Matthew McConaughey’s Poems & Prayers (with Elena Crevello and Chelsea Davison)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast

Episode: Matthew McConaughey’s Poems & Prayers (with Elena Crevello and Chelsea Davison)
Date: October 7, 2025
Guest Hosts: Elena Crevello & Chelsea Davison (of Podstruck: A Rom Com Rewind)

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Overview of the Episode

This episode of Glamorous Trash is guest-hosted by Elena Crevello and Chelsea Davison, while regular host Chelsea Devantez is away on a film project. The focus is Matthew McConaughey’s poetry collection, Poems and Prayers, released in September 2025. The hosts bring their sharp humor and rom-com sensibility from their own podcast, Podstruck, to book club and dissect McConaughey’s latest foray into inspirational writing—sometimes earnest, sometimes baffling, often unintentionally hilarious.

The episode delivers a deep-dive into McConaughey’s poetic style, the themes that recur in his work, their perceptions of his “wisdom” and masculinity, and the questionable sincerity or depth in his musings. Along the way, the hosts riff on everything from rom-com gender politics to the literalness of McConaughey’s burrito-filled metaphors, and even compose their own parody “Makana-poems.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction, Context & Why This Book (02:16–04:52)

• Elena & Chelsea introduce themselves and their connection to McConaughey and Glamorous Trash.
• Poems and Prayers described as “Tony Robbins-adjacent” self-help poetry, with “rhyming couplets galore” and literal descriptions—“like Dr. Seuss wrote it” (04:26).
• The duo sets up their approach: a blend of joking critique and genuine curiosity about McConaughey’s motivations.

The McConaughey Ethos & Accessibility of His Advice (05:11–07:09)

• Chelsea D: “It feels like you’re getting advice from your friend’s dad. He’s nice, he’s fun, but he’s also really corny, and he’s not as smart as he thinks he is.” (05:16)
• Elena & Chelsea agree McConaughey’s advice is “easier if you’re a millionaire,” and not exactly relatable—though occasionally, his sincerity lands.
• “He has the luxury to just sit and think about life while bongo drumming it up.” (06:56)

The Poems—Literalism & Lack of Metaphor (08:08–09:20)

• The hosts note McConaughey’s refusal of metaphor; everything is what it appears:
  • “Usually ... you’re thinking ... this isn’t about a burrito. But no, with Matthew McConaughey, it is about a burrito.” (08:10)
• Footnotes destroy any attempt at deeper analysis; a poem about an armadillo is literally just about an armadillo he dreamt about.

Style, Structure & Ninth-Grade Vibes (09:20–10:47)

• The poetry’s structure is often simplistic, reminiscent of “ninth grader who had to write the entire poetry project the night before.”
• “It’s at least 11th grade level.” (09:20)

“Green Lights” Poem and the Dangers of Taking McConaughey at Face Value (07:09–08:01; 10:56–11:42)

• “Walk in the right bar, get inspired by our heroes, be cool and prosper.” A reference to his lucky bar meeting with Don Phillips, which launched his career (07:35).
• His other poetic advice is equally literal and privileged.
• “This is the first mention of wet dreams in this book, not his last.” (10:56)

Recurrent Absurdities & Favorite Examples

Literal Burrito Poem & “Deuces”—A Poem About Needing to Poop

• “He had a burrito, and he thought it was good. And so he said, I’m gonna write a poem about that.” (08:35)
• “Deuces” is about needing to find a bathroom on a road trip:
  • “My favorite: See, I consider a porta potty an absolute win. Long as the first butt in the morning’s mine on the porcelain.” (17:10)

Memorable Performance Art Interpretation

• “It almost becomes performance art to me.” (17:38)
• “If we look at Matthew McConaughey as a performance artist, everything shifts. I gain a lot of respect for it.” (17:49)

The “Canon” Poem & McConaughey’s Attempt at Wisdom (18:10–21:49)

• “Great opportunities over obligations. We take care of ourselves, we take care of the nations...” (18:36)
• “Is this a first draft of Hamilton?” (18:52)
• The banality of his “wisdom,” compared to motivational signs at Home Goods or on mugs:
  • “To me, this poem was like the equivalent of a sign you would buy at, like, World Market or Home Goods.” (19:45)
• Critique of poetry lacking intimacy or depth:
  • “It’s all Home Goods signs...” (20:18)

Contradictions & Masculinity Philosophy Revealed

• “Good man vs. nice guy”—from Good Man poem (27:49):
  • “A good man stands for certain ideals...when those beliefs are contested, a good man is not a nice guy.”
• Insight into his reason for leaving rom-coms; he associated “nice guy” arcs with emasculation, contrasted with “good man” certainty (29:26).
  • “He has a real fear of not being seen as manly enough ... It’s like, I can’t be second to Kate Hudson.” (29:53)

Gender & Pop Culture Double Standards (30:58–32:36)

• They critique unequal respect for media aimed at women vs. men, especially rom-coms. Men’s stories are normalized; women’s are treated as novelties.

Proverbs, Repackaged as McConaughey’s Own (33:13–34:20)

• “It’s good when your success goes to your head as long as it goes to your heart as well.” (33:22)
  • The hosts debate whether this is empowering for women or just McConaughey’s self-regard.

Recurrent Religious & Moral Themes—Sin, Guilt, & Madonna/Whore Complex (36:29–45:03+)

• Poetic references to wet dreams, “sinners,” affairs, and guilt pepper the book, with an especially telling stanza:
  • “Too many affairs, too scared to marry. I’d scream for help but my voice won’t carry.” (The Mess I Made, 43:20)
• Repeated dichotomies: “women as mothers and whores” (37:16).
• The hosts speculate—only half tongue-in-cheek—about real-life infidelities, given McConaughey’s guilt and literal footnotes.

On Relationships and Family (41:41+)

• Poems rarely offer true romantic insight or complexity about McConaughey’s wife or children.
• “...my wife deserves a chance to belong.” (42:05)
• Camila, his wife, is mentioned late and perfunctorily in acknowledgements (64:05), raising red flags for the hosts.
  • “We need to check on Camila.” (42:28)

Religion, Politics, and McConaughey’s Limitations (49:00–50:44)

• McConaughey’s spiritual certainty comes with a lack of nuance for other perspectives.
  • “I also think pride is the reason a lot of people say they’re spiritual instead of religious. To have full faith, you have to throw pride aside.” (43:43)
• His politics are relentlessly “both sides,” described as “libertarian king” (10:18 & 49:53).
• Underlying it all? Unexamined “white male privilege” and inability to see beyond his own experience (50:10).

Those Occasional Nuggets of Worthwhile Wisdom (53:20–54:30)

• The duo are reluctantly impressed, at moments, by bits of practical mindfulness:
  • “If I can choose an outfit, I can damn sure choose my outlook.” (53:20)
  • “There are these moments where I’m like, that is a good point. ... That takes some self-awareness, some mindfulness, and it is something anyone could do.” (53:45)
  • Nevertheless, even this is shaded by his privilege.

The “Makana-poem” Recipe & Parody Readings (57:03–61:02)

• Chelsea D and Elena outline a 6-step formula for writing your own McConaughey poem:
  • Road imagery, opposites, abstract noun triplets, “trad masculinity,” wordplay, belief/sin/dream ending.
• Both hosts recite their own hilarious, intentionally nonsensical “Makana-poems” (59:15–60:44).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Chelsea Davison:

  • “It feels like you’re getting advice from your friend’s dad. He’s nice, he’s fun, but he’s also really corny, and he’s not as smart as he thinks he is.” (05:16)
  • “If you look at McConaughey as a performance artist, everything shifts.” (17:49)
  • “He has a thing about the emasculation of men in rom coms.” (29:26)
  • “My carnal desires multiply and compress. The lines and all the lies I tell...” (46:06, quoting McConaughey; hosts speculate about cheating themes.)

• Elena Crevello:

  • “If you’re hot, yeah, maybe it is [that easy to break into Hollywood].” (07:59)
  • “To me, this poem was like a sign you would buy at, like, World Market or Home Goods.” (19:45)
  • “We need to check on Camila.” (42:28)
  • “I don't know if I should fault the man or be like, bravo for just letting all this out...” (23:03)

• Discussing McConaughey’s literalism:

  • “He bought a burrito in a bank. He’s right. Telling us about that burrito.” (15:15)

• On gendered double standards in pop culture:

  • “Rom coms are romantic comedies. That’s all it is. So many of the rom coms, if they have a male protagonist, they kind of spin it to try to make it seem like it’s not really a rom com.” (31:30)

• Makana-poem composition formula:

  • “Opportunities over obligations ... Seek transformation over transaction ... end with belief, sin or dream.” (58:24)

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Segment Timestamps for Key Sections

• Overview and book club setup: 02:16–04:52
• Inaccessible advice & privilege: 05:11–07:09
• Literalism in McConaughey’s poetry: 08:08–10:47
• Highlighted “bad” and “good” poems: 16:35–23:31
• Masculinity, being a “good man” vs “nice guy”: 27:49–29:53
• Gender double standards in rom-coms: 30:58–32:36
• Religion, proverbs, and politics: 33:13–34:20; 49:00–50:44
• Theme of guilt, sin, & confession: 36:29–46:34
• Self-help advice, privilege, and “charm” of McConaughey’s life: 53:20–54:30
• Makana-poem Exercise: 57:03–61:02

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Book Assessment (“Bookdoll Test”)

• Was the Author Vulnerable?

  • CD: “No, not at all. ... The whole book is cheeky. It’s cool. It’s so trying to be profound. It’s trying.” (65:56)
  • EC: “Maybe this is his version of vulnerable... like, this is it. You’re not getting anything deeper out of Matthew McConaughey.” (66:17)

• Was it Entertaining?

  • EC: “I wouldn't say it was entertaining. I’m not recommending it. I’m sorry.” (67:20)
  • CD: “There were times where I felt like it was entertaining, but then there were times where reading was a blur…” (67:27)

• Did It Elevate Your Life?

  • EC: “I got to spend the last hour talking with you about it, and that makes me happy.” (68:17)
  • CD: “There was one thing he said ... he focuses on memories of people ... when they were at the most themselves ... I just loved that little nugget. It stuck with me.” (68:28)

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Favorite Poets Recommended (70:12–70:47)

• Elena: Sandra Cisneros, E. E. Cummings
• Chelsea: Frank O’Hara (Lunch Poems)

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Final Thoughts and Tone

With fast-paced banter, critical but always joyous, the hosts turn McConaughey’s accidental comedy into a genuinely fun piece of podcasting—a must for memoir skeptics, poetry nerds, and anyone who thought Greenlights was just a little too McConaughey for its own good.

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Summary by Glamorous Trash Podcast Summarizer. For full, hilarious context and all the poetic details (about both burritos and wet dreams), listen to the episode yourself!

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

ABC Wednesdays Shifting Gears is back.

[C]

He has arisen.

[B]

Tim Allen and Kat Dennings return in television's number one new comedy.

[C]

What what?

[B]

With a star studded premiere including Jenna Elfman, Nancy Travis and hey buddy. A big home improvement reunion.

[C]

Welcome.

[D]

Oh boy, that guy's a tool.

[B]

Shifting gears New Wednesdays, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[E]

Hi, it's me, your host, Chelsea. I am actually away from the podcast for about eight weeks as I am on set right now directing my first feature film which I also wrote. If you want to know more about the film and you're into stuff like that, we made a tier on Patreon where I'm going to send out updates just for people who want to follow along. Also on Patreon and Apple subscriptions is where you will continue to get your bonus episodes from me every month. We have recorded a bunch so so fear not. We have Denise Richards, Heart, the band, so much stuff coming your way. And in the meantime on the regular feed we have an absolutely stacked set of episodes. Our producer Christina Lopez has truly gone above and beyond. We have books, articles, Wild Rides with some very special guest hosts who you will already know from listening to this podcast. I think the best part about a book club is that you get to hear from a ton of different voices as you form your own opinion. So I'm excited to open up the book club hosting and bring in some new voices and please, please, please let us know what you think in the comments. And now please enjoy.

[D]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash, a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and trashy discourse to elevate your life.

[C]

And we're your guest hosts today, Lena.

[D]

Crivello and Chelsea dav.

[C]

We are sitting in for Chelsea Devontes while she's off directing her feature film. Wow.

[D]

And we are TV writers, comedians and hosts of the podcast Pod struck a rom com rewind. Every week on Podstruck we take a look back at classic romantic comedies to appreciate the good, the bad and the totally sexist and bananas with fresh eyes. And Chelsea Devontez was on it when we covered love and basketball. Yeah.

[C]

And we've had so many great guests, so please check out our podcast. We've had Stephanie, Beatrice, Ashley, Nicole Black, lots of people who've also been on Glamorous Trash. And you also might remember us from the Matthew McConaughey memoir episode, the Men's.

[D]

More. Yes. And I was also on the Ione.

[C]

Sky memoir episode say Everything, which was very juicy.

[D]

That was the juiciest memoir I've ever read. And I haven't read that many, but of the ones I have, whoo, boy, that takes the cake. That was a real explosive, juicy episode. And then the Matthew McConaughey one was a real crazy one. So crazy.

[C]

So we're back for more. We couldn't get enough.

[D]

We're back for more. Hungry.

[C]

Today we are book clubbing poems and prayers by the one and only Matthew McConaughey. And this book was published September 16, 2025. So it is hot off the press. Hot.

[D]

Ow.

[C]

Ow.

[D]

Yeah. It just made perfect sense for us to cover this book because Matthew McConaughey is a ROM com king. And you probably know him from movies like the Wedding Planner, how to Lose a guy in 10 days. He's also been an Interstellar Dazed and Confused. He won an Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club. The man's been in a lot of films, but he has a special place in our hearts because of rom coms.

[C]

Yes. And now, lucky you, you get to know him via his poems as well. And this book really has a Tony Robbins adjacent, you know, kind of gobbledygook, spiritual insights throughout it. There's rhyming couplets galore. It's like Dr. Seuss wrote it. Even your kids could enjoy it, you know? And so we're excited to dive into this.

[D]

Let inspiration interrupt our appointments, dream our way to reality, serve some soul food to our hungry heads, put proof on the shelf for a season, and rhyme our way to reason. Let's go beyond what we can merely imagine and believe in the poetry of life.

[C]

Chelsea, tell me, what is your overall feeling on this book?

[D]

Oh, boy. Okay. So, Elena, my feeling on this book is that it feels like you're getting advice from your friend's dad. Like, he's nice, he's fun, but he's also really corny, and he's not as smart as he thinks he is. Like, you know what I mean? You're like, no, Mr. Thompson, I can't just write a letter to Lorne Michaels and see what happens. No, Mr. Douglas, I can't work A summer job and buy a house. It's not 1992.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You know what I mean? Like, their advice has no place in my life. And that's unfortunately the same with these poems. Okay.

[C]

I felt the exact same way about that, where I'd be like, yeah, if you're a millionaire, this is great advice. He's like, I like to start the day with just, like, taking my time. I don't want to rush. And I'm like, okay, well, clearly you have someone taking your kids to school, making them lunch, making your breakfast. Like, clearly, you don't need to work. You can work when you want. This is not advice for me. But the problem, and this is kind of also what happened for me with his memoir, is every once in a while, he'll say something, and I'm like, I kind of get it.

[D]

I'll be like, oh, my God.

[C]

And I'm. And I'm embarrassed. I'll have moments where I'm like, he's not wrong, you know, when it comes to, I don't know, larger existential topics. So I struggle with that because I'll have these moments where I'm just rolling my eyes so hard, and then I'll have these moments where I'm like, well, he has really sat and thought about some stuff, too.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, he has the luxury to do that.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

If anyone has time to just sit and think about life while bongo.

[C]

Drumming it up, yes, it is.

[D]

It is. Matty McConaughey.

[C]

McConaughey. Well, let's get into the book.

[D]

So the first poem of the book is Green Lights. Intermezzo. If you did not listen to the episode of his memoir, it was called Green Lights. And he has a note here that after he wrote his book, his memoir, he then wrote this poem summarizing the memoir, to which I say, so wait, we didn't have to read the whole memoir, but you do, because everything in.

[C]

The poem is just, like, lightly referential. Like, there's a line that's like, walk in the right bar. Get inspired by our heroes. Be cool and prosper. And that's in reference to him walking into a random bar, meeting Don Phillips, and then just, poof. Getting cast and dazed and confused and his life changed.

[D]

Is that not how Hollywood usually works?

[C]

I guess it is when you're hot. Yeah.

[D]

If you're that hot. Yeah, maybe it is.

[C]

But I'm just saying, I. Otherwise, when I would read Walk in the Right Bar, I wouldn't know what the hell he's talking about. Another good Thing to know about this.

[D]

Book, poems and prayers.

[C]

Usually, if you're reading poetry, you're thinking, oh, there's gonna be a lot of metaphors. There's gonna be layers. This is about something else. This isn't about a burrito. But no, with Matthew McConaughey, it is about a burrito. Yes. And he will tell you that in his footnotes. So you'll be looking for larger meaning. And you're like, oh, no, this is actually just quite literally right. What he is writing.

[D]

He had a burrito, and he thought it was good. And so he said, I'm gonna write a poem about that.

[C]

I'm gonna write a poem about this burrito that I had that slaps, you know. Yeah.

[D]

It's very literal throughout. And we'll dive more into the structure of his poetry as we go, but buckle up, because in the same way, it's not a lot of metaphor, there's not a lot of risk taking as far as the structure in terms of. Most poems are ABCB or just aa bbcc. Yep. I will say this book does have the feeling of, like, ninth grader who had to write the entire poetry project the night before and is, like, looking around his room and is like, oh, I can write a poem about. About my bed. I can write a poem about.

[C]

That's being harsh. It's at least 11th grade level. So before every chapter, he actually has kind of like a little journal entry. And this is where, to me, you really feel McConaughey. So on page 15, I just want to start with this, because this is the gobbledygook I kind of. At first, I love. I'm like, this is crazy. And then you. You quickly get tired of it. A prescriptionist at heart, I've always looked to reason to find the rhyme, the practical to get to the mystical, the choreography to find the dance, the proof to get to the truth and reality to get to the dre. I've always believed that art emulates life, not the other way around. But I've been finding that tougher to do lately. Seems to me the facts have become unreliably overrated. And to this, I just said, oh, here comes our libertarian king.

[D]

Yeah. And guess what? He found a thesaurus. So watch out, watch out.

[C]

He's got a thesaurus. But it's just these sentences. The practical to get to the mystical. It's just like taking opposites and being like, I'm using this to get to the. I'm like, what does this mean? I don't know. But Then I'm realizing, doesn't probably mean anything really.

[D]

Right. No, but it sounds cool. And I feel like that's really his ethos is like. Yeah, it sounds. It sounds cool. It's a.

[C]

It's a. I'm just following the rhythm.

[D]

It's like the beat.

[C]

Yeah. I'm finding my beat. Beat. Yeah.

[D]

Which he kind of says throughout.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[D]

Another line from Greenlight's Intermezzo I want to call out is, we'll be a fraud, get restless and turn the page again. Have another wet dream that allows us to forgive. This is his first mention of wet dreams in this book, not his last. And if you did listen to the episode covering his memoir, he had three wet dreams as part of his memoir. So I'm not shocked that the first poem ment it.

[C]

Yeah, no, he. He wants everyone to know he's wet dreaming all the time.

[D]

Again, I will say that very much. I would say freshman of high school. Boy.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Actually maybe junior.

[C]

That's my question. Do guys just have wet dreams for always?

[D]

Forever.

[C]

Forever.

[D]

I thought you grew out of it, but I guess. I don't know.

[C]

Well, not this guy.

[D]

Health class did not teach me this.

[C]

No.

[D]

I don't know if men are having wet dreams.

[C]

I don't either.

[D]

I mean, I guess you and I are both married to men. And I've never woken up and been like, oh, my God, the bed's all wet. Another wet dream.

[C]

Although I have a king sized bed, which Matthew McConaughey says, if, like, if you want to save your marriage and have a good marriage, get a queen. To which I say, no, no, my friend, no, no. The king is saving my marriage. Thank you. I also wanted to touch on. On page 33, this is the opening to Navigation and Living Ditties. That's the name of the chapter. And he says, some mornings I wake up with a certain musical meter in my mind. If I like the sound of it, I'll do my best to move to the pace of that rhythm throughout the day, to exchange the cadence and everything I see and do. If I keep that meter in the way, I think, see and move the world around me Often respond, responds in kind to my calling Making every interaction. I have a rhyming verse in the song that is my day. And the reason why I wanted to call this out is because in Wolf of Wall street, he has that whole thumping his chest thing. And I believe that was just. He was doing it on set.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And so they were like, oh, we'll work that in. And to me, this is what he means. He literally, I think, gets up every morning and is like, what's my beat today?

[D]

And we'll just be like, I think you're.

[C]

And then, like, throughout the whole day is just like jamming out in his head. And then that's what comes to him. I don't know.

[D]

Absolutely. Yeah. And you're right that he was just doing that. That was his warmup. Because that's how he, like, gets in the zone. He does that. And we also learned from his memoir that his acting approach is just going, who is my man? Who is my man? That's what he does. So, yeah, it makes sense that he's probably asking himself every morning, who is my man? About himself.

[C]

Yeah. What's my rhythm today, Chelsea?

[D]

What's.

[C]

What's your rhythm today?

[D]

Ooh. I think my rhythm today is like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's like driving. I've got a little gravel in my voice right now, so it's kind of. It's a little bassy rhythm, you know? What about you, Elena? What's your rhythm?

[C]

Mine's a little bit like.

[D]

The Mission Impossible sound.

[C]

Yeah. I'm operating to the sound of Mission Impossible today. Okay. I have a lot going on, so that's. Sure, sure.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So on Shades for the eclipse, page 38, this is where we get this great line where he says, this two way traffic, don't lean on yellow lines. And the burrito at the bank's worth a dollar from my dimes. And then he has these little footnotes sometimes. And this one said, this is one of those ditties that made my day into a song. It all happened, including buying a no tax 2 buck burrito from a lady who had set up a stove in an abandoned bank. One of the best burritos I've ever had. And this is the poem that really unlocked the rest of the book for me. I was like, before, I was like, should I be analyzing this, like, in my English lit days? Like, E.E. cummings. Right. Ginsburg. And I read this and I was like, no, no, no. He bought a burrito in a bank. And he's right. Telling us about that burrito.

[D]

Yeah, the burrito at the banks worth a dollar for my dimes because he bought it at the bank. It's worth the money because it was a good burrito. Yeah. He later in the book, has a poem that I actually did think got, like, kind of weird. I was like, ooh, interesting. And he talks about an armadillo, and he's outside and Then he has a footnote that ruined it all. That said, this is a dream I had about an armadillo. I was like, no, everything is quite literal.

[C]

The footnotes defeat everything. There was another one where it was like, about Vietnam. Da, da, da. And he was like, this is from my trip to Vietnam with Woody Harrelson. And I was just like, okay, there's no mystery here, right?

[D]

You can't even project your own interpretation. Because he's like, no, no, Let me tell you what it means.

[C]

What if all poetry is like this and actually he's just unlocking poetry? Like, all of this time we've been giving meaning, everyone's like, no. Emily Dickinson is like, it was about a burrito. Yeah.

[D]

Maya Angelou, she's like, I know why the caged birds sing. It's about a bird.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I owned a parrot. It's not about anything bigger. It's not about social issues.

[C]

The parrot sings because that's what parrots fucking do. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

There's.

[D]

Why are you guys dumb? All right, well, speaking of literal poems, the next one I want to talk about is Deuces, page 43. All right, this one.

[C]

Oh, boy.

[D]

You can probably guess because it's called Deuces. This is a little clip from it. 40 miles south of Poteet Looking for a lid to rest My seat with my stomach in knots My prostate in a pinch the clock was ticking. I was grumpy as a grinch, so he needed to poop real bad, and he was on the road and he needed to find a toilet. And that's what it's about.

[C]

Yeah. And the last line, which is maybe my favorite. See, I consider a porta potty an absolute win. Long as the first butt in the morning's mine on the porcelain. It's insane.

[D]

It's almost like the fact that he had the confidence to say, I'm releasing this to the world, and I'm not doing it on, like, a blog. You're going to pay me money for this?

[C]

For this?

[D]

I like it. It almost becomes performance art to me.

[C]

I think you're right.

[D]

Oh.

[C]

If we looked at Matthew McConaughey as a performance artist, I mean, everything shifts. I gain a lot of respect for it.

[D]

Yes. Yes. And maybe we should, because he really is behaving his whole life to these insane kind of. Not rules, even rhythms. Well, I don't know.

[C]

I don't know. I don't know. It's like him and Meg Stalter are just really killing it. Performance. Never thought I'd say that. But, yeah.

[D]

All right. Well, another one that I want to talk about is called Canon. So Canon has four subsections. Choose, Believe, do, and Trust. And I want to read a little snippet from Believe. Great opportunities over obligations. We take care of ourselves we take care of the nations. Turn your light on and flick your switch Keep faith in the dark Demonstrate don't bitch Remember now don't forget what we're in Revolution's only rebellion until you win the future's on the table and there for the taking get what you give it's here for the making oh, yeah. Is this a first draft of Hamilton?

[C]

Yeah, this is his Lin Manuel Miranda.

[D]

But even this, to me, shows the problem in his writing because, like, the first part, revolution's only rebellion until you win. Like, not a novel thought. But he's right.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Like, there is something in there about, like, you know, you should push boundaries because if you actually succeed, then you've changed what the norm is. Like, that's a cool takeaway, even if it's not a new one. But then the future's on the table there for the taking get what you give it's here for the making. That feels like it's saying nothing. And he just had to get another two lines in.

[C]

Yeah, he just needed another rhyming couplet. And, you know, the rhymes are in when taking and making. I mean, we're not. Right. There's.

[D]

There's not a lot of internal rhyme.

[C]

To me, this poem was, like the equivalent of a sign you would buy at, like, World Market or Home Goods. This is one of those poems I read. And I'm like. I don't really even know what you're talking about, man. I tried. And I'm like, I.

[D]

What is your.

[C]

I don't know. I don't know what your point is. And I'm sorry if this isn't helpful. I'm not helping anyone understand this book any better because this is all I've got.

[D]

I don't know. Again, it's, I think, trying to be cool.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And I think that is kind of the fatal flaw here is that to me, poetry is a little raw.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Or it's funny, because one of my favorite poets is Dorothy Parker, which a lot of her stuff is very cheeky and, you know, not necessarily raw. So I'm not saying that everything needs to be painful or so vulnerable.

[C]

We don't all need to be Sylvia Platt.

[D]

But I think if you're trying to give advice, then, like, you need a little bit of that. I don't know, intimacy in it. A little bit of that. Like, Mary Oliver, here's what I know about life, you know, element. And I feel like his. It's exactly what you said. It's home goods, signs. That's all that it is. It's like you could buy all of these couplets at Marshalls.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Or on a mug.

[C]

You know, maybe he should. He should start that up as a side hustle.

[D]

If you had a mug that said the future on the table here for the taking, I'd be like, huh, yeah, yeah, that. That's. It's about the coffee.

[C]

I'm sure that mug exists somewhere. But I think it's also that, you know, he kind of says, these are poems I've written since I was 18 in a tub in Australia. Like, I've collected these over the years. But it's almost like they're kind of self conscious. Not all of them, but some of them. It does feel like he's like, one day I'm gonna publish this. You know, Like, I gotta make this sound like an anthem. Like the way you said it sounds like Hamilton. Or like it feels very self aware. It doesn't feel like a poem that he's writing from the depths of his soul.

[D]

I just have to call out again, the good versus the bad. Because there's another poem that I think, like, to me, it really encapsulates, like, he went from good to bad really quick on page 61. This is called Memory. So it's about memory. This stanza I like. Just and true. She's deja vu and surprises us with chances. She flies and floats from clouds to boats and with our dreams she dances. I'm like, that's kind of a cool way to think of memory. It does have some internal rhymes. This idea that our memories, they not only inspire our dreams, but they also give us chances for the future based on our memories. I love that. But then right after that, it turns into a vague pile of nothing. Always near and never far. She's a teacher. Always right behind us on our shoulder as we greet each day. When we take the time, she's right beside us. So he rhymes beside us and behind us. There's no internal rhymes now. This is like a bad DD riddle. Like, a Dungeon Master would give this to me and I'd be like, okay. Always near and never far. Is it a shadow?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, my Dungeon Master does that all the time. But I get what you're saying. Yeah. No, no, because he will have moments in it where I'm like, okay, that sounds nice. That's lyrical. That sounds like a poem. And then it will be deflated momentarily after. But, hey, you know what? I don't know. I don't know if I should fault the man or be like, bravo for just letting all this out, putting it out there.

[D]

You know, I'm like, I mean, that is true. Because I have read my poetry that I wrote in middle school and high school and been mortified. If you told me, chelsea, I'll give you $50,000 if the world gets to read your poetry, I'd say, no, yeah, of course. I'm not taking the money. And, you know, he doesn't have that shame.

[C]

No. But I can't tell if that's what's very right about him or if that's what's very wrong about true. It's like it's either. Okay, wow. Yes. We shouldn't be afraid to just put our shit out there, put our quote, unquote, art, whatever form it is, and just say, have at it, guys. You know, he has a fan base. Or is it that overconfidence where he actually believes all of these poems are great, I should share this with the world? Or does a part of him think this is about a fucking burrito and taking a shit in a porta Potty? Like, suckers, you know, these are suckers by right. I just don't know. I'm curious what's going on on the inside.

[D]

This might be a joke to him. Yeah. That he's like, this is funny. I'm publishing this nonsense and this is fun. But then again, does he. Is it a joke? Because the front cover is him in the most solemn, serious. He's gazing out into the distance, his.

[C]

Shirts buttoned down, like below. Yeah. So low down to his. His sternum. Like where the sternum starts. Yeah.

[D]

He. He's just kind of crouched. He's got one knee up. He's looking off, serious. It. The whole picture is sepia toned.

[C]

Yeah. And you know what? He is good looking. So he is.

[D]

But come on, no one's good looking enough for this.

[C]

I don't know. That cover does do something.

[D]

Wow. You know, though, it's interesting because we were talking about Hamilton and Lin Manuel Miranda, and I remember I watched an interview with Lin Manuel where he was talking about when he was working on Hamilton and the development process, and he really challenged himself to try to condense it as much as possible. Every line had to be so tight, so if he could say it in two lines, he would go back and then try to say it in one line. He would try to eliminate any extra filler words and lines and try to make sure every verse had as much wordplay and significance and as he possibly could.

[C]

And that is a thing that I.

[D]

Think Matthew McConaughey could work on and maybe could do with his second pass with this poetry. You know, condense, my friend. There are some good ideas in here. Clear you're having fun. And honestly, that energy is contagious. Don't give that up. But, you know, maybe challenge yourself a little bit more.

[C]

Challenge yourself, McConaughey. And maybe your publishers and editors should have challenged you a little more, too. Definitely. That's all I'm saying. He mentions, like, five of them in the acknowledgment. So they were there. They were around.

[D]

Well, speaking of challenging himself, the next poem I want to talk about is called Good Man.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[E]

Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back.

[B]

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[E]

Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation.

[D]

All right, it's on page 77. Elena, can you read us a little snippet of that?

[C]

Of course. I'll read you the whole thing because it's four lines. Good man. There's a difference between a good man and a nice guy. A good man stands for certain ideals, and when those beliefs are contested, a good man is not a nice guy.

[D]

All right, so I actually. I kind of like this. Again. I think this is a pretty good insight, and I kind of like this as a. I don't know, a short little poem. I think his short poems often work for me better than the long ones.

[C]

Definitely.

[D]

But again, he ruins it for me because he has a note at the bottom of the page that says, I wrote this one in the late 90s just before I decided to stop doing the romantic comedies, people were always telling me, you seem like such a nice guy, and hey, I got it. The rom coms were entertaining and popular and the men always ultimately acquiesced. And this, to me, is crazy, because he thinks these rom com male characters are acquiescing to something that is making them, you know, cave on their ideals.

[C]

Making them a nice guy. Not a good guy.

[D]

Right. Not a good man. And to me, I have to wonder, then, what are they caving on? What ideal? Falling in love, Getting married? Is that the thing that he thinks.

[C]

That compromising with their partner in the movie or whatever?

[D]

Yes, right. Like learning to, like, love and change. Because that's the arc for a lot.

[C]

Of rom coms and give of yourself. Yes, completely.

[D]

And from his memoir, we had talked about the fact that he has a thing about the emasculation of men in rom coms, that he wanted to stop playing these, you know, bubbly, frothy, emasculated men. And I think this is such a peek into what he meant by that completely.

[C]

He has a real fear of not being seen as manly enough or I don't know if it's a fear, but he feels like men should sort of take up this more authoritative position. It's in here, in little places throughout, which to me means also, this is a Dringo moment. This is a man who gets jealous of a woman's success. It's like, I can't be second to Kate Hudson. I can't be deferring to Sarah Jessica Parker. Like, I need to be the man, you know? And the bummer part is you don't get accolades for doing rom coms and you do get accolades for doing Wolf of Wall Street. I mean, and all this stuff. It's frustrating to me as someone who does love rom coms. And I get it. I get that, you know, how to lose a guy in 10 days isn't the same as Wolf of Wall street, but why not? Or why can't we just have a little more respect for these types of movies?

[D]

Absolutely. So much of this media that is aimed towards women, and this has been true in music, in art, in literature, you know, romance novels have been such a joke for so long, and only now are people realizing, wait, it's actually serious. This is a billion dollar industry and it's becoming more mainstream.

[C]

Yeah, of course. When money becomes involved, then they'll pay attention.

[D]

It's so weird that we normalize art that is aimed at men.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

And yet it's always a joke and kind of this thing that is treated as lesser or emasculated or something. When in fact, rom coms are for everyone. And a lot of men like love stories too. Love is actually a very universal thing. Comedy is a universal thing. And rom coms are romantic comedies. That's all it is. So many of the rom coms, if they have a male protagonist, they kind of spin it to try to make it seem like it's not really a rom com, you know?

[C]

Yeah, it's a comedy.

[D]

Talked about this before. It's a comedy coming to America. Groundhog Day. It's like, I got bad news for you. Those are rom coms.

[C]

Yeah. Hey, guys, guess what? Hey, guys.

[D]

Well, if you like a rom com.

[C]

It'S just frustrating that those are more lauded and then like a female centered thing, the same. It's like, oh, wow. Like Bridesmaids. Oh, wow. That was a female centered movie and it really did well. Oh, wow. Barbie. That was a female centered movie that did well. Like, kind of always a surprise.

[D]

Always a surprise. And then they don't do more.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, they're like, wow, crazy. Rich Asians made so much money. The rom com is back.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Silence. No more of them.

[C]

No. Yeah. Well, anyways, it's a real eye opening moment, and it is the moment where Matthew McConaughey says, you know what? I'm gonna be a good man and not a nice guy and I'm gonna go do Dallas Buyers Club, which was a great movie. So I think he could do both, though, is all I'm saying. Yeah.

[D]

It doesn't have to be this line in the sand.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I wanted to talk about this proverb he has. He has these proverbs throughout here, which I didn't know. I mean, maybe I should have. We could all just write our own proverbs.

[D]

Yeah. You think of proverbs as being, like, ancient. These little pieces of wisdom that have been passed down. No. Turns out you can just make new ones.

[C]

You can make new ones. Matthew McConaughey's doing it, guys. Start passing your proverbs down now. So this is what he says on page 87. It's good when your success goes to your head as long as it goes to your heart as well. Which I feel two ways about. One, I'm like, you know what? As a woman, I do think, you know, we're always apologizing or somebody. Not everyone, but, you know, somebody says, oh, that was so good. Or, you know, gives you a compliment. It's so common as a woman to be like, oh, no, it wasn't that big of a deal. So I'm like, yeah, we should let success go to our heads. We should. But then I'm like, maybe Matthew McConaughey shouldn't. Maybe this isn't the guy who should be letting it go to your head. It's so Matthew McConaughey. It's such a character being like, as long as it goes to your heart as well. Like, I would write this in dialogue as, like, some cheesy cowboy Sega to a woman in a rom com.

[D]

Absolutely. This also does kind of make me wonder, like, if you're saying success has gone to your heart, have you then become, like, a more philanthropic person? Have you gotten very involved in activism and charity? And that's what you mean. Like, you're using your success to expand your heart and give opportunities to other people? Because that's not what I think of him for. I think of him for selling cars.

[C]

Yes. He's very good at selling cars.

[B]

I've been driving a Lincoln since long before anybody paid me to drive one.

[D]

I didn't do it to be cool. I didn't do it to make a statement.

[B]

I just liked it.

[C]

He is a big church boy.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

He goes to a church in Austin, Texas, called Riverside that I did a little bit of a deep dive because one of the people he thanks in the acknowledgments is Pastor Dave Haney, who is the pastor of his church. I think it feels like a more open, accepting church. I couldn't quite fully get in there. There's another Riverside that's not. So then it was confusing, but there was a Yelp review because I went down a rabbit hole.

[D]

A Yelp review of a church.

[C]

Oh, there's all sorts of Yelp reviews on these churches. And one of the Yelp reviews was about how this woman had been going to the church for. She really liked it. And then her and her husband went to some thing with the pastor about couples, and he, like, drew a curtain between the men and the women and had men sit on one side and women sit on the other side and then spoke to just the men the whole time about how, like, they shouldn't be tempted by women's, like, feminine wiles, essentially. I don't know. It sounded just very sexist and strange. And the woman gave it one star and was like, I not going back to this church after that experience. And now, look, we have to take this with a grain of salt. This was on Yelp. This Is not verified. I don't know. But it made me think, oh, that's interesting. If that is the church he's going to. And there is this pastor with, like, some very traditional beliefs of, you know, masculine, feminine roles, which, of course, it's church. That's part of my problem with church.

[D]

Yeah, look, I think that that dovetails really well actually into another poem I wanted to talk about. This is page 79 from propaganda.

[C]

Okay, great.

[D]

Okay. The sperm on your belly is child's play compared to the baby you can make with their mother. The nightmare you have is for a whore, and the wet dreams you make love to are yours. The negative is singular. The positives are plural. Please sell them as so. Okay, first of all, I'm like, I don't think. Please sell them as so that what? But also, okay, our second dimension of wet dreams. And this is a theme through his book where he talks about women a lot as, like, mothers and whores.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

That's the dichotomy. And that was true in the memoir as well. And it sounds like that ties into this Yelp review of, like, yeah, these women are. Are temptresses. And, you know, they're. They're there, but don't be tempted, because the sperm is nothing compared to the. To the child you can make with a mother.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You know what I mean?

[C]

Completely. And throughout the book, he mentions, like, I'm a sinner, or I've done these things.

[D]

Yes, he talks about being a sinner, but it makes me think, is he cheating on his wife? Did he cheat on his wife? This is what it seems like a lot of the poems are about.

[C]

That is what I wrote down, too. I was like, is he cheating? Because he keeps going back to. Especially as the book goes on. Towards the end, he talks a lot about, like, I know I'm a sinner. But the other thing I found interesting is he has two quotes in here from two of his three children. He, like, has these two little quotes. One of his child, he never quotes. And he never quotes Camilla. And also in the acknowledgments, she is placed in the fourth paragraph. After. After he thanks, like, editors, publishers, and his PR woman. And then he's like, and thanks to my wife. It's very casual. The last poem in here in the love section is about what sounds like the worst Valentine's Day ever. So on page 123, this is Valentine's Day. Too many white roses, not enough red. I wish you loved me as much as life, she said, one last time is It. Yay or nay. And that's when my feet stepped away. This is the last poem in the section titled Love Stories. And I was just like, this feels grim to end the love section on.

[D]

Yeah, I assume it's about a past relationship. Like a breakup where he just, like, couldn't give them as much as he as they wanted from him.

[C]

It must be about a past relationship. But the fact that there's like, none of the poems in the love section are actually that, like, romantic or feel like a Shakespeare sonnet. They're just kind of more practical.

[D]

Yeah. Well, since we're talking about the love section, there are a couple in this section that I definitely want to talk about.

[C]

Okay, great.

[E]

Okay, we're going to take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back.

[B]

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[D]

Mm, that's so hot.

[C]

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[E]

Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation.

[D]

First, on page 109, there's a poem he wrote about being post coital called Revel in the post. And in it he includes this little snippet. She'll wear less makeup out to dinner. You'll treat her like the queen she is and order a ribeye. Look, it's another case where he mentions his wife is basically this, like, sex goddess. He calls her a queen, but he gives no hint about her personality or her likes her anything. She is just this person, this mystery who is an object of sexual desire or maybe of worship. It's very confusing. And then there's another poem a couple pages later called Certainly. Do you want to read that one?

[C]

Yeah. He says, out to confront instead of restore. I've been confusing, selfish for certain. Locked behind my dictator's Door. The insecurity of combat's curtain. I know I'm seldom wrong, but there's more than one way to be right. Others deserve a chance to belong. Especially my wife.

[D]

This made me. I would say this at this point is a Dringo. Women we need to check on. Oh, is his wife okay? Like him saying, I know I'm seldom wrong. I'm like, buddy, I can tell you right now, based on that sentence, you're wrong about that.

[C]

Yeah, you're wrong.

[D]

You're wrong. And the fact that my wife deserves a chance to belong.

[C]

I know he's like trying to be like, come on, guy. You know, he's admitting his faults, which you feel like, okay, that's some self reflection. That's good. But the whole idea of being locked behind my dictator's door, like, even that, you're like, so you guys got in a fight, then you went to your room and locked your door like a little mad boy, you know, like, oh, my God, get my way. I agree. We need to check on Camilla. So on page 135, he has this poem, the mess I made. He says, the mess I made. Oops, I did it again. Spilled my drink of disease and sin. Gonna take a while to clean this up. Spilled more than I thought. Emptied the cup. Too many affairs, too scared to marry. I'd scream for help but my voice won't carry. Now, I'm assuming he wrote this before he was married because he's too scared to marry, but there is just a lot of references throughout it of affairs, of, you know, his sins, spilling his cup. I mean, all sorts of things throughout it where I'm like, what did you do? Is there a dead body hidden buried somewhere in your large Texas property? I mean, he is racked with guilt. And maybe that is just what happens when you are more religious. I am not. And so I don't have this guilt for. I mean, I haven't killed anyone. I'm not having affairs. I don't think I'm actually like, I wouldn't be like, I am a sinner. So it is shocking to me to read someone who's just continually calling himself a sinner. And I'm like, what happened?

[D]

Yeah, it's a weird thing where I can't tell if that's just. He's so religious that he views, you know, hey, we're all sinners. And yes, even having thoughts makes you a sinner. But the one to me that really I was like, oh, was page 159 has no title. Forgive me I'm sorry for the guilt of give a damn. Insane. A sinner. Just who I am. A repeat offender Stuck right where I've been. A certified transgressor over and over again. That's the one that I just wrote. He cheated, right?

[C]

I wrote, what did he do? No, I guess I'm like, a certified transgressor. I don't know. It makes me think terrible things. I'm like, have you assaulted somebody? I mean, maybe it isn't something so bad. I mean, that's the thing about poetry. But since we do know this guy is really quite literal, it makes me think you cheated. You did something.

[D]

Yeah, because he has a note on the page. He said, I could be jealous of people who sleep well through the night after whatever offense they've committed, but I'm not, because that would mean I don't give a damn. So I think this is his way of justifying it to himself. And obviously, this is all speculation. Don't sue us, Matthew McConaughey, for saying you may be cheating on, you know, nothing.

[C]

No one is even saying that out in the Internet anywhere. We're not.

[D]

No. This is not until us. Until maybe we launch the theory. Interpret.

[C]

Interpreting your poems.

[D]

Yeah, but my theory is that he is justifying it to himself by saying, well, the guilt I feel afterwards shows how much I love her. And so I will compensate, and I'll continue to treat her like a queen and a mother and this, like, amazing person on a pedestal who's not really a human or a partner. And then, you know, these other women, they're just. You know, they're just sins.

[C]

They're just some sins. And then I take them the next day to go get a burrito from this lady I kind of respect at the bank.

[D]

From the lady of Respect?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Page 168. He also has a line. My carnal desires multiply and compress. The lines and all the lies I tell. That is where I'm like, huh? Okay, so you're lying to your wife. That's what those lies are about. My carnal desires multiply and compress.

[C]

Yeah. And he says the lines and all the lies I tell, the ones I don't believe, leave but sell.

[D]

Oof. Oof.

[C]

Oh, I would not want to be married to a movie star.

[D]

Just gotta say, I mean, maybe. Maybe a movie star, not him.

[C]

But don't you think all movies, most movie stars might have some little issues?

[D]

I don't know.

[C]

I guess I shouldn't be grouping them all together. Maybe not. Maybe.

[D]

No No, I made this point once I got into this with another writer, and I was like, no, they're not all bad. I mean, think of someone like Tom Hanks, and like, tom Hanks is America's dad. He would never be like that. And their point was, didn't Tom Hanks cheat on his first wife and leave her for Rita Wilson? I was like, oh, I forgot about that.

[C]

I forgot about that, too. So, yeah, I mean, also, it's just human. We shouldn't just pinpoint human on. On movie stars or celebrities. This is a human issue that happens, you know.

[D]

No, only movie.

[C]

Movie stars.

[D]

No else. That's what I say menacingly to my husband. You're not a movie star. Only movie stars. You can't.

[C]

You cheated. You're not a movie star.

[D]

Not allowed. Don't even think about it. No, he didn't. I'm just saying I'm threatening him. So he never does.

[C]

Okay, I have, like, just two little things I want to touch on. One of them is on page 143, and it's in the opening of his chapter Faith and Doubt. He says, I also think pride is the reason a lot of people say they're spiritual instead of religious. To have full faith, you have to throw pride aside. And now, as someone who does consider themselves spiritual and not religious, I found this quote very annoying because I'm like, no, you can have full faith in something, in that there's a larger meaning to things or there is something bigger driving us or that we're headed to or something connecting everybody, which is what I believe. There's sort of a. A larger connection. But I am not religious because I don't go to a church. You know, I'm not like, yes, I will believe everything you are telling me, and I am going to do just as you say, church leader. I think you can find, you know, great wisdom in a lot of different spiritual books and teachings. So I just feel irritated that he's like, no, to have. Have full faith, you have to throw your pride aside. I'm like, no, that's not really what it's about, Matthew.

[D]

Yeah, that's not the hindrance, actually.

[C]

No, that's not the issue.

[D]

I think his view on religion ties into his view on politics and kind of everything in that he's not really able to look beyond his own experience. I think that is clear. He has this weird kind of both sides ism that he does at two different points in the book about politics. He does one on page 49 in the poem Birmingham Red Enough to work blue enough to dream like Southern royalty without the queen. And then later on page 181, pep rallies. I'm not a fan of fairy tale liberal commentary, nor the right wing dictate. Semper fi. It's always this, like, I don't like this, but I don't like this. I don't know. I'm just in the middle, baby.

[C]

Well, that's very libertarian. Yeah, it's just like turning a blind eye to certain issues and kind of like, just try to wash it over in one large brushstroke and be like, it's all good, baby. Find your rhythm in the morning. Don't let them get you down.

[D]

Right. Everybody's bad. Yeah.

[C]

You know, and it's exactly that. Like, throughout this, the one thing that really comes through for me continually is. And I don't want to sound annoying, but it really is just this white male privilege comes through so, so strongly. And it's very aggravating to me personally. When I'm reading it, I'm like, yeah, of course these are your perspectives, but you don't even. Like you're saying, you don't even allow yourself to just shift and see things from another perspective. Like, he so believes in his core that he's figured out how to live life, you know?

[D]

Well, it's so interesting because this is a man who has traveled the world and has spent time with a lot of people from a lot of different walks of life. Like, I really do admire that, the amount of people that he has talked with and spent time with.

[C]

That's true.

[D]

Somehow I don't feel like it has actually expanded his worldview. He's still giving advice as if everybody is a rich guy just like him that's like, hey, make sure to put singles on the outside of your wallet and keep the Benji's deep on the inside so they don't know how rich you are. Like, what? What are we talking about? It's a weird duality to this book where he's both worldly and he is kind of enlightened in some ways. Like you said, just enough that you kind of feel like, oh, no, do I like it? But then it's a splash of cold water every time he brings it back to something where you're like, oh, no. You're like an old rich dude who watches the news and, like, like, doesn't quite talk to young people anymore or.

[C]

People outside of your, like, demographic of wealth.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. The last thing I'm gonna touch on is a moment that I read And I was like, these are the moments where he gives some advice. And I'm like, yeah, it's a good call. This is from Sunrise Intentions and All Day appreciations on page 187. I don't like waking up in the morning feeling like I'm in a race against time. I like starting my day feeling on time and grateful that I have another chance to live and get what I want. So before I get up, I take a moment to check in with my mind, body, and heart to see how I'm feeling. How did I sleep? Where is my head? Am I relaxed or anxious? Then I choose to determine my frequency and approach to the day. Which lens do I want to see the world through today? If I can choose an outfit, I can damn sure choose my outlook. And so there are these moments where I'm like, that is a good point. Like to take a beat. It's kind of mindfulness. Take a moment in the morning, assess. Be like, how am I feeling? If I'm feeling shitty, if I'm feeling cranky, like, maybe I need to put that aside and be like, no, I'm shifting my perspective today. Like, there is some stuff in here where I'm, you know, and this is very simple. I'm not saying this is, like, mind blowing, but it's stuff that I'm kind of like. Like, you got a good point, Matthew. Like, yeah, that is. That takes some self awareness, some mindfulness, and. And it is something anyone could do. You can do it even if your kid's waking you up early and harassing you to let him, you know, take him to the bathroom.

[D]

I agree. Again, it's. It's kind of Oprah. It's kind of.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

I don't know a lot of people. I feel like maybe Drew Barry more. I don't know, just like, choose joy. Choose joy. But I'm kind of like, you're right.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

He's not. Wrong again. This is where it's like a dad who means well.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

He's your friend's dad. He cares. Ultimately, it's coming from a good heart. It is.

[C]

And sometimes I can't tell if, you know, like, his whole thing with finding the rhythm, and then the rhythm will come to you. I can never tell. I'm like, okay, is this just cause you're Matthew McConaughey that you can do this? Cause you kind of have this. This way about you and just this, like, confidence, privilege. Like, he just feels, like, so comfortable in his skin. And I'm like, is that because of Your inherent privilege. Or like, do you know what I mean? Like, I can't tell what comes first. Like, these ideas of, like, I'm gonna set my own rhythm. And like, oh, that works. Maybe I should try something like that. I'm gonna set my own rhythm. I'm gonna try to just really be me. Or is it like. No, it works because he's Matthew McConaughey.

[D]

No, I actually think it does just work for him. Again, from reading the memoir, it seemed like things started going really well for him, like, very early on. Like.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

You know what I mean? He was like. Talks about how popular he was and like, prom king and getting all the girls. Like, this man has been winning nonstop. Like, he's never not well. He did just. He get.

[C]

He did have a short period of time where he was broke, sleeping on a friend's couch in LA and only had $2,000. But then he, like, landed a huge agent and booked a movie role.

[D]

But do you remember what. How that story went? He asked the producer that he was staying with, can you set me up with agents? And the guy was like, they'll smell how desperate you are. You need to get out of town. So he was like, you're right, I'm going to go motorcycle around Europe. And he went to Europe and just asked a guy there like, hey, do you mind if we borrow some motorcycles for free? And the guy was like, like, yeah, sounds cool. Chill, man. And they just did. They just got it. It's crazy.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

Like what?

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[D]

So anyway, we should all just be given motorcycles to tour. Your life. He lives a charm, though. It's not all charmed. Because the last poem I want to talk about is called Streamers in the hall of justice on page 175, this is a five page long poem about him having to go to digital court over zoom during the pandemic because a woman. He calls her a stalker, accused him of fathering her child. Which I just. Here's the quick snippet from that.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Felt fresh this morning because I was headed to court, off to see a judge about a fact distort. Seems a young lady claimed we made a baby. Maybe that never happened. And I don't mean maybe the prosecution needed tech support. The lady accusing me never showed in court. I guess the truth was above her station. But the show went on in con tinuation. He puts con in. Just so you know, he thinks he's being con.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

So the hardship here was that he had to go to court. Court one Time. But then he won, and it wasn't a big deal. He, you know, it was all easy breezy.

[C]

He got the restraining order. That was it. That is his main hardship in life. And so, I mean, we all can relate to that.

[D]

Oh, my gosh. All right, well, look, I, after reading all of these poems, found some. Some common threads in them, and I was inspired to make my own makana poem. And I thought others might want to do this too. And so to me, there are six ingredients that you need to build your own makana poem. And I'm going to read them out now for you.

[C]

Okay?

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Number one, write a sentence with any kind of road imagery. For example, his in the book are. Or just keep living green lights or up the road from trespassing where you don't need a fence or roundabouts, red lights, stop signs and late nights. Okay, number two, write a phrase and then invert it to the opposite. Are you hoping to survive or surviving to hope? We expand, we contract. Basically, the whole book is full of these little opposite phrases. All right, number three, choose an abstract noun that's something, you know, intangible. And then define it using three other random abstract nouns. For example, in the book, he says prayer is paying attention. Prayer is progress.

[C]

Beautiful.

[D]

Prayer can be a scream, a plea, a question. Okay, number four, write a line with a trad masculinity reference. Something about, you know, stakes gambling, cocaine, wolves, trucks, one night stands, dynamite, blood. Those are all things referenced in his poems. It's basically whatever is on a Tom Hardy shirt.

[C]

Yeah, you know, I love it.

[D]

And then number five, use two words that almost sound the same in the same phrase. For example, he says, seek transformation over transaction. And he says opportunities over obligations. And then finally end with a line or two with any of the following words. Belief, sin or dream.

[C]

I love it.

[D]

All right, Elena, read me. Okay, your makana poem.

[C]

This is my makana poem. Now, I've written this over the course of three different days, and I did not try to make it have any through lines, but this is it. The road's an open highway with space for my heart to roam. Am I living to dream or just dreaming to live courageous passion? Courage is bravery. Courage is death. My one night stands got me itching for a steak. Yeah, that line's crazy. And my transformations. A transformer, ready to elate. It doesn't make any sense. I don't know. And now that you're here, I know I'm in because I'm living each day like it's my. My final sin. Oh, I love it. Thank you.

[D]

And I like that you used his rhyme scheme, too.

[C]

Well, kind of. Here and there.

[D]

Yeah, here and there. But he only uses it here and there.

[C]

It's true. It's true. Let's hear.

[D]

Okay, here's. Here's mine. Remember the yield sign you paid no heed to all those miles back. Pray to two lines crossed because you crossed the line. The lesson is the journey. The lesson is the payment. The lesson is the answer. The poker game is done and all you've won is a hangover. Oh, you'll never find the absolute in absolution. Believing in glory leads to glorifying belief. Sin tastes sweet until your teeth fall out. Honestly, either of those could have been in Matthew McConaughey's book.

[C]

Yeah, let's send our poems to Crown because they loved this. Crown Publishing. What do you think? Are we. Yeah.

[D]

So if you want to write your own Matthew McConaughey, please do so. Please send it to us. You can post it in the Patreon. I would love to.

[C]

Oh, I would love to read some Makana poems. Well, I think we should move on to the book deal test. But first we thought we'd throw in a little segment we usually do on our podcast called Binge or Cringe, where it's just rapid fire. We list things and we say if they're a binge or a cringe. But we like to rename Bingercringe to fit, you know, the theme of what we're covering. So, Chelsea, I have one pitch for Binger.

[D]

I have three pitches. You. You give your pitch first.

[C]

Okay. Makana hay or makana nae nae.

[D]

That was one of mine.

[C]

I feel like we have to do it.

[D]

No, mine was only makana nay, not neigh nae.

[C]

Makana nae nae. Okay.

[D]

Okay. And my other two were prayers or terrors.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Which. Eh. And then poetry or no etry.

[C]

All right, I think we gotta do makanahey or makana nene.

[D]

Okay, great.

[C]

Okay, I'll start putting quotes in your book from two of your three children. Makanahe or makana nene.

[D]

Makana nene. I did not notice that. I am so glad you called that out. That is crazy.

[C]

It's horrible. And I forget which son gets left out. I think it's the oldest son, Livingston. I believe he quotes Levi and Viva, but no, no. Livingston.

[D]

Wow. Okay. The word tardy. This is one of many words he uses a lot. He has A couple words that he puts throughout the book, and tardy is one that I'm like, who says tardy? So do you like this word makana hay or makana nene?

[C]

Can I be like makana? I don't care. I'm neither here nor there. Tardy. Tardy is a word. First of all, it's a great song from a classic housewife, Kim Zolciak, where she says, don't be tardy for the party. Actually, you know what? I'm bringing myself over to McConaughey. I like tardy.

[D]

Wow. I'm a big makana nene because I'm like. It just shows you have a limited vocabulary. If the first time he used it, I thought, oh, interesting. I don't use that. I don't hear the word tardy a lot. Lot. And then it came up, like, six more times through the book. I actually, Okay, I didn't do it for tardy, but I did end up making a spreadsheet to track how many times he said some of these other words.

[C]

Oh, boy, Chelsea, that is commitment.

[D]

So, according to my account, he wrote 126 poems and proverbs in this book. And 21 of them mentioned the word belief. 10% of them mention the word sin. The word tardy is less than that. But still, I'm like, you're using the same words again and again and again.

[C]

He's got a theme. It's like Shakespeare. Chels. Shakespeare used the same words over and over again.

[D]

Oft. Duff.

[C]

Duff. Yeah. Love. Love a lot. So, you know, this is just what happens when you're a great poet. It. You go to the well. You go to the well.

[D]

Oh, sure. Okay.

[C]

All right, all right. Listing your wife in the acknowledgments. But in the fourth paragraph, after your lit agent, multiple publishers, and your PR girl.

[D]

Okay, well, this is hardly a cringe, because that's obviously terrible. That's obviously a McConnell.

[C]

I just am still blown away by it. The fourth paragraph, he starts thanking all these different spiritual people. I mean, all. All sorts of stuff. And then his publisher. And then she's just crammed in there.

[D]

I mean, come on, she's busy with the kids. She doesn't get to live her life to a song or whatever. She's got to get them to school.

[C]

Well, she's got to get on his rhythm, you know? That's another thing about his whole thing is, like, I start the rhythm, and everyone comes to my rhythm. Well, what about their rhythm, Matthew? What about my rhythm? Yeah. Yeah. What about Camila's rhythm?

[D]

Yes. All right. Poems that don't rhyme. McConaughey or McConnay nae, I have no.

[C]

Problem with poems that don't rhyme. That's McConaughey. But in the context of Makana Hay's poems, it's a makana nene. Although I don't know. What's worse is, like, rhyming couplets, which feels so silly when half of the poems are literally just rhyming couplets or not rhyming. I don't know where to stand on this. In the context of him, I will.

[D]

Say Makana Hay for both, because I like a poem that rhymes, but I also like ones that don't rhyme, especially for him. I like the ones that don't rhyme a lot better, because with the ones that rhyme, it feels like he's just throwing in extra chaff to try to get it to rhyme. And I'm like, buddy, you don't need to throw in eight more words just to try to rhyme. Taking and making. You don't need to do that.

[C]

Totally, Totally. All right, let's move on to the bookdoll test. Was the author vulnerable in the sharing of their truth? What do you think?

[D]

No, not at all. The whole book is cheeky. It's cool. It's so trying to be profound. It's trying.

[C]

Okay, but this is what I think. I almost say yes, because I think that is. It is trying, but I think that's all he's got. This is it. You know what I mean?

[D]

But that's still not vulnerable.

[C]

No, but I think maybe this is his version of vulnerable. I don't think he is any more vulnerable in his life than he is in this book. It's kind of like what you see is what you get with him. Like, this is it. You're not getting anything deeper out of Matthew McConnell.

[D]

I don't know. I'm like, yeah, you're gonna tell me about you pooping on a road trip, and you're not gonna, like, talk about if you actually cheated on your wife and, like, what that actually has done to your soul in your marriage. Talk about what it's like being a father. You know, in your memoir, you talked about how that was the thing you wanted to be most in the world. You wanted to become a father. Why are there no poems about parenthood?

[C]

Okay, you make. You make a good point.

[D]

But.

[C]

But I just. I don't know. I think he thinks about himself more than he thinks about parenthood. You know what I mean, he's always like, how am I? Let's think. Let's put this back onto, like, from my perspective or more about me, you know?

[D]

Yeah, I guess that's true. All right, well, was it entertaining?

[C]

Oh, I don't know that I'd call this entertaining. I wouldn't say it's entertaining. I'm not recommending it. I'm sorry.

[D]

I would say there were times where I felt like it was entertaining, but then there were times where reading was a blur, and I'm like, oh, my God, wait, I just read 30 pages. What was one of the poems? It was like, in and out of my brain so fast. Nothing was really sinking in. And so I think because of that, nothing was also really entertaining me.

[C]

Yes, completely. You know, usually if I read a poem or if I'm reading poetry, I have moments where I'm just, like, so blown away. I have to. To really sit with the poem and, like, read it over and over and, like, it sticks with you. None of these stuck with me. I'm not going around, like, reciting a line or, like, feeling that. I don't know. I don't know how to explain that.

[D]

Yeah. All right. And so, finally, did reading this book elevate your life in any way?

[C]

It elevated my life in that I got to spend the last hour talking with you about it, and that's. That makes me happy. I enjoy this.

[D]

Oh, God. This is another time where I'm like, man, sometimes he's right. There was one thing he said that actually did stick with me, and did I do really, like. And it's right at the beginning, and it's not part of a poem, but on page 19, he talks about how. What he tries to do is he focuses on memories of people in his life who he loves when they were at the most themselves. Not the happiest, not the most proud, but just where he thinks of these moments where they were just so themselves. And he, like, thinks back on that, and then he tries to do the same thing with himself, to think about moments where he was the most himself.

[C]

Well, doesn't he say he tries to love them as. That he loves them as the most themselves?

[D]

Yes. And then tries to use that way of thinking about his identity to guide his actions. What feels the most authentic to who he is. Not, like, when was I my smartest? When was I my best? But I just thought that was such a cool way to think about both yourself and. And how to think of your identity and also how to think about the people in your Life. And I just loved that little nugget. It stuck with me. I was like, okay, that actually, that.

[C]

Stuck with me, too. Pretty good, now that you're saying it. I remember it exactly.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

All right, fine, fine. You've elevated my life.

[D]

Matthew, before we sign off, are there any poets that we do recommend? I figured maybe we could each give one of our favorite poets for people to check out if maybe they didn't get their fill from Matthew McConaughey's poetry.

[C]

All right, well, I love Sandra Cisneros. She's Mexican, writer and a poet. She was like, one of my favorite poets to read growing up. So I recommend that.

[D]

Great. And I am going to recommend Frank o', Hara, specifically his book Lunch Poems. Check it out.

[C]

I gotta say, I'm also just a sucker for E. Cummings, which, you know, I get. That's. Maybe at this point, like, everyone's like. Like, we know, but you go back and read E. Cummings and you're like, he's good.

[D]

Well, thank you guys so much for joining us as we took a deep dive into McConaughey's poems and prayers.

[C]

And you can also check out our podcast, podstruck, a rom com rewind on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And please follow us on Instagram or. Or tiktokodstruckpod.

[D]

And remember, we wanna read your makana poems. So go ahead and post them if you want.

[C]

Yeah, this was so much fun. Thank you, Chelsea, for having us as guest hosts, and thank you, my Chelsea, for shooting the ship with me.

[D]

Thank you, Elena, and also Chelsea Devontes.

[C]

And thanks for listening and Christina. Okay, bye.

[D]

Hi.

[E]

A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and every plate. We will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier.

[D]

You can join.

[E]

Leave a comment, chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there.

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