S2 Ep16: Charlene White and Caroline Hirons Answer Your Questions

Summary

Podcast Summary: Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons Episode: Season 2, Episode 16 – Charlene White and Caroline Hirons Answer Your Questions Release Date: January 1, 2025

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In Season 2, Episode 16 of Glad We Had This Chat, Caroline Hirons, the acclaimed British skincare expert, teams up with Charlene White to address a variety of listener-submitted questions. This episode delves deep into personal boundaries, fertility concerns, menopause challenges, aging gracefully, financial dynamics within families, and the delicate balance of returning to work post-maternity leave. Additionally, the hosts engage in a lively "this or that" segment, showcasing their personalities and preferences.

1. Setting Boundaries with Family

Timestamp: [02:03] – [03:35]

A listener shares feelings of being overwhelmed by her parents' expectations and the disproportionate support she provides due to her sister's distant location. Caroline advises:

"Don't be constantly available. And then they'll be forced to draft in the sister that's two hours away." ([02:34])

Charlene echoes the sentiment, emphasizing the importance of controlling the situation and regularizing the sister's involvement to prevent becoming the sole caregiver.

2. Desire to Have Children Later in Life

Timestamp: [03:57] – [05:30]

Mila from Birmingham expresses anxiety about not having children in her late 30s. Charlene suggests exploring options beyond natural conception:

"Instead of waiting for a partner to come along, there are other options... women should get the quality of their eggs tested." ([04:38])

Caroline adds a personal touch, sharing her own determination to become a mother regardless of circumstances, highlighting the importance of proactive measures like visiting a specialist or considering clinics.

3. Managing Menopausal Brain Fog

Timestamp: [05:30] – [08:17]

A listener discusses the cognitive challenges of menopause affecting her work performance. Charlene recommends building a supportive network:

"Find a girl gang... and there are ways to deal with it, like HRT." ([06:50])

Caroline emphasizes the necessity of medical consultation to confirm menopause-related symptoms and discusses the importance of maintaining mental and emotional well-being during this transition.

4. Embracing Aging and Body Changes

Timestamp: [08:17] – [11:17]

Struggling with self-consciousness about wrinkles and weight gain, a listener seeks advice on embracing aging. Charlene encourages self-reflection on dietary and lifestyle habits:

"Are you low in vitamins and supplements? Are you being active enough?" ([09:12])

Caroline suggests shifting focus from appearance to overall health, advocating for prioritizing skin health and general well-being over societal beauty standards.

5. Navigating Financial Success Amidst Family Struggles

Timestamp: [11:17] – [12:57]

A listener celebrates financial success but feels conflicted about her family's financial struggles. Charlene advises:

"You've worked really hard to have what you have. Enjoy that... Your family should find ways to remedy their situation themselves." ([12:19])

Caroline reinforces the idea that personal achievements deserve celebration without guilt, emphasizing the importance of setting healthy boundaries to prevent financial insecurity.

6. Balancing Work and Parenting Post-Maternity Leave

Timestamp: [12:58] – [16:15]

Returning to work after maternity leave poses challenges for a listener struggling to juggle job demands and parenting. Charlene highlights the significance of partnership:

"Your partner should be helping to carry the load... Make sensible choices about what kind of father that person is going to be." ([14:04])

Caroline shares her own experience, advocating for shared responsibilities and rejecting the notion of perfection, which often leads to unnecessary guilt.

7. Quick Fire: This or That Segment

Timestamp: [16:15] – [32:06]

In a spirited "this or that" round, Caroline and Charlene reveal their personal preferences on various topics, adding humor and relatability to the episode. Highlights include:

• Boots or Superdrug: Charlene prefers Superdrug for their hair section catering to Black women's needs.

  "They were the ones that realized that black women spend a lot of money on hair products." ([18:34])

• Bold Eye or Bold Lip: Both lean towards bold eye looks, with Charlene expressing definitive preferences.

• Dewy or Matte: Charlene opts for matte to avoid the oily appearance dewiness can sometimes bring.

  "I never know when Dewey's gonna turn to oily." ([19:06])

• Heels or Flats: Despite enjoying heels, Charlene acknowledges the practicality of switching to trainers later in the evening.

  "I can't do raving all night in heels anymore." ([23:37])

• Nando's or Waggers: Both show a clear preference for Nando's, especially discussing the nuances of wings seasoning.

  "Morley's is well seasoned, a little bit of spicing." ([25:22])

• Favorite Sandwich: Charlene loves prawn mayo sandwiches paired with ready salted crisps, while Caroline shares her affinity for crispy, well-layered sandwiches.

  "It should be the law... You have to squash it down." ([29:17])

Their playful banter and contrasting viewpoints offer listeners a glimpse into their personalities beyond their professional expertise.

Conclusion

Throughout this episode, Caroline Hirons and Charlene White provide heartfelt, honest, and practical advice on navigating complex personal and professional challenges. Their candid discussions on setting boundaries, embracing motherhood at any stage, managing menopausal symptoms, accepting aging, and balancing financial dynamics within families resonate deeply with listeners. The engaging "this or that" segment further humanizes the hosts, making the episode both informative and entertaining.

Listeners are left with valuable insights and a sense of camaraderie, reinforcing the podcast's reputation as a trusted source for genuine conversations on life's myriad challenges.

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Notable Quotes:

• On Setting Boundaries:
  "Don't be constantly available. And then they'll be forced to draft in the sister that's two hours away." – Caroline Hirons ([02:34])

• On Fertility Options:
  "Women should get the quality of their eggs tested. If you're ticking, you need to freeze." – Charlene White ([04:38])

• On Embracing Aging:
  "I just choose a different outfit... I'm a bit older and wiser now. I just don't care." – Charlene White ([09:56])

• On Work-Life Balance:
  "This child is not all my responsibility... I don't set myself an impossible challenge." – Caroline Hirons ([15:24])

These snippets encapsulate the episode's essence, highlighting the hosts' commitment to authenticity and support.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I am ready.

[A]

They expect us to just be outrageous and tell them what they need to know. Okay, you don't have to be soft. This isn't Loose itv. I'm not watching you. Let rip. I love my parents, but they expect a lot from me and I'm feeling overwhelmed. My sister lives two hours away, so I'm always the one helping my parents out, compromising, bending over backwards for them. I feel like I have no time to myself anymore. How can I set boundaries without feeling like I'm letting them down?

[B]

Be busy. Okay, so it's. But it's. It's a bit busy. Don't make yourself constantly available.

[A]

Don't be constantly available.

[B]

And then they'll be forced to draft in the sister that's two hours away.

[A]

Also, don't let the sister get away with it. I had this conversation with my brother last week. There was this whole sketch about mums of sons versus mums of daughters. This comedian did this sketch and it was all like, mummy's little boy. Oh, look. And then it was like, difference with mums with daughters is you look fat in that.

[B]

I saw exactly the same sketch. I saw it on Instagram and I.

[A]

Said to him, that was Mum with you? She'd be, like, in a bad mood or something would go wrong or he would annoy her and she would go. I'd say, well, tell him, don't tell me, I'm at work. Tell Chris. And she'd go, oh, no, I don't upset him. What the fuck am I?

[B]

You have to, like, control. She just needs to, like, control the situation. Don't make it available.

[A]

Get that sister booked in for regular visits.

[B]

Exactly right.

[A]

I've had them for three weeks. When are you coming? Yeah, that's what happens. It flips.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You become the carers. That's what happens. But you don't have to.

[B]

But also. But also. I bet she's an older sister. About. The one that lives near is an older sister. I'm the oldest.

[A]

I'm the oldest.

[B]

You see, it's different. Only older sisters can understand that.

[A]

My mum's will. I've got my brother, my stepbrother and my stepdad, bless his heart, he was broken. He inherited everything. On paper, everything. I mean, just a normal marriage. Nothing flash. It's not like, what in, you know, Bill Gates here. But the will should have said. Caroline will sort it, say did. All of it. Literally all of it. Funeral.

[B]

It's always on us.

[A]

Always, always, always. Don't take it. Mila from Birmingham. I'm in my late 30s and I always imagined I'd have children by now. Life hasn't gone quite as planned. I focused on my career and had some relationships that didn't work out. And now I'm wondering if I'll ever get the chance to be a parent. I feel this deep longing to be a mum. But as the years go by, the pressure and anxiety are building and I'm scared. It may never happen, Grace.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It may never happen.

[B]

For you, it may. It may never happen. And if you don't feel like you want to wait for a partner to come along, there are other options.

[A]

Don't get yourself knocked up, babes.

[B]

You could. You could always just do that.

[A]

Just go and get pregnant.

[B]

You could or, like, freeze your eggs or.

[A]

I know I say that flippantly. I don't want to trigger the Internet into, like, trying to get pregnant. I mean, also, do you know what.

[B]

Women are very bad at and which I always encourage my friends to do, is to get the quality of their eggs tested. Oh. Just because then you know what you're working with if you know time's running out.

[A]

If we're ticking, like my cousin Vinnie. If we're ticking.

[B]

Exactly. You need to know that you're ticking.

[A]

And you need to freeze.

[B]

If they're like, oh, they'll be great for like, 15 years. You've got loads of them. It's like, oh, I don't feel so much.

[A]

I don't need to stretch out.

[B]

Yeah, okay. But you don't know until you test.

[A]

So you need to go to, like, a specialist and first of all, and make sure that you're okay. But you're in your late 30s.

[B]

Pick better partners.

[A]

Well, you're in your late 30s. I. I would say to you as someone who doesn't know you, but wishes you the best, crack on love.

[B]

Yeah. And also, is it because you're being picky? Are you being picky while these relationships.

[A]

There are places available and they will give you sperm?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's. If that's what you want it that badly. I know for a fact I want a kid so badly that if I wasn't with Jim, I know I would have gone down another road. I would have done something to get pregnant. I know I would have. And I don't mean, like, trap anyone or anything like that. I'm talking about clinic or some kind of, you know.

[B]

But I think, say, Andy and I met when I was 35, so it was a geriatric pregnancy. When I became pregnant.

[A]

That's great. That, isn't it? When they told me I was a geriatric, I was like, I'm 31.

[B]

Brilliant. But then I wonder what I would have done. And I probably would have lowered my standards and maybe I was being a.

[A]

Bit picky, but it all worked out.

[B]

It worked out.

[A]

But, yeah, if you don't want to lower your standards. Test tube, babe. Turkey baster. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

Do people still use a turkey baster?

[A]

I'm sure There's a more eloquent way of doing it. It's just the saying, isn't it?

[B]

Old school.

[A]

Old school.

[B]

Sometimes you've got to go old school.

[A]

I mean, they're quite a larger turkey baster. It's not. Get the job done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's move on. The brain fog that comes with the menopause is really impacting my work. I find it hard to focus and I'm forgetting things I used to remember easily. I'm worried that people at work will notice. They will. It's fine. It's normal. And it's affecting my confidence. What can I do to manage this and still perform well in my job?

[B]

Find a girl gang. You understand that there's so many of us that are going through it, so you're not alone in that. But also, you know, there are ways in which you can deal with it.

[A]

Hrt.

[B]

Yeah. And not be afraid. But when I sort of say girl gang, you sort of need also people around you who are also trying other things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For you to realize, oh, that stuff does work.

[A]

Yeah. You need someone to be like, oh, no. I think we, as women, we. We take on a lot as well as social media. Even my age and I'm older, I'm kind of a late. Not a late adapter of social media, but I've been around longer than social media. God help me.

[B]

Yeah, me. Bye.

[A]

Oh, good God. In the good old days, the dial up. But I, I think it takes a recommendation from a friend to make you go, oh, okay, yeah, that's the switch. Because you can see something and see something and see something, but until someone says, oh, oh, my mate, you know, it's an analogy. My mate actually loved it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You know, and.

[B]

And you also need to make sure that it is the menopause.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because there are so many changes.

[A]

Brain fog just.

[B]

There are so many reasons that that could be happening.

[A]

Yeah. High blood sugar.

[B]

Exactly. So you almost need to get. Go to a doctor, get a blood test and see what it is that you're working with. I think people always assume that because it's spoken about so much more now with women on TV like us guys, or on podcasts or online. People now assume that that's the first port of call.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also you need to have your bloods checked to make sure that it isn't. That it actually is the menopause and then deal with it.

[A]

And also if people at work notice, it actually doesn't matter because you're protected.

[B]

Yes. You are protected.

[A]

I'm Menopausal. I can stab you and get off. Don't fuck with me.

[B]

So, I mean, I'm not saying that's absolutely true. I just always have to put a disclaimer in just in case someone thinks.

[A]

That I like being serious. I'd like to put a disclaimer in here. Charlene White has absolutely no confrontation with me. It's fine. Okay. As I'm getting older, I'm finding it hard to accept my changing appearance. I know aging is natural, but I feel really self conscious about my wrinkles and weight gain. How can I embrace my age and feel confident in my own skin?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Isn't that what all of us go through? I think you have to look at the reasons why you feel uncomfortable with it and also look at what it is that you're doing about it. Is your diet what it should be? Are you low in vitamins and supplements? I definitely was. And are you being active enough? You know, you can't expect things change to happen when you click your fingers. We actually have to put the work in for that. And the benefits you get physically and emotionally are absolutely brilliant. But I think we get into this cycle of which I did.

[A]

You can't see the wood for the trees.

[B]

Yeah, I, I think I've done it on, I think probably after each child, I think, where it's just like, I don't like how I look. My belly's really flabby. I can't lose the weight because it seems to just drop off when you're breastfeeding. And then you stop breastfeeding and then it all comes back again.

[A]

I mean, Jesus, God in heaven.

[B]

And then it's like. And nothing fits me the way it is. I feel unattractive. All these things happen. And you, you, every morning you wake up expecting a different result, having done nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can only have a different result when you do something about it. I wouldn't necessarily. There are still outfits I'd like to fit into which I know don't look great on me, but I'm all right with that. I just choose a different outfit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I, I, maybe I'm just older and wiser now. I'm just a bit like, I just don't care.

[A]

I think you have to prioritize what you want. If you're worried about wrinkles and weight gain. If you switch it to. I want my skin to feel better and I want to feel healthier. Yeah, it's less pressure. Yeah, it's less pressure. But we do, we, we are Predisposed to gain weight when we're menopausal, what happens?

[B]

Yeah, and just generally with, with age and having kids, men and women, I.

[A]

Mean, men around their middle.

[B]

Yeah. And they don't have the excuse for having given birth to.

[A]

No.

[B]

But you know, especially when the weight gain happens after you've had kids, we actually have a reason for that happening and the hormones are changing and all of that stuff. And sometimes, yeah, it's. I, after I made changes in my life, I feel far healthier, I sleep far better. All of that stuff. The byproduct of that is that, yes, I can fit into jeans that I couldn't do that long ago. But I'm not looking to lose weight, so I'm not looking to sort of. I know. Go around in belly tops and low slung jeans. It's just not going to.

[A]

God, it's not. 1994. Jesus. Last time I wore a crop top, it went to, I went to take that Wembley arena and I went to the after show party and I was like, oh, hello, Robbie Williams. Nice little Levi's crop top.

[B]

Oh, yeah, Full circle. And now I keep looking and now I keep talking about the young folk, but they do love her.

[A]

Oh, they love her.

[B]

Oh, yeah. No showing like the belly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As if to go, oh, I'm just making sure you guys know I'm younger than you. Yes, I know.

[A]

I think, I think it's when my daughter wears clothes like that, I go, yes, I know you're fertile.

[B]

Fuck off.

[A]

And I made that body. I can't match that body. Like, okay, fine. All power to you. Okay. I've recently achieved some financial success and I'm lucky to be in a position to buy a new house. My family is struggling financially and I feel conscious about discussing my achievements or plans around them. I don't want to come across as boastful or insensitive. I hate this. I hate this for women. Oh, okay. I don't want to come across as boastful or insensitive, but at the same time, I'm excited for this new chapter in my life. As you should be.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

How can I manage my newfound wealth while being sensitive to the financial difficulties my loved ones are facing? Well, if they're your loved ones, surely they're going to be like, I'm so happy for you. Exactly. Well done. But not all families are like that.

[B]

No, but also. And you can't, you know, you've worked really hard to have what you have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you deserve to.

[A]

Especially if you're all from the same.

[B]

Family and it wasn't handed to you that. I get why that is hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also, if your family care about also getting out of their financial situation, then they talk to you about the best way that they can remedy that situation themselves. You know, you don't want to put yourself financially insecure by helping them out. You've worked to become financially secure. Enjoy that. And who knows, you know, you've got this house that you, you know, they can come around and have a little bite to eat in your cozy little house, but they should never be jealous of you.

[A]

No. Or resentful that you've got it. And if they love you, they'll be really happy. I'd be thrilled.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've recently returned to work after maternity leave and I'm struggling to adjust to the demands of my job while caring for my baby. I feel like I'm doing a mediocre job at both work and at parenting as I can't give either my all. Does it ever get easier?

[B]

I'm sorry, I'm just looking for the partner in that question. I'm searching really, really hard for the partner in that question. I mean, she may not have one.

[A]

I feel like she probably does. We all did the same.

[B]

So it's a bit like. I'm sorry doesn't commute. Are you. If you're not a single parent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then your partner should be helping to carry the load. And one thing I do say, I always sort of say to. To women when they're sort of on the hunt for potential sperm donors, slash boyfriend, slash husband, is when you make that decision, you also need to work out what kind of father that person is going to be. If you are someone that enjoys the work that you do and hasn't got any intention of, say, staying at home and parenting full time, if they also want to work as well, they have to make sensible choices about what kind of father that person is going to be.

[A]

Character.

[B]

And exactly, are they going to be the sort of person that's going to parent alongside me? We parent together so we can both do the things that we want to do both in our lives and in our careers. Or is this going to be the sort of parent who is going to leave me to do everything whilst working, while doing and just leaving me by myself? Why would you consciously make that choice to have that parent in your life when you know it's going to cause you a whole leap of stress for like 18 years?

[A]

No.

[B]

So you make. You have to make sensible choices. So if this person does have a partner. It's like, this isn't a question to be sending in to you, Caroline. This is a conversation that they need to be having with their partner. I am struggling. I am finding this hard. I need help.

[A]

We are in this together. This child is not all my responsibility. If they are on their own, however, I would say don't. I don't do guilt. I've never done guilt. My kids see me working and, you know, I. I've just. I've constantly worked. I was. When we first got together, Jim worked. I was at home with the boys. Then by the time Daniel started who's number two? By the time he started school full time, I went to work full time. And then you get people to pick them up from school and it's a hard struggle. But I don't do guilt.

[B]

I don't. I don't believe in it. I don't believe that my mum had it and both my mum, my dad worked and they worked about.

[A]

Because I promise you one thing, I can guarantee my husband has never had one day of guilt for going to work.

[B]

Yeah, but we're really good at making ourselves feel guilty about things that we shouldn't feel guilty about. I don't feel guilty about it at all because I'm not striving for perfection. I do a job that I love and I love being a parent. I am by no means saying that I have to be perfect at both of those things because it's an impossibility. So I don't set myself an impossible challenge. And I think women have to stop setting themselves impossible challenges and stop expecting.

[A]

Like, newsflash, your kids are gonna grow up and hate you and be disappointed in you the way that we all did. And they come back around. When my kids tried to say things like, oh, I don't know, Mum was always at work and I did not miss the beat. And I'd go, yeah, I was, you're enjoying your PlayStation.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Literally, exactly. And I was like, oh, you going out again? I don't go out often. But why are you going out for dinner? But I said, when you went and hung out with Joseph on Saturday, did I sit on the doorstep and go, I can't believe that you're going to play with Joseph. Why can't you come and play with me? No, I didn't. That's because we both deserve to have friends in our lives, Alfie, and that's the way that human beings work. So, no, I don't expect you to get upset because I'm going to see my friend for dinner. Otherwise, I will be sat on that doorstep on Saturday when Joseph comes and picks you up. And I will beg you to stay. Don't do that. Exactly.

[A]

Exactly. You're welcome. Alfie. I'm never gonna be able to hear that name without singing, though. You know that, don't you?

[B]

What's it all about, Alfie?

[A]

Bert Bacharach. What a legend. There are a few things in life that just keep on giving. For 3.99amonth, a floppy fuel station sarnie, One small cup of bougie. Overpriced coffee. I don't think so. Or for the same price, you could be getting a month's worth of skincare insights and know how from yours truly. A wealth of fresh, expertly written articles on all things skincare and beauty. From our free to download version for essential educational content to our elevated premium experience, the Skinwalks app will revolutionize how you shop and learn about skincare. Whether you're a novice building your first routine, an aficionado wanting deep scientific expertise, or someone looking for the inside scoop on beauty newness, it's all in one pocket friendly place on the skinmox. Applied with simple to use functions that let you filter for your personal profile, save your favorite content, and explore a vast product library with ease. It's no wonder it's called the Google of skincare. Unlock a world of incredible premium content for just 3.99amonth, $34.99 a year. Or get a special discount via the podcast with code chpod to get £10 off your annual subscription. Okay. This or that. Are you ready?

[B]

Okay, go on.

[A]

We're quick fire. No pressure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

A lot depends on this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Boots are superdrug.

[B]

Superdrug.

[A]

My girl. My girl.

[B]

Because they started. They. They were the ones that realized that black women spend a lot of money on. On hair products. They realized that before I left Superdrug.

[A]

For the hair section. And you know what else Superdrug don't do? Put it in a lock box.

[B]

They do not.

[A]

Bold eye or bold lip?

[B]

Bold eye.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I don't like.

[A]

I don't like bold eye.

[B]

Without a shadow of a doubt.

[A]

Dewy or matte. Not for TV Normal.

[B]

I never know when Dewey's gonna turn to oily.

[A]

Okay, this is. I think this is a thing because I had Candice Brathwaite on here and I said jubilee on that. Do you know what her response was? Matt? Dead in my coffin. Dead. No blood pumping through my body. Matt. Yeah, because she's Worried about being oily.

[B]

Yeah. Famous people, I reckon, I think can look dewy, but I always think on me, I just. I just look like sunflower oil has been called.

[A]

The whole thing that you said, black don't crack.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is because your skin can be oily, but it also can be very, very dry.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's a fallacy to say that all black skin has more oil. It's just not true. But I think. Because I think there might. And I've experienced it with, you know, with people who come in and customers. If you think your skin is going to be oily, you will err towards the side of using powder and want to be matte.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I like.

[B]

But I. And I can always. If I haven't drunk a lot of water the night before, I'm going to put on a full face of makeup. I now know that that also aids me being really oily. Definitely not ji the next day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I do try and make sure that I keep up with my water intake. So actually, I know it has an impact on my skin with a little glow. That's a g. But also I. I can see my nose in the corner of my eye and I swear to God, I'm like, oily now.

[A]

That's more like.

[B]

Oily is like, you've got so greasy right now.

[A]

Not. You are totally covered. Lipstick or lip gloss?

[B]

Gloss.

[A]

Nice. AM or PM routine?

[B]

AM is shorter. Yeah.

[A]

I agree. Space and chaos. Sephora. Oh. Oh, Sephora in the USA or here?

[B]

Usa.

[A]

Yeah. Makeup brush or makeup sponge?

[B]

I'm erring towards sponge.

[A]

Are you? I don't know if we've had a.

[B]

Sponge the whole series because I'm. I'm learning how to use the sponge and actually, I think because you can wet the sponge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you put your foundation on and I find the foundation sits better. That's true.

[A]

Ava uses a sponge and wets it and makeup's always flawless, which is really annoying. Okay, great. Fine. City Break or Country Escape?

[B]

City Bright.

[A]

Shopping online or shopping in store?

[B]

In store if it's somewhere fancy. Because when it's not, I don't like it.

[A]

No. Do I?

[B]

But the problem with online is I forget to send stuff back.

[A]

I think the problem with online is it's not. Doesn't feel like real money. Whereas if you're in a store and you have to go, here is my money, you're going to be way more like, oh. But online, you're just like, oh, I can order. I can send it. Back to your point.

[B]

Yeah. I Mean, I don't like super expensive stuff.

[A]

No.

[B]

And it will sit there like, Shannon, you need to take that back. You need to take that back. You need to take that back. It's like.

[A]

Oh. And it's not like Westfield is across the road from the office, but, you know.

[B]

All right, Caroline, I'm gonna have to, like, pull some cold water on me because you've burnt me pretty badly right there.

[A]

Right. Dogs or cats?

[B]

Oh, you don't have to say either. I will say I'm not a fan.

[A]

Of a bird in a zoo in a cage that you can look at and walk away.

[B]

Can I say goldfish?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, you can. Sweet or savory?

[B]

Savory.

[A]

Salty.

[B]

I will eat the whole of starter menu and leave the dessert menu.

[A]

Any day. Any day. Heels or flats?

[B]

Heels.

[A]

Really?

[B]

But not for very long.

[A]

Yeah, like 40 minutes.

[B]

I'll take a picture in heels.

[A]

Yeah, Take a picture, post it. And then trainers on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Shoes or bags?

[B]

I'm really getting into bags.

[A]

Bags.

[B]

But I think that's come with age.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

And that is actually Jill Scott, who I was in the jungle with, obviously former England player, her fiance, Shelley.

[A]

How was that? I mean, Jill Scott, I. I call that woman legend. And Jill Scott, please come and do the pod.

[B]

I. Oh, she's amazing. And I spent a lot of time with Shelly when I came out the jungle. Yeah, Shelly spent a lot of time convince me that I needed a designer bag in my life. A lot of time.

[A]

I like you, Shelley.

[B]

She went in, she was committed to convincing me I needed it in my life. It did work, and I absolutely loved it. And then I understood why. And I have bought a couple more since then, and Shelley is very, very proud.

[A]

Well done. Well done, Shelley. Taking one for all women everywhere. Making sure you get a decent handbag. Night in or night out?

[B]

Night out, really, to get away from.

[A]

The kids or just because you want to socialize?

[B]

Just. I want to dance.

[A]

Oh, in the heels for 20 minutes.

[B]

No, but not. Dude. Like, I can't. I can't do raving all night in. In hills anymore.

[A]

No.

[B]

And I feel like the young people have made it acceptable to wear trainers out.

[A]

They have. God bless them. So best thing they've done.

[B]

God bless the.

[A]

God bless them all. Flat shoes and trainers and so just.

[B]

With, like, a great dj, awesome music with the girlies. Like, old school R and B, old school hip hop, and just like a big, big, big night out where I don't have to go home to my children and wake up early in the Morning.

[A]

Yeah. Or have me in your head saying, make sure you cleanse your face before you go to sleep.

[B]

Oh, I always cleanse my face before I go to sleep. You know, when people get my sisters like this, I like FaceTime. And I'm like, have you still got makeup on? Oh, it was such a big night, I forgot to take it off. Oh, my God. There doesn't exist a big night in the world where I will forget to take my makeup.

[A]

No, it's coming off. If I have to crawl to that bathroom, throw up, and then take it off, that's what I'm doing.

[B]

Your face and all that dirt.

[A]

No. Grim. Agreed. Nando's or Waggers?

[B]

Nandos.

[A]

I know, but I decided to ask extra hot. Really?

[B]

With the X sauce and the black bottle lat on top.

[A]

You savage.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Wow, that's impressive. I can't go above a medium myself. Pathetic. Don't laugh at me. Charlene White, she's choking on her water. Here. For those of you at home, I.

[B]

Mean, that's like a. Well, at least, like a grain of spice.

[A]

Okay. At least. You know what? Yeah. At least to my defense, I didn't say, oh, lemon and herb.

[B]

Well, I'd have to walk out, so at least she didn't say, danny, our.

[A]

Very pregnant producer, eats Nando's like, five times a week and has lemon and herb.

[B]

Lemon, Danny.

[A]

Only if it's wings.

[B]

Oh, my God. That's like, 10 times worse. You can't do wings, lemon and herb. Oh, my God.

[A]

Do you see what I have to put up with?

[B]

I'm gobsmacked right now. Wings have to have a bit of spice in. If you're from South London, it's all about Morley's. Morley's is well seasoned, a little bit of spicing.

[A]

You know, you've got sauce to cool it. Do you need. Do you do a ranch or a blue cheese?

[B]

Sorry, are you not aware of wings etiquette?

[A]

Sorry, didn't want to offend you.

[B]

Dirty fingers.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

There is no dipping. It's. It's the oil, it's the spice. It's everything. And then, you know, you just put it in your mouth and then. Boneless or bone, I swear to God, I'm gonna leave.

[A]

I know, I know. It's boned. I'm just making sure that you can clarify that. It's.

[B]

Dare you ask me such a question?

[A]

And I feel a bit like I've just.

[B]

Do I eat boneless chicken?

[A]

Someone has just asked me, do you own a cleanser? I Get the. I get it. I get the outrage.

[B]

I mean, the fact they even exist on a menu.

[A]

It is a bit weird.

[B]

Disgusting to me.

[A]

Where. Why. Why wouldn't you go. And there's the bone.

[B]

Because also, it's the joy of taking that little morsel of chicken that's still.

[A]

On the teeny bit at the end and just taking it and so, just.

[B]

To clarify, I have, like, broken a couple crowns by eating that tiny bit at the end bit. I have cracked a couple now.

[A]

Who's laughing?

[B]

But I keep going.

[A]

So Morley's super hot. No dipping sauce.

[B]

No. Yeah, yeah, Morley's. I'll be a Morley's girl till I die. No dipping sauce. Lots of spice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can eat, like, a box of wings and no chips.

[A]

Oh, I don't care about the chips ever. I'm all about the protein and the wings and the chicken.

[B]

Good with that.

[A]

So just to go further here, because it's a very important series, obviously. When you're in the States and they bring you wings and they put blue cheese down next to it, what do you do with that? Do you get as offended as I've offended you, or did you just take a deep breath and just ignore it?

[B]

The thing is, is, you know, I. I can't. I don't like wings in the States.

[A]

Ah, interesting.

[B]

Too salty, really. You know, they're the. Whatever that red sauce is that they cook everything in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For me. Ruins the taste of a wing because then you have to use the blue cheese dipping sauce to get flavor, counteract the salt. I don't. It's not for me. I controversially feel that the British make the best wings.

[A]

I don't think that's controversial.

[B]

I love that. Yeah. But wings. Wings are a big basket of wings on, like, game day in the States is a massive thing. I just don't think they do it very well.

[A]

There's a lot of things they don't do well that they think they do. Yeah.

[B]

And it's like, you don't need, like, a bucket of salt on everything because I want to actually taste the spice.

[A]

Ranch dressing. Rank. Rank Sonnet is everywhere. You want ranch? No, I'd like some flavour. Thank you very much.

[B]

Can you just, like, flavour stuff?

[A]

And the bread, I mean, I think.

[B]

It'S a push to actually call it bread.

[A]

It's just like a mix of ingredients that looks white. Yeah. Okay, great. Final question. I feel like this could be contentious, but we'll see. What's your favourite sandwich?

[B]

My favourite sandwich is prawns. Prawn Mayo.

[A]

I'm already dead. Cause I've got an allergy. But carry on.

[B]

And ready salted crisps. It is not unheard for which Ready salted crisp Walker's.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, the questioning is.

[A]

I just want to make sure.

[B]

Okay. But it's not unusual for me to be sat in the big grown up job at the Nunes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With me having been to co op.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bought the prawn mayonnaise sandwich. My walk is Chris.

[A]

Chris.

[B]

And smiled at me and sat like talking to Tom Bradby. Really? They're big important. Tom Bradby opening up my prawn. My prawn sandwich. Putting crisps in and having a conversation. Yes, Tom. No, I do completely understand crunch. And eating it while I'm talking to him. Because.

[A]

Nice. Because you can.

[B]

Because I can.

[A]

Because I am that.

[B]

And there's a part of me that will forever be a child. And I love that about prawn cocktail and crisps.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

It's a great combo. I mean, I know it will kill.

[A]

You, but I love to prawn and a shrimp and all of that until I hit like 40. And I got an allergy out of nowhere.

[B]

But do you agree with adding crisps to a sandwich?

[A]

Of course. Yes, it should be the law. Yes, it should be the law. And I get really offended if people. If I don't. If I. If they don't eat it and they don't squash it down. You have to squash it down. You have to get that. And you have to have the bread, like, poked by the crisps. And that's the whole point of it.

[B]

With a lovely layer. Proper layer of butter.

[A]

See? See?

[B]

It's perfect.

[A]

Favorite sandwich. So no one has seen that question because obviously we're filming before we air anything. So next season I'm gonna have to get a new question. But what's your favorite sandwich? Has caused a lot of conversation.

[B]

Oh. And what constitutes a sandwich?

[A]

And when people say that, like, they really enjoy the big posh things at Gale's, I'm like, no, you don't. That's like two big loaves of bread with a bit of rocket in it.

[B]

In your opinion, I'm gonna throw a question to you.

[A]

I love this.

[B]

What is the elite biscuit?

[A]

Don't want to offend you, but I could live the rest of my life and never eat another biscuit.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

You said you were savory. Don't throw me under a bus.

[B]

No, but there are still elite biscuits. Mine is a custard cream.

[A]

I could do a custard cream.

[B]

So someone at work the other day was like a bourbon. What? I mean, you eat it and you have to keep drinking water because it's so down the throat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They're like, no, no, that's the elite biscuit. It's really not.

[A]

It's really not at all. I like maybe a fresh out the oven chocolate chip cookie. That's kind of still a bit melty.

[B]

It's cookie, not biscuit.

[A]

Okay. No. All right, how's this then? A pink wafer.

[B]

No, I don't think that's technically a biscuit.

[A]

I think you'll find that's where it's sold in the shops. It's in the biscuit section.

[B]

Charlie doesn't make it a biscuit there. Caroline.

[A]

So what else?

[B]

What, a wafer can't be a biscuit?

[A]

So what's my.

[B]

What's like Bourbon Cobnobs?

[A]

No.

[B]

Digestive. Digestive. Chocolate digestive? No. Let me think. What else?

[A]

What about the Marks and Spencer's ones where it's like a thick layer of chocolate with a little bit of biscuit inside it and you almost break your teeth on how much chocolate?

[B]

Not a biscuit. What is it, then? So we've also got. I'm thinking of a variety box. You know when you sort of have like. Oh, is it a gardo g that.

[A]

Has, like the raisins. Raisins should never be. Yeah, but it's disgusting.

[B]

But it is a biscuit. You've got like, short. No, shortbread biscuits. Biscuit. I don't like them too much. Too sugary for me. Too sugar. I can keep on going.

[A]

But none of them are biscuits that you are. You said that I like. So I'm just going to stick with my pink wafer, thanks very much.

[B]

Not a biscuit.

[A]

I'm going to take a picture of pink wafer in the biscuit section at Sainsbury's next time I'm in on Sunday. Oh, gosh.

[B]

But it doesn't seem like a Jaffa Cake is not a biscuit.

[A]

No, that's a pudding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's also disgusting.

[B]

Wow. Also true. Yeah, disgusting.

[A]

Well, thank you so much because I now I'm very confused about what biscuit I actually like. But I'm glad we can agree that crisps and a sandwich is the way forward.

[B]

Yeah, we found unity there.

[A]

Yeah. Charlene, thank you. What a pleasure you absolutely. Follow us. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Glad we had this chat. Is produced by Wall to Wall Sat.