Christine Caine | Girls Gone Bible

Summary

Podcast Summary: Girls Gone Bible - Episode Featuring Christine Caine

Podcast Information

• Title: Girls Gone Bible
• Host/Author: Girls Gone Bible (Angela Halili and Arielle Reitsma)
• Description: A podcast exploring "All things Jesus, all things life," hosted by Angela Halili and Arielle Reitsma. They share their journeys as imperfect girls serving an absolutely perfect God.
• Episode: Christine Caine | Girls Gone Bible
• Release Date: July 18, 2025

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Introduction

In this profound episode of Girls Gone Bible, hosts Angela Halili (Ang) and Arielle Reitsma (Ari) welcome renowned speaker and activist Christine Caine. They express deep admiration for Christine, highlighting her unwavering commitment to faith and her impactful ministry work.

Ang (00:39): "We have an episode, and he literally comes in the room at one point and he's like, I can't believe this. Like, I literally just read what you're talking about this morning. God is speaking to me."

Christine Caine’s Personal Background

Christine Caine opens up about her upbringing in a Greek immigrant family in Sydney, Australia. She shares harrowing experiences of marginalization due to her ethnicity and, more painfully, enduring sexual abuse by four different men during her youth. This period of her life was shrouded in shame, a concept she distinguishes sharply from guilt.

Christine Caine (02:09): "I always thought there was something wrong with me. No wonder in Genesis 2:25, it says, 'Adam and Eve were naked and they knew no shame.'"

Discovery of Her Adoption

A pivotal moment in Christine's life occurred when she discovered she was adopted at the age of 33. This revelation compounded her feelings of abandonment and identity crisis.

Christine Caine (03:37): "Two weeks after my 33rd birthday, I went, 'I've been adopted too.' It was shocking to find out I'm not who I thought I was."

Faith Journey and Healing

Christine recounts her journey to faith, beginning at age 22 when she joined a local church in Sydney. She emphasizes the transformative power of internalizing Scripture to combat deep-seated shame and rebuild her identity in Christ.

Christine Caine (14:58): "Nothing helped like internalizing the Word of God in the very marrow of my bones... replacing the lies I believed about myself with the truth of what God said about me."

Shame vs. Guilt

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the distinction between shame and guilt. Christine explains that while guilt is about feeling bad for specific actions ("I did something wrong"), shame encompasses a deeper belief of inherent unworthiness ("There's something wrong with me").

Christine Caine (29:38): "Shame is about who you are. You think fundamentally there's something wrong with me."

Purpose and Divine Calling

Drawing from Ephesians 2:10, Christine discusses the concept of purpose, highlighting that believers are created for "good works" that God has prepared in advance. She underscores that true purpose aligns with God's will rather than personal desires.

Christine Caine (56:00): "Our purpose here on earth is to glorify God... Ephesians 2:10 says, 'We are His handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works.'"

Grace and Divine Enablement

Christine expounds on the nature of grace, distinguishing it from mere forgiveness. She describes grace as a divine enablement that empowers believers to fulfill their God-given callings, emphasizing reliance on the Holy Spirit.

Christine Caine (68:05): "Grace is not just forgiveness of sin, but it's a supernatural divine enablement to do what you otherwise could not do."

Platform vs. Pillar in Ministry

Addressing the modern desire to build personal platforms, Christine advises a focus on being faithful pillars within God's house. She warns against seeking personal fame and underscores the importance of stewardship over the platforms God has provided.

Christine Caine (63:45): "We're stewarding a platform that God built for you... If you put yourself there, you gotta keep yourself there."

Staying Rooted in the Word

Christine emphasizes the necessity of cultivating a personal relationship with God through consistent engagement with Scripture and prayer, especially in a world saturated with distractions like social media.

Christine Caine (76:49): "Once you meet the Holy Spirit, that's it. That's my first thing."

Encouragement and Call to Action

Towards the end of the episode, Christine offers a heartfelt prayer and a call to listeners to embrace their identity in Christ, overcome shame, and find purpose through faith.

Christine Caine (79:20): "The same Jesus that stepped into the life of this unnamed, unwanted, abused, adopted girl... is the same Jesus right here, right now, able to give you forgiveness, a brand new life, and a hope for the future."

Notable Quotes

1. Christine Caine (02:09): "I always thought there was something wrong with me. No wonder in Genesis 2:25, it says, 'Adam and Eve were naked and they knew no shame.'"
2. Christine Caine (14:58): "Nothing helped like internalizing the Word of God in the very marrow of my bones."
3. Christine Caine (29:38): "Shame is about who you are. You think fundamentally there's something wrong with me."
4. Christine Caine (56:00): "Our purpose here on earth is to glorify God... Ephesians 2:10 says, 'We are His handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works.'"
5. Christine Caine (68:05): "Grace is not just forgiveness of sin, but it's a supernatural divine enablement to do what you otherwise could not do."
6. Christine Caine (63:45): "We're stewarding a platform that God built for you... If you put yourself there, you gotta keep yourself there."
7. Christine Caine (76:49): "Once you meet the Holy Spirit, that's it. That's my first thing."
8. Christine Caine (79:20): "The same Jesus that stepped into the life of this unnamed, unwanted, abused, adopted girl... is the same Jesus right here, right now, able to give you forgiveness, a brand new life, and a hope for the future."

Conclusion

This episode of Girls Gone Bible offers listeners an intimate glimpse into Christine Caine's transformative journey from a troubled past to a life dedicated to serving God and others. Her profound insights on shame, purpose, and grace provide both inspiration and practical guidance for anyone navigating their faith journey.

Listeners are left with a powerful reminder of the redemptive nature of God and the importance of grounding one's identity in Christ. Christine's heartfelt prayer at the episode's end serves as a call to action, inviting all to embrace their worth in God's eyes and live out their divine purposes.

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For More Information:

• Christine Caine's Work: A21 Campaign
• Girls Gone Bible: Follow Angela Halili and Arielle Reitsma on their social platforms @angelahalili and @ariellereitsma.

Transcript

[Christine Caine]

And I've been walking with Jesus longer than you've been alive and it just gets better.

[Ari]

Wow.

[Ang]

Thank you, Jesus.

[Christine Caine]

He's got a great story and you girls have helped him. He's where you guys got here, how you guys have helped me and kind of like let me find my path to him encourag me to do it.

[Ang]

Oh, Jess, can you imagine a year of him being our producer? He's sitting right in that room. Two years. Oh, my gosh, two years.

[Christine Caine]

Look at him. These were my first.

[Ang]

We were the first ones. That makes me so happy.

[Christine Caine]

I don't think we're going to be quiet. Excuse me, I'm talking.

[Ang]

Hi, I'm Ang.

[Ari]

And I'm Ari.

[Ang]

And this is Girls Gone Bible. And you guys know when I'm sitting on this side of the table, it's a really good day. And we just have the greatest guests here on Girls Gone Bible. And I think we're so grateful today because we have one of the greatest women of faith that we've ever even had the opportunity of watching preach a sermon or speak at a conference. The fact that we get to sit here across from a woman that we admire so much is like truly proof of the goodness of God. Christine Cain, we love you and we honor you today. We thank you for being here.

[Christine Caine]

Girls, I am so fired up. We have not stopped talking already.

[Ang]

Oh, man, we are so excited to have you today.

[Christine Caine]

Listen, I'm pumped. I really am. Thank you for inviting me. It's awesome.

[Ang]

We have. I didn't know that you lived in California. Yeah, I don't know why I thought that you were somewhere else, but you live really close to me, so I'm gonna be hitting you up for dinner.

[Ari]

Probably quite a hundred percent.

[Christine Caine]

Really? I don't cook, but I do order in really well.

[Ang]

Oh, my God. Yeah, that's perfect for me. Yeah. Christine, we're so excited to talk to you today. You have lived an extraordinary life. You love Jesus so much. You preach the word of God with truth, with conviction, with clarity and from. What I do know about you is that you're just so highly respected in this space. And. Yeah, I just know that there's no compromise in you.

[Christine Caine]

Yeah. You know, girls, one of the greatest things about being my age, you know, I'm old enough that I was here when the dinosaurs still walked on me, that I got saved before there was an Internet or before there was social media. So you. I so encountered Jesus and I never had an option of like going online to kind of scroll through everybody's life and kind of go, oh, I would like to do that for God. Like, you know, you got into a prayer closet with the Lord to get a download from what God wanted you to do. So it was not like you were ever signing up for, like, a career. And in fact, for me, it was so the opposite. I came from a very strict Greek Orthodox background. Girls, you know, I'm older than you. Girls. Women did not do what I'm doing. There was no, like, precedent that I really could see or a paradigm. I just got saved. Saved. And so eventually, someone shoved a microphone in front of my face to do what I was just doing nonstop, which was leading people to Jesus and which is really what I keep doing now all over the world.

[Ang]

So special. Can you please just get into your story a little bit from childhood to meeting Jesus and then to where you are now?

[Christine Caine]

Oh, gosh, I wish it was just linear, but, you know, I was born the daughter of Greek immigrants in Sydney, Australia. Have you guys been to Sydney?

[Ang]

No, I have not been to Australia, but we're upset.

[Ari]

Oh, I went years ago.

[Christine Caine]

It's awesome.

[Ari]

It is. Have you seen those big spiders?

[Christine Caine]

Yeah.

[Ari]

I'm so scared. I don't know.

[Christine Caine]

Every American on earth thinks Australia is full of just snakes and spiders.

[Ari]

Are just spiders this big?

[Christine Caine]

Well, there are two angulars, but I think the myth is a bit more. The legend is a bit greater. I did survive 45 years living full time. Survived. That's all I'm saying. But, yeah, they are pretty ugly. Yes, they are Huntsmans. They are, like, as big as your hand. That's right. Really hairy. Yeah. Okay, so that's freaking you out. Exactly. But. And yes, I did see a few in my time, but, you know, so I grew up, and back then, there were, you know, we just had our own version of, like, being very marginalized because of my ethnicity. You know, there wasn't in my community a lot of Greek kids. It was just kind of you on the side there. I grew up in an environment where women were definitely not encouraged to go and live for your dreams. It was, you know, and especially to be an ethnic kid. Like, the goal was just get married, have kids. You know, don't think outside the box. Stay within these lines. And, you know, my parents were great, but my parents allowed people into our home whom they should have been able to trust, but proved really, really untrustworthy. So for a lot of years of my life, I was sexually abused at the hands of four different men that were just kind of in and out of Our. And as you can imagine, that messes with you big time. You know, so I was really very broken. And back then, I mean, nobody was talking about it. In the 1970s, 1980s, I didn't even have a word for what was happening to me. You know, it was like, thank God for where we are today in terms of, you know, post. Me too. And people being aware and people having tools to speak up and say something. But then there was nowhere. You kind of just been and you buried the shame that. Except you lived in that shame. So I would say that I was so shame filled. And that drove me to try to get my significance and security from just all the stuff you do, from looking for love in places that, you know, we're never really gonna deliver or trying to achieve and, you know, accomplish stuff academically or try to somehow find my value. Because there was this. And, you know, shame obviously is different to guilt. Guilt is kind of, I did something wrong. Shame is there's something wrong with me. So I can tell you as long as I've ever remembered that I always thought there was something wrong with me. No Wonder in Genesis 2. 25, it says the very last verse before the fall, the Bible says, Adam and Eve were naked and they knew no shame. The one thing God wanted us to know is that we were designed to never know what that felt like. So if you were the enemy and you wanted to take out a generation, you're gonna try to put on them the one thing they were never designed to carry. And so of all the things God could have said, last thing he said, Adam and Eve were naked and then, you know, shame, bang. Then Genesis 3, we get into the fall where shame enters humanity. And so the enemy has done the same thing ever since. No, you know, there's nothing new in that. And so, and with that, you know, question, three questions then in Genesis 3, where the enemy, the very first question in the Bible, he comes to Eve and he says, did God really say? Because the issue is, if you don't know what God said, you're gonna believe. In my case, you're gonna believe what the abuser said. You're gonna believe what the kids at school said that mocked and ridiculed you because you weren't, you know, of the same ethnicity. You're gonna believe what your culture and tradition says, that women shouldn't do this. You know, so did God really say? Is the first question in the Bible and the single most important question still today. We're recording this in 2025. There is no more Important do not know what God said. You're gonna believe what everybody else says. And culture, society worse what you say. So you know, God says, Adam and Eve were naked, then you know, shame. Then did God really say you just. It just. The pattern repeats itself. And God comes into the garden with the very first question and he says, where are you? God's first question to humanity is, where are you? Because when they ate of the tree, they ate of the fruit of the tree. They what's the first thing they did? They went into hiding. And Adam says to God, you know, I was naked and afraid and so we hid. So fear, shame, hiding was in the first conversation between God and man. I'm saying all that to go. That was my whole experience. So I grew up in church, in a three hour liturgy in ancient Greek, in a Greek Orthodox church that I never understood. But my heart, my little tender heart wanted God, but I didn't understand any of it. I used to see pictures of the saints on the walls. And I remember saying to my mom when I was a K, mom, I wanna get my picture on the wall. But she told me, like, you had to die and get martyred. So I didn't wanna do that anymore. But it was like this feeling, but I had this sense that I wanted God. But I thought, truly, there is no way God could love someone as dirty as me, as used as me. You know, I didn't have language for what was happening, but there was this something wrong with me. And then there's that invitation from God, you know, where are you? And I think he's asking us, where is the you? Where did you go into hiding? Who said what to you or who did what to you that caused you to run from me? Which is why humanity runs from God, I think. And then, you know, two weeks before my 33rd birthday, I got a phone call from my brother George. And he was 35. I was about to be 33, and my younger brother Andrew was 30 at the time. And George called me and he said, chris, I just got a letter from the government in Australia. This department is the Department of Community Services. He goes, I just got a letter from Docs and it says that I've been adopted. Now, when he first said that to me, I started laughing because, you know, when you grow up, you say to your siblings, we're not related. Like you're adopted. Okay, so. But then suddenly, I mean, I go, george, they've obviously made a mistake. They've sent this to the wrong person. You know, call them and tell them that they've sent this letter to the wrong person. Now, he called me about 10 minutes later, because this time, like, he was sobbing, and he goes to me, he said, chris, it's true. They tell me the name of my biological mother, my biological father, when I was born, when I was immuno, they have a whole file on my life. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And he goes, I'm gonna go and confront Mum. Now. My dad had died when I was 19. At the time, my mom was home alone. And we're from a Greek background, so Greeks are really crazy. So I'm thinking anything could happen. Now I jump in my car, I drive to my mom's house. I walk into the front door. At the minute my brother is giving my mom this piece of paper. And my mom's face, I saw her take it. I felt like I was watching a movie. And the blood just drained from her face. She starts crying and she goes, george, I am so sorry. All of the adoption laws in Australia, 35 years ago, they were all closed adoptions. And we never thought you would find out. And the last thing I promised your dad before he died was that I'd never tell you. So I tore up all of the paperwork, and I never thought you'd find out. So, girls, you could imagine, like, my mum's crying, my brother's crying. I'm thinking, what am I gonna do? So I thought, you know, I'm a good Greek daughter. Go to the kitchen, make food, do something. So I go start making some food, and then my mother walks in behind me, and in Greek, you know, she spoke to me in Greek. She said to me, christina, since we're telling the truth today, do you want to know the whole truth? And with that, I turned around. So I'm. Two weeks after my 33rd birthday, I went, I've been adopted, too. Like, I had no idea. And she's bawling and just. Just nods her head and says yes. And I was stunned. Like, just stunned. You know, it's a shocking thing to find out you're not who you thought you were. Like, it's shocking. Oh, my gosh. And so if you want to talk about the crux of your identity being challenged of who you are, and you know the first thing I said to her? Well, the very first thing I went, am I still Greek? Because I thought I'd been so ridiculed at school for so many years, there had to be a reason for it. But then. So this is the power of really, I think where we're gonna go today, maybe. But I. So I had. Imagine how broken I had been with all of the abuse, the abandonment, you know, growing up kind of in government housing in the outskirts of Sydney, very marginalized because my ethnicity, my gender, and then the shame of the abuse and just feeling like not enough. So when I came to faith in Christ and it was, you know, I'd love to say it was a straight journey, but it wasn't. It was, you know, two steps forward, three steps back. There were a lot of people that the Lord brought into my life in his grace and mercy to lead me to himself. But what I will say is, from when I turned 22, someone invited me to a local church in Sydney, Australia, in a warehouse. And from that day, it was the 29th of January, 1989, 6 o', clock, Sunday night service. From that day, I've never looked back. Cause I walked in, I found home and began to really be discipled and went forward. So from that time, 1989, January, and then I find out I'm adopted in 1999. So that would be 10 years, 33, 23, just about so about, you know, for that 10 years. Because I was so broken when I came to faith in Christ, so shame filled and full of anger and, and bitterness and unforgiveness and all the things that come with just the brokenness of my past. I. This is why I love this podcast. This word, like, you know, Jesus Christ saved my soul, but this word saved my mind. Like, it saved my mind. So I am this young girl in my early 20s, totally messed up, encountered Jesus, but I don't know which way is up. I don't know how to think about myself. So I begin and I'm discipled in the word of God. And this is why I'm so big on Bible memorization and because it literally changed my life. Like, did therapy help? Yes. Did friends help? Yes. But nothing helped like internalizing this Word of God in the very marrow of my bones. Like replacing the lies I believe about myself with the truth of what God said about me. There's no greater force on the earth. I'll go to my grave with that passion because I know that. I know that I know. So. And this is, I'm saying this and I'm hoping some this is gonna help someone watching today at that moment, after I said, am I still Greek? But the next thing. So this is 10 years after I'm saved. Daily renewing my. Sorry, I'm like daily renewing my mind and I'm talking Stick. I'm old school, you know, we didn't have these trendy things so I would stick it notes everywhere in my car. I didn't listen to radio, didn't watch television.

[Ari]

It was Bible verses.

[Christine Caine]

Yes, like what God says you are the right, I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, therefore there is now no condemnation. You know, I would just put every remind myself who does God say I am, that I am his workmanship created for good works in Christ Jesus. I mean I would just, and I would declare and decree it day in, in my breaks at work. I would be just, I would just have this. I was one of those old school, you might say obsessed, yes. But I had had enough of the world. I needed to turn it all off. You know what I mean? I needed to turn it all off. And I would just have worship music day and night, renewing my mind and reminding me that I'm a daughter of the king, that I'm a beloved daughter of the king. That I'm created in the image of God. I'm filled with God given purpose and God given destiny. That I'm the head and not the tail above and not beneath. A leader and not a follower. Like I would just say things that God said about me. And for the first year I didn't believe any of it. But I kept saying it until it so internalized that it became, you know, that coming to that point of elevating God's voice above everybody else's voice. So in that moment in my mum's kitchen, so I'm not in church, there's no worship music, there's no, you know, angels dancing on the duvet. It's just me and my mom in the kitchen. But because of all of that, in that moment where I could have unraveled and who knows, you know, still be sort of in a fetal position now. What came out of me because my mum was so crying, I grabbed her hand, I went, mum, it's okay. Because before I was formed in my mother's womb, God knew me. Whose ever womb I was formed in, God knew me. He knitted together my innermost parts. He fashioned all of my days. This is coming out of me in the kitchen. He fashioned all of my days. Before as yet there was one of them. I went, mom, no matter what, I am fearfully and wonderfully made. And that day, every fact that I thought to be true about my life changed. And still I'm talking to you girls today. I don't know the facts surrounding my conception. Was it a One night stand? Was it an ongoing adulterous affair? Was it a rape? I don't know. But although I don't know the facts, there is a force on the planet much higher than the facts. And it's called the truth of the Word of God. And Ephesians 2:10 does not say, I'm the workmanship of a rape or an affair. It says, I'm God's workmanship recreated in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared before I ever got to earth to fulfill. And there's not a demon in hell or a person on earth that can thwart the plans and purposes of God for your life. So about a year later, I got my birth certificate, which is so weird, getting a birth certificate, you know, when you thought you had one. And on that it types, it says child's name. And then typed in is the word unnamed number 2508 of 1966. And that was like a knife in my heart. So you've got this no name, just 2508. And numbers are numbing. Numbers are very dehumanizing, very desensitized. You know, it's so easy to ignore suffering when it's nameless and faceless. So, you know, we rescue the victims of human trafficking. And if I go, there's 50 million slaves in the world today, it's almost like the number's so big you don't think about it. But if I said to you, 2508 of 1966, you kind of think, oh, well, but the minute I say, oh, that's me, it changes everything. So to God, that's not just 50 million statistics in slavery, that's 50 million human beings created in the image of God. There's no statistics to God, there are only people. And so he made sure when I saw that, that no one would ever be a number, no one would ever be a statistic. Nothing is just an issue. It's people created in the image of God. And so when I saw Unnamed, I remember I was weeping because it said unnamed 2508. And then of course, the tape recorder starts in my head. See, Christine, no wonder you're abused. You're not even worth having a name. And it had a social work report from my ballot, an assessment on my biological mum. And in that it said, it is evident that she wants to get this over and done with and return back to work as soon as possible. And so, you know, if I had those documents here, I'd show you. I often show that to people because it's like, so Shocking. Cause it's like you've got unnamed, you've got unwanted, unvalued. It's right there, you know. And as I was bawling, my Bible was sitting there on the living room table. My husband wasn't home yet. And I'm holding this paper and I'm crying. Cause it just says unnamed 2508. And then a document from the Royal Hospital for Women that says unwanted. And I just. In my heart, not anything out loud, but in my heart, I felt the Holy Spirit say to me, open the word to Isaiah 49. 1. So here we've got a whole Bible, 66 books. Why? You know, I'm like bawling and I just. I don't even know why. But I opened it to Isaiah 49. 1. And in there, literally it has the words, from the womb of your mother, I have named your name. So I'm holding in this paper, unnamed 2508. And here, from the womb of your mother, I've named your name. And just in my heart, I felt the Holy Spirit say, it's going to take you as much faith to believe this black and white ink on paper as this black and white ink on paper. And where you put your faith in this moment will determine your destiny. And I may. And I remember dropping that on balling. I dropped unnamed 2508. And I just grabbed this and I just kept saying, I'm bawling. I'm going from the womb of my mother. You have named my name from the womb of my mother. You have. And I mean. I mean, I'm gonna cry now, but. Yes, but it was like something broke like that. And then, you know, who would have known after that I would be, you know, another seven years later, standing at an airport to speak at a conference in Thessaloniki, Greece. And I see these posters of these missing women and children. I just traveled nearly 40 hours. I had just birthed my second child, Sophia. And you know when. When you're 40 and you pop out a kid, I was not asking the Lord for any new thing. I'm like, here I am, Lord. Send them. You know, it's like. But as I was standing there, I went in to look at the little faces of the little children that were missing. And one of the little girls names was Sophia. And I had just, you know, had my Sophia. And I would say, this is when a 21 was birthed. Because I went from looking at someone else's missing child to seeing my own daughter. And when you look, you can look away, but when you See, you can never, ever unsee. It changes everything. And you know, that began what is now 8:21. But wouldn't it be just like God to take an unnamed, unwanted, abused, adopted chick from the back of Sydney, Australia, and say, you know what? I'm not only gonna rescue you, but I'm now gonna use and I'm going to redeem every part of your broken story for you to open the prison doors for those that are bound and set them free. And can I just tell you, just fin, but every time we rescue a young woman or a child and. Or put a trafficker in jail, I think, you know, Satan, you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it. I bet you wish you left me alone. And then, you know, I just, I feel like Joseph in Genesis, chapter 50, verse 20. He looked at his brothers, he said, you meant this for evil against me, but God meant it for this very purpose. And that's why, you know, why am I so passionate when I preach? Because Jesus saved, not only saved, saved my eternal soul for when I die and go to heaven, but gave me a brand new life here on earth. Here on earth today. And because of his redemptive work on the cross and the fact that he rose from the dead and defeated hell and death, we all have an opportunity to have forgiveness for our past and a brand new start today. No other religion offers you this. A brand new start, a redeemed light. And so God had good works for me to do before I ever got to the earth. And I believe a 21's part of that and helping people. But the enemy, when I was still in my mother's womb, tried to steal, kill and destroy. That's what he does. John 10:10 tried to steal, kill and destroy that purpose. When that didn't succeed, you know, he sent someone into my bedroom before I ever got into kindergarten to try to destroy that future. And when that didn't work, you know, God sent his son Jesus to die on a cross and rise again from the dead so that all my brokenness was absorbed by Jesus. And then he filled me with the same spirit that raised him from the dead. And it's like, let's go. Game on. Let's make our life count.

[Ang]

Christine, stop.

[Christine Caine]

Don't stop.

[Ang]

Jesus. The redemptive nature of God, it's not. I mean, only he restores. And, and my favorite thing about God is that he's not just here to like, make things a little better. He wants us to know that it's him. He wants us to, like, he's creative. And he writes beautiful stories. He takes the horrific things that have happened to you. And then he literally is like, let me show Satan what I actually am about. Like, I'm going to use all of the things that happened to you and I'm going to literally redeem through your life. And you save so many people. This is.

[Christine Caine]

That's the gospel. This is what you know, we've got to not buy into the narrative of this generation that says you have to stay a victim of your past or that your history defines your destiny. No, the cross defines your destiny. We've gotta learn to make what Jesus did for us bigger than what anyone did to us.

[Ari]

That's right.

[Christine Caine]

That is where you have a life beyond on the cross. Because so many of us will be on your past. So many of us get stuck. You know, we were talking about. Don't look back. I'm so urgent about this message because I'm just seeing in the last decade so many people stuck. Valid. I'm not minimizing or dismissing trauma, pain, suffering. I mean, I deal with injustice and suffering every day my whole life. Background is that. But I don't wanna just get stuck there. I'm like, there is a life beyond it. I wanna shout it from the mountaintops to go, jesus shed his blood for nothing.

[Ari]

Yeah.

[Christine Caine]

He did not rise from the dead for nothing. We need to preach a full gospel. He rose from the dead. There's resurrection, power. Why are we quiet about this? This is my whole point, is I want to shout it from the rooftops to a generation.

[Ang]

Oh, my gosh. You are so. This is amazing. You're amazing. Thank you for saying that about you. Just, you're never a victim. You don't have to be a victim. And that's not invalidating anything that anybody has gone through. But you're not. You don't have to be a victim.

[Christine Caine]

When you're the final chap. It might be a chapter in your story, but it's not the whole story. Because Jesus, he's the author and the finisher of our faith, not what happened to me. And you know, the devil. I try to tell people, you know, I was abused for a good number, a lot of years. So the enemy already stole at least 10 years of my life. I'm now 59. You know, I'm about to enter my sixth decade of life. He stole 10. Why would I have given him the other 50? Like, why? Just by living in that all the time, I'm like, no chance. I'm not giving him one more second than what he took. And not only that, God has promised to give me back double for my trouble. So I'm like, oh, I'll take it all. Thanks very much. I'll take it all.

[Ang]

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[Christine Caine]

Yeah.

[Ang]

And just brokenness within families and like, how moving forward. I think something Ari and I have experienced is like, yes, we're not a victim to anything that's happened to us. Jesus, the blood of Christ has redeemed, restored, saved, delivered. And you enter into relationships, you enter into friendships, you enter into all these things and you see brokenness come up and just. Yeah. First, let's start with shame. Can you talk to us about shame? And not just. I think a lot of people think shame is just feeling guilty, feeling bad about your past. Oh, I used to have sex and I have shame about that. But shame is something so much deeper. It's a mask. It's. Can you just talk about.

[Christine Caine]

Yeah, because. Because it's the root of your identity. It's like, you think fundamentally there's something wrong with me. So it's. You know, I think I said earlier that guilt. We confuse those two. Guilt is like, I did something wrong. Like, you know, I shouldn't have done that wrong, and I feel guilty about it. It's about your do. Shame is about your. Who. Who I am is wrong. And I think so many people get into patterns of destructive behavior. Not cause they're bad, but they feel bad about themselves. And so that's why, you know, you're trying to numb your pain either through just like one sexual encounter after the other. Cause you're looking for love or somehow some value or significance or security, or you're abusing substances or it could be anything. You're just, you know, trying to climb up a corporate ladder and forsaking everything else. Getting your value from position, title, achievements, accolades. When that thing is driving you, it's really shame that is at the root of that. Because somehow you want something or someone to tell you that you're worth something. And Jesus did that at Calvary. And until you can get to that place where you know what he has done for you is what actually validates you and that there's nothing more you can do. Because while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. He's never gonna love us anymore. Now it's easy to say this. It took me so long to believe this and that 6 inch journey from your head to your heart is the challenge. Believing God. So a lot of us believe a lot of things about God, but we don't truly believe God. You know, first John says God is light and in him there is no darkness. I've got to tell you girls, it took me maybe two years of saying that nearly every day to really believe it, to really believe that God had no dark side. Because every man I met had a dark side. And so for me to get to God is light, and in him there is no darkness. And to work through, well, if there's no darkness in you, why did you let me get abused? Why didn't you stop it? Which would be the thing of so many of us. Why did it go on so long? Why did people would be thinking that now? For all the tragedies in the world, it's the age old issue and it's a real issue. And most of that is like, if I really was worth something, you would have stopped this. If you really did love me, you would have stopped this. And I think so many people listening to this, deep down, it's almost like you don't want to say it out loud, but it is what we think. And you go, I can't really trust you because you would have stopped it. And it took me a long time to get to that place, to go, that was the enemy. That was a fallen world. It is not because you didn't love me, or there's something wrong with me, or I deserved it, or I'm collateral damage in someone else's story. We live in a fallen world. You have no dark side. You are good, and you do good and you weep. And when there was a moment that I went out, you know, in my heart where I could just. I really saw Jesus, like, weeping over the abuse and that he bore that pain on the cross. And because he bore. And Isaiah says he bore our shame on the cross, it took me a while to get there, but when I understood, he bore it so I don't have to carry it. And that is the deal with, you know, we talked about Genesis 3, like, Adam and Eve were naked in the United States. Most important thing, the one thing God said, I'm gonna let you all know. You're not supposed to know what this is.

[Ang]

This is crazy.

[Christine Caine]

And then Genesis 3, 4. Did God really say, Cause if you don't know what he said, you're gonna believe the abusers. The teacher that said, you're dumb, you're stupid. The parent that said, I wish you were never Born the boyfriend or the girlfriend that said, no one could ever love you. You know you're a loser. The agent that said, you're never. You know, you're gonna believe that if you don't know what God says. So do go. And then God's asking us, where are you? Where'd you go? Where's the you that I created? And that' and then to me, the saddest, the third question in Genesis 3, saddest question in the Bible. Because I'm imagining the Lord like crying in the garden, looking at Adam and Eve and going, who told you? Who told you? You. And whose voice did you elevate above my voice? What lie did you believe? And I think to us it's the same thing. Did God really say, where are you? Who told you? Who told you you're dumb? Who told you you're stupid? Who told you you're ugly? Who told you God will never forgive you? Who told you? Who told you? Whose voice did you elevate above the voice of God? And that is what keeps us in shame. You believe that lie. And somewhere in that, we've all got it. Some teacher said to someone, an offhanded comment, you'll never graduate. You'll never. This. Some parent. You think a whole generation has grown up. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Ang]

Exactly.

[Christine Caine]

Ashamed of on you. Shame. And then it just come. I feel part of my call is to declare and decree shame off you in Jesus name to a generation. Because the enemy wants to keep us crippled and paralyzed through something that Jesus died on the cross for. He bore our sin. And shame. He bore it, you know.

[Ari]

Sorry. Listen to you. Proud, serious.

[Ang]

I think that's so crazy. I've never realized that. I've never heard anybody say that. The one thing he said before the fall is, do not be. They knew no shame. He didn't say they didn't know anxiety. They didn't know depression. They didn't know addiction. He said they knew no shame. Shame. So it makes you think. It makes you think it. Does every issue that we all deal with stem from shame?

[Christine Caine]

I just think there's so much of that because shame disrupts and violates the core of who God created. It's saying you are fundamentally flawed. And yet the creation narrative, you've gotta go back Genesis 1:20. In his image, he created. There it is right at the beginning, first chapter of the Bible. We're created in the image of God. We are image bearers of God. We're created to not know shame. So the enemy and the Lie to Eve. He's like, you know, did God really say? She said, well, God said, this is why it's very dangerous to only read the Bible, but not apply the Bible. She knew what God said. She said, God did say, don't eat and eat. She knew exactly what God said, but she didn't do it. So obedience is what keeps us out of shame. So she says, God did say. And he said, and the enemy replies back to her. And he says, oh, no. God doesn't want you to be like him. It's so sad because Eve forgot who she was. She already was. Genesis 1 tells us she was created in the image of God. She forgot she was created. And oftentimes when we act out or it's again, I say it's not. Cause we're bad. We forget who we are. So when you forget you're a daughter of the king, you're gonna act like a daughter of the world.

[Ari]

That's good.

[Christine Caine]

That's all most of the people that do is you forget. Cause if you remember, if you know, my daughters know, you are my daughters. You're a princess. They're not gonna go and act like they're not. But when, if the enemy can make you feel, forget who you are, oh, you're gonna slip into acting like who you're not.

[Ari]

How does he do that?

[Christine Caine]

Well, he just lies to you. I think you just get distracted. You get out of the presence of God, you get. He'll make you feel guilt and shame over a mistake, a failure that we all make. So rather than quickly repenting and being right with God, immediately you start to spiral. And I think that's the biggest thing he's just got everyone sucked in with. You couldn't come back to God. You knew better. You shouldn't have done that. And it takes them down a spiral. Whereas here, she forgot. And then you start to. For you start to even like, yeah, I really am bad. Yeah, I really don't deserve it. I knew better. I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have slept with him. I shouldn't have done this. You know what I mean? And then instead of, it's God's kindness that leads us to repentance quickly. Repenting and getting back on track, changing your mind, turning around, you just end up spiraling until you end up. You know, I think how many people I drove past to get here today that I thought they just don't know who they are. They just have forgotten that they're a son or a daughter or they've Never been told that they are a child of God, created in his image. Because you, you kind of act like who you are.

[Ang]

Yeah.

[Christine Caine]

You know what I mean? There's a spring in your shoulders back, your head's lifted up high.

[Ari]

Yeah.

[Ang]

You know, you kind of act how.

[Christine Caine]

You feel like and how what you truly believe about yourself. And that's where shame, it could be subtle. I mean, externally you could look awesome and be highly successful, but still full of shame. Well, you would not think of the world of that. It's. You're masking something because you don't really want. Because you think if they really got to know me, they would know. And God's like, oh, I really did get to know you and you're awesome. I made you. So, you know, like, it's so. It's such a subtle thing, but it's the thing. Because the result of it, of course what the enemy's after is your faith. It caused Adam and Eve to go into hiding. You know, it was naked and hid. And I was afraid. Fear, shame, hiding. It's the modus operandi that still operates in 20, 20, 25, which is why people have these fractured relationships with God. It's rooted in fear, shame, hiding all the time.

[Ari]

What does your day to day time with Jesus look like in your secret place?

[Christine Caine]

You know, I've had to create it because we travel, we're on the road, you know, with a 21, we've got offices all around the world. And I mean just here, I've come into here from 10 countries, seven weeks, which is our normal kind of rhythm. So it's not like I have a favorite chair. I do have one when I'm home, I sit in that. But I've had to learn to make it work, which is. I'm really glad. I think that's how the Lord's kept it very real in my life. And it's how most people are. See, most people don't have the luxury, truly, of saying, you know, the single mom that's working three jobs to try to get her kids through school or to survive, I'm sure she'd love to be able to get up at the same time and have this extended time with the Lord. And so because of what I do and the people I work with, I want it to be able to work for a girl that's growing up in a township in South Africa or a slum in Brazil. So it's gotta work for everyone. So my thing is wherever you can connect with God. So do I have some Seasons of real extended time. Yes. Part of my vocation is tied into teaching this, but it wouldn't be realistic for me to try to say to people, okay, you need to do what I do. Because that's not even practical. You know, I want the mum that's trying to just survive or the woman that's, you know, on her career path and she's just like. My advice is always, whatever it is, just make sure it's something that you authentically connect, truly connect with God. That you know in your spirit you're breathing, that you've got the word. I've got everything. Like, you know, I've probably got a hundred thousand people that I get. Give them one verse, one paragraph. Because truly, if you could do that every day I'm with you, that I will meditate on this verse. Here's a thought that maybe I'm gonna help you spark your explanation to do this. Because I just think that is awesome. Now, would I love to encourage people to go, maybe stop scrolling for 15 minutes and get in the Bible? Yes. I mean. Cause everybody, most people listening to this, you can make time if you want to make time. So of course I'm doing that mine. And you just literally have to make a decision because I know you do. People say to me, I don't have time. It's not true. Like if I check your time on your phone and you know how it tells you how much time you spent on, how would that compare to your God time? So if you're asking me a measurement where it's got here on your phone, and it will tell me, even when I want to lie to myself, how much headphone time I've had, how much social media time I've had. Oh, gosh, if my God time is not higher than that, I have a problem.

[Ari]

Do you remember you said something about Goliath in a conference? And do you know it stuck in my head and it still repeats in my head. Do you remember what you said in the conference about like, the Goliath is your phone?

[Christine Caine]

Oh, yeah. In the morning. But you've got this here and this here. And this is what. That's what we do.

[Ang]

It's so true.

[Christine Caine]

And all you have do to do, number one, don't put it by your bed. That's probably how you're not gonna pick it up. But if you do. Cause I'm telling you 99 out of 100 times, even when your intention is to pick this thing up first, you're gonna go the gas.

[Ari]

I know, I know.

[Christine Caine]

So you've just gotta do it. So I know everyone can do 10 minutes. So do I like extended time? Yes. So am I gonna sit on a plane? Yes. Cause I travel, you know, I'm in hotel rooms with my husband a lot. So is one of us gonna go downstairs and find a quiet room? Yes. And I'm really blessed. It is worth waiting for the right one, because, you know, my husband's up and in his word before I am.

[Ari]

What do you.

[Christine Caine]

So that's helpful.

[Ari]

What do you say? So I grew up in Massachusetts, and it's like, I just came back from there, and it's really heavy.

[Christine Caine]

Yeah. Oh, definitely.

[Ari]

And so I just. I even talk to younger girls that I try to minister to, and they just have such a hard time being in these environments where it's so godless, where they just. There's no believers, and they're just like. They're just trying to find Jesus, but they're around so much. Depression, negativity.

[Christine Caine]

Yes.

[Ari]

Can you speak to that?

[Christine Caine]

Yeah. I think it's because this is where we have to learn to flourish. This is why I've written my olive tree Bible study, because most of the world is like that. And we are supposed to be exiles in Babylon. That can flourish. So where you're. This is where practices become really important. So. So you have to create your own environment. I think, like when I said when I, you know, first got saved and I shut everything else out, I had to, so I would create. And I only had my bedroom, so that became my. My altar, my haven. In that room, there's only worship music happening. So I create my own environment with the Holy Spirit, with the Lord, and then I would just. And you will be absorbed by the culture if you don't intentionally develop practices to fight it. No one is strong enough. But the Lord's always sent us into dark places. We're supposed to be salt and light in the. In the world. But if you do not stay fueled with the word of God, the spirit of God, you're not going to make it. Like, I don't care who you are. Like, the pull of the world will take you. And whether it's. And it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, sex, drugs, and rock and roll, it can be anxiety, depression, defeat. The children of Israel died in the world because of murmuring, grumbling, complaining, negativity, fear. They died. Didn't even go into their promise. And there's so many Christians. They're not in Egypt anymore, in slavery, but they're not in the promised Land, either. They're just doing laps around Mount Sinai, murmuring, grumbling, complaining. And you go, there's a better life here. Jesus came in John 10:10, that we might have life and life more abundant, but your root system is important. So where are you rooted? And today, thank God, this is where to me, technology is a great supplement. So in areas like the Northeast, where there's not, you know, a major. Like, there are pockets of revival, but there's not a huge population of Christians, what you do is go, okay, things like this podcast, things like that, supplements that keeps you kind of hopefully, you know, fueled. But you have to go, I am going to intentionally go out of my way to find, even if it's a handful of believers that really are. And then I'm into. And that means you're gonna have to not do other stuff, right? I mean, there's no, you know, you think about sisters in countries like Iran or Afghanistan or what they have to go through to be able to even, you know, be a Christian and function like what we call. We often call inconvenience, persecution. So we think it's just so hard. And really what it is, is, no, it's just inconvenient. You are not being persecuted. People that are losing their lives for the faith, that's called persecution. But the fact that you might not be able to go get that latte with your friends, because actually you should probably be sitting in your room with some worship music and a Bible to. That's. That's not persecution. So I just kind of going, okay, in our world there, if you really want to make it work, there's no excuse, actually.

[Ang]

That's right.

[Christine Caine]

Because we have got so many great preaching. Again, I'm saying supplementary to supplement. Find a community that unless you're sort of some out in some country town where really there is nobody, but even then you're gonna have to have great intentionality to go. How do I stay rooted and grounded in the Word? What do I not need to be doing as much as what we're doing, which is reading the Bible, you know, being in worship, being with a community, believers. Equally as important is things that you decide. I just will not do that others may. I won't.

[Ang]

Thank you. That's right.

[Christine Caine]

And I still have that in my life at 59. It's not that I'm even thinking it's bad. It's probably okay for. It's just not for me.

[Ari]

Right.

[Ang]

Period. That has been instrumental in my life, I think, for a long time. I was living as a Christian being like, okay, well, you know, if things aren't necessarily sinful, they're not necessarily bad. I feel like my true awakening was the day that the Lord started speaking. Being like, just because it's not bad doesn't mean you need to do it. Like, these things aren't necessarily sinful, but they're not for you. Yeah, I have something different for you. I have something greater for you. And like, we talk about the secret place so much because everything that we need to operate in the world as someone who is like Christ centered in a world that is so the opposite. You get in the secret place.

[Christine Caine]

There's no other. There's no other place. You don't just get your fuel from. No, no, it doesn't. You're not going to zap yourself into it. This is, this is not Dorothy, Kansas. We're not, you know, like, you've got to actually create it. And again, I do understand the challenge with your generation. You know, like I said, I grew up without an Internet and without social media. So you had to go to the prayer closet. You couldn't scroll through everyone else's life and tell God what you wanted to do, or you couldn't. You know, you had to get in a prayer closet and get a download from heaven about what was happening. You hung onto the Lord. And again, if you want anointing, because it's only the anointing that breaks yokes, chains and bondages, not gifting. Gifting is often about us. And so we're like, how am I going to build my brand or build my platform? Like, you know, when they built the Tower of Babel, it said, come, let us build a name unto ourselves. How did that go for them? Not well. So I don't think the Lord's into that. Ministry is very different. You can only minister when there's an anointing because anointing breaks yokes and chains. But. But anointing only comes from crushing, and crushing only comes from the secret place. So you don't get that in the public place. And the public thing should only ever be an overflow. I could not have done this. This is my 38th year of full time vocational ministry. You don't fluke that. You know what I mean? You do not fluke it. You become a target for the enemy. There are things you have to contend with your own self, stuff that comes externally. So if there was no secret place, there's no real ministry because the fruit that is produced is only produced from that place. Cause you abide in the vine. You know, I have intimacy with my husband that's not there for the whole world to see. So if I'm having intimacy with the Lord, why would all of that be there for the world to see? So if all you're doing is, you know, taking little shots of your Bible with your coffee mug, but you haven't opened your Bible, I don't want to see it on Instagram. Blessed. My most authentic, natural, spontaneous self. I've just had to take it 500 times from the right angle and put the right filter on it and crop it and upload it at the right time. Hashtag blessed. I'm like, are you kidding me right now? I'm like, could you open it rather than post it? So if you're not. If you're posting it more than you're opening it, we've got a problem. And so that's what I think. We're just like, who do you think you're kidding? Who do we all think? And the only one that's happy about that is the enemy. And so to. My deal is that. And here is the other side. When you've really tasted of the secret hiding place, you don't want anything else. I'm like, number one, you don't even want anyone in there but you and the Lord. And number two, you're not. That's not out there for public consumption. My intimate life with my husband is not out there for public. That's ours. So I've got an even deeper place. Obviously not as physical, but a deeper place with the Lord. Why would I ever. I mean, you get the overflow. Not even the. There are things that are just me and the Lord. So what else would I want? That's what keeps me in this thing. That's what keeps it. You know, you don't get to 60, and I've had, you know, quite a visible and public life, as if that's gonna keep me that actually, you know, And I mean, I say this so often. If the spotlight that is on you is greater than the light of Christ that is within you, it will destroy you, which is why a generation is burning. They're like shooting stars, popping up there and then disappearing. Because that thing's going to kill you if the light of Christ in you is not stronger than that.

[Ang]

Wow, I'm so happy you just said that. It's so true. And I think in an age right now where, like, Christian content is being pushed so much and this. We're like, in an era of just Virality that's mistaken for favor. And that's something that I've been sitting with God a lot recently and being like, what's on going the difference between favor and going viral on the Internet. And I even look at like girls gone Bible, which like we didn't know what ministry was. We didn't know what was going on. This was an accident for the most part, you know, truly. And then I think like I've spent the last two years personally, like catch, playing catch up with God, like hours upon hours in the secret place, being like, I actually, I'm very aware that I don't have the character to carry this.

[Christine Caine]

Yeah.

[Ang]

And I will be crushed. And it's felt like it's been crushing me at times. And so in a world I think where everyone is like, God, give me my dreams, make my dreams come true. Like, give it like they should be praying, Lord, make me the type of person, give me the character that can carry the weight of the dreams that.

[Christine Caine]

You'Ve given me, you know, because what if your dream isn't about you? So you know, Joseph had his dream in Genesis 37, but Genesis, you know, I'm saying this because I quoted that verse, which is a life verse for me in Genesis 50:20, when he said to his brothers, you meant this for evil, but God. So he, he had the dream and he thought it was about him, but it was actually for the nation of Israel that he would feed them in a time of famine. But to get there he had to be thrown into a pit. He was sold into slavery. He served as a slave in Pharaoh in Potiphar's court. And then he was falsely accused. Then he went to prison. This is what favor does. And at all times God's favor was on his life. And then the dream is real. Realize when Joseph got to the point that, oh, the dream wasn't about me, that's what happens.

[Ang]

Okay, do you know, okay, this is amazing. Jeremiah 29:11. For I know the plans you have for me, not to harm me, but to prosper me, to give me a hope and a future. My pastor Darren, recently at Garden, he's doing like a Bible study with me and a couple of people and he basically taught me I'm obsessed with like anti prosperity gospel. Like it's just like I feel like it's the message of my life. Darren was telling me that Everybody takes Jeremiah 29:11 out of context and they use it. They don't like know the full context which is. And I don't remember exactly what he said, but I'm sure, you know, where the Lord wasn't speaking like, I'm giving you favor in this situation. He actually was giving a blessing that would skip over the person he was talking to to the next generation. And he basically was talking about how, like, the favor that God is offering is often to, like something people wouldn't choose because it doesn't look like the instant gratification that they're looking for.

[Christine Caine]

No, I mean, a whole generation. I'm thinking, do you understand that we all want to be Joseph second in charge of Egypt? I'm like, you do realize that at 17, he got the dream, and then he was sold into slavery by his. Imagine the betrayal, the pain, the family. I rescued the victims of slavery. So I'm like, imagine that. And he's not let out of prison until he's 30. And then he's not over his brothers. He doesn't see them again until he's 37. So from the dream at 17 to the fulfillment at 37, he has been in a pit and in prison, and it was 20 years, and we forget that. Or David is anointed in, you know, 1st Samuel, chapter 16 to be king over Israel, but he's not appointed until second Samuel, chapter five. It's 20 years and 20 chapters. He was 17 and 37, and most of that time he was being chased by Saul and tried to be killed. So I'm trying to say to everyone, this is why this sort of like, I'm scrolling, man. I want to do. And I'm like, that's not even ministry. That's not even about the Lord. That's about you. Like, we don't use Jesus to do what we want to do.

[Ari]

Right?

[Christine Caine]

That is really just. It is really dangerous because at the core of it is us, not the will and the purpose of God. And so, you know, as I just went round all of these countries and found believers, you know, your age and younger, that they're giving their lives for the gospel. No one will ever know their name. No one will ever. But heaven records it. God knows. And if you don't remember that this is all about an eternal purpose, not temporal gratification. This is not like we building our career path and we're using Jesus as kind of a leverage for my life to go forward. We're laying down our lives, denying ourselves, taking up our cross and following Him. That's the gospel. That's discipleship.

[Ang]

Thank you. I am overwhelmed. I am wrecked right now.

[Ari]

I'm wrecked.

[Ang]

You're amazing. Yeah, I Think. Did you want to ask a question?

[Ari]

Well, yeah. Could you. I just wanted you to talk a little bit about purpose because, you know, we all want purpose and people, they're like, I don't know what to do. What do I. Could you just talk a little bit about purpose? I know this is one of your really good things. Cause you have so many things on Instagram that I have screenshotted that I go back to.

[Christine Caine]

Well, it is, I think, because I've had to fight so hard to understand it. And again, I want to go back to Ephesians 2:10, because to me, that is the purpose verse. So purpose isn't about just what I want to do now. Does God give us gifts and talents? Yes. Are they more than likely going to be woven into the story of our lives? But ultimately our. Our purpose here on earth is to glorify God. That is our purpose. However, that is outworked. But Ephesians 2. 10 says, we are His workmanship. So God. So Ephesians 2:8. We're saved by grace, you know, through faith, not works, lest any man should boast. Of course we are saved by the grace of God through faith. That's it. But it goes on 2A. You're saved by grace, through faith. But then 2:10 says, for we are his work, created in Christ Jesus. So what are we created for? For good works. So, okay, there's that he prepared beforehand in eternity that we should walk out. So you go, okay, I'm saved by grace, through faith, for good works that God prepared. Before I ever got to the planet, there was stuff that God had earmarked with my name on it for me. That's the thing I want to do, whatever that is now, the enemy, like in my life, sent an assignment to try to steal, kill and destroy that. And many times he succeeds. People just never rise above what happens to them. But did God do? I believe that part of the good works that God had beforehand prepared for me in eternity was helping to rescue the victims of human trafficking. Yes. Being married to Nick. Yes. You know, raising my daughters. Yes. Yes. Proclaiming the gospel and seeing people set free and seeing them fulfill their God given purpose. Yes. Does it look different like today? Is that outworked sitting on a podcast with you? Yes. When I was in Bulgaria, was it sitting in the new houses we built for the families that were, you know, literally the Roma communities that were living on the streets and the government bulldozed all their houses down and so we built? Yes. Did it look like that? Yes. When I sit in our aftercare facilities with the victims of human trafficking. Yes. When I'm sitting in the courthouse and we're prosecuting, you know, our lawyers are prosecuting a trafficker to put him away to make sure he won't do it. So what I'm saying is when you get too caught up in the detail of what it needs to look like, you're gonna miss your purpose because your purpose in different seasons, it looks different ways. And I've never really been caught up with the task. I've always been on purpose when nobody knew me. When I'm. If I wasn't, I'd be a Trader Joe's packing shelves, leading the people to Jesus next to me. I'd be in purpose. Like I'm here to lead people to Jesus, to be salt and light. Anybody would tell you that. Like I just, it's. I wake up and it's not, it's not a career. Because if you think of it as a career, you think everything's gotta go up and to the right measured as the world would measure success. So then I'd be obsessed. Obsessed with algorithms. I don't. My team will tell you. I mean I'm not make do I, I wouldn't even know. I'm like my, my things apparently that do the best of the things. When I'm sitting and I feel like I've got a little prophetic word and I'm going to my notes app and I do it. I don't even. And I.

[Ari]

That's my favorite.

[Christine Caine]

Well, I would say all over the world. That's what people say to me. And I laugh. I'm just like, I could be sitting anywhere. I sit in my car and get inspired like in the way and like not driving. Don't panic anyone. I mean like just when I leave here and sit it will. I'm not even thinking about. I'm thinking of ministering to people.

[Ari]

Yeah.

[Christine Caine]

Do you know what I'm saying? Like so will I always have a place? Yes. Because ministry is just needs based. Find a need and meet it. So while more people are trying to. Where they get confused about the purpose thing is they're trying to build a career, not meet a need. So if you think I'm here to meet a need. A need. Do the next right thing in front of you and it will come. Like so at the moment they might see you girls, I would imagine you've inspired a lot of people. But you gotta ask yourself, is that what God called me to do? Or. Hang on, what are they really doing, they're telling people about Jesus. So in my world, could I tell people about Jesus? Yes, you probably could. And will you ever have a podcast that probably not. That does this. Cause that's what you're called to do. So the person watching this, I'm going, but in your life sphere, only you can do that. But when we associate more value and significance, when we confuse visibility with significance, we have a problem. So we think because something is more visible, it's more significant. This is significant. But no more significant than the person that's being faithful and maybe helping their grandmother.

[Ari]

That's right.

[Christine Caine]

Go to the, you know, go to their doctor's appointment every week faithfully.

[Ari]

That's right.

[Christine Caine]

Name of Jesus. Or picking up their kids in the carpool. You know, in carpool after school. Or faithfully being integris at work when everyone else is compromising. Just cause that's not visible doesn't mean it's not significant. Because the thing that everyone forgets, God is not checking my Instagram account today to see how I'm doing.

[Ang]

Thank you, Christine.

[Christine Caine]

My heart is visible to God 2024 7. So's yours. So's the person that doesn't even have a social media account. So when you think just because the world is scanning our public post to determine how they think we're doing privately, the Lord's not doing that. He's fine. He quite knows how we really are. And the Lord said to, you know, Samuel, right from the beginning, when Samuel thought Eliab was God's chosen next king and the Lord had picked David and he said, I don't look at the. At the outside appearance like man does. I look at the heart. And God still does that today in 2025, God's not scrolling anybody's TikTok. TikTok account. TikTok, TikTok. So I run out of TikTok before I can. God is not scrolling. And you can tell I'm not on TikTok, so my kids will be horrified. But you know, he's not looking at our Instagram or TikTok to see how we're doing spiritually.

[Ari]

That's right.

[Ang]

Thank you so much. And I'm so happy that you say that because I think it's so. I feel like so often Ari and I come on here and we're like, guys, you don't need a podcast. You don't need a podcast. Trust me, you don't want to be famous. Trust me, you don't want. And it can probably sound so silly coming from two People with a big podcast sitting here with cameras. But, like, we try so hard to let them know. No, we're telling you, like, the greatest ministry moments that I have had. This is amazing. One of the greatest moments of my life, truly. As I'm sitting here, we're recording an episode. Our amazing producer, who's been with us now for two years, who you just met, who God has been chipping away at his heart for two years. He's sitting in that building booth all this time, and God is just, like, slowly working in his heart. We have an episode, and he literally comes in the room at one point and he's like, I can't believe this. Like, I literally just read what you're talking about this morning. God is speaking to me. So we see him have this, like, experience and encounter where the Lord is like, we're doing all this, sure. But, like, he's working right there. And then everybody leaves. I'm sitting. We record an amazing episode that 100,000 people are going to watch. And that's beautiful and significant, but I get to sit right there with our producer, lead him to the Lord, pray. The tangible presence of God is in this room, and it is like the closest to heaven I've probably ever been in my life. And I remember leaving that day, calling everybody, probably. I know, being like, I've done so many cool things. And still, even after the last two years of our life, where we've been and blessed beyond belief to do the things we do, it's moments like that.

[Christine Caine]

I'm telling you, that's what it comes. And, girls, what you've done. And Mark Sayers wrote a book called Platform or Pillars, which is really fantastic. Most of this generation wants to build a platform. Now. You're being a good steward of it. You're stewarding a platform that God built for you. The only time platform is mentioned in the Bible is in the book of Nehemiah. And the Lord said to me, nehemiah, I have given you a platform. So that's what he's done in your life. So he didn't say, go build one. He said, I've given one. And this is what a generation has to understand. We don't get to go and build. If you build it, you gotta keep it. Here's my thing. If you put yourself there, you gotta keep yourself there. If God put you there, God will keep you there. So stewarding is wisdom. You're stewarding wisely. What God has given you. That is a very different thing. And it's God that Enlarges the place of our territory, not us. I don't. I have, like, a marketing plan. How am I going to God? I put in a structure to be a steward of what God has given me. And I don't want anything outside of what God hasn't given me. I only have grace for my field. I don't have grace for another field. It's not my goal to be the biggest and the best at what. I want to be the most faithful at what God's given me. So there's no biggest or best. There's faithfulness. He doesn't say, you know, well done, good and biggest and best servant. Well done and faithful servant. Everyone can be faithful whether God's given you. He says he gives to each according to his ability. You know, to one, he gives one a talent. To one, he gives two, to one, he gives five. And what you do with what God's given you is what matters. But when you go and try to take what God's never given you, you get into a lot of trouble and your life unravels. And then you think God's let you down, and you end up deconstructing when God never gave it to you in the first place. So it's like, you know, it's. It is a dance to go. How do I be a wise steward and a good steward of what the Lord's given me? And to this day, I don't want anything outside of my field. I want what God's given. I want to be a good steward over that. But other than that, I don't build it. But everyone is called to be a pillar in the house of God. And so what we have. And Marc Sayers argues, this is. We have. Everyone wants to build a platform. No one wants to be a pillar. But if you're a pillar in the house, house of God, you've always got a job to do in the kingdom.

[Ang]

And you always have space.

[Christine Caine]

Wow.

[Ang]

So good.

[Ari]

That's so good, Christine.

[Christine Caine]

That is so. I am.

[Ang]

I'm gonna watch this back, like.

[Christine Caine]

Hilarious.

[Ari]

Is there a time up?

[Ang]

Yeah, we could go a couple more.

[Ari]

Can I just ask you one more? Because it just keeps coming up. How do you know if it's from you or if it's from God?

[Christine Caine]

Yeah, it might be. Thing is, and I don't think you have to freak out too much, because what happens is people get paralyzed. Cause they're like, oh, my gosh, what if it's me? And they end up doing nothing. And it's like 20 years later. So here's my deal. I am a big believer. I'm always gonna encourage everyone. Okay? So, I mean, we've been a bit full on in this episode, but it's true. What I'm saying to everyone is true. And also, I am the biggest encourager that sometimes you just gotta step out to find out. So you just course correct quickly. If you go, oops, that was me, not God, it is okay, don't live in guilt, shame and condemn that you gotta try some. Nobody gets it right all the time. I just say, if you've got a pure heart, you're gonna quickly go, oops, no, sorry, Lord, that really wasn't to me. And I am certainly gonna be your biggest cheerleader on the side of, okay, have a go. I really am that person. It's not like I don't wanna hold people back. You do you have your checks and balances. So you go through your checklist. Okay, do I think this is the Lord? Am I gonna check it with a couple of people that I really trust? So you do that. That's like your basic 101 once. If you haven't done that, I would say start there. But if you. Once you've done that and you're still like, I'm just not sure. I'm like, have a go. And you'll quickly know if there's. If it's the Lord or not.

[Ari]

Right.

[Christine Caine]

And so I. And I think if people are following you, they obviously want the real deal Christianity, so they're probably going to err too much on the side of holding back. So I'm like, have a go. I really want to encourage people to have a go.

[Ang]

How would you describe, like, grace? Like when God has graced you to do something when there's grace on something versus when there's not? Because I think what I've run into is like, I never wanna confuse something being difficult or hard for there not being grace on it.

[Christine Caine]

Totally. And that's a great question, because, you know, the divine enablement, grace is not just forgiveness of sin, but it's a supernatural divine enablement to do what you otherwise could not do. So you have to understand our calling. So this, this is how I know I'm called. Okay, so to do what I'm doing, I can't do it myself, number one, even physically, I'm 59 years old. I'm gonna be. Please send presents. You know, I'm gonna be 59. Me to be able to do. To be on the road in as many countries in a year With a fresh word with, you know, fire. Helping to run a global anti trafficking organization. Doing the things that I do that there's not enough. Naturally, it doesn't really matter how gifted or talented I am to do what I do. I actually need God. I need the Holy Spirit to do what I do. And that's what true calling is. God has made sure woven into our calling is our inability to do our calling without him. So it doesn't matter how gifted you are, how talented you are, how much money you've got, how connected you are, if you're really in the God zone, you haven't got enough to do what you're doing. So this is why I laugh and I go, I go to people I know I shouldn't be doing. You don't have to tell. I shouldn't be doing this. I know I'm not gifted enough, talented enough, resourced enough. I know I'm not. That's why, that's why people will look at my life and go, only God. I know that. Because that's how God gets the glory that there is a life. And how I'm graced is God didn't call me to do this. And for my marriage to be a mess, for my daughters to be a mess. So if you know, you're out of rhythm and you're pushing in your flesh when you're like. So for me, the fact that by God's grace, not perfect, but awesome is 29 years of marriage, my daughters, not perfect, but fantastic. And my best buddies in the world, and they love the Lord and they love us and they want to be around us and the things of God, you know, to me, that's all a really good sign that there's a grace that I was a grace to be a wife and to be a mother, you know, the fact that by and large we've got a healthy team and staff and it's large. So of course there's always. But by and large you go, okay, there's a grace on it where there's a grace on us doing. And then you see the results in like, you know, there are seasons, man, you gotta double down and dig in. There's no doubt about it. But at the end of the day, you just know there's this. I call it like a divine enablement, an oil, the oil of the Holy Spirit, which to me is very important because often people will say, how do you do your life? You know, the big question, marriage, motherhood, ministry, you know, And I'm like, to me, my life Is it's not like these compartments. It's like a wheel. And so you have a wheel and every wheel's got a lot of spokes. If you think of a bike wheel, you know, it's got a lot of spokes and then it's got a hub. So my life's really not complicated. I get up every day and I aim for the hub. The hub is Jesus. But for that hub and that wheel to spin, it needs oil. So while the oil of the Holy Spirit's keeping that thing. Spirit, do you not think then, in my quiet time, as I'm reflecting now, when I drive home for an hour and a half and me and the Lord, I'm in the car, that he's not gonna say, you know, Chris, one of your kids needs this attention. One of your officers needs this thing. So it's like that oil. As long as I'm aiming for Jesus and I've got that oil daily, saturating my life, the thing spins and I will know. You know what? I need a little bit of a time attention here. I need to put a bit more attention here. This is a little bit out of whack here. But it's that divine enablement. I don't know. You can't do this without the Holy Spirit. There's a reason why before Jesus sent birthed the church and sent us out into the world. So you better wait because you're going to need to be dosed in the Holy Ghost big time before you go out and do it.

[Ari]

That's good. That's good.

[Ang]

It's really, that's good. How, how would you tell people right now who are watching how to get filled with the Holy Spirit?

[Christine Caine]

Yeah, I mean I love that question. It's, it's. Here is the biggest, the best I think, think to say in this moment is why don't you. For anyone watching this, has not even thought about this. Start in the most simple of ways and then you can do a whole episode on all of this, but of asking God for the desire to want more. Cause some people even hear this Holy Spirit or they've heard the term Holy Ghost. They're freaking out cause they're thinking of Casper the Ghost. So they're like, oh my gosh, I don't wanna ghost. I don't wanna ghost. But we serve a triune God, Father, Son, Spirit, one God, three parts. You know, the Father, God. And a lot of us are okay, Father God, okay, Jesus the Son. But then we get to the Holy Spirit, we're like, I Don't really know. What is it like Casper the ghost is this like a spirit? And you know, like we're in Hollywood, so like what kind of spirit are we talking about? And so people like are thinking Crystal's meditation. Okay, so I'm going to start with understand that we have one God. He's a triune God, Father, Son and Spirit. And when the church was birthed and the Holy Spirit came and then we, we are to be filled. And Ephesians says be being filled every day with the Spirit of God. I want people to know why there's this languishing. For want of a better phrase, we're not well oiled. We have forgotten this one part of the Trinity because we're a bit scared. We don't understand. And especially if you come from traditional church, you kind of think it's the doxology in the name of the Father, Son, Spirit, you know, that's it. It's like this thing you add on to the end. But he's a person. He is my best friend. He's like, you're seeing the glint in my eye. Cause now it's like when you like, let's talk about him, you know, I wake up in my morning with Good morning Holy Spirit. He's like my. And so I as a start to your viewers is saying, okay, well you're not Casper the Ghost and you're not this freak out. Okay, help me want more of you. I think that's the start. I started with you know, 1990 with the phrase and you know, we talk about Michael and Jess Koulianis and Jess's dad wrote a book Good Morning Holy Spirit. And it was the start for me with Good morning Holy Spirit. And it was the beginning of a relationship that here I am 30 something years later with my best friend, the Holy Spirit of God and my divine enablement and everything from I love you Holy Spirit to help me, Holy Spirit, I need you, Holy Spirit. It's. It's my first thing.

[Ang]

Yeah, the Holy Spirit is. I, yeah, I, I grew up in like a Catholic. Both of us grew up in a Catholic kind of upbringing. And I didn't know who the Holy Spirit was whatsoever. My mom and I, I got sober when I was 23 and my mom has always loved Jesus. And my mom found herself like she would just meet people and go to meetings and I'd go with her and we'd go to these like African prophet meetings, these like Pakistani prophet meetings. Like we're Catholic, like we don't know.

[Christine Caine]

What did you Grow up from.

[Ang]

So I'm Albanian.

[Christine Caine]

Okay.

[Ang]

Yeah.

[Christine Caine]

My mom. We're cousins. Albania and Greece.

[Ang]

No, we're this.

[Christine Caine]

You have to come. Cause Thessaloniki is where we started a 21 and we had so many Albanian girls anyway.

[Ang]

I want to go so badly.

[Christine Caine]

No, I know she was Albanian.

[Ang]

I know she was.

[Christine Caine]

I'm sorry, everyone. We're having a moment. I didn't know.

[Ang]

Yeah, so I grew up.

[Christine Caine]

Oh, I love you even more now.

[Ang]

My mentor, his name is Socrates. He's a Greek man. He's Greek Orthodox. You have to meet him. He like changed my life. He discipled me and led me to Jesus. Prayed for me to get sober all these months. Like, crazy story. Where was I? Oh, yeah. So my mom and I think we literally get like. We'd watch people like get slain in the spirit lay out. We had no idea what we were.

[Christine Caine]

Saying that happened at mess on Sunday.

[Ang]

And we were like so open to it and we were never afraid, like. And so, yeah, we're just. We like. My spiritual formation was this like just seeing powerful moves of God and just seeing the Holy Spirit disrupt a room and like, it looks kind of weird sometimes and it doesn't make any sense. And. Yeah, I think we just try so hard to let people know. The Holy Spirit is a person who speaks. And the whole point is that we talk to him all day long. Literally all day long. That's what relationship with Jesus is. It's communing fellowship with the Holy Spirit all day. I. What has changed my life is like literally just asking the Holy Spirit questions and he'll respond somehow. He probably drops it into my spirit. He. At some point he's going to give me the answer, but I'll just ask him questions all day. And we always try to tell people. The Holy Spirit loves to talk about. About Jesus.

[Christine Caine]

Yes, he does.

[Ang]

Come on, ask him questions about Jesus and he'll answer.

[Christine Caine]

Ask him when. It's often so hard to understand this book. So ask him, say I still do to this day. I go holy before I prepare any sermon and read it. I'm like, holy Spirit, you gotta help me to understand. What is it that you're saying? He guides us into all truth. He shows us all things. He's our comforter. He's our helper. I mean, once, once you meet Holy Spirit.

[Ang]

So good.

[Christine Caine]

That's it.

[Ang]

Yes, I. I love it.

[Ari]

I just love you.

[Ang]

You're amazing.

[Christine Caine]

You know, I just want to say today that the same Jesus that stepped into the life of this unnamed, unwanted, abused, adopted girl from the Back of Sydney, Australia. That same Jesus is right here, right now, and he is able to give you forgiveness for all of your past, a brand new life today, and a hope for the future. You know, maybe you just tuned in, you were looking for something else and you accidentally tuned in. You're not here by accident. You're here in the divine timing, plan and purpose of God. He drew you to this program because he loves you. You were created by God for a relationship with God. And it's Jesus that connects us to God. And it's Jesus that connects us to the grace of God. Maybe you once walked with God, but if you're honest, today, you've been away from him, cold in your heart, maybe even backslidden. Today, I want to encourage you, stop running from him, come home to him. Make your peace with him, and put Jesus Christ first in your life. I'm gonna pray a prayer. And He. If you. If you want to say these words after Me, to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, I just want you to say them. Dear Jesus, I'm sorry that I've been living my life my own way and ignoring you. I'm sorry that I've sinned against yout. And I ask today that yout would forgive me for all of my sins. That yout would give me a fresh start today. And I hope for this future. I want to be a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ every single day for the rest of my life. Jesus, I receive your forgiveness. I receive your love. I receive your grace. Thank you. Amen.

[Ang]

Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. If you just gave your life to Jesus, for the very first time, we want to say congratulations. Love you. And we're so happy that you're here. Thank you, Christine.

[Christine Caine]

I love you girls. Seriously. I'm not even joking. Awesome.

[Ari]

Thank you.

[Ang]

What a beautiful, beautiful episode. All right, guys. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May he make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. May he turn his face towards you and give you peace.

[Ari]

Shalom.

[Ang]

Shalom.

[Christine Caine]

Shalom. Amen and amen.

[Ari]

Amen and amen.