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- [00:01]
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- [01:00]
Caroline Hirons
Here we are folks. The most insanely efficacious, sensorial, luxurious cleansing balm in the world has landed. I don't need to tell you what it takes to put my name to a cleansing balm, and this one had one mother of a brief. The skin Rocks Cleansing balm is the best balm ever created and one I would choose every single time over anything I've ever used. Five rollercoaster years of fearless ambition, sky high expectation, tears, trust, triumphs and F bombs. No pressure then, but what a result. Undoubtedly my most anticipated product. This was by far the hardest to make. The texture and crunch that took four years to perfect. Its ability to decimate literally everything on your face. The R in a jar scent, the paperweight, heavy hot pink glass. I mean, literally everything I adore in a cleanser has been distilled into one glorious jar and it is absolutely spectacular. Transforming from a solid balm to a rich replenishing oil, this barrier nourishing balm is formulated with the same innovative lipid advanced complex as the Support oil to deliver supreme skin barrier support and help improve skin firmness, elasticity and hydration. There is simply nothing like it. It's £55. It's ready and waiting and there is no dupe. Welcome to Glad we had this chat with me, Caroline Hirons. It's your one stop shop for all things skincare, beauty and beyond. My guest this week is one of the leading voices in the British beauty industry. She is the Guardian's resident beauty columnist, award winning author and journalist, and fortunately for me, a good mate of mine. It's Sally hughes. Twice in 24 hours. What a treat.
- [02:38]
Sally Hughes
I know. We were just on a trip together.
- [02:40]
Caroline Hirons
You're right.
- [02:41]
Sally Hughes
Yes. I'm fine now. I've got a cup of tea.
- [02:43]
Caroline Hirons
Cup of tea. No train, no train. No train. Thanks for coming.
- [02:47]
Sally Hughes
Thanks for having me.
- [02:48]
Caroline Hirons
Lovely to be here every time I weave and speak or anything's on my Insta. Or we. When I did chats with C. When I literally just grabbed you in a hallway in a restaurant.
- [02:58]
Sally Hughes
Yes, you did.
- [02:59]
Caroline Hirons
I literally.
- [02:59]
Sally Hughes
I was on my way out of a pee.
- [03:01]
Caroline Hirons
On your way to the toilet and then on the way out. Yeah. My lot, as we would say, absolutely obsessed with you.
- [03:08]
Sally Hughes
Oh, that's nice.
- [03:09]
Caroline Hirons
And I thought it would be nice to elaborate more rather than the usual, because when we meet up, we very rarely talk about skincare and beauty.
- [03:17]
Sally Hughes
No, no, that's true.
- [03:18]
Caroline Hirons
We talk about everything around it. We talk about politics a lot.
- [03:22]
Sally Hughes
Yes.
- [03:22]
Caroline Hirons
Children. To a certain degree.
- [03:24]
Sally Hughes
Yes.
- [03:25]
Caroline Hirons
But I thought, I don't know how much people know about your past in terms of why you know so much about things like makeup.
- [03:34]
Sally Hughes
Okay.
- [03:34]
Caroline Hirons
Because you and I had similar beginnings in that we both left home early. How old were you when you left Wales?
- [03:40]
Sally Hughes
Just before I was 15.
- [03:42]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, that's. There's early and then there's.
- [03:44]
Sally Hughes
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't recommend it. I certainly don't think it's a fabulous story. It's just what happened.
- [03:50]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. And then you ended up in London.
- [03:53]
Sally Hughes
Yes. Came to London, then went to Brighton. 70. It was in London for 17 years, and I think I've been in Brighton for 18 years.
- [04:02]
Caroline Hirons
I'm just going to jump straight in. How did you get into makeup? Because you did a lot of the club scene, didn't you? Every time I see anything on Facebook, if there's anything to do with Soho or anything to do with clubs, and it's always you and your mate. So we did this and then we went there and I'm like, how do I even have the conversation with you that you used to do that?
- [04:20]
Sally Hughes
Well, because my friends tend to be really old friends. I've had the same friends for a really long time. So that's why you'll see us all talking about the clubs we used to go to. Yes, I used to go out in Soho a lot and acid house clubs and things like that. So that's where that comes from.
- [04:36]
Caroline Hirons
Acid house.
- [04:37]
Sally Hughes
Yeah. And in fact, a drink in Soho is how I ended up working in the industry. So I was obsessed with fashion and beauty growing up. Obsessed to the point where, like, my party trick was you could hold up any shoot in Elle or vogue or just 17 or looks, and I would tell you who the model was, who the makeup artist was, who the stylist was, and I could just tell you without checking the credits, I was just obsessed. And so I knew a lot as a kind of fan, I suppose. And then also I was born with ichthyosis, which is a genetic skin condition, which meant I was in dermatologist's office for a long time when I was a kid. Got discharged when I was about 11, I think, because I was doing a better job of managing it than they were. And most dermatologists will say this to you, that the person inside the skin is generally the expert in their own skin because they can see immediately what responds, you know, how well you respond to things and so on. And so I was managing the condition really well myself, so I got discharged. That's where the obsession with skin came from. The obsession with fashion and beauty was ongoing. So I came to London and one night I was in a bar called Fred's on Carlisle Street. I was very young, so I think I was 15. Yeah, I would have been 15 at this point, dressed in, you know, something absolutely outrageous.
- [06:04]
Caroline Hirons
And.
- [06:04]
Sally Hughes
And I was introduced to a makeup artist at the time. Her name was Pearl. Her real name was Lynn Easton, so her credit was Lynn Easton, but she was known as Pearl. And I was introduced to her and we just got talking. She was a friend, actually, of a friend. I said, oh, I love your work. I loved this shoot you did. I love that shoot you did. And she said, God, you seem to know an awful lot about this. She said, I'm looking for an assistant. I'm about to stop working with the assistant I have. Are you interested? And I said, yes, absolutely. I didn't have a kit or anything. And then we did our first job on a chocolate commercial a week later. People who follow lots of beauty accounts on Instagram, you. You may know Celia Burton, the makeup artist. Celia is Pearl's niece.
- [06:48]
Caroline Hirons
Right.
- [06:49]
Sally Hughes
And Celia inherited Pearl's makeup kit, which I always think, so lovely. And so I've sent her lots of pictures over the years, lots of snapshots over the years of, like, us in the park, us in bars. She's got loads of pictures. She didn't have a Pearl before that. I've sent her and we keep in touch about that. She's so lovely. It's lovely to see the legacy sort of carry on. But, yeah, so I became her assistant and trained under her as makeup artist. But all I ever wanted to Be was a journalist. I didn't want to be a makeup artist. I never wanted to be one. I wouldn't have been good enough to be one. Not a successful one. I just only wanted to be a writer. So as soon as I was old enough to get work experience on magazines, that's what I did. And I've been a journalist for, I'm gonna say, 28 years. Something like that.
- [07:40]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. And where was.
- [07:41]
Sally Hughes
Did every other imaginable job along the way?
- [07:43]
Caroline Hirons
We all did our business and waitressing and service industry, as we had the conversation before.
- [07:48]
Sally Hughes
I've done waitressing, I've done cleaning, I've worked in shops, I've done ironing. Yeah, you name it.
- [07:54]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, you name it, we'll do it.
- [07:55]
Sally Hughes
Pub. Worked in a pub. Worked in the Locked Tavern in Camden. Yeah.
- [07:58]
Caroline Hirons
Bloody hell. What was your first writing job?
- [08:01]
Sally Hughes
My first writing job was a film review of the film Drop Dead Fred starring Rick Mayall.
- [08:07]
Caroline Hirons
God. And that's. That's some while ago.
- [08:11]
Sally Hughes
I didn't get paid, but it was the first time I wrote something that appeared in print, I think. Yeah.
- [08:17]
Caroline Hirons
And where did you go from there?
- [08:19]
Sally Hughes
So I did loads of work experience over the years. You never got paid for work experience, so I always had to work at the same time. So I did work experience on loads of magazines. Worked on Take a Break. Worked on Looks magazine. Worked on so many mags. Worked on Women's Journal, which no longer exists. I mean, none of these magazines really exist except Take a Break. And then I finally got my break. I became the fashion writer at Loaded. Actually, I didn't. That's not true. I became the fashion assistant at Loaded. And I went to the editor and said, you should have a fashion news section. There's no writing about fashion. There's only pictures. And so they gave that to me. And then after a few months of that, I don't know, maybe three, I went back to the editor and said, you don't have a grooming section. You could probably sell quite a lot of advertising if you had a grooming section. So he said, do you want to do that? I said, yeah. So I went away and I did that.
- [09:16]
Caroline Hirons
And then. How old are you at this point?
- [09:18]
Sally Hughes
I think this would have been 97, 98, thereabout. And so I did that. So I then wrote those two sections. And then while I was writing those sections, I won my first Jasmine Award for a piece about fragrance. And when I was at the awards ceremony, lots of editors came up to me and said, we really like that piece. Can you freelance. Would you like to write something for us? And so then I started writing for Marie Claire, Marie Claire, Health and Beauty Attitude magazine, those sorts of magazines. And that was it. Then I was kind of off and running.
- [09:53]
Caroline Hirons
What was the piece that you won your Jasmine Award for?
- [09:55]
Sally Hughes
It was the first time I won it because I won another one the next year trying to remember which way round they were. The first one I won it for, I think was a piece about the fragrances that elegant men wear. And it was a really long piece. It was like two and a half thousand words or 2,000 words. A really long piece. And I remember feeling quite proud of it at the time. I dread to think how bad it is. If I went back and read it now, it's probably awful, but I was quite proud of it at the time and for some reason I just had the guts to enter it and it won. And then off the back of that I got loads of work and then I never stopped working. I feel very lucky to be in that generation of journalists because it's very, very hard for the new generation of journalists to only do journalism.
- [10:43]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. They've also got to be content creators.
- [10:46]
Sally Hughes
And, and, and do part time jobs and everything. Although I did stay at the Gap for. I was the weekend manager at Whiteley's Gap Kids for the first probably year. I was a working journalist.
- [10:59]
Caroline Hirons
I very much enjoy your Gap stories on Facebook. They are very entertaining.
- [11:03]
Sally Hughes
I kept working there because I. And people thought this was so crazy. But my dream was to become a journalist and when I got a job as a journalist I just couldn't say goodbye to my team and my friends at Gap. We were so close. We're still so close. Is that where you met the boys? Yeah, yeah. So my best friend. Among my best friends were a group of boys I used to work with at the Gap. I just couldn't bear to say goodbye to everyone and so I kept on. I stayed on as Saturday and Sunday manager for a long time.
- [11:30]
Caroline Hirons
So, so bizarre.
- [11:31]
Sally Hughes
So I worked seven days a week. But I just loved it.
- [11:34]
Caroline Hirons
If, you know, you always wanted to write, did it always come naturally to you? Did you do well at school when it was writing or did you just. Were you a voracious reader? Where did that come from? And was it just pure chance that you ended up writing about beauty or did you always see the opportunity to mix the two?
- [11:50]
Sally Hughes
I have never just written about beauty.
- [11:52]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, I mean at the beginning, if you were. When you were getting. Because you had passion.
- [11:55]
Sally Hughes
At first though, I was fashion Well, I was kind of general work experience then my first job was in fashion writing. And then for a long, long time I didn't even write about fashion when I went freelance. I think when I hit about 30, I only wrote first person opinion for a long, long time. And general features and cover interviews. And I still do cover interviews. I don't really do general features very much anymore. But I came back, I came back to beauty later on. I'd always done bits and pieces, but I was mainly a kind of straight journalist, as. As you'd call it, kind of women's lifestyle stuff. And then I came back to it. I was, I used to write lots of features for the family section on the Guardian and for the comments section of the Guardian. So that's how I started working at the Guardian. I didn't write beauty for them in the beginning, but yeah, I like, I love beauty and I love fashion and I'll always talk about those things, but I'd go a bit mad if I couldn't talk about anything else.
- [12:56]
Caroline Hirons
But did you enjoy it when you were younger? You say you always knew you wanted to write. Journalist.
- [13:01]
Sally Hughes
Yes, yes. I only ever wanted to write. I didn't have a plan B. I only ever wanted to be a writer. And as to your point of did it come naturally? I mean, yeah, I found English the easiest subject definitely at school. I'm absolutely atrocious at maths. I basically had a faked period for my entire secondary school career when it came to pe. I hate sport. I hate pe. I hate maths. I wasn't particularly interested in science, although I'm now in awe of people who are scientists. But as a kid I just wanted to write. That was all I ever really wanted to do. Yeah, and I was good at it. In terms of whether I was good at school. I didn't find school hard. I just didn't go. Just weren't bothered I didn't go.
- [13:57]
Caroline Hirons
Strap yourselves in, people. I'm going on tour for the first time ever and I am so here for it, bringing our wild and wonderful glad we had this chat podcast to a venue near you. Promising you an unforgettable night of unbridled honesty, unfiltered opinions, F bombs and fearlessness. Come join me and a stellar lineup of special guests as we talk all things skincare and beauty, along with frank discussions about life's adventures, challenges, highlights and joys. With exclusive on stage skincare demos, entertaining Q and a healthy dose of unscripted hilarity. This is Caroline Hirons. Me live and apparently on steroids. It's happening. Get your tickets now@carolinehirans.com and secure your spot. When did you. Did you get approached or did you pitch for the iconic. See where I'm going here. Pretty honest and pretty iconic.
- [14:53]
Sally Hughes
God, I mean, that was such a mad period of my life. So.
- [14:57]
Caroline Hirons
And we saw. I saw. We saw each other quite a lot in that phase and you were like crazy busy. Yeah, it was like. It seemed for a while, it was like whirlwind around you.
- [15:06]
Sally Hughes
Yeah, that was a crazy period. So lots of things were happening for me personally. So I was approached by an agent called Curtis Brown and to write a novel they had read. Sorry, my non Beauty, writing a lot of it over the years. And they approached me and said, would I. Would I be interested in writing a novel? So I was about 40,000 words into this novel and I began to get divorced and I had absolutely no money and I had to pay for this divorce for various long and personal reasons. I had no money. So I thought maybe if I write a book about beauty, maybe I could make some money to pay for my divorce. And I approached my agents and they said, no, I no think you should carry on with the novel. So that slightly went off the boil. Then one night I was at Gizzy Erskine had a dinner party for a cookbook she had coming out, and her publisher came up to me at the dinner and said, have you considered writing a beauty book? And I said, well, yes, I have, but my agent's not keen on the idea. And she said, I'd be really interested in buying it if you did. So I switched agents and okay. Then I went to a different agent who's still my agent, and she said, I think there's something in this. And I said, well, Dizzy's publisher wants it. And she said, no, I think we should send it out more widely. So she said, write a proposal. So I wrote a three page proposal. I think it was of pretty honest of what became pretty honest. Actually it was pretty faithful to the book we ended up with. And she sent it out and lots of people wanted it, luckily. And so I went with Fourth Estate. So that was my first book and then my second book. So yes, it was entirely my idea, but with some encouragement from a publisher and then my second book. So I've written four in total, as well as a bit of ghost writing here and there. My second book, Pretty Iconic was a book I wanted to read. It was a book I wanted to buy for myself. Because if you are somebody who has been obsessed with beauty your whole life. Those products really mean something to you. And I. I wanted to cover the iconic beauty products of the past because to me, much of it was like my personal mixtape. It was like my beauty mixtape.
- [17:40]
Caroline Hirons
I think it's your love letter. Yeah, I think pretty iconic is your love letter. It's my favorite. Just because it's like you said, those of us who are obsessed with beauty. I totally got where you were coming from. And I knew. I almost knew what was going to be in it. Obviously not all of it, but I was like, she's going to have Elnet, she's going to have Clinique, she's going to have. And I had this whole. And there was no letdown, There was no. Oh, I wouldn't put that in there. It was just. Absolutely. But I was also surprised it hadn't been done before.
- [18:05]
Sally Hughes
Yes, me too. And, you know, it wasn't entirely my idea. I mean, it was my idea to do a beauty format of it. But I really got the idea from Nigel Slater. Nigel Slater has been really encouraging of me. It was Nigel Slater's the reason that I joined Fourth Estate, which is his publisher.
- [18:22]
Caroline Hirons
He's a phenomenal writer.
- [18:24]
Sally Hughes
He's a phenomenal writer. I read his books.
- [18:25]
Caroline Hirons
Like novels.
- [18:26]
Sally Hughes
Absolutely. So do I. He's a phenomenal writer. He's a really lovely man. And I was talking to him when Harper Collins, Fourth Estate, which is part of Harper Collins, were trying to buy my first book and people were bidding. I was invited to a party and Nigel Slater was there and I said, fourth Estate. Want me to come to Fourth Estate? What you think? And he and I talked for ages and he said, you should absolutely go with Fourth Estate. And his book, which was all about great British dishes and his memories of certain dishes, whether it was a cheap ice cream in a stainless steel bowl or whatever, or a bounty or whatever it was. I really loved that book. And Eating for England, I think it's called. Yeah. And pretty iconic. Definitely came from reading that book and me thinking, I really think there's something to this. And then it was finished off by the fact that my husband, who wasn't yet my husband, but he was in the loft and there were all these sandwich bags filled with beauty products. And he said, how can you possibly want these? They'll all be gone off. And I said, you cannot throw them away because they don't exist anymore.
- [19:36]
Caroline Hirons
Don't you dare.
- [19:37]
Sally Hughes
Prada Monodose Skincare, for example. I've still got all of that.
- [19:41]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. I didn't keep Any of that.
- [19:42]
Sally Hughes
I've still got all of that. And it's a piece of beauty history. And I just felt in the loft I had this kind of archive of beauty products and I wanted to remember them. And I was always reading pieces in women's glossy magazines where women would say, oh, my mother left me her Chanel suit or whatever. And I'd be like, that's not my life. That's no one I know's life. I remember Olay or Yulay. I remember Pond's Cold cream. I remember my dad, my granddad's Old Spice. Those are the things I remember. I don't remember Chanel handbags and Chanel suits. It was those kind of everyday items. Vosine. Those everyday items, everyday smells. That's my memory. I've chanted.
- [20:30]
Caroline Hirons
I'm glad you said spells.
- [20:31]
Sally Hughes
Yeah.
- [20:32]
Caroline Hirons
Fragrance has become your. I think it's become a bit more of a calling card for you these days, personally. Yeah, I. I love it when Instagram serves me up. Your fragrance diaries. Your perfume diaries.
- [20:44]
Sally Hughes
Oh, God, they're such a pain in the ass to make.
- [20:46]
Caroline Hirons
I couldn't imagine. That's why I love watching them, because they look like they're an absolute pain in the ass to make.
- [20:50]
Sally Hughes
They are such a nightmare. They take me days.
- [20:52]
Caroline Hirons
I can. I look at them, I go, oh, how does she have the energy?
- [20:56]
Sally Hughes
Because I really regret starting.
- [20:58]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, but you can't stop now because they're addictive. Because I don't. I don't have. I don't have them as we. You know. Because you say, I like to smell like a bag of sweets, which is fair. I like it. I don't particularly like a sophisticated. Yeah, but I do now I'm older. I do. And actually, now that I'm postmenopausal, my nose is much better. I think I was so sensitized to fragrance when I was going through the menopause that things would just give me a migraine or make me feel nauseous.
- [21:23]
Sally Hughes
Yeah. Yeah. And lots of people. Sensitivity. Smell changed during COVID as well.
- [21:26]
Caroline Hirons
I think that's changed. And I don't have that now. Now I'm like, oh, that smells amazing. You know? But I think the work you do around fragrance and the way you talk around fragrance, to me, it's astounding in the most impressive way for someone who. It's not like you're a classically trained nose.
- [21:42]
Sally Hughes
No.
- [21:43]
Caroline Hirons
It's not like you had that educational aspect because, you know, we're secondary secondary school kids. But you write in a Way that I've always watched those and thought you would make killing if you did qvc, if you. If you sold fragrance on qvc. So there was a story about qvc. Right, so Molten Brown were the first beauty brand to ever do a million pounds in an hour.
- [22:04]
Sally Hughes
Yes. I knew that because I did a story on QVC where I became a presenter for a day.
- [22:09]
Caroline Hirons
They did the TSV. And Jill, who presented Molten Brown, then went on to train people who wanted to do qvc. And I did a training with her because she would not. She would do what you and Alistair park do and talk about fragrance in a way that takes you. Drags you into your camera and then goes, and I have this. Everything you describe. I'm like, I'm on the tube with Sally. I'm on a train with Sally. I'm at that event with Sally in a way that is far more impressive than someone like me who just goes, this smells lush. Because that's about all I manage. I go, I really love this. Or I hate this. But you describe it in a way that you hate. You see, chefs talk about food. Like, if there was a show called, like, you've got the bear.
- [22:48]
Sally Hughes
Yeah, Love the bear very much.
- [22:50]
Caroline Hirons
Yes, Chef. Yes, Chef. It would be, yes, Sally. Yes, Sally. If you were talking about fragrance, I.
- [22:54]
Sally Hughes
Think here's the thing about fragrance. So I absolutely love fragrance. And you need to love it. I don't think you need to know about it. You need to love it. Because the joy of fragrance is you're never wrong. You can't be wrong.
- [23:04]
Caroline Hirons
Can't be wrong.
- [23:05]
Sally Hughes
You're not wrong.
- [23:05]
Caroline Hirons
It's like musical taste.
- [23:06]
Indeed Advertiser
Yeah.
- [23:06]
Sally Hughes
You're not wrong. I'm not wrong. If it touches you, if it makes you feel something, you're right. If you can smell coconut and I can't, you're not wrong. You can just smell coconut. Right? So that's the beauty of fragrance. It is absolutely free. Just say what you smell. But here's the thing about fragrance. Most beauty journalists hate writing about fragrance.
- [23:28]
Caroline Hirons
Because they're not good enough.
- [23:29]
Sally Hughes
Well, it's hard. It's really hard. And you have to be able to do it. And it doesn't mean anyone is better or worse, but you just have to connect with it in order to be able to write about it. And lots of journalists hate writing about it because they don't connect with it. I love it. I have always loved it. And also, I like the hardness of it. I like how difficult it is. So at the beginning of my career, I did a course With Roger Dove.
- [23:58]
Caroline Hirons
Oh, wow.
- [23:59]
Sally Hughes
At that time, I went to interview him. I was captivated by our conversation. I wrote up the interview, and he said, if you want, I'm doing a fragrance appreciation course. It was only like, two days, or maybe even it was one day. It was a very short course.
- [24:12]
Caroline Hirons
Anyway, Will link to Roger below. Don't worry.
- [24:14]
Sally Hughes
Yeah. And I loved it. I was absolutely hooked. But I loved it when I was a child. And I think if you love it and if you are able to write or if you're able to talk, then you can write and talk about fragrance. And I think people get too hung up on the technicality of it. But what I always say to people, I mean, I'm one of the few journalists who writes about everything across beauty. Right.
- [24:40]
Caroline Hirons
Taken seriously when you do all of them.
- [24:42]
Sally Hughes
Yeah. And I don't do health, and I don't do wellness because I find wellness problematic, and I find health boring. Right. Health is obviously very important, but I.
- [24:50]
Caroline Hirons
Find it about manifestation.
- [24:53]
Sally Hughes
But I'm one of the few journalists that writes about all the categories within beauty. And I always say to people, look, they're so, so different how you approach the writing, because skincare is science, makeup is art, but fragrance is magic. And you have to approach them in completely different ways. And I think the closest thing to fragrance writing is not skincare or makeup writing. The closest thing to fragrance writing is wine writing because it's so subjective and you're having to pull comparisons and metaphors and analogies out of the sky. And you are basically describing, in the case of fragrance, air. You're trying to explain air to people, but you do.
- [25:39]
Caroline Hirons
It's quite bonkers, but you do it very well. How many Jasmine awards have you won? If you have to stop and count, it's a lot.
- [25:46]
Sally Hughes
I mean, more than a handful. Yeah. Like six.
- [25:50]
Caroline Hirons
What was your favorite article that you wrote or most memorable? Oh, because we'll dig it out and put a link in.
- [26:00]
Sally Hughes
I had to write. I won one year for a piece I wrote for Stylist, which was a love letter to number five. And it was like a personal why number five is so great. And that meant a lot to me because my relationship with number five is very personal. I mean, it's basically the longest relationship of my life, to be honest. And it was really personal. I would have been really upset if somebody else had done it and it won. So, yeah, that meant a lot to me.
- [26:30]
Caroline Hirons
Like tick.
- [26:31]
Sally Hughes
Yeah. Yeah.
- [26:41]
Caroline Hirons
There are a few things in life that just keep on giving. For 3.99amonth? A floppy fuel station sarnie? One small cup of bougie? Overpriced coffee? I don't think so. Or for the same price, you could be getting a month's worth of skincare insights and know how from yours truly. A wealth of fresh, expertly written articles on all things skincare and beauty. From our free to download version for essential educational content to our elevated premium experience, the Skin Rocks app will revolutionize how you shop and learn about skincare. Whether you're a novice building your first routine, an aficionado wanting deep scientific expertise, or someone looking for the inside scoop on beauty newness, it's all in one pocket. Friendly place on the Skin Rocks app with simple to use functions that let you filter for your personal profile, save your favorite content, and explore a vast product library with ease. It's no wonder it's called the Google of Skincare. Unlock a world of incredible premium content for just 3.99amonth $34.99 a year or get a special discount via the podcast with code chpod to get £10 off your annual subscription.
- [27:44]
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- [29:50]
Caroline Hirons
Digressing slightly before we go down the beauty in the skincare road, because obviously I'm going to have to pick your brain beauty banks. Where was the impetus? If you just tell us, because obviously I know and will again, we'll do a big link to make sure people can access and help. For those of you listening, all of this will of course be in the show notes. Where was the impetus for that? Because you have to have seen it, I think, to experience it. So did someone have a conversation with you and say, we're actually struggling really hard with this, or.
- [30:21]
Sally Hughes
No. I was in a homeless shelter. I was sitting in a homeless shelter getting ready to film something with BBC Wales about homelessness. Yeah, I had written and presented an item about homelessness for Welsh television for the BBC. This was a few years ago, 2018, end of 2017, something like that. And amongst other places, I was filming in a homeless shelter in Cardiff called the Huggard Centre and I was sitting behind reception. And the Haggard Centers can be quite a dangerous place. A different homeless shelters have different atmospheres. The Haggard is so massive, it's a little bit nerve wracking to be there. People with very chaotic, troubled lives, lots of mental ill health and so on. So I was kind of locked behind reception waiting to start filming. I looked under the desk and there were. There was a cardboard box under the desk and it had single tampons in it, single Bic razors, tiny little, you know, the kind of soap you get in a Premier Inn or a Travel Lodge or whatever. Bits, just bits, you know, in this cardboard box, mini toothpaste. You might get on a plane, you know. And I said to the receptionist, what's that? And she said, oh, well, if a client of ours has her period, we find her a tampon. Or if somebody has a housing meeting and they need a shave, or if somebody's going to see their kids, you know, a maintenance visit with their kids and they need to scrub up, we give them what we can. And I said, where does it come from? And she said, we just, we just bring it in. If we're ever on a flight, if we're ever in a Hotel. If we're ever somewhere where there's something free, we take it and we put it in the box. And I just thought, this is bullshit. Like, what on earth. We work in an industry that is an orgy of product. And there were lots of things going on at the same time. I had been complaining about waste within the industry and Joe, who is my friend, who is a pr, she was complaining a lot. And there were lots of things happening politically. We'd been declared to be in a poverty crisis or we were on our way to being in this country. I think Trump had just got in Brexit. It just happened, like, it just seem. Seemed like a bit of a hopeless time. And Joe and I had been talking for a few months. What can we do to cheer ourselves up, to be honest? What can we do that makes us feel less despairing? And so I texted her, took a picture of the box and I texted her from the Huggard and said, this is bullshit. I mean, we must be able to do something about this. And she said, let's get all the brands to give us products and ask members of the public to give us products and we'll give them to people who can't afford them to stay clean. She went slightly, food banks in it, Beauty banks. I went, oh, yeah, great. And so we. The next day I wrote a column about it for the pool. And then the next thing I knew, we just had film crews following us. We were on the news, we were in all the press, and we accidentally started a charity. We didn't register for about six or seven months after that, but it was absolutely full on from day two.
- [33:38]
Caroline Hirons
How has the need changed since you started? Has it gotten worse?
- [33:41]
Sally Hughes
Yes.
- [33:42]
Caroline Hirons
Is there light at the end of the tunnel?
- [33:43]
Sally Hughes
So we're now quite a big charity. So we. What we do is we give essential hygiene products and toiletries to over 750 UK charities. So that is Northern Ireland, Wales, England and Scotland. And we send the products to them. So they might be homeless shelters, they might be women's refuges, they might be family centers. Sure, Start sort of centers or what. What was Shore Start, Addiction centers, mental health charities, churches who have interim food banks in the church, food banks themselves. I mean, every type of charity that looks after people in poverty, refugees, you name it. So over 750 organizations, and I think like 18 months ago, we were somewhere around 300. So we. The need has more than doubled. We cannot service everyone, although we always try. And I think our approach is unique. People get what they ask for. We can generally Source them, what they actually need. We don't just send them generic packs that they might not need. We. We find out what they need, where their needs are, who their clients are. So, for example, a homeless shelter will typically be 75% male clients, so we would skew what we send them in one direction. Another charity might have their own bathroom, so we would send them jumbo sizes so that everybody can help themselves. A homeless shelter would need minis, obviously. It's a family center. We're talking baby products. We're talking washing powder, hygiene products, nappies, that kind of stuff. In schools, we like to send them, like, cool, like, designer shower gels if we have them, so they don't feel left out from the other kids. So we're really. The team is amazing. The team is absolutely amazing at, like, making sure people get things that aren't just the bare minimum, they're things that make them happy.
- [35:33]
Caroline Hirons
It's a massive undertaking.
- [35:35]
Sally Hughes
Yeah, it's huge.
- [35:36]
Caroline Hirons
Did the scope of it shock you?
- [35:39]
Sally Hughes
Yes. I don't think we would have started it if we knew what we know. No, no. It is so much work. Obviously, we don't get paid. Jo and I don't get paid. We obviously pay the team. We definitely didn't know how much work it would be. However, I'm glad I didn't know because I'm glad. I'm glad we did it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a. It's a great thing to be a part of and it makes you feel good to be part of, if not a solution. It makes you feel good to be doing something, of service, doing something, rather.
- [36:08]
Caroline Hirons
Than the alternative, which is to sort of complain and wag your finger at the TV or wag your finger at.
- [36:14]
Sally Hughes
People who are doing something, which is a.
- [36:16]
Caroline Hirons
That's another thing that we both experience. That's another thing. Yeah. Digressing and going back slightly, what is your earliest memory of beauty in terms of. Like I've said before, my earliest ones are like, my mum and my grandmother taking their makeup off at night. And then when my mum would leave the house, especially on, like, a winter's night, and the fragrance would. Just the. The coldness and the crispness of fragrance. Is there a word for. Because I know there's a. There's a word for the smell of the grass after the rain has dropped. Petrich. But is there, like, a perfume core that we could adapt? Because it's so strong in me that when I come in from work, when I come into the house and it's been cold.
- [36:59]
Sally Hughes
Yeah.
- [36:59]
Caroline Hirons
And I feel my perfume kind of coming with me. I have a moment of, ah, it's.
- [37:03]
Sally Hughes
One of those things where probably Scandinavians have got about 18 words for it. They probably have, but not as far as I know. Maybe one of your listeners will correct me and I would love to know if I'm wrong. I remember my first beauty memories. For sure. My mother didn't live with us, but my grandmother. I spent a huge amount of time with my grandmother and my grandmother was always impeccably turned out. And my memory is of all working class women in South Wales looked amazing.
- [37:36]
Caroline Hirons
Same as Liverpool.
- [37:37]
Sally Hughes
Yeah. So they always had their hair done, you know. And it would be so cheap to get your hair done. It'd be like £1 50 or something to go and get your hair set. They always had their hair done. She always had her makeup on. And she. I would sit on her bed and she would sit at her dressing table and she'd put on her makeup. It was always cheap, you know, makeup like a number seven lipstick or whatever, which in those days was pennies. And I would watch her put her makeup on. And from being a very tiny girl because I lived with my dad and only brothers, I was so enchanted by the femininity of it, I suppose. And we wouldn't go anywhere. We wouldn't go anywhere until she had her face on. And I remember saying to her, she was putting on this bright pink lipstick one morning and we were just going on the bus for meat from the market in Blackwood and I said, why do you wear makeup? I don't know how old I was, maybe five or six. I said, why do you wear makeup? And she said because if I've got my makeup on, we're always ready to go on an adventure. And I just thought that was so. I completely understood it.
- [38:48]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. How old are you?
- [38:49]
Sally Hughes
At that point we never went on an adventure. We just went for meat from the market. But it didn't really matter.
- [38:53]
Caroline Hirons
But it was an adventure because you were with your.
- [38:55]
Sally Hughes
Exactly.
- [38:56]
Caroline Hirons
Nan. And they were.
- [38:57]
Sally Hughes
And I just remember sitting on the bus and on the way home she would retouch her nose with a powder compact. And that smell of airborne face powder on the bus. Just gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous. Max Factor cream puff.
- [39:13]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
- [39:13]
Sally Hughes
Inside a Stratton compact that she got given when she became a guide captain in this. In the guides. Wow. She got given this present and she. And it was so valuable. I think they were about eight pounds. They were really expensive. And she had this Max Factor cream puff inside and that smell of Max Factor cream puff in the air. It's just intoxicating.
- [39:33]
Caroline Hirons
What was the first product you remember buying?
- [39:37]
Sally Hughes
Beauty Body Shop? Well, I probably bought something from Constance Carroll from Superdrug. We had Superdrug before anybody else. I'm not even sure it was the same Superdrug. But anyway, there was one in Blackwood. They would have really cheap lip glosses from Constance Carroll. Maybe I had one of those. But the first one I really thought about and really, really wanted, I think would have been a Body Shop Morello Cherry lip balm or some Bath pearls.
- [40:07]
Caroline Hirons
Dewberry and White musk of the 80s.
- [40:08]
Sally Hughes
Jubury didn't exist then, but White Musk did. It would have been something from the Body Shop, probably. And then the first luxury beauty product I ever bought. I remember it like it was yesterday. I saved up all year, or certainly from the summer onwards to buy my best friends, my three best friends, a Clinique soap, you know, in the green slidey course. And they were. They were six pound forty, I think. And I saved up to get them all one of those. I was so chuffed.
- [40:42]
Caroline Hirons
It's crazy, isn't it? Where did you make. Knowing you, I think you would see it as a fun experience. But where did you make any beauty disasters? Like, I had a black crimped hairstyle. I dyed my hair black and I crimped it. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm the least emo person I know. Oh, it was goth in the day.
- [40:57]
Sally Hughes
How long have you got? I had. I had a highlighted perm. My brother told me I looked like white snake. I had. It was worse than a highlighted poem because it started off as a mullet that I tried to save by perming it and highlighting it.
- [41:14]
Caroline Hirons
I did the proper ringlet perm that your mum's neighbor. Oh God, Horrendous.
- [41:19]
Sally Hughes
That was terrible. I looked horrendous. I used to wear this Mary Quant foundation to school even though I didn't have a spot on my face. I've never had spots because I'm so dry. And I wore this thick foundation that was like orange. I think the color was called biscuit. It was all dry and matte. I wore that to school every day for ages. I had lightning bolts down my face at one point From a number 17 kit that came with a stencil that you put on your face and painted over it. Oh my God. I mean, the list is endless. I can look at a picture from even 15 years ago and I'm like, what were you thinking?
- [41:58]
Caroline Hirons
I do that from 15 years ago because I was perimenopausal. It wasn't the best time in my life. Oh, God.
- [42:04]
Sally Hughes
I just looked unbelievably bad on many occasions. I mean, even as recently as. Yeah, about 12 years ago, I went to Fashion Week and I went for a fringe trim, and they just lopped a massive chunk out of my fringe. I look at the pictures now and I look, like dumb and dumber. I was at Fashion Week interviewing Val Dahl, and backstage I looked horrendous.
- [42:25]
Caroline Hirons
You're like, why did I let them come near me with scissors?
- [42:28]
Sally Hughes
Yeah.
- [42:28]
Caroline Hirons
What are your ride or die product? Like your one, one and done. You can't say number five, buy it for life product. So let's assume number five is always here. It's more like a monument.
- [42:39]
Sally Hughes
Sure.
- [42:40]
Caroline Hirons
What have you got in terms of, you know, you're never without it?
- [42:44]
Sally Hughes
Some kind of body lotion? I. I don't think there will ever be a time in my life where I don't own a Neutrogena body lotion. Probably. I don't think I've ever not had one somewhere.
- [43:00]
Caroline Hirons
A nice rich one for your skin.
- [43:02]
Sally Hughes
A really rich body lotion. And I could not be without. I mean, I literally couldn't leave the house.
- [43:06]
Caroline Hirons
I couldn't. I don't know. People don't moisturize every day.
- [43:09]
Sally Hughes
I couldn't leave the house. And I have been in people's houses unexpectedly. And the next morning I would have to leave without a shower if there was no body lotion. I could never have a shower and not put body lotion on because I would be in pain. Like, I would be so uncomfortable.
- [43:23]
Caroline Hirons
It's too severe.
- [43:24]
Sally Hughes
Yeah.
- [43:24]
Caroline Hirons
And what about smells in terms of beauty products? Because you are a big lover of fragrance and skincare.
- [43:31]
Sally Hughes
I mean, I do love. I mean, not in everything. I need it in a cleanser.
- [43:35]
Caroline Hirons
Oh, yeah. And a moisturizer. I like that.
- [43:37]
Sally Hughes
And a moisturizer. I'm not bothered about serum.
- [43:39]
Caroline Hirons
Treatments are different. That's what we did with the skin rocks. We did. You know, you can have fragrance free or fragrance and cleanser and moisturizers, but treatments are fragrance free. Just so we can get on with the job here.
- [43:47]
Sally Hughes
This is how I feel, basically.
- [43:50]
Caroline Hirons
What's your favorite smell of a beauty product? Yes. You're going to pick a product.
- [43:55]
Sally Hughes
Oh, that's such a good question.
- [43:57]
Caroline Hirons
Because I'm in my mind. I want to tell you what my mind goes to because I don't want to influence your answer.
- [44:01]
Sally Hughes
Okay. So I love the Smell of Johnson's Baby Lotion.
- [44:04]
Caroline Hirons
Memories pink.
- [44:06]
Sally Hughes
My family friend Nana, she wasn't my grandmother, we called her Nana. She used to ice me after a bath like a cake. With Johnson's Baby Lotion, like a tubing bag. I used to lie in front of the fire and she would ice me like a cake. That smell, amazing. I also really love the very. I don't use it, but that very medicinal smell of evil on cleanser.
- [44:27]
Caroline Hirons
Yes. I love that smell.
- [44:28]
Sally Hughes
That smell.
- [44:29]
Caroline Hirons
And the rescue mask.
- [44:30]
Sally Hughes
Yeah, It's a bit like. It's a similar type of smell to Elizabeth Arden Eight Hour Cream. It's that medicinal ointmenty.
- [44:37]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
- [44:38]
Sally Hughes
Sort of smell. I love that smell. I love the smell of Nivea Creme in the blue.
- [44:43]
Caroline Hirons
Blue pot.
- [44:44]
Sally Hughes
Yeah. Love that smell. I love the smell of very cheap apple shampoo.
- [44:49]
Caroline Hirons
Conditioner, peach conditioner.
- [44:51]
Sally Hughes
You know, that very Alberto. Alberto99p really cheap synthetic apple. It's like the beauty equivalent of a foam banana sweet. You know, that really fake. That really fake smell. Love that. Do you know what, though? Generally quite cheap things. Hawaiian Tropic.
- [45:11]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, who doesn't love a bit of Hawaiian Tropical?
- [45:13]
Sally Hughes
The smell of Hawaiian Tropic. Oh, so many. Oh, the smell of Flex Revlon Flex shampoo and conditioner.
- [45:19]
Caroline Hirons
Remember the Avon S? That is sos.
- [45:21]
Sally Hughes
Avon sos. Which you can still get. My husband likes that. They tend to be quite cheap things. I tend to like, in that context, quite a synthetic aesthetic.
- [45:30]
Caroline Hirons
Because you're the opposite in fragrance.
- [45:32]
Sally Hughes
I'm the opposite.
- [45:32]
Caroline Hirons
You're like old lady handbags. As we've said before.
- [45:35]
Sally Hughes
I like. I want to smell like the interior, the suede interior of an old lady's vintage handbag. Yeah.
- [45:42]
Caroline Hirons
I remember when you first said that to me, I was like, how odd. But now that I know you, it's absolutely.
- [45:46]
Sally Hughes
It's totally consistent with my personality.
- [45:48]
Caroline Hirons
What's your current skincare routine?
- [45:50]
Sally Hughes
I look after my skin. I always have. I would do a cream cleanser in the morning. I look after my skin, but I don't do that much, if I'm honest. So I do a cream cleanser in the morning. Then the older I get, I now need an essence. So I would typically use the ren1 in autumn winter and the Shiseido one in spring summer. I need a hydrating essence of some kind. I like glycerin. My skin likes glycerin more than it likes hyaluronic, for example, kind of over hyaluronic. So then I would do an essence. Then I would do A vitamin C. Change brands all the time because I'm always testing things. I would do vitamin C. Then I do an eye cream purely because I then go to SPF and I don't want it in my eyes. That's the only reason I use an eye cream really, because I don't want SPF in my eyes. Then on to makeup. Then in the evening I would do a balm cleanse. Then I would do a cream cleanse if I'm wearing makeup, sunscreen, which I usually am. And then I would use a retinoid and that's it. You know, I'm not much of a masker. One thing I do do religiously, which is so unme. So as I mentioned, I do body cream. I'm all. I moisturize my body at least once a day.
- [47:06]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
- [47:06]
Sally Hughes
Probably twice. One thing I do do religiously that's not very me is I am devoted to my zip halo.
- [47:12]
Caroline Hirons
I know. And this is fairly new, isn't it?
- [47:14]
Sally Hughes
I have been doing this for, I feel six, six, six, seven months.
- [47:18]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
- [47:19]
Sally Hughes
I love it.
- [47:19]
Caroline Hirons
I remember when you. Because obviously when you hear something once, you think, oh, they're just doing. Then you hear it twice and three times. I'm like, this woman is really using this thing.
- [47:26]
Sally Hughes
Yeah, I use it like four times a week.
- [47:28]
Caroline Hirons
I was gonna say four times a day. I'm like, no, you literally not with.
- [47:31]
Sally Hughes
With. With caveats. So obviously, I know loads of people work with them. I do not. They have approached me about it and I have said no. And even though I love it so much, the reason I have said no is I don't buy the long term claims of any nanocurrent electrocurrent device. However, if you want to look better today, you will look better today for the whole day. I can look at pictures and I know if I've done it that day or not.
- [47:58]
Caroline Hirons
Really.
- [47:59]
Sally Hughes
Yes.
- [48:00]
Caroline Hirons
Sold.
- [48:01]
Sally Hughes
Yes, I absolutely love it. And they sent me one. I lost it. I thought I'd left it in a hotel. I bought myself another one. Then I found the original like six weeks later. So now I've got two. So I do them simultaneously.
- [48:13]
Caroline Hirons
So you can save time.
- [48:14]
Sally Hughes
Yeah.
- [48:15]
Caroline Hirons
Do you do it while you're watching telly or in the middle of your routine?
- [48:17]
Sally Hughes
So I do it before cleansing in the morning. So I do it on a dirty face.
- [48:20]
Caroline Hirons
Wow.
- [48:21]
Sally Hughes
Because I don't. Not that it's dirty, because the gel. I don't. The gel comes off anyway. So I wake up, I put the gel on, I do the zip halo, then I Get in the shower, do my skincare so I never leave the gel on. It's amazing. Amazing, but with caveats. And it's expensive. And people are always saying to me, is it worth the money? It's like I have no way of answering that question. I'm not interested in cars. I cannot believe the money people spend on cars because I find cars boring. Yeah, but if they love cars, then it's probably worth it. Exactly. So I'm not in a position to say whether it's worth the money or not, but for me, yes.
- [49:00]
Caroline Hirons
And the caveat would be you do have to use them regularly for them to work.
- [49:04]
Sally Hughes
Well, they work on the day you use them. If you think they're going to start producing collagen. I personally would say no, they won't.
- [49:10]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. Okay. So we'll finishing around beauty, bearing in mind all the things you've said, how much you love your bathroom cabinets on fire, your kids are safe, everything's safe. It's a completely superficial question. The bathroom cabinet is pretending to be on fire. What are you rescuing? What are you going to think? I cannot be without this.
- [49:28]
Sally Hughes
I would take my perfume collection because it's the hardest to replace.
- [49:32]
Caroline Hirons
How many are in there? Tell the truth, Sally Hughes.
- [49:36]
Sally Hughes
250 bottles.
- [49:39]
Caroline Hirons
Where are they all?
- [49:40]
Sally Hughes
I've got a dedicated cupboard for them. So we're in the bathroom. Okay, we're in the bathroom. I don't keep them in the bathroom because that's not good. Too hot.
- [49:47]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
- [49:47]
Sally Hughes
Okay, we're in the bathroom.
- [49:48]
Caroline Hirons
But I will let you have your fragrance collection. I would never take that away from you.
- [49:51]
Sally Hughes
Okay. Okay, we're in the bathroom. What am I grabbing? What's the most important thing? I, I literally can't get to the end of the street without a body moisturizer.
- [49:58]
Caroline Hirons
Fair. I'm the same. If I just. It's second nature. I would put that on before I think of eating.
- [50:04]
Sally Hughes
I, I cannot go anywhere for any length of time without a body moisturizer. I would be like, I feel tight in my body.
- [50:12]
Caroline Hirons
Like, what's your favorite luxe one?
- [50:15]
Sally Hughes
Ah, that's a great question. Because typically if you're very dry skinned, the posher, you go the crapper. They are, they're too rich.
- [50:21]
Caroline Hirons
They don't absorb nicely.
- [50:22]
Sally Hughes
They don't touch the sides. However, unbelievably, I really like the Charlotte Tilbury one, the her body cream. It's very good. I'm not typically one for Charlotte Tilbury skincare, but I like the body cream. I really love the Fenty body cream.
- [50:38]
Caroline Hirons
That's a nice body cream.
- [50:40]
Sally Hughes
It's beautiful.
- [50:41]
Caroline Hirons
I love Caveat. Didn't have to purchase it. It was sent to me and I was very, very grateful. But the La Mer body cream.
- [50:48]
Sally Hughes
Oh, it's stunning.
- [50:49]
Caroline Hirons
In the tub.
- [50:49]
Sally Hughes
It's stunning, yeah.
- [50:51]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, I would use the word sexual.
- [50:52]
Sally Hughes
Yeah. I mean, I love them.
- [50:54]
Caroline Hirons
Absolutely. Do not buy it if you have to credit card it. Do not.
- [50:56]
Sally Hughes
I love Lemaire. I'm here for the lardy buttery.
- [50:59]
Caroline Hirons
Buttery.
- [51:00]
Sally Hughes
Yeah.
- [51:00]
Caroline Hirons
When it came out, I wasn't, but I was on a counter next to it. And I think I carried some of that angst with me of just having to serve it and not make any money.
- [51:06]
Sally Hughes
Lancome does a beautiful luxe body cream as well. Lancome, like your old French houses. I love that.
- [51:14]
Caroline Hirons
My mum's favorite hand cream. Every time I smell that, I am an instantly smelling my mom.
- [51:19]
Sally Hughes
Back in the day when I was doing makeup, used to get Nutrix and you would squeeze some on the kind of quinelle of your. Of your hand, and you would rub your hands together and you would press them onto your cheekbones. Used to get the best gleam from it. I was gutted when they just such a beautiful, beautiful product. But, yeah, I like if I'm gonna do posh body cream, which is rare, to be honest, I'm mainly a cheap, cheap dove kind of gal, Neutrogena sort of girl. But if I'm gonna go posh, I want a very kind of lardy smell.
- [51:54]
Caroline Hirons
Nice, smelly lard.
- [51:55]
Sally Hughes
Delicious smell. So for a night out, I would have a really beautifully fragrant lardy cream before I went.
- [52:00]
Caroline Hirons
And you do it all over or do you just do arms and body? I do arms and body and then the legs is always cheap.
- [52:04]
Sally Hughes
Oh, bum, boobs, everything.
- [52:06]
Caroline Hirons
Wow.
- [52:07]
Sally Hughes
Oh, yeah. Back.
- [52:08]
Caroline Hirons
How'd you get it on your back?
- [52:10]
Sally Hughes
So I'm just really good at this. I've been doing this for so long. I do. I wrap my arms around me to do where my bra straps should be. I reach up to about just above my bra, then I reach down. But if my husband's there, I just get him to do it and I can carry on watching the day. Everything. Everything. I would probably do limbs twice.
- [52:27]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
- [52:28]
Sally Hughes
And everything else once.
- [52:29]
Caroline Hirons
That's a big routine.
- [52:31]
Sally Hughes
It is, isn't it? It takes longer to do that than with skincare. I'm quite quick with my skincare. The thing about skincare that I do think is really, really important, that people kind of. Because they're Always being sold masks and treatments and things. I just always say to people, you will get a far better result by doing less often than by blitzing things like doing a mask. If you enjoy doing a mask, have a lovely time with it, great, go for it. If that gives you a nice moment for yourself, lovely. But in terms of your skin, it will be happier if you do a little bit of that ingredient every day.
- [53:07]
Caroline Hirons
Rather than just trying to fix everything at the weekend with one big.
- [53:10]
Sally Hughes
And the same goes for product. It's not about how much you spend on product is are you going to use it twice a day, are you going to use it? And if you. If you keep on top of things, you will see results.
- [53:22]
Caroline Hirons
Thank you. So the team are making me do this. I don't want to sound like a wanker, but do you have a burning question for me?
- [53:28]
Sally Hughes
I am giving you. So what does it have to be beauty related? No, this is a question I ask people in interviews quite often that are not beauty related. Okay. You are going into a news agent.
- [53:40]
Caroline Hirons
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [53:41]
Sally Hughes
Or a petrol station, your choice. And I'm giving you £5. You're not buying petrol?
- [53:49]
Caroline Hirons
No.
- [53:50]
Sally Hughes
So what are you spending your five pounds?
- [53:51]
Caroline Hirons
Magazines.
- [53:53]
Sally Hughes
Okay, so which magazine?
- [53:54]
Caroline Hirons
I'll buy all of them. I would do. I'd look at hello first to see if there's a big fancy wedding or a new baby. Lovely. I would. Brazier. Grazia. Hello. I mean, I subscribe to all of them but I get locked them through the post. But in a petrol station, I look at the ones where I'm not always a subscriber.
- [54:13]
Sally Hughes
Yes, yes.
- [54:13]
Caroline Hirons
So I'm like, I'm not always. But Grazia, like more of the weeklies. I don't need to buy the newspaper because I subscribe. But I'm a magazine's Fat Coke.
- [54:25]
Sally Hughes
Fat Coke? Yes. You love a fat Coke, don't you?
- [54:28]
Caroline Hirons
Not all the day. Not every day. Crisps, Chocolate ready Salted Walkers. I like a McCoys but they've destroyed them. I opened a packet today and they've made the packet this big and there's four crisps and I was massively offended.
- [54:42]
Sally Hughes
Have you seen how small Monster Munch are these days?
- [54:44]
Caroline Hirons
It's ridiculous. When you're an 80s, crisp girl is offensive. I would probably do a Tyrell's Ridged ready Salted Forest.
- [54:53]
Sally Hughes
I don't hold with posh crisps generally.
- [54:55]
Caroline Hirons
Oh, they're always on like 2 for £2. I'll get the cheap ones.
- [54:58]
Sally Hughes
Okay.
- [54:58]
Caroline Hirons
Get them on board. But yeah, magazines. Magazines, that's potentially the best question I've ever been asked in my life.
- [55:05]
Sally Hughes
Thank you.
- [55:05]
Caroline Hirons
Thank you, Sally Hughes.
- [55:07]
Sally Hughes
Thank you for having me.
- [55:09]
Caroline Hirons
You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday in our Listeners Questions episode, so make sure you tune in. Send your questions for me and my guests to answer to podarolinehirans.com until then, I'm glad we had this chat. New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday. Follow us subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Glad we had this chat is produced by Wall to Wall Media.
- [55:40]
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