S2 Ep15: Charlene White

Summary

Podcast Title: Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons
Episode: Season 2, Episode 15: Charlene White
Release Date: December 30, 2024
Host: Caroline Hirons
Guest: Charlene White

---

1. Introduction of Guest: Charlene White [02:43]

Caroline Hirons welcomes Charlene White, a distinguished figure in British journalism with over two decades of experience. Described as one of the most widely recognized faces on ITV News and a panelist on the popular show Loose Women, Charlene discusses her latest book, There’s No Place Like Home.

Charlene White:
"Thanks for having me. Caroline, I'm really excited. You're a legend to me."
[02:43]

2. Charlene’s Background and Career in Journalism [12:16 - 17:22]

Charlene delves into her motivation for entering journalism, driven by a desire to tell people's stories and be a voice for the silenced. She shares personal experiences, including visiting her uncle in Brixton prisons at a young age, which fueled her passion for justice and storytelling.

Charlene White:
"I wanted to be a sort of voice for those who tend to be silenced and those who don't really have a voice."
[12:32]

She recounts her initial steps into journalism, sending out 50 letters for work experience and eventually securing a position at The Guardian, which she views as a pivotal moment in her career.

Charlene White:
"But you've been in the industry for how long now? Over 20."
[15:23]

3. Experiences with Racism and Diversity in the UK [05:54 - 19:53]

Charlene discusses her upbringing in a Jamaican household in South London, highlighting the cultural duality she experienced. She reflects on the challenges her family faced, including racism and hostility from neighbors, which gradually transformed as her parents built relationships within the community.

Charlene White:
"I think if there were more people raised in the kinds of environments I was raised in in southeast London, how different the country would see other cultures."
[09:28]

She emphasizes the importance of diverse environments in reducing racism and fostering understanding, contrasting her experiences in multicultural South London with the less diverse countryside, where she encountered overt racism.

Charlene White:
"But, you know, you also need that diversity within the teams, within the makeup teams."
[54:59]

4. Working on Loose Women [21:26 - 50:50]

Charlene shares her journey to joining Loose Women, emphasizing her determination and the supportive environment of the show. She praises her co-hosts, particularly Denise, for their honesty and camaraderie, detailing humorous and heartfelt interactions that enhance the show's dynamic.

Charlene White:
"And I think we're sort of at an era where it's nice for... I think we're sort of at an era where it's nice for us being here to be authentic."
[28:06]

She recounts memorable moments, including interactions with celebrities like Jason Donovan and Hugh Jackman, illustrating the blend of professionalism and personal connection that defines Loose Women.

Charlene White:
"They never know what question's going to come. And I never know what story they're going to tell."
[38:07]

5. Beauty and Skincare Insights [44:15 - 61:58]

Transitioning to skincare, Charlene discusses her personal skincare routines and challenges. She reveals recent changes due to an allergic reaction, emphasizing the importance of adapting skincare practices to individual needs.

Charlene White:
"I've had to completely change all the brands that I use. Haven't been to Dermatologist."
[45:28]

Caroline and Charlene explore favorite products, beauty disasters, and essential skincare tips. Charlene highlights the significance of micellar water in her regimen and shares insights on combating dark circles, advocating for hydration and appropriate eye creams.

Charlene White:
"Micellar water for me and it's the cerave one that I use, takes off the remnants so that my skin is squeaky clean."
[56:27]

6. Personal Stories and Anecdotes [51:12 - 65:15]

Throughout the episode, Charlene shares personal anecdotes that reveal her personality and the supportive relationships within Loose Women. From humorous tales about makeup mishaps to heartfelt stories about her family, she provides listeners with an intimate glimpse into her life.

Charlene White:
"I remember how Trev used to glide down the hallway... it's a big star, fair play."
[26:22]

She illustrates the camaraderie and genuine connections with her co-hosts, highlighting moments of levity and mutual support that make the show engaging and relatable.

7. Listener Q&A [62:11 - End]

In the concluding segment, Charlene addresses listener questions, focusing on skincare concerns such as dark circles under the eyes. She offers practical advice, emphasizing hydration, effective concealers, and the use of light-reflective eye creams to mitigate the appearance of dark circles.

Charlene White:
"Ultimately, though, you are predisposed. You're going to be more... So a good concealer and keep it hydrated with a lovely eye cream."
[63:36]

Caroline and Charlene engage in light-hearted banter, reinforcing their authentic and approachable dynamic. Charlene also shares her favorite fragrances and discusses the practicality of maintaining a makeup-free routine, reflecting her commitment to simplicity and effectiveness in skincare.

Charlene White:
"I do Le Labo, but I forget to spray it on and is."
[60:54]

8. Conclusion [65:15 - End]

Caroline wraps up the episode by thanking Charlene for her insightful contributions and encouraging listeners to tune in to future episodes for more engaging conversations. The episode closes with a tease for the next week's listener questions segment.

Charlene White:
"Thank you so much for coming on."
[65:35]

Caroline Hirons:
"Thank you for having me."
[65:35]

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Charlene White on Diversity:

  "I think if there were more people raised in the kinds of environments I was raised in in southeast London, how different the country would see other cultures."
  [09:28]

• Charlene White on Loose Women:

  "They never know what question's going to come. And I never know what story they're going to tell."
  [38:07]

• Charlene White on Skincare:

  "Micellar water for me and it's the cerave one that I use, takes off the remnants so that my skin is squeaky clean."
  [56:27]

• Charlene White on Listener Q&A:

  "Ultimately, though, you are predisposed. You're going to be more... So a good concealer and keep it hydrated with a lovely eye cream."
  [63:36]

---

Key Takeaways:

• Charlene White’s Passion: Her drive to tell underrepresented stories and advocate for marginalized voices stems from personal family experiences with injustice.

• Experiences with Racism: Charlene shares poignant stories of facing racism in less diverse communities, emphasizing the need for greater cultural understanding and diversity.

• Dual Roles in Media: Balancing her role on Loose Women with her journalism career, Charlene illustrates the importance of authenticity and versatility in media roles.

• Skincare Insights: Personal anecdotes about skincare routines highlight the importance of tailored skincare practices and the challenges of maintaining healthy skin amidst professional demands.

• Community and Camaraderie: The supportive and humorous relationships among Loose Women hosts create a dynamic and engaging environment, fostering both personal and professional growth.

This episode offers a deep dive into Charlene White's multifaceted career, her advocacy for diversity, and her practical beauty and skincare advice, all delivered with warmth and authenticity by both Charlene and Caroline Hirons.

Transcript

[Caroline Hirons]

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[Charlene White]

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Thanks for having me. Caroline, I'm really excited. You're a legend to me. And I walked in and I was like, oh, it's a legend. But I genuinely believed that because I followed you online for years.

I couldn't believe it when I first found out you were following me, because I went to follow you and you were following me.

Oh, for years.

And I was like, she already followed me. When it says follow back, you're like, oh, my God.

I've been following you since. Since when? You were just doing, you know, the very simple videos and stuff and the advice and all of that.

Today, with the eyelashes.

Way back in the day with my eyelashes. And I see you grow to become an author and then just like a business owner and a legend. I just think you're. You're brilliant.

Oh, thank you.

Now I'm quite nervous. Sat here with you to be done.

Don't be ridiculous. Don't be daft. I think I started following you before jungle.

Yes, before jungle. I remember that because I went and went. Caroline Hirons is following me because I.

Was going, Charlie, when you were in the jungle, I was like, I can tell him. Thanks for you come straight from work.

I have. I've got Loose Women makeup on.

That's okay. Olivia had Loose Women makeup on. Denise had Loose Women makeup. Everyone comes in immaculately made up and I'm like, I'll just go and brush my hair. I know, it's like itv. They're like. They give you a full.

Yeah, full TV look, full T, but it's very glam. But I did change out of my loose one outfit because I thought I looked like a bit of an idiot if I sat here in a full make of my face of makeup and my tele wear. So I've just put a little jumper for you.

You have a new book?

I do. It's called no Place Like Home.

I mean, immediate wizard of Oz. What's it about? I mean, I know. I'd like you to.

Yeah, I'll explain it. It's about what home means to different people. So the first couple of chapters is talking about my parents and grandparents who are part of the Windrush generation, and how they built a home here in an environment where a lot of outside forces were sort of reiterating that they don't belong here, they shouldn't be here, they should go back home. And the. And about what sort of home My parents built for me as immigrants and having children born here. But in the next few chapters is talking to other people. So I talked to a guy who grew up in care here and lived in of the most notorious children's homes in Halifax. A family who fled Ukraine, who actually their son is at school with my son. They're in the same class about what they packed in the car when they decided to drive away from Ukraine 48 hours after the first bomb started dropping. I just sort of. I'm really fascinated by where everybody sees homes. It's not always the obvious place, it's not always the place where they live at the moment. And food threaded through the book quite a bit. So people always talk about like the meals their parents used to make or their grandparents used to make and that feeling of opening the door of the parents house and then mum cooking like Sunday dinner or something and then how much that just makes them just relax because it's really sensory food and smell, isn't it? And I talked to some guys who served in the army and a helicopter pilot as well, he's in the raf and they sort of talk about what home means to them when through the course of their job they may not return home to their families and stuff. But it's such a celebration of what's in our hearts and what is it for you?

So for me about you, what's your sense of home?

Well, I. I grew up in what I would call a Jamaican household in London. So therefore my heart is in two different places. It's both here and it's in Jamaica and there's a lot of London and I'm. Yeah, I'm in South London and there's a lot of, I guess quintessentially British life which I didn't really learn and understand until I was in my 20s.

Yeah.

So I didn't have a full proper English Sunday lunch. We don't call it Sunday lunch in Jamaica, we call it Sunday dinner. I had, I didn't have one till I was in my early 20s so I didn't know what that involved. And I remember going to my friend's house, it was her birthday and her mum had brought out all this food because she'd been cooking and there were loads of us there and she'd been cooking all morning, laid out the table and then sat down and I remember turning to my friend and going, oh, why has your mum sat down? Because she's forgotten the rice. And then she was like, no she hasn't. No, she definitely has forgotten. The rice. And that was the point of which. And I was like 20, 21. And I. That was the first time I realized that an English Sunday lunch doesn't involve rice. Because a Jamaican Sunday dinner involves rice and peas, coleslaw, macaroni, cheese, loads of meats, fish, everything. And it was really bizarre to me that everybody was eating this meal that just had Yorkshire puddings and potatoes. It felt like an incomplete meal for me. So when I think of home and my mum's cooking, it's never an English roast, it's a Jamaican roast. So I always. Part of my heart will always be in Jamaica because it's the land of where my parents were born, when my ancestors were raised. So. And, you know, part of me will. Will always be Jamaican.

Was your upbringing, do you think it was better because you're in South London and it's just known for being slightly more acclimatized to having a demographic that isn't just white English people. Yeah, you know, I mean, I would hope that South London. Because I know West London. I mean, in. In my borough, in West London, I am. I'm in the minority.

Yeah.

Which is fantastic, you know, but you would hope it was slightly more welcoming than maybe other parts were.

Well, yeah. I mean, you know, South London is at that point had the. One of the highest concentrations of Caribbean immigran difference. Because people tend to move to where they have other family or friends, for example. And so it was. I tasted Turkish burek before I ever had an English Sunday lunch. Because I was brought up around so many different cultures, which is beautiful for me because I learn way more from them about the world than I did at school, to be perfectly honest. And that was really important for my parents. I mean, it wasn't always like that for them when they first moved there, all like it for me, when, you know, we first moved to the house that I grew up in. You know, I remember the family across the road. The husband absolutely detested the fact that we lived there. Cause he couldn't believe that a black family could afford a house on his road. And so was incredibly rude and offensive to my parents. And then was interesting when he died. Turns out his wife was really lovely. And in her older years, my parents used to help her a lot. My dad would do her garden, would help her with her shopping. We do all of that stuff. And then she learned then a lot about different cultures through us having, you know, lost this man. That was just awfully racist. But, you know, I always think if there were more people raised in the kinds of environments I was raised in in southeast London, how different the country would see other cultures.

And that's the sadness.

Yeah.

And I don't mean it to sort of annoy people who live in other parts of the uk. No, it's generally most big cities now. There's a real mix of people. It's more the sort of the smaller towns out in the country and that kind of.

Yeah. And I just think that there is still. There is still that fear in some parts and. And hostility. And I've worked in the countryside. You know, I used to be based in. In Norwich, so I used to travel out into Norfolk and Suffolk, miles away. How'd you end up in Norwich so far away?

Amsterdam, for Christ's sake.

I know when you're from south London. When they. When the BBC sort of suggested it, I was like, babes, I don't even know where that is on a map. And Lich Hip was sat there and going, had to look at a map to figure out where those places were over here. Oh, it's like. It's a bit like the bum part.

Yes.

That bit over the uk. That bit.

Norwich, the bum of the uk.

Oh, now I'm gonna get into so much fun.

You won't, because the Chapman sister, Samuel Nick Chapman from Norwich. It's all good. It's all good. They'll get it. It's fine.

And there was so not used to the countryside. I didn't even own wellies when I first went to work.

Wellies are overrated, I gotta say.

Well, when you're on a pig farm, turns out you do you actually need them.

Fair enough.

Fair enough. And I remember doing a story on a pig farm, and I turned up to do the story and the camera just looked at me and he was like, are you serious? I was like, they told me to come in flat shoes. Yes, but they're gold ballet pumps, Charlene. I was like, well, they're the only flat shoes I own. And after we did the story and I ruined my shoes, he drove me straight to home base and forced me to buy wellies. And it changed my life. But, you know, being out in the countryside, you learn a lot about what it's like when a community isn't used to seeing somebody of darker skin. And I remember going to one story and he was a really lovely guy who just bumped into me as I was trying to find, I think, the house. We were doing the interview and he was like, oh, there's another one of you in the village. Do you know, blah, blah, blah. And I said, yeah, she's. She's a black one. Like, you do you know her? And I'm like, no, I'm ever so sorry.

Quite the same thing. But when we used to go to the States, we used to go to the South. My mum was born in Mississippi. And we used to go back and we would be in a supermarket. People would hear us speak and they'd say, where are you from? And Mum would sort of go, you don't want to talk. You don't want to sort of say the exact town because they won't get it. So she was old Liverpool, it was near Liverpool. And they go, do y'all know the Beatles? And we were actually asked if we had cows in England in one of those. Wow, y'all have cows in England. Wow, you're on your. Like, what has happened? Have I been Transported into, like, 1856? What is happening? So before we jump to that, how did your career in journalism start? And did you face the same hostility that your family sort of had on occasion when you went in? How did you get into journalism?

Well, I just wanted to tell people stories.

You got a very good story voice.

Oh, thank you.

We done CBB's yet?

No, but I really want to do the bedtime.

You need to do bedtime stories.

Then my kids would actually care that I'm on tv, where they. They don't.

Currently, kids don't care about our problems at all.

They really don't. At all. I just wanted to tell people's stories and I wanted to be a sort of voice for those who tend to be silenced and those who don't really have a voice, and they tend to be the less moneyed in society. And my uncle, when I was about eight, was jailed for something that he didn't do, and I spent a lot of time visiting him in Brixton prisons. So prisons, for instance, don't scare me in any way. We went. We would go to visit him quite a lot. And I knew, and I knew even at that age that if he'd had the money for a better lawyer, he probably wouldn't have been there.

And a paler skin color.

Exactly. That he probably wouldn't be there. So that sort of need for something different and to make a difference and to fight for people that at that point, society didn't really care about. I wanted. That's what I wanted to do with my life. And my older cousin went into law. So I said, okay, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm Gonna go into law. I loved LA Law. My mum absolutely loved LA Law.

Harry Hemline.

So that show. Honestly, Honestly.

So I was like, gesture pearls.

Just brilliant. So I decided, this is how I'm gonna make my mark and this is how I'm gonna change the world. And then went on work experience in Croydon Crown Court and fell asleep. It was so unbelievably boring. And nothing like it is on the telly.

No.

So then I sort of how I was going to make my mark in the world. And my dad actually taught me to read, reading the headlines in the front of the Guardian newspaper. And Sir Trevor was in our living room every single night. So I just thought, yeah, I can call him Sir Trev because he's mate.

Sir Trev.

Sir Trev.

Sir Trev.

And I love that name. I just want to. We love partaking in red wine. Sir Trev.

And I just drop that name for me. Do you want to pick up that bucket to help pick that name you just dropped?

That'll be too heavy for. So I just thought, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be what he's doing. Yeah. I'm going to be a journalist and that's how I'm going to tell the stories of various people that others like to ignore. And that's the reason behind it.

But how did you start? Did you go to uni? Did you.

Yeah, I went to uni. I sent letters.

Yeah.

So I sent 50 letters out for work experience. I really, really wanted Sugar magazine because it was really cool. And then I got the Guardian and I was really upset. I remember opening up the letter and it's like, oh, hi, Charlene, thanks for writing, blah, blah, blah. We'd like to offer you two weeks of work experience. I was literally like, oh, for goodness sake, I'm just gonna wait for the Sugar magazine one. And it never arrived. But actually, obviously it changed.

Didn't turn out too bad.

Exactly.

It didn't turn out too bad. But you've been in the industry for how long now? Over 20.

20. Almost 25 years now.

How's it changed? Because you're still only one of the few.

Yeah.

Black faces.

Yeah, Yeah, I am.

Laura Stewart as it.

Yeah. And Moira and Satrev.

Yeah.

In terms of doing. Sorry, I can't help myself. It sounds like really ridiculous.

I'm like 6 degrees separation and there.

Are so many wonderful names. You know, we've got Colin Myre at the BBC. I've got Jillian Joseph on Sky. There are so many of us now who. Who are hugely impactful in what we do. And yet it's taken a while to reach that point. And you know, there are parts. And yet it's taken a while to reach that point. And, you know, there are parts of society, the audience, that aren't always accepting of that. You can see that when we do, say, an all black episode of least women, which we do as and when our schedules allow, and we know we will always get a. Will get a pushback on it online.

Unbelievable.

You know, sometimes it can be. Sometimes it can.

But you don't get pushback when it's all white people.

No. What's amazing is that as the years have gone on, the volume is decreasing.

Yeah.

Because actually, people are used to us being there. People are becoming less offended by us being there. And also they've gotten to know us. And I think that makes a massive difference as well. And what I see you as, people.

They don't just see the color of your skin.

Exactly. And I think the hope for all of us is that, you know, the next generation that's coming through don't have to deal with that anymore. That people understand that, weirdly, you can be black, have boobs, be a woman.

Shocking.

Shocking. And be intelligent and good at your job and funny. The amount of times that all of us have heard, oh, you're just a token higher. And it's like, I don't care if I'm just a token hire because I'm actually incredibly good at my job. So there you are.

It's just astounding to me that that comes out of people's mouths, especially in 2024. It's sort of like really, really old white people. You would be like, okay, fair enough. You're nearly dead. Right, I get it. You're nearly dead. You're not going to change. There's no point. You're a coffin. Coffin dodger. Is. Someone in our office called me the other.

Wow.

They're a bit of a coffin dodge. I was like, well, how would you think they were about your age? I'm sorry.

Wow. Okay.

Cora.

Did they get fired?

No, I just remind her of it every day.

Okay, okay.

And I'll sign up like coffin dodger, you know, but when it's someone who's younger and has zero excuse. Well, you. I find it hard and it's not happening to me. I get the. I get the pushback of being female and gobby, but I'm female and gobby and white. Much easier ride for me.

Yeah. I just think that we always have to remember, you know, the sorts of virus and homes that people are raised in. The first time that I experience any racism was severed and I was at school and from other seven year olds.

Yeah.

And you know, it's copying what they've had at home. Exactly. So if someone is talking in an openly racist way within the household, a child grows up believing that that sort of thing is acceptable. You know, they may learn later on in life that it's not. But also if you've been indoctrinated into that way of thinking, you do feel as if there is no other way. And that immigrants are coming here and taking their jobs and that immigrants are making the economy bad. Immigrants are causing us to be in a cost of living crisis that all ill to the world are caused by these brown people that still keep coming into the country. If that's what you are being taught, then it's being brainwashed, isn't it? You do believe that they are, they are causing you to have unemployment. They are causing your family to break apart for whatever reason. But it's also about people understanding that there's a reason why immigrants tend to be blamed because they tend to be some of the weakest in society who aren't able to talk up for themselves. And so I think maybe we are seeing a sea change of people understanding that. More understanding why there are certain sectors of society that do keep blaming immigrants for all ills, when actually, as we know in the figures, there are jobs in this country that are very difficult to fill because immigrants tend to fill those jobs. And as a result, there is certain industries that are really struggling.

Yeah. And the ignorance around it is still.

It's prevalent, still very prevalent.

Shocking. There are a few things in life that just keep on giving for 3.99amonth. A floppy fuel station sarnie, one small cup of bougie. Overpriced coffee? I don't think so. Or for the same price, you could be getting a month's worth of skincare insights and know how from yours truly. A wealth of fre expertly written articles on all things skincare and beauty. From our free to download version for essential educational content to our elevated premium experience, the Skin Rocks app will revolutionize how you shop and learn about skincare. Whether you're a novice building your first routine, an aficionado wanting deep scientific expertise, or someone looking for the inside scoop on beauty newness, it's all in one pocket. Friendly place on the Skinmox app with simple to use functions that let you filter for your personal profile, save your favorite content and explore a vast product library with ease. It's no wonder it's called the Google of Skincare. Unlock a world of incredible premium content for just 3.99amonth, $34.99 a year. Or get a special discount via the podcast with code CHPOD to get £10 off your annual subscription. How did Loose Women come about? Because if I don't. If I get you on the show and I don't talk about Loose Women.

They'Ll kick off and you're doing it a disservice.

Yes.

Because I felt like it.

Really?

That's sort of.

How did you say, I want to do this? Or they approach you and my.

My entire career has sort of been me sort of sat there going, what do I want to do? I want to do this and I'll figure out a way to do it. And I have wanted to do Loose Women for a while, and so I've been pushing it for a while. And that pushing finally came off four years ago where I was invited in for a meeting. We had a bit of a chat, and they liked, you know, what I had to say. And I just think it's one of the most incredible shows I've ever worked on. The news is always in my heart. I'm a geek for news. I adore it. I love facts. But Loose is just for me, a different vehicle to share those facts. And you'll know what it's like. It's women discussing, as we did on the show today, for example, politics to pasties, to, you know, to how to deal with stress, how to deal with chronic stress, all of that stuff, which is real life. Exactly. And we can do all of those things. And yet there's always those that don't necessarily take it seriously because it's women that are talking about. It's women's things.

Yes.

You know, we're in 2024 and people still think about it in that way. Oh, is it that show where the women rant about stuff? What, you mean like serious health issues, serious mental health issues, political change legislation? That one, you mean? Yeah, but we love what we do and we know that we have an impact with the campaigns that we do. And every single one of those women I sit on that desk with is different, is impactful, have beautiful souls and whom I learn something from every single day. Because we cross the. I know. Ages. It's across this generation, multigenerational. We come from different parts of the uk, we have different life experiences and I don't know, it's. I've learned a lot and I think I probably learned a lot about myself by being on the show as well.

What's been your most memorable guest?

Oh, goodness.

From a memorable point of, like, heartstrings, maybe, or also, like, like, you know.

Do you know what? It wasn't that long ago we had Jason Donovan in, and I'd not met Jason Donovan before, and I'm of the Kylie and Jason era, so I was getting, like, really excited about seeing Jason Donovan, and then you expect him to be, like, this, like, huge superstar and that is just going to take your heart away. And it was kind of normal. And I can't work out if I was really disappointed by that or really happy.

Maybe both.

Maybe a little bit of both. I kind of expected him to come in. In, like, heartthrob mode.

Yeah.

Not. I know what heartthrob mode is. And I thought, oh, my gosh, am I going to, like, swoon or something? And then he was just like, this regular guy who gave me some amazing hugs. He's a great dad and he's just really normal.

When I did used to do the Brits backstage, we do sort of skincare backstage for a few years in a row. And one of the years I did it was when Hugh Jackman opened with a Greatest Showman.

Oh.

And it was all very like, Hugh Jackman is seen as, like, a different level.

Yeah.

It's very odd. Odd in that because it was the Brit Awards. It wasn't like stage awards, you know, it wasn't like the Tonys.

So he's a Hollywood star. Yeah.

It was always notes, like, Hugh was getting a lift in, obviously, a golf buggy from X to Z and all this sort of stuff. They didn't say it, but it was almost like, don't make eye contact, that type of thing. But talking about the presence, I walked down the hallway, I was going somewhere. Not totally not interested in Hugh Jackman. I'm sure he's lovely, but it doesn't make me go, oh, Chapman, that'd be Colin Farrell.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Come on.

He wants. He wants. Chatting up my sister.

I wonder. I thought you're gonna say he wants. And I was like, he wants what? What does he want? What does he want? Colin? He chatted up your sister in a.

Club one night years ago, and my sister, because she's younger than me, wasn't that sure of who he was. And then. And then I think, did he take her number or one or the other? Anyway, sweet Years and years ago. And then she came. There was this guy. I think he's this Irish guy. What was his name? Colin something. I'm sorry. Colin Farrell. Yeah, that's it. She was so underwhelmed and I. I.

Was like, oh, my God, I'm gonna have words with her.

Yeah, I think you should.

But I was walking down the hallway and I could sit. I'm very tall, and Hugh Jackman was coming towards me with his posse of people. And he had the greatest showman, big red jacket on. And that was a presence. Hugh Jackman and Adele had the presence. When they were walking down the hallway, you felt like, oh, it's a big star. For me, it was like, oh, okay, you're a big star. Fair play. Because he kind of glided, like. Yeah. When you see like presidential or prime ministerial and they've got like, they're just being glided. He glided down the hallway and I saw. I have that moment. I go full northern. I'm gonna make eye contact with you. I don't. I don't. You know, And I know who you are. You know, you're like, oh, it's them. Don't make eye contact. Don't let them know that we know who they are. Right. So I just carried on. But he sort of made eye contact and sort of gave me a. Almost like an acknowledgment that was alive.

Okay.

You know, nice. Almost like a. But he was absolutely huge wide. I just have this vision of him being tall and wide and I mean, maybe that. Maybe they had him in stacked heels, I don't know. But he was enormous. But Adele. The same. Not enormous, but the presence. The presence of Adele gliding down the hallway.

That's what I mean. I think that's what I was looking for.

Jason Donald ain't gonna glide down the hallway into Loose Women love.

But I was really hopeful, though. Like 8 year old me or 11 year old me was like, I just wanted him to glide. That's what I was looking for.

When you joined Loose, were you. Because you mentioned in the past that you were. Do you have a real concern that it would make the news people see you as less serious, or was that.

The goal I had? No, I had no issues with that.

What was it?

Because I knew that I was able to do both because I understood the program. I've been watching it for long enough and I knew that it's not sort of, you know, fluffy and cute and what have you that they cover. And I started during COVID Yeah. So at that point, you've got all these millions of people at home who need to understand the facts, what's going on and, you know, understand the truth from what is falsehoods. So I knew that I was more than capable of doing that, but also have a personality where I can also take part in the fun stuff. So I had no issue with that whatsoever. Yeah, he has sort of had a few other handful of other people that were a bit like, well, you do that show and you've ruined your news career. I was like, I haven't. And what you have.

I was like, no, but I haven't.

But I haven't. Because I think, you know, people can be really sniffy about news and, you know, if you don't sort of talk and receive pronunciation, if you're not. Not a, you know, big mom, lots of rabbit hustle, what have you, that you can't possibly do news. Whereas people that consume the news that we do consume ITV news, they consume Loose Women, you know, Real Housewives. Our viewers are more than one thing.

Yeah.

So why can't we as newscasters also be more than one thing? It doesn't stop the information and the intelligence that we have or our ability to break down what can be really complicated news stories. That doesn't stop because I also like doing other things. And I think we're sort of at an era where it's nice for. And I believe that it also can improve trust because I'm not pretending to be something else. I'm being me. And me also enjoys doing. Having a laugh with the women on Loose Women in the same way that I can get across really serious bits of information that an audience needs to know about. So I never had any qualms about that. And I know that an audience is intelligent enough to know that I can host a program, a daytime program, and also do the news. News is the thing that I love and adore. And I think if more people had an understanding of what happens in the world and yes, in current affairs, foreign affairs, you know, international relations, if people had a clearer understanding, they would understand their own living situations a bit better. Understand where we sit within the world, who we need to rely on in the world and all of that stuff, rather than being very protectionist and being like, we're on this little island and we don't think. We just. Yeah. And we are still this great presence in the world without understanding that our greatness came from the idea of it, from us being an empire. And we stopped being that a really long time ago.

Really long time.

We can't survive on our own because we don't have enough people on our wonderful little line and to be able to do that. So it's like people just need to sort of understand the world a little.

Bit more and it helps them to do that when you're, when your face is on because they are used to you. You're not the sort of. Because. Sir Trevor McDonald. So Trev. Sorry, he is. I remember when he first started doing the odd thing that was funny and it was really shocking because it was like Sir Trevor McDonald. Because you're just used to. Welcome to News at 10. Yeah, I'm Trevor McDonald. He did become a sir for the younger people. But I think when he did start to do sketches, like I remember when. Who was, who did the. Angela Rippon. When she used to do. Like some people who read the news would then go and do sketch shows. It was almost like humanizing them.

Yeah.

Because you do have to have that air of not even professionalism. It's almost, it's almost robotic when you're doing the news, isn't it?

Yeah.

What's the, what's the hardest news story you've had to break or what left you the most affected?

What, let's see. Ukraine left me really quite affected. During the start of the war. We were doing a lot of news specials over weekends as well and they'd be sort of three, four hour programs. And I know, I think a lot of how I feel about the news and how I feel connected to the news changed after I had children.

Yeah.

So, you know, the cold heart facade that you almost have to have when you do news, you don't get affected by stuff. You then have children and you connect everything to other people's children. And I remember, oh, I can't remember it was the second or the third week when I was doing the Saturday and we had a reporter that was at the train station as loads of families are trying to get on trains out. What was it at Lviv? I think maybe. And you just see all these parents who, with kids who can't get on the trains, who are desperate to get their kids to safety. And that really did impact me because I feel. And we also see things more because of technology now, our access to news as it's happening. We have more access now than we did perhaps, you know, when I was working during the first Iraq war or Afghanistan, for example. We see things in a, in real time way that we never have before. And that really does affect me as a, as a parent and I think When I put the Ukrainian family in the book, I think that was why, Because, I don't know, it was the first major war situation since I had kids. And I don't necessarily think I was necessarily thinking about the children during the first Iraq war in Afghanistan. I don't think that they were necessarily at the forefront of my mind. Whereas now, how children are affected by these things very much are. It always is at the forefront of my mind. And so when I told their story in the book, because their son Lev, and my oldest, Alfie, they're the same age. And I sort of sit there and I'm like, lev has left everything, absolutely everything. His school, friends, everything. They bundled him into a car and basically drove across Europe until they could find somewhere to settle that was safe. And it just blew my mind that this little boy had done that with his sister. And then I met him. And in the September, when he started at the school, his English wasn't great by February. I mean, he's picked up all the slang words. Lev's English is incredible. And it's like, well, what is it about this wonderful family that has brought them to this point? And the mum, Julia, still can't read her chapter in the book because the rawness of war is still too much for her, too much, too close. And she had taken. Part of the reason why they had to flee was it started, say, the Thursday, and her mum's next chemo treatment was the Monday. So she's like, we need to get somewhere where my mom can get her chemo or this isn't. Or she's going to die. And then, unfortunately, she did get the chemo treatment and then she was fine, but then it came back and then she passed. But when we talk about migrants, refugees, we. We don't see them always as people, as families, families who are trying to find a safe and secure home for their children. You know, no one puts their baby on a dinghy across the channel because they feel like they have a choice. No one does that. But what I also want to do in the book is to humanize those stories so people understand that they are families with names who had lives, really good lives, in fact, and through events of which they have no control over, their entire world was turned upside down. And if you were in the same situation, you would want to take your kids to safety. That is our role as parents. And yet those parents are penalized and looked down on because the only root that they feel they have is in order to be able to bring their kids to safety. Is by putting them on a boat.

Isn't it just still so sort of saddening and shocking that. That there's a judgment on that? As if, like you say, you know the saying about no one puts their child in a dinghy if it's safer.

Yeah.

On ground.

Yeah.

But it's still. Still such a huge issue in the media, too, in social.

Yeah.

And the dehumanizing of. Of refugees and saying migrants. Well, no, the migrants are the ones who moved to Spain who are very white, called Bob and Karen. Got a nice little bungalow, retired. All power to you. But you got to have it both ways.

You know, it's. I always think that the assumption always is that if anybody is coming to the country, they were uneducated, they want.

To be a benefits ground. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. Whereas these, on the whole, they. And it. You know, they are intelligent people who had lives.

Yeah.

And no one, you know, Alex and Yulia, they didn't ask for Putin to start dropping bombs near to their house. It was when a bomb was dropped on the route they usually take left to school. That was a point at which they said, we have to go.

Can't we help?

You know, we have to go.

Yeah.

And then it's the idea of what I love, as I sort of speak to what it was that they packed in the car, because what is it about your family story and your home that you want to preserve, what you take with you in case your home never exists again in its physical form? And, you know, I talk to them about that and why these things are important and all of that stuff, because I think when you live in a country like we do here, and the chances are no one's gonna, like, randomly drop bombs on us, and suddenly we have to flee somewhere. We can be safe in the knowledge that that really isn't gonna happen anytime soon. But I think we've forgotten that, actually. People have feelings and people. It's not fair. And everybody, and especially every child, which I talk about in the book, every child deserves a safe and secure home.

Yeah.

Because it plays into so much. Into the choices we make as adults, the partners we choose, where we live, what we do as a job, how our mental health, all of these things can sometimes be based on whether or not we grew up in a safe and secure home, what our home life was like. And I think. I think all kids deserve to be in a safe and secure home.

Facts.

Yeah.

What gives you the sort of the biggest buzz is it just before they're in your ear, counting down the News. Or is it sitting next to Janet Street Porter when she tells a story about one of her many ex husband.

Do you know what I love working with. With Janet and Gloria at two of my most.

Okay, wait, I was gonna say my other question was gonna be, when you see the list of who's gonna be doing the show, who makes you go, oh, bloody hell, it's gonna be a good one. Who gives you the good. The giggles of something bad's gonna kick off.

Oh, it's the naughty girl at the back of the class. I'll make Denise. Who's Denise? Denise is anytime. And they always sit her next to me and I'm like, oh, God, all she's gonna do is get me into trouble. I adore that woman. With Janet and Gloria, I always think that when guests come on and you've got Janet, Gloria, and you've got Linda on especially. Yeah. They never know what question's going to come. And I never know what story they're going to tell. I never know what sort of tangent and direction they're going to go in. And I absolutely love it.

Yeah.

Because you know what's going to come.

Out of their mouth.

No, and I love that. And it's, you know, how often do you sort of see feisty, opinionated, brilliant women of that era?

Yeah, because glory is what, now?

80, 83, maybe? You know, of that era being given the chance to do the thing they love and that they do really, really well without sort of having some person who's, like, being condescending and trying to hurry them up or what have you. We don't do that on this show.

No, that happens in the press.

Yeah, yeah, that happens in the press.

Who talk about the show.

Yeah. And whereas you sort of. I adore them. Because you just don't know what's gonna come out next. Especially Linda comes in Tenderhearts going, please don't swear today, Linda, please don't swear. And then with Denise, Denise does a really naughty thing, which I adore her for, but we'll sort of be having a discussion about something or another and she'll just be writing something on a piece of paper and slip it over to me live on air. And I might glance down on it and it'd be some inappropriate bit of gossip that she really shouldn't be telling me. And then I've got to keep a straight face.

Yeah.

And I'm like. And then carry on talking. Meanwhile, I can see her internally. Absolutely. Killing herself.

Increasing herself.

Oh, yeah.

So, Denise, Olivia Atwood did the Same thing. We've had a succession of. Of women who do. They're the two from Loose Women, but, you know, female guests who come in and they know that generally if you're in this room, you're in a safe environment.

Yeah.

And the stuff that comes out is so funny. Denise started talking as she's coming in the door. This is in our own studio. She's down the corridor. And as she's walking down the corridor, I can hear her start talking to me. And I'm in the back of the shoot room and then she comes in, she's like, well, can you believe that? And then she's just off. She's like, hi, everyone. Hi, everyone. I'm Denise.

Always. There's always some story to tell.

Always.

And I always like being on. Sometimes I can be a bit late for work because I'm rushing around with the kids. But when Denise is in, I really, really love being on time because that's when you get the tea. So the tea always happens.

Denise has more.

30 in the morning.

More tea than. I mean, Olivia would have good tea.

Ah, yeah. But Denise is a different level.

Denise is a different level. And I don't know where it. It comes from.

There's like Twinings tea.

Yeah.

Which is live. Then he got Fortnum's tea.

Yeah.

Which is Denise.

I think Denise is actually Yorkshire. Extra strong Yorkshire.

Okay.

I think Denise is here. Classy Fortnums yet. But in terms of the strength of the. She'll say things. And I'm like, who said what? Said when? And she went, oh, you know them. And it's also casual and it's never done with malice. That's the joy of Denise.

And I do have to.

Never done with.

We've had this discussion on the show before. It's never like, I. I know that I can tell Denise something very personal and she will take that to the grave.

Tell her everything about me, my family, my kids, everything.

She's brilliant. But anything which is sort of in the public domain but not in the papers, you know, she will share.

Oh, yeah.

And I'll just sit back and let her.

Let her roll.

Oh, it is, I have to say, a really beautiful thing. Yeah.

I love. I love Denise.

She's a. She's a beautiful person.

She is. We shared so much. So about, like, her kids.

Yeah.

My kids. Because she has her boys. I have my boys, I have Ava. But the first thing we always do is ask how our kids are. And it's not because I don't ask her, because her kids Are Matty and Louis. They're Matty and Louis, but they're Den's kids to me. So when I see Lou, I'm obsessed with Louis.

I know, because you went to see. I was meant to go to that gig you were in. Did you go to the island one?

We went to a few, yeah. Yeah. And Daniel followed them. My son followed them around the world. So did Max. They were in Japan and all sorts. So Denise tells me everything, but it's like Bible. You would never. Oh, you would never. And I know I can say anything to her about my kids, and when she sees the kids, she would never. Yeah, she'll give me a look. Agreed with this little, you know.

Agreed. And I. I adore the bones of that woman. And, you know, she's been in the industry for such a long time, she knows just about everyone.

Forget the amount of stories. Oh, my God, I could do a podcast and have Denise on at least once a season, and she would never repeat the same story.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

Never repeat the same story.

Shouldn't at all. And because I've come later into Denise's life, so he's known each other four years, she always caveats. Certain stories she'll tell me. So she goes, oh, it was my. Because you'll see the shock on my face. And then she goes, it's the drinking days, darling. Okay. I only know this Denise, so I. I don't know what the other version of. Of her was at that point. So she always. She'll say a story. She'll immediately look at me for the horror. And then she'd go, it's okay, darling. It's a different time. Time.

It's also. Olivia Atwood was saying how she'll say, don't go anywhere. I've got something to tell you.

Yes.

And then she goes. And you. Everyone's like, where the has she gone?

And then we're all waiting.

Or you're on a WhatsApp chat. So you're on a chat because with denise, it's either 20 messages in two minutes or nothing.

Nothing for two weeks. Yeah.

So you don't. And then you go. And then she'll say, oh, I forgot to tell you. And then she stops typing.

Yeah.

Her ADHD's gone and she's checked out. And I'm like, dan, what are you gonna tell me?

Yeah, I'm really pleased that we all have the same.

We all have the same experience. Love her dearly.

Yeah.

But reply quicker.

Yeah.

Strap yourselves in, people. I'm going on tour for the first time ever and I am so here for it, bringing our wild and wonderful glad we had this chat podcast to a venue near you. Promising you an unforgettable night of unbridled honesty, unfiltered opinions, F bombs, and fearlessness. Come join me and a stellar lineup of special guests as we talk all things skincare and beauty, along with frank discussions about life's adventures, challenges, highlights and joys. With exclusive on stage skincare demos, entertaining Q&As and a healthy dose of unscripted hilarity. This is Caroline Hirons me live and apparently on steroids. It's happening. Get your tickets [e-mail] and secure your spot. Right, let's do beauty.

Okay.

Skin care.

Okay.

Earliest memories of anything like that.

Yes. So my mom and my. My aunt is really big in skincare. She's what, 74 now and has like the skin of like a baby's bottom. She's incredible. She's done facials as far back as I can remember. Every month, same facial, same beautician, you know, for decades.

What a ledge.

Oh, she's brilliant. And she and my mum, the first thing they bought me to do was skincare dream, like the Clinique 3 step. So they bought me that and taught me how to, you know, it's important to cleanse, toner, moisturize and all of that stuff. And I must have been.

Brilliant marketing. 12 Brilliant marketing from Estee Lauder really worked well. Brilliant marketing. It's actually not true, but they, I mean, Clinique is a completely made up brand by Estee Lauder. Genius.

You know, and then I. But then I, I suspect I may be wrong, but it was probably not as bad for my skin as some of the stuff that they sell to teenagers now.

Oh, God, no, no, of course it was.

Yeah.

No, no.

So I feel like it was soft enough ish for my. Yeah, my skin. So I kept up with that 12 step program.

Depending on which clarifying lotion they gave you. Clarifying lotion number one. Fine. Clarifying lotion three and four. They used to clean the counters in the stores.

Colors? Yeah, I think mine was pink. Was mine pink? Yeah. Was that the one or two?

I think.

Okay, cool.

I think you're good. So Clinique 3 sip.

Yes.

Is like your earliest memory. What's your skincare routine like now?

It's had to change a lot because I had a reaction earlier on this year, so I've had to completely change all the brands that I use. Haven't been to Dermatologist. I now know it was two sort of random preservatives.

Okay.

That I now have. Having done my allergy testing just a couple of weeks ago, I know what the preservatives are and I have to now keep an eye on anything I buy now has it. Honestly, it's like whole metal that I can't think of. Anyway. But when I saw the dermatologist after I saw the first doctor back in February, she got me to change everything and just use the really, really mild French brand. So even things like that, which I then wasn't reacting to, I now have to sort of. It's fine. But when I use the cleanser, I have to like, cleanse my face like four times in order to take it.

I'll give you mine. You'll be fine.

Okay, then that's fine.

Fragrance free, just in case.

Perfect. So it's had to change because, yeah, I basically had this awful reaction. My eyes just sort of swelled and I couldn't open them up in the middle of the night. But then I realized, having seen the first doctor, that a lot of that was. I was stressed and didn't realize it and I wasn't sleeping properly and I didn't realize it. So it meant that I probably have been having this reaction for a long time because my music was really low. That's when it came out in my face.

So not ideal.

No. But part of the things that my. That the doctor got me to do and I actually understand a lot better than I did before, is I sort of put collagen powder in water and stuff like that. And I've learned a lot about the benefits of that. And I kind of feel like I probably have read up about that stuff before, but don't necessarily believe people unless I feel like they're not selling me something.

Yeah, we all fall for that.

Yeah.

But then you get to a point where you're like, oh, no, actually, I do need that.

Yeah, it really does work.

It really does work.

Water bottle. That's what that massive water bottle is.

I bought one of them. I used it maybe twice.

Oh, no, I use it every day.

The massive Stanley Cup.

I. I use it every single day.

I will take it up again. So I'm not.

Yeah, I've got my little hat, cowboy.

Hat on top of it. I also fell into the trap of buying it accessories for said Stanley cup. As if I'm 17, I'm 55.

Well, I bought the my. Because my niece is 14 and she's in the States and it's her. That got me into it. And then she got me to get the. The strap, the crossover bag.

I didn't do the cross.

Stanley cup him. And it arrived and look in the mirror and I was like, I can't do that. I need to remember, you're 44 years.

Old, you're from South London.

Yeah.

You can't be wearing a crossbody Stanley cup holder that.

The strap died to death.

Okay. Yeah, Good. What's been your biggest beauty disaster? Anything where you've got. Oh, I can't do that. I can't believe I did that. Like, I crimped my hair and dyed it black. My mother cried. She didn't say, you look hideous. She just went, oh, it's very nice.

Oh, I would say I've had some really not great weaves in my time.

Right.

I've stopped wearing. I haven't worn a weave in years. But I look back at footage of me doing the news and at points where I've gone, yeah, that wasn't the best choice in the world.

Like, me and my fake eyelashes. Remember my fake eyelashes?

Remember the fake eyelashes?

How bad were they?

Yeah, I mean, they were.

You didn't message me. You didn't say, babe, take it from top.

But then I can't message the legend. Shut up. I mean, I can now.

If you had messaged me and said, babe, I love you, but those lashes have got to go, I'd be like, why did no one tell me? Charlene said, I'm going to get the lashes gone.

And it's also when I. Like when my weave was gramming out and I thought it still looked good. I now look at footage of me back in the day and I'm like, why did no one tell me, sha, the weave's gotta come out.

People who you trust. I always say, if I would say it to you, you should say it to me.

Yeah.

Like, I'll be like, babe, I'm not being funny. You need to put a brush through that hair, you know?

Wow. Yeah. You do need someone like that in your life.

Or you can see tits or you have to have the people around.

You and Kelly are very good at that.

I can see that. So Denise would Absolutely.

Oh, yeah.

If she could see it because she's also blind.

Yeah, well.

Oh, yeah, that's also true.

But then, Kel, if, like, she's not keen on how my makeup's been done, she'll always be like, you need to do this, this and this. You need to go back and have a conversation. I'll Go. Okay, Kelly. Okay. And she'll literally be stood there directing the makeup artist and what they should be doing with my face. And then with Judy, if I put something on, I try something, usually I already know it doesn't look great, and I'll say no to wearing it. But even when it's on the hanger, she'll just go, no, no, no. And. And I go to it.

No.

Okay.

That's what you need.

They're very, very, very, very honest.

That's what you need.

And I love having that in my life.

Oh, it's the best.

Yeah.

But if. As long as it's done with your best intentions and they're not saying you're the white dog today.

No, no.

You know, if it's more like that lip bay blend or blend.

Exactly. And that. That's where Carl's Ricky. Because Carol's very, very into perfectly done makeup up. And she'll be like, when we did the 25th anniversary silver shoot, Kelly is the one who. The photographer will take a picture. She'll always go around and look at it. Screen and have a look. Let's go. Sha. Just move yourself just slightly. Yeah. Okay. That's much better. And then she'll come back and sit down.

How amazing is that?

I mean. Yeah.

Also, how well did you all scrub up? We'll find that pick and put it on. But that was a good shoot. I was like, like, get it, girls.

It was amazing.

Were you all together? It looked like some of you were superimposed in. Yeah.

I mean, we only did it in, like, groups of three or four.

Right.

So the photographer did phenomenally well with it.

Yeah.

And we just. Oh. Anytime we can. Even if five, six of us can all be together in one go, it's just really lovely just to hang out and see each other and chat. And we're at Christine's daughter's. Patricia's birthday party not that long ago. And that was a really lovely opportunity for us all to sit and chat and also hang out with each other's partners, hang out with the kids, have the kids, hang out with each other. It's really lovely to have quality time with the women. But we all have such hectic schedules and live all over the country.

Yeah.

That's not always possible. So when we can. It's beautiful. Genuinely beautiful.

And they're all good people, too. I went to Stacy's wedding.

Oh.

And Linda was there. And my husband fancied Linda when he was younger. And he got drunk and he went straight up to Linda.

She would have loved.

Oh, she had her arms around him quicker than you can. He was like, all right, Linda, I just got to tell you, he turns into Danny Dyer when he's not drinking. He literally went like, all right, darling, because he is West London. But, you know, you want to go, who's looking here? Who are you? Anyway, he went. I was going to say, oh, my God, I fancied you when I was young. Da, da.

And she.

And he went to give her a hug, and she put her hands under his jacket to give him a hug, and he was like, oh. And she went, that's the best fucking action I've had all year.

See, she absolutely loves it.

They spent the whole night, like, dancing next to her, like, you go for it, babe. Go for it. You have. You have your fun. Off you go.

It would have made her night. It really would have done.

Who does your glam on Loose Women? Do you always have the same people?

So we have rotation. I had a makeup is Fran. Pauline also is part of the rotation. But Pauline also does my makeup privately as well and stuff for events and whatever. I love pay and. Yeah, we have a team of people that sort of work with us outside of work. It's usually Pauline that outside of the studio, if you've got events or anything, it's P. That usually comes and does. Does my makeup.

Nice. When you've got someone who knows how you like to have your face and you can just drink your tea and let them do their thing.

And also, I would industry a long time, so I've been in. The majority of my time in the industry has been spent carrying my foundation with me, my blusher with me, my concealer with me, my powder with me. Basically a mini makeup bag to give to makeup artists in order to be able to do my face.

Yeah.

Because they could never pick the right color. They couldn't blend. They'd forever be putting weird colors on my eyes, you know, because I've dark skin. All they want to do is, like, put really bright and lucid colors on my eyes, all of that stuff. And I think the reason why Kelly advocates for me on occasion is because I still even now, feel quite awkward when I know I'm with someone who can't do dark skin very well. Yeah. And I sort of try and direct them.

Yeah.

But still not everybody can. Still not every, you know, hairdresser on shoots can do Afro hair. So I will always make sure I either travel with my hairdresser Lorraine, all my hair is already done. Because it'd be that Awkward thing. We kind of walk in and they're like, oh, so what is it that you want to. And it's like, it's fine. I'll. I'll do it myself.

Unacceptable, though. In 2024. It is. It's not. It's not so much a judgment thing. It's a. Get off your ass and make sure you teach yourself. Don't call yourself a makeup artist if you can only do one color skin and one type of skin.

Yeah. But also it's, you know, you also need that diversity within the teams, within the makeup teams. There is still, you know, there is still a lot of makeup teams who work on shows where there still isn't that much diversity. And so what they would rather do is teach their current. Try and teach their current makeup artists to do darker skin rather than get, say, a black makeup artist to come in who can do all skins, pay.

The pro to come in and do everybody.

And there's a massive, you know, there is a huge, huge gap, you know, but it definitely isn't as bad as it. As it used to be.

Yeah.

You know, whether. Where there'd be situations where I've just come in to do my own makeup, because. Not on loose and not on the. The news, but, you know, if I was doing other stuff, I would just carry the makeup bag around with me and just do it myself, because sometimes that was the safest option.

Yeah.

And yet you have a whole, you know, people who didn't have darker skin would not know what that feels like. When I know I'm not going to be catered to, but you've invited me on to do something, but you can't be bothered to book somebody who can do darker skin. And what does that say about the respect that I get when it's something you don't bother checking?

Yeah. Out of order. Yeah, out of order. Okay. Frivolous.

Okay.

If your bathroom is on fire or your bathroom cabinet, just your cabinet, I don't want you to actually be in any danger.

Okay.

What's the one product you would save?

Micellar water. Really? Do you know why?

Interesting. We've never had that.

Do you know why? Because for years, although I was double cleansing and doing all of that stuff, I forget the thick layer of makeup that I wear for work.

Yeah.

So. And I. I'm not one of those people goes, oh, I accidentally fell asleep in my makeup. Have I said ever? No, because I couldn't think of anything worse. But then I. I realized that I was leaving remnants of my makeup on even When I thought I'd taken it all off.

Yeah.

Even though I've double cleansed twice. And the micellar water for me and it's the cerave one that I use, takes off the remnants so that my skin is squeaky clean in order to be able to then put on moisturizer.

It's interesting you say that because I think the only time I ever triple cleanse is when I've got telemakeup. Yeah, totally Think about. Because they don't. You don't realize. Well, like, when you do your face. Normally, most of us do our face dinner and you stop here and you just blend a bit. Tv, they're down everywhere. They're behind the ear. You are basically from. And if you're wearing a V neck, forget it.

They're in the tits.

So anything that you're wearing, your makeup is going to go under that all the way down. So you can be absolute. The joy is like. You can tell people have had their eyes done, but their skin's glowing. That's a shitload of makeup, I'm telling you. Yeah. When I first did QVC and they had a HD camera, I nearly died.

Yeah.

Because there's no makeup artists. They have them to the bigger shows. But I was just like, yes.

Okay.

So I looked. I was like, oh, my. I look like I'm in a coffin. It's just shocking.

It's a lot. And then you put a lot and double doesn't work. No, triple. Triple doesn't work.

Build and build and build and build.

And then I have to. And then. But then the micellar water for me gives me just to take off that tiny bit of residue that's left. That's what I do.

What's your buy it for life product? Like, if you're ever out of it, it's a panic.

Oh, got lip balm, obviously.

What's your favorite?

I'm currently back on the yellow tube.

Carmex.

Back on the Carmax.

Hard to go wrong with a bit of Carmex. But the only thing I don't like about Carmex is the round applicator. Because it's still got the round one.

Yeah.

I would like a triangular shape so it fits the lip.

Because I tried, like, the expensive ones. I've tried the very expensive lavache posay one and all of those, like, really expensive ones. But this. But like a cheap is pretty much does the job.

Yeah. It's pretty much the same. I don't want to put my finger in an expensive pot.

No.

I just Want to?

Yes. Put it on and go. And it's done. Although because of my massive Stanley Cup, I do now drink lots and lots of water. My lips tend to get less dry these days. Oh, yeah, Because I'm getting my two liters a day, babes.

You know it's Stanley cup, innit?

Yeah. Cups by other brands also exist.

What's your favorite fragrance and scent? And do the other loose women smell a fragrance or do you not really wear it when you're on air? I've always wondered, do they sit there and go, oh, Janet's in. I can smell her in the nicest, most respectful way.

Do you know what they. That's interesting you say that because, yes, they do all have a very particular smell. I'm really bad at spraying perfume on myself daily. I go through waves.

Right.

So I do le labo santel 33. And awesome. Well, I. I kept smelling it on the young people. So I asked the young people what it was.

What are you wearing?

So then I started wearing it and walk down the street and have like random young people go, Santel33. I'm like, yes. But I keep forgetting to spray it on. I'm really bad with perfume. Like my mum, she was eternity.

Wow.

For Women by Calvin Kai and not AP Chanel, obviously. Obviously. And then when I wanted to be a grown up and have perfume, I remember I was like, I'm gonna buy Chanel.

Yeah.

I didn't bought it. And you're like, oh, my God, I smell like an old woman. Oh, no.

I went to cocoa instead. So I smelled like a rich old woman.

Oh, you did smell like a rich old woman. Yeah, that's, that's, that. Yeah, that's the difference.

Because my mum smells Chanel number five, so I could never. Because that's just her. Yeah, But Coco. And before Coco, Mademoiselle, when they made it a bit more girly Coco Cocoa.

I remember Coco.

Coco could take your tits off.

It was so strong, so strong, so strong. And then you kind of think, this is what I need to be grown up. And then you realize everyone's moving away.

From me on the bus.

Oh, no. So I. That's a smell I can't smell now. It's like. So I do Le Labo, but I forget to spray it on and is.

It a nice smelling panel?

It's a beautiful smell.

You wear perfume to go live.

Yeah, the women do.

Yeah.

I forget, like, I'm not one of the makeup artists at the news always finds me utterly fascinating because I don't Walk around with a makeup bag.

Right.

So I never have powder, lipstick, Nyx, concealer. I do. And I never have walked around with a makeup bag. As far as I'm concerned, why would I make my bag heavier? So she's always found that fascinating. Whereas I find that people that do walk around with makeup bags will have, like, a little perfume in there.

Yeah.

And reapply perfume.

Yeah.

Whereas my mum didn't really wear makeup, so she never walked around with a makeup bag. So it's not like a habit I got into. So I'm sure my face is very shiny now, but that's because I don't carry powder around with me. And she. The woman at work, Amelia, is always like, yeah, but you work on tv. I'm like, yeah, no, I know. But if it runs out by the end of the day, if it's Macy gone, it's Macy gone. I just don't care.

Yeah.

And I walk around with no makeup on all the time.

It's not the most important thing.

Oh, it's not. I don't care.

No one cares. Ultimately, no one cares. We are coming to the end. Do you have a burning question for me?

Yes.

Should I be scared? Because you're like a news reader and I'm quite intimidated.

I'm not. I'm not going to grill you. I promise.

That'll be fun.

Dark circles under eyes. Short of collagen powder and oily fish, what is missing from my life? What should I be putting to lighten the darker circles under my eyes?

There's only so much you can do.

Oh, really?

Dark circles. Yeah. Filler.

Oh, no, I'm not going down. No, I've got dark skin. I don't need those things.

Say it. You can say it.

Black. Don't.

There you go. I was waiting.

You can say it.

I can't say it. You can say it. Oprah said it.

I remember once someone tried to get me to have free filler and free Botox.

You don't need it.

And I could have only been in my early 30s, behave. And I. My response was, do I really look like I need it? And the answer is no.

Nice.

And they were like, yes, but it's preventative. Do you know how dark skin ages? Yeah, I'm good.

It doesn't, basically, rudely. No. With the filler, the only reason, it's not for the aging, it's that the filler sits between the skin and the. The. What causes the dark circles behind?

What causes the dark side?

It's just blood circulation, so it's but the filler plugs a gap, that's all. It's not like a. Like, yeah, Surprise tambourine vase.

So it just provides a barrier.

It's a barrier, yeah. So.

Wow.

Ultimately, though, you are predisposed. You're going to be more. A few darker skin tones, you know, sort of continental Asian skin. So it's. It's going to be something that's there. So a good concealer and keep it hydrated with a lovely eye cream. And you can use an eye cream that has light reflective properties.

That's quite nice. Does your eye cream have light reflective.

It's not out yet, which I'll tell you later.

Okay. Because I don't use eye cream, so maybe that would help. Oh. Oh, my gosh. I. How did I. I've gone this long without offending you, so I reckon I've done really well.

You don't use an eye cream.

Maybe that's why I have the dark. So I've never used an eye cream.

I mean, your skin's fantastic. Don't take any notice of me. I just love an eye cream.

Will it make. Would it feel like soft and.

Yes.

Silky.

Yeah.

Okay. And will it rehydrate underneath that?

Okay.

Maybe. Maybe that's what's missing in my life is an eye cream.

Maybe.

Yeah, maybe. Caroline, for you. I'll try it.

Okay, great.

Yeah.

And you know what? Charlene, for you, I'll hit you up and I'll sort you out.

Okay, thanks.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

I think we've covered everything from news to Loose Woman to Denzy. Obviously that's very important to get that in. Yeah. To beauty to. My God. So true.

Covered everything.

Sir Trev.

Should I tell Sir Trev you said hi?

Oh, my God. Tell him I love him.

Okay, I will do.

I mean, he's a legend.

He is a legend.

But how are you in his presence and you're not like, oh, you're so Trev.

Oh. Because Trev and I like a glass of red wine.

Let's get drunk. So you heard it here first. Charlie Knight, enabler. Where's the Trevor Donald? Oh, he's hammered out the back. Shaz has been round. They're done in. He needs to tap out. Someone needs to take him home. Call Addie Lee.

No, it'll be Trev. That's locked. Trev. Stamina. So, Trev. Stamina, stamina. How old is he now? Is joyful. Yeah. Early 80s. But he's this incredible stammer with the red wine. I will tap out before Sir Trust taps out in bed by nine.

Yeah, my absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday in our Listeners Questions episode, so make sure you tune in. Send your questions for me and my guests to answer to podarolinehirons.com until then, I'm glad we had this chat. New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday. Follow us. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Glad we had this chat is produced by Wall to Wall Media.