectionism of I got really obsessed with vocab words. So, like, I was known. People would buy me dictionaries for as a Christmas present because I would look at, read the dictionary and I would try to memorize every word. And if I, I mean, yeah, every definition. If I didn't know that word, then I would constantly obsess, obsess, obsess, until I knew that word and definition perfectly. So, yes, you people like, oh, there was one clinician that actually kind of insulted me, was like, you Must have a really good vocabulary. When I was in an inpatient facility, I'm like, yes, but like, at my own detriment, like, I was reading this dictionary for like four hours a day, and, like, I was not retaining anything. And if I did, then I would just continue to obsess about it. So that kind of went into my high school, into a little bit of college. Military. I went to the military right out of high school. And once I completed military, I went into college about like six months a year after I completed boot camp and ait. It was until that moment. So I always say, like, my OCD has, has like two levels. The initial error was like, perfectionism and magical thinking. A little bit of just right with contamination. And then there was a moment where I tried synthetic tobacco. So one of my friends was like, hey, this is like a synthetic tobacco. You should just try. It's like, it's basically like smoking like a cigar or pipe, but it's free. You get it at the gas station. It was like a, called spice. So I, I'm like, okay, that's fine. Yeah. So I, I had to. Exactly, exactly. Not good. And the more I look at it, them. I just had a really bad panic attack. But the reason why I had a really bad panic attack is when I smoked it, I, I. There was an intrusive thought that or someone said, hey, someone has had a seizure when they'd done this before. And then for some reason that encouraged, all right, great, I, I'm going to smoke this now because I want to have a seizure. Not really. So when I did that and I, I inhaled it, I had that thought of, like, what if you just have a seizure and die? And I'm just like, oh, crap. So then my brain's like, oh, my God, you're gonna die, you're gonna die, you're gonna die. From that point, something clicked in my brain. And that was the turning point when I started having really intrusive, taboo panic attacks. And that kind of started my OCD journey of, like, I didn't really have intrusive thoughts per se, as much, like, with the, when I was in high school. But it turned from, like, the perfectionism. Maybe there was some worries, but, like, until the intrusive thoughts, like, I'm going to lose control and kill myself or kill my family, shoot myself with a gun. All of those things really exacerbated from that moment. I would look back at that moment and before, like, oh, my God, I should have never done that. I look back at that, like, If I didn't do that, I probably wouldn't be an OCD therapist. That moment created me to be able to kind of connect with clients that have had similar experiences, like with harm and POCD and sensory motor stuff that, like, if I never experienced that, which again, I wouldn't wish up anyone, I don't think I would be able to understand some of the symptoms that I see clinically. So I see that as a positive. Like, again, yes, is a negative, but I don't. I don't try to look at a negative because then that's not helpful. So that kind of snowballed into. I was in undergrad and I was having these panic symptoms from that. That one episode. I would go to the gym. I started just having really. It was sending off panic attacks. I'm like, I'm going to lose control. Something bad's going to happen. I remember I was in undergrad and someone, one of the person, professor's like, oh, yesterday or something, someone just jumped off the. The parking garage. And I wasn't on site when that happened, but they said that someone jumped off. And I was like, oh, crap. So that day I just, I went my. I actually had my car up on the parking garage. I remember going to get it and my brain goes, what if you want to jump? And I'm just like, oh, crap. And I got so intensely fearful. I got in my car. I just felt like there was an urge like, dude, you're going to do it. You're going to do it. You're going to do it. Just jump. And I was having like, kind of the intrusive OCD commands, like, just do it. And I'm just like, oh, my God, oh my God, oh my God. And I remember flying home and like, just. I was like, what the heck just happened? And I was so scared, so nervous. I was looking at. I also look at knives. I'm like, I'm just gonna lose control and just grab that knife and stab my dad. And I just. I didn't know what I was experiencing. So long story short, too, that led me. I went to the ER over time and I was just like, I'm having these thoughts. I don't want to. Want to hurt myself. I love life more than life itself. I. But I'm like, I just keep having these thoughts. I'm going to lose control and kill someone or kill myself. They're like, oh, my God, there's something wrong with you. I'm like, oh, really? Like, yeah, like, we. We need you to go into. Inpatient I'm like, okay, that's so. I'm just like, crap, I'm going crazy. I remember going into inpatient facility, like the first. They're like, it's fine. You can bring your. I didn't know anything about inpatient at that time. They're like, you can go. You're going to have your phone. Like, you can talk to people. Like, it's going to be like. And I remember walking in there and they're like, oh, all right. Take your shoelaces off. I'm like, why am I taking my shoelaces off? They're like, so you don't hang yourself. I'm like, yeah. Oh, crap. So that kind of led to many years, maybe five or six years. I was on medication, came off. Medication, came off, was not getting the right help. Actually, that may have been like seven or eight. So I was untreated OCD from that time until probably about four years ago in that sense. So, yeah, that. That inpatient facility definitely scared me because I was like, I'm going crazy. Like, why. I wouldn't. I'm trusting these people. They don't know what I'm experiencing. They're.
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They.
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They've gave. Given me antipsychotics in the sense to really calm me down, not in a. A way to help with oc, but the way that they think I'm going to hurt myself. So that became extremely distressing in that sense, and very shameful. Like, I was in a relationship at that time. I had to drop out of school a little bit. I was also in the military, so if the military found out I was in there, I had to keep it a secret. I couldn't say anything because if they found out one of their soldiers was in there, they would not let me shoot any or practice or anything, and they would probably discharge me. So I had to not say anything for the fear of getting reprimanded.
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B
Geez, it's a lot.
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And it's. It's a lot, but it. That's. That's why I'm very passionate about nocd. It. I. I didn't find the right help until I came to NOCD. I. It was about 10, 12 years until I just. I remember initially I reached out to nocd, and I don't think we took my insurance at the time. So I'm like, dang it. These people know. I read an article or something and I'm like, that's what I'm. That's what I have. And I try and I'm like, ah. I Can try to see if I can pay it out of pocket, but was just too much at the time. And then I came back and then that changed my life for the better. And it. What was the craziest thing about that is so I had untreated OCD for about 15 years, 16 years. It didn't take me 15 or 16 years to get better. It took me actually a couple months to get going and then maybe a year in the sense of like to solidify and to like get my reps in with exposures and stuff. But. But like it didn't take me 15 years to get better, which was extremely hopeful. And that's what I try to instill with clients too. Just because something caused something not necessarily means going to maintain it and it's going to like it. We're not going to take all this time to undo it. Because it seems like a lot of our clients, including myself, they come here and they're like, well, I haven't had the right treatment for 15 years. Yeah.
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B
So yeah, that's right in the unfortunate sweet spot, shall we say, of that 14 to 17 years where people just kind of seem to suffer without getting the right treatment. When ERP was introduced to you, what, what was it like and how was it different than everything else you tried before it the.
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When ERP was introduced it at that time. So my OCD now is I the harm. OCD doesn't really bother me. What kind of is my like more that will kind of come in. It's kind of sensory motor. So like I would really obsess about my breathing, but then harm would kind of come in and harm would be like, well, what if you actually like purposely held your breath and like wanted to do that and pass out? So the harm in the sensory motor kind of came up. So the reason why is that I was very discouraged going in. I'm like, I don't know how the heck this clinician is going to be able to do this. I've researched everything. Nothing has worked. And, but going into erp, I was doing it all wrong. I was doing compulsions. Like I was. I didn't know those sneaky micro level compulsions that were happening. So when I went to erp, we really took a deep dive into all of the compulsions I was doing both physically and mentally that really, really allowed me to build that awareness to what I was doing without even knowing it. So when I went there, actually I think the first therapist I worked with or the therapist I worked with was like, I have OCD too. And I've experienced sensory motor. I was like, sensory motor. I'm like, I did not know anyone ever experienced that. So, like, that was very validating. That's when I'm like, this. These are my people. I'm like, this is. This is my spot. Like, I have found what I've been looking for for the last 10 to 15 years. I'm like, this is awesome. We did exposures, but we really worked on learning through behavior. Like, we didn't. We're not challenging the thoughts. We weren't trying to work on distortions like the other. I've had previous providers where if you go over a bridge and you want to jump, just think of, like, a calm, peaceful place. And. No, we were thinking about, well, let's do an imaginal. You're. You're jumping off that. I'm like, all right, that sounds counterintuitive. But then I noticed when I started doing that, I was like. I would drive in over bridges. I'm like, I don't care. I'm not scared anymore. So, like, it was just. It was crazy. And ERP therapy was just very counterintuitive to anything I was doing. But, like, then I noticed, like, that counterintuitive stuff was working. So we. It was great. It was great. We built the awareness of all the compulsions I was doing. And then we just. I. I was really dedicated to doing exposures. I would go up on at some. At one of the times I was nervous of bridges. So, like, near my house, there was a. Like, a little walk bridge or a drawbridge, whatever. So I would go that walk there every single day at, like, 12:30. And I would do my exposure. Even. I remember it was freezing. Like, it would get to, like, 5 degrees. It was snowing. It was raining. But I was so dedicated to be like, I need to beat this. So I would go up into the bridge, and I would look down. I'd be about 100ft up, and I'm like, I don't know, I might jump. Who knows? This really sucks. But I'm gonna sit with this feeling. I'm gonna let it be. And I would do that every day. And my. There would be times, too, with my therapist, which I loved because I could bring my phone and I could go and have therapy session right on the bridge. And, like. And it wasn't like I was going up on a highway bridge. It was a smaller bridge that could still. Still splatter my body, but I was able to bring them. And that's why I'M such a big fan of telehealth, because you can't. I'm sure people could do that in real life, but it's the access of it was so easy to just click, all right, let's look. And they're like, all right, you got this. And then I would, I would do that exposure. So, but I, I put in the work because it was kind of life or death. Either I was going to be miserable for the rest of my life if I didn't treat it in my. Because OC was torturous or put in a little bit of the work or do the exposure keep doing it day by day. And now for me, I push my love. My, my symptoms so low. I don't like, I'll do exposures if I have to. I really harp on the response prevention part. But I put in the work and my symptoms are like, I, I'll have episodes of like, anxiety, but that could be like, every couple of weeks. Like, I don't have sign, like, strong, significant, like distressing days or even moments. And I'm not on medication anymore or anything. So I, I've really put in the work and really, really believe that ERP could save lives.
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So I like that you said you're harping on the response prevention part. Right? Because there are some therapists out there who say, I'm an exposure therapist. But if you just expose people with OCD to things and you don't teach them response prevention, they're just going to do compulsions and they're just going to get worse instead of better. So, so how important was actual good response prevention for you and your journey to getting to where you are today?
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Yeah, that's, that's a great point. I, I, and great question. I think that was the most important part. I think what helped me was being able to really understand what response prevention was and really kind of break away from this notion that exposures in and of itself were gonna cure me or to. They were gonna be the end all, be all. Because again, I've done that. Technically, I did that with cbt, Thera. Go over the bridge and then like, okay, but then they. I would just go over the bridge. So I was just conditioning my fear. I was just going over and over and over, and I'm like, well, I'm getting worse and worse and worse. And not in the sense of the erp you get worse free, feel better sometimes. But so the response prevention. Once I did the course of treatment that year at nocd, we really harped on that But I also, I think what helped is like, I under, I was actually like understanding what a compulsion was and like really taking the time. If I had a hundred compulsions, I wasn't ashamed to work with my therapist to be like, like, these are all of these compulsions that I'm doing. And then she did a really good job of like, all right, well, all of these, yes, it's really good. But like, these are actually kind of like a subset of like avoidance. And like all of them kind of stemmed from like reassurance, avoidance, distraction, but they were just branches of it. So once I was understanding those that then I was able to stop. If I'm not aware of something, then I can't stop it. So the awareness, in my opinion, is probably 50% of like being able to stop that. So the response prevention was extremely important because now for me, I, for the, there's probably maybe some compulsions, I don't know. But I know for the most part all of my mental and physical compulsions, from rumination to mental reviewing to any physical things. And I, I just took it logic in the sense of like, I went, okay, well I'm doing all these compulsions. Let me try to reduce every single one slowly over time. And then I noticed that when I did that, my symptoms got better. So like, I went at it as I laid it all on there, a hundred compulsions. Let me just slowly start taking. I didn't even, I did exposures, but that helped just as much. And so sometimes for me, when I'm working with clients, we do a deep dive of how many compulsions they're doing. And I don't care. Sometimes they feel shameful, but I don't care. If you do 500, we're going to start slow and we're going to try to slowly start removing. And what I've seen is clients do really well because they, they then can. It's not the exposure that's really the meat and potatoes. It's like they can then apply that to anytime. They're actually spontaneously triggered. So the response prevention, extremely important, in my, my opinion. So awesome. Yeah.
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B
And, and I agree. You know, I, I, I. One of the pet peeves I sometimes have is someone will say they're an exposure therapist. Right. Which, which just means, uh, just exposing people isn't the helpful thing. It's if you don't teach them response prevention, they don't change.
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Right, exactly, exactly. And, and like using like relaxation to like, get rid of the fear or using like some other like, thing to kind of get rid of that experience. And that's not what I do in ERP is like, we. We want to be friends with that experience, be like, invite that distress and not try to get rid of that experience. And usually when we become curious and accepting of that is usually when it kind of naturally kind of drifts away. But I've also learned to. That inhibitory model of actually learning to live with those and not trying to get rid of it in the sense of like. So anytime I feel anxious or anything, even with my OCD comes up, I've created a relationship where it's like, hot dang, it's back again. No, I've created. It's like, okay, this is what is here. It is what it is. I'm going to get through this episode and. And then keep carrying on. I have a really, really, like, kind of platonic relationship with anxiety or any feeling. I don't care that it comes or goes. And because it doesn't matter if I can do everything in my life that's important to me. It doesn't matter if anxiety is there. I'm still winning because I'm doing everything that's important to me. So there you go.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with having a full range of feelings. Right. But.
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A
Exactly.
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Some people have been told or learned that, that these feelings are bad and you need to do whatever you can to make them go away as quickly as possible. Instead of what you've done is I've learned to live with them. And I know that, though uncomfortable, they don't have to rule my life or be in the driver's seat of my life.
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Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I've. I've been able to. I think that has allowed me to build up distress tolerance skills and also regulated my emotions. And I think it's one of those things where even being a male, it's like, oh, you should know how to handle or regulate your emotions or don't feel this way. And then what happens? I think with OCD too, there's a big shame factor, guilt factor. So when I am experiencing, or when I was experiencing pretty significant ocd, it was that point of like, I shouldn't be feeling this. I shouldn't be feeling this intrusive image or groin or response or anything, because I've already had that negative relationship that emotions are bad. And then once I changed that relationship, my OCD started to. So I started to understand it more. And it wasn't as distressing because I'm like, I don't care what I'm feeling. Feelings aren't facts and they're not going to hurt me. I'm just going to sit and feel. It's just discomfort. And that was one of the goals for me, is just to sit with discomfort and learn. Hey, I'm still here. That's okay.
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B
Yeah. So why a therapist? How did that come about?
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A
Yeah, I get asked that a lot. So initially it I, I was going to be a pro football player until I hurt my knee. No, I'm just kidding. But I mean, dream big, man.
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B
That's what I say.
- [29:53]
A
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So if I didn't have that knee injury, but a therapist, I think what really changed me because again, initially I wanted to be an audiologist. Then that dealt kind of hit me. I was just like, no, I'm good. I think what changed me is when I sought therapy at nocd, the. The therapist was like, hey, you have pretty good insight on your ocd. OCD is like a hidden epidemic. Like, no one like, or it's something that is not treated correctly all the time. There's not a lot of providers. There's not a lot of good providers out there. Like, I think you'd be really good. And I'm like, is no CD hiring? And they're like, yes. So I'm like, let me try it. I was already, I already finished grad school. I was doing therapy, trauma informed therapy and all that fun jazz. And I'm like, my life has been miserable with ocd, but I was able to get better with it. Let me help others. And then I reached out to nocd. They said, nope. And then I reached out again and they said, nope. No, I'm just kidding. They actually said, yeah, let's, let's, let's, let's do an interview. And I was hired. And then once I learned even more about ERP and was able to apply those skills, I saw people getting better quicker. I was like, wow. Even my other jobs as a therapist, I have never seen someone get quick feeling better this quick. I'm like, this stuff works. And then it kind of just was so gratifying. I'm like, I literally just saw people that don't want to live anymore. Now they want to live. There's no better feeling. So, like, that I can't. There's no price I can put on that. It's crazy that I landed and became an OCD therapist, but the reward to see people actually get better like myself is remarkable. So, like, I don't think a. I'm ever going to not be an OCD therapist and B ever probably lead no cd. So I think you guys are stuck with me.
- [31:40]
B
That's what I say too. They're stuck with me. Yeah.
- [31:43]
A
So it's okay. It's okay. So but it's definitely, definitely gratifying to help other people with OCD because ERP works.
- [31:54]
B
Some people will talk about to becoming an OCD therapist and the training that you have to go through. You went to grad school, you had OCD and I'm betting what you knew before you joined us and went through our training was a thimble full of a Olympic sized pool of ocd. This right?
- [32:14]
A
Yeah, yeah. I also say too like grad school is great. I went to GR like I did the medical social worker route and for clinical, medical, social or sorry clinical social work. And I could be biased and, or any but I learned more clinically at no CD than I did in grad school and that I've, I obviously I can treat BFRBs, OCD. I'm working on B DS if I do the trauma, do the hoarding, like there's so many. They don't touch upon that with in grad school I felt like if there was any way to just like kind of skip grad school and just go there like I would have done that in a three year route. So like no CB the, the training is remarkable and why I love it so much is like when I meet with a client it's not. You're not just working with me, you're. I have a whole team that has my back that if I don't know how to treat like a certain symptom I can talk with the best experts of OC in the, in the country and if not in the world. So like it's like a whole team approach. So I would say no. See like I learned more than I did in grad school and that's nothing about with grad school. I think it's a systemic thing. They got to work on that. But I think the clinical training that I received here is second to none. And I, my confidence has grown so much by just going to consultations, talking to experts in the field and also like being able to ask questions to learn. And not once have I ever asked a question that nocidi in one of the leadership or anyone co workers go that was a stupid question. It's more of like no code. I want you to keep learning. I'm going to teach you this. So I am very, very excited to be able to keep learning. But no city has been in my opinion, remarkable and better than the grad school that I went to. So. But still not saying it better, but I learned more clinical stuff than they're. They only touched upon it.
- [34:07]
B
Yeah, I've, I've thought about if, if there's a retirement career potential for me it would be. I think we do need to revamp the graduate school training that we get to become therapists and I think that there's not enough focus on evidence based treatments at all. And therefore we're doing a disservice to people by not knowing those things when we graduate. But we can still go get a license and practice a lot of diaphragmatic breathing and muscle relaxation that we teach people to do when that isn't necessarily the best treatment to do.
- [34:46]
A
Exactly. And I also, I feel like ethically NOCD does an amazing job at hiring and even with associates, but then hiring, putting them through training and then kind of sending them out to be able to work. A lot of people that even myself getting out of graduate school and then going say being an associate and then working for different companies or different private practices, they're like okay here and they inundate you with all these clients and you're like, I don't have all these skills, I don't know what to do. And like, I'm like my, my confidence is not there because I've never been able to apply. So no cd at least you have that, that foundation to be able to, to do the cams, to be able to do the mock clients and have that initial experience to be able to work with clients instead of like a typical grad student gets out goes works if they go to a private therapy, they're working with cases they, they don't have experience with. And I, and I've dealt with that. I was working with cases a long time ago, I shouldn't have been working with them. And that is an ethical issue in my opinion, to be able to treat someone that I'm not an expert or a specialist and actually potentially harming them. So I love how nocity really equips people with that initial baseline base knowledge and then continues to encourage and focus and strengthen their ability by going through consultations and having them, you know, keep building their skills. But I wish everyone was like no ski but well, thank you.
- [36:14]
B
It took some time to set that
- [36:15]
A
up but I proud of happened overnight.
- [36:17]
B
Yeah, proud of the work we did with that too. Now there's the other piece.
- [36:22]
A
Right.
- [36:23]
B
You're, you got a family. Right. And And OCD likely tries to also integrate itself into the family, too.
- [36:31]
A
Yeah.
- [36:32]
B
How do you manage your career and your family and OCD trying now and then to say, hey, look at me, look at me.
- [36:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, That's a great question. I think I. I always, for me, I check my vulnerabilities. Like, I always check my stress levels. I always work life balance, nutrition, sleep, alcohol consumption, caffeine consumption, all of those things to kind of like, make sure my OC is not, like, going rampant. So I definitely get those under control. I think I'm at the point now where my ocd, how I knew I was going to my wife was my wife is that I remember she was talking, I'm like, what? And she was pregnant at the time with my son. And I like, what if you. If you get like, you know, harm, like thoughts or anything like that? She's like, cody, I'm married to an ERP therapist. Like, I know what harm OCD is. Like, I know I could have intrusive thought of stabbing your son. I'm like, all right, this is my wife. So, like, that, I think even helped her kind of set her up that she wasn't worried about having intrusive thoughts. She didn't end up. Not to that extent, but that conversation helped me. But also, like, definitely allowed her to kind of understand what's going on. But I do. It's funny. I do. I. I just built a house about seven months ago, and I have a second story balcony. And when I have my son, I have him like, what if I just whip him off this? And my brain's like, I don't know. And I just. I don't go by. I actually have him look over the balcony or not look, but I'll be just like, hey, Mom. And my brain's like, you could just throw him. I'm just like, I don't know. That would suck. But then I just carry on so. So that I. I definitely am not shy. All my friends, family, I'm not the coding more that's going to back down. Just not talk about ocd. Everyone knows I have ocd. And there's been many times where people are just like, I have that. Like, I didn't know that was OCD or. No, that was generalized anxiety. Like, I. I'm so glad that you spoke up. Where before I was very nervous and even like, I'll have, like, worry or in the past, more worries of like, oh, see, what if it's genetic? Or. And what if my son gets it? And. Or what if he develops symptoms? And if he does, he does. And what is really kind of emotional and war. Like, I don't know the right word right now, but it's very comforting to know that if my son did experience OCD symptoms at a very young age, no CD would have his back. So, like, that is no better to feel than. Than my suffering for 15 years or 20 years to not get treated. But if. Again, I'll deal with that when the time comes. I'll. If my son. Who knows? But, like, I do know that if my son does have experience, that I'm gonna have Dr. McGrath treat him. So. Thank you.
- [39:17]
B
Yeah, sure.
- [39:18]
A
No problem.
- [39:18]
B
Take care.
- [39:19]
A
Thank you. But that. It's really, really reassuring in that sense to know that nursity has my back. But, yeah, so family is big. I just. I'm not shy about talking with ocd. And it'd be surprised, like, the more I talk about, the more people come out of the woodwork. They're like, I have had intrusive sexual thoughts about children. I have had thoughts that I want to stab people. I wanted to. You know, I was focusing on this, this, and this, and I'm just like, wow. Like, that's. That's. I'm glad that you're able to talk about that, because people with OCD can function really, really high. Like, no one would know. I could literally have a panic attack in front of you right now, and I'd just be like, so no one would know I had ocd. So that's part of the problem, too. People got to speak up about their ocd. So. But my family. I think that's what makes. In my family, they. They know the struggles I've been through, but they also are very encouraging. They. I don't. I don't get reassurance from them. I don't. They don't accommodate, because I know better in that sense. So they. They're. They're. They're here, and they. They love everything I'm doing, and they. They definitely are my biggest supporters, and I couldn't ask for a better family. That sense.
- [40:23]
B
There's people out there debating right now, do I do this? Do I take the risk? How do you. What's. What's the thing that, to you, pushes them toward actually making the phone call?
- [40:33]
A
I would say. And I'm. I'm not even a biased person. I would say, don't give up. Ask the questions about what you're experiencing, but call nocd. Like, call if I know there's plenty of great OCD specialists out there. But call NOCD and just give it a shot and I promise you that you will get the right care and you will have a team of experts and specialists work as hard as they can to get you better. So like, the biggest thing I would say reach out to nocd. Worst case, if you don't reach out to someone that knows how to treat OCD with erp. But I reach out to nocd, it changed my life for the better. And if it's extremely daunting, it's very stigmatizing at times it feels very alone to be able to like not want to speak about this. But living with untreated OCD is torturous. Calling ocd, even if it's just a talk, the member advocates, the whole team in and of itself were here just for ocd, obviously OCD related disorders. But the main, main focus is OCD at times. So like, you're gonna get the right help and it's gonna save you years and years of going through other providers that say they know how to treat it and it could waste your time. At least we know that these therapists at NOC are trained from the best and that they're gonna point you into the right direction. So you have to call em OCD in my opinion. And you're not going to be let down, in my opinion.
- [42:05]
B
Cody, thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate it. I know that it will be inspiring for a lot of people to hear this too. So it was great tracks.
- [42:13]
A
Yeah, I appreciate being here and if anyone ever has a question, just reach out and I will always talk about my story. And thank you so much for having me on here.
- [42:22]
B
Absolutely. And thank all of you for watching the get to Know OCD podcast. If you liked it, you can subscribe to our NOCD YouTube channel and check out all sorts of other episodes. Even our Wednesday night webinars are recorded on there too, where I answer questions from people all over the world every week about ocd. And if you're looking for help for OCD related conditions, well, check us out@nocd.com that's nocd.com and we would be happy to set you up with one of our amazingly well trained therapists like Cody was talking about today, so that you can start to get the help you need and you can live the life that you want to live and not the life that OCD wants you to live. Go out, live your life, be good, treat yourself better than your OCD ever would, and we hope to see you again. Soon. Thanks for watching.