How to Manage, Invest, and Make More Money with Tori Dunlap

Summary

Podcast Summary: Girls Gotta Eat – "How to Manage, Invest, and Make More Money with Tori Dunlap"

Date: April 14, 2025
Hosts: Ashley Hesseltine & Rayna Greenberg
Guest: Tori Dunlap (Founder, Her First $100K; Host, Financial Feminist Podcast; Author, Financial Feminist)
Podcast Theme: Finance, financial empowerment for women, money psychology, practical strategies for saving, investing, earning more, and overcoming money shame.

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Episode Overview

In a lively, candid, and informative episode, Ashley and Rayna welcome finance powerhouse Tori Dunlap to unpack the taboo, challenges, and actionable strategies around women and money. From personal money memories to the psychology of financial behaviors, the episode provides both practical tools and deeper insight into the ways societal narratives shape women’s relationships with money. Packed with actionable steps—from budgeting and building emergency funds, to debt payoff hacks, salary negotiation tactics, and approachable investing—the episode emphasizes financial education as an essential tool of empowerment and protest for women in a changing world.

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [24:43] – Guest Tori Dunlap is welcomed; introduction to her background
• [26:11–29:03] – Tori’s origin story & motivation for financial feminism
• [30:44] – Money psychology: Unpacking our first money memories
• [36:42] – The gendered shame and narratives around spending
• [41:14] – The Ostrich Effect: Burying our heads in the sand about money
• [42:02] – Actionable Step 1: Automating savings
• [48:36] – Budgeting for real life: The "3-Bucket Budget"
• [54:23] – Setting financial priorities: Emergency funds and debt payoff
• [56:54] – Debt Repayment Hack: Principal-only payments & negotiating rates
• [66:15] – Salary negotiation: Scripts and strategy for women
• [75:17] – Credit card perks & responsible use
• [78:54] – Cutting overconsumption: Spend on what matters
• [85:40] – Investing 101: Why and how women should start
• [94:43] – Navigating fear, uncertainty, and stock market dips
• [104:04] – Audience responses: What people spend money on that improves their life

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Money Is Taboo—And That’s the Problem

• Tori highlights that, even today, women are more likely to talk about sex than money, keeping money education opaque and shame-filled.
  • “We’re actually more likely to talk about sex than we are about money. Money is the most taboo topic." – Tori [25:26]
• Financial education is presented as a radical act: "A financial education is your best form of protest." – Tori [28:33]

2. Money Psychology Starts in Childhood

• Most personal finance behaviors are driven by psychology, not math.
  • "Everybody thinks that personal finance is about math... It’s about psychology." – Tori [30:59]
• By age seven, most money habits are set, shaped by observations and narratives from parents. The hosts and Tori share candid stories of their own early money memories, showing how deep these scripts run.

3. Women Face Unique Financial Narratives and Shame

• Society frames women as irresponsible spenders—on “frivolous” things—while encouraging men to grow wealth.
  • "Men are taught... expand, make more money, invest.... The advice for women is scrimp, save, become the most miserable version of you." – Tori [37:10]
• Women are conditioned to feel shame and justify their purchases. Tori encourages extracting shame from spending ("Yeah, I bought this. So what?").

4. The Ostrich Effect – Ignoring the Numbers

• Most women who come to Tori admit, “I don’t know what’s going on because I’m too scared to look.” [40:24]
• The solution: You need a "gas gauge" for your money—a simple budgeting system and automated systems to build savings.

5. Actionable Step 1: Automate Your Savings

• Even $20/month, direct-deposited from checking to savings, builds the "pay yourself first" muscle and reduces guilt/fear.
  • "Set up an automatic transfer to your savings at least once a month." – Tori [42:02]

6. Budgeting – Three Buckets for Sanity and Freedom

• Tori's “Three Bucket Budget”:
  1. Expenses: Non-negotiables (rent, groceries)
  2. Goals: Automated savings and debt repayment
  3. Fun: Spend guilt-free on things that matter to you (restaurants, travel, whatever fits your values)
• "Do the hard thing first—set aside savings—and then the rest can be spent on what you love." [53:11]

7. Financial Priorities – Emergency Fund First

• Regardless of debt, everyone needs an emergency fund (“F-off money”) to escape jobs/relationships.
  • At least three months of living expenses, in a high-yield savings account. [54:25]

8. Smart Debt Repayment Hacks

• Always request "principal-only" payments on debt to slash interest compounding.
• Negotiate lower rates; never be afraid to call the company and state you’re financially struggling for better terms. [60:19]

9. Credit Cards: Danger and Power

• Use credit cards for perks, points, and building credit—like a debit card. "Knives: they can cook you dinner or cut you."
• Perks (lounge access, insurance on lost/stolen items, travel rewards) can be invaluable—often pay for the annual fee if maximized. [75:55]

10. Investing 101: Simpler Than They Let On

• The industry profits from making investing seem complicated ("It’s job security for Wall Street bros").
• Investing is two steps: (1) Deposit into an account (401K/IRA), then (2) invest in index funds (like VTI, S&P 500).
• “Only a quarter of pro stock pickers beat individual investors. You can do this yourself.” – Tori [86:27]
• Index funds: “How I became a millionaire.” [92:22]
• Start with tax-advantaged accounts, automate, diversify, and leave it alone (the “ostrich effect” works here—don’t panic-sell).

11. Salary Negotiation: Play the (Gendered) Game

• Most women under-ask for pay. The “gratitude sandwich” script:
  1. Express appreciation and excitement.
  2. “Based on market data...” ask for a range above what you want.
  3. End with, “I’d love to land on a number we can agree on together.”
• “Employers are expecting you to negotiate. It’s a skill—not negotiating is a red flag.” – Tori [72:30]

12. Spend on What Makes You Happy—and Question Everything Else

• Be relentless identifying your “value categories” (what truly brings you joy; for Tori: plants, travel, food out).
• Apply the “taco dollars” thought experiment: Would you rather have this thing or what you really value? [81:24]

13. Financial Self-Care Is Real Self-Care

• Self-care isn't just indulgence; it's the hard, boring stuff that makes life better in the long run—like looking at your finances, building habits, tackling debt. [84:24]

14. Market Volatility & Uncertainty

• Stock market crashes and global instability are frightening but not new; long-term investing is about weathering the storm.
  • “You have not lost money unless you choose to sell.” – Tori [97:00]
  • “Everything I teach is exactly what you should do in a storm as when it’s sunny.” – Tori [96:26]

15. Empowerment Is the Goal—For You, and All Women

• “A financial education is your best protest.” – Tori [28:33]

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Notable Quotes

• “When I had money, I had choices... Every option opened up to me—and that’s what I want for every woman.” – Tori [27:56]
• “Money is a learned skill. We don’t come out of the womb playing the tuba, but somehow we think we’re just supposed to know how to do this.” – Tori [35:47]
• “I don’t need you to stop spending money. I need you to stop spending money on shit you don’t care about.” – Tori [78:54]
• "Employers are expecting you to negotiate. If you don't, it's kind of a red flag." – Tori [72:30]
• “You have not lost money unless you choose to sell.” – Tori [97:00]
• “Financial education is your best form of protest.” – Tori [28:33]
• "The panic [in the market] is what he wants. Control what you can control, work to change everything else." – Tori [100:14]

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Resources Mentioned

• Tori’s book: Financial Feminist
• Her First $100K: herfirst100k.com & all socials
• Financial Feminist Podcast
• Stock Market School (Tori’s investing app): stockmarketschool.com, described at [93:10]
• Credit Card & Personal Loan recommendations: See herfirst100k.com/tools

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Audience Q&A (Fun Ending)

• Asked listeners: “What have you spent money on that improved your life?”
  Popular answers: Aura ring, therapy, fitness, robot vacuum, cleaning help, travel/experiences. [104:04]
• Tori: “How do you make that be you? Ask million-dollar questions, not $3 questions.” [106:05]

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Episode Tone

Casual, witty, and honest, with lots of laughter (“professional yappers”), pop culture references, and relatability—balanced by direct, actionable advice and clear explanations.

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For Those Who Haven’t Listened

If you want an episode that removes shame and confusion from money, tells you exactly how to start, affirms your right to want (and spend on) what matters, and drives home that your financial future is both a personal and political act—this is it. Tori empowers women to take the first step, no matter where they are, and makes it clear: you don’t have to be perfect to start taking control of your money.

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Connect With Tori

• Podcast & book: Financial Feminist
• Company: herfirst100k.com, @herfirst100k

Connect With the Hosts

• girls gotta eat.com
• IG/TikTok: @girlsgottaeatpodcast

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Tori Dunlap]

This is why we have to talk about money. This is why we have to become educated any day, but especially right now.

[Ashley Hess]

This podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Raina Greenberg]

Hi, guys.

[Ashley Hess]

Hi, guys.

[Raina Greenberg]

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

[Ashley Hess]

Welcome back. Hi. Hot episodes.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm back.

[Ashley Hess]

You're back.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'm back. We're back. We're back.

[Raina Greenberg]

I am so excited for this guest today and this episode, and you guys have requested her so much. So we have a finance episode with Tori Dunlap, and she is phenomenal.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes. But anyway, you're back.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm back in your back. You kicked off your tour, took separate.

[Ashley Hess]

Vacations, sort of work trips.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's weird. I've never been so excited for something I wasn't a part of your tour. I just. I was, like, so excited to, like, send you flowers and just, like, it was weird to, like, not be there for it, but I did other stuff.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, I've never had so much FOMO of your trip.

[Raina Greenberg]

It was good.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. I just loved it. I just. You went to Mexico City with two girlfriends, and, like, I love them, but it really was like White Lotus vibes of the three of you. I don't know why. I just pictured it like. I was like, you're. You're Jacqueline. You know, no shit. Someone has to be, you know, it was just like, you were Jacqueline, Emily was Kate, and Melanie would be Lori. That's what you guys had landed on, too.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, she had made that with our head. She was, like, quiet for a while, and then she, like, sent us that photo, and I was like, oh, you gave me Jacqueline. That's so nice.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, you got to be the Jackal slut.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'm gonna just.

[Raina Greenberg]

I've been really slutty lately. All right, well, let's just take our partners. We're gonna, like, unpack all of it. Thank you to Quince. Get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next order at quince.com GGE and Helix. Get 20% off site wide at helixsleep.com.

[Ashley Hess]

GGE and thank you to Addie. Learn more at addie.com and StoryWorth. Get $10 off your first purchase at storyworth.com GGE and thank you To Pretty Litter. Get 20% off your first order and a free cat [e-mail] GGE I did not see toy at first, and I was like, not a free cat.

[Raina Greenberg]

They're just giving them away.

[Ashley Hess]

I just didn't read toy. Like, I just was like this. Tessa, what happened here? They're like, we just want you to have the litter so bad. Even if you don't have a cat, we'll give you a cat.

[Raina Greenberg]

We'll give you a reason to get this litter. I mean, that is actually an amazing, like, long term marketing strategy. It's like, you give somebody a cat once, they buy litter for life.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, you could partner with, like, a rescue and be like, we're going to waive adoption fees if you buy a cat and then you get your first bag of litter.

[Raina Greenberg]

We should. Let's say the pretty litter. If you. You could have that idea, but, like, you should pay us for it.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm glad they're back.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, congrats on starting your tour. It's like a huge accomplishment. I'm sad I couldn't be there, but it looked really amazing as you guys.

[Ashley Hess]

Listen to this, you will have just been in Phoenix. So thank you guys for coming out in Phoenix. But, yeah, I kicked it off in Chicago. Three shows at the Den theater. I mean, it was incredible. It was just. It couldn't have been better. No notes. I mean, every show was amazing. Those are the best audiences. I mean. Oh, making these little noises.

[Raina Greenberg]

They sleeping?

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah, he's dreaming.

[Ashley Hess]

I love him so much. It was wonderful. Oscar. Aiden, a friend of mine came, opened all three shows, crushed it. I mean, he. Of course, he's super funny. And then my fiance came and, like, this thing happened where I wasn't planning to bring him up on stage or whatever, but I had a videographer come who was very attractive. The girlies were going crazy for him. He wore. He wore this insane, like, steadicam thing. He looked like the Terminator. He was like, do you want me to wear the helmet?

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm licking my lips spontaneously. What is wrong with me?

[Ashley Hess]

I know. And ra. I thought he, like, he was really great. His name is James Webb, if you guys want to look him up. And I just thought he was, like, pretty young. He was like, 39. I'm like, oh, no. I was like, thank God Raina is not here. He would not be safe. And so he goes, do you want to wear the helmet? I go, what helmet?

[Raina Greenberg]

Helmet.

[Ashley Hess]

He has this whole setup. He shoots tons of specials. He shot Samuel special. Like, he lives in New York, but he's like a Chicago guy. So he's like, I figured out some way to get this footage with the helmet. I'm like, you can't we. The helmet.

[Raina Greenberg]

You can't be. He's the security. No, he was like, daft bomb squad.

[Tori Dunlap]

It looked insane. Yes. It was Like a bomb squad.

[Ashley Hess]

So anyway, he was like, I want to get a clean shot of you walking out. Like, bottom line. He was like, let's do your walkout again at the end. If you think the audience will be down to do it. I'm like, they'll love it.

[Raina Greenberg]

You know, like, mock it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Like, redo the opening and with you guys, that we weren't shooting a special or anything, but, like, if you ever go to a shoot a special, you'll kind of see behind the curtain the way that they do things. We've seen Nikki shoot, and they're like, they'll have her do pickups. I saw Ricky Velez shoot a special. We saw Aziz special, whatever. And you get to kind of see, like, how the sausage is made or whatever. And so at the end of the show, I kind of realized that Oscar had left. He had to do another show. Like, he went and performed at the Laugh Factory. So I had nobody, like, bring me up. And then I'm like, I'll figure it out at the end. Like, I'll figure it out. They'll bring me up from the sound booth, or James will come up here and do it. And then everyone started yelling for Sparkle Eyes to. To do it. They knew he was in the audience. And so he comes up on stage. People, like, lose their mind. And he had to, like, bring me out.

[Raina Greenberg]

Is that his nightmare?

[Tori Dunlap]

No.

[Raina Greenberg]

Alone on the stage.

[Ashley Hess]

Alone on the stage. And then. Oh, get this.

[Raina Greenberg]

I tried to get him to propose to you on a stage. He was like, have you met me?

[Ashley Hess]

Right. Because he comes on stage when we were on the tour, but we're on stage with him. Whatever. He's not alone. So I just leave him on stage. And then I. I like. I'm like, you got this, babe. You got this. And then James goes, I need three minutes.

[Tori Dunlap]

We were like, what are we going to do for three minutes? So we had to, like, riff.

[Raina Greenberg]

And then, like, someone's like, two of you just on stage.

[Ashley Hess]

And I'm like, do you have any questions?

[Tori Dunlap]

And someone's like, what was the best.

[Ashley Hess]

Part of your day?

[Tori Dunlap]

I was like, probably the.

[Raina Greenberg]

I don't know.

[Ashley Hess]

The sex or the protest or.

[Tori Dunlap]

I don't know.

[Ashley Hess]

This show.

[Raina Greenberg]

This is hysterical.

[Tori Dunlap]

I know.

[Ashley Hess]

So we had this. I feel like it was a really fun moment for the audience.

[Raina Greenberg]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

It was cute. And I don't even know if we got a good shot. He brought me out. He. He didn't end with saying my name. He was like, make some noise for Ashley Hustle time from Girls Gotta eat, like, something. You also should call me, your fiance. They would have gone crazy for that. Like, whatever.

[Raina Greenberg]

Ashley, that is so funny. Are you thinking about incorporating it more?

[Ashley Hess]

No, no.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like Nate Bargazi, you know, he opened this special, like, please make some noise for my daddy. Nate Bargazi.

[Ashley Hess]

I know.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, he should do that from backstage. That's my job.

[Ashley Hess]

That's your job. But then he was like, I'm so sad to miss this weekend, which will have just happened with Raina and Brittany. And he was like, I wonder if I can like, no, no, no, you're not coming. It's a girls weekend. You can't come to this one. But we just had the best weekend. I mean, I have never lived in Chicago. It's the best city in America. I mean, aside from the weather. I just think it has everything. This is like a thing people I feel like are say, what was your hot tip?

[Raina Greenberg]

That Chicago is a place you should visit.

[Ashley Hess]

But when just walking around, it's like, it. This is again, not a hot take. I just think so many things about it make it perfect.

[Raina Greenberg]

Besides the cold, you love hot takes about Chicago.

[Tori Dunlap]

I love Chicago.

[Ashley Hess]

I just. And this was my best Chicago food weekend. I know. It's a great food city. I have personally had some Mrs. Well, you picked.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, I told you. You picked one of the best Italian restaurants in the country. Monteverde. Monteverde and Pequods, which is my favorite deep dish.

[Ashley Hess]

Might be. I was. Thought I was a luminardis girl. And Pequods and then went to this other place called Maxwell's Trading. We got some Chicago dogs. But I've went to places before that were. Should have been good and weren't. Like, I've just randomly. We've had some meals, some Mrs. And I was like, I don't even feel comfortable talking about this because everyone's like, Chicago is the best food city. And I'm like, not in my experience. So this past weekend, I was like, determined to really make it like 10 out of 10. And we just had the best time. And I love Chicago.

[Raina Greenberg]

Always have stayed. Loving it.

[Ashley Hess]

I've always loved it since the first time I went. But it's just. It's such a special city.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, it's the best.

[Ashley Hess]

Everyone's just so nice. It's like, it's so clean. You have the water, you have these parks. Like, downtown is great. You just.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's.

[Ashley Hess]

No, no.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love when you talk about Chicago.

[Tori Dunlap]

I know.

[Ashley Hess]

I. I mean, this isn't new for me, but being there, I'M like, God, man, man, that's the best. You know, I say I wish I would have lived there in my 20s. This is like no shade to Atlanta. And there wouldn't have been any reason for me to go there. I knew no one from my college that lived there. But if I could go back and like it could have worked out and I would have the same life I have today, I think that would have been such a fun place to live, like young person.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I, I think great post college, like probably better than New York and la. You don't need as much money as you need in New York. And LA can be a little tough for young girls especially.

[Ashley Hess]

So the tours kicked off. It was incredible. You guys come see me in Florida. Florida's up next. Florida and then Salt Lake. So Miami, Tampa, Salt Lake City and then the rest of the tour of course. But those are the next up next. I really, I can't wait to be in Florida.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'm excited for you.

[Ashley Hess]

Have you been, you've been in Miami this year?

[Raina Greenberg]

February.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, we usually would go in February and I haven't been this year. February.

[Raina Greenberg]

Miami is where I met that guy who sent me the not my fault per se text.

[Ashley Hess]

I can't wait. I just. We've historically always gone to Miami every February in the, in our whole friendship.

[Raina Greenberg]

Always since the beginning of our friendship. Miami, wine and food and then we do shows and.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay, so tell me about your trip.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I went to Mexico City, which I, I couldn't stop saying. That's like a broken record. Of all places I have ever gone, this is the most wrecks I have ever gotten from friends, from our listeners. I mean, hundreds of people sending me their maps. And I think it's just because it's such a big food destination and it's still close to the. Obviously it's not like unattainable and it's just. Yeah, it has the highest concentration of Michelin star restaurants.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's fantastic.

[Raina Greenberg]

So we just had the art.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean, it's just, it's the best place.

[Raina Greenberg]

We had a great time. The weather was phenomenal. We stayed in Condesa, which is a very popular area to stay in. We got a boutique hotel. It was called the Amsterdam Hotel if you guys want to look it up. It was fantastic. And everything we did was great. We all got a little sick at the end of the trip. That's part of the course. And I was determined to like kick the sickness because I made me delusionally planned to go straight from Mexico City to Vegas. So I went to like New York City for a week. Came home for two days.

[Ashley Hess]

I know. I didn't even realize that too like, that we were in New York. I mean, I was there for like a whole like week, week. Came back, turned it right around. You left even sooner than me.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I got back Sunday night. I left Tuesday night.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Went to Mexico City, got super food poisoning. Sick Friday, I was determined to kick it. I woke up the next morning, I flew straight to Vegas. We did like a one night in Vegas for our friend's birthday. You were of course invited, but you had your. And it ended up just being four of us, friends of ours that are a couple. And then this guy and we just. I had like one of the best nights I've ever had in my life. We had drinks to catch. We saw Aziz Ansari. Our friend Ricky Velez opened for him. Then we went to Carbone for dinner. We shut down Carbone. We went to see the Chain Smokers. We were out all night.

[Ashley Hess]

Stop.

[Raina Greenberg]

I was out till 7 in the morning. Food poisoning and all. I sent it.

[Ashley Hess]

You weren't out, you were in.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I'm glad that you brought that up.

[Ashley Hess]

You don't say you were out. Like you were doing lines at the club at 6am you are.

[Raina Greenberg]

This is the perfect intro to what I wanted to tell you. Okay, so I'm talking to my brother and sister in law this morning, and my brother passed the phone to my sister in law and I was like, I was out until 7. You guys have listened to the show ever? That's not me. Like, no, I. My girlfriend who I was with is a new mother, and she was like, I'm not staying out past two. I'm going to bed. I got to go home, take care of my kid tomorrow, like, parenting hungover. I was like, I don't know how you guys are for the week. No, I got home, I ordered four bagels, just different varieties of bagels. That was fucked up. So no one who knows me thinks that that's the case, that I would ever stay out that late. Of course it's not.

[Ashley Hess]

So one time you did, and it's when that guy ate your butt. And you left me that voice note at 7am and I asked you if you want to go to the Eagles game the next day and you were like, I've been up all night getting my butt eaten.

[Raina Greenberg]

I sent you that same voice note Sunday morning this week.

[Ashley Hess]

I was like, minus the butt.

[Tori Dunlap]

Stop. Sort of.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't know.

[Raina Greenberg]

So my sister in law Is like, same voice. My sister in law was like, 7am Were you on drugs? And I was like, no. And she goes, how did you stay out that late? And I was like a guy, obviously. And she was like, so you weren't out? And I was like, well, I was up. And she was like, that's not the same thing. You can't tell people you were out till seven. And I was like, I was out of my room until 7. And she was like, not the same thing. You can't say that. So I get off the phone with her and she sends me a text message. It doesn't count as partying until 7am she just spontaneously sends me one. I'm like, she says it doesn't, but.

[Ashley Hess]

She'S gonna die on this hill.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. Does not count. I said it was a party, but I just had one guest. And she said it wasn't. It doesn't count. She said, you were out until three. Partying needs more than two people.

[Ashley Hess]

This is so funny. She's like, I'm gonna pick this battle actually with my sister in law. She's like, I'm a new mom and I need to win.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I said, but I've already really told a lot of people it was seven.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm with her. She's still going, okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

She said, I'm proud of you. Partied until three and then you had some fun.

[Ashley Hess]

She's like, and then she blocks you. She's like, I will get the final word.

[Raina Greenberg]

So she does that. Conversation ends 10 minutes later. I'm walking over to the studio today. My brother texts me separately. Okay, two people enjoying each other's company is not a party. Three people is a party. He gets in the mix. It is categorically different. This extends to sex as well. Two people together, run of the mill. Three people out of the ordinary, also a party. I said, I hate you both.

[Ashley Hess]

He said, hate me as much as.

[Raina Greenberg]

You want, but you partied until three.

[Tori Dunlap]

The two of them are just roast.

[Raina Greenberg]

I think it was very brave to admit to my brother and my sister in law that I hooked up with somebody all night.

[Ashley Hess]

You are wrong. And they're calling you out for showing off, which is so embarrassing. Do you remember when you were little and your parents would be like, stop showing off. And you would be like, it's a dagger to the heart when you get called out for showing off because you.

[Raina Greenberg]

Think you're just like entertaining everybody look at me and look what I can do.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, even when you said out till seven to me, I was like, huh? Cause all you up till 7, it still is bad bitch behavior.

[Raina Greenberg]

I was up watching the sun rise.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I stayed up till seven is accurate.

[Raina Greenberg]

I was naked for the last four.

[Ashley Hess]

Throw that in. People who are out till seven are naked, right?

[Raina Greenberg]

They're out.

[Tori Dunlap]

That's.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, if you want to get semantical about it, if I'm naked, I'm out.

[Ashley Hess]

No, you're in. You're literally in. You're thinking now I'm thinking there was a time when I was out and I was naked. And that was. And I like, fuck this, dude. And we were hooked up in the ocean and we got out of the Ocean at sea, 6am People were on the beach. I was butt naked.

[Raina Greenberg]

You were out. You were technically out.

[Ashley Hess]

I am. So I need to hear the conversation. When they got off the phone, they were like, we'll get her. That's double teamer.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's rare that they separately text me like this about the same conversation. Like, they were like, we need to just double down on separate text threats. I did send you, like a half alive text message. You were like, I have so much tea from last night. I was like, oh, buckle up.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I think. Yeah, I think I was like, I have a lot to tell you, but couldn't have compared to what you had to tell me.

[Raina Greenberg]

You thought I was joking?

[Ashley Hess]

Listen, at this point, it doesn't even matter if she was up or out. She had a night and a morning.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I did. It was really what I want to. I love Vegas so much.

[Ashley Hess]

I really look back on these Vegas weekends and they're just so perfect. Like, even when we were there last year with our girlfriends, about a year ago, the Lovers and Friends festival got canceled. We still had a great weekend despite it, but our show weekend was truly when of the best weekends in my life.

[Raina Greenberg]

Core memory.

[Ashley Hess]

When you really plan it perfectly. And again, like, one night is fine, but like, two is the max, obviously. And you really just do like an amazing dinner at like a swanky place, some sort of show, some sort of club experience. Like, it's. Nothing beats it. I mean, I'm going for one of my bachelorettes, and that's how I really want to do it. Like, I'm going to do a house off the strip. Like, I just want all the girls in the house, which I love a hotel in Vegas because they're the biggest, best rooms. But I think I still want to stay in, like a house with a pool and stuff.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I really like being all together. And when we went to Mexico City, we Were going to get separate rooms. We ended up renting like an apartment at this boutique hotel so that, you know, in the morning you're not like, what time are we meeting for coffee? Like, I really enjoyed that. We all stayed in the same apartment.

[Ashley Hess]

100%. Yeah. And you can get baller houses, like 10 minutes off the strip. Get like a bus or something to take us in. And then, yeah, I want to do two nights. I want to go do the Chippendales. Go do like a fancy dinner, like do the things and then come home.

[Raina Greenberg]

I think people are surprised I like Vegas so much because I just, it's like my whole personality. Like, I'm not fun, but like. And our other friend that we went with, he was like, I'm surprised you like this so much. And I was like, oh, you'll see.

[Ashley Hess]

But you just.

[Raina Greenberg]

Vegas, Reyna, you only do it every.

[Ashley Hess]

Once in a while. Like it's. We do this a couple times a.

[Tori Dunlap]

Year, twice a year.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's not attractive to do it more than that.

[Ashley Hess]

Listen, that's your life. You live your truth.

[Raina Greenberg]

But man, it was fun. What a weekend.

[Ashley Hess]

Good times.

[Raina Greenberg]

Great times all around.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Okay, so we have this episode today with Tori Dunlap and we did just want to address, like, we are talking about investing and finance and the stock market and like, I mean, so much has gone down even since we recorded with her. And things are so out, out of control. I mean it's what we were seeing is so unprecedented. These are truly insane financial times. And people have lost so much money. And again, the stock market ebbs and flows. I'm not an expert. Tori is. And people are really freaking out and we just. All I want to do is address it. Like at least give that disclaimer up top that when you're listening to it. It was kind of prior to these tariffs and things, really, totally shitting the bed. Even though a lot of people felt like this was looming and a recession was looming and it still is. So this doesn't negate anything she says. And the advice and the content is really evergreen, but we just wanted to throw that out there.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I mean, I still think the advice plays. And I talked to my brother who works in finance a lot this morning about it. And you know, the stock market tanking and people giving up their gains. I mean, my dad said to me, I've lost more in two days than I've made in three years. I mean, it's just, it like shattered my heart.

[Ashley Hess]

Older people, it's like makes me Like, I mean, I have no words.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

And I get these people's 401ks and all these things.

[Raina Greenberg]

And my brother said to me, you know, you and Ashley, of course will keep investing for long periods of time. Those stocks will go back up. You'll be okay. I mean, it's almost a good time to buy stocks. Tori will talk about this also. It's. It's at a discount.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Right now people are talking. Mark Cuban people are talking about this.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. But I think a lot of people's parents are probably having these type of conversations with them right now where, you know, you've given up all the gains that you've made in these years. And so of course, I just said to my dad, you know, we'll get through this. It's fine. You know, you have us and everything will be fine. Of course it will be for, for us. But I, I just, you know, I hope that's the case for so many.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I don't like, look at those numbers a lot. I. My mindset is like, this money went in to wherever it is for 10 years, you know, in my head. So that's just kind of how I view it. But I'm certainly worried about my money all the time. And that comes up on this episode as well. But anyway, I was like watching it through last night and was just like, so kind of funny. We're doing like stock market stuff and it's like, I want to dress the elephant in the room. Totally. Okay, well, we are going to get into it with her. You guys are going to love it. But I am just going to tell you about Story Worth. You guys know how much we love Story Worth. I mean, this is something that we have in our lives, in our family's lives. And as we have Mother's Day coming up, there really is no better gift. So this is a great time to give mom a unique heartfelt gift that'll truly make her feel loved with Story Worth. So the way that this works is each week StoryWorth emails your loved ones. Let's just say your mom, a memory provoking question that you get to help pick out. So you can go in to your account and choose the questions or they can just do it for you. I think I changed some for my dad and maybe I kept the ones they chose for my mom. I didn't really change too much but like, some of them may not be a fit but they'll ask things like, did you ever get in trouble in school? How'd you decide how many children to have do you remember your 30th birthday or your wedding day or having kids or what's your biggest fear? What was your first job? Things like that. And then your loved one will respond to that email with a story. Long or short, doesn't matter. And then as their responses are recorded over the course of the year, they're then gonna make it into this beautiful book. So again, you may be picturing this like kind of photo book. That's not what it is. It's this beautiful keepsake hardcover book. Photos can go in it, you can upload those as well. And you'll be able to share that and revisit it for generations to come. So I'm obsessed with this. I mean, I did one for my mom, did one for my dad. My cousins have done it for my aunt and my uncle. We have it on the bookshelf at home. And my brother and I both have copies obviously. And it's just an incredible thing. I cannot recommend it enough. Families Love Story Worth it has over 40,000 5 star reviews. Can you imagine giving it a bad review? Hate the memories.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, it's just like I don't care about my parents. Went through those people.

[Ashley Hess]

Millions of stories preserved since they were founded over 10 years ago. So you can give all the moms in your life a unique heartfelt gift you'll all cherish for years. Story worth right now. Save $10 on your first purchase when you go to storyworth.com GGE that's storyworth.com GGE to save $10 on your first purchase.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes, and vacation season is nearly upon us. So this year you guys can treat yourselves to luxe upgrades of your wardrobe with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. I mean Ashley and I are just crazy about this brand all year round. There is so much to shop for. So they do have premium luggage and tote bags to carry. They have all kinds of accessories. I like their belts, I like their purses. Right now they have these lightweight European linen styles from 30. So I bought this set that I loved, I wore at Mexico City. They have this 100% European and linen wide leg pants. And they come in seven different colors, all kinds of sizes and lengths. And then they have matching tops and it really is just the perfect like a set. Nothing will make you look more chic and put together than a set. Get yourself a linen set. They washable silk tops, comfy lounge sets. They partner directly with top factories so they cut the cost of the middleman. The savings are fantastic. Their Prices are unbeatable and they only work with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible practices. So I really can't say enough about it.

[Ashley Hess]

I love this Mongolian cashmere cropped tank. Yeah, so it's cashmere but it's a tank. I love that. And it just kind of. You can dress up or dress it down. Like you could really wear it like to work with a blazer and like slacks or really wear it in like jeans or a little short skirt. A night out. I'm like obsessed with it. I got it in black. I'm gonna get another color too.

[Raina Greenberg]

Ashley and I like, we'll buy something we like on that site and just buy in every color cuz the prices are so insane. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quint. Go to quince.com GGE for 365 day returns plus free Shipp on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com GGE to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com GGE okay.

[Ashley Hess]

Pretty litter, right? It has been a minute.

[Raina Greenberg]

I know. I got excited, I got excited about how this comes.

[Ashley Hess]

Pretty litter. I mean this is what my parents use in their house. They have five cats. Probably had four last time we talked about pretty litter they added a fifth. So you have a full starting squad.

[Raina Greenberg]

Your family loves cats.

[Ashley Hess]

They have a full starting five.

[Raina Greenberg]

Your mom can't say no to a cat.

[Tori Dunlap]

Cat.

[Ashley Hess]

Don't quiz me on their names. No, I know them all I think. And this just is such a game changer for anybody with one cat. Five cats, however many you have, that's legal in your state because you know they have limits on that. But it's the best kitty litter that exists. I mean it has this non clumping formula. It traps odor and moisture. When I made my parents switch to this, I've noticed such a difference. They keep the litter box like in the laundry room and like I noticed the difference with the smell and it flying out of the box and like getting under your feet. I hate that feeling. So Pretty litter is lightweight, low dust, 16 pound bag works for up to a month. And the cool thing that it does is that it changes color to indicate early signs of potential illnesses in your cat. What is more important than keeping your pet healthy so it can detect urinary tract infections, kidney issues and more. So that is something that looks like so important about it. No other litter is going to do that. And since it ships free to your door. You never run out. You don't have a bunch of kitty litter bags taking up space. If you live in a small space, this is even more important. You don't have to go out and lug those huge tubs from a store to your car, your house, yada yada. So we just love it so much. It's so much better. It's different than really anything else out there. The health monitor is going to give you peace of mind too. So pretty litter helps keep your house smelling fresh and clean. Try it and you'll love it. Go to prettylitter.com GGE to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. That's PrettyLittleitter.com GGE to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Not cat. Prettylitter.com GGE terms and conditions apply. See site for details. Okay, let's get into it.

[Raina Greenberg]

All right, guys. We are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is a money expert and the founder of her first 100K, which is a financial education company aimed at young women. She is the host of the number one money podcast for women in the world, financial feminist, and is a New York Times bestselling author of the book Financial Feminist. Overcome the patriarchy's bullshit to master your money and build a life you love. Please welcome to the show, Tori Dunlap.

[Tori Dunlap]

Thank you so much for having me. Yay. Yay.

[Ashley Hess]

Yay.

[Raina Greenberg]

Tori. Our audience really requests trusted you.

[Tori Dunlap]

That's so nice. There is the Venn diagram. I think between your audience and my audience looks more like two circles on top of each other than I think.

[Ashley Hess]

A true Venn diagram just makes me so happy. We always feel so proud of our audience, you know, and just them making money, wanting to make more of it, wanting to invest.

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, it's the taboo, Right. We're actually more likely to talk about sex than we are about money. Money is the most taboo topic, so it makes sense. Okay. If we're talking about, yeah, a lot of taboo things, the audience feels very, very similar.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes.

[Raina Greenberg]

And we've done quite a few episodes about money, which are fantastic. We had to meet Sati on the show, but we've talked a lot about, like, relationships and money. But our audience really highly just requested, like, I want to learn how to invest my money, get out of debt, save like their own, which I loved to see.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, that's so funny. Like, I don't care about this relationship.

[Raina Greenberg]

We're done with that.

[Ashley Hess]

We're done with that.

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, you got to manage your own money before you get a relationship.

[Ashley Hess]

Hopefully put your mask on before you help others. Well, tell us a little bit about you. I mean, again, the first chapter of the book is kind of your brief story of, you know, quitting your job and. But just in general.

[Tori Dunlap]

So I grew up with a great financial education for my parents, and I thought that was normal because that was my lived experience. Totally is. I was like, okay, everybody knows not to overspend on credit cards. Everybody knows how to save money. And of course, when I got to college and beyond, I was like, oh, no, that was a privilege. And with that privilege comes responsibility. So I majored in theater and communications in college.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Tori Dunlap]

The plan was to be a marketing girl boss, stomping the streets of Seattle with my coffee cup and my briefcase and my pencil skirt. And that's how I knew it was a lie, as I've never worn a pencil skirt in my goddamn life.

[Ashley Hess]

I cannot relate more. I joke that I thought adulthood was a pencil skirt and we were going to TGI Fridays for happy hour.

[Tori Dunlap]

Absolutely. The amount of, like, Cosmopolitan articles that were, like, the makeup from day to night, Day to night. What?

[Raina Greenberg]

Have you ever seen that memes that she said? Like, not one time in my life literally ever needed an outfit to go from day to night.

[Tori Dunlap]

Not one. So that was what I thought my 20s were gonna be.

[Ashley Hess]

And then I got into Andy Anderson. Yeah, totally.

[Tori Dunlap]

I got into a extremely sexist, extremely misogynistic workplace. And I graduated college five months before Trump was elected the first time. And so I'm coming into adulthood, but really into womanhood in a very different country than I think a lot of us expected. And I start asking myself questions like, okay, how can I make a difference? As cheesy as that sounds, like, what can I do? And all of my friends started coming to me to ask me financial advice. And I also started realizing in my life that when I had money, I had choices. When I had money, I had the ability to get out of that toxic workplace I didn't want to be in anymore. When I had money, I had the ability to leave a relationship or donate to causes I believed in or travel or go to therapy. Right? Every option opened up to me, and that was the feeling I wanted for every single woman on the planet. So I started her first 100k on the side of my 9 to 5 in marketing. Built it slowly over time. Took it full time in 2019 after going on Good Morning America. And since then, we've had 5 million women.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, my God.

[Tori Dunlap]

Learn how to save money, pay off debt, start investing. This is what I believe I was put on this earth to do, is fight for women's financial rights. This is my favorite fucking thing to do. And the best part is that when women. And at this point, we get like, a message every five minutes of, like, I paid off my student loans, or I had my first thousand dollars and I never thought I'd have this much money in my bank account, or I was able to leave my abusive spouse because I have money now. There's always a second part of that sentence which is, and I show up differently in every aspect of my life. And, like, this is why we have to talk about money. This is why we have to become educated any day, but especially right now, because a financial education is your best form of protest.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, I just love that. It's so true. No, money doesn't buy happiness.

[Tori Dunlap]

It does, though.

[Ashley Hess]

Hey. I just used to have so much anxiety around money when I was, like, truly living paycheck to paycheck, not even barely getting by and debt and all those things. And like, at the end of every, like, trip or that I couldn't afford, I was. Had this overwhelming anxiety. I wouldn't check my bank account, I would withdraw money and, like, not look at the balance. Like, once I started making money, yes, I was happier because I had freedom to do things and fix things. And of course, you want every woman to feel that feeling.

[Raina Greenberg]

And, you know, and I love your story, and I have a very similar story. I was able to leave a job that I was very unhappy with at a company that's based in Seattle, where you're based.

[Tori Dunlap]

I wonder which one it could be.

[Raina Greenberg]

Because I had a support system for myself. But I do think about just. There's a lot of women that are in situations with a partner that they can't leave, and how much that breaks my heart and how long it takes to extract yourself from that without money.

[Tori Dunlap]

99% of domestically violent situations have some sort of financial abuse. And we're going right in really quick. Sorry, everybody, but that is something that unfortunately doesn't get discussed of. Money is a source of control. If you don't have money, if you don't have access to your own money, if he's taking out credit cards in your name, if. If there's so much shit that starts happening that, again, keeps you stuck. And the vast majority of, again, we're assuming, you know, women dating men, but the vast majority of women who want to relieve relationships can't because it's like, even if it's a relationship that is not violent or not abusive, but you just don't want to be in anymore. It's like, oh, I'm in this expensive city and I'm splitting rent in half. So now if I leave, I have to go out on my own and pay for a one bedroom apartment entirely for me. Right. It's like $1,400 split in half. Now I have to pay all the 14. That's a lot of money. And so again, I never want money to be the reason you can't do something. I want it to be the reason you can.

[Raina Greenberg]

When I was 23 years old, I was living with my first boyfriend in New York and I caught him cheating on me. We were splitting the rent, he paid more than half and I caught him cheating on me. And I didn't confront him for a whole week because I was like, I really had to wrestle with, like, what does this mean for my ability to pay my rent if I say something about this? And I don't want women to be in those positions.

[Ashley Hess]

Totally. Okay, where do we even start?

[Raina Greenberg]

So we start with, I want to talk about how people's attitudes and financial personalities even come about. Because you spend a lot of time in the book just saying, like, before we talk about how to take actionable steps, where does this even come from? How are we socialized around money? And then we'll talk about how, like, women and men differ.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. So everybody thinks that personal finance is about math, like how good you are at math. So you talk with women, and women will go, well, I'm terrible at numbers, or I'm terrible at math. And so therefore I'm not good with money. I majored in theater, guys. Like, I'm not good at math either. It's not about math. It's about psychology. And that's why I spend the first chapter, which is the longest chapter, the biggest research chapter, about the emotions and the psychology of money. Because I can't teach you how to budget, I can't teach you how to get a game plan together until you understand your own financial triggers. So the vast majority of your money habits are actually cemented by age 7 according to statistics. So by second grade, how you view money, how you view people with money, how you manage your own money in the future is already deemed based on the relationship that your parents or people who you were growing up around manage money, unless you work to change it. So the practice I have in my book that I would love to do with both of you Is like, what is your first money memory? What is the first time you remember thinking about money?

[Ashley Hess]

I feel like I remember this doesn't really have to do with my family. You know, we had what we needed and things like that, but I just remember, like, knowing who, like, the rich girl in class was and, like, wanting to, like. Like, be her friend and go to her house.

[Tori Dunlap]

Like, she had the cool clothes or she had this.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. I mean, her family owned car dealerships, you know, Like, I grew up in just a small town, you know, so that was like, the rich person in town was obviously that. And I just remember having her on a pedestal because we. I knew she had money and, like, at age 6 and, like, how I want to be in on that. I want to go to her house, you know, that was kind of how I do think I placed value on people thinking in that way. Yeah. But again, that's because I wanted to make money.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah, totally.

[Ashley Hess]

When I was. I wanted. I want to be, like, a rich person.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. I mean, for me, it was. Cause I was a theater nerd. I really wanted to go see the local production of Annie, the musical that was happening. And my parents were like, okay, if you want a ticket, you got to save up. And I had no income source when I was, like, 4 or 5, but it was like, okay, lemonade stands picking up change on the sidewalk. And I saved it all in an Altoids tin. And I learned, okay, if you want something, you have to save for it. You can't go into debt. And so. So you can kind of start to interpret and feel free to share yours as well. You can kind of start to interpret, like, what happens or, like, what sort of beliefs you have, depending on, again, how you grew up around money or.

[Ashley Hess]

What that says, I'm gonna share one more. And then I wanna hear rant. I remember being, like, young. I might have been second grade. It might've been third, fourth. It was elementary. And my grandparents had, like, a farm. There's Christmas trees on it. My dad was like, go sell Christmas trees to your teachers. And, I mean, I sold Girl Scout cookies and different things, but he was like, go see if some of these teachers want some trees for Christmas. I was like, all right. And I think I was selling for, like, 20 bucks. I mean, what. This is, like, early 90s and just, like, raking it in. Everyone, like, bought one. And I was like. The fact that he sent me to just, like, hustle the teachers and, like. But then I think we're like, what.

[Tori Dunlap]

It is to be an entrepreneur.

[Ashley Hess]

And I had that, like, spirit too. Even, like, school, we did, like, a little mini society thing. I would crush it. But I think the thing I didn't really learn is then what to do with it.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah, sure.

[Ashley Hess]

And we have these stories of, like, making a bunch of money in the summer and going. And, like, going to the mall and blowing it all. And, like, no one told us what we were supposed to do with it.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, I have two also. So from a very young age, I'm putting my parents totally on blast. My parents divorced when I was four and my dad would sort of, like, skimp out on child support payments. And I heard about it. I heard about it a lot.

[Tori Dunlap]

Ooh, that's a hard position to be in for you.

[Raina Greenberg]

And, you know, all evidence pointed to the fact that we really were fine. We lived in a nice house, we had nice cars. I went to a private school, I went to summer camp. Like, all evidence pointed to the fact we were fine. But I was constantly hearing, like, your father owes us money. Your father's putting us in a bad financial position. And I grew up really panicked around money. And, you know, my mom was a wonderful parent. I just think she was stressed out and it would come out sometimes, you know, and my father emotionally was there. But I remember just a lot of panic around, like, we're gonna lose everything. Even though all evidence pointed to the fact that, like, we were pretty much gonna be fine. And then to Ashley's point of making a bunch of money and not knowing what to do with it. Like, I always worked. I worked from the time I was 14, every single weekend. I worked at a diner, made, like, 100 doll, and I would blow it every single weekend. But I guess my. Like, my parents would be like, she goes to the mall and she blows everything on T shirts. But, like, there was no education after that.

[Tori Dunlap]

Right? There was a lot of, how do we get. Or to not do that, how I.

[Raina Greenberg]

Spent the money and being, like, negged about it. But there wasn't like. But here's a thing you could do with it instead.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. And I'm like, did they. They might have.

[Tori Dunlap]

They might have.

[Ashley Hess]

And I would have been like, fuck you. I'm going to the mall. Like, I don't think. I can't really remember, but, like, I do wish it would have been a sit down, like, you've made some money. Even if it was the Christmas tree money or the working at Lone Star Steakhouse money. And, like, here's what to do with it. I just didn't. I don't really remember that education.

[Raina Greenberg]

I didn't get it. Other than, like, just stop spending so much. That was education. Put it in a bank account.

[Tori Dunlap]

Stop it.

[Ashley Hess]

They were like, you're supposed to save it. I'm like, how?

[Tori Dunlap]

Right?

[Ashley Hess]

What do you mean? But what does that mean?

[Tori Dunlap]

If women get any advice, it's just, save your money. But then you're like, for what?

[Ashley Hess]

Under the mattress?

[Tori Dunlap]

How? It's cash. Exactly. So we can talk about that. But, yeah, for anybody at home, you can do the money memory exercise. And it's typically very revealing. We have a prompt in the book about it, too. But here's the thing is, it's like, unless you were taught about money, Most of us weren't. Then you grow up thinking, I should just know how to money. Like, I should just know this. Why don't I know this? And then it becomes a personal failing thing. Oh, I'm not good with money because I spend too much. And then you beat yourself up about it. Money is a learned skill. Playing an instrument, learning a new language. Money's the same thing, right? We don't, like, come out of the womb speaking fluent French and playing the tuba, yet we somehow believe, like, I should know how to do that. This. And in actuality, your financial education is just a learned skill, and it's going to be something you're bad at for a while because statistically, no one taught you or the education you got was very surface level. It was like, don't spend money on things.

[Raina Greenberg]

I was just, like, negged a lot at home. Raina just loves to buy T shirts. Right? It's always the mall buying T shirts. I mean, the amount of times I heard that fucking sentence, rather than like, isn't it amazing Raina wants to go to work and make money? Like, let's teach her how to do anything else. I was like, I'm living my best life.

[Tori Dunlap]

It doesn't matter whether you're 14 or 34. Like, that narrative is so pervasive, which is women aren't rich because they spend frivolously. And I'm putting frivolous in quotes.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Tori Dunlap]

The frivolous spending is the stuff that is stereotypically feminine. That's the only stuff that gets labeled frivolous. So lattes, manicures, blowouts at the salon. It's not NFL season tickets. It's not golf clubs. It's not video games.

[Raina Greenberg]

Totally. It's not that drone you had to buy or NFL Sunday ticket, which is not the drone.

[Tori Dunlap]

Exactly. And so men are taught really good things about Money, which is like, expand, make more money, invest in the stock market, negotiate your salary, become a business owner. Right. That is how you get rich. That is true. But the advice for women is scrimp, save, become like the most miserable version of you. Right. Stop spending money on things that bring you joy and just save it. So there's no advice that is actually helpful. And then you also just feel like a piece of at the end of the day. And like, I'm so focused on how do we afford the things that we actually love because it's not enough to just save our money and live a miserable life right now. How do we find the balance to do both in a society that keeps telling us that the reason we can't buy a house is because we buy a five dollar latte.

[Ashley Hess]

An avocado toast.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yep. It's so interesting though. Like, no one ever said to me, like, if you want to afford these manicures and these haircuts you spend all this stupid money on, like, then go learn how to be a boss. I had to just like, do that. That myself, Right?

[Tori Dunlap]

Yep.

[Raina Greenberg]

I guess somewhere along the line, someone on TikTok told me, but, like, it's.

[Ashley Hess]

Changed a little bit now.

[Tori Dunlap]

Definitely.

[Ashley Hess]

Definitely grew up, not when we grew up.

[Raina Greenberg]

Definitely. And I will say, you know, to my mom's credit, I've said this many times on the show. My mom said to me my whole life, go out, make your own money. Because God forbid you are in a position where you have to support yourself alone. You can.

[Tori Dunlap]

Right? Right. And I think that no one is socially taught to talk about money. Like, it's a taboo for anybody of any gender. But for men, it's more normalized of like, oh, we'll talk about the bonuses we brought in when we're golfing. We'll talk about again, like, the stock market. For women, it feels so overwhelming, it feels so jargon heavy, that we either are so scared of it that we opt out or we're afraid that we're, like, too stupid to understand. And, like, I need everybody to know you're not too stupid to understand. Like, they make this confusing on purpose. And it's also, again, it's a learned skill. So, like, you're going to be bad at it for a while. There's going to be training wheel moments, and that's okay. But I need you to take an active role in actually being better with your money.

[Ashley Hess]

Raina does still spend too much on T shirts.

[Raina Greenberg]

I do, but I'm not having kids. So there you go.

[Tori Dunlap]

Trade Off.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's a trade off.

[Ashley Hess]

It's just very funny that, like, that is your one, like, vice thing. It's been since you were like a kid.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

It's too much on T shirts.

[Raina Greenberg]

I do, but I'm just like, you know, all my. I have no debt and everything that I.

[Tori Dunlap]

You don't have to justify your T shirts. Meant to be. That's the other thing with women do, though. I'm gonna read you for shelf a little bit. But that's the other thing women do is again, we've been told to feel shame about our purchases. So then it's always like, but I got it on sale, right? Like, somebody compliments my outfit, I'm like, thank you so much. I got it on sale. Like, that's the first thing we say. Or like, oh, I'm gonna wear it multiple times. If it's something that feels, like, outlandish to us, we have to justify it. And it's like, men don't have to do that shit.

[Ashley Hess]

Totally.

[Tori Dunlap]

Men don't have to justify their purchases. They get to spend money because they have hobbies. They get to spend money because it brings them joy. And I would love for women to get to a point where, yes, they're saving so they don't feel guilty about spending later, but they're also just like, yeah, I bought this. And so what it is.

[Raina Greenberg]

So you talk a little bit in the beginning of the book about shame, which is that you don't know anything about money, and then just creating this, like, ostrich effect. So can you talk a little bit about that?

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah, the ostrich effect is real. So when I ask most people about money, especially people who, like, are just new to our community, the response is, I don't know anything of what's going on because I'm too scared to look. And this is what we call the ostrich effect, where you bury your head in the sand, you act like your problems don't exist, because it's a lot easier to just ignore them than it is to get honest about what's really going on. And this is so normal, this is so real, because we feel, again, overwhelmed. We feel shame. Oh, we have too much debt or I don't have enough in savings. And so I'm just not gonna look at it. It's like getting in a car and having no idea how much gas is in it. Like, that's what we're doing is we're just like, raw dogging life. You're just like, driving a car and you're just like, okay, maybe I can get to the grocery store, maybe I can get to the state over, but I have no fucking idea. And what happens is that you end up breaking down on the side of the road at 2 in the morning.

[Ashley Hess]

You just overdraft at brunch.

[Tori Dunlap]

Exactly.

[Ashley Hess]

I'll know when I overdraft.

[Tori Dunlap]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

I'll know when they bring me back my card and tell you we can't.

[Tori Dunlap]

Run then that I can't afford it. Yeah, yeah. And like, I want you going to the all inclusive resort, wherever you want to go. Like, I want you going to the ERAS tour, But I don't want it to be with a side of guilt. Like, I want you to spend unabashedly on the things you love because you know you can afford them. Like, I need you to have a gas gauge in your car. I need you to know what's going on. And so we talk about budgeting in the book. And again, I can hear everybody like throwing up. They're like, I don't want a budget. I don't want to do it. It means restriction. It doesn't. Having a budget is the gas gauge of like, I know I can afford this. And I also know that it's not going to come with a side of guilt later because I've already saved. So, like, my first piece of like really actionable advice that anybody can do at home is set up an automatic transfer to your savings at least once a month.

[Ashley Hess]

Month.

[Tori Dunlap]

So it's like either when you get paid, it could be twice a month. If you get two paychecks, it can be, you know, $20 a month if that's all you can swing right now. But set up that automatic transfer from your checking account to your savings account. Because we're doing what's called like paying ourself first. Right. Just like we're another bill. We're setting up money for future us and we've done the hard thing first so that we can then go out and spend on brunch or spend on whatever we want to spend it on because it's not going to come with that side of guilt later. We're doing both. We're spending the money on the things we love of. And we know we've taken care of our savings too.

[Raina Greenberg]

Anything I can automate and not think about it.

[Tori Dunlap]

Totally.

[Raina Greenberg]

I. I just. It hurts a little less.

[Tori Dunlap]

No. And I think we think, like, I get an extra gold star if I make this, like, hard. Like that means I've earned it. And no, like, money is Already hard enough. Like any tool at your disposal, automation's huge. Just like you set up automatic bill pay for, I don't know, your electric bill or your credit card statement. You can do this with your savings. You can be like, okay, every time I get paid, I'm setting aside 5% of my paycheck to savings. Great.

[Ashley Hess]

And that just psychologically starts the two. You have to pat yourself on the back. I did the thing and I checked the box.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's happening without you even having to think about it.

[Ashley Hess]

Totally.

[Tori Dunlap]

So it's really nice too, if you can set it up. We talk about high yield savings accounts and sesame.

[Ashley Hess]

I was just gonna ask if we're gonna talk about that.

[Tori Dunlap]

Absolutely, yeah. So they're just like everyday savings accounts except they're gonna offer you way more in interest and the interest rate is declining with everything going on. But it's, but it's still like 3% compared to like 0.3 which is the national average. So if your money's just gonna sit there, which is what we want, right, we want it to sit there in case of emergencies and the savings goals we have, it may as well be working harder for you.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean I think this, people have heard this term, most people, but if they haven't like high yield savings account, just anyone can have one.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's a savings account. It's just like a souped up savings account. It's just offering you a higher interest rate and it's usually through online banks. The reason they're able to offer you that higher interest rate is because they don't have tellers, they don't have like a brick and mortar location. And the other thing is like if you have for examp your paycheck going in, like I have my paycheck go to like a local bank in case I like need to take cash out or whatever. But my high yield savings account is where my savings is at a different bank. So that helps a little bit too because if you're sending your savings to a place that's not with your checking account where your money's getting taken out, you can get that money if you need it. Right. It's there if you need it, but it's not as easy to transfer the transfer.

[Raina Greenberg]

Totally. What would an example of an online bank you recommend?

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah, so like so far is the one we recommend. We have our tool on our website, her first 100k dot com. But there's also, you know, there's Ally bank, there's Amex has one. Like there's A million places that have them. But that's the other nice thing is it's like another hoop to jump through to make sure that you're not at brunch and going, okay, it's fine. I'll just take a little money out of my emergency fund. Right. It's like, yeah, it's a psychological barrier that feels high enough where it's gonna check you every time.

[Ashley Hess]

Totally. Because, like, I would just be like, we'll just all hit savings on the bank teller for bank of America.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. You can also name your savings account. That's the other thing I love is. Yes. You know, instead of 24601, it can be, like, you know, off fund, or it can be like, Croatian vacation 2026. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

All right. I like this first step down.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. We're just gonna take a quick break, and then we'll jump right back into it with Tori. I'm telling you guys about Helix. I say all the time. I really credit, like, the way that I have aged to sleep in water. And I just. I sleep eight hours a night. It's really important to me, and I think about it all the time when I travel. What is the mattress that I'm sleeping on? I. I truly cannot wait to stay. And my mattress, when I get home, I have Helix in all of my bedrooms. I always have you. Your entire family has it as well. I just. I really look forward to coming home. I have the midnight luxe, and mattresses are so important to the quality of your sleep. People are always asking to stay at my house so they can sleep in their bed.

[Ashley Hess]

I know when I have guests in my guest room, they're just like, what is this? I'm like, first of all, you should know, right? Don't come at me. What is this?

[Raina Greenberg]

Tell me. You don't listen to the show or know me at all, but you go to the website, you take a quick quiz about how you sleep. So they'll ask, like, what are your problems in terms of night sweats, back pain, motion transfer? Do you sleep with somebody else? Are you slow, low? Are you plus size? Are you a back sleeper? And then they'll prescribe a mattress for you, essentially, and send it to you. I just. I loved every part of the experience of ordering it. It's improved my sleep. It's so comfy. We just. The website's really easy to use. We love their pillows, mattress toppers, really everything they sell, man, when I go to these.

[Ashley Hess]

Some of these nicer hotels, and they do those, like, feather pillows that just are so flat.

[Raina Greenberg]

Nothing better than a Helix pillow.

[Ashley Hess]

Nothing better. Nothing better.

[Raina Greenberg]

So you go online, you'll check out their sleep quiz. Takes two seconds and they'll ask you again all kinds of stuff. So do you want to address snoring, back pain, sleep apnea, whatever it is, sleep the night literally on the best mattress. Go to helix.comGGE for 20% off site wide. That's helix.comGGE for twenty percent off off.

[Ashley Hess]

Sitewide helix.comGg okay Raina, let me ask you a question. How would you feel if you lost your libido?

[Raina Greenberg]

My sex drive? Is that like a serious question? I'd never recover.

[Ashley Hess]

I know, right? Well, the fact is, millions of premenopausal women are frustrated because they lost their libido. But we are here to let you know that there's a treatment called ADDI that is clinically proven to boost libido in certain pre menopausal women. And this isn't some sketchy gas station pill. It's FDA approved. Talk to your doctor to see if Addie is right for you. And again, it is clinically proven.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love the women have this option.

[Ashley Hess]

Same. You can go learn [e-mail] that is a D-Y-I.com Addy or Flavanserin is for.

[Addi Representative]

Premenopausal women with Acquired Generalized Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder HSDD who have not had problems with low sexual desire in the past who have low sexual desire. No matter the type of sexual activity, the situation, or the sexual partner, the low sexual desire is troubling to them and is not due to a medical or mental problems in the relationship or medicine or other drug use. ADDI is not for use in men or to enhance sexual performance. Your risk of severe low blood pressure and fainting is increased if you drink one to two standard alcoholic drinks. Close in time to your ADDI dose. Wait at least two hours after drinking before taking ADDI at bedtime. Your risk of severe low blood pressure and fainting is also increased if you take certain prescriptions over the counter or herbal medications or have liver problems. Low blood pressure and fainting can happen when you take addi. Even if you don't drink alcohol or take other medicines. Do not take if you are allergic to any of the ingredients in addi. Allergic reactions may include hives, itching or trouble breathing. Sleepiness, sometimes serious, can occur. Common side effects include dizziness, nausea, tiredness, difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep and dry mouth. See full PI and medication guide including boxed warning@ addy.com PI or call 844-PINKPILL.

[Ashley Hess]

Addy that is a d d y.

[Raina Greenberg]

I.com since we're just like on budgeting, people really want actionable steps. I do want to circle back to other financial challenges women have. But like, let's talk about budgeting.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. Okay. So the thing about budgeting again is it gets a bad roll rep and we're again gas gauge in a car. I just want to make sure everybody knows it's the permission slip to spend unabashedly on the things you love while knowing that you don't have the side of guilt later. So I teach a budgeting method in the book that I call the three bucket budget. Because I hated every budgeting method that was out there. I didn't want to track every penny. I have Timothy Chalamet YouTube compilations to watch. Like I have better things to do with my life.

[Ashley Hess]

Do you watch his old like talent shows?

[Tori Dunlap]

Absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

Like when he sings Nicki Minaj.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's little under dragon.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh yeah, Dungeon drag.

[Tori Dunlap]

Have you seen this kiss on the cheek, Turn it to the lip. Do you remember that? No. I love. He's in the book.

[Ashley Hess]

We have the same kink. I'm obsessed.

[Tori Dunlap]

Oh, you have to. So he's like the unofficial mascot of financial feminist. Like I have a cardboard cutout of him that a fan bought me in my office. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

And you guys, please Google Timothy Chalamet Roman's revenge talent show.

[Tori Dunlap]

Please do. Also, his little Timmy Tim statistics is classic. What is that? Do you not know about this?

[Ashley Hess]

No, I'm not as big a Stan.

[Tori Dunlap]

What?

[Raina Greenberg]

Chalamet as a kid is so cute.

[Tori Dunlap]

Oh my God. So. So he was. Now we're on a complete tangent. But whatever. He was tasked with doing a paper in his statistics class for Ms. Lawton and instead he did a video and it's a half produced video. He's pointing to things that have never been edited in. And it's a rap. It's the best thing you've ever seen. Statistics. Statistics. Ms. Lawton. Ms. Lawton.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, it's a star.

[Tori Dunlap]

From the time he look at me, it's Timmy T about to hit him with the ztst. And he's pointing to things that are not there. And it's so funny. He has a backwards hat that's from the golf channel. It says golf on it. And then like he got all of his like classmate girls to like come and dance. It's so great. Stop. He's 16 years old. I'll show it to you after he's so skinny.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh.

[Tori Dunlap]

Just somehow skinnier than he is now.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, it's so funny because people like, how could Kylie be with, like, Travis Scott?

[Tori Dunlap]

And it's like, we're gonna derail this whole interview. I could talk. I could give a dissertation about why this Travis Scott. Oh, he dated Madonna's daughter in high school. Lord, yes. And everybody's out here being like, what is happening? I'm like, no, there's Timmy, and then there's Timote, and Timote is a boy. Like, let's be real.

[Ashley Hess]

There's a bit.

[Tori Dunlap]

There's a rumor going around that he gave everybody at NYU chlamydia. And I'm like, I volunteered. Like, it's treatable. It's treatable.

[Raina Greenberg]

Chlamydia from Timothy Shall. It's treatable.

[Tori Dunlap]

One pill.

[Raina Greenberg]

You're fine.

[Ashley Hess]

On running point. When he finds out he's, like, part of the family, and he just gives everyone chlamydia.

[Tori Dunlap]

But, yeah, he dated, like, Lily Rose Depp. Like, he has a type. Oh, he has a type. He's just Isaac Gonzalez. He did Isaac Gonzalez for a summer. Sorry, I'm complete. I could give you a whole. We could derail this whole interview right now, and I could tell you why he finally make perfect.

[Ashley Hess]

Back for the snack, please.

[Tori Dunlap]

Oh, no, I'm not.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, okay.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's hard to go back to budgeting, though.

[Tori Dunlap]

No, it truly is. Okay, so we're budgeting.

[Raina Greenberg]

Let's talk about budgeting creating a financial priority.

[Tori Dunlap]

We're budgeting to be able to go see a complete unknown on dune 216 times. I did see it three times in theaters, and I do not apologize for it. Dune 2 just, like, wash over me.

[Raina Greenberg]

I was at a club with this guy, and he was like, do you want to come home with me and watch Dune?

[Tori Dunlap]

I would say yes. I would be like, that works on me. You've never seen one or two? You've never seen Part one or Part two?

[Ashley Hess]

I've never seen either.

[Tori Dunlap]

Dune two. Lost in New York. You've never seen Dune two? I went home with him.

[Raina Greenberg]

We just didn't watch Dune.

[Tori Dunlap]

Oh, my God. I'm such a sci fi nerd, too. That's a lot of.

[Ashley Hess]

I love that.

[Raina Greenberg]

I like sci fi. Okay.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's so good. Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

I couldn't tell you, gun to my head, how we got there. I don't know what you said.

[Tori Dunlap]

Oh, I said Timothy Chalamet YouTube compilations. That's what I'd rather watch than track every penny.

[Ashley Hess]

That's what it was.

[Tori Dunlap]

No, but it's true. I don't want to sit and track every penny because it's a fucking waste of my time. And it's also. It's like, that's not helpful because just your life changes, right? Like, we're going into summer. I'm more likely to, like, spend more on rooftop bars. And, like, I didn't have that as a category in the middle of December because I'm not going to a rooft December. I live in Seattle, so it's cold. So I think that for me, it was coming up with a method that actually fit my life and didn't feel so restrictive. So it all hinges on automating your savings. So that's what I talked about before, is like, bucket number two is your goals. So paying off debt, saving money. So if you can set up that automatic transfer of bucket two, you've taken care of the hard thing first, you've done the difficult thing. Everything else falls into place after that because bucket number one is your expenses. Again, we have all of this in the book. But if you take care of the hard thing first, you set aside your savings when you get paid, and then you pay your necessary expenses, your rent or mortgage, your insurance, daycare, your groceries, then you get to spend the rest of the money that's in your bank account on whatever you want to spend it on. And, like, you don't have to budget every penny. Like, you just budgeted because you did the hard thing first.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. I just love this. Again, like, what you said is so simple. You know it is. Put it in the savings means cover your expenses, and the rest do whatever the. Like, I think people really. And like you said, this feels. I don't want to call it loose, but not tracking every penny, no one wants to. It's not realistic.

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, it's not.

[Raina Greenberg]

Also, it's not sustainable. Right?

[Ashley Hess]

Exactly.

[Tori Dunlap]

And if you get off on that, great, because that is something that you really actually can stick to that benefits your life. Great. But most people come to me because they're like, I don't have a budgeting method that works. And I'm like, okay, you don't need to do a spreadsheet if you're not a spreadsheet girl, you don't need to use an app if you're not an app girl, girl, if you automate your savings, do that one thing that technically a computer is doing for you, then everything else falls into place.

[Raina Greenberg]

The only thing I ever learned in school, after all these dumb classes about, like, budgeting and money, was how to.

[Tori Dunlap]

Did you have classes, though?

[Raina Greenberg]

I learned how to balance my checkbook.

[Ashley Hess]

That's it.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's the only thing they taught us.

[Tori Dunlap]

Like, okay, I'm from the 1880s and.

[Raina Greenberg]

The Internet existed then. Like, I'm not that old.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'm just saying, if you're getting a balance checkbook, I wasn't knocking you. I'm like, yeah, that was the learning I had too.

[Ashley Hess]

And my mom had showed. My mom actually did show me.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, my mom did it.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. My parents used QuickBooks 97 until about 2018. Like, it's insane.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. Financial priorities list.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. Okay. So the question beyond budgeting and spending then becomes, well, what am I doing this for? Right. Okay. I'm told I should save money. What for? I have student loans. Tori. I have don't. I need an emergency fund. I need to retire someday, but I also want to go travel. I. Okay, so the number one priority is an emergency fund. I don't care how much debt you have. You can be in a hundred thousand dollars of debt. I need you to have an emergency fund. First, a couple reasons why. Number one, I need you to not have to go into debt to pay for an emergency or more costly debt. Second thing is we really prioritize mental health. At her first 100k, there's something about going to bed at night knowing you have something saved. If I wake up tomorrow and shit hits the fan, I'm good. And then the final thing, and this is so important, like we were talking about before, I need you to have off money. I need you to have enough money to get out of a situation that does not feel safe. Whether that's an apartment, a relationship, a job. If you don't feel safe anymore, I need you to have enough money to walk. So that needs to be at least three months of living expenses. So bucket number one, those are your expenses. Multiply that by three, and that's living in a high yield savings account. So when we talk about automating your savings, setting up that automatic transfer, that's where it's to going. Going is you're automating it into your emergency fund. Once that emergency fund is done, then we're paying off our credit card debt. Because credit cards are really expensive. I love credit cards. I don't knock them. There's other financial experts out there that are like, never touch a credit card. No, you're an adult. I'm going to treat you like one. I love credit cards because I'm flying to Mexico for free. I'm flying in like, lie down flat Seats to Paris for free.

[Ashley Hess]

Talk about the cards and stuff.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah, but they're like, they're tools. They're knives, right? Knives can make you dinner. They can also cut you if you mishandle. So credit cards used responsibly are great tools. But if you do have credit card debt, this is where we're going to start paying it off. And I will give you the ultimate hack to paying off debt. You ready? Okay. So when we're thinking about debt, the principal and the interest are the two components of debt. The vast majority of women actually go into debt statistically because they can't explain how a loan works. It's not because they're stupid. It's because the education isn't there. So the principal is the amount of money you took out. So if you put $1,000 on a credit card and do not pay it off off, you now have $1,000 in your principal. The interest is the cost of that debt. So for most credit cards, it's like 22% on average, right? It's really, really high. And how the interest is applied depends on the loan. So the thing with credit cards, the thing that makes them such slippery slopes if you don't manage them responsibly is that, that interest compounds, which means the interest earns interest and the interest compounds daily.

[Ashley Hess]

This is just money. You're literally lighting on fire.

[Tori Dunlap]

Literally.

[Ashley Hess]

And we all did it like, I mean, so hard.

[Raina Greenberg]

Some very. Well, you remember when we were in college, they used to be able to set up outside pizza shops, give you a free pizza with a credit card.

[Tori Dunlap]

So illegal.

[Raina Greenberg]

Now it's illegal.

[Tori Dunlap]

Such. And like I took out four credit.

[Raina Greenberg]

Cards in college and I.

[Tori Dunlap]

Because probably nobody taught you Victoria's Secret. I have a whole section of Victoria's Secret on my book because the amount of like 16 year old girls who walk in there and Victoria's secret, especially like 10, 15 years ago, would call it like the angel card. And it was like a rewards card. It was like not a credit card, it was a credit card, but it was not branded. Like it was.

[Raina Greenberg]

I still remember the morning that I was like maybe 20 years old and I woke up and I was in Pittsburgh and I told my parents I had taken out these credit cards because I couldn't sleep at night. And I had so much. I think I owed like $15,000. That was like an insurmountable amount. People commit suicide over this kind of stuff.

[Tori Dunlap]

I mean people, a lot of people die by suicide because of money. It's awful.

[Ashley Hess]

And I wasn't Realizing, like, you're literally lighting on fire. And I racked up a ton of credit card debt. Whatever. I eventually got out of it. And then I was. I was like, I finally had savings. I had figured it out somewhat and was like, I'm opening. I want a Delta Amex. And I was like, I am paying that off every month. It's only for the.

[Tori Dunlap]

You treat it like a debit card.

[Ashley Hess]

Like, yes, treat it like a debit card. I only doing this for the perks. I'm not doing this to buy things I can't afford. And I want to hear you speak on that because, like, that was a foreign concept to me five years before that.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Like, my credit card was to buy things I couldn't afford.

[Tori Dunlap]

Totally. So I'll round out with the hack about paying off your debt and then we'll go there. So principal and interest, right? The interest. Interest for credit cards is compounding every day. And that's why it feels like such a slippery slope, because it's just like, you can't dig your way out of a hole when the sand's coming back.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes, great metaphor.

[Tori Dunlap]

So if we can lower our principal, you're going to pay less in interest, right? Because if the interest rate is 22% on a thousand dollars, that's expensive. If it's on 800, well, that's cheaper. Right. You're not going to pay as much interest and it's not going to accumulate as fast. So what you're gonna do, whether this is credit cards, student loans, any sort of debt, is you're gonna call whoever your debt provider is. So, okay, I have a Capital one credit card that I'm in debt on. Call Capital One and literally ask them, how do I make principal only payments? Like, how do I send extra money just to the principal? When I had a car, like, I got my first car when I graduated college, and I remember my car payment was like 450 bucks a month. And then I had an extra $50. So I. So I just sent it in and I was having to write checks at this time, and they took $50 off of next month's payment. So instead of $450, I owed $400. But it didn't help at all because it's just like, okay, I just, like, prepaid next month. So I called them and I was like, hey, how do I send money just to the principal? And they're like, oh, in order to do that, you have to send separate money in a separate check in a separate envelope to a P.O. box in aisle that we're only going to give you the address to once you have called and asked. This is what happens is companies are sneaky. They make it really hard to pay off your debt faster because it keeps you in debt, it makes them more money. So anytime you can call or visit the website and just be like, okay, how do I make principal only payments? Or how can I start lowering the interest rate of the loan too? Like the I'm financially struggling card is fantastic. Call your credit card provider, call whoever your debt is through and just be like, like one how do I make principal only payments? And if they won't let you, or even if they do, then go, I'm financially struggling. Like what can you offer me? Okay, they'll sometimes offer you a lower interest rate. So okay, we went from 22 to 18, it's still high. But you're saving 4%. That's huge.

[Raina Greenberg]

Absolutely.

[Tori Dunlap]

So there's a lot of things that you can do. And again we have an entire chapter on debt payoff in the book. But there's a lot of things that you can do to either make your debt more manageable so you can start paying it off or like learn how to navigate the really non transparent system so that you're saving money.

[Raina Greenberg]

So do you have advice? And I'm glad this doesn't happen as much like when I was in college I took out all these different credit cards. I had debt spread across a bunch of banks. Do you have advice for like combining your debt onto one card?

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Would you advise people to do that?

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah, we have more information. I'm not going to give like personal finance is personal. So I can't say it's 100 the solution for everybody. But we talk about like personal loans a lot as a great way for you to take, especially if you have a lot of credit card debt and consolidate it because then you're making one payment. It's also way lower interest. It's typically like 12% or 10% as opposed to 25. And it doesn't compound every day. It's simple interest, it doesn't compound. So what you see is what you get. We have a personal loan recommendation on our website as well.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's a great tip.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'll link all of this for you guys so you can put it in the show. Notes, notes. But you had a question too about debt, I mean.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, again, when I was younger I wasn't fully realizing how much money I was just lighting on fire. And then I was like, oh, the point of Credit cards is to, at least now, as a, you know, at this stage of my life, is to use them for the purse, build credit, get perks, and not buy stuff once I've cleaned out my debit account, you know, and it's just. It's tough to talk about because people are like, well, I want to go on this vacation and I can't afford it, so I put on my credit card. And then it's just like, it's a. It's a tough discussion to have because you're like, I get that we've. We've all been there, but you are just gonna pay more in the end. So I don't know, it's like a trick, tricky thing.

[Tori Dunlap]

Like, it's so hard. And it's like, this is why I talk about. It's gonna, like, make me a little teary, but, like, this is why this work is so important, is I don't want you living a life that makes you miserable. I don't want you to have to say no to things you want to say yes to, and I don't want you to have to say, you know, yes to things you want to say no to. Right. Like, there's a balance here. So this is why when we get our financial house in order, you get to say, yeah, I'm going to be a bridesmaid, even if it costs me $2,000. Yeah, I'm going to go on this trip with you because I have the savings. I have all of that set up. So maybe it would be helpful to talk about, like, how to balance spending and saving. Would that be helpful?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, and I guess I'll wrap it up with one final thing. And again, this is just kind of like a tough love question to ask yourself. Is like, when you put all that money on a credit card, what's the plan? Are you. Do you plan on making more? You know, like, everybody's a different psychological reason. I mean, for me, I was like, I am on a path to make more. Like, I'm. I'm in a weird industry. You know, at least I could hope. Like, things are going to blow up for me. And they. They did. I mean, it took a long. It was a long road to get there. And I really didn't feel financially stable at all till I was late 20s, maybe even 30. But, like, like, if you're in the same job with no really plans to change your situation, like, what are you telling yourself of how you're gonna pay off that $2,000 in the future? Yeah, this is hard so that's why we're doing this. You're putting money in your savings and you're figuring out for yourself long term so you don't get in those holes.

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, and I wanna highlight what you just said, because it's so smart and so important. And again, this is where we see the difference between women and men. We've been socially conditioned to believe that we become rich or become financially stable through scrimping and through frugality. But men have been taught, make more money. That's the good advice. And I need more women to be thinking about, how can I afford this because I'm making more money, not because I'm scrimping to the point of, again, hating my life. So you're probably underpaid. Like, in your 9 to 5 job, you're probably underpaid. So if you have not had a conversation about compensation with your boss, great time to do that. We have a whole script in my book about how to do that. If you're not thinking about, like, okay, what are money moves? Like the high yield savings account. I don't have to do any additional work and I make money. Great. That's an additional source of income purely because your money is in a different place. That's a way to make more money. You can start either making those big decisions of like, okay, I think it's time for me to start really looking for a new job, or maybe it's time to invest in a side hustle or even just, you know what? I need to be in this kind of bank account versus this other one. These are the small decisions you can start to make. Make that immediately make more money for you so you don't have to think about, oh, my God, okay, I have to cut this because I can't afford it. It's more, how do I make more money? How do I think strategically? And we were talking about Ramit before, and he has this great quote of, like, stop thinking about $3 decisions and start thinking about $30,000 decisions. So it's like, how do I make more money? How do I invest more? And I know we want to talk about that. Like, how do I make my money work harder for me as opposed to stressing about, like, the little things like the lattes or the stuff that I'm spending money on, right?

[Ashley Hess]

So when you're saying, like, I'll pay it off when I make more, do.

[Tori Dunlap]

The things to make more, you have to make more. Any financial decision, you do need to make a plan, especially if you're like, okay, I'm spending this money I don't really have. I'm going to be honest, I don't love that. But I can't convince you otherwise. Like, if you're going to do it, you're going to do it, but you need to then have a plan to know. Okay, I'm putting it on a 0% APR credit card, but that 0% ends in 12 months. So I better have a plan to pay off my credit card debt by then. So if you're gonna make certain, you know, adjustments to your money or you're gonna make certain choices, you gotta have a reason for doing it and you've gotta have a plan.

[Raina Greenberg]

Do you talk in the book and maybe I skimmed over this about salary negotiation?

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. We have a whole chapter about earning.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. And then if so, you know, I read statistics about, like, it's hard to get a huge increase at your current job. Typically believe you can get huge increases.

[Tori Dunlap]

I mean, there's a reason I was job hopping every two years.

[Raina Greenberg]

Uhhuh. But I think people, women specifically, are really socialized to think, like, I don't want to ask for too much. I don't want to over ask. My father owns a. A headhunting recruiting business. And so I was raised to really know how to negotiate a salary. But I remember him, like, basically like holding my feet to the fire, being like, no one is going to get rid of you because you asked for a little more money in this interview process.

[Ashley Hess]

Nope.

[Raina Greenberg]

But that's a really hard skill to learn and ask for way more money.

[Tori Dunlap]

Totally. We have in every chapter almost like the narratives that you're believing. So the spending narratives. Right. That's the like, frivolous spending thing we talked about. So in the earning chapter, one of those is like, oh, my loyalty will pay off. Like, women believe that of like, they're gonna see me, I'm gonna keep my head down, I'm gonna do good work, and they will give me a raise. No, they won't. Like, they won't.

[Ashley Hess]

They're gonna keep paying you what you've been doing.

[Tori Dunlap]

They're gonna love.

[Raina Greenberg]

They're gonna love that you're doing more for less.

[Tori Dunlap]

Totally. And so you have more negotiation power when you first start a job, like when you're interviewing than you will ever have at your entire tenure of employment there.

[Raina Greenberg]

Totally.

[Tori Dunlap]

So it's like the stigma around job hopping is a thing of the past. Like, post Covid, things are just so different now. And it's come to be expected, especially with people who are in their 30s or 20s. And then, yeah, you have more power like when you first. So you have to negotiate. Companies expect you to negotiate. Most companies, one won't even give you a range sometimes on the job description. Right. But then they'll tell you, oh, this job pays 70k or whatever. They expect you to ask for 75 or 80. They have that budgeted and ready to go. And if you can't negotiate salary, we have literally a whole list in the book about everything you can negotiate Besides that. So PTO 401k, work from home, hybrid work, like options, stock options. There's a million things you negotiate a sign on bonus. Right. Besides just your salary.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, the corporate world is so different than when I was in it.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's crazy.

[Raina Greenberg]

I worked at Amazon, I worked at Groupon. I mean, I cannot speak to what that's like, but it never benefited me financially to double my workload. It was just like, thanks kid.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, and they'll just give me more. Yeah, well, and then you know, to your point about like job hopping and leaving, of course it doesn't look good if you get fired all the time. We're not talking about that. But you know, then your current job could pay you to stay. You know, if you are going to.

[Tori Dunlap]

Leave their job, there's ways to frame everything. Right. In a way that isn't like you. So like, hey, I actually just got, you know, this really interesting message from this recruiter and I had a conversation and they actually offered me $10,000 more than what I'm making right now. And I love it here. I would love to find a way where I can stay. How do we find a way I can stay together?

[Ashley Hess]

And then they give it to you and you're like, oh, you had it the whole time.

[Tori Dunlap]

Oh, absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

And then you're pissed.

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, because especially now as an employer, like, you know, we have a pretty sizable team. And it's like it is so much more expensive to go out and try to find somebody than it is to retain really good talent.

[Ashley Hess]

So you just gotta hope you're really good.

[Raina Greenberg]

I don't know if you go to your employer and say, like, I, I need more money to survive. My, my living costs have gone.

[Tori Dunlap]

Okay, can I say that, please? That is actually something we don't want to do. Yeah, okay.

[Ashley Hess]

I was just gonna say okay because. No, I just, I know you don't believe that. We know that's not how you would go into a negotiation. I need more money for my life.

[Tori Dunlap]

My Air1 water is really expensive. Can I?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Tori Dunlap]

So let's talk about it. Because.

[Raina Greenberg]

Let's talk about it.

[Tori Dunlap]

Super cool. Common. Yeah, it's like the. My student loan payments are starting back up again, and so I need money. The employer doesn't care. Yeah, they don't. I do. Right. Because I'm a nice employer. But, like, at the end of the day, you are there to provide value to an organization.

[Raina Greenberg]

Right.

[Tori Dunlap]

So the best thing you can do is think about not how much do I need? Like, what is the market telling me I should be getting paid? So when I go on, you know, Glassdoor or these, like, salary sites, when I start talking to other people in the industry, like, my background was a social media manager, so before I would go negotiate for a job, I'd be asking other people in marketing, like, what are you getting paid or pay based on the job description of what I'm doing? What do you think this job should get priced at? The other reason we want to do that is because then it doesn't feel so personal because if you go in and you're like, I need to make rent. I have to do this. Like, the cost of living is really expensive.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, also, I guess the employer is also welcome to say, like, I didn't tell you to live there.

[Tori Dunlap]

I didn't tell you to rent an.

[Raina Greenberg]

Apartment or make these financial decisions.

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, and then you're really scared about that negotiation because it feels such high stakes. And if they tell you no, it feels like, again, a personal thing as opposed to no. This is what the data is.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Tori Dunlap]

This is what I should be getting paid because of this data. How do we find a way to get there together?

[Raina Greenberg]

But just to be clear, are you saying, like, go to your employer and say, this is what Glassdoor says is a common salary for me, or you would not.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'll give you the script. You ready? Yeah. Okay. So I call it the gratitude sandwich. This is really important for women because when we ask for money, and this is why we talk in the, in my book and our podcast about, like, you can make all the financial decisions that are, you know, 100% fantastic. But the entire world does not like women with money like you have. Unfortunately, women just existing. Right. You have this against you, so you have to play to that. So your first thing. Gratitude, first piece of bread. I love working here, or thank you so much for this job offer. I'm really excited you're going to list. You know, oh, this, this is great. And I love the team or I loved getting to know you, blah, blah, blah, Gratitude. The Meat of the sandwich is the ask. Based on the market data, for this position to be fairly compensated. I'm looking for a range of X to Y. So I did three really important things there. First, based on the market data, I've done the research, I've talked to people, I have it, you're not citing particular sources because then your boss is going to go to Glassdoor and they're going to find the data that doesn't support what you want. Right. So based on the market data, one, you've done your research, I've done my homework. I'm not just asking for a million dollars, right, to be fairly compensated. What happens then is that your boss is going, I'm not unfair, I want to fairly compensate this person. And then you're asking for a range. You are not asking for the range you discover through conversations or through on Glassdoor. Right. If Glassdoor says 70 to 75, you need to be asking for 75 to 80 or 75 to 85, because you're going to hopefully land in the middle. So we're asking for more than what we want because if we get it, great. But if we don't, then you're willing to come down and then you're right in the range. The thing that's really important. So that was the meat of the sandwich, little condiment, your mayo, your aioli, whatever. Right? You say, I would love to get to a number we can collaboratively agree on that shows I am willing to have a conversation. I want to make this, this.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm not making demands.

[Tori Dunlap]

A collaboration, not a conflict. Right. This is a problem we're trying to solve together. And for women especially, who are conflict averse, who are scared of a negotiation, damaging their career in some way, that is so powerful. And then the last piece of bread. Again, gratitude. Thank you so much. Looking forward to working with you on this. And that's your negotiation. I love it.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's, it takes the emotion out of it. It says, I took the time to research this, I would love to collaborate.

[Tori Dunlap]

And if you don't negotiate too honestly, it's kind of a red flag. Flag. It's like, sure, for me as an employer, I'm like, oh, if they're not negotiating now, I'm a little different. Because like we list the salary range. I don't do the. Because I'm like, I know how hard it is. But for most employers, if you don't negotiate, it's kind of like, oh, I just got this person for really cheap. Maybe they're not great Yes, I agree with that.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I worked at sales jobs at big corporate companies. And they want you to negotiate because they want to, especially with sales. It's like sales, you got to negotiate.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's a skill.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't know, some, some companies pay you, they don't undercut you. I think when we come up with salaries, we see what the market rate is and we go there or higher.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I think you and I are really fair. And you and I do a lot of research. Do we ask people around us to see what they're paying?

[Ashley Hess]

Yes. I don't. We don't give them the low ball offer.

[Tori Dunlap]

This is why when women have money, nothing bad happens because we're all fair. We're doing the market research. I literally have, in our job descriptions now, I post a range. Right. And I also say like, hey, we don't have to do the bullshit. This truly is the range. I'm not like secretly withholding money.

[Ashley Hess]

That's how we roll.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah, but most people don't do that. Right. And it's usually most male dominated workplaces don't do that.

[Raina Greenberg]

So it doesn't fall on them. Like if you and I underpay somebody, Rain and Ashley are under paying somebody in their assholes. If agree on underpays somebody.

[Ashley Hess]

Right.

[Raina Greenberg]

Who does that fall on? Nobody.

[Ashley Hess]

I just want to compensate people for their work.

[Tori Dunlap]

Absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

And have them do a good job.

[Tori Dunlap]

Absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

Absolutely.

[Tori Dunlap]

But unfortunately, this is not. That's not the MO of most business owners.

[Ashley Hess]

And then for just really quick to close the loop on asking for more money. What if you are making the market rate and you just want more? You're like, I'm doing really well. I've been here for a long time.

[Tori Dunlap]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

Is that more of like considered job?

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, then it's performance, then it's performance based increases or it's okay, I need to go get another job or it's okay, the salary is actually pretty decent. So that's where I negotiate pto, that's where I negotiate, you know, more flexible time. That's where I negotiate a better title. That's my favorite thing to negotiate because it doesn't cost the employer anything, but it sets you up but better for the next job. So, you know. Yeah. When I was the only, you know, social media person, I became head of social. Right. It sounded sexier, it was more exciting. But I was, I was a team of one. Right. So then I could set myself up better for more money, better job title further on the line.

[Raina Greenberg]

I always remember my dad saying to me no one is going to end an interview with you because you asked for more money. Don't be delusional and ask for something crazy. But no one's going to have dedicated this much time and energy to you. And just hang up the phone and let's be real.

[Tori Dunlap]

If they did, you don't want to work there because they are showing you that they will never have a hard conversation with you. Like, they are not willing to see your value now. They're definitely not willing to see your value the next six months. Year. Two years. Six years.

[Ashley Hess]

Love that note.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay. What's next, Raina?

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, we, we're talking about credit cards. I just, I want you to give your advice. Do you have some credit cards that you like? Yeah, I want to close the loop on that.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Tori Dunlap]

Again, I'm going to sound like a broken record. We have all of it on our website because we're asked about it all the time. Her first 100 K.com tools I'm a.

[Raina Greenberg]

Chase Sapphire reserve girly or Chase Sapphire Reserve girlies.

[Ashley Hess]

We love a platinum amex.

[Tori Dunlap]

No as well. The annual fee is getting worse and worse every year. I'm like, I do it for the lounges because the AMEX lounge in Seattle is.

[Ashley Hess]

But now those chefs lounges are coming up on amex.

[Raina Greenberg]

They are.

[Tori Dunlap]

But the other thing, I was literally at the airport yesterday before I flew out. And every single time at the AMEX lounge in Seattle, all they're at capacity and it makes me want to single handedly cancel my card. But let's talk about credit cards and how powerful they are because everybody thinks, you know, great credit cards, okay, if I use them responsibly. Cool. Tori. Why would I do that one? You're building your credit. We live unfortunately in a fucked up system where your credit score is kind of your adult gpa, right? It's like how well you're doing at life. And if you want a house, if you want an apartment, if you want sometimes a job, they check your credit. Sometimes your electric company to get your electricity. You have to check your credit.

[Ashley Hess]

So.

[Tori Dunlap]

So we're building credit. That's the easiest way to do that. Second, the perks. And we're not just talking about the hotel stays for free, the lie down flat seats for free. Although all of that's true and real. I was in London two years ago, year and a half ago, I got my phone stolen, my brand new iPhone stolen out from under me. I had to replace it, obviously. So that was $1,000 down the drain. And then an additional thousand dollars. My credit card covered it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Why? Remember when Rob got. Yeah, Rob got robbed. Rob's gonna rob, I think in France. Took his whole bag with everything. And his platinum ambulance Amex covered it.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yep. I just rented a car. Additional car rental.

[Raina Greenberg]

Preferred membership that's just free.

[Tori Dunlap]

Included travel credit, 200 travel credit, clear TSA pre check, Uber credit, Door dash credit. Right. There's a million reasons why a credit card is really, really powerful in addition to all the sexy stuff. But like when hits the fan, like when you're somewhere that you know you need to get home from, I almost consider it like a secondary emergency fund. Right. Like somebody in your family gets sick, you're having to do an overnight cross country flight that costs twelve hundred dollars. Okay, cool. Do it on your points. Right. Then it's not an additional cost. Again, something happens when you're abroad, you need to replace your phone. You need to do something. Okay. Do it on your points or do it with the protection that the card offers. So especially again while everybody's freaking out about money right now, you have your emergency fund, your actual, you know, and a high yield savings account. And then your points, in addition to all the sexy perks of like free travel, can also be like a secondary emergency fund for you.

[Ashley Hess]

I would encourage people who I have not, I can't even claim to have done this so much in depth. It's to really look at all those perks.

[Tori Dunlap]

Absolutely. So that's the other thing I want to highlight really quick is a lot of people see the like a $500 annual fee and they're like, it pays for itself.

[Ashley Hess]

It pays for itself. It really does.

[Tori Dunlap]

But so don't be scared by that.

[Ashley Hess]

And then when you book with them, sometimes you get like a hundred dollar credit.

[Tori Dunlap]

So the hotel I'm staying at now, yeah, free breakfast. I have a $200 on site credit it. I got free upgrades. Check in. Yeah, I got a free upgrade. A bigger room. Yep, absolutely.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes. Get involved in all of that. Okay, so we will talk about investing, but I just want to like talk about over consumption for one second because we're talking about credit cards and just spending habits in general. Because after the situation that happened to me in college when I had all this debt and my parents were wonderful to help me and then I owed them the money, but I didn't know all the interest. I made a promise myself that I'm just, I'm not going to spend more than I have. I pay off my credit card every, every single month. I always have since that time. And I always remember would, like, look around all these girlies and be like, how are they affording these bags? How are they? And it's like, oh, because they're overspending because they can't afford it, or because.

[Tori Dunlap]

Somebody'S paying and we just don't know it.

[Ashley Hess]

True.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's right.

[Tori Dunlap]

Or they can actually afford it. But that's usually. Especially in your early 20s, that's usually not the case.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

So, I mean, do you have some advice for over consumption, overspending, spending habits?

[Tori Dunlap]

Okay. I don't need you to stop spending money. I need you to stop spending money on shit you don't care about. A lot of us spend a lot of money on stuff that we look back on and either completely forgot we bought. Right. The amount of, like, Amazon packages that get sent to you, and you're like, I don't know what's in this box until I open it. Like, that's probably a red flag. It's at least like, a pink flag. Or just like, I'm mindlessly spending to try to fill a void. There's a lot of things outside our control right now. There's a lot of panic. It's very easy. Just like any other vice. Alcohol, weed, need, sex. Right. It's very easy to just go, okay, I need something to make me feel better, so I'm gonna spend money.

[Ashley Hess]

It's like a drink. It's like.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yep.

[Ashley Hess]

It's a vice. Like a hits like a dopamine.

[Tori Dunlap]

It really is. You get it proven in our brain.

[Ashley Hess]

You buy it, you get it, and when it shows up, you get it again. That's why I feel like people really did it during COVID because they, like, needed a thing.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yep. And also, like, I got mail. You know, I'm like Steve from Bruce Clues, and I get mail, and it's exciting, you know? So the practice I have everybody do. And it's in my book as well, is what are your three value categories? These are the three areas in your life where you get the most joy. I want you spending pretty unabashedly where you're talking about bucket number three. Right. Your fun bucket. My bucket number three is filled with the things that I really value. So for me, it is plants. We were talking about that before. I love plants. Decor in my home.

[Raina Greenberg]

Right.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'm such a homebody. I love that. It's travel and it's food out. Those are the three areas in my life where I do the most spending.

[Raina Greenberg]

You and me. Are you in the same bucket? I know. Are you the same?

[Tori Dunlap]

Great, I love it. But like, like, am I buying the occasional coffee? Absolutely. But if I'm looking back on my budget and I'm seeing, oh, I spent a lot of money, then that either means my value categories are wrong and I actually do value this thing, or I'm spending my money on things that I don't really give a shit about. Like it's 2025. I want you spending your money, your hard earned money on stuff you actually like that actually makes your life better. And if you're not, I need you to reframe. So just look through your purchases. Like, how many of these things fit with those three value categories? How many don't? And I have a feeling a lot of them don't. So then you decide, right? This is where people start to feel, oh my gosh, it's restrictive. No, you're just deciding. Actually, this is what I like more. And I give an example. It was like a. I wish I could remember the name off the top of my head, but she was a personal finance blogger who talked about it as taco dollars. Tacos were her favorite thing to spend money on. So anytime she was gonna spend money on something else, she would ask herself, like, how much is this in taco dollars? And this is what I do. Like, okay, I'm about to spend $100 on something. Well, 100 could get me to LA. Is it worth, you know, not being able to travel as much? Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes the answer is no.

[Ashley Hess]

That's great. Like hotel or flights. Like, right?

[Tori Dunlap]

You ground it in the thing you really love. So for her it was tacos, right? Okay, I'm about to spend, you know, 100 bucks. How many tacos is that? Right? Is that worth it? And so that way you're always starting to be more mindful of your purchases as opposed to just like, I'm spending this money, I don't fucking care. I'm not going to think twice about, about it.

[Ashley Hess]

I love that. And I mean, I really think a great example is like a designer bag where you're like, that's literally a flight. That's a, that's a trip.

[Tori Dunlap]

And for some people, maybe you don't.

[Ashley Hess]

Care about travel, but I mean, maybe it's the bags that's your values. But like, to me, I'm like, that's a flight in a hotel.

[Tori Dunlap]

Totally. And some people, that's. That some people want the bag, right? Like, you know, I'm a multimillionaire. I thought about the designer thing. I went and did it. It did not give me the rush that I see some people on TikTok where they're like, okay, I've loved this bag for four years. I like, took it out of the box and I, like, cried. That's not me at all. But a nice hotel. I'll spend any amount of money on a nice hotel. So, like, you start to learn that of like, okay, what do I actually like spending my money on? What it again? Because I worked really hard for this money. And if it's not giving you that sense of, like, euphoria or like, joy. I love going out to eat with my friends. I will throw down $800 on a really good meal with the three people that mean the most to me. I am so fine doing that. That's like, I'm about to go home. I have a chef friend in Seattle who's closing his restaurant. I'm doing a tasting menu with my partner. It's a thousand dollars. It's a lot of money, but I know that that's great memory. Totally. And it's really good food. That's what I love spending my money on. But if I drop a thousand dollars on a Chanel belt or whatever, that's not going to give me the same hit. So you have to just figure out where do you want your money to go? And again, I'm talking in thousands of dollars. This is in $20 purchases too.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, but those add up. I think about that all the time. Like T shirts. Yeah, my T shirt. All the shit I buy on Amazon, all that stuff. I started to think my closet in terms of like dollar signs and all the stuff that I buy. And I look at just all these dollar signs just stacked up. And so I've just been selling on Poshmark like crazy and I'm stopping doing this stuff.

[Ashley Hess]

Sure. Does your kink returning and selling stuff is like, great.

[Raina Greenberg]

I feel like I make that money back.

[Tori Dunlap]

And let me tell you, the dopamine hack that I love, the same dopamine hit that you get from spending. And I'm not. I know this sounds like bullshit, but it's true. You can get it from transferring your to money savings. Oh. Like you can get like in your brain the same hit that you get from adding to cart from buying from. Like you get looking at your bank.

[Ashley Hess]

Account when you're saving.

[Tori Dunlap]

You get the same hit when you're transferring money or buying stocks. Like, turn your stocks into the thing you buy. Right. I like this because then you can take your money. It compounds it's actually, again, this is gonna sound so nerdy and everybody listening is gonna be like, it doesn't work that way. But I promise you it does. When you start seeing that your money's earning money, that's the thing that becomes addictive.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

You mean there's a reason why your business is called your first 100k is like when you made that and you had it and you saw it in your bank account. I was talking to a friend recently who had that experience and like saving 100k and he was just like, this was a dream, you know, like this the way that feels. You can't buy anything that's gonna. That feeling is valuable.

[Tori Dunlap]

And again, then you get to spend pretty unabashedly because you know you're financially taken care of. If you do all of the stuff you.

[Raina Greenberg]

That.

[Tori Dunlap]

That feels a little inconvenient. And I have a whole chapter about self care and like the money habits and all of that. And like self care has been commodified. We think self care is like the glass bottle of wine or like the, you know, bubble bath at the end of the hard day. Those are self soothing actions. Those are the things you do in the moment to make yourself feel better because you had a shit day. Right? So again, the face mask, the bubble bath. Self care is the hard shit. Like self care is eating a salad when you don't want to eat a goddamn salad, going into the gym when you don't want to go to the gym, having a hard conversation, going to therapy and yeah, looking at your money. It's the stuff that feels really inconvenient in the moment, but makes future use life so much better. And like that's what real self care is. And so when we're thinking about again, trying to be able to afford our lives, trying to make sure we're taking care of ourselves, self care will feel uncomfortable while you're doing it, especially at first. But it's gonna make future use life so much easier.

[Ashley Hess]

Tor, I love you. Yeah, I do love you. Can we do investing?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, let's just do investing a little bit.

[Ashley Hess]

And we're.

[Raina Greenberg]

We do encourage people. Your. Your book is phenomenal.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'm always happy to come back too because I mean, I wrote an entire.

[Ashley Hess]

Book about it for the Timothy episode.

[Tori Dunlap]

Don't tell me with a good time, baby girl.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, like so much of this stuff is on your site in the book. And I do have to say we asked our audience what they wanted to know from you and it was investing, overwhelming paying off debt and investing were the top two.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I think that people are like, I don't understand the stock market. But there are other ways to obviously invest besides just the stock market.

[Tori Dunlap]

The stock market is a great place to start. So again, I wrote a whole book about it. I'll try to keep this brief.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, if somebody says, I don't know the first thing about investing, what's my first step? Day one.

[Tori Dunlap]

Okay, so the reason you don't know anything about investing is one, nobody taught you. We've kind of established that. But two, there is a multi, multi billion dollar industry built on making you feel like you're too stupid to understand.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes.

[Tori Dunlap]

And that is the finance industry.

[Ashley Hess]

The whole point.

[Tori Dunlap]

That is the Wall street chads and Patagonia vests who are like, oh, I know, it's really confusing. So just give me the money and I'll go invest it for you. And I. I'll take 3%. Crazy. I know 3% doesn't sound like a lot. That's fucking insane.

[Raina Greenberg]

When you're only making like seven. It's a lot.

[Tori Dunlap]

Or we hope we're all millionaires and millions of dollars.

[Ashley Hess]

And then 3% of a million dollars.

[Raina Greenberg]

A ton of money.

[Tori Dunlap]

So this is the stat that blew my mind. 25% of professional stock pickers in the past 10 years have outperformed individual investors. So I'm going to break that down. Only a quarter of people who are professionals, who are supposed to be good at their jobs are actually good at their. Their jobs. That's insane. Yeah. If I had to have surgery and I had to work with a doctor that had a 25 success rate, I wouldn't work with them. That's crazy. So you can invest yourself. You can do this. I promise you that it's not as complicated as they make it out to be. Men love to make things more complicated. Truly a man. Truly. And they love to. They love to make it more complicated because it's like an ego boost.

[Ashley Hess]

And like, we.

[Tori Dunlap]

We did better than you in school.

[Ashley Hess]

I know we did.

[Tori Dunlap]

And women are better investors than men. All the data.

[Ashley Hess]

I believe it.

[Tori Dunlap]

We don't do everything better than. What does the TikTok sound like? Man can. What is it?

[Raina Greenberg]

Can't be that hard. Men do it.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Ashley Hess]

That sounds like a Raina original.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's true. It's true.

[Raina Greenberg]

We're going to sell T shirts and say that.

[Tori Dunlap]

So please don't give your money to a man like Truly.

[Ashley Hess]

Scott, you're fired. Brett, you're fired.

[Tori Dunlap]

Truly. Mark Bryant, my Brother, you don't need like a Wall street chad to come and save you. You really don't.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love the guy who manages my money. He's wonderful.

[Ashley Hess]

We have great. No, no, no.

[Raina Greenberg]

But like, his sister listens to the show and I've known him since he was like in kindergarten. The stuff I've seen this kid do. I can't even honestly believe that I give him my money. It's insane.

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, and you know, I was just in a suite at this sounds such, like such a flex. I don't mean it to be, but I was just in the suite at Angel City FC last night with a bunch of like celebrity and famous people. And they were talking, you know, because they all want to talk about money with me. And they're like, oh, but I have a great financial guy. And every time I want to be like, do you?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Tori Dunlap]

Like, do you, do you know how, how he gets paid? Do you know what his fees are? Like, I'm not going to put you on blast, but we should talk about after. Like, do you know what his fees are? Because this is again, where we pay.

[Ashley Hess]

Someone else to monitor.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yes. And you feel like again we have.

[Raina Greenberg]

Another man on the call while they manage the man that manages our money.

[Ashley Hess]

We're joking. We'll tell you our situation. Actually, we're.

[Raina Greenberg]

But actually, Ashley, for sometimes I am like, I don't care. And Ashley has like forced me to be like, we've asked questions and I'm like.

[Tori Dunlap]

And again, for most people listening, you're probably not running, you know, a multi million dollar business. You're not doing any of this. But it's the same thing. It's like, oh, I'll go to Edward Jones. Because they're smart. No, they're not. They're terrible. They're awful.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh my God.

[Tori Dunlap]

Like, they're terrible. Okay. And so, okay, here's what you need to know about investing. One investing is a two step process. This is the number one mistake I see women make. It costs them millions of dollars.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh my God.

[Tori Dunlap]

It is not like a bank account. You open a bank account, you put $1,000 in, you're done, you're good. Right? That's step. One investing is a two step process. You have to put your money in to a Roth IRA, a 401K. This is the account that holds the investments. Those are not the investments themselves. Okay, Step two is you have to go buy the investments. So we'll talk about index funds in a second. But you could buy stocks, index funds, etc. It's almost like your stocks going into your share.

[Ashley Hess]

Shoes.

[Tori Dunlap]

A lot of people think it's just shoes. It's not. It's like a gift card. I put money on the gift card. I go to go buy things with the gift card. So I have seen countless women, they message me every day. They go, I didn't know it was two steps. I put my money in the Roth IRA. I didn't do anything else. And I've lost 10 years of investment earnings because no one told me. The story I tell in the book is a woman. I've named her sweet little Rose. Rose was a public school teacher. She saved a portion of her paycheck in her 401k for 35 years. I have told the story so many times, and every time it gets me. She went to retire. She was 65.

[Ashley Hess]

No.

[Tori Dunlap]

Showed up and was like, okay, I'm ready. And they're like, you only have $300,000 now. That sounds like a lot, but it was $300,000. That could have been earning. She could have made four or five million dollars off that money. She did not have enough money to retire. I cannot. I'm looking straight down the barrel into the camera. I cannot have this be you because this is again, the lack of education, the, oh, I'll just give my money to a guy because I'm so scared to like, no, I need you to manage. I need you to know step one, step two. So step one, let's talk about the accounts. 401ks IRAs. These are great places to put your money. These are retirement accounts and they're tax advantaged. That means that the government is incentivizing you to save for retirement. They're like dangling a carrot and they're like, hi, if you put some money in these accounts, we are going to give you tax breaks in exchange. And they're for your retirement. That's great. We want to have 65 year old us living our best lives. 65 year old me is going to be drinking sauvignon blanc with lunch and flirting with her much younger palace Pilates instructor named Luca. Like, this is my real life retirement plan.

[Raina Greenberg]

Tori, we're gonna be with you.

[Ashley Hess]

Great.

[Tori Dunlap]

She has, she has like a villa in Italy. She adopts dogs. It's a great time.

[Ashley Hess]

It's the wine at lunch that totally.

[Tori Dunlap]

I can't ever do that. Yes. She can't live that life. Start naming him.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, but when he starts asking you for 10k, just mom over here.

[Ashley Hess]

That's not Valentine's Day.

[Tori Dunlap]

Take my Dogs, take my dogs. Go walk my dogs. You. Yeah, that, like, that's the life I need for everybody. And you have to do a little bit heavy lifting now. So that is a great, like type of account to open. You get a 401k through your work. If you don't, or even if you do, an IRA is a great option. All of this is explained in the book in more detail. Step two is then what you're choosing to invest in. I personally love index funds. Index funds are groups of stocks. Women think investing is picking a hot stock. Amazon, Tesla, Elon, Musk, by the way.

[Raina Greenberg]

Go off, go off.

[Tori Dunlap]

Johnson and Johnson, I don't know, like Microsoft. Right. They think it's picking the hot stock. That is one of the riskiest forms of investing because you have put all of your eggs in that one basket. Right. And you're also then trying to predict, like, what company does. Well, that's impossible. So an index fund instead is just a group of stocks. So rather than 1, 2, 3, it's hundreds if not thousands of different companies. So you open the Roth IRA, you open the 401K, and then you choose an index fund. They're really low in fees. They help that diversification way. This is how I became a millionaire is I took all of my earnings from entrepreneurship. I set up my retirement accounts. I maxed them out every year, and if you can't max them out, still contribute. And I was making sure to diversify my investments in an index fund.

[Ashley Hess]

And this is an S&P 500 type vibe.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yep, you can do that. So S&P 500 is the top 500 companies on the US stock market. So I personally like VTI. That's my favorite index fund.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Tori Dunlap]

And we also have. I will shamelessly plug it because nothing like this exists. I built an app and a platform that teaches women step by step how to invest. I do life coaching. I actually have built an app with my co founders and my friends about how to like, actually, so you don't have to log on to your Fidelity, Schwab, Vanguard, Robinhood confusing account. You can actually get started investing. So I actually just rung the opening bell at the NASDAQ Stock Exchange because we were celebrating $80 million that has been invested. And the vast majority of that 80 million is by women who have never invested before. So if you're that person that's like, I have no idea how to invest. I would love to teach you. It's called Stock Market School.

[Ashley Hess]

That's the app.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yep.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay. This is also just like, thanks.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's my favorite thing. I invited. Oh, it's gonna really make me cry. I invited community members with me. So I was there with my coo, I was there with my business partners, my dad was there and it was like 40 of the women in our community and I got to ring the bell and I like still can't watch the footage without crying. But it's like, I'm crying. I can see that. So sweet.

[Ashley Hess]

But like, it's just that you're the real deal.

[Tori Dunlap]

Thank you. But it's like these women do it. Like I give them the path and then they have to go out and do it. And again, every part of society wants to keep you from having money because it makes you controllable. I want you to be uncontrollable. Like the patriarchy's worst nightmare is an uncontrollable woman. And I fucking love being the patriarchy's worst nightmare. And like, that's the feeling I want again for every single woman and is like, you know what? Yeah, 65 year old me's covered. 30 year old me is covered. Everybody's good. I can spend my money on things I love. I know I'm saving money. I know I have my plan together. So if shit hits the fan, I'm okay. Like, I need everybody listening to have that.

[Ashley Hess]

I love that. And again, this is like just scratching the surface of how to do it. We can't sit here and be like, I mean, you've given people the overview.

[Tori Dunlap]

But definitely if you did everything we talked about today, you are better off.

[Ashley Hess]

Than 99.9% of people just like getting in, doing the Roth IRA, whatever it is, like, you make it easier and all your other resources. But we did just want to touch a little bit on the current state. I mean, we can't really talk about money investing without kind of thinking about the recession looming and the fears that people are having given the presidency and the, you know, culturally, just everything being even worse for women and all of that.

[Tori Dunlap]

So our work has always been politically minded. The first thing we say in the book and in all our work is like the personal finance equation is about 20% your own choices. Right? So the things you can control, how well you budget, do you understand debt, do you know how to Invest? Right. And 80%, all of the things outside of our control, racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, a trillion dollar student debt crisis, stagnating minimum wages, lack of paid family leave federally in the country. Right. There's a lot of things. Climate change, there's a lot of things that have a way bigger impact on your money. So the first thing is to understand that that exists because it's very easy to believe that you're the problem problem.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Tori Dunlap]

You're often not the problem. Yeah, maybe you made some bad calls, maybe you overspent. Right. We can acknowledge that. But like, if you're constantly getting passed over for a raise because all of the men are making more money, that's not a huge problem. If you went into severe financial strain to care for your children because you didn't have paid maternity leave, that's not a you problem. So the first thing is to acknowledge that. So we have to control what we can control while we work to change everything else. So voting, protesting, calling your reps. Like, this is as much a financial action as is budgeting and saving. So super important. Yeah, everybody's freaking out right now. So let's talk about stock market crash, recession, trump, all of that. Everything I teach is exactly what you should be doing when it's sunny outside and exactly what you should be doing if it's a fucking hailstorm. It's the same thing. Emergency funds, paying off your debt. And yes, investing. Stock market crashes, if that is where we're going, is actually a really great time for you to invest. It is never a bad time to invest because when the stock market's doing great.

[Ashley Hess]

Cool.

[Tori Dunlap]

You're doing great. When the stock market's down, well, stocks are on sale. If you were going to buy a coat, that was $100 and now it's $50. Well, cool.

[Ashley Hess]

And then let me just jump in really quick. So when people are investing in the stock market, I mean, the point is kind of.

[Tori Dunlap]

Of like long term, you're in this for years.

[Ashley Hess]

I think that's kind of goes outside. But, you know, we. I didn't know this when I was in my early 20s. Like, again, you could be a day trader, whatever you want to do.

[Tori Dunlap]

But I mean, I would not recommend that.

[Ashley Hess]

But of course people do it and they make money. But I mean, just the point is that it's going to ebb and flow and you can't. Absolutely.

[Tori Dunlap]

It's a roller coaster. No, I would actually. This is the one time where I would actually, like, this is the ostrich effect, where you actually need to do this.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes.

[Tori Dunlap]

I'm a multi millionaire. I have millions of dollars on the stock market. If anybody should be freaking out right now, it's me. I'm not. I'm totally calm. You know why? Because I understand it's years, if not decades, if this even goes on for a year or two. Right. Like 2008, everybody freaked the out, rightfully. So I get it. It was a really hard financial time for people. But stocks, you have not lost money unless you choose to sell. It's kind of like a house, right? If I buy a house and then Zillow tells me five years later, it's worth $100,000 more. Great. But I don't have $100,000 in my pocket unless I sell that house. It's an asset. Asset. So the asset goes up in value and goes down in value. And it's not an accident that I became a millionaire the last time the stock market was down in 2020, 2021. I stayed the course. I kept investing. And then from 2020 to 2025, the stock market was up 140%. So even, you know, and as of this recording, who knows, we're recording this just like April 1st. So if the stock market does go down, well, we're looking still. We've climbed up 150%, 140%. So even if we go down 10% or 20% or 30%, we're still sitting really pretty compared to where we were a couple of years ago. So you have to stay the course. And we were talking about this before we hopped on Mike of like, you know, your financial guy is like, you have to, you know, you have to do this in the math. Maths. And it's like, ultimately you just have to manage your own emotions.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. And we have money in stocks. I have a lot of money in T bills.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. Look at you, Ashley.

[Ashley Hess]

When I talk to my financial guy.

[Raina Greenberg]

Told me to get those T bills.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean, the T bills are doing great.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I'm doing great.

[Ashley Hess]

And they're low risk and fear. I mean, my biggest fear is like, apocalyptic. So my biggest fear is my money in the banks are no longer protected.

[Tori Dunlap]

Okay. So if it's. Let's talk. Let's talk about that. If it's apocalypse, it's not the stock market. It's like if it is a zombie apocalypse. Right. The last thing you're going to be thinking about is like, how do the S&P 500 perform today? Right.

[Ashley Hess]

So this is going to be my money, though.

[Tori Dunlap]

Absolutely. But I mean, if you have taken care of yourself, I would rather go into the zombie apocalypse being like, yeah, I have a little bit of money than having no money money.

[Raina Greenberg]

She's afraid. I'm talking, like, gonna close down.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm talking like, it's just a number.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't have this money in my house. Like, I, I get this is really dark, but.

[Tori Dunlap]

No, but I'm getting this question for.

[Ashley Hess]

A lot of women, like, it's just a number. Where's the money? You know, like that one bank closed. What? In Silicon Valley. And, like, people lost their money.

[Tori Dunlap]

The banks have an FDIC insurance. Right.

[Ashley Hess]

And that's only a certain amount.

[Tori Dunlap]

Exactly.

[Ashley Hess]

No, but I, like, freak out.

[Tori Dunlap]

No, but this is really important. Let's talk about this. So the FDIC ins insurance for most banks is $250,000. Right. Most people don't have over $250,000 in their bank account. If the government really does go away, we have a lot of other problems, too. I don't have an answer for you. This is what.

[Ashley Hess]

See, and that's what my business manager said to.

[Tori Dunlap]

I said this.

[Ashley Hess]

I was like, the government's going to fall apart, all this stuff and everything. He was like, if that happens, you're going to have a lot of other issues. I'm like, yeah, but what's bigger than the money?

[Tori Dunlap]

I need my money. I'm actually.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm not going to have bigger issues of the government. What's going to happen?

[Ashley Hess]

Like. Like this. This is my only thing.

[Tori Dunlap]

Well, it's a Handmaid's Tale situation.

[Ashley Hess]

Exactly. But I really am even talking now. I really am doing everything right. But my fears are just stuff that you can't.

[Tori Dunlap]

You can't. And I also, I say this with all of the empathy in the world, because I, I've been wanting to talk about this, but in a way that doesn't make me sound like an asshole. I get that that's a fear. And again, so many people in our audience right now are just like, oh, my God. But Trump's doing this and he's doing this and he's doing Elon Musk. And I'm just like, okay, first of all, the panic is what he wants.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Tori Dunlap]

Like, the pan. That doesn't mean we can tell ourselves, do not panic. Like. But that is feeding into the energy of freaking out about everything. The second thing, too is it's like, this is the part that I can't control. Right. This is the part that is outside of my control. I think people often use it, and you're the exception to this. But I think people often use that as. And again, this sounds harsh. Please know I'm saying this with so much empathy. Right. This sounds like an excuse. Often. It's the excuse for not doing the things you can control. A lot of people are not saving for retirement because they're like, well, the earth's not going to be here because climate change. So why would I say. And I'm like, but what if it is?

[Raina Greenberg]

But what if it is still here?

[Tori Dunlap]

But what if it is?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I think we all do that. That's the thing. When you off, when it starts snowing outside, you're absolutely snow day.

[Raina Greenberg]

Absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

We're treating this.

[Tori Dunlap]

No, that's a great metaphor. Totally. And it's like, it's so much easier because I'm like, oh, but it's so. The world's so shitty. So, like, why would I do this? And I'm like, because it's the one thing you can control. And it's also going to give you some semblance of normalcy. Normalcy, normalcy, normalcy. There it is. But also just knowing, okay, I'm doing something. Even when the world feels like it's burning, I'm doing something. But the last chapter in my book is all about how do we use money as a tool to not only better our own lives, but better our communities. We listen to women focused and feminist centered media. Thank you everybody for listening. We support the kind of businesses we want to see. We protest. We think strategically about where and how our money and our voices goes. Like, this is the stuff that you can be doing when everything feels like such a shit show. Like, control the things you can control. Work to change everything else.

[Ashley Hess]

I love that.

[Tori Dunlap]

But yeah, I get it. I know.

[Ashley Hess]

I was even like, should I put this in Canada? You know?

[Tori Dunlap]

And like, I know a lot of people have been messaging me about offshore bank accounts. And again, my next question to them is, girl, do you have your emergency fund? And like, most people are like, no. And I'm like, so we can't be doing like Personal Finance 601 before we've done Personal Finance 101.

[Ashley Hess]

Exactly. Yeah. And again, I mean, some. The questions coming from us are not relatable to every single person.

[Tori Dunlap]

But the fear is real. And I just want to like, I don't have a solution for you. Except I was almost going to say, like, you're allowed to be worried when the rest of it's taken care of too. But, like, work to do that. Everybody listening, listening. And then we can all freak out. It's just like, you control the things you can control. The panic does not help. We do our best to mitigate that panic.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

And the financial advisors are like, this is not their fault. This is their job. But they're basing what they're telling their clients on historical data. And that's understandable, but I'm like, but it's unprecedented, you know, but we've had.

[Tori Dunlap]

A million unprecedented things. Like, I. I always think. Because I, you know, I have the same thoughts when I head hits a pillow at night and I'm like, oh, God, what if this really is the end? But, like, everybody thought World War I was the end. Everybody thought World War II was the end. Everybody thought the nuclear wars. Like, we've had 9, 11, right? Like, most of us were alive for 9 11. And I was young, but I remember thinking, like, everybody thought, oh, this is like, the world is about to end. Like, Y2K, right? Like, we've had a million of these moments, and I have to be optimistic and think we're gonna get through this.

[Ashley Hess]

I think that. I want to believe that. I just. I want to survive it.

[Tori Dunlap]

I know.

[Ashley Hess]

And keep my money.

[Tori Dunlap]

No, I get it. I know.

[Raina Greenberg]

We could talk to you for hours. Honestly, I would love to come back. I love what you're doing for women. I can't tell you how many people I've seen in my life have to stay in bad marriages because they couldn't afford to leave and stay at jobs that they felt really abused at that they couldn't leave. And you're giving people tools to be able to just have a better life. So thank you for what you're doing.

[Tori Dunlap]

I love your shit too. Thank you for just.

[Ashley Hess]

You're the best.

[Tori Dunlap]

Talking about the hard stuff and showing up and just. I love being professional yappers with you. It's just my favorite thing in the.

[Raina Greenberg]

Entire time I'm sitting back and do Timothy with us.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, God.

[Raina Greenberg]

My.

[Tori Dunlap]

My God.

[Raina Greenberg]

So just to, like, wrap up with something fun, we took this from your Instagram and you asked what is something that you've spent money on the last year that improved your life and your well being? So we posted it to ask our audience what they've spent their money on. I was very surprised by what, like, the number one answer was. We want you to guess what you think people spend on.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Tori Dunlap]

Divorce. Oh, my God.

[Ashley Hess]

Did anyone. I'm sure people. We got. I saw that one in there.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's in there.

[Ashley Hess]

I think people took it as more of a table. Tangible.

[Raina Greenberg]

Item. Item.

[Tori Dunlap]

Because when I ask it, they. I think they know. And so it's usually like. It's divor. It's like something that made their life concretely better.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, it's.

[Tori Dunlap]

I guess. Is this a material Thing.

[Raina Greenberg]

A lot of them. A lot of them were material.

[Ashley Hess]

Some people said divorce. Some people did.

[Tori Dunlap]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

Some people said like therapy. A lot.

[Ashley Hess]

A lot.

[Tori Dunlap]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But again, this is what we're talking about of like, ways to like, concretely make your life better. It's like, yeah, cool. You get to get divorced. You get to go to therapy. I would say like arrows tour tickets or something that was in there. Okay, what is the number one thing?

[Raina Greenberg]

Wait, did you see that? Now people are being required. The profits they made from the ERAs tour. They have to like, file something about it. This is unprecedented. No one's ever done this before.

[Tori Dunlap]

This is why. Because it's who making it.

[Raina Greenberg]

So, like, I flipped tickets for the era.

[Tori Dunlap]

Oh, like income?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, like income.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean, it's income.

[Raina Greenberg]

If you made over $2,000 or 2500 from flipping Aristor tickets, you have to file that.

[Ashley Hess]

But that's income. I mean, I get it. That's income.

[Tori Dunlap]

Wow. Okay. Okay, what's the number one thing? Aura rack.

[Ashley Hess]

The aura rack. Yeah. Yeah. And you're wearing one.

[Tori Dunlap]

Not sponsored, but here you go. Aura. Here's free marketing here.

[Raina Greenberg]

Just like therapy. That is something that people die.

[Tori Dunlap]

That's the number one thing. I would not have been able to.

[Raina Greenberg]

Guess over and over and over again. There were a lot therapists.

[Tori Dunlap]

See, I think they're taking it from the material. Again, my audience is like the ability to fly across country when my dad was sick, right?

[Ashley Hess]

Like, yeah, people took it as the thing. I thought everybody was going to say. Vibrator, gym membership, fitness stuff, class pass. Robot, vacuum, dust.

[Tori Dunlap]

We're talking about health, right? Health is wealth, baby.

[Ashley Hess]

So, yeah, your stuff dog just like.

[Raina Greenberg]

To be like, happy.

[Tori Dunlap]

Your dog makes you happy.

[Ashley Hess]

Pro tubing, mascara, Taylor Swift tickets, cheese. A house cleaner. That I mean, and I say this with couples.

[Tori Dunlap]

You buy your time back.

[Raina Greenberg]

I could spend an hour talking to you about just like offloading all that.

[Ashley Hess]

Stuff and paying for that and couples. If you're arguing about cleaning and you can afford it, just take the argument off the table instead of going to.

[Raina Greenberg]

Get how much cheaper?

[Tori Dunlap]

And again, the vast majority of people, People probably are listening and you're like, I can't afford a house cleaner. Okay, no worries. Then how do we make enough money.

[Ashley Hess]

To be able to do that?

[Tori Dunlap]

Right? Like, start asking yourself the million dollar questions as opposed to going, oh, that's never going to be me. How do you make that be you?

[Ashley Hess]

All right, we could end it on that then.

[Tori Dunlap]

Cool.

[Ashley Hess]

I love it.

[Raina Greenberg]

Thank you.

[Ashley Hess]

So much more money.

[Raina Greenberg]

Tori, you're amazing. I know that people are going to want to find you, listen, read, so tell everybody, website, podcast, everything. And of course this will always be in the description as well.

[Tori Dunlap]

My podcast and book are called Financial Feminine Feminist and my company is called her first 100k. I am her first 100k.com and her first 100k on all the socials. Instagram is my favorite place to hang out. So come say hi.

[Ashley Hess]

Love it. You guys know where to find us. Girls gotta eat.com we are girls Gotta Eat podcast on Instagram and tick tock. I'm Ash hess. Raina is raina.greenberg. get those vibrators. It'll change your [e-mail] and subscribe on YouTube and we will see you Thursday.

[Raina Greenberg]

Have a good week guys.

[Ashley Hess]

Bye.