← Girls Gotta Eat
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- [00:00]
A
So many people want to be having better sex, but they don't really know where to start because the options seem limitless. And they are. But how do you even figure out where to begin?
- [00:24]
B
This podcast is a Dear Media production.
- [00:27]
C
Hi, guys.
- [00:27]
B
Hi, guys.
- [00:28]
C
Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.
- [00:31]
B
Feels good to have you back.
- [00:34]
C
You peeked over the fence, didn't you?
- [00:36]
B
Listen, we. The episode came out with Shashank and it was really great. I know.
- [00:41]
C
Really great.
- [00:42]
B
Cute. And he did a great job. But we did it. We did have to do a test run. I will say that. And I love that about him. He doesn't want to do this.
- [00:52]
C
Listen, couldn't be me being with somebody who needs to hold a microphone 100%. Find me a man that wants no presence anywhere besides in my bedroom.
- [01:00]
B
When we filmed his video for Kitchen Sink, I was like, we are at no risk of him wanting to become an influencer. He fucking hated it. He hated that. He hated this. He loved, you know, doing Girls Gotta Eat. He loves the podcast, but he does not have any desire. And that's what I want in a podcast.
- [01:16]
C
What a gift. Yeah. What a gift. Listen, I. I woke up this morning and I read the comments on Spotify. Cause it was our first week doing video on Spotify. And I mean, it's the most comments I've ever seen on Spotify that early in the morning. And I was like, oh, people, like, love him. People, like, love the dynamic. They love to see you guys again. It made me, like, so happy to be, like, if I can't be in my home, then, like, somebody that I love who represents me well is in my home.
- [01:38]
B
Who doesn't want your job?
- [01:39]
C
Doesn't. Well, he can't have it, but he's
- [01:42]
B
not coming for it. He's not coming for even, you know, like, in. Nobody wants this. They brought in, like, Noah. Noah's Corner or whatever.
- [01:49]
C
Yeah, whatever they call it.
- [01:50]
B
Whatever they called it. Yeah. Like, no, he wants no part of that. Like, he was like, I don't want to be given dating advice. I don't want people to want anything for me.
- [01:58]
C
I just listen. I love Andrew Collins so much. He's one of our closest friends. I love him so much. But I podcast with him twice as the only other co host.
- [02:06]
B
Yeah.
- [02:06]
C
And I missed you. I always miss you.
- [02:08]
B
This seems like a man problem.
- [02:10]
C
Oh, you've men. I would be a little more concerned if it was a woman. I really would. Like. I could see, like, some of our friends, like Taylor Strecker co hosting with you and I would be a little more concerned.
- [02:18]
B
Oh, I just meant, like, they're not as good because they're men. That's where I was going and are the problem. Next time, we'll have women, less men
- [02:28]
C
on this show and on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.
- [02:30]
B
No, we love Andrew. We love Shashank. Obviously.
- [02:33]
C
You married him. Yeah.
- [02:34]
B
So I'm wearing a bodysuit today, and it's. You know, I always like to say, just if I appear to be uncomfortable, that's why. But, Raina, I have to tell you something. I went to this concert. I'm going to talk about the concert. I saw a girl. I was coming out of the bathroom. She was in the lobby of the Peacock Theater, which, by the way, is where we went to that Joe Biden thing, remember? Just so you have been to the theater, so you can picture it. She's in the wild. She's by the bar, bodysuit hanging out the back over her jeans.
- [02:59]
C
I feel that.
- [03:00]
B
I feel that. What a queen. But you can tuck it in your pan. And she might have been, like, drunk, but, like, we've all been there. We've all unsnapped our bodysuit, and we keep it tucked.
- [03:10]
A
She.
- [03:11]
B
I was like, her was on that. Like, she's got.
- [03:14]
C
Her toilet paper is hanging off the back of her shirt.
- [03:17]
B
I was like, her bodysuit flap is hanging down her ass crack. That was just in her.
- [03:22]
C
Like, I couldn't.
- [03:24]
B
No, I think she was. She just living life purposeful.
- [03:27]
C
Yeah. Okay.
- [03:27]
B
Like, she's like, let it fly.
- [03:29]
C
It's sort of like when there's toilet paper on your shoe. I mean, it is kind of that in the shirt world. Like, that is her toilet paper.
- [03:34]
B
I think it was intentional.
- [03:36]
C
I was actually so glad you told me. I have to tell you this. I did two shows in Philly last week, and first show went great. My shirt was tight. And the second show, like, my opener got on stage, and I was like, I have to go to the bathroom. And he was like, then go to the bathroom. I was like, I don't think I can get this off without you zipping it back up for me. And he was like, just unbutton it. I was like, okay, I'll unbutton it. So I unbuttoned it, went to the bathroom, did rebutton it, but I only did one button instead of two. I got on stage, actually, that thing unsnapped five minutes into my set, and what was I going to do? I had to perform the whole set with it unbuttoned.
- [04:04]
B
Yeah, this happened to me in New Haven.
- [04:07]
C
I feel it in my stomach.
- [04:08]
B
I'm uncomfortable. I sat down and it was like. It was like a fart where the two snaps just bust open.
- [04:14]
C
Do you remember this?
- [04:15]
B
And I had to go up to the side of the stage and I was just down in here. You were out there like, so what's up, guys? How's everybody feeling? You're like crowd working by yourself. I was like, bella, help me, like, and I never got it snapped. Like, I just had to perform like that. But at least I could try. You are up there alone.
- [04:31]
C
I could have asked him to, like, tap back in for a minute. But I mean, the last thing that you and I want is to be like, aware of our bodies on stage like that. Like, I don't know you. And I always think, like, can we sit in this outfit? And so I don't want to be aware of my clothing as I'm trying to give an hour long monologue. I mean, it was on my mind the entire time.
- [04:49]
B
That was on you, though, only snapping one. It was raining.
- [04:52]
C
You can crazy. You're just. You can never chaotic.
- [04:55]
B
Ladies. Don't ever think one snap is going to hold in your pussy. Like, it's just the weight of the
- [05:01]
C
world is on that one little button. And it's crazy. And I just like, was so aware of it. But I do have a lot of body suits coming up. I mean, I have Bodysuit Nation for this tour.
- [05:10]
B
Yeah, I mean, you know, do what
- [05:11]
C
you got to do. Want to. It's just that's what I picked for my clothing.
- [05:15]
B
Hello. A bodysuit queen over here. I love them, but I just. Sometimes you can. I did wear bodysuits that concert and I. When I saw hers hanging out her back, I was like, jealous. Okay, let's thank our partners.
- [05:27]
C
All right. Thanks to Spark. Get 30% off plus free shipping at Drink Spark.com with code GGE and SKIMS. Get our favorite bras and underwear@skims.com GGE
- [05:37]
B
and a thank you to Hungryroot. Get 40 off your first box and a free item in every box for life@hungryroot.com GGE with code GGE and thank you to Nature's Sunshine. Get 20 off your first order and free shipping at naturesunshine.com with code GGE.
- [05:55]
C
Okay.
- [05:55]
B
Okay.
- [05:56]
C
Do you want to talk about the concert? Like, the actual concert?
- [05:58]
B
Yes. So I went to the R B Lovers concert headliner Keith Sweat, which is not why I was there. Okay. Joe. Remember Joe. I wanna know what turns you on. And then he did Stutter. Stutter. Do you remember that song, Stutter, Stutter.
- [06:17]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [06:17]
B
With mystical.
- [06:18]
C
It's just Joe.
- [06:19]
B
Just Joe.
- [06:22]
C
Like J, O, E. Just Joe. Kind of my head. I wouldn't have known that. Not like Fat Joe. Just Joe.
- [06:27]
B
Just Joe. Just Joe. You should change it, too. And then who I was really there to see Genuine and Drew Hill. And obviously Cisco is the lead singer of Drew Hill. And I was Thong Song.
- [06:38]
C
Yes. I'll know this. You're an R B lover on a level that I'm not.
- [06:42]
B
Right. So Cisco is the lead singer of Drew Hill. And then he had his solo era. And that album is one of my favorite albums. Unleash the Dragon is one of my favorite albums. And Thong songs on that track eight. And it's like Caleb, my best guy friend from high school who's at my wedding. It's like our album, like, we listened to all through high school. I remember when it came out, we would ride around his Civic just bumping it. So I'm a huge fan of Cisco Alone. The Thong song at my wedding was the most hype moment of the night, aside from the very last song.
- [07:10]
C
Yeah.
- [07:10]
B
People kept coming up to me, like, I haven't ever gotten that lit on the Thong song. I'm like, you have not been.
- [07:16]
C
I've only ever gotten that lit on the Thong song.
- [07:18]
B
And Genuine. So here's the thing. Keith Sweat is 60.
- [07:22]
C
What?
- [07:23]
B
He is an older performer. So I feel like Keith Sweat is a different, not kind of generation that's a little more Gen X. And then Drew Hill is our generation. Genuine's our generation. Joe kind of bridges the gap. But this was Key Sweat headlining tour. And it became apparent as I realized how old the crowd was. So I love an older crowd. Like, I love that. Being at the Lovers and Friends festival, I was like, everyone is like late 30s, 40s, not as many 50s and 60s at a festival. They're not going to the festival in Vegas. And the heat, Raina, the old heads up in this concert hall. Like, people were sitting all night. Like, people had fans. I mean, people were like. At one point, the DJ came on and was like, make some noise if you 50 plus. Like, I was like, how am I 42? The youngest person in the room.
- [08:10]
C
Did you like it, though?
- [08:11]
B
I fucking loved it. Like, that energy. These are my people. But it skewed older because Keith Sweat was the headliner. So a lot of these people stayed seated until Keith Sweat came on. They had to just save up. And there was, like, pockets of people who are like, these are my Cisco girlies. You know, like you could tell the crowd was kind of divided into like millennial Gen X Boomer.
- [08:31]
C
Okay. This is honestly my dream vibe for a concert. Okay. I just sometimes I avoid going to concerts because I'm like, I don't want to stand and sway the entire time. And like after Taylor Swift, after the ERAS tour, I was like, I just had a workout. Like, I mean that's the top.
- [08:45]
B
Beyonce, our Beyonce killing us.
- [08:47]
C
That's the top for me. Taylor Swift, I knew every single song. I was like doing the concert with her for four hours obviously. But like we went to Third Eye Blind and we got to sit for like more than 50% of that concert. Like, what a pleasure. You just stand up for like semi charmed life and like when Machine Gun Kelly was there and then that's it. You could just relax.
- [09:04]
B
What a dream. So what I will also say, not as much filming on cell phones.
- [09:10]
C
Wow.
- [09:10]
B
Cause it's like an older crowd. I mean people got their one videos, but I just, I love an older crowd and I love to feel young. When else do I get to go to a concert and feel like the youngest person? Never.
- [09:22]
C
It never happens. Third Eye Blind was the first time you took me in. I it to me, it was the first time I've ever been that young
- [09:27]
B
at a 90s groups. Okay. So Genuine came out first. They started 8 o' clock on the dot.
- [09:33]
C
People got a bedtime.
- [09:34]
B
I was in the merch line.
- [09:36]
C
One person like you need to be. I thought that.
- [09:38]
B
Cuz I'm like, you never really know. But also with acts like that, they aren't divas anymore. Like you better start on time. People aren't going to wait around. And yes, people got to go to bed. So Genuine came out, played, played all the hits, ended with pony, no notes. Then Cisco came out, did a few of his solo tracks. I was like, thong Song, here we go, let's go. He did not do Thong Song.
- [09:58]
C
Ashley, get the fuck out of here.
- [10:00]
B
I am still so upset and confused and I just feel like there has to be a reason why. He played another song from the solo album, a deep cut. He sampled the DMX song that I know all the words to that all the women's names. I was so shook by this. How do you not play Thong Song? And everyone's gonna get on their feet like dun dun dun dun dun. Like you hear it start. I'm hype even thinking about it.
- [10:20]
C
Okay. I mean I do understand as an artist, you're I can't do this again, everybody. It's too much. It doesn't matter. This is the number one song. This is what people come for. You gotta give me the thong song. I wore my thong for this.
- [10:32]
B
A hundred percent. That girl unsnapped her bodysuits hanging down her back for this. So I didn't really understand. They were all great, everybody. They still got it, you know? And I really did love the concert. But there was a point where Joe. I was gonna post this, and I do have a reel. I did a whole reel for the night if you want to go look at my Instagram. But I took a video and Joe was on stage sitting in like kind of a throne. And just for like one song, it was a. It was like a prop for whatever.
- [10:59]
C
I miss sitting at show, I pay on the audience.
- [11:01]
B
I'm like, when everyone has to sit, even the talent, like, this is how you know you're at a 40 plus concert. Also, I went with two moms of three kids. So Brooke and then her friend she grew up with, and Brooke drove us and we're going out to the car. And I was like, you can sit in the front, whatever. Her name is Sharon. And they were like, no, Ashley, you sit in the front. I was like, oh, because we're going to be in a mom car. Sharon sat in between two car seats in the back. I was like, this is the most millennial, elder millennial. You're riding in the car seat. Crumbs everywhere on my seat. To go see these 90s groups, to go see Keith Sweat.
- [11:34]
C
We had a good run. That's most people's experience in their 30s. Okay. We made it to our 40s before we had to sit between car seats. But I thank God.
- [11:41]
B
It was just so funny, though. No, no, Ashley, you, you, you sit up front. You're not going to lodge yourself between two car seat.
- [11:48]
C
You're so lucky because, you know, they would have made me do it. They'd be like, raina, you're the smallest person in this car seat. You're the size of the car seat actually, right? Just get in the car seat.
- [11:56]
B
So that. It was just great. I mean, I love these bands so much and I just. When they were like, if you 50 or older, make some noise, I was like, oh, my God, am I that young?
- [12:07]
C
You're young for that crowd. And that's. That's the kind of experience I think I want.
- [12:12]
B
So many dapper middle aged men with like a hat on. You can picture it.
- [12:17]
C
It's honestly, it's the no phones thing. Also, for me, it's just people being able to enjoy a concert. I'm part of the problem too. I get it. But like, man, that's nice not seeing a thousand phones.
- [12:26]
B
But I. I think like, we're all in the same boat where we're gonna take a few videos of our favorite songs. But you know those people that film the whole concert? For what?
- [12:35]
C
Well, it's like fireworks. No. Who.
- [12:36]
B
What do you want?
- [12:37]
C
No one. No one wants to see this. Who's watching this? You're never gonna watch it again.
- [12:40]
B
Yeah, and I just had one other thing. I just thought you'd appreciate this. So we're all staying up there at the bar. I order a beer. It's a 25 ounce can of Stella. I'm like, I can't drink. This will be warm by the time I get halfway through this. Brooke was like, I'll have some of your beer if they can give you a cup. I said, can you. Can you give us a cup? No, can't give. Can't give you a cup. We don't do courtesy cups anymore. You have to pay for a cup. I'm like, I can't have a cup
- [13:00]
C
because they know people are going to split that 25 ounce beer exactly like.
- [13:03]
B
Or they were like we used to. But we have to inventory all the cups. I'm like, whatever.
- [13:06]
C
Inventory of the cups.
- [13:08]
B
So we're walking back into the theater. We're like, whatever, fine. And then Brooke, which I appreciate something I would do, she hits one more person up on the way out, like one more cashier. And she goes, do you have a cup I can have? And he does the same thing. I wish I could, but I have to inventory the cups. And I'm standing.
- [13:21]
C
What does that mean?
- [13:22]
B
It's just. They have to bring it in.
- [13:24]
A
Bring it in.
- [13:25]
C
Charge me for a cup.
- [13:26]
B
Well, so I go. I was like, you can't just give me a cup. I was like, I got this big. Can I have aluminum sensitivity and not the allergy, bro.
- [13:36]
C
Literally.
- [13:37]
B
I thought she was.
- [13:38]
C
She goes.
- [13:38]
B
And she ran away. She was laughing so hard. She was like, not the aluminum sensitivity. The way it just flew out of your mouth.
- [13:44]
C
You know, I love when you lie. I don't really commit to it.
- [13:47]
B
Yes, full commitment. I have an aluminum sensitivity and it still didn't work. And he was like, I can't. He didn't even flinch, though. He probably was like 100.
- [13:57]
C
I feel. He's like, you're the fifth person last hour that has an Aluminum sensitivity. You. It's crazy how you never see it in the wild except for at this concert.
- [14:07]
B
Yeah, but like, all these people are old. We all have something wrong with us. He was probably like, I've heard that a bunch of times tonight. So then he was like, I would have to charge you for a cup. I said, what do you have to charge me? He goes, I'd have to charge you the price of a soda. And it's expensive. I was like, I don't fucking care. It's Brooke's birthday, 7.99. I was like, for a fucking cup, worth it. Like, we split the beer again. It was her birthday. I was like, fine.
- [14:26]
C
Listen, a 25 ounce beer is like a 40. And if you hold that in your hand, it gets warm. Insane. Give me a cup so that I can temper temperature, control this and share this. This is crazy. I have to charge you for a soda. Okay.
- [14:38]
B
I was like, fine. He was probably. She's rich. $8 for a cup.
- [14:42]
C
How much? And then I was like, plastic or is a collector's cup?
- [14:45]
B
No, it's like a plastic hard cup that should be a commemorative cup. I was like, okay, well, it's a commemorative cup. It's gonna sit. No, just some stupid cup. Probably says Cisco or whatever. Not Cisco the performer, Cisco the food delivery, like some dumb brand name on it. Nothing to take home.
- [15:00]
C
Wow. Anyway, no cups. Also, that beer, you gotta be rich to afford that beer. Obviously you can afford a soda with the beer. Right?
- [15:06]
B
So anyway, I just think that stuff is like so fucking stupid. But whatever. He was like, when you stick him out, courtesy cups. I was like, okay, can you just dig one up? So that was really my weekend and you've been gone forever.
- [15:17]
C
I don't even know where I am. Yeah, I am drained on a level that is crazy. I'm so tired. And I was like, am I right? Like, I got back to New York on Friday. After D.C. and Philly. I never got out of bed. I sent you a few text messages. I got in bed at noon and I got back up the next day at 10am I opened the door to get food twice.
- [15:34]
B
I mean, that's really how it is.
- [15:36]
C
Yeah, I'm tired.
- [15:37]
B
It's a lot. Yeah, it's. So this is not a hot take. I really have decided that sleep is my number one priority. And it has to be. And it has to be above all else. Been saying this for years, but just the way that it affects you. I was reading last night how it affects your weight and actually under seven Hours of sleep can affect the hungry hormones and the satiation hormones. And like you hungry belly fat, it's cortisol. It's all this stuff. And last week, for one night, I just. I don't know, I went to bed too late. Woke up at 5, couldn't get back to sleep. Then I had the next day to get on a plane, go do that Chicks in the Office show in Seattle, which was really fun. I came back home, I was like, I look like a different person. I. My brain is not functioning. And then I got 11 hours of sleep, didn't wake up at all. Like, slept straight, straight through the night. I woke up, I looked like a different person. I felt thinner. I just was like, this is it.
- [16:29]
C
11 hours is just crazy. So I. I can't do more than nine. That fucks me up too. 10 hours. I got 10 hours. My whole face was puffy. I was all out of it. I was the ugliest face day I've
- [16:38]
B
had in a long time. Because you lack of sleep.
- [16:40]
C
No, I got too much sleep. Too much sleep.
- [16:42]
B
No, there's not. That's what I'm saying. This can't be a thing.
- [16:45]
C
I can't go under eight and I can't go over nine.
- [16:47]
B
You won't just, oh.
- [16:48]
C
Under eight.
- [16:49]
B
I had a top.
- [16:50]
C
I didn't realize until how ugly I looked on Saturday. I was like, this is the ugliest face I've had. And I've been feeling my face lately. And I was like, not now.
- [16:56]
B
I really, truly felt like I had a different face. Like the way I looked at that chick show. I was like, who is he? I couldn't even really get my hair right. Like, it just. This is not a hot take at all. But I used to really not need that much sleep. And I was like, obviously hydration is important exercise, but now sleep is in that top slot. And I always have been in this recently. Seven to eight range. I think I'm doing eight to nine. Like, I want to strive for nine and eight is the minimum.
- [17:24]
C
I think it's the key to youth. I think it makes your skin better. I just think it makes me a better person. It's, you know me, like, I hit the wall sometimes at like 6pm and I'm like, I'll get up tomorrow morning at 5am cause I'm done for the day. Like, I can't do anything else. But no, the shows were great. Your family came to my show in Philly and it just meant the world to me. Your cousin Lindsay and Buck and your sister in law staff. And Matt stayed home with the kids. And I just. I don't know. It meant the world to me.
- [17:46]
B
Matt was in Nashville. There was someone else with the kids. The kids were in the crate.
- [17:50]
C
The kids? No, she took their kids to her sister in law. To her sister. To Kat's house. I knew that Matt got home at some point because Matt would have been there.
- [17:56]
B
Yes.
- [17:56]
C
I'm trying to remember why. Yes, Matt was there. Matt didn't skip your show to babysit.
- [18:00]
B
Sorry. To parent.
- [18:01]
C
Well, he did if he did.
- [18:02]
B
No, no, he would have been there.
- [18:03]
C
It's parenting when it's a mom. It's babysitting when it's a dad.
- [18:06]
B
No, he's a parent. He was. He was traveling for work.
- [18:08]
C
It just. It meant the world to me to see them there and have them there, and just like your family is my family. And I just love them so much. And our Hunkamania strippers came, and that meant a lot to me, too.
- [18:17]
B
Well, everybody needs to know. Did they get naked?
- [18:20]
C
No, I left them alone. I just was like, this is their special night out. I can't, like, objectify. If I objectified anybody, it would have been Buck, right?
- [18:28]
B
I mean, I was getting so many messages. It was really sweet. Like, from the strippers from.
- [18:34]
C
Oh, and your best friend Corey. Sorry.
- [18:36]
B
Yeah. Cory and Lee. Like, Corey and Lee from the strippers from our girl who works for the Eagles, Kelsey, like, from Lindsey, and Buck from Steph. Like, it was just. Everybody was messaging me, and it was like, very funny. They're like, oh, my God.
- [18:53]
C
Like, I'm here.
- [18:53]
B
Like, I know y' all are there. Like, it was just cute. But I feel like people are like, can you believe it? We're here.
- [19:00]
C
Like, yeah, it's the most. You should have been at a show that you couldn't be at.
- [19:04]
A
Yeah.
- [19:04]
C
Because, like, I had to, like, apologize to everybody. I was like, I'm so sorry, guys. But Ashley wanted me to let you know, go birds. And like, everybody yelled and cheered, and I did Acknowledge. And DC was pretty funny, too, because my opener, he got up there and he's like, you guys love Rayna. I've been on the tour for a while. Ashley usually opens, and people are like, what? He was like, oh, no, she's not here.
- [19:21]
B
She shouldn't have said my name.
- [19:24]
C
He really lost them after that. It was hysterical.
- [19:27]
B
Yeah. Don't open with, Ashley's not here.
- [19:30]
C
Ashley's not here. He's like, ashley's been on a lot of this tour. She's not at this one.
- [19:34]
B
Well, and we have a thing that we call back to. It's, like, really a something that I do when I host and then Matt calls back to it, and it's, like, one of my favorite parts of his set when he talks about me, but it always hits the audience, always goes crazy. And then he probably was upset he
- [19:50]
C
didn't get to do that. Yeah. But it just. Both shows were. All four shows were really fun and wonderful. And I went into D.C. and I saw you in the green room right away. I saw your little picture, and it just was really fun. So thanks for coming out, guys.
- [20:00]
B
Okay. I love that.
- [20:01]
C
See you in Texas this week.
- [20:02]
B
When is it this week? Like, when do you leave?
- [20:05]
C
Dallas is Wednesday. Austin is Thursday, and then Houston is not sold out yet. That's Sunday night. So if you guys want to come into a show in Texas, come to Houston. Randygreenberg.com and that's it.
- [20:14]
B
Okay. So fun.
- [20:15]
C
Okay. So I do want to talk to you more about your honeymoon.
- [20:18]
B
Oh, I have your gift.
- [20:19]
C
You bought me a gift on your honeymoon?
- [20:21]
B
Yeah.
- [20:22]
A
What is it?
- [20:22]
B
No, it's a good gift. It's a good gift. Wait.
- [20:26]
C
I love Ashley. I love these. These are chopsticks from Singapore, and they're really beautiful.
- [20:31]
B
They come with a little pad.
- [20:32]
C
Maybe you guys can. We're gonna zoom in so you can see them, because people were upset that we didn't zoom in on the necklace. I bough.
- [20:36]
B
Okay. So we cleaned this store out of chopsticks. Raina. And we laid them all out last night to decide who gets them. We're, like, rationing them. She had a basket at this store on Arab Street. We took every chopstick, and we're like, do you have more in the back? I mean, it's the perfect gift.
- [20:52]
C
I love this little pouch.
- [20:54]
B
They're porcelain. They're so dope.
- [20:56]
C
I have this little drawer of chopsticks because people have bought me chopsticks for, like, special Anushka. And Sean got me, like, chopsticks when I moved into the house, and. And it's just, like, a really special gift. And it's like, I eat sushi at home a lot. It's, like, really nice to have this, like, special. Thank you so much. These are so pretty. I'm trying to put them in their bag.
- [21:12]
B
You're welcome. So to anyone listening, you may or may not get them. I mean, like, my family and we just were like, who gets these chopsticks? Like, they're really special. They say the Singapore experience on them or something. On the front, we found like the perfect gift to get for people. Rob got me chopsticks from Japan on his honeymoon. Yeah.
- [21:29]
C
For both of us.
- [21:29]
B
Right?
- [21:30]
C
They're inscribed.
- [21:30]
B
Yeah. They say girls got to eat on them. Yeah. His honeymoon in Japan, he got them for us. I've just always remembered how special a gift that was. So that's your gift. And on that note, I mean, we did recap mostly last week on the podcast and obviously, you know what happened on the honeymoon. We were voice owning you and everything and filling you in, but we didn't really dive too deeply into the food last week. And so I waited for you. I mean, it was incredible. And you really hyped it so much on just so many different cuisines. I mean, when you get there and you learn about the history of Singapore, it makes sense why it's so multicultural and you have these fine dining experiences and these nice restaurants and middle of the road restaurants too. But then the main thing are these hawker centers, which are food courts essentially. And they just have all these stalls. Some of them have Michelin stars. It's crazy. It's crazy to have a Michelin star at a food stall. There's one that's chicken and rice place called, called Tiantian that like Anthony Bourdain went to these hawker centers.
- [22:26]
C
Some of these people have been making one dish for 30 years, 40 years, they have perfected it. That chicken and rice place is so famous and like people have just made one thing. It's nice to be like recognized by the Michelin guide. Is like crazy.
- [22:37]
B
Yeah.
- [22:38]
C
So I'm glad you loved it.
- [22:39]
B
Okay, well, let's talk about our partners and we will get into it with our guests. Today I am telling you guys about hungryroot. I love this so, so much. You've heard us talk about it, so you know how much we love it. It just simplifies your life. If you're busy, whatever you have going on, if you work a lot, if you're a parent, if you're just not wanting to spend a bunch of time grocery shopping and meal planning and cooking, this is going to be a game changer and you can reach your health goals, reduce your stress, do all your weekly meal planning with hungryroot. So hungryroot, the food first of all is the highest quality. They hold all their foods the highest standards. They have organic produce. The meat and seafood is so good. No hormones or antibiotics. And all these trusted, healthy brands. And the variety is great too. There are over 50,000 chef crafted recipes to choose from each week. With many ready in just 15 minutes or less. So you are just gonna get your food delivered and all the ingredients you need to make these meals and recipes so you can really do it all again. You can have these meal kits, but you can also have all of your snacks and your produce and your breads and your meats and everything. They make it incredibly easy to get going and actually stick with any health goals that you have. I love it. I love to make the tacos. I've made some really good chicken tacos. There was a really good salad I had recently with that green goddess dressing that was so delicious. And pastas, the pasta's really good. I'm pretty picky about pasta, but the quality is great too. And it really just cuts out a lot of the stuff I don't wanna do, which is like going to the grocery store and doing all that stuff too. So you guys are gonna love Hungryroot as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box. Plus get a free item in every box for Life. Go to hungryroot.com GGE and use code GGE that's hungryroot.com GGE code GGE to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life.
- [24:24]
C
And my favorite bras and underwear skims. I mean it's the only bras I wear. Listen, we've gotten sent some bras recently from other companies. I'm like this really is all I want. The quality is unbelievable. There is so much to choose from. So my every single day bra is the skims fits everybody T shirt bra. I have it in every single color. I can't believe how many shades they offer. So I have onyx black, I have white, I have nude, I have like a cocoa brown shade. I sleep in it cause I love an underwire bra but it fits perfectly under every single item of clothing. It's not like bulky or flimsy. I like that the straps are really thin and if you're looking for a postpartum bra. Also my sister in law when she had the baby was asking me about what bras I suggest and I was like you gotta get skims. Like I love the way that they feel. And again, not too bulky, not too flimsy, lots to choose from. The price point is also great and they have tons of matching underwear as well. I wear the briefs around and I like like the lightweight cotton ruched back hipsters they have as well. Tons of colors, tons of sizes. The quality is great. It's A great gift for anybody in your life. Wear their pajamas every day.
- [25:23]
B
But maybe there's, like, a new mommy
- [25:24]
C
in your life and you want to buy her some bras.
- [25:26]
B
I'm a mommy. I'm right back.
- [25:30]
C
No, I miss it.
- [25:31]
B
Never let it die.
- [25:32]
C
Maybe there's a new mom in your life, or you just need a gift for somebody else. Or yourself. Maybe you got a boob job like me. You can shop our favorite bras and underwear@skims.com and after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.
- [25:46]
B
Okay, let's get into it.
- [25:47]
C
All right, guys. We are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is dubbed America's number one sex professor and one of the most popular lecturers at the University of Washington. She translates cutting edge research and data into a modern guide to pleasure, intimacy, and connection. Her course, the diversity of human Sexuality, attracts more than 4,000 students each year, making it one of the largest public human sexuality classes in the country. Her new book, you could be having better Sex, is out now. Please welcome to the show Dr. Nicole McNichols.
- [26:15]
A
Hi. I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
- [26:19]
C
We're so excited to have you.
- [26:20]
B
I just think about how much I would have loved that class in college. I mean, who knows? I was just having a lot of sex.
- [26:28]
A
So true.
- [26:29]
C
All the sex and none of it was good.
- [26:31]
B
Having a lot of sex. I didn't remember.
- [26:32]
A
I would have loved to have helped you have better sex. Try. Trust me, that would have been.
- [26:36]
B
Yeah, but you. I mean, we're so excited to talk to you today because obviously, your expertise, but you really have your finger on the pulse of these kids.
- [26:43]
A
Yes, I do. For better, for worse.
- [26:47]
B
Is your class, like, wait listed and it's like, a thing.
- [26:50]
A
It is. Yeah. Which is always so surprising. I mean, there's. I mean, it is sex. It is sex. Like, I'd have to be doing a pretty bad job for it to not be popular. Right, but give yourself more credit than that, but yeah. It's 1200 students a quarter. So close to 4000.
- [27:07]
B
What kind of room do you do? This?
- [27:08]
A
Yeah. So there's a lecture hall.
- [27:10]
B
Arena stadium.
- [27:11]
C
Yeah, exactly.
- [27:13]
A
I wish. It's. Yeah. So it has about 700 live in person, and then there's another 500 that stream online.
- [27:20]
B
Oh, my God.
- [27:21]
A
So, yeah. And we just kind of started opening up the enrollment during COVID when we all went online, and then as the university developed the technology to be able to stream and have sort of zoom to work with it, it kind of worked out, but, yeah. So it's. It's such a delight. I love my students so much.
- [27:37]
B
You're like the Taylor Swift college professors.
- [27:40]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [27:40]
B
Stop selling out.
- [27:44]
C
There's a waitlist. People are, like, putting the tickets to your Ticketmaster. Oh, my gosh. So I have to tell you something that made me laugh in the book is. So you've been teaching this course for 14 years?
- [27:54]
A
Yes.
- [27:54]
C
Okay. And you said, I hate to break it to you, I'm not like a dominatrix with an only fans. I don't come in with, like, whips and chains. I mean, you're just like a nice, smart lady who's married 20 years.
- [28:04]
B
I.
- [28:06]
A
Exactly. Yeah. I've been married, very happily married, in a monogamous relationship for 22 years, and I have three children and as I say, two needy pets. the same time, though, I have learned so much about different forms of sexual expression, different types of sexual interests, different types of. You know, I have a dominatrix who comes into my class and whoops me every quarter. I do. I really do. I have a whole panel of polyamorous guests that come in. And, you know, there are reasons that I have these people. And I just want my students to understand that there's so many different ways we can experience our sexuality. And even if it's not for us, Right? Like take something like kink. Maybe we don't all want to be going to a dungeon. We can learn about things like consent and being able to talk about what you want in the beginning and even thinking about how something like erotic power exchange ties into every sexual experience. So it's just something where we have a lot of fun and there's so much shame and stigma around this topic that it's just really nice to be able to teach them in a way that's sex positive and accepting, but also telling them that you don't have to be wild or become a whole different person to be able to enjoy great sex.
- [29:21]
C
Right. It's not this giant jump from one thing to the next.
- [29:24]
B
No.
- [29:24]
A
It doesn't need to be overwhelming.
- [29:25]
C
I have a question for you. When we were talking about this, you know, Ashley and I were in college a long time ago, and I took.
- [29:30]
B
Speak for yourself.
- [29:30]
C
I took one class, just got out, actually. She's still in college. Yeah, but you've been doing this for 15 years. And I think about the sex that I had 15 years ago. And I don't know that I even knew that, like, really sex was for my pleasure. In my 20s, I don't remember being like, obviously the purpose of this is for me to have an orgasm as well. You know, I didn't know, like, which position to get in to have an orgasm. And I didn't even know that was, like, necessarily a part of that. I mean, I knew could give myself an orgasm. But I'm curious, like, how you see the students evolving in 15 years. Like, are the questions really different from your students?
- [30:00]
A
The questions are definitely very different. But what's interesting is, I mean, that's such a good point, Raina, because I see sort of this paradise.
- [30:08]
C
Right?
- [30:08]
A
On the one hand, there's more sex positivity, and so there's more of a sort of understanding among my female students that they deserve pleasure. Right. However, there is still sort of this sexual double standard that absolutely exists where most of them report that they, you know, are mostly having hookups where their partner, at least in the context of straight relationships, is having an orgasm. And they're not. But there is a little bit more sort of acceptance and less judgment around that. But at the same time, we have a generation for the first time, where they're mostly learning about sex from porn, right? And it's not that porn for, you know, among adults is always necessarily a terrible thing. Like, there's absolutely a healthy way to watch porn. But for many of them, where they're actually learning about pleasure and bodies and sex from this really unrealistic idea about what sex looks like, it's presenting this very performative idea of sex. They're coming into the classroom and they're sort of.
- [31:07]
C
Of.
- [31:07]
A
They're scared, right? They're. They're sort of buying into this idea that sex has to be wild and performative and crazy and rough to be hot. And so you sort of have this, like, weird thing going on where fewer of them are having sex than our generation did in college. Right. Except for you, because you just graduated, obviously.
- [31:28]
B
I'm Gen Z, obviously.
- [31:31]
A
But, you know, many of them, they're not having as much sex, but the ones who are, when the sex that they are having is really kinky and rough and performative, and so it's not that pleasurable. Right. And so I really feel like a lot of what we talk about is, how do you make sex feel more pleasurable and also just more authentic and connected and real?
- [31:49]
C
I never thought about that. I guess I didn't know sex was for my pleasure. But no, One was making me hang from the rafters, spit in my mouth, choke me. I didn't just think about all those things.
- [31:58]
B
Learning about sex from porn and is scary. And I don't know that you ever unlearn it like that. I mean, our entree to sex was Cosmo magazine and Sex in the City and Dawson's Creek all spicy. The teacher student stuff. But, like, really sex in this city. And again, like, the magazines that we had, we didn't have podcasts and we. I never watched a porn. I don't. I think we jokingly watched Debbie Does Dallas when I was, like, in my 20s. Like, I wasn't watching porn. And I'm probably on the farther end of the spectrum of lesser porn experience, but same with me to learn about it that way.
- [32:30]
A
Exactly. I mean, I grew up, you know, before the Internet, obviously, in school we had some sex out. It was terrible. But I mean, at least, like, there were magazines like Cosmo and, you know, things out there where I could at least read in a magazine or, you know, find books in the library, even. But, I mean, at the same time, I do remember stumbling upon with some friends, you know, her dad's porn stache and watching a video of porn when I was in, like, fourth grade.
- [32:59]
B
Are you serious?
- [33:00]
A
It was really scary.
- [33:02]
B
Yeah.
- [33:02]
A
Yeah, it was really, really scary. And when I think about the fact that kids now can just go online and just access that any time of day so easily, no problems, I mean, I think that that's making them. I mean, I know it would make me scared of sex, and I think for a lot of them, it's just making it feel really intimidating.
- [33:18]
B
Okay.
- [33:19]
C
Yeah, I really validate that.
- [33:20]
B
That's just.
- [33:21]
C
It's a whole other window to walk into that I never had to worry about back then, honestly.
- [33:25]
B
Totally. And that parents have to worry about.
- [33:27]
A
Exactly.
- [33:28]
B
How old are your children?
- [33:29]
A
My kids are 11, 16, and 18.
- [33:32]
B
Oh, yes. Okay. So they've seen porn.
- [33:35]
A
I'm guessing yes.
- [33:37]
C
I can take your class.
- [33:38]
B
I didn't expect you to say teenagers.
- [33:40]
A
I'm guessing yes. I mean, I've tried to get it out of them. They won't share specifics, but we've had the conversation about how porn isn't real.
- [33:49]
B
It's not real.
- [33:50]
A
Here's good, healthy sex education. But here's the thing, you guys, is, like, even if many of my students who will say no, we know it's not real. It's not real. At a cognitive level, you're seeing those images.
- [34:01]
B
You've still digested them.
- [34:03]
A
You're still digesting it. It's still imprinting upon you at a young, sort of innocent age what these ideas look like. And so no matter what, our brains are just wired when we're doing an activity to think about. Well, what am I supposed to be doing right now? What is the standard? And if that's a real. If porn is a really vivid image that's just been imprinted upon your brain, no wonder you're gonna have a lot of anxiety and insecurity and fear around it. Right?
- [34:28]
C
Well, even if you know it's not real, if you've seen it three, four, five times and that's your only touch point to it, how could you not think it's supposed to be?
- [34:35]
B
Exactly.
- [34:35]
C
Exactly.
- [34:35]
B
That's what I'm saying. You can't unsee it. It's different than, like, playing Call of Duty and knowing that's not real or watching, you know, an action movie with a bunch of violence and knowing that's not real. You can't go out and do that. There's something different about sex. Like, I don't think you can not process it to think about it when you're then having sex.
- [34:51]
A
Exactly. It's also really different than reading about it. Like erotica. I do remember finding my mom's spicy erotica books. And that's how this all started out as traumatic.
- [35:02]
C
You know, I mean, first of all,
- [35:03]
A
I was a little bit older, and I was like, oh, okay, this is kind of spicy. And, you know, you're visualizing it, and you're visualizing it, you, in a sense, you almost have more consent because it's happening in your own brain.
- [35:14]
C
I used to like that when I was younger. I used to, like, read reading porn, and straight porn scared me. I used to just pretty much focus on lesbian porn, which we've talked about on the show, but it felt less violent.
- [35:23]
A
Yeah. Straight women are a huge, huge consumer of lesbian porn. And.
- [35:28]
C
And now gay porn.
- [35:29]
A
And now gay porn. Hello. Heated rivalry.
- [35:31]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [35:32]
A
That's what I'm saying. I mean, circle of trust. I will even admit myself, I've had so much more sex since Heated rivalry.
- [35:38]
C
Oh, my God, I love that.
- [35:40]
B
Yeah. Did your husband watch it?
- [35:42]
A
Oh, hell no. But I do.
- [35:43]
C
Oh, really? You just hornier. It revs you up.
- [35:47]
A
It's nice. It revs you up.
- [35:48]
C
I just. I always felt like straight porn was not a representation of what I wanted in the bedroom. First of all, it's so long. It's so much pounding.
- [35:57]
A
It's just like jackhammering. Exactly.
- [36:00]
C
It looks so violent to me. It just wasn't representative of what I wanted. Even before I realized I was attracted to women, I was attracted to. To lesbian porn. Right. Which is pleasureful.
- [36:10]
A
Yeah. Well, And I mean, 18% of women, right, can have an orgasm from penetrative sex, but the rest need some kind of clitoral stimulation. So when you're looking at mainstream porn, it's rough. It's creating this idea that women want to be pushed up against the wall and want to be, you know, just taken, you know, have no consent in the matter. But it's also just like glamorizing. A type of sex that's not that pleasurable for.
- [36:38]
B
For women.
- [36:38]
A
Right.
- [36:39]
B
I mean, the immediate penetration, I'll never get over it even. There was a scene in Sinners, which I love sinners. Thank God they won all the awards. It just. He was in. They start kissing. He was in. I mean, you physically can't come in. We're too dry. Like, that is still to this day. There's the scene we always talk about from Tell Me Lies. Then Raina was like, I thought it was hot. I was like, I could feel it in my own.
- [36:58]
C
Like, I felt the pain of like
- [37:01]
B
an unlubricated vagina right in there.
- [37:04]
A
Ouch. Just ouch. Watching that. Right.
- [37:06]
B
And maybe you've been in the cab getting all wet on the way home and you're already lubricant. I'm saying there are times when you're already turned off. Yes.
- [37:13]
A
But you're kind of already been making out at that point.
- [37:15]
B
Exactly.
- [37:15]
C
When it is just immediate that we're making out. Cancer down penis.
- [37:19]
A
Exactly. Exactly. And that's why lesbian porn can be so nice to watch. I mean, yes, if you're a lesbian, but also, no matter who you are, because it's more gentle. It tends to be, you know, showing more types of behaviors that are pleasurable. Actually pleasurable for a woman. I mean, it's. Yeah.
- [37:36]
C
Well, we. Okay, first of all, your book is phenomenal and I loved it. And there's so much great information in there about the science of pleasure. And so we thought we'd focus on today is your self pleasure and discovering what you want. We'll talk about casual hookups and then we will talk a lot about long term relationships. But maybe we start with just like discovering what is pleasurable to you, how to ask for those things and how that could evolve. And I wonder, how do you want to start with your hierarchy of sexual needs?
- [38:01]
A
It's such a good place to start. Reina because I think so many people want to be having better sex, but they don't really know where to start, right? Like how do you kind of look at all of this? Because the options seem limitless and they are. But where, how do you even figure out where to begin? And so I kind of come at it from this perspective that before you even become intimate with a partner, you need to kind of do your homework of first of all, understanding your own body, understanding your own types of touch and erotic sort of sensations that feel good to you. And this is where, you know, I'm very nerdy because I like looking at research studies, not just, you know, interview. I mean, look, interviewing people who I know is also fun and I have a lot of insight from girlfriends. But really when we look at studies, for example, you know, the Kinsey Institute, University of Indiana, looking at sort of this study of thousands of women and actually asking them, how do you touch yourself? Like what are the exact types of touch and technique that lead you to have an organ orgasm, right? And so sort of understanding your body, masturbating, getting a sex toy, figuring out what feels good to you, accessing your fantasies, but also coming at it from this perspective that you have to kind of turn yourself on before you're going to be able to get turned on with a partner. And what I mean by that is, at the base of my level is understanding your physical needs, but also your cognitive needs and understanding how things like stress, exhaustion, all of these things that are going to get in the way of your pleasure cycle. Right? Because pleasure is not something we just experience in the moment, it's something that we have to understand. There's sort of a wanting, liking and learning stage to. And so if we can unpack, you know, all of these different mental things that can block us from being able to show up in an experience and become present. That that's going to just put us in a place where we're better able to, you know, show up and actually enjoy sex with a partner. And so then we go into sort of this middle layer of the pyramid, which is about communicating with a partner, about getting into my consent manifesto, about being able to work with a long term partner to maintain passion in a long term relationship. And then we get to the tippy top where maybe you want to experiment with something a little bit naughty or something that's a little bit pushing a comfort zone or at least, at the very least, unlocking your fantasies and knowing what those can sort of suggest about novelty that you can try. So I Just try to provide this framework with that hierarchy where it's a little bit like a blueprint for, here's where to start. Start with yourself. Then connecting with a partner and figuring out where is my creativity and curiosity taking me so that I'm having better sex now, but that I can continue to evolve and have better sex throughout my lifetime as my own sexual needs and desires evolve.
- [40:54]
C
I love that. And that's great. And I love that you start with you, and that's the basis of understanding what you like. And I'm always surprised by the people that tell me that they don't really masturbate, but they have a ton of sex. And I have a couple girlfriends in particular that I think of as very sexual with their partners. But they both have told me, like, I don't really masturbate ever. And I find that so interesting that people don't really start with their own bodies and know what they like. And listen, I'm sure my friends know what they like. I'm sure it's doing great. But I just, I want to validate. It's pretty normal to like, not necessarily touch yourself all the time, masturbate, know what you like. And I started that stuff as a kid.
- [41:27]
A
But absolutely no. Oh my gosh, completely. And I mean, that's the thing, is that with all of this there's no should. Right. I mean, if masturbating feels good and it brings a sense of pleasure, enjoy it. Right. I mean, if for the most part, you know, when we look at couples where they're masturbating, they're certainly not having lots of less sex than people who are not masturbating. You know, we get into a little bit of a gray zone when we're looking at really compulsive porn use and masturbation in that context. But for the most part, when people are masturbating and just doing it as a form of self care. Right. That can feel really good and it can teach you about what you want. But if you're having great sex with a partner and you're enjoying it and you're not spending a lot of time masturbating. Absolutely. That is also. Also a very normal, healthy pattern to be falling into. It's just that there's no shame if you decide that you do want to try it.
- [42:20]
C
Right? Right.
- [42:21]
B
Yeah. I mean, how many orgasms do you need a week? Then you gotta figure, you know, exactly your partner's giving you a month, whatever it may be. I just think obviously the most important place is to start with yourself. Like, there is no world in which just once I find the partner, he'll know what to do.
- [42:36]
A
Right.
- [42:36]
B
You know, like the right guy will know my body somehow, but magically you know and know how to please me. Like, how would they ever.
- [42:44]
A
Yeah. And I think you just really hit the nail on the head because that's kind of like the biggest myth that gets in people's way is this idea that you don't have to talk about it, that it should just happen. That chemistry is instantly. It's not and it's, that's just not true.
- [42:59]
B
Right.
- [43:00]
A
I mean, first of all, a lot of what we're sort of categorizing as chemistry is anxiety and uncertainty that's happening early in a relationship. I mean, the reality is that even if you look for, particularly for women, a lot of times it's once you develop a better understanding of each other's bodies and you have that sense of safety and trust when you can really let go and communicate that great sex starts to happen a lot of times early on in a relationship. You have that desire and that excitement, but the orgasms may not be coming as quickly as they are once you get to know each other. Right. So it's really about that like, yes, sense of attraction, but also communication and willingness to understand that there is so much diversity in the types of touch and positions and atmospheres that people like in the sex that they're having.
- [43:54]
C
So we will talk about libido fluctuating in long term relationships, but just overall, how normal is it for people's libidos and their desires and what they want, what they're looking for to like really flux, fluctuate and change over time.
- [44:04]
A
Oh, it's so incredibly normal.
- [44:06]
C
Right.
- [44:06]
A
I mean, there's just no way that everyone is going to be able to have this super high level of libido all the time. I mean, maybe some people, but for the vast majority of people it's going to ebb and flow. And even if it's true that one partner is always going to have a high level of libido, usually there's going to be at least one person in the relationship where, where there's highs and lows and it's about, you know, understanding, look, life gets in the way. And especially for people who are entering times in their life when there's a lot of career stress, right. It's particularly for women in middle age where you have sort of all the pressures of starting a family and a job and remembering everybody's dentist Appointment and the emotional labor, and the reality that. That even as we are advancing in our careers and education, women are still doing a greater proportion of all the household labor. So there can just be so much exhaustion put on people's plates, particularly women. And that is absolutely going to lead to maybe some resentments that absolutely need to be addressed. You know, I label those as, you know, hidden culprits that might be kind of getting in the way of your sex life, but also just looking at sort of this idea that. That you might be going through something, you might be sick, your kids might be going through something. And it's totally normal during those phases to, like, not be totally turned on all the time. And that's okay.
- [45:32]
B
And it doesn't mean it's over forever. Like, I think we get in this. Like, this is the new normal.
- [45:37]
C
Yes.
- [45:37]
B
Like, whatever it may be, having kids, if it's perimenopause, or like, this is it, my libido is gone. I'll never get it back. Which is obviously so untrue. You hear about women having great sex in their 50s, 60s, 70s, even the best sex of their life, even sometimes. And so I think it's important to remember you can always get it back.
- [45:53]
A
You can. And I'll even speak on a personal note, because, like we talked about and Raina pointed out in the beginning, people often assume that, you know, I must be having sex every day because I'm a sex professor. But no, I mean, my desire ebbs and flows. Right. I mean, there are weeks when I'll have it numerous times, and, you know, I'm feeling healthy and good and energetic and well rested. And then there are times when I'll just be exhausted or going through something, and I might not have sex at all for a week. Right. Or it might even go two weeks. So it's not, you know, the end of the world, because my husband and I always know it will come back. We'll get back on track. Right. As long as we keep talking about it. Right. As long as we keep communicating about it, there's really nothing to be worried about.
- [46:34]
C
Yeah, I love that. And I love just, like, acknowledging that all these things change what you desire and how much you desire it. Because I think that so much about sex is what is wrong with me. Why don't I want this thing? Why do I suddenly want this thing? You know, it's so much evolving of, like, why am I attracted to this? Why am I not attracted to this?
- [46:50]
A
Yes. And so many women going through that, and. And then the other thing that you know, and if anyone listening to this is in this period of perimenopause or menopause, the declining hormones that come with that. Right. I mean, thank God we're at a period where HRT is now recognized as being completely safe. The warning has come off of the label for that. You know, I think that that's something that all women should be exploring who are going through any kind of hormone changes related to menopause. But that can be, you know, something that really gets in the way and, you know, can cause dryness and brain fog and low libido. And for so long, women have been taught just to kind of suck it up. But again, it. It goes back to this theme of starting with yourself and figuring out what. What's getting in your way of feeling turned on and able to show up sexually in your own life or your own relationship and then feeling entitled. Right. It really requires a level of entitlement to ask for what it is that you need to be able to feel better, more energetic, more well rested, more supported in your life so that you can feel more sexual.
- [47:55]
B
You talk about the importance of sleep in this. And there's this one couple you focus on and we talked about. About sleep in the intro and how it's just my number one priority these days. I didn't used to need as much, and now it's just like the number one thing that affects every. Everything. So y. And when I don't feel like having sex is when I'm so tired and, you know, the busier I am, the more stress and the less I want to have sex. And so I just think it seems so obvious, but it's such a big part of it. And I understand going through those periods of time when you can't get enough sleep, especially when you have a nude, like young children.
- [48:27]
A
It's not sexy advice, but getting sleep, hot sex advice. Get a good night's sleep.
- [48:34]
B
Yes. And exercise and hydration and all this stuff.
- [48:37]
A
Hydration is not just your.
- [48:40]
C
Exactly.
- [48:41]
A
Right. Exactly. Drink water. Exactly. Fuel yourself, nurture yourself, do things that bring you pleasure in other aspects of your life. Right?
- [48:50]
C
Absolutely.
- [48:51]
A
Like, we tend to like, like denigrate pleasure. I think it's not necessary that it's a treat. You have to earn it. You know, have your inbox at zero before you get to enjoy things. But pleasure actually fuels us in really important ways. It fills our bucket in ways that leads to ego resilience, more creative thinking, and has a whole broadening effect, pleasure and positive emotions. So Much research just supporting the importance of those in all aspects of our lives. Life. Sexual pleasure, yes. But whether it's connecting with a friend over drinks or a cup of coffee, or getting a massage or meditating or taking a yoga class or you know, whatever it is that just feels good to you in that moment, that's gonna help you come back into your body and feel more uplifted. That's gonna be really helpful not only to your wellbeing but also to your libido.
- [49:43]
B
So we wanna talk about casual sex today and then we'll end on like long term couples. And we have a lot of different topics to discuss there. But we're just gonna take a quick break and then we will get right back into it. Okay. So you know how we feel about gut health. It affects your whole system. Your gut houses about 80% of your immune system. And it can be tough to feel your best when your gut feels out of balance. We talk about this all the time, the gut to brain connection. How when your gut feels out of balance, you can even feel depressed or just totally off. And how digestive health is often overlooked even for the most health conscious. So chlorophyll is responsible for how plants harness the power of. Now you can enjoy a gentle but powerful daily detox with chlorophyll stick packs from nature Sunshine. We love this. I am so big on chlorophyll. They're convenient on the go. Way to support your gut health. It's just going to be a gentle daily detox to help your body feel light and balanced. We love that. Super easy to mix and it comes in refreshing flavors like lime, apple or melon. I really love the lime. Any flavor. If it's a lemon and lime, that's usually what I gravitate towards. But I really do like them all. You can take this when you feel bloated, sluggish or out of balance. Super easy to include in your day. So you are just going to put it in your water. That's what I do. You're just going to tear, pour, stir and sip. You can take it easy with you on the go. I like it with ice cold water. It's just going to be a quick, clean, hydrating boost. The flavors are great. Again, they're crisp, they're not overly sweet. I hate stuff that feels like too overly sweet or artificial. And it makes your plain water taste like something you actually are going to look forward to. So freshens you from the inside out, naturally neutralizes odors and supports your body, aids detox and digestion. Helps your body eliminate toxins while supporting gut balance like we mentioned. And provides antioxidant support as well. Helps fight free radicals and promotes cellular health. All these things really everything you need to feel your best. There are no sugars, artificial sweeteners, colors or fillers. And backed by decades of herbal expertise in chlorophyll's long wellness history. Over 16, 0005 star reviews. Nature Sunshine is a long running company. They've been around for decades and they've really been always creating really high quality products so you can get a daily detox with chlorophyll stick packs. Nature Sunshine is offering 20% off your first order plus free shipping. Go to naturesunshine.com and use the code GIGI at checkout. That's code gge@naturesunshine.com okay.
- [51:52]
C
And another thing that is good for your body, treats you well, is spark. So it is so important to me to feel energized and to feel focused. We travel so much, we're always on planes and really want to like come do the podcast feel really, really sharp and like I'm mentally there for everything. So. So when it comes to spark, it gives you energy and mental sharpness without the trade offs. Spark Energy and Focus is your go to pre workout ritual. When you do reliable energy to power through life, a ride, a run, a class, you would just mix it, sip it and you get dialed in and ready to go. The taste is great, it's refreshing, it's bold, it's vibrant and I really like it sort of in that mid afternoon crash time as well when I just need to like wake up, get up and go and like keep it moving throughout the day and stay more focused, productive. And so what stands out about it to me there is zero grams of sugar. There's 120 milligrams of caffeine for a little bit of alertness and concentration. There's amino acids. It includes choline to support performance, mental focus and clarity. It helps support energy metabolism on active days. So there's vitamin B in there as well, Vitamin C, A and E and Spark Energy and Focus is made by trusted brand that has delivered real energy for 32 years. I just love the bold flavors. I really do look forward to drinking it. And we have an offer for you guys. Spark Energy and focus is offering 30% off and free shipping. Go to drinkspark.com and use the code GGE at checkout. That's code ggenkspark.com okay, you talk about
- [53:20]
B
Sexual mindfulness, I believe, and just making space for eroticism in your brain, essentially. And so I just wanted to touch on that. And that will also play into later when we talk about responsive or spontaneous desire. But just.
- [53:35]
C
I like this.
- [53:36]
B
Sexual mindfulness. I hadn't really heard that term before.
- [53:38]
A
Exactly. Yes. No sexual mindfulness. So much data behind this by Dr. Laurie Brado. She has done so many studies just showing, you know, if we look at what happens at a neurological level during sex, in order to be able to have an orgasm, we need to be able to turn off, off all of those parts of our brain that are responsible for thinking, judging, comparing, and yet we have such a tendency to turn those parts of our brain on during sex, particularly women. Right. Whether it's, you know, oh, my gosh, did I take the garbage out today? Is the coffee maker still on? Is that the cat puking on the rug? Right. To body image issues, which are such a huge, huge issue for so many women, especially today. All of those things. Yeah. Can just be going through your head, turning on that prefrontal cortex that's happening. That is not supposed to be running at full capacity while you're having sex. Unless it's being used to think about sexual fantasy. That could be helpful.
- [54:40]
B
We'll allow it.
- [54:40]
A
Exactly. Then it's permitted. But no. Sexual mindfulness is like any other form of mindfulness really, where you. You're noticing those distracting thoughts and you're not trying to fight them, but you're just sort of seeing them pass into your conscious awareness, seeing them and like allowing them to pass through and really bringing your awareness back to the sensations in your body, back to your breath. Right. If your nervous system isn't synced during sex, you're not going to be able to experience pleasure. Right. And the trick to calming your nervous system and bringing it, regulating it, and syncing it with that of your partners is to be focused on the responses and feelings and touch in your own body and to be really focused in on the sexual cues emanating from your partner and allowing those to be your guide during sex as opposed to whatever that porn is that's running through your head. Are those comparisons that are so tempting to make that can really make you feel insecure and not present in your own body?
- [55:45]
C
Absolutely. When I think about the times I've felt the least sexual, it's when I don't feel, like, attractive and I'm in my head about my body and the way I'm gonna look on top of somebody and your partner. We've Heard this time and time again from people your partner doesn't notice. They don't care. They think you're beautiful, they think you're sexy. But really when I. I have felt the worst about myself is when I feel the least sexual and it's hard to get out of your head. And so I think even earlier what you said, like do things like get a massage or if that's obviously cost per. Spend time with friends. Spend time with people that make you feel good about yourself.
- [56:17]
A
Exactly.
- [56:17]
C
And really like that will allow you to feel better about your body and be more present.
- [56:21]
A
Also, there's so much new research coming out that non sexual affectionate touch can be really healing when it comes to body image issues. Right. And this means cuddling with your partner. Right. And when they're reaching out to you. Right. They're caressing you in a way that's. That feels good. Isn't.
- [56:40]
B
Smacks on the butt.
- [56:41]
A
No, not feel sexy.
- [56:42]
B
Right.
- [56:42]
A
Not the smacks on the butt.
- [56:44]
B
Oh, sorry. That was just saying.
- [56:45]
A
Unless you like it. No, if you like it. That's amazing. That's
- [56:53]
B
wait around the house and stuff.
- [56:55]
A
Smack that ass. Exactly. Ashley's like, I look better.
- [56:58]
C
Ashley, she's like, I like when he hits me. And no, like a little. A little.
- [57:02]
B
Don't we all love that?
- [57:03]
C
Walking up on the toes. I thought, I thought you meant like just, you know, like the, you know,
- [57:07]
B
Pat, if I walk by my man and he doesn't hit my butt, I'm
- [57:10]
A
like, am I mad at you? I love that. So I'm into the hug from behind. Right. The embrace from behind for me. Cuz I'm sort of a full body. Like smush me. I just want to be sw.
- [57:23]
B
I'm like, pick me up and carry me around.
- [57:25]
C
I want somebody on top of me. Exactly. At all times.
- [57:27]
A
At all times. Like massive skin to skin contact.
- [57:30]
C
I just, I want to be touched always. Exactly.
- [57:31]
B
I literally will be like, can you pick me up? Pick me up, five, ten and carry me around. Like why?
- [57:36]
A
Exactly. Exactly. And when you think about it, it makes sense because it's almost like at an unconscious level our partner is saying, I like your body, I want to touch your body. And you know, it's. Sometimes our brains don't want to hear the message of oh, you look beautiful today. And we're instantly gonna dismiss that. Right. But if at this unconscious level we're feeling our partner's body want our body, there's something really powerful about that. So yeah, I think if you're trying to help a Partner with low body image issues. That's probably the number one thing you can do, is just engage in that kind of affectionate touch.
- [58:14]
B
I love it. Yeah. And you hear that from people like, he doesn't touch me. Or, you know, the only time we do touch is when we're having sex. And it's sad, it's kind of bleak to think about that.
- [58:23]
A
And then people start to kind of bristle Right. When their partner touches them. Because if the only time you're touching each other is when you're having sex, it almost starts to feel transactional.
- [58:32]
C
Yeah. It's like you want something. That's why you're being.
- [58:35]
A
Exactly. Yeah.
- [58:36]
C
And I do understand probably there's people that get into these cycles of, like, you never touch me. I'd like you to touch me more. You know, And I understand feeling like a little hostile and upset if that's the only time that you're getting touched.
- [58:46]
A
Exactly. I mean, that's why if, you know, when I tell couples, you know, what's, you know, one thing you can do tonight, well, come home, give each other a 20 second hug.
- [58:55]
B
I love a hug.
- [58:56]
A
Gottman research proves from your husband you are sorry.
- [59:00]
B
I only hug, yes, one person.
- [59:01]
A
I like hugging, but the hug from the, from the partner. I love a good husband hug.
- [59:06]
B
Well, I think you should hug when you get home from work. If we're not hugging and kissing when we see each other after the day both work from home, then, you know, more power to you. Like you're stronger than we are. But, you know, when he comes home, I want to touch.
- [59:20]
A
Right, exactly. And we hear like, okay, you know, everybody has heard the advice plan sex play in sex. Yes. But if you're not touching each other and all of a sudden it's 8pm on Tuesday night and you're unloading the dishwasher and you have an appointment to get in bed and have sex with your part. Nobody is going to want to do that.
- [59:38]
B
We haven't led up to it. Foreplay is not just touch and intimacy. Like, it's what you're doing before in your brain. Like if in your. If you're just stressed all day and you're supposed to get right into it,
- [59:49]
A
you have to kind of have foreplay with yourself.
- [59:51]
B
If you go right from a meeting to in the bed with your partner, how the hell, like you need. There's a buffer. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Like, not necessarily foreplay, but some sort of buffer where you wind down.
- [60:05]
A
Yep.
- [60:06]
B
Turn yourself on Shore. But just get, get the day out of your head.
- [60:10]
A
Exactly. And you need to give yourself that transition space because it's so easy. Think about it. If we're not feeling attracted to our partner, sometimes the immediate place our brain goes to is, why am I not attracted to them anymore? And sometimes it's not about something happening at the relationship level. It's more that you're not giving yourself that transition period. You're not giving that space to drop back into your body at the end of a hard time. And so, yeah, coming home and having that 20 second hug or the seven second kiss is something that you're normalizing this kind of non sexual physical touch and you are starting that process of coming back into your body and being present in a calmer state around your partner.
- [60:59]
B
Yes. So let's talk about scheduling. And I like that you say use the language. Planning, which feels different than scheduling to me. And I think that's like a reframing too of scheduling is giving calendar invite and planning is giving. Just holding the space on Sundays for our sexy time, we draw a bath, whatever you guys got going on. But I kind of like the reframing because I think there is this, which this could be what some couples do, but this, this myth or this image of it's on the calendar, which it can be.
- [61:29]
A
Yep.
- [61:29]
B
But it doesn't have to be.
- [61:31]
A
It doesn't. Yeah. It can be done in a romantic way, right? Yeah. And that's the thing is, I mean, one of the biggest myths that I think really holds couples back is the myth that sex is always going to be just spontaneous, that it's going to just fall from the sky and be amazing. And if it doesn't, then something's wrong. Yeah, something's wrong. Exactly. And the reality is that great sex in relationships, it's intentional, it is planned, there is effort put into it. Right. And so it involves, yes, getting yourself back into your body through that transitional state that we talked about. But then it also means yes, saying, let's put intimacy on the calendar. And I like the word intimacy just because to me, it feels more comprehensive than just the physical act of sex. Right. Because sex is great when there's that emotional connection. So you have to say, like, how am I going to feel connected to you beforehand? So that that can help us to kind of get into this place where we are desiring having sex. And that might mean being on the couch at the same time and cuddling. It might mean having a conversation about what's going on in each other's. Days and worlds and how you're feeling and what's making you feel anxious or happy or turned on. You know, what are sort of the big things that are occupying your mental space those days? Because when we have conversations about those things, we feel seen and valued and heard in our relationship. And that is a turn on, right? Yes, that is a turn on.
- [63:08]
C
I just love that you frame it as scheduling intimacy. And I think our audience has been
- [63:12]
B
really open to this.
- [63:12]
C
We asked people how they felt about scheduling sex and our audience was really open to it. And I think that when you remove the, like, this is another line item on my calendar, like a meeting, it feels a little different. Let's schedule something. Intimacy together later. Let's watch a movie, let's go out to dinner. Like planning those things I think just takes the chore out of it.
- [63:31]
A
It does. And I mean, look, my husband and I love food, we love wine. Again, pleasure, advocacy. So that for us really helps. Right. Going out to dinner, just the two of us.
- [63:41]
B
Yeah. Date night.
- [63:42]
A
Date night. Right. Is fantastic. Some couples may not have time for that. Budget. May not allowed go for a walk. Right. I mean, there's something actually really healing about just going for a walk together where, you know, you're beside each other, your blood is pumping through your body, which, you know can help. And there's, you know, just sort of an attention and awareness that comes. That can be really healing. I mean, just doing things, even if it's just watching a movie together on the couch, just carved out time, that's for the two of you. Right. Where you can connect is really important and should be part of. Yes, scheduling intimacy, but also not having it be such a contract where of course, if you're not feeling it. Yeah. If you're not feeling it, it's okay to reschedule.
- [64:30]
B
Right, Right. Circle back for next week.
- [64:33]
C
Circle back to the top of your inbox.
- [64:34]
A
Take it to the new year.
- [64:35]
C
So when you think of couples that have, like, maintained some pretty good long term intimacy, is this a thing you see with them a lot? Are there other things you see a lot? It seems like you really acknowledge, like, it's not always gonna be like this all the time. We ebb and flow.
- [64:48]
A
Exactly. Yes. Couples that have healthy sex lives who report levels of high satisfaction, they are definitely planning it 100%. It's not just spontaneously happening. And there's been really interesting research come out lately that shows that when you interview people. Right. Most people assume that sex that spontaneously happens, that just falls out of the sky. Is gonna be hotter than when it's planned. But that when you do these longitudinal studies and couples do plan it, they report that the sex that they had when they planned it is just as hot, just as satisfying, leads to just as many orgasms as when it was spontaneous. And the reason for that has to do with responsive desire, Right? This idea that when you don't have to feel turned on in order to start having sex with your partner, sometimes, sometimes it's understanding that you might start touching and kissing and connecting and cuddling and then your body starts to turn on. Right. It's like anything else in life where sometimes that feeling of readiness only happens after you've started. Right. And so that's okay. So couples who report high levels of sexual satisfaction recognize that and embrace that and don't feel discrepancy. Discouraged by that. But then there's interesting research from David Frederick and others looking at, for example, that they communicate a lot, right. They talk about their turn ons. Right. I always recommend to couples, focus on the positive. Right. Talk about more the things that your partner is doing that feel good, that you want more of, things that you want to try. It's not that we don't want to point out the things that aren't working clearly. If something's crossing any kind of a boundary, you want to put an immediate end to it because. But like all of us in almost every domain of our lives, we respond better to positive reinforcement. So say what feels good. Say what your fantasies are. Ask questions. I give a whole series of questions in my book where, you know, you can ask things like what helps you feel in the mood? What's your favorite way for me to initiate sex? What's the best sex we've ever had? Right. What did that.
- [67:01]
B
That's a fun combo.
- [67:02]
A
Yeah, It's a fun place to launch.
- [67:04]
C
Yeah, right.
- [67:04]
B
Or even what's the sex we had in 2025?
- [67:07]
A
In 2020?
- [67:07]
C
Do it by the quarter.
- [67:09]
B
Like just recap. I love to recap.
- [67:11]
C
I love a. I love a good recap.
- [67:13]
A
I love a good recap. Exactly. What was quarterly check in?
- [67:18]
B
Yeah. What was the best sex we had in Q1?
- [67:20]
C
I feel like that conversationally to sex too.
- [67:23]
B
Anything we always.
- [67:24]
C
Sexual reminiscence. Just talk about it.
- [67:28]
B
Anything related to your sex life. You'll get the juices flowing.
- [67:31]
A
Exactly.
- [67:32]
B
But I love what you write in the book that intimacy is not counterintuitive to sexual desire because we've kind of told that they counteract each other. But you write in the book that it's over familiarity and complacency and intimacy enhances a couple's sex life.
- [67:47]
A
Exactly.
- [67:48]
B
But I love the things you mentioned of you need to have curiosity and respect and all these other things that enhance the relationship. Because I like the over familiarity and the complexity, complacency being the things that hinder the sexual desire as opposed to not intimacy, not closeness, not friendship. And you even combat the distance makes the harcofaunt or distance makes you hornier kind of sentiment as well. Like I think we've kind of been told, like you need time apart and you need to have mystery. And your point is like, not necessarily like closeness and intimacy fosters hot sex.
- [68:22]
A
Exactly. And this is where when we look at research from the gotten, it's so clear. Distance does not make the heart grow fonder over familiarity does. Taking each other for granted does. Right. And so I think people are really conflating this idea of mystery and really what we, you know, what we do want in relationships, which is a sense of evolution, curiosity and personal growth. And what I mean by that is, is, yes, you should have a sense of respect for each other's autonomy. Right. We tend to feel the most turned on by our partners when they are confident and radiant and in their element. Right. And the way to really sort of keep that dimension fresh in your relationship is for both of you to feel like you can focus on the things in your life and that bring you a sense of passion. Whether that's your career, whether that's your interest in some kind of a cause that you're dedicated to, whether it's your participation in a community within your kids, school or a book club, whatever it is, that's giving you a sense of an ability to be lit up with ideas that are not just the time spent with your partner. Yeah, right. But the key here is that you're bringing those new ideas and that novelty back to your relationship. And what happens is that when both of you are growing incrementally a little bit every day. Right. Or every month, and you're coming back and sharing those new aspects of each other, you're breeding a sort of freshness into your relationship. You're almost coming back together as slightly new evolved people each time. And that is going to keep the spark alive in your relationship. Yes, right.
- [70:11]
C
Love it. Esther Perel opens her TED Talk and she says, can we desire what we already have? Right. And she talks a lot about what you're talking about, which is that, like, it's not monotony with a partner. It's like monotony with your own life. Almost like you should go out and have interest in hobbies and friends and things that you do outside of the partner. And how sexy is it to look at your partner doing something that they're self actualized and they're confident? How much do you want to fuck that person after?
- [70:34]
A
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
- [70:37]
B
And I mean, distance can make the harker funnier. You go on a trip, you miss your partner, you come back. I think. But it's just like, I think a lot of people use that as this cornerstone of like, you must have so much time apart to be had to keep the spark alive. And that's not true.
- [70:50]
A
I just see so many therapists though on social media saying, oh, the problem with partners is they become too enmeshed. I just don't. I mean, that's just not what the research shows us. And that's also just not true. I will tell you from my own life, I have a lot of hot sex. I feel very enmeshed with my partner. Yeah, yeah, right.
- [71:09]
B
The closeness.
- [71:10]
A
Yeah, there's that closeness. Exactly.
- [71:12]
C
Enmeshment, I think, can be digested in different ways. We both have brothers that are married to women. They're very enmeshed in those relationships and with their kids. And I don't think the one thing necessarily leads to the other, but you're
- [71:23]
B
growing separately and that's the thing.
- [71:25]
A
Exactly. And there's always this risk. I think couples do kind of, of have a little bit of this fear of, well, what if we're just changing so rapidly in different directions that we go spinning off? Right. And of course that can happen. I mean, some couples you hear all the time do grow apart, but the difference there is that they're growing and then not reconnecting and sharing those aspects of each other on a regular basis.
- [71:47]
B
Someone feels left behind.
- [71:48]
A
They feel left behind. Exactly. They feel like they're not really being brought along on their partner's journey. Right. But when they are being brought along, right. When they are coming back and sharing all those exciting things happening that they're lit up about, then you are reconnecting and it's, you know, back to you brought up Esther Perel, you're no longer trying to crave what you already have because this new aspect of your partner is something new that you want. Right. It creates that kind of, you know, if we're going to be talking about distance, it creates that distance of, here's some new aspect of that that I want to get to know. And I think that's how we kind of keep falling in love with our partners and growing closer. And also when we're on the receiving end of that feeling seen and needed and valued, which is really what stirs desire.
- [72:34]
B
And you sometimes hear couples say when they become parents like, that it turns them on. And that is because they have completely entered a new role that like, seeing him as a father, seeing her as a mother, and that's like such a life change. That kind of just goes to show. It's like, we think these things are hot. When you mix it up, right? The ultimate mixing up is becoming apparent. You know, it's just like that's what a woman is saying when she's, like, seeing him as a father. Obviously that's the father of her children. But it's like seeing him in a new role. Like, you never got to see him as a sexy dad.
- [73:08]
C
Look at him go like, I know.
- [73:09]
A
Even the dad bod kind of come because of turn on.
- [73:13]
C
I find a dad bod I never had.
- [73:15]
A
It's cute.
- [73:15]
C
It's cute. So maybe we wrap this part up with talking about the different forms of intimacy, because you kind of break it down into different categories, and it's a good way to think about it. So we'll kick it to you to talk about it.
- [73:24]
A
Absolutely. So just like, there's different forms of pleasure, there's different forms of intimacy. And so, you know, I think couples often feel, especially if you've gone through a dry spell, you can feel like sex almost starts to feel awkward. And a lot of times that's because you haven't been engaging in other types of. Of intimacy. And so what are these other types of intimacy? Well, we can talk about, for example, intellectual intimacy that goes back a little bit to our conversation about leaning in and wanting to hear about each other's different worldviews or opinions or ideas that they're learning about. You know, maybe it's politics, maybe it's. Look, I mean, there's so many crazy things happening in the world right now. I mean, it could be uniting over a shared personal value. And looking at that, it could also just be connecting over a really good book that you just read.
- [74:13]
C
Article.
- [74:14]
A
Yeah, exactly. Any kind of intellectual piece where you feel like your partner is seeing this aspect of you and, you know, really feeling like it's turning their brain on, right? Then we have aesthetic intimacy, right? Taking in something like a beautiful meal or a gorgeous sunset or a beautiful painting, or just being in awe of something together.
- [74:34]
C
Just a shared experience.
- [74:36]
A
And going back to you Know, feeling a little bit turned on by seeing your partner in a new role. Right. When they're able to be a good father. Right. We might feel sort of connected to each other when, you know, I know, my husband and I, when our kids are doing something that they're shining at. Right. Our kids are all very sporty, so we heard a gymnastics meet last week and our daughter is, you know, doing all these backhand springs. And, you know, there's sort of a sense of connection, like, oh my God,
- [75:01]
B
obviously, look what we did, look what we did.
- [75:04]
A
Right. And there's sort of this shared sense of, you know, me.
- [75:08]
C
Oh, that's probably why my dad wants to get back together with my mom.
- [75:10]
A
Yeah.
- [75:11]
B
Shared sensible about you.
- [75:13]
A
It's all you.
- [75:15]
B
I just want to go to Raina shows with her.
- [75:17]
C
Go, no, please don't.
- [75:21]
A
Future oriented intimacy too. Right. And that's one where talking about, about the future, what you want, not just who's going to pick up the kid from daycare the next day or who's going to go to the grocery store to get milk. But like, what are your dreams? What are your hopes? What are you excited about in the future? Right. Again, all of these things help us to feel better, connected because again, we feel attracted to our partners when we see them shining in a light, but we also feel connected to them when we feel seen. Right. And that's when we experience those other things, forms of intimacy. I think it sort of helps to breed that. That feeling of sort of feeling validated and appreciated. Yeah. So I think fostering these other types of intimacy can just be so helpful for couples, especially if you're going through any kind of a dry spell and you're looking to sort of get that intimacy and overall connection back in your relationship so that you can feel like you can take a step towards sexual intimacy. And then finally, I mean, again, I cannot overemphasize just the importance of non sexual physical touch, the hugs, the being together. Like we talked about, just being side by side. I think a lot of couples come home from work at the end of the day. They're not spending time together. One's upstairs in the study on the computer. The other might be downstairs watching a movie. You know, you're not even in the same room together. Right. Trying to increase just the. Even, just the amount of time that you're spending in the same physical proximal space is going to be good for your sex life.
- [76:52]
B
Yeah. And what are you doing for dinner? Like, we connect over dinner. Like, we'll sometimes Cook together or I'll cook and. But he's in the kitchen with me. Or vice versa.
- [77:00]
C
Like.
- [77:00]
A
Right.
- [77:01]
B
Isn't that the time when you should connect? You know, like, are you just ordering takeout and you're in separate rooms and it arrives and you just eat it in separate rooms?
- [77:09]
A
It's so sad.
- [77:10]
B
We all have to eat. Girls gotta eat. We all have to eat dinner. That's the test, the easiest time, I feel like, to make sure you're exactly connected. So let's wrap this conversation up with this sexual destiny beliefs versus sexual growth beliefs and just, I guess, a encouraging note that our sexual dynamic is not permanent. Yep, right.
- [77:29]
A
Exactly. And that's what we find in the research, is that couples who have sexual growth beliefs, meaning they are committed to change. They are understanding this idea that sex can absolutely get better through communication, through feedback, that you can try things and have them epically fail and be able to have a sense of humor about it. And that sometimes we need to have bad sex before we can have good sex. And that's okay. It kind of works that way. Couples who have sexual destiny beliefs are more likely to believe that the type of sex you're having now is just kind of the type of sex you're always going to have. Right. That married sexual sex is just married sex. That sex doesn't really get better because chemistry is, you know, found, not made. When in reality, all of these things can be nurtured. It just comes down to being vulnerable and communicating and being open to feedback and failure, which is just a vital part of the whole process.
- [78:30]
C
And there are some people that aren't open to feedback and they're not open to growth, and maybe that's not your person. And I've definitely run up against that with people in the past that I really like them as people a lot. But it was just sort of off the table to discuss these things and to explore. And I'm a really sexual person, and I really like to talk about this, and I've trained for that my whole life. You know, my mom's the therapist. We talk about this in our show every week. So I'm not saying it's easy, but I've been with people that there was, like, a total unwillingness to do that. And sometimes that's just not your person.
- [79:00]
B
But if you're like Mary, you can try to go to therapy and get to the root of the problem. Like, you talk about this couple and it was like the same kind of man, like, you've dated a couple people like this, just trying to dig it out of this guy. And he felt insecure about his body and he was tired. And it's just like, you can try
- [79:15]
A
to figure that out in that example. Again, it wasn't about her.
- [79:19]
B
And he was like, shocked that she thought he wasn't attracted to her. But why would we think otherwise?
- [79:25]
C
I'm the person you're having sex with, right?
- [79:26]
B
Why aren't you initiating?
- [79:28]
A
Exactly.
- [79:28]
B
Have you seen couples, married or not, but long, long term. Years. Years get like freaky later in life.
- [79:35]
C
Like they.
- [79:35]
A
Oh, absolutely.
- [79:36]
B
They were just more vanilla and they like. I just want to say this in an encouraging way, like, because I think sometimes it can be really hard if you haven't really dabbled in some of these kinkier things early on. It's tough to pick them up later in life, but it can be done.
- [79:48]
A
In fact, if we, you know, look at research by Justin Lemiller, the people who are having these freaky fantasies tend to be middle. Middle age. Yeah, right.
- [79:56]
C
We.
- [79:56]
A
We think it's young people who want to be freaky and try all these different things. But I mean, if you think about it, middle age, it can be a time of sexual renaissance.
- [80:08]
C
Well, are we learning more as we get older? I'm freakier.
- [80:11]
B
Yeah, you're so close with that person. Let's try this thing.
- [80:14]
A
Let's try spanking. Why not? Let's try the blindfold. Let's try the pinwheel, whatever it is. Let's try being tied up and laughing about it.
- [80:23]
B
Right, though.
- [80:24]
C
Tie me up while I laugh about it.
- [80:25]
A
Why not? We tend to be more confident as we get older. We tend to care less about what other people think. We tend to know our bodies better. We tend to know our partners bodies better. All of these are kind of the exact ingredients you need to be able to have that sense of sexual freedom and curiosity. And so, yeah, I see a lot of couples where, you know, yes, there are definitely a group where that over familiarity sticks in. They haven't put in a lot of effort. It's not something they prioritize. They don't view having good sex when you're married as something that's important. If both people are on the same page about that, you know, the research shows that's okay, that's fine. But if you are interested in having a thriving sex life, do know that middle age can be a time when it can come roaring back.
- [81:14]
B
It's never too late.
- [81:15]
A
It's never too late.
- [81:16]
B
I really want to drive that message.
- [81:17]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [81:18]
C
I feel like I learn new stuff every year. You could do that. That's crazy.
- [81:21]
A
And me, even in my profession.
- [81:23]
B
Me too.
- [81:24]
C
I'm sure, I'm sure every week you learn something different.
- [81:27]
A
Exactly.
- [81:28]
C
Well, we want to touch on something that we haven't talked a lot about with like sex therapists and doctors, like hookup culture and casual sex. And can you be having casual sex without quote unquote going insane? Is that normal? How to navigate it? And on like a personal level, like recently I've been having some casual sex and I kind of just hit this wall where I was like, this just isn't that enjoyable. And I want to lay in bed with somebody afterwards and talk to them and enjoy hearing what they have to say and feel like a closeness. And yes, I think, you know, we are encouraged to be like sexually open and open minded. And I am those things. But I was sort of like, why isn't this as fun as it used to be for me, this vibe? And it's just, that's not what I want for my life. And I want committed intimacy. And if you don't want those things, that's fine too. But let's talk a little more about casual sex and like you or not liking it.
- [82:14]
B
I just want to like blow the lid off this, you know, and you tell us. But my feeling is that casual sex situations typically don't end well.
- [82:23]
A
Right.
- [82:23]
B
Again, whatever you got going on is great. And I feel like the satisfaction is short lived. I think a friends with benefits, someone's
- [82:31]
C
probably gonna get hurt.
- [82:32]
B
I think a fuck buddy, it feels short lived. It can be fun for a few times, but then you're, you're horny at different times and you're not, he's not. The booty calls aren't lined up. And I just feel like we were raised by Samantha Jones and I think she was a net positive in terms of empowerment and sexual expression. For sure. I mean, an icon. But I think maybe we thought we'd enjoy the casual sex a little more. We were kind of fed a narrative that probably doesn't work for the majority of people.
- [83:02]
C
And for the majority of time. I think you can do it a couple times and then one person does sort of start to, to develop feelings and you beat yourself up. Like, this was supposed to be casual, this was supposed to be my fuck buddy. But there's nothing wrong with being like, I've had these really intimate moments with somebody a few times and now I do start, I'm starting to feel something. But the contract we signed is not that Exactly. And there's nothing wrong with you for feeling like that.
- [83:23]
B
And like, casual sex, I've had a ton of it. This is like no judgment and one night stands and all the things you have, the stories to tell. And we've built careers on it and we do standup comedy about it. Like, you know, it's. Yeah, it's served me well, but when I really reflect, you're like, it's not the best sex. And sometimes you get hurt and you feel bad and, you know, I wonder how many people resonate with this narrative that, like, we thought we were going to be Samantha Jones and we ended
- [83:49]
C
up feeling like, shit, sorry, we're all feelings.
- [83:52]
B
We weren't our own feelings.
- [83:53]
A
Turns out we're all Charlottes. Yeah.
- [83:56]
C
And it turns out there's actually. That's very normal and healthy and there's like, nothing wrong with that.
- [84:00]
B
Yes. To have feelings and to like, it's the most intimate thing you can do. I'm reflecting on the strangers I got naked with.
- [84:07]
A
Never just sex.
- [84:08]
B
Yes.
- [84:09]
A
And that's the thing is, I mean, it is really complicated, right. And I do a lot of polling. One of the nice things about having 1200 students in my class every quarter is I can poll them, right. And so it's like we kind of need to hold space for two different types of experiences. Because on the one hand, yes, a lot of people are having some really negative experiences, either where the sex isn't that great and it leaves them feeling a little bit used to feeling like they were just entirely led on by the experience. Right. Like the person that they were hooking up with, they thought that it was in the context of maybe going somewhere, but they hook up with them and then they like get ghosted. Right. Or they, you know, my students are all on Snapchat, so there'll be sort of this social media exchange going on, but no real follow up. And I think that that feels really crummy. Right. And I mean, it's kind of why in my book I talk about my new consent manifesto where I say that, you know, we need to be talking about when we're engaging in casual sex, not only having consent to have sex with the other person's physical body. Right. Which is obviously critically important. Right. We need to be asking for consent. We need to be making sure all through the experience that everybody is consenting to everything enthusiastically and intentionally aware of how the other person is feeling. But we need to have consent emotionally too. Right. Which means having a level of emotional honesty about what the experience means. Not future faking. Right. As we talked about future oriented intimacy, talking about the future does lead a person on. Don't tell them you can't wait to introduce them to your parents if you don't have any intentions of, you know, seeing them again after that night. And I know some people will argue, well, what if you don't really know until, you know, after you've had sex with them? I kind of call bullshit on that. I feel like most people go into a sexual experience kind of having a sense of a certain intention, right? Like, kind of knowing this is somebody I actually am sort of interested in versus I'm not.
- [86:16]
B
Box theory is like, men unfortunately have you. And like, I'm gonna date her. I'm gonna just her box. It's not always the case, but, you know, that's why that's so popular.
- [86:26]
C
I think I'm glad that you said, I call. You don't need to tell me that I'm going to meet your family, that you think I'm so amazing you have feelings for me. Like, you don't actually have to say.
- [86:34]
A
You don't have to say those things and be transparent about your situation. Right. Are you moving across the country?
- [86:41]
C
Yeah.
- [86:41]
A
I had a story of a girlfriend who met someone. She was on a work trip, trip. Met this guy. They were at a hotel bar, had a great time. They had casual sex. By all measures, the casual sex was actually pretty good. But then the next day when she was like, well, if we're ever in the same city, maybe we can meet up again. Found out he was married. You know, that was just something he hadn't told her. So it's like these stories happen and that these, you know, create these terrible, empty experiences. And back to this, you know, Samantha Jones. It's like, I do feel one of the sort of pitfalls of the sex positivity movement is that instead of freeing women to have more of the sexual experiences they want to have, I mean, to some extent it has done that. But it's also almost put this new standard in place where I think a lot of women feel like they're kind of supposed to be having sex like a guy. It's sort of this traditional masculine, emotionalist hookup where we don't have feelings afterwards. That's leaving a lot of people feeling empty. But, you guys, here's the thing, right? Because unfortunately, it's not that simple. Otherwise I'd be out here preaching to everyone to stop hooking up and stop having casual sex. Because when we look at the research and When I poll my students every single quarter and I ask them about their emotional experiences, about hooking up up, about a third of them, right? So this is way less than half. But it's not zero. But about a third of them say it was awesome, say it was exciting, it was pleasurable, it was a fun adventure, it helped them feel hot, it helped them feel validated 100%.
- [88:24]
B
We've had those experiences.
- [88:26]
A
So I don't want to throw those experiences out and I don't want to pretend they don't exist. And we see this in the research, we see this. I see it quarter after quarter, year after year in my own classroom. And so for some people, I want to be saying, yeah, it's okay if you're interested in having casual sex. If you're newly single, maybe you're newly divorced and maybe not looking for a long term relationship, but are looking to get some action, that's okay. It's just about being honest about what it is that you want that you're looking for, being kind to yourself, that no matter what it is, that's okay. And just having a level of emotional honesty about it so that we can make sure our partners are on the same page.
- [89:13]
C
Yeah, I think we all want different things at different times in our lives. It's definitely. I've had a lot of casual sex. That's fun. I think I'm in an era where I'm realizing that, like, I don't want it, it doesn't feel good. I hurt my own feelings when I do stuff like that. And that's okay. It's okay for me to say I had a sexual intimate moment with a person that actually meant something to me. It means something to me to get naked with a person, have them be inside of me, share intimate moments with them, lay in a bed with them. That's okay to be like, it didn't work out the way I kind of thought it would and that hurt my feelings.
- [89:42]
A
Right.
- [89:42]
C
I am not, not every day. I'm my Samantha Jones and I'm a really sexual person. I love sex, but it's okay to also be like, I shared something really intimate with a person and I don't feel so casual. Casual about it.
- [89:53]
A
Yes. I mean, look, I had a slut era in my 20s too, that I massively enjoyed. Yeah, right?
- [90:00]
C
Yeah.
- [90:01]
A
100. And then I got to a point where I was like, this is feeling a little bit empty and I'm looking for something more meaningful. And then I met my husband and guess what? Like, I don't have any desire to go have other sexual relationships because I feel like I had a sampling of what's out there, and I have a sexual relationship growth mindset in my own relationship. But I'm glad I had those experiences. And they were fun. And even the ones that weren't awesome taught me something. Taught me something about my body, about what I want.
- [90:29]
B
Yeah. And all of our experiences in life aren't great. They're all learning experiences. But I just think. And if some people are built like Samantha Jones, and I think that's great. I think I was for a point in my life, and then I realized, like, I don't think I want to do this like this. And it's just been really glamorized. And so the point we're all trying make to make is don't feel bad if you catch feelings and you're not cut out for casual sex. And you talk about this woman that came into your office, her sister brought her in or something.
- [90:51]
A
Or something brought her in.
- [90:52]
B
And she was like, my friends are doing this. And it hits different for me. Like, my friends are running around and all over New York, and I don't like it. And it's like, that's fine.
- [91:02]
C
That's fine.
- [91:03]
B
You know, we can't all be sluts.
- [91:05]
C
Well, not all the time. All the time.
- [91:07]
B
Maybe you've just outgrown your.
- [91:09]
C
Or we.
- [91:09]
A
Maybe we just want to be a slut with our husband. Right, Exactly. But I mean, you hit the nail on the head. Like, it's about self compassion. Right. And it's about compassion that. No, like, catching feelings is real. Yes. You do bond. You do release oxytocin. That is a hormone, a neurotransmitter that is meant to bond you to the person that you're connecting with. That will happen. Right. And so don't try to force yourself to be so chill. To be so chill.
- [91:37]
B
Yeah. That's what you talk about in the book. This is chill culture. It's like you're shamed for catching feelings with someone you let inside of you.
- [91:44]
A
Right. You're told.
- [91:45]
B
How are you not supposed to.
- [91:46]
C
I know. And we beat ourselves up for. I really just, like, I can't hammer it home enough. I've just had some experiences that I'm just like, this will be fun. And we'll just have sex. And then I'm having sex with somebody that I like as a human being, because why would you not like them as a human being? And you're like, oh, I like them. And there's Nothing so fucked up about you that you're like, like, oh, I actually feel something for this person.
- [92:06]
B
Yes.
- [92:06]
A
No, that's not weak. That's called being a human bright.
- [92:09]
C
That's just being alive.
- [92:11]
A
And you're not lame if you're looking for clarity to be on the other end of that, right. Where you, you feel like you're not quite sure where things stand. And that's where I do talk about this culture of chill in my book that I know so many of my students, and I know people even who are single, who are older, in their 30s or 40s, sort of feel like we're in this age where it's easier to communicate than ever because we have all these electronic forms of communication, whether it's texting or social media. But those forms of communication are not that rich. Meaning it's hard to tell what somebody really wants when you're trying to interpret their intentions from leaving a fire flame on your Instagram story. Right. So don't be afraid to ask where things stand or express what you want. That's not lame. It's actually kind of hot to express a level of self confidence where you're like, no, I'd love some clarity. Right. And then be able to make a decision based on that information.
- [93:04]
B
The best situation I ever had was where we first started the podcast. I was hooking up with that guy that was 10 years younger than me and I was in control. He liked me more than I liked him. And I knew I was never going to date him. And we would have sex whenever I really wanted to. It was all on my terms. He was available and it lasted about six weeks, two months. And then it, I don't know, kind of crashed and burned. I got too drunk one night. I was like acting crazy and then. But that, that's what these situations, they just feel short lived, I think. I think things look enticing in the moment. And you know, a friend of ours, she had this great fuck buddy situation and then she was like, but I was horny the other night and he didn't pick up. You know, and then you feel rejected. Even though that's just you. Even if you don't want to date that guy, he wasn't available for your booty call when you were horny. And so I just think, think when you get into these situations, just know that they may not last.
- [93:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. And that's, you know, really what it comes down to is being intentional. So knowing what you like, really being honest with yourself about what you want not feeling bad about that. Not feeling like you have to apologize in any way for that. And feeling like you're able to communicate that to the person that you're with so that you can make sure that they're on the same page. Right. Because the thing is, something can be short lived, but still a worthwhile experience.
- [94:22]
C
Absolutely right.
- [94:23]
B
Oh, for sure. That was a great experience.
- [94:25]
A
Yeah, exactly. It sounds like it was actually for a while. It lasted pretty well.
- [94:30]
C
Write a bunch of comedy about it, become an comedian. Exactly.
- [94:32]
A
I mean, for the very least it gives you good material. And so we can have those experiences that are imperfect but that teach us something about ourselves or fulfill a need that we had at a, a certain time in our lives. And even if they kind of end awkwardly, we can still look at them as success stories because they fulfilled a very real need that we had in that moment.
- [94:53]
C
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [94:54]
B
Okay, one final question. We all know Gen Z is having less sex.
- [94:58]
A
Yes.
- [94:59]
B
And how much less than millennials, for example. And do you really feel that in your classroom?
- [95:07]
A
I 100% feel that in my classroom.
- [95:10]
C
Okay.
- [95:11]
A
Yes. They all are shocked because I poll them with this every quarter. If you had to guess how many students you know are sexually active right now in this classroom, what would you guess? And they all guess, like, I don't know, 70, 80%. And then are you sexually active? And it's like 40 to 45% of
- [95:28]
C
college kids I was getting banged out every survived.
- [95:34]
A
I know, me too. I know. Am I still alive?
- [95:36]
C
I know, I literally don't now.
- [95:38]
A
Yeah, it's just crazy.
- [95:39]
C
So like I went to the, I
- [95:42]
B
went to the house center. I thought I had an STD and I didn't. And I'm not going to share what actually was going on. And I, to celebrate, I went out that night and this random dude, like, to celebrate not having an ST that I thought I got from someone else.
- [95:53]
C
The real numbers I've racked up in my life were in college. Oh my God. Obviously.
- [95:58]
B
And we felt very safe around where we went to college. Like I felt safe and I got it in.
- [96:03]
C
But also it wasn't going to end up on the Internet in any way.
- [96:06]
B
Not orgasm.
- [96:08]
A
It wasn't going to end up on the Internet.
- [96:10]
C
And that was a big piece of it for, I mean, I didn't know, but like now looking back, I'm just like everything I do, I assume will end up on the Internet.
- [96:17]
A
Yes. So. No, that's exactly right.
- [96:19]
C
I hope not, but.
- [96:20]
A
And so I think there are like a few forces going on so yes, there's the Internet, right. And so students vocalize that, that they feel like they are afraid to even send like a text that might even be slightly suggestive because it could be screenshot and put on social media, or they're afraid that somehow it will get out there and people are so connected over social media that that will happen. But I think also life is just a lot more intense right now than it was when we were in school. And I can even say like looking at, you know, I have an 18 year old applying to college and just the level at which they're sort of expected to perform to get into college and to feel successful is so much greater than we were that age. So in other words, I just think the level of stress that exists right now for people in their 20s is just off the charts. I think that they're just really, you know, whether it's the economy, a lot of them have multiple jobs, are, you know, trying to balance schoolwork with everything they've got going on. And so I just sense that they're just a lot more stressed out than in general.
- [97:34]
C
Yeah, it's the anxiety generation.
- [97:35]
A
How can they not be generation? They're all on their phones and they've come through Covid where they didn't have sort of that natural developmental phase of learning to, to flirt and figure out if somebody else likes you and how to handle rejection and understand that it's not the end of the world if they don't like you back. And because they never sort of had that practice when they were younger, the stakes just feel so much higher now. And so I feel like that has come into play as well. Drinking less. They're drinking less.
- [98:09]
B
Yeah, we weren't healthy, we were binge drinkers, we were blacking out, you know, for sport. But I just, I have no judgment. I am grateful every day of the age I am and the way I was able to grow up. I mean, these young 20 somethings, late teens, mid-20s, like they grew up in a school shooting era. They've gone through the last 10 years of this Donald Trump era. The economy's in the shitter.
- [98:30]
C
You think they'd be drinking more.
- [98:31]
A
Exactly.
- [98:32]
B
They have the Internet. They had Covid, like it's, they have been dealt a really tough hand, really. And so I don't do this whole
- [98:38]
C
like they need to be having sex,
- [98:40]
B
but like we, where it's just like I feel for them and they'll figure it out.
- [98:44]
A
But like they, it's a lot harder.
- [98:46]
C
Times are just easier.
- [98:47]
A
The last Drinking thing is really interesting, right? It's really interesting. And, you know, there is part of me that just wonders if women are having less sex because they're drinking less. To a certain extent, are they having less of the sex that they never wanted to have in the first place?
- [99:05]
C
Yeah. When I look back at all the sex that I had and how blacked out I was, I never.
- [99:09]
A
And I was never wanted to have
- [99:10]
C
that sex, I want to say I'm thankful that I. To my knowledge, I've never been assaulted. I've never been forced into any type of intimacy. But would I have done it? Probably not half of the time. I mean, it just wasn't decisions I wanted to make.
- [99:22]
A
Exactly, exactly. So, I mean, in that regard, the fact that they're having less sex, maybe it isn't entirely negative.
- [99:31]
B
Totally.
- [99:31]
A
You know, we don't have those reasons. Also, you know, the other hopeful thing is that I do think Gen Z is being a bit more intentional in their dating choices. Right. I mean, which is not saying, be
- [99:45]
C
like me, which is good.
- [99:46]
A
Exactly. Like, even in the last couple years, I've definitely seen a bit of a vibe shift where it's like, I want to have more of an idea of where this thing's headed before I jump into bed with you. I'm not sure if I want to just, like, hook up and have it mean nothing. This whole trend, even now, of like, hot take dating. Right. Where you talk about right away, like we talked about. Yeah, I know you did. Yeah, I would love that. And it's like, you are being honest about the person that you are and what your values are and talking about real things before you jump into bed with somebody 100%.
- [100:21]
C
And no one ever told me to think about those things. Like, the number one piece of dating advice I had growing up, it's the same with dating advice. All of our parents, if he wanted to, he would. That's the only dating advice I had growing up.
- [100:31]
A
I know.
- [100:31]
C
And that's it. And I never really thought about all these things.
- [100:34]
A
It's very complicated. And then, of course, the other fascinating thing happening is that we have such more fluid ideas around gender and sexuality now that a lot of people are still in a very exploratory stage with their sexuality. Right. We know that 22% of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQIA. Yeah, 22%. 84ths of that group identifies as bisexual. And so to a certain extent, there might be a little bit of this idea of I need to figure out who I am first before I'm just going to be having all of these hookups, so that could be, you know, at play, too. Again, some of these are not necessarily negative things that are leading to a decrease in the frequency of sexual behavior we're seeing.
- [101:21]
B
Okay. We love that framing.
- [101:23]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [101:25]
C
Well, we could keep you here. I told her. I was like, this is going to be a long interview. He be here all day. And you are so amazing. And for people that can't take your course, the book is phenomenal. Actually, that's why Ashley's back in college.
- [101:37]
A
You can take my course over the summer asynchronously, if you'd like.
- [101:40]
B
Now?
- [101:41]
C
Really?
- [101:42]
A
You can?
- [101:42]
B
Like, if I'm not enrolled?
- [101:43]
A
Yes, you can.
- [101:44]
B
You send us link.
- [101:46]
A
We'll log in.
- [101:46]
C
Really?
- [101:47]
A
I'll send it to you.
- [101:49]
C
Actually, we'll come speak at your course.
- [101:51]
A
I'll post on my Instagram. Yes. Actually, no joke. You guys should totally dominate.
- [101:58]
C
Come to my show. I don't want to put you on the screen.
- [102:00]
A
Oh, my show in Seattle.
- [102:02]
B
Seattle.
- [102:03]
A
You should do it. That'd be amazing.
- [102:04]
B
We would love to be on my show.
- [102:06]
A
Do you guys want to come guest speak in my class? Yes.
- [102:09]
C
That's what we're asking. Oh, my God.
- [102:13]
A
That would be amazing. My students would freak out.
- [102:17]
C
Okay, April 30th is my show in Seattle. Ashley will come with me.
- [102:19]
A
Let's just discuss it.
- [102:20]
B
We would love it.
- [102:21]
C
We would love it.
- [102:21]
A
I would love it. I have AR coming the week before you, so she's great. She's amazing. She's awesome. So it's students are going to freak out.
- [102:28]
C
That would be amazing. We actually, we joke around a lot, but our live shows, people ask, like, what's the age range? They come to your live shows, and we say, we've seen more and more women coming with their daughters. So, like, women in their 40s bringing their daughters, like 20.
- [102:42]
A
Bringing my daughter and her best friend. Yes, please do. Please.
- [102:46]
B
This will be so exciting.
- [102:47]
A
That'll be so fun. I'm gonna do that. I can't wait.
- [102:50]
C
Okay.
- [102:50]
B
We'll chat offline about our.
- [102:52]
A
All right, sounds great.
- [102:53]
C
Okay, Tell everybody where they can get your book and find you and your Instagram.
- [102:57]
A
This was, first of all, such a pleasure, you guys. Thank you so much for having me. But, yes, please check out my book, you Could Be having Better Sex, which is sold everywhere. Books are sold. You can also follow me on Instagram or TikTok@nicolethesexprofessor or subscribe to my newsletter, which you can find by going to my website. Nicolethesexprofessor.com okay.
- [103:21]
B
And you guys can find us at Girls Gotta Eat.com get tickets to our Netflix is a joke live show in LA on May 7th girls got eat.com, girls got eat podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina Greenberg on Instagram and Raina greenberg.com for her tickets and we'll see you on campus and subscribe on YouTube. Watch on Spotify video on Spotify now and we will see you guys Thursday.
- [103:46]
C
Have a good week guys.
- [103:47]
A
Bye.
- [104:12]
B
Quick interruption worth hearing.
- [104:14]
A
If you love sports, TikTok is for you. Game highlights, expert breakdowns and fan reactions. Actions. Just the moments that matter.
- [104:24]
B
Download TikTok now.