← Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Charlie Sheen's Memoir The Book of Sheen (with Chris DeRosa and Jo Feldman)
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Only Murders in the Building, the Official Podcast. Join me, Michael Ciro Creighton as we go behind the scenes with some of the amazing actors, writers and crew from season five. The audience should never stop suspecting anything. How can you not be funny crawling around on a coffin? Yeah, that's true. Catch Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast now streaming wherever you get your podcasts and watch Only Murders in the Building streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply. This podcast is supported by FX's English teacher. Last year's critically acclaimed series returns to follow Evan, Gwen and Markie as they vie for their students divided attention. See why Cosmopolitan called its premiere season a master class of comedy while Glamour raved it's the year's funniest and most heartwarming new comedy series. FX's English Teacher returned September 25th on FX. All episodes streaming on Hulu.
- [01:01]
B
Hi, it's me, your host, Chelsea. I am actually away from the podcast for about eight weeks as I am on set right now directing my first feature film, which I also wrote. If you want to know more about the film and you're into stuff like that, we made a tier on Patreon where I'm going to send out updates just for people who want to follow along. Also on Patreon and Apple subscriptions, it's is where you will continue to get your bonus episodes from me every month. We have recorded a bunch so fear not, we have Denise Richards heart, the band, so much stuff coming your way. And in the meantime on the regular feed we have an absolutely stacked set of episodes. Our producer Christina Lopez has truly gone above and beyond. We have books, articles, Wild Rides with some very special guest hosts who you will already know from listening to this podcast. I think the best part about a book club is that you get to hear from a ton of different, different voices as you form your own opinion. So I am excited to open up the book club hosting and bring in some new voices and please, please, please let us know what you think in the comments. And now please enjoy.
- [02:16]
A
Welcome to Glamorous Trash, a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host Chris DeRosa sitting in for Chelsea Devontez. I'm a television producer, co host of the podcast Fixing Famous People. And sometimes I'm in stuff too. You also may know me as the monster memoir correspondent for episodes covering the memoirs of Kris Jenner, Kathie Lee Gifford, Lynne Spears and Drew Hammer. I've also covered Hilaria Baldwin's memoir and am most known on glamorous trash for helping Chelsea create a fake religion called Kris Jenner Christianity. Today we will be book clubbing the Book of Sheen by Charlie Sheen, published September 9, 2025. Now, you may know Charlie Sheen from the Oscar winning film Platoon, Ferris Bueller's Day off, or Wall street, where he acted alongside his father, Martin Sheen. But if you're a millennial like me, you probably know him from Two and a Half Men, Scary Movie 3, and being married to Denise Richards. This book has a ton of cookie crossovers, what should be an illegal amount of Dringos and a dizzying lack of emotional reflection. I would love to say that Charlie is a secret Kris Jenner Christian, but there's sadly zero talk of Kris Jenner God in this book and I'm upset about it. Before we dive in, please note that we will be discussing many instances of extreme substance use and some talk of domestic violence. So always take care when listening. Now let's dive in. What do you want people to take away from it? I would like to, you know, be respected or appreciated as a writer. As an author, I think that'd be really cool. This story should have ended a hundred times 20 years ago. And it didn't. And it didn't. So whatever happens next might be just, you know, or some of the real gold has been hidden, you know. My guest today is Joe Feldman. She's not only one of Chelsea's besties, but an LA based writer, teacher and performer. Her recent work can be seen on the Goldbergs, Party down and the forthcoming season of Shrinking on Apple. Maybe you've heard of it. You heard her on the Carney Wilson episode, the Gilmore Girl, Kelly Bishop episode, and she also was our guest for Scandival when all of that went down. You'll hear her next week recapping the memoir of Girls Next Door star Kendra Wilkinson. Joe, welcome back to the podcast. That's definitely mine and not Chelsea's.
- [04:43]
C
Thank you, Chris. It's so good to see my bestie, Christa. Rosa.
- [04:50]
A
What did you think of this book? Like, I mean, we'll obviously be talking also about the Netflix documentary that also came out in conjunction with this book, which I feel like is such a thing now. But what did you think of the book? Overall thoughts? What's up?
- [05:02]
C
Okay, my overall thoughts were like, there's more to Charlie Sheen than I thought. Sure, I'm going to give him that. I had the takeaway that I have about a lot of straight white men, which Is like, what we don't want them to do, which is he's talking too much. This book is so long. I felt like I was reading a Sally Rooney novel. Except, like, sad, er and devoid of.
- [05:26]
A
Like, introspection or emotion. Can we talk about that?
- [05:30]
C
An ounce of it. Not an ounce of, like, self reflection. Wow. Yes. Yes.
- [05:35]
A
There's a part of me that's going to defend, like, this book doesn't need to be like, him doing an apology tour to everyone in his life.
- [05:41]
C
Okay.
- [05:41]
A
But then I'm like, has he done an apology tour to everyone in his life?
- [05:45]
C
He will tell the most heinous anecdotes and then be like, hope that person ended up okay anyhow.
- [05:50]
A
Yeah. Like, it's like. But often doesn't even say that. Like, often was just like, this is what happened. Like, like, I will be getting my Britney Spears dancing knives out for whenever he rolls on Heidi Fleiss. Be ready. But, like, I think my biggest thing, and we'll get into it, is that if you think he's going to be like, and then I forgot about my children and I don't know where they were because I was high and I was like, on a bender for seven days. Like, that's never coming in this book. Not once. No.
- [06:17]
C
He had. He has a full ass child that we do not hear about until she gives birth.
- [06:24]
A
Like, yeah. Yes. I was saying. And I feel like what I was kind of getting was he half wanted to write this, like, for us, like, for me and you to be like, we're gonna do this on a podcast. And, like, that's what memoirs are. And, like, we're gonna review it and, like, he wrote it for us.
- [06:42]
C
Yeah.
- [06:42]
A
Like, the girls and the gays for half of it. But then there is, like, a part of it that is geared towards, like, the straight white man that went to his, like, winning Charlie Sheen on stage tour. Yes. And I. I almost likened a little bit of it to, like, do you remember? I hope they serve beer in hell.
- [07:01]
C
Oh, yeah. What was that guy's name?
- [07:03]
A
Tucker Max.
- [07:03]
C
Tucker Max. Yes. Yes.
- [07:05]
A
Where it was like, him being like, I was, like, doing drugs all the time. And like, here's the story. And then I had explosive diarrhea all over a hotel lobby. Aren't I so crazy? Like, there's a part. It's not that it's that bad, but there's like, the people that read those books can also read this book and be like, fuck, Like, Charlie Sheen is like one fudgeing killer dude, you know? And not to agree with Charlie right out the gate. But he says, like, every time I made a really big fuck up, I was rewarded with a movie role or a TV role that, like, paid me.
- [07:36]
C
Millions of dollars to just zoom out and just alone. For the idea that he's owned property in Malibu since before it was expensive.
- [07:44]
A
Yeah, sure, sure.
- [07:46]
C
Everything about him has just somehow failed upwards.
- [07:49]
A
Like, appreciated in every way. Like, whenever it should be. Like, I'm hitting my rock bottom and. And then I got a movie for $6 million.
- [07:56]
C
You know what? It honestly made me feel like I need to change my perspective on life, because my inner monologue is like, you're never gonna get it. Like, even when I get in line at Costco for gas, I'm like, doesn't matter what line you pick, Joe. It will be the slowest line. That's what happens to you with lines. Yeah, but Charlie Sheen would be like, I'll go in the longest line because every single car will remember they have gas, and then suddenly I'll get all the gas I need, and then someone's gonna have sex with me in line for the gas.
- [08:23]
A
Yeah. And then someone will give me a blowjob while they bring me to this VIP celebrity area, which we will talk about, like, the VIP of it all. But, like, this VIP celebrity area of the gas station where I'll get, like, a blowjob and, like, they'll pump my gas for me and I'm not in New Jersey.
- [08:38]
C
And you know what they're going to tell me? I'm going to now be the spokesman of gas. Yeah.
- [08:44]
A
Yes. And, like, yes, we're joking. But that's basically what happens to him every time he, like, needs to go to rehab.
- [08:50]
C
It truly is, like, almost Trumpian.
- [08:52]
A
I am going to make an assertion, like, later that, like, the winning of it all is, like, Trump right now.
- [08:59]
C
Yes, it is.
- [09:00]
A
Like, like, that was that, like, crawled so Trump could walk to then now run.
- [09:04]
C
Oh, my God, Chris. The Charlie Sheen to Trump pipeline.
- [09:08]
A
No, like, it's a thing. Because when I was watching the documentary and he was doing his, like, tour, where he went up there and was just talking and being like, winning. I'm winning. Like, winning. He literally even sounded like people making fun of Trump. It's very terrifying.
- [09:20]
C
Fast forward to next year when Charlie Sheen wins an Academy Award for playing Trump.
- [09:23]
A
No, truly, Truly. Okay, so let's start with the book.
- [09:28]
C
Okay.
- [09:29]
A
The book starts with him being born. The first thing he does is complain about his middle name. So if anyone that listens to my podcast will Immediately laugh, because we always. The first thing we do out of the gate is play the middle name game where we guess the celebrity that we're fixing's middle name. And I knew that his name was Carlos Irwin Estevez. And he's like, Erwin. And he's really upset about it.
- [09:50]
C
It's really pissed.
- [09:52]
A
He basically talks about how his dad, Martin Sheen, being an actor and that he is, like, in theater and he really wants to be an actor, and his mother is basically, like. Puts her entire life on hold to, like, raise the kids and, like, support his father being an actor.
- [10:09]
C
Yeah. That was sort of like a tragic moment to me. The only other time he talked about his mom doing art was when she did portraits of all of her children for Martin for his birthday. But I was, like, so curious about his mom and how, like, the parents sort of disappear later in the book. And I am so curious about it because it seems to me the most compelling part of the whole book is the unit of the six of them.
- [10:31]
A
Yes.
- [10:32]
C
Like, the idea of this, like, Swiss Family Robinson, of this, like, family going all around the world together to shoot Martin Sheen's movies, while he also, like, sort of falls apart. As someone who knew very little about Charlie Sheen going into this, I was sort of surprised to know that they had such a close relationship.
- [10:51]
A
And, like, many people don't even know that Martin Sheen is his father.
- [10:54]
C
That's crazy.
- [10:54]
A
Like, a lot of people that I was talking to being like, I'm reading the book. I'm reading the book and, like, Martin Sheen's doing it. They're like, martin Sheen is his father. And I'm like, yeah.
- [11:01]
C
Yes. And it's a stage name that Charlie Sheen took. And then now Charlie Sheen has a child named Bob Sheen.
- [11:08]
A
I know. Not Bob. Why did they name him not Robert? Bob?
- [11:12]
C
Yeah, Bob Sheen. Hey, Bob Sheen. Like the. To be a third generation stage name.
- [11:18]
A
No, no. Like, truly. And like, knowing that that's going to be your name. Like, not only did my father already name me Bob, but I'm not even. Estevez isn't even a part of this situation.
- [11:27]
C
Yeah, it's so interesting. No, but yeah, I did love, like, the unit of the six of them. I was like, this is a family who. It's so interesting to me and also, like, kind of terrifying, the idea that, like, such a tight, close family unit could, like, fray in all of these ways.
- [11:44]
A
In all of the ways. Speaking of the stage name, Martin Sheen's actual name is Ramon Gerard Antonio Estevez. But when Martin's father goes to see him in a play or some play that he does.
- [11:58]
C
Yeah.
- [11:59]
A
And he sees that he's changed his name to Martin Sheen and is, like, kind of, like, sloughed off his, you know, heritage and made this, like, very white presenting name.
- [12:12]
C
Yeah.
- [12:12]
A
And the grandfather walks out of the theater, and, like, I don't think they ever really repair their relationship.
- [12:16]
C
That was very sad.
- [12:18]
A
Yeah. It's very generational, because a lot of the things that we see Martin deal with when he's coming up and acting are the exact same things that Charlie deals with. And Martin is warning him every step of the way, and he kind of doesn't ever listen to him. And when he does, he regrets it a lot. It's very interesting to see, like, the cycles repeating, and, like, the cycle starts with Martin's father disapproving of his actions as an actor.
- [12:45]
C
Right. Yeah. Even the way Emilio and Ramon and Rene disappear, I'm sort of curious where they are through the rest of this memoir.
- [12:53]
A
And Ramon's in the documentary, and, like, Emilio doesn't wanna be in the documentary. His dad does not wanna be in the documentary. And it's like. And he's like, I wish they would be. And they're like, I'm not that. Like, what am I gonna say?
- [13:02]
C
Gotta give it up for Jon Cryer. Just sitting down. You've gotta imagine he just, like, was like, oh, this is gonna feel good.
- [13:09]
A
He's like, I've been wanting to talk about this for, like, 20 years.
- [13:14]
B
Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back.
- [13:22]
C
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- [13:45]
B
Rest up with Agz. Learn more@drinkagz.com it's back to school season.
- [13:52]
A
And Clorox is donating 2 million disinfecting wipes to classrooms across America.
- [13:57]
C
Because back to school means things can.
- [13:58]
A
Get a little bit messy.
- [14:00]
C
Just ask kindergarten teacher Ms. Gibson. Give me just one Clorox wipe, and I'm ready for glitter glue, exploded lunchbox, yogurt, peanut butter, handprints, runny noses, picking noses, rubbing noses, touching noses. Thank you, Edward. Ooh. Nap mats and lockers and tissue boxes.
- [14:14]
A
Clorox disinfecting wipes. Teacher's number one wipe.
- [14:17]
C
Clean. Feels good. Based on unit sales data.
- [14:22]
B
Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation.
- [14:28]
C
I felt, I felt like some sort of cathartic release watching Jon Cryer just like, have permission to publicly talk shit about Charlie Sheen.
- [14:35]
A
Yeah. When he's like. And we all thought he would die every day, like, it was like he was just. Did not hold back at all. He was like, did not sugarcoat one thing. He was like, when we were in Two and a Half Men, I was scared every day that tomorrow would be the day that we go to his trailer and he's in there dead. Like. Like, it was just straight up.
- [14:48]
C
It was amazing.
- [14:49]
A
Yeah. So back to the book. When he's little and he's on all these locations and all these sets with his dad and they're basically like you said, like Swiss Family Robinson. They move the whole family to wherever mart movie roles are bringing him. And he said that when he was a kid, he would wake up every morning and say, what day is it? Where are we and when are we going home? And if that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the way that this kid was raised, I don't know what will.
- [15:15]
C
Yeah, that's pretty much it. That is very confusing for a child to not have a routine, to not have like a feeling of home. And maybe they thought the kids would feel at home if they were always together, but it is like, that is dysregulating to always be in a different place and to not have like a school, any sort of structure. I got two kids, they need the structure. They need to count on that they're seeing these buddies every day. They gotta count on that they're seeing these teachers every day. I mean, but also, it was a different time. But yeah, also there was a part of me that was like, wow, this is so cool that this family got to just like do this. And he got to like have a year of his life in the Philippines. How cool is that?
- [15:56]
A
Yeah, I mean, it is cool. But then it's like when you're like 5 year old is like, when are we going home? Like, what is that? Like, doesn't know what day it is and is like, where are we? Like, just truly growing up confused about what's going on. And then like, your dad is going to like play make believe all day and that's how you make money. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's. It's very confusing. And then is he getting schooling yet? Like, do they? I remember like at one point there, he just says, like, I did do like tutoring on set. But it wasn't great. And I was like, oh, like, yeah.
- [16:24]
C
It doesn't sound like it. Even though I do think he makes a word salad out of everything. He is a very creative speaker and writer.
- [16:35]
A
He also, in the early parts of it, I feel like we are. We're more with him. And then once we get into the substance use heavy situations is when it turns into, like, fantasy. And again, probably because he doesn't remember, like he's telling us what he experienced, but is that what the reality was or what? And so I feel in the beginning we get. It's very more focused. But then I'm gonna skip a bunch of his substance use stories here because after a while they lose impact in the book.
- [17:04]
C
I think that's why the Netflix documentary was also helpful. Like it was sort of a companion piece. Because when we get to the substance use, that's sort of when we do need other narrators to tell the stories. Because Charlie's not a reliable narrator for those.
- [17:18]
A
No, there's a lot of things that come up in that documentary that, like, he never addresses in the book at all.
- [17:23]
C
Oh, he barely. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yes.
- [17:25]
A
Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. Anyway, they eventually land in Malibu because they were living around the corner from where the Manson murders happened and had to flee out of fear, which is terrifying to think about.
- [17:36]
C
So relatable.
- [17:37]
A
Yeah, so relatable. And then so they land in Malibu when it's like not Malibu of today, right? Like, it's not this like, star studded place. It's just like a place far away from la, but that they can live affordably.
- [17:49]
C
It's hard to imagine that Malibu was ever an affordable place to live.
- [17:53]
A
Yeah, sure, sure. And he remarks, like, Emilio reminded him, don't you remember that in one of our houses, we all slept in one bedroom in sleeping bags for a whole year. And Charlie's like, no, I don't remember that at all. Which is very, you know, I feel like very connected to Chelsea where Chelsea was like, she's told the story before on the podcast when Gasser was like, like, you lived in a trailer? And she's like, no, I didn't. And he's like, we just went to this trailer that you lived in when you were 15 alone and took a picture of you in front of it. Like, you lived in this trailer. And she's like, oh, yeah.
- [18:25]
C
And that's on Childhood trauma.
- [18:27]
A
Yeah, yeah. And so it's like very much of. In line with glamorous trash of like, remember this when we all were sleeping in one bedroom on the floor in sleeping bags for an entire year. And he's like, not one bit do I remember that.
- [18:37]
C
He must have been also really little. And it probably. I mean, I feel like if I did that to my kids, did that to my kids, if that was our situation, I think they would either complain about it every day or it just probably just becomes, like, normal life. Like, that's where your bed is, and.
- [18:52]
A
You just don't even know any better. And again, when does he have the stability to know that this is odd?
- [18:57]
C
Right?
- [18:57]
A
He's like, we're living in these random other places while my dad's an actor. And, like, what's an actor?
- [19:01]
C
Right, right.
- [19:02]
A
So he eventually gets a Super 8 camera, and the documentary is full of their Super 8 film of them doing all of these. Like, before social media, they were just, like, filming these little short films of them, like, fighting or someone gets murdered or, like, everything. And have we not all done this? And he does all these little films and they're. And that's what he starts getting into acting and, like, what filmmaking is. And he's, like, trying to model after his father. And, like, they. You know, a lot of the things they did were, like, emulating the movies that Martin was filming at the time. And it's funny because, like, I have also done this where the other day my boyfriend found, like, my dad's handycam and, like, opened it up and played this tape that was in it. It's like a DV tape. Like, when you still have the cassettes.
- [19:46]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:47]
A
Before editing. You know what I mean? And I would. My friends and I did our version of the Real World when that was the biggest show on television.
- [19:55]
C
Oh, that was the best.
- [19:56]
A
And we would. And I would direct it, and I would, like, start the recording and stop the recording.
- [20:00]
C
Wait, Chris, this is how you became a producer for how, like, this is your true origin story? This is your villain origin story?
- [20:06]
A
This is my villain origin story of how I became a reality television producer.
- [20:10]
C
How did it make you feel when your Danimals yogurt was taken?
- [20:14]
A
Yeah, no, like. But truly. And we had, like, a confessional that was, like, under the stairs of my basement. But we truly were like, this is the story of seven strangers. Next person picked to live in a house, next person. Like, we did all of that. So he makes all these movies with his brothers, and it seemingly is, like, very fun for them. He starts going to school. Thank God he, like, has some stability. And he tries out for the baseball team. He says baseball is his first drug, and he loves baseball. And he, like. It's what he, like, puts all of his time into, and he wants to be really good at it. And later he'll, you know, obviously he's in major league and he has a baseball movie, so it makes sense. But that's something that he does, and he's, like, putting his energy into. That's not acting that he is really rewarded for. The other thing he says is that he has a bad stutter. This is where we started to get into these stories where he's using all this, like, flowery language, and I'm like, can you please give me 1 or 17 million breaks where you don't, like, just please stop.
- [21:07]
C
Just say what it literally is.
- [21:09]
A
Just say what it is. I don't need, like, the. I don't need, like, this analogy of everything that you've ever done. He starts to have a really bad stutter in school, and he walks through this one moment of, like, him trying to give an answer, and it can't come out of his mouth. And he's just stuttering, and everyone laughs at him and makes fun of him, and he's, like, destroyed by it.
- [21:26]
C
It's really interesting that someone with such a traumatic story like that became a performer.
- [21:32]
A
Yes.
- [21:33]
C
And I say that as someone who has been a performer and has had anxious times in my life where I'm like, the idea of being perceived seems horrible. And it's so interesting that he pushed through it.
- [21:46]
A
And later he will attribute, like, some of his early drinking to, like, if I was drinking, I took the edge off, like, my stutter wouldn't come through. And so he kind of attributes that his beginning of, like, at least alcohol use on. I need to be a little, like, a little loose. So I'm not so anxious to, like, be stuttering whenever I'm giving a line.
- [22:06]
C
Sure.
- [22:06]
A
And so that's, like, a very slippery slope for him, obviously. So then one of my favorite stories in the book is that Martin Sheen is doing a movie with OJ Simpson and Sophia Loren. And Charlie is on the set, and he's with them, and he's, like, talking with them. And Sophia Loren, so famous, and O.J. simpson is there, and he's at the time, like, the. You know, the biggest celebrity in the whole world. And he's like a little kid, and he plays this ping pong game with OJ Simpson in front of, like, all these crew members and all these people working on the movie, and they're, like, playing ping pong Together. And he says that OJ Simpson is so competitive, and at one point, like, in ping pong, you have to always have the paddle in one hand. Like, you can't switch hands with the paddle. That's, like, not allowed. And at one point, O.J. simpson is, like, so upset that Charlie is beating him or at least, like, holding his own, that he starts switching hands and, like, using his other hand, which is not allowed. And Charlie's like, I saw that he did it, but no one else did. But I clocked him, and I saw that he was, like, cheating to try to beat a child at ping pong.
- [23:11]
C
So fucked up. I had this. I have this underlined because I couldn't believe it. Also, it does need to be said that Charlie repeatedly spells dude, D, O, O, D, and he spells fucking, F, U, K, K, E, N. I do need that.
- [23:25]
A
Oh, God.
- [23:25]
C
On the record, he said about O.J. his winning shot was a missile that ricocheted off a wardrobe cart 20ft behind me. Please understand that I'm still describing his ping pong skills when I say his right hand was fucking lethal.
- [23:38]
A
Yeah, that was a slam about a goddamn murderer. Yeah.
- [23:42]
C
Yeah. He really was around a lot of unseemly characters in this youth, but I.
- [23:47]
A
Feel like he's, like, giving us a wink and a nod of, like, isn't he such a piece of shit?
- [23:50]
C
Yeah, totally.
- [23:52]
A
During this movie that Martin is doing, they get invited to Sophia Loren's house, and they do a screening of Dog Day Afternoon with Al Pacino, who used to be an Usher with Martin Sheen. It's funny, he doesn't really say this that much, but, like, he gives kind of a speech at one point in the book where he says, like, you never know who's gonna see you and who's gonna notice you. That was something I really took away from the book where he's like, even if you just get in there and do something, it, like, starts. You know, Al Pacino started as an usher in a movie theater and then became one of the biggest stars that we'll ever have, period.
- [24:30]
C
It also follows the Martin Sheen advice, which is like, just be a nice, good person and good things will happen to you. Which was the lesson he tries to impart onto Charlie throughout all of Charlie's life. When Charlie, like, tries to break out of the contract to be in Karate Kid, and Martin's like, no, no, no. Like, you, it must honor your contracts. And Charlie's like, this fucking guy?
- [24:52]
A
Yeah. And so he's transported by this performance of Al Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon. And he's like, this is what acting is. Like, I must do this. And he attributes this to, like, I will take up my father's sword and, like, become an actor as well, because this is art. And, like, I'll never be able to get over this experience of watching this movie. Yes, basically. And after that, they then go to the Philippines so that Martin can film Apocalypse now, which is, I mean, still to this day, one of the biggest movies of all time. Right?
- [25:21]
C
Yeah. I also did not know about what happened to Martin Sheen during the shooting of this movie.
- [25:27]
A
Me either. And it was very crazy to read all of the things that happened. But before we get there, Dringo, our first Dringo of many, many, many, Marlon Brando is there. And they spend a lot of time with Marlon Brando. At one point, they have this big spaghetti dinner and they invite Marlon Brando over to have dinner with them. So it's the whole Sheen family in Marlo Brando. And as they're talking, as Charlie's mom puts the bowl of spaghetti down on the table for everyone to serve themselves from, Marlon Brando takes his fork, grabs the entire bowl with his fork, scoots it over towards him, and then just starts eating directly out of the spaghetti bowl. And they're all shocked that he's doing this, but it's Marlon Brando, so no one kind of knows how to tell him, don't do this. And they all just, like, let him eat the spaghetti himself.
- [26:20]
C
In the docu series. I wanted Ramon, I wanted Renee, I wanted Emilio. I wanted everyone that was at that table to talk about what they saw. What a power move.
- [26:30]
A
And that's. And yes, guys, that's not even, like, the craziest part of what happens on the set of Apocalypse now by a mile. No.
- [26:38]
B
Okay, we're going to take a quick break right now and we'll be right back.
- [26:46]
A
This episode is brought to you by FXX and Hulu. An all new season of Futurama is back, blending heartfelt moments with razor sharp humor while accidentally saving the day. The Planet Express crew is back, defying gravity and common sense. From the creator of The Simpsons comes 10 new episodes where the romance is hotter, the threats are bigger, and the action hits harder. Don't miss the all new season of Futurama. Watch it Mondays on FXX or streaming on Hulu.
- [27:14]
C
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- [27:21]
A
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- [27:24]
C
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- [27:45]
B
Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation.
- [27:49]
A
On his dad's 36th birthday. All of them come to the set and Charlie's like, there and they're like, gonna sing his dad Happy birthday with like all of the crew. And they have a cake and they have candles and they're gonna walk up and be like, okay, time to sing Happy birthday. But when they get there, Martin's nowhere to be found. And he hears rumors that he's walking down the street butt naked. Like, while they're filming the movie.
- [28:14]
C
Yeah. He's had some sort of break.
- [28:16]
A
Yeah. From reality. His mind. I don't know. And they do in the documentary talk about how he, as in Martin, was doing a lot of drugs as well. Like, there was a lot of substance use going on on the set and he was not in his really right mind. But, like, I mean, I hear walking naked down the street, I'm thinking about. I mean, recently Lil Nas X was like, incarcerated for doing this. Like, this is like not the first time this. You know what I mean? When we hear, like, Amanda Bynes was walking down the street and had to get picked up by the police, you're.
- [28:43]
C
Like, that's a person who desperately needs help. Support.
- [28:46]
A
Yeah, Desperately needs help.
- [28:48]
C
But he kept working.
- [28:49]
A
Yeah. So they eventually find Martin and they bring him back and then they like sing Happy Birthday to him. Charlie's like, it was really scary and weird and everyone's like kind of like playing like, oh, everything's fine. Everyone's just kind of like placating. And again, this will happen to Charlie. His entire career is like, he's using substances, doing God knows what, not showing up on time, being absent. And everyone just has to put on a smiley face and pretend that everything's fine and do this charade of him being mentally okay so that his kids can sing him Happy birthday.
- [29:20]
C
Yeah. There is this thing that's like, we are a family. We do everything together. And Charlie says they're always doing, even now, birthdays. You show up in the this family, like, you go to everything, you attend everything that's family, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it sounds like they maybe aren't talking about things that are happening. Like to them, being family means being physically present, but maybe not being, like, emotionally present or, like, maybe Mom's got a lot of kids, but maybe she's got to sit those kids down and be like, something scary is happening with your dad. Your dad is sick. Like, it just seems like, who knows what was explained to them when they're.
- [29:57]
A
Like, exposed to, like, that's really scary to be like, we don't know where your dad is. And then to. For him to come in and God only knows what he looked like whenever he came in to, like. And then you're like, oh, this thing that he's doing is, like, ruining him.
- [30:07]
C
Yes.
- [30:08]
A
And then, like, to know that he's like, and I'm gonna do the same thing.
- [30:12]
C
Sign me up.
- [30:13]
A
And basically makes the same movie, like, later in his life. So Apocalypse now ends, and they go back to California, and Charlie's growing up. I think he's 16 at this time. And, you know, he has his friends, and he's trying to make it in school. And him and his friend, they go to Vegas with Martin. For some reason, Martin's doing an appearance. I don't even think he even explains it. And Charlie and his friend take Martin Sheen's credit card, and they find a sex worker named Candy Ann. And they pay her with the credit card, which probably was on one of those, like, you know, when you had to do, like, the transfer of the credit card on that, like, sliding machine thing.
- [30:55]
C
Yes. There was no square tap. There was, like, the paper receipt.
- [30:59]
A
No, no.
- [30:59]
C
I know. I grew up with my parents working in our fair. So we used that machine, like, probably that.
- [31:05]
A
And Candy Ann takes both of Charlie and his friend's virginity. And they explain, like, we want to lose our virginity, and he's in the 10th grade, so he could possibly be 16, but could also not be 16. And the age of consent in Nevada at the time is 16. But there's also a lot of complicated dynamics going on, and there's a humongous age gap we're to assume. And also, we don't know what he has told her or if he said he's 18 or older than that. And we don't have her perspective. I desperately want Candy Ann's perspective, but it's very cloaked in mystery.
- [31:43]
C
Honestly, the grossest part to me was Charlie being like, I went first.
- [31:47]
A
It was terrible. They lose their virginity to Candy, and. And I have a fantasy of Candy Ann being, like, this, like, old school showgirl broad who, like, is smoking it. Like, I bet Candy Ann was, like, a Fucking like a legend.
- [32:03]
C
Yeah. Elaine stretch is sitting with her button.
- [32:06]
A
Down, smoking a cigarette and being like, I fucked Elvis. She's like, me and Marilyn Monroe did a three way with jfk. I wanted candy and to be like. And I'm sure she's no longer with. But like he even says in the documentary, he's like, candy Ann, if you're out there, like, you were great. I just want candy. Like, where's the Candy Ann story?
- [32:25]
C
She could still be with us, Chris.
- [32:26]
A
She could be with us. Candy Ann, if you're out there exposed.
- [32:29]
C
Like, you know when you're, when you're a teenager and you think everyone's old, but they're actually like 10 years older than you.
- [32:35]
A
She was, she was like 25. And he was like, this old bitch took my virginity. And meanwhile she's like, I'm 27. Like, you piece of shit. Candy Ann, if you are with us, please reveal yourself. Please reveal yourself to us. Because I just want to. I want to hear. That's a memoir I want to read.
- [32:50]
C
She also saw the name on the credit card. He was like, yeah, that's Martin Sheen. That's my dad. And she was like, I need an autograph.
- [32:57]
A
She's like, can I fuck your dad? Yeah. She was like, I want an autograph of Martin Sheen. And P. S While this is happening. Martin Sheen is in the next adjoining hotel room snoozing. Yeah. And so one thing that we don't get is like, we don't get the story of like his dad coming out of apocalypse now and like being a sane person again.
- [33:12]
C
Right. He sort of says, like, we healed our dad by going back for the rest of filming and hugging him. I also, I just want to touch really quickly on one thing that happened, which was like during the year, two year long shooting, their mom left them alone for like a month at a time with their uncle.
- [33:29]
A
And I'm not great.
- [33:30]
C
The idea if I asked my brother to watch my kids for a month, I would owe him my life.
- [33:37]
A
Like, yeah, like lay down your life on the line for so much labor.
- [33:40]
C
That's so hard.
- [33:42]
A
And I wonder what his mom, like, I would love her take of it because she's like, my husband's literally losing his mind on a movie set and I must save him. But then I also have 7 million kids that I also have to take care of.
- [33:53]
C
Like 7 million kids. I'm gonna have my brother in law take care of them.
- [33:56]
A
And is that like Uncle Mike?
- [33:58]
C
Uncle Mike. I kind of love uncle Mike's story too.
- [34:01]
A
That's what I'm saying. There's a lot of other people that I'm like, come forward with your version of this because.
- [34:05]
C
Come. Come forth, Uncle. In my mind, I love Uncle Mike. The idea of a. Of a childless brother who's like, yeah, I'll watch your four fucking kids. Who cares? I'm obsessed with them.
- [34:14]
A
But again, her being, like, showing up to his house and dropping them off on the front stoop and being like, I have to go to the Philippines. This isn't a question. Like, here are my kids. Bye. Yeah, that's, like, what I feel like is happening. So that Martin is, like, alive and still with us today. But one thing to note is, like, one of his very first sexual experiences is a transactional.
- [34:31]
C
Yeah.
- [34:32]
A
Experience with a sex worker.
- [34:33]
C
Yeah, it's. It really sets the tone, doesn't it?
- [34:36]
A
He has a great time doing it. He doesn't feel that it's bad, and he doesn't feel like. He's like, oh, look, like I said, this is what I want to happen. I will pay for this. And then you do it. And then we part our ways. Great.
- [34:47]
C
He does say, when Martin finds out, he gives him some speech about the differences between sex and love. And he's like, whatever.
- [34:54]
A
And he's like, yeah. He's like, in one ear and out the other. Like, didn't care. Yeah. And so then him and his friends start making fake IDs so they can go to these massage parlors in Santa Monica that he's, like, heard so much about and, like, get massages, which then actually are really, like, places to have sex with sex workers.
- [35:13]
C
How do the parents not realize where their money is being spent? It's like those paper receipts did nothing.
- [35:20]
A
Nothing at all. So Charlie and his friend have to start making up lies about where they're going and why they need money. So they say, oh, I'm going to dinner in a movie with my friend. And So I need $50 here. We're going shopping. I need $50 there. We're going to the mall. I need $50 there. And me mother, like, going to this massage parlor to have sex with sex workers. And he's like, we had to keep making up different lies of, like, how we were going to get our. Because he's, like, taking money from his parents to then pay a sex worker to have sex with him.
- [35:49]
C
This is, like, example number 5,000 of why I'm scared to have kids in Los Angeles.
- [35:53]
A
Yeah, you. You should move. Honestly. No, I know I need to, but honestly, where. Where Is this not, like, where to wear? Like, it's. You might as well just stay where you are.
- [36:04]
C
I know. You know it's true.
- [36:05]
A
So Charlie's, like, getting into the. At the end of high school, and he has terrible grades, obviously, because he's only caring about going to the massage parlor. He doesn't care about school. His grades are so bad that he gets kicked off the baseball team, and he ends up not graduating because his grades are so terrible.
- [36:21]
C
I was impressed that they didn't care that he was Martin Sheen's kid at school and that he still got in trouble, because I feel like nowadays you wouldn't.
- [36:31]
A
They push him through.
- [36:31]
C
Yeah. You wouldn't kick him off the team, and you would definitely let him graduate.
- [36:35]
A
Yeah. He starts going off for auditions, and his first audition that he does is for a movie called Grizzly 2. And he books the role.
- [36:45]
C
It just is easy for him in so many ways.
- [36:48]
A
It's easy for him in so many ways. Mainly because he looks exactly like his father, who is in, at the time, one of the biggest movies of all time.
- [36:56]
C
Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't hurt at all. We also. I feel like we failed to say that his best friends growing up was Chris Pat, Sean Penn's little brother.
- [37:06]
A
Chris Penn, Sean Penn's little brother, and Rob Lowe. Like, he's friends with Rob Lowe, and.
- [37:10]
C
He'S in, like, the other Low. He likes Chad Lowe better than Rob Low. He says something about Rob Low at some point.
- [37:17]
A
Well, whenever he gets intervened on, he's like, Rob Lowe was their loser.
- [37:20]
C
Like, Rob Low being the loser. Wants me to get sober. Chad Love for life.
- [37:25]
A
Yeah. But he books this role, and then, like, he. Like, high school is behind him, and he starts acting. And so he books this role for Grizzly 2, and it's him, George Clooney, and Laura Dern that are the three main characters of this, like, movie.
- [37:43]
C
That's a fun picture. In the book. In the little picture Carousel.
- [37:47]
A
In the book. Yeah. And, like, George Clooney, who will, like, go on to become one of the biggest actors that we've ever had and be, like, beloved and be Laura Dern. And Laura Dern, like, coming in and being, like, incredible being in Jurassic park, you know what I mean? Like, being a huge actor also kind.
- [38:02]
C
Of a. I guess I don't. I feel like I can. I'll say Nepo, baby, in that her father is Bruce Dern, I don't think, but, like, she is. God. She is.
- [38:12]
A
And he says her dad was an actor, and so they bonded over that. And also he said her performance was great. I learned so many things about acting from Laura Dern because she was so good. I believe it in this like shitty movie where a grizzly bear chases them and kills them. That's what the movie is, is that they get eaten, but they all three, one at a time, get eaten by a bear. And George Clooney's aunt is also an actor. And so it's like three Nepos. It's like two and a half Nepos. You know what I mean? They're like, they're like all little Nepos, which like at the. It, it kind of makes sense because you're in the proximity already of it. Like you're getting your foot in the door. You have contacts. Whereas, like someone that like is flying from like the east coast and like trying to bang down doors, like they're not.
- [38:52]
C
I mean, even like Charlie getting an agent as an 18 year old was like through his mom having a friend. Like they're.
- [38:59]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like his dad being like, can you represent my son? Random person. And they're like, okay, yeah. So he books Grizzly 2 and they're going to start shooting it. And he also gets a role in Red Dawn. And he does that because again, he auditions for the guy who wrote Apocalypse Now. I wonder how he got that audition. It's just so easy for these people. And so he starts hanging out with Rob Lowe and all these stars of the eight. Like kind of. The Brat Pack. Yeah, the Brat Pack, you know, people. And so he starts hanging out with Rob Lowe and like, you know, all the people that were insane almost Fire and the Breakfast Club and all these people. And he's like the non famous one of them.
- [39:34]
C
Yeah, he's feeling so sorry for himself next to Demi Moore at a nightclub.
- [39:38]
A
No, he's like so sad and he's like, with like Jennifer Grey and he's like so sad of all that, you know. And he said his friend Chris gets famous from Footloose and he's like so jealous. Like, so jealous that Chris is like famous and he's not. He just wants to be so bad. So he books this role on Red Dawn. So he has like two movies coming up. He then gets the role of the Karate Kid, but he has a conflict because they're shooting Grizzly 2 at the same time that they would want to shoot Karate Kid. And he's like, I'm going to ditch Grizzly 2 because like that movie, it's stupid. And the Karate Kid's gonna be Like a hit. I need to like ditch this so I can go be in the star making role of the Karate Kid. And his father says, don't do this. Your reputation is everything. The minute that they know that you're flaky and that you'll ditch them for something, you won't get any roles. He's like, I got to where I am because I was like, loyal and I did what I did my job and I showed up and I wasn't like a piece of shit and I wasn't flaky. He's like, you cannot do the Karate Kid and you must do Grizzly two. And he's like, okay, I'm going to listen to you. He ends up doing Grizzly 2. And then the Karate Kid is a huge success, obviously, and Ralph Macchio becomes very famous. But then Charlie like present day looks back and is like, well, it didn't really work out for him though. And I'm.
- [40:51]
C
I would say Charlie's fame eclipsed Ralph Macchio's fame. I will also say that where Martin Sheen was wrong was specifically with his own child, which was that you do actually get rewarded for bad behavior constantly. If you're truly cheating.
- [41:04]
A
Yeah. We will find out as we keep going that in every single way his father is wrong. Back to the book. So he shoots Grizzly 2. He has a great time, whatever. He does it. And he's making like $2,000 a week on Grizzly 2. Like it's a small movie. It's not a big deal. You know, it's not. It's the minor leagues baseball reference. Lol.
- [41:23]
C
Very cool.
- [41:26]
A
And so as they're about to start shooting Red dawn, he gets an offer for a larger role in Red dawn. But he has to sign a three picture deal with mgm, which like, lol. They still were doing this at this time where you're like signing a three picture deal.
- [41:40]
C
I did the same thing. Those sounded so 50s to me.
- [41:43]
A
So basically it's like a three picture deal with MGM and he would get $100,000. You know, I love to get into the finances of all of this.
- [41:50]
C
Please.
- [41:51]
A
The contract negotiation, slash, finances is like my pornography. So I'm like. So everyone's like, no one fucking cares.
- [41:57]
C
You're doing like the calculator of what $100,000 is in 1982.
- [42:01]
A
Yeah, yeah. Like I'm like obsessed with all this, so no one will care. But I must lay this out in the episode just for myself.
- [42:06]
C
No, it seemed like a good deal to me.
- [42:09]
A
Yeah. So he gets gonna. He's gonna get paid $100,000 for Red Dawn. If he signs this, then in the second movie he will get paid $200,000 and then in the third movie he will get paid $300,000. And currently at the time, he's on Grizzly 2 and he's making $2,000 a week and would only really make $6,000 on the movie.
- [42:25]
C
I would say yes to the deal.
- [42:27]
A
Like in one heartbeat of a second, I would say. And he's like 18 years old, insane, and has never had like a real job.
- [42:35]
C
Being 18 and making $2,000 a week is already like a lot of money.
- [42:40]
A
Yes. And so to make $300,000 on your third and like to be guaranteed that you're gonna be in three movies when you're 18 and nobody.
- [42:48]
C
Yes.
- [42:49]
A
Is like a huge thing.
- [42:50]
C
Yeah.
- [42:52]
A
And his dad, again, he goes to Martin and is like, I'm gonna sign this. And his dad says, do not sign this. He said, I didn't sign a seven picture deal with Francis Ford Coppola in Apocalypse now because I didn't wanna have to do a movie that I didn't like. I wanted to have like my autonomy to like pick the movie that I want. And like Francis Ford Coppola tortured me on the set and like, was terrible. And I almost didn't survive filming the movie. And so imagine having to do that seven times. Which is true. Fair. And so Charlie wants so badly to sign it and his father's like, you cannot sign this. And he ends up listening to his father and doesn't sign it. And I think he still to this day regrets not signing it.
- [43:30]
C
I think so too.
- [43:31]
A
It seems like he regrets it. And his agent is like. She like falls to her knees. Like, she's like, what? They don't talk for weeks and she's devastated cause she's like, I set this all up for you. And this was like how you're gonna start making money and like get in the business and really be like wheeling and dealing. And he says no. Which like, again, I would've signed it in a heartbeat.
- [43:49]
C
I would've signed it in a heartbeat. And then he said he sort of gets like blacklisted afterwards for a little bit. Or he like infers that he is.
- [43:56]
A
Well, he never works with MGM ever again.
- [43:59]
C
Crazy. He does still become insanely wealthy.
- [44:03]
A
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But at the time it's like, oh, you're this little 18 year old prick and you're gonna like say that you're too good to sign a three picture deal. With us. They're like furious with him. So he says he never work, he never does an MGM movie ever again.
- [44:16]
C
Damn.
- [44:16]
A
So as this is happening, his high school ex girlfriend and him are fooling around and she gets pregnant. He doesn't explicitly say this, but reading between the lines, he wants her to get an abortion and she says no. And she carries the baby to term. She has the baby. He is not at the birth, he says. But he says that they co parent the child and his parents help them financially to raise this child.
- [44:43]
C
It seemed like in the documentary too, they showed like her having birthday parties at the Sheen grandparents house. I just feel like those Sheens are just taking it all on. They're taking it in stride and he's never has to be responsible for his kids. And it drives me crazy.
- [45:00]
A
Well, it's kind of like the continuation of the father because again, when Martin was like losing his mind on Apocalypse.
- [45:05]
C
Now, the mom's like, I got it.
- [45:07]
A
Throwing the kids to the uncle and being like, I gotta fly there.
- [45:09]
C
That's true. Yeah.
- [45:10]
A
And now it's like, okay, Martin's in a good place. Now it's time for us to do the same thing for Charlie. You know, it's very like cyclical again because he's now like in this place where like he's doing something happened to him where he needs help. And so they're all kind of like coming together to help him.
- [45:24]
C
Yeah, true.
- [45:25]
A
And again, he doesn't really have to live with the consequences of his actions because his parents are like, we'll just write blank checks to this girl that had your baby.
- [45:32]
C
And he literally doesn't have to do like, he's probably never been awake in the middle of the night to feed that child. Like he's.
- [45:38]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [45:39]
C
He doesn't parent.
- [45:40]
A
And one, as we know, that is strife that comes between him and Denise is feeding the child. Yeah, quickly, because I want to start moving on to like his other roles. But like his dad and him do this thing where like they play basketball against Michael Jordan for this like game show. And that's a thing that like he get kind of gets to be exposed to like a lot of other people outside of just his work. And like a lot of people that wouldn't have watched Grizzly 2 or Red dawn, learn who he is as Martin Sheen's son. And like, they're very funny. It's a lot of it is in the documentary they're like making fun of Michael Jordan and they're having fun and they actually like, do well and they actually beat Michael Jordan, who at the time is the greatest living athlete of all time.
- [46:18]
C
He was blindfolded.
- [46:20]
A
He was blindfolded. But again, like, he's like the goat of all goats, before we even said that. And they beat him in, like, a game of horse crazy. And it's like he gives the speech about exposure and how you never know who will see something you do even if it's not a huge success. Like, you still need to put yourself out there and just start doing stuff because, like, people will recognize you. And I find that such good advice.
- [46:40]
C
It is good advice.
- [46:42]
A
Not that anything else he's gonna say is good advice in this book, but, like, he really is like, just do stuff. Like, even if it's bad, do a movie or do this or write that thing, or, you know, get your stuff out there and just do it. And if it's terrible, who cares? You're at least creating something.
- [46:57]
C
It is interesting too. How many times he'll, like, talk about having a hair and makeup person on something, and then 20 years later he'll work with them again. And, like, it does sort of speak to, like, the community aspect of this business, which is also like, yeah, you don't ever be rude to crew. Crew is like, that's how you survive. Those are people you need to impress are the people that you work with every day.
- [47:19]
A
And, like, they're still in this business just like everyone else is. Like, you know what I mean? Like, if you treat that person badly, I mean, the number of times that I've been like, a low level producer and then a friend of mine being like, oh, I'm gonna hire this showrunner. How were they to you? And I've had to be like. And be like, what do you want to know? And it's like, yep.
- [47:37]
C
You always, always ask the assistant.
- [47:40]
A
You never. Yeah, you all, like, always ask an assistant. I've given some bad reviews before.
- [47:45]
C
For sure.
- [47:46]
A
We'll say, yeah. So Jennifer Grey, his friend, is like, I'm in this movie called Ferris Bueller's Day off, and there needs to be this guy that I fight with in, like, this scene. She's like, kind of like, puts him up to be this character that she's gonna have this very iconic scene in the movie with.
- [48:03]
C
Yeah.
- [48:04]
A
And John Hughes is like, okay, like, let's have him audition. And so he dresses up in Ramon's, like, punk rock, like, jacket. And he, like, puts, like, cigarette ash under his eyes to look like he's been, like, staying up all night. And he goes like, in character to this audition. And he sees John Hughes in the parking lot. And John Hughes looks at him and says, you look great, kids. See you in a week. And then keeps walking. Doesn't even. He's like, places to go and people to see and doesn't even need to audition. He just, like, sees them and it's like, you're great. And I'm like, if this was a woman's character, would he have done that?
- [48:36]
C
No. He'd be like, I need to see you read it now. Like, upside down.
- [48:38]
A
And so I'm just like, okay. Like, again, he's just like, yep, you got the job. And is just doesn't even need to audition. He turns around and leaves, no problem. And then the night before the scene, he's like, I'm gonna stay up till 2am so that when I get there, I look like. And, like, I look like I've been up and I've been like, you. You know, I've been this bad kid that's been drinking all night. And then like, I'm like, in detention. And so he wakes up at like 5 or whatever time he needs to wake up. Like, he only gets, like three hours of sleep and he hits the snooze button and he sleeps for like two and a half more hours.
- [49:09]
C
Well, surely he'll get fired then if he's late, Chris.
- [49:13]
A
No, of course he doesn't. Because he shows up to out fully two hours late and he's like, there's no cell phones. Like, it's the 80s. I literally can't. There's no way for me to contact these people other than just to show up two hours late.
- [49:24]
C
Yeah.
- [49:24]
A
And so he gets there and Jennifer Grace sees him and she lays into him and is like, how fucking dare you do this to me? I, like, stuck my neck out for you. Not only are you embarrassing me that now, like, I recommended you for this and you're two hours late. It's so unprofessional. But now I've been sitting around, I look stupid, and he does not care at all. He says, I gave her great material to be mad at me in the scene. She was really annoyed with me in real life, so I gave her. He's not upset. He's not even cringing that he's being unprofessional on the set.
- [49:57]
C
Even John Hughes is like, well, you're here. Great, let's get it.
- [50:00]
A
He's like, oh, you're finally here. Okay, let's start shooting. Does not care at all.
- [50:04]
C
Yeah. Insane.
- [50:05]
A
And I'M like, again, if this was Jennifer Grey, would this be how it's reacted to or would she be called a diva on set? Would it be in every single gossip rag of like Jennifer Gray causing problems on the set of John Hughes's latest movie?
- [50:17]
C
Constantly late.
- [50:18]
A
Yeah. And so they film the scene and when it eventually debuts, he becomes very famous off of that little. And it's like a two minute scene. He says, I have like 15 lines and most of them are like one line thing. He's barely in the movie, but because the movie is a gargantuan hit, he becomes extremely famous off of it. So his brother Emilio gets cast in this movie called the Platoon. And he's been reading for the Platoon and Emilio's been reading for Platoon. And they don't know if it's the same movie or not. And Emilio gets cast in it, but he has something else lined up. And in the Philippines at the time, there's all this unrest and so it's like not safe for them to go film the movie. And so they have to push the shooting. And when it's time for the new shooting, Emilio, his brother, is not available for the new. So the director Oliver Stone comes back around and is like, charlie, why don't you re audition for it and like, maybe you could do it. And like seemingly he never tells Emilio until he already gets the role, that he's like basically taking this role out from under his brother, which again, like.
- [51:17]
C
Seems like a shitty switcheroo.
- [51:19]
A
Yeah, it is a bait and switch if I've ever seen one. And I don't love it. I don't love it. But he gets cast in Platoon and so this is obviously one of his biggest movie roles. He becomes extremely successful off of it. It wins Best Picture at the Oscars. Like he becomes the lead of an Oscar winning best picture movie. And it's, it catapults him into like an amount of fame that like few people ever get.
- [51:44]
C
Yeah. And he's young and when he's shooting the movie they like put them through like a fake basic training that actually sounded like horrible and real, like truly torturous.
- [51:52]
A
Like, like, like torture and like should have been illegal. They basically do basic training with all these real corporals so that they can like do it all for real. Yeah, it's very weird. It's very psychological weird. They shoot the movie in chronological order so that when people die in the movie they're like taken away. And so they really like are then disappeared basically from the set because they like, they're done shooting. You know, I mean, like, they're. And so they're like, okay, you're done. And so it, like, feels real. And it's like, again, cyclical. Because this is like, exactly what happened to his father when he's shooting Apocalypse Now.
- [52:26]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [52:28]
A
He's always, like, sneaking around and doing, like, substances or drinking. And, like, there's always some, like, he's.
- [52:34]
C
Always sneaking it and getting away with it or. Or people will be like, hey, we know that you're like, we know that you're. You're going to get drunk, but, like, try to get, like, a little less drunk today before we shoot. He's like, okay.
- [52:47]
A
He's like, I'll try, but I probably won't.
- [52:49]
C
Yeah.
- [52:49]
A
So they shoot this movie. It debuts. Ferris Bueller's Day off debuts. He becomes so, so, so famous right away. And he is with this woman named Dolly that he is dating. And as he gets super famous, he, like, doesn't want to be with her anymore, but he doesn't want to break up with her and doesn't know what to do. And so he starts to attribute using cocaine to, like, deal with the fact that he doesn't know what to do about Dolly.
- [53:18]
C
Always a great thing to do when you're at a conflict is to add a new substance to the mix.
- [53:23]
A
Yeah. A funny, weird, random story is that he goes to Arkansas and him and Dolly meet at the time. The governor. Right. He's the governor of Arkansas. Bill Clinton.
- [53:34]
C
Yes.
- [53:34]
A
And he, like, goes there, and Bill Clinton keeps being like, who's this Dolly character? Like, let me know about where Dolly's staying tonight. And is, like, trying to fuck Dolly.
- [53:45]
C
Yes.
- [53:45]
A
And Charlie's like, when the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke, he was like. I tried to, like, say, like, yeah, he's a philanderer. Gross, disgusting man. But no one wanted to listen to me because I was like, like, on substances. Because I'm Charlie Sheen. Because I'm Charlie Sheen. And he's like. I, like, saw firsthand where he was, like, trying to fuck my girlfriend that night after we had just met him.
- [54:07]
C
And the other witness to that was Alan Ruck, who was also in Ferris Bueller's Day off. And then later, succession.
- [54:13]
A
Yeah. And so he ends up breaking up with Dolly, but he becomes so famous overnight, and everyone wants him to come to these places. And this is one of the things that I want to read. He talks about how, like, one time, at one moment, you could be hanging out with David Bowie, and then the next moment you would be like, Hanging out with Madonna and he says, can't fully describe it, only to say that a different language was spoken behind these guarded VIP doors. I got the sense that everyone was in the know, but couldn't quite put a finger on what it was they all knew. So much of it had to do with privacy and the safety within that privacy to express wild ideas without being told we were insane. The unincluded were quick to denigrate that world as a hubristic dog pile of kinky sex and fancy drugs. Did those elements have a seat or two at those neon tables? You betcha. I mean, come on, look at the crowd we were dealing with. It was certainly a part of it, but not anywhere close to being the central it. Bouncing like a pinball between conversations with the most unique and creative folks alive was exhilarating. At any given time, all facets of the arts diamond were represented for me to ricochet between from one accidental masterclass to another. A guy can learn a lot when the night's travels include Madonna and Jack Nicholson. When I wasn't comparing handguns in the spago bathroom with rock stars, I was in front row with the Lakers dating one of their cheerleaders, a ponytailed blonde named Susie with a heart of gold as the team colors on her miniskirt. We went to Hawaii together, and it was fun and perfect and safe. I flew on private jets to the championship games of all four sports acronyms usually booked the day of. They wanted me there, and that was enough motivation to high five every single invite. I was the town's favorite new movie star, and we were both gonna have our way with each other.
- [55:46]
C
I mean, he's like 20 years old.
- [55:48]
A
And every door possible was open to him in every way and every drug thing, person, so. And like anything he wanted. And especially back then too. It's like now it's like so flooded with so many people. Like back then when you were famous, every single door that you wanted open to you was open to you just because you were an actor.
- [56:06]
C
And there was a level of anonymity too, because there wasn't social media in the same way. There wasn't cameras on phones like there are now. There's just so much. There was so much more that was happening that we aren't ever going to be privy to.
- [56:24]
A
Yeah, and that he doesn't talk about. Cause there's so many times when he's not. And again, he has guns. When does he buy a gun?
- [56:32]
C
Yeah, he never talks about when he started buying guns, but he does always seem to have a gun.
- [56:37]
A
He always has a gun. And I'm like, for what? He always has a bodyguard. Like, that's the other thing is, like, he's telling these stories, and then he's like. And then my bodyguard did this. I'm like, so you just, like, always have our entourage of people with you?
- [56:46]
C
But he, like, I think he had to always have someone on staff because I think he knew he needed someone to make sure he got home every day.
- [56:53]
A
Truly. And, like, to protect him from himself.
- [56:55]
C
Yeah.
- [56:55]
A
Not like others, you know? So Dringo, he gets invited to the Playboy. I don't even think this is a Dringo, but I'm making it a Dringo. He gets invited to the Playboy Mansion. It's gonna be a cookie crossover if nothing else. He gets invited to the Playboy Mansion. And he's like, this is every, like, straight man's wet dream come to life. Like, it's what you wanna do. Like, I wanna bang every one of them. This is living, baby. He's so excited. And then he gets there and he looks around and he's like, this place is a fucking dump.
- [57:21]
C
This is a theme. This C keeps coming up with all of our. Like, with our Kendra Wilkinson memoir with Holly, with Crystal Hefner. It's like everyone's like, actually, the Playboy Mansion is disgusting.
- [57:33]
A
Yeah. Like, it should be condemned for, like, mold, you know?
- [57:36]
C
A window has not been cracked open inside of that building in decades. It's Gray Gardens for man.
- [57:43]
A
No, like, truly. He's like, I'm gonna vomit. Like, seeing this. And again, he's like, not even. He's like, I do some cocaine sometimes and I would do it on the weekends. Like, he's not saying, like, I'm on benders. I'm going crazy. Like, I'm doing all this stuff out of nowhere. In the book, at least. He's like, my family tells me to come to a birthday party for my dad at 9am at his house. So I show up, and my mom gives me a hug, and she says, I have to ask you something. Are you armed? And he's like, no. And he's like. And he. Yeah, like, not a weird thing for his mom to ask him at all, right? And he's like, no, but I have a gun in the car. Wink. And then he walks into his dad's house, like, ready for a birthday party at 9am and he turns the corner, and there's a semicircle of chairs, and there's one open chair. And he sees Rob Lowe, and he sees his parents and his siblings. And he sees Bikram that, like, rapist yoga instructor. That's a documentary about noted rapist.
- [58:38]
C
More documentaries have been made about this man than have been about Charlie Sheath.
- [58:43]
A
Correct. And he's there. Cause they're her best friends and, like. And I'm like, ah. I'm like, ah, I wonder why. And then they're like, we're intervening on you like, this is an intervention. We've all written letters. Like, exactly. What you see in a movie, like, as a parody of an intervention is exactly what happens to Charlie. And Rob Lowe's, like, please get clean. It'll do wonders for your career. Like, we're worried about you. Like, look at me. I'm clean now. And I'm, like, having the best time. And, like, look, everyone loves me again. And, like, you can too. And this will be so great. And he, like, doesn't want to do it, but then he goes to Promises Malibu. Right? Is what it is that he goes to. Which just the name check of Promises Malibu is incredible.
- [59:22]
C
It, like, does. So it, like, heals my, like, early 2000s heart to hear about it from the other side.
- [59:28]
A
Yeah. And he called it, like, a shakedown, like. Cause he's like, they don't really help you there. It's just. I'm not slamming rehab. I'm not slamming rehabilitation. I'm not trying to say the 12 steps don't work. I'm not trying to. But, like, there are places that help you, and then there are places that are like, I can make money off of you coming in here 75 times. And he elaborates that that's what Promises Malibu is allegedly.
- [59:47]
C
And I feel like we all. We all sort of knew that by, like, how many celebrities went there for exhaustion in the early 2000s?
- [59:53]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [59:55]
C
When I was, like, a tween and I would hear about someone going in to rehab for exhaustion, I was like, why aren't they drinking more water? Like, beyond me. Like, what could they possibly be doing with their bodies?
- [60:06]
A
No. And I'm like, I'm also tired. You know what I mean? I'm like, can I do this? Like, that'd be so great, you know? Yeah. Why aren't they drinking more water?
- [60:13]
C
I was so confused. I was like, why are they so tired?
- [60:16]
A
And so he's like, first day in rehab, he's like, I'm gonna leave because I need to go to the Palm Springs bikini contest. And this, like, matronly, like, nurse who, by the way, Dringo so many times he'll be like this black nurse that was there. And he. And he doesn't talk about anyone white being white, but he talks about every other person that's black or another race or color or anything is like immediately gonna tell like, you all about how not white they are. And he often, he calls someone like, brown Dave. At one point I'm like, oh God, no, please no. Like, that was really bad. So there's a Dringo throughout this. Like honestly enough Dringo to put you at promises mouth 100% for that. He's like, I'm gonna leave. You're just gonna deal with it. And he's like, and if I don't show up at 9:00am, I'll give you $1,000,000. Cause I need to go to this hot bikini contest.
- [61:09]
C
I would be praying that guy to never see his face again.
- [61:13]
A
She was like locking the door and throwing away the keys. She's like, okay. And he wrote it on a little thing and gave her like a note. And this is in the documentary. And then he goes to the bikini contest and he's like partying his face off and he's having the best time of his life. And then he gets back at like 8:45, he strolls in the door and she's like, fuck. And then like, he like takes the contact and rips it up in her face. And then she's like. And she's like, God damn it. And he's like, told you I'd be back, bitch. And then he like goes to Promises and goes through his steps and he basically says he gets sober for all of them. And again, like, this is a time where like out of nowhere his family intervenes on him and we have no idea how much substance use he's doing. Do you know what I mean? When he talks about his intervention in the book, are you at all in the mindset that he's like out of control?
- [61:54]
C
Not at that point, but it's like, I know he will be so. Which makes me think he's not being totally honest about where he was at, that his entire family was like, you need to sit down and we need to get a hand on this.
- [62:06]
A
No, he does not at all paint the picture of like, him needing to be intervened on by every member of his family and Bikram, you know what I mean? Like, there is not him detailing that amount of like, use that everyone is sitting him down for a stone cold intervention to then have him be brought to a rehab that day.
- [62:24]
C
Exactly.
- [62:25]
A
And so it's like that's the beginning where I was like, oh, you're totally leaving out so much of, like, what you're doing.
- [62:30]
C
Yes, totally.
- [62:31]
A
And he says, like, I got sober for all of them. Like, it's not that he feels that he needs to do it for himself. He feels that, like, to get them all off his back, he needs to get sober. And so he says that he feels like he's playing the part of a sober person.
- [62:45]
C
Yeah.
- [62:45]
A
And so he stops using cocaine and just hides his drinking.
- [62:49]
C
And with, like, wine and coffee cups, it does seem like he lets a few close people in on what he's doing.
- [62:57]
A
Well, yes. I have another thing that I want to read. Yes, this is a very interesting thing also, is that he says the switch had officially been flipped out in public. I had to keep the drinking below the radar. I tell the waitress to hide my wine in a mug and spend many dinners looking like a guy who had a real problem with coffee. It seemed like everyone knew I was supposed to uphold the new image, and if they didn't, their friends would share too loudly the whispered info. I did my best to keep it in check and drink just enough to have a good time, then shut it down when the next movie was starting. I had to run a tight ship. To strengthen my odds, I took cocaine off the menu. It had a habit of seeking balance by doubling the level of booze consumption. Can never control or predict others. But I felt pretty confident if someone flashed a bag, I'd be able to honor my resolve. For every person I came across who supported my new lifestyle, there were easily three or four who were thrilled to learn we could knock a few back away from prying eyes. They clearly wanted to party with the image they'd created and not the snore fest they feared I'd be molded into. I figured out early how to pick out those who just wanted a story for later versus the authenticians engaged in the value of actual me. Not authenticians. I couldn't even. I couldn't even read that. And the guys, I know how to read.
- [64:03]
C
You know what that is.
- [64:04]
A
But, like, just here, they clearly wanted to party with the image they'd created. Not the image that he had been giving people based on his partying, but the image that they thought of him and not the snore fest they feared I'd been molded into. As in a sober person, it paints.
- [64:21]
C
A picture of what he feels a sober person is like. He feels sober is boring.
- [64:26]
A
He feels like, yeah, a buzzkill. And he doesn't talk about aa. He does not talk about getting sober. And there's a part of me that's like, if he doesn't want this to be a book about recovery because it kind of isn't. Like, it's hot. Yeah, it's not. And like, I'm fine with that being it. But like, I never find out from him in this book how he feels about sobriety or how he feels like, or how hard it is for him even. Even.
- [64:51]
C
Right.
- [64:51]
A
He doesn't even say, like, it was extremely difficult for me to not do cocaine.
- [64:55]
C
Right. He'll be like, and then a year later I relapse. And then like, you, you skip the sober times, which to me would be the times he would have clarity on.
- [65:04]
A
And I would want to hear like, does he miss substance use? Like, does he miss drinking? Does he miss doing like, or like, why was this, was this agony for you to hide it? Like, we never hear if this is even hard for him. Like, I just read him talking about having to hide all of his drinking and it being like, who can he confide in? Like, that's terrifying to think about.
- [65:22]
C
Yeah.
- [65:22]
A
Like, who am I going to be able to reveal is like a person that I could confide in that I'm still drinking. Yeah, like, that's scary. You know what I mean? And like, he probably feels really alone.
- [65:33]
C
It doesn't feel like someone who thinks a lot about how he feels. The word I would attach to this whole memoir is momentum. Like it feels like he's constantly like going from. In a way that makes me so anxious.
- [65:46]
A
Oh, I had so much anxiety reading the, like listening to these stories of him talk. It's like. Cuz it's like he's, he really is, and I hate to use this term, but he's always chasing the dragon. That's how it always feels. And I know that's like the most, the most cliche thing about addiction ever is like chasing the dragon. But like he's constantly chasing it from the. From now on, that's all this book is, is him like talking about stories of him 100 being very hardcore into substance use and it graduating and then like him getting sober and then relapsing and then. And not feeling that. That's a big deal.
- [66:23]
C
You're right, Chris. I feel like the thing about him is like the thing he thinks is interesting about himself is the things he did on drugs. Those are his best stories to him. Those are his like favorite times to him. He even says at one point, like, he was working with John McGinley, he had worked with him on Platoon. And he was working with him again, I believe, on Wall Street. John McGinley then went on to be on Scrubs. They were hanging out. They had a big scene to do the next night. They were drinking. John McGinley stops drinking. And then some sex workers show up. And he's like, and now is my cue to leave, and I need to get a good night's sleep before this big shoot tomorrow. And Charlie's like, not me. And he says, I hope John's eight hours of sleep were worth it. We can live the stories or hear about them later from others. I chose the former. And I do think that is how he feels. He feels like life is about good stories and fun and, like, if you're a loser, then you're sober.
- [67:19]
A
Yeah. And he doesn't have remorse. Like, I don't feel any remorse from him doing any of this, which is, like, tough. Tough but true. So my favorite part of the book and also my part where I'm gonna go on my biggest rant. He meets an American hero named Heidi Fleiss. Oh. And he's like, I met Heidi Fleiss. And immediately I thought she reminded me of Candy Ann from Las Vegas, the woman I lost my virginity to. And I was like, and I'm proud to be an American. Like, truly, like, that is me. When he's meeting Heidi Flice, and he's like, she's incredible. And she, like, is a madam, and I'm obsessed with her, and I love sex workers. And I'm like, great. And he is like, I. I hit it off with her, and she's all business, and she's great, and she's exactly what I need because I want a lot of sex, and I want to pay for it, and she can provide it for me forever. And he pays two girls $12,000 from midnight to whenever. And he's like, so great. And again, like, one time he goes to NYC and he takes his, like, hair extensions out, and he's like. And I had to get a girl from Heidi because I had nine hours to, like, sleep. But in that nine hours, I needed to get high and bang someone without.
- [68:31]
C
My hair extension and so I could.
- [68:32]
A
Get my new hair extensions because I hated them. And I'm like, he was just, like, calling on her forever.
- [68:37]
C
Yeah.
- [68:37]
A
And they have this incredible relationship.
- [68:39]
C
I need to know how much money in total he spent, because if he was spending $12,000 on one day, one.
- [68:45]
A
Night with two girls, you have to.
- [68:48]
C
Wonder how much money he spent. And also, I didn't realize Heidi Fleiss was, like, in her 20s when all of this went.
- [68:53]
A
No, she's young. There's a podcast. It just chronicles her whole life. It's called Heidi World. And it is so fucking good. Because it's just like, truly is, like, the most researched thing about her whole life. And I remember listening to it a couple years ago, and I loved it.
- [69:06]
C
I mean, it was. It was a dark reintroduction to her reality. To see on the docu series, her.
- [69:12]
A
Sitting amongst many birds, the molting birds that have no feathers, like macaws at that, for her to look. And she's. It's tough. It's rough and tough, rough and tumble. That's what she does. Heidi gets busted by the cops. You know, she get. The feds, get her. Eventually, she's like, I knew eventually I was going to all come down, crashing down, but I didn't know what else to do. And she says, I have not ever given up anyone that was one of my clients. And she's like, and if you think that a guy in Hollywood maybe once paid me for a girl to go have sex with him, he fucking did.
- [69:49]
C
Yeah.
- [69:50]
A
And she's like, to this day, I've never ratted anyone out. And because Charlie one time paid her with travelers checks that had his name on them, those travelers checks that he decided to use were in my possession. And so he was linked to me. I would have never ratted him out. And to that, I say, charlie Sheen, you are a fucking stool pigeon.
- [70:15]
C
I love how much she hates him. I love that he let her be on the docu series knowing she was going to be like, this guy's a little piece of shit. Charlie is a cry baby pussy bitch.
- [70:25]
A
He's a fucking stool pigeon.
- [70:27]
C
Yeah.
- [70:28]
A
And I fuck it, like. And I don't deal with rats. This is me talking. I don't deal with rats. The fact that. Because earlier in his career, we skip over this, but at one point, like, some producer from Red dawn or another movie tries to rat him out to Oliver Stone to be like, don't have him in Platoon. Cause he drinks too much and he's using substances. Don't have him. He's a liability waiting to happen. And you shouldn't have him in his movie. And so the producer of Platoon that comes to his door and knocks on the door, and he's like, I've heard that you were doing crazy shit. You better tighten your shit up, and I'm gonna rat you out to blah, blah. And he's like, that Guy's a buzzkill, and he sucks. And, you know, he, like, demeans this person, calling him, like, a busybody, to put it nicely. And, like, he, like. It's like this guy's a rat, and then Charlie's a fudgeing rat. He's a total rat, a fucking stool pigeon. And I don't fudgeing like rats is what I'm saying to you.
- [71:19]
C
He tried to even play it off. He tried to play it. He's like, they told me I was going to go to jail for a nickel. Also, you can't say that. You're a guy from Malibu. You've always been a millionaire. You can't say stuff like that.
- [71:30]
A
I'm like, yeah, call their bluff because, you know, they don't have evidence on you and, like, protect your girl. Yeah, I don't like that. And he rolls on her, and she. They never speak again.
- [71:40]
C
She goes to jail.
- [71:41]
A
She goes to prison and does the fucking time. And she's like, I have a code. Look, I have a code. You know what I mean? And I'm not a fucking stool pigeon. And Charlie Sheen is, and he's a fucking loser, and he's a rich kid from Malibu, and he's a fucking turd. So all this to say, clearly, we all understand my opinion of him rolling on, you know, ratting out Heidi Fleiss, which I don't like. And later he'll, like, he'll be like, and then this other guy didn't rat me out in rehab, and I loved him for it. And I'm like, yeah, well, no one likes you because.
- [72:08]
C
Yes, totally.
- [72:09]
A
You know what I mean? Like, you can't say the same about yourself, Charlie. Which I don't like.
- [72:12]
C
How does he sleep?
- [72:13]
A
And again, it's another example of him, like, he's fine. So, like, it doesn't matter what happens to anyone else, or if, like, his family is upset or, like, his child that he has at this point that we've never heard about.
- [72:24]
C
I know.
- [72:25]
A
Like, where's his child, Cassandra, that he had with his, like, high school sweetheart? We don't know.
- [72:30]
C
I mean, you know, she's not participating in the documentary. Even if they have a fine relationship now. Like, there's something to be said about that.
- [72:38]
A
Yeah. And he says that he testifies against Heidi, and he sees that as him taking the fall for all of Hollywood because he was the only celebrity that had to testify. And I. My blood was boiling.
- [72:55]
C
He's such a martyr.
- [72:56]
A
Such a martyr. Yeah.
- [72:57]
C
Ridiculous.
- [72:58]
A
I think the other thing to note Is that he's like, I don't actually want to deal with the emotions of any of this. I want to pay you money, you come over, we do the deed, and then you leave. Like, he says that in interviews, which is like, there is a huge power imbalance there, for sure.
- [73:14]
C
And a misogyny and being like, we all know the worst part about women, it's that they stay and talk. So now I don't have to do that. Which is like, an inherently, like, horrific, misogynistic take on a whole ass class of people.
- [73:30]
A
Yeah, it really. No, it's.
- [73:31]
C
You have to wonder, like, I would love a documentary on all of the sex workers that I've had.
- [73:35]
A
All of them.
- [73:36]
C
Yeah.
- [73:36]
A
Could Candy and come forward and then Could Candy and come forward with all the rest of them.
- [73:42]
C
There's so many of them. There's so many of them. You have to want. When he's like. And then we disappeared for, like, the next one 24 hours, I'm like, that sounds like 24 hours of hell for those women.
- [73:50]
A
Well, in this part, too, he starts to really start to get into heavier drugs and harder substances. And there are people that. It's like, I then hooked up with this girl who was, like, giving me crack.
- [74:00]
C
Yeah.
- [74:01]
A
You know what I mean? He meets Donna at a cigarette commercial, and they get married, and they're doing all these drugs. They, like, don't even stay married for a year. And then he's like. And Donna doesn't give up any stories about me at all.
- [74:12]
C
That's. That's kind of a terrifying thing also.
- [74:15]
A
And so I'm like, so what stories were there that you didn't. That she didn't tell.
- [74:19]
C
Right. That you're not telling in this here memoir of yours, he then meets this.
- [74:25]
A
Girl, Sandy, who is, like, big into substance use, and he, like, rescues her from this other guy, and she goes back to him, and she's like, I have a crack pipe. Do you want to do it with me? And he's like, I don't think I do. And she's like, I'll show you how great it can be. And she falls to her knees and she starts fellating him and gives him the crack pipe. And he does crack for the first time. And he's like, it is incredible. And he then says, like, a couple years later, that girl Sandy then died from drug use.
- [74:51]
C
I do wonder how many of these women do make it out of their addictions.
- [74:56]
A
Yeah. And even now, Brooke, who he then marries later, is like, she's still on her Road to recovery.
- [75:01]
C
Like, now, that was a tough. That was a tough visual of Brooke, too.
- [75:06]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So Charlie's substance use escalates at this point, and he starts using crack cocaine. He does Brett Ratner's first movie, Speaking of rats. And he has a 32 hour nosebleed from how much cocaine he is doing. So he tells us that the reason he starts using crack cocaine is because it doesn't give him nosebleeds. And he thinks that it is easier for him to hide from all the other people on the movie shoots. And again, it's these stories we always hear of. Like, this was like, how I got to doing these worse drugs and worse drugs, because it's like the thing I was doing so long that was a party drug, then stopped being possible for me to do. And so I then had to move on to the next thing.
- [75:45]
C
Right.
- [75:46]
A
And so he starts doing intravenous drugs. And like, that is a huge step for him, he says. And like, it starts to get really. Cause then he's really into hard substance use, and it's really taking its toll on him. There's a woman named Jane who's with him, and she sees a picture of his daughter Cassandra, and she says some remark about her that he doesn't like. And so he says, like, you need to get out. And this is the one moment where he does, like, admit to, like, physical altercations with people. He's like, get out of here. And he calls his friend to come pick her up, and he says something like, I think probably calls her a slur or like, calls her a slut or like a piece of trash or something. Again, I'm. That's me saying this. But she then gets mad and starts attacking him. And he's like. And she was the one that attacked me. I didn't attack her, but I was, like, defending myself. But she. I had to pay her a settlement and get a restraining order against her.
- [76:39]
C
It's. That story is so crazy because then he's like. And then she willingly broke the restraining order and made me have sex with her two times. Who would do that if they actually were scared of me? And all I could think was abused women.
- [76:51]
A
Yeah. Women in the throes of addiction and substance use.
- [76:55]
C
Yeah. Desperate women. Desperate, desperate people.
- [76:58]
A
Exactly.
- [76:58]
C
Probably.
- [76:59]
A
And he's like. And she showed up at my door with a limo and was like, if you don't come outside and me right now in this limo, I'm gonna say that you're at my house trying to kill me. And you're gonna go to prison. And he's like, so I had to go bang her. And, like, I had to. And even if all of that is completely true, it's, like, still not. Like, you're not the victim in this situation at all.
- [77:17]
C
Yeah. He has no introspection whatsoever. And I think. I think what's insidious about him is I think he thinks he speaks respectfully about women.
- [77:27]
A
Yes.
- [77:27]
C
Cause he's. He'll be like, oh, she was a great gal. She was so cute. Great gal. 1.
- [77:32]
A
She was so gorgeous. She was pretty and beautiful. He says, like, so many times. He's like, I'm so innocent. And, like, I didn't do anything. See, she showed up and, like, wanted to me again. And the media circus that, like, ensued made my image horrible. And, like, the media is terrible and blah, blah, blah, and all this stuff. And then immediately the next story is that he tries to shoot cocaine through his veins and is hospitalized and almost dies.
- [77:57]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [77:58]
A
He then has to go back to rehab. And, like, there's a story of his bodyguard throwing drugs over the gate of the rehab so that he could smoke crack in rehab.
- [78:08]
C
I wondered, like, what it was like to be his bodyguard if you were, like, at all concerned about his sobriety or if you're just, like, worried about your check. So you're just like, yeah, like, okay, I dropped my boss off at rehab a day later. He wants me to bring him crack. I will bring him crack. Like, it's an interesting dynamic.
- [78:23]
A
It's an extremely interesting dynamic. And especially to be like, oh, I'm just gonna please my boss and just continue to have him be on, like he's in a facility to help him get sober. And you're throwing.
- [78:34]
C
There are so many times in this book where people on his payroll are watching him near death, help him keep getting sicker.
- [78:42]
A
Yeah, correct. And even when he's in inpatient rehab, again, the privilege of this man, when he is in inpatient rehabilitation, they let him leave so that he can go shoot Being John Malkovich. And the people shooting that movie think that that's an okay thing for him to do.
- [79:02]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's gotta work.
- [79:04]
A
He's gotta work. So we get into the part of the book where we then really see how much he is rewarded for being a mess.
- [79:13]
C
Yeah.
- [79:14]
A
So Durango, he loses 20 pounds on the Zone diet for a pilot, and that pilot is Two and a Half Men. He then gets a call to step in for Michael J. Fox on Spin City, and he starts doing that, and then Meets Denise Richards on a movie shoot and he proposes to her. Right after Dringo, the 911 to purpose pipeline. He proposes to Denise and is like, 911 told me that I need to be with this woman and I can't take the world on alone. And Denise is incredible and I want to be with her forever.
- [79:44]
C
Honestly. The most bizarre take from 9 11.
- [79:48]
A
And so that's another Dringo again, like, they're coming at you hard and fast.
- [79:51]
C
He does also get lipo at one point, which I must point out, he does.
- [79:55]
A
Correct, correct. He does get surgery. This part of the book he talks about. There's so many stories of him just like, being in and out of rehab.
- [80:01]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [80:01]
A
And at one point he has to like, flee the police because they're trying to find him to bring him to court. At 9:30 in the morning, he goes to Slash's house and is like, mira Sorvino's there. And she's like, if you go and show up at this court date, I will fuck you. And he's like, I'll see you there.
- [80:17]
C
Why was Mira Sorvino having coffee with Slash? I need to know. It was like at 9am it made no sense. It was incredible.
- [80:24]
A
Made no sense.
- [80:25]
C
Incredible.
- [80:26]
A
So he marries Denise Richards. In the documentary, she's like, it's years later. It's years after they're divorced and his twin boys that he has with someone else, she's like, at a certain point, I had to take his kids and raise them because there was nowhere for else. Like there was nowhere else for him to go.
- [80:42]
C
Denise cares about everyone. I fucking love Denise Richards. I loved her on Housewives. I need her back. I. I think you're. She's so Midwestern, it kills me. It's. The accent is so comforting to me.
- [80:54]
A
For all the things that you might say about her, like, and especially now with her going through her own very public divorce to that fucking monster piece of shit Aaron. She is like, at. You know, they're doing Two and a Half Men, and I would like go over and like, he would come down the stairs with two sex workers and I would just make all three of them sandwiches.
- [81:13]
C
I love her.
- [81:14]
A
And I just wanted them all to eat because they clearly had not eaten in two days. And I just. And people were like, oh, this is just normal. And it's a peek into, like, how horrible I'm sure their marriage was.
- [81:24]
C
Yeah. But you can tell she's just like, she will love him forever.
- [81:29]
A
And she feels that she's bonded to him because of what they. You know, he claims he never cheated on anyone he's ever been married. Don't believe it.
- [81:35]
C
Don't believe it whatsoever.
- [81:36]
A
Don't believe it for one second. Okay, Joe must leave us because we've been talking for so long, and there's. I mean, there's so much even left to get to. I will have more stories to get to. Oh, yeah, but, Joe, let's do the booktoll test before you go.
- [81:50]
C
Okay, Great.
- [81:51]
A
Joe, was the author vulnerable in the sharing of their truth? Truth?
- [81:55]
C
No. I mean, no.
- [81:57]
A
It's a big no. Big resounding no.
- [82:00]
C
I think they shared a lot of really interesting stories, but I don't think they were fully truthful or vulnerable.
- [82:07]
A
He had story, like, I love that Mira Sorvino was at Slash's house having coffee at the middle. In the middle of the night and then said she would fuck him. But, like, that wasn't vulnerable to me. There was no.
- [82:17]
C
In fact, it was filling someone else's tea.
- [82:21]
A
Yeah. Yes. Was it entertaining?
- [82:25]
C
Yes, it was entertaining. It was. Okay. You know what? I have to say, the documentary was more entertaining than the book. The only thing to me that was entertaining about the book was the way he writes. He writes in a very obnoxiously annoying way that could have been half as long, but, like, was still, like, a trip to read.
- [82:43]
A
The first half of the book where he talks about, like, doing movies at the beginning was entertaining. And I liked that, like, peek inside of Hollywood at that time. The part of him just talking about all the drugs he was doing and rehab was not entertaining at all. Where I would say, like, once you get to that part, stop reading the book and then just watch the entire documentary.
- [83:01]
C
Yes. That's such a great. That's such a great primer. Yes. Half entertaining, half entertaining. Very depressing.
- [83:09]
A
Okay, last question. Did reading it elevate your life in any way? No, I want to say no. I want to say.
- [83:17]
C
No, I hate to say it. I mean, I took this book with me to urgent care this week. Not to brag about my sinus.
- [83:23]
A
Lol.
- [83:24]
C
But the doctor was like. She walked in, she goes, is it great? And I was like, what? I was like, no, no. And she was like, oh, I'm just, like, of the age where, like, I love Charlie Sheen. And I was like, oh, then, yeah, give it a whirl.
- [83:38]
A
But even for. Even for that, I feel like it's not the book itself. Like, there was zero emotion of what he's going through where he's just, like, telling you a fireside tale of, like.
- [83:49]
C
His jaunts with, like, the most colorful verbiage possible with, like, as far away as possible from how he actually felt.
- [83:57]
A
Yeah. Which is sad, because I want. I would love to have actually learned what it was like to be him.
- [84:03]
C
You know what it did, Chris? It made me want the memoirs of so many other people. It made me want Candy Ann's memoir.
- [84:09]
A
We need Candy Anne's memoir. I will pay any amount of money possible. Is she still with us? Please come forward, Candy.
- [84:14]
C
And again, please. You know, she's got her little Google alerts on.
- [84:18]
A
Joe, this has been a whirlwind. I know you have to go. I will. I will continue on with the tiger's blood of it all. But where can people find you?
- [84:25]
C
People can find me guest hosting this podcast in Chelsea's stead also. And I'm private online because I am always just posting pictures of my kids. So, you know, Joe Feldman, if you. If you need me, call me, no matter where you are.
- [84:39]
A
And now we're friends forever. That's all. That's.
- [84:41]
C
And that's for sure. Okay, there's one thing that I just want to say. Can I say really quick?
- [84:45]
A
Yes.
- [84:45]
C
When Jon Cryer's wife goes to Charlie Sheen's wedding to Brooke Mueller, because he can't, because he has some sort of prior engagement. So he sends his wife, and his wife calls him and is like, eh, here's the deal. This is not good. You know when you've been to those weddings where the vibe is bad and you can tell and everyone can tell.
- [85:03]
A
The vibe is bad, and his father stands up and says, I hope you two work it out. Like, at their wedding.
- [85:11]
C
Incredible. You know, your kid's gotten married too many times when you can get a little funky with the speech.
- [85:16]
A
Martin Sheen is tired at that point. He's like, I'm sick of this.
- [85:20]
C
Let him rest, Lord. Okay, thank you guys so much. I'm gonna run be with my children.
- [85:26]
A
Okay, we're back. Jo had to go tend to her children, unlike Charlie through this entire memoir, and so she had to leave. And so obviously, the mayor of the Patreon, the mayor of this podcast, Christina Lopez, is now with me. My boss, Christina Lopez is with me to continue to talk so I don't have to just talk to a wall, because I don't like doing that.
- [85:44]
C
Yeah.
- [85:45]
D
I might as well be a wall, though. No, I'm just kidding.
- [85:47]
A
No. No, you're not. No. So I want to pick up back with Denise. He gets with Denise Richards, obviously, like, everyone Our age. I mean, I feel like I can speak for both of us. Christina. Like, everyone our age knows him from Two and a Half Men. And, like, Scary Movie 3 is honestly the place where I, like, saw him, and it was like, oh. Like, at that point, he was like, already kind. Not. I don't want to say the word. A joke, but, like, it was funny that Charlie Sheen was in a parody Scary Movie. Denise is in it with him.
- [86:14]
D
What a time.
- [86:14]
A
As they're, like, together, like, they make fun of him being, like, this guy. Like, being Charlie Sheen in the movie.
- [86:21]
D
And as was the humor of the time of, like, dudes being dudes.
- [86:25]
A
Yeah, of course. Oh, my God. Yeah. So he's with Denise. I feel like she understood him. He understood her in the documentary. She says, like, I asked him once, like, do you remember when you took a baseball bat to every TV in our house? Like, there was violence. I add to that that, like, the only reason he is still here is because so many of those people, like, Tony T. His friend, that's a big character in the documentary being, like, if I felt that if I could stay beside him, like, if things got really bad, I could jump in and help him. Like, she is also one of those people. Denise is one of those people. It's sad that he has so many people in his corner that are, like, keeping him alive. And he doesn't see that, I don't think. And if he does, he does not voice it in this memoir or gives any public appreciation. Yeah.
- [87:11]
D
And we don't know. Maybe he did something in private. But, like, any sort of emotional thing that would give you insight to connect to is lacking in here.
- [87:20]
A
And there's a part of me that's like. He's like, I'm saving that for private. Because it's like, not anyone's. Like, there's a part of me that's like, okay, I can see where. But I would love for him to say that. So I do want to highlight, like, there are times when he's being violent and, like, around her or around people at the bare minimum. And, like, he does not bring any of those things up ever. He barely speaks about his fiance, Kelly Preston, who has since passed, that a gun went off and she was shot by one of his guns. And they both say that the gun just went off and she was. And, like, she's okay, and it wasn't malicious. And, like, we don't know if that's. You know, who are we to say? And it's weird that he skips over it or at least says, Kelly is not here to tell her side of the story. And so I don't want to say it for her. Like, I would love to hear that in the book. And I'd be like, okay. Like, that's at least fair.
- [88:10]
D
Yeah.
- [88:11]
A
But like, he just doesn't even. He barely mentions that they were engaged and she was like, another big celebrity that he was with.
- [88:18]
C
Yeah.
- [88:18]
D
So it's more just like propping up this kind of legend that he wants himself to be rather than an actual reflection of his life.
- [88:25]
A
And he does. That's the thing. It's like, it isn't even like, he's like, wasn't I so crazy for doing all these. Like, he just is, like, telling you the story of how he did all these things. But, like, he isn't like. And wasn't that so great? It's, like, weird. Cause it's not this, like, legend thing, but it's also not like. And then I did something very terrible, which was like, continue to do drugs while I was in rehab and give it to the other people that I was with, in rehab with. You know what I mean? It's very weird. The tone is very strange. Anyway, he has Samantha with Denise. He has a child, Samantha with Denise. And Denise is like, we're gonna split the late night feedings right down the middle. And he's like, fuck, I don't wanna do that. So it's like, I'm like, good on Denise for being like, you think I'm just raising this baby alone? Like, I've seen how you are as a parent and you're gonna do this. And I think he likes her for that. I think secretly he's like. Has respect for her because she, like, wouldn't put up with his. Yeah.
- [89:18]
D
Do you get the sense from him that she's, like, the one that got away or some. Or he has, like. If any emotional resonance happens, is it in this part where he's, like, reflecting on his relationship with Denise?
- [89:30]
A
Like, kind of, but not really. Like, she kind of gets the same treatment. But even in. When you see her in the documentary, she's FaceTiming him and she's like, I'm not holding back. Like. And then there's another time where she's crying and she says, like, I still love him. Like, I still. Like, you know what I mean? Like, she still cares about him and is. Again, they have two children together. Like, he will be in her life for as long as he's on this plane, you know? And she's like, I Still want him to be okay. Like, that's like, beautiful for someone that had to go through terrible things with this person at his hand. And like, he doesn't deserve it, in my opinion. He doesn't really deserve this, like, unconditional love that she gives him. It's like, really, you know, how much.
- [90:15]
D
Of that is trauma response and how much of that is actual grace, you know, and how.
- [90:19]
A
And how much of it is her being like, if I'm not here, who will be here? So they have a kid and then he needs to stop drinking because he gets Two and a Half Men, it becomes a humongous hit. And like, he can't be drunk on set. So he starts doing pills.
- [90:35]
C
Yes.
- [90:35]
A
So that he can hide the substance use and not be like, have, you know, alcohol in his breath as he's showing up to his, like, day job at the CBS Paramount lot, you know, And Denise gets pregnant again and they feel that, like, another child will solve their marriage issues. Lol. And so she gets pregnant with Lola. But before she's even gives birth to Lola, she serves him papers and they get divorced. And as we've seen, you know, they have a very, very tumultuous custody battle and there's all this stuff in court and she has to go to court with him. And it's really bad. He's continuing to hide all of his pill use from everyone on Two and a Half Men. He then starts hanging out with Dringo Matthew Perry cookie crossover and is like. He's at like Matthew Perry's house during the writers strike. And he meets Brooke Mueller at a party with Matthew Perry. A year later, they are married. He then has twins with them, Bob and Max with Brooke. Brooke then begins misusing prescription pills as well after the twins are born, which makes things very much worse. And they eventually break up. And the breakup is so hard that he then relapses hardcore into alcohol. And again, this is at the time where Denise is like, at a certain point, like, I was taking care of Charlie's two twin boys that weren't even my kids. You know what I mean? And so it's like, good on Denise that she's like, I will be a support system to these people that are like, I'm seeing in a terrible position. He then says that Les Full Moonves, he calls him in the book, shows up at his house, another creep, another disgusting person that. And he's like, here is one statement that says that you are going to go to rehab where you are going to get sober. And then here's another, like, PR statement where we're canceling the show because you're out of control. Which one of these do you want to do? And I have a jet in your front yard waiting to fly you to rehab. And he is like, no, I'm not doing it. I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. And so they basically have to take him off the show because he won't do it. And he talks about how he's using this testosterone cream as well, and that he's like. So his testosterone is, like, probably through the roof because he's, like, using all these other things to try to get high without drugs. You know what I mean? And so he's, like, combative, angry. All the things that you do when you're, like, truly roid. Rage is what he's experiencing, probably. And so, because he's like, no, fuck this. Like, I'm not doing it. And then they kick him off of the show before, like, Les Moonves, like, gives him this ultimatum. Like, he's really hardcore into substances, and it's really bad. And in every way, they find a way to give him even more money to continue doing the show. Because Two and a Half Men is, like, the biggest show on television. Denise alleges, still to this day, is paid the most amount of money that any actor is ever paid to continue doing this show while he is fully out of control into every kind of substance use possible. So not only are they rewarding him for bad behavior again, then eventually they're like, all right, we can't do this again. Here's your ultimatum. He says no. He's then replaced by Ashton Kutcher, who is, like, as of right now, a very canceled celebrity for very good reason.
- [93:39]
C
Yeah.
- [93:39]
A
He then is watching baseball, and he sees this baseball player called Brian Wilson.
- [93:44]
D
Who'S not the Beach Boy.
- [93:45]
A
Not the Beach Boy. And also, like, not a player that we know well. Like, we don't know of Brian Wilson. Like, he. This is not a Derek Jeter or, like, an. An A Rod. So a baseball player named Brian Wilson, he watches. He's watching him play baseball, and he's like, this guy looks so great. I'm going to call him. And he calls him. And this Brian Wilson guy is like, yeah, Charlie, we're exactly the same. Like, we have tiger's blood running through us, and we are constantly winning and all these losers. So, like, all of the tiger's blood jargon that he gets is all from this baseball player. He plays it off. He says, that it's from this baseball player. He's the one that said tiger's blood. He's the one that said winning. And this isn't like anything that he made up. It's that he's regurgitating these. And so he then does that. This famous Andrea Canning interview. I remember it well and is like, we're winning. I'm winning, and I have tiger's blood in me, and I'm drinking Tiger's blood. That's how I roll. I have one speed, I have one gear go.
- [94:47]
C
How do you survive that?
- [94:49]
A
Cause I'm me. I'm different. I just have a different constitution. I have a different brain. I have a different heart. I have a different, you know, I get tiger blood, man. Which, like, scarily echoes a lot of, like, alpha male POC on the Internet. We said earlier in the episode, like, it's very, like, Trumpian speak. And I feel like this is kind of the inception of that kind of speak, like, catching everyone in America by the neck and being like, this is what men are. You know what I mean?
- [95:12]
D
I also wanted to make a note here that, like, in addition to, like, the broadcasters being complicit in fueling his spiral into substance use, the media is also complicit because this was one of a series of interviews that several media outlets did during this time. Because his firing from Two and a Half Men was some of the biggest entertainment news. And so, like, it wasn't just this one interview. He was doing a series of interviews, and the media was, like, highlighting this person who clearly was not well and giving him the wrong kind of attention and are as equally complicit into some of the things that the larger Hollywood system is guilty of, too.
- [95:52]
A
He says that the next day after the Andrea Canning interview, he gets so many offers from businesses, products like labels, everything, because they all want to capture the fame of the tiger's blood winning Persona that he's turning into. And so he is clearly not well mentally in this interview in every single way. And then that makes everyone in the world want to make him the spokesperson of stuff. Just to capture the fame of that interview.
- [96:20]
D
Yes. The virality of it. Yeah.
- [96:22]
A
So again, he's rewarded in every single way by being off the rails.
- [96:27]
D
Yeah.
- [96:27]
A
I mean, that was a cultural phenomenon, was him doing the winning. Like it was everywhere. Every commercials made fun of it, T shirts, memes, like, all kinds of shit. Like, everywhere. And, like, he started going on this. I forgot that he went on, like, a standup tour where he, like, told stories and Just kind of like, preached to all these people, again, like, the precursor of all of this, like, male alpha male shit going on a speaking tour. And so he. He talks about that, and he, like, doesn't explain why he doesn't, like, say, like, this was so bad. He's just like, everyone loved it. He then dies down. Like, that all dies down, and we kind of move on with our lives. And he then, in the book, talks about having sex with men. And he. It's very brief, but. And he uses this analogy that he also uses in the documentary that he says that he flipped over and looked at the other side of the menu, and he said that a lot of it was very fun and he liked it. He didn't say, like, I'm not gay. But the way that he explains it is very. I found it quite offensive because when he's talking about women, he doesn't need to make any analogies about having sex with them or flirting with them or doing anything. But when he does talk about having sex with men, it's all an analogy, and it's very vague. And he talks about, like, there were all kinds of things that happened and that was. And not that I need him to, like, tell me every single thing, like, sexually he did with a man. I don't need that. That's not where I find it offensive, but it's very cloaked in mystery and kind of, like, very vague. And he says he's not going to name names. And in the documentary, he says those people can come out of the woodwork and say whatever they want to say, like, I'm giving them the green light. But he doesn't want to talk about it. And I find that it's hard because I almost don't want him to talk about it at all. If you're not gonna talk about having sex with men the same way that you're gonna talk about having sex with women, even if you don't identify as queer at all, he doesn't kind of want to admit to it. And he says that he did it. And there's a part of him where he's okay with it, but he knows that many other people won't be okay with it. It's funny that the only time he's careful about talking about something in the entire book is whenever. Where he's having a queer experience, which.
- [98:34]
D
Makes me think that he's actually not okay with it. Chris. You know what I mean?
- [98:38]
A
Yes. Which also. Yeah, I know. So what he writes is, was some of it fun? You betcha. Was the other side in play without crack. Never. Were those the times that led to the extortion you had to pay those times in others. Is there a sense of relief to finally being honest about these experiences? A big one. And then he throws in a joke. Are you busy later? We'll talk after the show. Which I did not think was funny, and I think there might be some. There's probably shame there. I don't know. Yeah.
- [99:06]
D
Internalized homophobia, definitely.
- [99:08]
A
At the bare minimum. But again, like, he says, like, no, I had fun doing it. I was consenting to doing it. I wasn't like, oops, I fell into this thing. He's like, no, I did it. Like, he is taking accountability. He takes more accountability for that than a lot of other things in the book. But there's a world. It's just very cloaked in mystery, and it's just very. I came away from it being like, wow, you did a very big disservice to what you. What could have been a thing that, like. And not that I need Charlie Sheen to be, like, a spokesperson for queer like sex, but, like, you could have been like, I did this, and it didn't, like, change my world. And, like, this could have.
- [99:43]
D
I think it goes back to what you were saying, that this memoir, in terms of, like, a lacking of reflection includes a lack of really emotional depth and wrestling and reflection as it's intended for, like, the memoir medium. You know, it's like all this internal dialog is supposed to be either processed on the page or with the reader or maybe reflectively. But it seems like none of that is happening in the book at all.
- [100:08]
A
No, not at all. At all. He then is diagnosed with hiv, and weirdly, he's, like, relieved because the medicine that we have now is. It's not a death sentence. He feels relieved, which I find very interesting. And then he basically says that for a long time, he has to just. He discloses to everyone. And he claims that he did not transmit HIV to anyone and that he discloses to all of his sexual partners from then on that he's positive. And eventually so many people extort him for this that he's paying $500,000. Like. And he said, that's, like, me getting off cheap.
- [100:43]
C
Yeah.
- [100:43]
A
For these people not blackmailing me and gonna say that, I'm gonna go to Page Six and tell them that you were HIV positive. And he's paying. At one point, he said he paid $1.4 million to someone to keep them quiet about his HIV status. He then eventually does the Matt Lauer interview where he admits that he's HIV positive. He then says that he stops doing crack after that, but keeps drinking. And then one day, you know, there's all these. I'm skipping through millions of stories of him drinking and still being drunk all the time. And then one day, he's in the car. Samantha, his daughter, calls him and is like, I need you to bring me my haircut, remember? And he's like, I forgot about that. So Tony T, his friend, is in the car with him because he's like, I never drive drunk. I don't want to hurt someone or me. And so he is in the car, and Tony T's there and Samantha's in the backseat. And he can just tell that Samantha's, like, annoyed that, like, someone else has to be there to chaperone her father into bringing her to do an errand. And that he says, that is the thing that inspires him to get sober.
- [101:40]
D
That's interesting, because the last I saw, when I looked into this, Sammy's not speaking to him. She's not on speaking terms.
- [101:45]
A
Not speaking. Yeah, not speaking to him. I know. He then also attributes his sobriety to his grandchildren. So his first child has two grand. Has two children. So he's become a grandfather. And so he says, like, I need to be sober for them.
- [101:59]
D
Could you imagine Charlie Sheen as your papa or whatever? I don't know what you call it. What do you call your grandpa?
- [102:04]
A
Christina? No, Grandpa, I guess, like, I would have called him back in the day, but, like, abuelo. Yeah, Abuela Carlos.
- [102:13]
D
Honestly, that's crazy.
- [102:16]
A
That's. The end of the book is like. He's like, now I've been seven years sober and I'm alive. And that's that. Like, you would. He doesn't sum it up. I was like, oh, the book's over. Like, okay, it's. And there's a world where, like, he isn't preaching to you. And I. There's a part of me that was like, I like that because you shouldn't be telling anyone how to live your life.
- [102:32]
D
But at least, like, leave us with something to, like, finish the taste. Like, what's the end note? You know?
- [102:38]
A
So one of the final lines of the book, Charlie writes, I knew exactly what had to be done. Like, I've always said, life comes down to doers and talkers. And there was really nothing left for me to say. It was time for me to shut the fuck up and get busy doing Sam wasn't my final straw. She was My first harvest. It really hits you now that you know that they don't talk to each other.
- [102:58]
D
Yeah.
- [102:58]
A
That's sad. And then there's the last chapter of the book is truly three lines. On December 11, I took two Valium and drank three beers. On December 12, I quit drinking for good. Happy birthday, Cassandra.
- [103:09]
C
Wow.
- [103:10]
A
Like, he's like, I finally need, like, the whole thing is. So then he just. Then at the end is like, I guess I finally needed to just be sober.
- [103:15]
D
Wow.
- [103:16]
A
And that's the end. There's no, like, my life has been crazy. There's blah, blah. Like, he just, like, kind of gives you an update of that. He's doing okay and is trying to stay sober. And he has. He's a grandfather, and that's it.
- [103:26]
C
Wow.
- [103:27]
D
Okay. So what did you think in terms of, like, what the documentary brought out?
- [103:31]
A
He's an unreliable narrator of all of these things is, I think, because again, like, even if he doesn't remember taking a baseball bat to every TV in the house with Denise Richards, like, the fact that he isn't even mentioning, like, even blame it on the testosterone cream or whatever, there were times when I was doing this testosterone cream and I would have roid rage and I would, like, break things in our house. Like, he's very scared. I feel to, like, admit that he's violent because, like, he. In the. The one altercation he talks about in the book, he, like, blames it on her. And that's very bad. Like, I was like, this is disgusting. He never even really says, like, my family was so upset.
- [104:07]
D
Yeah.
- [104:08]
A
Like, ever. It was quite shocking to read through it and never get that turn where it was like. And my family members were, like, at my door begging me to be sober. Sorry to end this on it down. But, no, it's bad. I didn't love the book. I won't lie to you. The documentary was very. And I loved the other people being in it and them talking about it. You could move the needle in certain ways with how we deal with these celebrities in that documentary. In this book. You can't. There's nothing to take from this.
- [104:34]
C
Yeah.
- [104:34]
D
Maybe that's the sort of button we can put on it. You know, your show is all about fixing famous people, but I think this really illuminates all the systems and institutions that sort of enable them to not be ever fixed because they're profitable more.
- [104:51]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Why? Why fix it? Whenever you're. The gravy train is pulling up to your door and giving you even more money to Then Buy drugs with.
- [104:59]
D
So, Chris, would you say as the monster memoir correspondent, if this quantifies as a monster memoir?
- [105:07]
A
It is a monster memoir. Just because he says that what he's doing and he tells his truth, but he doesn't take accountability for anything. And, like, there's many times when everything else is everyone else's fault and not his. However, is he at Bible club with Chris Drew, Kathie, Lee Gifford, and Lynn Spears? No. Like, is there Christian or Christianity? Is he worshiping Chris Jenner God? No. But is he a monster like Hilaria Baldwin where she blames everything on everyone else? Yes. So I think yes. But just like, you're not getting Kris Jenner God in this, which is sad.
- [105:38]
D
Yeah. No, no. Grift, really?
- [105:41]
A
And he's not doing. No, he's not grifting and he's not like, being like. And then like, I was great and everyone was terrible. Like, it's not that, like, where it's like, Kris Jenner, like, does that every sentence. But it is horrific to read. So I would say, yes, it is a monster memoir.
- [105:57]
D
Okay, Chris, tell people where to find you and follow you and all that good stuff.
- [106:02]
A
Oh, my God. If you haven't already blocked me on every social media possible after listening to this episode, you can find me at thecristarosa and you can find my podcast at Fixing Famous People.
- [106:12]
D
Chris, thanks so much for doing this.
- [106:14]
A
I apologize for what you have to edit now and I. Good night and good luck.
- [106:22]
B
A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and everyplate. We will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier.
- [106:49]
D
You can join.
- [106:50]
B
Leave a comment, chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there.