Ione Skye’s Memoir Say Everything (with Chelsea Davison)

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Ione Skye’s Memoir Say Everything (with Chelsea Davison)
Release Date: March 4, 2025
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Ione Skye
Duration: Approximately 2 hours and 10 minutes

---

Introduction and Guest Background

In this heartfelt episode of Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast, host Chelsea Devantez welcomes actress and writer Ione Skye to discuss her newly released memoir, Say Everything. The memoir offers an intimate glimpse into Ione's life, navigating the highs and lows of Hollywood fame, personal relationships, and self-discovery.

Notable Quote:
Chelsea Devantez (03:30): "Ione made her film debut opposite Keanu Reeves in River's Edge, but you probably know her most from her iconic role as Diane Court in the 1989 classic rom-com Say Anything."

Building Connections: Chelsea and Ione’s Friendship

Chelsea and Ione reminisce about their shared history as writers on Jordan Klepper's The Opposition. They recount humorous anecdotes about their similar names causing initial misunderstandings, which eventually blossomed into a strong, lifelong friendship.

Notable Quote:
Ione Skye (05:11): "Let me give your bio... Chelsea is an Emmy-nominated writer performer who co-hosts the podcast Pod Struck a Romcom Rewind."

Diving into Say Everything

Chelsea expresses her initial skepticism about the memoir, mentioning her limited familiarity with Ione beyond her early films. However, as they delve deeper, Chelsea admits being thoroughly captivated by the depth and honesty of Ione's stories.

Notable Quote:
Chelsea Devantez (07:18): "It felt like Forrest Gump, where every page there's another cameo from some influential rock star or actor."

Themes of Class and Nepotism in Hollywood

Ione's memoir sheds light on the intricate class dynamics within Hollywood, particularly focusing on her experience as a "nepo kid"—children of famous individuals navigating their own paths amidst privilege and expectation. The memoir highlights the challenges of feeling perpetually overshadowed by a famous parent and the struggles of forging an independent identity.

Notable Quote:
Ione Skye (12:09): "We have a huge class system. Yes, absolutely."

Complex Relationships and Sexuality

A significant portion of the memoir explores Ione's tumultuous romantic relationships, including her interactions with prominent figures like Anthony Kiedis and Adam Levine. These relationships often involved significant age gaps, substance abuse issues, and emotional complexities that deeply impacted her personal growth and self-esteem.

Notable Quote:
Chelsea Devantez (26:50): "You can't consent if you're 15. Your brain isn't cooked."

Navigating Trauma and Self-Forgiveness

Ione confronts her past traumas, including emotional abuse, underage relationships, and substance abuse. The memoir is not just a recounting of events but also a journey towards self-forgiveness and understanding, highlighting the importance of releasing past burdens to foster personal growth.

Notable Quote:
Ione Skye (122:21): "Writing this book has been my way of surrendering my past as well as an act of self forgiveness."

Insights into 90s Hollywood Life

The memoir provides an insider’s perspective on the 90s Hollywood scene, describing interactions with various celebrities and the often-blurred lines between personal and professional lives. Ione details the lifestyle, camaraderie, and the perpetual allure of fame that defined her generation.

Notable Quote:
Chelsea Devantez (36:36): "The fact that people in this book forget their own humanity at times and think of themselves as a brand is very relevant now."

Comparisons with Other Celebrity Memoirs

Ione and Chelsea discuss how Say Everything interweaves with other celebrity memoirs covered on the podcast, creating a rich tapestry of interconnected stories. This interplay highlights the shared experiences and divergent paths of individuals within the same glamorous yet challenging industry.

Notable Quote:
Ione Skye (18:29): "So many people in this book also have their own memoirs, some of which we've read on this podcast. It's like my Marvel Avengers."

Key Moments and Personal Reflections

Throughout the conversation, Chelsea and Ione highlight pivotal moments from the memoir, such as Ione’s film debut, her complex relationship with Anthony Kiedis, and her journey towards embracing her bisexuality. These discussions reveal the raw emotions and critical turning points that shaped Ione’s life and career.

Notable Quote:
Ione Skye (103:11): "I wanted to fuck Keanu Reeves. She pulled him into the shower."

Self-Forgiveness and Personal Growth

The memoir culminates in Ione’s acceptance and self-forgiveness, emphasizing the transformative power of storytelling. By sharing her truths, Ione not only heals herself but also empowers others to confront and embrace their own pasts.

Notable Quote:
Ione Skye (122:21): "Writing this book has been my way of surrendering my past as well as an act of self forgiveness."

Conclusion and Encouragement

Chelsea and Ione conclude the episode by reflecting on the profound impact of Say Everything, urging listeners to explore their own journeys of self-discovery and forgiveness. They also invite listeners to join their Patreon for exclusive content and deeper dives into similar memoirs.

Notable Quote:
Ione Skye (123:07): "This book elevated my life in so many ways. One is that she loses everything twice... And I need memoirs like that because... you're gonna lose yourself again because everything feels so scary and horrible sometimes."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [12:09] Ione Skye: "We have a huge class system. Yes, absolutely."
• [26:50] Chelsea Devantez: "You can't consent if you're 15. Your brain isn't cooked."
• [74:13] Ione Skye: "I think you can have both celebrating the fact that they did give their best and they gave love and they get all this, and also acknowledging where they made wrong choices."
• [103:11] Ione Skye: "I wanted to fuck Keanu Reeves. She pulled him into the shower."
• [122:21] Ione Skye: "Writing this book has been my way of surrendering my past as well as an act of self forgiveness."

---

Final Thoughts:

This episode of Glamorous Trash offers a comprehensive and emotionally charged exploration of Ione Skye's memoir, Say Everything. Through candid conversations and insightful reflections, Chelsea Devantez and Ione Skye illuminate the intricate dynamics of Hollywood life, the challenges of personal growth amidst fame, and the enduring quest for self-forgiveness. Whether you’re a fan of celebrity memoirs or interested in the deeper narratives behind public personas, this episode provides valuable perspectives and compelling storytelling.

---

Transcript

[Chelsea Dev]

You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries.

[Ione Skye]

You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first. Your data is like gold to hackers and they'll sell it to the highest bidder. Are you protected? McAfee helps shield you blocking suspicious texts, malicious emails and fraudulent websites. McAfee Secure VPN lets you browse safely and its AI powered tech scam detector spots threats instantly. You'll also get up to $2 million of award winning antivirus and identity theft protection, all for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com, cancel anytime. Terms apply. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dive into all of the glamour and all of the trash. I'm your host, Chelsea Dev, TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author. And sometimes I'm in stuff too. And today we're reading the memoir of actor and writer Ione sky titled say Everything. A memoir published today, March 4th. Hot off the presses. We had early copies. Thank you. Thank you so much to the publishers. Now, Ione made her film debut opposite Keanu Reeves in River's Edge, but you probably know her most from her iconic role as Diane court in the 1989 classic Rom com say Anything. Ione has also been in just so many things, films and TV like Zodiac, Arrested Development and Beef. The moment you see your face, you're gonna be like, oh my God, Ione Sky. And if you subscribe to us on Patreon or Apple podcast subscriptions, we have a bonus interview just for subscribers where Ione and I talk about this memoir. And I just. I'm obsessed with her. I'm obsessed with this book. We Discuss Madonna relationships, 90s fever dream, Hollywood years. So much for me, it was an incredible conversation. So after you finish this episode, head over to Patreon to hear the full inter with Ione Sky. Once you sign up, the episodes just come to your podcast app. They also come ad free. You get a bunch of perks or just go to Apple Podcasts and become a subscriber. Episodes are right there. I adored this book. I loved it and so did my guest. So this is going to be a really long episode because we cannot wait to talk about it. Last month, the episode I could not wait to talk about was Griffin Dunn's memoir, also a subscriber one. And this month it is this book. I loved it, so let's dive in. But quick trigger warning for drug use, underage relationships and abuse. This book came into my life at the perfect moment. So let's dive in. What do you want?

[Chelsea Dev]

My father's guilty.

[Ione Skye]

He lied to me.

[Chelsea Dev]

He lied to everybody. I just left home. I need you.

[Ione Skye]

You do? Everything else means nothing to me. If I hurt you again, I'll die.

[Chelsea Dev]

Hurt me again?

[Ione Skye]

You're not a chance. Don't worry about it.

[Chelsea Dev]

I love you.

[Ione Skye]

What? I love you. How many more times do I have to say it?

[Chelsea Dev]

One more time would be nice. I love you.

[Ione Skye]

Our guest today is another Chelsea, and her last name starts with a D. It's Chelsea Davison. Hi.

[Chelsea Dev]

Hello.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, let me give your bio. Chelsea is an Emmy nominated writer performer who co hosts the podcast Pod Struck a Romcom Rewind. I was just on their show talking about one of my favorite movies, Love and Basketball. Recently, Chelsea wrote on both seasons of the Seth McFarland Show. Ted. She was the head writer for NBC's A Little Late with Lilly Singh, was part of the monologue team for the Tonight show starring Jimmy Fallon, and was a primary cast member on the reboot of Mad tv. But I know her from a little stent working on Jordan Klepper's the Opposition on Comedy Central, which we were both writers on a million years ago.

[Chelsea Dev]

Hi. Hello. I feel like it's crazy that that show, it was such a brief chapter in both of our careers, but it was so impactful for me, especially based on the people I met. Like you.

[Ione Skye]

Same.

[Chelsea Dev]

Like Chelsea was at my bachelorette party.

[Ione Skye]

Like you're my wedding.

[Chelsea Dev]

It just. I feel like I met people and I'm like, I only knew you for a couple of months, but lifelong friend. Check.

[Ione Skye]

Life long friends. Also, I am so happy that you are a guest for this book because I just really need to be talking about this with a. With a good friend and not a stranger. So I'm, yes, really excited. But first, you know, I introduce all my guests with the story of how we first met. So I do this to highlight. Meet cute female friendships. Like, how do you make a new friend? If you don't want to hear this story, you just want to hear about the book. Skip ahead five minutes. But Chelsea, are how we met stories, like, a tiny bit tricky. So I'm thinking maybe I'll say my side and then maybe fill in. Because I just want to be. I want to be respectful of those involved, but I also want to tell this really fucking hilarious story.

[Chelsea Dev]

Please. Yes, absolutely.

[Ione Skye]

So it is the first day working on the Opposition with Jordan Klepper. It had a really intense application process. There were like three different rounds. So we've all kind of like made it to this moment where we are hired to be comedy writers on this late night show. And I walk in and both of us, we have really similar names. Chelsea Devonta is Chelsea Davison. And so we're already know, we're going to be like seated next to each other. People are going to confuse our names. And I say hi to you and I can tell you're just a little wary of me, where you're just like, hello. And I can tell there's just something where you're like, I don't know if I should trust this woman. And we somehow end up pushing past that. And I found out through me and another girl maybe hanging out or dating the same guy, somehow this woman had told you that one of your new comedy co workers, me, was a sneaker model.

[Chelsea Dev]

Okay, so here's my side of it. Okay, okay, okay. So, yeah, you're right. There was all these different rounds of packets, they call them, where you, you know, are doing sample writing, basically scripts for the show. And it was all blind entries. So it wasn't even like a thing where you could have gotten hired based on who you knew based off of.

[Ione Skye]

Being a sneaker model.

[Chelsea Dev]

No, you couldn't have. Even so it wasn't like, how dare they. Whatever. So I had been told. At least I think I had. I'm like, maybe I misunderstood this whole thing. But someone you had dated. I worked with someone who dated them and they were like, it's crazy. She is like a comedy writer, but like, she's like a sneaker model. And I think this is because you had posted stuff.

[Ione Skye]

I had posted a joke, a joke photo of me wearing a pair of sneakers. And I called myself a sneaker model because guess what, y'all, that's not a real job. Well, it can't be. It's just shoes. Anyone can wear shoes.

[Chelsea Dev]

She believed it. I believed it. It was just this thing where I was like, I mean, I guess like, she must be good, but this is such a weird combination that I just really was like, you're right, wary. And it turns out it was all wrong.

[Ione Skye]

It's funny because I think once we got past that, we became really close friends.

[Chelsea Dev]

I would say I remember, like, even later that day being like, instantly because you're so funny that it's so clear, like, you are a comedian. You know what I mean?

[Ione Skye]

I. I hadn't snuck on, right?

[Chelsea Dev]

You weren't like, trying improv for the first time and snuck through, like, God bless.

[Ione Skye]

Well, listen, it's Now a really funny story. So let's get into this book. So I wanted to have you on the podcast no matter what, but also you have this new podcast where you discuss rom coms. And Ione sky is, I mean, say anything, a classic, classic rom com. And so this felt like the perfect fit. Tell me, what did you think of the book?

[Chelsea Dev]

So I was kind of blown away by the book. I was shocked. I feel like my jaw was, like, open, like, the whole time. Basically. I had seen say anything years ago in high school and then have just rewatched it. And Ione sky didn't really leave a lasting impact to me. No offense, but it's just, you know, girl from the 80s whose face I kind of don't recognize anymore. Just pretty girl, ingenue. She even says in the book that, like, I did what I was supposed to do, which is just be an ingenue. Don't be too complicated. Just smile and be pretty.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

And so it didn't leave that much of an impact. And so when you said we were gonna do this book, I was kind of confused. I'm like, what does she even have to tell? Like, she was in one or two movies. Like, what is this bitch going to talk about?

[Ione Skye]

Isn't it incredible then to be like, she has the story of a motherfucking century.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's crazy. It felt like Forrest Gump, where, like, every page there's another cameo from some, like, influential rock star or actor. It's like everyone just drops in. She's sleeping with everyone. She's the connector of all pop culture, apparently.

[Ione Skye]

Completely agree. It's also my theme of the podcast. It's a theme of the podcast where you're like, what's this bitch about? And then you're like, oh, she's everything. She's the beginning and the end of my heart. She is the stars and the moon.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes.

[Ione Skye]

And the central force that I now define womanhood by completely.

[Chelsea Dev]

I, like, feel now mad on her behalf that she is playing these ingenues where I'm like, Your story is 10 billion times more interesting than these, like, little girl innocent parts you're playing.

[Ione Skye]

Totally. And and so speaks to the roles of Vale back then. Okay, so let's dive into. I'm so happy you feel that way, because I. I mean, this is one of my favorite reads and a really, really long time. And so I was so curious if it was that for you. But at the. The book begins with her origin story, which is important, which is that her dad is Donovan. Must be the Season of the witch Must be the season of the witch. The Donovan famous rock star who her mom is with for a small period of time, enough to have two children. And then he abandons them, goes back to a different woman that he had loved on the road. And her mom had had this dream of being, like, wife of a rock star that is just crushed. And Ione's life is obviously never the same because they're always sort of the forgotten family of Donovan, because Donovan has this other family, and they have these, like, stepdads, and Enid's like, a single mom who's never single. Enid is Ione's mom, and they're living in Hollywood. And one of my favorite themes throughout the book is that she is the daughter of a famous guy. She is that sort of nepo kid. But she's in this lane of like, yes, but we are the poor kids whose fathers abandoned them. But I'm also friends with the kids whose fathers didn't abandon them. And they go to the good school in Hollywood, and I go to the public school next door. Cause my father won't acknowledge me.

[Chelsea Dev]

I was so interested by that because it's this reminder that even in America, where we're kind of like, we don't have a class system, whatever, just still having certain last names, being the children of certain people, you do have this kind of access to this. A little bit of aristocracy where all of her friends are also children of famous people. They're all rock star kids. Even though she's talking about living in an apartment and things like that, that I. I think of money buying you access. Like, in America, it's not about your name, it's about that. But it's like, turns out it's about both.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, psych. We have a huge class system. Yes, absolutely. And this was, like, this little niche inside the upper echelon of that top class you want to get into. And then getting to read about the bottom of that class was so fascinating. And there's so many stories. This is a book I just think you have to read. But her mom has gone through a couple of marriages, and she's in middle school. And one of the chapters is titled Birth of a Social Climber, which I love. And she owns it. And she's like, yes, I loved watching from afar, calculating and being like, I need to become friends with that person. And the people she needs to become friends with are called the Aprils, because there's multiple of them.

[Chelsea Dev]

Right. But I do love that there's two Aprils. And then one other girl. It's so. Heather's. It's so perfect.

[Ione Skye]

And it's of the year. Yeah. Of the year when that would be taking place, which is. Wait, she wrote the year of this chapter. Hold on. Birth of a social climber is 1980 to 1983. And then one of the April's invites are over and is like, give me a massage. And she's giving her a massage, and she's sort of experiencing her sexuality. Of like, am I. I think I'm interested in women.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah.

[Ione Skye]

And. But then it's like, still kind of two little kids playing at it in a way. And finally, the other April is like, we gotta quit it with the bi stuff. Like, that's gross.

[Chelsea Dev]

Ew.

[Ione Skye]

And I only, like, locks it away. Not forever. It's coming back. But she locks it away for some time.

[Chelsea Dev]

I resonated with this because growing up was very confused. Like, one story I tell that I've told my friends now, that is so humiliating, but is, I think, very revealing and I guess, sweet, but also creepy is I was at camp and there was this girl who was so hot, I was like. It shook me to my core that I'm like, how what? But, but girl. But how. But me? But. But I like you not a boy.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, but so hot.

[Chelsea Dev]

But, yeah, you not a boy and, like, half big boobs. And I'm like, I just want to look at them and touch them. And so I was like, I don't know, 10 or 11. Like, younger. Like, she was older at the camp and I was younger, and I had a disposable camera. And my move at the time when I saw, like, hot boys or hot girls, whatever, was I would say, oh, my God. Hi. You look so much like my friend or my cousin back home. It is crazy. You look so much like him. Could I take your picture so that I could show them when I get home? It's so crazy. You guys should be twins. And I would take the picture, and then I would just have a picture of a hot person that I loved.

[Ione Skye]

Chelsea, the fact that you were 10 years old running this level of game, I'm in awe of you. You were like, I know how to get these baddies, but not actually get them.

[Chelsea Dev]

Just, like, lock it away and be like, whatever feeling. Now I can access this later if.

[Ione Skye]

I develop it at the local Walmart. I will stare at them in my bedroom.

[Chelsea Dev]

Wow.

[Ione Skye]

I love that story. Thank you for sharing that. It's. Yeah, absolutely. You. When you're a little kid and you're confused. I think also, obviously, even now, there's not a lot of information, but definitely when we were growing up, and then Ione, even earlier, like, there's no information about, like, bisexuality or homosexuality or anything. Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

The fact that she was like, But I still really like boys. Like, I had the same thought where I'm like, well, I'm. I'm obviously straight. And even, like, my friend who was bi was like, it sounds like you're bi. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm straight. I just am sexually attracted to some girls. And she's like, that's bi.

[Ione Skye]

Okay.

[Chelsea Dev]

Absolutely not. I still identify as straight because I haven't learned my lesson.

[Ione Skye]

Funny. Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's just a confusing time. But I really related to that of, like, kind of having the feelings and then being like, I think I just idolized them. I'm gonna tuck that away.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. Let me just fold that away for later. Well, which is what Ione does, and she just keeps living life. And we have to. This is one of these Forrest Gump tangents. So she's living in Hollywood, and she said, you know, I'd ride the bus home and I would slouch behind and blast Kate Bush on Billy's Walkman or read a page or two of Eve's Hollywood by Eve Babbitts. Eve was our next door neighbor and one of mom's friends. Until recently, I hadn't known she was a famous writer, just that she was messy and twinkly, drove a bummy car and once fell asleep with a lit cigarette that almost burnt her house down. Billie saw the smoke and flames and pulled Eve to safety. Billy is her stepdad, who is much younger than her mom, and surprise, a porno director. Yeah, she said. Then I discovered Eve's books when Hollywood High was making me blue and I needed to fall in love with LA again. Eve was one of the great literary protectors of Los Angeles, writing about it as a place full of mystery and unexpectedness. The way that Joan Didion spoke for the naysayers of Los Angeles, Eve spoke for the lovers of the city, which was actually harder to do. Okay. As someone who just tried to read about Eve and Joan Didion, this was the writing I needed. Ione perfectly contextualized these two famous writers who were somewhat like nemesis friends. So it's just a little tangent in this episode that I just had to touch. But basically everyone famous lives around her on her street. Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

And that continues for her whole life. She. The way she talks about la, she's like, and this person lives down the street, and mom was here, and my friend, this famous person was here. I'm like, how are you all? Like, I guess real estate was cheaper back then. But I'm like, I. I don't live near anybody I know.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We're so much more spread out, which is because homes have. I was going to say quadrupled in price, but I need a larger. I need a larger number. It's like they're like 10 times more expensive to even rent. But the best part about this book. Not the best part. One of the parts I love about this book is that so many people in this book also have their own memoirs, some of which we've read on this podcast. Like Kathleen Hannah. So this is like my Marvel Avengers. Like, you can spin off and read Moon Unit Zappa's memoir. You can read Matthew Perry's memoir. You can read Anthony Kiedis memoir. All the characters in this book also have memoirs, which is.

[Chelsea Dev]

Listen, do they mention her? I mean, I assume Anthony definitely has to, but.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, yeah, he does. Kathleen does, but not by name. Okay, we have to talk about Donna, who is Ione's older brother and such an enigmatic figure in her life. He is like the prom king and a model and almost a famous actor. But then, like, she's actually more famous. But he is both beloved and hated. Like, later in the book, Madonna is going to be like, oh, that's your brother. I fucking hate that guy. And Ione's like, you either loved my brother or you hated him. And he is like this. Yeah, this magical figure in Ione's life where he is responsible for, like, 15 massive moments in her life. And it. I don't know, it was just so beautiful. Have an older brother, like, looking out for you like that, you know, it was very cool.

[Chelsea Dev]

I kind of expected. And I know life isn't like. Like a movie, but I was expecting there to be some kind of arc with Donno where maybe they'd have a falling out or there'd be some kind of thing, but he's just her literal and figurative bro the whole time. He just helps her, and she loves him, and he's kind of a kook a lot of the time, but he is also dating everyone famous in Hollywood.

[Ione Skye]

We're going to get into those stories, and I can't fucking wait. But first, this is how Ione gets her big break. My brother pulled a script from his messenger bag and tossed it onto my bed. I glanced at the COVID page. River's Edge by Neil Jimenez. I didn't get the part, said Donno. But they want you to read for the female lead. The director is Tim Hunter, who wrote over the Edge. Really? We loved that movie about teenage rebels who wrecked their cookie cutter community. But I didn't get it. How did they know about me? I showed them your picture in LA Weekly, said Donna, the born connector, looking psyched. One of mom's many photographer friends had shot the LA Weekly Christmas gift Guide in our living room using Donno and me as free models for the what to get your clothes horse piece. I'd worn a body hugging silver knit dress with a flamenco ruffle running up the side. In the full page picture, I was pressed against a Fabio lookalike. And then I guess, like in this like gift guide, he's like, here, this is my sister. And they said that girl should be the lead of this movie. And you know, at this point I'm going, what? Like, this is so far from anything I've ever known in life. You, like, love it. And it's also so painful to know that that existed at one point in time as an option again.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's like in the way real estate, I guess cost $5 back then. Also, I'm like, casting directors were just sort of like, oh, you have a pretty sister. Bring her in. I don't care if she has an agent hired. Like, it was just a free for all, apparently.

[Ione Skye]

I know. And the craziest part is that she gets it first audition, she does it, she books the lead. She is opposite Keanu Reeves, who she has a massive crush on. We're going to get into it. And at the end of this chapter, she says she needs to get emancipated because in Hollywood it was just like, oh yeah, get emancipated. That way you can work full days as an adult. Like, no big deal.

[Chelsea Dev]

I thought that was so crazy.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. She's like, hey, mom, I need to get emancipated so like, I can go to work. I'm obviously dropping out of school. And her mom said, don't go. Moving out. Mom nervously joked as we signed the paperwork in the lawyer's office. Of course not. I said, I'm still a kid. Famous last words.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh God, so good.

[Ione Skye]

She's just casually emancipated, but lives at home. It's just so she can do the movie. And she has a huge crush on Keanu. And I wrote my notes on these pages are Keanu erotica. So I just, I just like to Read some of them. Okay. So it doesn't start hot, but okay. He's like. So I forgot we. We have a kiss in this scene. He bumbled in his charming, stilted way and, well, I ate an onion. Sorry. That's okay, I said, a little confused. We stopped on Clarissa's front porch and I turned to face him, an assistant holding a light meter to my upturned chin. Keanu bent as if to kiss me without kissing me, and I breathed him in sharp and a little sweet. A raw onion? I asked. Yeah, he said through tight lips. Just add a couple bites. Like an apple?

[Chelsea Dev]

I asked.

[Ione Skye]

He nodded. Okay, we have to pause yours.

[Chelsea Dev]

I underlined that whole thing as well, because the eating it like an apple is crazy. And it. It's like, that's exactly what I would expect Keanu Reeves to be doing.

[Ione Skye]

And he's a. You know, they're both teenagers, so it's so funny to see his personality, like, as a teen here. She, meanwhile, is like, I have a crush on him. I can't wait till we kiss. She's counting down the days. Here's the kissing scene. Like, here we are, we're gonna fall in love. And he's like, not only did I forget, but I bit an onion like an apple seconds ago, did nothing about it, and then they kissed.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, it's. It's amazing. Also, I have to say. Obviously, Keanu Reeves is a very good looking person still. But I had forgotten how hot he was. Seeing the photos of him, here I was. I was shocked again, my jaw dropped by how hot he was.

[Ione Skye]

Did you have the urge to tell him that he looked just like your cousin and you needed to take a picture?

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes. Yes. My disposable camera was ready. I was like.

[Ione Skye]

You look just like a friend of mine. No, he is so, so hot. And I love her grasp on her sexuality through this book. Both when she's unsure of it, when she's finding it, when she's exploring, like in this moment, you know. They had their kiss and she said, can I come to your place after rap? I said, yes, bitch.

[Chelsea Dev]

Get it?

[Ione Skye]

And he's like, yeah, come on over. We lay on sides of his mattress and I ran my hands over Keanu's smooth back as he kissed my face and neck. I felt both shy and proud of my body, my soft skin and full breasts and my pretty peach Calvin Klein bra. I knew I was nice looking, but wished I were the most beautiful girl in the world. This might have been the most beautiful boy. He was different from any boy I'd known self possessed and calm. I wanted to feel his weight on me, to be crushed under his long body. But when I tried to maneuver him on top of me, he wouldn't budge. Let me drive you home, he said abruptly, pulling up my bra strap. Why had he stopped? Maybe he thought I was too young. Maybe he just wanted to take it slow. Who knew? Sometimes he seemed almost alien. Not unfeeling, just tuned into different cues and frequencies than us humans. This is such beautiful, right? It's like one is, like, hot, but then it's layered. But then it's like she's describing a Keanu that I feel like we all recognize, which is, like, attuned to different frequencies.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes, but. Okay, I have a little bonus pick with this.

[Ione Skye]

Please, please.

[Chelsea Dev]

So, okay, this is addressed at the very end in the epilogue, but her. Her daughter. Spoiler alert. She has a daughter named Kate. Kate ends up being like, I hope you, like, share how messy these relationships were, specifically with Anthony Kiedis. But, like, I think it applies to a lot of the relationships in the book. And Ione sky is like, yeah, of course. I'm not gonna leave out the drugs and whatever. And she's like, no, the age gaps, the fact that you were a child, like, hooking up with adults. And this is the thing. Like, obviously, Keanu was not as much older as some of the people in this. But again, as we're talking about her owning her sexuality, the fact that at this point, she is a minor. She is a virgin. Oh, no, actually, she's not a virgin. She had bad sex with, like, some dude named Crew, which feels like all of our stories. Right? Right. Not technically a virgin, but, like, you haven't had good sex yet, so you're kind of like, I don't know what to do. But it just. I felt like she was always describing these things in these very romantic ways that are playful and, you know, maybe that is how she thinks of it. But I guess I wanted a little bit more of that lens of an adult. The way I look back at. The way I played at being an adult when I was young. And I look back now with horror sometimes.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

And. And so I wanted a little bit of that to, you know, for there to be like, maybe it was because I was so young. Thank God. Like, I'm glad he didn't want to hook up with a 15 or 16 year old.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, all right. This is a great point, because I. I thought they were the same. It didn't occur to me that they weren't the same age. Because they're both teenagers in this movie and they're both playing the same age. I just looked up their age. So she is 50 teen in this moment and he is 21.

[Chelsea Dev]

Which it's not as egregious as other relationships.

[Ione Skye]

Egregious. Yeah, it's crazy. So then you're like, now I'm looking at this, thrilled this bitch is least making half the right decision. And I'm talking about Kiara right now. Like, he's being like, no, this is too far. And this is her saying, I'm too young. I get it now. Because in her previous virginity loss scene, she does recognize, I'm too young for this. And she says it in the book. She's like, I'm too young, I'm too young, I'm too young. But the guy pushes forward anyway. But here, I didn't know he was 21.

[Chelsea Dev]

Basically, every romantic relationship she has during these years where she is a teenager, they're all inappropriate. They're all inappropriate.

[Ione Skye]

Yes. Okay, wait, this brings me to a section of the book I fucking loved. And here's where I. Here's how I think she does address it. Okay? She talks about dating Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers, okay? And she said flea was 24 to my 16. And I think our age difference bothered him good. Flea, I couldn't figure. But this is, this is what I loved. Because when she writes about pursuing Keanu, and she also writes when she's like, not pursuing the person, but it's happening anyway, I think she's speaking to that experience. When you think you are an adult, when you're a teenage girl, you're like, no, I'm in control here. And she said, I couldn't figure out why guys made such a big deal about my age. To my mind, it was perfectly normal for the man to be older sometimes by a lot. One of my favorite movies was Woody Allen's Manhattan. Woody Allen, you sick. Okay. I was 8 when it came out in theaters and 12 the first time I saw on VHS. In it, a 42 year old Woody Allen playing a version of himself and 16 year old Marielle Hemingway playing his girlfriend Tracy. And it is about her being in high school and being like, but I love you. And he's like, and she dreams of being in a Woody Allen movie. And then also she talks about the movie Pretty Baby when Brooke Shields is 12 years old, fully nude on camera, playing a sex worker, and how her takeaway had been, if you are beautiful, you will always be taken care of. And so for me, I'm like, yes, these fucked up movies made by these fucking pieces of shit. Woody Allen shaped culture, shaped her into thinking these relationships were okay. Shaped these men into being like a little young. But I'll.

[Chelsea Dev]

I'll proceed right I. That page, that Woody Allen passage I wrote. Eek. On the page because it's just so clearly a red flag. But I think we were all kind of brainwashed into this because I remember being of that same mindset. I remember watching TRL when I was 12 and Carson Daly making a comment about like, well, you know, there are 12 year olds who emulate some of this, you know, stuff from Britney Spears and the sexuality and being like, I'm 12 and I'm an adult. Like, what are you talking about, 12 year olds? Like that.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, my God, yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

Being 15, having a crush on like someone who worked with my dad who was 35, and it didn't go anywhere, thank God. But like, you know what I mean? Like very much flirting and wearing low cut tops and really trying to play it being an adult. And it's just, if I wrote a memoir, I would not be talking about these things as romantic. Like, she's talking about Flea, as if he's this great guy and you know, all of these men, for the most part, as. As if they are these really nice guys. I feel like it's disingenuous a little bit. And maybe she still hasn't quite reckoned with the fact that whether or not she felt in control, she wasn't in control. And that is a big thing that I think. I don't know. It's like you, you can't consent if you're 15. Your brain isn't cooked.

[Ione Skye]

Listen, I think this is a beautiful point. As you were saying trl, I was just thinking of Aaliyah sitting next to R. Kelly. And the album is titled Age Ain't Nothing But a Number, and everyone's giving it a thumbs up. I think what I attune to in this book is and, and, and the struggle I think a lot of people have even listening to this podcast, I'm sure sometimes is like, we yell about stuff. Is that what do you do when you lived through a moment where every piece of context around you, every adult, every magazine, every movie, every. Everything gave you a culture that you believed and you partook in. And she had choices of things she's proud of, things she's not proud of, but that's how she felt at the time. And how do you go back and unlive an experience that is still true in your heart. I wanted to fuck Keanu Reeves. She pulled him into the shower. I'm gonna read it in a second.

[Chelsea Dev]

No, no, you're right. You're right, because I.

[Ione Skye]

No, no, but you are also right. Like, it's like to be able to say. Because there's things where I go back, you know, I think, like, just a personal story of mine. I've talked about this a lot, but, like, I went through some really intense violence in high school and I have memories where I was like, oh, but I totally walked in that party, like, trying to fuck with him, you know, because I'm a teenager, being like, he's being mean to me and I'm gonna get him back. And then I. I weave that in with like, oh, so what happened was my fault because I was a willing participant and I can unweave that and be like, absolutely not very different. But it's also important to honor your feelings in that moment and not pretend that she wasn't like a, you know, 15 year old girl trying to fuck this guy.

[Chelsea Dev]

Right? And there is power in admitting, like, how horny Girls are at 15. Like, we are. We are out to get it even whether when it's maybe dangerous.

[Ione Skye]

Woody Allen's movies made me think this was fine. And everybody put his movies on a pedestal. They still give him money. Like, I just don't think this is on her. Okay, let's read the shower scene with all this context in mind. I'm now gonna read where I wrote Keanu erotica for all of you to listen. Keanu turned on the water and stood with his back to me, hand in the stream, staring up at the shower head. I maneuvered between him and the open shower curtain, water spraying my back. His beautiful neck was right there, so close I could lick it. So I did. I zeroed in on his beautiful throat, sucking and making out with it. He made a low growling noise and I felt my stomach turn nicely. Oh, I heard myself say. The room was thick with steam. My wet T shirt sticking to me wanted to be peeled off. I ran my hand over his muscular hip, jutting from his pants and white briefs, thinking of that line in fear of flying where zippers fell away like rose petals. Underwear blew off in one breath like a dandelion fluff. I was about to have a zipless, but then I reached for his belt buckle. Keanu took my wrist, stopping me. I don't think I want to. I mean, okay, listen. All the context we just said fully aside of what I'M about to say, so. So let's really remove that from what. What I'm about to say, which is that I do want more sex scenes and memoirs. This is tight. It's almost like amateur porn where it's like, this is just a real ass sex scene that you had. And Julia Fox did this as well, where she just like fully described good sex and bad sex. And I'm like, yeah, I think I'm here for this.

[Chelsea Dev]

I. I think it's even better because they're both so hot and we know what they look like. If you were just like, and then I had sex with this random guy, Steve, I'd be like, okay, sure, whatever. But when it's like, you mean the man I also have a crush on, like, tell me about it. So I was into it too.

[Ione Skye]

Okay.

[Chelsea Dev]

Even though I also wanted more context.

[Ione Skye]

And we also are not into it in other ways. Yes, absolutely. Okay. So there's a lot going on in life. We have so much. We're not even at Anthony Kiedis yet, but. So I just want to quickly talk about this Hollywood world she's in. She. She starts to spend a lot of time at the Zappas, Moon Unit. Zappa, who also has a memoir that just came out. And she's spending time at Moon's house. Moon's house dad is Frank Zappa, and Selma Blair married Ahmet Zappa.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, okay.

[Ione Skye]

I feel like I need a family tree of people hanging out at Moon Unit's house, but Ione is there a lot. Flea is there and then Drew Barrymore and she wrote this. Sometimes you'd find Eddie Van Halen on a Shea Lounge, grinning around a cigarette. He was in his 30s, but look 20 with his new short haircut and tanned six pack. Drew Barrymore, another fixture, was 12 and in her Little Girl Lost phase. I do want to let everyone know that we covered Little Girl Lost her memoir on this podcast and you have to listen to that episode. Anyways, back into the paragraph. She was always telling tall, provocative tales that she made sound sweet, like a swearing toddler who feels the words but not the meaning behind them. We were all very protective of her. There is a 30 year old fucking man and 12 year old drew and 16 year old Ione and like, it was like Hollywood was just like, anyone from 12 to 40 can all hang at the pool.

[Chelsea Dev]

The fact that she mentions the age Eddie Van Halen looks as if that's what matters of like, well, Drew is 12, but you know, she looks older and she talks about herself like I was 16, but I looked older and this guy looked younger. It's like, I don't think it's. It's not a casting office where it's like, can play college. Like, it's your real ages, your people. I feel like sometimes that is something that all of the characters in this book seem to lose sight of. Is that because you're in Hollywood, you forget you are a person? You're not just like, that happens image. Yes. I just. I thought it was so interesting the way so many of these people seem to, like, forget their own humanity at times and think of themselves as a brand, which I think is very relevant now.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

That so many people kind of lose track of their own, I don't know, personhood, humanity.

[Ione Skye]

That was. That was a great way to say it. And I. Listen, we. Any party we go to, we could point out the ones who have forgotten they are human. Yes. And listen, a couple of lobster tails and a few martinis. I. I'm also like, am I human or.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah.

[Ione Skye]

Well, this is when she meets Anthony Kiedis. He is 24. She is 16.

[Chelsea Dev]

And again, set up by great guy Fleet, who, according to her, that she's like. Flea is, like, still one of my best friends. Yes. He got back together with his ex girlfriend that he's obsessed with. But he kept telling me, like, I've been telling my friend Anthony about you. You know, my band mate, Anthony Kiedis, who is a heroin addict. I've been showing him your picture, and he really wants to meet you. You should go out with him.

[Ione Skye]

He's.

[Chelsea Dev]

That is insane.

[Ione Skye]

You're also skipping the part that she and Flea were hooking up.

[Chelsea Dev]

Right.

[Ione Skye]

Which is also like, that's. That's a level of painful when you're a teenager where you're like, I have a crush on you. And they're like, date my friends. And then you're like, oh, okay, like, I've been passed off.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. This was bizarre to me. If one of my exes, like, some guy I was dating, was like, I'm actually getting back to together with my girlfriend, but why don't you just start hooking up with my friend instead? It's like, are you my pimp? What is happening?

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, Like. Like, women as objects.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes.

[Ione Skye]

Early on. And she meets Anthony at this party at the Zappas. And she said, fashion aside, his fringe jacket was paired with striped board shorts and combat boots. Anthony was beautiful. Not much taller than me, but tall in presence. First off, I have to say, I have tall energy. I have A tall personality. Whereas like I am tall, but then I also have a tall personality and people will usually guess my height and say six feet. And I am five, eight. So maybe Anthony is like that. I don't know. I. But I. He said this, he said the like the wind blows. And he says, can you feel that, Ione? I lifted my hand too. I feel it. I said, that's what makes Hollywood so dynamic. He said that desert energy blowing in. I can really get down with it. And then I wrote, loser. You're a loser. Of course you have to hit on a 16 year old girl. This wouldn't work on an adult woman.

[Chelsea Dev]

I was going to say the exact same thing. He's only option, the only people that would think that is deep, they're in.

[Ione Skye]

High school and they're not famous yet. So Red Hot Chili Peppers like haven't taken off yet. Which I also think is like important context to this. And so then, you know, tale is old as time. You think you're chasing him and it's up to you, but really you're a child. He's an adult man who has manipulated you into this. And her and Flea's girlfriend, who we got back together with, get an idea to fly to their concert in Tucson. And they were gonna drive, but Ione's mom is like, are you out of your mind? You're not driving now. Ione, emancipated with a movie star's check, says, okay, I'll fly. And so they fly to the concert and she says a crew member showed us the dressing room door and Loisha threw it open, then froze. I was behind her and still registering what I was seeing. Flea and Anthony on two ends of a crummy sofa, each straddled by a girl. When Louisa rushed at Flea, fist bald fucking asshole. She screamed, whipping out of the room. Flea ran after her while I looked at my feet, mortified. Anthony probably thought I was obsessed with him flying here like some crazed groupie. He didn't even get off the couch, just sort of maneuvered the girl to the side. Was that a hard on under his shorts? And then Flea and Louisha fight and fight and then make up. And then they're all in the hotel room after, and Flea and Luisha are clearly about to have sex in the hotel room bed next to Ione. And she's like, oh God, please don't do this, because they've gotten back together. And Louisha says, I have an idea. Why don't you go to Anthony's room? And she's like, yeah, he's in the room with a different woman. I can't. And Luis is like, it's fine. I'll walk you there. Walks her to Anthony's room, Knocks on the door. He answers the door. There's another girl in there. And she said, we came to see you, said Luisha, unable to look Anthony in the eye. I studied Marilyn's face on his T shirt. Was this Marilyn Monroe or. Or Marilyn Manson?

[Chelsea Dev]

Monroe.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, listen. Anthony says, hold on. He goes back inside, talks to the girl who is clearly just sends the girl aside. And he said, the girl left. And Anthony ushered me in the room. I felt almost dignified entering that dark room. I felt powerful. Come to think of it, Anthony had chosen me. And they are instantly enmeshed and in a relationship forever after. That. That is. I can't even call it a red flag because that's not what it is. That is like a fence with like a thousand knives being thrown at your face. And you somehow made it across.

[Chelsea Dev]

I do like the fact that this is such a theme, that she does acknowledge that she is so desperate to be chosen after feeling rejected by her dad that that is the only thing that matters. Is this any high status guy that picks her over the other girls. Like, it's literally a pick me girl in that way of just like all. She wants to pick me. Yes. She just wants to be chosen because that's the validation and so uses her beauty and her success and her sexuality to try to get that and look very relatable. I'm like, we've always been there.

[Ione Skye]

You and I both have some dad stuff.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes.

[Ione Skye]

I think. I don't want to speak for you, but like a couple. Not like Ione, but I've had a couple maybe like droplets of 10 minutes when someone who wasn't supposed to choose me chose me. And yeah. Holy, that feeling. I. If it. If I thought it was possible, I might have chased it more. All right. Like, it's like, it is a very addictive. Like, the guy who wasn't supposed to choose you, you got him to choose you. It's a very intoxicating feeling that is addictive. And you don't realize how unhealthy it is until you go through some sort of emotional rehab for it.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes, it is. Very much. It's less about the romance and more about winning.

[Ione Skye]

Yes. Yes. It's like, not even about them. And we both love to win.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. From My Best Friend's Wedding. When we did that movie on my podcast, we talked about the fact that there's a line where Rupert Everett calls her out and he's like, are you actually in love with him or do you just want to win? And she kind of isn't sure. She claims it's love, but I'm like, no, bitch, no, no, you just want to. No, you could have him because otherwise your self esteem is going to crumble. And that is the same thing that I felt so much throughout this book.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, that's. Yeah. Beautifully said. Also, love a Best Friend's Wedding. Core thematic, millennial lesson tie in. So they get into this really intense, intense relationship. And it's. It's just so important to remember that she is 16, she is 17, and he is 24 because he is a heroin addict. And using her teenage logic will be like, well, if you're gonna do it, do it in front of me. Do it here at home. Since you're gonna do it, let me drive you there so I know you'll be safe so you won't sleep under a bridge. And she just. I mean, she's his teenage girlfriend driving him to get heroin at 2am seemingly night after night after night.

[Chelsea Dev]

She's basically like the cool mom. She's like, if you're gonna drink, just do it at home where I know you're safe. Like, it's crazy. But she's six.

[Ione Skye]

I know. And that's. That's the thing where, like, when you read it, you go, oh, God. And then you think, yeah, you're a teenager, like you said. Your brain's not done cooking. This was the best she thought to do in that moment for someone she thought she loved for a relationship she thought was working. And you can hear in other little pieces that she loses friends over this. She loses moon. She loses a lot of people who clearly Anthony pulls her into a lot of destructive behavior, and they can't get Ione out of it. And then she just loses people. And there's a story in here that I'll never get over because it's nuts. I'm just gonna read it. She goes to meet Anthony on tour, and she goes down into the lobby and she says, you know, I parked my suitcase and I'm waiting for him to come down. And she said he showed up wearing a Peruvian sweater a few sizes too big for him. His beautiful long hair in a smooth. In a smooth ponytail. I quickly scanned him for signs of post binge wear and tear and was thinking he looked pretty good when I noticed a girl trailing behind him. She was beautiful, wearing a sparkly off the Shoulder mini dress that was no daytime dress. He must have brought her back from last night's show and now he was bringing her to breakfast. Anthony had never been so blatant before. Did he want me to know my competition? Was that why she was here? Anthony casually introduced us as if it were the most normal thing in the world that his live in girlfriend and his one night stand, if that's what she was, should meet. I was so confused. These days I didn't know what was normal anymore. Here's where I should note that she has moved out of her house into a house with Anthony again. She's emancipated, made this bold decision that no one thought she should make, and so now she feels like she has to defend it lest they all be right. And she said. The three of us ate an awkward silence peppered with small talk. Then Anthony signaled for the check and we stood up and he kissed the girl on the cheek and me on the lips. I didn't reciprocate, but lifted my chin. After that, still number one. Anthony took my suitcase and suggested that since the girl and I were both headed downtown, we should share a cab. The two of us rode in silence to the Vesuvio bakery on Prince, where the girl worked. Of course she works at a cool rustic bakery, I thought as we pulled up to the Kelly Green shop with golden baguettes stacked in the window. Thanks for the ride, said the girl, reaching for the door. Have a nice day, I said blandly. I wasn't mad at her. It wasn't her fault. I just felt so tired and suddenly very old. I felt like the oldest teenager in New York and that was probably saying a lot.

[Chelsea Dev]

A bananas story. Truly crazy.

[Ione Skye]

And it's hard for me to comprehend it happening.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's good she's not mad at the girl because she's like, yeah, this isn't your fault.

[Ione Skye]

But also like, she's not mad at him. It. Yeah, it happened. I mean, she just sits through it. This is how much she has stripped her of who she is to get to the point where this can happen. Like, so much has been taken from her to get to the point where like. And now we'll eat breakfast together and you two can share a cab. You psychopath. Dude.

[Chelsea Dev]

He's like, you're Eskimo sisters. Go be frank.

[Ione Skye]

Hilarious. I. Yeah, what. What would you do if this happened to you?

[Chelsea Dev]

I mean, okay, look, at this point in my life, I do have a backbone. So I would be like, fuck you. Like this is insane. I would be livid and indignant. And that I will say. When I was in college, I did a short film at nyu and there was this other guy who was an actor slash model who was in the short film with me. And I thought he was like the most beautiful man I'd ever seen. And we were kind of flirting and he ended up like, basically, I won. We, like, left after the film shoot, went to my dorm and hooked up. And I was like, so validated because I cannot. I was like, I can't believe someone this hot is choosing me. Yeah, we went out on an actual date. He was an hour late, hour and a half late. I waited. Then we went to a bar where he proceeded to, like, ditch me because some of his friends were there. And then I saw him, like, touching and I think kissing a girl at the bar. And I stayed. I kept waiting. I was like, well, like, his drink's over by me, so, like, he's going to come back at some point.

[Ione Skye]

And did he?

[Chelsea Dev]

And he did. But I just. I. Every part of the night I look back and I was like, where. Where was my self esteem? And it's like, right. I was 19. I didn't have any. 20, maybe. Like, I just felt so, like a glow to be around someone this hot that I felt like I didn't deserve. Which is bananas because obviously I did, like, yes, in every way. But so. And anyway, we ended up. I still even then went home with him, had awful, awful sex, and of course left. And it was just a disaster. And it was a good lesson for me.

[Ione Skye]

But also. So I love that you shared that story because it is. Yes, it is this moment. It is this time in life where you've. You just don't love yourself or like yourself or understand yourself enough or something else entirely.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah.

[Ione Skye]

But you don't have what it takes to stand up for yourself because it's really hard to. It's really hard to learn and grow to be that person. And I. Yeah, I have, so. I have so many times, like that Chelsea, where I'm just like, why did I do that? But okay, so, yes. So all to say, like, I totally see how this happened. And also, it's just such a wild. The sharing a cab is really the part that sent me over the edge. So then. Then she gets the role and say anything, which is the Cameron Crowe movie rom com that. I mean, really is it. It's a generational rom com. Are you guys going to cover it on your podcast?

[Chelsea Dev]

So we're doing it Right now.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, good.

[Chelsea Dev]

Just to tee up with the memoir is a little like a little crossover.

[Ione Skye]

Okay. Yes. So I just rewatch listen to Chelsea's podcast to get into this movie because it's a lot darker than I remember. I remembered it as a rom com. No, it has a lot of darkness to it.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's an interesting one because I think it's. It's so influential to so many rom coms that come after it because it's clear that Cameron Crowe is trying to get rid of a lot of the tropes and, like, do unexpected things and be like, well, this can be. This can be weighty. This can have these other storylines and it can have all of that. That gravitas. Does it work? Well, that's. That's the debate that at least on our podcast, we were not on the same page. We disagreed, me and my co host. Oh, I love that. But I think it's a very influential one in just. You can see so many movies that come after.

[Ione Skye]

Yes, yes. He really did change how movies were made. And this part killed me. He said, Cameron basically writes the movie. He sees a dad and a daughter, like, walking along the sidewalk in New York City and he's like, oh, what if that caring father happened to be a crook? Cameron started by writing a 90 page novella and the voice of the girl, Diane, to get her perspective right. He spent hours in Seattle malls and diners chatting with kids over burgers and shakes. He also drew inspiration from his overachieving mother. I said, what?

[Chelsea Dev]

Like, yeah, that. That was crazy. Also, when they're like, she talks about how he had just done Fast Times at Ridgemont High. He had written that. And to help him write that one, he had posed as a high school student and gone back to school. Which I'm like, he did. Never been pissed. Are you kidding me? Like, that should be a jailable offense. You just, like, enrolled in high school. So anyway, Cameron Crowe is out of his mind. He's out of his cord.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. Also, I think the true crime is he didn't write Never Been Kissed, which was a great rom com. No, he's out of his mind. I'm also like, I. It's kind of like when Jared Leto is like, I went method as the Joker and sent condoms full of blood to my castmates. And you're like, okay, that actually was completely unnecessary for the art that you made. And Cameron, like, I love the effort, Mike, dude, but I don't know if all of that was necessary. But listen, he writes the movie, he gets it. Made he has to convince John Cusack to be in it. And this is just a tiny little side note, but have you ever been to supposedly Cameron Crow's childhood home, which is now an Airbnb in Palm Springs?

[Chelsea Dev]

No.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, so listen, if you ever go to Palm Springs and you want to stay somewhere, like, really nice, but. But not the crazy expensive hotels, and you've got like four or five other people with you to split the cost, Cameron Crow's childhood. Childhood home is an Airbnb that I.

[Chelsea Dev]

Have stayed at twice because it's his home. Like, are you.

[Ione Skye]

No. That's a fun fact on the website. And you're like, it's. It's. It's just an Airbnb that has four bedrooms and it has a hot tub. And you're like, sick. And then you get there and they're like, did you know this was Cameron Crow's childhood home? And I. To that I say, did you grow up with this hot tub? Because what a life. It's a really. It's got a really thick ledge and you can put a laptop on it. Anyways, hot plug for anyone if you're going to Palm Springs. Okay, so another character that shows up here, I screamed, polly Platt. Now, are you a poly Platt follower?

[Chelsea Dev]

No. But this made me so intrigued by her. Her description of her work, and then kind of seeing the fact that Polly Platt still is enmeshed in kind of the sexist gross culture of the time, all of it. I. I was like, I'm so interested, Polly Platt.

[Ione Skye]

Here's another episode. Hot, Hot. Plugging. My own podcast. But if you listen to our Brooke Shields Live show episode that we put the audio out for, Polly Platt wrote Pretty Baby, which is the movie Brook Shields is naked in at 12 years old. And a big part of that is because Brook Shields mom was an alcoholic and went to war with Polly Platt. And Polly Platt is seen as this, like, real feminist figure in cinema who didn't get her due. But then there's moments like these where she's producing this movie and Ione sky is eating lunch, and Polly Platt walks by and says, stop snacking. Too much subtext, fat ass.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. And then gives her Spanx. The next day, she goes to wardrobe and there's a bunch of Spanx. Yeah, yeah.

[Ione Skye]

Like, it wasn't Spanx, because those weren't out yet, but it was like Playtex, like extra strong nylons or something like that. Yeah, the complicated poly plaque.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, yes.

[Ione Skye]

I loved it. And then the one other moment from this movie we have to talk about is that John Cusack did not want to hold up the boombox.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, my God. This, that was mind blowing to me. That, yeah, he thinks that it makes him look like cheesy and not masculine. And he's like, my character is pissed because she dumped me, so I'd be like, standoffish. I'm gonna put the boombox on the car and just like cross my arms and of like, coming. Yeah. As this love song plays, which also it went through iterations of what song it was was going to be. And Cameron Crowe, finally, because this is the star, was like, sure, we'll shoot it both ways. Okay. Don't worry, star. We'll shoot it your way and my way. And so then they also shoot it the iconic way with him wearing his heart on his sleeve, holding up the boombox over his head as it plays. And then the cinematographer, who's a very famous cinematographer, Laszlo reveals after I didn't even put film in the camera for John Q take. Yeah, he knew. He knew. He was like, this is trash. This is stupid.

[Ione Skye]

It really. I am so curious how you feel about this because we're both in this business, but it really took me to this place where when you want to be a part of the creative process but you aren't being a true creative, the easiest note to give is a logic note. You can, well, logically this. Well, logically this. But great art and great cinema and great moments take a bit of magic. They take a bit of spontaneity. They take a joke that like, perhaps the joke is not the most logical, but jokes at their best. Like, you feel it, you know, it's not the logic, it's the tone. It's this magical moment where it's like you guys suspend logic enough to let the creativity and the magic of holding that boombox up, which is the thing everyone remembers just because it's not logical.

[Chelsea Dev]

Right. Even though in the movie it goes by so fast, it's a whiff and it's gone. There's not a scene, there's no dialogue. She doesn't even respond. That's not the climactic thing that gets Diane back. It's just a two second thing that is like kind of nothing, but that's also everything.

[Ione Skye]

And that's. And yeah, and you could cut it and you could be like, oh, that's not realistic. And it's like. But yeah, I just. I just want some of the fucking magic back. Okay? So she does this movie. She's obviously her star is going to rise A million times over because of this. So previous to this moment in life, her dad had, for some reason, sent her a paternity test. Like, are you even mine?

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah.

[Ione Skye]

And she didn't take it. And now a couple years later, Donovan and his wife Linda, they find out have been living two hours away from LA this entire time. But he's never smooth his daughter, and he writes to her, and I think Linda writes to her and is like, why don't you come up here, I'll film you and your dad talking and we'll do some healing. And these instances where Linda always wants to fucking film her and her dad talking and meeting for the first time. I loved this about Ione's book. Maybe it's because I made a similar choice in mine where sometimes instead of saying, wasn't this awful or isn't this person awful? I just wrote what happened so that you, the reader, can decide, is this person a fudgeing bitch? And I. Every time Linda came up in this book, I was like, I hate this woman. I only never had to write it. And I was like, I hate this woman. Why is she trying to film them heal?

[Chelsea Dev]

I agree. That said, Linda does get a thank you at the end, so.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, but that's just standard practices.

[Chelsea Dev]

Again, this is a part where I'm like, are you guys forgetting your human beings?

[Ione Skye]

Linda, it's not hot content. We're still in the 90s, right?

[Chelsea Dev]

This is not for the future documentary about, like, Donovan's life. Like, we don't need the archival take on it. This is a father and a daughter reconnecting.

[Ione Skye]

But I loved this reconnection because at least from my vantage, it happens. Like all big father daughter reconnections happen, which is that it's pretty mid and disappointing. And nothing takes place of notes, and she just goes back to her normal life.

[Chelsea Dev]

I. I did think it was interesting less for the. The reconnection, which was kind of anticlimactic. But she was so hurt by this paternity test request. And I wrote down. I'm like, oh, I did one of those. Like, wait, my dad. My dad made me take a paternity test, Chelsea. And I didn't think it was a big deal.

[Ione Skye]

Wait, what?

[Chelsea Dev]

How old were you in. In high school? I was like, 16. And I look just like my dad. So there was no question, but I think, or maybe it was my mom had. I don't know whose side if it was. Like, my mom was like, your dad is denying he has to pay because he's basically saying, like, well, how do I know she's even mine or something?

[Ione Skye]

Which I think is what was happening here as well.

[Chelsea Dev]

And so she's like, so you just have to, for the court, do it. And so I had to like, go to court and take a paternity test and show up, and I really didn't find it traumatic or a big deal. And maybe that's why I should go to therapy. I am a famous. Never been to therapy. Don't need it. I'm fine. I'm actually fine. And I keep everything in a beautiful box and I'll never open it.

[Ione Skye]

So thank you for admitting that. As we all know, you're wrong.

[Chelsea Dev]

Consider it's great. And so when she is so hurt by this, it was. It was a little bit befuddling to.

[Ione Skye]

Me, I have to say.

[Chelsea Dev]

Why don't you just take the test? It's no big deal.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, my God, this. This is making so much sense in our friendship because there have been like a handful of things that either I've shared with you or you've shared with me. And you're like, no biggie. And I'm like, no biggie, bitch.

[Chelsea Dev]

What?

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, but it was like, there's always a way to see it too of like, it's so nice to like, have trust and optimism that it was fine because I. I did not have to take a paternity test. But similar things happened with me where child support was always just so slippery because I'm a donor kid and he wasn't actually my dad. So it was ne like he really wasn't my dad and was like, therefore I no longer have to be a.

[Chelsea Dev]

Dad to this child there anytime court gets involved, which it gets involved a lot.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, My first therapist was a court ordered therapist.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, okay. Interesting.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, like four. Anyways, Donovan's gonna come back later, but first she's gonna meet Adam Horovitz of the Beastie Boys Ad Rock. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be right back. I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3.

[Chelsea Dev]

Will that be cash or credit?

[Ione Skye]

Credit.

[Chelsea Dev]

4 Galaxy S25 Ultra, the AI companion.

[Ione Skye]

That does the heavy lifting.

[Chelsea Dev]

So you can do you get [e-mail] compatible with select apps.

[Ione Skye]

Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input.

[Chelsea Dev]

Check responses for accuracy.

[Ione Skye]

Ryan Reynolds here from IT Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required Intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee full [e-mail] daredevil is born again on disney plus my name is Matthew Murdoch.

[Chelsea Dev]

I'm a lawyer.

[Ione Skye]

Exactly what kind of a lawyer are you? A really good one. Everyone agrees it's the best Marvel television series.

[Chelsea Dev]

Gritty, intense and elevated, it's Daredevil at his best.

[Ione Skye]

If you step out of line, I will be there. Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again. Don't miss the two episode premiere tonight only on Disney Disney plus okay, let's dive back into the episode.

[Chelsea Dev]

I loved these chapters. This is where I felt like she was owning the destructiveness that is in her. How complicated she is. She, the way she speaks about falling in love with him I found very beautiful. Yeah, I just, I loved these chapters and it made me be like, should I just go listen to the Beastie Boys for like six days straight?

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. I mean my pen ran out of ink with the amount of things I was underlining. And so she meets Adam when she is 18 years old. She is still with Anthony. He is 22 and they have and also once again, her brother Donna is the connector of like how they meet. Just so many life moments that, that he is like there for. And this is our psychic moment, a Durango. She is having this connection with Adam but is still with Anthony and not ready to let go. Adam has been dating Molly Ringwald, who had been hanging out at Moon Unit Zappa's house. And they have this night where they finally get alone. Adam kisses her and she kisses back and she's like, we promised to stay friends and only friends and like it just wasn't time for us. And Anthony calls her from tour and says, I dreamed you kissed someone last night. He said accusingly, I almost dropped the phone. Was Anthony psychic? It was practically an invitation to come clean and just say it. Yes, I kiss someone. He makes me happy and I love him and I want to be with him, not you. But I was a coward. So I said, that's weird. Where's your show tonight? Which wow. Listen, it could be a psychic moment. It could also just be a jealous, manipulative older boyfriend just doing the rounds, you know, just every month or so accusing you of something so crazy that.

[Chelsea Dev]

This guy who is cheating on her every single night is so paranoid that she might kiss another guy.

[Ione Skye]

And also, of course, of course, now we have to take a quick tangent and Dringo Warren Beatty. But not for Ione. For her mom. Enid. I screamed. She said. The next morning, I went to mom's room for the scoop on Warren Beatty. They'd gone out the night before, and she'd come home impressively late. Enid had been sleeping with Warren on and off since the 1950s. Crazy. He had a photographic memory and still knew by heart her parents number in Queens from when she was a teen.

[Chelsea Dev]

Ugh.

[Ione Skye]

Warren, you bitch. Can you imagine how many numbers, how many women's numbers were stuck in Warren's head? Every seven years or so, he'd get mom's new number from my grandparents and call her up for a date. Mom had hardly dated since Billy, that younger stepdad who went away. But she never could resist Warren.

[Chelsea Dev]

To be those grandparents who every now and then you just get a call from Warren Beatty. Be like, so you're like hot, slutty daughter. What's her new number like?

[Ione Skye]

It's.

[Chelsea Dev]

But it's crazy. So many things in this book. I'm like, what? This all felt normal to people.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's. Oh, it's so wild. And just Warren just. He's in Carly Simon's book and Cher's book. Like, he's just everywhere. And there's a few more just tangential things happening before she and Adam really get together. And then one more thing happens, which is that she goes to Al Anon meetings when she takes Anthony to his AA meetings. And when she's there one time, a woman recommends her a book titled Codependent no More, which is a book many.

[Chelsea Dev]

People have told me to read.

[Ione Skye]

And I've. Like you, Chelsea, I've avoided it. I'm just so tired. I'm not ready to work on myself more. I'm tired.

[Chelsea Dev]

Working on yourself is not only hard and tiring, but, like, it hurts. I've. I did.

[Ione Skye]

I did. I wrote my memoir. I did a lot. I now get a five year break to be a dumbass. And then I will go back and work on myself.

[Chelsea Dev]

I did acting so school. I used that to make myself cry. The same thing, I think. I. I mean, acting school costs more than therapy.

[Ione Skye]

Okay. I'll give you. Well, depending on which one you go to, I guess. The one we did. That is so true. Oh, yes. We both went to nyu and you were the cool, lovable kid and I was a loser. This is also where we are.

[Chelsea Dev]

But you also knew where you wanted to go, cuz you dropped out to go do comedy. Versus I was still like, maybe I'm Meryl Streep before realizing, like, no, I'm not. Nope. Wrong.

[Ione Skye]

Well, Ione realizes who she is by doing shrooms with Adam and suddenly realizes she doesn't want to be Anthony's nurse anymore. And she said. I stood and took Adam's hand. He followed me upstairs and into my old bedroom, where we went to bed together for the first time. And a new day began. I could not go back to Anthony's world after that. My heart was too full. He would not fit. Which we love. But also, you know, it's that classic, like, I'm 18. I'll use a man to get over a man, you know?

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Ione Skye]

And they get married.

[Chelsea Dev]

They get married, they fall in love. I mean, I have to say, the way she writes about Adam, he seems like just such a good guy. But then again, she also thinks of Flea as a good guy who I would say does not come off as a good guy. So, you know, maybe a little bit of an unreliable narrator here from Ione, but.

[Ione Skye]

But he really seems like an incredible guy.

[Chelsea Dev]

He seems amazing.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. Even the other people in the book who talk about him, I think other memoirs have written about him. And they get married. She's 21 and he's 25. But she's like, it feels like the safe thing to do. I'm about to go shoot a movie. He's gonna go on tour, and we sort of feel like, well, if we get married, then our relationship's good and we could spend nine months apart, which obviously, lol. I want to read some of the people at this wedding. Her bridesmaids were Zoe Cassavetes, Amelia Fleetwood Karis Jagger, Lisa Ann Kabasa, and Rachel Horovitz. I hope everyone heard the last names and all of that. This is a lot of famous kids, daughters.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oops. All Nepo babies.

[Ione Skye]

Oops. All Nepo babies. But also, like, I have to say, I. I do just out of pure jealousy and growing up and poor trash. I always get so just jealous of Nepo kid. Just. Just wanting a chance. This is a book where I did not have those feelings because of the way Ione wrote about it.

[Chelsea Dev]

Wow.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. Did you have those Feelings.

[Chelsea Dev]

I. I did. And especially skipping ahead, but later with the, like, David Netto stuff, the fact that she just is encountering, like, both the American version of aristocracy, which is like, kid of celebrity, and the English version of aristocracy, which is like, you inherited David's land. Yeah, I had that feeling of like, oh, it doesn't matter how hard I strive. Like, there is a club you are born into and it's. It's just not up to you.

[Ione Skye]

Well, that's changed some of my feelings.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's. It's dire. Maybe. Maybe cut that. That's not fun.

[Ione Skye]

No, no, no. We are keeping that because, yeah, I normally have those feelings. I'm normally filled with rage, but I think I just love her so much and she gave so much. In this book. It I. It may. I was able to sit in that world where you are a part of that world, but also your dad hasn't spoken to you all your life. And you're jealous of Mick Jagger being a good dad to Karis, which is like, he's not a great dad to Caris, you know, but that's who you have to be jealous of.

[Chelsea Dev]

Even with, like, Moon and talking about Frank Zappa, the fact that they, like, all live together in this house and then yet the way they talk about Frank Zappa is like, he's this moody guy who's always in his little home studio and the kids are not. They're, like, not allowed to go in there. He keeps to himself. It's like these great men, they are not loving, open hearted, like, accessible men.

[Ione Skye]

Yes. And. And they are the men that made Hollywood and made us and made these kids, which is something to think about. And she had this great joke in there where Moon one time said she had to record an entire, like, album or song just to get to spend some time with her dad. And Ione's like, every day, every dad loves different. Huh. So. So, yes. Okay. So other people at this wedding, so the famously liberal gay judge, Baby John Ladner is their officiant. And the night before the wedding, sheepishly, he says, I have to tell you, no wedding I've performed will ever last. It's like, bro, I love it. Keep it to yourself. Or say it a lot earlier before they book you and they. They get married. And you know who else is at this goddamn wedding? Anthony Kiedis.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, this proves she's still. She may be 21, but, like, she's still 16 at heart.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, really? I was like, you're 81 at heart, because how do you have enough Peacefulness.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, my God.

[Ione Skye]

This happened.

[Chelsea Dev]

No. I feel like that was teenage brain me, which was like. But he'll always be a piece of my soul. He made me the person I am today, and no amount of time will ever erase that. And it's like, ew. Yeah. Era it, like, gross.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. We were different teenagers because teenage me was like, I'll run him over with my car and, like, throw a drink at him. Because, like, no man who's ever kissed me should get to stay alive after that if they did not profess their love to me.

[Chelsea Dev]

Interesting. And I was just like, writing sad songs forever about.

[Ione Skye]

Hilarious. Hilarious. Okay, well, he's there, he's at the wedding. They're all just like, it's this Hollywood that I know had I lived in, in this, if I had been in Ione's shoes with my personality, this would have wrecked me in ways I never could have recovered from or stayed a part of this Hollywood. But she is able to. And then it makes me, like, want this 90s Hollywood she's living in where they're like, all friends, even though I know I wouldn't have survived it. She also wrote this. She said her and Adam moved into a snow white sized cottage with whimsical cupolas on Wonderland Avenue in Laurel Canyon. Our back garden had mountain views, a tiered brick patio, and a guest cottage with its own wood barrel hot tub. Her mom and Richard, who she'd gotten remarried, lived next door in a modern house that Richard had built for them. A cozier, homier version than the house she'd grown up in. And I was like, me want this life? What is this Laurel Canyon 90s Hollywood, beautiful life. That is not the Laurel Canyon that exists anymore. Because I just want to quickly read this. You know, the big earthquake happens when they live there. And she wrote, we pulled layers over our pajamas, looking very grunge, and wandered next door where mom and Richard sat in their garden wrapped in blankets and drinking whiskey. Mom handed us blankets and Richard filled our shot glasses. Best to stay outside, he said, in case of aftershocks. I said, that is not earthquake culture in LA anymore.

[Chelsea Dev]

No.

[Ione Skye]

I want to be wrapped in a blanket in a garden drinking whiskey after an earthquake.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, that sounds beautiful. Also, I think he's wrong. Like, earthquake safety is not like the outside where things can, like, fall on you.

[Ione Skye]

That's definitely an issue. That's definitely no longer it. But also to be in a time when you didn't know that. Also, one story during the earthquake, she Said the adrenaline coursing through me was oddly calming. I crawled across the shaking floor, grabbed Adam, and heroically, I thought, pulled him into the bedroom doorway. That's what we'd been taught to do in earthquake drills in elementary school before they changed the protocol to drop, take cover, and hold on less heroically, as we stood swaying and clinging to each other for dear life, I let out a big, terrified fart. Mortified, I pinched Adam's nose and held it till the shaking stopped, then ushered him to the dark kitchen. Wait, why did you hold my nose? He said, flicking a dead light switch. I didn't want to gross you out. I said, that is the craziest. This is when I, like, I can't believe she included that. And I love her for it.

[Chelsea Dev]

I just. Again, that. That just makes me be like, she's a child. To be like, oh, no, my husband can't. No, I fart like. Like, oh, I don't want him to gross him out. It's like, you're married.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, but that's her saying, like, I was vain. I was a kid. I didn't want to gross him out. But also more funny is that an.

[Chelsea Dev]

Earthquake happens and she's, like, worrying about the farts.

[Ione Skye]

No. That she's farting at all. Like, it's so funny to fart during an earthquake.

[Chelsea Dev]

I don't know, man. No. All right, okay.

[Ione Skye]

Well, they are married, but she is still, like, having this big party life while Adam is. Is over it and really into music and really working. And she goes on a first date. It's not her first date. It's her brother Donna's first date with a gal called Kate. But Ione is on the date with them, and the woman is Kate Moss.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. Yeah. Donna's just dating all the models. I think at this point, he's already dated Gwyneth Paltrow.

[Ione Skye]

No, Gwyneth Paltrow's next.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, okay. Never mind.

[Ione Skye]

And I think he is a model at this point. He is a model. Yes. And I want to read what she wrote about Kate Moss. She said Kate wore silky eye mask on the plane and lit a cigarette. When the flight attendant said, Ms. Moss, there's no smoking on the airplane. Kate replied, I'll put it out in a minute. And then took a few more leisurely puffs before dropping it in the butt of her glass of sparkling water. Like, what a wow.

[Chelsea Dev]

I know.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. My God. And so they're gonna break up, and she's going to keep going out. And here's where I have to remind everyone she is 20 years old. Because this is a really hard part to take in where she's going to start cheating on Adam, but she's also discovering that she is bisexual and is interested in women. And I think everyone she's cheating on him with is a woman. Maybe not, but it's a huge part of this. Yes.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes, this is a huge part of it. I. She really drops it as this bombshell because she's talked about, like, Anthony with these other women and being so jealous of her and, you know, these other people that she's been with. And then she just sort of is like, dear reader, I must tell you, I've actually never been faithful to any partner. And I felt like that was context. That would have actually been interesting for the Anthony stuff to be like.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, interesting, because. Yeah, because I don't know. Well, no, she. But she knew the context with Anthony. She cheated on him with Adam.

[Chelsea Dev]

Right. But I think even before that, at least to me, that was the implication of I never.

[Ione Skye]

I didn't think so. Yeah. No, I think she has never been faithful because she cheated on Anthony with Adam, But I don't think she was cheating with other men with Adam.

[Chelsea Dev]

That was the only. That was like, the first time.

[Ione Skye]

I guess that is because I think she would have told us. She said, this might be a moment to make a confession. I was a serial cheater before Adam. I'd fooled around on every boy I dated all the way back to middle school. Not that it had many relationships at 23, but I'd had four serious boyfriends and betrayed them all.

[Chelsea Dev]

So that made me think that there were more, that there were more, that there were more, and that she had left that out. And it worked as a big bombshell for me. But I was also like, well, that would have changed slightly the way I read some of these things.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, interesting.

[Chelsea Dev]

And it made me wonder, like, had she then been faithful to Adam until this point and then this was the turning point, or had she been cheating on her?

[Ione Skye]

Oh, I think absolutely, yes. Well, because she does cheat on him the whole time. This starts immediately. They get married. They go through their honeymoon. They end their honeymoon early to attend a party. And then she meets a woman named Alice Temple who's androgynous and a lesbian, and she's like, I must have her. I. I think it's months into the marriage.

[Chelsea Dev]

And she said, thinking, even when they were dating.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, interesting. Okay.

[Chelsea Dev]

I don't know. I don't know. She doesn't quite go into it.

[Ione Skye]

I think she would tell us. I get it.

[Chelsea Dev]

Okay.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, Listen, if you're describing your earthquake farts, I. There's just a level of trust I have in you that I think she tells us so much. I think she'd tell us. So she starts pursuing Alice. She realizes that she's doing heroin. Everyone's around her is doing heroin. So Ione will dabble and say, like, thankfully, I never got addicted, but it was, like, really tempting and scary. And she's talking about Moon Zappa's cousin Lala. She's talking about Alice. All these women I wrote at this part of the book, I said, they're all Jessas. Everyone she's ever been friends with at Moon Unit's house is a Jessa from Girls. You know what I mean?

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ione Skye]

I was like, oh, you guys are all just, like, too cool, and you don't own calendars, but you're wildly successful. And, like, we don't get haircuts, but, like, we're beautiful.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ione Skye]

She just starts openly having these relationships with women to the point that her mom's like, what are you doing? You are married. She said, till this day, I don't know how much Adam knew. He asked her to kind of stop going out. And she's like, I can't. I need to explore this. And he says, okay. So it's like, maybe he knows. And. And then their friend River Phoenix dies. And river has been in the book from the beginning as, like, a friend who's around. He's also been in the book as her good friend Martha Plimpton's boyfriend. And, like, she knows him a lot. And then at this part of the book, says, river and I had kissed once, and I said, no, bad Ione. That's Martha's boyfriend. So I think that was some of the stuff she was talking about.

[Chelsea Dev]

Maybe. I don't know. It's crazy. And, yeah, she's just. I feel like there's a lot of bombshells where then, like, later on, because she talks about how she had such a, you know, almost like, friendly crush, but maybe actual crush on John Cusack when they were filming together. And then, like, way later in the memoir, she's like, I did sleep with Johnny once or twice. And you're like, wait, what? When did that happen?

[Ione Skye]

But I loved it, too, because you could tell she couldn't. She, like, respectfully wouldn't give those details, but did give details of fucking other famous dudes. Yeah. I was like, yes, yeah, yeah, good point.

[Chelsea Dev]

So similarly with the river stuff, you know, I don't know when it happened. I don't know.

[Ione Skye]

Right.

[Chelsea Dev]

We just. There's a lot we don't know.

[Ione Skye]

It's all like a 90s blur. Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

For a book called say Everything, I'm like, there's some things glossed over.

[Ione Skye]

Ah. I still disagree. Like, we are an hour and a half into recording this. We have so much to get through, and we're skipping so much. No, I think she put everything. Okay, so listen, Mick Jagger, he's got a dringo 19 times in this book. But I'm gonna read the Ultimate Dringo for Mick Jagger. This is my favorite. Mick Jagger, usually he just kind of wanders in. In weird pants and, like, leaves the memoir. He's. They're like, he's in weird pants. I'm at some party. Mick Jagger's there. But this is an actual moment with him that I love. So after the earthquake, her nervous system is just rattled. I've experienced this before, too, where, like, you're just. You just can't get back to normal. And she said there was one time Mick Jagger was in town. And to cheer me up, Karis, his. One of his daughters, invites her over to visit with her dad. Karis is one of her brides. And she said. As Mick went to top off my champagne, the glasses rattled on the. On the tea tray, and a few drops spilled onto my hand. Another aftershock. Mick, eyebrows raised in surprise, calmly held the champagne bottle aloft like an airplane steward in turbulence. When it was over, he laughed and said, good fun la. And went back to filling my glass. It wasn't the biggest aftershock we'd had, but it wasn't the smallest. And yet I hadn't dived under the coffee table for this one. True to my special brand of magical thinking, I must have felt mixed presence, meant nothing bad could happen. As if the force field of his fame and importance would not allow it. Yeah, it's an LA psychosis that she is admitting to.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. She's forgetting he is people. He is just a person.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. But she has that throughout the book where people are like, Ione. This isn't a movie. This is real life. This is magical. It's real life. And she. And instead compartmentalizes and chooses the magical way in. Okay, so then the real Gwyneth Paltrow ski trial begins, because we got some hot goss on Gwyneth being a bitch when she is dating Donna. And she said Adam is working and she wants to go on vacation. And Adam's like, I have to work. And so she goes on vacation with Donna and Gwyneth. Imagine how these women must be so annoyed when Donna's younger sister joins them, like on their two person vacation.

[Chelsea Dev]

It seems like it's happening a lot.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. And she said, you know, Gwyneth is around. And she said she wore her privilege unashamedly and seemed impossibly sure of herself and her choices. If Gwyneth had been at Immaculate Heart, the Aprils would have been the Gwyneths. I was two years older, but I would have wanted her approval. And Gwyneth looks at her watch. A Cartier. I don't even know how to fucking say it. This is how trash I am. A Cartier Panthere Pantore.

[Chelsea Dev]

I don't know.

[Ione Skye]

Slim and golden like her. Shall we head to the lounge? I'd love a sense there. And she said if reality didn't cooperate with Gwyneth, she simply rejected it. And when a few drops of Donno's water, like splashes on Gwyneth's lap, she snapped idiot.

[Chelsea Dev]

With a laugh.

[Ione Skye]

But still later, I sat on the farthest edge of Donna's bed. Is Gwyneth always mean to you like that? Donna laughed. Only sometimes. But I'm annoying. I don't mind.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's crazy. She is exactly who I would expect. Sorry. Gwyneth Paltrow.

[Ione Skye]

I was like, yeah, this sounds right, you know.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, she once, years ago, I think it was like post her Glee appearance, gave an interview to some magazine that was like, Gwyneth Paltrow's like fitness secrets. And I was like, okay, whatever, I'll click. I have, you know, issues. So I, I'll read it. And it was like this whole thing about how like actually people think it's like so much money and privilege, but it's actually, anyone can achieve her body. You just have to work out for an hour in the morning and then an hour in the afternoon. And like, anyone can do this. And she goes through her routine.

[Ione Skye]

Anyone with a full time minimum wage.

[Chelsea Dev]

Job who isn't a mom or a mom with nannies, like all these things that I, it made me be like, oh, this woman has never encountered reality, not one day of her life. Yeah, to be like, this is actually not about money. It's like, what do you think time is? What do you think free time is, lady?

[Ione Skye]

Now that's. But that's what I mean. That's another kid. That's a nepo kid.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, she's a nepo grandkid.

[Ione Skye]

So that's, you know, generation and generation Of Neponess. Yeah, it's she. I loved that she got the shade written about her. Well, this is a period where she is dating lots of women, some of whom are Madonnas exes. So Madonna would date a woman Ione becomes friends with Madonna and then she would be like you there and would have them as a lover, which is so funny. Then she wrote some strap on erotica in the book and it was, it's not erotica, it's just her real life. But I wrote strap on erotica where she's with Ginny, who is one of Madonna's former lovers. And Ginny said they're like having like some, some fetishy sex. And she said, where don't you want me to hurt you? And I already goes my face. I offered my heart beating faster than a heart should safely beat. But Jenny didn't hit me, not once. Instead she went to her dresser and pulled out a strap on. How to describe strap on sex with Jenny? What a sentence. It made me needy and devoted. I wanted to be her girlfriend. No, her dog. Like in that Stooges song, I want to be your dog, which made sense for the first time. And now I'm ready to feel your hand and lose my heart in the burning sands. But Ginny didn't want me to be her dog. She left shortly thereafter for a modeling job and never came back to me. Except for a good friend.

[Chelsea Dev]

Wow. I did love that. It's, it's a very like timeless feeling. Literally like Shakespeare, Midsummer Night's Dream. He, you know.

[Ione Skye]

Yes. Trap on sex made me want. You want to be your dog.

[Chelsea Dev]

I'll be your dog. I'm just your cur. I'll like walk on the ground on my knees for you. It's like yeah, something very primal and kinky and yeah, I was like, all right, cool.

[Ione Skye]

That's what I say. I'm like, more sex scenes and memoirs. Oh my God. I guess if you're having sex like this, I mean, just fudgeing. Wow. And throughout all of this, you know, she's married to Adam. She meets this woman named May, and now it gets serious and she starts juggling her marriage and this really intense relationship with May. And she's like, I'm in two relationships and it is in this moment that she does what? She gets a tattoo of the name Adam. I said, classic. Classic cheater. The moment someone surprise tattoos their name for you. Run. Run, bitch, run.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. So I, I, I think this is a turning point for her because to quote my father, who has talked about his relationship that he claims he never cheated on my mom because there's a difference between cheating and a sport fuck. A sport fuck is just an exchange of fluids. It's just a hobby. It's fun. Cheating is missing dinner. Cheating is emotional. And I think Ione and my father have a lot in common because I feel like suddenly with Melee, she's like changed and now all of a sudden she's emotionally cheating and she's missing dinner. You know.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, Chelsea, this is the part of the podcast I'm going to clip and send as your intake form to your first therapist appointment. Because. Wow. Because, wow. Chelsea's dad. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And I think it's. It's such a beautifully devastating. It's such a complicated moment because this is a woman who is not even 25 experiencing queerness for the first time, experiencing her sexuality for the first time. And she's married and cheating and betraying the person she loves. And so there's. There's just so much happening. I underlined every single sentence on this page and a half. And I'm sorry, I. I'm going to read all of it. So Melee is in the pool with her. Melee swam to me in the shallow end and I took her in my arms, holding her like a bride the way Adam had held me in the pool at lepark the night he asked me to move in with him. Then I saw a figure in the house. The water went cold. Adam. Wasn't he coming back from New York tomorrow? What day was it again? He stood just inside the glass doors that opened from our bedroom to the back patio in the pool. Melee hadn't seen him yet. She was still prone in my arms, black hair fanned in the water, talking in a fast, excited voice of a 23 year old girl telling a good story. I waved to Adam. He didn't wave back, just turned and walked into the next room. I felt like throwing up in the pool. I couldn't speak. I felt as if I just witnessed a car crash and Adam had been in the car. As if the world were ending. I was so, so afraid. I'm leaving, said Mele, the garden gate slamming behind her. When I finally got the courage to go inside, Adam said nothing, just held me as I sobbed and dripped onto his shoulder. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I said over and over. What else was there to say if I couldn't say it would never happen again? Now that he'd seen it, it was real. There was no more speaking in code. So we didn't speak at all, just retreated to different sides of the house, each of us processing, mourning. I'd finally broken us. If only we'd had it out that day, gotten to the bottom of things, maybe we would have had a chance. But that wasn't our way. Adam and I had never fought in our entire seven year relationship. I'd always thought that was our strength, but in fact, it was our weakness. The next morning, after a long night on opposite sides of the bed, it was my turn to stand by the glass doors and have my heart shattered. It was cruelly sunny and bright out. The pool was gentle and still, light dappling the surface. I was reading a letter that had been sent to Adam, handwritten. It had been waiting for him on the kitchen counter the past few days. He must have opened it last night. Just now. He handed it to me without a word. It meant something. I scanned the lines, trying to understand what it was. From Kathleen Hannah, the lead singer of Bikini Kill. They'd met at the Somersault Music Festival in Australia. They were only friends. Adam said the letter was not overtly flirtatious or inappropriate. She knew he was married and was trying at least to be respectful, but I could tell she wanted to leave an impression by the way she wrote. Cool and smart and witty. And he must have liked her too. Or why would he have shown it to me? I handed it back to him, my hand shaking. Should I write back? Adam asked, his voice soft. He wasn't asking me for permission to write her back. I understood he was asking me to give him one good reason, the only reason that mattered not to. But I couldn't give him that reason. I couldn't in good conscience promise to be faithful. Through my shock, I tried to think if my husband was going to like someone else. Like was as far as I could let my imagination go. At least Kathleen was a good person. I admired her punk feminist mission and loved her songs, especially Rebel Girl. She was not undeserving of him. I was the one who didn't deserve Adam. I guess you should, I finally said, not quite believing my ears. Was that really my voice? Sending Adam away? Condemning myself? Yes. But what else could I do? Adam had tried. He'd given me three years to mess about within our marriage, but it hadn't been enough. I was almost happy for him, after all I'd put him through. My notes are I have fallen over, I wrote. I literally wrote I have fallen over.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, it's heartbreaking. These chapters are just I feel for her so much. And the pain of, like, letting him go and knowing she still loves him.

[Ione Skye]

So much and knowing she ruined it. And this is also what's crazy to me. We read the other side of this story in Kathleen, Hannah's memoir, and sometimes I get too into the emotional story someone is telling us, and I forget to focus on the hot Goss. And I. I literally was like, kathleen is. You know, she knows Adam's married, but she's in love with him. She writes about the letter. She writes about all these times he's supposed to like that they could be together, but he won't. And I was like, kathleen, he's married. Like, you're a baiting a cheater. Like, I hate this. I hate this. And I never realized it was Ione sky on the other side who had done it first, who had given permission, who sent him to her.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, it's. It's jaw dropping, jaw dropping.

[Ione Skye]

I just. Yeah, it's some of the most incredible writing in the book. And after this, you know, they slowly divorce. They stay friends. Like, he has to at one point be like, stop calling the house at 10pm I'm with Kathleen now. Like, Kathleen has finally put her foot down. Like, I cannot be your best friend, because she just wants Adam in her life. And then she also wants to, you know, have affairs and relationships. And she gets his friendship for a while until they finally get divorced. And she writes two lists. Reasons to live in New York and reasons to live in LA because she's not sure if she should, like, move back and listen, you know, I love a listicle And Us Weekly 25 Things is my shit. I want to read some of the reasons to live in New York that she wrote. Number nine, I feel less hard on myself when I'm slutty in New York. Number 12, Puerto Rican food. Cinnamon, Cuban coffee. Number 14, the romance of fall. That makes me want to write. Oh, come on. This is fucking poetry. And a listicle. Reasons to live in LA. Number two, room for animals. Number five, owl noises. She had gotten to 15 reasons for New York, and then she gets to 16 reasons for LA. Number 16 being the hills Are Alive. And that settled it. The Hills Are Alive tipped the list in favor of la. And so I gave up the sanctuary and I moved home.

[Chelsea Dev]

That is crazy to me. I don't know. Like, I like the fact that she loves la. I like the fact that she loves New York. But so many of the. The New York and the LA reasons. I'm like, these are the reasons.

[Ione Skye]

But we didn't listen, when money's not one of the reasons, the list looks a lot different.

[Chelsea Dev]

That's very true.

[Ione Skye]

That's a good point. So she said, in the first five years after my divorce, I was crushed and wide open at the same time. I mean, she's just going through. She's going through so much. She's going through this huge phase. And again, she's like 25 years old. She's not even 30. And she's post divorce and, like, learning to be a person. And she tries to go on a date or does go on a date with Robert Downey Jr. Who she visits in jail. She visits him in jail, has to.

[Chelsea Dev]

Cut out the underwire on her bra because she's like, they don't let wire into prison, and they also don't let braless women into prison.

[Ione Skye]

Therefore, she had to pull the wire out before she could go inside.

[Chelsea Dev]

Crazy.

[Ione Skye]

It was so funny. And then, oh, my God. She wrote this. She said, he told us a story. She goes with Donno, her brother, to just visit Robert Downey. They thought he needed company. He was in prison. She said he had a ritual for laundry days. He would shower, smooth his sheets, lie down in his fresh out of the dryer prison uniform, close his eyes and visualize himself in some wonderful, luxurious place. After a few moments, his cellmate would ask, where are you now, Robert? And he would usually answer, shutters. A fancy hotel on the beach in Santa Monica. Then he'd walk his cellmate through the whole shutters experience, and they would both relax and feel better. Okay. Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's also depo babies are.

[Ione Skye]

It's.

[Chelsea Dev]

At times, it's beautiful writing. It's heartbreaking. It's like, oh, my God, they're people. And then other times, I'm like, you little brats. You're all.

[Ione Skye]

She wrote like, she's like, it's so funny. Shutters is this happy place. I do want to connect this to another one of our episodes where Vanessa Williams buys a house on the east coast and she has it redone so many times it cost millions of dollars. Till finally she just shows them a picture of shutters.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, my God.

[Ione Skye]

And it's like, design it like shutters. Rich people love shutters, which I want to remind everyone, shutters means there's shutters everywhere. So when you go to the bathroom, that door has slits in it. This cannot be luxury.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's just like an emperor's new clothes situation with so many rich things.

[Ione Skye]

It's so true. And then, listen, they go on a date. She's like, he had a really great heart on. He kissed me. It was awesome. But then it just, like, didn't work out. And. And, you know, she started to approach her 30th birthday and feel like maybe she wanted to have a kid, not to mention her mom. Enid has just had her younger brother via a surrogate when her mom is 50. And she did tell me in. In the interview that. That we're gonna play for subscribers that she had so much more on Enid that she had to cut, like, a whole book about her mom. And doesn't that make sense?

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

Enid could have a whole memoir.

[Ione Skye]

No, I. Yeah, we need it. We demand it. And it is at this moment when Tatiana von Furstenberg Match makes her Netto, who is unreasonably rich, and he wants to have a child. And they have this weird relationship where she's like, me, too. And they have some sex. And then he's like, great, I think you should go home. I'm not interested in dating you yet. And then she comes back and is like, I'm pregnant. And he's like, great, our plan has worked. Let's get married. And they, like, barely know each other.

[Chelsea Dev]

Crazy.

[Ione Skye]

They.

[Chelsea Dev]

They have unprotected sex the first time. And he, like, whispers like, I hope we have a baby. She's like, me, too. I'm like, what? At times, I Both. I found it such a great memoir, but also hard at times because her brain is working on a level that I'm like, I can't even relate to how you're making decisions. Like, I can't put myself in your shoes sometimes. Times like that.

[Ione Skye]

That's. Wow. I think that's why I loved it as a memoir, because she's telling you, like, I had this, like, great love that I destroyed, and I think this is might be what's left for me. And he has money, so, like, that seems good. And I do want a child, and he wants a child, but also, like, I've made so many bad decisions for myself. And here she is making a bad decision for herself. And then later, when she meets her husband, she talks about how he uses a condom him, because he cares about her. He wants to take care of her. And these other men did not use condoms with her as their own choice because they did not really truly care and love her. And she knows it.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, we skipped over her whole abortion.

[Ione Skye]

I didn't mean to skip that. Will you please take us through the list? There's so much in the book.

[Chelsea Dev]

There's so just much in the book.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, tell us the story.

[Chelsea Dev]

So. So she gets pregnant from being with Anthony Kiedis. She's relieved that she doesn't get HIV from Anthony.

[Ione Skye]

And he.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. Because he is, you know, using needles, sharing needles.

[Ione Skye]

This is like constantly cheating.

[Chelsea Dev]

Constantly. This is still, you know, there is no treatment or prevention for AIDS and.

[Ione Skye]

HIV at that time. Yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

During this time. And so. So she is rightly worried about it, but yet not taking any precaution. She's just letting him because she's like, well, he clearly wants to not use protection, so I'm fine with that.

[Ione Skye]

But she wasn't fine with that. She was like, I am a child in a relationship with a full grown man who is making this choice for the both of us in a way that I feel like I do not have the power to speak for myself.

[Chelsea Dev]

Right. It's like the fear of being a bummer.

[Ione Skye]

Yes.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's more.

[Ione Skye]

Oh, my God. Title of a memoir. The fear of being a bummer that.

[Chelsea Dev]

Trumps her own fear of death. That is crazy.

[Ione Skye]

And how many people can. How many. I know you have a moment in your life. I have some in mind where the fear of being a bummer was stronger than the fear of my own safety in so many ways.

[Chelsea Dev]

Absolutely. I think that that's so much of womanhood is like, yeah, yeah.

[Ione Skye]

It's how I got so far into my relationship that turned violent. And other relationships that maybe weren't violent to that degree, but were just as troubling.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. You don't want to set a boundary. You don't want to do anything. You don't want to actually protect yourself because you don't want to be a bummer. You want to be cool, cool girl. And it's bad. It's bad. So she does get pregnant and she has this line where she's like, you know, he wasn't equipped to take care of it. So it was on me because I was the girl. Just as the girl, it doesn't matter that you are so much younger and you are not a rock star. Like, all of these things and it's happening to your body. You still have to just, like, take all of that on and also handle the logistics to, like, go to a clinic, do it so she goes alone and just gets it taken care of. And I do like the way she writes about it because I think this is something that a lot of narratives around abortion are often like, oh, what a painful choice. And so I always find it refreshing in some of these books where they talk about or just hearing interviews where. And even friends who have said, like, I don't regret it at all. It was not a hard decision. I was not in a place. This wouldn't have been good for me. This wouldn't have been good for a baby. Like, I did it and I don't look back. And it was a freeing experience. And so I'm like, good for you. I'm really glad that that is her take and especially when she does become a mother, that it's not like, oh, now I regret it. It's like, no, this is a completely.

[Ione Skye]

Different thing and this is the right time. Yeah. Okay. You're so right. Thank you for sharing that, by the way. That was. That's an important part of the book. And, yeah, it comes back to this place where she's 30 now. She is ready.

[Chelsea Dev]

But this is.

[Ione Skye]

I mean, this is so incredible. She and David aren't a match, but he's wildly rich. He's like, let's get married. I'll take care of you. It's all good from here. Now you have your child, and they go out to this dinner, and someone is asking her about. Say anything. And she talks about the movie. And on the way home, he says, you know, you're. You're not the star you once were. That movie was a long time ago.

[Chelsea Dev]

He's such a dick. I feel like she's doing the thing you said where she's not editorializing and saying, what a. She's just including so many moments and actions and lines of dialogue from him that all spell out, this guy is the worst.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. Which, look, I'm biased. There's so many ways to do a memoir, but that's my favorite type of writing because I, the reader, get to judge it. You know, I'm like, oh, this is, you know, as opposed to, like, it makes you feel like you're reading unbiased writing in some ways. Then obviously, you can never do that when you're writing a memoir, but it's. You're just laying out the facts.

[Chelsea Dev]

It also makes sense because he is still in her life because they share a child. And so she can't really be like, this guy sucked because it's like, you know, your. Your daughter's gonna read it, he's gonna read it, like, all these things. So you just. Just say, like, well, we were drawn to each other. He said this, and it's like drawing conclusions.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. I think she's like, this was a situation, but he is not a monster. They co parent Wonderfully, like, well, at least it sounds like. Yeah, this is what is incredible. She says to him after that night, she's like, we need to postpone the wedding because I don't actually know if we're supposed to be married. And then he's like, I will never recover from this. And she says, from putting off the wedding. And he's like, yes, from all of this. And he ends the relationship. Relationship. And she said, I was too scared to admit to those things and felt I'd made a terrible mistake by postponing the wedding. Kate, who is the daughter they have, could have had a mother and a father together under one roof for the rest of her life. How many stepfathers would I give her? Instead, I spent the rest of my pregnancy living civilly with David in the flawless, cursed by Vogue apartment because they took pictures for Vogue magazine announcing their marriage, which I'm gonna try and find a post. He was decorating it so beautifully. Bringing home an original drawing one week, a blue. I can't even. She's saying words of fancy things that I. I don't know how to pronounce it, but he's bringing home a bunch of art. And she said. One day, at seven months pregnant, I wept so violently in the shower that I worried I might hurt the baby. But I couldn't stop hearing my rough sobs, the echo of water splattering tile. I felt a rush of deja vu. What was this? What was I remembering? Then I understood. It wasn't my past I was repeating. It was my mom's. I was the echo. I was Enid all over again. A new life inside me, a dream left behind me. It's incredible writing. The next chapter is Song of the single mom, 2001 to 2006, and she's a single mom raising her child, co parenting, feeling as if she's living her mom's life, which is that you were married to a rock star. That was your destiny. But then it gets taken from you. But then, like I. I will say at the end of the book, I was not expecting it. I started crying at several parts.

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, wow.

[Ione Skye]

You know, she would put Kate to bed every night, and she said we would go backwards through her day and go through everything. We could have gone chronologically, but going backwards was the fun part. It was more than a game, though. It was a way to honor the day. The good feelings, the painful ones, the achievements, the stresses, the hurts, the big deals and the little details alike. Most of all, I did this so my daughter could get into the habit of processing her days instead of floating through them outside herself. Like I had as a girl. Like, that was the part of her that was, like, doing magical thinking or outside herself or, you know, not able to, like, process what was happening.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah.

[Ione Skye]

And she said, I wanted a husband. It was a husband I was looking for. And I felt a bit guilty about that, as if I were somehow letting down the queer community. But what can I say? I wanted a man in my life. So when Matthew Perry called me out of the blue, inviting me over for a sober drink, I went. And she goes and has mediocre sex with Matthew Perry as the news plays silently in the background. Because they'd done a movie together as kids.

[Chelsea Dev]

There's just so many times where she mentions a guy where she's like, and then this guy, this nice guy. They're all addicts. Robert Downey Jr. Matthew Perry. It's. That's the only type.

[Ione Skye]

River Phoenix.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes.

[Ione Skye]

Anthony. Oh, my God. I think, wow. Okay, I didn't catch that. Yeah, you're right. But I mean, it's just like, listen, it's 270. There's only one more story we're going to talk about until this episode is over. And, like, I just wasn't expecting, like, a Matthew Perry sex story. Like, I wasn't ready.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, yeah. She just will throw these in where she's like, oh, and by the way, I slept with this guy. You're like, what?

[Ione Skye]

No, she gave us the details of Matthew. It was amazing. She was like, neither of us gave our all. We were just like, whatever. So then she runs into Ben Lee at a party. Ben is an old friend of Adam's. They used to, like, hang out together when Ben was with Claire Danes. And like, they would like, she and Adam went to dinner with Ben and Claire. This is not. But similar to the Shania Twain swap that I'm obsessed with. And like, anyways, the story with Ben is what's going to end the book. And it's incredible because they have this mid date and she says. And they make out. And she says, that was pleasant. I said, after kind of like a.

[Chelsea Dev]

Day at the lake.

[Ione Skye]

I can't imagine how they scheduled a second date after that, but they do. And then the chemistry is like, crazy. She's like, I have the most incredible sex with Ben Lee. And she talks about him using a condom and, like, taking care of her. And she says to him, what changed between the first date and the second date?

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, right.

[Ione Skye]

And she said, I ran into adam Levine of Maroon 5. You guys yeah. And who.

[Chelsea Dev]

Who obviously respects women and is a relationship guru. Levine.

[Ione Skye]

Adam Levine. She said apparently Ben had been tripped out about dating a 36 year old divorce and mother. Just as I'd been tripped out about dating someone I met when he was a teenager. To ease his nerves before our date, he stopped by the sunset marquee for a drink. And who was sitting at the bar but Adam Levine. They knew each other a little bit. Ben ended up telling him about the this date. Nonsense, brother, said Adam Levine. He ordered two shots and gave Ben a five star rock star pep talk. By the time Ben met me at the restaurant, he was ready to go.

[Chelsea Dev]

Jesus.

[Ione Skye]

Okay, so they have great sex. The next day she texts them and she's like, again, please. And he doesn't write back. And she texts him five different times until finally she's like, you left your guitar at my house. Should I bring it over? And she brings it over to him and he says, listen, Ione, whatever you're feeling, I am not.

[Chelsea Dev]

I. I mean, I. Look, I think she's actually. You know what? I don't even know how to. How to articulate this. She is just so used to using her sexuality as a weapon and like a little honey trap and being like, now you're mine. And I think it just doesn't compute that someone may want to, like, talk to her and again, be a human and like, have some kind of connection.

[Ione Skye]

But that's where I think the writing is so beautiful, because that's exactly what was happening. And Ben says, I want to go slow. I don't just want to, like, fuck our way into a relationship. I go slow. I want to be here because we like each other and we talk to each other and she's like, like what? And then writes, maybe Ben's way calm and steady could be romantic too. It doesn't sound all that romantic to me until I thought of that moment and say anything. When Lloyd asked Diane, are you here because you need someone or because you need me? But this is her. She's been chasing that feeling of being chosen, of dating addicts, of, like, all this behavior that feels like lust and connection. That is such an important lesson when you learn that that's not what true intimacy is. And she literally learns it with Ben. And the book ends with her, like, meeting who becomes her husband for the rest of her life till this moment, and says, I didn't want to race ahead anymore. I wanted to savor every line, every page, every chapter. I couldn't wait to begin. And she becomes like, the person in this marriage, it's very sweet.

[Chelsea Dev]

And you can see, like, she changes who she is as a mother. She talks about that like. Like, she becomes kind of the steadying force that she had actually needed when she was a kid. I do think it's interesting how much she loves Enid and how much just, again, from the way the things. The facts she describes. Enid is a bad mom. Enid is not there for her. She does not give her stability. She does not protect her daughter. And that is the thing that I think that Ione kind of realizes by the end is, like, she actually does need to be a bummer sometimes, and she needs to be slow and steady, and she can't always be fun, wild, cool, hot, like.

[Ione Skye]

But, yeah, you know what? And I love that we see it differently, because I think it's clear. Enid had been through so much and did do a lot of really bad parenting, but also did a bunch of really great parenting, and it was a shit ton more than Donovan ever did. Oh, for sure. Like, there's just so many beautiful qualities to Enid next to these ugly ones. And for me, I think that's more true to motherhood. Yeah, I mean, I really good, perfect moms.

[Chelsea Dev]

I. I mean, my mom, you know, has a crazy story and went through a lot and abuse and a lot of crazy things, and so also made a lot of. Of crazy choices and dealt with a lot of, you know, things that I would say were, like, her own bad choices. Like, I mean, yeah, like, who was married with a family and being like you. Like, things like that, that you can be like, well, what did you expect? But I'm like. And so maybe also some motherhood choices that I'm like, maybe I wouldn't have chosen that choice. I would do differently. But it's always that context of, like. Like, well, look at what you were brought up with. Look at, like, how you're breaking these cycles and trying your best and giving so much love. But then I still think in a book like this, it's so interesting that as much as I think you're right, like, at least she was there. At least Enid was trying.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

Clearly still failing. And I. I don't know.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah, no, I. I completely agree with you. And truly doing this podcast, it's like, I don't know. I think it'll be like, five years in October has changed me and changed my point of view, because I definitely would have been on a different side of this, but I think I'm now in this moment where I feel like sometimes your parents is enacting abuse in a multitude of ways, emotionally abandonment, whatever, and the best choice is cutting them off, emancipating, cutting that person out of your life. But sometimes, especially with our moms, Moms, they lived through horrific years, and they were traumatized, and then they had to raise children in a world that had them up and told them up. And now we, as their daughters, slowly learning a little bit more, have to grow up with our moms who have also up us up.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, but.

[Ione Skye]

But also sometimes did not have the tools to do anything else. And we're trying their fucking hardest. And I think when I read about a mom who was trying their hardest and yet still, I don't know, marrying a porn star director, I. I just see it a little differently where I'm like, as much as Ione was fucked up, so was her mom, and what are we to do but, like, try and get better together? I don't know.

[Chelsea Dev]

I think maybe. Because I. I actually think we're not on different pages here. I think we're on the same page that I agree completely. I think it's maybe just you're emphasizing the like. Like, hey, let's. Let's understand. And that. And I'm like, yes, I think we should be both celebrating the fact that they did give their best and they gave love and they get all this. And I'm just like, also, I think there is.

[Ione Skye]

But also bad job here, here and here.

[Chelsea Dev]

But I also think, like, you can have both of, like, I don't know, loving someone and appreciating that they did do their absolute best and still acknowledging where maybe they made the wrong choice.

[Ione Skye]

That. Not. Not. First off, I'm shocked you're not in therapy, because that. That is. That is healing. Accepting the fact that the person who loves you most actually caused harm to you in many ways and acknowledging it was harmful, it was wrong, and they did it. And also that they loved you and did their best, and you can have love for them and also be like, what happened was absolutely not okay.

[Chelsea Dev]

Exactly. You can still acknowledge it and know it, but she did.

[Ione Skye]

That's the style of writing. She gave all the facts of the ways in it. Yes.

[Chelsea Dev]

And I like that. And I like that. Then at the end, you can see with the way she talks about kind of her own choices as a mother, that it's like, oh, I see how you are actually taking the things that worked and you are trying to do better. And I'm like, yes, I feel like that's all you can ever do as a parent is, like, kind of try to do better than the generation before you. And, like, no matter what, you're gonna mess up, but, like, you can just try to be like, I want to move the needle a little bit better.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Okay, so I'm not going to go into the epilogue because I brought it up a lot with Ione in this interview. And I'm actually going to play a clip for everyone because I just want them to hear. Everyone should hear it. Even if you're not going to get the subscriber episode, there are moments where you're like, yeah, I was still in my saving Anthony phase. And I would think, like, of course, because you're 17 and we're children then, and your brain isn't formed enough to sometimes make different decisions.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah, I just forgive myself when I was younger, when I. Stop. It's sort of when I was, like, married to Adam. And then I got really hard on myself also because I was the one, you know, behaving badly. So I guess also with Anthony, I was just like, this little, like, worried teenager.

[Ione Skye]

You're a kid. Okay, so if you want to hear the rest, join the Patreon. The episodes come to any app you listen on. They come straight to your app, and they're also ad free. Or if you're on Apple Podcasts, you can just become a subscriber. And all the bonus episodes go to your feed now. Chelsea, it is time for us to do the book dual test. First question. Was the author vulnerable in the sharing of her truth?

[Chelsea Dev]

Yes, absolutely.

[Ione Skye]

Yeah. 100. Second question. Was it entertaining to read?

[Chelsea Dev]

Oh, yeah.

[Ione Skye]

Riveting. I'm. We've been recording for two hours and ten minutes. Like, and we could have gone so much longer.

[Chelsea Dev]

It's.

[Ione Skye]

No.

[Chelsea Dev]

This is all I've wanted to talk about all week.

[Ione Skye]

Me. Same. I've been looking, and we had it early, so other people haven't read it yet. Okay, final question. Did reading this book elevate your life in any way?

[Chelsea Dev]

I would say yes. I would say there are things that I related to that made me, you know, think about my own life and, you know, in good and bad ways. And then also there were a lot of things I really didn't relate to that I kind of. It was fun to try to be like. Like, wow. Like, she's just such an interesting character again. I'm like, where's the movie about this person?

[Ione Skye]

Like, oh, I hope you get it now. Yeah.

[Chelsea Dev]

Yeah. So I. I really liked that. And Also, just on a pure entertainment level. I mean, it elevated my life because I feel like I. It was the juicy hot goss I was craving.

[Ione Skye]

It was the 90s fever dream that I, like, can't get over. Yeah. This book elevated my life in so many ways. One is that she loses everything twice. Adam, her marriage, then after, when she's a single mom, which is something she tried not to repeat her mom's life, and she did. And then she gets her life back. She gets herself back. And I. I need memoirs like that because, one, I have lost myself before, and two, I always get afraid that I'm gonna lose myself again because everything feels so scary and horrible sometimes. And you're like, what if I lose myself? And reading a book where it's like. Like, well, this is how you get yourself back. Like, it's just always so powerful to me. And the last thing I'll say is that the other way she elevated my life is that she wrote as a lifelong bookworm, educated through novels more than traditional schooling. Maybe it's no surprise that my inner narrator was always at work. And I was like, oh, this is it. This is like, the same with me, where, like, I'm going to read my way out of this. And she said, I believe a part of my mom still clings to her 60s daydream with Donovan, just as a part of me still mourns my 90s daydream with Adam. But I'm beginning to feel that grief shifting and lifting. And she has this dream where he turns to her and he says, hey, it's good to see you. And she said, can you ever forgive me? And she talks about how she wakes up smiling with relief. And she says, writing this book has been my way of surrendering my past as well as an act of self forgiveness. Finally, with love and a little fanfare, I'm letting my stories go. And I had. I had almost included this part at the end of my book of this journal entry I had written when I was a teenager being, like, so poetic. And I'd written, I wonder if I finally get to tell my stories, if I'll stop being my stories and I'll finally just get to be myself.

[Chelsea Dev]

Wow.

[Ione Skye]

And I just really thought about the power of, like, releasing your stories so that, like, you can grow and move on and, like, leave, leave, leave that heartbreak of Adam and all the, you know, all the things they think about in my life and, like, begin anew. And that's what this book left me feeling.

[Chelsea Dev]

I absolutely love that because so much of the time, these stories we tell and we tell and we hold on to. It's like, that's how you form your identity. And it's so brave to be like, what if I actually let myself grow and find new identities and just have that be one chapter?

[Ione Skye]

Yes. I love that so much. Oh, Chelsea, thank you so much for going ham on the show.

[Chelsea Dev]

Thank you for spending all day with me.

[Ione Skye]

I was so, so happy that you were gonna be the guest for this when the book turned out to be this good. Please tell everyone where they can listen to your podcast, find you on Instagram, follow you all the things.

[Chelsea Dev]

So my podcast is called Podstruck a rom com rewind. It's on Apple, it's on Spotify. Please listen. We look back at, you know, the good, the bad, the totally sexist, all the tropes that, you know, raised us all to, you know, be movie lovers and, you know, taught a generation of women, you're not ugly, you just have glasses. Beyond that, if you want to follow me, I am at Chelsea Underscore Davison on Instagram. But this was a true delight. Chelsea.

[Ione Skye]

I just adore you, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Dev]

Likewise. Likewise. And you know what? You're pretty cool for a sneaker model.

[Ione Skye]

A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm, where it is easy to download audiobook books and support local bookshops. And right now you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code Trash. That's right, Trash. T R A S H. Two audiobooks for the price of one at Libro fm. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.