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Spiritual Warfare w/ Jonathan Pokluda | Girls Gone Bible
01:01:30
Hiiiii GGB:) this week's episode is with the incredible pastor, author, and preacher Jonathan Pokluda. Today, we dive into his new book, Your Story Has a Villain, which focuses on spiritual warfare. Guys, Satan has waged a war against...
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- [00:00]
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- [01:28]
Ange
Hi, I'm Ange.
- [01:29]
Ari
And I'm Ari.
- [01:30]
Ange
And this is Girls Gone Bible. And today we have a two time GGB all star. We have Jonathan Paluda.
- [01:38]
Jonathan Paluda
Let's go.
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Ange
And we're so excited.
- [01:40]
Jonathan Paluda
I was driving from San Diego to la, driving up the one and I'm going to Santa Monica and that's where I was supposed to stay. And I'm talking to a pastor friend. I'm like, hey. He's like, where are you? I was like, I'm headed to Santa Monica. He's like, no you're not. It's on fire. I was like, what? And so it's devastating. I talked to another pastor friend who lives over there. They couldn't, they didn't stay at their house last night. And they're like congregation and everything. And I'm just like praying for the city, man. It's really bad talking about spiritual warfare.
- [02:06]
Ange
I know, it is really, really sad. I woke up this morning and I'm driving on Sunset and the whole sky is dark at 8am and I'm like, this is actually the end times. Like this is what the Bible talks About. Do you agree? Is that too much for the end times?
- [02:21]
Jonathan Paluda
We're talking about end times. We are absolutely end times. And here's what I'm certain of, is today we're close to it than we were yesterday.
- [02:27]
Ange
Jonathan, thank you so much for that.
- [02:28]
Jonathan Paluda
It's a joy, guys. Thank you. I'm so proud of y'all. So proud of y'all. It's amazing.
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Ari
Just.
- [02:33]
Jonathan Paluda
It's the favor that God has poured out on your lives and your love for him. And you're like, you're discipling people. And I love the way that you guys have been so honest, transparent, struggled out loud. You. You hold his. You hold his word in high regard. And, I mean, it's. It's. He's using you. It's incredible to watch.
- [02:52]
Ari
Thank you so much.
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Ange
That is really kind. Thank you.
- [02:54]
Jonathan Paluda
That's true.
- [02:55]
Ange
I know. We really do struggle out loud. We.
- [02:58]
Jonathan Paluda
And that's what people need, I'm telling you. And this is the whole next generation. It's just like they want. They don't want, like, this facade, you know, polished version of Christianity. It's like they want something real. So.
- [03:10]
Ange
Well, we just talked about. Because you just spoke at Passion this year, and the first time I ever saw you or heard about you was@passion 2024. And I remember it's like this weekend of conferences of, you know, talks and pastors and preachers speaking. And the one that stood out to me the most was yours. Your talk and your message that you gave, because you literally, out the gate, you were like, I've struggled with this, this, this, and this long list. It was the most. It was the most relatable. Like, that's what breaks chains. Honesty and authenticity. And just like being like, I went through what you went through, this is not just a cakewalk for any of us. It was life changing.
- [03:50]
Jonathan Paluda
Well, there's a verse in Revelation, it says, we trample over the enemy by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And you read that, and you're like, wow, the way that we defeat the enemy. So the blood of the lamb, that's the work of Jesus, his death and resurrection, for the forgiveness of our sins. But then the word of our testimony, and I think about it like this. It's like. It's like you're in a cage. And so whether it's a cage of alcoholism, a cage of sexual addiction, cage of pornography, you're cutting yourself, you look in the mirror, you hate what you see, you're starving yourself. Satan loves all of that. And so it's like you're in a cage. And Jesus comes and he unlocks that cage, and he pulls the door open, right? And he says, come out. Like, come out, my child. Like, come out, my dear. Like, come out. And as you walk out, he hands you the key, and he says, here you go. This you can set people free. And that key is your story. And you look up and there's all these people in cages, all these people in jail cells. And you realize, like, what. What they need is for me to share my story of. Of the way that Jesus delivered me, the way that Jesus saved me, the way that he set me free. And then as I share my story with them, they go, wow, me too. Like, I thought I could never say that out loud. I thought I could never talk about that. But as you talk about it, it emboldens me, it encourages me. And now I walk in freedom. And then they share their story. And that's where it spreads.
- [05:08]
Ari
Makes the hard times worth it, huh?
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Jonathan Paluda
Yeah. I mean, well, it redeems them. And that's what in Genesis 50:20, you know, Joseph, he says, what. What the enemy's meant for evil, God uses for my good. Romans 8:28. All things work together for the good of those who love him, who've been called according to his purpose. God is working all things together for those who love him, who've been called according to his purpose. And so if we take our mess and we bring it to the Lord, he makes it our message and even our ministry. You know, it's like, hey, God, here's what I have. Like, he doesn't need anything, right? We have nothing to offer him. But you're like, here's my mess, God. He goes, I'll work with that.
- [05:46]
Ange
You know, that's my favorite thing about him. My favorite thing about him is that he doesn't need any of us. He could literally snap his fingers and heal everybody, do all that he needs to do, but from the beginning of time, he wants to do it with us. Like, he purposefully uses us to get to each other. When you pray a prayer, usually he doesn't. Sometimes he'll just answer it and fix the situation. Usually he sends you somebody that as an answered prayer. Like, I love that he works through us and with us for everything.
- [06:14]
Ari
Ggb. We are on the Girl Gone Bible Live tour. It is so exciting to be with you guys. Go to girlsgone bible.com tour to get your tickets. We cannot wait to be with you in person. So, as you guys know, we have GGB plus. It is been one of the biggest blessings this year starting GGB plus because it gives us a chance to really just go so intimate and deep with you guys. Talk about things that we typically can't really share on this platform. So it is just. It's. So this is exactly what we wanted. We wanted something where we can really go deep and really talk about the nitty gritty stuff. You can sign up@girlsgonebible.com plus let's talk about this book.
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Ange
We love talking about spiritual warfare on this podcast.
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Jonathan Paluda
That's what it felt like. Driving. Driving on the freeway. I'm like, oh, man. Because I was supposed to do 12 podcasts tomorrow, all canceled. And I'm like, and. And listen, that's. That's silly for me to talk about a, you know, podcast canceled because there's people lost their homes. Who knows, you know what else? But I saw one video of somebody trapped inside their house. I'm just like, praying for them last night. It's crazy town, so.
- [07:26]
Ange
No, but I mean, he definitely gets many birds with one stone.
- [07:29]
Jonathan Paluda
That's true.
- [07:30]
Ange
Like 100. Yeah. Anytime. Any you. I wish we could call you and tell you all the things. Actually, we're going to call you and Monica sometimes and talk to you guys and get prayer from you guys. And every time we get on a plane to go on tour.
- [07:45]
Jonathan Paluda
Oh, man, it's rough air. I'm telling you, you gotta bind. I'm like, and I pray different after that book. I pray different because, like, so Jenny and I, Jenny Allen and I have been going around to universities with our friend Tanya Pruitt, and. And it's like, we get on that plane and. And we know that we're going to share the gospel to, you know, thousands and thousands of college students who are like, lord, we know the enemy doesn't want us to get there. And it's. It's crazy. And so can he. You know, what can he do? That's one of the things, as I was thinking about the book is like, what are the limitations of Satan, Right? Because I was thinking, like, if you. If you're going to go to church, like, let's just say you're getting your life. You're at that transition where you're like, all right, I'm going to get my life in order. You know, we've all been there where you're like, all right, I'm doing it. I'm going to find a church. I'm going to go there. You know, I'm going To get sober, I'm going to do the thing. And you go and you wake up and you get dressed. You're like, I'm really doing it. You get in your car and you turn the key and it goes click, click, click, click, click. Like, battery's dead, right? And you're like, oh, man. Hashtag spiritual warfare. Well, I'm like, what can Satan do? Like, did he, like, did he take out your battery, take out your alternator? Like, leave your light on? Did he have to pop the hood to do it? Like, can they actually do that?
- [09:00]
Ange
Yeah. What?
- [09:01]
Jonathan Paluda
And so that. That question really sent me on the journey of writing this book youk story as a villain, which is the answer, I mean, is Job is a textbook case study of what Satan could do. He can start fires. He can steal, kill, and destroy. John 10:10. He can make you sick. He can, you know, do anything. Anything. And so that kind of stirs up fear. 2 Corinthians, chapter 4, verse 4, says, he is like. If you ask a bunch of Christians, who's the God of this world? If I asked an arena like passion or, you know, unite, who's the God of this world? You know, they're going to say, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Yahweh, Jehovah, Jesus, you know? Second Corinthians 4, verse 4 says, the God of this world is Satan. That's what the Bible says. Satan that. That he has authority here. And so the answer to the question, what can he do? Is anything God allows him to do. Which then begs another question was like, why would God allow him to do anything? There's a testing nature of our faith in this broken world where things are not as they're supposed to be. And so that one day we're going to be in a place where there's no anxiety, there's no flu, there's no cancer, there's no breakups, there's no heartbreak, there's no sadness, there's no depression. But today, in this broken world, all of those things exist, and they're opportunities for us to use our faith. And in fact, Jesus says to Peter, satan has asked me to sift you like wheat. And he goes, so I. Because I'd be like, jesus, just tell him no. Just say no. Like, if he asked you, just say no, you can't mess with Peter or JP Angela. But he said, so I'm going to pray for you that your faith would increase.
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Ange
Yeah.
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Jonathan Paluda
And so I think that's like, what does it look like for us to live with faith and fires and Cold and, you know, sickness and heartbreak and all your grief, all those things are opportunities to exercise our faith.
- [10:59]
Ange
One of my favorite things that you write, I think it was in the. It was before you even started. What is this? Those things called in the book? The prelog. Yeah.
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Ari
You.
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Ange
You said something along the lines of, like, you are not. You don't have letters next to your name. You don't have a PhD, but you do have, you know, many years of experience being a pastor. And what you've noticed is patterns. Like the. The enemy, he's. He's clever, he's witty, he schemes, but he has patterns. And so when you're aware of his patterns, there's that.
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Jonathan Paluda
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So much of ministry is pattern recognition.
- [11:35]
Ange
Yeah.
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Jonathan Paluda
And it's. I've got like four guys right now being morons, you know, I mean, just. And it's. It's interesting. Some on one phone call and the next, you know, somebody else is calling me, and they're. They've been unfaithful. There's addiction, adultery, and. And it. It's. You just see the same pattern. And I'm like, bro. They're like, well, you know, you don't understand how I feel. I'm like, I understand exact you feel. Because it's like this. As soon as I hang out with you, I'm going to call, you know, John back, and he's going to tell me that I don't understand how he feels. And then I'm going to call Mark back. I'm making up these names, mark back, and then he's going to tell me that I don't understand how he feels. When you all understand, you all feel the same way, which is, hey, I think this is worth it. And I'm telling you, it's not worth it. It's going to feel really great for about six months. And then six months, reality is going to settle in. The shame's going to overwhelm you. You're going to see the death and destruction. And so, yeah, the pattern is the same in Genesis, chapter three, the Garden of Eden. It's like, look at the fruit. It appeals to the eye, it tastes good, and it offers you everything. And it's the same pattern that Lucifer who fell from heaven, Satan, who was an angel created by God. So the question is, you know, did God create evil? No, God created Satan good as an angel for his glory. And he fell and he said, hey, I don't want to worship you as God. I want to be God. And God said, okay, well, we're going to send you to Earth. Let's see what kind of go can be. And so here he is with authority over this world. But that same spirit, we call it pride, is a satanic spirit, a spirit of selfishness, a spirit of vanity, a spirit of. Of, hey, I want to get mine. I want to live for me. And when we operate that in that it. We're operating by a satanic spirit. In fact, the mantra of the Satanic church is do as thy will. I don't know if you knew that. It's like, do whatever you want. That's the mantra of the Satanic church. And so it's like, that's what Satan receives as worship is selfishness as well.
- [13:41]
Ari
I love how you simplified heaven and hell. Can you talk about that? Because when I actually read that, I was like, wow, if that doesn't make somebody act right. Yeah, because we think of hell as just this burning flames with a devil with horns. You know, can you just talk about what you wrote in there? Because I loved it for sure.
- [14:00]
Jonathan Paluda
Thanks for saying that. And I think what I've learned is different people think of hell in different ways. Like, some, especially here, you'll hear a lot of like, oh, it's a party. Like, oh, I'm going to hell. You know, drug, sex and rock and roll.
- [14:14]
Ange
Exactly.
- [14:15]
Jonathan Paluda
No, there's no drugs in hell. There's nothing to numb your pain in hell. There's. It is a place. And you're like, well, why? Why would God create hell? God created hell for Satan. It's a place created for Satan. He's going to be thrown into the lake of fire. That's where he's going to be forever. And it is just a place of suffering. And in fact, there's only one thing that you can do is you pull out your to do list. You know, it's like, these are the things I have to do today. I need to go to the grocery store. I've got to go pick that up. I've got to record that podcast. Like, you have your to do list. There's only one to do item in hell to suffer for your sins forever. Not 100 years, not 100,000 years, not 100 billion years. Not, you know, if forever and ever and ever. And so the only person who doesn't have to go to hell is a person whose sins have been paid for. It's not a. It's not like, good person. It's not like good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. You know, the scripture tells us There is no. There is no one good. Not even one. And so the only person who doesn't go to hell is the one whose sins have been paid for. You can think about it like this. Every sin will be paid for either in hell or on the cross. And you get to choose. You can say, I want to pay for my sins, or you can say, I believe that Jesus Christ paid for my sins on the cross. And so, yeah, there's a story in there about being in the Grand Caymans and there's a place there called Hell. And they're like, hey, welcome to hell. How the hell are you? And I was just like, man, what a mockery of what it actually is. That is the most devastating, like the worst things that you can think about here on earth. It's that amplified.
- [15:59]
Ange
Yeah, it just, it's so interesting the way that Satan is able to pervert things in a way that seems so subtle. Like nothing. So much of what he does doesn't even seem inherently evil. Like he has a way to twist things to be like we're joking about the most, the con. Like the worst thing that will ever happen to you, going to hell. And then we're gonna put like a fun twist on it.
- [16:23]
Jonathan Paluda
That's what he does. Well, you just like I talk about it in there, like switching price tags. I was misdirected youth, you know, and my friends would steal things and I couldn't steal in the traditional way, but I would switch price tags. I would take something that was cheap and I'd put the price tag on something that was expensive, and I would go through the checkout line and. And I would pay something for it, but it's still stealing. Very much so. And, And Satan does that. He takes things that are cheap and he makes them look expensive, and he takes things of infinite value and glory and worth and he makes them look cheap.
- [16:55]
Ari
Yeah.
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Jonathan Paluda
And so it's, you know, we pursue the fleeting pleasures of this world. We. We seek the shortcuts of masturbation, one night stands, and those kinds of things. When, when he's offering us. When God is offering us eternal glory and joy forevermore with him. And yet we, we're like, no, we want this. We don't want the, you know, the, the filet mignon dinner with, you know, paired with the perfect glass of wine or whatever that is. We want, you know, the nerds, Gummy clusters, you know, the sugary.
- [17:32]
Ari
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- [21:32]
Ange
Really quickly wanted to read this from your introduction. It says if the devil were going to take you out, how would he do it? Would it be lust leading to an affair? Would it be greed leading you to cut corners to get ahead? Would it be pride so you become so self reliant that you push away those who love you most? Or maybe the enemy would play head games with you. Maybe he would get you thinking about all that you don't have while comparing yourself to others. Maybe he would send you into a deep dark depression or cause you to be an anxious over controlling mess. How would the Evil One rule you? Which I think is so interesting because it's so specific in particular to every person. How would the Evil one ruin you? I find it interesting that we believe there is a world full of dark opposition and we're content knowing very little about it or how it works. So take a minute to answer this question. I'd be curious to know how your answer changes by the time you finish this book. And one thing that I'm so passionate about is encouraging people to recognize their own weaknesses and their own issues. Because like we said, there's patterns and there's nothing new under the sun. He's going to hit you with the same thing every single time. So, like becoming aware of where is your area.
- [22:43]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah.
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Ange
That the devil, like it's his playground.
- [22:45]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah.
- [22:45]
Ange
Right.
- [22:46]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah. What do you think it is for you guys?
- [22:48]
Ari
Mine has always been my thoughts, my self worth. Never thinking I'm good enough. I'm always dwelling and self blaming. So that's been my biggest battle in my journey.
- [22:59]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah.
- [22:59]
Ari
Yeah.
- [23:00]
Jonathan Paluda
Which is crazy because, I mean, I don't mean to invalidate your struggles when I say it's crazy, but I think there's people watching that are going to be like, wow, if I could only be like Ari, you know, then I would just have so much self worth and if I could only look like Ari and talk like Ari and have the, you know, one of the biggest podcasts in the world, then I would be so content. And it's just, it's not there. And you know, Brad Pitt said that, Russell Brand said that, Jim Carrey said that, Tom Brady said that. I mean, the people at the very height of everything said there has to be something more. Like, there has to be something more. We all have this eternity sized hole in our heart. He says in Ecclesiastes, I've set eternity in your heart. Where we're at right now, I mean, we're recording this. Some of the most, the richest, most famous, most beautiful people with the nicest cars in the biggest houses on the, on the nicest property in the United States of America are like a nine iron from us, a stone's throw from us. And it's one of the most like, highest sales of antidepressants in anywhere in the country. And if that doesn't say, hey, that's not it. You know, do not love the world or things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. I mean, we are. There's walking dead people all around us right now who are just the shells of people desperate for the Holy Spirit to fill them.
- [24:32]
Ange
So true. If they had any idea. They had any idea. Yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry.
- [24:42]
Jonathan Paluda
She's like, oh, I thought I got to skip, you know. She's like, oh, I didn't know. You're not gonna make me say it. She's like, let me read some more.
- [24:53]
Ari
What's yours here?
- [24:55]
Ange
Mine is definitely, probably, definitely, probably mine is going to be fear and anxiety and just probably how I relate to other people. Like, it's usually relationally I think I have a major fear of abandonment that shows up in every area of my life. And it Results in like my issues, like, result in the opposite symptom, like my fear. Like all of my fears result in me being like overly strong, overly courageous. But really there's like a deep rooted sense of just fear and probably a little bit of self worth. And relationally that's where I find my biggest issues. Just a lot of anxiety, fear of abandonment, stuff like that.
- [25:38]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah. And so, and for me it would be, I mean, there's, you know, lots of things totally lost, materialism, greed. But I think the one that I'm probably most susceptible to is revenge, like vengeance. Like, it's like if I did, if I hurt somebody and they're mad at me, like, that's on, that's on me. And I want to make that right. But sometimes I feel like people will do things that are unjust, like unfair or say something about my child or something like that. And I just feel this, like that's not of the spirit of God. And, and I just think about, you know, if I didn't get a good night's sleep that night and things aren't going my way and then somebody, you know, says something dumb or mean or whatever that is, just being provoked to anger. And so if we go back around like yours was. How did you say it again?
- [26:30]
Ari
I get attacked in the mind a lot with my self worth and yeah, just not feeling good enough.
- [26:36]
Jonathan Paluda
So if we run the offense of Ephesians 6, which, you know, it says, put on the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the feet fitted with the gospel, the shield of faith, the. The helmet of salvation, the, the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. And so that sword being the, the offensive weapon. And it says, the T says to pray, like pray constantly. And so if we go to that formula and we start to combat, you know, some of those things, you know, I could say to you would. Well, Genesis 2 says that you've been created in the image of God. The reason my iPhone has worth is because it's an Apple iPhone. It's not generic, it has a brand. It was created by someone intentionally and, and so have you. He says the things that he started in you in Philippians, he says he's going to carry out to completion. And he says, do not conform. Romans 12. Now do not conform any longer to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And then Colossians, he says to set your mind on the things above. And so there's a, there's a. All wars and battles are fought over real estate. And there's a spiritual war being fought over the real estate of your mind, because your thoughts feed your heart and your heart takes you places. Proverbs 4:23. Above all else, guard your heart, for is the wellspring of life. Everything you need do flows from it. And so he's trying to. The enemy is trying to get you to think lowly of yourself rather than the truth that you are loved by the most High God who has numbered your days and has a plan and a purpose for your life. And he's using you in spite of you. He says in 1 Corinthians 12, his grace is sufficient. His power is made perfect in your weakness. And so that like that. Where you are weak, he is strong and he's using you in those ways. And so how did you say yours?
- [28:30]
Ange
Just like a deep rooted sense of fear, fear of abandonment. It's like a lot of childhood stuff.
- [28:37]
Jonathan Paluda
Jesus in Matthew 4 is tempted by Satan himself. I'll say this right here. We always say Satan, like, Satan's after me. Satan's never been anywhere near us, probably. He's not omnipresent. And so it's kind of like if I said Vladimir Putin is invading Ukraine. Well, it's not Vladimir Putin. It's a war, it's soldiers. He's never fired a gun or fired a missile. He's sitting safely in an office, protected. Satan is probably somewhere where wars are being fought and people of great power. And so we probably have some snaggletooth demon attached to us, our family, an area. Right? Yeah, a lower level soldier, if you will. And so, you know, as we think about that. So say it. I want to hear your words.
- [29:27]
Ange
Fear of abandonment, childhood wounds.
- [29:29]
Jonathan Paluda
And so when Jesus is tempted by Satan himself, it's actually Satan this time. He responds four times with memory verses from Deuteronomy. Like, that's like Satan gives him a lie and he goes, no, here's the truth. Satan gives him another lie and he goes, no, here's another truth from Deuteronomy. Satan gives him another lie. He goes, no, here's another truth from Deuteronomy. Like, what if the only, our only hope of overcoming the enemy today is a memory verse from Deuteronomy? You know, I'm like, but for you I might go Deuteronomy 31:6. He says he will never leave you nor forsake you. So you're never alone, like your entire life, because you have God, because you are now his adopted child, his daughter, that wherever you go, he's going to be with you. And he loves you. Right. For while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. For God so loved the world, for God so loved Angela that he gave his only begotten Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish. And so he says that perfect love casts out fear. And whenever we're afraid, we can look at the situation and we can say, all right, is what I am fearful of sin? Like, is it. Is it. Is this. Is there a. Is there something here that I would be choosing to do that sin? And if it's not sin, then Romans 8 tells us, if God is for us, who can be against us? And so if it's not sin, then I'm charging forward. And it doesn't matter how it ends up, because I don't have to determine obedience by the outcome. I just. I just want to walk in that faithfulness. And so there's not a minute, there's not a second of your life that you will ever be afraid. And that's just renewing our hearts and our minds around the truth of God, which is spiritual warfare. Like, that's how you. You defeat the enemy. According to Ephesians 6 and according to Jesus in Matthew 4.
- [31:17]
Ange
I think I really needed that. Thank you so much. It's true that ministered with my heart.
- [31:21]
Jonathan Paluda
It's the promises of God.
- [31:23]
Ange
Yeah.
- [31:24]
Ari
I feel like since starting ministry, I'm just going to be honest. I do good with combating with the word of God. I've been doing really good with that. But I feel like there's been a severe attack on my joy. Like, I feel so numb. I feel like I have no joy. And I don't want to be a victim because I have such a good life. I'm healthy. And so I think that. But I'm like, I. Why? I can't even talk about it, but I do. I feel a lack of joy and numbness.
- [31:57]
Ange
Yeah.
- [31:57]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah. Kind of a weird place to go on the air. But when I prayed beforehand, you know, I. I sensed that. And I don't know if you heard, but I was like, lord, I just. I pray for a spirit of joy to overwhelm them. And. And I was. I was literally thinking about that. I'm not. And I'm not trying to. It's. It's the Lord, right? That's not a person. It's not me. I'm not trying to be a. I'm a prophet kind of thing. It's just like sometimes the Lord in his kindness will do that, you know? For the encouragement of people. When the scripture talks about joy, it, it, it's a really strange thing in that the only joy that we know pre salvation is tied to our circumstance. So it's like Christmas morning you might open presents and so you experience joy. Hey, tomorrow we're going to go to the beach. You know, you experience joy. Hey, you know, we're going to do something that you want to do. And so you experience joy. And your joy is tied to the circumstance. But then the scripture says, you know, be joyful in all circumstances. You know, pray without ceasing, says even find joy in suffering. It's like, how can we do that? Have you ever. What's your favorite? If you could go anywhere, where would you want to go? Either back to somewhere or somewhere. So, Hawaii. What? Island? Island.
- [33:12]
Ari
Maui.
- [33:13]
Jonathan Paluda
Okay, Maui. And so if I told you right now, Ari, if I said, hey, tomorrow, we've cleared your calendar for a week and you're you. We've put. Your best friends are going to be on a plane and we're sending you to Maui. And we. It's the, it's the grand walaya. It's where you're going to the nicest. You're going to a nice place right there on the beach. The weather there is perfect, by the way. All your responsibilities here are covered. And you're just going to have of, you know, a week vacation with some of your closest friends and in Hawaii, have a blast. Would, Would, would you experience joy in that? Like, would that feel like, oh, man, that's exciting?
- [33:53]
Ari
I think for a fleeting moment.
- [33:54]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah. So. Because it's like, because there. Because of that reality. Right. I think what the scripture is telling us is Hawaii, but something. It's hard to even quantify but like, infinitely better than Hawaii is right in front of you forever and ever and ever and ever. And so when you see the homeless man on the street, when you get overwhelmed by your schedule, when you feel like you're just going through the motions, when God feels far, you kind of lift your head up and you're like, oh, I'm going to Hawaii. Because for me, I was in the corporate world and before, you know, if I was going on vacation, it's like nothing could get me down because I'm going on vacation. Be like, oh, hey, the copy machine's on fire. It's like, I'm going on vacation. You know, hey, that deal fell through. It was like, yeah, so what? Going on vacation tomorrow, like, don't bother me. I'm going on vacation. And for the Follower of Jesus. Like we're all about to go on an eternal vacation. And all these problems here, like problems with parents, problems with relationships, problems with roommates, problems with neighbors, you know, bills, all those things, all of those are square, like the cold, right? All of those are going to get squared away and, and forever and ever and ever and ever. And we have to renew our mind around that reality. It's the only way I know how to endure the sufferings of this world. Because, man, there's. It's. The world's hard. It'll kick you in the face. I don't care how much money you have in the bank. I don't care how much influence you have, how popular you are. I mean, you know, with all that stuff comes haters and their voices are loud, you know, and they will come after you. And Christians are the worst. Christians, I'm saying in air quotes because I'm not so sure you're saved. Are the worst. And I mean it. And take that to the bank. Don't email me. Email these girls. GGB at.
- [35:45]
Ange
Yeah, take it to us. We'll answer it.
- [35:47]
Jonathan Paluda
So, but yeah, and I would just say we, God made us emotional beings and like sometimes we have seasons of being down. Some, some theologians call it the dark night of the soul, where it's just like, that's our opportunity. It's not a literal fire, it's not cancer, it's not circumstantial. It's just like, hey, God, when I open this book, you just feel far, you know, And I just, I'm grasping, I want to laugh, but I'm just not feeling it. And in that, in those seasons, you just get your friends around you, you have them pray for you. I mean, sometimes it's therapy, sometimes it's medication. I'm not anti medication therapy, I'm pro therapy. But you, you gather the believers and you say, hey, pray for me. Get your favorite ice cream, you know, go, you watch your favorite show, you know, just begin to do the things that you love and to the glory of God.
- [36:46]
Ange
Yeah, Yeah. I think that there's a level of, you know, Ari and I didn't even grow up in church, so I think that there's a cost to ministry that we may not have been prepared for. Especially we're in a much better position now because we were going like our first four months of tour, our first year of the podcast, first four months of tour, we had no intercessors, we had nobody that prayed for us, we had nobody that covered us. And that was really, really hard. And we didn't even under. Like, we didn't know. We didn't know. We. We thought it was like, us G. Like, we' Good. And then we. We have learned a lot since then, and it's been really helpful having so many people cover us in prayer. And we. You know what I saw you do that I loved. And that's. I started doing it. You posted on your Instagram story and you asked people to pray for you.
- [37:32]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah.
- [37:33]
Ange
And I was like, we have GGB Gang. Like, why aren't we asking them to pray for us?
- [37:37]
Jonathan Paluda
Well, I pray for y'all.
- [37:39]
Ange
I know.
- [37:39]
Jonathan Paluda
I mean, thank you. It's a. There's a battle. This is. It's weird. It's weird, but there's a battle of, like, demons and angels around us all the time. And so you're protected by angels. I don't think it's necessarily like a guardian angel. Like, we're taught, like, this, like, one angel. And in fact, sometimes I'm like, God, send your strongest angels, Especially on those airplanes, rough air. I'm like, lord, send your strongest angels. Carry this plane safely. But, yeah, I mean, you definitely like prayer. So in Ephesians 6, that all culminates in prayer. And I think we think about prayer. And this is in the book, like, room service. I heard Pastor John Piper say something like this once. It's like, we're in an all inclusive resort, like in Hawaii, and we're dialing up chocolate cake. Like, hey, can I. Can you guys please send up a new pillow? Or like, you know, I forgot my toothpaste. And we're just like, we use prayer like that, but we're in a war. Like, there's a war being fought when you go into that city and you step in and people come into that arena like, like, the enemy is there. He's going to say, you're not real. Like, no, that's. You're not true. You don't really love Jesus. You're doing this for fame. You're doing this for the glory, you know, for this and that. What? And this and, and, and. And you say, hey, man, like, when he comes at me with that stuff, I'm like, man, you're probably right. Yeah, you're probably right. I'm sure some of that's there. But I got an amazing savior because Satan's not afraid of us. He's terrified of Jesus. Like, he. Like me, you know, he's like, 67250, no problem, right? But Jesus, yeah, Like, I. I don't want to. I don't want any. He. He doesn't want anything to do with Jesus. And so I think that whole section in Ephesians 6 culminates in don't stop praying. Don't stop praying. And Lord, Lord protect us. And he does. I mean, I. I, like, I will sense that, like, the whole room will change. Sometimes I'm preaching, and they're like, you know, and there it feels like nobody's listening. I'll just stop. Like, Lord, would you. Would your Holy Spirit speak through these words to change hearts, to change lives? And you just feel the whole room. Oh, yes. Yeah.
- [39:46]
Ari
We always wonder these things in my.
- [39:48]
Jonathan Paluda
Mind or sometimes out loud. I've done both.
- [39:50]
Ange
Okay.
- [39:51]
Ari
Yeah.
- [39:52]
Ange
No, this is so exciting because obviously we're on tour, so we have, like, learned. We're 16, you know, nights down, and we've learned so much just in those 16 nights. And you don't understand, like, I'll be on there. You don't know how we get attacked while we're on stage. There are times and I fight through it, and I've made a decision that if this happens again, because I have the ability to fight through it. I have the ability to keep going and just do what I need to do. Even though I'm feeling oppression, I'm feeling. There are times where I'll be on stage and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, and I'll feel it before I'll go. I'll feel the darkness, like, in the venue where these theaters, these old theaters, and I'll feel like this blanket of sadness or just, like, fog. Like, I just. So heavy. And I'll be like, what is going on right now? Like, I legitimately feel. Feel something sitting on my chest. Like, I feel. It's so crazy. And so I've decided now, ggv, if you're at one of our shows, I'm gonna stand up and I'm gonna say, I am not. Like, I'm not doing this. And I'm gonna call it out on the spot, and I'm gonna be like, we're breaking this off right now.
- [41:02]
Jonathan Paluda
Oh, yeah. Just be like, hey. Hey, guys. Man, I just. I sense a heaviness in the room. You'll sound like a, you know, Pentecostal preacher, but just be like, I sense the heaviness in the room. So let's just all pray for a second before we go further, just that. That there would be no evil here, that that would be bound in Jesus name. That. That this would just be holy ground sometimes, like, I did a tour once, and, you know, sometimes you walk around the place and just like, lord, protect this place, make it holy ground.
- [41:29]
Ange
I pray over every city.
- [41:30]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah, all of those kinds of things. But, yeah, when it happens, here's what I'm like. And I don't talk to the devil. I'm like, other than scripture, like, that's. That's some people.
- [41:41]
Ari
Do you want to take it out of here?
- [41:43]
Jonathan Paluda
More power to you. For me, I just. I just say scripture to them, and. And it's like, hey, if you're going to attack me, I'm going to pray harder. Just know that it's a wartime prayer, so we're not calling up room service. It's like we're on walkie talkies, and it's like, hey, I'm going into this coffee shop and there's lost people all around me. Who do you want me to share with? What do you want me to do? What. What's going on with that guy there? Lord, would you give me supernatural wisdom to. To love and support him? I walk in here, I'm like, hey, are you. Ari's struggling with joy, man. Like, let's. Let's pray that away. Like, let's get. Let's get the. The Lord moving in her heart, you know, whatever. And so just begin to, like. Just like, we're. We're almost home, man. You know, we're about to go to Hawaii forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. And. And there's, like, all these people around us. Like, this place is on fire. Like, it's. It's burning down. And. And people everywhere are going to hell. And so I'm like, all right, Lord, let me. Let me try to make heaven as crowded as we possibly can. And so, yeah, when you feel that heaviness on stage, I wouldn't sweat it. I mean, I think it even. I'd just be like, hey, let's just. Hey, let's all pray right now. And that's it. Can't stay. Prayer is so powerful. When the apostles came up against, you know, a demon possessed person, and they say, why couldn't we get that one out? Like, why couldn't we call it out? Jesus says, this one only comes out with prayer. And so it's like, where is that? In some of our deliverance ministries, you know, these guys that get really animated, and it's really theatrical and whatnot. And I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong because I can't see their heart, but sometimes we got to look at somebody and Say, you know what? I'm just going to pray for you and I'm. I'm not going to eat this week or I'm going to go a couple days without food, or I'm just going to, you know, I'm going to limit. I'm going to fast in some kind of way and. And just pray for you. Because he says in the way it's represented in another gospel is this kind only comes out with prayer and fasting. And so, yeah, I, I've had friends preaching and like a demon manifests in the room and that happened to a friend of mine and sometimes they just like start yelling from the audience. And so that can get in your head. It's like, I don't want that to happen, but if it does, it's just like, you don't understand how much more power. Like, we don't believe in a. Theologians call dualism. It's like equal opposing forces. It's like God and Satan and they're really struggling. No, it's like God, God. It's like Satan can't even do anything without God's permission, you know, it's like he's so much more authority, so much more powerful than him.
- [44:05]
Ange
That is so. I am so fired up right now. And you know what? I like, even when that happens on stage, I have learned to get so excited because I'm like, God has something so special for this moment, and Satan is so intimidated that he's like, trying to make us all confused and sad and insecure. So I just. We always try to encourage people that, like, if you're being attacked, not. You don't have to rejoice in being attacked, but you can also have a little bit of confidence that, like, you've got something that's intimidating. There's something special in you that God placed in you. And Satan is like, I gotta attack that so it doesn't come to fruition.
- [44:41]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah. Have you ever seen like in a movie, it's like Lion King. It's been kind of played out, the plot where it's like, there's like a. I'll just go with Lion King. There's like a little cub, you know, and he's coming up against all of these hyenas or the wolves or something bad, you know, that we're going to devour him. And he's like. He tries to roar, but it's like comes out as like a squeak. Like, like the, like the big scary lion walks up behind him and then all they get scared and he thinks it's him. You know, he thinks, oh, they're scared of me, little lion cub. But really, they see the dad behind him. He doesn't know his dad's behind him. That's what I think about. I mean, I could tell you a story. I don't know if we have time. Yeah. Yeah.
- [45:19]
Ange
Go.
- [45:24]
Ari
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- [49:33]
Jonathan Paluda
Okay, so when I, when I become a Christian, like I don't have Christian friends, you know, so I'm still hanging with my old boys and we're at a Atom bar and, and everybody's had too much to drink and so like I'm like brand new. I'm like brand new to Jesus. And, and so I'm sober and I'm there and you know, one of my friends, like the smallest one of us is, is really intoxicated. And so he does, you know, the dumb thing guys do is he finds the smallest guy in the bar and he goes, what are you looking at? And they're like, oh, but we're about to throw down and So I go over there, you know, sober, and I separate them and I'm like, hey, guys, I'm Take him home. He's had too much to drink. And I separate him like this. Well, this little guy here, he slaps my hand. He goes, don't you touch me. And I was like, oh, man, no, hey, listen, we're going to go, you know, it's cool. Like, hey, you go your way. He's going to go his way. And they get back together, and I separate them again. He goes, I told you, don't you effing touch me. And I'm like, hey, man. I kind of like bend down. I'm like, hey, buddy, wait, don't do that. And now all our buddies circle around him. So eight guys are around him, you know, and they might like, dude, these, they're. They're taking the creatine and stuff. Like they're, you know, they're working like they're big dudes. And. And so they're all around him. And so there's. There's 10 of us because my buddy and me, and then eight other guys and then this little guy in the bar. And I was like, hey, man, that's not going to go well for you. Like, don't do that. And he pulls out his phone. He looks at me, he goes, oh, yeah. He pulls out his phone, he touches a knife name and he goes, hey, you here? Okay, I got someone I want you to take care of. And then he hangs up and he goes, we'll see. And I'm like, wait, what? I was like, what a move, man.
- [51:20]
Ari
What's this?
- [51:20]
Jonathan Paluda
And I'm like, I like, you call Batman, like, what's.
- [51:22]
Ange
So.
- [51:22]
Jonathan Paluda
I'm like, hey, guys, we gotta go. Like, let's go. And we go out in the parking lot, and I'm talking Dwayne Johnson, the Rock. I mean, like the biggest dude you've ever seen. You're like, with. There's two of them, like two dudes. He has a chain around his neck like a. Like a chain you pull a car with. With a padlock. Like, walking up like these. The guys, I was like, nah, they left, man. I think about the courage that guy had. What you see in Ephesians 6, it says the word stand like five times. Stand. Stand. 1, Peter 5. Clothe yourself in humility, for God oppose the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that in due time he may lift you up. Your enemy, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion. Looking for someone to devour, resist him. Standing firm in the faith. So I think about that guy, just the way he looked at me, and he's like, dude, you. You see. You see 10 men. You don't know who I know. You know, you don't know who's with me. You can't see who's with me. And he's just like. And so. And he just stood there, like, with so much confidence. Honestly, it intimidated me, like, his confidence. I'm like, dude, I don't know who you called, but I don't want to know. And I think that's what it looks like to walk in faith. It's like, you don't know who I know. I know you're not afraid of me, but Daddy got, you know, like, the creator. The creator of the heavens and the earth has my back. So don't Daddy. God. Yeah, I know. He's got to edit that out. I'm kidding. But. But, yeah, it's like. It's wild because I. You know, I've been in Haiti, I've been in Africa, I've been in Mexico. I've been in the Amazon jungle, all of those places multiple times. Stories of, like. Like, coming across demons, like, you know, and I just have never seen it. People on my team, you know, they'll come back with those stories. I've just never seen it until I was in a country club in Utah.
- [53:13]
Ange
That's cool.
- [53:14]
Jonathan Paluda
One of the nicest country clubs. Dude just came off the golf course with his visor, and I pray over him, and a demon manifests, and. And it's like the cra. And I'm like, I'd love to tell you. I was like, I'm not afraid. But I was like, please don't jump on me. Hey, stay.
- [53:29]
Ari
There was a huge.
- [53:31]
Jonathan Paluda
Was who You?
- [53:32]
Ari
The demon.
- [53:33]
Jonathan Paluda
Oh, I never saw the demon. I just saw the dude. It's just like, no. So I'm, like, praying over him. Yeah. He's like, so I'm praying. She's like, what'd the demon look like? No, I just, like, pray over this guy. He's telling me he struggled to pray. Like, he would, like, he would, like, his throat would close and stuff. And I was like, man, that sounds demonic. And he was like, oh, it's not demonic. You Christians, y'all are crazy. And I was like, well, can I pray for you? And I pray over him. And I was like, lord, I just pray, you know, that you'd heal him, that he'd be able to pray, that he would Know Jesus, and if there's any evil here, would you just bind it in Jesus name? All this stuff starts not throwing up. Like, just, like, these noises started coming from him, and his arm, like, flies up in the air, and he starts convulsing. And I was like, what is happening right now? Like, what is going on right now? So. And I. Again, I've never. I'm like, lord, in Jesus name, I start calling my charismatic friends, and I just started writing this book, Charismatic Friends, and they're like, man, you're going to see more and more of that. Yeah, it's everywhere. Like, I mean, they're just. They're. They're not hiding anymore.
- [54:35]
Ange
Wow.
- [54:36]
Jonathan Paluda
And they aren't. And so I think as you go into places, I think, you know, Jesus, he's coming back. I think we're. Like I said, I know we're closer today than we were yesterday. I don't know how close we are, but I've got a feeling that, you know, and it's. We always see things through the lens of America, but the reality, there's a whole big world out there, lots of countries, and I think. I think as. As America gets further and further away from God, you know, they. They feel the freedom to show their faith. But I. I think we're seeing a revival. I think we're seeing hearts turn toward God right now. Part of it's what you guys are doing on tour. When are y'all in Texas?
- [55:16]
Ange
April 25th.
- [55:18]
Jonathan Paluda
Let's go. April 25th is Dallas and 7th.
- [55:20]
Ange
Yes, 25th and 27th.
- [55:22]
Jonathan Paluda
And 27th is San Antonio.
- [55:24]
Ange
I think so.
- [55:24]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah, I think that's right.
- [55:25]
Ange
Check.
- [55:26]
Jonathan Paluda
Hey, Texas people, go see my friends.
- [55:30]
Ange
April 25th in Dallas. April 27th in San Antonio.
- [55:33]
Jonathan Paluda
Make sure, you guys. I'm. I'm going to go, okay? So we can hang out. Y'all go.
- [55:36]
Ange
He's going to del. Do deliverance at the end of the day.
- [55:41]
Jonathan Paluda
I love it. I love it. And thank you all so much.
- [55:44]
Ange
That would be.
- [55:45]
Jonathan Paluda
Thanks for the convos, man.
- [55:47]
Ange
So you split the book up into three different parts. You did. Who the villain is, what the villain does. Does. And how to fight back.
- [55:53]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah, yeah. And so who the villain is? Satan, Lucifer, the devil, lots of Prince of Darkness, the God of this world. The lowercase G. God of this world. He's the villain. Revelation 12 tells us that he took one third of the angelic realm with him. So one third of the angels fell. Encouraging thing there is God still has two thirds of the angels. Right. So they're outnumbered. Right? Out the gate. Not, you know, and then there's still God the Creator, and. And Jesus, you know, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And so, you know, they. He has access to the Word. Like, he's read Revelation. He understands his destiny is that he gets thrown in the lake of fire. So he's running a scorched earth strategy, meaning that he's just trying to hurt everyone. If he can't keep you from God, then he's going to try to discourage you. John 10 says he tries to steal, kill, and destroy. So that's what he's up to, is he's trying to prevent conversions and he's trying to discourage Christians. So when you say, hey, joy feels far, that's spiritual warfare. Like, that is for sure the enemy whispering lies to you. Like, you want to not believe those lies and replace those lies with the truth. But that's what he's doing. And so when you go into a city like Dallas or San Antonio to share the Gospel, he's like, we've got to trust to stop this. Discourage them, put a heaviness in this place. Sometimes to me, it feels like brain fog. Like, I'll be in a place where I'm just like, oh, like, what is. Man, My thoughts feel cloudy right now. Almost like the room feels smoky kind of. Kind of situation, a heaviness. People describe it as. And so he's wanting to do that so you feel. At least feel ineffective. But that's where I go, you know, his grace is sufficient. His power is made perfect. Perfect in our weakness. My favorite line, not in the scripture, that's as close as it gets, is if dependence is the goal, weakness is our advantage. So it's like, when we're weak, he's strong, and then how do we defeat him? You know, I. You know, people will say, if they grew up in Sunday school, like, put on the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, you know, the helmet of salvation. I'm like, I don't really know what that. Like, what do you mean? Put it on. Like, okay, helmet of salvation.
- [58:07]
Ange
Every morning before tour. All right.
- [58:10]
Jonathan Paluda
Yeah. And so I'm like, I don't know. So I think what's happening there. Paul is in prison in Rome. He's on house arrest. I believe he's chained to a Roman soldier. That's how they would do that. There is. They would, like, chain you to a Roman soldier. They would be walking by, guarding the place. And I think he's looking at them and using that as an illustration. And it's not necessarily the articles. Like, you can't put on a helmet of salvation and not have the breastplate of righteousness. You're unarmed if you do so. You have to have all of those things. It's the way that it says in the Greek. It's like, put on the full armor of God. So as we put that on, it's that we're positioned in truth. Because right now everybody's like, oh, it's your truth and their truth and his truth and her truth. No, no, there's absolute truth. If you're like, my truth is I can fly and I'm going to jump off this building, the truth of gravity is going to overwhelm your lie that you believed, and you're going to see that as a lie. And so there's absolute truth. There's a God, you know, he created everything. He sent his son, Jesus, to die for your sins. So we're positioned in truth. We are aligned with righteousness, which is just like, we're walking in, right? We're doing the right thing. And if we don't, we don't hide it. We're like, I really messed up there. You know, I drank too much or I. I hit the vape, or, man, we went too far in our relationship. I messed up, and I'm not going to hide it. Yeah, I'm going to break. It's right here. I'm. Put a giant spotlight on it. See that right there? I did that. I'm so sorry. Will you guys pray for me? And so we're aligned in righteousness. We're sharing the gospel. It's not just for professional Christians. Like, it's. Every follower of Jesus should share the gospel with people, tell people how they can live forever, that Jesus died for their sins and God raised him from the dead. We have this. We're standing in faith, and I think this is huge. Like, we have to grow our belief in God. Like, doubt will kick your tail. You know, it's like, I've got to grow in my faith in God. Shield of faith. Oh, the helmet of salvation. I think that's the setting your mind on the things above the internalizing salvation. Like understanding that I'm going to be with God forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. And that I operate the sword of the Spirit. I operate in the word, like we said earlier. Like, I know what it says. I do. What it says says, I'm writing it on my heart. When he comes at me with a lie, I'm responding with the truth and then never Stop praying. If all of your armor is in a box like a trunk, you know, the key to that trunk is prayer. So as you talk to the commander in chief, you open the trunk, you're able to put on the armor. And so that is, is how we find the abundant life that Christ came to give us.
- [60:53]
Ange
So good.
- [60:55]
Ari
That's what we needed.
- [60:56]
Ange
That's all we needed, everybody.
- [60:57]
Ari
That's it.
- [60:58]
Jonathan Paluda
Come on.
- [60:59]
Ari
This book, it's incredible.
- [61:02]
Ange
If you, if you are a Christian, you should be reading this book. Everybody has to have an understanding of the spirit realm of spiritual warfare, of the enemy. Jesus is so much bigger than the devil. He's so much bigger than his army of demons. However, we still have to have an awareness. Knowledge is power when it comes to our faith. Like, we need this. Thank you, Jesus, that you wrote this book. And thank you, Jesus, that you're somebody, you're not just a theologian that learned all of this like you experienced it. I love there's so much power in teaching that is from experience, like your lived experience, because it's real and that's who you are. Honestly, jp, likewise, not to honor circle you really quick, but like who you are to the people of our generation and younger. There's not many people like you. There aren't that many teachers like you. You make such a big difference. You have such an incred impact because you live it, you breathe it. This is your life. You are a man that knows Jesus. You walk in this room and you carry the glory of God. You minister to me for 20 seconds and I start crying because you carry Jesus with you everywhere you go.
- [62:09]
Jonathan Paluda
Likewise, y'all are doing it too. And so GGB gang, as you pray for these ladies, pray for your boy too.
- [62:15]
Ange
Yes, please be praying for jp.
- [62:17]
Jonathan Paluda
Let's be prayed up. But, man, just so proud of y'all and so honored to be be here. This is really fun. This is. I was really looking forward to, to this time and conversation. So it's good to just check in with y'all too. And just because I'm cheering y'all on for Waco, I'm like, I know it's my friends.
- [62:31]
Ange
You're the best.
- [62:32]
Ari
So grateful for you. Thank you so much.
- [62:34]
Jonathan Paluda
Let's go.
- [62:35]
Ange
We love you.
- [62:36]
Ari
Love you.
- [62:36]
Jonathan Paluda
Much love.
- [62:37]
Ange
And we love you guys. Love you, GGB.
- [62:39]
Jonathan Paluda
Come on, AT T Mobile.
- [62:42]
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