How to Talk to Your Partner and Improve Your Sex Life feat. Vanessa Marin (Rerelease)

Summary

Girls Gotta Eat: “How to Talk to Your Partner and Improve Your Sex Life” feat. Vanessa Marin (Rerelease)

Podcast: Girls Gotta Eat (Dear Media)
Hosts: Ashley Hesseltine, Raina Greenberg
Guest: Vanessa Marin, licensed sex therapist
Date: May 25, 2026
Duration covered: ~00:00–1:05:00 (Excluding intros, ads, and outros)

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Episode Overview

This engaging and comedic episode tackles the realities of sexual communication and the pursuit of a better sex life in long-term relationships. Hosts Ashley and Raina welcome Vanessa Marin—a celebrated sex therapist with 20 years of experience—to share actionable advice on reigniting intimacy, making sexual requests, setting boundaries, and having sometimes-tricky conversations about sex. The conversation combines practical sex tips, hilarious personal anecdotes, and honest vulnerability to empower listeners to talk about (and enhance) their sex lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Communication Is the Core—But It’s Tricky

• Advice to “just talk about it” is everywhere, but HOW do you actually start?
  • Most couples avoid real conversations about sex, waiting until anger or resentment boils over. This makes those first conversations combative.
  • Vanessa underscores that starting with small, positive, and non-threatening discussions about sex can transform the dynamic.
• Get comfortable with the topic itself:
  • Start with sharing compliments or recalling positive sexual memories. (“Remember that time we…”)
  • This builds positive associations and makes deeper conversations less intimidating.
    Timestamp: [19:10]

2. Vanessa’s Personal Story: Even Sex Therapists Struggle

• Vanessa reveals she and her now-husband Xander hit a sexual slump early on (“life got busy, we weren’t prioritizing it, had boring, disconnected sex, and had no communication skills for working through it”—[11:49]).
• They ended up in therapy, which was awkward and hard at first but ultimately broke patterns and rebuilt their sexual and emotional connection.
• “There’s nothing unusual about this story. I feel like everyone has some version of: things were hot and heavy, and then life catches up.” – Vanessa [10:39]

3. Why “Effortless Sex” Is a Myth

• Many feel grief or anxiety when sex no longer feels effortless.
• Vanessa names the “f*cking fairy tale”—the myth that good sex just happens, as shown in movies and porn, without effort or conversation.
  Timestamp: [14:48]
• “It’s a sense of loss… It used to feel so effortless, and now it feels like work. But the joy is in creating ways the work can be fun.” – Vanessa [15:48]

4. Practical Steps to Better Sex Communication

• Start Easy:
  • Share compliments or sexual memories, daily or every other day, to create a baseline of positivity ([19:10]-[20:16]).
  • “I love the way you kiss me” or “I was thinking of that time you…” > Normalizes sex talk, reduces awkwardness.
• When You’re Ready:
  • Shift into positive requests: “I love when we go slow. Can we do that next time?”
  • Focus on what you want, not only complaints ([21:15]-[22:00]).

5. The Details of Desire: It’s NOT Mostly About Intercourse

• Ashley highlights Vanessa’s stat: “91% of women who have sex with men say intercourse is NOT their favorite part of sex.” ([22:13])
• Women often crave everything except penetration—the build-up, foreplay (though Vanessa hates the term), kissing, touching, and emotional connection.
• “Our bodies are not really wired to feel a lot of sensation or have orgasms from penetration alone… women feel like something is wrong with them, but this is normal!” – Vanessa [22:54]

6. Quality Over Quantity

• Sexual ruts often come from monotonous, predictable sex (“the same menu every time”) rather than a true lack of libido.
  • “Is what you’re having worth craving?” – Vanessa [26:25]
• Spice and novelty matter; discuss what you both enjoy, break routines intentionally.

7. How to Redirect in the Bedroom—Requests, Boundaries, and Feedback

• Three scenarios:
  1. Sexual Perfectionism: Not every second must be perfect, sometimes just wait things out.
  2. Boundaries/Safety: If in pain or not okay, “That’s not on the menu tonight/I need to stop” is necessary—immediate, clear ([32:26]).
  3. The Gray Zone: Use positive, specific requests, not complaints. (“Oh, that softer pressure you used a minute ago, can you go back to that?”) ([35:03])
• “We can’t expect our partners to be mind readers.” – Vanessa [34:00]

8. Tough Requests—When You Don’t Like What They Like

• Example: If you really don’t like something (e.g., fingers in the butt), it’s fine to draw boundaries kindly and firmly.
  • But, can sometimes creatively find compromises—e.g., touch rather than penetration, or “rimming” (just playing around the area). ([35:32]-[37:06])

9. Teaching Technique Without Killing the Mood

• Try the “Eye Exam” technique: “Do you like this or this?” to compare strokes, pressure, or speed, rather than offering negative feedback ([39:05]).
• Use foreplay guides together to level the playing field; it feels like learning, not criticizing.
• For common issues: guys thinking penetration or “fingering” is the main event—give positive requests or gently guide hands to show what feels good.

10. Oral Sex: Requests, Myths, and Mis-Cues

• If he never goes down on you, make a playful, direct request: “I had a dream about you going down on me and can't stop thinking about it—will you do that?” ([43:33])
• Many men are “just doing what the last girlfriend wanted.” Talk about past experiences/misconceptions together.
  • “Women’s bodies are different—just because you blew one woman's mind doesn’t mean you will with the next.” ([46:22])
• It’s hot and empowering to ask for what you want sexually.

11. Energy, Enthusiasm, and “The Why” of Technique

• “The ENERGY behind the act is as important as the technique. If you can tell your partner isn’t present or enthusiastic, even ‘perfect’ sex can feel flat.” – Vanessa [57:55]
• Choose five words that describe the vibes you want in sex—e.g., curiosity, exploration, romance, enthusiasm ([57:56]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the “Fairytale” myth:
  “Sex always seems completely effortless. When it gets trickier, it feels scary—like, maybe this isn't my person. But that's just not true.” – Vanessa [14:48]

• On being positive:
  “You're always going to get better results... when you frame it positively than if you make a negative complaint. That's true inside the bedroom and in life.” – Vanessa [35:13]

• On interference from prior partners:
  “People are just a product of the people they've slept with before.” – Raina [45:51]

• On feedback:
  “It’s very sexy to tell your partner what you want... we’re all desperate for more feedback in the bedroom.” – Vanessa [46:38]

• On hand jobs and ‘sad spanks’:
  “A lot of women are doing, like, the sad spank equivalent of a hand job—just barely touching. We got to squeeze it like you mean it!” – Vanessa [56:09]

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Practical “How-To” Sex Tips

Choking ([49:46]-[52:44])

• Start slow—don’t squeeze the windpipe; only gentle pressure on the sides of the neck.
• Caress up the neck first to feel out your partner’s response.
• Consent and communication are key before any choking play.
• “You can underestimate how gently you can go and still make an impact.” – Vanessa

Spanking ([53:21]-[57:08])

• Go harder than a soft tap—no one wants a “sad spank.” Find the right level together (!) outside the bedroom first.
• Use your hand to find the meatiest part of the butt before spanking.
• Avoid cracks/hips; focus on the “sweet spot.”
• Enthusiasm and intention matter as much as technique.

“Eye Exam” Technique for Oral/Manual ([39:05])

• Compare two options: “Do you like it better when I do this, or this?” Makes feedback feel less critical, more playful.

“Let Me Focus On You” (For In-the-Moment Reset) ([37:06])

• If you need to quickly redirect, take the lead: “Hold up, let me focus on you for a second.”

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Unique Insights & Humor

• The “quota” game: Are you “more Ashley” or “more Raina” based on your approach to sex in the car vs. avoiding tickets? [06:07]
• The butt play compromise: “Maybe they can just be butthole adjacent…” – Ashley [36:50]
• On energy: “If someone calls me a slut and they don't mean it, I can tell!” – Ashley [55:02]
• On hand jobs: “Hand jobs are one of the most underrated sex acts.” – Vanessa [61:23]

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Important Timestamps

• [08:15] Vanessa introduces herself, her work, and how she met her husband Xander.
• [10:39] Personal story about sexual ruts and therapy.
• [14:48] The “f*cking fairy tale” myth of sex.
• [19:10] How to start talking about sex: compliments, positive memories.
• [22:13] The statistics and reality of women’s pleasurable experiences.
• [32:26] Addressing pain, setting boundaries immediately, sexual safety.
• [35:03] Making positive, in-the-moment requests.
• [39:05] The “eye exam” technique for better feedback about oral/hand technique.
• [49:46] How to ease into choking safely (with consent).
• [53:21] All about spanking: pressure, technique, enthusiasm.
• [56:09] The “sad spank” and “sad hand job” metaphors—and how to do better.
• [57:56] The importance of sexual energy/enthusiasm.
• [61:00] Why hand jobs (and 69 on your side) can be better than you think.

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Takeaways & Resources

• Sex, like the rest of a relationship, is work—but it can and should be joyful!
• Start conversations about sex slowly and positively; don’t wait for problems.
• Most women do NOT find penetration alone pleasurable—emotional connection and “everything else” matter more.
• Giving (and receiving) feedback is not only necessary, but sexy and fun with the right approach.
• Try new things outside the heat of the moment to learn preferences (“practice spanking” or “hand job squeeze test” outside the bedroom).
• “Be curious!” is a great mindset for trying new things or asking for more.

Vanessa’s Resources

• Instagram: @vanessaandxander
• Website: vmtherapy.com (guides and courses)
• Book: Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life
• Podcast: Pillow Talks

“We think everybody is deserving of hot sex and deep love. Inclusivity is very important to us.” – Vanessa [64:16]

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For more: Watch full video on Spotify and YouTube.
Share this episode with a friend!

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(End of Summary)

Transcript

[Vanessa Marin]

Choking. A lot of people underestimate, like how gently you can do it with spanking. A lot of people think that you should go soft.

[Ashley Hess]

No, we know also we people. I can't tell you. Many times I have been softly spanked and it really gives me the ick.

[Raina Greenberg]

This podcast is a dear media production.

[Ashley Hess]

Hi guys.

[Raina Greenberg]

Hi guys.

[Ashley Hess]

Welcome back to a re release of

[Raina Greenberg]

Girls Got to eat. But fresh intro. Yeah, just lock in for these hot, fresh two minutes. Hot and fresh.

[Ashley Hess]

I hope you guys are having fun.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, not the best weather on the east coast, supposedly.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm glad for the break.

[Raina Greenberg]

So as this airs, I'm probably on a flight. I was taking a 6am flight from Boston.

[Ashley Hess]

What are you saying to me? Why?

[Raina Greenberg]

I just wanted to get home. I've been gone for two and a half weeks at this point. And that was the affordable Delta one option. And I'm back, baby.

[Ashley Hess]

We're back in Delta one.

[Raina Greenberg]

I've been in Delta one in so

[Ashley Hess]

long, I don't even know what it's like.

[Raina Greenberg]

Prices are like astronomical. So I saw one that was relatively affordable. I was like, I'll get up at 4am to get right back into bed.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't sit in that part of the plane anymore. I'm in the back where the short people are. I rode back. I allowed myself one nice flight this whole tour. Cause I was just like, it's too much. It's too much like flying and spending money, whatever. I allowed myself one nice flight. I missed that flight because this horrible TSA agent that was terrorizing me and I had to fly home. Row 37, middle seat, last row on the plane next to the bathroom. No, no recline.

[Raina Greenberg]

Being in the bathroom with no recline is so insane and it's so shitty. No pun intended. Cause like there isn't anybody behind you. Well, they're on the toilet, I guess. But it's just like. Then it doesn't recline. On top of it.

[Ashley Hess]

The guy next to me, there was no perfume left at the airport. Cause he was wearing all of it. And I just, I was like, how did this to me?

[Raina Greenberg]

That should be illegal.

[Ashley Hess]

That TSA agents threw out all my skin suitables. I was crying at the airport.

[Raina Greenberg]

Is finally ready to break. To break her silence on this. Raina, when you left me that crying voice note about this, I was like, somebody has died.

[Ashley Hess]

You know when you call a friend and you have to say like three times like, I'm okay, I'm okay. But like, I tried to leave you a voice note three times and I was gulping through crying. I was so upset. Like, this guy was so mean to me. I was so shaken, I.

[Raina Greenberg]

For no reason, I lost all that skin that wasn't over 3 ounces. Like, he just decided to terrorize you.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, it was crazy.

[Raina Greenberg]

I told that story to Shashank. There was more to it than just throwing out her products. Everybody. It was just. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was just weirdly targeted and on you and said mean things to you publicly. Whatever. I told Shashank I thought I was going to cry. He was just like, I don't like her travel. I'm going to get emotionally. He was like, I don't like her traveling alone. Like, if one of us would. If one of us. One of us dudes would have been there. No, but he was like, I wish I would have been there, but what are you gonna do, fight a TSA agent?

[Ashley Hess]

I said that to a guy friend of mine, though. I was like, I'll give you a 30 second. I went through. They said that I had my bag of purse was too heavy. And I was like, it's not a thing. And he opened it up, and all my stuff spilled out. My underwear was all over the table. And I was like, hey, man, this is kind of humiliating. Like, can we not? And he was just like, oh, humiliating. You're humiliated. We're gonna humiliate you now. And it just went on for a long time. And I did feel, like, really, like, if I was with a man, this would not have happened. It makes you feel, like, very alone in the world.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

And, like, Brittany had flown home, like, an hour prior to me, and she was like, do you want to just come to the airport with me? And I was like, I don't want to get up. So you go. And she went without me. And I could have been with somebody.

[Raina Greenberg]

Ugh.

[Ashley Hess]

It was so sad. It is one of those moments. I very rarely feel this in my life, where you're like, I am alone.

[Raina Greenberg]

I know. But, like, unless that guy clocked you as being alone and honed in on you, which. Who's to say whether he did or not? But otherwise, it's hard to really jump in. Like, I don't know, what would I have done? And then we both would have gotten taken away, just detained, you know, I

[Ashley Hess]

was like, you are going to talk to my friend. And she's taller than me.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm probably taller than him.

[Ashley Hess]

I think that people like that. That just get their kicks from, like, embarrassing and terrorizing somebody, like, probably Just would do it in front of a man. Like, I don't think it has anything to do with a man, like fighting him. I just don't think he would have felt empowered.

[Raina Greenberg]

But who's to say you're separated? You get like Nikki Glaser, she says when you go to the nail salon, you get separated at the border. I mean, you get separated from the belt. You might be over here, he might be over there. Like, you do kind of get separated at the border when you go through.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay. But that one term member in Deb, Denver, Andrew Collin and I traveled home together and I did have too much liquid in my bag. Just too many bottles. And they were pretty nice to me about it. I was with Andrew.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. So intimidating.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Because he's so mean and big. But anyways, if you guys work for skinceuticals and you want to send me some and also to Ashley, you know what?

[Raina Greenberg]

I get it.

[Ashley Hess]

She gets also. But I'm good. Do you like skinceuticals?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I mean, I just. I got my. I got my.

[Ashley Hess]

You got your. You got your shit.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. Anyway, guys, so we had this great episode today. So this was the very first time we had Vanessa Marin on. It's such a good episode about improving your sex life and being in a sexual slump. Verina, this was the one where she talks about spanking and choking. And I was just kind of reviewing it and I. I'm looking at it. I was saying how, like when you smack one ass cheek, you gotta smack the other because they feel imbalanced. Like, I kind of forget stuff we said four years ago. This was in New York in our old studio. So you can, you know, debate whether or not we've glowed up or not. But take a look and so you can watch full video on Spotify and YouTube and just enjoy. I think this is like, really great. We've done two episodes with her. Both of them are phenomenal and really popular and have been shared so much because there's just so much amazing advice. So, you know, take a listen and revisit it if you have. If you haven't listened to it in a few years and improve your sex life this Memorial Day.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Have sex today. Yeah. Let us know if this has improved your sex life this week.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

This is about also how to talk to your partner about doing stuff and doing stuff. We encourage you to just, you know, maybe have sex in the car on the way home today.

[Raina Greenberg]

In the car.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. You know, maybe blowjob.

[Raina Greenberg]

You guys be safe out there. There's a lot of cops out on Memorial Day weekend. Also true.

[Ashley Hess]

Don't get arrested.

[Raina Greenberg]

There always are cops out because, like, close to the end of the month or trying to that quota, it's a holiday weekend. So if you're more rain his friend or more Ashley's friend, if you're. If you're trying to suck a dick in traffic, you're wearing his friend. If you're trying to not get a ticket because you've had too many, you're more focused on.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I'm not in my quota yet. Okay, well, you guys enjoy the episode. We hope you had a great weekend. We will see you on Thursday for the snack.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes. Let's get into it.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay, guys. We are really excited to welcome our guest today. She is a licensed psychotherapist with 20 years of experience in the sex therapy field. You don't look old enough to have 20 years experience. We'll get back to it. She's been featured in hundreds of articles in places like Harper's Bazaar, Allure, Oprah magazine, and the New York Times. Her weekly podcast, pillow talks, covers all things sex and intimacy. And you can pick up her book in early, early 2023. Sex talks, the five conversations that will transform your love life. Please welcome to the show, Vanessa Moran.

[Vanessa Marin]

Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[Raina Greenberg]

We're so excited to have you. We just found out that you have two pugs. I do a black and a tan, and it takes me back. It's Raina's. The only type of dog she likes is a pair of pugs that are different colors.

[Ashley Hess]

That's really. They cuddle and it's so adorable.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, when you guys come out to the west coast, you come meet them.

[Raina Greenberg]

We absolutely will.

[Vanessa Marin]

They're definitely the most interesting thing about me.

[Ashley Hess]

And we also learned that your husband had two last names and you have obviously last name, like everybody. And you picked between the three and you both changed the last names. I love everything about you guys.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I didn't want to just have to default change my name because I'm the woman. And so he had that hyphenated name. We said, okay, we have three options. Let's pick. And I thought Marin was the prettiest.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. And you let us know that it's a lot harder for a man to change his last name in general. So anybody that's listening, make your man

[Ashley Hess]

do that if you want to make his life harder.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, we fully support.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, we found you because actually we were looking for people to do some sex and entities videos for the app and we had a couple listeners who suggested you and your husband who do a podcast together. So I would just love to hear a little bit more about you, introduce yourself to the listeners, who you are, what you do.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, yeah. So my name is Vanessa. I'm a sex therapist. I have a business together with my husband Xander. And we really focus on helping couples keep the spark alive in long term relationships. So we've got, yeah, all sorts of stuff. We're on Instagram, we have the podcast, we're writing the book. We are just really passionate about this topic. Like, you guys know, like, you're like, what do you want to talk about? I'm like, here's a list of a hundred things that I would be so stoked to talk about. So I just love doing this work and I'm really glad to be here.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm curious. We want to hear the story about you and your husband too, and you share this in the book. And I think it's probably a lot of people's story too, that people will be able to relate to. But I'm also just curious about you working together and like living together. Being together, like live, work and play together, It's a lot.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, you guys know, it's a lot.

[Ashley Hess]

We don't want to sleep together.

[Vanessa Marin]

We have like a friendship and working together, the business and you know, it's like a lot of stuff. But yeah, I mean, it is a lot. But, you know, we love spending time together. I think that's really what makes it work. And we have really good communication as well, so that's made it work. But we kind of fell into this. He was working for Google. He had like a long career in tech and hr. And we ended up moving. We were in San Francisco at the time. We moved to Berlin. And he just wanted to take some time off and kind of figure out what his next move was. And I just asked him to help me put together an Excel spreadsheet for tracking some things and that was sort of how he fell into helping out with the business. So he was doing all the behind the scenes stuff for a couple of years and I kept bugging him saying, you know, we're a real couple and we go through real struggles of our own. Like, I think we should talk about this together because it's one thing for me as a professional to be like, talking to people. I think sometimes it's easy for people to say like, well, yeah, you're a Sex therapist. You have all this training, of course that's easy for you, but I just thought there's something really valuable about being able to share as a real couple. So it took me a few years to convince them to, like, come in front of the camera and do the podcast with me. But now we get really great feedback from people saying, like, I appreciate your vulnerability. And it just normalizes all these things that all couples go through. It makes me feel like I'm not alone. And it just opens up the conversation between partners easier, too, when they see, like, another couple talking about it.

[Raina Greenberg]

Absolutely. I love that.

[Ashley Hess]

So you guys were in a place where you were dating, you were not married yet. Right. And your sex life just, like, took a steep dive off a cliff and you went to therapy about it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yes.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yes. You know, I tell the story in the book, and I'm like, there's nothing very unusual about this story. I feel like everyone in a relationship has some version of, like, things were hot and heavy, and then life kind of catches up to you. And so we just got into this phase of we were both working really late. We had a lot of responsibilities. We weren't making time for each other, and we were having very little sex. And when we did have sex, it was very boring. It was kind of predictable. It wasn't very pleasurable. It just felt kind of icky and disconnected. And we had never had to talk about sex before because things were so great.

[Raina Greenberg]

So they were, like, hot and heavy at the beginning.

[Vanessa Marin]

And I think it gave that impression of, like, oh, it's so good, we don't even have to talk about it. And I think that's a lot of us are going for in relationships. Like, we think that if I don't have to say anything, this is a good sign. And so we got into that tough point in our relationship and realized we had no skills or techniques to draw upon because we'd never talked about it before. So all those initial conversations that we had just immediately went into fights. Like, you never initiate. Well, you don't seem to care about me having an orgasm because we just didn't have any communication foundation to fall back on.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm so intrigued by it. I mean, not intrigued. Cause it's just so normal. I just feel like people are listening. Like, same.

[Ashley Hess]

That's me.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, Right. So what'd you do? I dragged his ass to therapy. I was like, you know, this is a deal breaker for me. Like, we are not resolving this. So he very begrudgingly went to therapy. I mean, he was not into it. And I start off the book talking about that first session of just even sitting in that therapist's office, realizing I don't even know what to say. Like, I don't know how to describe this. I don't even fully know what I want. I just want not this. So it was really hard to just, like, figure out where to go from there.

[Ashley Hess]

We have done some really great episodes with Ian Kerner and Emily Morris and everybody. Every time we poll people, what do you want to hear from a sex therapist? They say, I have either a mismatched libido with my partner, or we used to have this hot and heavy sex life, and we just don't anymore. And I don't know how to approach it. I think the advice so much, not from those people or you, but the advice in general is like, we'll just talk about it. And it's like, But I don't know how to talk about it. I don't. Is scheduling sex weird? Is it weird if I'm just like. Like, let's throw on a porn. We've never watched a porn before. A lot of these things aren't actionable. They're just like, just talk about it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. I mean, the idea of, like, we need to talk about it, Everybody knows that already. There's nothing new about that. But what really bothered me and what drove me to write the book, we actually wrote it together, was that there's so few pieces of advice about, like, well, what do I say? How do I say it? When do I say it? And so I really love getting very nitty gritty and practical with people. I think, like, that's. That's the most important thing. Because if you give that generic advice, it just makes people feel even shittier. They're like, oh, all I'm supposed to do is, like, just talk about it, or, like, just relax and stop thinking about it. So I really wanted to give people much more actionable, like, specific things to do. So that's why the book is really full of specific conversations to have and conversation prompts and examples of how to say things.

[Raina Greenberg]

So what would you say, if you don't mind, like, sharing a little bit more? Was there one underlying issue? Was it just that, like, life got in the way and then you didn't have the tools to figure out or, like, what helped? Like, is there a way to just give the short answer here? I mean, I know we know it's all in the book, but.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, I mean, there really wasn't anything in particular that was going on.

[Ashley Hess]

Cutie.

[Vanessa Marin]

My sneakers smell really good.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, he must smell the dogs. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Hi, Azul. Yeah, there wasn't anything specific that was coming up. It really was just a classic case of, like, life got busy, we weren't prioritizing it. We didn't know what to do. And so I think that really is the case for the majority of people. It's like, there's not one thing that goes horribly wrong. It's just kind of like a cascade of tiny little things that start to snowball and really become a big problem.

[Ashley Hess]

How many years into the relationship did you go to therapy for this?

[Vanessa Marin]

We went for a couple of months.

[Ashley Hess]

How long have you been together?

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, we had been together for about two years at that point.

[Ashley Hess]

Because I think some people are like.

[Raina Greenberg]

Two years?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I think some people are like, well, is this weird that I even think about this after two years? But I'm sure a lot of people hit that mark. I have after two years, like, I don't. I just don't fucking use. Not that fun anymore, you know, I

[Vanessa Marin]

think we've all experienced that and it's this sense of grief. Almost like what happened to us. It was so great at the beginning. Like, the chemistry seemed good. I do want to say, like, some people don't have that hot and heavy stage, and that's normal and that's okay, too. But I think for so many of us who do, it's. Yeah, the sense of loss. It's a confusion. Like, what happened. And it used to feel so effortless, and now it feels like it takes so much work. And I think that's another thing that scares us too. Like in the book, I call it the fucking fairy tale that this is what we see of sex in TV movies, porn. Like, sex always seems completely effortless. It just happens. It's spontaneous. Nobody's ever talking about it. And so we all crave that feeling of effortlessness. And when it starts to get trickier in our relationships, it starts to feel really scary. Of like, well, this isn't what it's supposed to be and this can't be. Like, this maybe isn't my person. So I think a lot of us end up ending relationships at that time, too. I mean, I definitely thought about it at the time.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. Is it in a place now where obviously relationships are work forever, but did you feel like it was just a lot of work during those few months and now it is a little bit easier? Or do you feel like it's a constant? We need to communicate, see where we're at check in. Or has it gotten back to a place where it does feel a little more natural, less work has to be put into it?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. I'm laughing because I. It's making me remember this meme that I saw last week. It was. I'm not even sure who it was, but it was like, a couple of lesbians. And they're like, heterosexual people are always talking about, like, relationships are so much work, totally mocking us. So, yeah, I mean, I do think they're like, you signed up for this, Richard. Like, the difference that we came across is, like, how do we find ways of working on it that, like, can feel fun? So it doesn't need to feel like, this big heavy, like, okay, let's go work on our relationship again. But, like, what are simple things that we can do, like, every day that take very little effort, very little time, but it keeps that thread going between us so that it doesn't feel like it's always this heavy?

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, well, and it's sex, so it should be like, the reward is great. You know, it's not that. Like, you sit down and work out your finances, like, you're working out yourself.

[Ashley Hess]

The reward is right, you guys. Orgasm.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

So let me ask you. So, you know, for couples that are, I would say, like, quote unquote, just ordinary, like, there isn't a parent hasn't died. There is an extreme panic over, like, money or job security if it's just day to day. Like, I'm just a little tired of this or a little bored of this. Like, where do you start the conversation? Because I want to say that, like, I understand that certain real traumas in your life and stress make you, of course, not want to have sex. And that's a different conversation.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let me start off by telling you guys what typically happens so people don't have these experiences talking about sex in relationships. We wait until things get really bad, and it gets to the point where we've got all this anger, resentment, frustration, confusion, fear boiling over, and we end up doing exactly what Xander and I are doing is, like, the first conversation is a massive fight, right? And of course, that only reinforces, like, ooh, sex is a bad thing to talk about. Because if we have to talk about it, it's bad. We're gonna get in a fight. Things are not going well. So instead, my recommendation, which is the first conversation in the book, is to start with just the acknowledgement that you guys are having sex. Like, it is wild how few couples have been Together years, even decades, and never really had an honest conversation about their sex life. Like, we just do not talk about it. So for so many couples, it's literally just gotta start with having that topic be a more comfortable, like, part of your conversation. So that's some of the feedback that we've gotten about our Instagram account, because we show up in stories together every day, and people say, like, you know, it actually really helped us just to start talking about sex in a more general sense rather than starting to talk about our sex life specifically. So having those conversations where you're not trying to solve anything, you're not making any requests, you're not giving any complaints, you're literally just talking about sex and getting comfortable with it as a topic of conversations, that. That's the best starting point.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, what is talking about sex?

[Ashley Hess]

I can't not talk about sex, so I can't really.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, like, what.

[Ashley Hess]

What are we talking about?

[Vanessa Marin]

I know for. You guys are not going to relate with this conversation. You're like, I've had this for a living.

[Ashley Hess]

I've had these problems in my life. Of course.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so my favorite starting point is literally just with compliments. So I lay out in that first chapter to bring up, just randomly out of the blue, like, one of your favorite sexual memories with your partner. So, like, give them a compliment. Say, like, you know, what just randomly popped into my head the other day, or, you know, what I had a dream about last. Last night, that time that we, you know. And so you're recalling a memory. You're reminding each other. Like, hey, we have.

[Raina Greenberg]

Remember we had a really great sex.

[Vanessa Marin]

Remember, we do it and we can be good at it.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

That's a perfect positive memory. You know, it's gonna create, like, a positive experience, and then. So keep that going for, like, every day, every other day for, like, a week or two weeks where you're just giving your partner a compliment. Like, you look so good today. It doesn't have to even be explicitly sexual. You look really good today. I was thinking of that time that you did this to me. I love the way you kiss me, the way you hold me. So you're just, like, laying that groundwork. And again, it's not any sort of like, don't do that, or, I need you to do this. It's like, just putting the conversation on

[Raina Greenberg]

the table, and hopefully they're receptive.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

If someone's like, nice, they might say,

[Vanessa Marin]

like, you know, like, wait, why are you bringing that up? And that's fine. Like, the point Is not that you're, like, trying to catch them off guard and they don't realize what they're talking about, but you can just say something like, it just popped into my head and it was a fun memory, and I figured I'd share it with you.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, and we always say things like that. You can fib a little. You can say a dream, and you can say like, I walked by that movie theater today where I blew you. The fact that you could just. Sure. Something that reminds you, you know, so and so called. And it reminded me of the time at their wedding when we, you know, had that hot sex or this hotel or vacation or anything like that.

[Vanessa Marin]

You just want to create this positive association. When we start talking about sex, it's a good thing. I feel good. I'm getting compliments. I'm remembering. Good memor that we shared. Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay. And then if they're not picking up what you're putting down, if you're like, this is a little more broken than

[Raina Greenberg]

I thought it was.

[Ashley Hess]

What's the next step?

[Raina Greenberg]

Or what's the next step in general? If it's going well.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

When do you start to repair? Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, it's really going to be dependent on where each couple is like, are they even in a place where they're like, there's something going on that I don't want to be doing? Or, you know, I think in general, it can be a lot better to start with making, like, positive requests rather than immediately going into the complaints. And we can get into the nuance of. Some complaints are more urgent than others, and we can get into those first. But I think going into making any sort of positive requests of I really love when we go so slow. This is one of the biggest complaints I hear from women is we just jump right into the intercourse. And there's very little in it for me. So making a request in a positive way of, like, I love when we go so slow. Can we do that next time? Something like that.

[Ashley Hess]

You told me something on the phone that I want to validate. You said that, like, some women are like, I don't like that. We just jump into it. You said that you polled people and that what 90% of women said their favorite part of sex is not the penetrative part of it. It's like everything else.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. 91% of women, we said, like, is intercourse like, your favorite activity that you guys do together? Of women who have sex with men and 91% of them said, no, there's something else that I prefer and this is. I mean, it's so important to recognize, like, our bodies are not really wired to feel a lot of sens or to have orgasms from penetration alone. But it's something that most women don't know. And so they feel like something is horribly wrong, horribly broken with them and they're having sex. It feels like there's nothing in it for me. I'm not enjoying it. It's just kind of. I'm laying there staring at the ceiling while my partner is jackhammering away. And, like, what's wrong with me that I don't love this?

[Raina Greenberg]

It's very funny because I'm thinking of some men learning this stat and being like, what?

[Vanessa Marin]

I have a lot of heartbroken.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes.

[Ashley Hess]

Like.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, I'm thinking of if you pulled 100 men, and they'd be like, what do you think the best part of the sexual experience is for you and your partner? He'd be like, when I'm fucking her, when my dick's inside of her. And women are like, no, honey, no, sweetie, no Richard. Sorry, Charles. It is so true, though. I mean, even what we do with our erotic app, we have these erotic audio stories. And if they're 10 minutes, two minutes of the story is that, you know, so much of it is, like, the buildup and the foreplay and all those types of things.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, absolutely. And so that's not to say that intercourse can't be pleasurable or feel very intimate and, you know, enjoyable. But I think it's so important for us to recognize it's just not how women's bodies are really wired to work. And the foreplay, what we. I actually hate the word foreplay. Cause I think it implies, like, these are the things we do beforehand. Like, intercourse is the main thing. And we just do, like, the quick little foreplay beforehand. But I know everybody uses that word so well.

[Raina Greenberg]

Do you have another. Another word?

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't.

[Raina Greenberg]

I keep trying to think of.

[Vanessa Marin]

I'm like, other people use core play. And I'm like, okay, that's all right. But, yeah, sounds a little like a hardcore. It sounds more like a workout to me. I went to the core play class.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

I'm so sorbet.

[Raina Greenberg]

Solid core class.

[Vanessa Marin]

If anybody has a better name for it, let me know.

[Ashley Hess]

Can I ask a question? I want to know your answer. So when you masturbate, is it to thoughts of penetrative sex, or is it thoughts of, like, other stuff besides, like, Ashley, tell me you masturbate.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's. I mean, sometimes it's like, the full circle experience. But the way that I would start conjuring up a memory is not with being penetrated right away. It's like the pushing me up against a wall or something like that or something that like, got me in the mood.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh yeah, me too. So I'm like, that's how I feel. Like so much of my masturbation is like my head.

[Raina Greenberg]

The thoughts going through my head are not like, dick in vagina.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's swamming away.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, it took you 30 years.

[Ashley Hess]

You want to masturbate dick in vagina.

[Raina Greenberg]

I don't even want to put anything in my vag. I know even in my fantasies, you're just on my clit.

[Ashley Hess]

My porn was all clit. I only incorporated a penis into the porn I watch during the pandemic because I just missed it so much.

[Vanessa Marin]

And here's one of like the terrible things that happens in heterosexual sex too is like when we start having issues, a lot of guys think like, okay, you know, we're not having sex that often. Maybe she's turning me down a lot. So when you do get a yes, a lot of guys are like, well, let me get right to it before she changes her mind kind of thing. And so a lot of couples end up like just shortening that time of the buildup and it just goes straight to the intercourse, which just creates even more of this negative cycle of like, I'm not enjoying this sex that we're having, so why would I crave it? So we're going to have less of it. You know, it's just a really awful cycle.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, and if there's weird stuff going on in your relationship where there's tension or resentment, it makes you want to be so intimate even less. It almost forces you to have that mechanical, quick inner intercourse as opposed to like touching and feeling and all the romanticism. When you're kind of resentful of your partner as it stands in the first place, for sure.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's really easy to be like, just do your thing. Yeah, just get it over with type of thing.

[Ashley Hess]

Do you hear that a lot from couples that like, it becomes a little robotic after a certain amount of time. Like, I remember thinking of my longest term ex. It was like the same menu all the time. I would like wake up, I'd blow him. I'd get on top, he'd get on top, we'd both be done. I don't have to do it again for seven days.

[Vanessa Marin]

Exactly.

[Ashley Hess]

Thrilled.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. You can like script it out to the moment. Like, he's gonna touch my breast. And this way for like 10 seconds and then like, you know exactly what's coming. So of course, like, sex drive is one of the biggest complaints that people have. They're always like, I have no sex drive, what do I do? And the first question I ask people is, well, tell me about the quality of the sex that you're having. Is it something that's worth craving? And I think so few of us make that connection between our enjoyment of it and our desire for it. But for 95% of people, it's like, you describe to me what your sex life looks like. Okay. Makes perfect sense why you have zero desire for it. Why would you?

[Raina Greenberg]

Right? Yeah. So, I mean, again, we don't, we don't have like all day with you and people can read your book and they can also seek therapy themselves. But the book is about these conversations that you have about sex. Can we just discuss like another one that you really love?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. So the second one is, what do we need to feel connected? And I think this is another really important piece that gets left out of this conversation. Like, we talk about sex and we go immediately to thinking about the physical act of it. And I think a lot of people don't realize that, like, emotional intimacy and physical intimacy are so deeply intertwined. And so most couples these days, like, you're leading lives that are so busy and full. Like most couples will say, we just feel like ships passing in the night, like, or roommates more than lovers. And so it's so important to recognize, like, if you're feeling so disconnected from somebody all day long, it's like, I don't even know who you are anymore. You're just kind of of like here in my space. Why are you gonna feel the desire to be wildly intimate with them later that night? So that conversation's all about, like uncovering practical ways that you can still feel connected to your partner. So it feels like you're not starting from ice cold and trying to get yourself to boiling, but there's like a simmer going between the two of you.

[Raina Greenberg]

And can that be things that aren't sexual at all?

[Vanessa Marin]

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think that a lot of couples are just missing any sort of emotional intimacy, like little non sexual touches, compliments, like, you know, spending quality time together. A lot of like love languages type stuff can come up here. So that's a great one.

[Ashley Hess]

Compliments are such like a. I feel like I see so many couples that don't do that with each other. And the couples that I like the most, like, it's our friends, husbands that are like, my wife looks so hot. Look at the way she dresses. She's the fox. Like, I. I feel like I don't see that in so many couples. And when I do, it's like, so nice and refreshing.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm like, I don't care. You just have to tell me I'm funny.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, it's nice to, like, get a compliment personally. But I think there's also something special about the way your partner talks about you in front of other people. I mean, we can all, I'm sure, think of examples of couples where it's like, they're just ragging on each other the whole time. Or like, you know, complaining or ignoring each other. And then when you see somebody exactly like what you were saying, like, my wife is so fucking hot. You're like, oh, that's so cute.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, we love to hear what people say about us behind our backs. Like, nice stuff. Like, I feel like that's a turn on.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, huge turn on.

[Raina Greenberg]

Should we move on to how to tell someone what you don't like, what they're doing in the bedroom, how to redirect. And we want to discuss actual actionable language and things that you can do when you're like, stop doing that.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, why would you do that?

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so let me set a little groundwork here. So I like to divide these into three categories. So at one end of the spectrum, we have what I actually call, like, sexual perfectionism territory. And I'll get back to that in a sec. The other end of the spectrum is, like, actual boundary or safety issues. And then we've got this, like, delightful gray area in the middle where I think we'll spend most of our time. But so the sexual perfectionism thing is I've actually found that a lot of people, because of the fucking fairytale, we have this idea that every moment of sex should just be passionate and intense and feel so good. But the reality is, like, it's totally normal for your pleasure and your connection to kind of rise and fall throughout an interaction. Like, let's say, for example, if Xana is going down on me. And there's a moment where it's just like, it's not feeling as good. I'm not gonna jump in right in that moment and be like, stop doing that.

[Raina Greenberg]

Go back to this.

[Vanessa Marin]

Go do that instead. Like, that's gonna feel intimidating for me. Cause then I'm gonna feel like I'm having to correct him every two minutes. It's gonna feel shitty for him. Cause he feels like, he's getting jumped on. So instead, I think those can be good territory to just kind of like, wait it out for a minute. So not put this pressure that every single moment has to be wildly pleasurable. Cause you don't want that pressure for yourself either. I have to do to my partner that, like, the connection never wanes for a second. Right. So it's like, just wait it out in those kinds of situations. And just nine times out of 10, it's going to get better in that moment, you know, in the next couple of moments. So that's one category. And the one time out of 10, it'll go into the gray area. The other end of the spectrum is if something's happening, that's like a boundary or safety issue. So let's say it's something that you don't feel comfortable doing. It's causing you pain in the moment. Moment. Have you guys done a sexual pain episode?

[Ashley Hess]

No.

[Raina Greenberg]

No.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, my God. I have a. I have a good guest for you.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

30% of women were in pain the last time they had sex.

[Raina Greenberg]

Now, isn't that wild in different ways? Are we talking about just that they have, like, vaginal pain or something that their partner was doing was causing them pain? Or both or either.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, usually something their partner was doing. Like, it's typically with penetration.

[Ashley Hess]

But can that 30%, can that change? Because I. I feel like when I was a little younger, I used to be in pain a lot during sex. Not excruciating, but I don't feel like that anymore.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, it can change, but there are a lot of, like, sexual pain conditions. Okay. This is another thing that does not get talked about.

[Raina Greenberg]

We should definitely do an episode on this. And. And then also, of course, sometimes just high level, it's just. You need lube.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the quick solution fixes for it.

[Raina Greenberg]

But, yeah, it's not everybody's problem. But I mean, I've been in pain where I'm like, oh, I just need a great loop.

[Ashley Hess]

It was probably because I didn't like the sex I was having. Honestly. Probably part it of.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, yeah. There are a lot of potential causes for it, but I think as women, we are kind of taught to just, like, let it happen and just continue. A lot of us think that, like, pain just is a part of sex. That just is what it is. So I just like to be super clear of like, no, you should never be in pain, and you're gonna destroy your sex drive if you're having sex when you're in pain too. So if you're in pain, if somebody's crossing a boundary, doing something you don't wanna do, that's a moment where it's just like, you just have to speak up in that moment and say something like, I need to change something up. That's not on the menu for me tonight. That's not something that I feel interested in doing tonight. Something like that. But be really clear and directive, and it doesn't have to be a slap in the face, like, fuck you for doing that kind of thing. But just like, yeah, that's not really something that I'm open to doing tonight. Or I'd like to switch things up right now.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I need to take a break. I cannot do this.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. So that's that. And then we've got the gray zone, which is, you know, a lot of different stuff can come up in that category. So in general, the advice that I have when your partner's doing something that you're not loving is you're always going to get better results when you're making a request if you frame it positively than if you make a negative complaint. And that's true inside the bedroom and just generally in life. So try to figure out what is a way that you can give some positive feedback to your partner instead of making a complaint. If you're at the early stages of a relationship or you're just starting to have more communication about sex, give your partner a ton of compliments. Is where we, like, get back to the compliments thing. Like, a lot of times, if you're giving your partner enough good feedback, you might not get to a point where there even is something like, super negative that they're doing because you've given them feedback of like, I love when you go slow like that. I like it when you touch me. I prefer you going down on me versus fingering me. So that kind of stuff. But in the moment, we want to think about what's a way that I can kind of positively redirect somebody. And I will say people get a little bit resistant to that because we have that fucking fairytale in our head thinking, like, our partner's just supposed to know what to do. Just supposed to magically figure it out. And sometimes we feel like I don't even know what I want or what to ask for. But I do think it's really important for us to recognize that responsibility is on us to figure it out. We can't expect our partners to be mind readers, and we wouldn't want to be expected of that in reverse either. So really trying to think about, okay, how's a way that I can frame this so it might be something like, oh, that softer pressure that you were using a minute ago, like, that felt so good. Will you go back to doing that? Something like that. So you're giving them a compliment, but you're giving them a little bit of a direction with it as well.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay. So something. And we do want to. We want to give like, better techniques for doing some of these things. Something that I've struggled with with a couple guys is they want to stick a finger in my ass during sex.

[Vanessa Marin]

And I hate it.

[Ashley Hess]

Like, I really. It takes me out of the moment. I don't like it. But if that's going to like, really turn them on, I want to find ways that like, maybe I could find it more pleasurable, you know? Cause like, if that's really where you want to be with a finger in my butthole every time you're coming, fine. I can figure out how to enjoy this more. But like, all I've ever conjured is like, stop doing that. I hate that. Don't do that anymore.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, I mean, that sounds like it's a pretty strong feeling for you where you're just like, I don't like that. I don't want that to happen. So I can appreciate that you're wanting to be like a generous partner. You're like, okay, if this is something you're really into, let me see if I can find ways to enjoy it. So there could be a compromise. Like maybe there's something like your partner just touching your butthole instead of going into it. So that could be something. But if it's. If you're keep coming up against this, like, don't do that. I hate it. I don't like it. Like, I would say, don't force yourself to push your boundaries. Sounds like you have a pretty clear sense what you like or don't.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's. I guess, obviously that's a turn on for them, but like, it's probably more of what they think you want. Like what? Guys, like, really just love to stick a finger in the butt. Like, they probably just think that's what you want, or they think it's hot in some way, but they can definitely do without it. It's not like they, they're getting by their fingers. I'm just like, I feel like you can if they're also. I mean, I. I slept with a guy that was like such a butt guy that I was like, do you even know that I have tits, like, or do you know that I have anything else going on in my body besides my butt? Like, all he wanted to do was, like, be back there. Everything to do with it. So I feel like if it's that they. They could, like, spank you, they can, like, you know, be kind of in the crack a little bit. They can do more stuff with your butt than stick a finger in the hole.

[Ashley Hess]

I like the rimming idea, actually, because, like, still feel like they're, like, butthole adjacent. They're, like, around it, but I'm not having. Also, I have no problem telling somebody, don't fucking put your fingers there. I'll draw a boundary anytime I need to. But I was trying to compromise, and I feel like a little butthole play. I could get behind a little more.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. So if there's something that your partner's doing in the moment and you just cannot figure out a way to, like, how do I redirect? Or, like, change this into something positive, you can do the, like, hey, look over there. Technique that I like to call, just tell your partner, hold up, Let me focus on you for a second. Second. So you're changing things up. It's just, like, giving you the opportunity for a total reset.

[Raina Greenberg]

But listen, I just feel like men are like. Some of their dumb brains would be like, okay, so every time I put

[Ashley Hess]

a finger in her butt, I get a blowjob.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, they're going to think that they're being rewarded.

[Vanessa Marin]

There's not classical conditioning going on here. You just do it sparingly.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Have a bigger conversation. This is the last ditch of the butt. It's a little bit of last ditch ever. But it can be, like, a great. If you're just really stuck in that moment. Like, let me just focus on you for a moment, because that feels really sexy. Who wouldn't want you to focus on them for a second? And it just gives you the opportunity to, like, reset the moment.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes.

[Vanessa Marin]

And you might be able to figure out some positive feedback or some coaching to give to your partner while you're doing it. So you might say something like, let's say you're going down on your partner. He's a guy, and you can, like, lick the tip of his head and see. Like, hey, do you like the way I'm licking you? I want you to do this to me next. So you're actually, like, teaching him a little technique in the moment. Or it could be more broad. Like, do you like when I go nice and slow? Like, This. I want you to do that to me next. You know, so it could be super specific, or it can be general. But it's a very sexy way of giving your partner a little bit of information.

[Raina Greenberg]

I think we. I'm just trying to think of what we see the most. Questions, complaints, emails, messages about. I mean, a lot of it is oral sex. And either that they aren't going down there, or they're doing a total. They can't find the clit. I mean, I think that that can be like, I love what you're doing. It just needs to be, what, higher up? Like, I don't know. I feel like I've never really experienced where a guy really has no idea what is going on down there.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, it's not pleasant.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, so one great resource that we have is we have these foreplay guides where we have super specific and detailed illustrated techniques. And so we love recommending couples get those together because it really levels the playing field. You feel like you're both kind of like learning new techniques. Techniques together, and you can try things out together. It makes it feel fun to learn new techniques rather than like, oh, my God, now I've got to teach you what to do. But another technique that you can do, I call it the eye exam technique. Like, you know when you go get an eye exam and they're like, okay, what's better? Like, this one or this one kind of thing. So compare two techniques against each other. So it gives you a little bit of information to go off of. Because, like, if you ask someone, somebody, tell me what you like. That just feels like a really big question. It's hard to answer. I can't give a super. Step by step, like, do exactly this and then exactly that. It's too big of a question. But if Xander's going down on me and he's like, okay, what do you like better? If I lick like this or I lick like that, I use this pressure with my tongue, or I use this pressure with my tongue. Then it's like, I have options to choose from. And he's not feeling like I'm criticizing him. Cause I'm picking up the one that's better, right? And it's like this fun kind of. We're exploring together, trying different things. So you can switch off, like, I'll do it to you and then you do it to me. But if you compare different techniques. And again, it can be specific stroke, it can be pressure, it can be speed. It can be like, two completely different activities. Like, do you like it Better when I finger you or go down on you, but it's just a more fun way to explore and give that feedback to each other.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love that. I'm assuming also I'm thinking of other things. I bet there's a lot of, like, guys putting their finger inside of you because they think that's what, what they're supposed to do.

[Ashley Hess]

So I like that a lot.

[Raina Greenberg]

But you mean during, like, there's especially younger. I feel like we, we have talked about this, like the term fingering. Some people don't know exactly. I mean, it can mean putting your fingers inside, but some women don't like that. And they're like, you're supposed to be like, playing with my clit or like the outside as opposed to like just jamming your fingers inside of me. So I feel like that can be a little difficult to redirect.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. So that can be a fun one of like, oh, do you like it better when I put my fingers inside of you on your clit? Or I do both at the same time, you know, so that could be something to explore. But yeah, I think a lot of men, I mean, and they're again, they're conditioned by tv, movies, porn, to believe that the penetration is like the be all, end all. So the funny comparison that I like to make is like, it's really important for us to think about it from a nerve ending standpoint of like, what parts of our bodies are actually wired to feel a lot of pleasure. And the interesting thing too is that our genitals, we all start off basically as one gender in the womb. And our genitals don't differentiate until like 8 to 11 weeks. So different parts of our genitals actually match up with different parts of, like, male genitals. So the vagina, the equivalent of the vagina in a woman is actually called the prostatic utricle in a man, which is like, where no man is out there expecting, like, where are my prostatic utricle orgasms? Like, how do I get that? So that all sounds a little complicated. So I like to boil it down and just say, like, intercourse for a while is basically like stroking a man's balls. So, like, sure, that might be fun. It could be pleasurable. If you have balls that are really sensitive, great, explore that. Play with those balls. But would we expect the vast majority of men to be wildly orgasmic from a little ball stroking?

[Raina Greenberg]

No.

[Vanessa Marin]

So why are we setting this expectation for women that we should be wildly orgasmic from a part of our body that just does not have very many nerve endings.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's interesting to.

[Vanessa Marin]

So guys get that a little bit more. I'm like, let's imagine an alternate universe where intercourse is like a guy rubbing is balls on a woman's clitoris. You know, like, I'm like, I'm getting the stimulation of the most sensitive part of my body and you're getting stimulation of a very insensitive part of your body. Like, why is that not working for you?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

I would get off instantly. You could rub anything on my balls.

[Vanessa Marin]

Rub those ball.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I also like just taking someone's hand gently. But I think it can be hot. I mean, I don't know, maybe I think that to do that in like a sexy way, just like moving someone a little bit from like where they were previously. Sometimes I think you can do it without words. But if it's, you know, you gotta feel the moment out.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I like, I like a request. I love stick your fingers inside of me. I like when somebody goes down on me and is like sucking on my clit and fingering me. I like the whole shebang. But what if somebody is like, my man just doesn't go down on me at all?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, that's where it's gonna be time to like, make a direct request of them. And so I always like to start again with framing it in a positive way. Like, you know, it sounds so hot to me. Or again, we can do a little bit of fibbing. Like, I. I had this incredibly sexy dream last night about you going down on me. I can't get it out of my mind. Like, I would love for you to do that. You can even turn it into this fun thing about, like, you know, why don't we have a little oral only night tonight? Like, I'll go down on you, you go down on me. So you make it feel playful rather than coming in hot with the, like, you motherfucker, you never go down on me. I'm so pissed you don't care. Make it feel more fun.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I'm sure there's also a world, especially if we're talking to. To younger people, that they just are intimidated because they don't think they know what they're doing. And they've heard women say, like, he's so bad at this and he can't find the clit. And so they've gotten in their head and they were never really taught. I don't know how you really learn. I don't know how guys learn. I don't know if it's like a man.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Another story that I tell in the book is at this same time, I was noticing that, like, Xander just really wasn't paying very much attention to my pleasure. It was very intercourse focused. He wasn't really, like, he'd touch me or go down on me for, like, 30 seconds, and then we'd move on. And I kept getting the sense of, like, God, this was actually a bit earlier in the relationship. I'm like, God, this guy seems so amazing in so many other ways, but, like, he kind of seems like an asshole in the bedroom, and I don't understand what's going on. And so I finally got up the nerve to talk to him about it, and it turned out his last girlfriend before me had said, like, she had a lot of orgasm issues. And she's like, actually, it really puts women on the spot if you, like, finger them and go down on them for a long time. So, like, it's the more polite thing to do to just move ahead. And so he was thinking he was being this nice guy of, like, oh, I've got the cheat code to women, and I know what women want. He thought he was being so kind and sensitive. And I was over here thinking, like, God, this guy is such an asshole. So again, this is, like, why I'm so passionate about communication. Like, I could have very easily broken up with him. Like, this guy is a selfish asshole in the bedroom. I'm over it. But instead, by just opening up that conversation, I realized, like, there was this awful miscommunication. I don't know why this woman said that to him in the first place, but, like, it was very easy for us to reset from there and realize, like, oh, you want me to go down on you? Oh, my God, I'm totally happy to do that.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, we say that all the time, that people are just a product of their. The partners they've had before you.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

And what pleasured. If we're talking about a man, what the. What his girlfriend girlfriends before you liked. I mean, Raina doesn't like guys going down on her for some insane reason. So if a guy dated her for a long time, period of time, especially very seriously, especially if, you know, it was his first serious relationship but you just didn't like it, he absolutely would think the next partner just didn't like it. So I'm glad that you brought that up, because we have discussed that before.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

And how they're just going off the last one. And sometimes I think what we like to hammer home to, especially any men listening, is, like, every Woman's body's different.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Just because you blew some woman's mind doesn't mean what you're doing is going to blow the mind of the next one.

[Vanessa Marin]

And I think it's important for women to recognize, too, like, it's very sexy to tell your partner what you want.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes.

[Vanessa Marin]

You know, like, we are all desperate for more feedback. And in the bedroom, like, we all want to know, am I doing a good job? Do you like this? What could I do to be the best that you've ever had? Right. And so we get so scared on the other end of that of, like, oh, I don't want to give feedback. I don't want to tell them anything, but. But, like, that. It's so valuable to hear that. And a lot of people are just desperate to hear, like, I would love

[Raina Greenberg]

for you to do this to me.

[Vanessa Marin]

You would turn me on so much if you did this.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes, it turns me on to turn another person on. I mean, that's what I really enjoy. And I think kind feedback is great. I don't mind it all. And I think how I would want it if I was, like, giving a blowjob to somebody and they stopped me at any point. I don't think I'd love that. Or if, you know, right after sex, they were like, I didn't really enjoy that experience. Like, it would really hurt or upset me. And I feel like there's just kinder ways to bring it up. But I am happy for the feedback. Cause then I'm like, how great is this? I get to be even better at this for you.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, absolutely. Another great word that you can use, too, when you're making requests is just use the word curious. I'm curious about trying this. I'm curious to see what this would be like, because sometimes when we give feedback, it can set up this dynamic of I'm the teacher and you're the student. And there's this power imbalance of, now I'm coming in here and teaching you what to do or telling you what to do. But if you use the word curious and it just kind of. It levels that playing field again. And it makes it feel like your partner's not being judged. It's like, oh, well, they're just curious to see. And it gives you a little bit more space, too. Of like, well, I don't have to guarantee that I'm going to like something in order to ask for it. I just have to, like, be curious enough to know what it's going to be like.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, so we wanted to talk about a little bit of, like, technique, and we'd have on our list banking, joking down on.

[Ashley Hess]

I sent her an email with this yesterday, and I was like, this is our work emails.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, well, so I. It's funny because I've been doing a lot of just research in my standup of asking guys if they're choking. And I have this whole thing that, like, Gen Z is just not choking, like, millennials do and older guys do, and I don't know if they're scared or they're timid or they're not sure what to do. Yeah, well, which Consent. We can't. You know, we, of course consent, but I just. I think it's intimidating, too, you know? And I think, of course, not all women want a hand on their neck, but I've been kind of interested in. In this topic of guys that are like, I would never do that. And it's like, you should try to get into it.

[Vanessa Marin]

That's Xander. No, it was so funny. I got your email, and we were having breakfast this morning. I was like, let's run through the topics that they want me to talk about. So we're, like, loudly talking about spanking. He got all excited, like, oh, don't forget to tell him to do da, da, da. Just, like, yelling about spanking and choking in the middle of this restaurant.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, my gosh.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's been spanking.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, I love it. I've always loved it, and I'll tell someone to do it. And I usually get what I want, but I also see a world in which a guy, for example, has never done that, and he's like, you want me to hit you?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Like, Xander got really nervous about the choking, and he's like, you know, I've only ever seen it in porn where it's, like, it's really aggressive, and it feels, like, violating and creepy and gross and, like, I'm nervous. I don't want to hurt you. It just, like, doesn't sound right. So let's start with choking. So.

[Raina Greenberg]

Which also, we do choking tutorials at our shows, too. So ravens are out on these streets. Really?

[Ashley Hess]

We're counting joking pros. We know all the different kinds. If you have used two hands, you have gone too far. I also.

[Raina Greenberg]

I always tell guys, I'm like, don't go top. Two hands.

[Ashley Hess]

Then you're just strangling. And that's.

[Raina Greenberg]

Maybe someone want it. I don't.

[Vanessa Marin]

I have.

[Ashley Hess]

I was surprised. We've had to tell people, don't come from behind with both Hands.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, gosh. No, no, no, no.

[Raina Greenberg]

At the show, we were in Phoenix, and we brought these guys up and ran them.

[Ashley Hess]

The waiters at the venue.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. There was not enough guys, so we brought the staff up, and this one guy, Raina, was like, why don't you show. Show us how you would choke Ashley? And he was like, okay. And he came from behind with both, and we have this image of me like this, and the way he thought he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, he stepped right up to the plate. He ran there.

[Raina Greenberg]

But then, like, Andrew Collins, for example, a friend of ours, I did his podcast, like, years ago, and he was like, can you just show me, like, how. How you do it? And at first, he did too much pressure, the fingertips. I was like, you got to do, like, a cuff.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, not, like, don't want to stop.

[Ashley Hess]

My ear.

[Vanessa Marin]

Nothing on the front of the karate chop. Only the sides of this. And you can do this to yourself. Like, the sides of your throat are pretty tough, but even the slightest bit of pressure on the front of your throat and you're, like, starting to choke.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm like, it's my windpipe blacking out.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. So anyway, so if you.

[Vanessa Marin]

If you're a guy who's nervous about it and you've never done it before, like, a really great way to ease your way into it is just, like, start to caress your hand up the neck, and you don't even have to squeeze. It's just like, putting a little bit of pressure there. And that. That movement of, like, you can move from, like, the breasts up to the neck. Like, that's super sexy. And you can see if your partner is, like, responding to that. So that's a great way to start. But then, yeah, if you do want to squeeze, you want to do it really lightly. Like, I think people underestimate how gentle you can go and still make an impact. But again, the pressure is only on the sides. It's never on the front of the throat.

[Raina Greenberg]

I just love everything in my neck area. Like, kissing, like, hands, all the things. So I think you can even do that making out. Like, I'd love.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

So we always say, like, if a guy's got his hand on your neck when you're making out, you're like, it's a lot.

[Vanessa Marin]

So I think the back of the neck, too, very underrated. But the nape of your hair. Oh, my God. So sensitive.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I. I think that this is. These are the. The things we want people to know. And I know you know mostly of Our audience is women, but them even relating to their partner and, of course, like, slipping them. This episode is just. It's not as intimidating as you think. And it's can. You don't have to go 0 to 60.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

If you've never choked somebody before, it can start. Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Soft way into it at the neck.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, this is another sneaky way that the sexual perfectionism comes creeping into our sex life is that we all feel like we have to go 0 to 60 immediately. And it's like, there's something really great about taking small steps and easing your way in. And there's a lot to explore too. Like, a little gentle caress up your throat can be way more pleasurable than, like, a tight squeeze. So it's like, don't. Don't downplay them as, like, oh, they're little baby steps. It's like, no, they're really sexy, fun, exciting things that you can do, and

[Ashley Hess]

it's not easy for everybody. I've had, like, experiences where somebody's choking me and their arm is laying a bone a little bit, and it really. It feels. I mean, nobody's trying to be violent with you, of course, but it feels a little violent or it hurts. And I don't know how to stop them because the point is to, like, be a little bit scary and dangerous.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, that's what happened to me in Greece. I was like, I'm in a chokehold.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm just gonna let him finish. I think I'll tap out. I'll tap out if I need.

[Ashley Hess]

When he comes, are you faint?

[Vanessa Marin]

Little safe word might be good. Good to use, too, if you're gonna do some, like, intense choking. For sure.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay, so I like these choking tips. Let's go to spanking.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so spanking is kind of the opposite where choking. A lot of people underestimate, like, how gently you can do it with spanking, a lot of people think that you should go soft.

[Ashley Hess]

No, we know also we people. I can't tell you how many times I've been softly spanked, and it really gives me the ick.

[Raina Greenberg]

Why don't you.

[Ashley Hess]

Somebody winds up, like, they're gonna spank you really hard, and you just get a tap. It is so ick.

[Raina Greenberg]

Wait, Raina's turn offs include too light of a spank. That's what gives you the ick.

[Vanessa Marin]

I completely resonate. There's nothing worse.

[Ashley Hess]

There's nothing worse when you think they're winding up for, like, a real hit and they just graze your butt cheek. Like they caress it. I, we do this in our lives.

[Raina Greenberg]

But I get it. I get that there's scared to hit you.

[Ashley Hess]

I know. Well, some guys are, other guys go way too hard. We do our live shows sometimes and like I'll be bent over the chair and they will knock the chair over

[Raina Greenberg]

with me in it kind of falls into me. I'm like, you should get his number. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Actually like catches me. I, I, I've walked 10ft from this bank.

[Raina Greenberg]

I don't know. I think that your butt can handle a lot. And I, I mean, I've been at points where I'm like, I'm about to come and it does hurt. And I'm like, I'm sure my ass is like bright red.

[Vanessa Marin]

But I'm.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'll tell you to stop if I don't want it anymore. But I have kind of like gritt my teeth and taking it because I'm like close. And it's like that pleasure and pain. I mean, I just think not everybody can handle that much.

[Ashley Hess]

But I. Ashley is a high paying

[Raina Greenberg]

our asses are equipped to handle to handle it. But then sometimes I'm like, can you just get the other cheek? Like I feel so unbalanced.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, switch it up a little and

[Raina Greenberg]

like that's the one with the dent in it. Like just do the other.

[Ashley Hess]

They're left cheek focused.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

Also, you have to spank me like you mean it. Dirty talk too. I feel like I can tell if you don't mean it. You know, like when somebody calls me a slut and they don't mean it. I can tell.

[Vanessa Marin]

We get very fixated on technique with sex, but the energy behind that technique is energy.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, we have totally derailed you. How do you get guys to get back anyone to spank?

[Ashley Hess]

I want to talk about the energy of spanking.

[Vanessa Marin]

So if you're in a relationship, I recommend that you have a little spanking session outside of the bedroom so you can get a sense of the level of pressure that you guys each like because it's too much in the bedroom. It's like in the moment where it's either too soft and it gives you the ick or it's too hard and you're like tears coming down your face. So do it outside the bedroom.

[Ashley Hess]

I love this.

[Vanessa Marin]

And have your partner like start kind of soft and work their way up and then tell them the level of pressure that you like. So it's like getting a sense. This is also a really great trick to use for hand jobs because a lot of women Underestimate how much pressure you can use on a penis. So you can, like, grab it and, like, squeeze and have him, like, you slowly squeeze tighter and have him tell you, like, that's the level of pressure that I like.

[Raina Greenberg]

Wait, I love that. That.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's a fun exercise.

[Vanessa Marin]

So valuable you will be.

[Raina Greenberg]

We're doing hand job squeezing tonight. After we watch, you'll be shocked by

[Vanessa Marin]

how hard you can go. A lot of women are doing, like, the sad spank equivalent of a hand job. Just, like, barely. Barely.

[Ashley Hess]

They're lightly grazing it.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

So we got to squeeze it like you mean it. So.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Other things with spanking is, like, the location is important too. Like, if you're too close into the crack, like, you can hit the tape or you can hit the hip as well. So when you're in the moment, one thing to do is, like, use your hand to kind of, like, caress the butt. So we're not spanking it, we're just caressing it. And, like, use that to kind of find the meatiest area. That's where we want spanking to happen. So you use your hand to kind of, like, find it, and then once you've found it, like, then go in for the spank.

[Ashley Hess]

Got it.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. Not that I'm the one that's spanking, but totally. I'm thinking of when guys have done that, like.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yes.

[Raina Greenberg]

They're finding where they're about to just wind up.

[Vanessa Marin]

If you don't know your target, like, it's very easy to go off.

[Raina Greenberg]

And then you're, like, funny.

[Ashley Hess]

You do have to, like, find your

[Raina Greenberg]

target, the fleshy part of the spot. And it doesn't. When they do it in the wrong part, it doesn't even make a good sound. You're like, that fell flat.

[Ashley Hess]

Smack your side. There's no pleasure zones there. You're just punching me on the side of my body.

[Vanessa Marin]

You gotta find the spot.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

I want to talk about energy for a second, though. Like, what if you're like, I just know his. His energy doesn't say, I want to spank you.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, it's. That's a tricky one. Like, so you might have to have this conversation with them, like, asking him, like. Or just giving him that positive feedback of, I love it when you spank me. I think it's so hot. It turns me on so much. A lot of guys, like, get worried about hurting you or, like, I don't want to do that if it feels, like, degrading to you. So you might just need to lead with that.

[Ashley Hess]

I love being degrading.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. So you literally say that to your partner. Like, that turns me on when you do that, when you get into that kind of energy. But I think even just talking about, like, what is the kind of energy that you most like to experience during sex? So it's different for everybody. It can be different in every moment or like in every interaction. But like, what is that vibe that you're going for? I mean, this is another thing couples very rarely talk about. But I love picking, like, pick your five favorite words that you most frequently, you know, want to experience during sex. So is it like curiosity? Is it exploration? Is it romance? You know, they can be totally varied. But I think one of the most important ones is enthusiasm. Like, somebody can have the best technique in the world, but if you can tell they're just not into it, maybe they're not even present in the moment. They're just going through the motions. Like, that's some of the worst sex ever.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes. I dated somebody like that. Perfect dick, great body, good looking guy. I was just like, am I bothering you?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Right? And I feel like you hear that with blowjobs, where. Oh yeah, guys just say, I just want you to be enjoying it and not feel like.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's the number one technique for a blow job. If you are enthusiastic about it, you can have really shitty technique. But if you're really into it, he's gonna.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's a life hack. Okay, can we just go back to spanking really quick? I'm ready to do our spanking whole episode. You know what I think is funny? That when guys vary in technique, it's a quick and they pop back out or they kind of hold their hand there, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's either like they do lap and they hold it or they go

[Ashley Hess]

and they just like, they leave their hand.

[Raina Greenberg]

But it's also kind of like, I think, tell me if it kind of compares. You wouldn't really understand. But like when you do, when you get bikini waxed and then the second they rip a thing off, they put their hand there to like, kind of

[Vanessa Marin]

like, yeah, that is a technique is it kind of helps dull the pressure. So if you're doing a really intense spank, that actually is a good way to like dull it. But if you want to feel the pain of it, then take the hand away and you'll feel it more.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like it's funny. When you're having sex with someone, you. You're like, oh, that's their technique. Uhhuh. It's more the quick pop, pop. Maybe we just end with 69 in.

[Vanessa Marin]

I gotta be honest, guys. I'm just not a 69 fan person.

[Raina Greenberg]

You're not really either. I just kind of, like, we wondered

[Vanessa Marin]

if you had any. I can. I just always have to be honest about that. I'm like. I like the giving or the receiving at one or the other. Okay. But a great technique for 69ing is try going on your sides instead of top to bottom. So a lot of people don't like, 69 in because they're like, somebody's face is always in somebody's ass. And it's just like, it's hard to. If you're the one on top, it's like. It's kind of hard. You're, like, hovering. But you need to use your hands to brace you up. But you also want to use your hands to, like, do a blow job or a hand job or whatever it is. So it can be a little bit tricky. But if you flip over onto your sides, you can still have that configuration of, like, heads are in genitals, but it's a more comfortable position to be in for some people. You've got, like, an arm that's a little bit more free to help you work.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love that.

[Ashley Hess]

Great.

[Raina Greenberg]

Great. That's a great tip. I like just side sex Anyway, aside from 69ing, like, wake up in the morning. Yeah. So just kind of take that into your 69ing.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. And also with 69ing, you can do just. Just your hands. So I think a lot of people feel like you have to do oral sex, but, like, you could do just your hands because hands are a lot easier to do as well. And some people just prefer that. So it's fine. It counts if it's just hands.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm excited for the next person I date to do this hand job night.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Where I'm just like, harder.

[Vanessa Marin]

Harder.

[Raina Greenberg]

How much more?

[Ashley Hess]

So funny to me.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think hand jobs are one of the most underrated sex acts. I will write them off.

[Raina Greenberg]

But, no, we love them.

[Vanessa Marin]

I love.

[Ashley Hess]

I love stroke a deck.

[Vanessa Marin]

They're fun to do, and a lot of people are like, oh, he can do it better than, you know, than I can. No, it's very fun to have it done to you.

[Ashley Hess]

He doesn't have to do it. Isn't that nice?

[Raina Greenberg]

And then he teaches you how to

[Vanessa Marin]

do it, and then, yeah, it's very fun.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, my gosh, Vanessa, this was so wonderful. Love you. I love this conversation so much. Do you feel like Anything was left out.

[Vanessa Marin]

You're dying, guys. I could sit here and talk.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. I know.

[Vanessa Marin]

We'll have to have you back. We'll do it in la. I'm so excited that you guys are coming out.

[Ashley Hess]

We are too. We can't wait. Yeah, we'll do. I love all your episodes are great. So if people are looking for a podcast to listen to about. You have a 69 episode. You have a squirting episode. I was really get granular.

[Vanessa Marin]

We have a child free episode, too. I know that that was something that you guys did. That's our most popular one.

[Ashley Hess]

Wow.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Are you guys.

[Vanessa Marin]

We're going to child free. Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

I loved you.

[Ashley Hess]

Love to see you.

[Raina Greenberg]

I really want to listen to that because we came at that from obviously, two single women. And so I'm definitely going to cue that up and listen to you guys discuss it as a couple.

[Ashley Hess]

You were so great. And this is one of. I'm sure everybody's going to want to find you everywhere they can. Your website, your Instagra, everything. So tell them and then tell them when the book comes out and everything else they can find.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. So I would love to connect with your audience on Instagram. We're Anessa and Xander. Shoot us a dm, Let us know you found out about me on Girls Gotta eat. We have a ton of information on Instagram too. Like, we do stories, like I was saying every day, so it's a great way to just like, get the conversation going. Sometimes we even do stories where we say things that like, okay, you watch the story and just crank the volume up so your partner's, like, in the background. And they hear it. They're like, wait, what? What are you talking about? So that's a great way to get it started, too.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love that. That's great. I mean, we always say use our podcast as a gateway to a discussion that you want to have. And I like that. That just, like, crank up the volume.

[Vanessa Marin]

We put up a question box. It's like, what's something that you want us to say out loud so you can play it when your partner's in the room.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love that your partner comes around the corner, he's like, what was that about?

[Ashley Hess]

Can you order?

[Vanessa Marin]

It's a great, like, great way to teach your partner something without having to

[Ashley Hess]

stitch genius in the apartment. That is so funny.

[Vanessa Marin]

So come say hi on Instagram. And we have a ton of information on our highlights about all of our different guides and courses. The foreplay guides, we have, like, next level Intercourse. All kinds of fun stuff. And then we're also [e-mail] it's my initials. The book Sex Talks comes out February. We're so excited about it. And yeah, yeah. Our podcast, Pillow Talks on all major podcast platforms.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh my gosh.

[Raina Greenberg]

Love a February release.

[Ashley Hess]

We do. We love February.

[Vanessa Marin]

I love When's your birthday? The 13th.

[Raina Greenberg]

Love it.

[Ashley Hess]

And also, I just want to say this episode is pretty heteronormative. People with penises, you really do make an effort to be pretty inclusive with your business. I've noticed.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

As well.

[Vanessa Marin]

The inclusivity is really important to us. Obviously, Xander and I are male, female couple, so we try to like, call that out, but we, we think everybody is deserving of hot sex and deep love. So we make a really big effort to make everything inclusive.

[Ashley Hess]

Good. Well, we loved having you. Thank you for being here with us. We really appreciate it. And Ashley's just going to take us out.

[Raina Greenberg]

Hope you guys enjoyed this episode re release. You can find us at girls gotta eat.com girls gotta eat podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess on Instagram. Raina is raina.greenberg. raina Greenberg for her tour tickets and you can watch full video again on Spotify and YouTube. Subscribe Share this episode with a friend and we will see you Thursday.

[Ashley Hess]

Have a good week, guys.

[Vanessa Marin]

Bye.

[Raina Greenberg]

I.