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Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Hot Takes on Wicked + Kristin Chenoweth’s Emotional Memoir
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- [00:01]
Chelsea Devontes
This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini. With the Gemini app, you can talk live and have a real time conversation with an AI assistant. It's great for all kinds of things like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 to use Gemini Live. This episode is brought to you by.
- [00:28]
Alana Pena
Disney's Mufasa the Lion King get tickets.
- [00:31]
Chelsea Devontes
Now for the ultimate family holiday movie experience. Reunite with the characters you know and the untold story you'd never expect. Witness Mufasa's rise from orphan to king.
- [00:42]
Alana Pena
And see how the legendary villain Scar got his name.
- [00:45]
Chelsea Devontes
Disney's Mufasa the Lion King in theaters everywhere.
- [00:48]
Alana Pena
Now the kingdom awaits.
- [00:58]
Chelsea Devontes
Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dig into all of the glamour and all of the trash. If you have ever casually referenced Mariah Carey in therapy, then this might be the podcast for you. I'm your host Chelsea devontez. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And this week we are sharing a previously subscriber only episode where we book clubbed. I'm no philosopher, but I Got Thoughts Many Meditations for Saints, Sinners and the Rest of Us which was the 2023 kitschy memoir Esque cute book from Kristin Chenoweth who is obviously the Broadway legend best known for originating the role of Glinda or Glinda in the original Broadway cast of Wicked. And we are going to go in to the movie version of Wicked starring Cynthia Erivo as Elphaba and Ariana Grande in the role of Glinda and discuss all of our thoughts and give you a hot, brand new, fresh, newly recorded take on all of our thoughts about Wicked. And and then we are going to play our subscriber only episode. So please know if you want more episodes like this, it has existed. They are up. Go to our Patreon sign up sign up on Apple subscriptions. You get all all kinds of bonus episodes like these. We have an entire back catalog of memoirs we have already covered and every month we add new bonus episodes. So if you like this episode, consider signing up. Okay, Our guest today is a very, very special returning guest. You know her from the episode about Kristin Chenoweth we're about to play it is Alana Pena. After getting her start as a writer on Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Alana created Diary of a future president for Disney, where she was a showrunner executive producer. She's just incred. She has written features for Universal studios, Disney and 20th Century Studios, where she is currently penning the reboot of the 1988 film Working Girl. Unreal. I think I screamed about this in our previous recording. Happy to scream about it again, produced by Selena Gomez. Alana.
- [03:04]
Alana Pena
Hi.
- [03:05]
Chelsea Devontes
How are you?
- [03:06]
Alana Pena
Hi. I'm so good. How are you?
- [03:08]
Chelsea Devontes
I'm so happy you are back. Without even thinking, I was like, well, of course we have to talk to Alana. Not only because you originally discussed Kristin Chen with me, but because you are a huge musical savant and I just knew you would have so many thoughts about Wicked to the point that I tagged you on Instagram, that we were doing this episode before I had even emailed you to ask.
- [03:29]
Alana Pena
And it was the perfect alert. I literally immediately was like, yes, I'm doing it. I have seen Wicked twice. I am seeing it a third time on Sunday.
- [03:37]
Chelsea Devontes
I love this. I also saw it twice within 48 hours. I went and I said, well, I'll be going back as soon as possible, and I'm saving my third. I need to go back now with, like, certain pockets of friends of mine. So I'm waiting for that. Is anything special happening for your third viewing? What is the occasion?
- [03:56]
Alana Pena
Yes. So speaking of pockets of friends, I saw it the first time with a bunch of girlies. I saw it the second time with my family, like, cousins, kids, 8 years old, you know, watching them be converted. And then in eighth grade, I was the Elphaba to my best friend Kelsey's Galinda in our school talent show. We sang what is this feeling? And Kelsey is a dear, dear friend. She lives five minutes from me. So we were like, we have to see it together. So we booked these tickets, like, weeks ago.
- [04:28]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. I. This is. I'm shook. You played Elphaba. It's an intense vocal range.
- [04:35]
Alana Pena
Just one song. Just what is this feeling? We just did the one song. But, yeah, it's also. I think it's a lot of things on TikTok are showing up where people are like, this was my performance of Wicked in 2005. We were commenting, Kelsey and I. I just, like, it wasn't even on the table for me to paint my face green, and I regret it.
- [04:54]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, that was gonna be my next question.
- [04:56]
Alana Pena
Yeah, no, I just wore. I wore, like, a hardtail rollover mini skirt that was, like, black. Cause I was doing it in front of the whole middle school. I, like, wanted to look cute.
- [05:06]
Chelsea Devontes
Of course.
- [05:06]
Alana Pena
Of course.
- [05:07]
Chelsea Devontes
I feel like you and I share the same sentiment, which is that every time I forced my way or won my way into a choir solo, I truly thought, like, they're gonna hear me sing and everyone's gonna love me and men are gonna want, like, boys are gonna have crushes on me because I sang oh, Holy Night at the Christmas concert. Obviously.
- [05:26]
Alana Pena
Chelsea, I was just talking about this. You know what I think helped ruin it for all of us is a walk to remember. Mandy Moore singing Only Hope.
- [05:33]
Chelsea Devontes
That's right.
- [05:34]
Alana Pena
And Shane west, just, like, watching her sing and being like, I. The object of my desire, I was like, oh, so that's how love works.
- [05:43]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. And I can sing my way into a cute boy liking me. It's also so many scenes in movies. It's Katherine Heigl, it's 500 days of summer where somehow they stop down to roadside karaoke or like, they're gonna sing at the night out and the girl gets up to sing and everybody falls in love.
- [05:59]
Alana Pena
Yeah.
- [06:00]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Except never in real life. My relationship to Wicked is that I was in New Mexico and I just lived at libraries and Borders. Shout out to Borders. And so I just shout out to Borders. I just lived in those places constantly. And obviously the libraries close in the evenings. So that's when I moved over to the Borders and just sat in there. Sat in the. In the rows of books. And so I found this CD and bought it and took it home. I was so. I was just so small town. It's like, it's not. I didn't know I knew what Broadway was. I knew I wanted to go there. And I was like, I have this CD and I listened to that CD over and over and over and over and over again. I know every word. I know every moment. I never got to see the show. So, like, got to New York. Tickets are expensive. You would, like, enter the student lottery to try and win. Never won the tickets. And then they were gone. So seeing the movie for me was the first time I ever got to fully make sense of the lines that are in the songs.
- [07:03]
Alana Pena
But, like, that's huge.
- [07:05]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I. I always thought Fiyero was one. Maybe he is. I always thought Fearro was just like a conniving piece of shit. And then I saw the movie. It's like, oh, he had softer moments to him. But, you know, that wasn't in the songs. So, yeah, I was. I was crying.
- [07:18]
Alana Pena
I will say, you know the book writer of Wicked, Winnie Holtzman? She also co wrote the Movie. And I know her a little bit, and I think that, like, from this is me, this is now just conjecture, but it seems like they wanted Wicked to be an experience. I mean, obviously, whether or not you've seen the show. And I would say, I love the show. I've seen it twice. I saw it. Not original cast, but I saw it on Broadway when I was younger. And then my friend won the lottery at the Pantages, like, 10 years ago. So I got to see it, like, first row center at the Pantages, the tour. But I had, like, I feel like my relationship to it. And I emailed Winnie and I told her all of this. Like, to see it as an adult is a different thing. Whatever Wicked is for you in that moment is what it's gonna be. And I think that, like, this movie stands alone and it's elevated the material in ways I did not even think was possible.
- [08:14]
Chelsea Devontes
Like, tell me, tell me one of the ways it was elevated.
- [08:17]
Alana Pena
I mean, there's just more time, right? And I was a skeptic when I heard that they were putting it in two parts. I was like, okay, like, that's so extra cash grab alert. But now I'm like, the opposite. The scenes really had time to breathe. Also, it's Oz, right? It is the movie that invented color in cinema. Like, that deserves to be on a big screen. It is literally cinema. And Wicked the musical does amazing scene work and choreography. But to see Oz, to see the Emerald City, the poppy fields, even just all the scenes in shiz were a couple chairs and beds. And it was like the. The way that they told the story visually. And of course, I've watched The, like, you know, 15 minute differences between the movie and Wicked. Like, they. The way they honored the movie but made it its own thing, I thought visually was amazing. And then also just giving the story more time to breathe.
- [09:11]
Chelsea Devontes
Let's discuss a bunch of things about the movie before we get into our Kristin Chenoweth episode. So first, because you just said seeing the visual world, it is the movie. You know, the wizard of Oz introduced color and they did it through story, which is also incredible. Like, her world was black and white until she gets to Oz. And the ruby red shoes. It took me a while because the silver shoes they give Nessa Rose in Wicked, I was like, oh, that in my head, that's going to be the shoe she's wearing when the house falls on her later. But those are ruby red slippers. And one of the cookies on our Patreon taught me that, like, the Original shoes are supposed to be silver, and they made them ruby red. When it was Technicolor.
- [09:51]
Alana Pena
Yeah. It felt. Honestly, it makes me want to rewatch wizard of Oz. It felt like a love letter to the wizard of Oz in a way that, like, obviously, like, of course, Wicked is a love letter to the wizard of Oz, but seeing it in the form that wizard of Oz was in, it just was like the moment where she puts the lion in the basket of her bicycle. That's like Mrs. Gulch in Kansas riding her bike with Toto in the basket. Like, there's little moments like that where I was like, they're just nodding to these iconic moments that, like, invented cind. And I'm like, not a film bro. Like, I don't say things like invented cinema.
- [10:27]
Chelsea Devontes
Well, now that we have a movie that's for us and we've gotten two Barbie and Wicked, whether you like them or not, they're the ones that are for us. And so now we get to be cinema bros. And I can also point out, like, in the makeover scene, when she's singing popular, she throws a pair of ruby red slippers on her lap. Okay, so here's one thing that I have been going back and forth constantly. Me and our producer Christina have just sent so many TikToks to each other. So a popular criticism on TikTok is the color palettes and a lot of the cinematography decisions in the movie Wicked, to which my blanket statement is none of it is enough to change. Having a good movie experience like, you can love, and it's just a great movie. It's a great. I think it's fantastic. If you want to drill down into it. I did. I went back and forth a lot, but I kind of came to the idea that because it is this love letter and because the original wizard of Oz, like, invented color and Technicolor is, like, so, so, so saturated. I think I am at odds with the color palette they chose for this in that it not being more of a decision because they kind of chose a very faded color palette, which makes sense.
- [11:45]
Alana Pena
Yes.
- [11:45]
Chelsea Devontes
Very beautiful. It makes it very realistic. Right. So it's not like in that way. I'm like, oh, they just wanted to make it like a world you've lived in. But what did you think of all? It's a lot of cinema bros. Some of them are going way too hard. They're like, if I. If I blah, blah, I would jump off the cliff.
- [12:01]
Alana Pena
Well, and of course, it's worth noting the cinematographer is a woman.
- [12:04]
Chelsea Devontes
Of course. Yeah, so I'm sure they're extra mad. But I did have a couple of moments where I thought, like, yeah, given the comparison between these two films, it is interesting they didn't make more of an artistic swing in one of the directions.
- [12:18]
Alana Pena
Yeah, that's interesting, too. Especially just knowing Act 2 of Wicked is much darker. So this is like the happy Technicolor movie. You know, obviously there's darker and sad things, but this is the one where, like, I would expect this more from part two, because part two, things get. Things are very sad in part two.
- [12:39]
Chelsea Devontes
Which would also be a good way to call back to the original movie. But. Yeah. And listen, maybe the color palette in part two is about to be real washed out. I don't know.
- [12:48]
Alana Pena
I know, I know, but it's interesting. It's funny. I didn't think about it. This is why I have to see it multiple times. It's like, the first time I saw it, I was at the edge of my seat sobbing and, like, gasping and not well. The second time, I was, like, watching kids watch it, which was fun. And the line afterwards was, alana, why were you crying so loud? And I do think I need to see it. I. I need to say it a thousand times. But I think a third time, I will be watching it with a little bit more of a critical eye. Like, I wasn't. I wasn't able to really see that. Then I would see a TikTok and I would just. And, you know, it would be people, like, here's what I would do. And they went into, like, canva and, like, up to the saturation. And I was like, huh? I didn't even think about that when I was watching it. But it's true. And I wonder if it's the realism of it all. I wonder if it's like, you know, they wanted to ground it in the emotional relationship between these two women. And, like, her skin is already green. So if it was, like, bright, like, maybe that was part of it, where. If it was, like, too hyper color, it would take away from the groundedness.
- [13:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Our producer Christina made that point too, where she's like, I think, looking at the green main character for so long, if it was too saturated, it would be tough on the eyes, but you can still do stuff with the rest of the world. It is interesting to even, like, have this thought. But comparing it to the Barbie movie, that visual world was realized so incredibly and elegantly, and the color saturation, a part of me was like, maybe they're washing them out because everyone here is 35, laying 19. But then Christina's like, well, you know, ryan Gosling is 40 and Barbie, and they made it work. So. So I don't know. Okay, moving on to. I know, right? Moving on to another part of the movie. What did you think of all of the acting? Like, were there.
- [14:30]
Alana Pena
Oh, my God.
- [14:31]
Chelsea Devontes
Standouts? Were there people who. You're like, I don't know, like, who is your fave?
- [14:35]
Alana Pena
So it's funny. I pulled out the book just to be holding it for this interview. And I forgot that the foreword of Kristin Chenowicz's memoir was written by Ariana Grande.
- [14:44]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [14:44]
Alana Pena
They have had a relationship for years.
- [14:46]
Chelsea Devontes
Which I'm so excited to share in this episode because we talk about it in Christmas.
- [14:50]
Alana Pena
Okay, great. I was like, I hope we talk about it. We did. I thought Ariana Grande was unbelievable. I know that some people are split. I saw it with a friend who said something like, that was Lucille Ball level, Like, physical comedy.
- [15:02]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [15:02]
Alana Pena
I thought her physical comedy was really, really great. Again, I guess I should have maybe prefaced the whole thing by saying this. I wasn't just a skeptic about the two parts of Wicked. I was a skeptic about Wicked in general.
- [15:13]
Chelsea Devontes
Wait, you didn't think it could be made into a film or you didn't like the casting?
- [15:17]
Alana Pena
I was a little bit just like, oh, you're gonna make this a blockbuster. Like this pure musical that defined my childhood. Like, good luck. Like, I was like one of those film Bronx.
- [15:26]
Chelsea Devontes
I mean, they failed pretty badly with Rent, which is another one of those, like, really generation changing musicals. Yeah. And then when.
- [15:34]
Alana Pena
And I saw that three times in theaters and loved it. But I was also. And now looking back, I'm like, that movie wasn't very good.
- [15:40]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. And also in the Heights did not translate over very well. Which is the same director as Wicked.
- [15:45]
Alana Pena
Jon Chu, right?
- [15:46]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, Jon Chu. Thank you.
- [15:48]
Alana Pena
This is like a huge undertaking. And it's a thing that's, like, special to me and special to so many people. Like, are you gonna ruin it? I was a real. Not hater, but skeptic. And then the Ariana Grande of it all, I was like, ugh. Like, so we get a pop star.
- [16:03]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, yeah.
- [16:04]
Alana Pena
Like, I. I love her. I love Ariana Grande. Like, I should, I guess also say that she would have to my high school if she did not become famous. She went to, like, the middle school that fed into my high school. We, like, my school had two campuses. We know a lot of the same people. She's from South Florida. She went to Pine Crest. I went to Pine Crush.
- [16:19]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, my God. I knew you would have a lot of connections to Wicked, but so far, you've personally emailed the screenwriter, and you share childhood friends with Ariana Grande. But, yeah, go on.
- [16:28]
Alana Pena
I think we really like each other. And Cynthia Erivo, I was. I was like, okay, great. I'm glad we got, like, a Broadway person.
- [16:35]
Chelsea Devontes
Well, I want to pause really quick and talk about the Ariana Grande of it all, because read Jeanette McCurdy's memoir on this podcast, and when that book ended, I said, I'm ready to ride. Ariana gets pushed over a cliff at midnight. You know what I mean? Like, we hex it dawn. I can't believe she did this to her. In our episode, we discussed whether Jeanette was insinuating that Ariana Grande was the person who blocked Jeanette from directing her first episode of television on their show. And my guest was very adamantly, like, it absolutely was not her, but after having sat with it, it absolutely was. And so I was really, like, you know, torches out. And she. I was.
- [17:15]
Alana Pena
And, like, in the beginning, and no one mourns the Wicked.
- [17:18]
Chelsea Devontes
Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Thank you for making connections here. And then I think on top of that, I've discussed it a lot on this podcast, but, like, anytime, like, a girl kind of consistently goes after men who already have partners. Like, I'm like. So I'm, like, kind of, like, out on her. So then she comes on to snl, which, you know, we want. We, like, like, every good comedian, married couple, you know, we play it on Sundays. And so she was doing SNL and prep for, like, Wicked promo, and we press play. And I was like, she's the most talented person alive. Like, her comedic timing, which is something that some of some of our most famous comedic actresses don't come close to Ariana Grande's level of comedic timing. Like, they're kind of faking it. She has it, and she can do it in song. Like, in song, she can make comedic choices. So I was like, she's, like, the most talented person of our time. I understand why all of those things happened on the TV show where she's like, bye, I gotta go be famous. Jennette McCurdy, you should act with a box, which was one of the episodes. So. Yeah. And then watching this role, the only thing that I thought was a misstep was the color of blonde. Because, listen, we are. Have you tried to. We are brunettes. Have you tried to go blonde before?
- [18:32]
Alana Pena
No, I could never. I'VE have you?
- [18:35]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, I've been attempting it my whole life. I grew up in Utah. Like, how do we get to blonde? I was very much like, Jessica Simpson has brown eyes and blonde hair. Like, we can fucking do this. But it's really, it's really, really hard. Anyways, that was my only qualm. And then Cynthia, I thought was unbelievable. I already loved her voice, but I hadn't really seen her acting. And she also was the person who I thought most like, I. I believe she was 19. Where like some of the other actors, I was like, listen, I don't care. But like, we are 40 and that's okay.
- [19:08]
Alana Pena
But like, and that's fine. And part two, we. I don't know how much time passes, but some time the lion cub grows up. So part two, though, it'll. It'll make sense. Maybe. No, I totally agree. One thing I was also worried about as a, like, theater insufferable person is that she would do a Kristin Chenoweth impression. Yes, Ariana. And I was really delighted at how much she made it her own.
- [19:31]
Chelsea Devontes
Did they have brains or not? Don't make me laugh. They were popular, right? It's all about popular. Yeah.
- [19:40]
Alana Pena
Like, I was like, I am seeing shade. It goes back to elevating it. Like, I've listened to this soundtrack before the CD was even available. I used to go to wickedthemusical.com and listen to the 30 second clips that were available.
- [19:52]
Chelsea Devontes
I think you talk about this on the episode.
- [19:54]
Alana Pena
Oh, hilarious. Amazing. It's fine, I tell everybody, but I've been listening to it forever. And I know Ariana has too, just from all the press I've seen her do and our close personal friendship. Just kidding. I wish. But I. I was just really. I saw shades of the character I hadn't seen before. And I felt the same with Cynthia as Elphaba when her younger self is.
- [20:13]
Chelsea Devontes
Dropping down and she reaches out and grabs her and she grabs the brain. Stop sobbing. I. Sobbing.
- [20:19]
Alana Pena
Me too.
- [20:20]
Chelsea Devontes
I felt like Cynthia fully made the role her own and something new going off of just the soundtrack. And I loved it and I prefer it. Love Idina, but I think Cynthia knocked it out of the park.
- [20:51]
Alana Pena
Yeah, 100%. And I think. I know you keep saying just the soundtrack, but that's like, yes, I saw it a couple times, but my relationship to Wicked is the soundtrack. Like, I don't remember. There were a lot of plot things I didn't remember because again, there wasn't as much time in the stage version. And that's not on the soundtrack. So that's not, like, playing over and over. Like, I kind of forgot about all the animal stuff, which is the whole thing.
- [21:12]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Huge part of it.
- [21:13]
Alana Pena
Yeah.
- [21:14]
Chelsea Devontes
On my second viewing, I realized that when Elphabet gets to the school and she's like, bringing Nessa Rose back and the big cement sign crumbles, it reveals what used to be there, which it was a school of animals.
- [21:30]
Alana Pena
Yeah, it was animals. I noticed that my second viewing too. Who knows what we'll see on our third.
- [21:34]
Chelsea Devontes
My God. Okay, last little casting thing. I thought Bach, who is also known as spongebob, who is also known as Ariana's boyfriend, who is also known as the buried man who had a child, who became Ariana's boyfriend, who does have.
- [21:47]
Alana Pena
A name, Ethan Slater.
- [21:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Thank you. I knew you would have it. I thought he was great. Thought he did a great job. The guy who played Fearrel was incredible and so funny. I did not think Madame Marable was a good call in that. I remember that being, like, a pretty strong singing role. And Michelle Yeoh, like, doesn't seem to be a singer.
- [22:11]
Alana Pena
No. And get ready. Cause part two, she sings more.
- [22:15]
Chelsea Devontes
No.
- [22:16]
Alana Pena
Yeah. It's interesting. Again, my first viewing, I was like, I'm so, so glad I saw it twice before we talked about it. Because after my first viewing, I would have been like, anything negative is, like, the wor. The wrong opinion because I was so in it. But then I saw it a second time. I think that Michelle. I like the severity she brought to it. I thought her turn was really compelling. But I've been watching clips and tiktoks and listening to the soundtrack. Madame Morrible's a little quirky. Madame Morrible's a little silly.
- [22:46]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [22:46]
Alana Pena
And can sing really well.
- [22:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. It's the singing that got me.
- [22:51]
Alana Pena
Maybe some of it goes hand in hand where, like, this does not seem like a whimsical person who's gonna break into song. It seems out of character when she sings. And she just seemed like way more like. I didn't even remember Madame Morrible was the villain. That's how little I retained from seeing the show two times. And I think Michelle Yeoh gave villain but did not give singer.
- [23:11]
Chelsea Devontes
Yep. I think that is well said. Let's talk about just some of the themes. So it's so, so good. But I'm weirdly feeling like the idea that this is actually about fascism isn't hitting people. And the smaller B story, which is that it's about, like, animal rights and, like, Actually, like not caging animals and, you know, treating them horribly, which, like, leads into the food industry. These were. At least the fascism was written into the original book. Wicked. Like, it was a book written to fight fascism. And the idea that, like, we should go overseas and fight a war, sort of like making this invisible villain in order to unite the country. So.
- [23:52]
Alana Pena
Yes.
- [23:53]
Chelsea Devontes
Do we think people are picking up on that as the actual story in this movie? Because I feel like it's not hitting.
- [24:01]
Alana Pena
I feel like I've seen some things. Are people really, are they thinking it's about animals?
- [24:07]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes.
- [24:08]
Alana Pena
Which also.
- [24:08]
Chelsea Devontes
I'm also here for that too, where I'm like, it's not. Yeah, fucking stop with the like, Listen, I'll cry. I'll cry about animals all day. I don't feel like they're picking up on the fascism as a whole.
- [24:19]
Alana Pena
I, I, I, probably not. I mean, I feel like I've seen way less, like, I mean, I'm not on Twitter anymore, but I've seen way less screenshots of tweets and like, things like that about. And it's funny, the second time I saw it, I was with my mom the next day. She was like, you know, I was thinking about something and it was that she was like, I was thinking, and I was like, oh, yeah, no, that's correct. Like, but it wasn't. And I'm glad she came to it, but it wasn't something where she was like, oh, I was reading this article, or this was in the Zeitgeist. Like, so I hope people are coming to it. To me, it is so on the nose, especially in like a post election. And not in a bad way. Like, it's.
- [24:52]
Chelsea Devontes
It hit for me what I wish they had done. And obviously I know why they didn't. But what I wish they had done a little bit is make more of a mapping that when they out loud say, one common enemy can unite the people. Right. I wish there had been a nodding to, like, hey, by the way, that's the idea of immigration right now. It's the idea that the economy is broken is because immigration is a problem, which is why he has to deport millions of people. Like, yeah, I feel like that line isn't being sort of drawn as like, what we should be mapping this to.
- [25:30]
Alana Pena
You know, it's funny you say that, Chelsea, I love talking to you. It's funny you say that because you mentioned Barbie earlier.
- [25:36]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [25:37]
Alana Pena
And I think a big critique of Barbie, at least from me and I think from other people, is that it was so on the nose. The message of feminism, like, I loved Barbie, and they really wanted to make sure people got that message. Like, that monologue America Ferreira gives is beautiful. And that makes it text. Like, there is no subtext. You're not wondering. You're not going to bed and waking up the next morning and saying, oh, I think that was about feminism. Like, they're telling you. And I think this one did the opposite. Where it may be for such a global sensation, for something that literally, like, I watched children watch and then, like, do the toss, toss thing Glinda does, like, in their seats while they were watching, like, for something that's going to define a new generation, I think they could have made it a little more text because. And maybe there was, like, a fear in doing that, and maybe there.
- [26:25]
Chelsea Devontes
But it's a political text. It is a. That's why it's one of the most incredible works of art of all time. Because it is. Yes, it is the songs that you want to sing at your talent show. It is one of the very few dueling female leads in a complicated relationship that I'm just so horny for on this podcast all the time, you know, I'm always asking for, like, Girl Hamilton, and it's like, yes, this is Girl Hamilton, and it predated it. And it's political. It is about so much more. And so I feel like we lost a piece of that. Okay, let's talk a little bit about just the actual female friendship story, because what was in the film that's not in the soundtrack was those beautiful scenes between them that are going from, like, hate to enemies, to digs to friends, to really vulnerable to saving each other, to, like, it is the most nuanced female friendship film of all time. I'm sobbing my heart out because Galinda has so many layers of good and bad, which I feel like is what you think of when you think of every female best friend you've ever lost. You're like, she's a fucking evil bitch. And she's also the best and brilliant.
- [27:34]
Alana Pena
Yep.
- [27:35]
Chelsea Devontes
And they have a role that is all of those things together. And she gets to be the comedy of the show. It's, like, one of the best roles of all time. And obviously Elphaba is the lead, but, like, comedy is. There's just such few comedic roles for us. Like, it's incredible.
- [27:49]
Alana Pena
Yep. No, it's pretty amazing that it is a comedic role that contains so much nuance. It feels. It feels unbelievably real in the world.
- [28:00]
Chelsea Devontes
And she's the it girl. Like, the it hot girl. Like, usually they're like, all right, you're the dumpster on the side that, like, says one line every hour. And, like, you're funny. Like, the fact that it's like, oh, you're gonna be one of the leads and you'll be funny as well. Yeah, it just blew me away. I mean. Sobbing. It's like, she knows that she doesn't want to go with her, and because she's choosing. She's the villain. She's like, no, I'm a sellout. I just want, like, popularity and safety. But also, you understand why she's choosing it. And then when she's up in the fucking air, she's still defending her because she doesn't know if she's fully evil yet.
- [28:29]
Alana Pena
Yes. I mean, I can't wait for part two. This is a love story about female friendship. And it was like. I think that's true. I think that we have the songs. You know, you forget sometimes that Defying Gravity is a duet. In the beginning, we think of it as Elphaba's song, but it is like, it starts with the two of them, and it's like, what could we be? And I think it's. I mean, it's just so, so good and rich and nuanced and layered and, like. I don't want to give spoilers, but I was, like, thinking about it.
- [29:03]
Chelsea Devontes
The whole thing has definitely been. Oh, actually, well, for part two.
- [29:05]
Alana Pena
For part two, I was thinking about part two. Basically, it's. It's a love story, but it's a tragedy about this friendship and about these two women wanting different things and needing different things.
- [29:15]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. Last thing I want to talk to you about. It's just like, oh, I'm so. I just love that this movie. I'm. I'm totally fine being Millennial Cringe. Being, like, Wigan. Like, it's fine. I'm just so grateful for it. The last thing I just want to talk to you about real quick is the press tour, which. The last time the press tour for a movie, like, really took on a life of its own. It was a. I think it was. Don't worry, darling don't worry, darling yeah, yeah, yeah where they're, like, everyone's enemies and hates each other.
- [29:47]
Alana Pena
Yeah. They spit at the thing and. Yeah.
- [29:50]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, it was. It was incredible. It was better than the movie. It was an amazing ride. Now, this press tour has reached the same levels, but without any. There's. It's drama. It's all love. And what I love and never knew is that, like, Ariane and Cynthia are both these, like, like, fragile theater kid on high. Yeah. Both holding one finger as we talk to each other right now. These, like, beautiful beings who've like, been through so much and are just, like, holding each other's hands and it doesn't feel. It's not fake. Like, they both are on a wavelength that doesn't always exist between two leads in a movie. It's so beautiful.
- [30:35]
Alana Pena
I do think it's so funny. And I do think, like, that's on theater. I think these are two theater girls. I think that they. They grew up in, like, they felt seen by. With Ariana. I know it was this musical with Cynthia. Like, I just feel like they. I know Cynthia went to drama school. Like, these are women who grew up in, like, massage circ and grew up in, like, really emotional name games and zip zap zaps. You know what I mean? Like, this is what made them artists.
- [31:04]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes.
- [31:04]
Alana Pena
And they're together, so it's like, it's an explosion of theater.
- [31:09]
Chelsea Devontes
And they're doing the musical of this interview. Yeah. And really, almost everyone who was cast also is a theater kid, so they're in a protected environment. So my husband Yasser was like, I really see why, of course, Ariana is with Ethan Slater. And I was like, what do you mean? Because her past boyfriends, like, Pete Davidson, random real estate agent man.
- [31:29]
Alana Pena
She married Mac Miller. The one who died.
- [31:32]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, Mac Miller. So anyways, he was like, she's a theater nerd, and you'll always need someone to speak your deepest language. And, like, you just do, or a part of you just is just never seen in the relationship, which is, like, why you end up artist, state artist, which is always tough, but, like, also necessary because you speak that language. And so he was like, well, of course she can bring this other side of herself to the relationship with him. And I said, I love it all. I just wish he hadn't recently had a child.
- [32:03]
Alana Pena
My aunt was, like, telling, like, she was like, did you know that they left each other's houses for each other?
- [32:09]
Chelsea Devontes
Wow.
- [32:10]
Alana Pena
Yeah. Like in the movie, she's, like, whispering over to me. I'm like, no. Yeah, I know. I basically covered that for my friend group. But there's the line where Ethan Slater says to Ariana, like, I'd do anything for you. And my aunt in the theater loudly goes apparent.
- [32:26]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. Love your aunt. You know, talking in movies, not great. Your aunt. Welcome to. Welcome to the theater right now. It was. That was.
- [32:32]
Alana Pena
We. It was fine. She was Saying that I was sobbing. Like, between the two of us, people were like, why? What are we doing here? But I. It's funny, I think that's a really beautiful way of looking at it. Because another way to look at it, which I think is also true, and not a bad thing necessarily is Ethan Slater is a straight musical theater boy. Straight musical theater boys. You don't see it if you're not in it. Like, I was talking to somebody who's not really a theater person who was like, I don't understand, like, why is Ariana with Ethan? And I was like, he's a street musical theater boy. Like, in his world, he's one of a million.
- [33:04]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Yes. And he has the ego of a God because he's been a straight musical theater boy his whole life. So he's been like, he's had his pick of the chorus line forever.
- [33:14]
Alana Pena
He could have had Sheila, he could have had Morales, the whole chorus line cast.
- [33:19]
Chelsea Devontes
But.
- [33:19]
Alana Pena
And like, he. And I think that, you know, Ariana is drawn to that energy and I think there's like a joyfulness. Joy. The word is joy. I think there is a joy there and like a love of theater. And like, at the end of the day, I think what this press tour revealed about one of the most famous people in the world is that she just like, wants to feel joy and like experience things that make her cry with joy and cry with emotion. This is just like a very feelsy girl. She's one of us. She's kind of.
- [33:49]
Chelsea Devontes
She's a cringe millenn, but she's been put into the cool girl box.
- [33:54]
Alana Pena
Yes.
- [33:55]
Chelsea Devontes
And cosplays as it beautifully with all of whatever, you know. And I think seeing that break is really beautiful. I still don't cosign the relationship in any way, but I just. Yeah. Huge fan of her.
- [34:07]
Alana Pena
Yeah. No, it's a. It's fascinating. And they had a showmance, like, which is Hugh Jackman.
- [34:13]
Chelsea Devontes
And Hugh Jackman.
- [34:14]
Alana Pena
Sutton Foster.
- [34:15]
Chelsea Devontes
They had a showmance. Showmances will bond you. Like, like the Bachelor does, where you have like one month and 10 hot tubs and like, you're like, I guess I love you or. No. Showmances last longer than the Bachelor wants to. The showmances will bond you. Also, like, a long term relationship might, where you get to like, you're just pouring so much into it before you actually make contact.
- [34:33]
Alana Pena
Well, yeah, and then we saw the press tour. It's like if that's Cynthia and Ariana and they're platonic friends, like, what are Ethan and Ariana? You know what I mean? Like, the energy there must be intense.
- [34:44]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, so now we are going to play this episode that you and I recorded a year ago, I think exactly a year ago. I didn't have the strength to go back to fully listen to this because the one thing I remembered is that I started crying so much that we had to cut parts out of the podcast where I was speaking more. I was saying things to you, but it sounded like. So I was like, oh, that didn't. I didn't record any words. I like, actually recorded out more crying than you are about to hear on this episode. But yeah, that's the power of musicals. That's power of Kristin Chenoweth. I'm so excited we did this book together. And me too. So much for coming back. Please tell people where they can find you. Follow you. You were on the beat, you know, for your friend groups of hot goss. So where can people.
- [35:31]
Alana Pena
You can find me just, you know, in a Los Angeles coffee shop talking about theater happenings. Instagram mainly Lonstagram, Lan Stagram on Insta. And yeah, find me. Tell me your hot theater takes. I'm here for all of them.
- [35:46]
Chelsea Devontes
Thank you so much for coming back.
- [35:48]
Alana Pena
Thank you, Chelsea.
- [35:49]
Chelsea Devontes
I have been.
- [35:50]
Alana Pena
Shane. No, no, literally, I was like, about.
- [35:53]
Chelsea Devontes
To join you because I knew you.
- [35:55]
Alana Pena
Because I knew you.
- [35:57]
Chelsea Devontes
There we go. There we go. I knew I'd get you singing. Oh, she's the soprano. Okay.
- [36:01]
Alana Pena
All right.
- [36:01]
Chelsea Devontes
Enjoy the episode and subscribe if you want bonus content. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be right back. Thrive Cosmetics is my favorite makeup. They have thousands of five star reviews, they're cruelty free and they have my brand new favorite product that I have used every single day since I got it. It is their brilliant eye brightener, the shade Stella. I use this in conjunction with their liquid lash extensions mascara and it is gorgeous. I get so many compliments. It truly highlights your eyes and creates the most beautiful eyeshadow that has depth. Brighten your holiday look with Thrive Cosmetics, luxury beauty that gives back. Right now, you can get an exclusive 20 off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com glamorous trash that's thrive Cosmetics. C A U S e m e t-I c s.com glamorous trash for 20 off your first order, go get that brilliant eye brightener shade Stella. This episode is brought to you by US Cellular. You shouldn't have to sacrifice a great experience to get a great deal and US Cellular Prepaid agrees, which is why right now you'll get a new Samsung Galaxy A15.5G for free without any hidden fees, like the device activation fees you get with those other prepaid providers. So you can use your free phone with US Cellular's nationwide 5G coverage to stay connected to the ones you love without having to make sacrifices. Terms apply. Visit uscellular.com for details. This episode is brought to you by Lifelok. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping.
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Alana Pena
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Chelsea Devontes
Visit LifeLock.com podcast terms apply. Okay, let's dive back into the episode. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dig into all of the glamour and all of the trash. If you've ever referenced Mariah Carey in therapy, then this might be the podcast for you. I'm your host, Chelsea Devontes. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And this week we are book clubbing Kristin Chenoweth's second memoir. I'm also going to call it Memoir Ish, Memoir Esque. It's a little bit philosophy, a little bit self help. It's also got some personal stories. It is titled I'm no Philosopher, but I Got Thoughts, which I found so funny. I love it. It also feels very in her voice. It was published recently. Hot off the presses. This is a new release, January 2023. This book really surprised me. Okay, so at first I was like, I don't know about this book. It's giving inspirational memes, it has Bible passages, it has a few personal stories. And then all of a sudden I was crying. I was like, the book like shook me to my core. Really took me by surprise and I. I ended up loving it. So let's start by playing one of my favorite Kristin Chenoweth songs from, of course, Wicked. Don't be offended by my frank analysis. Think of it as personality dialysis.
- [39:22]
Alana Pena
Now that I've chosen to become a palistor and adviser, there's nobody wiser.
- [39:27]
Chelsea Devontes
Not when it comes to popular. I know about popular.
- [39:33]
Alana Pena
And with an assist from me, to.
- [39:35]
Chelsea Devontes
Be who you'll be instead of dreary.
- [39:37]
Alana Pena
Who you were, well, are. There's nothing that can stop you from becoming popular.
- [39:42]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, we are diving into it all today with an amazing guest. She is a screenwriter and the creator, showrunner, executive producer, and director of Diary of a Future President on Disney Plus. She has also written on the CW's Crazy Ex Girlfriend. She was named as a 2020 recipient of Forbes 30 Under 30, so Sexy, Hollywood and Entertainment. And she was honored in Variety's 2021 Inclusion Impact Report. That is not even including all the other amazing stuff that I know she is up to. It is Alana P. Yeah, hi.
- [40:15]
Alana Pena
I'm so happy to be here.
- [40:17]
Chelsea Devontes
I am so happy you're here. This was just such a long time coming. And so I started removing the how we met stories from this podcast because I got, like, one comment, someone didn't like it, and that was enough for me because I am a baby. And then I got an outpouring of love and DMs and messages and emails telling me to keep that part of the book.
- [40:40]
Alana Pena
Honestly, I feel like there's probably something in Kristin Chenoweth's book that's like, if one person says something bad, don't listen to them.
- [40:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Of course. And it is such a. Like, it is such a flaw and toxic trait of mine to hear a hundred nice things and only think about the one bad one.
- [41:00]
Alana Pena
I mean, me too. Yeah.
- [41:02]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But no, I want to get better at it. So guess what? We're doing How We Met stories again. If you don't want to hear this one, skip ahead two minutes where we will be diving right into the book. But, Alana, I feel like this story actually makes me a little emotional.
- [41:14]
Alana Pena
Me, too.
- [41:14]
Chelsea Devontes
And I'm also. So I made a New Year's resolution on this goddamn podcast like, a month ago to cry less on it.
- [41:22]
Alana Pena
Why would you do that?
- [41:24]
Chelsea Devontes
I can already feel like I might cry on this episode.
- [41:27]
Alana Pena
Like, I've already blown the resolution. When we met was a really emotional moment. I feel. I think we both cried.
- [41:35]
Chelsea Devontes
We did. We did. Yeah. I was a wreck in public. Like, we were in a. We were not only in, like, a public setting. It was like an outdoor bench spot where, like, people driving by could see that I was crying. And it was our first time meeting.
- [41:50]
Alana Pena
It was our first time meeting, and it was love at first sight. I. I knew a few facts about you. I knew we shared a therapist. That is.
- [41:58]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. That when you told me that when I sat down, I think that's what. I lost it and never came back.
- [42:05]
Alana Pena
It does feel very apt for this book that we share a therapist. I know we met through Jordan, we met through your amazing manager and my amazing, amazing friend. And Jordan, very astutely, was like, you would both love each other. We finally got drinks, and, like, we both cried. And then I think you had dinner with Jordan, and we, like, walked over to dinner with Jordan, and we were like. You were like, she's coming to my wedding. Yeah. I was like.
- [42:28]
Chelsea Devontes
I had just met you, and I was like, she's coming. Well, you know, sometimes you just meet someone and you're like, I don't know. You just, like, know you're supposed to know them. And I think also. So you met me. I was not currently in a hard time, but I was still really feeling the reverberations of a hard time. And see, I'm already crying. No. And you extending your friendship to me in that moment, I won't even be able to articulate to you how much it meant to me till I'm still in it. You know what I mean? I still get sad. So it really, really meant a lot to me. And we went through so many book options. Like, you have been coming on this podcast for, like, the past two years, and we went through so many books, and we finally landed on Kristen. And at first I was like, oh, I don't know if this is gonna be a good one. And by the end of it, I was like, I cannot fucking believe this is the book you and I are doing, because it's so perfect in so many ways. And it really shook me.
- [43:27]
Alana Pena
I cried through the whole thing when you texted me. I think neither of us realized it would be like, you know, memes and quotes and, like, self helping.
- [43:35]
Chelsea Devontes
A lot of pictures, a lot of graphics.
- [43:37]
Alana Pena
A lot of graphics. Like, I'm trying to find one. At the end of the day, we think we can do much more than we think we can. Frida Kahlo, like, that would just be, like, in a thing, and. But the. The things she wrote, the. The personal stories were really beautiful and well written, and I have such a respect for her.
- [43:55]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. So of all the books we went through, what made you. What made it Chris and Chenoweth? Because we had so many options, but you chose this one.
- [44:02]
Alana Pena
I wanted it to be really purposeful. I wanted to not just be like, oh, this is like, a book that seems fun, or this is, like. I wanted it to be. It's. I'm decorating my house right now, and I feel very, like, I want things to be very purposeful, and I love that. If I go on Chelsea's podcast, I want it to be Purposeful, like, why me? It's so stupid. It's like.
- [44:20]
Chelsea Devontes
But I'm like, no, no. This is what I love about you. Yes. Yeah. Intentionality.
- [44:25]
Alana Pena
I wanted to be intentional with this, and I'm like a musical theater head, and I feel like we bonded about being theater kids and. And acting. And when I was, like, in middle school and Wicked came out, it was huge for me. And I, like, remember crying at the Tony Award performance. Like, watching it in my living room. I feel like Wicked signified just, like, the career in the arts. I was just listening to a podcast episode. I think it might have been Molly Shannon's of yours.
- [44:53]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [44:53]
Alana Pena
And you talk about how, like, this career is our soul. Like, you can't not do your soul. And.
- [44:59]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes. Yeah.
- [45:00]
Alana Pena
And I think that, like, Wicked and theater and Broadway was, like, my introduction to soul career, and I feel lucky enough to be able to follow my passion. And then. So I wanted it to be intentional. I wanted to do, like, a theater kid book. And then here we are.
- [45:14]
Chelsea Devontes
Let's dive in. Okay, so the forward is by Ariana Grande, which is so funny. And, you know, Kristen played Glinda in Wicked, and now the new Glinda is Ariana Grande. But Ariana, like, won a contest to meet her in Florida as a child, and they both have these, like, epic vocal ranges and are both physically very tiny people. They had a lot of similarities. I wasn't. I wasn't aware of.
- [45:44]
Alana Pena
Yeah, no, it's funny. A fun fact about me is Ariana Grande and I grew up not in the same town, but, like, kind of near each other. She went to the middle school of the high school I went to, but, like, a different campus. She always says she didn't get into chorus with Mr. Malone. And, like, all of my friends were in chorus with Mr. Malone, so.
- [46:02]
Chelsea Devontes
Did you. Oh, okay.
- [46:03]
Alana Pena
That was before I went.
- [46:04]
Chelsea Devontes
Before your time.
- [46:05]
Alana Pena
But I believe I probably. I was in chorus middle school. Sorry not to. I love Ariana Grande.
- [46:12]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [46:13]
Alana Pena
But. Yeah, I was like, what? It was this contest in Florida that, like, I didn't win. I'm all, yeah, well, you were like, what?
- [46:19]
Chelsea Devontes
This was available to me. Yeah, but.
- [46:22]
Alana Pena
Yeah, where was that part she talked about, like. Like, hanging out with her dog or cleaning up after her dog or something.
- [46:29]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Basically, like, Ariana and her mom, like, visit the dressing room, and Kristen's dog pees all over her own dressing room couch. And then Ariana helps her clean it up and says, like, a life highlight for me, which I. You know, we don't often see. Like, a truly funny side of Ariana. So I. I really enjoyed that. I also love that that happened. You meet your idol and their dog pisses all over the couch. Like, absolutely more correct to most Idol meetings. Yeah, I love it too.
- [46:55]
Alana Pena
And they've worked together and they're friends. And Ariana Grande just posted that Instagram of her, like, bundled up in that. Did you see it?
- [47:01]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. She's proving she can sing by singing Somewhere over the Rainbow, which is such a special song to Kristin Chenoweth that she gets engaged to it. Okay, okay, we're jumping ahead. First, we're gonna dive into the book. And for me, it started off a little, you know, a little slow. So the first thing I wanna call out is that it's also a little bit of an activity book. So she has, like, subdivision of my mental real estate, and she has, like, a. A sort of funny but real kind of like, circular pie graph, and she split it into sections of, like, what takes up her mental real estate. I swear to God. This is also something that was printed in an Oprah magazine that I did as a child. And then she gives you one to make of your own. And I was like, yeah, yeah, we're doing charts. We're doing charts. And this is the point in the book where I was like, huh? Like, you know, what is this gonna be? But also, there's a time in my life, probably like, around 20, I would, like, like, salivate for a mental health chart. You know what I mean? Like, I'm ready to make my pie chart. So I liked that. But then on page four, she writes, like, basically, she knows Christianity is a big part of her life. One of my favorite stories about her is her and Aaron Sorokin dated for a long time. He's this massive atheist, she's this massive Christian. And like, they. I think they. I don't know why I know this. Like, where did I. I don't know why this is in my brain. But basically, their debate, their philosophical debates about, like, God and ethics and life and meaning was, like, a very lovely part of their relationship until it led to the part where you. It's still. You know what I mean? It was still too much of a divide.
- [48:36]
Alana Pena
Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. I think it's so interesting she dated Aaron Sorkin, especially after reading this book.
- [48:42]
Chelsea Devontes
Wild. Also, we talked a lot about this on the Matthew Perry episode, but Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, the relationship between Matthew Perry and Holly Hunter is like, apparently, Holly Hunter's based on Kris and Chenoweth. Which I always find super interested.
- [48:58]
Alana Pena
Yeah, I read that too, when I was researching for this podcast appearance.
- [49:03]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, thank you for doing the work. If there's one person I know who does the work, it is you. So Christianity is a big part of her life. And she basically wrote this quote, I eat the fish without choking on the bone, which is something her grandma had told her, which is that there's a lot of. Basically her saying there's a lot of parts of the Bible that don't speak to her. Like, for instance, she's very pro marriage equality in the LGBTQ community. And yet we all know there's things in the Bible or people who believe in the Bible who are very anti. She was just sort of saying, I take the good and I don't let the bad bother me. And I thought that was nice to put up front in terms of how she is bringing her Christianity. That said, there's, like, one of our next activity charts is that it's like a little activity chart where you can write questions to God.
- [49:51]
Alana Pena
And it starts like, do that one.
- [49:52]
Chelsea Devontes
Dear God, I just wrote. No, no. Two pages before I wrote Love God a lot of. And the thing is, is, like, if you are a Christian and faith is important to you, Highly, highly recommend this book. Like, this is just such a beautiful book. I started to worry that because I'm not. Not Christian, like, that maybe I wouldn't. That maybe the book wouldn't be for me in any way. Does that make sense?
- [50:17]
Alana Pena
I'm Jewish. I've never read anything like this in my life. I was just like. It felt like reading people's, like, Facebook wall posts, you know, when people, like, quote the Bible, like, because it's something that I'm so far away from, but all in one book. And I was just like, oh, I never imagined that this would be that.
- [50:36]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes, yes. And I. I sometimes joke that I'm a Christian witch because there are certain things in Christianity that I have found a lot of philosophical value in, but I still was like, I don't know if I'll be able to hook into this book. So I was starting to get sad. And then she wrote. She said, I always knew I was adopted, but I also knew exactly where I belonged. My wonderful mom and dad, Junie and Jerry Chenoweth, took me home a few days after I was born. And from that moment, I was their baby girl. Richly blessed, dearly loved, never wanting anything. My family was my family. My mom, dad, my brother Mark, and me. Every one of us perfectly imperfect in a way that Fit together like a sweetly crazy little can of fruit cocktail. Much like your family, I'm guessing. And I wrote, no. What? Like, why are you assuming this is crazy? Like, I was like, wait a minute. Are you gonna assume everyone has, like, a great, perfect family in your book? Like, this is when I got really worried.
- [51:40]
Alana Pena
I was like, oh, no, that was a tough sentence. Cause I read it twice. Because I was like, wait, does she mean my. Like, I was like, why are you saying that? It just felt odd.
- [51:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I kind of got, like, bristled and like, oh, no. Are we not gonna be aware that other people don't have family like this? Okay. Then we get into a story where I was like, oh, this is. It's theater. Kid on high. So she said, my very first day in Florence Birdwell's class, she said, I'm gonna have one of her upperclassmen sing for you in a moment. I want everyone to know where they're headed. But before we do that, I'm going to ask Kristi Chenoweth to sing. Humming. Humming. Humming what? She was putting me up there with someone I knew to be her star pupil on my first day. Because apparently I was just that good. Feeling pretty chuffed about the whole thing. I went to the accompanist and gave him a few brief instructions. And then I went to the front of the room and delivered my exuberant 18 year old on the first day rendition of New York, New York. I love that. That's.
- [52:40]
Alana Pena
I know.
- [52:41]
Chelsea Devontes
I just love it. And she, like, sings her heart out. She just gives everything. Everyone claps. And then she says, I hauled that sucker in with a big finish. And everybody applauded like crazy. Everybody except Flowbird. She pressed her hand to her heart and said, oh, I can't wait to teach you how to sing.
- [52:59]
Alana Pena
I said, I know, I know.
- [53:02]
Chelsea Devontes
So painful. And then she is like, I needed that. It was humility. And then she does this whole section on the difference between humiliation and humility. And that being said, though, I could totally see that story as humiliating. Do you know what I mean?
- [53:21]
Alana Pena
Well, she did it to humiliate her. She knew what she was doing. Flowbird.
- [53:26]
Chelsea Devontes
Flowbird. And I think the reason it wasn't humiliating to her is that she says, I knew I could sing. No one could take that away from me. And that was never Flowbird's intention. Her intention was to prove to me that there was a better way to use my instrument. And in order to do that, she had to feed me a slice of humble Pie. If she hadn't been so secure that she knew how to sing and no one could take it away, this moment might have taken it away. Like, there's just, like, this brutality in theater school that I also went through. And it's very interesting to wonder, like, are these methods truly what it takes to carve that thick skin? Like, carve a star out of, you know, this student? Or. Or is this. I just. I really couldn't gauge it.
- [54:14]
Alana Pena
Did you ever. I had a moment. Not like this, but, like, I mean, I went to theater school. I was like, in acting. And, like, we did the Greeks one day, and I don't know if, you know, the. The Greeks are very, like, guttural and visceral, and everyone is like. I think I was doing, like, Elektra or something, where it was like, my mom had, like, killed my dad. Like, everything was so intense. And I. You. I go up there. I'd, like, rehearsed. I was so excited. I'd go up there, and my teacher, dawn, she was, like, in her 70s, like, leathery skin, like, such a dame. Beautiful in so many words. She was like, what you are doing shows me you're not serious about this. This. Go outside, rub some dirt on yourself. Like, you are not feeling the emotions of this. You need to be like, yeah, grungy and dirty and, like, you're heartbroken and go out. And, like, she made me feel, obviously, way less because, like, my mom didn't kill my dad or whatever, but, like, she made me feel, I think, the way she wanted the character to feel. So I went outside, and I was, like, pissed. I was like, I'll show her. And I, like, rubbed dirt on myself. And I was wearing some little, like, pashmina. And I turned. I took off my shirt, and I turned the pashmina into, like, a bra. Like, I was kind of, like, not really wearing clothes, and I just like, oh, my God.
- [55:27]
Chelsea Devontes
And I, like, musty my hair.
- [55:28]
Alana Pena
And I came back in there and I said the thing. And she was like, yes, that. And it's like, looking back, like, was that good for me? Like, but what. Like, what is theater school? I have no moral of that story. Just that I remember feeling that.
- [55:43]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, but no, that's exactly it. Where it's like, what? And I do love that she gave. She's like, humiliation lies. Humility speaks truth. Humiliation silences you. Humility empowers you. And so she's. And she has more. So I was like, oh, this is really nice. Like, how do you know the difference between, like, Humiliation and, like, humility. But, like, yeah, I have a. I have a good handful of moments like that, and I'm like, even trying to go back and be like, what was humility and what was humiliation? Like, there's a couple of them. I'm like, those were. That actually was humiliation. I mean, and especially, like, asking her to sing purposefully to follow up with one of her star students. That feels so different than, like, trying to make you better for a specific role.
- [56:29]
Alana Pena
Yeah. Well, it also seems like the teacher. It's funny because I also like that she wrote about Florence Birdwells if, like, we all knew who she was. And, like, I'm a huge theater nerd.
- [56:37]
Chelsea Devontes
We all know Flo Bird.
- [56:37]
Alana Pena
And I. I was like, florence Birdwell soprano. Like, I didn't. Yeah, I was like, I think she's a famous singer.
- [56:43]
Chelsea Devontes
She's fucking lucky she didn't ruin her Kristen Shino's life to the point that we wouldn't have her art right now.
- [56:49]
Alana Pena
I know, I know. I know. This book made me really happy to have her art. I know we're gonna get into, like, the. Her origin story and stuff, but just. I was like, wow, I'm so happy that this person that we have her art. I just was really happy.
- [57:02]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes, I totally agree. And I. I think about it often, too, of how it is. It's so tough because this is advice when in the wrong hands, goes terribly. But I think of the screenwriter of Drop Dead Gorgeous. That movie was just ripped to shreds. And she tries another movie, and it's sugar and spice, and she hates what the studio does to it so much. She takes her name off it and then really disappears. And. And it's this thing where you're like, I love this artist. I love this person. Like, what else could they have written? And this thing that you want for every artist is to, like, please keep going. Please, please ignore the haters. Like, please don't let them get you down. And that's such a, like, tough ask, you know?
- [57:47]
Alana Pena
No. Yeah. And she. What? I just sort of felt knowing, like, realizing that I kind of knew very little about Kristin Chenoweth, even though I was like, I want to be intentional. And I picked this book, I was like, I guess I don't know much about her. Like, I know what I've seen her in, but it's not like I've been following her career step by step. She has stayed so true to her voice. She is always. Whether she's, like, hosting Candyland, the game show, or, like, guesting on Glee or, you know, the pushing Daisy. Like, all of the roles that she's played are so true to her. And I just was like, that's hard to do.
- [58:25]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, she's got a very, very strong core.
- [58:28]
Alana Pena
Yeah.
- [58:29]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. So jumping back into it, she has this section titled, like, thoughts about Vertigo. And the graphics on the page are, like, wildly vertigo and twisted and text is every which way. And it was, like, actually making me sick to read it.
- [58:48]
Alana Pena
Yeah.
- [58:48]
Chelsea Devontes
I was like, I can't even do the Vertigo section because you're giving me vertigo. And I also came away never knowing if she was talking about vertigo or later she talks about battling depression, and I kind of came away thinking she was using vertigo as a way to talk about, like, emotional depression, up and down, anxiety up and down, or if it was, like, actual vertigo. And I still don't know.
- [59:13]
Alana Pena
Well, she talks. I think she. I think it probably is, like, a mix of both because she has vertigo. Like. Like, I don't know if you're familiar with Julie Andrews's, like, notes. That's something. I'm very Julie Andrews, you know, beautiful voice. Songstress of our time had, like, nodes, had surgery to get it out, and then was never sounded the same. And, like, they truly robbed her of her instrument. Like, when I think about that too hard, like, I get. I got, like, upset. She sings, like, in Princess Diaries, too. And it's, like, beautiful that they gave her a song, but it's, like, sad because, like, you know, Anne Hathaway and Raven Simone are, like, out singing. Julie Andrews.
- [59:50]
Chelsea Devontes
Who Unbearable. Yeah.
- [59:51]
Alana Pena
It's just, like, hard to see they're a great singer. You know what I mean? It's just hard to see Julie Andrews, like, struggling to keep up. But Kristin Chenoweth talked about she, like, has something wrong with her, like, in her ear, and she's like, there is a way to fix it, but I can't take that chance if it would mess up my voice. Like, she. She was like, I. And I had this, like, Julie Andrews moment where I was like. Like, oh, like, you are willing. Because I do think that there's depression and there's things. And obviously, like, a lot of really awful.
- [60:19]
Chelsea Devontes
But yeah. In her ear, then that really is vertigo.
- [60:22]
Alana Pena
Yeah. And I think she has something. But she. That could probably be, like, pretty. Not easily fixed, but it seems like there is a solution or a, like, potential solution. And it's like, her voice is everything. She's like, I can't touch it. So she's gonna. But. Yeah. But also her life has been pretty. I mean, we'll get into the accident and all that, but, like, yeah, I imagine it's all related. Related, though, too.
- [60:46]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes, I agree. I agree, I agree. But the graphic designer who messed that text up really messed my reading up.
- [60:53]
Alana Pena
No, it was hard to read. And I get it. And I was a little bit like, oh, are they gonna, like, rewrite it so that we'll understand it in normal text? And then they didn't.
- [61:00]
Chelsea Devontes
No.
- [61:01]
Alana Pena
It's like, oh. They were like, no, I guess I have to go.
- [61:02]
Chelsea Devontes
No, we're not doing that.
- [61:03]
Alana Pena
Turn my head around.
- [61:07]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. Then there's, like, a little chart. It's a bracket of things that go from grudge monger, which easily could be my Instagram handle, to, like, obligation to accept. What. Anyways, it's this little bracket, and no matter what you choose, everything leads to get over it. Generosity, love. I was like, all right, you're really, really coming for me. I will say, my other graphic design qualm with this book is that there's this beautiful illustration of her as kind of like a Greek goddess going with her, like, philosopher title. But then that exact illustration is used over and over and over again in the book, and it's such a graphically heavy book. I was like, give us a photo shoot. What's going on?
- [61:51]
Alana Pena
I know. And she always. She talks about how much she loves dressing up and shoes and putting on fun outfits and. And they showed that photo every time a personal story would come. So I had this, like, duality of thought where I was like, ooh, we.
- [62:04]
Chelsea Devontes
Got a personal story.
- [62:04]
Alana Pena
Then I was like, like, here's the same photo.
- [62:07]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Like, give a. Like, I'm. I'm really shook by the decision to not do either a brand new photo shoot or do illustrations of, like, real photographs in her life.
- [62:17]
Alana Pena
Oh, I was, like, dying to see her mom and mama Lynn. And, like, I was, like, dying to see. And it was literally. And I had to look at the picture again. I was like, is this picture that. I mean, it's good, but it's not like. I don't know. It's fine. She just looks like a good God.
- [62:31]
Chelsea Devontes
I think you would love it. Except they use it 50 times, and now we have less love for it. I think that's really fair. Okay, then. Now we're probably, like, a third of the way through the book, and there's this illustration of what looks like a hand sanitizer bottle, and it says, apply as needed to life and cancel culture.
- [62:52]
Alana Pena
I wrote random cancel culture. Ref.
- [62:55]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, I Was like, what? And then. Yeah. And then below it says, keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out. Walter Koch thing, parentheses paraphrase, which I find very funny. But I was like, what's this? Like, I was like. I started to notice these little phrases that I was like, there's either a generational thing or, like, a secret Republican thing going on. Like, I couldn't. I think I eventually came to understand. Understand what she meant, which is like. And it's something that. I do think it is generational where, like, I've. Where I feel like cancel culture to a certain generation feels like the Fox News lie. Like, it really is censorship. And I do think cancel culture has been made into actually so many things at this point that it no longer has a definition that we can use.
- [63:49]
Alana Pena
When I read that, I was like. I literally was like, oh, what is she talking about? Like, what? Cancel culture?
- [63:53]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, it's usually like a tug whistle for conservatism. So I was pretty. I was like, what is this?
- [63:59]
Alana Pena
But then she had. Did you catch in some of the charts? It would be like, things I love. Like, my dog. Things I don't love. Trump. Like, Trump was like, yes.
- [64:09]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Oh, and then. Oh, my God, there's a section. I fucking loved it. She said, partial list of people who probably need my love right now. Anyone who lives with me, anyone who lives with an asshole. Anyone who is an asshole. Folks who work at animal shelter, folks who get nervous about traveling caregivers. Tiffany Trump. I said, that's nice. She does need love badly. And then, I mean, did you see her wedding photos? It's just. It could tell a tale. I went hard on Instagram.
- [64:34]
Alana Pena
I think I saw them on your Instagram.
- [64:36]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Yeah. I was like, this is a layered story. And then people in line at the dmv. People in line at the DMV with Tiffany Trump. So I was like, okay, so the cancel culture really isn't, like, a political move for her, but it is for her. It's like this hate and casting out of people and not offering forgiveness.
- [64:54]
Alana Pena
It definitely, like, gave me a. Like, a fright when I first saw it, but then I forget where it was and what it's about. But she talked about, like, a couple times. She tweeted on Ambien, I think. Ambien?
- [65:04]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [65:05]
Alana Pena
And then, like, woke up and got, like, kind of, like, semi canceled. So then I was like, oh, is she just.
- [65:10]
Chelsea Devontes
But they were really light. It was like. She was like, oh, my God, don't go on a cruise ship. You'll get murdered. And in the morning, her reps were like, yeah, you have a contract to do Royal Caribbean commercials. Like, what are you doing?
- [65:20]
Alana Pena
Yeah.
- [65:21]
Chelsea Devontes
No.
- [65:21]
Alana Pena
And she wasn't, like, canceled, but I think. I think that maybe I was like, oh, that feeling. Yeah, that feeling of, like, did I just lose everything? From, like, one silly moment, nobody should have to, like, go. But then it's like, you know, some people should be canceled.
- [65:34]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, page 65 changed everything for me.
- [65:38]
Alana Pena
Yeah.
- [65:40]
Chelsea Devontes
She said. After I shared some thoughts about my adoption in my memoir, A Little Bit Wicked, the Oprah Winfrey show reached out and asked me if I'd be willing to come on the show and be reunited with my birth mother, to which I said, like, every producer should go to jail. Like, are you out of, like, you guys? It is just like. So I've been on a rant where I'm like, oh, Oprah did some real damage. Then again, like, Maury is over here doing, like, is he or is that the real father? So it's like, everybody did damage. But, like, I can't believe this was a real pitch.
- [66:10]
Alana Pena
No, I know. And because she'd been so positive throughout the whole book, I, like, was afraid the next sentence was going to be like. And I thought, what better way to meet her? And I was like, yeah. I was so grateful. When she was like, no.
- [66:22]
Chelsea Devontes
She's like, yeah, I want to read some things on the next page. She said, that was a hard pass for me. I adore Oprah. I knew her staff had the best of intentions. I'm going to say I'm not so sure, but I like that she's positive. But it didn't just feel like the right time nor place. Don't get me wrong. I had questions. I'm a curious little Nancy Drew when it comes to everyday mystery. And then she, like, does these other jokes, and then she says, I never wanted to ask my bio mom, why didn't you keep me? I wanted to ask her, where did you find the strength to let me go? Whoever this woman was, she went through the pain and effort of bringing me into the world. And then she had the humility and grace to recognize that I belonged to someone else. She placed me in a closed adoption, retaining her anonymity. I was happy to respect her wishes. I had no desire to disrupt her life or peek inside some. Some unpredictable can of worms that might disrupt my own connection. Feels risky because it is. You can't always let your heart roll your head. You feel your way forward for the right reasons. And at your own pace. There's a sweet spot somewhere between Fools Rush in and Fuck y'all. Only you know where and when that is. No one has the right to pressure you to make a connection you're not ready for. Okay, so then I started crying. I'm actually crying now.
- [67:32]
Alana Pena
Oh, Chelsea.
- [67:36]
Chelsea Devontes
I, I, I've been, like, writing. I've been writing my book, you know, but I'm writing my book, and it, like, it really opens you up in this, like, just very intense way. I would say it's like therapy, except you don't have a therapist to guide you. It's like you and your computer and your brain, so it's, like, very easy to get lost in it. And I've been trying to write about my stuff, and I was just like, it just hurt talking about that.
- [68:04]
Alana Pena
Oh, Chelsea, I don't think you should stop crying on the podcast. I mean, I just think it's a beautiful thing because you've created this environment where people are listening right now, and they're feeling permission to feel emotional as well.
- [68:17]
Chelsea Devontes
You are, like, you're the therapist I need, like, right now in this moment where I'm like, yeah, I just kind of wrote above that. I was like, oh, me, Me. Like, I really needed to, like, hear this. And for anyone who's like, what the fuck is going on? But I've talked about it a lot in past episodes, but I'm donor conceived. My biological father is an anonymous sperm donor. And so this idea of, like, finding the, like, person who gave birth to you is, like, a really heavy presence in my life. And her just saying, like, her just talking about how painful a connection is and how I think, particularly for me, like, no one ever gets that. Like, people are always just. It's almost as if, like, you feel like you're like a freak show for people. It's like, oh, my God, the detective and the journey. And, like, are you gonna find him? What do you think? And, like, oh, the answers. And you're just like, this is, like, a part of my heart is, like, shredded. And it's, like, funny for you, you know what I mean? And her talking about how it's actually quite horrible in the most positive, lovely way possible. There's, like, I can see my tears on the page.
- [69:21]
Alana Pena
No, you almost, like, can't tell that it's meaningful because it's also. She sneak attacks it. It's so.
- [69:26]
Chelsea Devontes
She sneaks it.
- [69:27]
Alana Pena
Yeah, with, like, you know, memes about, like, donuts and, like, strawberry cupcakes.
- [69:34]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Yeah.
- [69:35]
Alana Pena
What was that one where it was like, anyone, do you ever want to put a strawberry cupcake in someone's mouth?
- [69:40]
Chelsea Devontes
I was like, yeah. And I think. I think that's her way of saying, don't you ever want to tell someone to shut the fuck up? And she says, don't you want to throw a strawberry cupcake in their mouth? I know it is. I will say that that is the power of her, which is like, so it's such an on the nose metaphor because she even talks in the book. Like, everyone talks about how tiny she is, and she's blonde and cute and sparkly. She has this tiny little fairy voice. And yet she's so deeply powerful because she's sneaking it in.
- [70:07]
Alana Pena
Yeah, no, I loved that. And you had texted me that the book made you cry, and I wasn't there yet. And I was like, I wonder if I'll know what section made her cry. And then I knew.
- [70:17]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, yeah, it made me cry through. And then she has her psychic moment. She said. So basically, she said, overwhelmingly, my feeling towards my biological mother was gratitude. And I thought it was important to honor that feeling. So every year on my birthday, I checked into a nice hotel and spent a good part of the day focusing on prayers, thanks, and good energy on her, hoping she'd feel my love and gratitude wherever she might be. I was open to the idea that she wanted that door closed. But I always kept an open door for her in my heart. It didn't matter to me if she could feel the breeze passing through that open door. I felt it. So here's where it gets into the mystic. Years after I turned down that offer from the Oprah Show, I was in a place where I finally did feel ready to take the next step. But I wasn't sure how to go about it. Out of the blue, I got a call from the locator, that fella from the Oprah show. He said, I felt like it was laid on my heart to reach out. I have some information about your birth mother, if you're open to it. This is like years after this Oprah show. And she said, yes, I'm open. And a few months later, I met Mama Lynn, who tells her that every Mama Lynn says, after we chattered and cried and caught up on 40 some years of separate destinies, she told me, every year on your birthday, I found a room where I could be by myself and pray for you, hoping you'd feel my love and my connection. And so they're just like, I know, I know. It got me so hard.
- [71:36]
Alana Pena
I Know it's so beautiful because also when she wrote that, I was like, oh, I would never necessarily think that on your birth, like, it was such an interesting. You go. You check into a hotel, you go to somewhere private. And her mom did essentially the exact same thing. Like, they both had this instinct to just sit in the quiet and feel, like, gratitude for the other one.
- [71:56]
Chelsea Devontes
It's just like.
- [71:57]
Alana Pena
And it's not even, like, an instinct I've heard about. I was just like, wow, you both are. You're, like, related.
- [72:03]
Chelsea Devontes
It's, like, really beautiful. It was so beautiful. And it was so. And then she ends this little portion saying, I bet dollars to donuts, someone needs someone exactly like you, and they're preparing to welcome you into their life. I suspect someone misses you and listens for your footsteps on the stairs. Someone remembers the corner of your smile and laughs out loud when they think of that time y'all two were at that whatchamacallit. Someone knows you exist and cares that you're happy. And although someone's connect to the greater everyone, this I can promise, if you find a quiet place to close your eyes and let yourself feel it, someone will be praying for you. Spoiler alert. It's me. And then I said, okay, I'll be a Christian, no problem.
- [72:47]
Alana Pena
No, it's so. It was so beautiful. And it was one of those moments where I just was like. Like, you hold the book to your chest and then.
- [72:53]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [72:54]
Alana Pena
I love her so much. I love this part. But the next page, I was like, wait. It was like another weird graphic that I genuinely. We just didn't understand.
- [73:02]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Wait, will you read it?
- [73:05]
Alana Pena
As I read it, maybe it'll help me get it. It says, timeless text messages. And I'm like. I'm in it. Like, I'm feeling it. Like, my eyes are watery. And it's a text that Kristen. Wait.
- [73:16]
Chelsea Devontes
It's from Kristen to her birth mother and her adoptive mother.
- [73:22]
Alana Pena
Oh, that's what it is. Okay. I think. I thought. I didn't see that it was to both of them.
- [73:27]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. So Mama Lynn is her biological mother. Mom is her adoptive mother.
- [73:31]
Alana Pena
I thought that they were identical texts. And I was like, what am I supposed to glean from this? But, yes, it's very sweet. So it's two images of texts from Kristen to the various mother. Mother figures, like, biological. And one of they both say, mama Lyn, mom, you made the wonderful decision that gave me life. Thank you. Because they both did. It's like, a beautiful sentiment, but I was so confused by the graphics yeah, well, it's also.
- [73:55]
Chelsea Devontes
They're not. It's also not real text messages. It's like an illustrated. It's like. No, it's very odd.
- [74:02]
Alana Pena
It's funny because it's like, millennial boomer vibes. It's like a pillow that says it's wine o'clock, but it's saying something, like, incredible about, like, family and motherhood. And I'm like.
- [74:15]
Chelsea Devontes
It just. My brain, like, didn't know what to.
- [74:17]
Alana Pena
Do with it 100%.
- [74:21]
Chelsea Devontes
It is. And it's like. It comes after, like, one of the most emotional pages for me. And you're like, whoa. Okay. You're like. Then you're, like, out of it again.
- [74:29]
Alana Pena
The image of Kristin and the phone is that same image of her.
- [74:32]
Chelsea Devontes
It's the same illustrate. I know. I was like, ugh, you guys. Yeah, it was a real. Okay. Then she shares. So then we go through a lot of more memes and activities, and then she talks about how she says, mama Lynn was no angel, but she had wings. Again, one of those sentences where she is saying a lot while seeming as if she's saying, you know, live, laugh, love. But basically she's saying, like, you know, there's a lot of darkness there, but she had wings. And then she said, the only information I had about her for a long time is that she had been a flight attendant. She said, or stewardess, as she prefers it, which is, like, what they were called back then. And she was one of the flight attendants. She said, she's a Braniff girl, which is in that 60s era where, like, to be a flight attendant, they weighed you, and they were like, if you weigh more than you know, and you had to, like, look like a beauty pageant star and have your hair coiffed, and you were just kind of like a very. And, yeah, so that's just, like, the little story she shares. And then she kind of goes into work and, like, her purpose. So, yeah. So then she goes into what happened on the Good Wife set. She said, I remember the exact date because 711 was always the day you get a free Cherry Coke slurpee at the 7:11 on 4th and Broadway. I just. I don't know. I just really. 7 11s really speak to me. They.
- [76:02]
Alana Pena
And to me, like, memorializing, like, sad things with happy things. Like, I. I had a breakup on PI day, so, like, March 14th. So people would be like, oh, like, when did you guys break up? And I'd be like, still really sad. And I'd be like, it was PI Day. Because, like, that's how I remember the day in my mind.
- [76:21]
Chelsea Devontes
And now it's like forever PI day. We'll take.
- [76:25]
Alana Pena
I know, girl. Sometimes sad things happen. On happy days.
- [76:30]
Chelsea Devontes
On happy days. And listen. 711 free Slurpee day. That's a happy day.
- [76:34]
Alana Pena
It's a really happy day.
- [76:35]
Chelsea Devontes
So basically she's on set, first day of this dream gig on the Good Wife. She's gonna have multiple episode run and one of she's like they call action. She starts to walk in the scene. Basically someone on production had not secured this thing called a silkscreen, which is like for lighting, which sounds very light but is like quite heavy. They hadn't secured it. A gust of wind hits it and it slams down on her and crushes her into the pavement. She said it hit me full frontal and slammed me to the pavement. My head cracked against the curb, leaving a 7 inch gash. That would have been worse, the doctor told me, if not for the tightly woven hair extensions that held my scalp together. I love it.
- [77:16]
Alana Pena
Incredible.
- [77:16]
Chelsea Devontes
She said, that's right. I owed what was left of my concussed brain to a well placed line of hair extensions. Never, ever underestimate the power of a good weave. And later she says, I see God in my extensions.
- [77:31]
Alana Pena
That was incredible. Also, like, I had no idea that happened. I.
- [77:36]
Chelsea Devontes
Me neither. And it did get. It was in the news. But I mean, she doesn't end up suing them. I assume it's because the show came and made it right even before the chance. But she said, like she said, I have not known one day without pain. And there are days when the pain defines me ever since that accident. So she's living with chronic pain now. And she says she can't lie. She's still extremely angry about it. But she said, I'm careful to keep that anger clean. Clean and contained. Which I also thought was really beautiful in the sense of like, she knows she's angry, but she's not gonna like use it to maybe like be a monster towards others. But then she said, I love this anecdote. She said, early in my career, I met Bette Midler at a party and she said, hey, kid, how's show business? Oh, it's wonderful. I gushed. And I told her about my Broadway thing and my TV thing and my movie thing. How lovely all the people are. Bette laughed and said, okay. She said it in this wise ass way that seemed. Seemed so sideways to me at the time. Now I get it. Boy, do I get it. And she's just talking about, like, how hard it can be and how she. Maybe. I think she was saying she was. She had a lot of toxic positivity.
- [78:52]
Alana Pena
Which I appreciate well, because this book also could be seen as, like, bubblegum pink toxic positivity. It's like you read about, like, her almost. Almost having. You know, almost dying on set, and then she's like, I see God and hair extension. But she's. She's just able to sort of, like, compartmentalize. And I. I really like. Because I'm a very, like, optimistic, stars in my eyes person. And I think that is something that does keep me going when things get hard. Like, I'm just like, oh, I have a million things to do, and I'm stressed and I'm underwater. But, like, I get to do this. I get to do this. I get to do this. And the duality of both existing at the same time that she has. Like, you can be critical of this industry for all of the toxicity it has, and you can love it, and it can be your calling, and you can. She had that thing. I mean, I'm skipping ahead, but when she was in quarantine and got to go out to do Candyland, she was like. I underlined it, but it was like, I feel purpose, and when I work, I know who I am. Like, yes.
- [79:54]
Chelsea Devontes
Which is. I mean, that could be a tattoo on my neck.
- [79:58]
Alana Pena
Me too.
- [79:58]
Chelsea Devontes
I think. You too.
- [80:00]
Alana Pena
Yeah. And I just was like. And how cool that she's like, when I work, I know who I am. Also, I recognize that this business can be toxic. Both can be true. I'm gonna spit the truth. I like. She's just.
- [80:10]
Chelsea Devontes
I really like her. Totally. Okay. Then she has a story about her assistant saying, hey. Oh, my God. This is the quote. Kristin, do you want to send something to this event honoring Isabel Stephenson? And I did. Of course. I wanted to join in the honoring. I had great admiration for her. And as luck would have it, I had a cookie deal going. Shout out to the cookies and this podcast branding. She says, no brainer. I scrawled Congratulations, Isabel Love, Kristin Chenoweth inside a card, stuck it in a great big old basket of cookies, and had the whole thing delivered to the event, which turned out to be, wait for it, Isabel's funeral. Then she talks about, like, we have to laugh at our own foibles and our mistakes. I said, you gotta fire that assistant. What?
- [80:50]
Alana Pena
That's what I said. I said, this seems like the assistant's fault. And she turned it. Bless. Bless her heart. To quote her. She turned it into this Whole thing of, like, I was so wrapped up in my career and my cookie deal and, like, all of my success that I wasn't paying attention. And I was like, you were doing your job, and your assistant called a funeral an event, and, like, and let.
- [81:11]
Chelsea Devontes
You send a basket of cookies.
- [81:14]
Alana Pena
Didn't do the research. Like, you don't do. That's the assistant's fault. Like, and I am so. I was an assistant for so long. It's how I got here. I love assistants. I believe that they work the hardest in Hollywood.
- [81:26]
Chelsea Devontes
But also, like.
- [81:27]
Alana Pena
Like, that was the assistant's fault.
- [81:30]
Chelsea Devontes
It was definitely the. It was almost as if it was, like, presented as a prank. Like, I don't even know how it all got so wrong. But in this chapter, this is kind of where she calls back to the cancel Culture. She says, I've come far enough to know I have a long way to go, but I don't want to get canceled while I'm learning. I don't want to leave my Christian sisters behind. So I think that's really the heart of it. Like, she doesn't want. If she makes a mistake, to lose her livelihood, and she doesn't want that to happen to people either. And this is where I just feel really sad that it. It. I don't know. I just feel the whole thing is just such a mess.
- [82:13]
Alana Pena
I know. And it felt so. The way she wrote it felt like we had been talking about Cancel Culture, the whole book. Like, it was, like, it's always on our mind. Like, it seems like it's very much on her mind, because I wasn't thinking about Cancel Culture. I was just, like, reading the book, and I. I literally put brackets, and I wrote what I. I don't. I. I feel like she lives in this, like, fear of being canceled, and it's. I don't.
- [82:39]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [82:40]
Alana Pena
And I just feel like.
- [82:41]
Chelsea Devontes
But you know what I think? I think maybe a lot of people do. And I also think, like, online shaming is very intense and out of control, and, like, it's happening, like, in high schools. Like, I think. I think when you hear it, it still sounds like maybe a political thing or a famous person thing, but it's sort of like, you know, it's when everyone says, like, you're the ugly poop girl at school, and now you gotta go to school, and everyone's calling you a poop girl. Do you know what I mean? It's that on the Internet, I wasn't called a poop girl. But I feel like this metaphor tracks.
- [83:14]
Alana Pena
I think Poop girl is a universal.
- [83:16]
Chelsea Devontes
It's a universal girl when you're ye it.
- [83:20]
Alana Pena
No, I, I mean, I recently deleted my Twitter. I bravely deleted my Twitter.
- [83:25]
Chelsea Devontes
Wow. Wow. Wow.
- [83:26]
Alana Pena
Just. And not really for any, like, emotion, like, not for any sort of radical reason. I just kind of was like spending too much time on it. But also it. It can get like, these corners can get toxic. And like when things and I, I. My friend and I were like, we'll do it for 24 hours and see how we feel. And that was Thanksgiving. And I, like, don't miss it. So, like, I do. The more well known you get, the more you worry about stuff like that. Like, I've definitely, like when I, when my show was coming out, I was like, oh my God, am I accidentally gonna, like, put something in it that, like. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you're gonna put something in the world that someone's gonna misinterpret. And it's just like you, it's. It's very. You, like, lay your soul bare. And with laying your soul bare comes scrutiny, and with scrutiny comes, in Christian's words, cancel culture. I think that when you're younger or have a little. Are leading with a little bit of fear, it's like that. That stops people, I think, from putting things out in the world.
- [84:22]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, absolutely. I guess maybe Kristen has like gone through stuff like that where it's like, that's just like part of, I guess, putting yourself out there now, which like, does fucking suck. Okay, let's get into her love story. Yes, Josh loved her love story with Josh. So he is part of a band called Backroad Anthem. And they have a really, really beautiful, deep story that they go through. But the way she meets him is she's at her niece's wedding and she said she just like sees him and she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so attracted to him. Blah, blah. And then she said, cougar is the kindest thing people say about a 50 year old woman who hooks up with a 36 year old man. And for some stupid reason that mattered to me at the time, there are so few people who resonate with me in that particular musical. It would have been wrong to pretend we'd never met, but I decided we should be friends. In 2018, my nephew got married. Once again, I was a weepy mess. All sunrise, sunset Swiftly flow the years When I heard an unmistakable stroke of genius on the guitar. Stop it. God, stop it. I suddenly remembered that I don't give a Crap what other people say about me and Josh and I have been together ever since.
- [85:33]
Alana Pena
Can I read?
- [85:33]
Chelsea Devontes
I love it.
- [85:34]
Alana Pena
My favorite, when she talks about when she first saw him, she goes, I felt a Frisian of talent turn on this thrill that goes through me whenever I see someone passionately practicing their art while also being hot.
- [85:48]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. I mean, I love this. I feel like you could put. You could like, we could use that to like find a mat like, that is. It is hot.
- [85:56]
Alana Pena
It is so hot. I loved it. And the fact that she dated Aaron Sorkin and now is like, they're engaged, right? Her and Jonas.
- [86:03]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, they're engaged and he like proposed to her while somewhere over the rainbow.
- [86:06]
Alana Pena
Place, like at the Rainbow. Rainbow Room. Like it was a very. It's so cute. They're so. I'm just really happy for her. It also made me as a single 31 year old woman be like, well, all the. That's where all the 30 something guys are. They're dating Kristin Chenowitz. Like, like, I can't complain.
- [86:22]
Chelsea Devontes
But also like, what a love story. She meets him at 50 and. And then doesn't get together with him till later and like gets engaged, I think at like 52. And like they've still, they're still like, the wedding is to come. I can't wait. It's. It'll be my royal wedding. And it's like, what an incredible love story of like when it happens, it happens, you know?
- [86:46]
Alana Pena
Yeah. And it just seems really. And I like that she was really candid about talking about quarantine and how she was nervous that they, that they wouldn't like make it. Like, she basically said, you know, we both have our own shit. And that's what I love about it. And in quarantine, we were stuck together and like. Cause I often think about quarantine specifically for like theater performers and live music performers. Like, that's really tough. Like Broadway shut down. Broadway never shuts down. And the fact that they like made it through and he just seems like a really good guy and a good match for her.
- [87:21]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. I mean, during quarantine they like go into the bathroom and like sing songs together. And I was like, yeah, you're a match. I know.
- [87:29]
Alana Pena
And I still love, I love that. Like, she was like, it was. We had this quiet. We had this time. And then she was still like. And when I got offered Candyland, I was like, see ya. Like, I need to go work again.
- [87:40]
Chelsea Devontes
Got a job. Which by the way, I've never seen the Candyland game show. And now I'm going to. But I did watch the Hulu series about the Girl Scout murders that she's the host of. Do you know what I'm talking about? Well, no, I'll just give this. I'm just not sure if you're super into. If you're super into, like, crime series, I would recommend it, but if you're not, don't. But basically, in Oklahoma, she was supposed to go on this Girl Scout trip, but she was too sick to go. And on this trip, some brutal murders happen. And Kristin Chenoweth goes back into the Oklahoma story and hosts this like six part series of what happened and the solving of those murders that on a trip she almost went on. Isn't that wild?
- [88:21]
Alana Pena
That's crazy.
- [88:22]
Chelsea Devontes
It's on Hulu. Yeah. And it came out last year and my friend Ally Louis, who's coming on the podcast, she like DM'd me about it and I was like, oh my.
- [88:28]
Alana Pena
Gosh, wait, I have to watch that.
- [88:30]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, now we're at the last chunk of the book. She tells the story of her biological mom and dad. And she said it was not for nothing that they called 1967 the Summer of Love. And Billy Etheridge was positioned to make the most of it. And you slowly start realizing this is her bio dad and he's a musician and he's in a group called the Chessmen. Horrible band title. And she says the Summer of Love abruptly cooled off when Billy and one of his bandmates both fell in love with the same free spirited stewardess. She turned up pregnant and didn't know which one of them was the father. This is her bio mom. Chessmen broke up, succumbing to the drama. But a truly great bass player is never unemployed for long. Billy was recruited by his friend Billy Gibbons to join the new band Gibbons was putting together after his Moving Sidewalks bandmates got drafted. The band was called Texas at first, and then Gibbons changed the name to ZZ Top.
- [89:33]
Alana Pena
Oh, really?
- [89:33]
Chelsea Devontes
So her, like, unreal. And then later her dad drops out of ZZ Top because he wants to bring an organ on the road. And they're like, no, you have to bring a keyboard. And he's like, then I have to go and quit. And then wildly, Billy and her bio mom stay together and they. She gives Kristin up for adoption and Billy and her bio mom get married. And they're married for, I think, 40 years.
- [90:08]
Alana Pena
And they have two other kids.
- [90:09]
Chelsea Devontes
They have two other kids. And she said when her mom gave her up for adoption, a lawyer facilitated it and Nurses took me away the moment I was born. They didn't even let her hold me. That's how it was back then. That is. That is so horrifying. And one of their other children, Jennifer Christopher, basically on her bio grandpa's dying bed, he tells Jennifer, there was another child that your parents gave up for adoption. And then her sister kind of starts to try and find her. And that's how Kristen, like, finally finds her adoptive parents. And when she meets her dad, she said, the day I met him, he had a hard time getting up off the couch, but he struggled upright and studied me with a gold flecked version of my own hazel eye. What's this note? He asked. And then he sang a clear, sustained. Hmm, that'd be a D, I said. He said, what about this? G sharp? Yup. He nodded his approval. She's mine. That's so sweet.
- [91:04]
Alana Pena
It's really sweet. And I always find it really funny when people talk about having perfect pitch, because it sounds like you're bragging, but it really is like a personality. It's like a fact about you. Like, she has perfect pitch. Like, she can recognize anything. And she had said it earlier in the book, and I almost was like, ugh, brag. Then I was like, oh, right. And then it's like she. It was sweet that that's, like, how she connected with her, like, biological dad, like, as he was, like, at the end of his life.
- [91:29]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. And she. She also, like, she does a really great job of sort of. She talks like she's like, you know, Billy's complicated nature. Before Billy died, he said to me with genuine sorrow, you got the best of me. They got the worst meaning their kids that they raised. And he struggled with substance abuse and a lot of his issues. You know, his kids, her siblings, like, grew up with. And she grew up with this adopted family, which I have to say, I've actually, I saw. I, like, was looking up interview clips and, like, the way her mom and her parents handled her adoption also made me cry where her mom would say to her, the woman who carried you in her stomach is your mom. But she knew she couldn't give you the life she wanted. And so now we get to raise you. And so it was never. It was just only taught to her as this, like, beautiful gift, you know, like, your bio mom is a gift, and this is a gift, and life is a gift. And there was never any, like. Cause a lot of really terrible baggage can come when teaching a child about adoption. And also, not all adoptions are as as adoption is just a very complicated, tricky practice. But yes, then in the end she says, oh, my God, there's just so much in this chapter. She says, I was born into a perfect storm, blessed with an innate musical ability, and raised by people who had zero expectations or preconceptions about what a life in music might entail. One might think it would be better for a musically inclined child to be raised with parents who were familiar and connected to the music industry. But in fact, my parents lack of knowledge in that area allowed me to evolve purely as myself, with no influences other than the role models I naturally gravitated to and embraced. We tend to think closure is about making peace with people from our past, but in practice, it's about making peace with ourselves. Did that get you?
- [93:26]
Alana Pena
Yeah, I put a bracket over that exact. I also found it really, it's so interesting to me that her biological parents were these like, passionate or her dad was this passionate musician and did not. It's like a very interesting nature versus nurture discussion because, like, didn't raise her, but she got his perfect pitch. And then she was raised by these just like parents in Oklahoma who didn't know anything about music. And she became Kristin Chenoweth. And it's just like, it's just a really, it's a nice lesson in parenting, I think too of just like, let your kid find their. Their thing and let your kid be open to it and let your kid like, don't push music if you're a musician. And I feel lucky because I. My family is very not artistic and I feel sort of like, I feel sort of like Kristin genuine. But I was like, supported when I was like listening to the 30 second clips of Wicked. Like, I was supportive when I was like, I want to take acting class. I was supported when I wanted to go to college and major in this like very, very, you know, not lucrative crazy. And I just, I'm like, it's interesting because then you also, like, Nepo, babies are such a big thing right now. And you look at that and it's just like, it's just a really, I don't know, let your kid just find their passion. Kristin just loved to sing.
- [94:41]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. And also support and honesty about your story and like how it just, you know, the, the like adoption and donor conception do have quite a bit of overlap, but also are also very, very different. But in the overlap, it's just like, there's a lot of adoptees who have really intense pain with this part of it. And it's like, oh, it's like such a. It's just such a sign that it's like, they're still studying it, but, like, maybe it's not a. Scientifically, like, you have to have horrific pain about this. Maybe it's possible that with the right support and tools from the very start, you can be Kristin Chin with. I'm unsure. I'm unsure. But it did give me a lot of, like, love and joy.
- [95:27]
Alana Pena
No, it's really an interesting, like, framing of it. I. Yeah, yeah. And it's. Can I. Sorry, I don't want to, like, make you cry, and if you don't want to answer this, you don't have to. But can I ask how your, like, how it was framed to you as a young age? Like, at a young age?
- [95:46]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Unfortunately, it was not told to me in the best way. You know, it wasn't my mom's intention for it to be like this, I don't think. But I found out when I was 14 or 15 years old, and I found out. It was kind of just brought up in conversation because my mom says that she actually had told me once before when I was four years old, after she divorced my dad. And apparently I took it great. I was just, like, cool. And so she thought I knew, but, like, I didn't retain any of that. So I found out when I was a teenager, and I had already had a really horrible relationship with my dad. I'd already had a stepdad whose last name I had taken on, and they were divorced. And so I already had, like, a really bad relationship with father figures before finding out. And then we know now that children don't really have the capacity to understand things like that. It has to be told to you every day. You've got to read books about it. The concepts of. I think one of the saddest parts of donor conception versus adoption is that with adoption, there's a story there. So before you know the story, you could fantasize that it's like, they really wanted me and, like, had to give me up, or they're out there searching for me, or, you know, they did, blah, blah, blah, lives, and so they can't have me. There's like, there's a story, there's a person, there's this. Parents, there's this. And stories are so important to identity and to learning and to knowing yourself. And with donor conception, it is a financial transaction, and it's so. It's like, there's, like, someone who's your parent, who's really not. And at the time in the, you know, 80s and 90s and the generations before were promised no one would ever fucking know, including the parents. Parents were like, we will never tell this kid that. You know, most of them, not all of them. And doctors were like, yeah, never tell them. And the people donating, they'd be like, this kid will never know. Like, they didn't have DNA testing then. They truly believed that that was how it was. So there's this, like, transactional hollow. Like, there's not really a parent to search for. There's just this, like. There's this, like. I don't know. It's really sad. It's really empty. And I really gave in to the fantasy of my bio dad and had to grow up and later learn that that's. See, this is the part that makes me so sad. I love it for Kristen, but there's no. I can't ever fully be positive, but I'm like, after. There's really not a happy ending for me almost ever. And I'm in a lot of donor communities now, and. And reuniting with your donor is sometimes the worst thing that's ever happened to people. So when she was writing about. You don't have to. That connection can be so. It's just like. And I have to be. I've done so much work to even say out loud I'm a donor kid, because it was a secret for a long time, and I think secrets ruin your life, and it ruined mine for sure. And I'm talking so much now. I'm so sorry. But I guess what I'm trying to say is. I'm trying to say is that the, like, I've done so much work to be open about this part of myself, and that's a huge part of my healing. But, like, I can't rush to. I was trying to rush. I thought I had. I don't know. It's just. Well, of course I just. I'm really not ready and I'm. And I have to, like. I have to, like, wait till I am. And reading about this really brought me a lot of, like, joy. Anyways, okay, let's read the very end because then we can cry about it some more. She said, you don't understand, baby girl, who you are and where you come from. Mama Lynn tells me I'm just an old squaw lady woman. You don't get it, but I kind of think I do. Or at least I have an inkling. I got thoughts. Even before I knew the facts of my DNA, I felt the choctaw and Cherokee blood in my veins. I felt myself drawn to the art of music of that culture and didn't feel free to claim it out loud. One has to be sensitive, politically correct. Where does this yellow haired girl get off appropriating that heritage? But where does anybody else get off taking it away from me? Why shouldn't we be allowed to just be whomever we damn well think we are or want to be or can't help being? The way I was allowed to evolve musically without expectations or limitations placed on us by parents, peers, or the cultural cicada choir. Then she says, I wonder if everything I don't know about my heritage somehow coincides with everything I've yet to discover about myself. Or if my Native American heritage is partially defined by the fact that so many of us have been disconnected from it. This is where closure gets dicey. On a superficial level. It's the opposite of being open at first glance. It's an ending instead of a beginning. Anyways. That also really was like, I mean, what an intense revelation.
- [100:43]
Alana Pena
Yeah, I mean, we've talked about this of like, who you are and what that means. And like, identity has been such a journey for me too. And it's very different, you know, from donor conception or adoption. But like, I lost my dad when I was really young and he was my like, Cuban side, which is a side that I like, really claim. And especially in this industry, you had. There's adjectives in front of what you are. And I think that's one of the reasons I was so nervous about my show coming out, because it was about a Cuban American family. And I was like, am I Cuban enough to be telling this story? Like, my Cuban father died.
- [101:18]
Chelsea Devontes
It's also like a devastating. It's a devastating notion, I think, that.
- [101:24]
Alana Pena
You would have to.
- [101:26]
Chelsea Devontes
Or think about that.
- [101:27]
Alana Pena
Nobody. It's so. And I do think it's really specific to entertainment. Like, I think about my brother who's like, worked in tech in Chicago, and he doesn't like, go around calling himself like, a Cuban American engineer. Like, it's so specific to entertainment, but through, like, time and age and therapy and good community, it's like your identity. No one can take that away from you. You are, you are, you. And I thought that that was. It was a beautiful, like, I. I'm just like, wow. I just thought Kristin Genoweth was like the girl who sang Taylor the Latte Boy, which is a lovely, fun musical theater song, but she's got a lot of things to say.
- [102:10]
Chelsea Devontes
I mean, like, I Was. I was in tears. Like, identity has been a horrific part of my struggle in life. And, like, I have found that the people who. Who are most stringent or horrible about you being who you are are the ones, like, struggling the most themselves.
- [102:31]
Alana Pena
Yep.
- [102:32]
Chelsea Devontes
It's.
- [102:32]
Alana Pena
It's people. It's that. God, this book makes you want to talk in, like, memes. It's that thing, like, hurt people. Hurt people.
- [102:37]
Chelsea Devontes
Totally, totally.
- [102:38]
Alana Pena
Like, and it's the people who are insecure and the people who. It's like, now that I'm. I am so proud of who I am. And I love talking about my now. It's like, it used to be something I was, like, scared to talk about because I was like, I'm gonna mess it up. I'm not gonna be something enough. And now it's like. Like, I would avoid, like, podcasts about, like, identity because I was like, oh, my God, like, what if I. What if I fuck it up? And now I'm like, let's kind of like me with grief too, where I love talking about grief, and it's, like, a really sad, twisted, tangled part of me, and I'm, like, obsessed with talking about it, but that takes time, and that takes growth.
- [103:17]
Chelsea Devontes
And also, the mess is what it is often. Do you know what I mean? Like, the mess is the answer. There's, like, the perfection doesn't really exist. And, like, oh, I just find that so inspiring. And, yes, I feel like. I actually. I feel very like. Because I wasn't allowed to say I was a donor kid for so long, I just could never, ever be myself. And now I feel like I'm on the journey to be myself. Okay, so we end every podcast with the booktool test. Three questions. Was the author vulnerable and did she share her truth?
- [103:53]
Alana Pena
I think yes.
- [103:54]
Chelsea Devontes
I actually think yes, too. Like, it is, like, covered in a big, sugary brownie, but it's. It's in there. And I also really love how protective she is of her adoptive story. And I've seen her on news clips where they're like, do you have a video of me, you, meeting your mom? And she'll be like, yep. And that's just for me. Thank you. Like, you know what I mean? Like, my pain is not your, you know, entertainment.
- [104:17]
Alana Pena
It's not going to be reunited with her on Oprah Morons. Yeah.
- [104:22]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, so then, second question. Was it entertaining to read?
- [104:27]
Alana Pena
Yes. I prefer the personal stories more than the memes. I don't love reading, like, Proverbs. And yes, as much as I love when someone Like, Like, I got really excited every time I saw that same image because I just. When she got personal and honestly, and I know we talked about this, neither of us have read her first book. I think her first book might be a little more. I think there's still like recipes and stuff in it, but it made me want to read her first book because I. Yeah. So I think. Yeah. So personal stuff. I love reading.
- [104:58]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes. I'm going to say yes to being entertaining to read because also the personal stories are so short and they pack such an intense punch. That was like, really entertaining. Okay, last question. Did reading this book elevate your life in any way?
- [105:14]
Alana Pena
I think I really did. I did some of the. I should do it. There was one thing where you have to write a note to yourself and put it in the pocket of a coat that you won't wear for a while. And I wrote myself a little note and I was waiting because I was like, I don't want to rip out a page of the book, but I'm.
- [105:32]
Chelsea Devontes
Going to do it.
- [105:33]
Alana Pena
And I think that it will continue to elevate my life.
- [105:37]
Chelsea Devontes
I love that you. Yes. Yes. There's really not a lot of openly donor conceived public figures. I actually cannot name one that has extensively talked about it like this. There's this book, Inheritance, that is about it. But there's so much, so much shame and cloaked secrecy around the donor committee that seeking out information and help in your journey is often quite hard. And my favorite way to get that is through celebrity memoirs. So even though adoption is not the same, I mean, I cried when I read this book. I'm crying now. I'll continuously cry. And I think they're talking about the journey to find who made you I really needed.
- [106:22]
Alana Pena
Right.
- [106:23]
Chelsea Devontes
Well.
- [106:24]
Alana Pena
And what it means for someone to make you and what that. How that can have different, you know, that means different things. That I finally understand the text graphic picture. But. But I, I thought it was so beautiful and I, I feel really, like, grateful that I got to read this with you because I feel like I, you know, I'm holding your hand through this and I'm here and I love you and it was a beautiful way to learn more about you.
- [106:51]
Chelsea Devontes
I love you so much and thank you so much for coming on and please tell everyone where they can find you and follow you and support your work. She's a prolific creator. Also, this was in the news. You're like rewriting Working Girl, which is one of the greatest movies of all fucking time, I believe with Selena Gomez. Right.
- [107:07]
Alana Pena
Yes. Selena Gomez is producing. I am writing the reboot of Working Girl.
- [107:10]
Chelsea Devontes
Come on. That is one of Go follow Alana.
- [107:14]
Alana Pena
That is one of the things I hope she'll be in it. That's one of the things I have to do today. I don't have Twitter anymore, famously, but I'm on Instagram as well. Instagram. Lan Instagram. And watch my show on Disney, even though it got canceled, it's two seasons and I think it'll make, you know, it's a little warm hug. So. And yeah, thank you for having me.
- [107:38]
Chelsea Devontes
Thank you so much for coming on it. A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Homm, and our amazing associate producer, Jiren Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm, where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now, you, you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code TRASH. That's right, trash T R A S H. Two audiobooks for the price of 1 at Libro FM. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.