Perks of Sex Toys and Short Guys with Sally Cotching

Summary

Girls Gotta Eat — "Perks of Sex Toys and Short Guys with Sally Coching" (Sept 8, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode is an engaging, comedic deep dive into sex toys, dating strategies, self-pleasure, and debunking dating app stereotypes. Co-hosts Ashley Hesseltine and Raina Greenberg are joined by Sally Koching—Head of Product at Vibes Only and longtime friend of the show—to debut new products, answer listener questions about sex toys and relationships, and discuss Sally’s unique, spreadsheet-driven approach to dating, including her relationship with her “short king” partner.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Egg Carton Prank Saga (03:14–13:18)

• Ashley shares an ongoing playful prank with her fiancé: Hiding a tiny two-egg carton in unexpected places (bed, laundry, suitcase, yoga mat). The saga becomes an inside joke with Raina and Sally.
• “This could go on forever. Who’s to say? We could be dying together in hospice and the nurse brings in the egg carton.” — Ashley (13:18)
• Theme: Joy in partnership and the importance of fun, even without kids.

Memorable Quote

"We have to find ways to entertain ourselves. We have to find joy."
— Ashley (13:27)

---

2. Summer Recap & Personal Reflections (02:45–13:38)

• Raina and Ashley celebrate their best summers ever, travel stories, family time, and upcoming fall/wedding plans.
• Raina’s strong confirmation about not wanting kids, and Ashley’s appreciation of being an aunt.

---

3. Introducing Sally Koching: Sex Toy Design, Origin Story, and Building Vibes Only (21:35–28:41)

• Sally has worked in the sex toy industry for 7 years and helped pivot brands from “taboo” to “lifestyle.”
• She connected with Ashley by sending her vibrators during the pandemic, leading to their business partnership.
• Sally’s vision: “I wanted sex toys to feel like an extension of your lifestyle, not something you should be ashamed of.” (23:12)

Workflow Details

• Prototyping, rigorous product testing routines, and the team’s hilariously candid feedback sessions (“It could be an inch shorter because my vaginal cavity can’t take it.” — Raina, 28:12).
• Designing for all genders: Recruiting friends (gay men) to help prototype penis toys when single.

---

4. Dating as a Sex Toy Entrepreneur: Filtering, Transparency, and Short Kings (29:46–63:08)

A. Navigating Dating & Profession

• Sally always discloses her job on dates: “If you get in my car, I have samples in the trunk!” (29:46)
• Mixed reactions: Some men are supportive, others objectify or get intimidated.
• Raina and Ashley discuss the stigma, double-standards, and commercialization of women who work in sexual wellness.

B. Sally's Spreadsheet Dating Experiment (Amy Chan’s "Secretary Problem") (34:42–39:43)

• After a hard breakup, Sally began tracking dating experiences using a spreadsheet—columns for compatibility, pros/cons, etc.
• “Why wouldn’t we put as much care into this as we put into our jobs?” — Ashley (38:01)
• The experiment led her to meet her current partner during the “first 12” phase.

C. Meeting Her Partner & The “Short King” Conversation (43:34–63:08)

• Sally’s boyfriend is 14 years older and much shorter than her previous partners (she’s 5’3”; he’s under 6 ft).
• They met on Raya, began as casual, but reconnected after giving each other space post-grief.
• Empathy & patience were essential due to his bereavement.
• Discussion on height filters: Critique of women filtering men by height on apps; only ~14.5% of American men are over 6 feet (53:11).
  • “Why would I compete with every woman for 14% of men? That sounds really hard.” — Sally (55:11)
  • Focus on personality, emotional compatibility, and kindness over superficial criteria.
• Short kings & empathy: Shorter men may develop more character and empathy due to experiencing less privilege/opportunity.

Notable Exchange

“After my breakup, I wasn’t like, ‘Oh, I wish he was shorter or taller.’ That was so not the reason I was heartbroken. It was because of all these other incompatibilities.”
— Sally (56:57)

---

5. Sex Toys 101: New Products, Myths & Listener Q&A (65:05–90:39)

A. Product Launches (65:21–75:27)

• Farah Finger Vibe: Finger-worn vibrator for solo or partner play; designed for versatility and comfort.
• Glow Below Intimate Moisturizing Oil: Vulva-safe daily moisturizer with skin-friendly ingredients, especially for sensitive skin or menopausal dryness.
• Play Pillow (Sex Wedge): Foam wedge for positioning/support during sex; enhances angles and keeps things comfy and adventurous.
  • “It’s wedge-shaped...meant to go under your buttocks and lift that hole up.” — Raina (73:03)
  • Discreet, high-end design—“No one would know you’re carrying a sex pillow if you took it down the street.” — Sally (75:03)

B. Sex Toy Myths: Vibrator ‘Addiction’ & Mixing it Up (75:36–78:48)

• Is vibrator ‘addiction’ real? Not medically, but “your brain can get used to one style of stimulation.” Vary positions, toys, or try manual play to keep sensation pathways open (75:57).
  • “You really have to think about using a sex toy, any sex toy, as...part of a workout routine. You wouldn’t just do the same five exercises.” — Sally (75:57)
• Encourage using fingers/switching up routine to avoid over-reliance on a single stimulation type.

C. Introducing Toys With Partners (79:27–83:04)

• Don’t position toys as a fix for a partner’s “deficiency.” Instead, frame it as adding fun together.
  • “This is not replacing you, this is in addition to our sex life. It’s your sous chef—why do you hate your sous chef?” — Ashley (81:31)
• Start with easy, non-threatening toys or light bondage (handcuffs, sleep masks) if your partner is hesitant.

D. Cleaning, Safety, & Toy Reuse (84:31–87:39)

• Use dedicated toy cleaners, but team admits to sometimes just rinsing or going “lazy.”
• Clean between partners for hygiene; if a partner is worried, “Just lie. Or send them a link to buy a new one.” — Sally & Ashley (85:24)

E. Tips for Butt Play (87:54–90:25)

• Be turned on, relaxed, and use plenty of lube (not spit).
• Start with external massage and use toys with anchors to prevent accidents.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Sex Toy Testing:
  “By the time I had to use that hard vibrator...in the middle of a call...Ashley’s like, ‘Okay, I’ll be right back.’” — Sally (28:29)
• On Height Filters:
  “I like what I like, but when I really think...what do I love about my previous partners? The way they look is so far down the list.” — Raina (56:39)
• On Short Kings:
  “Let it be known, short kings are not charity work. I said it here today.” — Sally (61:27)
• On Toy Hygiene:
  “How many people have we let finger us, and they have dirty fingernails, by the way?” — Ashley (87:23)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:14 — Egg carton prank saga begins
• 21:35 — Sally Koching introduction & Vibes Only origin
• 34:42 — Sally’s dating spreadsheet experiment
• 43:34 — Meeting her partner & age/height differences
• 53:09 — Debunking the “Six Foot Filter” myth
• 65:05 — New sex toy launches
• 75:36 — Vibrator “addiction” & mixing up routines
• 79:27 — How to introduce toys with a partner
• 84:31 — Toy reuse, cleaning, cleaner discussion
• 87:54 — Tips for butt play

---

Tone & Style

• Frank, playful, irreverent, embracing sexual topics with humor and candor
• Community- and women-focused: Inclusive, body-positive, holding space for all experiences and preferences
• Actionable advice: Rooted in personal experience, listener questions, and science-backed recommendations

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• Sex toys should be embraced as lifestyle accessories—not hidden away.
• Don’t over-filter potential partners for superficial traits; openness can yield unexpected happiness.
• Using vibrators isn’t “addictive,” but mixing up your routine is key for continued pleasure.
• Introduce sexual novelties as collaborative fun; don’t make a partner feel inadequate.
• Good sex requires communication, curiosity, and sometimes, a spreadsheet.

---

Find all new Vibes Only products mentioned at vibesonly.com and keep up with “Girls Gotta Eat” at girlsgottaeat.com or follow them on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.

---

Memorable close:

“Let it be known, short kings are not charity work. I said it here today.”
— Sally (61:27)

Transcript

[Sally Koching]

You really have to think about using a sex toy, any sex toy, as like it's part of a workout routine your whole life. You wouldn't just do the same five exercises.

[Ashley Hess]

This podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Sally Koching]

Hi guys. Hi, guys.

[Raina Greenberg]

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta eat. E A G L E S Eagles. I was like, what's she doing?

[Ashley Hess]

It's Eagle season. I forgot to mention on the snack last week which was the NFL season opener. If you are hearing this, we beat the Cowboys.

[Raina Greenberg]

Love to see it.

[Ashley Hess]

If they lost, we will be taking this out.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, it hasn't happened.

[Ashley Hess]

No, it says tomorrow. I am so amped as we record. It's tomorrow. So anyway, hope we start the season with a win. We are America's team.

[Raina Greenberg]

You know, it's hard for me. New merch. I love and hate the Cowboys. Cause I you and I love the cheerleaders, but I dated that guy who worked for the Cowboys and he is the worst. So I can't root for them. So I mean, obviously I'll root for the Eagles always.

[Ashley Hess]

We love the show about the cheerleaders, but we never got the cheerleaders at one of our shows. Just the drum line. So I don't have. We did have the drum line. You're right. We didn't have the cheerleaders. Kelly never responded to my email. So, like, I have like a real loyalty to a lot of these teams that we've had their cheerleaders and drum lines. But yeah, we've never had America's sweethearts on our shows.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. Laverne's Hangar Partners thanks to Quints. Get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next order at quints.com GGE and RocketMoney. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions at RocketMoney.com GGE.

[Ashley Hess]

And thank you to Nutrafol. Get $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping at Nutrafol.com with code GGE10. And thank you to Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order at LiquidIV.com with code GGE. And Cakes Body, get 20% off your first order at CakesBody.com with code GGE. Okay, so we have new Vibes Only products launching. We are so excited to talk about them in depth. Today we have an incredible guest. She's part of our team with Vibes Only. She develops our products with us. We'll chat with her about the products and we'll debut them for you guys. And we're also going to talk about her story and dating. And she has a lot to share. And it's just a really special episode.

[Raina Greenberg]

I cannot wait to release these toys because I have been masturbating with our new toy every day. It's my favorite thing. I cannot wait to get this out into the world, and we'll tell you about it during the episode. But I cannot wait.

[Ashley Hess]

You guys will see.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm so excited.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes. So we're so excited about it, but it's officially fall. We mentioned this on the snack last week, and we were just talking about our summer, and we had a great summer and just sharing our highlights.

[Raina Greenberg]

I think this was my best summer ever.

[Ashley Hess]

You had a great summer?

[Raina Greenberg]

I had a great summer. Well, you know, this is, you know, my theme of my year. I'm doing it. So I enjoyed my shit. I went to Europe. I got to spend time with my nephew, which is just, like, the most special, and just, like, get to know him a little better. I went to the Hamptons. I spent over a month in New York. I just. I had the best summer.

[Ashley Hess]

I just loved it.

[Raina Greenberg]

We had great weather, and I saw lots of our friends and celebrated my 40th birthday with, like, all of our friends and went on your bachelorette party, and it just was, like, a great summer.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, it was. It was a really good summer. And we were just talking about, like, some of the stories and the highlights, and I am going to share a story that's really dominated my whole summer, and it's been more of an inside joke with the friends, but I'm going to share it with the world. And this is something that's been happening around the house with my fiance and me. So this started probably early summer, maybe late spring. Spring months now. Ongoing saga for months. So we do these meal kits sometimes. I'm using sun basket. If you guys are listening, hit us up. We'd love a sponsorship. So we had this meal, and it came with an egg or two, and it came in this little carton, the mini carton for two eggs.

[Sally Koching]

So cute.

[Ashley Hess]

Have you ever seen this before?

[Raina Greenberg]

No. I didn't know this existed. I thought it was 6 or 12 or nothing. Right.

[Ashley Hess]

So this little twofer and I had seen this before, maybe in a previous meal kit or I think you can buy two eggs in the store. Whatever. My fiance thought it was so funny and so cute. And he was like, I've never seen that. I was like, I know. It's, like, really adorable. And he was like, that's such a funny way to do eggs. And he, like, couldn't get over it. And so as we were, like, wrapping up the meal and throwing out the trash and stuff. It was sitting up on the counter, like he wanted to save it. And I was like, can you hand me that? I'm gonna throw in the trash. He was like, I'm gonna save that. And the theme of a lot of our interactions. I don't know if he's fucking with me. And I'm like, you're not saving that. He was like, I'm gonna save it. I was like, you're serious? He was like, I think it's, like, so cute and funny. I'm gonna save it. I was like, okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

You guys are sentimental. You guys are the most. That everything in my house goes in the trash.

[Ashley Hess]

So he. It stays up on the counter for days, and I'm sick of looking at it. And again, I was like, babe, can I throw this out? And he was like, no, I'm saving it. And so I put it up in his room. And I don't know if I've talked about this, like, at length or made a full announcement. He is like, his room where he has, like, all of his stuff.

[Raina Greenberg]

Full announcement. I don't know that I announced that we have separate rooms.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, we share a bed every night. Like, we share a bedroom. But he has a room with, like, all of his stuff. And it works out great for us.

[Raina Greenberg]

I think it's great for couples. What a dream. If you have separate bathrooms, their stuff can be in another room. Like, this is the key to a long term relationship.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean, it is our guest room. So when people come, it has to be all cleaned up and there's space for everything. But when we don't have a guest everywhere, like, if we did get in a fight and he wanted to sleep in that bed, he'd have to take an hour to clear it off because it's, like, covered in his clothes and all of his stuff. Whatever. That room is, like, kind of a disaster. So I put it up in his room, I put it on his dresser, and I don't think anything of it. Maybe about a week later, we're getting into bed and I pull back my comforter and my sheet, and there it is. Hadn't thought about it. Put it away. Out of my mind. It's in my bed. Our bed. I was like, you have to be kidding me. So I just, like, tucked it away.

[Raina Greenberg]

And you tucked it back into the bed?

[Ashley Hess]

No, I was like, I'm gonna hold onto this and put it somewhere for him next.

[Raina Greenberg]

So you don't acknowledge this?

[Ashley Hess]

No, I don't acknowledge it. I was like, I'm gonna. I'm like, it's my turn now. Okay. So I think that first time I put it by the toilet or something, like, I put. The. The toilet seat was up, and I put it, like, behind, like, right. You know, where you'd, like, put the toilet seat down. You'd see it. Okay. So I think that's where I put it. Now starts this egg carton battle back and forth. Sometimes I would address it and laugh, and sometimes we wouldn't. And, like, the person that found it would just go put it, like, somewhere else. And this isn't, like, daily, but we go back and forth, like, a couple times. And then some time passes, and I feel like the egg carton is kind of out of our lives. I was like, maybe it's over. I certainly wasn't thinking about it. I am on my tour all summer, and I get to a tour stop. I think it was D.C. i open up my suitcase. It's there.

[Raina Greenberg]

And this is at which point you'd start to be honest and bring other people into it and let us know.

[Ashley Hess]

This is going. Yes. So I told you and Sally are the only two people that know about this since she's our guest today. So it's been this thing with the three of us where I've been, like, telling you guys where it resurfaces.

[Raina Greenberg]

This is when I really decided he was super funny. So I've known him for years. Obviously, I've always thought he was funny, but this is when I was like, he's, like, on our level now.

[Ashley Hess]

So I could not believe he got me to take this across the country.

[Raina Greenberg]

I couldn't believe it was in my space. Now you have to bring it back.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes.

[Raina Greenberg]

He's giving you a chore.

[Ashley Hess]

So I put it somewhere after that. And the next big one was, it was in my laundry, My dirty laundry. So I'm like, have my dirty laundry basket downstairs doing laundry, and I'm taking out dirty clothes, and under a bunch of the clothes wedged in the dirty laundry.

[Raina Greenberg]

That is risky.

[Ashley Hess]

But I have to take it out to kind of separate things so he knows how I do laundry. You are a little bit more in my laundry basket. I was like, this is crazy. So I go and put it in his car.

[Raina Greenberg]

I actually was wondering at which point it was going to be in a car.

[Ashley Hess]

So I go out because I was already down there, like, the garage, the basement. I go out and I put it in his car. I kind of, like, wedge it in the door, like, where you'd grab the door handle. And the next day he goes, where's the egg carton? And I was like, what do you mean? He was like, where did it go? I was just, like, curious. And he was like, did you find it? Your laundry? I was like, yeah, I found it. And I was like, babe, I put it in your car. You know I did. And he was like, no, you didn't. And he was like, what do you put in my car? He was like, I must have accidentally run over it, or it must have, like, blown out the window or something. And so I was just like, you're kidding me. You're. You can't be serious. Like, there's no way you got into the car and you saw it. He was like, no, I didn't. I swear to God. He was like, I must have ran over it.

[Raina Greenberg]

And then his car was in the garage when you put it on the thing.

[Ashley Hess]

It was in the garage.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

So I'm like, I know he's fucking with me, but he would not admit it. And weeks went by.

[Raina Greenberg]

Weeks.

[Ashley Hess]

Three weeks.

[Raina Greenberg]

Three weeks went by.

[Ashley Hess]

Last week, I was gonna do one of my outside workouts. I have an outside workout mat, and I have my, like, inside workout mat.

[Raina Greenberg]

Rayna.

[Ashley Hess]

I went to get my workout Matt, and it had been weeks since I had worked out, like, outside in a specific way. It's in the yoga mat, wrapped up in the mat. I was like, you. You have to be kidding. My Kimplus is, like, wrapped up in this yoga mat.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's how he knows you haven't worked out in weeks.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. So I was like, okay, what's my next play? And we were gonna grill out that night. So I put it in the grill.

[Raina Greenberg]

Amazing hiding spot.

[Ashley Hess]

So the grill has a cover on it. Lifted up the COVID put it in the grill. So he found it in the grill. And then I was like, I think we're done. This has to end. It's been all summer.

[Raina Greenberg]

I never want this to end.

[Ashley Hess]

And I found it in my suitcase when we went to Catalina.

[Raina Greenberg]

He double suitcased. I mean, he's getting. He's getting lazy, but he's like.

[Ashley Hess]

I think he likes that moment where I find it in the suitcase in front of him.

[Raina Greenberg]

In front of him. I don't know. He double suitcased it.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't love it.

[Raina Greenberg]

So do you think there's a way we could get it to his office? Well, now he's gonna find out about this. He listens to the show.

[Ashley Hess]

I'll make sure he doesn't Listen to this.

[Raina Greenberg]

We'll block. I think it'd be funny. Like a place like you and I couldn't possibly have gotten into. But, like, we get it to his desk.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes, 100%. Oh, my God. We have to do this. I'm gonna get in touch with one of his co workers.

[Raina Greenberg]

You have to. I want it on his desk so bad. I'll do it. I'll do it myself. I'll take it there.

[Ashley Hess]

I have something else up my sleeve. I'm obviously not gonna say it, but don't. A grand finale.

[Raina Greenberg]

We're gonna keep it after that, too. But I am excited for the finale. And are you guys. Do you guys prank each other?

[Ashley Hess]

This is the most that we're doing. Like, a prank. I don't know. Like, I guess sometimes we might scare each other around the house. I love to scare him if I can, but this is, like, our main prank.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love prank videos so much. Like, Jackie and I on Saturday night were supposed to, like, go to this party downstairs in the house we were staying at, and we were laying in bed watching fart prank videos for, like, hours. People came upst, like, what are you guys doing? I was like, I thought my eyeballs were going to come out of their sockets. But I. I don't want to be pranked. I don't think I'd be, like, cool about.

[Sally Koching]

But you'd like this. This.

[Ashley Hess]

This isn't.

[Raina Greenberg]

I don't.

[Ashley Hess]

Because this isn't going to startle you in any way. It's. I mean, I've seen couples do, like, water balloons filled with stuff, like, paintball style. Like, I've seen couples that, like, I could never. And if that's what you're into, that's fine. But, like, this. This trend is going around on TikTok, and it was like, I feel rich because this is my husband kind of thing.

[Sally Koching]

Have you seen this?

[Ashley Hess]

Or just like, it's cute. But one I saw was just my nightmare. This man, like, picked up his wife and he threw her in the pool at their wedding. He smashed cake in her face. Like, it was crazy. This couple was not a prank anxiety. They, like, like to do that kind of stuff. They're really rough with each other. Like, the cake smash. I can't.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's not a prank to me, that's just ruining my day.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, but they both like it. Like, she posted.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. My two favorite prank videos that I watch are, like, just montages of people. Like, when your man walks in the door, you're laying on the floor with, like, your Head sticking out of a doorway like, you're dead. No, you gotta watch them. They're so funny. If somebody did this to me, I would not be cool about it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I don't know if I like that. Like, pretending you're hurt. I did it once when I was a kid and I got in trouble.

[Raina Greenberg]

Dead.

[Ashley Hess]

Dead. A friend of mine and I did this when we were younger and we, like, got in trouble. In trouble. Like, I think they called her house, like it was her family.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, well, if that's not for you. The other one I really like is when there's, like, a stuffed animal or something. Usually stuffed animal or a doll. If you have children, tie a string to it and then film them and just kind of, like, move the doll a little by the string and, like, they kind of, like, take notice of it. And then you, like, totally move the doll. Like, you yank that string, people lose their minds. People jump over couches. They spill everything that they have. They, like, break their computer. It's my favorite video.

[Sally Koching]

Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

All right, I'll check these out.

[Raina Greenberg]

Dollstrings again. If anybody did this to me, I would never forgive it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I'd be curious. Let us know in the YouTube comments if you guys have any little pranks or jokes around the house. But, yeah, this is our main one. But this could go on forever. Who's to say?

[Raina Greenberg]

I hope it does.

[Ashley Hess]

We could be dying together in hospice and the nurse brings in the egg carton. There's jello in it.

[Raina Greenberg]

We're not on kids. We have to find ways to entertain ourselves.

[Ashley Hess]

We have to find joy.

[Raina Greenberg]

To find joy. I have never been more solidified in not wanting children than this summer. Every day, I just, like, got up and went, you know, and that's how I'm trying to live.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, but. I know. But I feel the same way. Not that I. There was ever any question, but also just had so much fun with my nephews and the kids this summer. So it's nice to be able to appreciate that and, like, love these children and also be, like, not for me.

[Raina Greenberg]

But anyways, I am looking forward to the fall and all the stuff we have coming up and your wedding. And I have fall goals now, too.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

My fall goals is that I am gonna go to the doctor. I'm going to the gyno. I'm going to change my IUD to the one where you don't get your period. Okay. That's my first goal. I'm going to go to your dentist. I'm going to get, like, that Gum thing done. Not the same one as you left.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Not a gum graft. Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

There was another doctor I had to go to. Oh. Probably just Botox, but I'm going to make doctor's appointments. That feels like a fall thing to do.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

I was kind of in that era when I turned 40 where I was like, I got to get this stuff handled. Not that there was anything wrong, but I need to get checked out.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. I'm just gonna. I gotta get a tune up every.

[Ashley Hess]

I like that goal for your fall tune up. I do need to schedule, like, my Dr. Barrett appointments and what I want to do before the wedding. Like, I don't know. I've thought about, like, a little bit of filler. I haven't had filler in years. And that. But not with no hard.

[Raina Greenberg]

No, I'm not gonna let you do this. Every time you say, you might want to get filler, and then I'm like, I'm just gonna let her fly. And then you're like, I don't know if I like it here. He's incredible. But you.

[Ashley Hess]

I did like the temple filler.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

And I do have these holes in my head.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, I don't know that if weeks before your wedding is the time to take it for a spin.

[Ashley Hess]

All right, we'll see.

[Raina Greenberg]

If you look at your wedding photos and you're like, there's holes in my head. We'll edit them.

[Sally Koching]

Can you fix these dents in my head?

[Ashley Hess]

Can you fix my hollow temples? So I'll look at them. Don't focus at all.

[Raina Greenberg]

I have been meaning to ask you when you want to go get our Botox done. So that's on my calendar, too.

[Ashley Hess]

End of September, early October.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. If that lines up, I'm available. I'm gonna go to New York, and then we're going to Lady World, Florida.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm just. I'm trying to spend more time in New York.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. So Lady World. That. We're gonna link that on our website.

[Raina Greenberg]

Girls gotta eat dot com.

[Ashley Hess]

So you guys can get over to Lady World. That's gonna be September 26th through the 28th. Our show is gonna be the 26th. So Lady World in Miramar Beach, Florida. And then while we're here, I have Philly shows. A few tickets left, and that's gonna be September 24th. A few tickets left for that. And you can check my stuff [e-mail].

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

And I am going to tell you about something that will be a part of my fall. It has been a part of my summer. And that is Cake's Body obsessed, right? I like, can't. I'm gonna have to order more. These are like the new bra for me. Like, I'm doing these all the time.

[Raina Greenberg]

And they're, they're nipple covers, but they're like, different than that.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes. So I've talked about the occasions when you would wear these. And I had one, especially when we were in Catalina this past weekend for Labor Day weekend. I had a shirt that was like sheer, sheer. Like you could not, not wear anything under it. It would look inappropriate. I mean, you could like see full areola, like see full titty. And it was just kind of a brown color, but it was like sheer. So I wore these and it still looked very sexy because you could still see the shape of my breast, essentially. But obviously no nipple, no areola. And I was like, these are the perfect solution for so many things. So we are just obsessed. Cakes Body has these boob solutions. They have perfected the adhesive nipple cover by designing the first sticky, not icky solution. They are super seamless. There is large size and shape range to ensure that seamless coverage. So again, like, it's not a one size fits all situation because we don't all have the same size breast, of course. And they have this adhesive free nip nook. So, like the center part that's going to be on your areola is not going to be sticky and you're going to pull it off. It's not going to feel like you're ripping off a band aid and rip your nips off. Dermatologist tested and approved. Safe for sensitive skin. It was founded by these twin sisters, Taylor and Casey, in 2022. We've talked about how much we love what the company does and with their employees and the way that they launched. And we just feel like they're so obviously women forward, women founded and we are just obsessed. I mean, there's so many different moments where you would need these. And I've said before, they even give my breasts like a little extra shape. I have obviously really small breasts. And sometimes I just feel like some days I'm like, I am just a nipple. And so these really kind of rounded out. I just, I love them so much. I'm going to get. Because you can wash them and reuse them, of course, but I just need like multiple pairs. Cause I'm out here just like washing and washing and letting them air dry and then you just, they restick and you just use them again. So we really love them. And you guys can check them out. To check out the product for yourself, go to cakesbody.com you can even use code GGE for 20% off your first order this summer. Again, that is cakesbody.com code GGE.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay? And I have a million subscriptions floating around. Lord even knows what I signed up for this summer to get deals and then totally forgot about it. So Rocket Money is the personal finance app that helps you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. So the interface is super easy to use. You go in there and it will just sort of do a search for all the subscriptions you're paying for, all the services that you do and don't remember signing up for and help you cancel them if you need to if you no longer want them. They have a whole dashboard that lays out your whole financial picture. And I don't think a lot of people even know their financial picture in terms of what bills are you paying, what are the things that are due, paydays, things like that. So they'll lay it out for you in a way that's really easy to digest. And if you're just looking to set a goal to just be a little more financially responsible, this is like the number one tool to do it. I love the app. Really easy to use. And Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com GGE today, that's RocketMoney.com GGE RocketMoney.com GGE okay, this show is.

[Ashley Hess]

Sponsored by Liquid Ivy. Liquid Ivy, if you're listening, it's time to get in touch about the gift bags for my wedding, because these are.

[Sally Koching]

Gonna be in them.

[Raina Greenberg]

We did them for the gift bags for your bachelorette.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. And I don't know, was this you or Corey's idea that to tape them to the water bottle?

[Raina Greenberg]

That was Corey's idea. And I was like, that is brilliant.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes. So we just had my second bachelorette, and Raina and my other best friend Corey did the gift bags, and you guys just did like a giant bot of water or she did, I guess. And then taped the liquid IVs to them. I know. So liquid IV, there's these little packets, and you're just going to rip them open and stick them in 16 ounces of water and it's going to hydrate you more than water alone. I mean, I think I took one every morning on these bachelorette parties that I had. They are scientifically formulated to help replenish electrolytes and fluids lost from sweat or exercise. If you're just kind of feeling kind of sluggish or under the weather, it's a great time to use them. 100% daily value of four essential B vitamins. Excellent source of vitamin C and we have loved them forever. I mean they're great to stay hydrated and fuel up for a workout or for sports, next day recovery, of course. And it's really an optimized ratio of all those things you need. Electrolytes, essential vitamins, clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. Always non gmo, vegan, gluten free, dairy free and soy free. So these are obviously great for summer, great for fall, great for wedding season. You know, anytime when you're going to want to stay hydrated and really just feel your best, live your best life. And we love the flavors. Lemon lime has always been my favorite since day one. I really like the guava. They have sugar free flavors. The orange vanilla dream is a newer flavor that's going to kind of taste like that creamsicle. Little nostalgia of that summer treat. So you guys can check it out. You can savor the last bits of summer with Liquid IV tear pour live more. Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code or GGE at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with Code [e-mail] and let's get into it with Sally.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay guys, we have somebody on the show today who is very special to us. She is our head of product vibes only. She is an unbelievable product expert. She's just the warmest, most wonderful person. You guys will get to know her today. We are just so lucky to work with her. And I'm gonna read you something she wrote about herself. She is the behind the scenes product design expert who can speak. Switch between discussing the shape of a butt plug, the merits of suction toys and business strategy in the same breath.

[Ashley Hess]

Truth.

[Raina Greenberg]

We love her so much. She is truly just such an amazing value add to our company. Please welcome to the show, Sally Koching.

[Sally Koching]

Thank you. Oh my gosh. I'm really excited to be here.

[Ashley Hess]

Sally's Australian, if you guys could tell.

[Sally Koching]

Yup, that's not a fake accent, it's a real accent.

[Ashley Hess]

Can you imagine where we Put the accent. They're gonna love it.

[Sally Koching]

I mean, I've been putting this act on for four years with you guys.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's sexy. Thank you. It adds to your allure as a sex toy person.

[Sally Koching]

Great.

[Raina Greenberg]

Sally, we want to, like, get to know you with our audience. So I think a good place to start is, like, how long you've worked in this industry and how you came to work with us and know of us and how we built this business together. So can we talk a little bit about it?

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I've been in this industry for nearly seven years now, which is crazy. It feels like I don't know my life before.

[Ashley Hess]

How are you even old enough to. People say that about entry school.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

They're like, are you even old enough to masturbate?

[Sally Koching]

I started doing Botox at 25. That helps.

[Ashley Hess]

You've been in the workforce for seven years. Ellie doesn't go in the sun, everybody.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's why she has so much clothing on.

[Sally Koching]

I'm scared of it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Sally Koching]

Too much skin care went into this. So, yeah, I was working in the sex toy industry. I've been working in PR for a long time. I took on a sex toy client, and I sort of started to turn the sex toy industry into, like, a lifestyle. I wanted it to be more like a fashion brand where you could picture your toy as an extension of your lifestyle, not something that's, like, sneaky and taboo and something you should be ashamed of. And as I was doing that, other brands started to do that as well, and I started to get really obsessed with the product. I think it's all about having the right product. No matter how much marketing you do, you just got to make sure the product. Product is perfect for the audience. So I designed it, and I was a big fan of you guys at the time. I'd been listening to you guys for years. Then the pandemic hit, and I heard Ashley had left her vibrator charger. She was a woman in.

[Ashley Hess]

I didn't bring any vibrators.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, I left.

[Ashley Hess]

We didn't know we were gonna be. I thought I was gonna leave for two weeks. My dad came and picked me up in New York on March 17, and I was like, see you in two weeks, Ma. And so I, like, packed some birth control and some clothes, and I left. Not enough clothes. And I went to the farm in Delaware, and I, like, posted or talked about. We were still recording, obviously, that I did not bring any vibrators. And Sally slid into the DMs and I was like, who's this cute girl? And she had said that she had just been to our LA show, which was in February of 2020. So right before COVID we went to Australia after Allie's homeland. And then we came home, and the world shut down. And she was so funny about it. And she sent me some vibrators. And then. And I remember one time she tagged me, and she had the dewy mug, and she had put a vibrator in it. And I was like, she's got some marketing ideas over here. She showed us how to catch your attention.

[Sally Koching]

She does, Totally. I'm so glad I caught your attention.

[Ashley Hess]

So then I told Rain. I was like, I want to start a sex toy company. I think we should really do this. And I was like, I have this woman who I think could help us. And I just got an exploratory call with you, not even with Raina. I was like, let me just feel her out. You had, like, a deck. You would pitch me. And I was like, she's the one.

[Raina Greenberg]

You were so know. You came so organized. And we were just like, anybody that has that attention to detail is somebody.

[Ashley Hess]

That we want to work with. She really, like, surprised pitched me. Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

You're shocked.

[Ashley Hess]

She came in, no lube. I was like, oh, my God. Well, I guess she's our business partner now.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, anybody who woke up one day and was like, you know, I want to masturbate professionally, that's somebody that I want to work with. You're like, I want to turn masturbating into a lifestyle.

[Sally Koching]

It was my true calling. Absolutely. And, you know, I just thought, like, I've got this opportunity to talk to these people who I have listened to for years, who I really admire, and I had really thought through, like, these girls really should have a sex toy. Like, I could see the vision, and I just thought, like, I could talk about it, but I just want to show them, and maybe they'll have the same vision as me. And it was so funny. We just were aligned on, like, the brand name and, like, the first concept, and I just was so excited that I wanted to make it perfect. I'm sorry I surprised you, but, you know, it worked.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. It was like a meeting day one.

[Raina Greenberg]

So four years ago. Right. It took us about a year to build the company.

[Sally Koching]

I think it was, like, three and a half years ago.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Like 20, 21 we started.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Pretty much a full year, and we launched in June 22nd.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

And you really brought us so much packaging to choose from. And what does the unboxing experience gonna be like, and how many toys do we launches? I think we're gonna launch with five or six to begin with. And then we were like, oh, God, no. It's too many. And we doubt it. Back to three. And you've just really helped us to formulate the strategy and turn it into more of, like, a lifestyle brand.

[Sally Koching]

Well, it's been so fun working with you guys. You have a real unique point of view, and you really understand your audience. So it was actually very easy for me to work with you because you're very clear on your vision and, like, the vibes only brand. You just seem to understand exactly what women want. So you make my job very easy.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, you make our job very fun because you show up with an arsenal of sex toys.

[Sally Koching]

Oh, my.

[Ashley Hess]

It's like, who wants to try this one? Who wants to take this one home? And, like, I just. We're talking about this stuff. Obviously, we are light about it and make jokes, but sometimes we have to talk about this stuff very seriously. It's like, oh, well, Raina's gonna try that one, because Raina's pussy is this, and Ashley's gonna try that one. It's just, like, the funniest job to have.

[Raina Greenberg]

And then you are, like, professional reminders. Like, when you tap us, you're like, I know you guys are busy, but did you have a chance to use the so and so? And it's very funny. Like, our business background. Like, if you guys, like, pull the curtain back, like, we're like, okay, it's time to do a butt plug. And Sally will go out and source 15 butt plugs, and we'll, like, lay them out on the table at my house. If you guys have ever seen videos of us testing stuff, it's always Sally in the videos. And we'll say, what is everything we like and don't like about these? The length, the shape, the size, the feel, everything. And then off we go to design something.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, it's so funny to masturbate and then go into air table and write my notes like, it's crazy to use a toy and then immediately put my pants back on and then be like, let me go tell everyone how it was.

[Raina Greenberg]

And also, it could be an inch shorter because my vaginal cavity can't take it. You know, like, that's our business meetings. And there's, like, five or six people on these meetings.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, everyone is waiting for you to masturbate. The pressure is on.

[Ashley Hess]

By the time I had to use that hard, that Hard vibrator. In the middle of.

[Sally Koching]

In the middle of a call, there was, like, a 3D printed prototype, and we were like, you're just gonna have to try it. And, like, we have no time. And Ashley's like, okay, I'm gonna be right back.

[Ashley Hess]

I'll be right back.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, this is the focus group.

[Sally Koching]

Totally. You know what is the hardest has been, like, our penis designed toys, because obviously none of us have a penis. So we've had to recruit people.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's the crazier part, is when all of us are on the call talking about our significant other's penis design. That's what's crazy. Okay? You're talking about your boyfriend, your fiance, other actress talking about her husband. It's crazy that we're asking about their penises.

[Sally Koching]

Well, I was single when we were doing the Richard Ring, so that was very stressful because I had to recruit penises in my life, and I wasn't having sex with anybody. So luckily, like every gay man, I took a trip to New York where all my gays were just so they could try it on for me. And I go on a flower first date, and the guy brings up my job. And I'm like, so glad you mentioned this, because I actually have something that we need to try.

[Ashley Hess]

I love that. Okay, well, we have lots to talk about today, but while we're here, because I don't want to forget bringing this up on dates. And you have a boyfriend now, and he's wonderful, and we will get to it, but you've dated plenty prior to him, and even with him, I'm curious, like, when do you bring it up? Do you open with it?

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. You know, it is really tricky. There are two schools of guys. I think the ones who are immediately intimidated by it kind of shut down about it, and they want to be a bit judgmental, and you can just feel them. I'll bring it up on the first date because it is my whole life. Like, if you get in my car, I have samples in the trunk. Like, I'm not gonna be able to keep it a secret from you. You Google my name, it's like the first thing that comes up is, like, me talking about a butt plate. So good luck. So those kind of guys, they weed themselves out, but I have been immediately objectified on a date. Like, in the first 10 minutes, I'll say what I do, and they'll be like, oh, so what do you personally? And I'm like, I don't even know your last name.

[Ashley Hess]

I just.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, this has been my experience as well. I always go back and forth between bring this up or don't bring it up, because people will think of you as you speak about yourself. And the truth is, we self funded a multimillion dollar company. We grew it from the ground up. We did it all by ourselves. We didn't put our name on someone else's product. We did this by ourselves. That is the crux of what we do. I'm an entrepreneur on a date. But you say sex toys and guys take the liberty. A lot of like, over sexualizing you or being playful about it. But I'm also like, well, I don't know, like, what do you expect? It's a playful, fun thing, and people are gonna ask questions and you say, I own a sex toy company, and like, the next questions are gonna be a little more spicy. And so sometimes I'm like, do I bring it up at all? Do I just bring up the podcast? And that's sort of like an afterthought. But you don't have the same opportunity.

[Sally Koching]

I don't have that luxury.

[Ashley Hess]

It is a real filtering system. Remember the guy that ghosted me infamously like, that I met at a show that I crawled the whole.

[Sally Koching]

The thing.

[Raina Greenberg]

The whole thing. I'm not sure if that guy ever existed. I was like, are you okay? No.

[Ashley Hess]

I have a picture of his arm and you know it. Frankie. Little Frankies.

[Raina Greenberg]

Frankie, Frankie.

[Ashley Hess]

They're one of the same. Little Frankie, Little Frankie. We believe you. But I remember having this amazing conversation with him about sex toys. And I've on the inverse had weird ones. And it's like, I think that's just how you know.

[Sally Koching]

Totally.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes. And once I've slept with you, then it's fair game. I don't care. We'll talk about it all the time. I mean, the amount of guys are like, what do you got in the drawer? Let's bring it out. Like, I just finished having sex the other night, and he was like, I want to watch you with a toy. Can you go get one? Like, I was like, we just wrapped. But like, I think that prior to having sex with somebody, I hope for a little tact in class. However, if a man told me they own a sex toy company, I would immediately objectify that.

[Ashley Hess]

Immediately. Why did I just picture the penis model from Sex and the City that Samantha? Didn't she fuck it? He was the dildo model, the biggest dick. He was bald.

[Sally Koching]

I'm trying to remember.

[Ashley Hess]

He used his penis to mold dildos. Like, that's what comes to mind.

[Raina Greenberg]

I would ask that. I would be like, do you ever use your own penis to model the toys?

[Sally Koching]

Oh, okay. Maybe I'm seeing the bad dates I've been on in a new light. Maybe I'm like, maybe they were just curious.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's just a line, and, you know when something. Someone's crossed it and that's all that.

[Ashley Hess]

I can explain it.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, if somebody says, like, how do you develop your products? That's so cool. Like, what are your business meetings like? Like, I can tell when somebody is just treating me like I'm some whore.

[Sally Koching]

Or trying to get you to be talking to them. We're in a restaurant. Yeah. There's an energy because, like, with my current boyfriend, we matched on Raya, and that directly links to your Instagram, so it kind of does the heavy lifting for you because they'll look in my Instagram bio and see this. They're either in or out based on that. And so it's like, I think one of his first questions was like, I think I have an interesting job, but I think yours takes the cake. And so that kind of makes you think, okay, he thinks of this in a positive light. So that was, like, very handy for me. I already knew he was into it, and he was supportive, and, like, he has proven to be that.

[Ashley Hess]

Are you guys the most interesting couple? We're not gonna say who he is.

[Raina Greenberg]

He actually has the most interesting jobs.

[Ashley Hess]

Plenty of people do what he does, right? Not as many people do as Sally does. It's a niche, but together, I'm like, I think they actually are.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, you are. And you both ask so many questions, and you're such a listeners, and you're such yappers. I'm God charming together.

[Sally Koching]

You made me laugh so much. I was listening to the episode where you were like, we know a couple of yappers. We'll see how that goes. I was like, I know exactly who you're talking about.

[Ashley Hess]

So we have a few things to do today. We want to. We want to talk through the new products with Sally briefly and just, you know, give you guys some ins and outs. And then we want to answer your sex toy questions. Then we want to talk about Sally's dating life and her partner and some things like height and strategy, and I don't know where to start.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, yeah, we pulled you guys and we asked, like, what are your taboo sex toy questions? So we are going to get to all of those. How to introduce them to a partner, and desensitization, vibrator addiction, things like that. But we do have a whole line of toys to introduce. But since we're talking about your boyfriend, maybe we just sort of like, wrap that. Like, how did you guys. Your story of how you dated for a while. We met you when you were in a previous relationship that ended. We watched that one end. We watched you date a lot and find this guy and maybe just talking about, like, your experiment for meeting him and how you filtered and things like that.

[Ashley Hess]

We really have been on the journey. I mean, you went through a pretty tough breakup. Someone you lived with, that you saw your future with. And, you know, we were there for it. And, you know, hopefully you felt supported and.

[Sally Koching]

Oh, totally, you know, but we then.

[Ashley Hess]

It was just like Sally's journey.

[Sally Koching]

Well, it is actually so funny the role you guys have played in my dating life. And I was thinking back about it, and I'm like, I think my dating life would be so different if I hadn't been a long time listener. Because, like you said, I went through a breakup where I was kind of blindsided. I didn't really see it coming. Like, it wasn't perfect, but I just was in so much pain after that. And I was thinking about your Amy Chan episode, because I'd recommended it to a friend at the time, and I'm like, I have to listen to that episode. So I listen to the episode and I'm like, that's not enough. I get the book, I listen to the audiobook. And then I actually reached out to Amy because I was like, I don't know how I could ever prevent this from happening again. And that was just off the back of hearing her on your podcast, which is so cool. So I'm like, dating. I'm trying to figure out how to not go through this type of heartbreak again. And I hired her as a bit of a dating coach, and I was telling you guys about this, and she recommended to me to not take it so seriously. Just sort of, like, get a feel for the different types of men that are out there. And she gave me an experiment. And I remember I came to Raina's house. I was telling her about this experiment. It's based on this thing called the secretary problem, which is like, if you're going to hire a secretary, you don't need to interview 100 people. That's like, a lot of time. But if you interview 12 of those candidates, you'll get enough of an idea, and within those 12, you'll get, like, close to the best option, and you can optimize forever for an extra 1%, but actually, within those 12, you'll find your best option. So she gives me this experiment, and I take this very seriously, and I go to Raina's house and I tell her about it.

[Raina Greenberg]

I do want to give people background. Amy Chan has been on our show a few times, and she started with this breakup boot camp. Brand wrote a book, and she's a dating coach. So just to give people a little background, she's a phenomenal dating coach.

[Sally Koching]

And you guys broke it down for me on that episode, so I'm so glad I had it. And then so I go to Raina's house, and I'm telling her about it, and she's like, you probably have, like, a spreadsheet. And I was like. And she was, like, laughing, and I was like, yeah, actually, I do.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, she didn't tell you to do the spreadsheet?

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Sally Koching]

I did it on the back. You know, I'm very organized.

[Ashley Hess]

It's an air table.

[Sally Koching]

Be juggling 12 different guys and get them mixed up, you know?

[Ashley Hess]

Totally.

[Sally Koching]

So Rainer was, like, laughing about it. I'm like, yeah, actually, like, I have columns. Like, I have, like, pros, cons, like, how I feel when I'm with them. Like, you know, their lifestyle, if we're compatible. This type of. And we were just laughing about it.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I like the exercise of just having a log of, like, this is what I liked. This is what I didn't like. I have instant recall. I could tell you all the dates I went on this year, but I don't know, I might let somebody in after six months that, like, I genuinely did not enjoy their company that much. But you forget because you're horny, you know, And I like to keep a long.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, you can.

[Sally Koching]

You can circle back to the spreadsheet.

[Ashley Hess]

But I like that you had to write it down. You had to think about the compatibility, like, you mentioned and the way that they make you feel and write it down. Not that you can't change your mind, but it almost gives some permanence to it and, like, reminds you later when you're like, ugh, but that dick. And it's, like, not compatible.

[Sally Koching]

Not compatible with my lifestyle.

[Raina Greenberg]

Isn't it? So, Sally, though, like, to your credit, and so many people, like, why wouldn't we put as much care into this as we put into our jobs? If you're like, I really, really want to find a partner, why not game it the same way you would game hiring a secretary?

[Sally Koching]

Totally. And I mean, it does sound like I Was very serious and scientific about it. But the experiment really was like, just date, not thinking each person is the one. Just know you've got to date 12 different people 1 at a time. If it doesn't work out, no worries. They're just one of the people on the list. You move on to the next. And that takes a bit of pressure off of this next person has to be my soulmate. It was like I was really dating it with a bit of detachment, finally being like, okay, maybe I'll just see, like, how do I feel around him? Okay, maybe like, you know, a music producer is not compatible to my life, but maybe like a 9 to 5 guy is like, it was just an experiment. And that was like, really fun. Luckily, I actually met someone very early in the experiment, so that kind of saved me a bit of time.

[Ashley Hess]

But it wasn't immediate.

[Sally Koching]

No.

[Ashley Hess]

You continued to date after him and then came back together. Did you hit 12, do you think?

[Sally Koching]

Great question. I think I hit like 809.

[Ashley Hess]

Close. Ish. That's a lot. Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like my sister in law said to me the other day, she was like. I was telling her I just, I never ever want to go on a second date with like so many people. And she was like, what if for every like five to six guys, you promised yourself you'd go on a second date? And I was like, six guys? Six.

[Ashley Hess]

So many. Tell me you haven't been in the game since high school.

[Sally Koching]

You're like, I have two jobs. Six guys.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, well, she's never dated. She met my brother when she was 22 and she doesn't pretend to know anything she's. She's talking about, but she's like, what about for six? I was like, bitch, do you know how hard it is to go on.

[Sally Koching]

Six first dates and then second date? So that's 12.

[Ashley Hess]

Don't go on a second date with that guy that looks like American psycho because you will get murdered. I told Rena. I was like, I want to be on record that this guy is going to really deeply offend you or murder you. I want to be right.

[Raina Greenberg]

That guy's a doctor, though.

[Ashley Hess]

He looks terrified.

[Raina Greenberg]

He does look terrifying.

[Sally Koching]

Oh, yeah. The doctors kind of scare me. I went through a phase.

[Ashley Hess]

I love a doctor, but like a real doctor. Scary American Psycho. That's what it looks like. Okay, so we're just going to take a quick break and then we will get back into it. I am telling you guys about Nutrafol. This is a part of my daily life for years now. I cannot Imagine my life without it. I've talked about how I got this little pill case and I do it through the week so I never miss a day. And this is something that I really rely on. My hair has really changed, honestly, when I went off the pill, right, I mentioned earlier we were talking about birth control a little bit. And so when I went off the pill, it really made my hair thin and shed and just feel and look different. And this is something that I turn to. Nutrafol has a proactive approach to target the root causes of why your hair may be shedding or not as thick as it used to be. And so I take the women's formula. I take four capsules every day. It is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. And you can feel great about what you're putting into your body. Since Nutrafol hair growth supplements are backed by peer reviewed studies and NSF content certified, the gold standard and third party certification for supplements, we just love it. I mean we have used it for years. They've been a partner of us for years and we really stand by them. We met the founder one night at a dinner and you know, we're just really big fans of everything they do. You'll find the formula that works best for you. Just go on their website and you'll figure that out. Women, that's what I take. The women's vegan, the women's balance and postpartum. Of course, we all know that pregnancy and postpartum can really affect your hair, of course. And so you can just figure out what is going on. They'll help you address it. It's super easy to incorporate into your daily routine. You can see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol for a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code GGE10, find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t R A F O L promo code GGE10. That's nutrafold.com, promo code GGE10.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. And fall is in full swing, I guess. So it is the perfect time to polish your wardrobe and get that fall look going. So Quints is my favorite place to do that. You know, Ashley and I have been shopping there for years. We love it. They have so much to just Kind of elevate your wardrobe, look polished, stay warm and save big. I mean, I truly cannot believe the quality of everything on their website. Everything I've ever gotten, I've been so, so thrilled with every. They have all kinds of things to elevate your fall look. They have 100% Mongolian cashmere. Ashley and I have these in so many colors, these sweaters. I have the crew necks. I have it as cardigans. I wear them all winter. I'm obsessed with their bags. They have suede bags and they have like quilted bags. I just, I'm obsessed with their bags.

[Ashley Hess]

They have everything. They have engagement rings.

[Sally Koching]

Get on there.

[Ashley Hess]

Check out their jewelry. No, the sweaters. Like I wear those sweaters. Like I have a bigger, baggier V neck. I feel like I see a lot of people in that one. I wear it around the house. Like I'll wear it with just like lounge pants. Like they're just so cozy and comfy. Like I want to put that on over like a sweatshirt is a sweater.

[Sally Koching]

It's so good.

[Ashley Hess]

It's so good. It's so. And it's so cute.

[Raina Greenberg]

And Quint's only partners directly with ethical top tiered factories to cut out the middleman. You guys can keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com GGE for free shipping on your order and 365 day of returns. That's, that's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com GGE to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com GGE okay, so share as much as you want.

[Sally Koching]

Sure.

[Ashley Hess]

But in terms of like you guys, the timing wasn't right at first and you came back together. Whatever you want to share.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean like I had been single for six months at this point, so I wasn't ready for a boyfriend. Our work was really busy at the time. So I was like, I'm just married to my job right now. I want to focus on that. I'll do this experiment running in the background. So I was not looking for my forever person at that point. And so I was on Raya. I matched with this very cute man. A man, by the way, because I had been dating a very young person previously and this guy is like a full grown man.

[Raina Greenberg]

Your last boyfriend 10 years younger than you?

[Sally Koching]

Oh, he was like six years younger than me. Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

He seemed like he was 10 years younger than you. And then the current one is how much older?

[Sally Koching]

14. Years older.

[Raina Greenberg]

You really swung in the other direction.

[Ashley Hess]

How old is Sally?

[Raina Greenberg]

Wait, let me guess.

[Sally Koching]

You're 34 and he's turning 48 this year.

[Raina Greenberg]

He is, huh?

[Sally Koching]

I know. It's. It's those genetics.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I know.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Sally Koching]

He looks so good. And he's such a, like, playful, like, super energy. Totally sexier to me now.

[Ashley Hess]

He's almost 50.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, cute. We love Sally's boyfriend. I mean, he might be my favorite boyfriend.

[Sally Koching]

Oh, that's so sweet.

[Ashley Hess]

So, like, we met you guys when I went with my fiance on a trip. And the first time we met him, it was actually randomly in Vancouver. You guys were both there, and I asked my fiance, like, later in the trip, what's been your favorite part of the trip? And he said meeting him. And he just kind of caught me at a weird moment, and I didn't like it.

[Raina Greenberg]

No one would like that.

[Ashley Hess]

And it kind of ruined our dinner. But he said he was joking. I never told you.

[Raina Greenberg]

I like how he tried to walk it back like he was kidding.

[Sally Koching]

Why don't you just date him then?

[Raina Greenberg]

This whole trip you planned, he said the favorite thing was being Sally's boyfriend.

[Sally Koching]

I better watch my man.

[Ashley Hess]

Are you so desperate for male connection?

[Raina Greenberg]

Wait, no, I want to talk about this for one second. Because your fiance. Men love him, and he connects with men and. Okay, so one of our friends broke up with her boyfriend, and he unfollowed and removed us all as followers. All of our friends, except for Ashley. Fiance. He's the only one.

[Sally Koching]

I get it. He's cool.

[Raina Greenberg]

He's just like, maybe he forgot, but I don't think so because he remembered some random shit.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, he's like, I'm gonna keep him.

[Ashley Hess]

He was good on rail. But, yeah, we had the best double date.

[Sally Koching]

And it was so fun. And so even at the time, like. Like when we first match and we went on our first date, like, he was actually going through processing the grief of his previous partner he was with at the time she passed away. And so he was like, you know, quite soon after that. It was like half a year after that, and he was like, I just want to feel something. I just want to feel hope that maybe one day I could, like, make this happen for me. Like, because he's very romantic and, you know, everything that comes with that. Like, my sister lost her husband, and I just. I knew that she had so much love. It didn't disappear when he passed away. She still wanted to, like, love someone and build something with someone, but it's like, you go through so many different stages, and you don't feel ready. And I just had a lot of compassion for him because I'd seen my sister go through it. He told me, like, straight away, before we even went on a date. And I just was like, sure. Like, you know, I'm not looking for anything serious. This is no pressure. So we go on this date, and I just remember thinking, like, oh, my God, I want to kiss this man. And I don't know about you guys, but, like, I never think that on a date.

[Ashley Hess]

Like, I'm like, ooh, unless you do. It's like, you don't. Yeah, you either do or you're right.

[Raina Greenberg]

If it doesn't come up for me, it's never gonna come up for me.

[Ashley Hess]

It is rare.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, it is rare for me. And so I just thought he was, like, so positive and warm, even though he was, like, in pain. And I just said to him, like, hey, I'm not looking for anything serious. He's like, definitely me either. And we're like, cool. So, like, let's just have a bit of a hookup. So we hooked up a couple of times on and off, and, like, you know, would go, like, a few weeks. I wouldn't hear from him. We would just stay in touch. And I was doing my dating experiment, and he was like, number three. And I knew he was so not my person, by the way, because he was emotionally unavailable that I told him about the experiment. I'm like, this is my buddy.

[Ashley Hess]

This is my fuck buddy. Yeah.

[Sally Koching]

I was like, hey, pal, you're number three, FYI.

[Raina Greenberg]

But you read the situation for what it was. A person told you, I'm not ready to be in a relationship, and you believed them?

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, I had no delusions. Like, oh, he just needs to meet the right person. So I'm like, you know, out there going on dates, and he's still talking to me. And for me, he just, like. He created a new benchmark. The way he treated me, even as a situationship with no strings, he was so thoughtful, so respectful, so positive, and just really present. And even though he wasn't in love with me, he was very loving. And I just. When I would go on these other dates, I'm like, oh, they don't really stack up to that guy. And so. But I was like, oh, damn, he's really not ready. And it got to a point where he was, like, sort of acting like my boyfriend, and we spent a lot of time together, and I just said, like, hey, I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm getting too attached. And I know you're not available. I'm not going to try change a man. I know you're not available. So, like, I just. We need to put this on pause. And so we took a little break, and we just really missed each other. So he's like, you know, I've given it some thought, and I really want to try it. And I'm like, okay, I'm probably gonna get my heart broken, but I can't let this man go. So we tried it. A couple of things came up. When you're dealing with grief, it's very up and down, and there were just some things that came up for him, and he just really wasn't ready. And even though I was so sad, I couldn't be mad at him about it. And it takes a lot. And honestly, Amy Chan's coaching was great because she was like, if you really care about this person, it's not about you. You just want to make sure your friend is okay.

[Ashley Hess]

You heal with time. This isn't. You said you don't want to change him. It's not even that. It's like, you don't want to force a timeline who. No one ever knows what it will be, and grief is not linear, and no one can be sure. So it just. That was the issue at hand.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. And I thought, you know, it might be five years until he's ready. I can't hold out hope. And so, you know, like, we had a bit of on again, off again, and it wasn't like, you know, I was seeing other people at the time or he was seeing other people. None of those dynamics came into play, thank God, because that makes it even harder and more confusing. But it was just like, he wasn't ready. So I just gave him space and time and support as a friend, and we are actually finally official, and we're really giving it a go. And, like, you know, the grief never goes away. He's not trying to replace somebody, and, like, we definitely honor her, but at the same time, he deserves to be happy and, you know, not live with that sorrow forever.

[Ashley Hess]

You're just.

[Raina Greenberg]

You're really patient and kind with him. And I. I remember saying to you, you were in London with him for a little bit. I met up with you, and you were telling me some things he was saying. And I remember saying, like, I don't think he wants to be like this. I don't think he wants to keep bringing this stuff up and feeling like this. And I really have faith in him. That he tried his and you were very kind and patient. And I think that what you're saying is like, way easier said than done. Like, give somebody time and space and hopefully they come back to me. Like, that would make me feel crazy. But like, you're like a living example of like, that you can do it and it can happen and life is long and you gave him some space. And the alternative would be like to be angry or not show up with compassion and then you probably won't get the person back.

[Sally Koching]

Totally. That's the thing. Life is long. And I just thought like, this is such a good person, he deserves to be happy. I don't know if this is gonna be our story, but also, like, you know, there are other people out there. I'll probably find someone eventually. I'll keep going with my experiment. And I just thought, like, if we're meant to be together, like, it will work out. But oh my God, I was so sad. I was like crying all the time. So don't think I was like, so cool and chill about it.

[Ashley Hess]

But you guys were mentioning meant to be together, I don't know, forever, but you just were like, it just was a timing thing. And like you said, he wasn't dating other people. This wasn't like a he's not ready to commit thing. Because I don't. Someone's gonna twist our words and be like, oh, it's so worth waiting around. We're like, we're talking about grief here.

[Sally Koching]

It's a very specific thing. He had exhibited the fact that he could be in a committed relationship before, which is a big thing. Whereas we've all dated non committal avoidant fuckboys who are like, I'm just not sure I'm ready, like, don't wait around forever for those guys. But this was a definite, like, specific example.

[Ashley Hess]

Andy was being honest totally.

[Sally Koching]

The whole time. The whole time.

[Ashley Hess]

And we love him, so he is a shorter king.

[Sally Koching]

He certainly is.

[Ashley Hess]

And we obviously asked if we could discuss this with you. You've posted about this before.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, I am very passionate about this.

[Ashley Hess]

And this. I was watching this clip. It was actually Logan Urie, who we've had on a few times and she's a data scientist at Hinge and Dating Relationship coach. And she's phenomenal. And she was speaking with Liz Moody, who we did a pod swap with recently, and they were talking about how women are discounting men because of a six foot filter, which we'll share our feelings on a six foot filter. But they mentioned the six o' Hire.

[Raina Greenberg]

Grow up and date an adult.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Sally Koching]

Oh my God, Raina.

[Ashley Hess]

So roughly estimated 14 and a half percent of men in the US are over six feet. You are discounting 85 and a half. Look at me doing math. Percent of the population because they're not over six feet.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's wild. And then within that percent. Have you ever seen somebody spill all like a. Like a bunch of skittles on a table and say, like, take this away for like age body mass index. If you want somebody to look a certain way, a certain money, amount of money that they make, what profession, where do they live, like all. Do they want kids or not?

[Sally Koching]

You're down to nobody you think about. Then they go baggage. They might have ex wives, like, right?

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, so many people won't date a person with children or ex wives. I don't suffer from that. I'm a big fan of divorce guys. But you're filtering out the whole world.

[Sally Koching]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

And if you're really tall, I get it, but it's crazy because I'm 5 10, but I didn't even do this. Like, yeah, I don't want a super short guy, but it matters to me. I'm not gonna lie. And I'm trending lightly here. Cause my fiance is six' three. But. But the guys I've dated before 5 11, 5 10, I've always wanted someone my height or taller. But the six foot filter for women who especially who are smaller is kind of beyond my comprehension. And you're welcome to do whatever you want, but you could really be filtering out some great guys. And you. I think this is when you hear women say, like, I never would have swiped on him, but yet here they are with him in real life.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I mean, I like what I like. And if I were to build a man, if I were to pay a dating coach, go for find me this exact thing. I guess you can ask for whatever you want. If I were to build a man, he'd be 6:2. That's what I like that from across a room, that's what I would want to walk up to at a bar.

[Ashley Hess]

Over a foot taller than you.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I like that. That's nice for me. But what I really like, I use this dating app field a lot. And you can't filter for height. People put it in their dating profile a lot, but it's not something you can filter for. And I find myself talking to so many more people because I'm not looking at a certain height or employment level. So I'm just like, is this Person cute and do I like talking to them? And that's what I scan for.

[Sally Koching]

I love this so much because my thing is, like, if you talk about it, like, I've got my spreadsheets, and I'm seeing it like a bit of an experiment. I'm like, why would I compete with every woman in this country? There's girls who are hotter than me, more successful, more connected. No, like, why would I compete with them for people over 6 foot? Like, that just sounds, like, really hard.

[Raina Greenberg]

Wait, I love this. You're like, they want the high road. I go low.

[Ashley Hess]

But to your point, even if you thought 50, 50% of women are doing it, they're competing for 14% of men on top of all the other.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, I'm already gonna lose.

[Raina Greenberg]

Scott Galloway said on our show that something like, every. Every woman on a dating app is going after 5% of the men on that dating app.

[Sally Koching]

That's crazy. I'm not interested in that game. That just sounds really hard to me. And my thing is, like, just for me, I've never really been attracted to people who are over six foot because I'm like, five, two and a half, five, three. For me, I'm like, they're so big. Like, their limbs get in the way, and they're always like, their knees are up. In my business, like, for me, it's not very elegant. I want people who are, like, my size, so we fit together. Well, good sex. Totally. The best sex I've had is definitely not with anyone over 6 foot.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean, I think. And obviously Raina disagrees based on what she's looking for, but I do think. Think it's good when you were matched up sorta. Otherwise, you're one on top of this guy. He's got three feet of legs hanging off your body.

[Raina Greenberg]

I like it.

[Sally Koching]

I'm afraid they're gonna suffocate me. They're so big also, that.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

But, you know, when you think about what you describe in a person that you're dating that you love about them, their looks might come up. Sure. At five things down the road. But, like, when I really think, what do I love about my previous partners? The way they look is so far down the list. Like, I would. And he's tall would never come up for me.

[Sally Koching]

Totally. And that's the thing. After my breakup, I wasn't like, oh, I wish he was shorter or taller. Like, that was so not the reason I was heartbroken. It was because of all these other incompatibilities. And so my thing was, like, I'm optimizing for kindness. Are they diligent? Do they conscientiously work hard? Do they care about me? Are they romantic? Do they make me laugh? Are they great in bed? All these things. And none of that was like, oh, but he has to be like extremely tall, taller than me. That's all I need, right?

[Ashley Hess]

I agree. And I think you probably have a lot of women out there who can speak to being with a man who was maybe not their ideal height, but they met them still, maybe in the wild or wherever, and they shudder to think if they hadn't, you know, like, it could make them just die to think if they hadn't met this person that they're so in love with because they had a filter set on a dating app. Totally.

[Sally Koching]

And like, my thing is, I was thinking about this, I'm like, okay, so who are the hottest men objectively in society right now? And it's like, okay, Brad Pitt, he's not six foot, he's five' eleven. George Clooney, five' ten. So imagine like you've got George Clooney's career, success, he's good looking. Like, maybe he's not a famous movie star, but he's like a really good lawyer and he's a really good family guy, but he's five' ten. And you've never even got the chance to meet this guy because you're filter was, was stopping you. That just makes me sad. I'm like, there are hot men under six feet, obviously.

[Ashley Hess]

And again, it's not a rule across the board, but if you've just had everything your whole life because you're tall and good looking and white and athletic, whatever it may be.

[Sally Koching]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

You're. You probably are not the greatest person you could be, but you haven't dealt with a lot of adversity in your life. And we've talked about this before. I mean, guys that are shorter have had to try a little bit harder to have a personality, to be respected.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, it's just, it's a thing. They really have had to like, have a personality.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, well, I actually think there's like an empathy element to it too. Because if life isn't easy for them, they actually understand more what it's like to be a woman because, like, you know, we have to compete for jobs harder. We're overlooked for certain things. And like, so are shorter guys. So maybe they actually understand and have more empathy. I'm not saying all of them, but like, I do see it as a common trait in shorter Guys that they have more empathy for what it's like to be a woman, which is awesome. This is what I look for.

[Ashley Hess]

They're gonna hate that line. Shorter guys, they just understand what it's.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like to be a woman because they're our height.

[Sally Koching]

They're petite and dainty.

[Ashley Hess]

We just want to talk about with you.

[Sally Koching]

Classic.

[Ashley Hess]

You know, it's just like, do whatever you want, but you could be missing out.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

That's unfortunate.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. I mean, like, Paul Rudd to me was like my ultimate guy. A lot of people's ultimate guy. And he's five nine. I'm not saying no to Paul Rudd just because he's 5 9.

[Ashley Hess]

100%.

[Raina Greenberg]

These actors are little. I used to meet them all. They used to come into quality meets where I worked in New York and we get a lot of celebrities. Was next to the Plaza Hotel and all of them. Zac Efron walked in. Just little Zac Efron. All these people.

[Sally Koching]

And he's hot. Let's be honest.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, the hottest.

[Sally Koching]

And I mean in Ja Rule.

[Ashley Hess]

Ja Rule.

[Sally Koching]

So wait, would you ever date Zac Efron?

[Raina Greenberg]

Fuck yeah. I'm in love with Chuck Bass.

[Ashley Hess]

Chuck Bass, your Ex is probably 5'10, 5'11.

[Raina Greenberg]

My most previous one.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, and he felt tall to me.

[Sally Koching]

So this is the thing. Like the preference of six' two. I think it's a nice to have, but I definitely think don't set your feelings on a need to have. Totally.

[Raina Greenberg]

But I mean, I like, even just the competition strategy, why would I want to be in the bullpen with every woman on earth competing for a thing?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, well, Nikki Glaser says that you get a hot guy to discount. Her boyfriend is on the shorter side. I think when she wears heels, he's shorter than her.

[Sally Koching]

Amazing.

[Ashley Hess]

And she's talked about it for years. Like, that's how you get the hottest guy.

[Sally Koching]

Right.

[Raina Greenberg]

The problem is when they're not nice too. And you're like, how dare you? I picked you because you were little and I thought you'd have to ask.

[Ashley Hess]

That's so true.

[Sally Koching]

That's how I felt about ugly guys.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes, Ugly guys. You broke guys. You're like, you were supposed to treat me well.

[Sally Koching]

Totally.

[Raina Greenberg]

Nothing going for you.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, and to Sally's point, like, sometimes they are way more respectful and kinder. But on the other hand, sometimes they literally hate all women, especially tall women.

[Raina Greenberg]

You're like, I did charity work because I thought this would be easier for me. And look where it got me.

[Sally Koching]

Let it be known short kings Are not charity work. I said it here today.

[Raina Greenberg]

I know.

[Ashley Hess]

No. The audacity of a short guy to be an asshole, though. And that's most of the guys in Boston. If you really are looking for one, if you really are looking for a short asshole, that's the capital.

[Sally Koching]

Hilarious. That used to be my type.

[Raina Greenberg]

When I see a short guy mouthing off somebody, I'm like, who do you think you are down there talking to somebody like that? Get on a step stool, come back.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, did you see Materialists?

[Sally Koching]

Yes.

[Ashley Hess]

That was a huge theme of it, and we can talk about it now because we don't want to give it away. But literally, men getting the surgery to be taller.

[Sally Koching]

That was really shocking to me. I mean, like, how would you guys feel if you had been in that situation and you went on a date with guy and you're, like, in bed with him and you see his, like, knee scars?

[Raina Greenberg]

I couldn't care less.

[Sally Koching]

She's like, well, he's 6:2, so I.

[Raina Greenberg]

Don'T care because, like, you've already baked the cake. Like, I'm just getting the cake. But I have empathy for a man that would go through that and would put themselves through a surgery like that. Because I think that, like, if you really read what it feels like to be a man, and, like, all jokes aside, like, you are less respected in professional settings. Sometimes it's even me, like, I'm short. I feel like I need to be bigger, to be, like, listened to, to be respected. I'm not the same physical size as other people. I look little. And I have felt that my whole life. When I would manage this restaurant, I was the youngest manager, and I would wear these high heels. I would be in crippling pain until the point that I thought I was gonna throw up at the end of the night. And I couldn't take them off because everybody was bigger than me. And I just felt physically like I didn't command a room the same way. So, anyways, I feel for a man that feels like they have to go through that to be, like, respected and fucked in this world.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Like, the overcorrection is clearly Jeff Bezos and men like that who their whole lives have felt like that and have just turned into, like, the most successful prick in the world. But, I mean, I have another comedian friend. I'm glad you put it back on yourself, too, in terms of women also. And she feels the same way, and she feels like she needs to be, I don't know, more assertive and just kind of overcompensate. Because she's not taken as seriously. And she also just feels like she's so over people bringing up her height. You're so small. Like, it's just I. I know people.

[Raina Greenberg]

Bring it up to me constantly.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

I notice my body language in groups of people where I'm leaning forward more to be, like, heard or I'm being louder. And I. I feel really confident. But I even noticed that, like, somebody like Ashley can sit back a little more because you're a foot taller than I am.

[Ashley Hess]

But we all have insecurities, obviously. And, like, I love my height now, but, I mean, years of my life were just, like, crying myself to sleep because I was so tall and taller than all the boys. And my feet were so big. And all I wanted to do was be five five, you know, I want to go back to the question about the men having the surgery. It's just. I don't know. I think it would be a little hypocritical for me. I've had my nose done, you know, Like, I've made changes to my appearance to look better. I think it's different surgery, and it's so intense.

[Sally Koching]

It's more life threatening.

[Ashley Hess]

Life threatening. So they're not really comparable, but it would feel a little hypocritical.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, I don't judge it at all. I can't imagine what you've gone through as a person. Feeling like that every day of your life. Wanting to change your appearance so badly and feeling like this is the only thing people see of me again, to put on my. I had like F sized boobs. It was the only thing people saw of me. And yeah, I got a lot of fucking attention from it. It was mostly positive, but, like, what if it was a ton of attention and all of it was bad, you know? So I. I get it. I get wanting to do it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. Okay.

[Sally Koching]

Sex toys.

[Ashley Hess]

Let's talk about our new products for fall. They are different stuff we have never done before. And we have been teasing and we are obsessed. And we know you guys are gonna be too.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. So, Sal, you help us to develop new stuff. What holes do we have in the collection that we need to fill? And what would be exciting? What are people asking for? So we have three new products for you guys. We have a new toy, a new liquid, and a new accoutrement. You want to start with the toy?

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, let's start with the toy.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. So we have a new toy. It is perfect for partner play and solo. I cannot stop using it. You guys probably shouldn't touch this. I use it a lot. So this toy is called the Farah Finger Vibe. And it is a toy that you wear on your finger. And it literally mimics the shape of your finger, but it vibrates. And we're gonna talk about vibrator addiction and switching up the type of stimulus that you have on yourself. But I really like these air pulse vibrators that we sell. And this is totally different. Cause it's not air pulse. It's just silicone, and it's a deep, rumbling vibration.

[Ashley Hess]

It's a lot of power for a petite package. And we were thinking. Cause we have the Lucy Bullet, which we've had different sleeves on throughout the years, and we've had a finger sleeve on it before. And that's what got the conversation started. Like, what we. If we created a vibrator that was all in one and not two different parts. And people loved the Lucy finger sleeve. And I used this recently. This is mostly what I bring on when I'm traveling. And I was just like, God, our toys are so good.

[Sally Koching]

That.

[Ashley Hess]

They're just so good. They feel so good. I don't know any other vibrators that are as soft and silky as ours. And it's so important to us that they feel like that on your body. One of the reasons we wanted to start this company in the first place was because we were using toys that were like, these hurt my body. Like, why is this so hard?

[Raina Greenberg]

Rock hard.

[Ashley Hess]

Why is this feel so cheap? And why is the box so shitty? And so I just love the way this feels. We always do these, like, little ridges for extra stimulation. And the finger loop. I mean, obviously, I have a petite, tiny little finger. So does Raina. But a big hand can get in here too, so you can wear it. If we're talking to women with, you know, traditionally smaller hands. And, like, a big man can stick this on too. It's stretchy and silicone.

[Raina Greenberg]

Stretchy, yes. And it forms to the shape of your finger, and it extends a little further than that. It. It's really comfortable to wear, and I love it for solo play, but a partner. This would be, I think, my favorite toy that we sell. Now, if you're doing doggy and you want somebody to reach around and touch your clit and stimulate it, because it's really hard for somebody to hit those nerve endings from behind. And so a man or a woman, whoever is behind you, can very easily use this on your clitoris while they are going to town. And they don't have to hold anything Slips like it just stays on their finger.

[Ashley Hess]

Put it on early and just have it.

[Sally Koching]

You could be making out with this on.

[Ashley Hess]

It hasn't touched. You know, put it on like a condom. Early. Early days, you're ready whenever. Like again, you don't have to be holding something and have one hand that you can't use.

[Raina Greenberg]

So this is our newest toy. You guys will love it. For solo Play Partner play. It comes in these gorgeous high end luxury boxes. So if you want to gift it to somebody, also a perfect gift. And we'll talk about how to bring toys into the bedroom in a little bit.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay. And let's talk about we're going to save the best for last. I mean, we love them all, but you guys, you'll see we don't have favorites. Yeah, we have favorites, but we do. So let's talk about the glow below.

[Sally Koching]

Yes. Okay.

[Ashley Hess]

This was your idea.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. This one I have been championing for, for a long time because, like, I am really obsessed with skin care. I think about it a lot. You just said I'm afraid of the sun. So I'm always thinking about like what I'm putting on my skin. And for me, like I was doing, you know, four step skincare routine, etc. But like for my pussy, I was scooping a coconut oil tub out and wiping it on myself. And I'm like, this is insane. There has to be a better option. And it's like I'm really sensitive. If I put on a lotion that has 20 different ingredients that's meant for your feet and your hands, I don't want to put that near me because I could get irritated, I could get a uti. So I spent a lot of time and we were talking a lot about this in terms of what we liked. And we love the content coconut oil as a great moisturizer. But we want something that is like skin care every day that you can use. Because like I use this every single day. Because I get out of the shower, I'm in California, there's hard water, I'm like really dry. My skin all over my body is dry. And I needed something that was like safe to put on my vulva, that could get inside of me a little bit. And like, you know, I'm not allergic to it. It's not going to irritate anything. And also, like, I have gotten so many compliments now on how silky smooth she is, which is very important.

[Ashley Hess]

Dolphin down there.

[Raina Greenberg]

And we have a water based lube that we sell that you can have sex with. Obviously. And so this is gonna be a different type of product. Cause it's thicker and it's oil.

[Sally Koching]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

So it is our glow below intimate moisturizing oil. It can be used internally, so totally. You can use it to reduce friction, of course.

[Sally Koching]

Totally. Just like with a partner, like you want a bit of slip and slide, you want some glide. It lasts for a long time because it's oil. And then like afterwards you don't have to like have a shower and clean it all off. You can just like moisturize it into your skin.

[Raina Greenberg]

Some people need a thicker oil in general also because of going through menopause. We've heard from people who have been treated for cancer and have gone into menopause early that they need just a little bit of extra help that a water based lube which gets absorbed into your body quicker can't really take care of.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. And I remember I was getting a bikini wax one time and she was like, your vulva is so dry. I was like, what? And like to hear that she meant like the skin. She wasn't like. She wasn't.

[Sally Koching]

She wasn't inside you?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, she wasn't inside me, but I was like, oh my God. Okay. I mean, I have dry skin as well. Yeah. But I was like, noted.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. Thanks so much.

[Ashley Hess]

Let me start slathering up my. But it's skin.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I mean I. I do a full skincare routine when I get out of the shower.

[Ashley Hess]

And I don't think to do that. Yeah, I'll swipe a lotion on it. But like also to Sally's point, I mean, I use really clean products when I can. Not everybody does. Your lotion probably is fragrance in it. It probably has stuff in it that you don't want in your pussy. And so this, I really love that it pulls double duty as your moisturizer day to day and also can be used internally and during sex with a partner.

[Sally Koching]

And that's the thing. There's an ingredient in there called sea buckthorn oil, which is actually really good for paramenopausal dryness. Postmenopausal dryness. It actually like helps to hydrate and nourish. Not just like when you put it on, but throughout the day as you're wearing it. And so things like this used over time can actually help improve, you know, the look, feel internally as well.

[Raina Greenberg]

And just to wrap that out, the packaging, really high end and beautiful. And so you can feel excited to have that out on your counter or in a cabinet. It doesn't say like Fuck oil. You know, which is fine if it did.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. Which we will be coming out with.

[Ashley Hess]

Which the fuck oil is dropping.

[Raina Greenberg]

Q1 check back on Valentine's Day.

[Sally Koching]

Plastic buck oil.

[Ashley Hess]

What did I want to call something one time? Oh my God.

[Raina Greenberg]

Suck sauce.

[Ashley Hess]

I will never forget. Not the immediate recall.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I was sitting on my mom's porch and we were trying to figure out what to call the new packaging for the second blow gel. And Ashley's like, suck sauce.

[Ashley Hess]

Is it too much like duck sauce?

[Sally Koching]

It's close to duck sauce. It's ketchup.

[Ashley Hess]

I feel like this would be good for barstool.

[Raina Greenberg]

Let's market it to the barstool audience. Yes.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Sally Koching]

Last final. Yes. Here we have our very first sex. Next pillow. This is the play pillow. Super exciting. This took us a long time. Yes. Because like, you know, there are so many shapes out there. We, I, we had to test a lot. I remember I showed up to Raina's house with like eight giant pillows and.

[Raina Greenberg]

She'S body sized pillow.

[Ashley Hess]

You brought one to her birthday dinner. And I took it home and used it that night.

[Sally Koching]

And we thank you for putting your body on the line for us. But Raina was like, this is out of control. And there are some really big pillows.

[Raina Greenberg]

So the purpose of a sex pillow, if you've seen them or not, is basically so that you and your partner can put your body in different positions during sex. Whether you have like, honestly, like hip pain or if you want to elevate your hole or your butthole or whatever.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. If you want to bend over it. Obviously like we use this in quote unquote missionary, but it doesn't feel like missionary.

[Sally Koching]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

This is the thing.

[Sally Koching]

Like, no, I guess he was standing.

[Ashley Hess]

Whatever we did, it was short lived. I mean we have a great for you, we have a great sex life. But he loves it.

[Sally Koching]

It got him going.

[Ashley Hess]

He was able to get this angle. Yes.

[Sally Koching]

It's all about the angle penetration.

[Raina Greenberg]

Totally. So if you guys aren't watching it, it is wedge shaped and it's meant to go under basically your buttocks and it'll just lift that hole up. So yeah, actually if somebody's standing and you're laying on the edge of the.

[Ashley Hess]

Bed, I think that that would like.

[Sally Koching]

That is the dream position for this thing. But it truly can do so much. I mean, for me, like I have have kind of a soft bed and I have kind of a soft couch. So like if I'm doing missionary, I'm like sinking into the bed and I can't get enough of an angle and then I gotta try put a pillow under me, but then the pillow goes flat. And this is actually designed to hold its shape. It compresses a little bit so it's comfortable, but it really keeps that angle. And it helps you reach all different types of variations of missionary. Because, like, missionary can get a little stale.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes. And it's called a pillow, but it is like a foam wedge. So it is dense. It's not going to just crush under.

[Sally Koching]

The weight of your body. Totally. It's like the highest quality wedge that you can get. One great thing about this too is it's like if your guy's going down on you and you're straddling him and you're like on your knees, you can actually put this under your knees and it helps you get a little height. He can put his head on the lower part of it. And it just means you can be higher above him. You're not going to actually smother him, which, you know, sometimes I can be a little afraid of.

[Ashley Hess]

Love that. And we will be posting more info, of course, on social media. And then we have a great manual you guys will get with some illustrations, which was really fun.

[Sally Koching]

We're doing the illustrations at the moment. Very spicy. But the COVID as well is like, it can get wet. It's washable. And then there's a waterproof liner underneath as well. So to protect the pillow. So we got you covered.

[Ashley Hess]

And the color is stunning.

[Raina Greenberg]

A beautiful green. It's really high end. It's velvet. And it's another thing you can leave out if you need to just put on your bed.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, I had to walk up the street carrying this thing today and no one would have known. It just looks like I'm going to a sleep.

[Raina Greenberg]

Take it to work with you.

[Sally Koching]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

You can still work. You're like, that's for my lumbar.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, exactly. Lumber support.

[Raina Greenberg]

So, you guys, this is all out now and you guys can shop [e-mail] Improve your sex life, you know, all fall long. We're really excited to bring these to you guys. So thank you for your support as always. We hope you love them.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes. The Farah Finger Vibe. The Glow Below Intimate Moisturizing Oil. And the Play Pillow.

[Raina Greenberg]

Have at it.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay, let's wrap with some questions.

[Sally Koching]

Yes.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. So we asked our audience what sex toy questions you have, but there's a couple things, like always. It just always came up over and over again. So I think maybe we start with people said can using a vibrator too much cause me to have, essentially, vibrator addiction to overstimulate my clitoris to the point that sexual does not feel good. And how can I avoid that type of thing?

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, I mean, I get this question a lot. Like, people are like, oh, my God, like, I'm addicted to a vibrator. I can't get off any other way. And my response is like, you really have to think about using a sex toy, any sex toy, as, like, it's part of a workout routine, like, your whole life. You wouldn't just do, like, the same five exercises. So you really have to, like, mix things up. And so if you use a vibrating toy lying on your back, usually, why don't you mix things up by using an air pulse or a suction toy and lying on your stomach? Try different positions to make sure your brain can also enjoy pleasure and reach orgasm from doing different things. Otherwise, your partner is just gonna have to lie there while you're like, hang on a second. I need to do my one thing that always gets me off. So it really is your responsibility to mix it up. Go manual mode from time to time.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, that's the thing. I mean, we care about you guys ultimately. We're not just always just trying to sell you something. And so we encourage you to use your fingers sometimes to. To mix it up.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

And really turn yourself on and try to get yourself lubricated. And don't just go in dry with a vibrator because, you know, you'll come in 30 seconds.

[Raina Greenberg]

I can.

[Ashley Hess]

I do it all the time.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

You know, but sometimes I'm like, I can't become reliant on this. And some of this is also mental, too. Like, people are asking, am I addicted? Are you? You have to ask yourself that.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. You know, you can train your brain to get so used to one thing that it really is your responsibility to retrain it, too. So just mixing things up. And, like, even if it's grinding against something, instead of using a toy or direct simulation, the pillow is a great idea. Oh, my God, I love that you could grind up on the edge of that thing. It's elevated. The edge of a kitchen, couch, you know, an armchair. Just when I leave.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. But, you know, sex with a partner, like, don't expect it to feel the same as a vibrator. Some people say, like, I can come really fast by myself, and it takes 20 minutes with a partner, and that's okay. You're gonna know your body better than anybody. Of course you're gonna be able make yourself come faster than anyone. And direct clitoral stimulation. No other factors of. How do I look? Am I making them feel good? Obviously, you're gonna get there quicker, but I do what you're saying. I. My favorite toy that we sell is called the Debbie. It is an airpulse vibe. It is a big hole. It's a suction vibrator. I love it. But I often switch off to the farah with just the vibration or just my regular finger is Because I don't like getting too used to one type of stimulation.

[Sally Koching]

Totally.

[Raina Greenberg]

And it's okay to feel like it takes a little longer with my partner. And you had, like, a really good pizza.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. I think it's like, is the goal of sex to just come as fast as. As possible? Like, I hate when I'm having sex with someone and they're like, you have to come. It's like, I just want to enjoy 20 minutes of, like, playing with my partner. And, like, why is it all about the end goal? Instead of just like, let's just spend time together, let's play like. It doesn't have to be about, I must climax immediately.

[Ashley Hess]

And we had Matthew Broussard on a few months ago, a comedian, and he was wonderful. And he talked about his now wife, and she really can't come without a vibrator. And that's okay too. And it sounds like they have tried everything. And I don't. Certainly don't think it came from some sort of vibrator, quote, unquote addiction. And that's what they got going on. And they use toys, and that's fine too.

[Sally Koching]

We have plenty of thing. Yeah, they help you get to know what you enjoy without the pressure of having someone else in the room. So for me, I feel like they're a great tool to help you get to know your body on your own time first. And then you can include a partner in that.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, that brings us to our next question. Probably the number one thing we got was, how do I tell my partner I want to use a toy in the bedroom? And when to introduce this with a new partner versus an existing partner? Because that's probably the trickiest thing, is I've been with my partner for a couple years. Things have maybe gone a little stale, or I'm really having trouble climaxing. And how do I bring this up in a way that doesn't, one, insult them, two, intimidate them and make them feel like I don't think our sex life is good enough?

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. In my opinion, I think I'VE never had any success with a guy if I've made him feel like he's inadequate in some way. So if I want to introduce toys in a relationship, even if it's at the start or if it's after a few years, you kind of want to make it fun for them as well. You don't want to position it, like, they have some deficit and they're not fulfilling your needs. You've got to make sure that they feel like, babe, you are amazing. I always feel, like, so good and so satisfied with you. Wouldn't this be fun to try? Or, like, have you ever thought about trying with a sex toy? And, like, you don't have to just whip it out in the bedroom. You could kind of like, test the water first. Talk about it on date night over dinner, like, hey, do you want to, like, try something fun and, like, get a little spicy? And it has nothing to do with his performance in bed or your partner's performance. And it's just about, like, let's mix things up. You want to just try this? And, like, sometimes you have to ask a couple times a couple different ways.

[Ashley Hess]

Like, we're on this journey together. This is us making our sex life hotter.

[Sally Koching]

Totally. It's not about anything you're doing wrong. Like, I think you're incredible. Let's just, like, you know, try something. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you don't. It's cool if you don't like it. Make sure there's, like, no pressure on them either way. But, like, it's fun to explore. Like, maybe it feels good to, like, use the Farah, like, tickling his balls. It's not just about. It has to be on your clit, you know, like, you can really, like, include them. Run it up their inner thigh. Like, put it on their perineum. Like, that will feel good for them, too. It's not just about your clit.

[Raina Greenberg]

I like that they will enjoy this, too. And also, this is not replacing you. This is in addition to our.

[Ashley Hess]

It's your sous chef. Why do you hate your sous chef?

[Raina Greenberg]

I think that people are worried about intimidating their partner. And unfortunately, size has to do with that sometimes. And so the Farah that I'm holding on my finger, I think is great because it just mimics your finger. It's not some giant thing.

[Sally Koching]

It's like a bionic finger. It's just an extension of your finger. It's just making your finger be able to vibrate. That's awesome. It has nothing to do with, like, the size of a Penis. You don't want anything that they would feel intimidated or competing against. That is like, just so cute and innocent.

[Ashley Hess]

And the handcuffs too. I mean, people view all our different products in different ways, but I think that's a great entree. And that's like light bondage and something easy to grab that has nothing to do with what they're able to do or not do with your private parts. You know, that's just like a hot, sexy thing.

[Sally Koching]

Let's try it and grab it.

[Ashley Hess]

And that can be. Again, that might be too high level for someone, but the pill, like, that's what I'm saying. The other products, they can be your gateway into the vibrating.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. And like, oh, you loved the wedge. Like, oh, cool. What else, you know, is out there? Here's another option. Oh, here's one that vibrates, you know, because it's like a slow buildup.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love that advice. And it reminds me of this interview we did with dominatrix and people talking about getting into bdsm. And she said, like, people don't have to start at the highest level. Like, use a sleep mask and put it on them. Totally. And just touch their body. Like, you don't have to go, like, full scent.

[Sally Koching]

Absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

And somebody said, a bunch of people said, like, is there ever too soon to bring this up?

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on, like, the vibe with the person. But once you start to talk about things sexually, like, even before you've ever had sex, you kind of have a conversation that, like, gets a little bit intimate and hints toward the fact you're gonna sleep together. So, like, maybe that's the time. Like, you know, like, how adventurous are you? Or, like, have you ever used toys before? And you can make it, like, fun and playful, and no matter what their response is, don't be judgmental towards it, but just be like, that could be kind of cool. And if they're intimidated by it, you can just be like, you know, it can just be fun. It can just be, like a way to add to it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. I think, like, I would not wait too long because again, then it's just, you've gone too far. You're not a couple that uses toys. You've been six months, a year, years down the road, and then you feel a little desperate trying to. To spice something up because maybe you've lost some of that spark. But when you feel comfortable sexually, you've had sex a bunch, you're joking around, you know, the way each other's bodies sound and smell. And you've seen each other naked and you've run to the bathroom in front of him to let yourself leak is come out of your body like you feel comfortable. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think we know that sweet spot.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes. I don't think it's ever too soon. I think the sooner you can start writing these sex scripts, Trips together, the better. But. Okay, let me ask you guys. This kind of came up a lot. I was gonna skip it, but what do you think about reusing sex toys with a new partner after that? Partner? So, like, you're in a relationship, you guys have sex toys you guys use together. Is it kosher to reuse with the next partner?

[Ashley Hess]

Well, that's why we have a cleaner. And people also asked about how to clean their vibrator. So we have the vibes only Clean her Foaming toy cleanser. This is going to sterilize your toys and make them just like new.

[Raina Greenberg]

So if you. That's it. You just got to clean between. These are expensive. I'm not tossing this out with the boyfriend.

[Sally Koching]

Oh, no.

[Ashley Hess]

But, like, I wouldn't trust a guy to have cleaned them. You know, that's on.

[Raina Greenberg]

You know, you have to clean. You got to get in a man. A man's sexual.

[Ashley Hess]

If we're talking to women, which I think for the most part, women are the ones that are leading this charge. I mean, I don't know, like, is he going to ask and be pissed? Like, he's going to be like, oh, did you use that with another guy? I mean, you don't want to lie. Like, why don't you just be like, none of your business. And it's sterilized.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, there's.

[Ashley Hess]

There's the language.

[Raina Greenberg]

My ex never wanted to use these, so you actually are the first person I've ever used them. I'm wondering how. How many people would even ever ask this question?

[Sally Koching]

Actually, just lie.

[Ashley Hess]

Just lie. Just lie.

[Sally Koching]

I think we're safe to lie on.

[Ashley Hess]

Or you can be like, oh, when are you worried about it? Buy me a new one.

[Raina Greenberg]

Send them a link.

[Ashley Hess]

Drop a link.

[Sally Koching]

Absolutely.

[Ashley Hess]

So the cleaner. Yes. We love this. This took a long time to develop, too. We wanted to be perfect. I love the way it foams. And you're just gonna clean your toys with this kind of scrub them lightly for about 10 seconds. You can sing Happy Birthday if that's.

[Sally Koching]

The way to duration to leave your.

[Ashley Hess]

Hands and then rinse them clean and let them air dry or towel dry.

[Sally Koching]

Totally. This will give you the peace of mind. Because this is the thing. Like, you can use soaps, but a lot of soaps now have moisturizers and oils and all these types of things that actually, like, do not remove germs, and they also, like, leave marks on the toys. So you want to use something like a toy cleaner or a very clean, clean soap or detergent, but the toy cleaner is not going to be, like, harmful to your body. A detergent might be a little too harsh, but, yeah, you just leave it on. You leave it for, like, 10 to 30 seconds, make sure it gets all over, and then just let it, you know, rinse under the water, let it air dry. You're good to go.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay, I have a question, and I want you guys to answer honestly. I use the cleaner, obviously. Do you use it every time?

[Raina Greenberg]

No, people ask that. People ask, do I have to do it every single time?

[Ashley Hess]

I know they asked, and I'm asking you guys.

[Raina Greenberg]

No, I don't do it every time. Lazy I am.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah. Can I tell you my hack, Sally?

[Ashley Hess]

You might have to say you have to for legal reasons.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, for legal reasons. Legally, yes.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay, I would.

[Sally Koching]

But here's my hack to it. So the reason that you want to clean your sex toys is because, like, it can get, like, fungal germs, bacteria, all this type of thing. So my hack, when I'm feeling super lazy is I'll use it, like, over my. My pants like that. So. So it's like, there's no inside contact.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, my God. Inside of me immediately. But here's my justification. Yeah, I rinse every. I rinse them every time.

[Sally Koching]

Amazing.

[Ashley Hess]

I do. Like, for sure, I have never used a toy and put it in my drawer and gone back to it without rinsing it under the water.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, I got some things rattling around in my drawers. You really want to rinse it, but.

[Ashley Hess]

Sometimes I'm like, if it's just touching my clit. How many people have touched my clit?

[Sally Koching]

This is so funny.

[Ashley Hess]

Not clean hands. Like, how. You know what I'm saying? Like, sorry. It's just like, I don't wash it every time. How many people have we let finger us?

[Raina Greenberg]

And they haven't dirty fingernails, by the way.

[Sally Koching]

I love your microbiome. It's stronger than mine. Like, mine cannot handle.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't get sick.

[Sally Koching]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Mine can handle literally anything.

[Ashley Hess]

That's why I don't get uti. I'm like a kid.

[Sally Koching]

Like, I lick the floor. I literally get a UTI just glancing at something. That's unwashed. Hands touch exactly. Like, I'm like, Can you wash those things?

[Raina Greenberg]

The only time I get UTIs is when I fuck in Vegas, and I. All right, well, maybe we wrap up with one question, then we have to let you go. But a lot of people wanted to know tips for getting into butt sex. Here's my thing. I don't think you should do anything you don't want to do, and I don't think men would. I don't think men are asking sex columnists like, how do I do this thing? How do I get my body penetrated in an orifice that I don't like? That's not gonna feel fun for me for another person, but.

[Ashley Hess]

But sure.

[Raina Greenberg]

Let's play the game of how do I. Do you have any tips or tricks for just getting into a little light butt play?

[Sally Koching]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the thing is, like, you want to make sure you're aroused before you even start to, like, go near butt play. Because the thing is, like, you want your body to be relaxed and turned on. You want there to be blood flow, like, to your pelvic region before you ever, like, start to go near the butthole. Because if you're, like, uncomfortable and you're not warmed up, that thing is just going to tighten right up, and then, like, it's all over. So you want to just start with, like, getting aroused in general. A little bit of body massage I always recommend. And then, like, for me, there is, like, one key word. Lube. You need to make sure you have lube on hand. Like, you never want to go in dry. And I'm not talking, like, using spit. Like, you have to use a product that, like, will last because spit will just be absorbed by your body in an instant. Sally, please.

[Ashley Hess]

Are people really out here spitting on a butthole for lube?

[Sally Koching]

Oh, my God. Well, if the videos I've watched or anything to go by, it's like, in.

[Raina Greenberg]

The porn that I watch.

[Sally Koching]

Exactly. I'm like, this is not real life, by the way. Just so you all know.

[Raina Greenberg]

Once they go near that hole, I turn the porn on.

[Ashley Hess]

Spit on my ass porn. Okay.

[Sally Koching]

And so the thing is, like, for me, a lot of people think it's all about, like, penetration. You want to get inside, and that is just not the case. That's something you really have to work up to. So you want to start with just gentle massage with fingers, with your mouth, maybe with a vibrating toy on a low setting. And you just want to focus on the area around the butt. You don't have to focus fully on the hole and going inside right away. Then you're going to tense up. And I will say, like, if you are using a vibrating toy, that's a great way to get loosened up. But you want to make sure you have a toy that has some kind of anchor so you can grip it, because the last thing you want, worst case scenario, is your butt gets a little excited and it swallows your toy hole. So that's why we have our Annalise, which is all about, like, it has an anchor so you can hold it, and it. It sticks out of the body because, like, you want to make sure, like, you're having a spicy night, you're not in the emergency room. Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

So like, to wrap that up, be turned on, start slow, work your way up to it. And if your partner doesn't want to have patience for that, bye. I'm doing this for you. I don't even want to do this.

[Sally Koching]

Amen.

[Raina Greenberg]

Anyways. All right. Well, Sally, this has been amazing. You guys can shop the line of vibes [e-mail], obviously, follow us on Instagram. But this has been really wonderful, and thank you for being here. We love you. And you, you're just. You're a great partner to us and great friend.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes. And you guys really had a lot of questions, and I do want to take some more. And some of this stuff is on our Instagram too. Like, how do I put the cock ring on? I did a whole tutorial. I used a banana. Get into it. But we will continue to answer these as we go on and talk about our products. Of course. So Vibes only dot com. Like Raina just said, Girls Gotta eat dot com is where you can find everything about the podcast Girls Gotta Eat podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess. Raina is Raina Greenberg. Subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend and we'll see you next time.

[Raina Greenberg]

Have a good week, guys. Bye.