Danielle Steel’s Memoir Pure Joy (with Sarah Wendell)

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast – Episode Summary

Title: Danielle Steel’s Memoir Pure Joy
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Sarah Wendell
Release Date: April 22, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast, host Chelsea Devantez delves into Danielle Steel’s memoir, Pure Joy, alongside special guest Sarah Wendell. While both women discuss the memoir, they also explore Danielle Steel’s tumultuous personal life, her prolific writing career, and her intense relationship with dogs. This episode provides an insightful and critical examination of Steel’s life and work, appealing to fans of celebrity memoirs and pop culture enthusiasts.

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Guests and Background

Chelsea Devantez introduces herself as a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, and author, passionate about deconstructing celebrity memoirs through a thoughtful lens. Sarah Wendell, co-founder of SmartTrashyBooks.com, has been hosting the long-running Smart Podcast Trashy Books for over 20 years. She is recognized for her in-depth discussions on romance novels and has been featured in numerous prestigious media outlets.

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Overview of Danielle Steel

The conversation begins with Chelsea providing an overview of Danielle Steel’s illustrious career. Known as one of the best-selling authors of all time, Steel has sold over 800 million copies of her books by 2021, authoring 190 books, including more than 140 novels. Chelsea humorously notes, “You know Danielle Steele from her movie and TV adaptations or as I did, which is seeing her name across my favorite grocery store aisle” (01:20).

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Danielle Steel’s Memoir Pure Joy

Sarah introduces Steel’s memoir, The Dogs We Love: Pure Joy, highlighting that Steel has authored two non-fiction, memoir-adjacent books. Initially hesitant to delve into a dog memoir, Chelsea confesses her reservations: “If I could ask you, Sarah, like ballpark, how many dogs do you think have been in and out of her life?” (16:26). Sarah estimates, “Oh my gosh, it's gotta be at least 50, possibly 60” (16:38), which Chelsea finds overwhelming given her own experience with pets.

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Steel’s Personal Life and Marriages

The discussion shifts to Steel’s personal life, particularly her six marriages. Chelsea expresses shock upon learning Steel has been married six times: “Is it six? The Internet says five.” (26:00). Sarah confirms, detailing each marriage and highlighting the complexity and drama surrounding them. Notably, Steel’s marriage to an inmate who was later convicted of rape and robbery raises red flags about her personal choices and motivations: “Why would you tolerate that?” (23:28).

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Obsessive Relationship with Dogs

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Steel’s obsession with dogs. Both hosts critique how Steel treats her dogs more as accessories than living beings. Chelsea points out inconsistencies in Steel’s memoir, such as claiming not to be a dog person while dedicating entire chapters to her numerous pets: “She is not a dog person. She just wrote, you cannot be.” (19:48). Sarah adds, “It's like they are almost like accessories,” emphasizing Steel’s lack of genuine empathy for her pets.

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Prolific Writing and Work Ethic

Danielle Steel’s relentless work ethic is another focal point. Sarah discusses Steel’s ability to produce an astonishing number of books: “She just talks about how she writes a book for 20 hours a day” (11:34). Chelsea marvels at the sheer volume, questioning the feasibility and authenticity of Steel’s claims: “I wouldn't trust her writing her own memoir.” (10:20).

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Critical Analysis and Personal Reflections

Throughout the episode, both hosts critically analyze Steel’s narrative style and personal disclosures. They highlight how Steel’s portrayal of her relationship with dogs often undermines the emotional weight of her experiences, such as her son's suicide: “Are you kidding me? That's... traumatic” (43:11). Chelsea relates personally, sharing her struggles with dog-related anxieties, which contrasts sharply with Steel’s detached recounting.

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Notable Quotes

• Chelsea Devantez (16:26): “Do you need a Dog name. Because they're all here. You can just pick one of these.”

• Sarah Wendell (20:48): “So she's decided that she's gonna find a black miniature dachshund puppy who looked just like the one that he lost.”

• Chelsea Devantez (33:14): “I don't get into bed until I'm so tired I could sleep on the floor.”

• Sarah Wendell (54:10): “She has this massive lifestyle that just reeks of unhealthy obsession.”

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Conclusion

In wrapping up, both hosts reflect on the impact of Steel’s memoir. Sarah acknowledges a fleeting positive moment from the book, appreciating the reminder to cherish relationships with dogs: “You don't always get a chair. And then it's up to us to figure out how to fill our time and make it a good life” (33:44). Conversely, Chelsea emphasizes the detrimental portrayal of pet ownership in Steel’s narrative, advocating for responsible and empathetic treatment of animals.

Final Thoughts: The episode provides a comprehensive critique of Danielle Steel’s memoir, blending personal anecdotes with an analysis of Steel’s life choices. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of the complexities behind celebrity memoirs and the importance of authentic storytelling.

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<a id="timestamp-0120"></a> Timestamp References:

• 01:20 – Introduction to Danielle Steel’s career.
• 10:20 – Chelsea’s skepticism about Steel’s work ethic.
• 11:34 – Discussion on Steel’s writing habits.
• 16:26 – Estimating the number of dogs in Steel’s life.
• 16:38 – Chelsea’s reaction to the number of dogs.
• 19:48 – Critique of Steel’s portrayal of herself as a dog person.
• 23:28 – Analysis of Steel’s unhealthy personal relationships.
• 26:00 – Revelation of Steel’s sixth marriage.
• 33:14 – Steel’s relentless work ethic.
• 33:44 – Reflection on cherishing relationships with dogs.
• 43:11 – Discussion on the traumatic aspects of Steel’s memoir.
• 54:10 – Additional critique on Steel’s lifestyle obsessive traits.

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Connect with the Hosts:

• Chelsea Devantez: Follow on social media and join the conversation on Spotify, Instagram, and Patreon.
• Sarah Wendell: Listen to her podcast Smart Podcast Trashy Books, follow on Instagram @martbitches, and on Bluesky.

Support Independent Bookstores:
Visit Libro FM for audiobooks and support local bookshops. Use code Trash for two audiobooks at the price of one during your first month.

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Note: This summary omits all advertisement segments and focuses solely on the in-depth discussion between Chelsea Devantez and Sarah Wendell regarding Danielle Steel’s memoir, personal life, and relationship with dogs.

Transcript

[Chelsea Devantez]

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[Chelsea Devantez]

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[Sarah Wendell]

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[Chelsea Devantez]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dig into all of the glamour and all of the trash. I'm your host Chelsea devontez, TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author. And sometimes I'm in stuff too. And today we have an episode about Danielle Steele. But I do want to acknowledge that today, April 22nd is the day that Tina Knowles book drops and Christy Brinkley's book is coming up. But both of them refused to give us early copies. So your Tina Knowles episode is coming. Your Christy Brinkley episode is coming. But I need to give my guests time to read the books. Now. I would love to hear from y'all. Do you love when an episode drops the day the book comes out? Or do you not care? You just want it when it's ready? Do you like having time to read the book yourself? Leave us a comment on Spotify, on the Instagram, on the Patreon, let us know. Anyways, those episodes are coming. But today we are book clubbing the Absolutely Unhinged Dog memoir from Danielle Steele. As in the Danielle Steele best selling author, one of the best selling fiction authors of all time. She has over 800 million copies of her book sold as of 2021. She has written 190 books including over 140 novels. You know Danielle Steele from her movie and T TV adaptations or as I did, which is seen her name across my favorite grocery store aisle. You know the magazines, the books and the magic markers Danielle Steel books. You could buy them at every grocery store. You still can. Now this memoir is titled The Dogs We Love. Pure Joy, published in 2013. Danielle has written two non fiction books and they are both memoir adjacent. And previously another cookie had messaged me about the one that she had wrote about her son's passing and his mental health. And I was going to cover it, but you know, given these dark times, we decided to read the dog book instead. Now at first when the book arrived, I regretted that decision. I am obsessed. I'm obsessed with my dogs. If you follow me on Instagram, you know I'm annoying about my dogs, but I don't want to read a dog memoir. However it turns out I do because this was incredibly insane and the gems that were buried in this book was worth every paragraph about her chihuahua. I cannot wait to tell you what's in the book. So let's see. Dive in. My guest today is Sarah Wendell. She is co founder and Current mastermind of smart trashybooks.com now in its 20th year, Sarah hosts and produces the long running smart podcast Trashy Books. Featured in oprah magazine as one of 21 best book podcasts to listen to when you're not reading. She is also the author of four books and has appeared on CBS Sunday Morning Good Morning America, and she has been part of a question on NPR's Wait, Wait, don't tell me twice. That's wild. Hi.

[Sarah Wendell]

Hi. I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. And thank you for introducing me to this incredible memoir. I had the best time reading it. I cannot wait to talk about it with you.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I. I would have never found my way to this book had I not found my way to you. And I want to talk about this for a second because it's been a while since I've introduced one of my guests with the story of how we first met. And we've not like met in person. We met online because a little convoluted. But on another episode of this podcast, I was talking about how I was dying to find some content about the Gilded Age that could make some tie ins with the oligarchy happening now. And also just sort of like, how did people survive? How did they get out of it? How could we make the Gilded Age go faster? And. And I was like, I can't find any of this content. I almost cut this tangent because I said, this will be relatable to no one. And a cookie messaged me your podcast.

[Sarah Wendell]

I had just recorded that episode a couple of weeks prior.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh my gosh. Okay. And so you had. I love this. You had romance author Joanna Shoup on. Yes. I'm saying that right. Right.

[Sarah Wendell]

You are saying that right.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And all her romance books are set in the Gilded Age, which makes her a Gilded Age expert. And she has this newsletter holding our hands through these times. And then I saw your podcast was called, like, Smart Podcast, Trashy Books, and dot com, and I was like, where's this woman been all my life?

[Sarah Wendell]

Yep.

[Chelsea Devantez]

How have we not been connected?

[Sarah Wendell]

I don't know. Our vibes are very similar.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Very, very similar. Okay, so will you please tell everyone who listens to this podcast about your podcast? Cause I think people are gonna love it.

[Sarah Wendell]

Smart Podcast Trashy Books is my little pet project. Like, I was just telling your producer, I read Podcasting for Dummies so I could learn how to use this whole software thing. Started in 2009, and then I took over producing in 2011. Currently in the episode number 660 something.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Unbelievable.

[Sarah Wendell]

We have two sets of types of content. Every other week I do an interview, usually with an author, sometimes with readers, librarians. Recently, I interviewed Stacey Abrams and Princess Mabel d'Orange about vow for Girls, which is a organization about stopping child marriage around the world. When I tell you my inner 13 year old could not keep her cool. Like, I was just like, I'm talking to Stacey Abrams. And I had to send like an email beforehand. Cause I also produce. Yeah. What would they like to be called? Would Princess Mabel like to be your royal highness? Princess Mabel? Like, how is she addressed? And they were like, oh, no, just call her Mabel.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay.

[Sarah Wendell]

Yeah. So then I send the same thing to Stacey Abrams and like, just call her Stacey. And I'm like, you don't understand. I don't think I could do that. But okay, I'll try.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah.

[Sarah Wendell]

So I have met so many incredible people, and the general vibe of that section of the show is if I'm thinking that it's interesting and it's related to books, I want to talk about it. And much like you, I know, I know you've built up this skill too. Having conversations with people you don't know very well. But making a connection quick enough that it feels intimate is a skill that I love, that I've developed. Like, I really enjoy that part of my show. The other two weeks, we are recapping an out of print magazine called Romantic Times, and it ran from 1981 to about 2018. Here is a sample issue of Romantic Times magazine.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, sir, that man has my hair that's like down to his back.

[Sarah Wendell]

That man? Yes, that's Sheriff Fortempte. He is the 200th episode. I actually have gossip about Danielle Steele from an episode or an episode, an issue of Romantic Times going back to 1988, which I brought for you.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh my gosh. Okay, can we start with that?

[Sarah Wendell]

So Daniel Steele is not specifically a romance author. Most of her books are sagas. Sometimes it's more women's fiction. Sometimes there is a romance in the story, but it doesn't end happily. Usually by the end there is a happy ending for at least some of the characters because the books end on a. On an uplift. And I read a bunch of her sagas. I remember so clearly being at the beach in New Jersey in the 80s and 90s. And you would just see the little Danielle Steele covers. Cause they all look the same. They have a big candy color cover with the words. And that was it. It was just the title and author name. Every book was a different color. And you could just see all these different colors going down the shore. Of all the people reading Daniel Steele, preeminent beach read, basically.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Wow. Also, doesn't she do a brand new author photo for the back of every hardco cover? And she has over 190 books. So that's 190 author photo shoots in different outfits, which makes her my favorite person ever.

[Sarah Wendell]

I should also introduce you to Rebecca Brandywine, who was a historical romance author. She. I don't know how she had this kind of pull with her publishing company, but she would find out what the historical romance cover was gonna look like. And I mean like big skirt, low bodice, there's a mullet, multiple windfields going on. She would dress herself to match the heroine on the COVID on the back of every book. It's my favorite thing to look for in a used bookstore. What's Rebecca wearing on this one?

[Chelsea Devantez]

I love that so much. Okay, so I have a quick question for you. Yes, I've learned a little bit more about the romance genre, which is that to be a classic romance book it has to have a happy ending. And there's this sort of formula to it. So why do I, and I think many people think of Danielle Steele as a romance author. Is it just because her books were for women and therefore that got attached to her in the Zeitgeist?

[Sarah Wendell]

A lot of it is definitely the idea that there was romance, sometimes there was sex. And there were like big emotional sagas between multiple families. One of my favorites of hers was written in 1987. It's called Zoya and it's about a girl who was best friends with the Russian Imperial family right before the Russian revolution. And so she was friends with all of the princesses. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm learning history and they're stupping. Woo hoo. So like, I was very excited. There was romance and there was tension. A classic romance is a courtship story. It is a story of courtship and it ends happily.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay.

[Sarah Wendell]

Danielle Steele sometimes has courtship, sometimes has romance, but not necessarily to fit every definition of a romance. So she's sort of romance adjacent is what I would call it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, okay, Makes sense. Okay, so we had her two nonfiction books. We chose the dog one. Just overall, before we dive into some of the most unhinged shit I've ever read, what did you think of this book?

[Sarah Wendell]

There is something I tell myself when I meet a really obnoxious human being on the street. And I'm like, I could just kill this person. This person's been really rude to me. I don't like them. They were just really objectionable. And I remind myself, look, somewhere they might have a dog and their dog loves them very much. And I'm like, okay, everyone has a dog. Their dog loves them very much. This is a universal love. So the thing I think that is the safest conversation topic is often pets. So I love this as an introduction to something that's clearly very important to her. But this was unhinged. This was a very sweet book about dogs coupled with a very unhinged story about the woman writing it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Absolutely. It was almost my favorite way to get a memoir from someone like her because I wouldn't trust her writing her own memoir. But I do trust her writing about dogs and accidentally letting us know she's absolutely out of her mind. I loved that. And it also makes her make sense. Like, what person puts out seven novels a year every single year? And she says she doesn't use ghostwriters and all. There's all this drama. Well, I believe her. After this book about dogs, I believe her. Now I've. Okay, crime. What is the tea? I skipped over the Danielle Steele T.

[Sarah Wendell]

Okay, so Danielle Steele has been a figure within the romance publishing world for a very long time. She's one of the most successful authors. She's still writing books. I think the only person I think of in romance that's really still writing and written more than her is Nora Roberts.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Wow. Okay.

[Sarah Wendell]

Nora Roberts is like well over 200 books at this point. I don't even know the title. Danielle Steele is famous for being a workaholic. She just talks about how she writes a book for 20 hours a day. And I'm like, oh, okay. She's a very interesting figure because many romance readers know of her. And for many romance readers, she was their entry into the genre. Like, oh, there's more books like this, but it's just the courtship part. But she's also not really been part of the romance community. I don't think she considers herself a romance author. But as I said earlier, we recap this out of print magazine because it's incredibly fun. And one of my earliest issues in my collection is from 1988, and there's this gossip column in just about every issue by somebody named Flavia Knightsbridge. And I think that there are different readers for Flavia going through the years because this magazine kept going from the 80s to 2018.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Wow, Flavia sounds like something you would find in an anatomy textbook or a body oil.

[Sarah Wendell]

Okay, so there were two pieces of gossip about Danielle Steele in this issue, and I found them to be incredibly funny. First, naturally, while on the Gold Coast, I happen to all sorts of delicious things. You should have seen Danielle Steele's turquoise Mercedes and the two identical ones trailing behind filled with her children. She has nine this year, two of his, two of hers and five of theirs. Ms. Steele's hair, by the way, is now a bright red and her complexion will probably match when I let out of the bag her most guarded secret, how much money she's getting per book. She has her publishers sworn to secrecy, but it's incredible. Now, this is a bit of a lie here because what Flavia goes on to do is ballpark based on other authors. Barbara Taylor Bradford got 10 million for several books. Jackie Collins was 5 million for probably a two book contract, according to Flavia. Add to this fact that Bradford and Collins write only one book a year and Steele has cut back to two. Also, Steele sells more books worldwide now passing the 90 million copy mark. And again, this is 1988. My educated guess is that she's getting at least 5 million per book, maybe even 6. God. And the IRS only know the royalties for her very active backlisted titles. How much they rake in a year as well. Zillions, my dear. Now, you did know that present Bantam chief Linda Gray discovered Danielle during a short stint at Pocketbooks. So, like, she was just plucked out of obscurity. The other funny piece of gossip that's on the same page, and it has no point other than to be catty, is that Danielle Steele was toting 29 pieces of Vuitton luggage for her book promotions. So she Travels for book promo with 29 pieces of Vuitton luggage. And as we learned, one of them is probably a dog carrier.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes.

[Sarah Wendell]

So matching turquoise blue Mercedes with all of her kids. There's a scene in here where she talks about getting into a van to go away for the weekend and I'm like, no, no, no, I know already. You, you drive multiple Mercedes. Don't lie to me.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, yeah. Also who's. There's only you and your husband. So who's driving the third Mercedes? Is it one? I hope one of the dogs. All of that tracks. She's done an interview where she said like, my kids won't teach me how to online shop because my retail problem is like crippling. And she's a maximalist. And she loves, she loves which girl? After my own heart, that is. I love her vintage tea.

[Sarah Wendell]

And if you think about that, that was 1988. It's many more millions by now.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh yeah, also a time when an author could make that. Oh my God. What?

[Sarah Wendell]

I know, Shocking.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I was like, wow, remember those days? Okay, that's gone. I can't even imagine our most popular author even comes close to making that. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. What do you think? There's an author who makes 5 million a book.

[Sarah Wendell]

There's a publication called Publishers Lunch and they will talk about deals in terms of. Nice, very nice, extremely nice. And it's like up to 500,000.

[Chelsea Devantez]

That is such polite literary language. Nice, very nice, very nice.

[Sarah Wendell]

But you know, you'll hear about people getting a six figure multi book contract. There's a couple authors who will get a six and seven figure contract. No question.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I definitely have heard of six and I've heard of seven, but I have not heard of like 5 million a pop for your seven books a year. But I don't trust my intel. I trust your Sarah. Wow, okay, that's incredible. Well, listen, it is time. It's time to get into the dog book. And I want to start with something in something that I couldn't fully appreciate until I had finished the book, which is that if I could ask you, Sarah, like ballpark, how many dogs do you think have been in and out of her life? And I don't mean other people's, I mean like how many dogs do you think have come through her houses in total just by the stories in this book?

[Sarah Wendell]

Oh my gosh, it's. It gotta be at least 50, possibly 60. Like even just the dedication page. I wrote on the dedication page. Do you need a Dog name. Because they're all here. You can just pick one of these.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes. Okay. So that's what got me. I finished reading. I said, there's gotta be, like, she must have had 40 or 50 dogs in her life, easy. And then I said, well, wait a minute. She dedicates the book, you know, to her family. And then she says, for all the good times we shared with our crazy and much beloved dogs, past and present. And then she lists the dogs. Then she says, and somewhat grudgingly, to these two dogs, Trixie and Sweet Pea. Right. So ostensibly has listed all the dogs. No, no, no. She. She cut out some of the dogs from the dedication. And I think that's what really sums her up to me, that there are stories of beloved dogs she had for 10 years. Her first dog, Elmer, didn't make the cut.

[Sarah Wendell]

No.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I was just like, wait a minute. You truly were like, 15 of these dogs don't deserve shit. Do you know what I mean? Like, why did she cut out Elmer from the book? And Elmer's her very first dog. Right.

[Sarah Wendell]

It's very weird. And, you know, I have had a lot of pets. I currently have. I make, like, a normal number of pets for like, a. I have two cats and a dog. I used to have two dogs. And I can name all of the pets that I've had as an adult, starting when I moved in with my boyfriend, now husband. I was like, oh, we have to adopt cats. And my theory being that if we adopted cats, then we wouldn't break up.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, okay. And it worked.

[Sarah Wendell]

It worked. It worked very well. And those cats lived a long time. We're really good house for elderly pets. We do elder very well.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I love that.

[Sarah Wendell]

But, like, even then, it. I can count them on one hand.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah. But I don't believe she forgot because she wrote chapters she wrote about dogs. She didn't like dogs with boring personalities. And those dogs didn't make the dedication.

[Sarah Wendell]

Boring personality? Really? Okay, first of all, it's a dog. And second of all, I don't think that that's the dog's problem here, that you don't think the dog has. I think that's a skills issue.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, I completely agree. And so everyone, you've just heard us say that she's written a book about dogs. There's one specific dog on the COVID There's 50 dogs in her life. Now listen to what she wrote on page five. She said. She said, I am not a dog person. I am more of a kid person, as witnessed by the fact that I have Nine children. I can never resist a child, especially my own. But dogs have been a part of my life since I was a child. But some have been better than others and more memorable. Until recently, I never had a dog with a real nose. She talks about this pug she had, and she said, unfortunately, he died the same year. My mother left when I was six. Which must have traumatized me in both cases, because although I had other dogs after that, I never got seriously attached to another dog for many years until I was an adult, even though there were always dogs in my life. And in a sense, I suppose I am a dog person because I like them. There are statue of dogs by assorted contemporary artists in a multitude of all colors all over my Paris apartment.

[Sarah Wendell]

But she's not a dog person. She just has dog statuary. It's fine.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Get your ass to a mirror. Maybe she writes by just writing and never going back up and rereading what she has just said. I'm not really a dog person. I just wrote, you cannot be. This woman cannot be trusted. She's not to be trusted with a detail or factor analyzation. This is.

[Sarah Wendell]

This is not the most accurate narrator that we have ever encountered.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Except there's times where I'm like, oh, this is extremely accurate because you shouldn't be saying this to us. Like, this is not what you would make up for your life in that. On page eight, she says, but then I married a man who was a serious dog person. Dogs re entered my life in mass. He had a very old black miniature dachshund whom he adored, who had the incredibly bad timing to die during the weekend. We got married. So my brand new husband spent the day after the wedding crying and mourning his dog, which is. I do really feel for that. That's like. That feels like that would hurt a sign it's wrong. Like. And then she goes this paragraph at.

[Sarah Wendell]

The bottom of the page. I could not get over this. This statement about that. I could not get over it. Like, this is what stuck with me.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, read the part that hit you the most.

[Sarah Wendell]

So she's decided that she's gonna find a black miniature dachshund puppy who looked just like the one that he lost. Okay, so, okay. Questions, but. Okay. And we weren't planning to honeymoon for another month. She was a very sweet puppy, and I put her in a big blue Tiffany box that one of our wedding presents had come in and presented her to him that night. He was ecstatic. And he named her Sweet Pea. Then this is the part that just Absolutely. Blew my top. Like, I wanted to call Whole man disposal. Yes. The entire man.

[Chelsea Devantez]

In the ensuing months, I'm sor. Do you have that copyrighted whole Man Disposal side hustle?

[Sarah Wendell]

That's a meme on the Internet. It's a big picture of a garbage truck with, like, the little man outline from a bathroom just going. Stacked in there.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes.

[Sarah Wendell]

Anytime my friends send me stories about, like, a bad date, I just send them like, yeah, Whole Man Disposal service. Yes, the entire man. We want to pick that up.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Amazing.

[Sarah Wendell]

You can call them now because they do need to pick this man up. And in the ensuing months, Sweet Pea taught me a lot about co. Owning a dog. According to John, she was half his and half mine. What I didn't know when I made that deal was that the front end was his and the back end was mine. She was very difficult to housebreak, and any accidents were my responsibility since the back end was mine. John had a rather creative way of draping paper towels over sweet peas mistakes like flags. So I wouldn't miss them when I got home and had to clean them up.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It's such a toxic marriage and a toxic dog and a toxic woman who has gifted her husband three days after his dog died, a new replacement dog who ends up hating Danielle and pushing them apart. And they do stay married for, I think, almost a decade. What did you take away from that paragraph the most that he thought millionaire author should be his trad wife?

[Sarah Wendell]

I honestly don't know, because I know Danielle comes from a very wealthy family. I think her. If I remember, beer magnets, right. Yes. Her father is the descendant of the Loewenbrau beer family, and I believe her mother was a diplomat, which is why she spent so much time in France, I think. And so she comes from money, and this guy had money. He was a shipping and cruise magnate, you know, in the 80s when that was a big deal. And, like, I don't understand one, why you would tolerate that. And two, why was that their dynamic? Yeah, I will give you a placebo dog, and I will clean up its poop. Like, was she trying to make up for something here? This is. This is absolutely unhinged behavior.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And it's so. It's so bad for the marriage. And I'm just gonna. I'm gonna skip ahead to page 18, and then we're.

[Sarah Wendell]

Can I stop you for one detail on page 10?

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes.

[Sarah Wendell]

So sweet Pea and John and Danielle all sleep in the same bed. And when she slept in bed with us every night, she would sidle over to Danielle's side of the bed.

[Chelsea Devantez]

We.

[Sarah Wendell]

And then go back to John so she could snuggle up on a dry sheet. So not only does this dog not like her, but in her sleep, this dog is peeing on her.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Peeing on her. She was like. And I'd have to get up and clean the sheets. Like, it doesn't. It feels like they live. I don't know if you're a Housewives fan, but Salt Lake City has Bronwyn, who is crazy rich, and she invites people over to her house, and there's just dog shit and dog pee everywhere, which is hard from anyone, but especially someone with that much wealth. You're like, do you instruct your housekeeper to, like, not touch it? Like, you're going to extraordinary lengths.

[Sarah Wendell]

This sounds like the girls next door, because Hugh Hefner used to let his dogs crap and pee. And all the. All the people who lived in the house, all the playmates, their dogs just went. And no one cleaned it up. And I'm like, how I freak out when my elderly dog has an accident. He uses a pad.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah. Yeah. No one enjoys this. And it's in the bed. And I mean, it's the entire marriage. Because again, three days after they get married, she gives him a surprise dog. So I'm gonna read something on page 18. And then we're. Take a tangent. And many years later, when I remarried, I gave my new husband the dog of his dreams. And I said, this is how we are talking about. You gave a. You get remarried, you give a different husband a dog. Have you not. No, this is the same dog.

[Sarah Wendell]

This is the same guy. This is still John. He gives John a Rhodesian Ridgeback because John, I believe his name is Triana. T R A I N A. I'm not sure how to pronounce that correctly. They have five kids, plus blended family children. And he's the one who's like, every child gets their own dog. So not only is it this dog, but every single child has their own dog.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Really beautiful times to let everyone know that she is so rich. She lives in a San Francisco mansion with 55 bedrooms and a ballroom. I will obviously post pictures of this when the episode goes out on. Yeah.

[Sarah Wendell]

When she talks in the memoir about going to the San Francisco house, she. First of all, we'll get to this. But she has dogs that live there that she doesn't travel with.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah.

[Sarah Wendell]

And she has staff to take care of them. So she has a whole crew of people running this house. And there's poop on the ground.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah. But wait a minute. Let's go back to what you said about. This is the same husband. She said, yeah. And many years later, when I remarried, I gave my new husband. I missed that.

[Sarah Wendell]

You're correct. You are correct and I am mistaken. Thank you.

[Chelsea Devantez]

So she's giving dogs, dogs to husbands over and over. This is also. Listen, I was new to Danielle Steele. I don't know her history. So I lost my goddamn mind when I found out she'd been married five times. I said, yes, of course, because in my head, she was also a romance author.

[Sarah Wendell]

So I was like, six times.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Is it six? The Internet says five. Well, anyways, I. I do want to give everyone a trigger warning for the rest of this episode as we discuss. Discuss some husbands and these marriages. We are going to discuss sexual assault briefly and suicide. So take care while listening as we dive into these husbands. So, Sarah, it was 6.

[Sarah Wendell]

Oh, yeah. I think it's 6. Because she got married at 18. Okay. And then she divorced him because she met an inmate in jail who was then sent back to prison for rape and robbery. She married him in 2017.

[Chelsea Devantez]

You're going to have to stop right there because we have to. You just. You said it. So Brazily. Sarah. And we really need to stop.

[Sarah Wendell]

Down, down.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay.

[Sarah Wendell]

She married him in the prison cafeteria, 1975. But this is the man for me.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Important to the marriage is Sarah has just told you all this woman comes from money. Her mother was a diplomat. She meets a man who is currently in prison because she is interviewing someone else and sees a hottie inmate to her left and was like, but what's your deal when he gets out? They date. He then goes back to prison for rape charges that he's obviously convicted of. And that's when she marries him in the canteen of the fucking prison. Okay, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll come right back into the episode. Did you know you can give yourself an eyelash curl just by using the tips of your fingers and pressing your eyelashes upward? This is especially helpful if you have finicky eyelashes, lashes. And my favorite mascara of all time is Thrive Cosmetics Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara. It has five different shades. It doesn't have clumping, smudging, or flaking. And it comes off really softly and gently, which is really nice. It looks like lash extensions. Thrive cosmetics makes certified 100 vegan and cruelty free products. And Thrive Cosmetics donates to causes with every purchase, including domestic violence, which is a very important cause to me. Go get your Liquid Lash Extension mascara and discover your new trusty favorite from Thrive Cosmetics, luxury beauty that gives back. Right now, you can get an exclusive 20% off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com glamorous that's Thrive Cosmetics. C A U S E M E t I c s.com glamorous for 20% off your first order.

[Sarah Wendell]

Marvel Studios Thunderbolts will take the world by store.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes, there's some things right out there. And you're gonna help me stop it.

[Sarah Wendell]

Us why? You got some place to be on May 2nd? Avengers are gone. No one's coming to save the day their time.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I think we could be the people.

[Sarah Wendell]

That are coming has come being the hero.

[Chelsea Devantez]

There is no higher calling.

[Sarah Wendell]

Let's do this. Marvel Studios Thunderbolts only in theaters May 2nd. Get tickets now. Rated PG13. Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13.

[Chelsea Devantez]

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[Sarah Wendell]

The one thing Homest among us has not.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Come on. I mean, that. I mean, listen, if you're gonna marry an inmate, do it after he's been newly charged with a sexual assault of a nut. Like, this is horrifying. And so we can't really trust my Internet information because, like you just said, she was married six times. But I pulled this article that said when she meets her second husband, Danny Zugelder, that's when he was serving. And she said they divorced in 1978, but the steamy relationship inspired Passion's Promise and now and forever, the two books credited with launching Steel's career because they're like prison inmate, like robbery, like sex marriage books. And so I. There's a tiny part of me that's like, did this bitch do it for the story? Was she like, this is research to launch my career?

[Sarah Wendell]

Who even knows? It's certainly within the realm of the possible. Like, I can't think of another reason to do this.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Sure.

[Sarah Wendell]

Absolutely. For the research. Why not?

[Chelsea Devantez]

Why not? Okay, we're gonna come back to this inmate, but then let's go back into the marriage of Sarah. Is the next one John Traina?

[Sarah Wendell]

No, there's another one in between there.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay.

[Sarah Wendell]

78 to 81. She's married to another person and his name is William George Toff. Then comes John of the every child gets a dog and you own the back half and clean up the poop. Then a gentleman named Thomas Perkins. And then Ian Matthews, divorced in 2022.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Which is so recent.

[Sarah Wendell]

Six. Six marriages, you're right.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, you know what I said I thought it was five. Because in 2013 when she publishes this book, it's five, but then Ian is six. None of them work out. Okay, so I have extra weird little juice about John Trainor, which is that it's a little convoluted, but Sean Wilesy, the son of Al Wilesey, wrote this almost 500 page scathing memoir about his stepmom and basically his parents, Al and a woman named Pat. Al and Pat were together and then Al cheats on his mom, Pat, with her best friend Didi. Now, Didi was married to John Trainor, John Trainer.

[Sarah Wendell]

That's a whole story in and of itself.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes. And basically Danielle Steele and Dee Dee had both been having an affair with Al. Al. Wisely, Dee Dee gets Al and marries him. And then Danielle, as a the second prize goes and marries her ex husband, John Traina.

[Sarah Wendell]

This is some Shania Twain weirdness.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I know, I know. And so we will come back to all of this, but let's get back into the book. It's really not. But on a timeline. So she bounces around between who she's married to. But then on page 20 we get this casual writing detail. She says my son's miniature Boston bowl was way too active for me since I write for 18 and 20 hours at a time when I'm in the heat of a book or facing a tight deadline. And then a cookie. And a friend of mine who lives in LA sent me this passage from the book 4000 Weeks, where Danielle Steele.

[Sarah Wendell]

Said, I saw this and almost fell off the couch.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Right. She revealed the secret of how she'd managed to write 179 books by the time she turned 72, releasing them at the rate of almost seven per year by working almost literally all the time in 20 hour days, with a handful of 24 hour writing periods per month, a single week's holiday each year, and practically no sleep. Quote, I don't get into bed until I'm so tired I could sleep on the floor. She was was quoted as saying, if I have four hours, it's a really good night for me.

[Sarah Wendell]

On her Instagram she posts pictures of the big red couch in her office. Her office Photos on her Instagram are incredible. She has a big sculpture on her wall that I kind of COVID It's a giant version of one of those heart shaped chocolate boxes with individual candies in it. And I kind of lust after this art. It's gorgeous.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Wow.

[Sarah Wendell]

But it is the most. It's my favorite Yiddish word is ungi patchki, which is like over decorated. This is the most ungi patki office you've ever seen. Everything's red. There's a big red couch. Her desk is div. But she says on Instagram, I'm editing on the couch. I always edit on the couch. And sometimes I wake up and find I've slept on the couch because I'm just editing. And I'm like, this is not healthy.

[Chelsea Devantez]

This is. This is dogs.

[Sarah Wendell]

You don't.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Diabolical. You are mentally very, very, very unwell. Which. Listen, I get it. Me too, girlfriend. I just. We are not acknowledging it. And her desk also, we must mention, for anyone who doesn't know, it's incredible is a stack of giant Danielle Steele books forms into a giant desk. And if that doesn't make sense to you, we will post pictures. But her desk is a giant stack of books that are of her books of her own. Hey. Okay, so then the book becomes entirely about a dog named Minnie. And all other dogs after this can.

[Sarah Wendell]

Right off, oh, yeah, this, this dog is the dog.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Minnie is on the.

[Sarah Wendell]

Minnie has had a great life. Of all of the things in the world you can worry about with Danielle Steele, you do not need to worry about Minnie.

[Chelsea Devantez]

No, no. You do need to worry about her other dogs, who I think became literal trash to her.

[Sarah Wendell]

Well, they're both accessories, but in different ways. Like, I have dogs. I've had dogs most of my life. They're not accessories. Like, they're just, you know, furry things that live in my house and are wonderful and fun. And I really think that for her, these are like, like they're almost like accessories. Especially mini.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Well, and she has some weird, weird, like the way she talks about dog breeds versus adopted dogs being like damaged. And of course she's going to breeders and buying pure breed and she's obsessed with breeds and then she buys from pet shops.

[Sarah Wendell]

And my heart just sunk.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, same. I was like, this is disgusting. And then also, ban.

[Sarah Wendell]

New to your pets. Go to a dog rescue. It's not that hard.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Go to a dog rescue. What? Do not buy a dog. You are, first off, you're participating in a really evil industry, but secondly, you are denying all these Dogs who need your love, actual love, because you are treating a dog like an accessory. Or like, think about like buying a child that way. It's like, you wouldn't do that with. Well, I know some people would, but you, most of you wouldn't be like, I'm gonna design a designer child, like.

[Sarah Wendell]

With the dog part too. The thing about mud and mixed breeds and everything, individual dog breeds each come with their own sets of health issues. It could be mitral valve prolapse, it could be enlarged hearts, it could be all of these things. Like, she talks about how she's never had a dog with a nose. Okay? The dogs were bred to be that way. And they cannot breathe. And it is not good. If you get a dog that's a mixed breed, those things can kind of cancel them out.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Can I just tell you that we fostered a dog in the LA Fire evacuation and honestly, 30 minutes in, we had adopted the dog, but it was two weeks to actually file the paperwork. And I wasn't gonna do a dog DNA test just because I did it for our previous dog, but I was like, you know, it's kind of extravagant. It's kind of like, I don't need to do that. And then one night in a hot tub with a vet tech, she was talking about different breeds this dog could be and how we would need to care from him. And I woke up in the morning and I had ordered a dog DNA test at 2am and so we got his results back. He is 18 different breeds.

[Sarah Wendell]

Heck yeah.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And my first dog is 20 different breeds.

[Sarah Wendell]

I'm so proud.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And some because someone said to me, they're like, oh, dog's four different breeds, Isn't that crazy? I was like, oh my God, ours are 2020. Anyways, back into this book. So it really becomes clear to me. I'm curious, your take that Danielle. She's incredibly lonely. She said, I find that no one who is still married or in partnership realizes or remembers how incredibly silent and lonely life can be when you're alone. Can a dog take the place of a person you love? No, A dog is not a person. But lacking a human to spend your time in life with a dog can be a wonderful companion. She continues on like that in a way where I'm like, I wish Danielle had known about blogs because this book was supposed to be a singular blog post.

[Sarah Wendell]

This is absolutely. This could have been a blog. It's like this could have been an email. This just could have been a website. And she used to have a blog. I think she ended it only a couple of years ago. I mean, her blog is just as. Oh yeah, there's archives of it on her website is just as unhinged as this book.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I mean, there's parts of this book where she's like, here's what you need to travel internationally and here's what Minnie did on the flight to Paris, and here's what Minnie's toys are like. And I'm like, listen, I get it. I want to tell all these stories too. But you have to know no one wants this.

[Sarah Wendell]

Do you not know that I was shocked at the idea that she was specifically searching for a dog that would fit the in cabin international weight limit?

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes. And she was obsessed with how tiny the dog was. And she was obsessed that the dog was pure white. And there's a chapter in the book where she's really upset that it turns out Chihuahuas can have light tan spots. And Minnie starts to have these spots and she's like, don't worry, she's still cute though. And it's like, I. I wasn't worried, you freak.

[Sarah Wendell]

Let's unpack that. Danielle, what is the problem with your dog not being pure white? Could you explain that, please?

[Chelsea Devantez]

Really? There was weird stuff where comparing humans to dogs, like, really came through in her aristocracy of how she views like Brandy. She was talking about dogs being adopted and mixed, but it didn't always feel like that. It felt like it was an overarching thing because she also writes this and I'm really curious if you agree. She wrote, and sadly, some dogs are just dogs. You can get a puppy who looks cute but grows up to have no personality and just turns out to be a dog rather than someone special. I've had one dog like that, and one of my daughters had one too. A close friend had a dog that grew up to be very dull. It was named Alice. Some dogs just turn out to be Alice the way some people turn out to be boars. Not everyone has a great personality. And not all dogs do either. It's kind of disappointing when you discover you have one of those. It helps if they look. It helps if they look like they have a sweet personality when you pick them. With people and animals, I am more seduced by personality than looks. As a friend once said about the men she dated, she had a terrible weakness for beautiful, not too bright men, as she put it. When she finally moved on to more interesting, less handsome men. Looks fade, but stupid is forever. It seems to apply to dogs too.

[Sarah Wendell]

Wow. Okay. She never really gets into it. Does she. She doesn't exactly, you know, quantify or explain what are the elements of a dog with a personality. I think it is how much she can project onto the dog and how much the dog fits into her projections. And, you know, a basset hound or a Rhodesian Ridgeback was not going to fit into her projection of who she thought she was. She thinks that she is a pure white teacup Chihuahua.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I think that is absolutely correct. Like, she's talking about herself as she's talking about these dogs.

[Sarah Wendell]

Oh, yeah, this is all projection and self identification. It's really weird, too, because there are moments in this book where she actually kind of gives, like, decent advice. Like at one point on page 33, she says, you know, the last thing I want to do personally is hang on my children and expect them to fill the voids in my life. Okay, yes, good. Excellent. And in life's game of musical chairs, you don't always get a chair. And then it's up to us to figure out how to fill our time and make it a good life. And I was like, okay, Danielle, I'm with you there. I'm with you there. And then she gets like, dog personalities. I'm like, nope, you lost me. You lost me again.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes, yes. I mean, I just wish there was more information about her because there's a couple other things we have to talk about. So the other memoir she wrote, which I have not read yet, and as I talk about it, I just want to give you a trigger warning for some brief discussion about suicide, because the memoir about the death of her son Nick is about his death by suicide. And he was really struggling with bipolar disorder and had three attempts. One really beautiful line in the press from her is that, like, I am so rich, I am so into my children, and I was not able to help my son. And I had all the experts in the world. Everything that we could ever do, we had, and it wasn't enough. So we need to talk more about mental health. And then she holds these big balls that brings money and awareness to this, which I think is so important. But then there's little tiny details. It's not a. But it's just an addition to this. So I'm pretty sure Nick, his father, was the inmate because John Traina then adopts Nick and gives Nick his last name. And this is like a. A secret that Danielle keeps until someone outs it and she tried to sue.

[Sarah Wendell]

Them to stop them from revealing it, too.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, yeah. And I also. We talk a lot about on this podcast because my own History of, like, how adoption, name changes, things like that can really mess with a kid's mental health. He also had that going on. And then to top it, the off, she brings home a dog that kills her late son, still living dog who was deaf and blind.

[Sarah Wendell]

That was very hard to read, by the way. Like, that came out of nowhere. And I was like, oh. Oh, no. Ah, yikes.

[Chelsea Devantez]

We have a Dringo on this podcast for every memoir that does an elaborate story about a dog's death. Please, editors, if you're out there, please stop including this story. This one takes the motherfucking cake.

[Sarah Wendell]

No, it's horrible and it doesn't need to be in here. Especially as blase and, like, unfazed by it. She's like, oh, it was very sad. I'm like, are you kidding me? That's. I'm traumatized. And it was years ago, and I just read and I had to talk to my brain, like, we're not. We're not thinking about this at three in the morning. We are not gonna wake up. We're not gonna wake up and think about this because there's nothing you can do about it, and it's terrible. But you cannot wake up at three in the morning and think about this to process it emotionally. Did I? Yes, of course I did, Sarah.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I need to record that because. Have you ever read Carrie Brownstein's memoir?

[Sarah Wendell]

No.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, my God. Don't. Don't, because.

[Sarah Wendell]

Okay, fine, won't.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Comedian, musician Harry Brownstein an entire chapter on one of the most horrifying dog death situations. I literally can't leave the dogs alone because Carrie Brownstein's fucking book haunts me. This is a financial crisis in my home. What do you mean, can't leave the dogs alone? Like, that means someone has to be here. You have to switch off. Like, that book ruined my fucking life because I think about it at three in the morning.

[Sarah Wendell]

Yep.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Ugh. And this book, I think you're right.

[Sarah Wendell]

About her son Nick, because it says in her Wikipedia, which, again, flaws in the research for Wikipedia fully acknowledged. Steele married her third husband, William George Toth, in 1978 while pregnant with their son Nick. So she. It's very fuzzy. Was it William George Toth or was it Zu Gelder in prison?

[Chelsea Devantez]

Like, yeah, and I think it's probably fuzzy on purpose. Like, I think whatever happened there, and I think that obviously affected her son as well as many other factors. And then just to top it off, she then talks about, like, how you can't tell all Dom dogs apart sometimes and then tells a story about one time seeing her daughter at a birthday party and giving her a big hug and then realizing it wasn't her daughter.

[Sarah Wendell]

Right. Now, I don't want to speak for all people who have had children, but as a person who has had children, I could identify my children, especially as babies, by their smell. And this is a known thing there is. Women can identify their children by smell even if they didn't birth them, even if they're adopted or their foster, you can identify them instantly. Like, wow, okay, that says a lot about how familiar you are with your child.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Said, oh, and listen, I. I'm not judging her. Well, am I? I don't know. Yeah. I said, yes, this is someone who writes for 20 hours a day. I'm not sure, you know, what the kid looks like, which is a choice, but then a weird choice if you're having nine children. Like, listen, working moms get it. She sounds like something different than that. She also said she had husbands who didn't like that she had a career, so she would have to write at night, like it was an invisible thing. And that's how she learned to write so fast and stay up all night because she had to, like, be their housewife during the day.

[Sarah Wendell]

How do you marry Danielle Steele and then be mad that she's writing books? Yeah, Danielle Steel. Like, her first book was in 1973. What are you doing?

[Chelsea Devantez]

What are you doing? Also, Danielle, you don't have to abide by these men's rules. You make millions of dollars. This isn't a financial situation where you are stuck. And then my question to you, Sarah, is, do you think each of these six divorces took her fortune?

[Sarah Wendell]

Oh, goodness, I don't know. I would like to believe that she married with prenups. Maybe not.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Mr. Prison Guy, after reading this, do you believe Danielle Steele believes in prenups?

[Sarah Wendell]

You know what? That's a really good point because she doesn't even believe telling her husband not to make her pick up all the dog poop.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Like, there's no way in prenup dog poop.

[Sarah Wendell]

Yeah, you're right. There's. I would like to believe that somebody said, danielle, you need a prenup. Please listen to me. But, yeah, I really wonder how much of her marriage and divorces has affected her.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, I mean, obviously John Traina was, like, very wealthy. I don't know about the others. I don't know about the latest. Her mansion is still standing. She still has the cars. Like, she obviously wasn't decimated by it. I'M just curious if these husbands got a piece of the pie that they didn't even want her to be baking.

[Sarah Wendell]

I don't know. I would say I read also regarding her son, that she sued a writer who was going to disclose that Nick, her late son, was adopted by her then current husband, even though adoption records are typically sealed in California. And it says that a judge made the unusual ruling to allow the seal to be overturned even though he was still a minor. Excuse me. And confirmed by an appellate judge who said that because Steele was famous, her son's adoption did not have the same privacy right. Are you kidding me? That is gross.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It's so disgusting the way we have talked about and treated adoption in this country, both legally and in the zeitgeist. And it's.

[Sarah Wendell]

Oh, it's egregious.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Barely made progress. And that makes so much sense to me. This brings me back to Lonnie Anderson and Burt Reynolds when they get a divorce, where he's like, well, that's actually not my son because he's adopted. And it's like, whoa, Burt Reynolds. Yeah. Pretty crazy. Okay, there's one more thing we have to discuss. And then we're at the end of the book, which is that there's a chapter about how Danielle Steele has surprised multiple people in her life with a dog.

[Sarah Wendell]

I wrote at the top of this chapter, do not buy people a car or a dog. This is a bad idea. You.

[Chelsea Devantez]

And she was like. And she says, she's like, I know this is crazy. You shouldn't do it. It's a tricky thing, but here's six times I've done it successfully. And she would say, like, you know, they said they want a dog. So then I would go hunt for the right breed, and then I would show up at their house and just hand them the dog with all the accessories. With all the accessories, which is very nice.

[Sarah Wendell]

Workload of stuff. And a dog. Here's your new dog.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Like, she gave a woman who died a year later a dog. A puppy.

[Sarah Wendell]

Yeah, puppy.

[Chelsea Devantez]

So that means walking, caring, like. And here's the thing. There is a world where, like, that was such a beautiful gift and such a, you know, beautiful thing. There's also a world where that was horrifying.

[Sarah Wendell]

I always wonder at these commercials at the end of the year. Buy your loved ones, Alexis. Okay, first of all, do not buy other people a car. It's an appliance that they have to use. It needs to fit what they need. Yeah, but it seems like she thinks of dogs like cars. Yes. She does not have. There isn't a demonstrated understanding here that she empathizes with the dog as a living being with feelings. Like, that's the part that disturbed me the most. Out of all of this. She knows the dogs need care. She worries about Minnie's diet and travel and did you catch it apart? Or she only drinks bottled water because she'll drink the tap water in San Francisco but nowhere else because it affects her digestion. Which, fair, that is true. But Minnie only has bottled water to protect her digestion. And I'm like, she. I mean, this dog has a great life. It's got like nine beds and it has its own Paris apartment. And everyone in Paris loves dogs. Don't pick up their poop, but they do love their dogs. And she doesn't really consider that these are beings with feelings and emotions and anxieties. And like, I have learned so much about my anxiety from caring for my dog's anxiety. Yeah, I don't know why he's afraid of things. I don't know why he's afraid of other dogs. I don't know why Thunder gives him the spooks. And I don't know why he's scared to be alone. It doesn't actually matter why. I have to care for him and make sure he is safe and knows that he is secure. That's my job. And looking at my own anxiety, I was like, you know, I know why some of this is, but it's more important that I acknowledge this is how it's affecting me right now. What can I do to take better care of myself so I don't feel this way. I don't want the dog to hurt. I don't want me to hurt. That helped me. I don't think she considers this dogs having feelings.

[Chelsea Devantez]

She thinks of them as like lattes at Starbucks. She's like, you order one, you don't like it, you send it back. She has a whole chapter on giving dogs away and how you shouldn't feel so bad about it. If it's not, imagine fact. I want to end reading this.

[Sarah Wendell]

Oh, I have an end quote, too.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Oh, yes. Okay. As I said earlier, I find that the answer to many things at this point in my life is why not? I have spent a lifetime worrying about how what I will do will impact other people. I have been a mother since I was 19, earlier than most. And I was a wife for 36 years, starting at 17. For all of that time, and even now with adult kids, I've had to think about how what I did affected someone else. Else. And so then she writes at the end, we've all had our tough moments, our disappointments and heartbreaks. We've paid our dues, we've earned the right to be happy, and we don't have to apologize for it. And she basically says, like, I'm not hurting anyone with caring about Minnie. It makes me very happy and I think it's very fun. And she says, she gives me endless joy. She takes away nothing from anyone else. And life is about joy. And I just wrote, who's she talking to? She's definitely, like, defending this dog obsession to a reader who is not us. And she's just like, I'm not hurting anyone by doing this, and we all deserve nice things. And it just brings me happiness. Okay? And I agree with that. But I'm like, who hurt Danielle Steele about her dogs that started this book?

[Sarah Wendell]

The part where she says, I've spent a lifetime worrying about how what I do will impact other people. Does she not understand that dogs have a form of personhood? That her behavior affects her dogs?

[Chelsea Devantez]

She doesn't. And there was only one surprise to me in this book, and I'm curious if it surprised you. She didn't clone her dog. And she really seems like someone who's gonna try.

[Sarah Wendell]

We don't know that she hasn't, because on her Instagram, Minnie is still there. Now she has two other small dogs on her. I can't believe I stalked her Instagram as research, but I did.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I'm so thrilled.

[Sarah Wendell]

I am honored to have had this experience. But she has Minnie and two other little teeny tiny dogs. And I would not be surprised if she at some point cloned Minnie, who.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Loves her, loves her so much because she doesn't. And listen, Paris Hilton cloned her dog. And as we know, Barbra Streisand. And Barbra Streisand wrote a very chilling paragraph in her 900 page book about how, like, turns out their souls aren't the same.

[Sarah Wendell]

Huh?

[Chelsea Devantez]

And you can tell she's, like, a bit sad about it. And it's like, yeah, I'm surprised you didn't know that. And I think Danielle Steele wouldn't care. She'd be like, well, I don't know. She's. Here's my personality.

[Sarah Wendell]

Does the sweater fit? Then it's fine.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah. Yeah, Exactly. Okay, Sarah, it is time to do the book dill test. Okay, we're going to answer all three questions. First question, was the author vulnerable in the sharing of her truth?

[Sarah Wendell]

No. But she did share her Truth about a lot of vulnerable dogs.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Well said. And I'm going to say no. But some accidents slipped through, much like the accidents all over her house.

[Sarah Wendell]

Yeah. There were moments where I felt like I had been married since I was 17. I was having children. There were things where she talked about, with just four words, something that was clearly devastating, and she's like, well, moving right along. So there were, like, little peaks of things that truly must have harmed her deeply. But we don't know what those are.

[Chelsea Devantez]

We don't know what those are.

[Sarah Wendell]

Yeah, we just write about vulnerable dogs like they are accessories.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Okay, second question. Was it entertaining to read?

[Sarah Wendell]

I will say yes, because there were several parts where my eyebrows were in my hairline because I could not believe.

[Chelsea Devantez]

What I was reading.

[Sarah Wendell]

And I was also. While I was reading it, I think you were also reading it at the same time because you were posting on Instagram. And I'm like, I wonder where your eyebrows are. Up in your hairline, too. Because this was blowing my mind at some points.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, it was natural Botox. Those eyebrows got an arch. This was really when I got it. And there was a picture of a dog on the COVID I said, I'm not gonna make it. I'm not gonna make it through one paragraph. And I raced through this book because among the boring details were crimes, and those were really fun to get to.

[Sarah Wendell]

And one thing about Danielle Steele's books that have, like, the fictional novels that have in common with this memoir is there is a very, very soapy, dishy element to her writing these. She almost always writes about very dramatic, very soapy, very, very over the top things that are happening. Like, I was best friends with all four princesses in the Russian Rev. Here's what happened to my life. There's an element of really dishy, sort of not salacious, but fascinating content that shares between her fiction and this book. So I raced through it too. I could not stop reading this. And, like, I have so many papers in there. I have so many stole post it notes from My husband was like, these are mine. Now I need more.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I'm making notes on the dog memoir.

[Sarah Wendell]

I needed to write things down to get them out of my head.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Okay, final question. Did this book elevate your life in any way? Mm.

[Sarah Wendell]

Okay. In one very particular instance, there's a moment when I was reading about how, you know, happy she was to have Minnie and how this is this perfect relationship, and she leaves her Brussels phone in the San Francisco house, and she's got dogs parked all over the world. But this is the one who travels with her. And I looked over at my very old 16 year old spaniel. His name is Buzz. I call him Buzz the Anxious. He is blind. He doesn't see very well, he doesn't hear very well. He is a very old man. And he was sacked out snoring on a chair while I was reading. And I thought, I love my dog so much. And I appreciated being reminded that a relationship with a dog can be a very special thing. And it is short. It is very short. And I appreciated that one message, like, you don't have dogs for a long time and you have to appreciate them while you have them in your life because they are not cockatoos. They will not last 70 years. That part did elevate me for a moment. Overall, not so much.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Yeah, absolutely. I think, yes, it elevated my life because I'm really deeply in love and obsessed with my dogs. I really love that. Even though both times our life was not set up to bring a dog in, that we did anyway and made it work. And I, I'm obsessed with them and I make Instagram stories about them sometimes. And I'm often worried that I have just destroyed my personality, that I just have no personality left and I'm a loser. And after reading this book, I said, you know what, I actually have a. A long ways to go and I'm fine.

[Sarah Wendell]

You have a very balanced personality compared to the person we read about in this book.

[Chelsea Devantez]

It sounds like I'm actually amazing and I could go way harder. And that's. That brought me personal joy and leeway. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on. Please again tell people where they can find your podcast, listen to your podcast, follow you on socials. Like I said, I'm going to post the Joanna episode because I think it's just so good. But you have over 600 episodes. You are the Danielle Steel of podcasting.

[Sarah Wendell]

I'm gonna put that in my bio.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Please do. I will quote you.

[Sarah Wendell]

I'm going to write that down. Official blurb, baby. Danielle Steele podcasting. All right. Awesome. Yeah, that was great. You can find me and my podcast at SmartPodcast TrashyBooks, wherever you get your tasty shows. I'm also at Smart Bitches Trashy Books, which just celebrated its 20th year. And it is essentially a blog about romance novels. We review, we discuss. We have a paywall community where we go deep into what romance is doing. Romance is incredibly reflective as a genre about what is happening in society because it is about relationships. To quote Nora Roberts, It's a hat trick of easy targets. It is relationships, emotions and sex. And those are very fundamental issues because romance is fundamentally about being loved and finding love and feeling love. So I am not running out of things to talk about with romance. So I have a 20 year old web blog and we are still there going every single day. Plus, if you like ebooks and you like romance, we post sales every day, so come hang out.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Just incredible. I know our audience is gonna love you. Unless they're already like, yeah, obviously I'm a huge fan and I'm sure they are.

[Sarah Wendell]

So, Sarah, on Instagram I am Martbitches. And on Bluesky I'm Martbitches so you can find me everywhere.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I love that. Thank you so much for coming on. You were such a delight. Never would have found myself in the dog book if it weren't for you. So you did a true service.

[Sarah Wendell]

Thank you. And if you ever want to go back and read the Mary Burchell autobiography about saving people During World War II, this is one of my favorite, favorite, favorite biographies ever.

[Chelsea Devantez]

Really? And is it a memoir or a biography?

[Sarah Wendell]

Excuse me? It is an autobiography. It is a memoir. Mary Burchell wrote over 112 romance novels and used the funds from her romance novels to fool Nazi border guards and rescued probably over a hundred people from the holocaust by pretending with her sister to be daffy silly opera ladies. Oh, she was doing covert espionage that she and her sister just made up. She's one of my favorite, favorite, favorite memoirs I've ever read.

[Chelsea Devantez]

I feel like we must cover this. Feels like maybe some inspirational activism for right now. And listen, please weigh in on the Patreon if you've read this book. If you want to hear this book, get the comments in.

[Sarah Wendell]

Yes, it's called Safe Passage. Then it was published again as the Bravest Voices. Originally published in 1950 as we followed our stars. But Mary Burchell and her sister, unmitigated badasses. God, I love it.

[Chelsea Devantez]

A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro FM where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code Trash. That's right, trash T R A2 audiobooks for the price of one. @ Libro FM, and if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.