Help, I’m Having Doubts About My Partner!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Girls Gotta Eat – “Help, I’m Having Doubts About My Partner!”

Podcast: Girls Gotta Eat
Episode Title: Help, I’m Having Doubts About My Partner!
Hosts: Ashley Hesseltine & Rayna Greenberg
Date: October 6, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the experience of relationship doubts, particularly when everything looks “perfect” from the outside. The hosts, Ashley and Rayna, center their discussion around a heartfelt listener email from a woman questioning her marriage, dissecting why relationship doubts happen, how to process them, and what it really means to leave or stay. They blend their signature humor and frankness—plus their own experiences and those of their friends—into a compassionate, nuanced conversation about love, growth, boredom, and hard decisions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life Updates & Tour Reflections (Starts ~[00:32])

• Ashley and Rayna banter about everyday life, boyfriends running errands, and airplane etiquette.
• Ashley celebrates wrapping up her stand-up tour, discussing the adversity of performing comedy during turbulent political times.
• Both reflect on the healing power of laughter and creating escapism for their audiences, even “while the Titanic goes down.”
  • Ashley: “I feel like planning a comedy tour in this climate is, you know, being one of the violinists while the Titanic went down sometimes.” ([10:56])

2. Recapping Lady World Festival (Starts ~[13:30])

• Stories from “Lady World,” an all-female festival, including performing in the rain and bonding with other women podcasters and celebrities.
• Hilarious mishaps: Rayna accidentally AirDrops vibrator product pics to a stranger (not her friend Rachel Lindsay!), and both hosts swap travel/plane stories about people’s funny habits and seat choices.

3. Listener Email: Relationship Doubts (Starts ~[37:05])

Email Overview:

A 28-year-old listener married her college sweetheart young (engaged at 22, married at 23). Now confident and thriving, she wonders if she’s in love with her “perfect” life or truly her husband, especially as she feels unfulfilled and is attracted to a like-minded coworker. She’s scared of blowing up her social world, pets, and friendships, but feels “desperate.”

Key Excerpt from Listener ([39:22]):

“Luke aside, what do I do? I’m living seemingly a perfect life. My husband is a fantastic partner in all the ways you should hope a partner to be. I’m just deeply lacking in him adding depth, character, challenge to my everyday... I just feel like a whole different version of myself and I just want to be single and independent for once... Please help. I’m desperate.”

Ashley & Rayna’s Deep Dive Response

a) Is “Good Enough” Enough?

• Rayna opens up about her own engagement and hesitation at 28, discussing the pain of leaving a “good on paper” partner—someone kind and solid, but not exciting or fulfilling.
  • Rayna: “I remember thinking, am I so rotten on the inside that this doesn’t fulfill me?... Is good enough gonna sustain me forever?” ([43:12])

b) The Age Factor & Growing Apart

• Ashley emphasizes the reality that people change dramatically from early 20s to 30s, sometimes “growing in different directions.”
• They reference studies (and anecdotal evidence) that show marrying young often leads to reevaluating the relationship around age 27–30.
  • Ashley: “You start to figure out who you are at 30, and sometimes... you are able to grow with your partner, and sometimes you’re not. That’s just real.” ([48:06])
• Outgrowing a relationship is normal, and not a shameful “failure.”

c) “Perfect Life” is an Illusion

• Rayna stresses that external stability is not worth decades of inner dissatisfaction.
  • Quote: “This whole quote unquote, perfect life is an illusion. If you’re not happy within it, you know, everybody else in the world can say to you, ‘It’s hard out there...’ None of those people have to live your life for the next 40 years.” ([00:00]/[47:55])

d) The Grass Isn’t Always Greener

• Both hosts challenge the listener (and others) not to project too much onto “the other man” (the attractive coworker, Luke)—real compatibility only emerges over time.
• Emotional or intellectual boredom can manifest as crushes, but the dilemma is bigger than any one “spark.”

e) Don’t Rush: Take Your Time Deciding

• They encourage the listener not to make rash decisions about marriage, but to reflect, get therapy, and, if possible, gently voice her doubts to her partner
• Ashley: “You can relax a little and think over this more... You don’t have to make this decision right now.” ([51:49])
• Suggests reading Taylor Jenkins Reid’s novel After I Do for perspective ([54:00]; revisited at [76:37]).

f) Communication—Start Soft

• Recommend a “soft launch”: tell your partner you feel like you’re growing in different directions, ask for changes, and see if some needs can be met.
  • Ashley: “Mention this, soft launch it... ‘I’m worried we’re growing in different directions. What do you think?’ Start there.” ([74:16])

g) Facing the Fallout of Divorce (Starts ~[65:35])

• Yes, splitting up is a logistical and social nightmare (friends, families, pets, possessions), but “everyone gets through it”—the fear is often worse than the reality, and all their divorced friends ultimately rebuilt happy lives.
  • Rayna: “No one cares about you as much as you think they do and what you’ve done. People get divorced. It happens. People break up. No one’s judging you.” ([66:28])

h) Visualize Outcomes & Trust Yourself

• Both recommend visualizing life on the other side—if it feels like relief, that’s telling.
• Encouragement that whether you stay or go, you are not alone and you can rebuild.
  • Rayna: “You will go have a great life because you are you.” ([70:11])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ashley (on making people laugh during dark times):
  “This was the thing I want to do in these times: be together with mostly like-minded people... that just want an escape from what’s happening—even for an hour or two.” ([07:51])
• Rayna (on shame/guilt over leaving a good partner):
  “What is wrong with me that I have this and I don’t wanna fuck this person? ... Is good enough gonna sustain me forever?” ([43:16])
• Ashley (advice for conversations):
  “You do not have to tell him, ‘I think you’re boring’... You can even say things that we’ve said: ‘I think we’re growing in two different directions. I don’t know if we want the same type of life.’” ([73:38])
• Rayna (on overcoming breakup or divorce):
  “As sad as I was... the sense of relief was also there. I don’t have to pretend to be interested in this shit anymore.” ([72:41])
• Encouragement to the listener:
  “You will go have a great life because you are you.” ([70:35])
• Book Recommendation:
  After I Do by Taylor Jenkins Reid, as a way to process and find clarity ([54:00]; [76:37])

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00] – “Perfect life is an illusion” quote
• [10:56] – Comedy during dark times; “Titanic” analogy
• [13:30–16:00] – Hilarious Lady World/Festival/Plane stories
• [37:05] – Intro to the listener email and topic
• [39:22] – Full reading of listener’s dilemma
• [43:16] – Rayna’s personal engagement story
• [48:06] – Ashley on growing apart, age, and change
• [51:49] – “Don’t make a rash decision” guidance
• [54:00] – Book/therapy recommendations
• [65:35] – Fallout and logistics of divorce
• [70:35] – Rayna’s encouragement to have faith in your future
• [73:38] – How to talk to your partner about doubts
• [76:37] – Recommending helpful fiction and therapy

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• There’s no shame in questioning a relationship, even a “perfect” one.
• You are not alone: Others have navigated this and found happiness on the other side—whether by staying and reinvesting or breaking up and rebuilding.
• Take your time: Don’t rush decisions in a marriage—process, seek support, and trust your ability to build a beautiful life, whatever comes next.
• Open communication with your partner is key, even when it’s scary.
• Read, reflect, and seek therapy if needed—resources like After I Do and BetterHelp can help clarify your feelings.

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Resource Links

• After I Do by Taylor Jenkins Reid (book recommendation)
• BetterHelp (therapy platform)
• Girls Gotta Eat podcast YouTube channel
• Vibes Only (Ashley & Rayna’s sexual wellness brand)

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For anyone facing the “Should I stay or should I go?” crossroads—this episode is an empathetic, unvarnished guide, packed with perspective, humor, and heartfelt realness.

Transcript

[A]

This whole quote unquote, perfect life is an illusion. If you're not happy within it, you know, everybody else in the world can say to you, it's hard out there. It's tough. You found a good person. Hang on to it. None of those people have to live your life for the next 40 years.

[B]

This podcast is a Dear Media production.

[A]

Hi, guys.

[B]

Hi, guys.

[A]

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta eat.

[B]

Just us today.

[A]

It's a lot to celebrate. It's your special shooting week, and I'm ending the tour.

[B]

It's a big week. I can't believe it. It's a big week. Yeah. While we're here, just. This is the last week of my tour, and I'm just having so many feelings about it, and I can get into it after we thank our partners. We can't.

[A]

I have a thing. It's a big week.

[B]

I have a thing to say.

[A]

Okay. All right, well, we'll thank our part.

[B]

Cry yet.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm gonna try to keep it in the box. A tough time. Okay. There's a lot going on.

[A]

If you have to cry, go outside. I'll thank our partners.

[B]

Let me go next door. Walk into the maga Wolf of Wall street office. Just start bursting into tear. Can some Can a man help me?

[A]

That'll snap you out of it. I ran Jeremy all around the city for me yesterday. Speaking of can a man help me? We walked into Whole Foods. I was like, get the cart. Get the cart. And he just followed me. And I was like, you don't need to come down this aisle. I'm just getting a bag of chips. You don't need to follow me down. I love him so much, but I was like, this is so fun. And then I made him take everything out of the cart, and I made him carry all the bags.

[B]

So funny. Raina's just really getting off on bossing a man around. And then you better get out of your system with him. Cause you get a boyfriend, you start boss. Cause you've been feeling the itch.

[A]

You gotta treat him right. I know. I made him go to the gas station with me and fill up all my tires while I sat in the car.

[B]

Not the air. In the tires.

[A]

He did all my tires. Okay. So I wanted to ask you, do you think. Okay, so him and I were, like, walking around. He had to push the cart, right? And I was just, like, putting stuff in the cart. We were walking around. Like, I don't ever see, like, a woman pushing the cart when there's, like, a couple. It's usually like the man at the grocery store. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you think it's performative for other men? Do you think that they're just like, I am such a bitch if I let her push the cart?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Well, let me ask you. I'll tell you the other option, because I.

[B]

We rarely have a cart. Like, we don't have a family. We live by Whole Foods. We go get our stuff. We shop local at the farmer's market. When are we getting a cart?

[A]

I think.

[B]

I think he and I have gotten a cart once, and I like to push the cart. He sits in the front. He's like, a little bit like, his legs dangle. I push him around. I'm kidding. He sits in the cart.

[A]

You guys just make out while you push him around?

[B]

We in the cart.

[A]

No, you're right. I don't think I've gotten a cart since Thanksgiving last year when I cooked Thanksgiving dinner. But, yeah, I just. I had a man with me, and I was just like, you got to do this. And there was a bunch of stuff I wanted. I get giant jugs of iced coffee, and I buy, like, six at a time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I just.

[B]

Have you got the cart? Yeah. I don't know how to answer that.

[A]

I'm done with my options for you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you think it's performative for other men? Because other men would be like, he's such a bitch. Or I asked another man yesterday. I was like, what if you just saw a woman pushing a cart? A man just was just, like, meandering. He was like, I would think that guy has got it figured out.

[B]

I never thought of the cart as gendered responsibility. Yeah. Also, we're usually at the grocery store with Azul. We walk them over there. So someone's got a. If we have a cart, someone's got the cart. Someone's got the dog. Also, someone's going around getting stuff.

[A]

So I'm the one that goes around.

[B]

Gets and gets stuff. Yeah.

[A]

So I'm not the cart pusher. I'm.

[B]

Maybe he is pushing the car while I get stuff.

[A]

That's, I think, more like it being gendered. Like, I was like, obviously, it was my little shopping trip, but, like, yeah, I want to be, like, bopping around getting stuff.

[B]

Okay, well, let's thank our partners. You guys let us know. All right, now you talk your card habits.

[A]

Okay. Thank you. To function, our first 1000 listeners get a $100 credit towards your membership at functionhealth.com GGE or use the code GGE100 and BetterHelp. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com GGE and SKIMS. Get our favorite bras and underwear at.

[B]

Skims.Com GGE and thank you to Saks Fifth Avenue. Head to Saks Fifth Avenue or Saks.com for inspiring ways to elevate your personal style and Roc rocket money. Cancel your unwanted [e-mail] GGE and thank you to Helix. Get 25 off at Helix sleep.com GGE okay, so a couple things. I added a Minneapolis show. Just. I felt like it had to be done. People were in the dms. So I am going to be in Minneapolis if you guys are listening on the Monday. Tomorrow I added a 9pm show. So come out 9pm on a Tuesday. I'm sorry it's not the most ideal time. But I promise you have an amazing time. And, you know, maybe you'll be a little sleepy on Wednesday, but it'll be worth it. It's gonna be so fun. And I just can't wait to see you guys. The first show sold out. Honestly, before I really even could announce it on the podcast, I just had announced it on my personal Instagram. So I wanted to add that. And I will be there at Acme Comedy Club. You guys can get those tickets. Ashass.com is my website. And then head to New York and I am shooting my special on Saturday. This Saturday, October 11th. Two shows. The first is sold, second is not. As of now, I highly recommend coming. Everyone will be there. Raina will be there, my fiance, my whole family. Oh, my God. And it's just. It's this. The huge moment in my life. I've worked so hard towards this. I'm so proud of it. I can't wait to show you guys what I'm wearing when I figure it out myself.

[A]

It's been a journey.

[B]

Like, it's been such a journey. I don't know yet. So we'll see. It's. I just. I can't even. I don't want to get stressed while I'm speaking about it. So you guys can get tickets and I'll see you there. And I just. I don't know what else to say besides, this is it. It's really happening. And I will wrap the tour the following night in Boston at the Wilbur, the grand finale. That is where I met my fiance, obviously. This is the sex before marriage tour. It's a real full circle moment. I met him at the Wilbur, where I'm doing the show. And we love Boston, of course. And so it only felt right to end it there. And I feel so emotional about it because this has been such an incredible time in my life doing these shows, going to all these cities, seeing you all in the audience, of course, reconnecting with friends on the road and doing this material that I feel so proud of and just being in these rooms and laughing with you all during such a hard time in this country. And when I was planning this tour, I was like, shit is hitting the fan. I don't know what 2025 is going to look like. I started thinking about it, planning it at the end of 2024. Yeah, end of 2024, I pulled the trigger on it. Started thinking about dates, working with Andrew, our agent. And then obviously first of the year, it all started to really come together. And I mean, it has been such a horrific year in so many ways. And I remember when I did my tour in 2022, and right after I wrapped like the summer run and then I picked it back up in the fall, I was in D.C. and I had just done my shows there and that's when they overturned Roe v. Wade. And I couldn't believe it. I mean, I remember where I was. We all remember where we were. Like, we couldn't believe this happened. This was so disturbing. And I remember thinking, like, I'm so glad my shows are over. Cause I don't know how I would have gotten on stage feeling like this and to be up there and telling jokes. And so I just remembered that feeling and was like, am I really gonna do a Tour? And in 2025, like, what is gonna happen? Every day it's something terrifying and alarming and this country is plunging into this authoritarianism, literally. Like how what is gonna happen? What's gonna happen with women and immigrants and all these things. And every day it's a new nightmare. And I'm supposed to get on stage and make people laugh. And I did it. I remember being in Pasadena, which is right down the street, when the ICE raids were happening. Still happening, obviously, but state of emergency. Yeah, when it was just like really such a big deal happening here in la. And I was like, all day I'm upset, I'm crying, I'm like, what can we do? And then I have to go tell jokes. And I said this before, that this was the thing I want to do in these times is be together with mostly like minded people that feel the same way, that just want an escape from what's happening, even for just an hour or two. And to feel like, we're all in this together and we can all be in a room and laugh during these dark times. And that has meant the world. And there have been days that I am like, I can't believe what's happening. I don't recognize this country. I'm so mad, I'm so sad and I have to go tell jokes. And that's what, what I did. And I'm so glad that I did. And it's just like I look back on 2022, like, hahaha. Oh my God, that was, that was terrible. But like, literally we still had a democracy then, you know what I mean? And like, look at us now in 2025 and to do a comedy tour during all this. My point is like, it's just felt a little disjointed at times, but also meaningful in the best way and cathartic.

[A]

I mean, I'm proud of you, I love you. And I'm going to save some of my comments about your tour and all this for next week after I watch you film the special. So I will, I'll hold my comments to that. But you know, I think everybody just feels like, what can I do? And I think that if what you can provide to the world, you is some escapism, I think there's some real value in that. And I think it sometimes feels silly to be like, my wedding, hehehe, are these dates I went on. And I'm not boiling your comedy down to that, but it feels maybe a little bit silly or not heavy enough, you know, because of what's happening in the world. But if what you can provide to the world is just an hour escape from what is happening in the world, then like, then you've done your job. You made people smile and laugh. And I know people come here every week and listen to us talk about politics lately, and we want to be able to provide both to you on this show. You know, we want people to feel seen and heard. It's feeling braver and braver every week to talk about this stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I also want you and I to provide escapism and insights and laughter to people and we'll do that for the rest of this episode. We promise. We're going to pivot. But you know, I'm just, I'm proud of you. And I know sometimes it feels like, am I really going to fucking do this today? Like sometimes the world things are happening in the world, I'm like, I have to do an Instagram story about these vibrators we sell.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, I think pleasure is important, and I think orgasms are important, and connecting with your body and intimacy and connecting with your partner is also important. So I'm like, no, it isn't stupid. And sometimes people are like, how can you talk about this at a time like this? And it's like, well, sometimes the world just does need that.

[B]

Yeah, I. When I was like, I feel like planning a comedy tour in this climate is, you know, being one of the violinists while the Titanic went down sometimes. And I feel like that some days, even I feel like that just like, we're on this sinking that for a while. I. I have thought. I thought it for a long time.

[A]

You know, I think that you're really smart. I'm like, look at your cute little analogy. But this is how it's.

[B]

I've. I've thought it for a long time. I feel like we are in the band on a sinking ship, and, you know, they just pack it up in. That moment is just so heartbreaking because they're like, this is it. And I have felt like that for a long time. I had never seen it on the Internet, and I saw it kind of recently, and I was like, oh, we've. A lot of us feel like this. Like, So I was like, is it gonna feel like that? And again, also, I've been able to make a lot of jokes about the political climate, and especially when I was in D.C. i mean, it feels like we're in this together, and sometimes what's happening is too dark to joke about, clearly. But, you know, when I was in Pasadena and everything was going on, I was at the Ice House. I was like, what a name. Fuck, what a gift. I was like, I have a weird time to be named the Ice House.

[A]

It just feels sometimes like, you know, there's all these projects you and I wanna work on, and you and I have been talking about me doing my own thing, and sometimes I sit down to write and I'm like, am I really writing these dating app jokes at a time like this? It's hard to, like, focus. But, like, that is my escape, and that is something that I enjoy. And we just had this, like, amazing weekend. We performed with the Lady Gang podcast. They threw a festival called Lady World, and they got all these incredible women together on one stage, and every single performer has been on our show. I mean, it was Stassi Schroeder and Rachel Lindsay Taylor Strecker and the Chicks in the Office and Kaitlyn Bristowe and who am I forgetting? Hannah, Partner. We spent like, you know, it was just. We spent the whole day with Hannah on Saturday. I mean, it was just so wonderful to just, like, reconnect with all these women and perform to an audience full of women. And there was just so much joy and laughter, and it was just like, such a beautiful moment. And I have to remind myself that there are, like, beautiful things in this world outside of what's happening.

[B]

Yeah, well, let's talk about that, and I'll wrap it up with. I'll see you guys this week.

[A]

No, I will.

[B]

I'll see you guys in Minneapolis. Grab those tickets. And then New York for the late show. And then in Boston, there's still some tickets left as of now, and that's at Ashas do. And then it's over. And then I'm like, okay, well, I have one more thing of the wedding.

[A]

You. I don't know what you're going to do on November 2nd.

[B]

I really don't go to Napa.

[A]

I'm going to fly to New York, and that's what we'll do.

[B]

Obviously, you're going to fly to New York. I haven't planned it, but honestly, we all know I haven't planned it, but.

[A]

It just came to me. Maybe I'll come to Napa with you.

[B]

I love that idea, actually. Okay. So Lady World was just so incredible. And the lady gang women, Kelty, Jack, and Becca, through this festival, first time, and I think they were probably even like, what the fuck are we doing? You know, like, it was so intense. It was three days. It was so much programming, programming all day and then programming all night, and podcasters and comedians and musical artists. It was just a lot going on. And we got there and our show, we had to pretty much perform in the rain. I mean, it started raining towards the end of there set, and so we had to kind of wait it out a little bit. Then we went out there. I mean, we were wet. And then people just started to, like, put their ponchos on, and they stayed. And it was just really such a heartwarming, like, emotional moment that people were like, I'm here for it. And we did our show. And the next day, obviously, Raina mentioned Hannah and Rachel Lindsay also.

[A]

I made Hannah sound like an afterthought. Hannah's our closest friend on this whole lineup. So I just want to jump into something we love.

[B]

Hannah's a given. And then that second night, Saturday night, was all these, like, pop 2k is what they call it. All these boy bands. So o Town and BB Mac and LFO and Mark McGrath from Sugar Ray and Chris Kirkpatrick from NSYNC. And they all came out together, and they kind of performed this, like, super group at one point and played all the hits. And I mean, just the nostalgia of that was incredible. It was just me, you, and Rachel Lindsay on the side of the stage, just, like, rocking out, singing all these songs and. But yes, together, like, the girlhood of it all was just inspiring. And I'm so proud of them, and I know. I hope they're proud of themselves. And Saturday, they were like, this is the best night of our lives. And the setup was incredible, and we hope they do it again. I mean, it's hard to throw a festival. And a lot of times the first year, it's like, people are like, what is this? I don't really get it. And I think they have shown what it is. So much content. Go look at their Instagram. There's photos and videos. And we were making TikToks, and they were up on the feed like, 30 seconds later. We're like, oh, they are. The social team is on one.

[A]

I mean, you should put women in charge of everything. First time festival, they programming all day. They had merch. They had just, like, the best audience. Every single minute was planned. They had yoga classes. I mean, we won't harp that much longer about a festival you guys weren't all at, but to watch what women can do with the first time festival, I was like this. Well, of course Fyre festival was a disaster. You put a bunch of men in charge.

[B]

I know. I mean, I've never felt so taken care of. Like, was on point. Everything ran so smoothly.

[A]

Green room had crystals in it, coffee table books. It had throw rugs. It was just beautiful.

[B]

Yes. Women in charge.

[A]

So it was really fun.

[B]

It was really special. So.

[A]

And I'll tell you something funny that happened on my way out of Lady World. Okay, So I got on the plane, and I'm just gonna press by saying this has always been my greatest night nightmare. And I don't know how this. Well, maybe my greatest joy. I don't know what's ever happening. But I walked on the plane, and Rachel Lindsay was sitting across from the plane with her man, and I was like, oh, my God, it's you. We're, like, giggling, whatever. And we just had, like, so much work to do this weekend. So I started working, and you and I are launching some new products for vibes only. And we have all these new photo selects that I needed to, like, go through. And so I transferred them all to my computer. I picked like a certain number and I was like, I'm having trouble seeing them. I want to see what they look like on a phone. Because the color can look a little different. Computer to phone. So I narrowed it down to like 30. And I was like, I'll just transfer them to my phone. And I was like, ah, let me just get this to like 10. So I did like 10. And I selected them and I click airdrop. And I don't know who I airdropped them to. No, but it wasn't me and it wasn't Rachel.

[B]

No. Cause Rachel would have told you.

[A]

I was like, rachel, check your man's phone. Check your phone. I. I don't.

[B]

Wait. They were all like product picks or just product picks.

[A]

Nothing.

[B]

You could probably get sued for that.

[A]

Just vibrator product pics, which is. I'm in some of them. So like, thank God it's like not my face, but like there's like two butt shots of me holding a vibrator.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

But like, you know when you open your airdrop, obviously in public, a ton of names populate and yeah, all the. And I thought I just hit mine and I must have hit something else.

[B]

And you got to be real careful. It's airdropping in public. You were all willy nilly with it all. Tired. We were so tired.

[A]

I was so tired. And like we just. I hadn't eaten yet and I mean, thankfully it was like clean, you know, it wasn't like really dirty stuff.

[B]

Cause you've been sending some.

[A]

There's so many nudes on my phone. My phone. My camera roll is so insane right now. Ashley. It is maybe 150 photos. 50% of them are dick pics. I've received nudes of me and the rest is just my nephew. It is so disconcerting.

[B]

And vibrators.

[A]

It's so disconcerting to be scrolling through like dick pics. My tits, my nephew's face.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

So many. Yeah, it's really like, is that a.

[B]

Tit or a bald head of a one year old?

[A]

Is that a penis or a bald head?

[B]

What head is that? What kind of head is that? Oh, my God. Well, I had a funny thing happen on the plane. So I got on the plane and I see this man. He's like two seats ahead of me. And he just as a visual, if you want to picture the guy. Because I think people might want to know. It was just like a. I don't know, late 30s, maybe 40. Black man. We were In Atlanta. Like he looked like maybe he was worked as like a music producer or something. He's like a cool vibe about him. Backwards hat. He was wearing a bunch of like, you know, design or whatever.

[A]

Swaggy.

[B]

Yeah. So he gets on the plane immediately he puts on Selena, the movie. So immediately, like immediately he was like.

[A]

I gotta get Selena immediately.

[B]

Could not get Selena on fast enough. So I'm like, I wonder if he's like doing something that he needs to watch this for. Because it was so immediate. I like, I always like to spy on people. I didn't even watch him scroll through any movies. Like it was. He was. It felt like he like put it on purposely.

[A]

Was this on his iPad, like on the screen? We were in the, on the screen in the plane.

[B]

On the screen of the plane. Yeah, you know, Delta. So we had screens. And then I slept pretty much the whole flight. So Atlanta to lax, like five hours, whatever. I probably slept four of them. I slept pretty much the whole flight. I woke up and one, we were landing in 50 minutes. I. I did good. So I was like, oh damn. I really got that sleep in. I had to wake up to four in the morning, so I really needed it. And so I look up, he's still watching Celaena.

[A]

So he restarted the movie.

[B]

Either he restarted it or he went to sleep and like brought it back up. Like my immediate thing was like he's watched Selina back to back. But then I was like, there's a world in which he slept and then he put it back on.

[A]

I like to live in a world where I think he watched it twice back to back.

[B]

Also he was there with his wife and his child. So they were in two different seats. We were in the. Whatever it was, the Delta 1 cabin, which I didn't know was Delta 1. I thought it was just first and that was a real nice surprise. Best surprise of my life was to have a lay flat when I was that tired. So there are separate from him. He had his own. He was in the window. He had his own little cubby watching Selena. I was just like, this man loves Selena.

[A]

I just. Nothing I love more than watching what every single person is put on their screen. I love profiling people based on like what I think they're going to put on and then what they do put on. It always shocks people.

[B]

I know. And the man, we all know this man sits down next to you and puts on Fox News immediately. Immediately. You can't skip a beat. You can not watch Fox News for an hour long flight.

[A]

I Feel like people look at me and they're like, not sure. And I feel always proud. What I have on the screen, it's always cool. So the other day, what I put on when I flew back from New York to la, first the Eagles game, immediately followed by succession. I was like, I so cool. Yeah, I'm killing it. And then otherwise, my other picks are Curb. And then I watched Casino on the plane the other day.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

All cool girl picks.

[B]

Yeah, I'm big, big on Curb. Only Delta, I feel like. Does the live tv.

[A]

Oh, does it? I was on. I was live tv.

[B]

Yeah. It's like I was trying to watch the Eagles game on another flight. Whatever. Anyway, go Birds. They're four now. And then I have one other thing. We're talking about plane behavior. I wanted to open this up to the audience, something I find so insane. So my fiance did his bachelor party, and he just waited too long to book those flights, so he had to fly back in a middle seat. And so that was like, all that was available on the flight that he needed to be on to get back from the East Coast. And he flew in a middle seat, and a couple was on either side of him. I talking over him the whole time. Did not. He offered them, do you want to sit together?

[A]

Obviously, I am so shook.

[B]

I am so shook. So if he and I fly together and we need to be in a row of three, I will do the middle. And he's on the aisle. Or like, the last time we flew like that coming back from Denver from Jenny's wedding, he took the aisle. He likes the aisle over the window, and I took the middle.

[A]

I think it's so crazy. Listen, you know me. I would rather die than fly in the middle. I'll drive. Like, I always look at people in the middle. Like, how'd you end up there? Couples. That's how you end up in the middle. Couples. That's the couple's responsibility is one of you is taking the middle or families. And don't even get me started with people that talk over you. So I got on the plane yesterday, Rachel Lindsey and her man were in two seats, and I was in the window of the directly across seat. And I was like, oh, my God, it's you. And we're, like, joking. And the guy who was in the aisle goes, do you want me to take your window seat? And I go. And I go, no, I promise I won't talk over you for this flight. Like, that is so obnoxious when people do that. And I. I need a Window. And I'm not moving. So I would not go. I'm not going to talk with my girlfriend for the rest of the play. I'm not going to do it.

[B]

I think it's so crazy. Like, whatever that couple has going on, like, clearly, if they're listening or you are like, this couple, you're like, well, I like the window and he likes the aisle. Okay, so what, you prefer the window more than your man?

[A]

I mean, be comfortable, I guess, but, like, my man is sitting next to me. But my.

[B]

My thing is, I'm saying my comfort is that I can lean up on someone I know. Like, I am more comfortable in a middle seat next to my partner than a window or an aisle next to a stranger.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

That's the point.

[A]

I think it's crazy.

[B]

I think it's crazy. Yes. And they were. I was like, they were not talking you over the whole time. He was like, yeah, they were.

[A]

No, that's scale.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You and I also, we don't sit together that much on planes. We are not yelling across the plane at each other unless we're trying to, like, put on a show for people, which, like, you're welcome.

[B]

Okay, so this story I've been dying to tell you. So this happened at a show, and I'm just. I really want to leave out as many details as I can. My point is not to call these people out. Except for the protagonist of the story who said, I can use her first name. So we've been dming. That's my girl. So this happened. You know, I've been all over. So you don't know what city this is in. So I'm doing my show and I'm doing a crowd work. The couple's up front, and there was this couple, and I started joking with them because they were sitting kind of far apart. I was like, why are you guys social distancing if you're on a date? You know, like, a lot of space between them. The body language was not hidden. And so they were on a second date, and they said they met on Hinge. And she didn't even really know. She's like, I think Hinge. I was like, oh, you don't like him.

[A]

You know what app?

[B]

You met somebody? You haven't told your friends. You haven't told your mom. Like, it could be any app. You just don't remember.

[A]

Everyone remembers. Yeah.

[B]

If you know what app you use. But even if you are using multiple apps, like, you don't like him enough to remember your story.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know so whatever. I'm joking with them. She was like, I don't know. I first started talking to them, and she was like, I knew this was gonna happen. Like, she immediately kind of. Like, she didn't have a great energy. Like, the audience was kind of like, ooh. Like, why'd you sit up front then? Like, you don't have to. You don't have to sit up front. You can ask to move. It's a. It's a GA type of show, you know? So I was like, well, then I'm just gonna go a little harder. So I started crowd working with them, asking questions, and I went and talked to other people that I came back to them, and I was just fucking around with him. You don't have to answer if you don't want to. But I was like, what are you guys into in bed? And she immediately was like, no, not answering that. And I was like, okay, that's fine. And so I ask him, and he is uncomfortable. I'm like, what are you into in bed? And he would not answer. So I don't want women to feel uncomfortable in my show. Clearly, when she didn't want to answer, I kept it moving.

[A]

Him.

[B]

No, I'll have a standoff with you. Say something. So I'm looking at him. He's looking at me. I hear from the back he's into butt stuff. Someone from the back there, you're telling.

[A]

Me, who's a virgin? Did she know him or she was making this up.

[B]

So someone from the back yells, he's into butt stuff. And the Just record screeches, the audience gasps.

[A]

We're like, what is. She says it in a tone that is. I know this person because there's a tone you. And I know. Like, somebody's just, like, being like, butt stuff. Yeah, she knows.

[B]

So I'm like, what is happening? So I'm like, where am I gonna go with this? So I'm like, oh. I was like, oh, do you know him? And she was like, yeah, we dated. So now the audience is locked in.

[A]

What a treat.

[B]

So the girl on the date, not.

[A]

So happy he's locked out, but whatever.

[B]

And I'm gonna preface this by saying, sis, you dodged a bullet, because I know things. I'm not gonna share everything here today.

[A]

But you talked to his ex.

[B]

You dodged. You dodged a bullet. So I'm like, wait, do you know him? And she's like, yeah, we. We went on a couple dates, is what she says. And I can obviously see him, and I can sort of see her. She's in the back, but, you know, the audience is dark. And so he is craning his neck, looking around, trying to see who it is. And he. He actually can't see her. Even at the show the next night, I was like, the person sitting in that seat, I was like, can you see the person back there? And they were like, no, I can't. And I was like, okay. I just wanted to fact check. So he really can't tell who she is, because I couldn't tell if he was playing dumb in the moment.

[A]

You. And I can't see.

[B]

So I was like, well, what's your name? I was like, he's literally looking around, and I'm thinking, can't you see this woman that's saying she dated you? And I'm trying to figure out what's going on. I was like, well, what's your name? And she was like, karen from Pilates. And I'm like, you don't know Karen from Pilates?

[A]

From Pull up. She doubled down. She's like, I'm not just white. I'm the whitest.

[B]

So I was like, do you not know Karen from Pilates? Was she not your Pilates instructor? Did you meet her at Pilates? And I'm doing this whole thing, and he is literally looking around like, I cannot see her. And I'm like, how much more do I push this? And the audience, I can tell, is like, we need to know the story. So I'm like, I'm gonna do this for y'. All. I'm like, let's figure out what's going on here. I was like, why don't you head back there and talk to Karen? So he gets up.

[A]

What?

[B]

And he goes back. I mean, it wasn't that big of a room. He goes back, and it's dark. So he's looking at her, and he was like, oh, hey. And then they, like, hug. And then the crowd goes wild.

[A]

Insane. He's on a date with somebody else.

[B]

Here. Listen. People might not like this for her if I'm on the date. This is hilarious. He's on a date with me. This is funny. He's obviously not. He went on a couple dates with Karen. We met on an app. Everybody's out here dating. Like, this is. This is a funny date story to me. Yeah, but not everybody.

[A]

Well, everybody, you know, has different boundaries.

[B]

So that happens. And that's pretty much it. And he goes back to a seed, and, you know, we continue the show. And the girl. I wanted her to have the girl that was on the date with him. I wanted her to have a nice time. And she seemed like she was opening up throughout the rest of the show. She wasn't like sitting there cross armed the whole time. But I was like, she might try to get me canceled. But, you know, so I get home that night and I am looking at my DMs and I see I have a DM from someone named Karen. And I'm like, it's her. She's got an update for me. She had messaged at 7pm before the show started. She had messaged me before the show even started. Ashley, I'm in the audience at your show. Please roast the guy in the front.

[A]

No.

[B]

And then she describes him. She says, we briefly dated. He's a nice guy, total freak in bed. He's into some weird shit. She like, tells me some of these details. She said, he walked past me. I tried to make eye contact and say hi, but he totally ignored me.

[A]

Oh, fudge. This guy you shall glad you ruined his date.

[B]

Karen had the best night of her life.

[A]

This.

[B]

The fact that she preemptively had been like, please roast this guy. And then it just happened organically and she got to call out, karen's a witch. So I was just like, you were the MVP of the night. I'm dead over this. And she was like, thank you for an amazing show. And then she was like, okay. So he's been texting me and she's like, I'm not gonna get more into the details, but he.

[A]

You saved that girl on the front, though. You saved her from, like, a shitty person.

[B]

They didn't really have, like, chemistry. I mean, like, you can tell. Yeah, like, you know what I mean? Like, they weren't into it. And then that happened and just like, you know, a bullet dodged. But I'll tell you some, some of the rest of the stuff Karen told.

[A]

Me, like, offline in the car later when we go to Dr. Barrett.

[B]

So I just, like, could not believe that happened. But things like this would happen at Girls Gotta Eat shows because there's way more people there. You know, like Rain and I are in a city like Vancouver that people who live there, like, say it feels kind of like a small town sometimes. I mean, obviously it's a major city all the time.

[A]

This would happen in our shows.

[B]

But like Vancouver, we're in vancouver and there's 1500, 2000 people in the room. Like, some people know each other. They've dated. I mean, it happened one time in Pittsburgh. I thought those two girls were gonna.

[A]

Fight when they were in Toronto, those two guys in the balcony. And that was Vancouver.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

I got my Canada cities.

[B]

And then Pittsburgh. Like, those two girls, they were dating the same guy. They almost fought. I was like, are they gonna fight?

[A]

Like, it's crazy.

[B]

Pittsburgh. So it's just funny because I'm doing smaller venues and. But still, like, people were in my DMs last that night. Like, girl, you don't even know. It's hard out here. Like, this is what we're dealing with.

[A]

This is crazy.

[B]

Yeah. So that was what happened that I've been, like, wanting to tell you.

[A]

Okay. I'm glad that you saved this for the podcast. That's amazing.

[B]

Yeah. And she. Karen again. She. I was like, can I say your name and your first name? And she's like, I can't wait for you to tell Rayna. I was like, I'm gonna tell her on the podcast.

[A]

No, shout out Karen. And it's important that her name is Karen. Okay. All right, well, we're gonna thank our partners. We have a great episode. But before we do, we're doing a giveaway for you guys this week. So Ashley and I own a sexual wellness business called Vibes Only. There's premium sex toys, there's lube, there's handcuffs. There's a massage oil, which we just re released. So we wanted to do just like a fall cozy giveaway for you guys. All you have to do is sign up for the newsletter. That's it. Super simple, nothing more. It's for new subscribers only, and you will be entered to win a little cozy fall bundle. So it's gonna be our massage oil candle, our glowblow Intimate moisturizing oil, and my favorite toy at the moment, our fair finger vibe. And that is a vibe that you just slip on your finger or your partner's, and it turns your finger into a vibrator. And it is my favor travel vibrator.

[B]

Every night on the road.

[A]

I can't stop.

[B]

I'm so good. I just have to get this.

[A]

I really like our airpulse vibes that suck. So the Raina and the Debbie and something that we're cooking up soon. But the Farrah figure vibe is amazing. It is these deep, pulsing vibrations. So all you have to do is go to vibesonly.com and sign up for the newsletter. That's it. Just enter your email. You'll be entered to win these three things in a bundle. You have all week to enter. So we are going to close the giveaway this Friday October 10th at 11:59pm Pacific Time. We will also be putting a post up on Instagram at vibesonly if you want to just, you know, comment and let us know why you think you should win. But all new entries will be considered for the week, so good luck.

[B]

Best of luck.

[A]

Vibesonly.com yes.

[B]

Okay, so we are just gonna talk about our partners and we will pick.

[A]

It back up telling you guys about function. I am so excited to talk about this partner. I actually had a long talk with Jeremy this morning at my house and he said he's been using it for years. We choose Function because it is the only health platform to give me data most people never get and the insights to start something about it. Inside Function you get access to test over a hundred plus biomarkers from hormones to toxins to markers of heart health, inflammation and stress. And for an additional fee you can also access MRI and chest CT scans all tracked in one secure place. Over time, It's a nearly 360 degree view to better see what's happening in your body. And that's why top health leaders are all behind Function Health. So let's kind of talk about winterproofing your body and just getting it ready, making sure everything is healthy.

[B]

That's a winterproofing. No, but seriously, because it's like when I think about being healthy and your immune system it's like stay ready so you don't have to get ready.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

And obviously cold season and just the winter in general, like I want to go into the seasonal shift, peak health.

[A]

So you can get all these things checked in one place. So function, they'll help you check your vitamin D, zinc high sensitivity, C reactive protein, white blood cell count, cortisol. And you can get essentially you go to their platform and they'll help you get all these things checked. You go get a blood test and then everything is localized in one place and they'll give you all these recommendations for how to sort of move forward once you have all those answers. But routine physicals can often skip a lot of these things. So you now can kind of get them all checked at once. It gives you access again to 100 plus biomarkers. And if I needed this, this is the one that I would absolutely use. And I do think we all need this. Why not check out what's going on in your body? Learn more and join using our link Function is a near 360 degree view to see what's happening in your body. And our first 1000 listeners get a $100 credit towards their membership. Visit functionhealth.com GGE or use gift code GGE100 at signup to own your health.

[B]

Okay. And we all know prices are going up on just about everything lately. I feel like we find ourselves noticing this all the time. Absolutely. From flights to lattes, and are just like, how are people doing? It's rough out here. So it's, you know, money can be stressful. Dealing with money can be stressful. And you're trying to manage subscriptions, track spending, and cut costs. That can all feel overwhelming. Rocket Money is here to help. They can relieve some of that stress and help you feel confident in the financial decisions you make. So we talk about this a lot, but if you aren't familiar, it is more than just managing those subscriptions. So we're going to tell you about it today. It is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel those unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. They show all your expenses in one place, including those subscriptions you forgot about. The dashboard lays out your total financial picture. We really love it. It's really easy to use, and we really love the simplicity of it. It shows your bill due dates, paydays in a way that's really easy to digest and navigate. You can even automatically create custom budgets based on your past spending. So if you really are like, I got to figure this out. I got to figure out what my budget looks like and how I can save and spend and splurge. They will help you with that. They'll even try to negotiate lower bills for you. They're going to scan your bills to find opportunities to save, and then they'll get to work to get you better deals. They will talk to customer service on your behalf. Oh, we love that. And their 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. So cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com GGE today. That's RocketMoney.com GGE RocketMoney.com GGE okay, and.

[A]

My favorite bras and underwear. I mean, I just think about my boobs all the time, all day, every day, honestly. And what they're going to be in and skims is just my absolute favorite. And it has allowed bras and underwear, for me at least, to not be an afterthought. I like the style I like the comfort, I like the fit. They have tons of different sizes and colors and everything that you could ever want. And I sleep in their bras. I sleep in the Fits everybody bra. They have a lace unlined version. I actually love the online versions cause they're see through and they're fun for nudes, honestly. And they have great underwear. Just makes me feel sexy in my house. It's a bra that I never feel like I need to take off. It's underwear I sleep in. And I've always slept naked, so not anymore with skims. And it's perfect gift for yourself or somebody in your life. And they just make me feel sexy and comfy at the same time. Check out everything that they have. There is absolutely a color for you, a size, a style, a fit of anything you want. Shop our favorite bras and [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you a select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows.

[B]

Okay, so what we're discussing today came to us through an email. And it was funny because I read this email and I was like, there's so much to say. I didn't want to just respond. Like, I mean, there's so much nuance and we'll get into it. And you didn't see it for a while. And I was like, reina, did you see that email that like. And you were like, what email? And I told you the subject line. And I was like, get into it. And you were like, oh, we could do a whole episode on this.

[A]

We were talking about doing for an intro versus an episode. And I just started like typing stuff into the outline and I was like, I could talk about this forever. So, you know, it's the type of email that we get a lot. It's sort of a should I stay or should I go email. And Ashley and I like to feel that advice is very nuanced depending on, you know, are you married or not? Do you have kids or not? What do you want for your life? What is your financial situation like? So for everybody that asks us that, there's a different answer to that question. And ultimately all you can do is answer that question for yourself. But there was so much to unpack and we get these questions and so we wanted to read you the email. There's lots of details and then we'll kind of break it down because I think that so many of us have asked ourselves in quote unquote, healthy Decent enough relationships. Is this enough for me?

[B]

Yeah. And I hope this helps her. I mean, we certainly did not feel comfortable writing back a like one line, one paragraph even response. We wanted to discuss this. I don't know what decision she has made. I feel for her. You can feel her desperation coming through. She says, I'm desperate, help me. And I will check in with her. Obviously, I just appreciate her sending this and sharing and we're going to keep it as anonymous as we can, obviously. But her story is plenty of other people's story as well, but her specifically. I just. I hope this helps and we wish her all the best.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, I am somebody who ended in engagement and I can look at my life through the lens now of what if I would have married that person and what my life would be like? And you and I are at a point in our lives that a lot of our friends, I mean, a pretty good handful of people we know have ended their marriages and have moved on. And I can look at their lives through the lens of it and say, like, a lot of those people are happier today than they were.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And so there is light on the other side. But every person that would ask me.

[B]

What do I do?

[A]

I'd give them a different answer. So I guess we could stop teasing this email and just read it. But do you wanna read it?

[B]

Yeah, sure. Okay. I mean, the subject line says married young. Now I'm 28 and idk wtf to do. She said, I'm begging for help. I'm gonna try and provide as much detail as possible without writing a novel. Still happy to share anything further. So she says the scene, is engaged at 22, was married at 23 to a truly great guy. I'm currently 28. We've been together for nearly a decade. We have the most amazing time and we've truly built an incredible life. I'll paraphrase some of this for you guys. They have a great friend group, they have pets, they obviously they have a house together. She says, I do love him. However, recently I've been thinking, do I really love him or do I love my life and he just happens to be in it? As I reflect, I've noticed that most of our social plans, friends, routines in life, et cetera, are because of me. You could absolutely say, how lucky are you to have someone who supports you so unconditionally? While that is true, I can't help but think what part of my life is because of him. I've thoroughly appreciated the support. However, sometimes you need more than just support. I'm extremely communicative to him. We never fight and so I wanted to talk to him about it. However, it's just who he is. How can I say your personality is a bit boring and I wish you were more extroverted. In my defense, when we first met he was with all his college friends and I thought he was extremely extroverted. That's not the case post college. On top of being uncertain, never having lived on my own, feeling the hottest and most confident I've ever felt. We love that. Already having some wariness of our current relationship, I started falling for one of my co workers. Please let me know. And I was feeling all the above before me and let's call him Luke started chatting. I have not crossed any lines. Our conversations happen casually between work questions here and there. I can't help but notice we live very similar lives. Her and the work, the co worker. We have the same interests, political views. Basically we've been doing the same things the last seven years, just not together. Doesn't hurt that he's so good looking. I can't get him out of my head. There's a lot more I could say about him, but honestly the question's not about him because there's no way he'd even be interested in me post divorce. That's not necessarily true sis, but you know. Oh, also he's 35, so he's older. She writes a man onto the question. Luke aside, what do I do? I'm living seemingly a perfect life. My husband is a fantastic partner in all the ways you should hope a partner to be. I'm just deeply lacking in him. Adding depth, character, challenge to my everyday. I want to like circle back to that that specific sentence. If we broke up, it would be a nightmare. The friend group, social life, family would be devastated. We'd have to figure out the pets so much more. However, who let me get married before my frontal lobe was closed? Seriously, who was letting this happen? That is bs. I just feel like a whole different version of myself and I just want to be single and independent for once. But then all my single friends tell me how lucky I am to be in such an amazing relationship. I am torn with what I hope is the hardest decision of my life. I'm just scared if I don't change anything, I'm going to feel this way forever. And if you girls have taught me anything, it's that there is a heck of a lot of life left to live. Please help. I'm desperate.

[A]

I feel like really emotional.

[B]

I know I also am just emotional in general. But I'm like, trying to keep it.

[A]

Together, you know, as I. I want to speak my own experience at this exact age. And, you know, there's so many things that come up where you think, I have this quote unquote, perfect life and this great on paper partner. And we've built this life together. We have a home, we have pets, and we have a community. I'm close with his family. I married this person. Is this enough for the rest of my life? And I wish somebody would have told me when I was engaged at 28 to ask myself that because I had all these voices in my head. And by the way, I, of course, did not get married. So it's a very different type of discussion. But I had all the things. I had a home with this person. And we'd been together many years. We had all the same friends and our families were close and we were so ingrained in each other's lives. And I do remember thinking, like, I'm a little bored by this. I'm unfulfilled. We don't have a great sex life, but this is a good partner. Everybody around me has these toxic relationships and they're getting cheated on. They don't have a man that wants to commit to them. And I have all these things. And I remember thinking, am I so rotten on the inside that this doesn't fulfill me? What is wrong with me that I have this and I don't wanna fuck this person? And I don't feel excited about these conversations with him. And I felt like a bad person. And you think, like, I'm gonna blow up my whole life. And I look back now and he left me. So I didn't really have a choice, but I did not know to ask the questions at that age is good enough gonna sustain me forever.

[B]

Forever.

[A]

Like, I don't know that I was even brave enough to ask that question. I don't know that anybody ever told me to ask that question. I never thought, is somebody who's kind to me but doesn't excite me, somebody who I am attracted to, but we don't really have sex. Is that good enough forever? Do I want to have children with this person and get further financially ingrained with this person? And the answer could be yes, by the way. I think it's important to acknowledge this sounds like a good person who is healthy and stable and does fit into your life well. And everybody loves them in your life. And you've built so much together and that's hard to walk away from. And I think that you don't always leave just because maybe you are a little bored right now or a little unfulfilled right now. But. But I do think we should ask the question, like if nothing changed in five years, would I. Yeah. Would I still want to stay if I met this person today, would I pick them? So anyway, sorry, that's a lot about me.

[B]

But I know, I mean you're. But you have a perfect example. And I think age is huge and I just want to get it all the way up top because I think it really matters. And I'm getting married at 42, which is clearly outside the norm and I don't want children and I. Obviously that makes a difference as well. This doesn't need to be said, but it is shocking to me that women get married in their early 20s and they do it and it works out. And I think about my college friends and most of they all got married in their 20s, some earlier, some later.

[A]

My sister in law.

[B]

Yeah, my sister in law. Exactly. I mean my brother is older, but so it can work out. It can work out forever. I mean my college friends, with the exception of one, are all still with their husbands. They've most of them, they all have two children at least, you know, so it works. I have to preface this with saying that it can work. But no, plenty of people, sure, statistically it is better to wait and the optimal age to get married and stay married is 28 to 32. So 30 is like a sweet spot and it stabilizes for women's ages about 30 to 45 and then the risk of divorce drops even lower after 45. Statistics are also showing the couples are getting divorced after 50 more than they used to. But, but that's a little outside of our listener base. We still have plenty of listens that age. But if we're talking to women in their like 20s and 30s, it also shows that the average age of divorce is 30 and the average age of years people stay together is around seven or eight. So if you put those two together, that means people are getting married at 23 and getting divorced at 30. You know, when you really do run the numbers on it in that way And I, I think that 27, you have this awakening you if you believe in the Saturn returns, but everybody goes through something at 27 and you start questioning your life decisions and who am I and what fulfills me and what am I doing with my life and your relationship. And so if I were to say get Married, at least after that. And we're going to get into way more of the nuance here and way more of her personal details. But I just think about age and do whatever you want to do. It's some women's dream. I just want to get married young, be a young mom, and it can work, but please don't feel the pressure. Like, just wait it out. Figure out who you are, you know, figure out what you're into. Build a career if that's something that you. You want to do.

[A]

I remember feeling at 28 when we did break up, oh, my God. My whole life is this person. I don't have a lot of girlfriends. I don't have a lot of interest in hobbies outside of him. I mean, I just. I hadn't traveled anywhere. I really had to, like, build a life. And he was my life, and I was happy with that. He was a wonderful, kind person. We had a great life together, but I didn't really have a big life outside of him. And it felt a little bit suffocating. I just. I don't have anything else outside this person. I had, like, enough friends, but, like, certainly not what I have now. And I can certainly look back at my life now and say, you know, I created a whole big life outside of this, and I'm proud of it. But, you know, a couple things. This whole quote unquote, perfect life is an illusion. If you're not happy within it, you know, everybody else in the world can say to you, it's hard out there. It's tough. You know, you found a good person. Hang on to it. None of those people have to live your life for the next 40 years. So it's not perfect if you're not enjoying it. And, I don't know, you have to ask yourself, is, like, good enough, enough for me? It might be. It might be like, okay, you write a checklist of a partner. We don't all get every single thing we want. And that's why we have friends and hobbies and interests and jobs that we like. And it's not, not fair to ask one person to be everything. So I don't know how is good enough enough. Ask yourself how good it is. You know, I think it's okay to outgrow people. Like you said, you are a different person.

[B]

You're just a different person. That's my point, you know, like, that's what I really feel like. You start to figure out who you are at 30, and sometimes you are with your partner that you've been with since you were, I mean, 18, 19 or 22. And sometimes you're married, sometimes you're not, and they are able to grow with you and you're really lucky. Lucky. And we see it all the time and it happened. So I just can't stress it enough. And I'm not shaming her for getting married young, but she's the one that wrote in the email, I got married young. You know, like, I think she's starting to run the tape on like, I'm a different person. And so is he. I knew him in college, I knew him as a guy with friends in college and now he's. We have not grown in the right direction. Like I literally picture it visually of you growing apart into different people. And when we talk, talk about age and I'll shut up about age in a minute, but you know, like, really, I think that 30 is a great age. And I look at you at 28, you started a whole new life. Like it's crazy to even remember who we were in our 20s because we're completely different people. I'm a different person than I was in my 30s. It's really what a hot take that we. The growth.

[A]

I look at my brother and sister in law and they met at 22. And every time I describe them, I always do that thing with my hands where I say that they grew in the same direction. And. And I think it is such a beautiful thing that these two have been together 15 years and they're like a limb to the other person. You couldn't amputate it. And what a beautiful thing to be with somebody who has truly watched you grow up and watched you grow in the same direction. And I remember when my fiance and I broke up, I remember saying to my mom, nobody that I'm with will ever have known me growing up now. Nobody will ever see who I was and who I am now. And that was a real fear. I really liked that he watched me grow up a little bit and my mom said to me, like, it's nice to meet people who are fully formed and you're more fully formed and you can kind of see what the future is gonna be for that person and how they're gonna socialize because you're in a different era of your life. And I just think about the people I was with in my 20s and I saw my ex fiance what a year ago and he's a wonderful person. He is for somebody else, but I would not choose him today.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, you really run the risk of not Knowing who this person's gonna be. And I think about this when I think about my college girlfriends. But everybody's friends, whoever. People in the world who got married sub 25 and when you were drinking so much more and you were just always getting drunk together and that was part of your life. And then we, some of us outgrow it and some of us don't. I. I think I outgrew it to the extreme where I was such a big heavy drinker, binge drinker, and now I'm just don't. And it's. It's not something I would look for in a partner. Even close friends. And you see couples, and I know couples personally, where one partner outgrew those habits and one didn't. And it becomes a real point of contention. And it's like. But they were on the same page in their 20s, like we, we all are. And that's just like one example. But with her and anyone who shares her story or anything similar, like, this does not have to be an immediate decision. I don't know how long she's been feeling like this. She didn't specifically say. It sounds like it's been a while. And then the co worker thing just kind of came into the mix while she was already having these doubts. But I wouldn't make a rash decision with your marriage and with your home and your pets and all this stuff and your family and your friends. Like, keep thinking about this and talking about it with people you trust or a professional, and I think you'll hit a breaking point. I mean, again, I don't know how long this is, but you don't have to make this decision right now. Like, take a little bit of the pressure off. I don't have to decide today if I want to stay married to this person. Like, I can feel her desperation, I guess. And I don't know if she's worried she's going to cheat, but like, it feels like really like I need an answer from us who are people she trusts, which it is such an honor, but you can relax a little and think over this more and figure out what you value and what you want. And if I were to guess I see a world in which they don't make it. I think she wants something different than he can provide. But there could be a world in which they do stay together. And she looks back on this time is just like, I don't know what I was thinking. You know, I don't know.

[A]

I wonder if this is a feeling of like, I can't unring the bell. I've had this thought, and now I see everything he does through this lens of he's boring and we're not socially aligned anymore. And I think it's really scary to admit to yourself that we have both evolved and evolved in different directions. And there's so many different things that you can. Like, when do we want to have kids? How do we feel politically? How do we want to socialize?

[B]

How do we want to live?

[A]

You add this other guy into the mix, and she's seeing, you know, the grass is a little greener, maybe on the other side, and she feels hotter than she's ever felt. Maybe this person she's been with for a long time isn't as spicy and exciting anymore. And I love what you said. And I had the same note that, like, it's not a rash decision. It's a marriage. I would give people very different advice in a marriage. You know, I think you and I have had quite a few friends that have gone through divorces, and they were long conversations and a lot of therapy and a lot of what we won't.

[B]

We.

[A]

And I think that, like, we've evolved in different directions. That's. That's a thing. That's the starting point and saying, like, are there some ways we can evolve together? Are there some things we can do separately and still feel fulfilled? And like, we get the excitement we need outside of the marriage, like take girls trips and have hobbies and interests. But also, can we evolve some way in the same direction but ongoing conversation?

[B]

Well, I don't know if they've had a conversation. I'm a little confused because she says we never fight, and so I wanted to talk to him about this. However, it's just who he is. How can I say your personality is a bit boring and I wish you were this and that. It does not sound like they have. You gotta tell your partner you don't have to do it tomorrow, that you're feeling a certain type of way in the relationship. He might have be feeling certain feelings too, and it might be this huge sense of relief. And it can bring you closer together. If you realize that you've both been having doubts about the relationship. I'm gonna side with her and that she knows her partner and that she just is like, how can I say this to him? I can't tell him. You can say something, you know, and again, I. I really want to tread so lightly. Could they take a break? You know, could. Could she just be like, I'm feeling these things And I don't know what to do. And I. I love you and I don't want to get divorced. And like, is there a world in which, I mean, taking a break, it's. It's touchy. I think of the book we read. I mean, it was a fictional book, but it was by Taylor Jenkins Reid and it's called After I Do. She should read that book. I mean, it's a fictional book, but it's about this couple and they're feeling a certain type way and they separate. And I'm not going to give it away and spoil it, but, I mean, I don't think you hold this in.

[A]

I'm going to guess that she decided he was boring and has tried to lead by example a little bit. She's like, you know, let's take a trip, let's go out to dinner. Let's find interesting hobbies. I'm just going to guess that before she has just. I would hope, like, before you tell somebody to their face, I think you're a little boring. This is a little boring. Socially, I'm a little bored. I would hope that you have tried to do a few more things. Have you mentioned, like, I just wish we, like, went out to dinner once a week or could have a shared hobby. You know, these are constructive, easy things to do at first. If that didn't work, you gotta talk to your partner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, and you can say, I am feeling bored.

[B]

Not you are bored, for sure. I mean, the Luke thing is like a symptom of the problem. I don't think that's. That's could be. That could be her man. I don't think that's like the person she should be with. I think it's just he's coming at a time. But it is illuminating to her that she is feeling this type of way about somebody.

[A]

You know, I. I felt a little unfulfilled with my fiance. I've certainly ever cheated on him. But I did feel a little emotionally and intellectually bored. That's not a nice thing to say. But yeah, you do start to just look for stuff outside to be like, can I get this hit somewhere else? And I'm proud of her for not acting on it. I never acted on it either. But like, like, you're only human. The thought does occur.

[B]

Right. And the thing I said, I said I wanted to go back to the sentence. I'm just deeply lacking in him, adding depth, character and challenge to my everyday. So I do want to always say that your partner will not be Your everything. You know, they're not gonna give you every single thing you want. That's what your friends and your family and these different things are for. You have to figure out what it is important that they do add. I do want my partner to be intellectually stimulating, go on adventures with me, make me laugh. I'm with him all the time. I can't be bored by him. But I do make more of our plans and our social stuff. That's just what I do. That's what my mom does. I mean, I think of my parents and, you know, my mom has a million friends and my dad just doesn't have that type of life. He has his own stuff going on and he always has. So we are a little different in that way. But my fiance also is along for the ride and lets. Lets me be. And I guess, you know, if she wants somebody that's so social, like, you might not get that with all that support that her current husband. Her current husband is offering her. You know, you're just be realistic about what you can get from one person. And if you've listened to this podcast, we've talked about it, like the personality traits that go together that complement each other, you don't. You don't get it all. So I just want to be clear again, I'm not in defense of them staying together. I think she wants more.

[A]

Is it a situation where you're the social engine in the relationship and it's kind of annoying, or are you completely socially mismatched? Is your partner refusing to go to the things that you want to go to? Do you go to a party and they want to leave as soon as you get there? Are they not engaging with other people in the room and that bothers you? And I think for me personally, I mean, somebody said to me recently that that was a problem in their marriage, that they kind of wanted to be really private and didn't really want to go out, go to events and things and that it was a real issue in their marriage. And I could see it being a real issue for me in a relationship. I am really social and I like to go out. But I also get a lot of value from being with my friends. So I could see being like, okay, at home. I have this person who is solid, who I trust, who's a wonderful person and supports me emotionally and is a lot of fun when the two of us are together. And if I want to go out in rage or go to a concert or go to sporting event, I'll go with my Friends. I guess it's one size fits one. I would have to know like exactly what that person was like day to day.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, if she read an article and wanted to talk to him about it, would he just be interested? Would he have a conversation with her? I mean, we talked about this with Liz Moody. I mean, I've never been in a 10 year relationship. I can't speak on it. You know, things change. Things change after 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. So is there a world in which you get him to have more of those challenging, fun conversations? Like have you guys just hit a point where it's gotten a little stale and you can do things to spice it back up? I, again, I. My gut is telling me that maybe this couple is not a fit any longer, but I'm still wanting her to think through all of these things because I don't want her to make a decision that she regrets. So, you know, she's saying like with, with Luke, we have similar lives, we have the same interest, political views. I mean, makes me wonder about her husband and his political views. But it sounds to me she's having more exciting interactions with this person. But that's also a new person compared to her man she's been with for 10 years, since they were 18 or whatever the fuck.

[A]

So you hear every person that has an affair say, like, they don't understand me like you do. It's like, cause they don't see you through the lens that I see you through. So you know, you're never gonna have the Spark with your 10 year long partner that you have with a brand new person. But there are sacrifices to be made for comfort, for intimacy, for deep levels of depth with another person. And sure, there's some people that still have a crazy spark after a decade, and I hope that for everybody, but you know, the spark will die a little bit. And I would not make decisions based on, there's other people in the world that I feel like this about. But if you're just like, I miss feeling like that and it's really important, then you're allowed to look at yourself and say, I had a 10 year long relationship and that is really valuable. That it's hard to do. A lot of people cannot do that. And it is not a failure to say, I have outgrown this.

[B]

Yeah, let's talk about the fallout if they were to break up. But let's just take a quick break and talk about our other partners and we will pick it back up. This episode is Brought to you by Saks Fifth Avenue. We love to talk about Saks. We've been talking about sax for your wedding. Oh, my God, yes. So we love it. And you can find everything on there. You can find all your fall trends. If you want animal prints, you want your coats. I'm such a slut for coats. I can't wait to get on there. Even though we don't get to wear them that much. Light jackets for us, but coats for those of you on the east coast, like Raina, and just all the things that you're gonna want. Your denim. And they have, of course, all clothing of every type. Your dresses, your shoes, your bags, jewelry, accessories, beauty, kids, home. They really have everything. And we always talk about just the range of designers and the range of prices. I have mentioned recently, I was on there looking for shoes to wear to my wedding, and I've sent a couple dresses from Saks to guests who have asked me for. For ideas and inspo. Yeah, and you can just get stuff for date nights, for work, vacations, workouts, lounging at home. I'm looking at their new arrivals now. Oh, my gosh. A corduroy skirt. Right now I gotta get a corduroy skirt for the fall. That's on my list, these incredible jeans. So I want to get some of those really soft jeans that you always wear, too. Who makes them rag and bone?

[A]

Yeah, I have in my bag.

[B]

Yeah, I'm about to change into them again. Oh, my God. This is a Vago. Every week, I just put up a gown for you guys to drool over. What? That's so beautiful. If someone doesn't wear this to my wedding, I'm gonna be pissed. But we just love it. And you can find everything. And they. If you're in store, they can help you with a personal stylist. And on their site as well, they can just kind of guide you so you guys can check it out. Shopping should be fun and easy. So head to Saks Fifth Avenue or. Or saks.com for inspiring ways to elevate your personal style every day. Saks.com okay.

[A]

And this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. And October 10th is World Mental Health Day. And this year, we are saying thank you to therapists. We know we have a lot of therapists that listen to the show and better help. Therapists have helped over 5 million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. There's millions of stories, millions of journeys behind every therapist who showed up, listened, and helped someone take a step forward in these moments of therapy to Ask the right questions and provide a safe space to cry. Thank you to those people have dedicated their life to this. And BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct. They're fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work so you can focus on your therapy goals. So there's a short questionnaire when you get in there. It's going to help identify your needs and preferences. And they have 12 plus years of experience in industry leading match fulfillment rate and they typically get it right the first time. But if you guys aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time. There's tailored recs for you. So no matter what you're going for, if you just really want to figure out what your goals are for the future, why there's a deficit in your love life, your professional life or this, this email that we're talking about right now.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Speaking of therapy, guide her to go to therapy. Yeah. With over 30,000 therapists, better help is the world's largest online therapy platform. So this World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who have helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10 off their first month at betterhelp.com GGE that's BetterHelp.

[B]

H-E-L-P.com GG okay, Helix Reina. This past trip of mine, I feel like really was next level. Like, but I went to Philly.

[A]

I've been sleeping bad.

[B]

Yeah, I was in Philly. I had to go to Florida to come back. I had to wake up at 4am like I couldn't even believe it. So when I got home, yeah, yesterday and slept last night in my Helix bed, I've never slept. The second my head hit the pillow, I was out. Did not wake up till I, till this morning.

[A]

I'm sleeping so bad. I've been living in hotels and people's apartments and the minute I got home last night, just crashed these hotel beds.

[B]

I had this pain in my back like from a nap I took in San Diego and I have not recovered since. Shoulder blade. Yeah, like right back there. Oh my gosh.

[A]

So it's our Helix Master Sh. We just, we love them so, so, so much.

[B]

I know. So I have the midnight Lux, which I cannot recommend enough and I previously had the moonlight Lux and I also have one of those in my guest bedroom. My best friend has the dusk Lux. My best Friend Corey and her husband, my brother and his wife, they have one of the big and tall mattresses. I'm not sure which one, but they have so many different mattresses you guys can choose from. But I always say not too many. It's not going to be overwhelming. You're going to get on their site, you're going to take a little quiz, and they're going to match you to a mattress that will give you the best sleep of your life. They have the standard mattresses, which are great, of course, then they have the luxe and then the elite, and they can really improve your sleep, whatever you're dealing with, if you have a sleep issue, if you're snoring, back pain, sleep apnea, sleeping too hot. And again, when you take the quiz, they'll ask if you sleep in your back or stomach or side, or if you move around a lot. And we just. I mean, we talk about this over and over and over for years. These are the mattresses we sleep on. We make all of our family and friends get. So if we go to visit them, they have them too, and we just can't imagine our lives without them. So they really can help you guys sleep better. And if you track your sleep on your Apple, watch your aura ring, you will notice, hopefully, you know, if you sleep better, you're going to notice a difference, and hopefully Helix will help you sleep better. Also, the pillows, the best pillows I've ever slept on in my life.

[A]

Obsessed.

[B]

They're truly the best. So you guys can go to helix sleep.com GGE for 25% off sitewide. That is helixsleep.com GGE for 25 percent off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com GGE so, you know, I.

[A]

Think one of the biggest questions that people ask themselves in this situation is what is the fallout gonna be like? You know, we. We have built a lot of. A lot of life together. We have a home, we have pets, we have all these friends, and our families are ingrained in each other's lives and. And what is gonna happen? And I wanna talk about this from having been that age when it happened to me, and also at 40, having watched a number of our friends get divorces, and every single person says, you know, of course, am I happy?

[B]

Blah, blah, blah.

[A]

But what is this fallout really gonna be? Like a decade to undo this, like this spiderweb, and it is so frightening. I get it. It's a lot of details in terms of, of course, the pets and the house and the stuff. And then what is everybody gonna think? Who's gonna get the friends? Am I ever gonna talk to their family again? I mean, it's so many questions to ask. And I wanna say, like, everybody I know that's split up and gotten divorced has asked the same question. And it can be a little messy. Sure, it's messy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But they are all fine. No one cares about you as much as you think they do and what you've done. People get divorced. It happens. People break up. No one's judging you. Nobody thinks you failed. That is narratives that we tell ourselves. The people in your life want you to be happy and they wanna support you together or separate. But hopefully your friends and families just love you and want to see you guys succeed, whether it's together or apart. And I know it's just. It's so scary, but everybody else asks themselves those questions, and you rebuild. You get a new home, you figure out how to split the pets, you figure out how to split the friends. I know it's awkward. I get it. It's a lot to just say goodbye to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, my fiance was my entire life. I mean, I had. I don't wanna say I had, like, nothing after that, but, like, it was like a giant house of cards that just toppled over one day. It was just over. And who gets the friends? And who do I talk to about this that also knows him? Is it gonna get back to him? Am I gonna make him look bad and fuck him? Cause he left me, so I don't care. But I was in a different type of situation. But I really wanna validate and honor that. This is probably the scariest question that people ask themselves. What is the fallout?

[B]

Of course. But think about what could be on the other side. And what's the quote? Nothing worth having comes easy. Is that a quote?

[A]

Does it apply here?

[B]

No, I'm just saying it's hard. And the payoff is you're happier and you aren't spiraling about this every day. And you're not meeting people you have crushes on and thinking about them and cheating and this and that. Not that I think she's actually gonna cheat, whatever. She might, but it just. It does suck. And there's so many things. I mean, I don't wanna compare anything in my life to a divorce, because I haven't been through that. But there's just been things throughout our lives, our careers, where I. They felt so insurmountable. And, like, how would we ever do that how will we. How could we possibly accomplish this? What will we need to do? It's going to be such a mess. It's going to be so much stress or time and. Or money or whatever it is, and then you just do it. And there's been so many examples. I think about this a lot when I'm like, God, I really overreacted. And I'm not. This is a divorce, and it's a lot. And it's 10 years, like you said, of a web to unravel. But you will get through it, and you'll just. Once you're in it, you'll do it. And you'll take every day at a time and you will figure it out and you'll come out on the other side again, just validating that it can feel like there's no way. There's no way I'd rather just stay in this marriage. And this is talking to anybody, not just her, anyone that's feeling this way, and anyone, whether this is hurt or not, that knows in their heart, in their gut that they need to end this relationship. But it's going to be so difficult. But you will be able to get through it. And once you are in it, doing all the things that, yes, will suck, you will be like, this is doable. I can do it.

[A]

I get really emotional when you talk about it because, like, I think about when we broke up, and I was in so much pain, I thought I was going to die. I. I couldn't imagine a day where I would feel 5% less pain. I was so devastated, and my whole life crashed, and it was just like, what am I gonna do here? And I wanna say to that girl, you're gonna have a better life, and you're gonna make other people have a better life. And I don't know if this girl will choose to have the life that I had, but I look back at how much pain that girl was in at 28 and thinking that her whole life was gonna die without this man. And I've, like, gone on to build this, like, totally other thing, and I can look back at it and say, like, thank God. Thank God for the pain and for him being so brave to leave me. And look what I get to have and what I get to do and the things I've gotten to experience. And none of that would have been possible had we not broken up. And I'm not encouraging her to break up with my husband.

[B]

This is a bigger conversation.

[A]

This is my own journey, my own life. But, you know, if what you're worried about is the fallout. People will move on, and you will move on, and you will create a great life for yourself. Because, girl, you already have a great life. You said it yourself. You've all these friends, you've all these interests and hobbies. You look hot. You're excited and confident. Like, you will go have a great life because you are you.

[B]

I know. I love that. Go off. It just. It really, like. I mean, my breakup wasn't like yours, obviously, you were like this, But I just remember thinking, like, this is over, and I'm gonna move to New York. What am I. How. What do I do with my stuff? You know, even us, like, moving to la, like, these things again, I can't stress enough. I'm not comparing the two, but they feel insurmountable in the moment. I'm gonna uproot my life that I've been here for 10 years. I'm gonna move to New York City. I'm gonna live in a shitty apartment. Like, all these things are, like, literally how. And then little piece by piece, you will tackle those things. And now I'm just giving it a motivational speech for anything you want to do that feels hard, but we can do hard things. That's not an original quote.

[A]

It's the name of Glennon Doyle's podcast. And if you choose to stay, I think that there's value in fighting for something. And you and I have watched people fight for relationships they really did not want to end and come out on the other side and learn how to communicate with each other and how to find a common ground and feel happy again. And I just think that, like, life is long, and you do have to, like, choose to be happy, and you need to choose whatever path is gonna bring you the most happiness.

[B]

Yeah. And think about what it looks like to be out of this relationship.

[A]

Maybe you have.

[B]

If I'm talking directly to her, visualize it. What does my life look like? How do I feel? I mean, I'm sure she's done this, but if we're gonna go big picture and talk to anybody struggling with any decision, think about, if you rip the band aid off you. You pull the trigger. How does it feel? You. You know how it feels. We do this all the time. Like, if something. We think on smaller scales, on larger scales, if we decide to do a thing or not do a thing, how do we feel when we think about that? And if it's relief, you know the answer. And again, if this is with. With anything, and she could have a conversation with him about the way that she's feeling, and that could really help guide her. She might feel totally different right now. She's just keeping this in. She's keeping this mind in from the person that she's closest with. So even understanding, even getting it out there, even kind of thinking, like, maybe I'm gonna do this, could reframe how she's feeling about it and guide her.

[A]

I like that you said that. It will be a watershed moment. This may be one of the worst things you have to say to somebody, one of the biggest fights you ever have with somebody. But, I mean, I always said, because I've had to learn how to manage conflict, the fights that I've had with people have made our relationships better, not worse. Or they've ended them. But either way, I have, like, a pretty good answer, and it's propelled me forward to at least live my truth. And you can't just live in silence and suffer like this forever. You are gonna have to say something to him, and it will be really painful, and it'll suck. And you probably go to therapy and talk through this for a long time. But, you know, as sad as I was when my relationship ended, the sense of relief was also there. I don't have to pretend to be interested in this shit anymore. I don't have to have this, like, lukewarm sex once every 10 days where I walk into the bathroom and I look at myself in the mirror, and I'm like, okay, I checked the box, right? You know, I. I got to go live all these experiences, and I wouldn't trade that for having been with him for the last 12 years.

[B]

I know. I know. Yeah. I mean, you do not have to tell him. I think you're boring. I mean, you can even say things that we've said. I think we're growing in two different directions. I don't know if we want the same type of life. I don't know where they stand on kids. Do not get pregnant while you're dealing with this. Don't have kids with anybody, anytime, anyone listening that you are not in a rock solid, 100% certain relationship with. I will die on that hill. Babies don't fix relationships.

[A]

It's the hardest thing you will ever do.

[B]

The hardest thing you will do to.

[A]

Have a child with somebody else.

[B]

100%.

[A]

It's harder than anything that I've ever done. That's why I can't do it.

[B]

No. I'm not strong enough.

[A]

I've done a lot of stuff that is really scary, but I can't do that.

[B]

I've done enough Mariah Carey. So. Yeah, I think mention this soft launch it. I. I'm worried we're growing in different directions. What do you think? Start there. You know, I love you. You're the best partner I could imagine. You're so supportive. You're this and you're that and our friends and our pets and our house and whatever. But like, I can't shake this feeling that we're just not the same people we were at 19 and we're growing in a different direction. And what do you think? And if he's like, what, what, what? I don't know.

[A]

What?

[B]

I don't know. What are you saying? What are you saying? If he freaks out? Okay, just. I want to walk a par. You don't just. And if he's like, okay, can you provide an examples? I mean, then you can kind of really gently say some of these things, but it's all going to be gentle and with love and it might be really helpful and illuminating with the decision making process. Unless she's something already, which I'll check in.

[A]

I mean, even still, listen, we are imperfect people. Lots of people have affairs. I don't sanction them. I just, I think that life is Luke right now. Her and Luke are listening to this podcast.

[B]

I write her back. I'm like, hey, I just want to let you know that we talked about this. And she's like, I divorced and took a whole load. I just. Luke on the copy machine and I'm getting divorced.

[A]

I would want to. On a copy machine. You didn't go copier. You went coffee machine. Tell me, Ashley's never been to a professional office before.

[B]

Is that not what they're doing?

[A]

Coffee machines.

[B]

Coffee.

[A]

You said coffee machine.

[B]

I meant. I said copy.

[A]

Okay. I was like, how did she not go copier on the Keurig? I was like, like that TikTok challenge.

[B]

On the coffee machine.

[A]

Balancing on the Keurig.

[B]

That's how much I love coffee. I want to fuck on the machine. That thing we have in there, that coffee machine.

[A]

Well, listen, I really. Ashley and I, we both wish her best of luck. And anybody in this should I stay, should I go? Type of situation, because I know that it's probably eating you alive and it's nuanced and you can take your time. You don't have to make a decision right now or fuck Luke right now, but just, you know, be kind to yourself and understand that lots of people have gone through this and they've processed it and they've come out on the other end of it better, happier, stronger, more fulfilled. Not hating the other person, you know?

[B]

Yeah. And read Taylor Jenkins. Read after I do. And while you're reading it, think about what you want to happen because you will feel a certain type of way reading that book. That book is gutting. It's hard for some people to read if they're in a relationship. Like, you'll know immediately the way the book starts. The way the book starts is crazy. They're like fighting in a parking lot. Like, it is so real. And as you're reading it, you'll know, like, do I want them to get back together or not?

[A]

There's also therapy.

[B]

But read the fiction also. Also better help. But get that book.

[A]

She's.

[B]

Get the book.

[A]

Get the book.

[B]

I'll send her the book.

[A]

I love that book.

[B]

So good that that's. That book. I made me feel things like, of all her books, like, it is so intense.

[A]

I know. I bought it at who cares where I bought a book. That's the new book. I bought it at McNally Jackson in New York City. I didn't know Taylor Jenkins Reid had this book. And I loved it. And every single under the radar, every single chapter made me feel a thing.

[B]

Yeah, you'll feel the things. Well, again, thank you to her for writing and all you guys, whenever you write. And we apologize if you've poured your heart out and you haven't gotten a response. We haven't discussed it. We made it a whole episode. Yeah, exactly. But we always appreciate you guys guys sharing with us. And we love you. We want the best for you.

[A]

Yeah. We love all of our children. We just don't want any of our own. Yeah, no, maybe. I don't know.

[B]

We love mothering you all. And girls gotta eat dot com. You guys can get tickets to our holiday shows in New York and LA and then all the shows that I mentioned. My last week of my tour, the Sex before marriage tour. Ash Hess.com and we are girls. Got a podcast on Instagram and Tick Tock. You guys can Watch us on YouTube. Full episodes on YouTube every single week. And. And we will not have an episode of the Snack this Thursday for obvious reasons. We got a lot going on so we are gonna take that week off. So, you know, listen to an old one and we will see you Monday.

[A]

Have a great weekend, guys.

[B]

By Sa.