Lauren Bacall’s Memoir By Myself And Then Some (with Wes Perry)

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Episode: Lauren Bacall’s Memoir By Myself And Then Some (with Wes Perry)
Release Date: December 6, 2024
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Wes Perry

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast, host Chelsea Devantez delves deep into the life and legacy of Hollywood icon Lauren Bacall through her memoir, By Myself and Then Some. Joined by returning guest Wes Perry, the discussion navigates the glamorous highs and tumultuous lows of Bacall's journey in the spotlight.

Overview of Lauren Bacall’s Memoir

Chelsea introduces By Myself and Then Some, highlighting its origin in 1978 and its 2005 reprint, which added an extra chapter covering the subsequent 25 years of Bacall's life. She emphasizes Bacall's status as a last star of Hollywood's golden age, renowned for classic films like To Have and Have Not and her legendary marriage to Humphrey Bogart.

Chelsea Devontez [00:57]: “But I just genuinely do not know why this was recommended so many times. It's like, boggling my mind because I felt like. I feel like I wilted in this book's grasp.”

Early Life and Hollywood Beginnings

Wes Perry reflects on Bacall's early years, noting her single-parent upbringing and the significant absence of her father until his brief reappearance during her Broadway career.

Wes Perry [10:10]: “I really think my main takeaway is that, you know, the first page talks about her sitting in a movie theater smoking an entire pack of cigarettes, watching a Bette Davis movie.”

Bacall's transformation from Betty Bacall to Lauren Bacall is discussed, with emphasis on her modeling career and the unique "look" she perfected, which became her signature style despite facing antisemitism.

Relationship with Humphrey Bogart

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Bacall's romance with Humphrey Bogart. Wes describes their relationship as a classic Hollywood love story, albeit with notable imbalances and red flags.

Chelsea Devontez [15:08]: “They had a bond. I mean.”

Wes questions the depth of Bacall's portrayal of Bogart, suggesting that modern perspectives might uncover complexities not fully explored in the memoir.

Wes Perry [15:21]: “I wonder if this book had come out more recently, if. And if. If she was still alive, if. If perhaps there'd be a deeper angle on the relationship.”

Despite Bacall's depiction of Bogart as a soulmate, the podcast hosts express skepticism about the idyllic nature of their union, considering Bogart's existing marriages and drinking issues.

Stand Against McCarthyism

Bacall's courage in standing up against McCarthyism is lauded as a testament to her strong character. Both Chelsea and Wes draw parallels between the historical context and present-day Hollywood challenges.

Wes Perry [21:48]: “And I think what people get out of this book, is that spirit, like of how strong willed she is.”

This act not only highlights Bacall's integrity but also resonates with contemporary listeners facing similar industry pressures.

Later Relationships and Life

Post-Bogart, Bacall's relationships, particularly with Frank Sinatra and Jason Robards, are scrutinized. Wes provides insights into Sinatra's behavior, portraying him as a challenging figure despite his iconic status.

Wes Perry [38:27]: “He's the rat king.”

Chelsea shares her frustration with Bacall's depiction of these relationships, feeling that the memoir lacks depth and emotional introspection during these periods.

Reflections and Critique

The hosts critically assess the memoir's writing style, noting its dense nature and lack of vulnerability. Wes rates the memoir's honesty at a five out of ten, while Chelsea echoes feelings of being overwhelmed by the sheer volume of details without meaningful takeaways.

Chelsea Devontez [60:07]: “I'd give it a no.”

However, the podcast acknowledges Bacall's unwavering spirit and resilience, traits that resonate deeply despite the memoir's shortcomings.

Conclusion

In wrapping up, Wes and Chelsea engage in the "Book Dill Test," evaluating the memoir's vulnerability, entertainment value, and life elevation. While opinions diverge on its emotional depth, both agree that Bacall's legacy as a figure who exudes strength and elegance remains influential.

Wes Perry [60:43]: “It made me think of the ladies who lunch as an art and that I Think the older I get, that's something that I really want to take to really appreciate friendships and to appreciate life.”

Chelsea concludes by celebrating Bacall's enduring impact, capturing her unique blend of glamour and resilience.

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Notable Quotes

• Chelsea Devantez [00:57]: "If you are in my generation, perhaps your first vision of her was as Barbra Streisand's mother in The Mirror Has Two Faces."

• Wes Perry [10:10]: “I really think my main takeaway is that, you know, the first page talks about her sitting in a movie theater smoking an entire pack of cigarettes, watching a Bette Davis movie."

• Wes Perry [21:48]: “And I think what people get out of this book, is that spirit, like of how strong willed she is.”

• Chelsea Devantez [60:07]: “I'd give it a no.”

• Wes Perry [60:43]: “It made me think of the ladies who lunch as an art and that I Think the older I get, that's something that I really want to take to really appreciate friendships and to appreciate life.”

Final Thoughts

By Myself and Then Some offers a glimpse into Lauren Bacall's storied life, though not without its flaws. Glamorous Trash provides a nuanced critique, balancing admiration for Bacall's legacy with honest appraisal of her memoir's execution. For listeners intrigued by the interplay of glamour and grit in celebrity memoirs, this episode offers valuable insights and perspectives.

Transcript

[Chelsea Devontes]

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[Wes Perry]

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[Chelsea Devontes]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dig into all of the glamour and all of the trash. If you've ever referenced Mariah Carey in therapy, then this might be the podcast for you. I'm your host, Chelsea Devontes. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And this week we are book clubbing the memoir of Lauren Bacall. Titled By Myself and Then Some, it was published in 1978 and then republished in 2005 with an extra chapter about the last previous 25 years that followed the original printing. And that is the and then some part of the title because you know it was added on. So Lauren Bacall is a true Hollywood legend. If you are in my generation, perhaps your first vision of her was as Barbra Streisand's mother in the Mirror Has Two Faces. She also starred in so many films. Designing Woman, Murder on the Orient Express, to have and have not, and the infamous how to Marry a Millionaire with Marilyn Monroe. She is one of the last stars of the golden age of Hollywood and was also wildly famous for her marriage to Humphrey Bogart, known as Bogey. And though they were Only together for 11 years, their marriage is a huge part of her history. We've kind of been on an old Hollywood kick over here with our memoir choices and this one had been recommended a lot, so we added it to the queue and there's also a trigger warning to know for abuse and talk of suicide. Now as we dive in, though Lauren Bacall is known for so many great works, I feel like it's incredibly important that you hear this particular great work. It is a coffee commercial. I dare Say it is just as iconic as how to Marry a Millionaire. It is only possible to be so iconic in a coffee commercial if you are Lauren Bacall. So please enjoy this audio, and I hope you think of how she pronounces decaffeinated for the rest of time.

[Wes Perry]

My favorite time of day is night. I love curling up with a rich cup of coffee. You think coffee and sleep don't mix? They do if it's High Point, it's decaffeinated. And the flavor's marvelous. You see, High Point has a special way of capturing flavor. Deep brewed flavor.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Mmm.

[Wes Perry]

It's a coffee lover's dream.

[Chelsea Devontes]

My guest today is a returning guest. So beloved. He is so beloved. Whenever he is on this podcast, I get flooded with requests and comments begging for him to return. He did our Holly Madison episode and our RuPaul episode, which, you know, we did in casual drag. It is a dear friend of mine. We've known each other since we were, like, 21. Please welcome back to the podcast Wes Perry.

[Wes Perry]

Hi. Hi, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Hello.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah, 21. I think you were at my 21st birthday party.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's right. Which means I met you when you were 20, because can you believe it? You know, I. I had earned that invite a little, you know, and we were making cake in your kitchen. Okay. Wow. So we're not in drag this. We're on a zoom. But I want to say, have you heard the High Point decaffeinated commercial that Lauren Bacall has done before?

[Wes Perry]

Oh, my God. I had forgotten about it until you just were mentioning it. It's that voice. That voice.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I know. I heard it. And I felt immediately compelled to remix that with Jessie Spano's caffeine pill monologue from Saved by the Bell and do a drag piece. I was instantly like, I have to do drag again. I have to do this remix. So I feel like we're sort of in drag today in that, like, we might be lip syncing decaffeinated as we go.

[Wes Perry]

And I've got a cold brew, so that's not.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Okay. Okay, listen, we're in the moment. Okay? So, Wes, this book has been recommended constantly. Finally, we chose it. I told our producer, Christina, I said, it should be Wes, because I feel like your analyzation and recapping of true art is a high art in and of itself. Like, when I think of you, I think of, like, glamour. I think of the Hollywood age. I feel like an appreciation for old Hollywood. And then I sent you the book, and I will hold back on my Feelings on the book. But what did you think of the book?

[Wes Perry]

I thought it was a bit like drinking from a fire hose.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Okay. Thank you.

[Wes Perry]

It was a lot. It was basically name dropping and death.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yes.

[Wes Perry]

Sort of over and over again. Yeah. But I think she's such a classy. That's the word that just struck me that she's so classy and just her life is so incredible. But it was a lot.

[Chelsea Devontes]

It was a lot. Yeah. I am hoping you'll continue to be my friend. I hope you'll come back after I've done this to you. I do not. I just genuinely do not know why this was recommended so many times. It's like, boggling my mind because I felt like. I feel like I wilted in this book's grasp. Like this was. It wasn't bludgeoned, but it was just like, so many words and details, and none of them. You know what it was? It was how they call memoirs. Like. Oh, it's just like your diary. You just wrote a bunch of stuff down. Right. This is where those stereotypes come from.

[Wes Perry]

I think I never really like to read a lot of celebrity memoirs, sort of before you started this wonderful podcast. Because I think that a lot of them, I don't really like to. I'm kind of a slow reader. Like, actually reading with my eyes.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

And so I think I have always had trouble with certain memoirs that I'm like, this person just sat in front of a tape recorder and talked and then it was transcribed.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

Because it's really not written to be eye friendly.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. And also, if there was an editor fired. Jail. Jail for you.

[Wes Perry]

So I started listening to this. But. But when you started your podcast, I had a little audio Audible subscription.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

And I started to get these podcasts and I Real. Or these. These book. These memoirs as the audiobooks. And I realized that's the way to do it. Have the person just talk at ya.

[Chelsea Devontes]

So did. Is there an audio book of Lauren Bacall?

[Wes Perry]

Yes. So this you can get if you're a premium Spotify member. If you're lucky. It's free. And I'd say if you have interest in the book, I would enjoy it that way because it just comes at you. You get to hear that wonderful deep voice. But, you know, when I finally got ahold of the actual book, there are no chapters.

[Chelsea Devontes]

There are no chapters. Chapters.

[Wes Perry]

And I was about halfway through the book on the audio and. Which has chapters.

[Chelsea Devontes]

What?

[Wes Perry]

The audiobook has chapters. The real book does not.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Oh, my God.

[Wes Perry]

Chelsea. I could not find My place.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Of course you couldn't, because there were no motherfucking chapters.

[Wes Perry]

Because I have never seen a more dense book.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I. When I opened it and saw there were no chapters, I was infuriated. It is also 500 pages. What is the movie? Is it Bird? Birdman? It is Birdman. Okay. Okay. It is an incredible movie.

[Wes Perry]

It came out, like, 10 years ago.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. Like Michael Keaton, Emma Stone. It's all made to seem like it's one long shot. It never gives you the equivalent of chapter titles of a book inside the movie. And it's an amazing movie, but when you end the movie, you're like, oh, my God, I'm exhausted.

[Wes Perry]

Yes. It is sort of like she sat down next to you at the airport or at the coffee shop and started talking. And at first you're like, oh, my. How lucky am I? Oh, wow.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And then she keeps going and never takes a breath. Never, never organized it into thoughts, into moments, into, like, the human eye. The human brain needs chapter breaks. We need cutaways we can make.

[Wes Perry]

But she's not a writer. Right. She's a performer.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

Right. And that's kind of what this book is. It feels kind of like a solo.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Show, one that I would walk out of and make eye contact as I left. Okay, so let's. Let's get into her childhood. So there were some parts of this book that I did, like, re. Engage with, where I'd be like, ooh, this is like a nice wave. I really like this information. So I feel like let's just hit. Let's just hit the good waves and then bring something up if I'm about to skip it that you loved. But in her childhood, she's mostly raised by her single mom, abandoned by her father, who will never come back until he shows up when she's in her 30s and he has called a theater and asked for 12 seats to her Broadway show and is like, I'm Lauren Bacall's dad. And she's like, no, don't give him those seats. So he's mostly gone from her life. And she gets the name Bacall from her mom. When her mom divorces, she takes another family name. She changes her name with her, and it's originally Betty Bacall is her name, which. I like that name. I'm surprised that Hollywood changed it to Lauren. What do you think?

[Wes Perry]

Well, there were already were so many Bettes.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Right.

[Wes Perry]

I mean, and of course, her whole thing is that she's obsessed with Bette Davis.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's right. Which I Love.

[Wes Perry]

And she then meets Bette Davis with a friend who is also named Betty. So I feel like there's just too many Bettys.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Too many Betties.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah, too many Betties.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And she's clearly, like, she's in some sort of lane where, like, a friend knows a friend who can bring her to the hotel room of Bette Davis. And, like, as a teenager, she's like, hello, I love you. And Bette Davis is like, good luck with your career. And, like, that was kind of it. But, I mean, Bette Davis is a great idol to have.

[Wes Perry]

I really think my main takeaway is that, you know, the first page talks about her sitting in a movie theater smoking an entire pack of cigarettes, watching a Bette Davis movie. That's really the main image that stuck with me is her as this teenage girl smoking cigarettes, wanting to be Bette Davis. And that's kind of what she became.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. And I wish the whole book was written in that tone. That's a book I would have read.

[Wes Perry]

I guess what I would have to add here is when you guys invited me to do this, I was thinking Lauren Bacall. Lauren Bacall. And the movies that she's in are not my favorite old Hollywood movies, but they're ones, of course, that anyone with a little bit of film history would know. But the thing that really sold me, I was like, applause. The Broadway musical.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's what got you.

[Wes Perry]

That she's in, which is based off of All About Eve. And her character, basically, is the Bette Davis character.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Oh. Oh, that's amazing.

[Wes Perry]

The thing that she's most famous for on the stage is basically being in a musical where she basically plays Bette Davis.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's incredible. Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

And then I went back and did the whole history, and I mean, her very first movie has one of. Not one of. Has, like, the most famous lines.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Tell me.

[Wes Perry]

Of all Hollywood.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Oh, to have and have not. Yeah. What lines?

[Wes Perry]

You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together and blow.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I actually did not know that line.

[Wes Perry]

And she was 19 years old when she was saying this.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And. And if you missed it, Wes said that was her first movie. Her first movie ever is to have and have not as the lead opposite Humphrey Bogart. I mean, that's unbelievable.

[Wes Perry]

And their chemistry was so magnetic that they basically just kept making movies and making marriage.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Well, to get us to that movie. Just a couple of things. She becomes a model. She goes to a lot of art schools, a lot of dancing classes, and becomes a model where she perfects what she calls in her book and what I assumed other people called the look. The look, which is really something that is pretty unflattering on everyone except Lauren Bacall.

[Wes Perry]

Where you, like, we're looking at each other. Can we try the look?

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

I don't look good.

[Chelsea Devontes]

It's not my.

[Wes Perry]

I look like I'm gonna throw up.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I look like a demon. But she looks incredibly sexy. It's where she, like, pushes her chin to her neck and sort of just like looks up. And a big part of her history is that she is Jewish and experiences so much antisemitism, especially around her looks of hearing. I'll read this on page 33. Someone said when she's, like, trying to model, what are you? That's when, not knowing she meant ancestry, not religion. I said, I'm Jewish. That's when she said, oh, but you don't look it at all. I'd like to meet the man who decided that people do or do not look Jewish. What the hell does that mean anyway? Is it the American penchant for pinning things down, categorizing, for pigeonholing people? Whatever it is, it's wrong. Audrey's idea, I suppose, was that I didn't have a large nose and I wasn't ugly. The standard genteel concept of Jewish looks at the time. She wasn't nasty, unpleasant, or even bigoted. Just very surprised. So obviously that's horrifying. And she really experiences a lot of anti Semitism throughout her career, including when she meets Howard. Do you remember Howard's last name? He's the head of the studio.

[Wes Perry]

No, neither do I.

[Chelsea Devontes]

But Howard, who's the guy who gets her the ticket to Hollywood, who gives her her first seven year contract and directs her into have and have not.

[Wes Perry]

And is also an anti Semite.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. Was also an anti Semite and said anti Jewish things in front of her. And so she was constantly hiding that she was Jewish and trying to figure out, like, when she falls in love with Humphrey, it's like months before she's like, by the way, do you care that I'm Jewish? And when he's like, no, it seals the deal of them being in love. So I want to read how she meets Humphrey or how not how she meets Humphrey Bogart, but, like, how the love affair starts in her own words. She says, I don't know how it happened. It was almost imperceptible. And I want you to put a pin in that. Put a pin in that sentence. We're going to come Back to it later, but she said it was about three weeks into the picture. At the end of the day, I had one more shot. Was sitting at my dressing room table in the portable dressing room combing my hair. Bogey came in to bid me goodnight. He was standing behind me. We were joking as usual, when suddenly he leaned over, put his hand under my chin, and kissed me. It was impulsive. He was a bit shy. No lunging wolf tactics. He took a worn package of matches out of his pocket, asked me to put my phone number on the back. I did. And you're like, oh, my gosh. Okay, so she's 19, he is 45, and he's married. And this is told like the. I found her telling of it to be like, isn't this the greatest love story ever? And I just kept being like, he's 45 and married.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah. I. I wonder if this book had come out more recently, if. And if. If she was still alive, if. If perhaps there'd be a deeper angle on the relationship. But I would say, yeah, the main takeaway from this book was that she fell in love with Humphrey Bogart and she's still in love with them until the very end.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And that was a perfect relationship of two soulmates. Is her takeaway. Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

That even though he was married, you know, the way again, she paints everything as being sort of very classy. This was something that he had never done before. And they really took their time. And I don't have any way to check this, but I. I did get some little red flags. I thought, has he really never slept with the co Star before? Has he really? I don't know.

[Chelsea Devontes]

He had been married three times. Mayo is the name of the wife he's currently married to when he's cheating on her. Which. Can we give it up for the name Mayo? I think it's a nickname. But he was like. It's like. And then Mayo. Yeah. And she's like, mayo drank at home.

[Wes Perry]

While Lauren's giving him the look.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, the look. And they're like, Mayo threw furniture and had moods. And, like, we all felt bad for him being married. Yeah. Moody Mayo. And he's gonna leave her. He's gonna go back to her. He is one time going to hide Lauren Bacall in the bottom of a boat while his wife is on the top of the boat and they're hanging out. And he's like, as soon as she leaves, you get to come out. And then we have the boat. And she's like, wasn't it romantic? And it's like, no, he's such a good guy. He's such a good guy.

[Wes Perry]

He's such a good guy. You know, the word that she really brings up a lot is the word character, and that she feels she has a good character and that Humphrey Bogart really helped her have good character. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

So I guess it's like, you can be a rat, but be a classy rat.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. And listen, rat, as in the Rat Pack. There we go. Let's talk about the Rat Pack really quick. So when I did the Instagram story for this book, which is on the glamorous Trash Talk Instagram account, if you guys want to read along with me, someone said, in the book, did she talk about how she came up with the name the Rat Pack? And I was like, no, not at all.

[Wes Perry]

She skipped over some important things like that big story.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. A huge story. And so I looked it up, and the places where I found information would be like, you know, Hollywood lover at Blogspot Dot whatever. So I don't know. Reputable sources, really reputable source. But the story being that the Rat Pack wasn't from Frank Sinatra. It was Humphrey Bogart and his friends, which included Frank Sinatra. And one time, after a trip to Vegas, they came back and Lauren Bacall supposedly said, y'all look like rats. You look like a pack of rats. And then after Bogart's death, they started calling it the Rat Pack. I don't know. But that wasn't in this book.

[Wes Perry]

It's such a good story. Whether it's true or not almost doesn't matter.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. Yeah. I was sort of like, oh, that's what I prefer it to be.

[Wes Perry]

But I guess that's. Thank you for bringing that up, because I guess that's another image that kind of stuck with me, is that she's a guy's girl.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

And that she feels very comfortable with these kind of older gentlemen that she sees as having fine characters, but that others may see as alcoholics.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I would say that's a perfect way to put this. She puts in the book, he's still gone back to Mayo. And he gets drunk, and he calls her, and he's like, it's three in the morning. He's like, hello, baby. This is in the book. Hello, baby. Where are you? Where are you calling? And she's like, where are you calling from? He said, I'm at home. I miss you, baby. The next voice I heard said, listen, you Jewish bitch, who's going to wash his socks? Are you. Are you going to take care of him. I was numb. So Mayo had picked up the other line. Then Humphrey Bogart's like, hang up the phone, Mayo, I'm talking to my girlfriend. And then she's like, oh, my God, your wife's anti Semitic as well. And then it just. Finally he leaves her and they're together and Lauren literally writes like, yay, he finally left her. He finally left her. Our life could begin. We were soulmates. And to answer the question, are you going to wash his socks? Yes. The answer was yes. She kind of abandons her career to become Bogie's wife and focus on him, even though her career had kind of only barely begun. She said the next few years, my life revolved entirely around Bogey. Though I worked a little, there was no doubt what took priority. We both changed as our lives together grew closer. We were so close. And there was never a notion in anyone's mind that anything or anyone could come between us. Our commitment was a life commitment.

[Wes Perry]

They had a bond. I mean.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, I. The thing is though, is that in the book you kind of. Well, tell me how you read this. I felt like she was sort of like I was being a good wife. I was learning his drinking moods, his angry moods, when to bring things up, how to suggest things instead of giving my opinion. But also all these happy times. But then also he's like, every weekend we go on the boat, it's the boat, the boat, the boat. We love my boats. And she's like, God, I gotta go boating again. But then also she's like, I loved it. And it was the happiest time in my life.

[Wes Perry]

I guess I feel that a lot of celebrities I think are like weird, isolated assholes. And so that's kind of what she's describing.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, you're right. She's describing a 46, 47 year old man and his 20 year old wife. And he's like, come on the boat. This is what we do now. This is our life, which is our life. And it is a. You know, it's. There's the press, there's the fame. She's like the it girl now with this role and being his wife. And then I, I will say a part where the book picked up for me is on page 177 when she gets into McCarthyism. Yes, and I've been reading about McCarthyism a bunch lately because of Lucille Ball and I don't know, because I sat through the movie Oppenheimer. I'm curious. So basically what happens is that she and Bogey and several other Hollywood actors take a huge stand against the committee which is run by Ginger, Roger's mother, amongst many other people who are saying, like, we get to find out if you're a communist. And if you are, you deserve punishment. You're blacklisted, you'll never work in Hollywood again. Everyone is losing their careers, everyone's afraid to say anything. And she and all these other people take this huge stand to try and stop this from happening, saying it is unconstitutional.

[Wes Perry]

And I would say that's maybe the best example of, I think of the character that she's talking about that I do think that he can be maybe a bit of a bad influence. But I think ultimately that's like the good to stand up against the government like that. I don't know. That to me seems like good moral character.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I agree.

[Wes Perry]

He's a little rational at home.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, I agree. And also it was a huge deal to do that. Especially when so many people were like losing their livelihoods over saying anything. Of course, then they had to come out and say, like, we are also not communists. And Lauren herself like writes, you know, there's like this whole letter about why she's standing up that she like puts in the newspaper. And she said, like, I didn't realize how political I was. And she'll be political the rest of her life kind of starting here. And do you see any similarities between McCarthyism and Hollywood then and what is going on in Hollywood now?

[Wes Perry]

Oh, totally, totally. As I was, as I was listening, I was definitely thinking, wow, this is a lot more timely than when this came out.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I know. And every time I read about it, it's hard cause it's not a one to one. But the sort of intense nature and stakes of like who says what and how that goes was really making me think of right now.

[Wes Perry]

You know, we've talked about that. You've actually been, you know, requested to read this book. Right. That clearly people that listen to the podcast have enjoyed this book. Right. And I think what people get out of this, what I imagine that people would get out of this book, is that spirit, like of how strong willed she is. That even with all the adversity of people dying and you know, all the toughness of Hollywood, that she persists.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's a beautiful point. Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

So I think in our times as things are shifting and moving and I think I really took away the strength of character that she has and I.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Found that very admirable and the strength to speak out knowing she could lose so much and how young she was and how she still knew that that was the right thing to do. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be right back. Thrive Cosmetics is my favorite makeup. They have thousands of five star reviews, they're cruelty free, and they have my brand new favorite product that I have used every single day since I got it. It is their brilliant eye brightener, the shade Stella. I use this in conjunction with their Liquid Lash extensions mascara, and it is gorgeous. I get so many compliments. It truly highlights your eyes and creates the most beautiful eyeshadow that has depth. Brighten your holiday look with Thrive Cosmetics luxury beauty that gives back. Right now, you can get an exclusive 20% off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com glamorous trash that's Thrive Cosmetics. C a u s e m e t dash I c s dot com glamorous trash for 20 off your first order, go get that brilliant eye brightener shade Stella. The holidays are about spending time with your loved ones and creating magical memories.

[Wes Perry]

That will last a lifetime.

[Chelsea Devontes]

So whether it's family and friends you haven't seen in a while or those.

[Wes Perry]

Who you see all the time, share holiday magic this season with an ice cold Coca Cola.

[Chelsea Devontes]

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[Wes Perry]

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[Chelsea Devontes]

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[Wes Perry]

Terms apply. Visit uscellular.com for details.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation. Well, very quickly after that, she takes a pregnancy test. And this is so long ago that it is the rabbit test, which this podcast taught me was the test where a rabbit dies in order to let a woman know if she's pregnant. And she is. Yeah, yeah, I know. Horrifying. I'm not going into more details, but they live in another episode where I was, like, screaming, finding this out. But basically, she goes home, she tells Bogey, she's like, I'm pregnant. And she said they had the biggest fight of their entire marriage. And he confesses and he apologizes the next day. And she does the thing where she's like, well, of course he wanted a child. Don't worry. And it's like, I mean, he didn't. But he basically says, I don't want to lose you to a baby. I want your undivided attention. I need you to listen to me, and I want to be able to come home and talk to you in the evenings. I don't want you paying attention to a baby. And she promises him that nothing will change and that she will make it work. And she's literally like, I told him I would leave the baby and go on the boat on weekends, but not every weekend. So she worked it out. And then, according to her, he really loves the kids and are glad that they have them. They end up having two kids. She writes this. She said around this time, her mom is getting married to Lee Goldberg, Marshal of the city of New York. So she has this, like, later in life, perfect marriage. According to Lauren, which I loved, she's pregnant. She gets a call from a gossip columnist as she's going into labor, saying, we heard Bogey had a child with another woman. Is that true? As she is having contractions, and she's like, no, it is not true. Hangs up, goes to the hospital, is like, bogey, can you believe that happened? He's like, what a trashy woman. Let's move on. Another, you know, red flag. And then she has her child. And she writes, there was so much going on in 1948. Bogey went on a boat race one weekend. I will never forget how much I missed him. I was so much in love with that man that when he left, I felt a pain in my heart. I actually did. He was so much my life that I literally couldn't think of anything else. Had to catch my breath when he went away. Whenever I hear the word happy now, I think of then I lived the full meaning of the word every day since then. It has been elusive, pretty, heartbreaking.

[Wes Perry]

I'll jump in here to say that I think the other thing that maybe people take away from this book is all the grief in this book, right? That it really. It's gonna start with him and then.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Kind of keep going. But also, I mean, also the grief of happiness. Happiness has been elusive to her ever since not being with Bogey. And Bogey is only 11 years of her life. We're gonna come back to the definition of happy at the end of the book. But when they are together, they go and shoot the movie the African Queen in Africa, where they become friends with Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn. There wasn't a lot of Katharine and Spence tea, just that they were lovely. Any gems from Katharine Hepburn that you took Away.

[Wes Perry]

Oh, my goodness, I do love. Once I finally got the book and I could look at the pictures, which was the best part of the printed.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Book, beyond the best part.

[Wes Perry]

There is a work of art that Katharine Hepburn made for her when she came to see her on Broadway, which I was like, I love that Katharine Hepburn just lives in a cottage with a big go away sign on the front and just paints her friends pictures.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, you're right. That is. And listen, Katharine Hepburn's book has been recommended a lot. And I gotta tell you, I need. I. Now, I don't trust anything now. I'm really going to need. I'm going to need like 100 recommendations to do a book, but maybe that one's coming. So then here's another part of the book that was so peculiar to me. She gets involved with the campaign of Adlai Stevenson, and he is a governor, and she gets really, really activated in his campaign. And she said my choices up until then had been bogey or work. Now they had expanded to a political life, the bettering of the world. And then below, she said, it wasn't that I was dissatisfied with Bogey or loved him any less. It was that Stevenson could help a different, unknown, obviously dormant part of me grow. Bogie was fully aware of my state. Stevenson had affected him in the same way. And then later, it just. She's like, he would flirt with me, I would flirt with him. It was like I wanted to, like, be his partner in life, but platonically. I couldn't bear to have him vanish when he lost. I was devastated. I was like, what happened here? Is it. What happened here?

[Wes Perry]

I guess what I kind of think is I wonder, you know, what would have happened to her relationship if Humphrey hadn't passed away. Right.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah.

[Wes Perry]

Like, she is able to look back on, you know, those years as being so perfect. But what if. What if she had started to have affairs and what if their relationship, you know, and they just ebbed and flowed because he dies. It's like, crystallized in this, like, perfect little, you know, memory, you know. But I think this is kind of showing us, like, I think he had trained her, and here she is kind of doing what he trained her to do.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Fascinating. I think that's right. I really wonder how it would have ebbed and flowed throughout the years. Well, she shoots how to Marry a Millionaire with Marilyn Monroe, which every memoir has said this to varying degrees, but just that Marilyn was the saddest, loneliest, most insecure person people had met, and that that's how she's like, we barely talked on the movie except for once. And she said Marilyn was frightened, insecure, trusted only her coach and was always late. During our scenes, she'd look at my forehead instead of my eyes. At the end of a take, she'd look at her coach standing behind the director for approval. If the head shake was no, she'd insist on another take. A scene often went 15 or more takes, which meant I'd have to be good in all of them and no one knew which one would be used. Not often irritating. And yet I couldn't dislike Marilyn. She had no meanness in her, no bitchery. So, yeah, it's like, very sweet and very sad of Marilyn Monroe, which fits everything we know.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And then Bogey gets cancer, and that's when.

[Wes Perry]

Yes, that's when the grief and the kind of endless mourning begins.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. And I really felt, even in the writing of this period of time where he's going through treatments and trying to stay alive, that she really dissociated or detached, like, it really felt like she was. And she even said, like, I never thought about the fact that he was going to die. I just, like, went forward. I never just. I never even took it as an option, even though it's, like, obviously happening. And so I think she, like, wasn't mentally prepared beforehand, and I think she tried to run from it the moment it happened. And another, like, very nostalgized, perfect moment of this relationship is that his last words to her have been published as goodbye, kid, because she was running to drop the kids off, and she said that it has been published as, like, goodbye, kid. But he also uttered, hurry back soon. And it wasn't said in this, like, big, grandiose way. It was just his regular.

[Wes Perry]

But it's because that's what their black and white movies had. These, like, incredible goodbye lines. Again, just put those lips together, you know? So I think, yeah, it's so easy for the public to imagine it. So much more dramatic than it was. As she says in the book, he was just saying goodbye as if he had said it every other time.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. And calling, like, young, hot women kid and buddy, Bye kid. You know, like. And that being his nickname for her. You're right. And she is left with two young kids at 32 years old, seemingly believing her life is over because she was so in love with him and so not prepared to have her husband pass.

[Wes Perry]

And again, I think. And then the memoir goes on. Right. And I think that's probably what people are identifying with, you know, watching this person who, you know, this big, beautiful, gorgeous movie star, 50ft tall on the screen, you know, but that she has to deal with grief and death, you know, just like the rest of us. Especially recently. Right.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, I guess I. And I guess the ways in which. I think you're right. I think that's the part people are relating to. And the part that I really didn't is that she really never processes it. She goes through it because you have to. Life continues and it continues, but I didn't feel it was continuing with great thought or takeaways.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah. And I guess what I would say is sort of after he passes away, there's a lot of her talking about how much she enjoys spending time with people and that she makes time. That she likes to be very European and have long lunches and have large groups of people and sort of talk and tell stories. And so I think that's a large part of what her life was. It reminds me very much of Elaine Stritch. I think a lot of her life was just getting together with gay guys to have drinks and bullshit.

[Chelsea Devontes]

This sounds like a great life.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah. We should all be so lucky to wear furs and live in Manhattan and be a lady who lunches. Right?

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's right.

[Wes Perry]

So I think she really was like a lady who lunches. And I think what you're describing is there's not a lot of depth. There's a lot in here, but there's not a lot of depth. And I think it kind of. It doesn't get past the ladies who lunch storytelling. You know, it doesn't give you anything deeper. These stories have been told over drinks for years.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Absolutely. And to compare it to Lucille Ball's memoir, which I recently read, which is equally as dry as this and a little bit lacking in emotion. Lucille Ball had takeaways constantly. And I realized that introspection, that, like, here's the meaning of this, or here's what I wanna pass on from these details I've listed is so important to a memoir.

[Wes Perry]

To have. To not to feel satisfied.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yes. And to have a reason. You have told the reader this story. Not just like. I mean, there are times in this book where she's like, then there was a dinner where I decided to make it ham. And then I grabbed the ham. And then the ham was in, like, a. Had some weird paper on it. I put that hand down. Ham down. Now, our friend John was there. John, what a laugh. And he brought. He was drinking a drink. And I was like, should I make this hand? And it's Just like on. And you're like, ah, like, yeah, it was a lot. But really immediately after Bogie's death, this is how this paragraph starts. It's unreal. Once I was home, Frank and I became a steady pair. That is Frank, as in Frank Sinatra, who has previously been introduced in the book as her and Bogie's very close friend who is there throughout his sickness, and just a very good friend of Bogey's and both of theirs. And she writes this sentence. I can't really remember how it all began. There must have been some special feeling alive between Frank and me from earlier days. Okay, I don't know if this is what I pulled out earlier.

[Wes Perry]

Okay.

[Chelsea Devontes]

The day she and Bogey get together, what does she say? I can't really remember how it happened. It just happened. Now, Frank Sinatra. I can't really remember how it all began. Frank Sinatra, also taken. He's also with another woman in this moment. And Bogey has just died, who is his good friend. And they began this relationship, which is. I think it really goes to that introspection of like, you're sort of out of your body for this or out of your brain as this thing happens.

[Wes Perry]

You know what this all reminded me of is what happened with Carrie Fisher's dad and Elizabeth Taylor.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yes, 100%.

[Wes Perry]

And it's all that sort of same thing. So you know what? Carrie Fisher has that great line that her father ran to Elizabeth's side to comfort her, slowly moving his way to her front.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's right. The best line ever.

[Wes Perry]

And that's what happened here with Frank.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, but in a. Like. Yeah. So it's like she came to depend on him. She's working through grief. She just wants another relationship. She writes like, he was alive and paying attention to me, and I really wanted that. And then Frank treats her like shit. Now that's a little rat man. Little rat man.

[Wes Perry]

He's the rat king.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Sinatra, the rat king. Oh, he's like, come to Palm Springs. And then she would get there and he'd be like, you're a bitch. Don't talk to me. Go home. And she'd be like, what?

[Wes Perry]

Have you ever read the famous article frank Sinatra has a cold?

[Chelsea Devontes]

No.

[Wes Perry]

Tell me where this famous journalist is, like, trying to get an interview with Frank Sinatra. But anyway, so I just thought, if Frank Sinatra has a cold. And I just thought, go to bed, Frank.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Go to bed, Frank. You're such a dog. I mean, he's just mistreating her back and forth, which, again, they have come together because he is comforting her because one of his best friends and her husband died. So don't treat her like shit. Like, be. You're already being a dog.

[Wes Perry]

I think that's who he really was.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I agree. I agree.

[Wes Perry]

So I think that, you know, I was almost startled at first that. Oh, wow. Finally some tea. But it's not really tea, I think. Yeah. Because we know he said a lot of this stuff out loud.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, absolutely. And despite 1,000 red flags stabbing her in the face from the pointy end, he's like, will you marry me? And she's like, yes, I will. And she's like, the children will have a father. I'm gonna get married. Amazing. And he's like, but don't tell anyone. The Perez Hiltons of the time were Louella Parsons and Hedda Hopper. And they were. The studios worked hand in hand with gossip columnists at the time. So instead of it being like, oh, like gossip trash, they were like the women who could ru life. And Louella runs into her to play, and she's like, say, like, you've been. You've been around Frank Sinatra a lot. Anything going on? And she says, why don't you ask him? And then their mutual friend is like, they are getting married. They told me. Ha, ha. I was at the dinner. What's his name? Like, Slimmy or something? Swifty. Swifty.

[Wes Perry]

Swifty.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Swifty tells her. And then Frank uses that to end the marriage with her being like, you're. You told Louella Parsons. And she's like, you know, it was Swifty. And he just stops talking to her, and she's like, guess it's over.

[Wes Perry]

I think that's for the best.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Definitely for the best. But, like, humiliating.

[Wes Perry]

Humiliating. I think maybe that was almost. So I kind of see her whole thing with Humphrey Bogart where, like, he's the sun and she's the moon, kind of like he's the planet, I guess. And she's kind of like a moon going around. And so I could see that once he's gone, that she would be. She would want so much to find another.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Ah. Another earth to rotate.

[Wes Perry]

Something really big to be, like, circling around. And I think what she realizes is, like, you know, when Frank just pushes her away, it's like, oh, no, I'm not gonna find another bogey.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That was so well said. You're right. I think that is exactly what drew her to him.

[Wes Perry]

So it's all for the best.

[Chelsea Devontes]

It is all for the best.

[Wes Perry]

I always think, you know, with casting, it really goes Two ways. Like, you know, when you're auditioning for something, you know, it's really. You're hoping that the people want to cast you, but ultimately, like, if they don't want to cast you, like, you don't want to work with those people. Right. Like, same thing with relationships. It's like, it's always an interview process, and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out and move on.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I hope someone clips that and plays it on repeat every day, because someone out there really needs that. Wes, that was beautifully said. You're right. If it doesn't work, move on. And she does thank Frank. Weirdly, in the book, she says, we didn't meet again for six years. When she does, it's at a restaurant. He pretends to not know who she is. Little bitch. Little rat. And outside, Mia Farrow was waiting for him, who is, of course, 19 years old. You know, they've just. They've all got again.

[Wes Perry]

I said, the rats have a. Have a whole thing. You know, I think that Young blood. Young blood. You know, and I think she was aging out of that age group at.

[Chelsea Devontes]

The age of 30.

[Wes Perry]

You know, in the book, she talks about being too old. She talks about Hollywood being done with you when you're 25.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's right. That sounds exactly right for 1940s. And, like, having a man like Bogey be like, no, we will still respect her. Did so much for you. And to lose him to how lost she must have felt. And she does say Frank did her a great favor. It would have been the worst marriage in history. So that's nice, except she's gonna have an even worse marriage. Like. And maybe I. I don't know if this is better or worse, but basically, she wants to get away from Frank, get away from Bogey, get away from Hollywood. She moves to London. And when she moves to London, she meets an alcoholic who is also an actor named Jason Robards. Who is. What. What is he? Wes? The one thing it takes for Lauren to be interested in you. He is married.

[Wes Perry]

Oh, yes. I was gonna say, Liz. No, married.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Duh. He's married. And not only is he fully married, but everyone is like, hey, he drinks a lot in a very intense way. Everyone is like, don't do this. And she does it anyway. And she gets pregnant, and that's really where she's like, let's get married. And they have to go and get married in Mexico after they're denied in Europe, because she doesn't even have, like, a death certificate. And he doesn't have a divorce certificate. And it is just a pure disaster for eight years. Where he feels. And she feels like he is living in Bogie's shadow as like, am I as good as Bogey? No. Am I as good of an actor as Bogey? I never saw him, but I think he feels no. And he's just like, did you wish you were still married to Bogey? And she's like, no. And it's just terrible. Were there any highlights from this marriage for you?

[Wes Perry]

No. I was ready for it to be over before it began.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, it was at one point. He misses his surprise birthday party because he's out getting wasted. And when he comes home, she slams a bottle of vodka into the cake. And when she realizes she wants to smash it on his head, she's like, this marriage has to end. It doesn't. Then she finds out he's cheating on her, and she's like, this marriage has to end. And it's just so dead at that point that they live in the same house and don't even care. There's like, yeah, we're getting divorced soon. So what is wild is that the book is kind of over after that. The kids have grown up. She has a kid with Jason. It's not over. We have a whole other section to get into where she's like, the end. Then some part.

[Wes Perry]

But I think she's lived such a life that if the book ended right there, you'd be like, all right, quite the life. But it continues.

[Chelsea Devontes]

But it continues. And I think what is pretty wild to me is that. So she has a child with Jason, Sam, and then she has Stephen and Leslie with Bogey, and her children kind of like grow up. There's not too many details about them other than, like, when Steve is getting married, she's, like, kind of out of it because of her own grief. And she says this. This is the last page and a half of the original printing. Statistically, I fell into the broken home category brought up by one parent, my mother. Through pure luck, the luck of face and body and having them noticed by others at the right time. I was given the opportunity to reach the highest of all highs at the age of 19. Howard Hawks, there's his name, invented a personality on screen that suited my look and my sound and some of myself. But the projection of the worldliness and sex, total independence, the ability to handle any situation had no more relation to me than it has now. This is like the best writing in the entire book. With that, I was also given a personal Life fuller than I'd ever dreamed I would have or, needless to say, have had since at the age of 20, I had grabbed the sky and had touched some stars. And who but a 20 year old would think they could keep it? When it all went though the career was more down than up almost immediately. Why did I keep going? Why didn't I fall prey to the obvious pitfalls of life. Booze, drugs, withdrawal. I would say that being loved unselfishly by two people had a hell of a lot to do with it. And that is her mom and Bogey. And she said all of this was so deeply implanted in me that I couldn't go down the drain. And she says a few more things. She talks about how when she's 15, she's watching Bette Davis realizing her dream. And this is the very last paragraph of the book. I am not ashamed of what I am, of how I pass through this life. What I am has given me the strength to do it at my lowest ebb. I have never contemplated suicide. I value what is here too much. I have a contribution to make. I am not just taking up space in this life. I can add something to the lives I touch. I don't like everything I know about myself and I'll never be satisfied. But nobody's perfect. I'm not sure where the next years will take me, what they will hold, but I am open to suggestions. I felt like that was the bleakest, a bleak way to end a book, to say, I have never contemplated suicide. Good day, Lauren Bacall.

[Wes Perry]

Well, I guess again, like I said, you know, the world of old Hollywood, I think, is full of a lot of people who are very isolated. I mean, look at Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard, right?

[Chelsea Devontes]

Sure.

[Wes Perry]

So I think she's trying to show you that she's not going slowly mad in her mansion.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I really felt like. And someone wrote in like, why do you think so much of her reputation and what you think about her is tied to Bogey, even though it was only 10 years of her life. And reading this book is because it is the 10 years of her life that to her were the happiest and to her mattered the most. And it really feels like life wilted after that.

[Wes Perry]

In that last bit, you know, she talked about her mother and Humphrey Bogart being these two important people. And I guess all I have to say is daddy issues.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, yeah, daddy issues. You know, it's not the theme of the podcast, but it's a sub theme of the podcast. Sub theme of the plot yeah, truly. Okay. So then she comes back 25 years later. No, 27 years later. And is like, has it really been. This is the part where it's like, she has added on a chapter for this reprinting. And she starts it with, has it really been 27 years? I can't believe it. Time flies even when you're not having fun.

[Wes Perry]

It's like you went to that cafe 20 years later, and Lauren, you're still here.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Lauren, are you still telling stories?

[Wes Perry]

Okay, let's hear about it.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And it's hilarious. She's like, was it 27 years not fun? So obviously she had some high moments, and she's just being funny, and I appreciated it. So let's talk about the tea from this section because. Because the majority of this extra chapter is an exact recap of what we already read.

[Wes Perry]

I was listening to the audiobook going, like, am I on the wrong chapter? Did I accidentally.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah, did I go backwards? She just retells you things, interspersed with telling you about everyone who has died.

[Wes Perry]

I guess it's very clear that she hadn't reread the book recently. And there's a lot more death, a lot more movie, I would say. You know what my main takeaway was from the Anne Moore. Her whole section about 9 11.

[Chelsea Devontes]

The 911 to purpose pipeline. Yes.

[Wes Perry]

And the way that she describes watching, you know, 911 unfolding on her television set.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. And she lives in New York and is like, the city is ruined. Life isn't what it used to be. Politicians aren't what they used to be.

[Wes Perry]

It was very clear. This was published in 2005. It was like, so her retelling of. Of the terrorist attacks.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And then she would be like, then my friend Lorraine died. And then like, pages on that. And then clearly an editor would be like, say anything else? And she'd be like, okay, I was in the Mirror Has Two Faces. And then she'd be like. And then Jack died. And you're like, lauren, over and over.

[Wes Perry]

Again, there's this thing of like, I should have known that cough was more serious. Almost exactly word for word. It's like, in three or four days, including the one about Bogie, over and.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Over again, over and over again. It really does feel like this stereotype of an older mom being like. You know, every time you call her, she tells you about the weather and, like, something horrible happening in your town.

[Wes Perry]

It is a little bit like, oh, that's why I don't call my aunt, because she won't let me off.

[Chelsea Devontes]

She won't let Me off the phone.

[Wes Perry]

But she is born Bacall, so keep talking.

[Chelsea Devontes]

So keep talking. Now, I will say there were a few gems. So one, I'm going to call this a gym. Even though it actually single handedly made me hate Vivien Leigh, which I know seems wrong, but from Lauren Bacall I learned that Vivien Leigh would say, I can't bear to have a year go by without going to Paris. And I said, oh, I guess we wouldn't have been friends, frankly.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah. You know, I'll have to say my Paris is not on the list for me. I think I have a lot of other places, but there's a certain Francophile. There's a certain type of person that Paris is all consuming, Right?

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. And it's. I mean, it's ina garden. It's some real assholes. I knew in college. Paris may be phenomenal, but the people from America who have taken to rubbing one off to the idea of it every day have ruined it.

[Wes Perry]

I do love the. That being said, I actually really loved the idea of her. You know, I could just see her in my head, all dressed up, jet setting over to Paris and just sort of trying to blend in with the locals. And sitting in the cafe like that sold me. Not on wanting to go and recreate that, but I was like, I love this for her.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yes, yes. A new place to lunch, I guess.

[Wes Perry]

Again, a lady who lunches. I guess what I really did love about the book was her spirit, her character, and just her. Even with all this grief and everything, she's not suicidal.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That's right.

[Wes Perry]

She's going out to the cafes and living out there.

[Chelsea Devontes]

She's going to the cafes. Okay, I have a few more highlights from this and then we're gonna close it. But she talked about how she had to audition for the Mirror Has Two Faces. She's quite like, I'm Lauren Bacall and I still had to fucking audition. But okay. And then she talks about how Barbara's like, so do you think you could play my mother? And she replied, yes, I can play your mother. Though, come to think of it, I would have had to be a teenage mother to qualify. I love it. I love that. Those are the parts where I was like, yes, Lauren's personality is here. And then she talked about what an incredible director Barbra Streisand is.

[Wes Perry]

I liked her respect for Barbara.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. Although you can tell it's a begrudging respect. And I see this having just watched the clip of Cher being asked if she knows Barbra Streisand. And she goes, yeah. And then she turns her full chair away. So it was kind of giving me that.

[Wes Perry]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And she said, I recognize Barbara's frailties and the self involvement which has enabled her to have the incredible career she has had. I have heard the gossip about her. Mostly negative, mostly untrue. Mostly untrue. She's been called difficult, tough, et cetera. So have I. All she wants is for whatever she is working on to be better than it is on the page. My sentiment's exactly what you hear normally comes from people who don't know her. Plus old time emotion, jealousy. Barbara has a good heart and is very smart. In other words, I think she's terrific. She impresses me and I'm filled with admiration and affection for her. Long may she wave.

[Wes Perry]

I feel like Barbara probably had the career that she would have loved to have, maybe, you know, being a director or something. But she probably couldn't even, you know, have wished for such a thing, you know, at the time that she was coming up.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. And she says, like, I am sad that Martin Scorsese and Woody Allen never put me in a movie.

[Wes Perry]

Oh, yeah. That didn't age well.

[Chelsea Devontes]

No, sure didn't.

[Wes Perry]

I was like, all right, you're probably glad now.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Also, it was 2005 that Woody Allen's trial was 1997. But all right, whatever. And then she said she was up for an Oscar for her role in the Mirror Has Two Faces. Now, I revisited the movie last night. She is phenomenal in it and she is very funny. I was kind of shocked, looking back, being like, you were up for an Oscar?

[Wes Perry]

Cause it's such a small part.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Well, yeah, I guess it's just. I mean, it's such a good part. But I felt like it spoke more to how few funny parts there were for great actresses, that this must have been such a revelation.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah. My dad and I rewatched a bunch of her movies sort of in preparation for this, including that.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Oh, I love that.

[Wes Perry]

His takeaway was that he said he felt like that was one of those things where Hollywood is giving an older actor an award, not necessarily. Necessarily for that particular role, but sort.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Of for who they are.

[Wes Perry]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Which. Yes. So that I totally saw. Which makes it even funnier that she calls out Harvey Weinstein by name twice for stealing the Oscar from her.

[Wes Perry]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Which I was like, get him.

[Wes Perry]

Get that little rat bitch some good tea. Again, showing her quality of character.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Quality of character.

[Wes Perry]

Calling him out long before it was popular.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And she was like, I was Humiliated to not get the Oscar. My kids must have been so embarrassed. Everyone was saying it was me. Harvey Weinstein took it and gave it to Juliet Binoche for the English Patient. Rude, rude, rude. And then just the last little thing. I forgot that Lauren Bacall is in the movie Birth, which she had shot when she's writing this. And she's like, I think it's gonna be good, but I haven't seen it. And it's with Nicole Kidman. Have you ever seen the movie Birth?

[Wes Perry]

No. Should I?

[Chelsea Devontes]

So Yassir made me watch it a few months ago. We have one of those, you know, Turner Classic Movies. And it is a perfect film. Like cinematically, story wise, the shots is a perfect film. And yet I wish I'd never seen it. It's haunting and really good and haunting. And that's what I'll leave you with. If that's the kind of film, if you're listening, you say, I'd like one of those. Pick this film up. It's like perfect cinema, but like disgusting.

[Wes Perry]

Maybe I'll save it for Halloween.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I think that's right. Okay, so this is how she ends this. Page 505. That's right. That's how many pages I put our dear friend Wes through. Please leave him nice comments and beg him to come back. She said, people always ask, are you happy? Or if I'm working, you must be happy. I wish I knew what happy means. I was happy when I was 19 and when my life began at 20. I was happy then, though something always shook me up in the middle of my joyous time. So my life has been very much a seesaw. So she's kind of saying no. And she ends the book saying, my life has had meaning, with friendships full and valuable and essential to me. My children, Steve, Leslie and Sam are all different, all first rate human beings with high standards whom I completely and unequivocally adore, don't always agree with, but always admire and respect. They all have wits and a sense of humor and thank God I have hung onto mine. And that's how it ends.

[Wes Perry]

So can I chime in for a second, please? So again, when you asked me to do this, the first thing that came to my mind was the Broadway musical Applause based off of All About Eve with Bette Davis playing Margot Channing, you know, the sort of older star and that more younger, hungry star kind of coming for her. And in this musical that happened in the 70s, Betty plays Margot Channing, which is the Bette Davis character and her singing. If you can call it that, you know, is very. Has always been fascinating to me because it's not really singing. She's sort of talking and doing a Bette Davis impression while some of the craziest music and dancing is happening all around her. I feel twitchy and bitchy and manic, calm and collected and choking with panic. But alive. But alive. But alive. So I really went and listened to applause a lot in prepping for this. There's a song called welcome to the Theater, where she is doing sort of a Bette Davis impression, is talking to this younger, younger actress. And here's some of the. I liked all the lyrics, but here's the ones I really liked. This is the closing of the song welcome to the Theater. With some luck, you'll be a pro. You'll work and slave and scratch and bite. You'll learn to kill with sheer delight. You'll only come alive at night when you're in a show. And like, my takeaway is like, I think that's what attracts me to her is this old Hollywood, that old theater, that old attitude. I just can't quite get enough of that.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I. I could not agree more. And I think when you see the pictures from this book, plus I'll post some extra to the Patreon. Her spirit in photos and her look in photos is just so unique and luxurious and glamorous. And is this woman that she maybe didn't always feel, but she still gave us that woman in society of this, like a woman with prowess is what it feels like.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah. And I think she gives all of us the permission to stand up straight and look people in the eye.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Give them the look.

[Wes Perry]

And give them the look.

[Chelsea Devontes]

It is time for the book Dill test. First question, was the author vulnerable in the sharing of her truth?

[Wes Perry]

I'd give it a five out of ten.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yeah. I'd give it a no. Second question. Was it entertaining to read?

[Wes Perry]

I would recommend listening to it because her voice is a national treasure. I'll leave it at that.

[Chelsea Devontes]

This was. No, I was infuriated. And I would say, but also wilted. I wilted under this book.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah. I'd say if you're curious, listen to the audiobook. And if you start to wilt, just start listening to Wicked or something else.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Yes. Oh, my God. I almost broke into Wicked. How humiliating for me on this podcast. How dare you do that to me? And final question. Did reading this book elevate your life in any way?

[Wes Perry]

It made me think of the ladies who lunch as an art and that I Think the older I get, that's something that I really want to take to really appreciate friendships and to appreciate life. And I don't know, if anything, it made me think of you, my sweetheart, and how much I appreciate friends like you who are so smart and strong.

[Chelsea Devontes]

That is the sweetest thing ever. Yeah, I would say it elevated my life in the way that. There's a bunch of memoirs I've read where even though the years of their life continue on, the memoir ends at a certain point. There's only a certain set of years that are truly alive in the writing, that are truly like their life. I think of Carly Simon, I think of Kathleen, Hannah, a lot of. Of just like when you're most robust. And Lauren's, especially after Bogey, the way the book goes.

[Wes Perry]

Well, that was a criticism people had about the RuPaul book that we read, that it kind of. It doesn't even get into Drag Race. But I always said, well. Cause that's not over.

[Chelsea Devontes]

He cut those years. Cause you're right, you're right. And I wouldn't count Rue's book as doing that. I'm talking about the books that were like, okay, and here are those years. But the way they write about them, the life is gone, you know, like, that's not like the alive part of their life. And so. So I think the way it elevated my life and that I really want to make sure that. That all of my years stay alive, that I would want to write about all of them, you know, but, oh, my gosh, let's go out on But Alive. But, Wes, thank you so much for being here. Tell people where they can find you, follow you for your work, everything.

[Wes Perry]

I'm mostly on Instagram. Yes, Harry, which is a take on my name, Wes Perry. Just find me on there and slip into my dm.

[Chelsea Devontes]

And Wes is an incredible singer and performer, so. And he travels.

[Wes Perry]

I'm going to manifest. I want to come up to LA and sing some of these songs for you.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Oh, my God. Okay, well, listen, now I'll plan a show for it. APPLAUSE we haven't had a live show in a while. Maybe that's what we'll do.

[Wes Perry]

Maybe Lauren Bacall will show up.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I'll conjure a ghost.

[Wes Perry]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Let's do it.

[Wes Perry]

Let's have a say.

[Chelsea Devontes]

A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hom, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks. But you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now you you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code TRASH. That's right, trash T R A S H2 audiobooks for the price of 1 at Libro FM. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.