10 Must-Know Moments in Celebrity Memoirs (with Jeff Hiller)

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Episode: 10 Must-Know Moments in Celebrity Memoirs (with Jeff Hiller)
Release Date: June 13, 2025
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Jeff Hiller

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Introduction

In this episode of Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast, host Chelsea Devantez welcomes comedian and writer Jeff Hiller to delve into "10 Must-Know Moments in Celebrity Memoirs." Both Chelsea and Jeff share their deep passion for celebrity memoirs, discussing standout moments, personal anecdotes, and the impact these stories have on their understanding of pop culture and celebrity life.

Key Discussions and Insights

1. Rue McClanahan’s "My First Five Husbands and the Ones Who Got Away" ([15:00])

Jeff highlights Rue McClanahan’s memoir where she rates her lovemaking experiences, particularly praising Robert Guillaume, saying, “[Rue] confesses to having a sexual affair with Robert Guillaume... his lovemaking was a 10” ([15:20]). This candid assessment adds a humorous and intimate layer to her storytelling, making it a memorable moment in celebrity memoirs.

2. Paris Hilton’s Memoir on Troubled Camp Experiences ([07:45])

Chelsea and Jeff discuss Paris Hilton’s memoir, which recounts her harrowing experiences at a camp that Chelsea describes as a “torture center.” Jeff notes, “[Paris Hilton] might just sink it underneath the water and you might not come back” ([07:55]), emphasizing the memoir’s dark and intense narratives that contrast with more lighthearted celebrity stories.

3. Lynn Spears’ Ordeal and Manager Scandal ([27:03])

One of the most gripping moments covered is Lynn Spears' recounting of how she was manipulated by Sam Lufty, Britney Spears' manager. Chelsea narrates how Lynn was lured into a jewelry line deal, which ultimately led to Britney’s conservatorship:

“Lynn answers a shady phone call twice and wanted a jewelry lineup... and became Britney Spears' manager... and got her on drugs” ([28:59]).

This story underscores the darker side of celebrity management and exploitation.

4. Elvira’s Vulnerable Moments ([37:01])

Jeff shares a poignant moment from Elvira’s memoir, where she discusses childhood trauma and fleeting relationships:

“She accidentally burned herself as a child and had a casual encounter with Tom Jones, remembering her burns vividly” ([37:17]).

This vulnerability adds depth to Elvira's public persona, revealing the struggles behind her iconic image.

5. Candice Bergen’s Near-Miss with Charles Manson ([31:05])

Chelsea and Jeff recount Candice Bergen’s memoir where she narrowly avoids tragedy when Charles Manson visits her home:

“Candice Bergen meets Charles Manson when he asks for a record contract, and later realizes he could have harmed her family” ([31:27]).

This chilling account highlights the unpredictable dangers celebrities can face.

6. Alan Cumming’s Personal Revelations ([34:16])

Jeff appreciates memoirs by male celebrities, particularly Alan Cumming, who shares profound personal insights:

“Alan Cumming discusses discovering his biological father and grappling with identity” ([34:19]).

These honest revelations offer a fresh perspective in the male celebrity memoir landscape.

7. Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake’s Abortion Story ([41:05])

Although widely covered, Chelsea reflects on the tragic intersection of Britney Spears’ personal struggles and her relationship with Justin Timberlake, emphasizing its recurring significance in celebrity memoirs.

8. Ginger Rogers’ Mother and McCarthyism ([41:05])

Chelsea critiques Ginger Rogers’ memoir, especially her mother’s role in promoting McCarthyism:

“She started McCarthyism, ruining Hollywood careers, portrayed in a “very polite and terse” manner” ([41:16]).

This reflection offers a historical context to personal narratives within celebrity memoirs.

9. Lee Grant’s Blacklisting and Facelift ([42:12])

Jeff discusses Lee Grant’s memoir where she details being blacklisted during the McCarthy era and her decision to get a facelift at 30 to salvage her career:

“She got a facelift to stay relevant in Hollywood after being blacklisted” ([43:17]).

This act symbolizes the lengths to which celebrities must go to navigate industry politics.

10. Kathleen Hannah and Ione Sky’s Dual Love Stories ([44:16])

Chelsea marvels at the unique narrative structure where both Kathleen Hannah and Ione Sky recount different perspectives of the same love story with Adam Horovitz, the Beastie Boy:

“Both memoirs beautifully capture different sides of the same relationship, offering a comprehensive view” ([44:28]).

This dual narrative approach enriches the understanding of complex relationships in celebrity lives.

Notable Quotes

• Jeff Hiller ([15:20]): “Rue confesses to having a sexual affair with Robert Guillaume... his lovemaking was a 10.”

• Chelsea Devantez ([07:06]): “If you're having a dreary, depressed gal summer... what are memoirs you should take on your trip?”

• Jeff Hiller ([09:17]): “There’s a typo on the COVID of my book.”

• Chelsea Devantez ([41:26]): “Everything else is part of this one love story both exist in celebrity memoirs.”

Conclusions and Takeaways

Chelsea and Jeff emphasize the crucial role of celebrity memoirs in revealing the authentic, often unfiltered experiences of individuals in the spotlight. These memoirs offer readers an inside look at the complexities of fame, personal struggles, and the multifaceted nature of public personas. The episode underscores the diversity of memoir narratives—from humorous and lighthearted to deeply emotional and harrowing—highlighting why these stories resonate so powerfully with audiences.

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Additional Highlights:

• Book Recommendations: Jeff promotes his memoir, Actress of a, discussing its positive reception and the humorous typo on the book cover ([09:12]).

• Community and Activism: Chelsea passionately discusses the importance of community action against ICE raids, encouraging listeners to participate in the "No Kings" protests ([04:00]).

• Personal Anecdotes: Both hosts share personal connections to the memoirs discussed, adding a relatable and engaging layer to the conversation.

Supporting the Podcast

Chelsea expresses gratitude to the podcast team and encourages listeners to support independent bookstores through Libro.fm, offering a special discount code “Trash” for new members.

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This episode is a treasure trove for fans of celebrity memoirs, offering insightful discussions, memorable moments, and a genuine appreciation for the stories that shape our understanding of fame and personal identity.

Transcript

[Chelsea Devantez]

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[Jeff Hiller]

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[Chelsea Devantez]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host, Chelsea Devantez. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And Today's episode is 10 must know moments from celebrity memoirs, 10 outrageous moments, stories that are out there existing and celebrity memoirs. These are the 10 best ones. And I'm so excited for this episode. I was inspired to do this because of our incredible guest. But before we get into the good stuff, the fun stuff, I gotta tell ya, there is no new episodes dropping next week. And the reason why is because we originally had some big stuff planned. I shot a pilot presentation and there was a big premiere event for it on Monday. And then we were gonna open it up to a virtual screening for everyone who is on Patreon. And that will still be happening, but we are postponing it about a month because our event space for our premiere just happened to be right in the downtown area of Los Angeles. It is a very, very small area, unlike the news would have you believe, where there are some incredible peaceful protests against the ICE raids happening in our community. And, and Trump has sent in the National Guard in the Marines against the state's wishes, against our governor's wishes to stop these peaceful protests. And they are firing less lethal firearms, that's what they call them, at the protesters. And so we have obviously pushed that event off. And if you're listening to this podcast on Friday, there is something very important happening on Saturday that we should all do with our energy Instead, and it is called, called no Kings. It is a no Kings national wide protest. There are peaceful protests happening all across the country. There are 1500 events set up in different towns, in different cities. If there's not one in your town, go to nokings.org you can schedule one nokings.org all the information is there to protest peacefully, to stand up against what Trump is doing in this country and, and listen to this hot little fact. It only takes 3.5% of the population engaging in peaceful protests in order to stop authoritarianism from spreading. So let's be part of that 3.5%. Let's be the people and listen. I realize this is a celebrity memoir podcast and if you're new here, you're like, what's going on? But listen, this is a classic high low podcast. We go high low, we go low, we're in the trash. But we do glamorous stuff. And I know undoubtedly by doing this, I will get some more reviews telling me to stop being political. But that's fine. That is a price I'm happy to pay. I'm happy to pay whatever price this cost me because I believe in this community more than anything. I know for all of the messages we could get one way, there are people listening who believe and really care and will do something. And I believe in this community and the cookies and the people listening so, so much. So thank you so much for being here because this is how we're gonna get through stuff like this, by staying in community. So go to nokings.org even, you know, listen, give it a read, give it a scroll. And now, okay, we're gonna pivot back to the trash. This is gonna be a wildly juicy episode. Let's get back into the fun of it. Today we are getting into the juiciest, juiciest, juiciest moments with my guest, Jeff Hiller, who wrote a new memoir, Actress of a. It came out this week on June 10th. I got an early copy and I am loving it. I'm loving it. If you love this podcast, you are going to love this memoir because Jeff himself loves celebrity memoirs just as much as I do and has read hundreds of them. And a lot of moments in his book call out celebrity memoirs that we have read. So you're going to love it. Now you know Jeff Hiller from 30 Rock, crazy ex girlfriend, Somebody Somewhere, and films like Morning Glory and Set It Up. He's performed on Broadway and improvises at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater in Los Angeles. I am so excited to Talk to him. So let's dive in. Okay. I messaged you on Instagram. I said I'm obsessed with you. I don't. I don't understand how you don't know that we're twins. I love your book. Your book is so fantastic. Fantastic. I love it so much. And you are the only person I've ever met, ever, that has the same celebrity memoir obsession at the level that I do. And so I realized we have to do a podcast episode where we each tell each other our five moments from celebrity memoirs that you like. Must know is what I'm thinking, because they are. Throughout your memoir, every chapter title starts with the title of another celebrity memoir. So have you already been asked to name your, like, top three celebrity memoirs?

[Jeff Hiller]

Yes, I have.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And.

[Jeff Hiller]

But the thing, it's like picking your children, you know?

[Chelsea Devantez]

I know. And you need it like a mood, a time, a place. Like, it needs to be like, favorite celebrity memoirs for a depressed summer in Venice.

[Jeff Hiller]

Exactly. Your fun, light little thing. The dishi est. The saltiest.

[Chelsea Devantez]

You're going through family hell. You need a dark, fucked up memoir.

[Jeff Hiller]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, you know what? So let me ask you a little more specifically. What if you're having a dreary, depressed gal summer, but you still managed to book a staycay at a bargain Airbnb with a hot tub that's questionably clean? What are some memoirs you should take on your trip?

[Jeff Hiller]

Okay. For summers, but it's a depressing summer. Okay. I feel like now these are. And I'm just giving you some good ones just that are for this specific example.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes.

[Jeff Hiller]

Okay.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, yes.

[Jeff Hiller]

So I would say, well, Linda Gray, who did play Sue Ellen on Dallas, her and Stephanie Powers have two of the frothiest, most meaningless memoirs I have ever read and enjoyed every single morsel of it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I've never read those two.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah, there's a lot of, like, advice about how to wear your hair, things like that, but it does lighten a mood.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Sure, sure.

[Jeff Hiller]

Whereas, like, if you're, like, if you're in that depressed summer and you read Paris Hilton's one about the teen kid when schools.

[Chelsea Devantez]

The teen kid camps for torture cults. Yeah, it might.

[Jeff Hiller]

You might just sink it underneath the water and you might not come back. You might not.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yep, I think that's absolutely right. And your memoir, it is. Frothy is such a great word. It has. It's frothy and has extreme depth, which are the two qualities I'm always looking for. It's why I started this podcast, which is like, let's have fun. Let's fuck around. Let's talk about Ashton Kutcher not believing in that alcoholism is real. So he ends his relationship with Demi Moore. You know what I mean?

[Jeff Hiller]

Remember? And she was like. She was like. He just told me he couldn't imagine being in Greece and not having a lovely glass of red wine. I was like, no, Demi, no.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And he couldn't imagine having a partner who didn't have a glass with him. Like, he couldn't just do it alone. He's like, I must. I must watch you drink a beer. Yes, exactly. But then getting into, like, I don't know why your partner would do that. And getting deep and dark. Okay, I saw something on Instagram seven minutes ago. It was a video from you talking about a typo on the book cover. Can you please explain? Can you please explain this?

[Jeff Hiller]

Well, I wish I had a better explanation than just, there's a typo on the COVID of my book. But the explanation is there's a typo on the COVID of my book.

[Chelsea Devantez]

But it's only on the spine.

[Jeff Hiller]

Only. That's the part you see the most when it's on the shelf.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Well, not when it's facing front as a bestseller, Jeff. So we gotta get. Y' all gotta keep buying it so that book stays flat in front.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah, so we can put it on an easel.

[Chelsea Devantez]

That's right. That's right. I want to know what your editor and publisher said to you about this as. Because I. Listen, I went through this whole process too. You get sent the PDF, you sign off on the thing. Everyone 10, 10 to 27 people go, okay, this is the book cover. So how did one with a typo get sent to the printer? What'd they say?

[Jeff Hiller]

Well, first of all, I didn't recognize it either. I didn't see it either. So, like, I can't be always.

[Chelsea Devantez]

But when you go back to your emails and they're like, here's the PDF of your cover. Do you see it or is. Cause I think there was a file swap. I'm on the case now, and I believe someone sent, like, a previous draft after sending everyone else the correct draft. That's where I'm at.

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, my God. This is.

[Chelsea Devantez]

You have to check your emails.

[Jeff Hiller]

I really haven't done it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I haven't done that.

[Jeff Hiller]

I should. Okay, I'm going to do that.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, but what did they say?

[Jeff Hiller]

Well, they were very mortified and they apologized, and they also said it was too expensive to change it now. And, you know, look, I'm not Barbra Streisand. This book is, you know, just about me. And I'm. I'm. You know, I have a very tiny platform. I get it. I get it. And here's the. Really. In the end, like, my whole thing is about how sort of imperfect life is so perfect.

[Chelsea Devantez]

So in many ways, you manifested it.

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, my God, Chelsea, I'm worried. I did. I'm worried. I did.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I know, I know. No, this is truly incredible. And when you go to paperback, you'll be able to, like, talk about this in the bonus content. You should demand a new cover when you go to paperback. And you held a contest to have the best joke about it. So, like, it's so fun. And, yeah, I was. When you publish a memoir, I heard things like, there's not enough of an ink budget for this. It's like, ink budget? And they're like, yeah, line by line. I mean, long story won't go into it, but some of the stuff in my book had to get censored. And they were literally like, we don't believe we've given you the ink budget to do the censor blocks that legal is requiring of you. And I'm like, bitch, you made me censor this. You find the ink budget. So, yes, I can only imagine what they said about the printing of glossy, glossy hardbacks.

[Jeff Hiller]

Well, the nice thing is I did get a black car service to my signing last night because I think they felt guilty that they had a typo.

[Chelsea Devantez]

You better fucking get that car everywhere you go. Okay, So I just want to tell everyone that you have to buy Jeff's book. If you listen to this podcast, you love celebrity memoirs. You have written 10 out of 10, 100 out of 100. Like, it's what you do when you've also read hundreds and hundreds of memoirs.

[Jeff Hiller]

It's true. Like, yeah, we get it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I want to tell you a few things, then we're going to dive into our fun game, which is that we both referenced in our memoirs, other memoirs, telling us the story of their grandparents and how much we hate it. We both told obscenely detailed stories about our assholes.

[Jeff Hiller]

Listen, I have not read your book yet, and I am running to the store right now.

[Chelsea Devantez]

You got a book tour? To be honest, you gotta focus. Like, this is. But here's what I'll say. As soon as you're done with your book tour, things have died down. I am begging you to come back as many times as you can, at least once to do another book with me, because the amount of things I was Circling, crying, being like, you're my soulmate. You're my soulmate. I also used to watch you improvise at UCP in New York City when I was there. And so I've been a longtime fan, but I didn't actually know that we're Twin Flames, and we should join the cult together, if you're interested.

[Jeff Hiller]

Listen, I will be in that cult, so be careful.

[Chelsea Devantez]

We also have that in common. There was one other thing I loved, which is people will often say, like, why are there so many interviews of actors who were literally about to quit?

[Jeff Hiller]

And.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And then they got succession or like, what's her face? She's literally about to quit. And then she got shits cracked. But she's like, everyone, it was the day they quit, and that's when they got their big break. And one day I realized, because every day we want to quit. Yes. Every day is the day I quit this industry.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yes, exactly. Yes.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And you wrote about that beautifully, where you were like, I quit. And then you got your big break. And then you were like, but also, I was never going to quit because why did I do the fucking audition if I quit?

[Jeff Hiller]

Exactly, Exactly.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Because every day you want to quit every day, it's a nightmare until it's.

[Jeff Hiller]

Quite like, how do you keep hope alive? I'm like, oh, no. Stupid.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Be stupid. Drunk hot tub me. Read books. Yeah. Addicted to pain. No. And I'm so glad you did, because you're so incredible, and everyone in our Patreon loves your show. Somebody, somewhere, there's always chat threads popping up about it. And it's also just one of the few shows that is about, like, working class normalcy. It's like y' all and Roseanne. So.

[Jeff Hiller]

Wow, what a weird Venn diagram.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, so I just think we should go back and forth. Let's see if we get to 10 between us of your most. Like, when people are like, you read celebrity memoirs, you're like, listen, here's five things you have to know from memoirs you've read. What would you say is one of those, like, everybody has to know this moment exists in a memoir?

[Jeff Hiller]

Well, I put this in my book, so it's already out.

[Chelsea Devantez]

There's so many in your book, and you should say all of them.

[Jeff Hiller]

But this is the one that sticks in my brain the most. I read Rue McClanahan's book, My First Five Husbands and the Ones who Got Away. And in it, she confesses to having a sexual affair with Robert Guillaume, who played Benson on Benson, and she calls him Mr. Guillaume whole time. And she said his lovemaking was a 10.

[Chelsea Devantez]

She rates everyone's lovemaking throughout the book on a numerical scale and A through F, which I love. Why didn't I do that in my memoir? There would have been so many Fs. Because I dated comedians.

[Jeff Hiller]

That's very kind of you, actually.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Right. To not do that.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah, exactly. Well, not. Ru. Ru said that Robert Guillaume was really sexy, and I'm a child of the 80s, so I watched Benson, and I wanted to be, you know, not Tracy Gold. Tracy Gold was on Growing Paints. It was her sister who was on Brandi Gold or something like that, who was on Benson. And I wanted to be her so badly. And meanwhile, old Benson was going and bending Blanche over the table, and Blanche.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Was bending him right back. I would say that is a top ten celebrity memoir. Rue's. What do you think?

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, I loved it. Yeah, it's definitely my top 10, for sure.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It's fantastic. And her ghostwriter, co author Joanie Rogers, wrote an email into this podcast after we covered it. And I got to be. I want to call myself Joanie's friend, but maybe friendly. Like. We're friendly. I love her. She also wrote Paris Hilton's memoir.

[Jeff Hiller]

The one about the. The kids.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, the one about the kids and the school, because there's no. It's a torture center. Prison marketed as a rehabilitation. There's not a good name for.

[Jeff Hiller]

It's like the, you know, Scared straight stuff. Yeah, that's what it is.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, and you got to be good friends with her.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Well, yeah, we've book clubbed together. She helped me a little bit, like, when I was struggling with my memoir. She was. She's. Yeah, I love her. And she's just. Those are two of, like, some of the best celebrity memoirs both in her hand.

[Jeff Hiller]

I would say both of those are. Yeah. Up in the top. Because I fell in love with Paris Hilton after that book.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I know. I think we all did.

[Jeff Hiller]

I confess. I was not in love previously.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I was scared out of my goddamn gourd that I was gonna hate it because I saw Joanie in the thank yous and I said, oh, no. What if I can't love this book? And. Yeah. No. Loved Paris through it. Okay. Yes. I love that moment also. Are you. Ever since that Rue McClanahan Emmy speech where she's like, for those of you who fucked with me, you'll be in the book.

[Jeff Hiller]

You'll be in the book. Yes. That is so crazy. I was just gonna bring that up. Wow, we really are twin flames.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I Told you we're. I told you we're going in the cult together. I think they have, like, a home in, like, rural Kansas now, and, like, we're gonna mow their lawns and take the twin flame test. Yes. I think we'll play a little bit of it here on the podcast, because that thing is sent to me, like, once a week, which I consider a high honor.

[Jeff Hiller]

My mother said to me once, oh, Eddie Rue, for heaven's sake, don't you know every kick's a boost? And I've remembered that over the past 27 years, there've been a lot of.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Kicks, and there've been a lot of boosts. I'm not going to mention the people.

[Jeff Hiller]

Who gave me the kicks. But you know who you are.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And.

[Jeff Hiller]

You'Ll be in the book.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay. Before I move on, did you. I haven't finished the book. Did you settle a score with anyone the way Rue did?

[Jeff Hiller]

No, not really.

[Chelsea Devantez]

You're a sweetheart.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah, I mean, that's nice there. What's funny is I put in a story about Tea Leone because I was in a movie with Tea Leone where she said something kind of harsh to me, but it was, like, funny. And that's the reason I put it in. And now people are like, I can't believe Tea Leone did that horrible thing. And I'm like, look, as actors who have worked with me who are bad, she is not even in the top 10.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah. You're like, that story's in there. Cause it's funny, not Cause it ruined my life.

[Jeff Hiller]

There are so many more meanier people that I've worked with.

[Chelsea Devantez]

But, you know, although, what a great, like, tale. Ode. Like, hadn't thought about her in a second. Like, that's a great. Like, that's a great cameo.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah, it's a very specific star.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Star. Okay, I'm gonna give you one of my moments. Celine Dion takes the subway. Have you read her memoir?

[Jeff Hiller]

No, I have not read Celine Dion's.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Another Gift to this world because she's 30, so she's five years post marriage to Renee, and she wants to convince the world that their love is true, and unwittingly writes a memoir about being groomed. So that part's actually quite sad. But within it, the grooming is so crazy and so intense, and it starts so young. She's so young. She's 12. Right. That it makes so many things in her life make sense. Like, do you remember when she was watching Hurricane Katrina, like, you know, destroying New Orleans, and she sang on the news and donated A million dollars. It's just very frustrating that Franco and Conscious west and me. Oh, $1 million. This is one thing. In three months, in six months, they will need that money. Right now, they're praying for what? Water. So we need to send them the water. They don't care about my check. So it's just frustrating because on our parts of the world, we're trying our best, and we're expecting those people.

[Jeff Hiller]

Your check will turn into something. I know you got to go on soon, but we couldn't spend any time with you without asking you. Do you have any kind of thing you would like to sing that fits this moment?

[Chelsea Devantez]

Well, the only song that comes to my mind right now is definitely a Prayer. I did sing that song a few years back with Andrea Bocelli. I'll do my best. I pray you'll be all eyes and watch us where we go and help us to be wise in times when we don't know. Do you remember this? She just like, acapella sings, and you're sort of like, what happened? And when you read her memoir, by the way, this is not my Moment. When you read her memoir, you're like, oh, one, she'd never seen the news. The news before. No one had ever shown her the news. This was the first time she saw the news. And she was like, oh, my God, you guys are terrible. We gotta do something. And two, Renee had been whispering in her ear since she was 12 that her voice is a gift that heals the world. So when Larry King is like, is there something you can do? She's like, I guess I will sing for the people. Cause it'll prob clear up the floods. I love her so much.

[Jeff Hiller]

So sweet and beautiful.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It's so sweet and beautiful, but it's also so sad. And anyways, there's this moment where she's gonna be late for a concert. And she describes having to take the subway in Montreal. And it's, like, the craziest night of her life. And she's discussing, like, what the subway, like, was below and how they had to get on the train. She, like, couldn't believe it, and it was dirty. And I was just like, oh, my God. This is. Yeah, she'd never taken the subway before, and it blew her fucking mind.

[Jeff Hiller]

She had to write a chapter about it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

She was like, y' all ain't gonna believe this. I mean, it's like the wind is blowing. Renee is holding her close as they, like, push through the crowds, and it's just, like, scary. And I was like, yeah, you know what? Taking the subway is pretty scary if you've never done it before.

[Jeff Hiller]

It's as scary as the news.

[Chelsea Devantez]

If you've ever only gone by limo and carriage, taking the subway will fuck you up.

[Jeff Hiller]

I love the idea that she's done a lot of transportation by carriage.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I think. Listen, Renee loved to make that fairytale true, you know?

[Jeff Hiller]

Yes, I do know.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, Jeff, do you have another moment?

[Jeff Hiller]

I do. This one is Brooke Shields. She talks about how.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Which memoir.

[Jeff Hiller]

The second one about her mom.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yep.

[Jeff Hiller]

She talks about how Liam Neeson proposed marriage to her. And then he said, I have to go back to la, but when I come back to New York, we'll talk about it, we'll plan the wedding. And then he left for la, and then he never spoke to her again.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Ever. And she's like calling throughout the night, like, thinking he's dead. Right. And then just has to realize, like, she's been ghosted by way of pushed into a cab.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yes, exactly.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Like, he's like, here, you ghost me, you get in a cab and go to la.

[Jeff Hiller]

And then I was on Watch what Happens live as the bartender and she was the guest.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes.

[Jeff Hiller]

And somebody called in and asked her about that and she was just like, yeah, you know, I think he was young.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Too much grace. Now, here's what I don't remember. Was she still. She was still a virgin then too, right? Like, she was a virgin dating Liam Neeson.

[Jeff Hiller]

She lost her virginity to Dean Cain, you know, Superman.

[Chelsea Devantez]

That's right. Yes.

[Jeff Hiller]

Because they were both at Princeton together.

[Chelsea Devantez]

That's right. Okay, Lynn Spears thinks she's starting a jewelry line and accidentally gets her daughter managed by a psychopath abuser. Do you remember that story?

[Jeff Hiller]

Hey.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be right back. You may recall that early in my marriage, my husband banned me from the kitchen from cooking so horribly. Listen, I did take this as a victory within my marriage, but I do want to learn to cook. Mostly cuz I just want to eat good food. Every time I look up a recipe, I have to like, read a whole story about, like, someone's trip to Paris and I don't want it. And that is why every plate has been life changing. When you use every plate, you get restaurant level deliciousness week after week. But for a super affordable cost, I chose the vegetarian option. And I'm so excited to try the southwest queso stuffed peppers with pico de gallo and garlic bread. I love good food, but if I'm making it home it has to be easy, it has to taste good, and it has to be affordable. And every plate is all of those things. What are you waiting for? Dig into these flavor packed meals your household will love. New customers can enjoy this very special offer of only $1.99ameal. Go to everyplate.com podcast and use code glamorous199 to get started. Applied as a discount on the first box, limited time only and enjoy. I think you're on mute. Workday starting to sound the same.

[Jeff Hiller]

I think you're on mute.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn. With LinkedIn job collections you can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or Hybrid Workplaces so you can find the right job for you. Get [e-mail] jobs finding where you fit LinkedIn knows how this episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top, or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion eBay things people love. Okay, let's dive back into the episode.

[Jeff Hiller]

Wait, is this the one in Britney's book or in Lynn's book?

[Chelsea Devantez]

It's in Lynn's book.

[Jeff Hiller]

I haven't read Lynn's. I've only read Britney's.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Well, good for you. You know, we shouldn't be giving her money or time. Okay, for anyone who. For anyone who has listened to this podcast a lot, they're probably like, Chelsea, I can't hear this story for the sixth time, but if you're new, if you've come by way of Jeff, I have to tell you this story about Sam Lufty, who was Britney Spears manager when she was walked into her conservatorship. He was also Courtney Love's manager and Amanda Bynes. And so here's what happened. Lynn Spears is driving along in Los Angeles. You know, she's just having a day and she gets a phone call on her cell phone. She doesn't recognize the number, but she picks up anyway. She's Lynn Spears. Why not? And on the other line she hears, hello, Britney Spears has had drugs planted on her by Kevin Federline in hopes to throw her in jail. Click. And Lynn goes, who was that? And she drives over to Brittany's house and they search her for drugs, and they don't know what happened, and she didn't have drugs on her. And so then three months later, the phone rings again, and it's the same voice. And he goes, hello? And she's like, you're that guy who called me about drugs. And he's like, that's right. And he says, I'm starting a new jewelry line and I think you'd be an amazing ambassador. And she says, I'd love to. I'd love to meet with you and have lunch. I'd love to have lunch with you. Random man who got my phone number who previously called me about drugs. Because Lynn has desperately wanted to be famous. She meets him at a restaurant where he introduces her to a jewelry line that they will sell to qvc. And it'll be Lynn's line. It's chunky necklaces, it's turquoise, it's like all the works. And she's like, I really wanted to be a part of a jewelry line. And he seemed so nice. And so I said I would do this jewelry line. And then he became Britney Spears manager. Never talked to me again. And got her on drugs. And then we had to put her in a conservatorship. Oops.

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, my God. First of all, I just love the idea that somebody's like, I just always wanted my own jewelry line.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It's also like, you're famous. Why don't just make. Just make one, Lynn. Just make. Just go to qvc, be like, I'm Britney Spears mom. She's very famous. Can I have a jewelry line? And also. Yeah. So basically, like, the whole reason this man, who'd never been a music manager before, never managed anything in his life, became Britney Spears manager was because Lynn answered a shady phone call twice and wanted a jewelry lineup.

[Jeff Hiller]

The other people he managed were Amanda Bynes and Courtney Love. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Doesn't that have fucking weird crossover?

[Jeff Hiller]

It does.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Listen, y' all, I need this podcast to be popular for many reasons, but the number one is. Cause I keep saying this and nobody's picking it up. I'm breaking news over here. Okay. Do you have another. Do you have another moment for me?

[Jeff Hiller]

I do. I have read two full length memoirs by Candice Birkin.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Wow. Because I've only read the second one, and that almost broke me.

[Jeff Hiller]

To find romance. I love to find romance. Because she always talks about what she's wearing. She's always just like, I was Wearing an ice blue off the shoulder chiffon dress. And I'm always like, okay, whatever.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah. With my drapery from Italiano with the porcelain creme crust at the tassels.

[Jeff Hiller]

Exactly. But you're like, oh, I get why your daughter works for Vogue. But anyway.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, well, in the book, isn't she like, I helped her get right for Vogue. Cause I took her horseback with what's her face. Who runs Vogue?

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, Anna Wintour.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It wasn't Anna Wintour. It was like someone. Anna Wintour.

[Jeff Hiller]

It was Polly Draper. I think maybe that's right.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It was someone willing to get on a horse.

[Jeff Hiller]

Exactly. You're right. Anna Wintour would not be on a horse. Okay, so in her first book, which is called Knock on Wood, which talks a lot about growing up, her father was a famous ventriloquist on the radio. Yes, a ventriloquist on the radio. Charlie McCarthy.

[Chelsea Devantez]

That is. I just don't. Okay, sure. I accept.

[Jeff Hiller]

She is self aware of that. She talks about how that's so funny. But she was dating Terry Melcher, who was God, Doris Day's son, I believe. And he one time met Charles Manson. And Charles Manson was like, you're gonna give me a record contract? And he was like, I don't think so.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay.

[Jeff Hiller]

And then he moved out of their house that he lived in with Candice Bergen, and they moved to their mom. His mom's house. Doris Day's house or. Yeah, Doris Day, I think.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay.

[Jeff Hiller]

And they sublet it to Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate. And then Charles Manson went to that house. And they believe he went to. He sent his followers to that house. Cause he had been there because he was with Terry Melcher trying to get a record contract. And when Terry Meltzer told Candice Bergen about it, she said, oh, my God, that could have been us. And he said, how dare you? It was Roman.

[Chelsea Devantez]

That's incredible. Oh, my God, that could have been us. How dare you. It was Roman.

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, she's had a crazy life. She was also at the Black and White Ball. Truman Capote's Black and White ball.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Really? Okay. Which we just recently read Griffin Dunn's book.

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, I read that one too.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, yes. And didn't he say that that ball was stolen from his dad? That Truman Capote came and had such a good time that he redid it and then didn't invite.

[Jeff Hiller]

He didn't invite Dominic Dunne.

[Chelsea Devantez]

He didn't invite Dominic Dunne. Oh, my God.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah, it's all good.

[Chelsea Devantez]

What a brilliant. Also, I. Yeah, I unfortunately read Candace's second memoir first. And I was like, I don't know if I can go and do the good one now because. Do you remember how Candace's second memoir ends? It's talking about how good the movie Maleficent is. She like. It's like. And then I went and saw Maleficent. It was, like, pretty good. And then she's like, talking about the. The performances. It's like a pretty good film. And, like, she really likes it. And, like, that's how the book ends. And I was like. And then in the acknowledgments, she's like, I wrote this whole thing from my iPad and I think over 10 years, and I thought my editor might kill me, but we finally did it. And I'm like, that's right. You finally found an ending when you saw Maleficent.

[Jeff Hiller]

This is exactly where I was aiming my book to go.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes. Yes, exactly. Okay, I want to give honorable mention to Delta Burke being given meth as a weight loss drug. I read that one and talking. Oh, that one's one of my. That was the first memoir I ever read. Really?

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, my God, I love it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Wait, what was the first celebrity memoir you ever read?

[Jeff Hiller]

Ooh, that's such a good question. It's been a minute.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I know, right?

[Jeff Hiller]

I'm sure it was a woman.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Well, of course.

[Jeff Hiller]

Over 40, but I don't know. Actually, that's such. I don't know. That makes me sad.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Ooh, well. Or I should be happy you had so many.

[Jeff Hiller]

That's true. That's true.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, well, here's a different question. Has there ever been a men's More that you enjoyed?

[Jeff Hiller]

I really liked Alan Cummings. Yeah, the one that's.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Everyone has said that one's the one.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. There's one about how he found out his dad is not his real dad. I read that one too. And that one's kind of. I mean, it's actually really well written, but it's very sad. But then there's another one called Tales of a well Lived Life or whatever, and that one's really good. It's kind of dishy.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I feel like that's the one you have to come back and do on the podcast. Okay, good. If you're willing, I'd love to. Okay, well, then I will give a men's more moment, which is that. And actually, I'm gonna call in. I'm gonna call in three memoirs for this story.

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh, wow.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Which is Burt Reynolds first memoir and Burt Reynolds second memoir, which both end with the same exact same copy pasted paragraph about how the hair on his head is so thick from being part Cherokee that when he dies, his skull will still have a full head of hair. That is copy pasted. The ending of both memoirs. And now I want to call in my third memoir, Dolly Parton, who tells fun stories about his wig coming off while they're on set and how he used to wear high heels to be taller. Famously wears a piece. And in his memoir twice talks about how his hair's so strong his skull is gonna have a full mane on it.

[Jeff Hiller]

Maybe that's why. Because it's just glued on there. It's not coming out of his head.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, you're right. Maybe they sewed it. Sewed it into the bone. But. And that's. I think that's my favorite men's moir moment.

[Jeff Hiller]

That's a good one. That's a really good one.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah. Now can you imagine, like, because the second memoir is written years after the Dolly one where she's been like, here's fun things I used to do when his wig flipped up. Hahaha. And then just like fully being like, my head of hair is real. Love Burt Reynolds. Like, didn't care. Didn't care.

[Jeff Hiller]

I tried to listen to that book and he's so old in the second one that he's like, hush, hush, hush, hush, hush, hush. And you're like, no, what are you saying? I cannot understand what you're saying. Same. No, you cannot hear it at all. Because I do love to listen to a memoir.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah. Oh, especially when they're performing. What's your favorite recent audio performance of a memoir? Because mine's going out to Mariah Carey who sings and does impressions.

[Jeff Hiller]

You know what Leslie Jones is. It's very clear that she, like, is not reading it. She's just like retelling you the story. Like she's not following along on the page.

[Chelsea Devantez]

That's so fun. That is so fun that you would get a totally different experience.

[Jeff Hiller]

I think so. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay. Do you have another memoir moment for me?

[Jeff Hiller]

I do. Mine is from Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Our Queen.

[Jeff Hiller]

Our queen. Did you read that one?

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, yeah. I like, listen. She and I shop at the same bra store, which I know from what reading her memoir. Deeply invested.

[Jeff Hiller]

Oh my God. Now that. Well, if I found out I shopped at the same bra store as Elvira.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It'S Fredericks of Hollywood and the bra is called XXXX Cleavage bra. So it's like not something great to admit or something I would have wanted to say on a podcast, but when she said it, I was like, we're in, baby.

[Jeff Hiller]

I'm gonna own it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It's just like a little plastic crane for your titties.

[Jeff Hiller]

Listen, I have enough. I could probably do it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Should you get one like, oh, you're gonna love it. You're gonna love it. It makes just the best decolletage.

[Jeff Hiller]

Well, okay. So she's very vulnerable in that thing too. Cassandra Peterson is her real name. And she talks about how, as a child, she accidentally. Or, like, as a little baby, she, like, pulled a pot of boiling water over her head. And so she had burns all over her body. And then she was a Vegas showgirl, and she had sex with Tom Jones. And he had, like, this one night stand with her, and for him, it was just like another woman. And then she came back. I don't know if she lost her virginity to him, but it was like, she has not experienced a lot at that moment. And she came back and was like, hi, it's me again. And she goes, wait, do you not remember me? And he said, how could I ever forget those burns?

[Chelsea Devantez]

Such a fucking monster. A monster monster. And, yeah, she was. Wasn't she, like, the youngest showgirl? Like, I think she was, like, 17 when she, like, shouldn't have been up there. So she's young.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. Poor baby.

[Chelsea Devantez]

That's so painful. And then Elvis has taken her up to his room, but he's just like, you've been nice up there. Stay safe, little gal.

[Jeff Hiller]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And she's like, have sex with me. Oh, that is such a good moment. I'm so glad you brought that up. Her memoir is incredible. It really. I love her. I love it, and I love her. And also, a fellow bangs queen. My husband, on our first date, told me I looked like Elvira, and I said, I'm gonna marry this man. Guess we're getting hitched.

[Jeff Hiller]

Baby, wait till you take off my top and see my bra.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Wait till you see. Wait till. Listen. Same cleavage, eh? Just being molded through Fredericks of Hollywood plastic bras.

[Jeff Hiller]

She's in that Paul Rubens documentary, too.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Now, I wish we had the bandwidth to just cover that documentary on this podcast, because isn't it one of the. I can't stop thinking about it.

[Jeff Hiller]

Me neither. He is such an artist. I just have so much respect for him. And I know that there was, like, difficulty with the filmmaker, and he was, like, not as forthcoming as the filmmaker wanted him to be, but I just. I don't care. I respect him. Paul Rubens, I mean, yeah.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And also, the difficulty was shown in the documentary, which was cool. And he reminded me of Robin Williams in the way of, like, you will not be able to interview me because I will outbid you. Like, I will do so many bits and I will be so funny that you will lose control of the interview.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And you can see how funny he's being. But as, like, a means of protection. But also, it is so funny. And. Ugh. I. When I'm ready, I'm gonna watch it again. I cried so hard in the second half. When you just see his life stolen from him. Okay, okay. I have lost track of our moments, but I feel like I have one more.

[Jeff Hiller]

So I think we're four years.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, you have one more. Okay. Okay. And I'll do. I'll do. I have two more. So I'll do one. You. Okay. Then we'll go back. Okay. I'm gonna give another honorable mention to Britney Spears being serenaded by Justin Timberlake during her abortion. But since that has been so widely covered, I'm gonna talk about how Ginger Rogers mom started McCarthyism as a fun club and is the person who, like, destroyed Hollywood and got artists blacklisted for being associated with the Communist Party and ruined. Right.

[Jeff Hiller]

Her and, like, Louella Parsons.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, that's right. She ruined, like, a decade of Hollywood talent and maybe even more. She, like, destroyed Hollywood. And Ginger was like. Yeah. She was looking for something to do.

[Jeff Hiller]

Meanwhile. Backwards and heels.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, anything. Backwards and heels. Gals, will you please sign my petition?

[Jeff Hiller]

That is. I gotta read that.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It's a really, really bad book. Like, it is. I'm serious. It is, like, one of the worst memoirs. Because Ginger is, like. Like, her mom raised her to be, is, like, very polite and terse and can't understand the filth in Hollywood. So then it's just her being like. And then I did this. Correct. And then I asked for this dress. I got it. As it should be. I did this movie. I had a lovely time. My mother destroyed people's lives. And that's how it should be. We have spaghetti and tennis and 7up. And we hated drinking. You all are disgusting. Love, Ginger Rogers. Sorry, did you want an impression of the book? That's.

[Jeff Hiller]

Listen, now I don't have to read it, so I really appreciate that.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Don't. Don't. Do not, do not, do not. Okay, I am ready for your final moment.

[Jeff Hiller]

Okay, so this one is a little bit of a deep cut. It's Lee Grant's book. Do you know who Lee Grant is?

[Chelsea Devantez]

No.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah, it's a deep cut.

[Chelsea Devantez]

The general.

[Jeff Hiller]

No, that's Lee and Grant.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, okay, okay, you're right. Put them together, maybe. Thought maybe they did like a duo thing.

[Jeff Hiller]

Okay, so Lee Grant won an Oscar for the movie Shampoo.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, yes, I know. Shampoo.

[Jeff Hiller]

Yeah. And she. Okay, so she was blacklisted in Hollywood, speaking of the McCarthyism.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh my God.

[Jeff Hiller]

Because basically she went to her grandfather's funeral and there happened to be a communist there or something. And she was like, I wasn't even political, I don't know what happened. And so she got an Oscar nomination for Police story in like 1959. And then she was just blacklisted. And so she didn't work again until the 70s. But because she was worried about not working, she decided to get a facelift at 30. 30. She got a facelift 30.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And because she was what, like for funsies? Or she was like, get it done now?

[Jeff Hiller]

It wasn't for funsies. It was because she wanted to. She thought that that would maybe help her career. And her mother was just sort of like, you're the gold beauty. You need beauty.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And then become a baby again.

[Jeff Hiller]

Exactly. And now then she had a baby, by the way. She became a director in her 50s and like, has been working until her 90s. I mean, she's like this kind of insane story. Her book is called I said yes to Everything.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh my God. Including the facelift. Uh huh. Exactly.

[Jeff Hiller]

And then her daughter was Dinah Manoff, who played Marty Maraschino in Grease and then was on Empty Nest.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh my God, that was absolutely fantastic. Please tell everyone your favorite place for them to buy your book, support your book. Listen, you've read hundreds, I've read hundreds. This is a great memoir. I promise you guys. Where can they buy it at bookshop.

[Jeff Hiller]

And then you can say which different local bookstore that you want to support. You can also order a signed copy from the Strand. We just sold out, but they asked me to come back and sign more new ones, so I'm gonna be doing it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I'm sorry, you already sold out? You fancy things? 10 of them. That is awesome. Yeah. That's huge. That's a lot. You are incredible. I adore you. Thank you so much for your book. I've been saving it for like when I. I need a pick me up and it's just been a light. And thank you so much for coming on.

[Jeff Hiller]

Thank you. I cannot believe I didn't know this podcast was around. Cause I am gonna listen to the funk out of it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Well, you're gonna be on it, so you're gonna get sick of It. You're like, ugh, I go on that old thing all the time. I have a real job. I'm famous, I make millions. But this bitch will not stop booking me on her podcast. That's what's gonna happen.

[Jeff Hiller]

Listen, if I can make millions out of this, that's great.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, good. All right. Thank you so much. And, yes, run to your signing.

[Jeff Hiller]

Okay. Thank you, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay. Jeff had to go. He's in the middle of a book tour. So I'm just going to give my other honorable mention moments, you guys, because I couldn't. I couldn't narrow it down to 10, which is, of course, Jessica Simpson revealing that she was a size 4 at that barbecue concerts, where everyone called her fat on magazines for, well, forever. Okay, that's a moment. Listen to the Jessica Simpson episode if you want to hear that story. But that is a huge one. I'm also going to give honorable mention to all three Judds, women who out Wynonna's paternity in different ways between their three memoirs. And the final moment I wanted to talk about is that Kathleen Hannah writes one half of her love story with Adam Horovitz, the Beastie Boy, when he left his marriage to be with her, and they are still together. And Ione sky writes the other half of the exact same story of being in that marriage and when Adam chose to leave to go be with Kathleen, because they did overlap. And both stories are written so beautifully, so tenderly. And it is one of my favorite things in history that two sides of this one love story both exist in celebrity memoirs. And you can hear that in the Kathleen Hannah episode and the Ione sky episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. Can't wait to read your comments on Patreon, and we will see you soon for another episode. A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks, but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm, where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code Trash. That's right, Trash. T R A S H. Two audiobooks for the price of one at Libro fm. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.