What You Need to Know About Finding and Keeping Love with Jay Shetty (Re-Release)

Summary

Girls Gotta Eat: What You Need to Know About Finding and Keeping Love with Jay Shetty (Re-Release)

Episode Date: April 17, 2026
Original Air Date: January 2023
Hosts: Ashley Hesseltine & Rayna Greenberg
Guest: Jay Shetty

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Episode Overview

This fan-favorite re-release features Jay Shetty—former monk, #1 bestselling author, and host of the “On Purpose” podcast—on all things dating, relationships, and finding and keeping love. The conversation is honest and warm—and ranges from debunking the myths we learn about romance, to the importance of self-knowledge, community, and actionable self-love. Jay, Ashley, and Rayna swap stories, challenge the fairy tales, and give empowering, practical advice for anyone single, coupled, or anywhere in between.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jay Shetty’s Background & Why He Wrote "8 Rules of Love"

• Jay’s Monk Years: Jay discusses the normalization of referencing his time as a monk, how most people in his life initially viewed it as a mistake, and the personal challenges faced upon transitioning back to secular life (03:08).
• Meeting His Wife: Shares the coincidental story of meeting his wife through her mother at a temple—highlighting the twists in love stories (03:59).
• Book Motivation: Jay never had a “relationship guidebook” and wrote "8 Rules of Love" to be the book he needed, emphasizing his ongoing curiosity and mistakes, even after 10 years with his wife (08:21, 09:01).
  • “I keep making relationship mistakes. Even now, I've been with my wife for 10 years.” — Jay Shetty (09:02)

2. Romantic Myths, Cultural Narratives, and Their Consequences

• The Problem With “The One” & Soulmates: Over 70% of people believe in soulmates, which can create passivity and unrealistic expectations.
  • “Love is choice… better that we actually found someone that we cared enough to commit to.” — Jay Shetty (32:44)
• Hollywood Romance & Validation: Many seek the relationship story they’ve been sold by movies, not actual reciprocity or compatibility (11:17, 16:17).
• Time as a False Measure: The duration of a relationship does not equal its quality or success—milestones and anniversaries aren’t proof of happiness.
  • “Length of time doesn’t define the quality of a relationship.” — Jay Shetty (19:47)

3. Self-Knowledge and Self-Love as Fundamentals

• Prepare Yourself for Love First: Know your personality, values, and goals before entering a relationship. If not, you risk adopting someone else’s and losing yourself (22:44, 24:53).
  • “If you don’t know what your values are, you just start to value whatever that person values.” — Jay Shetty (22:44)
• Love Letter to Yourself: A practical exercise from the book to counteract negative self-talk.
  • “Studies show we have 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day. 80% of those are negative. So why not try something new?” — Jay Shetty (27:49, 30:52)
• Control What You Can: Focus on your own growth, not fixing or being fixed by others.

4. Fear of Loneliness and Validation Seeking

• Root of “Settling”: Fear of being alone often drives people to pursue anyone, just to feel lovable (14:32).
  • “I’ll accept any love because at least that proves that I’m not unlovable.” — Jay Shetty (14:32)
• Overvaluing Physical Presence: Many feel alone even when surrounded by people, stressing the need for authentic connection over mere company (15:41).

5. Lists, Soulmates, and Building Love vs. Waiting for It

• The List Dilemma: Prescribed lists of partner traits are often vague or superficial. Real compatibility comes from observing people in varied situations—not checking boxes (32:00, 34:58).
  • “Hot take: a kind person who’s out here saying I want someone unkind… that’s crazy. We can take kind as a given.” — Ashley (35:03)
• Love Is Built, Not Found: The magic is in creating love, iterating together, and being open to surprise, not obsessing over cosmic signs (32:07).

6. The “Halo Effect” and Impression Management

• We Attract What We Use to Impress: If you lead with looks, money, or sex, expect to be measured by it.
  • “You attract what you use to impress. Someone else does that aspect better… you’re replaceable.” — Jay Shetty (38:02)
• Online Dating Pitfalls: Vague bios lead to vague matches—specificity and self-awareness yield better connections (35:17).

7. Finding Partners: People, Projects, and Places

• Shared Spaces and Interests: Meeting through mutual interests or communities (clubs, charity, work, friends) offers a more natural way to find genuine connections than “hoping to bump into the one” at a bar or grocery (35:39).
• Intentional Environments: Where and how you look for love shapes what and who you find (36:16).

8. The Power of Non-Romantic Love and Maintaining Friendships

• All Love Matters: Don't put romantic love on a pedestal. Jay spotlights the richness of family, friends, and community as sources of fulfillment.
  • “Please don’t think your life is over or incomplete because of that, because there’s so many more people to love and receive love from.” — Jay Shetty (47:40)
• Friendships Outlast: Often, it’s your friends and family who are there during tough times and heartbreaks—don’t neglect those bonds when coupled (48:47, 49:44).
• Healthy Relationship Calendaring: Jay recommends structuring time each week for self, partner, own friends, and group/social—preventing codependency and keeping your support system robust (50:21, 52:29).

9. Keeping Romantic Love Fresh and Real

• Ordinary Joy: The real magic is in “doing everyday things together and they still feel meaningful”—not just the big events (53:57).
• Never Stop Dating: Trying new activities, hobbies, and experiences together renews curiosity and attraction (57:44).
• Shared Growth: Couples need to communicate growth and transitions so partners aren’t left behind.
  • “Don't be afraid to grow, but make sure you communicate it to your partner.” — Jay Shetty (60:15).

10. Practical Tips & Actionable Advice

• Write Love Letters to Yourself (26:40): Counter negative self-talk by consciously affirming your worth and strengths.
• Control Your Narrative: Be mindful of the qualities you display to attract partners.
• Reflect on Your Wants: Don’t mistake your attraction for validation for actual compatibility.
• Try Something Hard Solo: When feeling low or post-breakup, challenge yourself alone (travel, sport, even an ice bath) to build confidence (65:45).
• Start Small With Meditation: Jay recommends the “Daily J” on Calm—7 minutes a day as a meditative jump-start (63:57).
• Don’t Be Afraid to “Unchoose”: If you realize you’ve sought the wrong things or person, permission to “unchoose” is crucial—better sooner than later (43:40).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Relationship Mistakes:
  “My biggest mistake was… I looked for validation through what women thought of me. And so I would chase that by doing amazing things, because if I could do something amazing, they'd be like, Jay, you're incredible. And that's what I was doing it for.”—Jay Shetty (11:17)
• On Romantic Fantasies:
  “You just wanted to jam anybody into it [the fantasy]... It’s not fair to the other person either.”—Rayna (12:50)
• On Debunking 'Happily Ever After':
  “No one in my life who thought it was cool [to be a monk] … I lost friends over it. I lost family members.”—Jay Shetty (05:11)
• On Relationship Timelines:
  “We celebrate someone who's like, even, even ... we’re like, oh, yeah, you've been together for 10 years, that's amazing… and you have no idea what that person's experiencing on a daily basis in terms of intimacy, depth, connection.” — Jay Shetty (19:47)
• On the Power of Community:
  “Those are often the people that get forgotten when you’re in a relationship.” — Jay Shetty (48:47)
• On Best Relationship Advice:
  “Don't be afraid to grow, but make sure you communicate it to your partner.” — Jay Shetty (60:15)
• On Worst Relationship Advice:
  “Let me have another kid. It will work out.” — Jay Shetty (61:02)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:59] – Jay’s story of meeting his wife and his challenges transitioning after being a monk.
• [07:47] – Why Jay wrote “8 Rules of Love” and his surprise at what it had to cover.
• [14:32] – The role of loneliness and validation-seeking in romantic choices.
• [19:47] – Why time spent together isn’t a reliable measure of relationship success.
• [22:44] – Three things to know about yourself before love: personality, values, goals.
• [26:40] – Practical self-love: Why writing a love letter to yourself matters.
• [32:00] – The problem with soulmate thinking and “the list.”
• [38:02] – “You attract what you use to impress”—on dating profiles and attraction.
• [47:40] – The legitimacy and importance of all forms of love, not just romantic.
• [52:29] – How to structure a relationship calendar for balance and fulfillment.
• [57:44] – Keeping love fresh and creating new shared experiences.
• [60:15] – Jay’s best relationship advice.
• [61:02] – Jay’s worst relationship advice: Don’t have a child to fix things.
• [63:57] – Jay’s meditation recommendation and tips for solo resilience.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers more than just “dating tips”—it’s a call to rethink how we approach love and relationships, both with ourselves and others. With actionable wisdom, honest storytelling, and lots of laughs, Jay, Ashley, and Rayna make a compelling case for introspection, community, and intentional connection over fairy-tale ideals.

Listen if you want:

• Real talk about modern relationships
• Why self-love is more than a buzzword
• How to actually prepare for healthy love
• To laugh, reflect, and get inspired to “never stop dating”—yourself and your partner

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For more from Jay Shetty: his book is available at 8rulesoflove.com, and you can meditate daily with him on the Calm app’s “Daily J.” Hosts can be found at girlsgottaeat.com and across social platforms.

Transcript

[A]

I think the problem is all of our emphasis and all of our focus is on is that person right for me. But half of that question is me. Who? Who am I like? What am I like? What do I want?

[B]

This podcast is a dear media production.

[C]

Hi guys.

[B]

Hi guys.

[C]

Welcome back to

[B]

re released episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

[C]

This is a new thing for us. We're really excited. We are bringing some of the best of the best episodes out of the Vault to just give you guys more content, more episodes, more of us. Really?

[B]

Yeah. So this is the Girls Gotta Eat's greatest hits.

[C]

So we've cherry picked some of our number one episodes, best guests, favorite episodes and we're re releasing those for you from time to time just to, you know, brighten up your day on Fridays.

[B]

Yeah. So we're kicking this off strong with Jay Shetty. This episode is from January 2023 and so if you listened and you just want to refresh or you never heard it, what were you doing? But you're welcome, welcome and it's wonderful. You know, we really talked about a lot of things with him. How you should prepare yourself to find love and the importance of self love and non romantic love and friendship. Having a list for your perfect partner and what should and shouldn't be on it. It was just like a wonderful conversation. We loved his energy and it was really inspirational. And this is around the time his book came out and so we love chatting about that with him. And then we went on his show too. That came out around the same time, which was such an honor. But this is when he came on ours.

[C]

Yes. I mean his energy, his tone, his pace, his insights just. He's really so fantastic. So this is where we're starting the Vault re releases and we hope you guys love it and get introduced to some new content. And thanks for being here. Enjoy your Friday. Yes.

[B]

So enjoy. What you need to know about finding and keeping love with Jay Shetty.

[C]

We are so, so excited for this guest this week. He is unbelievable. He is the number one New York Times bestselling author, award winning storyteller, former monk, dedicated to helping people train their mind for peace and purpose every day. His show on Purpose is the number one world's top health and wellness podcast. We were just on it. Second book, eight Rules of Love is available for purchase now. Please welcome to the show a guest you are going to love, Jay Shetty.

[A]

Oh, thank you guys. This is, this is nice little role reversal over here, but you're in the hot seat, honestly. Thank you so much for having Me, I'm so grateful to be on your show. You have an amazing community, amazing audience. And honestly, I do. I do feel very honored. I really do. So thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

I mean, we told our audience you were coming on. We asked them what questions they had for you. They were so excited. Some people didn't even have a question. They were like, oh, my God. That's all they responded. So you have our favorite name at the time. I have a question for you because you said this on what we just recorded with you. When you just say, when I was a monk, it just flows out so easily. Like, does that effort get old? Like, is it a flex?

[C]

Is it a flex?

[B]

Like, it's just. I know it's not a no.

[A]

It's a great question.

[B]

It's a funny thing to just say.

[A]

It's really interesting, right? Your. Your life, to you is just normal. Like, everything in your own life is so normal. And for me, it's such a normal thing in my life that it's one of the easiest things I say because it's like going, oh, when I went to college or when I went to university, like, that's exactly how I refer to it. And so many of my biggest life's lessons come from that time. And so I refer to it so regularly. It's such a big pull of thoughts and ideas for my life.

[C]

One of the questions our listeners asked, and we'll get into them, was, why are you so hot? It's usually my job to hit on the guests, but you're married, so I respect boundaries.

[B]

Well, so you said this, and the timeline stuck with me. From us just doing an interview with you that you were a monk for three years and then you met your wife shortly thereafter.

[A]

No. So I met my wife before.

[C]

Oh, you did?

[A]

Yeah. So I actually. So the story of how I met my wife is I was in my final six months of university. And while I was at university, I would spend my weekends at my local temple, training to be a monk, preparing to go off and become a monk when I graduated. And that was me basically trying to stay out of trouble because I was like, final year of university, too much trouble. And so I do this. And then I was asked to show a woman around, doing certain rituals or certain services around the temple. And I've never been asked to do it before, never got asked to do it again. And this woman came up to me afterwards and she said, hey, I'd love to introduce my daughter to meditation and spirituality. Would you meet with her? And I Was like, well, I'm gonna go and become a monk, but I can introduce her to my sister. That was my wife's mom. Oh, my God. My wife's mom met me that day. I showed her around. We built up somewhat of a rapport. Then I met my wife to introduce her to my sister.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

And I met my wife. I thought she was absolutely. Well, she wasn't my wife. I met this girl, thought she was absolutely stunning and. And beautiful. But I met her for two seconds and I was like, stay focused, stay focused, stay focused. And then. And then her and my sister became really good friends. And so then when I came back from the monastery, she was at my house all the time. And it was.

[B]

She was at the house all the time.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Can you quit monking?

[A]

Yeah, no, I was already. I'd already.

[C]

My question was like, did you leave

[B]

the monastery after being a monk? And you could, like, say that on dates. Like, what would the reaction have been? But clearly you just got out and started dating.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. No, I mean, I. I struggled to tell anyone because it was as in to talk, to explain what I did or how it felt like I was literally rejected from 40 companies when I left because my resume said, monk.

[C]

Why?

[A]

For three years, you've got no work experience. They're like, surprise, surprise. What's your transferable skill? Like sitting still and being silent? Like, no one needs that now.

[C]

It's like, in their company, it's such an asset.

[A]

That's so funny. I was doing an interview this morning. Morning. With the Daily Mail in the uk, and I was saying the same thing to them that when I chose to become a monk, it was like, all my family was like, you've been brainwashed. Everyone's like, you're throwing your life away. My extended family was like, this is the worst decision you'll ever make. You'll never make any money again. So it was met with so much resistance. And then when I left, it was like, we told you so. We knew that would happen to you. Like, look what happened. Now you're not going to get a job. Look, 40 companies rejected you. We saw this coming along. And so it was such a, like, uncool thing that I did in my life in the sense of how the world viewed it. And so to now when that, you know, I feel like me writing my book, think like a Monk and talking about it in hopefully a more mainstream, relatable way. I feel like now it's like, oh, Jay, it's a flex. It's Cool. And I'm like, trust me, when I did it, there was no one in my life who thought it was cool. Like, my. My friend was like, jay, what are we going to talk about right now? All we used to talk about was girls. Like, what am I going to talk to you about? Right. So I lost friends over it. I lost family members who disconnected. It was not as cool as it may feel now. It definitely wasn't seen that way.

[B]

That's so funny, because I just picture, like, a woman on a date being like, that's hot. Like, being like, he was a monk girl, but, like, kind of not even knowing what that means. Like, I just can picture it be like, did you even know?

[A]

Yeah, I never went. The only dates I went on with my now wife. So I never got. I never got to experience what that felt like.

[C]

Well, if you ask women, like, what's the number one quality you look for on a man? They're like someone in therapy. So that's basically you shut up.

[A]

Three years. Three years of self therapy, for sure.

[C]

Yeah. Well, you are, like, so qualified to talk to us about all this day. And you wrote this new book, and Ashley and I were reading it and we will get into it. It's called Eight Rules of Love. And something I want to hear about why you wrote it. But something I love about the book is that you talk about being alone and enjoying it and breaking up, and you don't expect that that's gonna be part of it. And you talk about the different ashrams. Am I saying the word?

[A]

Yeah, you said it. Great. That's great pronunciation, good job reading.

[C]

It's not a hard word to pronounce.

[A]

Heseltine and ashrams. That's like. That's good. That's good.

[C]

And you talk about how you pulled from your life as a monk to a lot of preparing to love and preparing to love again. And I don't think you see a lot of books about love that are like, no, you should also be alone and it's okay to break up. And you pull so much into that. When I first read the title, I was like, what is this going to be about? I was really surprised. Pleasantly. So.

[A]

Oh, I love that. Thank you for that. You're welcome.

[C]

Thank you for reading. I'm sort of writing the book, so tell us why you wrote the book.

[A]

I mean, so many reasons, but the biggest one, I'd say, is that I've always been obsessed with love. I'm a romantic. I love love. And I think I've made So many mistakes in relationships and dating, like, so many across the years. And I never had a guidebook. I never had podcasts at the time. I never had insights. I never had coaches or therapists at the time that could have helped me avoid so many mistakes or make those mistakes, but know what to pivot and shift from. And so, for me, I wrote the book because I feel like this is the book that I would have wanted when I was growing up to learn more about relationships. And at the same time, I've just. I keep making relationship mistakes. Even now I've been with my wife for 10 years.

[C]

And she won't text you back.

[A]

I keep. Yeah, she won't text me back. I keep saying the wrong things. Like, there's so many things that I still make mistakes with. And I was like, maybe if I sit with this topic for two years, which is how long it takes to write the book. If I sit with this topic for two years, maybe I'll learn something, right? And it was like, do I want to be obsessed with learning about love for two years? I was like, yes, that's. That's exactly what I want to do, is see what I can learn, see what I can take away. So personal obsession and personal passion.

[C]

You talk a lot about the things that we're taught and why they're wrong. And we grow up with these, like, ideas of, like, find lust or find this particular type of compatibility, make these lists, and you sort of debunk a lot of this in the book, that all this stuff that we were taught is wrong.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I think one of the biggest things we were taught is, like, being alone was weird, right? Like, I talk about in the book about how, you know, if you're the kid at school who no one sits with that lunch, you're considered the weirdo. Or if you have a birthday party and not a lot of people show up, you're the loner, right?

[B]

I mean, I just saw my birthday. People are on vacation sometimes.

[C]

But anyway.

[A]

But it's interesting. Like, as adults, like, I'd be happy. Honestly speaking, I'd be happy if, like, my closest six friends showed up for my birthday.

[B]

You get to be an adult, and you're like, no one come, please.

[A]

Yeah, no one comes. Anyway.

[B]

Just bail.

[C]

Please. Leave early. Also. Tell me something else to do.

[B]

Right? Okay.

[A]

Yeah. And I always found, like, you know, you. You went to. If you go to a wedding alone, like, the person's always like, oh, you didn't bring a plus one. Like, you know, it's always like, Poor you. And I think that kind of attitude is what set us up for so many mistakes in love. And I think for me, I'm trying to debunk those things because I think what we base our love life on is based on what everyone thinks is love or how it's been portrayed in movies or how it's been portrayed in music. Like, you have all these love songs, and none of them are happy, and they're all complaining about how bad love was and how painful it was. So there's no guidance, There's. There's no thinking. And so I think I would go out with people because of how good we look together, and that was the only reason. Or you'd go out with someone because you think all your friends want them. Right. Like, you start making decisions based on so many super superficial things. And I wish I just had some insight.

[B]

I was gonna ask you what you felt like, were some of your big mistakes when you were dating. Like, did you ever have, like, a boy phase? I mean, really, what. What kind of dater were you, or were you a couple different types?

[A]

Yeah, I. I had phases. I had phases. I'd say that I had a lot of different times when all I was looking for was love in the movies. Like, I literally wanted a Hollywood romance. And so I try and craft that, but my mistake was it didn't really matter who the other person was. I was just going to invent the most beautiful relationship, thinking that it was love and hoping that that person would love me. And so I think for a long time, I looked for validation through what women thought of me. And so I would chase that by doing amazing things, because if I could do something amazing, they'd be like, jay, you're incredible. And that's what I was doing it for. Not even for the person. And that's messed up. I'm talking about, like, at 15 years old, 16 years old. And then when I went through phases when I was dating randomly or just meeting with lots of women and whatever else it may be, I think my biggest mistake was just that a part of me feels like the biggest mistake I made at that time is I spent too much money on dates and women. Like, I just spent way too much money. I didn't. Yeah. To impress them that I didn't have, like, money I didn't have. And I think I would, like, use any bit of money I was working on to save up to. To waste it on dates.

[B]

Well, we mentioned this on our interview with you, and you've talked about this on previous episodes of yours, but I'd love to even just dive into it a little further, because I'm just obsessed with the topic of just wanting someone to like you and impress them and gain their acceptance and their adoration without even thinking if you like them or they're a match.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, because I want to go back to what you said exactly. You had this fantasy of what this relationship was going to be like, and you just wanted to jam anybody into it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think that it can lead to a lot of pitfalls, and it's not fair to the other person either, right?

[A]

No, not at all.

[C]

Because that person can also be like, do you even like me? Or am I just here to, like, fit into this fantasy of your life? So let's talk about it.

[A]

Yeah, Well, I think a lot of people like the fantasy, actually. And then you realize you don't like them. Right. Like, it's like. It's a really uncomfortable experience when you're doing things just for validation. And I think that's what everyone can relate to. It's like, I think about anyone in relationships now, and I'm always asking them, like, do you actually like the other person? Do you actually know them? Do you actually understand them? Like, do you even know that many interesting things about them? Or is it just that in your head you've made this amazing story up about who this person is and how much you like each other? There's this amazing study that I saw that said to make someone a casual friend, it takes 40 hours. To make someone a good friend, it takes 100 hours. And to consider someone a great friend, it takes 200 hours. And so, yeah, like, quality time spent with them. And when I look at that, I'm like, people are saying they love you after, like, 20 hours. Or we're saying, like, oh, you're amazing. You're incredible after, like, 30 hours. And I'm not saying you have to have spent 200 hours, but the depth of that time you've spent with someone. Like, sometimes a podcast can accelerate relationships. Maybe we should just podcast with people that you are considering dating.

[B]

Random was doing that.

[C]

She used to do that. I used to invite people on that.

[A]

Yeah, there you go. And. But. But what I'm trying to say is that that depth, that intimacy, I think we don't have enough of that before we start making these big claims.

[C]

Do you think it starts with this fear of being alone? And so you're just like, that's the worst thing in the world. So I just want to find somebody to fit into this fantasy of what I think my life will be like, not being single. So you just pick anybody?

[A]

Yeah. I think it comes from loneliness. I think it comes from the fear of being alone. And when I look at that fear, what's that really coming from? It's a fear of, I'm inadequate, I'm unworthy, I'm not lovable. That's where it's coming from. It's coming from, like, this discomfort that we have that, well, will anyone like me? And actually, if someone likes me, no matter who they are, at least I'm not unlovable. And so we'll receive and accept anyone's love. And I think that that's really dangerous. I think it's really painful where you're saying, I'll accept any love because at least that proves that I'm not unlovable. And I think, to me, that's really what loneliness, or the fear of loneliness is based on. It's not. It's not just physically not being around someone. That's not really what we're dealing with. I think we all know there's multiple ways of being alone. Like the idea that so many of us today feel surrounded by people, but we don't feel understood. We don't feel seen, we don't feel heard, even with a buzzing group of friends. And so to me, I'm looking for that kind of connection, or I'm encouraging people to look for that kind of connection where you feel seen, you feel understood, you feel heard. Not just that you have a physical person.

[B]

Mm. I'd love for you to speak on just all of the. That we're fed and, like, why we do get so skewed on what love looks like. Because real, healthy love is, like, kind of boring, like, from the outside.

[C]

Like, it's true.

[B]

Because the things that you see. Ray and I always talk about this on a different level of, like, reality tv. Like, normal people would be too boring. You wouldn't want to watch it. You need volatility, and you need ups and downs, and. And you need all these things. And so it's almost like all of the fairy tales and the love we've seen in the movies and the songs and all that can be pretty volatile. That's what makes them exciting. That makes it entertaining.

[A]

That's so true. Yeah. And I think the earliest we can all relate to is the damsel in distress, like, the night in shining armor, coming to save someone. And so I think we're set up with that idea of someone's going to save you, and you will be saved. And so now everyone's operating from the idea of, like, who's going to save me? And then the other person's going, who am I going to save? Right. So you're living in this world, world of, like, the savior trying to save someone. And the savior wants to be idolized for being a savior. And the savior only feels accomplished when the person who's being saved feels helpless and vulnerable. And so you're basically setting up this paradigm of fixer and broken. And that's why in every relationship, someone's saying, I'm broken. Help me. Fix me. And then the other person's like, yes, I'm here to fix you. I'll. I'll take care of everything. And then we both get exhausted of that paradigm. Or when you look at movies and, you know, I'm a massive fan of romantic comedies. I love them since day one. And now when I watch them back, I'm like, oh, my gosh, what is going on?

[C]

I mean, the amount of people that say that Carrie and Big is like, they're the goat of a relationship, more like, it's so toxic.

[A]

Yeah. I had an ex girlfriend that was addicted to the Notebook. We would watch the Notebook, like, all the time. I think I've seen. I think I've seen The notebook like, 30 times at least. Right?

[B]

Pretty awesome, let's be honest.

[A]

And there's this scene, like, I remember there's this scene where Ryan Gosling goes up to Rachel McAdams, and he's just like, I'll be anything you want. I'll do anything. I can be it. And it's just, like, so unhealthy.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Then the next thing you know, he's hanging off the Ferris wheel and with two hands. Remember the scene? He's hanging off the Ferris wheel, two hands, and he lets go and goes, if you don't say, go on a date with me, I will fall.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's really unhealthy.

[B]

There's a threat now.

[A]

There's a threat. There's a threat of suicide and personal harm in order to have someone go on a date with you.

[C]

I was sitting in the. The. In the theater, gulping for air. I was crying so hard about how romantic that was. Like, what if it was a normal relationship? Would you?

[B]

Like, this is the dumbest movie I've ever seen.

[C]

Just these two people who love each

[B]

other and are healthy and stable.

[A]

Who cares?

[C]

Well, the other relationship in that movie, the person that she's going to marry is just, like, A normal, stable guy.

[A]

Apart from. Doesn't he throw all that? No, that was her dad who throws the letters away. Yeah, I forgot. But. But, yeah, like, you're exposed to all these ideas. Obviously, we're exposed to the idea of happily ever after. Obviously, we're exposed to the idea of, you know, everything works out in the end and even the one person. Like, when there's a love triangle and one person ends up single, you don't worry about them because you're like, these two people got together, and in real life, you're that person who got left out of the love triangle. So I just feel like we're exposed to all these ideas. They become our reality, or at least they become an imprint. And even if we don't know it, these imprints become real. Why do we search for drama? You were just talking about reality tv. Reality TV exposes you to so much drama. Now you feel you have to have drama in your relationship to survive. It has to be interesting all the time, and there has to be something to find out. I was just with a friend the other day who said someone told her to get a private investor to make sure that her boyfriend wasn't seeing someone else. And I'm like, that's. Where does that idea come from? Right, right.

[C]

Also, if you're picking up the phone to do that, like something else, something is bad here. You know, this other idea of bullshit that. Cause we're gonna go down that road of, like, you know, things that we were fed that you talked about. I forget if it was on a show I listened to that you did or in the book, but that measure of time is, like, this great measurement of relationships, and it's such bullshit because, like, just being together forever is not the measure of what a good relationship is. And I to speak on that because

[B]

I thought it was.

[C]

You had some really great insights.

[A]

Yeah. There's this dad joke that this uncle used to tell at my, like, when I was growing up. And he'd always tell it at, like, an engagement or a wedding or, like, it would. He would pick the most awkward time to tell this joke. And it's a terrible joke, but he'd be like, oh, there was a couple that was together for 40 years, and they were once asked what was the success or secret to their relationship? And he said, well, when I was 30, I took my wife to Paris, and they were like, oh, that's amazing. Well, what did you do for your 40th anniversary? And he's like, oh, I went and picked her up, like, I went and got brought her back and that was his dad joke. And it was that same idea of like, oh, like, wait a minute. Length of time doesn't define the quality of a relationship. Like the idea that I think today we celebrate someone who's like, even, even. And I have to be careful of this in my own self. Like, we're like, oh, yeah, you've been together for 10 years, that's amazing. You've been together for 20 years, that's amazing. And you have no idea what that person's experiencing on a daily basis in terms of intimacy, depth, connection. And the biggest thing I find is just not only do we celebrate it, we want it, we long for it. We think if we reach that landmark, that means something. That that alone means that we've made it. That alone means that we don't have certain issues. Whereas most divorces and breakups in longer term relationships happen at the five to seven year mark. And so they've had a milestone of five years, they're on their way to 10 years. But you start finding out that these timelines don't artificially improve the quality of a relationship. So I would. And being too early or too late, being too old or too young, I think there's the idea of like, oh, you're too young to fall in love. You're too old to fall in love. Like, you're too young to find the one. You're too old to find the one. And so all of these timelines set us back to feeling like, well, when is right. And I think we measure time as opposed to how we feel, as opposed to what we know. And I'd go to that third one the most. It's less about how much time you've spent together, it's less about just how you feel and it's almost about how much you know about that person and how they respond to stress, to fatigue, to change, to pain. The more you know that stuff, the more you know whether a relationship is going to last.

[C]

So I just, I brought it up because I think when you are single, it's easy to look around you and be like, everybody I know has been with their partner for five years and like, it doesn't matter, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think that you can find really valuable things in the short term. And just because somebody has reached this mile marker doesn't mean they are happy or have achieved it. So.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So if we're talking to people who are single and like, I want to find love, I want to fall in love, I Mean, there's so many different avenues we could go down here. But in the book, I mean, there's a lot of, I mean, the age old thing is you have to love yourself first, yada, yada, yada, we get it. But like, how do you feel like someone can really prepare themselves to even be open to a healthy relationship.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In terms of like prepping for love, like how do we get ready, you know?

[A]

Now I know you both have lots of amazing advice on this and you just shared it on my show too. So I'm not going to repeat anything you've said before or things that have come up for you. I found three things that I think you need to know about yourself before you get into a relationship. So pretty easy. The first one's obvious. It's your own personality, likes and dislikes. I find that, you know, it's. You end up in a relationship and it was like, what do you want to eat, what do you want to watch? And then it just goes round around in circles. And I find that often people don't know themselves at the basic end of the food they like, the cuisine they like, the, the movies they like to watch. And I'm saying that as a, as a simple thing, but it can be complex, that we just never were asked ourselves. Maybe we always did what your older brother or sister did. Maybe your last relationship just decided what you're into. Like, when have you ever sat down to think, what is it that I deeply enjoy? What is it that brings my soul alive? What is it that gives me a sense of meaning and what's important to me and as simple as movies and food all the way through to life, decisions. So that's the first thing, personality. The second is your own values. I find that this is probably the most critical part of any relationship. Knowing what you value, knowing what's important to you, knowing what you want to commit your life to, or at least the next five, ten years. Knowing what's valuable in different scenarios, like, do you have a hierarchy of how you would organize your life in terms of your career, family, love, life? Like, where does that sit for you? You. Because the chances are if you don't have that list, you're going to trade it for someone else's. And I think this happens all the time where when you don't know what your values are, you just start to value whatever that person values. And then 10 years later you're like, God, I've just been valuing what you value. I don't know what I value. So I Want people to avoid that. And the final thing I'd say is, what are your goals? Like where do you want to go? And chances are if you have goals, you're going to have commitments, you're going to have things that you want to do, you're going to have plans, you're going to have people around you that want to do the same thing. It's what you both were saying on my show. You have a stable foundation, you have a life you love. And a life you love is based on those three things, personality, values and goals. And so if you don't know the answer to those, or at least somewhat, I think it's hard.

[C]

It's so well said. And I love the whole idea of checking in with yourself, what are your values? Because we, we asked an Instagram, you know, what questions you have, or Shetty and his book. And so many people kind of echoed the same thing of like, I don't know what I want. How do I know what I want? How do I know if this is the right person? How do I know this is the one? How do I know what attachment style feels good? How do I know what love is versus lust? And what you're saying is like, just check in with yourself. It's just, you know, it's simple.

[A]

Yeah, I think the problem is all of our emphasis and all of our focus is on is that person right for me? But half of that question is me, who, who am I like? What am I like? What do I want? And so we're so obsessed with getting to know the other person in the beginning, but we don't know ourselves, we don't understand ourselves. Like, you can only see if two things match. If you have clarity over this thing, you're not going to have clarity over the other person for quite some time. But you, you've been living with for your whole life, you can have clarity. So it's almost going back to the age old wisdom of focus on what you can control. Like, you can't control if someone loves you, you can't control if someone, someone likes you. You can't control if someone's telling you the truth. But you can control if you're telling the truth. You can control if you like yourself and you can control if you're communicating that. I think, Ashley, something you brought up, which I loved, was your stance on kids and having kids. Right. The idea that you know that about yourself means you're not scared about presenting that you're aware that if someone does, it's easy to be like, okay, well, this isn't going to work out. It just starts creating some boundaries and concerns, constraints that actually make it easier to find the right person. As opposed to you saying, I'm an open book, like, you can win, like, do, do whatever, and I'll be, I'll be impressed by whatever you do because

[B]

I'm not sure I'll fit somewhere. Yeah, I'll be whatever you want me to be. Like Ryan.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Does this correlate with the writing a love letter to yourself in the book? Because I love that exercise.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And you do. There's a lot of things in the book that are actionable, things you can do. Can we talk about that a little bit? And like, that comes out from.

[A]

Yeah. So the book is full of practical exercises. Because in my professional life, I'm a coach. I have a private coaching practice. I work with couples, individuals have for many, many years. And so I love practical exercises, things people can actually do. And the book's more like a workbook in that sense. But each section has a love letter to yourself. I'm a big fan of writing to yourself, talking to yourself, connecting with yourself, just because that's the only way you get to change your own dialogue. I think we already talk to ourselves. I'm not good enough. I'm not good looking enough. I'm not smart enough. Like, I think he or she is out of my league or they are out of my league. I, I feel inadequate sometimes. I, oh my God, do I look good today? I'm not sure. Like, so we already talk to ourselves, but 90% of that conversation is unhealthy and negative. Studies show we have 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day. Day. 80% of those are negative and 80% of those are repetitive. Wow. So if you're having the thought of, like, I'm not good enough, chances are you're having that thought multiple times per day.

[B]

Reinforced.

[A]

Correct. So when you write a love letter to yourself, especially in your single dom or when you're alone, it's a chance of saying, well, what do I want my thoughts to be when I'm alone? You both had amazing answers on my show when I asked you, what do you bring to the table? And it wasn't boastful, it wasn't arrogant, it wasn't egotistic, it was just, I have a great life. And that is a love letter to yourself. Like, that's basically what you were doing. So I think carving out time to write a letter to yourself almost in the view of how do I wish I spoke to my 4 year old self, my 8 year old self, my 12 year old self. What were the things, the hateful things? I made a video probably about four years ago now and it was to show this exact idea and it applies to the love letter. And that's where the idea came from. I interviewed a group of teenage girls who were probably between the ages of like 16 to 19. And I asked them how they would describe themselves or how they feel about themselves and they all said, I'm too dark, I'm too fat, I'm too skinny, whatever it may have been. But it was some extreme of that type and it was really painful. Some of them cried, some of them were deep breathing, like it was emotional for them to express that, but they were very vulnerable. What they didn't know is we had their younger sisters watching from behind the scenes. So their sisters were actually watching this conversation. And after I had this conversation with them, I invited their younger sisters out who'd been writing a letter to the them about how they felt about them. And so these, it's truly my favorite video I've ever created in my life because it wasn't casted, it wasn't cure, it was like it was all real. And these little girls came out, not all of them, but their younger sisters came out and had these like, literally like these letters of love for their sisters. And they read them out and it was just the most heartwarming thing in the world because these girls who saw themselves as, as less than, as unworthy, their sisters were like, you're my idol, you're my inspiration, like you're everything to me. And that exchange is what we have to learn to give ourselves. You may not have a younger sister, brother or person in your life. You may not have an older sister, brother person in your life who does that. We've got to do that for ourselves. And I hope that those love letters will be the notes you wish other people wrote for you.

[B]

I love that there's probably a lot to be said for like writing a love letter to your younger self or even like your future self. I have a friend of ours who's like a psychic medium. All the things, like she's been doing that exercise with some women, like write a letter to your future self manifesting what you picture your life to be at that time that you're writing that. And she said people have been really getting what they want. I just think it's really powerful and sometimes people feel like that's so cool, corny and it's Like, I don't know what's better. That or all the negative commentary you have running through your head about.

[A]

That's my point. Right. You've only got two choices. So it's. It's like, right. Like it's either this negative, repetitive pattern that. We know where that goes. We've already lived that truth.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So why not try something new? And yes, it might be a bit in the beginning, might feel a bit corny or may feel a bit cheesy, but I. I promise you that having a great relationship with yourself is not cheesy.

[C]

There's. What, there's this marketing tactic that, that if you get served the same ad, it takes three times to buy something. And imagine you've told yourself something terrible like a hundred times, and now you've trained your brain to think this. And if we start the opposite practice of checking it three times, maybe you'll actually buy that. You're a good product.

[B]

I love that. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I always say to people that you can only control. You can't control 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day, but you can control your first thought of the day and the last thought of your day. And if the first thought of the day is one that you want to start your day with, that's awesome. And if you. If the last thought is one you're grateful for, that's great. Like, that's what you're working on. So three thoughts is good. I like that.

[C]

I love that. Well, I think that, like so much of this, I love thinking about finding love in terms of starting with yourself and stopping the negative self talk and thinking about what you want. So if we get to the point where we're like, okay, I've done all that work. Easy, you know, done did it, and we're ready to find love. You talk a lot in your book about not writing this prescribed list of traits you want. And instead of creating love. So I would love for you to talk about.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I want. Well, I wrote that quote down. I just. How do you intentionally build love instead of wishing, wanting, and waiting for it to arrive fully formed?

[A]

So studies show 70% of people believe in soulmates. And that's mind blowing to me because their definition is there's one person who's perfectly made for me that I'm meant to find. And when we find each other, that will be it, right? No, no, no. And I'm on. And by the way, I'm on your side too. I.

[B]

It's fairy tale.

[C]

Ashley's the 30%.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I Don't agree. I don't agree with that. Because the challenge with that is you're saying that you're going to wish, want, wait, hope to find that one person. Which means you might have to go through 8 billion people in the world to know, Right? Otherwise there's always plenty more fish in the sea. There's always more choice.

[C]

It gives up a little bit of control, too. You know, you're not really in the driver's seat in this scenario. You're just like, it's out there.

[A]

It does. And what I actually love about love is that love is choice. So if you don't believe they're soul mates, you're actually saying we're choosing to be together. Like, you're saying that that person wasn't made for me or meant for me. We made it work. Like, isn't that so much better that we actually found someone that we cared enough to commit to? So, yeah, that was the fully formed piece of just making the point that you're not going to suddenly find someone who ticks every box. And I think if you have too much of a prescribed list, someone could tick seven and not tick three, three. And now they're off the list. It gets really hard. Or you think you're compromising on three things when you're actually not. I think my challenge with the list of what you want in a person is often it's very vague. It's also just like, good sense of humor, tall, attractive, funny, interesting, smart. Like, that's like a lot of people and not a lot of people. Right? Like, that's just. That's not a good enough list in terms of, oh, kind. And it's like, okay, well, someone could be kind and still a narcissist. Or someone could be. Someone could be kind and manipulative. Like, you're not writing things off by having that list. And therefore, I think you're better off seeing what someone shows you and experiencing them and actually getting to know someone in how they react. So, for example, if you only see someone when you're both happy, when you have two hours free every week, you're not seeing them, you're seeing them for two hours, happy a week. If you call someone after work when they're stressed out, now you're seeing them. If you see someone with their family, now you're seeing them. If you see someone with their friends, you're seeing them. You're now starting to actually see them. And so I find a lot of the time we're seeing a specific version of Someone. And if in that two hours, they can be kind, sincere, loving, we're saying they're kind, loving, sincere, but they're not exposed to any of the stuff that makes us the. Those other things. I was reading a study recently that was showing how it's not that we're not kind people, it's that we're dealing with so much stress that stress stops us from being kind or stress stops us from being who we want to be. How someone deals with stress is almost a bigger telling sign of who they are and how they express themselves than if you see them in perfect mode all the time.

[B]

Also, like, yeah, hot. Take a kind person who's out here saying, I want someone unkind.

[A]

Yeah, that's my point.

[B]

That's just kind of a given. And if you're like, I want unkind, hightail it to therapy. That's crazy. Yeah, I want someone to be addict to me, not respect me, cross my boundaries, you know?

[C]

So, yeah, I think we can take

[B]

kind as a given.

[C]

I see this a lot in online dating, where you look at profiles and they're just. The person they're describing could be anybody. And the person that, like, they're saying that they want could be anybody. So people are like, I love to travel, and I. I just want somebody nice. And I'm just like, I don't know. That could be anybody. You know, I don't know if I fit into your list. And I don't know anything about you either. You like your family, you like to travel. That's everybody alive.

[A]

And that's a good starting point. But that's what I'm saying. It can't be that list. And so I break it down to three things. I think that you find people. And I think you agree because of what you were saying back on my show. There's three things. People, projects, and places. So I feel that you find the person you want to be with in places of equal value. That could be anywhere from a club, a society, a surfing group, a cycling group, a book club. Like, it's a place that you go to where you find someone because you're into the same thing and so you can narrow it down by that. And I've. I've met people who've met at charities and like, you know, or travel groups or whatever.

[B]

Like a dog event. Like, yeah, we both love dogs. Like, you know, I'm. I'm not going to go to a Trump rally and expect a guy there.

[A]

No, but, no, but even, even, like, when you think about, like, everyone's like hoping to bump into someone at Air1 in LA or like, you know, like,

[C]

my bag says airport.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. You're having to bump into someone at a grocery store, you're hoping to bump into someone at a bar. You know, you think you're going to bump into someone when you look your best. Right. Like, you have that idea that, like, oh, when I'm dressed up at night, like, that's when I'm going to bump into the one. Actually, you might be meeting someone in a very overly curated way, and that may not be where you meet them, but it may be. And when people say you find someone when you least expect it, it's not that. I think sometimes you find someone when you're least prepared in the sense of you're not going out there going, I'm gonna find someone tonight. Because sometimes those places you look in aren't the places that you find a long term, healthy relationship. And so you have people of equal value as well, that introduce you. I think we spoke about that. The idea that if you have someone in your life who has equal values or things they care about, that person's going to make great intros. And I think making people aware and getting connected. And then the final is projects of equal value. I think at work, you were saying that, you know, with your work, you're more likely to bump into more people. And I think people underestimate just how much work, charity work, any work around their world, even taking on a side hustle or a side gig, like where you're likely to bump up into someone.

[B]

Well, Raina mentioned dating apps, which kind of jogged my memory of something I wanted to ask you about. That was what we put out there to the world is what we get back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the way you stated, I forget the exact quote, but what you perceive to be valuable, like, you can obviously speak on it, but I just love the examples of like a man that's going to put on his dating app or he's going to put out in the world, like, I have this fancy car, I have all this money. And then complains when women just use him for his money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or I guess a woman that has, you know, her butt crack on her hinge and she's like, these guys just think, I just want to. It's like, I don't know, your booty

[C]

hole was like, front, Are you going butt crack first?

[B]

But I'm saying, like, and it's not that you deserve to be violated, it's that objectified. That's a Better word than violated. But if you're putting out a certain type of energy, you are going to get it back.

[A]

Yeah. We make decisions based on three to eight seconds of what we see of someone. Right. Whether it's a picture or a short video or a short clip or a. Or a little bio, you're making a big decision based on very little information. And so that little information becomes even more valuable. And so I was talking about, in my book, I have this idea, which is you attract what you use to impress. Right. You attract what you use to impress. And so if I was giving an example of my client who's always dripping in like, Gucci or Louis Vuitton or whatever it may be, he'll always want to be wearing designer. Now, he is wealthy, granted. But if that's all anyone ever sees, and then a month later he's complaining, oh, she just wanted me to buy her Gucci handbags. And I'm like, well, what did you expect? That's what you set yourself up for. Or if you're impressing someone only through one aspect of yourself and you're banking on that aspect, I promise you they're going to stay with you for that and they'll leave you because of that. Because someone else does that aspect better, whether that's your looks, whether that's money, whether that's fame. Like, if someone does it better, you're replaceable now because you've marketed yourself. And I think we don't like this idea because we don't think we're marketing ourselves. But today on the apps, it is literally like online shopping. Right. That's. That's the experience people are having. It's like, do I want that? No. Do I want that? No. Do I want. Oh, yeah, I would want that. But then if you've only got the retention based on, you know, the ad in the shop front, then you've got to be ready for. That's what they're primarily looking for.

[C]

Absolutely. And it goes conversely also, if you're just. If your primary thing is, I'm looking for somebody with money, which go off. Money makes things really fun or something exciting or whatever. Yeah. Like, if you're.

[A]

There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. I'm not saying.

[C]

No, there's nothing wrong. And I love money and money's great and it makes things really fun and easier. But if all you're seeking out is money or sex, and then that's what you get from a person, you can't be necessarily disappointed if the other things that you Wanted, like, listen, everybody should be kind to you, but if your primary thing was money or your primary things being degraded in bed, did you look at the other things?

[A]

I like it. You know,

[C]

so you can't be mad when that's what you get. You know, I know somebody in particular. I think she only dates for money and what people do for work. And that's fine because I know that she wants stability and lots of people want that. And I think that money helps you, helps you to be a good parent. Sometimes she dates for that, and then she seems almost surprised and disappointed when somebody only talks about their money. I'm just like, but where's the surprise here?

[A]

But that's a really interesting point. Right. If you date someone for money, you may get financial stability, but get tons of emotional instability. Right. Or emotional disinterest. And that's. I, I love that point you're making. Like, it's, it's also how we define these words. Like, if you're saying, I want stability, I fully respect and understand that. But are you open to emotional volatility for financial stability? Right. And I think we're not letting someone show us what else they are. I think it's also, there's, there's this. It's really subtle. And I think I encourage everyone to learn about the biases in our mind and psychology because we don't even know when they're acting on us. And so one of the biases is called the halo effect. And the halo effect is when you find something attractive about someone, you start giving them other qualities. So if you think someone's good looking, you believe they're trustworthy. If someone has a good job, they must be organized. Right. If someone's famous, then they must be really likable and interesting. So you start placing all these other qualities that are actually nothing to do with that quality, but you start just giving them away. And so my take is be more of someone who's going to experience someone's energy and be. Decide that rather than assuming it exists because of something else you've seen.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Some of this is just sitting down and thinking about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I know sometimes those things are hard when you're also flooded with hormones. And that's what it is.

[A]

That's what it is.

[B]

Like, you're like, well, I don't want to sit down and have to, like, be discerning about whether or not, you know, I just want to believe he's like the superstar that I think he is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, we all do it, though. You can. You can't really fault, but at some point, you have to actually think about it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you should only think about it if you want to take care of your heart in six months. Right. Like that. That's. That's. That's why, like, you don't have to think about it. You can just go with your feelings and you can feel great for three months, six months, and then end up in a situation you don't want to be in. And so the only reason that you have to be discerning or reflective or thoughtful about this is to protect yourself. And I think now more and more, we have to protect ourselves. And when I say protect ourselves, I don't mean don't go on dates. I'm not saying don't go meet people. I'm not saying, you know, don't have fun. I'm just saying that you've got to be thoughtful with your emotions. And I think we often leave our emotions at the door when we're attracted to someone or when we're infatuated or find someone to be especially out of our league. I think that's a really interesting idea that's been planted by media that when you think, think someone's out of your league. And again, that idea comes from movies and TV and all the rest of it. And it's like. Well, based on what? Like, if you're saying someone's out of your league, chances are you're only looking at them through one lens.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because you're not looking at the full relationship. You're not looking at it. 360.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's also okay to check in with yourself and say, I made a mistake. I want to unchoose this choice. Like, you know, like, maybe you dated for money and success, and you get into that and you're like, I'm inside of this big home, and from the outside, it looks great, but I'm not happy in the home. You know, it's okay. I think we're really afraid to, like, admit, like, we up and, like, admit, quote, unquote, failure, but it's fine to unchoose that choice, and it's better than staying longer.

[A]

Yeah. I had a client who'd married someone who's extremely wealthy and then felt controlled by his family and their security. So security had to follow around everywhere

[B]

because, like, security, Security.

[A]

Security guards. Security guards. Yeah. Rain is already. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We'll hook you up with a security guard. But. But yeah, security guards had to be around her. Like, and, and they weren't, they weren't famous, they were wealthy. But that, that was.

[C]

No, I know you interview a lot of famous people, Jack.

[A]

They had to, they had to take out, you know, they had to get permission to leave the home.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, and it wasn't that the person wasn't good to them, it was just their lifestyle. The ramifications. Yeah, it's hard being married and that's very extreme, of course, but.

[B]

Yeah, well, you taught you're obsessed with love and you, you know, you wrote a book about it. But in general, and one of the themes I love is that like just putting more love out into the world to get it back. And we love the importance of non romantic love too. And I just love talking about this topic because I am not in a romantic relationship, but I feel so full of love with my family and my friends and now my passions in life. And love for myself, of course too. And so I just would love to speak on that because I think that if you feel devoid of love completely, it seems like you would be more inclined to enter into an unhealthy romantic relationship because you're almost desperate for love.

[A]

Yeah. I think we've placed romantic love at the top of the hierarchy of love. So we believe that if you have a person, then your life is perfect and almost all the other love you have in your life is insignificant. Like, it's not as important, it's secondary. It's secondary for sure. It's like, okay, if I have a person, then my life is perfect. If I don't, then my life is imperfect no matter how much love I have. And I was working with a lot of single moms, like, coaching, and I was like, wait a minute. These single moms, like, adore their children and their children adore. Draw them like, love them like anything. And I was like, so are we saying that love is not as important as the love that a romantic couple has? I was like, well, are we evaluating that love is less worth it or like siblings? I know siblings that absolutely love each other, that have each other's back, that have a great bond. My sister's like that, right? Like I was talking about her before, like, my sister has my back no matter what, I have hers. And I think that that's a beautiful source of love in my life that I've had in my life for my whole life. And I would never say that that was less than the love I have in my wife. It's different, but it's not less than in terms of the Experience of love. And so I think what we've done is we've placed romantic love on a pedestal. And because of that, we feel unworthy and inadequate when we have actually all this other love in our lives. And I think if you actually looked around at your life, you'd realize you have so much love from your family, you have so much love from your friends, you have so much love. If you do have children, you have so much love from your parents and the love you have for your parents. I mean, my wife right now is in London because her grandmother's in hospital, and she's with her grandmother because her grandmother is her favorite person on earth. And I have no issue saying that. Like, I know my wife. Like, I have no issues why she's saying that, because watching my wife love her grandmother and her grandmother's love for her is so beautiful. And so I would hope that anyone who's single or someone who's broken up recently or someone who's actually been with someone for decades and now it hasn't worked out, please don't think your life is over or incomplete because of that, because there's so many more people to love and receive love from.

[C]

It is so true. And I think it's a beautiful sentiment. And I think it goes back to what you were saying in the beginning that people were taught to be embarrassed to be at a wedding by ourselves. And I think that we grow up feeling like, you know, even if I check the box of, like, success and money and hobbies and friends, that, like, if I don't check the romance box, that, like, everything is terrible.

[A]

Totally.

[C]

And I remember thinking, after the worst breakup of my life, all the people that swarmed around me, all the people that came over to, like, sit shovel with me as I was wanting to break up. Thank you. People that, like, brought me food or took our engagement presents, put them on the curb for me. The amount of people that just circulated through my home just to make sure I was okay, make sure I didn't sleep alone at night, it meant so much to me, and it made me be like, oh, my God, I have so much in my life that why did I hang onto this relationship that I knew wasn't right? And even though he was a kind person, I didn't really want to marry this person. Why did I hang on to this? Because I was like, oh, my God, look at all these things around me. But sometimes it almost takes, like, a terrible situation to realize that.

[A]

And the sad thing is, those are often the people that get forgotten. When you're in a relationship, Right. A lot of the time, like, you have this amazing community, a great group of people around you. You get into a relationship, you forget about all those amazing people. But when you break up, they're there to help you. When your partner's traveling, they're there to help you.

[B]

And those are the. The people that are the ones that are there. I mean, Raina and I, we do have this podcast about dating and sex and relationships, but people really feel like it's about our relationship with each other and just female friendship in general. And everyone ever, we do a friendship episode, just crush, crush it. I love that friendship podcast. But it's. Those are the. The real deal. Those like long term friends and family. And I love what you said too. I mean, when my dog passed, my previous dog, like, the. The outpouring of love, like, healed my heart. Like, it really was the thing that helped me get through it. People were like, you really were able to get through that traumatic experience. It was. It was pretty rough, but it was like, that was how. That was literally how just feeling the love from other people, it heals you.

[C]

It does. You. You brought up something that I think is interesting. It's. Sometimes we do get in relationships and we just jettison everything. Yeah.

[B]

Because we have it on the pedestal like nothing else matters. So if, like, if you. You get the top love, the other ones fall by the wayside, literally.

[C]

Yeah. And it's important, I think, to really check in with yourself, because I didn't. In my 20s, I didn't say to myself, like, well, maybe I don't need to be with him every day of the week. Maybe I should have more dinners with my friends and I have to call him. Like a girls night out. Maybe I could just have a night out with my friends and enjoy it a little more and prioritize these people more. And it became such a priority for me after that breakup because you're like, these people are still here and they still want us to. But we do forget to do that.

[A]

I think sometimes I think in a relationship, and I break this down in the book, I set up, like, an ideal week.

[B]

The calendar. Yeah, I want to be on the calendar.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And I'm not saying you have to live your week that way. It was just an idea of the things to think about. I think when we get into a relationship, we think about, oh, it's just me and them, and if me and them are good, then things are good, and if me and them are bad, then things are Bad. And all of our obsession becomes about, well, how are me and them, I. E. The person you're with? And actually, there's time you need by yourself every week. I think everyone needs a break. No matter how much you love each other. It's why friendship works so well. It's because you don't see each other 24, seven every single day.

[C]

Why? We don't fly together on the same. In the same area, really. We fly the same flight.

[A]

We just don't sit together. Don't sit together. Do you really do that?

[C]

We just don't. We just try to not. We're together a lot. We'd like to take space from each other. We're not a romantic partner. But.

[A]

And can you imagine? So you do that as friends. And it wasn't awkward at all. Imagine you said to your partner, like, someone you were dating, and you were like, you know what? I don't want to sit next to you on the plane because I think we should take some time out. Like, it would be seen as, like, everything's ending.

[B]

Yes. And I. I know that Rain and I don't have a romantic relationship. Duh. The things that we're able to do. I want so badly in a romantic partner one day where I could be like, I need a little space or

[C]

like, you know, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

Really clearly communicate. And it. It's not an insult. And it doesn't mean I love her any less or anything like that.

[A]

But that's what I'm saying. Right? So, like, spending time alone. Second thing is spending time with that person, obviously. The third thing is spending time with your own friends. I find a lot of people's relationships hide in big groups of couples. So people are always spending time with lots of couples and they're. They're in a relationship, but then they never spend time alone, they never spend time with their own friends, and they never spend that much time with each other unless they're surrounded by lots of people. And you can hide in that. You can hide your relationship in that space and constantly look for external forms of stimulation to feel excited about your own relationship. And so I think an ideal week or an ideal month includes time by yourself, time with your partner, time with your own friends, and time with collective friends. And that's like a healthy balance of the different relationships you need in your life.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

And you really lay it out so easily. You can just. Just map it out. Map your week out. I mean, this is. My parents have been married for 40 years. Not that Length matters, but they're still.

[C]

They're like, yeah, but they're really happy.

[B]

They're like a different level. And so much of that is the separate friends. My mom has more friends than anyone I know. She's the busiest retiree. Like, she has so many activities and friends and different groups of friends. They travel separately. She goes on girls trips all the time. Like, it never changed. And you see couples that. That's it. It's just the someone's mom and dad and they have no friends, and they're together every night. They have the same routine, and it really gives me the ick.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, you can't.

[B]

You.

[C]

You can't let having nothing else in your life be the reason to stay with this person. It's a really dangerous place to be. I think we start to make really bad decisions about our own mental health and sometimes our safety when we have no. Nothing else in our lives. It's a really bad thing to do for yourself. So the more you can have friends outside of your relationship and the more you can travel. I remember this relationship ended. I was like, I've never traveled. What the have I been doing all these years? And it's. You make a lot of decisions based on, I can't lose this because I'll lose everything, and it's a bad place to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we've done a lot of talk about being single and some, you know, pitfalls of being a relationship. But I would love to turn around and just hear what you. You feel like is the best thing about romantic love and, like, your relationship, like, how does it. What do you feel like the best part of that type of relationship is?

[A]

From my own experience.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So I haven't seen my wife for 10 days. We're used to spending time apart because I travel for work, she travels for work, she goes back to London, and I'm. I'm happy and good and things are great. And then I'll FaceTime her and be like, wow, I'm so much more happy when I see your face. Like, it's like that moment where it's like, oh, wow, I was good. I didn't even. Actually, I was fine. Like, things were great. And then all of a sudden, I realized how great they could be. And I think that's one of my favorite things about being in a relationship is the reminder for me of just how incredible things can be. If I had to say, I'll give a fun answer, and I'll give a deeper answer. A fun answer is like, I love having someone that I can do so many normal things with. Right? Like, someone that you're happy to do anything and everything with. It doesn't have to be this amazing date. It doesn't have to be something incredible. It can be as simple as, like, oh, we're just gonna go shopping. We're just gonna go for a walk. We're just gonna go do this. You know, we're just. I think having someone that you can do everyday things with, but it still feels meaningful, is actually a really beautiful thing to do. The ordinary. With my wife, one of our favorite things to do together is try out new things together. And so whether it's escape rooms, whether it's a pottery class, a cooking class, whether it's a rage room, we literally went. I don't know if you've ever been to a rage. We broke stuff. Very uncomfortable. So. Oh, here's a tip. So usually people go there when they're mad, and it de. Stresses you. The problem is, we went there quite peaceful, and it stressed us out. So. So do not go. Only go if you want to hit a picture of an ex or, you know, like, yeah, can you bring them? You can bring pictures. They actually said to us, they're like, who do you want to hit today? I was like, we're good. You. I don't think you can start fire, but they give you.

[C]

Start a fire. I almost missed that. I'm so glad that I did not. Ashley's like, can I commit arson in the room if that doesn't exist?

[B]

We're starting that.

[C]

In attraction fire rooms, they give you baseball bats.

[A]

They give you. There's. There's like, all old broken computers, fax machines. They give you bottles that, like all this old stuff, and they lock you in a room. And me and my wife walked out stressed, but then they told us afterwards

[B]

this was a mistake.

[C]

Yeah, that's so true. Don't go unless you really need rage.

[A]

And we didn't need it. We didn't need it. So that was so I. We love. And this is part of something I talk about that I think a lot of couples today, the. The studies show that the most common thing we do, and it's. We don't even need to study. We know this. The most common thing we do with our partners is watch tv, right? Like, that's what we do. And there's no surprise that intimacy is dropping, depths dropping, physical connections dropping, because all we do is watch TV together.

[C]

That's so true.

[A]

There's no shared experience. There's no connection. There's no feeling of, like, oh, we just did that together. We experienced something together. There's no, like, oh, you're more attractive after watching that TV program. You know, you don't feel any of that after watching a show on tv. Whereas when you do something fun and new and exciting, your partner's more exciting. They're more fresh, they're more attractive, they're more interesting. You get more curious. Like, so much happens when you do things. My wife right now is really into extreme sports. Everywhere we go, she's like, I want to surf. I want to wakeboard. And it's like, she's such a badass. And watching. Yeah, watching her do that is so cool. I'm not joining in, right? Because I'm like, I'm good. I'm. You know. But it's. It's so. You feel so much more attracted to your partner when totally seeing them do things they, like, love, and they're seeing you do things you love. And so I think that's been a big, big part of what's kept our relationship so fun and exciting and fresh is that she's constantly seeing me grow in so many ways. I'm seeing her grow in so many ways. And that allows for that spark to stay. As opposed to, like, you only see your partner cook the same meal, clean the same place, do the laundry, which is. Which we all do normal. But it's like, if you're only seeing your partner do those things, how are you suddenly gonna feel that energy towards.

[C]

You're so right. It doesn't breed new experiences. I think about this all the time. I used to work in a restaurant, and somebody came in to buy a gift card for a wedding. They bought a gift card to all the restaurants, and the message on the gift card said, never stop dating as their marriage gift. And I. That's very much what you're describing. You're married, but you guys don't ever stop dating. And that is so inspiring to me. And you always just want to create new experiences because, like, what is there to talk about if every day we come home, we just watch tv?

[A]

Or your date is dinners and a movie, right? Like, even that. Like, dating in that way. Like, let's do date night, okay? We'll go for dinner. We'll both be on our phones. We'll say we went out on date night, then we watched a movie together and went to sleep.

[B]

Well. And you can. Even if that's the lowest level, that's all you got. At least go somewhere new restaurant Wise try a different type of cuisine or, you know, such low hanging fruit is a comedy show.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, love that idea.

[B]

There's so much to do. And I also understand when you're just tired. I, I get it. I have all the empathy in the world for people that have a bunch of kids and you're like, it's almost like, maybe that's not what's happening in this season of our lives, but eventually we can get back there. And I think you see couples go through those waves where all they can do with this house of kids is watch tv and that's really all they got.

[A]

And that makes sense for that.

[B]

But then you come out of it and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and then there's babysitters, too. Like, I just think, again, I can't give relationship advice to people that have been married for. Married for one ever. But it's, it's, it's such a good call of like, what else do you have to talk about? And keep it fresh and exciting.

[C]

You know what I like to, like, step it up a level is like, instead of the dusty old movie theaters, I love those, like, ones with the giant seats that recline. They serve you food and alcohol while you're in the seats. Like, step it up a little or

[B]

go to the drive in, make out

[C]

in the car,

[B]

get fingered.

[C]

Yes. Bring some smear on. Have Isis give a job.

[B]

Yeah, she took it there.

[C]

Well, you asked us something as we were wrapping up on your show. It really was such a pleasure. And we encourage people to go listen to that because, gosh, I loved it so much. What would you say is some of your best relationship advice? What's the best relationship advice?

[A]

No one ever asked me this back. So now.

[B]

Or that you've heard. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Or that you've heard.

[A]

All right, let me.

[C]

Take your time. We'll add it. We'll add it out. The pause.

[A]

No, you can keep the pause in. I want it to be a thoughtful answer.

[C]

I really.

[B]

Another burning question, too.

[C]

You can give three things. Whatever.

[A]

Best relationship advice I've ever heard received or given.

[B]

See, it's tough.

[A]

It is very tough. Very tough.

[C]

We're going to do the worst also in a second.

[A]

Yeah, do it. I'd say the best advice is don't be afraid to grow, but make sure you communicate it to your partner.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So I think often we're changing and growing, but we don't communicate in the change and the transition. We communicate. Communicate when it's done. And then our partner.

[B]

And then you flash them behind Then

[A]

our partner has to catch up. So often what happens is we've gone through three years of internal turmoil and we finally made it like we're there where we want to be. Now we tell our partner what's going on, but they didn't have three years to witness it and experience it. And so you're expecting them in three minutes to understand something you took three years to do, and then you feel that they don't understand you and they're not with you, and it's not true. They just need time to catch up.

[B]

Yeah, I love that.

[C]

That was really beautiful. Do you want to ask your question or should we get the worst advice first?

[A]

Yeah, I'll do the worst. Let's do the worst.

[C]

What's. Yeah. What do you think the worst dating advice is? It can be grab bag. It'd be a couple things.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I like it. You made me think, and I think something better came out. So let me have another kid. It will work out.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

You know, like, I've had, like, I've had. So many of my friends have been told, hold that.

[C]

By who?

[A]

Literally, I've like, genuinely. Or have a kid. It will work out. Like, just make that the.

[B]

It will legally bind you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And more so than a marriage.

[A]

Well, like, I've had a lot of people that I know, at least, that have, you know, honestly opened up and told me that that's the advice they got. They're like, if you've got issues, have a kid. You guys will bond. It'll be a bond like no other. And it's like, you can't use a kid. Is that like, can't use a kid to bond? Like, a kid should deepen your bond, but it's not to use it as the bond.

[B]

It's so interesting to now observe my brother and his wife with their new baby and with Jay. Baby Jay. I can't imagine. Well, I mean, I have all the respect in the world for a single parent. It's like, it's because of how difficult it is. And on top of potentially a single parent just being in a relationship that's not loving and healthy because of what you have to do together. Like, and people do this and again, all the respect in the world for them. This is not an insult, but it's so much better when there is love there and partnership and you're on the same team, like, just to watch them work together because of the constant around the clock care that it takes to raise a human and a healthy human you know, because those attachment styles really start at birth. I feel like we're seeing so much more research about how early those things. Things really do start and how important it is. I can't imagine it any other way. And I feel for people who don't have that. And if you have that, you're so lucky, because it's just. It's. It's hard to fathom that you wouldn't feel that support and that 50, 50 partnership, raising a literal person. Yeah.

[C]

Your brother, I asked him at Christmas dinner, I was like, what. What has your experience been being a new father do. Is it harder than people said? Is it easier? And he said, I don't know, it's. He said, I just. I have the best partner in the world to do this with. And he was like, I'm just so lucky I have her. She's just, like, the best. And it's nice to see two people be a team that really wanted to do this together. Right. That's the dream.

[B]

They both wanted it so badly, too. And then sometimes you see, like, a parent that's like, didn't really want it that bad, and then they're a little checked out and so. Okay, my question. How do you meditate? I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Someone who. There's so much and what you do for a living. And also in the book of just stillness and being with yourself and meditation and things like this, I think it seems so intimidating to some people. Like, is there any advice you have or anything for someone that's like, I gotta start doing this. I gotta start being with myself. I have to stop letting my mind run wild and really sit and meditate and do these things. Do you have any 101 place to start?

[A]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm genuinely not saying this as a plug. I'm saying it because we created for this reason. But people can meditate with me every single day on the Calm app. Seven minutes every single day.

[C]

We talked about it.

[B]

Calm.

[A]

It's seven minutes every single day. It's new content every single day. Yeah, every single day.

[B]

That's right. It's a Daily J.

[A]

It's called the Daily J. Yeah. The whole reason why I created that is because I always got this question, okay, saying, jay, how do I meditate? And I'd always say, well, read this book or try this or try that. And it would just be like, well, someone's going to do that for three days and give up.

[C]

Up.

[A]

And so that's why we launched the Daily J, because You can literally meditate with me every single day on the Calm app. And the 7 minutes is designed with everything from breathing to an insight to a reflection. So anyone who struggles with doing any of this stuff on their own, it gives you every aspect of what to do on your own. And so if you listen to every day, you get a bit of breath work to calm you down, to still your body, to steal your mind. You get an insights, you've learned something new. You feel like you're to going, growing. And you'll get a reflection that you can take out and do with a friend or a family member or whatever it may be. And so that really sets you up to already have a really simple and easy meditation practice.

[B]

Well, I'm just going to go with it then. Calm.comGGE for 40% off your premium subscription. I'm not kidding.

[A]

And if you're struggling to start the other way, like if you're like, oh gee, I don't want to do meditation, but I want to spend time with myself. And that's a very valid thought. What I would do, and I was going to talk about this earlier, I'm glad you asked this question is whether you've just been broken up with or whether you're single. Go and do something hard alone. Like, go and do something hard. If you do something hard, I promise you breaking up won't feel that hard anymore because you'll realize how strong you are. And I find that when people take up a sport, when people take up a new challenge, when people go and sign up to a new class, when you go and break through limits that you thought you had mentally or physically or emotionally, so many of these feelings take care of themselves because you realize your self worth and your own value.

[C]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

Go do something hard. Go do something tough on your own or with a friend or with a family member. It can be with other people too. But go do something difficult and you'll realize getting over someone wasn't as difficult as that.

[B]

That is incredible advice. And it can be something as simple as, I heard this on an episode of yours. An ice bath.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like you can do it. You know, that's a nightmare for some people and it's good for your body to get out of there and be like, I breathed through that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Got through that.

[A]

It's worth giving it a go, definitely. And if you do it, partner up with infrared sauna if you can. So you want to do three to seven minutes in the ice tub and then 15 minutes in the sauna and do three cycles. Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Sounds amazing and terrifying.

[B]

I love that. I really.

[A]

It was scary the first time I did it. I did it out of peer pressure. Pressure. Just so you know.

[B]

That's scary.

[A]

Yeah, it is scary. The first time I did it, I was so scared. I only did it out of peer pressure. And because the person I was doing it with lasted four minutes, I had to last four minutes too. It's. I was in there for the first time for four minutes, which is really difficult.

[C]

That's really crazy.

[A]

And. But then when I broke through that, I was like, I can do this.

[B]

Like, I could handle a breakup. I could handle divorce.

[A]

Yeah. You can add a lot of stuff. I just think that a lot of limits are in our mind. Right. And so the more limits you break in your mind, you start going, oh, wow. Like, I'm so much stronger than I thought I was.

[C]

Yeah. Traveling by myself. I was like, oh, shit. I really can do anything. You don't have to be go to Cambodia by yourself. Like I did. But I mean, just.

[A]

That's cool.

[C]

Just go upstate. Just take a drive by yourself. Seriously. I mean, not everybody has the money and the time to go take some crazy trip, go one night upstate and stay overnight by yourself. And you're like, I handled this by myself. I did this all alone. Or jump in a nice place or

[B]

even go to dinner by yourself. I have some people's nightmare. I love doing it, but I definitely love, like a solo breakfast lunch. You know, you can bring a book if you feel like you need a crutch. But just if that's scary to you, do that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Or just watch other couples be on their phones.

[C]

My favorite thing in the world is watching couples not talk to each other. I'm just like, I would so much rather be alone. It is so fascinating to me. I was just in Venice, my brother and his wife and I was. There was this couple next to us not speaking. And I was like, look at them. They're not talking. Mar was like, what? And I was like, they're not talking. And my sister in law was like, what are you saying? And I was like, they're not talking. And she was like, they're not talking to each other. And I was like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing. You ruined it for me. Now they are talking about us to each other.

[A]

You gave them something to talk about. I did.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Now we have a common enemy.

[C]

Yeah. Find a common enemy. Yeah. It'll build any bond. Well, Jay, this was such a Pleasure. We love doing your show as well. So I want to direct people to your show so they can find you our episode. But everything that you do, and if you want to plug your vegan chef wife also, whatever, please. I'm sure people will want more and more and more of you and the book. So tell everybody where to go.

[A]

So thankful, so grateful to you. I love having such a real conversation about relationships and love and I'm so glad where it went. But for anyone who would like to read the book, it's 8rules of love.com. you can order on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. Wherever you read books, you can also listen to it if you prefer audiobooks. I read it myself and so some

[B]

people are going to be into that for sure.

[C]

I am. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, they love the voice.

[A]

But thank you so much. Honestly, thank you to everyone who's been listening and watching as well. You have a amazing, amazing audience and I really appreciate this time. Thank you.

[C]

Thank you so much. This is a pleasure.

[B]

Well, we hope you guys enjoyed the interview and you can find us atgirls gotta eat.com show tickets, merchandise, all of our episodes, all the things Girls Gotta Eat podcast and Instagram. I'm Ash hess. Raina is raina.greenberg and vibesonly.com for our other company and subscribe to the YouTube of course. And we'll see you next week.

[C]

Have a good week, guys.

[B]

Bye. Spring just slid into your DMs.

[C]

Grab that boho.

[B]

Look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you. And hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling, Ross, Work your magic.