S2 Ep23: Takes New York with Nykita Joy

Summary

Podcast Title: Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons
Episode: Season 2, Episode 23: Glad We Had This Chat Takes New York - 'Neo It Girl' Nikita Joy
Host: Caroline Hirons
Guest: Nikita Joy (Neo It Girl)
Release Date: January 27, 2025

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Introduction

In Season 2, Episode 23 of Glad We Had This Chat, Caroline Hirons welcomes Nikita Joy, known as "Neo It Girl," for an engaging and heartfelt conversation set against the vibrant backdrop of New York City. The episode delves deep into Nikita's personal journey, her struggles and triumphs, and her insights into the beauty and skincare industry.

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Guest Background

Nikita Joy is a prominent figure in the beauty and skincare space, known for her authentic and influential presence on platforms like TikTok. Described by Caroline as someone she has followed since Caroline's YouTube beginnings, Nikita brings a wealth of experience from her time as a makeup artist and her transition journey.

Notable Quote:

Caroline Hirons [02:03]: "You have gagged me ever since. Ever."

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Personal Journey

Nikita's path to becoming Neo It Girl is both inspiring and poignant. Two years prior, the loss of her mother profoundly impacted her, leading her to seek solace in makeup as a therapeutic outlet. Her journey encompasses overcoming personal challenges, including issues related to gender affirmation and the financial burdens associated with it.

Key Points:

• Early Career: Started on the retail shop floor, working in retail beauty during college.
• Transition Journey: Faced significant challenges, including interruptions in her gender-affirming procedures due to insurance issues, leading her to hustle on TikTok to fund her treatments.
• Relocation to New York: Moved to New York with Sephora, eventually pivoting to building her private client base and engaging in the modeling industry before the COVID-19 pandemic.

Notable Quote:

Nikita Joy [03:38]: "It was honestly like what got me into this chair was two years ago my mom died and I was like, so sad... I made so much commission from all of the knowledge you gave me."
Caroline Hirons [04:06]: "Customer service in any kind of service industry."

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Skincare and Beauty Insights

Both Caroline and Nikita share their extensive knowledge on skincare routines, product preferences, and makeup techniques. Nikita emphasizes the importance of a solid foundation in skincare, advocating for simplicity and effectiveness over an overwhelming array of products.

Skincare Routine:

• Double Cleansing: Utilizes the Mehron Blank Canvas cleansing balm for removing heavy makeup, followed by Caroline's cream cleanser.
• Acids: Incorporates P50 and control acid for exfoliation.
• Moisturizer and SPF: Focuses on barrier repair moisturizers and high SPF, favoring European or Korean sunscreens for their lightweight feel.

Makeup Tips:

• Finishing Powder: Differentiates between setting and finishing powders, recommending brands like Hourglass and Laura Mercier for a luminous finish.
• Mascara Techniques: Shares her multi-step mascara application to achieve long-lasting curls and volume without smudging.

Notable Quotes:

Nikita Joy [26:14]: "I follow biblically, the word of Caroline Hirons, so I am double cleansing."
Caroline Hirons [35:57]: "Which one?"
Nikita Joy [35:59]: "Makeup Forever has released the Digital Complexion Fluid foundation, which in my opinion, might be one of the best fluid foundations ever."

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Challenges and Triumphs

Nikita candidly discusses her struggles with managing her identity and the impact of hormone replacement therapy on her skin, specifically hyperpigmentation. She also touches upon the emotional toll of societal expectations and the importance of self-acceptance.

Key Points:

• Hyperpigmentation: Hormone therapy increases susceptibility to sunspots and melasma. Treatments include the use of retinoids and strict SPF adherence.
• Breakouts: Differentiates between various types of breakouts and emphasizes targeted treatments based on the underlying cause.
• Industry Standards: Critiques the cleanliness and management standards in major beauty retailers like Sephora, advocating for higher standards and more inclusive practices.

Notable Quotes:

Nikita Joy [62:45]: "Hormone replacement therapy makes trans femmes and trans women specifically, like more prone to hyperpigmentation."
Caroline Hirons [63:02]: "You have the passion and you have the need to just like, be an artist. There's nothing you can't do."

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Industry Observations

Both Caroline and Nikita express their thoughts on the current state of the beauty industry, highlighting issues such as poor store management, the overwhelming number of product launches, and the need for sincerity and expertise in beauty consultations.

Key Points:

• Retail Management: Criticizes the messy state of Sephora stores, advocating for better cleanliness and organization.
• Product Overload: Discusses the saturation of the market with redundant products and the importance of quality over quantity.
• Inclusivity and Standards: Calls for beauty retailers to hire knowledgeable consultants who can maintain high standards and provide genuine assistance to customers.

Notable Quotes:

Caroline Hirons [57:53]: "Listen to people who know. We do both. Men who are funding you, white men in suits. I cannot."
Nikita Joy [58:44]: "Management is making everyone want to leave. No one loves their job anymore."

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Rapid-Fire Questions

Towards the end of the episode, Caroline and Nikita engage in a rapid-fire segment, answering quick questions that reveal more about Nikita's personal preferences and habits.

Highlights:

• Bold Eye or Bold Lip: Nikita chooses both, layering her lipstick with translucent powder and gloss for longevity.
• Dewy or Matte Skin: Prefers dewy skin.
• City Break or Country Escape: Chooses a country escape despite her city-centric lifestyle.
• Cats or Dogs: Definitely a cat person.
• Savory or Sweet: Savory.
• Heels or Flats: Always heels.
• Shoes or Bags: Prefers shoes, especially her beloved brush collection.
• Quick Skincare Picks: Emphasizes basics like P50, retinol, and SPF.

Notable Quotes:

Caroline Hirons [49:31]: "Bold eye or bold lip?"
Nikita Joy [49:33]: "Bold lip."
Caroline Hirons [56:12]: "Neo It Girl is a compilation of all the words that were used against me growing up."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with heartfelt appreciation between Caroline and Nikita. They discuss future collaborations and the potential for new projects in 2025. Nikita expresses her gratitude for Caroline's mentorship and the platform she provides, while Caroline commends Nikita's resilience and authenticity.

Notable Quotes:

Caroline Hirons [69:13]: "Follow your light and it will lead you everywhere."
Nikita Joy [69:17]: "Thank you so much. Love you."

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Final Thoughts

Season 2, Episode 23 of Glad We Had This Chat offers a profound look into Nikita Joy's life, her unwavering passion for beauty, and her journey through personal and professional challenges. Caroline Hirons provides a nurturing and insightful environment, making the episode both inspiring and informative for listeners seeking authentic discussions on beauty and skincare.

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Stay Connected with Caroline Hirons:

• Instagram
• Website
• Skin Rocks
• YouTube
• TikTok

Subscribe: Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

[Caroline Hirons]

Strap yourselves in people. I'm going on tour for the first time ever and I am so here for it. Bringing our wild and wonderful Glad we had this chat podcast to a venue near you. Promising you an unforgettable night of unbridled honesty, unfiltered opinions, F bombs and fearlessness. Come join me and a stellar lineup of special guests as we talk all things skincare and beauty, along with frank discussions about life's adventures, challenges, highlights and joys. With exclusive on stage skincare demos, entertaining Q&As and a healthy dose of unscript popularity. This is Caroline Hirons, Me live and apparently on steroids. It's happening. Get your tickets [e-mail] and secure your spot. Welcome back to Glad we had this Chat and welcome to our season two special. Glad we had this Chat Takes New York. I mean, I can't go all the way to the Big Apple and not hit up my friends old and new. Can I sort grab a brew, pull up a chair or put your headphones on and go for a run? However you listen to your podcasts, stay tuned to find out who we meet up with stateside and what they have to say. My guest today is someone that I am beyond thrilled to have on the pod. She is someone I followed for a long time on Tik Tok. She was one of my first follows. She is beautiful, she is super smart, she is incredibly influential in the most positive way. Please join me in welcoming Neo It Girl, AKA Nikita to the pod. Nikita Joy, how are you?

[Nikita Joy]

Hello, darling.

[Caroline Hirons]

What is that noise?

[Nikita Joy]

That is the sound of New York, New Yorking.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow.

[Nikita Joy]

That's the subway underneath us.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's not the subway. No, we didn't have that yesterday.

[Nikita Joy]

It has to be underneath us now.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's above. Above. Oh my God. You're actually sitting opposite me.

[Nikita Joy]

I can. I am tickled to be here. I'm gooped. This is truly a surreal experience to be.

[Caroline Hirons]

I can't even. When you walked in, we both just went.

[Nikita Joy]

I literally. I. You have gagged me ever since. Ever. I mean, I have been in the Caroline Hirons corner of the Internet since your YouTube beginnings. I could credit you with so much. I. I made so much commission from all of the knowledge you gave me.

[Caroline Hirons]

I get your DOL. You get your dollar.

[Nikita Joy]

Honey, I got my 2%. And like. And then once you started shouting me out on Instagram Lives, I was like, what the.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, I got sent your clip. Firstly, thank you for pronouncing my name correctly because no one does. And you did from day one. But someone sent me the clip of you going, thank you, Caroline Hiring's goddess icon. And I was just like, oh, I love this.

[Nikita Joy]

Change my life. You are the reason I have good, good skin. You are the reason you're just. It truly is surreal to be here. Like, I'm just so grateful and.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, I don't see you on many podcasts, so thank you for saying yes.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh my God. I. There is nothing that would have kept me from this chair.

[Caroline Hirons]

So how are you?

[Nikita Joy]

I'm stunning.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, I know that I'm not feeling stunning. I'm feeling quite just thrown together at this point because I'm in my third time zone in six days. But it's fine. I'm not going to complain. Look what I'm doing for a living with you. I don't want to start at the beginning because I'm not Julie Andrews, you know, let's start at the very beginning. But tell me how you got to. Like, we're sitting here because it, it seems like. I mean, it might not seem it to you, but it seems like it's been fairly quick. Okay, what was the.

[Nikita Joy]

Like that boom.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, suddenly this is me on tick tock.

[Nikita Joy]

I mean, it's kind of a depressing story. So book your seatbelt.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Nikita Joy]

It was honestly like what got me into this chair was two years ago my mom died and I was like, so sad. And I was like. I had been a makeup artist my entire life. I worked at the counter and stuff. And it was like, that is the.

[Caroline Hirons]

Common denominator with everyone. So you started on the shop floor?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, I started working retail in college or the shop floor is, I guess.

[Caroline Hirons]

All the best people do.

[Nikita Joy]

I think so. And I think everyone, absolutely everyone should do it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Customer service in any kind of service industry.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, absolutely. It is. I mean, I did eight faces a day for more years than I can count. And I feel like that is why.

[Caroline Hirons]

For what brand?

[Nikita Joy]

For. I mean. Well, I'm the first. I'm not going to say just because.

[Caroline Hirons]

We don't want to give them the price.

[Nikita Joy]

I don't want to give them the price.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't have that a lot people like you worked with. I'm like, there's someone don't mention. Cuz frankly, they don't need my press.

[Nikita Joy]

Well, it's. Yeah, I mean, and that's a funny story in itself because I was let go because of trans reasons and. But now I work with them. And so it's.

[Caroline Hirons]

You're going to have to Tell me this afterwards, because I have a list.

[Nikita Joy]

And then after that happened, I left the shop floor and I went to Sephora in college, and I just worked there throughout college. Eight faces a day for.

[Caroline Hirons]

What did you do at college?

[Nikita Joy]

I went for. Well, I kind of bopped around. I went for psych and women and gender studies. And then I was like, this is just. I can't.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm sorry. You confused me. I'm not doing this.

[Nikita Joy]

Just can't. I was like, I'm gonna be a therapist. I'm like, no, I can't listen to people's trauma.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, it just.

[Nikita Joy]

It's a lot. It's a lot. I can't do it.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's like being a facialist. It is like being a therapist, literally, that they lie down and it's like hairdressers, manicurists, facialist, body massage. You're a therapist, Truthfully. And so you already were a therapist because you're a makeup artist. I guess as soon as people are touching you in an intimate fashion, just.

[Nikita Joy]

Let it fall out.

[Caroline Hirons]

Words. Cheating on me. I'm cheating on my husband. Like, I knew. I've known. When people have had severe illnesses and pregnancies before, immediate family, we're the first to know. You can't use that on me. I'm pregnant. I'm like, ah. No one knows. Okay.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay. Literally no reaction. So the reaction. But carry on. I'm excited. I'm interrupting. I'm gonna shut up.

[Nikita Joy]

You're so fine. You're so fine. So I worked in college. Eight faces a day. And then I dropped out of school because I was like, I can't. I can't do this. I was just so.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's like, all my kids. I'm so true.

[Nikita Joy]

Well, it's true. I was just. I was so consumed. Again, there's just so much traumatic lore here. It was really just like a time in my life where I. I couldn't manage being forced to go to school because it wasn't my just decision. I didn't want to go to school. I was like, I want to transition. And then after, like, I'll be done. I was one of the people who, like. I knew who I was when I was like 4 years old and, like, had to fight the adults my entire life.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you're tired from doing.

[Nikita Joy]

I was exhausted. I wasn't allowed, like, the puberty blockers growing up. And so I was just, like. It was to the point where I was like, I. If I cannot fix, fix, quote, unquote, like, the way that I feel in my body, then I'm like, I'm tapping out. Like, I can't do this. So I dropped out of college. And then that was when my mom really got on board, and she was like, okay, we're to help you. Like, we're going to, like, do what we can to, like, help you. And so I got in the psychiatrist office, and I, you know, started the process. And that was when I started. I was like, okay, well, I need a job. So I just kept doing glam. And after I dropped out of college, I moved to New York. Ended up moving with Sephora. They moved me up here, and I actually worked at 34th Street Herald Square, which is, like, just down the block from where we're filming this, which is, like, kind of weird to be back here.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

Worked there for a while. And then I started doing, like, the actual hustle of the makeup game because, you know, everyone was leaving retail, and it's just, you know, turnover. And so it was my time to go. And I started, like, just doing the hustle of all private clients. I did fashion weeks. I just was doing everything that I could. And then I got a call for a test shoot, like, two years in that was, like, not paid for. And I was like, God, I don't want to do this. And then my mom was like, no, you should go. You never know. And I ended up going. And I. At that time, I was, like, painting the models, and I was kind of, like, not resenting them, but I was a little jealous. I was like, I want to be in this chair. I don't want to be painting you. No offense. Like, I want to be the one who is, like, doing the shoot. Yeah. And, like, I had always. I grew up with the fashion channel. I watched it, like, at. When everyone was asleep at 2am like, it was the one thing that really kept me going. And I just had always had the delusional dream of one day doing the fashion thing. And so I showed up to this shoot that was unpaid for, that I didn't want to go to that. My mom said, you never know. And I had a manager. My first manager who signed me as a model, found me there, and he was like, what are you doing? And he signed me the next day, and I dropped out, and I stopped and I modeled for two years. And then Covid hit, and then now we're just like. That was when, to answer your question, everything sort of happened.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. And did you just start doing Get Ready with Me's? And how did TikTok I started doing.

[Nikita Joy]

Well, I started doing ironically again. Access to gender affairs affirming care has kind of, like, been a constant through my life. And so I was set to do a gender affirming procedure that the doctor ended up going out of network in the new year. And so I was stuck with $60,000 that I didn't know how to pay. And so I started doing tarot cards on TikTok, and people would just, like, send tips to my. To my Venmo and to my cash app.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow.

[Nikita Joy]

And I raised. Not all of it, but I raised most of it. And I went and I. You know, I did my procedure, and then after that, my mom died, and I was like, wow, I'm really sad. I'm just gonna do my makeup online because makeup has always been, like, my therapeutic catharsis. And that was when it just sort of happened. So I've just been posting one video a day for. I mean, I posted one video a day for a year, and now we're here. Wow. Wild.

[Caroline Hirons]

Tis wild. Yeah, like four years. Ish.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, Ish. Never would have.

[Caroline Hirons]

And tarot.

[Nikita Joy]

Any of it. Yeah. Literally. So funny. I grew up in a haunted house. Growing up.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, my God.

[Nikita Joy]

And, like, there was, like, some scary stuff that happened. And finally something happened that my mom was like, oh, no, you're actually not lying. And so we went to the one witch in our, like, small town, and she came over and, like, saged the house and stuff. And then she was actually who I started doing, like, tarot with her. And that was just sort of what got me into it at a young age. And I just had. It's always been, like, my own little hobby.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you like astrology, don't you?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, I do.

[Caroline Hirons]

Ava's obsessed with astrology. She'll just sit and tell you everything about yourself. What's your rising? What's your moon? What's your d D She.

[Nikita Joy]

I need to get in a room and just.

[Caroline Hirons]

You really. I don't know if the world is ready.

[Nikita Joy]

I want to see your chart. What's your sign?

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, okay. So I'm Leo.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, well, there.

[Caroline Hirons]

Sag Moon.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, Sag Rising.

[Caroline Hirons]

Stunning Gemini rising.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, women. Geminis are the best, by the way. Y'all are so smart.

[Caroline Hirons]

So now. Now you're doing TikTok.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

How has life significantly changed?

[Nikita Joy]

It's honestly so wild. I never expected the online community welcoming. I. I have never had a single problem. I have the best corner on the Internet. I say it all the time. I literally love you guys. If you're watching this. I've never had a problem. If anyone comes over to give me a problem, they're the first one to handle it. Yeah. And that community has been like such a gift to me. And then everything that comes along with it, I, TikTok has now funded, like me finalizing the rest of my transition. I mean, I transitioned in a time where healthcare didn't cover anything. So, like, it's been a 10, 12 year process to be able to get here.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's just so bad and so sad that it can take so long.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, well, it's, you know, there's so many reasons why I could say that I just prefer to fund it all myself just now with the providers. And I don't want to scare anyone by saying this, but like, sometimes it is best to go out of network and sometimes the best decision you can is to like, save up for the right person to do it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

And that's just why it's taking me so long to get here.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

And now TikTok has made wrapping up all of my loose ends just like seamless. That's so incredibly grateful.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's phenomenal.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

But I think that comes across on screen. What comes across on screen is so genuine and that you are so who you are supposed to be.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, thank you.

[Caroline Hirons]

That you couldn't take another view unless you're a dick.

[Nikita Joy]

Well, yeah, you know, and who cares? Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like the person yesterday that said in my comments, I mean, what'd they say? He's. He said something like, covering up your body. Why are you covering up? You're a sexy woman. You shouldn't be wearing these jeans. Women who encourage other women to cover their bodies is a form of self hatred or something. And I went, hey, Jules, this may come as. I know this might be astonishing to you, but I don't dress for men.

[Nikita Joy]

Hello.

[Caroline Hirons]

I dress for me. And that is far more empowering a message to send to anyone that follows me than following men.

[Nikita Joy]

Say it. And when men figure that out, they're gonna lose their minds.

[Caroline Hirons]

Bless them. Bless their hearts.

[Nikita Joy]

We are not here for you.

[Caroline Hirons]

Shocking, I know.

[Nikita Joy]

I literally do not care what you have to say.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, why are you still talking?

[Nikita Joy]

Please shut up.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean, when I did the whole, when I was talking about being like pro choice and everything and you know, you just get people who drop into the, into your comment section. I'm like, I'm sorry, but you're in the wrong place.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally.

[Caroline Hirons]

Here's how little I care about what you have to say. This is not A nuanced issue. No, this is black and white.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And equally, if you do not have a vagina and you're a, you know, you present as a male and you are a man for a biological male. And Frank, frankly, a middle aged white one who's a Christian. Get the fuck away from me.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally, like, I was trying to get.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, get all the right nuances in there.

[Nikita Joy]

No, you got there, you got there, you got.

[Caroline Hirons]

I was like, yeah, you got there.

[Nikita Joy]

And I'm here to say, super glue that mouth closed, please.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you. Like, literally keep your, you know, rosaries out of our ovaries.

[Nikita Joy]

Hello. I will. This tangent, we can't get into it, but, like, we're terrified where the world is going.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, at least at the same time. And it always seems to be swings and roundabouts, as we would say. At least while you are swinging over here, we've swung left, which could be problematic for us because they don't really get on. So we'll see. But we've been here before. That's what I say. Okay, We've been here before.

[Nikita Joy]

I.

[Caroline Hirons]

We've been here before. Trust you on that one because, like, abortion's gone.

[Nikita Joy]

How did we get here? Like, how.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I've been saying to people for years, they're going to reverse Roe versus Wade. They're going to reverse it. And I was like, not in my. I'm like, I'm telling you, literally, they are. It's a. The first thing they're gonna do because it keeps women out of the employment chain and it keeps poor working class women of color poor.

[Nikita Joy]

Say it. Literally.

[Caroline Hirons]

So this is why. And they. The Tories. I'm so glad they're out because they had started to have similar conversations. And I was like, I will set you on fire. I will set you on fire. If you think I'm going to leave this earth with my granddaughter having fewer rights than I did, don't. With menopausal women because we will set flights and I will happily go to jail.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally.

[Caroline Hirons]

I can take care of myself in prison. It's fine.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, and you would look stunning in prison, by the way.

[Caroline Hirons]

Orange would look like orange. I like orange, but I don't think it's orange in the uk. So I might have to work on it and go to prison here.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, you know what?

[Caroline Hirons]

And they'd like me.

[Nikita Joy]

I'd have a good prison together.

[Caroline Hirons]

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[Nikita Joy]

Beauty.

[Caroline Hirons]

Where did the beauty start? What's your earliest memories of thinking like? Because most, I think most of us, it's like if we have a nice relationship with our parents, it's like mine is like my mother, my grandmother, the smells, Chanel number five, Elnet Hairspray, a red lip.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, totally. Mine is so funny.

[Caroline Hirons]

So you were exactly raised in New York?

[Nikita Joy]

No, I was raised. Well, I was born on a farm and then I was raised in. On another farm that was in a very conservative area.

[Caroline Hirons]

How hard was that for you? Because if you've known Winston, Chua could remember.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

How hard not to go down a trauma road. This is not Diary of a CEO. I'm not gonna make anyone cry.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, totally not. You're totally fine. It was. I'm not gonna, like, sugarcoat it. It was really hard. I, like, I wanted to go multiple times. I was and was like ready to do it. And like. And we were kind of secluded. Like, I drove an hour to school. And so it was like. It was kind of like a very quiet life. And I always genuinely wanted more for myself. But I feel like my earliest memory of beauty was we used to carpool with this one girl. She was one of my sister's friends. Her name was Liz, and she had long, beautiful, blonde, straight hair. You just knew Liz was Yes, literally. And it was, I am Liz. Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

Liz is not like, you know, brown. Brown hair. No.

[Nikita Joy]

Liz was ready for a transformation. And so, and so it was the three of us in the backseat. And my sister is not a. She's not a glam girl. She has worn makeup maybe twice in her entire life. She's old enough than me. And so I wasn't able to do her hair, but Liz would let me do her hair every day in the car. And so I would do little plaits, as they're called in the uk, or braids, and I would just style her hair. And that was like my first like, okay, yes, this is like really feeling good to me because my sister and my mom were not like glamorous. They were gorgeous, but like, they're not like glam girls like me. And so I didn't really grow up with that feminine example. And so I kind of like my journey to beauty really came from like searching for that example. And I started watching Fashion Channel. Growing up at like 2 in the.

[Caroline Hirons]

Morning, that was a random channel, wasn't it? Rent. That it was. Fashion Channel was just like endless TVs of fashion shows.

[Nikita Joy]

And that's all I could have ever asked for. And so like that scene, knowing that that existed like that glamorous gorgeousness existed on a Runway, I was like, I need, I need this. And that was really sort of like what secured it. And then I once, I was 16 and had a car and I had a job to pay for stuff. That was when I was like, oh, I'm going to Ulta. I'm going to Sally Beauty.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, Sally hardcore. Straight to the wholesaler.

[Nikita Joy]

Exactly. And so I really just, I had no idea what I was doing other than like, I knew that I needed to feel like myself. And like when I was growing up, I only had access to my mom's five products that were in her, you know, bathroom cabinet, her one mocha eyeshadow and her one brow pencil and her one eyeliner. And so like, I didn't have much to play with. And so the second I turned 16, I was like, I'm gonna play. And then that just literally grew. I'm, I never went to formal training. I'm self taught. It was just like, it was just like the eagerness to learn. And then I feel like once I like started actually to commit myself to like transitioning as a teenager, I felt very unsafe where I was. So it was something like I, I needed beauty to survival.

[Caroline Hirons]

You have to get out.

[Nikita Joy]

I needed to like, it was People were not kind there, and, like, people would do some pretty, like, heinous things. So I was like, I. To feel safer in myself. I. That was really sort of, like, what got me really sort of into super drive of, like, okay, I'm going to be a glam girl. I need to feel safe. And then that just years later after that, all compounded on itself. Now I'm just a glam girl.

[Caroline Hirons]

And how did you get to New York? How did you get out? Was New York where you went?

[Nikita Joy]

I. Well, I was in Florida at the time, and when I was working for Sephora, I. There was a job that opened in New York, and I had a stunning manager who believed in me. Yeah, we did. I don't know if it's still around, but Sephora has these things called classes for confidence, and they have, like, makeup classes for, like, cancer survivors and people who have gotten out of domestic abuse situations. And this was before COVID I'm not sure if it's still around, but they wanted to do a trans class. And so the store that I was in got to be the pilot because I was leading the class. And so through that experience, my manager saw that. She was like, oh, she can do this. And so she put my name in for the job, and I got hired, and I moved up to New York.

[Caroline Hirons]

And the rest.

[Nikita Joy]

And the rest is history. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow.

[Nikita Joy]

Thank you. My love you.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you're still in touch?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, we follow each other on Instagram all the time. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

She must be like, I did that.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm gonna take my credit.

[Nikita Joy]

I truly and honestly, she is the reason I'm here, so love her.

[Caroline Hirons]

And where is your beauty journey now? Because you are. When you're online, you're educational as well as fun and get ready with me and that kind of thing. So you've got. It's you as you're talking. It's not. This is. This is me just putting it. This is why I'm doing this, and I'm doing this. And what do we think of this? And where did that side come from? Is that from being on the shop floor, do you think?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, it was kind of ingrained. It was beaten into us, actually, that, like, obviously, when you're applying makeup, like, your job is to sell. It's not to apply a beautiful face. It's to sell and build a basket. And so, like, we were trained to speak to every step, every second of the makeup application to get them to buy product. And so, like, and we had our bosses would, like, make sure that we Were talking for the entire 45 minute to an hour application. And so I just became really good at speaking to product. And so now it's just like literally second nature. If I'm not talking about it, what do I do?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

Makes sense.

[Caroline Hirons]

Don't you find?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I could touch something.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally, I'm like 100. It just opens the trap door. And I don't even know what I'm saying half time. But I think people find it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Shop floor is a different level of training because when you're taught makeup.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Even in a school, you very rarely get your hands on a lot of different colors of faces.

[Nikita Joy]

Exactly. And like. And also to do one type of.

[Caroline Hirons]

Type and skin type, but retail, it's an open door. You have to do whatever walks through that door.

[Nikita Joy]

Exactly.

[Caroline Hirons]

Skin, face, hair, no matter what they.

[Nikita Joy]

Want, even if it's not what you think will look good, you have to learn how to like, adjust and acclimate to them. And it's all about what they want. And so. And that's something I also think that has made me really like keen in on or hone in on Product knowledge is like just hearing what people like and what they don't like. And I just feel like I. They were like the best clinical studies, like. Yeah. You know, just the people.

[Caroline Hirons]

People.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, people.

[Caroline Hirons]

And it also teaches you people.

[Nikita Joy]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

I can read people without them even opening their mouth.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. I'm like, you're having a bad day. This is not actually about me.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. We covered this off because I did Katie Jane Hughes yesterday. We're both shop floor girls.

[Nikita Joy]

I met her for the first time. Literally died. Literally died.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, we spent the whole time trying not to jump into a Scouse accent because obviously my family's Liverpool too. So we were both just like, how are you? Oh. And we both wore Liverpool T shirts like it was a thing. But we met when I was training her on the shop floor at Space nk.

[Nikita Joy]

You trained her?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, years ago. Not. I didn't train her in makeup. I'm not taking that credit.

[Nikita Joy]

But I was doing the training. The lore. I cannot get over that.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, that training that you do in. And I don't know if Sephora's the same, but in Space Nk you get trained in everything.

[Nikita Joy]

You're trained by every brand. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So it's like 200 brands. And that's how. If you are talking about product, you can just talk forever. Yeah, Just talk forever.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. And you know the specifics that. That came directly from the brand. And so it's like. And Also, like, using you, like, you were a resource for my entire time working retail. Just because, like, I.

[Caroline Hirons]

Nothing makes me happier not to interrupt your company, literally. But nothing makes me happier than when people in retail say, you were an inspiration. I'm like, literally, love the shop floor. Girls, boys, all of you. The gays, my gays, 100%, all of you. Like, I walked through Bergdorf last time we were here, and this guy, I swear to God, he screamed like he was having a hernia attack. And he just went, don't trouble. We all stopped. I thought, what's happened? I turned around and he went, caroline.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I was like. And he went, don't move. So I literally was like, frozen. What's happened? And he came over and he went.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, my God, I love you.

[Caroline Hirons]

I need a selfie. And I was like, okay. Jesus Christ. I was like, are you okay? He was like, am I okay?

[Nikita Joy]

This is how I reacted when I got the email. Just. Just so everyone knows. This is. That is exactly how I realize that's the best.

[Caroline Hirons]

Because I'm just like, you can work your way up to something if you work hard and you're passionate about it. Day one on the shop floor, I knew I was where I need because I'd done other shop floor. Yeah, I'd done a bit of fashion. Hello. Not me.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

They'd put me on certain counters. They, you know, cover this because I could sell.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I was amiable. I could, you know, read people, talk to people. But my first day in beauty, I felt like I had arrived to my home planet, truly. And I was like, I'm never leaving this, ever.

[Nikita Joy]

And I, like, enjoyed the eight hour shift.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, yeah, not in a heel.

[Nikita Joy]

On the flirt. Never in a heel. Absolutely.

[Caroline Hirons]

When Clarence, I did six weeks with Clarence and they made me wear the red dress, the red outfit and heels and tights, and I wouldn't do it.

[Nikita Joy]

How was this heel?

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, I would only do a court, which made me look like a grandmother when I wasn't one.

[Nikita Joy]

So I would say even hurt more, I think.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Honestly, I would say, oh, no. My suits at the dry cleaner. So if anyone from head office came in, I was head to toe black with a black with a ponytail and a red lip. I've got red lip and red nails.

[Nikita Joy]

That's all you need.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's all I'm doing for clients. But we made more money.

[Nikita Joy]

Beauty dress code is literally all black. Any serious makeup artist knows this.

[Caroline Hirons]

To the point where when I left space and care, burned all my black clothes. When My grandmother died. I had to buy a black. Black outfit because I was so tired of wearing black.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I was like, I'm a. I like color. Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Let me just do a bit of navy. Like, black.

[Nikita Joy]

Have the coloring for it. Like, we need brights from you. Have you done your colors?

[Caroline Hirons]

No. My girlfriend Reese should go to Chinatown.

[Nikita Joy]

And we should do it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Where'd you do it in Chinatown?

[Nikita Joy]

There's. I'll find it on TikTok, but there.

[Caroline Hirons]

Is a Brazilian, but I'm worried they'll be like, you should wear brown. I'll be like, oh, please, I can't do brown or taupe. Taupe would be my idea of hell.

[Nikita Joy]

Really? Well, then we're just, like, a haze of beige. That makes sense. Yeah, I get it.

[Caroline Hirons]

So let's talk about current product. What is your current skincare routine?

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, okay. Well, I follow biblically, the. The word of Caroline Hirons, so I am double cleansing. Don't you worry. I will say, though, I am obsessed currently with. It's called the Mehron blank canvas. It's like a gritty cleansing balm.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay.

[Nikita Joy]

It's like, it gets heavy makeup off. Mehron.

[Caroline Hirons]

No. Online or.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, you can get it online.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, but everyone says that here, and we can't get it online here.

[Nikita Joy]

They have. Well, if they have a pros, like, a pro beauty store, they would probably have it there, so. Good. And then I'll follow with, like, your. I am. I'm allowing myself only to have one cleanser open at a time now. So I have your cleanser opener now, or cleanser open, or you. Your cleanser is open right now. The cream cleanser. Love it. The scent. You nailed it, by the way.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. And then in terms of everything else, I'm really back to basics. I'm back to my acids. I'm back to my P50, the control acid. Hello. This. That. Compliments to the chef. Truly so good that acids. And then those are at night, obviously, but I'll do, like, a vitamin C or a peptide in the morning. I'm kind of. I've fallen into the eye cream. Doesn't really do anything sort of field. Kind of like you have. So I kind of have been skipping the eye cream.

[Caroline Hirons]

You know, I'm older. Well, you went great. You went. You went. You won't be missing out. My eye cream.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay, so it's coming. Okay. Stunning. Okay, great. We'll talk later. And then I literally just do. Because I. Very dry skin, so I do a barrier repair form of, like, Moisturizer, and then I just do my SPF 50. But I h. I can't do American SPF anymore. I'm done so bad. I'm done. The one that I can use is the fenty one that you recommended to me.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, fenty is good.

[Nikita Joy]

It is good, but.

[Caroline Hirons]

But it's still not a European.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. I. I love me a Korean sunscreen. I'm so sorry.

[Caroline Hirons]

They're lighter, and they do a good job.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. The glow.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. What's been your biggest sort of beauty or skincare or makeup or hair disaster where you've just gone, jesus, what am I doing?

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, my God. I can. Oh. There's literally only one that I can tell you. So I was doing a girl's makeup for prom. God bless this girl. So essentially, I don't know if this will make sense to anyone, but I'll just say that before I powdered her face to do bronzer, I carved her cheekbone with powder just like she was my last face of the day. It was just a fluke. I. I know the second I did it, I was like, oh, damn. Okay, great. So I was like, it's gonna be fine. And then I applied bronzer on her after that. It was the sharpest, most chiseled contour ever on her face. Poor girl. I literally. I. My heart sank for her, and I was like, she is gonna be haunted by the photos of this contour for the rest of her life. And I actually do, like, probably once a year think about her and say sorry to her.

[Caroline Hirons]

Her prom pictures are like this.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. Literally. And it's so funny, because people who I've done makeup for will, like, find me on IG and they'll, like, send me a message. I'm waiting for her to find me and tell me, you did this to me. You did this. Yes. Yeah. That was my one beauty disaster.

[Caroline Hirons]

When Ava left school when she was 16, it was her final day, and we all go, and the girl say, bye. She went to an all girls going. And we went. And she had done her brows accidentally in the morning with an eyebrow with an eyeliner. Oh. So they were jet black.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh.

[Caroline Hirons]

And big. So it was at the time when they're. And I. And I went to her. Of course, when you're 16, you don't give a what your mother says.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And 15 to 18 with me and Ava was horrific. She's the first to say it. She was a teenager, teenage girl, feisty. My child. And I was perimenopausal, horrendous.

[Nikita Joy]

You with my mom too.

[Caroline Hirons]

So when she was 16, she like, she's not gonna listen to anything I say. And I went, babe, yeah, Are you brows supposed to be that dark? And she was like, don't talk to me, leave me alone. Anyway, the. Then the pictures got done and I'll send you the clip afterwards where years later, I am hysterically laughing at the picture because I was showing my mum something and I came across the pictures of her and I go into hysterics. And then Ava laughed and then Ava filmed me for Tick Tock.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, stunning.

[Caroline Hirons]

And then posted it and said when your mum tried to tell when your mum let you do your last day at school with this. And I was like, no, no, no. I warned you. I warned you.

[Nikita Joy]

I'm on your team for that one.

[Caroline Hirons]

But there's a clip of me just like, I mean, I'm pissing my. I'm just like doing the snorting laugh and my mother's sitting at the side taking a glass, like, don't, don't laugh at my granddaughter. And I'm just like, I warned her.

[Nikita Joy]

I tried to save her.

[Caroline Hirons]

I tried to save her and she wasn't having it because I was mum.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Hey, but it's one for the album.

[Nikita Joy]

Exactly. And that's how we learn. Mistakes is how we learn.

[Caroline Hirons]

There are a few things in life that just keep on giving. For 3.99amonth. A floppy fuel station sarnie, one small cup of bougie. Overpriced coffee? I don't think so. Or for the same price, you could be getting a month's worth of skincare insights and know how from yours truly, a wealth of fresh, expertly written articles on all things skincare and beauty. From our free to download version for essential educational content to our elevated premium experience, the Skin Rocks app will revolutionize how you shop and learn about skincare. Whether you're a novice building your first routine, an aficionado wanting deep scientific expertise, or someone looking for the inside scoop on beauty newness, it's all in one pocket friendly place on the Skinmox app with simple to use functions that let you filter for your personal profile, save your favorite content and explore a vast product library with ease. It's no wonder it's called the Google of skincare. Unlock a world of incredible premium content for just $3.99 a month, $34.99 a year. Or get a special discount via the podcast with code chpod to get £10 off your annual subscription. Talk to me about makeup. I have lots of questions. Well, everything. Because I had my makeup done recently and I can't say where. I'll tell you afterwards and I'll show you the pictures and you'll be. You'll pray for me.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, God.

[Caroline Hirons]

And when the person that left, I had to wash my face and do it again. Oh, it was been there, horrendous. Now I don't think I look my age. Mostly.

[Nikita Joy]

No, you're okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm 72. I think I'm doing ding. I'm 55. This person made me look older.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I was like, how a big no. You do not cover a 55 year old woman's face in powder. And if you don't know that in your position, there's nothing I can tell you.

[Nikita Joy]

I'm a professional. No offense. I'm so sorry.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I did it all again myself. I just want to show you what they did to my eye area because it was from a distance. I thought just in case I'm supposed to be posting about this, I'll do a Monet.

[Nikita Joy]

So.

[Caroline Hirons]

From a distance. From a distance. Not bad.

[Nikita Joy]

No. Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

You want to see my eye up close?

[Nikita Joy]

Oh. Oh.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, Caroline.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I thank you. And I said. And I said, said my grandmother mother had more glow in the coffin.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you.

[Nikita Joy]

I.

[Caroline Hirons]

This is why I say no all the time. Because I'm just like, no. Unless I know you could do it. I'd let Kevin do it.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, I'm honored.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, people who I know can do like you can do it because you wouldn't make me look dead ever, ever, ever, ever.

[Nikita Joy]

And honestly, applying to like, women of a certain age is my favorite.

[Caroline Hirons]

But you know when you're like, I'm just gonna do this myself. So makeup. Talk to me about your current faves Die hards, because people are gonna want to know.

[Nikita Joy]

I know they are. So. You know what's so funny is I gatekeep a lot of product.

[Caroline Hirons]

You're not gonna gatekeeping for me because I'm gonna be getting you afterwards and I'm gonna be like, give it to me, give me.

[Nikita Joy]

I know, I know, I know, I know. Okay, so my current obsession right now, I let's. I don't know for foundation, we'll say, I think this is like the most prominent. Okay. So no one ever uses this brand. No one ever. No one has used this foundation. I literally. And I have stocked both of my professional kits with the entire range. So, like, I. Y'all can go buy it. I don't care. So Kryolan just released the Digital Complexion Fluid foundation, which in my opinion, might be one of the best fluid foundations ever.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay.

[Nikita Joy]

For anyone? No, it's like a soft, matte, eggshelly moment, but, like, it reads so well up close on camera. Great for mature skin as well. They also have a stunning olive range, which I feel like no one has very, like, a great shade range. Oh, God. What else am I obsessed with? Finishing powder, not setting powder, finish, finishing powder.

[Caroline Hirons]

Tell people the difference, please.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, my God. It would literally be my honor. Okay, so. So a setting powder is going to be a much bigger particle. They're often loose. Yes. There are setting powders that are pressed. Pressed powders are going to have less kick up and be less heavy than a loose powder. But a finishing powder tends to be a very different story. A lot of them are baked and started as fluids. That's not necessarily the case for all of them, but. Or they have a lot of silica content or some form of, like, dimethicone ingredient in there, and they're really great for diffusing. But what I find is that once you do your powders with your settings, your setting powders, first to, like, make sure everything stays in place. Going over everything after your blush, after your bronzer, after every. After everything's done, just buffing with a big fluffy brush as a finishing powder all over will give you, like, the most luminous, gorgeous, like, diffused look. Like, I even over apply my blush and my bronzer because I know I'm going to diffuse it anyways. And everyone is always like, how are you not photoshopped? And it's just finishing powder.

[Caroline Hirons]

Which one?

[Nikita Joy]

Okay, there's two that I'm obsessed with if you want a loose one. The loose one is from Makeup Forever. It's called and it's the word. They completely misbranded it. I have started doing a little consulting behind, like, the good for brands, and I'm just like, like, y'all are not doing this correctly. And so they. It's called the twist and light setting powder or whatever. And they marketed it as, like, a talc free powder. I'm like, no, first of all, stop. We're done with talc free over this. It's not gonna work like cornstarch. Yes, will work, but like talc. I need. Give me talc, please. So they. It's like a talc free powder, but it has, like, this soft ambient powder look, which is actually my preferred from Hourglass, the ambient lighting, or Laura Mercier also has. They have a better, deeper Shade range. Yeah, because I feel like Hourglass, that's the one thing. It's like I want one line that is like for everyone because I have to do like three different products to get everything. But you're basically looking for usually like a baked powder that has a soft, luminous, like candlelit glow to it. I like the ambient powder from Hourglass. I like the one from Laura Mercier. I would love to eventually have my own, my own brand with like the perfect finishing powder. But like those I think are like my like a good stunning foundation and a good finishing powder and everything else I feel like is just you can kind of make it work.

[Caroline Hirons]

You got to get the base right.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, the base and the brushes I feel like are really important. And then like the finishers, concealer. You know what, people are gonna hate this. So I. There's so much new product, as you know, that comes on and onto the scene and it's not like the brand's fault. Like it really is. The retailers, oftentimes I find like everyone is like, we have this new activation, we need this new product for our activations. And so it's like. And that's when we start to see like the wave. And I feel like if you like sort of pay attention to Sephora, you'll see it like they did the wave of like the color correctors and they did the wave of the wave.

[Caroline Hirons]

Everything they tell brands of what they have to make.

[Nikita Joy]

Exactly. And so even through all of the waves, concealer has really never changed. For me. I am very, very much a pro artist at heart. And so like I really do the basics. I'm a derma color girl from, I mean Kryon. Another great product. It's like an oil based, really high coverage formula that works really great when you put it closest to the skin. But then honestly, what most all of the artists use is born this way. Concealer from Too faced because it is so, so malleable. You can shear it out beautifully when you mix in your own like other emolian products. Honestly, I think it's great on mature skin if you're like in the cape, in the right hands, like with the right touch, mature skin loves it. I also, it's one of the only products on the market that is like you can apply over a powdered face and like do touch ups. So like for bridal, it's like truly iconic. I also love. Kryolan has also come out with. They have a digital complexion concealer. If you have, if you struggle with fine lines underneath the Eyes. And, like, you find that things look really cakey on you after you powder them. Give that one a shot. Like it's new to the market. Trust me. Like, whatever they. Whatever secret sauce they put into, like, that drop is truly stunning.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Kevin James Bennett is one of my good friends, and he's. He's always a pro, he's always a cry, and he's always like, you need this and this. Give her this and this.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally, this is what.

[Caroline Hirons]

You just need this one thing. The six styles here. You got six colors. You're good.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally. Yeah. And honestly. And that's why it's, like, it's really hard to be in the influencer space now, because I. I am the first one to say that you don't need all this product.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

And most of what's coming to market is just redone of often their own formulas repackaged. And so it's like, you really just have to find the one formula that works. And I feel like the pro stuff will never fail you.

[Caroline Hirons]

No.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay. Talk to me about my favorite topic. Well, there's a lot of favorite topics, but my obsession is mascara.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh.

[Caroline Hirons]

Because it's so hard.

[Nikita Joy]

It is very hard.

[Caroline Hirons]

And people are like, this is amazing. And I use it. I think, what kind of lashes have you got? This just makes me look like I've painted something black on my lashes. My lashes are like shop shutters. They're like, down straight. Yeah. I have to curl them. If people are doing my makeup, when they come at me with them, I'm like, whoa, where's the curlers?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Hello.

[Nikita Joy]

No. Hello. So I also have. I. Do you have downward facing lashes? Like, literally down. I have curly hair. I don't understand.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's like downward dog. Literally, dog. My lashes are like.

[Nikita Joy]

They're doing yoga, literally.

[Caroline Hirons]

So that's why when I wore the fake lashes for years, I say now, it was like I was on RuPaul because my eyes went surprise, literally, like Essel Merman everywhere. But I. I was like, I need this lift to, like, throw my head back with the weight because my lashes are like, yes. See, I tell them, curl them. Fiber. Fiber.

[Nikita Joy]

And I understand your problem because I had the exact same problem. And it's like. And mascara is such. Yes, yes. Mascara is such a. It's such a hard one. Because, like, I feel like, yes, one. It is very, like, personal preference. But the non negotiables for me are it has to be waterproof. I will not touch a mascara. Well, I do mascara in two phases. I do A waterproof phase. And then if I want to do a non waterproof mascara, I'll do that on top. But like I curl the lashes. We curl roots, middles and ends with our lash curler, or ends, middles, roots, whichever one you prefer. And then I follow with like a very sheer amount. And I'll usually wipe it off on a Kleenex or something of a waterproof mascara just to hold the curl. If it's super water, if it's a super watery, like fresh tube, you do got to wipe it off because even.

[Caroline Hirons]

I spend my life doing that on. The tube is too big.

[Nikita Joy]

No. Yeah, no, just wipe it off. It's whatever. And I also, for that, love a drugstore mascara. They tend to be a little bit drier, they have more wax in them.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, they dry out quicker, but they're.

[Nikita Joy]

Cheaper, which is fine. I don't care. My favorite is, I mean, L'Oreal waterproof mascara is carbon black. And the telescopic waterproof have never failed me, ever. I go through tubes upon tubes upon tubes of them. And I. So I do a, I do a one coat of waterproof to hold the curl. If you apply too much mascara though, and it's really wet, it, the curl will drop. So it's like you do have to really wipe it off first. Yeah, I let that dry, you know, have its moment. And then I'll follow with stage two mascara, which if, which is usually a non waterproof mascara.

[Caroline Hirons]

And what is your stage two? What's the like big guns?

[Nikita Joy]

My. Well, I feel like all mascara is kind of the same, you know, like, sure, like they have different brushes, but like at the end of the day, like I feel like if you are holding your curl with a good waterproof mascara and then like you just want to build a little bit of volume and not so much like the length of it all. That's what, that's what false lashes are for, you guys, you know, which I know people don't want to do, but I just feel like it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Just, just do it. Just do it.

[Nikita Joy]

You don't need to do the lash extensions. I've honestly never done them. But like there are maintenance.

[Caroline Hirons]

Literally, I've got enough to do between the razor and the makeup and the exfoliation and the hair color and the tweezing. I don't know.

[Nikita Joy]

Lasers, I can't do it. It's literally too much. So it's like I'll just pop on a lash if I want a little bit of extra length. But like, I love Monsieur Big from Lancome that, that one is like a stunning one. But I really am a drugstore girl. CoverGirl Clump Crusher Water resistant is the best. Quote me the best, like final step mascara. If you have like a problem with smudging, like if you have oily eyelids or if you have a lot of emollient product. It is like the one mascara that I found that will never transfer ever. And I've used it for years. It has to be the water resistant one in the green tube. But it's. That's like my final. So maybe I'm doing three mascaras.

[Caroline Hirons]

But you know, if whatever works. We have to do what works truly.

[Nikita Joy]

But it's again, it's a system.

[Caroline Hirons]

If your bathroom is on fire. Oh, and everything's safe, anything animal or people that you want to say for safe.

[Nikita Joy]

I have to re up my renter's insurance.

[Caroline Hirons]

Now that you bring that, what are you saving? What are you going to be like? Oh, I would be really upset if I lost this.

[Nikita Joy]

Does it have to be my bathroom?

[Caroline Hirons]

No, your makeup counter's on fire.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay, that's fine.

[Caroline Hirons]

But your kit's on fire. What are you saving? What are you like. No, Come with me. When they say don't take bags when you're on the airplane, if the plane goes down, don't take your bag. And I'm like, I'm totally taking my bag.

[Nikita Joy]

That's such a good question. You know the one thing I would take and I would have to grab like with all of my might. All of them. My brush collection.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, good shout.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. Like my brush collection is th. Those are my children. And I'm like such. I'm such a brush enthusiast friend. Oh, honestly. Some of my favorite brushes are brands that I could never pronounce from Japan.

[Caroline Hirons]

My Shiramura brushes are like, sure, sure. But they're from. They're vintage. I mean I say vintage. I got them when I was like 20 years ago on counter. That kind of vintage. But they're still immaculate.

[Nikita Joy]

I love Sarat brushes. I love. I mean I love my Hakuhodo. I love, I love b Delium tools. Like they don't need to be expensive. I love my Kiko Refer is one of my like recent.

[Caroline Hirons]

I use a lot of my kit company.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, like they're just stunning brushes. But yeah, I would definitely grab my, my brush.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's a good answer.

[Nikita Joy]

If anyone is going to like get me a gift, I always tell them get me like a. Get me a brush while you're traveling. And just like I Like I would grab all my sentimental brushes from like.

[Caroline Hirons]

Noted. Yeah, noted. And what is your buy it for life product where you're just like, I don't care where I am. I'm just going to make sure I've got stock. I'm never going to be without it. Anything head to toe, body, hair, face, nail, body.

[Nikita Joy]

You're killing me with this one. Okay. Do I have to do just one?

[Caroline Hirons]

No, you can do as many as you want.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay. I would say lotion. P50.50 is like. And you turn me on to that. Hello. All credits, all credit when the credit is due. Retinol. Honestly, like I am a track girl.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

That a 313 in the winter. Some people say it doesn't work, but.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, it doesn't work on me.

[Nikita Joy]

I find it works like as a dry skinned girl in the winter. Like it's just enough. You know what else? Oh, I, I mean, oh, you just.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like a bit of a whore and you'll just.

[Nikita Joy]

Here's my thing, here's my thing, here's my thing, here's my thing. And this is, I think what comes with like working in the biz for so long is that I can make anything work. You know, I am not super, I'm not super loyal too much more than a handful of products.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

And when it comes to skincare, it is my, it is my P15 now. It's also my control acid from Skin rocks and it is also probably my tre and my spf. Like other than that I'm. I lie, I, I play within reason. Like I'm not doing all of the niacinamide and everything.

[Caroline Hirons]

All of the fruit n everything now.

[Nikita Joy]

No, I can't. I literally cannot. So it's like I prefer basics like give me my glycerin, you know, Give me my glycerin and my SPF and I will be fine. Such a good shout, you know.

[Caroline Hirons]

Totally.

[Nikita Joy]

So I, I think less is more really.

[Caroline Hirons]

Here we are folks. The most insanely efficacious, sensorial, luxurious cleansing balm in the world has landed. I don't need to tell you what it takes to put my name to a cleansing balm. And this one had one mother of a brief. The Skin Rocks cleansing balm is the best balm ever created and one I would choose every single time over anything I've ever used. Five rollercoaster years of fearless ambition, sky high expectation, tears, triumphs and f bombs. No pressure then, but what a result. Undoubtedly my most anticipated product. This was by far the hardest to make the texture and crunch that took four years to perfect. Its ability to decimate literally everything on your face. The R in a jar scent, the paperweight, heavy hot pink glass. I mean, literally everything I adore in a cleanser has been distilled into one glorious jar, and it is absolutely spectacular. Transforming from a solid balm to a rich replenishing oil, this barrier nourishing balm is formulated with the same innovative Lipid advanced complex as the support oil to deliver supreme skin barrier support and help improve skin firmness, elasticity and hydration. There is simply nothing like it. It's £55. It's ready and waiting, and there is no dupe. Okay, now we have another little thing that we do at the end, which is. Which I'm going to get the. The US version of because I've got the UK version and I don't want.

[Nikita Joy]

You to be like a little of both.

[Caroline Hirons]

Sure. Okay, I'll go back to it. It's fine. I can. I can do both. I can do it from memory. Okay, so Sephora or Ulta?

[Nikita Joy]

Sephora, just because it's closer. My closest Ulta is uptown, so. And I never go up there.

[Caroline Hirons]

So Sephora or department store. Oh, and if it's department store, it's. What's your favorite department store?

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, like so hard.

[Caroline Hirons]

Are you gonna do like a Bergdorf or a Nordstrom or like in the old day, it would be easy. Everyone say Barney's or Bendell's.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Back in the day.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, my God. Honestly, just. Just because I know every product in the store. Sephora.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, you are. You're trained.

[Nikita Joy]

I'm a trained girl.

[Caroline Hirons]

See, it's not like in the UK when we say spacing case before. Everyone says spacing K. Because we've had it for 25 years, literally. Sephora, new in the UK.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. Wow. That's shocking to me.

[Caroline Hirons]

They took their sweet ass time, but they're here.

[Nikita Joy]

Thank God.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, they're there now. Okay, are you ready for your more quick fire? Bold eye or bold lip?

[Nikita Joy]

Bald lip?

[Caroline Hirons]

Dewy or matte skin?

[Nikita Joy]

Dewy.

[Caroline Hirons]

Lipstick or lip gloss? Both. Nice. Oh, nice. I like that. She's greedy. I like that.

[Nikita Joy]

Well, it's lipstick set with the translucent powder, then gloss.

[Caroline Hirons]

Lipstick set with translucent powder.

[Nikita Joy]

Well, I do. I set my lips with powder and then I do my liner and then I set my liner and then I do my lipstick and then I set my lipstick and then I do my gloss and it never moves.

[Caroline Hirons]

With what, Like a cotton pad or what? How are you setting It.

[Nikita Joy]

I. I use a pressed powder and a puff and I just. Literally.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. If I'm feeling really festive before I gloss, I'll do a layer of Krylon fixing spray. You know, like, I should have done that.

[Caroline Hirons]

I talk so much, my lipstick lasts three seconds.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, yeah, that. Do that routine. You'll. You can eat through dinner. You'll be fine.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm on it. Okay. AM or PM Routine?

[Nikita Joy]

Both.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, my God. Makeup brush or makeup sponge?

[Nikita Joy]

Brush.

[Caroline Hirons]

There's got to be. It gotta be city break or country escape.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, honestly, as a city girl, I love a country escape.

[Caroline Hirons]

Goes back to my shopping online or shopping in store.

[Nikita Joy]

I need instant gratification. I like to shop in store.

[Caroline Hirons]

You know, dogs or cats?

[Nikita Joy]

Cats.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yes.

[Nikita Joy]

I have a cat. So sorry. He would literally. He would know if I didn't say cats.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, it's got to be cats. Sweet or savory?

[Nikita Joy]

Savory.

[Caroline Hirons]

We're literally married.

[Nikita Joy]

Are we the same person?

[Caroline Hirons]

Heels or flats?

[Nikita Joy]

Heels. Always.

[Caroline Hirons]

Never.

[Nikita Joy]

I'm in a heel now.

[Caroline Hirons]

Shoes or bags?

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, shoes. Really?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, because shoes don't fit me. Look, I've got huge feet. I'm just in sneakers all the time.

[Nikita Joy]

We're probably the same size.

[Caroline Hirons]

What are you?

[Nikita Joy]

I'm a nine. Ten.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm a ten.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Based off that, I find the best way.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, no, I'm a UK 10. So I'm like an 11. 12.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh.

[Caroline Hirons]

Which just tips you over the edge of anything attractive.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, where. What is. What is happening? Why can't.

[Caroline Hirons]

We're all getting bigger too, so they need to sort it out.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Night in or night out?

[Nikita Joy]

Night in. Always. I am. I am practically agoraphobic at this point, so I am not going outside.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't.

[Nikita Joy]

Unless you're for Caroline Hirons. Then I will go.

[Caroline Hirons]

Truly honored. Now, in the uk, we do Nandos or Wagamamas, which won't mean anything to you.

[Nikita Joy]

No, I want to know the lingo.

[Caroline Hirons]

So Nando's is a chicken restaurant.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, stunning.

[Caroline Hirons]

And Wagamama's is more like a sort of Japanese fusion, but. But, like, take out. Almost takeout. But you can do it on Uber Eats and delivery. But you can sit down and eat their dumplings and noodles. And so we. We do that. But here I feel like it should be like a raising canes or a Chick Fil a situation. But I also know that Chick Fil A are very right wing. So maybe we'll just say raising canes.

[Nikita Joy]

Maybe we'll say raising.

[Caroline Hirons]

What is your Takeout of choice or fast food? Of choice.

[Nikita Joy]

I don't really eat a ton of fast food.

[Caroline Hirons]

What do you eat? I don't mean that like you look like you don't eat. I mean like, what do you, what do you. Do you cook when you're home?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, I cook. I. Well, I mean I grew up like very. In like an athletic sort of life and, and are my healthy? Well, not like by choice. It was just sort of like by lifestyle. I was so used to like, we had a set meal plan that we had to eat growing up like, like I was a swimmer and so our coach told us what we could eat and couldn't eat. And so I just like have really stuck to chicken, rice and veggies. That's kind of like my vibe.

[Caroline Hirons]

So you'd be Nando's. Just so you know.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay, I'd be a Nando's girl.

[Caroline Hirons]

You'd be Nando's. And you could have rice.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you know, the sides.

[Nikita Joy]

I mean, honestly, Asian food is the easiest takeoff for me to get.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

If I had to choose, I would say probably Thai, you know? You know, it's a good tim ka soup, I think. I hope I said that right. It's like a chai chicken soup. I don't. Maybe I'm completely butchering that.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's good, but it's good. Who cares? So what have you got planned? What's coming up? What's 2025 got in store? What? Can we look forward to more of this?

[Nikita Joy]

Of course, 2025 is actually wild.

[Caroline Hirons]

Is it?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, it's going to be a wild year.

[Caroline Hirons]

Are you coming to the uk?

[Nikita Joy]

I would give me a reason to come. I will literally come. Just say the, say the word and I will come. I have stuff that's. I have stuff that's been brewing in the back for a really long time. I feel like I've been very like quiet and like subdued online and I don't really like talk a lot about what I'm doing in the background.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, no, don't, don't drop like a big thing. But like we're going to be seeing more of you and for sure.

[Nikita Joy]

I mean, I have my first product launch, like my first collab that I'm gonna like and it. And it's not even makeup related. It's a fashion related moment. She's a fashion girly. And then honestly, like, I guess this isn't really a spoiler because I talked about it online, but I, I am at a place, I have the resources. I Have the people and the connections that I'm ready to, like, get my hands to work and, like, start maybe thinking about doing a little line. You never know. I'm excited. I feel like maybe not by the end of 25. 20. 25.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, no. It'll take a bit longer. Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

But like, just one skill and see how it goes.

[Caroline Hirons]

It'll fly. You know, it would fly.

[Nikita Joy]

I'll tell you my idea after.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you for coming. I love you. You're just. You're just an inspiration, and you're amazing. And, you know, it's just proof that, you know, if you know who you are and you stay true to you are and you can come out the other side of all the. And the trauma and literally, you know.

[Nikita Joy]

Follow your light and it will lead you everywhere.

[Caroline Hirons]

Every time I see your face, I stop what I'm doing and watch.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, I'm honored. Every time I your face or your notification that Caroline Hyruins is on live.

[Caroline Hirons]

I know when you join me for the last time, I'm on alive. I was like, nikita's here. She's on live.

[Nikita Joy]

Gooped me. And she does it every single time she sees me now. And I'm just like, you guys, this is a surreal experience for me.

[Caroline Hirons]

There's nowhere to hide. I'm like, here she is.

[Nikita Joy]

I love it. It's.

[Caroline Hirons]

Before we. Before we go. Where does your. Where does your hang? Where does your handle come from?

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, my God.

[Caroline Hirons]

Neo it Girl. For those of you who don't know.

[Nikita Joy]

So it's actually so funny. Like, Neo It Girl is kind of a compilation of all the words that were used against me growing up. It's a bunch of, like, slurs. You know, people used to call me an it. Like, no. Yeah, after. Like, after you have, you know, medicalized things are con. Are referred to as, like, Neo. Like, what? Yeah, like when, like, bottom surgery is called, like, Neo vaginas. And like, so it's like, it was. It really was just like my. I wanted to just reclaim everything that's ever been used against.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow.

[Nikita Joy]

And so. And it's funny because, like, I don't think anyone knew that. So it's like, I. I totally, like, accept everyone's manifestation that I am the new it Girl, but it really is just like, me trying to see.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's even more inspirational. Good for you.

[Nikita Joy]

Thank you.

[Caroline Hirons]

Bastards. Give me a list afterwards. I'll go after Totally.

[Nikita Joy]

Well, every. Everyone I went to school with, you know, that's him. Whatever.

[Caroline Hirons]

How do you like me now?

[Nikita Joy]

Literally? Are you sitting across from Carolyn Hirons. No, no, also speaking. Can I just say one thing? What influencer do you know online sitting across from Caroline Hirons on Tik Tok. Where are they? I haven't seen a single one. I'm so sorry, I thought. Jimmy. Jamie.

[Caroline Hirons]

Jamie, Genevieve.

[Nikita Joy]

I'm too excited to say it. Jamie, Genevieve. And I was like, yes, like the good influencers are here.

[Caroline Hirons]

We only deal with the best, babe.

[Nikita Joy]

Thank you.

[Caroline Hirons]

There's got to be some education behind them. They've got to be. Generally the people I talk to, a shop floor, generally, they. They know instinctively. If you walk through a Sephora together or a Bergdorf together or a Nordstrom together or a Space in K together, you're going to spot the same things, you're going to look for the same mistakes. And it's not that you. It's just inbred.

[Nikita Joy]

Literally.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean, I walked through Sephora yesterday and I. I won't go into a hard time about them because.

[Nikita Joy]

Tell me.

[Caroline Hirons]

I love. No, because I. I've laid into them on the Lipstick Lesbians podcast. They. It was a. As you show it, I'm like, it makes me so sad because you're seen as the beacon of beauty in the uk, in the us and unless you are there at opening time, it's a show. Yeah, it's messy. Every single test is empty. Live wanted, the refive Moscow sold out. So shape in the drawer and there's like 25 in the drawer and they hadn't filled up the stock. Tissues, dirty tissues on the floor. And the staff are like this cross armed.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm like, time to lean, time to clean. The management in me just went wild. It was wild and it put me off shopping and it breaks my heart. Please, please, Sephora hire people like us to consult.

[Nikita Joy]

Hello.

[Caroline Hirons]

To show you the. How many stages if retail beauty did what the restaurant world does? Because when I was a waitress, we had like 34 points with every table. Yeah, blah, blah, blah, welcome. Blah, blah, blah. Check back, da, da, da. Check back, check.

[Nikita Joy]

Like, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

No one was cleaning the bins, picking tissue up, tidying. I took pictures of the refy section, sent it to my MD and I said, it breaks my heart that I walk into this place and I don't want my brand to be here.

[Nikita Joy]

Hello.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't want my brand here. Which will make every single investor go, we're out. But I don't care if I walked in and everything was empty. No, it would break my heart. It breaks my heart. But you do not get that in a Department store. No, department store has people. You have the service. And that's where we need Sephora to step up and Department Store to be a bit less glass cage with a lock.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Can we have the middle ground?

[Nikita Joy]

God, I have so much to say about that.

[Caroline Hirons]

Please.

[Nikita Joy]

Do we have time?

[Caroline Hirons]

We absolutely have time.

[Nikita Joy]

I. This is my thing. Just as working in at Sephora for as long as I did, I will say that the culture of management is. Is making everyone want to leave. Like no one loves their job anymore.

[Caroline Hirons]

Interesting. You can tell they look literally miserable.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. Management has.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I, by the way, I never blame the people on the shop floor unless they are actually rude. Yeah. No, I have empathy. But clean. At least take pride in what you're doing.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. Literally. I mean, I feel like it's probably a, you know, a higher problem of like it all just is like a money grab at this point and so everyone is like, we need to hit our numbers. We need to hit our numbers.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you can see it.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And can I help you today? No, I'm okay, thank you. And then they're gone. Well, at least clean. If I saw you at least were investing.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. I. I just feel like that's like a higher up problem that has trickled down to people just not being inspired by the job and they can't keep anyone or hire anyone who actually is inspired by it because they can't pay them enough to keep them.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

It just is what it is. That might have been too real. I'm very sorry.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, it's a sad progression. Well, we were laid into it yesterday. It was. We've had very much the same conversations. Me, Kevin, James Bennett, lipstick lesbians. We all feel the same way. It's heartbreaking.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, listen to people who know. We do both. Men who are funding you, white men in suits. I cannot.

[Nikita Joy]

Never touched a beauty product.

[Caroline Hirons]

Ever touched a person's face. Never spoken. That probably step. There's a. You know, there's a saying in the UK that used to be the queen thinks that everything in the world smells like paint because 10ft in front of us, someone's doing this. Yeah, right. That's what it's like when management go into a store. They know they're coming, they're prepared. Everyone calls each other. They do it in space. NK the border. Touring the stores. The store calls them and says, they're on the way to you. They're on the way to you. The place is immaculate. So they don't see the real deal.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah, truly.

[Caroline Hirons]

But I've got To say space in K. In the uk, it's a different level to Sephora.

[Nikita Joy]

I.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's lean, it's clean, it's stuffed like this. Sephora's breaking my heart. And yeah, I still go in. I know I still go in, but that's what makes them lazy. We still go because they have the monopoly, which.

[Nikita Joy]

And. And that made. That even breaks my heart more because, like, because they have the monopoly and like their standards. Clean beauty and green. I hate it. It's ruining the beauty space. And all of the good products that have existed are being transitioned to talc free and they're all. They're ruining every formula and it just. I am so mad. It just, it boils my blood.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, that's very polite because in the uk we say it boils my piss.

[Nikita Joy]

Boils that too.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Boils my piss.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah. It makes my heart rate go up thinking about it.

[Caroline Hirons]

So let's finish on a high. What is your favorite thing about the industry?

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, what is my favorite thing about the industry? Oh, you know what my favorite thing about the industry is that if you hustle and you are willing to do the work, you can get to absolutely anywhere you want to go.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

Even without the expectation that you will get there in the first place. Like, I think that if you are willing and you have like the eye and you just know that you are meant to be there.

[Caroline Hirons]

You have the passion.

[Nikita Joy]

You have the passion and you have like, the need to just like, be an artist. There's nothing you can't do and, like, you can really make something for yourself.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I think it's the best industry in the world. But I'm biased.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I love it. So as much as I rage, I rage against people. Like, with love. With love with Sephora, because it's like you. You have to be held to a higher standard.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

You're representing all of us and it's not good enough.

[Nikita Joy]

You're being a good friend. Good friends don't let their friends.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm not sure they would see it that way, but we'll. It's okay. Thank you so much. I mean, what an absolute pleasure and an honor.

[Nikita Joy]

No, this was.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wishing you every single success for 2025 and onwards. And we're gonna be DMing a lot.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

That we're gonna be whatsapping a lot.

[Nikita Joy]

Wait, do I get to ask a question? Yeah. My burning question.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay, well, I have two, and I'm gonna let you choose. Okay. Do you want to do. Do you want to talk pigmentation or do you want to talk breakouts?

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't care. I'll do both.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay. For people, this is a very trans specific question, but hormone replacement therapy makes trans femmes and trans women specifically, like more prone to hyperpigmentation.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

Like, like randomly, the sunspots are just popping up. Yeah. And I'm like, what am I to do? The melasma is coming out. Is there anything that we can do?

[Caroline Hirons]

Not really. Welcome to the world of female.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay, great.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's hormones, it's estrogen and it's triggered. And you've triggered it, obviously, because you have hormone.

[Nikita Joy]

Hello.

[Caroline Hirons]

You know, we have hormone therapy, so it's spf. It's also triggered by heat though, so staying out the sun doesn't always help heat. So saunas don't great. Steam rooms aren't great. Hot temperatures can also trigger it. So you can treat it. So in the UK now and the same in the usa, most of the treatments will be anti pigmentation because the sun's not out, but it will generally come back. So you can do laser and there are things you can do, but the biggest thing you can do prevention wise, and this is why we all get it, is not have too many hormonal surges.

[Nikita Joy]

Hello.

[Caroline Hirons]

So, hello. If you have periods, pregnancy, menopause, or any hormone replacement therapy, then you are prone to having pigmentation issues. It's basically where your, your melanocytes are over stimulated and it goes off like a firework instead of like a cool breeze. So instead of this, it goes, host party, let's party.

[Nikita Joy]

It's party time on this face.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. And then you're just gonna have to use the things that are sort of designed to basically tell your skin to chill the out.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, stunning. I can do that.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nikita Joy]

And then for breakouts, just because I'm dealing with a breakout right now, and I am.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't think you are, by the way, because when I said take those glasses off, you were like, I cannot possibly film with this face. And I was like, your face is beautiful. What are you talking about?

[Nikita Joy]

I didn't do my eye makeup for this specific reason.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, it looks fine, so thank you.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay, so for people who wake up and they're just having breakouts, obviously I am a girl who is like. And I feel like I can do it in a very safe, clinical way. Do my little extractions. Everything's fine. What is the number one for when you wake up with a breakout and you are like, desperate to have it resolved? What is like the priority?

[Caroline Hirons]

Acid. Yeah, that's what I figured acid, depending on who you are and how you do it, picking if it's ready.

[Nikita Joy]

I don't pick.

[Caroline Hirons]

I pick. But that's pop. But pop. Pop.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's what I mean.

[Nikita Joy]

But I use my little tool and I like, you know.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. So acid retinoid on top. And I will put a retinal, A strong retinoid on top even in the daytime, because you're only going to do it on the spot. So you can get a Q tip. Get your retinoid.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay, so I'm doing it right?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, of course. And then just let it. It will eventually dry itself out. And then if you. If you know that you've gone too far and it's gone red and angry, you're going to have to immediately put a cashmere blanket on it. So it's like support oil moisturizer. Support oil moisturizer. And then essentially you just kind of have to. And sometimes actually putting makeup on it and leaving it all day is the best thing you can do because it crusts over. And then when you cleanse that night, you generally knock it off. You just need to make sure you keep going, though, with the retinoid because you don't want it to scar anything that's pink.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

You can cure in terms of.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

It won't scar.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh, stunning. Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

So like when you. When people get stretch marks and things, if it's still pink. Yeah, if they're pink, it's blood flow. It's when they go white that you need to go and see someone and do invasive and laser and that kind of thing because the blood flow isn't there. So you're not going to get the stimulation. So if you've picked a spot and it's still pink, that is when you nuke it. Acid retinoid. Acid retinoids. Like turn over the cell. Turn over the cell. Get. Make sure you don't scar and keep it hydrated. But do. When you. When you do use makeup and dry it out, that is kind of the best way you can because it stops you picking. So I, I kind of appreciate everyone who wears this like this. You know, the spot stickers and stuff, I think they're good for overnight. During the day. Sometimes it's actually better to wear makeup.

[Nikita Joy]

Interesting.

[Caroline Hirons]

Because people like, oh, don't put makeup on your spots. No, cover it, Cover it. Because you won't pick it.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Keep it covered. And it does tend to dry it out. But if you know it's going to get bigger and start swelling, get a Spot sticker on it. Anything to stop you picking.

[Nikita Joy]

Wow. The. The queen of knowledge. I. Wow. A master class.

[Caroline Hirons]

But it is one of those things that everyone's different. Like it depends on the spot. How old are you? Is it hormonal?

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like I can know by looking by someone. You've eaten something that doesn't suit you. You've got fungal acne, which isn't a thing, but my son Max had it. So it is a thing. But it's just. We have a name for it and we use an antifungal shampoo that you can buy in any cvs. Wash your forehead with it gone. So everyone's like, it's that. And it's like head and shoulders. Like, it's not head and shoulders, it's the nioxin stuff. Right. It's nice oral.

[Nikita Joy]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

And then there's hormonal breakouts, which are generally under the skin in red and don't come to a head. And they're really annoying and they're always here and here. And then there's. You just have an overactive sebaceous gland and you've got a white head. White head, blackhead. And that's different. So it depends on the face I'm looking at in the way that you would look at everyone's eyes and do them all different. But in general, if you're gonna pick, cover it up, whether that's depending on your age and you're at school. A spot sticker.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

My husband sat up with me. I've got to tell this before we finish. We're in. We're in Babington House, which is like a Soho house in Somerset in England. And he went, oh, love, it's a shame. You can't help that young girl over there. She's got this huge zit on her face and she looks so self conscious about it. Right, wait for this. So I am me. I'm not going to turn around. Like, he wouldn't be like, where? So I'm like, okay, fine, I'll check it out. And I go. So I go. And she's across the room and as I walk past her, I can see that she's actually quite a cool young teenager and she's wearing a purple star face. So she's not embarrassed by it. She's embracing the zit, which I love that trend. Honestly, it's the best thing. When I was a kid and you had a spot, it was embarrassing, literally. So I laugh and I went over when I sat down, by the way, I Was like, she doesn't have a breakout. She's wearing a spot sticker because you've seen Ava wearing them. And he went, why would you do that? And I'm like, because it's saying, I've got a spot and I'm covering it up. I love that trend.

[Nikita Joy]

Love it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank God for spot stickers.

[Nikita Joy]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Because it stops like young kids with a face where just being like, oh, God, I've got a spot. I should be so embarrassed.

[Nikita Joy]

Wow. That was honestly so shady of your hubby. And I love it.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, he did mean it nicely.

[Nikita Joy]

I love it, though.

[Caroline Hirons]

He was like, it was a read. It was because it was purple, and from a distance, he thought it was an actual spot. I'm like, how blind are you?

[Nikita Joy]

I am obsessed.

[Caroline Hirons]

It was like a purple star in her face.

[Nikita Joy]

Oh.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean, it was across the restaurant. And he does wear glasses, though.

[Nikita Joy]

He did the best he could. I love the way he handled.

[Caroline Hirons]

I was like, it's a spot stick. And he went, oh, okay. I was like. Like, Ava wears. And he was like, yeah. No, I guy. Okay. He said, I just thought it was a big spot.

[Nikita Joy]

I love it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay, we need to go and film a chats with C. Okay. Where we really get down and dirty. Okay. But thank you so much.

[Nikita Joy]

Thank you. I literally love you. This is such an honor. Thank you for having me for us.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you. This was.

[Nikita Joy]

This was not on my bingo card. And this is like. This is like a high of my life. Like, genuinely, like. It really is. I never. The last place I ever thought I would be would be in this chair. So. No, I don't.

[Caroline Hirons]

Why, of course we're thrilled. Thank you for saying yes.

[Nikita Joy]

Never expected it. No, it just. It means. It just. Yeah. I just love it. Thank you so much. Love you.

[Caroline Hirons]

I feel like I should at least be giving you some of my American accent, but I also don't want to put you all off and enrage people, so I will just say thank you so much for listening. Tune in again on Wednesday for another episode of Glad we had this Chat Takes New York, where I'll be sitting down with yet another big name in the Big Apple. Until then. Oh, my God, I'm so glad we had this chat. Are you kidding me? New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday. Follow us. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.