Dorinda Medley’s Memoir Make It Nice and Traitors Hot Takes

Summary

GLAMOROUS TRASH: A CELEBRITY MEMOIR PODCAST
Episode: Dorinda Medley’s Memoir Make It Nice and Traitors Hot Takes
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Rachel Friedland
Release Date: February 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Glamorous Trash dives into the memoir Make It Nice by Dorinda Medley, famed Real Housewife of New York and current contestant on The Traitors. Host Chelsea Devantez and guest Rachel Friedland (comedian, writer, host of the podcast Minor League tv) serve candid takes on both Dorinda’s underwhelming reality TV turn and her equally lackluster memoir. Armed with sharp humor and deep Housewives knowledge, they dissect Medley’s narrative, class aspirations, social climbing, and her memoir’s many, many missed opportunities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Traitors (00:40 – 09:24)

• Disappointing Housewives on The Traitors: Both Dorinda and Lisa Rinna were expected to bring drama to the show but came across as lost and “underwhelming”
  • “Both of them really seemed pretty lost. Like, they just came to the castle and they were like, I guess I'm having a bagel each morning and then just kind of going home.” (Chelsea, 03:20)
• Dorinda’s Editing and Performance: Rachel suggests Dorinda likely got edited out even when she may have tried to bring something, noting a lack of signature flair.
• Reality TV Dynamics: Rachel notes the challenge for non-competition reality stars appearing on strategic gameplay shows like The Traitors, highlighting how Dorinda didn’t adapt and Ron Funches dropped his sweet-comedian persona:
  • “Ron wasn’t being sweet or funny... Where’s the one-liners? Where’s what you're known for?” (Chelsea, 07:29)

Dorinda’s Memoir: Make It Nice (11:31 – 62:26)

Initial Impressions & Structure (11:31 – 12:52)

• The memoir is characterized as “Wikipedia in first person”—a flat, tell-don’t-show style that leaves critical gaps in storytelling.
  • “I feel like I am reading the Wikipedia of her life, but it’s in first person.” (Chelsea, 12:03)
• Rachel laments the absence of emotional detail and connective storytelling:
  • “Every paragraph I was like, huh? Explain. I felt like English teacher 5th grade class being like, show, don't tell.” (Rachel, 11:39)

Early Life & Family Framing (12:52 – 15:43)

• Dorinda frames her upbringing as modest, but reality and her anecdotes reveal upper-middle-class comfort (e.g. college scholarships, moving home as safety net).
• Notable vulnerable moment regarding perfectionism and her eating disorder, but even this is handled abruptly and without genuine depth:
  • “I didn’t know you could be shouted out of an eating disorder. Would have loved someone to yell me out of it.” (Chelsea, 15:10)

Social Climbing & Marriages (16:07 – 35:44)

• First Husband (Ralph, the Banker):

  • Dorinda’s move into the upper class is recounted via marriage; little detail about the emotional journey or social navigation.
  • The story of moving to Hong Kong reads as culturally insensitive and lacking self-reflection. She engages little with the culture despite her professed adventurousness:
    • “It was so sad to know how much she missed out on and the amount of options she had. Like, she had a maid who was trying to brush her hair... you couldn’t have said like, hey, how about instead of that, teach me a couple phrases?” (Chelsea, 25:57)
  • A repeated disconnect between her stated hardships and observable privilege.

• Transition to Second Husband (Richard, Banker/Consultant):

  • Real estate work leads to meeting Richard, law of proximity meets elite social circles; again, little romantic or personal insight, mostly logistics.
  • The wedding is themed around live fish swimming in suspended glass bowls, leading to memorable incredulity:
    • “This is the most hideous thing I’ve ever heard. And what happened to the fish?” (Chelsea, 43:57)
    • “Why won’t she say chocolate?... Peanut butter isn’t the opposite of vanilla!” (Chelsea/Rachel, 58:08)

Life, Death, & Aftermath (49:13 – 56:58)

• Richard’s illness and death finally bring some emotional heft. There are moving moments around grief, caretaking, and supernatural connections (psychic communication, feeling his presence).
  • “I think she captured her feelings and the emotions in the room really well... those were the two parts of this book that I will walk away remembering.” (Rachel, 51:44)
• The privilege is again left glaring in details like “taking two helicopters” for family travel.
  • “Every Friday you took two helicopters, okay. Referring to death as helicopter in the sky from now on.” (Chelsea, 56:56)

Female Friendships & Social Network (36:07 – 37:12)

• Chelsea and Rachel praise Dorinda’s consistent acknowledgment of the value and impact of female friendships throughout her life.

Housewives & Bluestone Manor Era (59:01 – 62:26)

• Dorinda’s account of her Real Housewives years is disappointingly surface-level, with no juicy behind-the-scenes stories or introspection.

  • “You were supposed to drop some tea. You are supposed to share something the viewers would have interest in... She shares literally nothing, and ends the book.” (Chelsea, 59:17)

• Both slam the overall lack of self-awareness, actionable advice, or practical insights in a book titled Make It Nice, with Rachel noting the failure to even provide a signature recipe.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Memoir’s Style
  “Is it her journal entry? Is it letter to a friend or, like, acquaintance?”
  (Rachel, 12:03)

• On Social Class Perceptions
  “If you can move home, then... your family's not struggling. If you have a plan B, your family's fine.”
  (Chelsea, 13:48)

• On Cultural Blunders
  “This will be the first of many times Dorinda says something culturally rude. Rude and ignorant.”
  (Chelsea, 20:53)

• On Live Fish Wedding Decor
  “This is the most hideous thing I've ever heard. And what happened to the fish?”
  (Chelsea, 43:57)

• On Emotional Depth
  “I think at one point I was like, okay, so you're in a polycule and you just won't call it that.”
  (Rachel, 35:44)

• On Housewife Years in the Book
  “All she does is recap her greatest moments... She shares literally nothing, and ends the book. Well, I guess it’s goodbye for now. I hope you have enjoyed reading this book. I did not.”
  (Chelsea, 59:01)

• On Takeaways
  “You can also know they also don't know about traveling or having a nice wedding. That's how I'll end it.”
  (Chelsea, 62:27)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:40] – Show Intro, Dorinda on The Traitors
• [03:20] – Housewives on The Traitors: Expectations vs. Reality
• [11:31] – Initial Impressions of Dorinda’s Memoir
• [12:03] – “Wikipedia in First Person”: Memoir Critique
• [15:03] – Early Vulnerability: Eating Disorder and Pressure
• [20:53] – Meeting Ralph: Social Climbing and Cultural Cluelessness
• [25:57] – Culture Shock in Hong Kong
• [43:57] – Fish Wedding: The Over-the-Top Decor
• [49:13] – Bluestone Manor and Design Tastes
• [51:44] – Richard’s Illness and Death: Genuine Emotional Moments
• [56:56] – Helicopter Anecdote: Peak Wealth Disconnection
• [59:01] – Housewives Years: A Recap With No Tea
• [62:00] – Booktool Test: Final Verdict on the Memoir

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Final Takeaways & Booktool Test (62:00 – End)

Chelsea and Rachel administer their three-question "booktool test":

1. Was the author vulnerable and the sharing of her truth?
   No.
2. Was it entertaining to read?
   No.
3. Did it elevate your life in any way?
   No (except as a reminder: don’t envy the wealthy—rich people can make things just as tacky as anyone else).

Chelsea concludes:

"Never trust rich people. Rich people suck just as much as everyone. This bitch had a fish wedding with billions of dollars." (Chelsea, 62:27)

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Further Listening

Rachel plugs her podcast Minor League tv (Season 1 deep-dives into Summer House, next season covers Love Island UK), and encourages listeners to follow her for comedy and more reality TV commentary.

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This episode delivers a hilarious, sometimes biting analysis of Dorinda Medley’s Make It Nice—a “memoir” that’s more recitation than revelation, as well as a wry meditation on aspiration, privilege, reality TV personas, and how “making it nice” isn’t always possible, even with unlimited resources.

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For those who haven’t listened: Expect sharp wit, genuine Housewives expertise, and a thorough roasting of celebrity memoir mediocrity—plus some laughs at the surreal excesses of the truly, truly rich.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs, and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host, Chelsea Devontes. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff, too. And today we are book clubbing. Make It Nice, the memoir of reality star Dorinda Medley. You know Dorinda as a cast member of the Real Housewives of New York for six seasons, from 2015 to 2020 until she was famously put on pause. She's also competing in the current season of the Traitors, which airs its finale next week. So we're going to talk a little bit about the Traitors up top, and then we're going to go in to the book, and I want to give you a trigger warning for talk about disordered eating and weight, and a warning that this book was terrible, but it had 10% real fun stuff. So this is going to be a fun episode where we just cover that hot 10%. Now let's dive in.

[C]

Don't come here. Extend a hand to me. Hi, Dorinda. How you doing? Everything, you know, you. I'll tell you how I'm doing. Not well, bitch. Okay.

[B]

My guest today is Rachel Friedland. Rachel is a comedian and writer. She recently released her first comedy album, Certified Delight, and currently hosts a podcast, somewhat brand new, called Minor League tv, a reality TV playback podcast that rewinds and dissects iconic moments from your favorite reality shows. So we thought she would be the perfect guest for this book. Have you made your morning nice today? Have you made it nice?

[C]

I have a coffee. I don't have a handwritten menu about my coffee, but I do have a coffee.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So then I would say, Dorinda would say, you did not make it nice.

[C]

I made it okay.

[B]

You made it okay. Understandable. Listen, I. I like Durinda. I think she was so compelling when she was put on pause at Real Housewives I said that was correct. I just remember seeing an episode where she's like, I'm gonna take a nap. And that was the storyline. And I thought, yeah, it's best. She's put on pause now. She came back onto the Traders. And you've been watching the Traders?

[C]

Yes, I've been watching the Traders. This is my first time. I've watched, like, the first season I've watched of the Traitors.

[B]

Oh, wow. Okay. What are you thinking?

[C]

I have a handful of thoughts. I'm not a, like, competition reality person. Typically. I'll watch, like, a Top Chef or something. And I don't count Love island as competition. Just.

[B]

You believe it's true love they're doing over there on that island?

[C]

No, I just. I'm like, monogamy as gameplay is crazy, but that's fine. So, yeah, it's my first season watching and seeing her. This season has not really been a thing. We've not seen much of her.

[B]

It is unbelievably underwhelming on all fronts. And. And listen, Lisa Rinna also has a memoir. It's Coming. Lisa Rinna, also on the Traitors. Both of them, exceptionally underwhelming performances on the Traitors. Like, Housewives have this air about them of like, don't mess with housewives. Housewives will throw a table. And it's. Both of them really seemed pretty lost. Like, they just came to the castle and they were like, I guess I'm having a bagel each morning and then just kind of going home. And it's like, no, you were supposed to bring some drama. And I thought Dorinda was pretty kind of brought.

[C]

I think she brought nothing. And I think she's also getting edited out for whatever she did bring because I don't think she brought something nice.

[B]

Yeah, she did not make it nice. Which, if you're unfamiliar with Dorinda, that's. That's what the book is called. That's kind of one of her famous little fun phrases on the Housewives. So to talk a little bit of backstory before getting into the book, because the book's gonna take us about five minutes to get through. Dorinda went on an episode of the Traitors, immediately was sent home. They then brought her back. They're like, try again, bitch. Which is hilarious question from me, because.

[C]

Watching it, I was like, did she beg to come back? Because in my understanding, when she was put on pause, obviously earth shattering to her.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So for her to get booted off the first episode of the last season and then to come back. I was like, man, is she really trying to get back in Andy Cohen's good graces to be like, I can still make tv, honey. You know?

[B]

Oh, a thousand percent. I don't know what went on behind the scenes, but even if she was begging, there must have been a ton of producers saying, wait, wait, wait, Dorinda is gonna deliver. We've gotta try. Like, and knowing what I know of Dorinda, I am a Housewives fan. I expected so much more. And she just didn't bring it this time either. And then Jill Zarin was supposed to be on the upcoming E series the Golden Life, which is reuniting a few of the OG Roni cast members, including Sonia Morgan, Luann, Ramona Singer. And Jill, about a week ago, was fired from this series after posting online that there was, quote, literally no white people in Bad Bunny's halftime show, and she didn't think it was, quote, appropriate to have it in Spanish. And they said, you're fired, Dorinda's hired. Dorinda gets to be like, I'm not on pause anymore. I told you, bitches. And Dorinda's back. However, sounds like had Jill not been the dumbest, most racist person alive because there were white people in the halftime performance, not that it fudgeing matters. There weren't. Shut up. That Dorinda maybe wouldn't be coming back.

[C]

I wonder how Dorinda feels about that being like, thank you, your runner up to our other racist lady that decided to open her mouth.

[B]

Yeah, well, okay, so then the other thing with traitors, again, we're going to get into the book is that on screen, Ron Funches was shown to actually be pretty rude to Dorinda, where he was like, I don't give a fuck about you or your life. I'm here to play a game. Get away from me. I hate you.

[C]

I kind of loved him saying that, even though it came out of nowhere.

[B]

Okay, so tell me more. More. Tell me more.

[C]

I just think because I see Ron Funches as, like, what a nice, sweet man. And then for him to come in with some attitude, I was like, let him have it, Ron. And I kind of felt like. I think my frustration with the show was, like, early episodes, everyone just needs to pick someone to be a traitor based on vibes. And everyone was gunning for Ron for whatever reason. So I kind of liked him being like, I have to stand up for myself, you know, defend. Defend my honor as a faithful.

[B]

Well, see, on camera, you had seen Dorinda being like, I'm asking about your family. I'm trying to be nice to you. I've been so rude to me. Now, Ron has since come out and said, actually she was very rude to me off camera or like in the vans when they were traveling. Ron is known as a sweet teddy bear. But I do have something to say about Dorinda and Ron, which is that both of them went on to the traitor, seemingly, like, I am here to play like a really cool game. And I wanted to shout at both of them. So you're actually on TV and neither of you are doing the thing you're known for. Ron wasn't being sweet or funny. He wasn't. He was like, I am here to fudgeing rock the traitor's roundtable and present evidence. And I was like, Ron, if no one has ever seen you before, they would never know you're a comedian. Like, where's the one liners? Where's the quips? Where's what you're known for?

[C]

He was too in his head, I think he was trying to be like, how do I play this game? I'm so confused.

[B]

To Dorinda, I would say, please start playing the game. Yeah, please start doing something. And she relates it.

[C]

It's very fascinating to watch everyone because they do bring in people who are like on Survivor and who do actual, like social strategy, actual, like gameplay. And obviously that's why Rob is doing so well, because he can, I don't know, tap in. But I was like, oh, it's too much for me as a first time viewer to be like, guys, I'm a little frustrated because half of you are doing it good and the other half of you are are more of being like, if I lie about not knowing anyone, that's my strategy. Huh.

[B]

I do think everyone in the castle reacted pretty tough to Ron. Anyways, I just want to say, but Lisa, big disappointment. That being said, not more disappointing than this book from Dorinda Medley. Okay, we're going to take a quick break right now and we'll be right back. It has been five months with my Quint Ultra stretch Pont super wide leg pants. Happy anniversary to us, I guess. No, it's been five months with my favorite pants and they haven't pilled or fallen apart. When I wash them, they're still my favorites. They were less than 50 bucks each. I now have three pairs, one in every color. So when my new foster fail dog happened to eat a hole in my bedding comforter, I turned to Quince to replace it. So don't worry she's getting dog training. And then as for the comforter, I was like, okay, Quince makes good pants. Let's see if they can make a good bedding set. So I ordered their bamboo duvet cover.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

I was actually reading it and just going, I wonder what Chelsea's gonna say about this because I was like, every paragraph I was like, huh?

[B]

What?

[C]

Explain. I felt like English teacher 5th grade class being like, show, don't tell.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I actually want to issue an apology to Erika Jayne's memoir and be like, sorry. I guess, I guess your memoir was phenomenal in the canon of housewives because this, I wrote this down Constantly. I said, I feel like I am reading the Wikipedia of her life, but it's in first person.

[C]

That's a great way to put it. I kept being like, is it her journal entry? Is it letter to a friend or, like, acquaintance?

[B]

I felt like it was Wikipedia because it was just like, I was born and then I got married. And it was like, yes. Yeah, I guess technically, that is what happened. So it begins. And Dorinda, I would say, from her point of view, is, like, on the soft side of middle class. I bet she was on the soft side of upper middle class.

[C]

I was gonna say soft is putting it softly.

[B]

Yeah, she. Well, she really is just like, we're oak. She didn't say working class, but it was very much like a family on a budget. But then she would give examples like, they wouldn't pay for me to go to Boston College. I had to take a scholarship. And it's like, okay, so this isn't. I don't know. You're not poor.

[C]

That's. But in her mind, she's like a family that has to save money. We might as well have been poor. Like, it.

[B]

Yes. And then I would say, all of it boring. Every moment of childhood, extremely boring. Until she gets to the part where she's like, I'm off to college. And I started, like, sewing my own clothes or putting your own clothes together. Do we think she was stitching again? There's no details. So I was trying to figure out.

[C]

Oh, there were so many times that she would write something about, like, and this was a really hard time. And I would go, why was it a hard time? There were no examples of anything she did to be like, I really struggled, but I saved money. And I. She talked about backpacking through Europe at one point, and I was like, well, how'd you do that, lady? Yeah, you're telling us about how you, like, ran out of money twice in the city and had to move home, but then somehow you backpacked through Europe.

[B]

I know. And also, hey, newsflash. And I love it. I love it. Everyone should have it. But if you can move home.

[C]

Then.

[B]

Your family's not strong. If you have a plan B. Yep, your family's fine. And I. And everyone should have a plan B. But yes. And she went to the Berkshire School, which is also on name alone. I'm like, sounds. Sounds fancy. I will say there's one page in the childhood section that I thought was quite lovely and vulnerable. She said she wanted to be perfect. She wanted to be great in life. She wanted to do something amazing. And she said, I wanted to become successful, but there was a lot of doubt. I feared I wouldn't make it. Da, da, da, da da. It was no longer the driving force that was pulling my life forward. I was being dragged backwards by my unrealistic expectations of myself. Quote, I need to do my best, became I am not enough and will never be enough. There will always be someone prettier, smarter, or skinnier. So the dream of being the best went from a dream to a nightmare. A journey that was exhausting and unhealthy. As a consequence of all the pressure I put on myself, I developed an eating disorder. And so she talks about the drive to succeed and the fear that you wouldn't becoming a negative force versus a driving force. But then she says one night her mom stands up at the dinner table and says, you better snap out of it, Dorinda, or you're going to squander everything you've worked for. You'll either end up in the hospital or I will put you there if I have to. And then she was like, yep. And then I got over my eating disorder.

[C]

Listen. And just like that, the true. I'm like, the boomer mentality of just being like, you're right. I have no feelings. Next.

[B]

I didn't know you could be shouted out of a eating disorder. Would have loved someone to yell me out of it.

[C]

I guess that might be a Polish family special, actually.

[B]

Yeah, I, you know, I just. It's one of those things where you're like, oh, a lot more went into this that we're just not going to.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Hear about in the book.

[C]

But I love also that. Up top in the book. She's like, and don't worry, I'm going to tell you everything. Which I never like in a memoir where they're like. And more on that later. And you're like, well, I. I wasn't worried that you weren't going to share until now.

[B]

Until I finished the book.

[C]

Yeah. And there was nothing in it.

[B]

There was nothing in it. Then immediately she's like, I moved to New York City and I marry Ralph. And the moment she marries Ralph, if you know the show or you can actually read Wikipedia, you realize she marries into the 1%. She marries into financial banker. You're not even going to work anymore. Your job is literally to just be the wife.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I love that that was her ascension. And she's like, but I still worked really hard being a wife. And you're like, okay, I'm sure I'm sure that was pretty crazy.

[B]

But this is a huge pivot. This is how she becomes Dorinda society woman. Dorinda rich lady. Dorinda woman of leisure. I'm like, what? Like, were you on the town being like, where are the Richies? Like where are the men's with money? I'm looking for men in suits. Were you trying to live a cool fashion life and just happen to fall.

[C]

In love with a.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

And this is of course not long after she's like, and don't worry, I worked. I feel like it was a lot of convincing us of being like. And I've been in the workforce before, right? I had a resume once.

[B]

She definitely had a job. She was a buyer at Macy's. I chill love it. And then Liz Claiborne, she was like. And then one day I got a bonus from Liz Claiborne. And I was on top of the world that I went to this bar. And I said, everybody, I just got a bonus. Drinks on me for the entire bar. Which again, I want more details because she sounds fun, man, that's a fun time.

[C]

I wish I was at that bar.

[B]

Wish I was at that bar. But that's the only detail we get. Then she says, I check my bank account balance. I realize I have zero dollars. I call my family. I'm like, hey, I messed up. Can I move home? And I said, did they fire you.

[C]

Because you still had a job at.

[B]

Liz Claybourne just cause you blew your bonus, why are you moving home? She quit the job and moved home.

[C]

She said, I gotta start over again. Chelsea, like you just said, when you have a backup plan, why not just go rely on that? I'm sure she was like, well, that's humiliating. So my only choice is to leave and try to reinvent myself.

[B]

It's humiliating. I blew my bonus. I guess I'll quit my job and move home the next day, right?

[C]

And go back to wait for saying also. Which is totally fine. But she was seemed so happy in New York doing, you know, doing her little lifestyle there. I do also just want to add one thing because there's so much of. Dorinda is so pleased with her like class ascension that she really is willing to let you know when she looks down on others. And it is fascinating when she's living in New York, she does talk about. And I think she's trying to be like, see, I'm nice. She like helps an old lady get groceries and stuff. She's like, this old lady really has no one. And then at the end she's like, her apartment was filthy. She lives a lonely life. I don't want to end up like that. That looks terrible. If you're a woman who wants to, like, use your platform and hates injustice, there was a bigger impact you could have made there. Don't write about it like this.

[B]

Yeah, I really have eyes on the ghostwriter and editor and in the very back of the book, because all. All the best parts are always in the acknowledgments. She thinks her agent, her book agent, she know it was a long road, but we did it. And I said, if you were shopping this manuscript, I bet it was a long road. You. This is nothing. This is. This book is also being written after she is let go from the housewives. So she needs a comeback. She needs a book that comes out swinging like a baseball bat. And as we'll continue to see, it is not that. Here's a fun story, though. So she was doing this sales job for Liz Claiborne. And the other cool part of this story is that she showed up for the job interview and someone was hired. And so they sent everyone home. And so then she just kept showing up every single day and was like, I'm here to interview. And one day the woman was like, fine. And she was like, I'll do anything for the job. And she was like, okay, you're hired. And then it meant that once she was hired by that manager, beyond doing the sales part of the sales job for Liz Claiborne, her duty was to brush and braid her manager's hair. She said in the mornings, while she did her makeup, I would brush her hair and braid it. Back then, this was totally acceptable thing to ask an underling to do. I also somehow had to walk her dog before work. And sometimes on Saturday mornings, she'd call and ask me to do her grocery shopping. And I used to babysit her kids for free. I mean, that was brutal. Brutal treatment of your sales associate. Anyways, I think maybe that's why when she blows her bonus, she just quits and moves home. But unclear or. Yeah.

[C]

Or say that. Say, actually, I didn't want to do that kind of work. It sounds bad, Dorinda. Like that. I don't think it's wrong to be like, actually not the kind of job I want to do. That's okay.

[B]

And here's the thing. We know it wasn't because she's like. Like, I'm getting married. I'm getting out of here. Does she say that in the book? No, but she meets this man Ralph at a wedding. Now, she said, I knew the bride, he knew the groom. After Ralph spoke to me for the first time, I said, oh, my God, you have a real British accent. No, he said, it's a Scottish accent. I was mesmerized and impressed by Ralph's accent. Now, this will be the first of many times Dorinda says something culturally rude. Rude and ignorant.

[C]

In the margin I wrote, that is so American.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my God, A real British man. It's Scottish. And then he said, you know, go on a date with me. So Ralph loved it.

[C]

It was not that offensive to him. God bless. But. And like, listen, I wrote this down. This is coming from a person who will slip into a British accent often. Am I proud of that?

[B]

Okay, you're doing. You're doing a Britney Spears in your life. You're just goes in and out, just.

[C]

A little, a touch here and there.

[B]

Where do you think that comes from? Give us a little insight because Madonna's doing it too.

[C]

Not in day to day speak, but every now and again. If I'm talking about God, the only word that's coming to mind is the word body. You know, I'm talking about bodies a lot. Why not? And I'll go, oh, yeah, you know, you gotta move your body. And it's just that now, are you.

[B]

A Love Island UK Girly?

[C]

Oh, 100%, yeah.

[B]

100%. This happens to all of you. All of you come out and you're like, he's fit. He's right. Fit.

[C]

Yeah. Just a little something. It doesn't help that I do have a British friend who will egg me on. And so I blame him. But it is so funny to watch her write this. And you're like, I'd be actually so embarrassed to be in front of you in front of a British person. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Well, then she said, next to Ralph, I felt like a lady. I remember standing there under this very tall man thinking, this is someone I could really sink my teeth into. By the way, I was still wearing braces when we met. I gotta say, love her for those three sentences. One, she's fallen under the old, he's tall. I've got a boner for him. Him, taller, me, baby, I want to date him. Secondly, this bitch went in swinging with braces. You know what? Love that for you, Dorinda.

[C]

Yeah. He said, as a banker, he went investment. She's gonna get those things taken off. We're gonna look great together. That's, you know, he said, that's gonna pay off. That's Gonna pay off. And good for both of them.

[B]

Good for both of them. There's one fun story from their date that he picks her up in a town car that has a. A phone in it. And she's like, oh, my God, the wealth. And she was like, I thought that was so cool.

[C]

I mean, how would you not slip off the seat in the 80s phone in the car? You know what I mean? You're like, oh, my God.

[B]

80S phone in the car.

[C]

Might as well be a private jet.

[B]

Yeah, you're right. I'd be like, annie's tall. I guess I'm done here. I had three qualities. Have a car. Car has phone you tall. So then she said, Ralph took me to a beautiful dinner. And afterwards I took him to an Irish bar that I liked. The band started playing the Unicorn by the Irish Rovers, which goes. Green alligators and long necked geese. Some Humpty Dumpty back camels and some chimpanzees. If you don't know this song, let's pause here. Do you know this song?

[C]

Oh, no. Are you familiar with the hint?

[B]

No, I'm not familiar. Maybe Christina can play it in the episode Green alligators and long neck geese. Some Humpty bag hammers and some. But she said there's a famous dance that goes along with it. Well, I got up on the bar and started dancing. And he thought, this is the type of person I need in my life. Again. She has little moments where you're like, this is why you got a book deal, is why you're on the Housewives. You're a very fun. While being like, kind of grounded and put together. Like, she's got a cool personality. It's just not often in the book.

[C]

Right? Yeah. Yes. A. I want to be at the bar when she's buying everyone shots. I also want to be at the bar when she's dancing on the table.

[B]

I'd love to see that dance. Sounds very. She said. I was struck at how at ease Ralph's friends seemed and how nobody looked tired. When you have money, you weren't anxious all the time. You weren't scared. You slept more soundly and had fewer wrinkles. Lol, bitch. You fucking thing. And then what's so funny about this is that no less than two paragraphs later, she writes the sentence, with Ralph, it wasn't a passionate love affair, it was true partnership. Another way to say, me lovey money.

[C]

Me love money.

[B]

Ralph had money.

[C]

Yeah, Mary money. I love an arrangement. I put 90 day fiance effect where it's like, oh, yeah, we gotta play roles. Happy to step into that.

[B]

Happy to. And speaking of 90 Day Fiance Ralph gets transferred to Hong Kong for his job. And she's like a moving to Hong Kong family. Her mom cries, they get engaged, they move to Hong Kong. And then she pretty much just describes like, I didn't speak the language and so I hated it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I get. Cultural clashes are hard and moving to a new country is hard also. You gotta go out more than one day. And it does sound like she went out of the house one day, had a tough time getting around, went right back in that mansion and never left.

[C]

Left in that mansion. And let's talk about the place you got hooked up in Hong Kong. Lady, you are in the nicest of the nice parts. Your husband, fiance works for Exxon. I'm like, you're doing oil baron shit abroad and you're like, I can't be around this many Chinese. It was so I really. I wrote, this is fucked up.

[B]

Yeah. It was so sad. It was sad to know how much she missed out on and the amount of options she had. Like, she had a maid who was trying to brush her hair. So that's the level of wealth she's now at. She couldn't have said, like, hey, how about instead of that, teach me a couple phrases, let's go back to town, let's do something. Yeah.

[C]

Let's go to the market, let's walk outside. And for someone who has painted herself as someone who, like, loves an adventure, has traveled abroad before, it's not like this part is foreign to you.

[B]

I know, but backpacking in Europe is a real different kind of abroad. I have friends. He wrote a song.

[C]

Song.

[B]

A million years ago in comedy, Tim Dunn and Sarah Shockey. And it was a song about how, like, I want to go abroad, but only to the white countries. You know what I mean? So they're like, I've been abroad. But like, you really did only go to, like the parts of Europe that. Yes. Closest to America. And this feels like that.

[C]

Yes. And I'm sure that you've seen tons of photos of. Yeah. I think I just didn't have as much empathy for her because I'm like, again, a maid is brushing your hair. Just go out. Just try it.

[B]

Oh, I had no empathy for her. I said, this is crazy. Like the. And here's the thing. Thing. Maybe you were a total ignorant 26 year old in Hong Kong who didn't know how to handle yourself. You are writing this more than 25 years later. Like, Hong Kong Sucked. You're like, okay. So then she cries every day and begs Ralph to transfer. So Ralph transfers to London, and then this is how she writes about London. London exceeded my expectations, and I instantly fell in love with the city. People dressed up up. People valued tradition. Everyone was just so glamorous. They dazzled effortlessly. They made the ordinary feel luxurious. London was like a white cashmere blanket that is used every day but never gets stained or pills. I said, certainly a part of London could be that for you. Did you ever go around London? No. Listen, Small, small tangent. My husband. Husband's film got into the London Film Festival. So we went for, like, a quick three days, and it started to become a thing with us where anytime we were interacting with anyone, like, at the hotel or like an Uber driver at the restaurant, anything, we were just like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is so lovely. Like, how do you love London? Something like that. And no joke, six different people were like, I hate it here.

[C]

I'm dying.

[B]

I've never seen the sun. The financial collapse is upon me. I live an hour from the city and have a nice day, dumbasses. And we were like, wow. And you know what? That is like something you could say in LA or New York City in a city that's, like, really hard for anyone who is working class. And so I know for anyone listening in London, there's just so much diversity. There's so many great parts of it. It's just funny that Dorinda was like, everyone is from a castle in London, and they dress up and you never get dirty. That's not my London accent. That is my Dorinda's London accent, which is spot on.

[C]

It also just highlights her being like. Like Hong Kong, gross and yucky. But London, with all the white people I could see in the white neighborhood I lived in, was pretty rad. It's just like, ma'.

[B]

Am. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back. All right. So I run around a lot. I do a lot. I'm kind of a night owl that has to wake up early, so I have the darkest circles under my eyes always. I have started putting castor oil underneath my eyes and sleeping with it every night and then on my eyelids. I have been using Thrive cosmetics, brilliant eye brightener, which is my favorite. It's just shimmery enough. It's like an eyeshadow highlighter stick made to brighten and open your eyes. And this combo is really. Guys, I gotta say, I think. I think it's crushing it. It looks radiant. I apply it to the inner corner of my eyes to look rested and effortless. But then I also just cover the lid. It just kind of gives your eyes an extra pop. The smallest things you do can have a big impact. And when you buy from Thrive Cosmetics, every purchase goes to a cause. The cause in cosmetics that they support, including domestic violence, which is a topic that is extremely close to my heart and my life. And I love that when I am making a small purchase, I know that it's still going to help a larger purpose. Thrive Cosmetics has given over 150 million in product and cash donations to 600 giving partners. And each purchase directly fuels real impact. So it is beauty with a purpose. Amplify your everyday go to thrivecosmetics.com glamorous for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C-A U S E M E T D I C S.com glamorous this episode.

[D]

Is brought to you by FX's Love Story. John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bassette join host Evan Ross Katz on the Official podcast for FX's new series Love Story. John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette. And go behind the scenes with cast and special guests featuring Sarah Pidgeon, Paul Anthony Kelly, Grace Gummer and Naomi Watts. FX's love story John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette, wherever you listen to podcasts.

[B]

Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation. So anyway, so she lives in London, which definitely is a huge part of her personality of like, I not only am I a woman of society, but like, I'm friends with people at Buckingham. I made a sweater for Princess Dye. She starts this cashmere sweater company that's not really a company. It's like a Tupperware party, but with cashmere sweaters.

[C]

Okay. I wrote MLM vibes because I was like, I've not heard of this and sorry, I did not do any extra research into it, but I was like, like, this doesn't feel great. It just feels like I'm a bored housewife and I'm going to start selling my cashmere sweaters.

[B]

Yeah. And she would customize them for fancy ladies.

[C]

Well, of course I did, like in this one part about going to London that she was in awe of how much shrimp cocktail there were at parties.

[B]

I did love that because it was.

[C]

Really sweet that she was like, that was such a, like, luxurious meal to have. And then here was just a bunch of shrimp all the time. And I was like, that is like kid at the candy store, like, like chocolate fountain moment.

[B]

And I was like a hundred percent. You're right. I did love that detail.

[C]

And I, I wish there were more of those of her to be like. And this is how much more my life ascended in these way, you know, like, what are the details besides like everyone dressed nice. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I also, I just wish there was more of a plot point between like this huge decision of marriage and this wild change. It's just kind of like I got married and the shrimp cocktail was there. Like, it's not written to be like my entire life changed.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, and also I feel like she has to be hiding. Either that she really wanted this and was manhunting or she was really taken surprise by this great love she had for Ralph. And so she enters this life, but it can't be that. It has to be. I wanted a rich man to change my life because she has her daughter Hannah. She has this great experience giving birth where it totally changes her and is just very enlightening as to her capacities to love. And the next page. In many ways, Ralph and I had already begun to grow apart. But there was something about Hannah's birth that trivialized any worry I had about our marriage. We just loved her presence. She was fertilizer that made our love grow wherever she was. Our love for Hannah bonded us forever. That was why we were truly able to raise her together. And then she's like, yeah, then my marriage just like kind of ended.

[C]

I wrote, don't do that, don't do that, don't. I'm like, lady, you can't encourage everyone to have a kid in order to be like, like, see, it did make the marriage work for at least, what.

[B]

At least six more years. Yeah, like, yeah, I know, I know. And because there's no like real romance in this story. It's like I danced, he loved it. He was tall, I loved it. We had a kid. It helped us stay together. And then she's like, over time we were living different lives and Ralph was working 15 hours a day. So she is extremely lonely and she's really building this independence with her friend group and all this stuff. But. But it does kind of sound like it was always a settle. It was always like, oh, we're nice friends. And so we married.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Versus like a passionate love affair, which is positive because when they divorce, they raise Hannah together. He continues to pay for her life. She's a stay at home mom, even post divorce.

[C]

That's I claim. You know what I mean? I Do think at a certain tax bracket, your marriage is an agreement. And I think that's a beautiful thing. And I'm very happy for her that she still just got to be a housewife. What was she gonna do? Go back to work, get a bonus and spend it all?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, it feels like reading Fourth Wing. Like I'm reading about dragons. And when I read about I got a divorce, and then he got me a house, an apartment, paid for me. Loves, love to pay child support, and we had a nice life. I'm like, whoa. Never seen that happen in real life. So, yeah, you're right. I love it for her. And really, she just gets to live her life, and then she moves back to America, and she says, says, looking back, there's a part of me that feels a little guilty because I didn't consult Ralph as much as I should have before I left. Lucky for me. Very soon after we moved, Ralph followed us. It was in New York where he met his now wife, whom he adores. So if you're reading this, Ralph, you're welcome. She loves his new wife. Something like that is so beautiful. Because ain't never gonna be me.

[C]

Oh, absolutely not gonna be me.

[B]

I respect how healthy you are, and it ain't never gonna be me.

[C]

Children of a Toxic Divorce Rise up. This book is not free. This book is not for you. This will piss you off so much. It was very like. I think at one point I was like, okay, so you're in a polycule and you just won't call it that.

[B]

Oh, I love that. I wish she was like, and now we're in a polycule. That'd be sick.

[C]

In a way, financially, she was.

[B]

She wasn't a financial polycule.

[C]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

One thing I do want to give her a lot of flowers for is that she is constantly, constantly calling out great female best friends. I mean, there's Ann, there's Caroline, there's. I lost track of it because I would circle it every time. She is great about having a cool female friend who helps her move or helps her come to America or takes her to parties or. She really is a girl's girl, which could be funny to say if you know her from Housewives, but from her memoir. Like, she has a army of women throughout her life that she keeps in.

[C]

Her life and worked hard to get them. Like, she describes being very persistent in her pursuit of female friendship, of being like, yes, yeah. And I inappropriately became friends with my husband's boss. Who cares? She's cool. I Want to?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I want a cool friend or part of the reason she and Ralph gets divorced because she has all these great friends and such a graceful life, and he's working 15 hours a day, and they just. They're not connected anymore.

[C]

Yeah. And I. Yeah, I loved her calling that out of, like, I had a good network, because, yes, everyone needs one.

[B]

Every. Everybody needs a community. Okay, so she's in New York now. Ralph's paying for everything. But at some point, she's like, dating is really annoying. So I stopped looking for men, and I started looking for a job. It was time to get back to work. But what would I do? Everybody guess. What do you think she's going to do? She worked in sales. She made sweaters. Princess Dye bought one. What's next? Dorinda becomes a real estate agent. But she says, like, one of my dearest friends, Sarah and I decided to go work for a boutique firm. Like, there's women where, like, you'll never hear from them again. But they're part of her journey, which I thought was fun. She becomes a real estate agent, and she sells a place to this very rich man who's much older than her, named Richard. And she says when he ends up renting a townhouse on 63rd between park and Madison, he was happy, she was happy, he was dating someone. They parted ways. Six months later, he called my office. Dorinda, I have Richard Medley on the phone. I answered the phone, unsure of what he wanted. Hi, Richard. How is it going? Well, very well, actually. So then she said, yes, I wanted to date Richard now that he was single. And she said, but he asked me to a party the next night. And I said, no, I have a daughter. If you want to ask a single mother out on a date, you really should ask her a week in advance so she can get a babysitter. How about three weeks from tomorrow? Very funny. I have to go. So she hangs up and she says, anyway, the following evening, I was at that party. And she said, all of a sudden, he tapped my shoulder. I turned around and saw Richard. I thought, oh, no, it was such a big party. I thought I might not run into him. He said, I see you got a babysitter for your daughter. He said, and she said, I told you I have a daughter, not that I didn't have a babysitter. We laughed hysterically. At some point, he said, are you available a week from today for a date this time? I said, yes. I said, oh, she read the rules. That dating book.

[C]

The rules oh, okay. Yes. I was, like, reading this in my head. I was like, okay, she has her rules that she's really abiding by.

[B]

But no, that's the book that's Never accepted. Date 24 hours in advance. But it is funny that he's like, would you like to go to this party with me tomorrow? She says, no, but she was already going.

[C]

I love it. I mean, dare I say iconic. Like, iconic. And I kind of.

[B]

Stuff from Dorinda, you love.

[C]

I respect her for being like, I need a babysitter. And like, yeah, why should he assume, like, like, well, she'll be free. She'll just come, you know, especially because she really lets us know how important Hannah is to her and how important being a mother is to her.

[B]

So Hannah. Hannah's number one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I love.

[C]

It's very sweet.

[B]

Very sweet. Now she talks about their first date. Richard takes her to Tao, which she hates. It's loud and disgusting.

[C]

Actually shuddered at the idea of being at Tao for first date.

[B]

Okay, I don't. What the fuck is Tao?

[C]

Okay, so maybe this is just an information gap. But I was like, tao, as I understand it, is like a nightclub. There's one in Vegas, and then there's the one in New York. And so I think it is just like. I'm trying to think of a good comp. I don't know. Imagine going to. Oh, all the clubs in LA are closed. Imagine going to a date in Hollywood at a nightclub for a date and being like, hello, you're very wealthy, but why are we here? And everyone is 21 and drunk.

[B]

Drunk. And I guess he was like, she's so much younger than him that he was like, I'll impress her with a.

[C]

Hot night out, buddy, you overshot the age gap.

[B]

Yeah, honey, you have an age gap. But she's a grown woman.

[C]

Yeah, she's 40, not 23. You're fine.

[B]

Yeah. And he. Then she says, not long after Tao, Richard invited me. The Met gala. The Met Gala. I nearly died. But in the same hour, he invited me. He also shot himself in the foot. Within 30 minutes of me saying yes, several dresses arrived at my apartment. Okay, Pretty woman. I called him up and pretended like I hadn't even opened them. I didn't want to give Richard the impression that I was a woman who needed to be dressed for an event because I wasn't that woman. I was familiar with how to appear at fabulous events. I'd been hanging out at Buckingham Palace. And so I said, richard, I am not six years old. Do you not trust me? Do you think I'll wear jeans to the Met Gala? Really? This was a test. If Richard was an, he would have dumped me right then. But he wasn't an. I thought it would be a nice gesture. He said, but I don't care what you wear. I just want to spend time with you. I ended up wearing my own Alexander McQueen gown, which was made by Alexander McQueen himself. It was so on point.

[C]

And so, like, question one. Do you think this is another one of her rules? You must berate a man for sending dresses to your home.

[B]

It's like, half of me is like, oh, wow. What would it be like if this happens to me? I'm like, yes.

[C]

Free dresses, romance, squealing, squealing in my apartment. I'm getting dressed. You know what size I am? Oh, my God. Thank you so much. But then.

[B]

Unless you got it wrong, in which case, then I. Then I guess I am breaking up with you. But if you got it right.

[C]

If I got it right, baby. And then so I'm like, okay, so part one, I'm like, all right. I guess I. I don't know that I would read it that way, that I'd be like, oh, he thinks I'm an idiot. He thinks I'm an idiot that doesn't know how to dress.

[B]

That's why I was like, oh, she is such a woman of society. This is her being like, you might be rich as hell, but I'm on your level.

[C]

Yeah, well.

[B]

Which is something I wouldn't have even have thought to do.

[C]

No, not at all. But then for her to be like, you think you're gonna swing your big dick with some dresses? How about my own Alexander McQueen? She pulls her own gun out at that point. Yeah.

[B]

And you're like, wow, fucking awesome. And then a couple pages later, she's like, like, he bought Bluestone Manor for me so I'd have a mansion of my own. And then I redecorated it my whole life. And it's like, okay, that's the thing.

[C]

They didn't even have a kid together. Which to me, I'm like, kids are collateral. Which is a problem. But you know where I'm like, okay.

[B]

Rachel, what are we doing here? How toxic was that?

[C]

Parents divorce pretty bad.

[B]

But I'm like.

[C]

The fact that he was just like, yeah, I just love you. Have a house.

[B]

Yeah. And here's the thing. She loves being a society woman. Maybe this was built into the deal. It's also just who Dorinda is. Okay, let's talk about their wedding. So imagine. Imagine everyone think you have. Have 30 minutes later, gown delivery at your door. Your man gonna buy you a house that's a manor on acres. Okay, what is your wedding gonna look like? Is it gonna look like this? In the spirit of our water inspired theme, we turned the entire restaurant into an enormous aquarium by installing projectors to give the impression that fit. Fish were swimming around the room. Instead of flowers, we had fish in glass balls filled with water and suspended from the ceiling over dining tables. And we covered the tables with huge Victorian style vases, all of which were filled with fish. This is the most hideous thing I've ever heard. And what happened to the fish? That's. I know. The fish weren't taken care of. No.

[C]

I was so concerned about the fish, I went, what's happening to the fish? And I was like, rach, that you're getting just caught up in the details about these live fish that are hanging from the ceiling, which is insane for some reason. I was like, actually, can you describe this a little bit more? Why weren't there. There's also a lot of photos that she provided. I'm like, actually give us a full spread of just this wedding.

[B]

Show me just the fish wedding. First off, you have not written anything within your marriage or romance that would indicate that, like, fish should be the theme of your wedding. Also imagine what's the theme of your wedding?

[C]

Fish.

[B]

Fish.

[C]

Where I'm like, there has to be a million better ways to simulate underwater than fish in a bowl from the ceiling. You just gotta be able to do it.

[B]

Also, just like, get married at the aquarium, where at least the idea is that they're taking care of the animals.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you needed to buy this many fish.

[B]

I'm so worried about what happened to the fish. I'll be thinking about it for a long time.

[C]

And I know that she was probably because I know she mentions that his boat a lot. And she's like, we love the boat. We had such magical times on the boat. I'm like, but that's a.

[B]

That's a maritime theme. That ain't a fish theme.

[C]

You're correct.

[B]

And then later in Bluestone Manor, she has a fish room that's decorated with fit. Like, she's. I always thought for some reason that Dorinda had taste, maybe from the way she dressed. And I think women who sport a shorter haircut in the face of housewives who have £19,000 of extensions on that kind of gives a level of. Of chic or refinement. That really made me overlook the fish theme of her life. All right, then everybody get ready for it. It has been a minute, but here it is. Dringo. Dringo. Dringo. Great people like Henry Kissinger would pull Richard aside at cocktail parties to pick his brain. The best thing about Richard, though, was that he had no air. He treated Henry Kissinger the same way he treated the valet guy. Richard truly valued every person equally. He used to say, everyone has a lesson to teach you. Henry Kissinger has once again shown up in a celebrity memoir and this time with the introduction. Great people.

[C]

Yeah. I wrote, this is not a good sentence.

[B]

This is a war criminal who murdered lots. Did lots of murdering from the Hightower.

[C]

Yeah. And wanted to pick your husband's brain up about what kind of strategies he was going to employ to destroy other countries.

[B]

Like, yeah, like, and. And Richard could help.

[C]

Yeah. He was doing like foreign exchange. Right, like monetary foreign exchange.

[B]

I'm actually going to say I need to look up like, Richard Medley job. Richard was the chairman and CEO of the consultancy Medley Global Advisors, which again, evil sentence. That is a way to say, say I do evil. A former Democratic staff speechwriter and congressional staffer, he was also a co founder of International Economy magazine and a partner at Soros Fund Management.

[C]

She also writes, basically what he did all day was geopolitical analysis. And I was like, destroying other people's countries. That's totally fine. Good thing. Great people like Henry Kissinger want to ask him questions about stuff and that he totally sees the value in someone like Henry Kissinger and Dorinda.

[B]

So do you great people. All right, so while she's married to Richard, she said she was asked to be a housewife, but says no. So she. This is like a woman of society about town. They're launching the series and they're like, Dorinda's the woman to ask. And she says no. Interesting. Okay. So then she's like, it's time for me to decorate Bluestone Manor, which is where she grew up in the Berkshire. And this, I don't think I really looked at the design of Bluestone Manor and all the episodes. I've watched enough. And I. I love Upstate. I love. I do have, like really wild over the top taste. So when I remember seeing it, I remember thinking, I didn't hate it. I was like, oh, interesting. Like, I love that she made choices. It was very maximalist to me. Then I read this in the book. I wanted the vibe to be Frankenstein meets Marilyn Monroe. I covered the closets in Silver foil wallpaper. I painted a hallway black. I even had the famous Douglas little design, this amazing chandelier made of animal skulls and diamonds and pearls to hang in the black hallway. My house is full of surprises. It's also completely utilitarian. I'm actually aghast. And I have crazy design taste. Like I hot glued fringe onto the bottom of every piece of furniture in the room I'm sitting in right now. Okay, so I'm nutso.

[C]

I mean, like, from the woman who brought you fish wedding brings you insane household. I think so. I do think so.

[B]

You tell me, guys. Maybe someone out there is like, Frankenstein is a great design decor. And I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to explain.

[C]

She does call someone out by name. Marshall Watson, who's not a name I'm familiar with. Not that I'm super in the design world anyway, but I was like, you're not even gonna give him a credit of some sort of like, you would know him from also doing this.

[B]

Okay, so back into the book. She designs the whole house, and then very quickly is like, Richard has lost his son, his sparkle and his shine. And this is really confusing because she's like, I begged him to go to a doctor, and it sounds like he did a. For years.

[C]

A long time. I mean, she said, he turned yellow. So I'm like, we're at level 10. You're dying from the inside out, and.

[B]

You won't go to a hospital.

[C]

Yeah, I would like to know about that.

[B]

What?

[C]

Dr. Skepticism. What's the problem? Is this just like, men are always like, I don't know. I'll die. Yeah.

[B]

What?

[C]

Don't intervene on me. I'll just die.

[B]

Also, to have this much wealth that could pay a hospital bill.

[C]

Dog, you have health care.

[B]

Oh, my God. You. Okay, so you. You probably have equity in a hospital somewhere. So she said, finally, when he lost so much weight, I had a total meltdown. And she said, richard promised me he would go to the hospital if I took him from New York to the Berkshires one last time. So they, like, go on a trip together, and then comes back and he goes to the hospital. And then it's quite confusing. She was like. And then just a litany of issues that never stopped. And he remains in the hospital and he, like. Because I think you didn't go the first time. Yeah, I don't. I really don't understand what was happening. But she does have a psychic moment where she wakes up one night and she's like, we have to go to the hospital and Hannah and her go in the middle of the night and Richard is suddenly very clear, he's his old self. They have this great night together and she just knew he was back to his old self. And then a few days later they go back and. And he's starting to die. And there were no decisions like the operation was gonna go terribly or he could be induced into a coma. She had power of attorney and says she makes the hard decision of like, this is the time. And she's sitting there and she says, out of nowhere, I heard this voice whoosh up in my body like a wind. I'm out of here. I turned to everyone and I said, he's gone. And then really sadly, horribly, we have our next Ringo where she says she was so stressed out and these three months he was in the hospital that she had dropped to 106 pounds, list her exact weight. And then she said, as horrible as this may sound, I think I was relieved because the caretaking and worry and stress had destroyed her and she was losing her hair. And Richard dies at 60, which is.

[C]

Quite young, very young.

[B]

And she said, I was a 46 year old widow.

[C]

This was a part. And when Hannah is born and the way she describes giving birth to Hannah, I was like, I think that's the most convincing thing I've ever read about, like becoming a mom. Not convincing, but I was just like, that's like. She really described well what I imagine motherhood feels like. It was so beautiful and moving. And similarly about Richard's death, I think she captured her feelings and the emotions in the room really well because it is so overwhelming and like the stresses, very real. And then when you're stuck between two decisions of like, hey, do you want to let your husband die one way or the other, you're like, well, that's pretty terrible. And like the stress of being in and out of the hospital and like Hannah's doing finals from the hospital and watching Hannah try to be a college student and also watch her stepdad die. Like those were the two parts of this book that I will walk away remembering because I think they're really, really well written.

[B]

I absolutely agree. It's hard because you really learn about Richard and what their relationship was like. Post her writing about his death. You don't get to grieve as much with her because you don't know what's happening. And then afterwards you learn that she picked his outfits out every morning, she made all the appointments in his calendar, she handled all the finances. They were extremely codependent. They were never apart for a moment.

[C]

The codependent jump scare.

[B]

Codependent jump. I said, wait, what? Okay, so Richard passes and she says, another psychic moment. About four months after he died, a well known psychic named Ann called me. I'd run into Ann at parties in Washington for years. She was a well known character in D.C. and a longtime acquaintance of Richard's. She'd advise people like Nancy Reagan and Jackie Onassis. I was scared to pick up the phone at first. What if Ann had something negative to tell me? And finally she picks up and she says, richard has been contacting me non stop because he needs to give you a message. And she said, let me pause and tell you for that. The first few weeks after Richard died, he was around. I know how that sounds, but it's true. I could feel his presence and I thought he was there because he was struggling to move on to the next step. I thought he didn't want to leave me, but he had to. So about two months into this, I spoke to him. You need to move on, Richard. Go. Soon after that, I didn't feel his presence anymore. He was gone. This is the most duranded thing I've ever heard where it's like, like.

[C]

That'S.

[B]

How you told him to go. Yeah.

[C]

No, she said, you're scaring me now. Get out of here, get out of.

[B]

Here, get out of here. And I get, I know, I know she's an intense grief, but the way it reads was like, ah.

[C]

Stop hanging on my neck. I do love how Catholic she is. There's like a bit like at the beginning where she talks about like not quite numerology, but she's like, I'm a little superstitious. And then throughout the rest of the book I'm like, oh, you are a religious woman.

[B]

Very, very. Also in your Frankenstein, Marilyn Monroe house. That's reading very old school design. So she said. Anne tells her, Richard wants you to know he loves you. He also wants you to know that he's sorry for scaring you. But he didn't want to go. He couldn't figure out why all those people were at the brick church. He wanted to be a part of it. He wasn't happy about leaving, but now he's transcended and he's doing great. He wants me to tell you that you'll always be his north last. If you ever need to talk to Richard, he'll be listening. So then I was like, oh no, I'm crying. I don't know why, but Somehow I am. And she said the do north thing was something they said privately to each other. She didn't know how he knew this. And, like, it was just incredible. And also just the idea of, like, if she ever does need him, like, he's going to be there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then one paragraph later, she wrote this. When I told this story to my mother, she reminded me of how when Richard and I used to tell take two helicopters to Hyena Sport Hyannisport, that, you know, that's how that's said.

[C]

I only know it because of a Vampire Weekend song. I'm doing culture by proxy. Where is it? Don't ask me that. I think somewhere in. In Massachusetts.

[B]

I'm not doing a pickup because I really would just. Everyone just focus on when we used to take two helicopters to wherever he with his children meet with mine. We'd wave at each other in the sky. Her mom said, remember, you couldn't talk to him, but you knew he was there. It's like that now. Just think of him as being in the other helicopter.

[C]

And so you're telling me that's not how you've always thought about death? Chelsea.

[B]

First off, is this an insurance thing? Like, should something happen to one of us, I'll die with my kid, you die with yours. Oh, can do helicopters. Is this a. Is there so many people and there's like a limit on helicopters? I need an explanation.

[C]

I bet it's probably just fun.

[B]

What? I'm kidding.

[C]

I mean, I don't know, but it's so. I didn't even think about it. I was just like, well, I guess when you're that rich, you do take two helicopters and luggage.

[B]

So we just think of each other as waving to two waving helicopters and the sky and. But again, these are the details that I was. I knew he was wealthy, knew he bought her a house, knew he sent her gowns. But then post, you're like, wait a minute. Every Friday you took two helicopters, okay.

[C]

Referring to death as helicopter in the sky from now on.

[B]

Then she said, richard and I used to have drinks at the Core Club about once a week. And John was one of the people we often ran into there. John was the owner of Madame Paulette, a well known high end dry cleaner in New York. And she's like, one time I had borrowed a Roberto Cavalli dress. I spilled on it and he saved me. So then she's out and about and she runs in to John, and John's like, how's Richard? And she said, you didn't Hear Richard passed away. John was shocked. Richard died. He died in November. John told me he was so sorry. Then he offered to take me out sometime. Let's go for dinner. Dinner. This man said, your husband's dead. That's fine. Can I take you out to dinner? And she said yes.

[C]

Not far off from when her and Richard got together, where Richard was like, you divorced? And she went, huh? You broken up? And they went, here we go, here we go.

[B]

She said, I had no idea it would turn into a six year relationship. John was the opposite of Richard in every way imaginable. If Richard was vanilla ice cream, than John was peanut butter ice cream. Gotta tell you, Dorinda, those aren't opposites. That's not the opposite of vanilla.

[C]

Why won't she say chocolate?

[B]

Did someone be like, this could be weird? Like, I also. She said that Richard was the opposite of Ralph, who was very. She was like, ralph was very vanilla. Now she's saying Richard is vanilla and John is peanut butter. You'd think she would go like strawberry confetti as a flavor. Rocky road.

[C]

Rocky road. That's kind of an in between.

[B]

What do you mean, peanut butter? I could put a scoop of vanilla ice cream and a scoop of peanut butter ice cream in one cup and I'd have a great night. Okay, those are two flavors that go together. When I'm talking opposites, I want like vegan lime sherbet and chocolate chip banana ice cream. And then you're like, that's a bad cup. They don't go together. Yeah, Again, I'm looking at. I'm looking at you, ghostwriter. Somebody said to redistribe on what opposite means. And then she's like, like, again, no details in this relationship other than on the show. Some people like John and some people hated him. And also they're over now.

[C]

Well, and also he lived in Queens, and that was a dirty place for her to be. She said that she wakes up in the middle of the night and she's like, I'm in Queens. This can't be right. And flees to her apartment.

[B]

Yeah. She was like, it's fine during the day, but I'm not going to sleep.

[C]

In Queens at night. At night.

[B]

And then she gets offered to be a housewife when she starts dating John. And she's like, I'm a widower. I'm a divorcee. I'm trying to find out who I am in life because I was so codependent with Richard. She says yes to becoming a housewife. And then the worst chapters on Housewives of any housewives memoir ever. You were supposed to drop some tea. You are supposed to share something the viewers would have interest in. Didn't know. All she does is recap her greatest moments. She talks about make it Nice. She talks about naming Bluestone Manor. And then she talks about my favorite Dorinda moment where she says, and then there was the time. Candace Bushnell, author of the original book that inspired Sex and the City. She said, there was a time Candace Bushnell asked me how I was doing, and I said, I'll tell you how I'm doing. Not well, bitch. Poor Candace was truly in the wrong place at the wrong time. She had no idea what was going on, nor could she have known that it would later be coming, become a part of an iconic moment on reality television. Which is like, yeah, that's great. But, like, we already saw that. So what are you talking about? She's like, I miss being on the Housewives. I got put on pause. I guess I made some mistakes, drank too much, but I'd love to go back. Had a nice time. Doesn't talk about any of the drama, none of the fights. She shares literally nothing, and ends the book. Well, I guess it's goodbye for now. I hope you have enjoyed reading this book. I did not. I hope it has helped you know me a little bit better. Did not. And I hope you can take away a few good lessons on life, love, work, family, and making it nice. Absolutely not.

[C]

No. I think that was actually a big frustration that I was like, you can't have a book this light. And then at the end of a book called make it Nice, there's not even a takeaway of like. And here are the things I've learned in my class. Ascension of how to make things Nice. Here's what I've learned about, yeah, moving up in society, hosting, no tips on the whole book. Felt like, well, I'm just so lucky that I married rich, but none of you poors will ever get to do it.

[B]

That's such a shame.

[C]

Like, it's a lot of looking down on. And I was like, damn. To not even put a recipe in there. I don't care if it's fake.

[B]

Oh, my God. Well, I do care. I'll kill you for that. But at least try.

[C]

She talks about how much work she puts into making everyone feel comfortable and welcome. And there's gifts and there's. And I'm like, give us a tip on what that looks like. But actually, as we were talking, Chelsea and you were like, she had Fish wedding. I was like, I actually don't need decorating tips from her.

[B]

I know. I know. I. I think Dorinda is so fun. She's such a fun character. I have really enjoyed her in the past, and this book just did not deliver her tone or style at all. But then again, neither. This is how she was on the Traitors, so maybe she's just in a different phase. Let's do the booktool test. First question. Was the author vulnerable and the sharing of her truth?

[C]

No, not at all.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Second question. Was it entertaining to read? No. No. And I'll say I read it in one sitting, but not because it was good, because it was just over so fast. Yeah. All right, final question. You never know. You never know. Did reading this book elevate your life in any way? No.

[C]

It did, in that I got to come have this wonderful conversation with you about it.

[B]

Yeah, but that doesn't count.

[C]

No, it doesn't.

[B]

It doesn't.

[C]

No, it doesn't.

[B]

You ready for this? Yes. It did elevate my life because it reminded me something that I forget all the time because, you know, listen, we're both in Hollywood. We're both around tremendous wealth all the time, and it's just a phenomenal reminder. Never trust rich people. Rich people suck just as much as everyone. This bitch had a fish wedding with billions of dollars. We already know that. Down with the billionaires. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Just a phenomenal reminder. We already know class system is bad, but you can also know they also don't know about traveling or having a nice wedding. That's how I'll end it.

[C]

That's a nice way to make it a little positive at the end, Chelsea.

[B]

Just a tiny bit. Rachel, you have a gorgeous new, brilliant podcast, and I know you played the bookto test on your podcast, so you tell everyone about it so we can go listen to your episodes. Love some new content. Take something nice during this very not nice time.

[C]

Certainly.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

My podcast is called Minor League tv. We watch shows and playback the, like, top moments, biggest fights. Kind of do, like, an analysis of all the characters that you see. This first season, we started with Summer House, so we looked at Summer House as an entirety. So all nine seasons, running it back, looking at people's character arcs, looking at their highest points, lowest points. We played the book dill test with Carl Radke's memoir, Cake Eater.

[B]

How'd it go? The book deal test, the booktool test on his memoir.

[C]

The booktool test was very fun. On his memoir it was a Dunkathon, I'll tell you that much.

[B]

Okay, I like that. I like that.

[C]

So feel free to listen to that up. But yeah, we are just finished our season with Summer House. As the new season is starting, we'll have some like in between fun episodes just catching up on reality TV in general. And then for season two, we're going to be deep diving into Love Island UK season five.

[B]

Also for everyone that you should all know that Rachel is is a hilarious fucking comedian. I've seen her go up and you are so very funny. So go follow. Do you post your shows on Instagram?

[C]

Oh yeah, Instagram. I'm on TikTok.

[B]

Drop that handle. Drop that handle.

[C]

Rachelfriedland. Get into it.

[B]

Get into it. A big thank you to our senior managing producer Christina Lopez, our executive producer Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer Marcus Hamm and our amazing assistant associate producer Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and every plate. We will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier you can join. Leave a comment chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there. Lifelock. How can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

[D]

One in four tax paying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud.

[B]

What do I do? My refund though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry, I can fix this.

[D]

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[B]

I'm so relieved.

[C]

No problem.

[B]

I'll be with you every step of the way.

[D]

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