← Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Megan Thee Stallion’s Documentary and Rue McClanahan’s Life Lessons
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- [00:01]
Chelsea Devontes
This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini. With the Gemini app, you can talk live and have a real time conversation with an AI assistant. It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 to use Gemini live. This episode is brought to you by Disney's Mufasa the Lion King. Get tickets now for the ultimate family holiday movie experience. Reunite with the characters you know and the untold story you'd never expect. Witness Mufasa's rise from orphan to king and see how the legendary villain Scar got his name. Disney's Mufasa the Lion King in theaters everywhere. Now the kingdom awaits. Hello and welcome to Glamorous Trash. I'm your host, Chelsea devontez. And this right here is a brand new, freshly recorded hot, hot topper of brand new information book goss pop culture that we are going to play before we replay one of my favorite episodes of all time, which is our episode about Rue McClanahan's memoir. But before that, we got hot topics to discuss. So you know what that means. I am bringing on our guest for all cookie jars. It is our producer, Christina Lopez. Hi. Hi.
- [01:33]
Christina Lopez
Hi, Chelsea. Like, I haven't talked to you all day. All week?
- [01:36]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, all day, all week, all morning. Okay, so you were like, this actually isn't a cookie jar episode. What is this episode?
- [01:43]
Christina Lopez
I call it a pocket cookie. It's like a little thing you put in your pocket. A little treat for you. Enjoy later.
- [01:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, it's a tiny little pocket cookie that we have pulled out for you. Cause it's not a full cookie jar, but we do have, I would say, like five little topics to discuss.
- [01:58]
Christina Lopez
We still want you to have a little treat.
- [02:00]
Chelsea Devontes
A little treat. And listen, maybe the pocket cookie isn't even wrapped in a Kleenex. You just put it in bulge and hope for the best.
- [02:08]
Christina Lopez
I actually do that all the time. I have crumbs in my pockets all the time.
- [02:13]
Chelsea Devontes
Crumbs in my pockets. That could be the podcast theme song. Okay, so the first little hot topic I want to get into is we have to discuss holding space, which is a meme, a viral moment that came from an interview on the Wicked press tour. And so we're going to play a little bit of that interview and then we're going to talk about some memory that happened on the Internet. But what happened basically, is this interviewer, Tracy Gilchrist, a journalist for out magazine, was interviewing Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo. And we're gonna play a little clip right now. This week, people are taking the lyrics.
- [02:54]
Sophia Alexandra
Of defying gravity and really holding space.
- [02:56]
Chelsea Devontes
With that and feeling power in that. I didn't know that that was happening. I've seen it. Yeah, that's really powerful. Everyone's on the brink of tears for this interview moment. It's very funny. I loved it. But then please describe to everyone what you sent me from Miss ScarJo. Scarlett Johansson.
- [03:16]
Christina Lopez
So Scarlett Johansson has a skincare line, and about, like, a week after the holding space thing happened, she posts a meme in front of her skincare line, and she's like, when you have to do your skincare routine, but you're too busy holding space with the lyrics of defying gravity. And it's just like, I get you're trying to hop on a trend that's a little too late to hop on the trend.
- [03:37]
Chelsea Devontes
And also, if you know anything about holding space, you would definitely be doing that while you do your skincare routine. Like, one does not get in the way of the other when it comes to how holding space happens. You know what I mean? I desperately, desperately need that to be like, she logged into Instagram late. Was like, ooh, I have something hot to say. Because if a social media person who I think it is, or an intern led her to this, that's grounds for dismissal, my friend.
- [04:04]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, no, I am pretty sure it's social media professional who, like, maybe needs to brush up on some strategy, because this was not it.
- [04:11]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, so then you sent me another video. So tell me what Tracy Gilchrist is up to now.
- [04:21]
Christina Lopez
I was just, like, scrolling my FYP maybe a couple days ago, and here she is holding space for things at the Mac cosmetics store. Just, like, opening up different blush tins and saying, like, we're holding space at.
- [04:34]
Chelsea Devontes
The Mac store today. Is everyone aware that we're holding space here today? Making sure you're all holding space back here. Can you just give me one second? I need to hold a little space. You have a bigger bag.
- [04:44]
Sophia Alexandra
This one doesn't really hold enough space.
- [04:46]
Chelsea Devontes
I'm like, I am thrilled for her because it became such a moment. Get your bag. But again, you don't get to attempt to make fun of holding space when the only reason it's funny is because you were so serious about it. She was so sincerely bringing this up as a journalistic news item when holding space. She's like, did you know people are holding space for the lyrics? Which is like, it's a beautiful thing.
- [05:15]
Christina Lopez
And then she backpedals. She's like, well, I don't know if it's like, widespread, but I've seen a couple of posts about it, and it's like, okay, so then what was the actual question? It just wasn't thought out. I think the big thing that I saw was like, people were like, what does it mean to hold space? And I'm just like, oh, no. Is this like a theater theater term or is this like a therapy term that hasn't been widespread. But then there were videos about explaining what holding space means.
- [05:39]
Chelsea Devontes
I know. And so to leverage it into a brand deal where you're in on the joke. No, ma'am. Go be sincere about it so that it can be funny again. To be like, wink, wink. Is like, no, it's not funny anymore.
- [05:49]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, I think it's not a great placement for that nonprofit manager energy that she's bringing to the table.
- [05:55]
Chelsea Devontes
That's right. That's right.
- [05:57]
Christina Lopez
I hear you. I see you.
- [05:59]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Well, this brings us to our. We got two more Hot Topics. Okay. So, Christina. Yes. I was having a day and I went to our reviews because that's what you do when you want to just play Russian roulette with your mood. You know, you're like, this is going to get way better. This is going to get way worse. And I saw this review from a woman who gave me one star because I didn't like Matthew Perry's book and she did not like my laughter with my friends. But then I saw this review that I just was so beautiful and so lovely. So I'm just gonna read it a little bit. It's from Carly Cartwheel. Love the name. My favorite podcast of all time. I'm not saying that lightly. I listened to 21 different podcasts because I work in a warehouse that requires little interaction with others. So. So big podcast listener here. She said so many nice things and she ended it by saying, please do an episode on Megan Thee Stallions documentary. And so, as a thank you for such a kind review, we are going to do just that. Because good reviews just really help us.
- [07:09]
Christina Lopez
Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's like basically, imagine having a Yelp page. It's like a Yelp page review for a podcast. And like, the more you, you know, positive reviews and adds an air to legitimacy, it doesn't really do anything specifically for the algorithm, at least within Apple podcasts, but it is important to your holistic display of Your show and whether or not people are interested in, like, you know, clicking play. So it definitely helps in that regard. It gives you more legitimacy.
- [07:39]
Chelsea Devontes
You do have to intake a lot of feedback when you're putting yourself out there. And I am currently putting myself out there in memoir form and podcast form and as a television writer. So I'm just getting, like, tons of feedback all the time. And a nice review like, that really does go a long way to, like, have, like, a thicker skin. So I just want to say thank you. And as a thank you, let's talk about Megan Thee Stallion's documentary. It came out on Amazon prime very recently, a couple of months ago, 2024, and it is titled Megan Thee Stallion in her words. And I want to recap a little bit of it to Christina. Christina, you haven't seen this documentary, have you?
- [08:16]
Christina Lopez
I have not seen it yet, but I am very intrigued. I did follow her case a little bit, and I think it's important. You know, obviously, I grew up being a fan of hip hop. I think it's, like, endemic of a lot of cultural things in hip hop and a lot of things that need to change.
- [08:30]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [08:30]
Christina Lopez
So I'm very intrigued by the documentary overall.
- [08:33]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, so I'll give you just sort of like my headlines, and then you can ask questions if there's more intrigue available, maybe for me to give over. But yes, overall, I want to say loved watching it. Highly recommend you watch it. There's only one artistic element I really did not enjoy, but I'll talk about that in a second. But first, I want to say that the documentary really, really, really is her 2024 memoir. This is Megan's memoir in a documentary in that she clearly has full control. She's taken artistic, narrative license. She's friends with the person behind the camera that starts to come out. It's like, this really is her and her camp's narrative of, like, Meg's year.
- [09:13]
Christina Lopez
I like that for her, the art that she was coming out with at the time, talking about her depression as a result of this was so real and so raw. And I think that giving more context to it is only going to improve how we absorb her art too.
- [09:27]
Chelsea Devontes
Break it down.
- [09:28]
Sophia Alexandra
And I had the whole world watching. But the worst part is really who watched me? Every night I cried, I almost died, and nobody close try to stop me.
- [09:34]
Chelsea Devontes
Long as everybody getting paid, right, everything will be okay, Right?
- [09:38]
Sophia Alexandra
I'm winning, so nobody tripping.
- [09:39]
Chelsea Devontes
But if I ever fall off, everybody go Ms. Heading.
- [09:41]
Sophia Alexandra
I'm sitting in the dark room thinking probably why I always end up drinking.
- [09:45]
Christina Lopez
Yes, I'm very depressed.
- [09:46]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. I learned things about her and her case that I didn't know about. So the biggest thing is that she and her mom were so close. And you get to see this footage of her mom in the documentary, and it really is a theme I've called out in this podcast a lot, where when you truly come from nothing and you're not even a Nepo Kit, but you're not, like, one of those people that, like, has money, though, like, when you have nothing, oftentimes the pattern I'm realizing is that you had a family member who tried first. So celine Dion had 12 brothers and sisters who tried to become musicians, and they have, like, gone so far that they can lift her up. Mariah Carey's mom was trying to be a singer and got so far, and then, you know, she gets to, like, go the rest of the way. I've seen it in a lot of memoirs, and here it's Meg's mom. She was a rapper.
- [10:37]
Christina Lopez
Stevie Nicks's grandfather was trying to become a country singer, and they would often do duets together when she was a child. That's why she was so good at kind of, like, doing those dual perspectives, harmonies, harmonies and stuff, because she used to sing with her grandfather as a child, and he never made it. And then she became one of the biggest rock superstars in all history.
- [10:58]
Chelsea Devontes
Man, that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I feel like we could keep going. It's like Ginger Rogers made it because her mom had wanted to be an actress. Like, there's a lot of, like, you know, one family member does half the work so that you can make it in your own young lifetime. And seeing Meg's mom is amazing. She's just, like, such a cool character. And seeing how she coached her, like, in how you coach someone into, like, having, like, better raps or even just, like, you can twerk better, baby. Like, go, like, let's get a sexier video of my baby. Yeah, it was fantastic. I think Megan Thee stallion is the most mesmerizing, beautiful woman to exist. Like, she. She really kind of, like, she takes my breath away when she performs. And so in the documentary, you also just get to see tons of, like, early performance or performing. Now, I never really. I know everyone else realized it, but I was like, oh, yeah, she's always almost half naked doing these incredible dances and raps and, like, that. I don't know, but that's such power. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you've been doing that in heels and a bare leg your whole life, like, that's hard. Yeah, yeah.
- [11:58]
Christina Lopez
It's that Ginger Rogers quote. Like, she did everything Fred Astaire did, but backwards and in heels. She's doing everything the rappers are doing, but, like, you know, in heels and.
- [12:07]
Chelsea Devontes
In heels and, like. And she's fucking dancing. Y'all aren't. Most of y'all are not dancing. I'm talking to the dudes now. You're not, like, doing a choreographed dance, like, as you rap Perfectly. Yeah. I just think she's so talented. And then it starts to get into the case with Tory Lanez and both the backstory of her friendship with Tori, which I didn't really drill down into this part until I'd seen the documentary. But her mom passed when she's young, like, 24.
- [12:34]
Christina Lopez
Not only that, her grandmother also died within that same month. Like, that's huge.
- [12:39]
Chelsea Devontes
And. And that's. That was her entire. Her mom was her. Her manager, her support system, her everything. And she kept saying, my mom would want me to keep going, which means she lost her entire support system in the hardest business you could ever face as a woman, as a black woman, as a human. Like, this is the hardest industry. Loses all of her support, the person she loves most, and gets back up on stage within the month and keeps going. Yeah. And that's when she becomes friends with Tory Lanez. And Tory Lanez is a famous rapper. He first got famous with Sean Kingston, discovering him for his mixtape Conflicts of My Soul, and he is the one who shot Megan Thee Stallion in the foot. But she becomes friends with him, and, you know, she's really. It's a time in her life where her vulnerabilities are really raw and open for people to be taking advantage of her. And so there's two parts she doesn't like. Again, it is her memoir, and this is what she is ready for in 2024. I watched this going, I can't wait for her to write a book about this when she's 50, because there's a best friend breakup in all this. So Tory Lanez was sleeping, dating, situationship, whatever, ing with Meg Thee Stallion's best friend. And then her best friend finds out that Meg had slept with him as well. And it's so vague in the documentary that I can't even really convey the story to you because I don't know. You don't know all of it, but to the point of, like, were they in a relationship? Were they all just hanging out? Was there betrayal here? Obviously, yes, because that is all tied into this night when Megan's, like, in a. She's in a swimsuit. All she has on is a swimsuit in the back of the car when she gets out. Cause they're in a fight.
- [14:28]
Christina Lopez
Yes.
- [14:28]
Chelsea Devontes
And because she made him feel stupid. And she doesn't even say what they're fighting about. He pulls out a gun and shoots at her. And he shoots her in the foot. And I think at the time, people were like, oh, it was just the foot. It's like, what do you dance on a foot? Like, he was taking away her ability to perform.
- [14:47]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [14:48]
Chelsea Devontes
And tied into this is this best friend who is the. It is her best friend since she was young. Her assistant and the only witness to say that Meg isn't lying. And because of them both being with him in whatever capacity, the best friend never comes out and says, meg's not lying. He shot her instead. She says, I don't remember. And she conspires behind Meg's back with Torey to, like, get him out. And then the twisted part is that Meg lies to the media, to bitch ass Gayle King. I'm sorry, Gayle King. Like, you had an okay place in my heart. But she interviews her and is like, were you sleeping with him? It's like, why did you do that to her? And she lies on camera. And then in the documentary, she's like, yeah, I lied, of course. Yeah, I slept with him. But she also doesn't detail it. She's like, who cares? This doesn't matter. Definitely her friend should have come out and stood up for her. But it does matter in their friendship. So that's part where I'm like, I hope you write about that actual friendship breakup.
- [15:51]
Christina Lopez
I think it was also because of the amount of scrutiny she was getting in the press and from the public negatively for what she was going through. She was getting, you know, totally lambasted by aspects of the public for, like, what. What was happening with this trial and that they were trying to paint her like.
- [16:10]
Chelsea Devontes
Like a lying slut. And. And then that was the part of the documentary that if you have ever experienced domestic violence and. Or violence of any sort, which I have. Yeah, it was really hard to watch.
- [16:23]
Sophia Alexandra
It was really, like.
- [16:24]
Chelsea Devontes
It could make me emotional if I'm not careful. But there's just so many similarities in a way that is both uplifting because you're not alone. And this is, like, so systemic and also debilitating because you want the most. You want women who are famous and talented and powerful and all the Things that they tell you give you power to somehow have it better than you did. And to see Meg be treated like dog shit and be treated like how they treat victims of violence and domestic violence as, like, sluts and dumb. And any perfection ruins your case. Like the fact that she had slept with him, which does not change whether he shot her or not.
- [17:07]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [17:07]
Chelsea Devontes
And everyone acted like it did. And Gayle King participated in creating that narrative. And, of course, like, it was a lot of men and a lot of male culture, like, being, like, free. Tory Lanez.
- [17:18]
Christina Lopez
Like, yes, it was.
- [17:19]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, it's really. Was really painful.
- [17:21]
Christina Lopez
It was all over social. It was all over Twitter. The discourse that was happening while that trial was going on was fascinating but also gross in a lot of aspects.
- [17:31]
Chelsea Devontes
Horrifying. And also a lot of it was because she was a black woman. And the sexualization of, oh, well, she dresses like that or she raps about certain things, therefore she doesn't matter in this world. And it's okay to shoot Megan. Thee stallion. What the fuck? Yeah. So it's very twisted. It's very complicated. Meg really walks through it and stands up and goes to the case, and happy ending. He's in jail. But you see how traumatized she is. You can see in the documentary when she starts not functioning well, when her brain is so impacted by trauma and can't get out of it, and she goes away and works with a trauma therapist, and she talks a little bit about that. And when she comes back. Yeah. And she talks about, like, how trauma puts things in your brain in the wrong place, is what she says.
- [18:21]
Christina Lopez
Absolutely.
- [18:22]
Chelsea Devontes
And I thought that was, like, such. Isn't such a nice, simple way to put it. Put things in the wrong place. You work with a therapist to help put them back in the right place. And, yeah, it's excruciating because she's just the most incredible talent. And that they did this to her is horrifying. And it's also uplifting because she walks through it and there is some justice at the end of it. And there's only one aspect that I really did not like about the documentary. So push through it. But when they are talking about, like, her childhood and the shooting, they decided to dramatize it with, like, almost these anime cartoons, these animations. But the animations are, like, really? Because, like, when it's a memoir and it's a documentary, you're getting, like. So it's. It's. You want to get closer to the truth in reality. And when you're seeing, like, this really Beautifully animated Meg in a swimsuit. And the shooting is recreated through these, like, kind of fantasy, like, you know, cartoons. It kind of. It took me out of it.
- [19:22]
Christina Lopez
I know that Meg herself is a big anime fan, and so I wonder if that's how she views her inner life and how. And that's, like, how she. Her way into approaching that is to animate it, you know, and that's how she confronts that.
- [19:38]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah.
- [19:38]
Chelsea Devontes
I definitely think she made that choice with the director. But there's this moment where, like, you're going through the crime in these animations, and they cut to the real footage.
- [19:47]
Christina Lopez
Oh, wow. Okay.
- [19:48]
Chelsea Devontes
Of her on the sidewalk.
- [19:51]
Christina Lopez
Ooh.
- [19:52]
Chelsea Devontes
And the police are there. And it's such a starker, more intense reality than allowing your brain to stay in the more fictionalized reality as a viewer.
- [20:04]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [20:05]
Chelsea Devontes
So that part wasn't for me, but also, you know, whatever. Doesn't matter.
- [20:09]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. I think you can take that. It might be just a personal thing for you, and it's not necessarily a whole ding on the project. Yeah.
- [20:17]
Chelsea Devontes
No. And I think some people might love it. That might be the part of the project that allows them to get into her story even more. Yeah. It just made me love her more than I already do. Made me so sad and in pain over our justice system. What's new. And made me excited for her to memoir again one day in an actual book form or in a documentary. Yeah.
- [20:39]
Christina Lopez
I think she would probably write an excellent book with, you know, probably a little helpful ghostwriter just for, like, you know, structural purposes. I mean, she's been telling her story in her art, in her reps, for ages. But I think, like, having it zoom out once she's processed her trauma and once she's kind of, like, lived with it a little bit more, you could.
- [20:58]
Chelsea Devontes
Tell it was so painful for her to have to be like, yes, okay, I slept with him. Like, and I lied about it. And it's. You could see the pain level goes to 10, because now it's intertwined with your victimhood and what do you deserve? And to be a survivor and to be a good friend and. But then it's a witness. Like, it's so. It's such a tight little trauma knot.
- [21:16]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [21:17]
Chelsea Devontes
That I really. I really related to her. And I can't wait till she has, like, more distance on it and revisits.
- [21:23]
Christina Lopez
It and she unties the knot a little bit. Yeah.
- [21:25]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Like, loosens it a little bit. Oh, she's. So Just. Just. If you need to pick me up, just watch any performance of her just fucking standing there. She kills it every time, just laying it down.
- [21:36]
Christina Lopez
I remember there was, like, a bet. One of the first big performances I've seen of her is, like, from the BET Awards when it was, I think, 2020. So they had, like, Covid restrictions, and so everybody was doing everything on, like, private sets. And so we can look into the show notes. That's one of my favorite performances of hers.
- [21:53]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, I can't wait to see that. I haven't seen that.
- [21:55]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, it's really good.
- [21:56]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. I love that. Well, thank you, Carly Cartwheel. And thank you, everyone who writes nice reviews. Yeah, it's very nice. And thank you. And we appreciate it. And we do read them, and we do. If you have a recommendation or something you really want or a reason why, give us your case and we'll hear it out.
- [22:12]
Christina Lopez
And if you feel like leaving us a review, that would be great, too. It helps us get more Yelp stars and might bring in people to click play on the show.
- [22:22]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. And listen. And now I'm gonna go back to trying not to see them again, but we'll see if that works.
- [22:27]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, right.
- [22:28]
Chelsea Devontes
I only ever make it so long. I know. Thank God Christine is here with me, holding my hand. Okay, so you. I. I pressed play on Later Daters. It's a Netflix show about people dating later in life. I was already a little like, oh, it's Michelle Obama's Netflix deal. And, like, I just don't want. This is. My. My husband says this all the time. I don't want my presidents of my country to want a Netflix deal. Like, I don't want that for them, and I don't want it for me. I don't want them to be like, well, once we've run for office, we can produce some reality shows. I don't want that. But it's here, and it is a beautiful concept of a show. I pressed Play. It wasn't trashy enough for me. Yeah, listen, glamorous trash. I like trash. This is sort of like a beautiful document.
- [23:13]
Christina Lopez
This is hard.
- [23:14]
Chelsea Devontes
So tell me.
- [23:14]
Christina Lopez
This is my lane, because, like, sometimes when I watch dating shows, it feels like a little bit Glinda and Fiera when they're like, you're perfect. You're perfect. So we're perfect together, you know? And I just, like, I need.
- [23:26]
Chelsea Devontes
And then, you know, they're enemies and villains.
- [23:28]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, I guess. But for this one, it's like, oh, a lot of them are, like, widowed people who are, like, just now getting comfortable with the aspect of, like, they might have had their forever person, or maybe like, they've come out of a bad marriage or, you know, whatever, and they're trying to sort that out while dating. And the reason why I started watching it was because my Nie, my eldest niece, actually recommended it. And she's like, you're going to watch it, but you're going to notice that, like, there's a lot of people with red flags. Like, red flag, red flag. And I was like, it's great at nine. Yeah, it's great at nine that she can recognize it. And so then my mom binge watched it. And I think I've talked about this before, but we lost my dad in September 2019. My parents had been married for 34 years. They were together for 38 years. And, you know, it's been exactly five years since we lost my dad. And my mom is just starting to open up to the idea of maybe getting back out there and dating. And my brother and I have both said, you know, you have permission to do this. Like, we're fine with it. And my only rule is that they have to be older than my brother, who's 42.
- [24:36]
Chelsea Devontes
Come on, she can date. You gotta be able to do that.
- [24:38]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, she can date younger. I actually think she should date younger because she's, like, very active. She's young at heart, and so I think younger would actually benefit her. But yeah, I think that's the tie. I think I do have, like, a personal, like, oh, I kind of want to see what my mom's journey would be like, getting back into the dating world after being out. And you kind of see people engage in that. And their. Their kids also help them along the way and, like, try to help them set up dating profiles. It's just like, I just find it really wholesome and cute. So I've only watched the first two episodes, but I'm enjoying it. So if you want, like, a little wholesome watch that, you can maybe do with your parents and have, like, fun conversations around that. Because I've been calling my mom after each episode and. And she's like, can you believe this guy? She's like, that's my worst nightmare. That's why I don't want to go on the apps. And I'm like, okay.
- [25:22]
Chelsea Devontes
You're like, okay. But there's also other people out there on the app.
- [25:25]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, I was like, there's ways to filter it out when you're just, like, having a conversation. You know, you don't have to go right to dating. It's like, it Very much is weird to parent. And I had, you know, I've had a conversation about, you know, safe sex, you know, because elderly people, you know, get them STIs. They'd be like, oh, I can't get pregnant. I don't have to worry. And it's like, no, you do have to worry about stuff.
- [25:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, good for you, Christina. You're passing the message along.
- [25:53]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [25:53]
Chelsea Devontes
Sexual safety never goes out of style, my friend.
- [25:55]
Christina Lopez
Never does.
- [25:56]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, so you also said that your mom has. I know you have a really deep connection to Golden Girls, which is why I wanted to do the little topper of Rue McClanahan's episode with you. But I also think D'Lo, your mom, everyone we call, we call my mom Teen Mom Z. We call Christina's mom dlo.
- [26:13]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, Diana.
- [26:14]
Chelsea Devontes
That she has a connection. Yeah, she has a connection to the Golden Girls. Khaswil.
- [26:19]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. So my whole family actually loves the Golden Girls. Even my dad loved the Golden Girls. And so one day we were, like, going around the table and we were, like, trying to analyze who is who. What are you? My dad was very much a Sophia. Inappropriate, but, like, quick witted amazing. And I. Back then, I think I was 16 when we were having this conversation, and I was very much feeling in my Dorothy era, just, like, very cynical.
- [26:44]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, wait, can I. Can I guess who you are now?
- [26:48]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, actually, I'd be curious.
- [26:50]
Chelsea Devontes
Do you know who you are? Do you know which golden girl you think you are now?
- [26:53]
Christina Lopez
I will say I still feel very much a Dorothy, but I feel like I have a Blanche rising.
- [26:57]
Chelsea Devontes
I think you have a rose rising. I'm smart. Well, yeah, well, once you already. Once you have a Dorothy base, we already know you're smart.
- [27:07]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [27:07]
Chelsea Devontes
But you have a kindness and a sweetness and like, you want. You want to know how people's hearts are. Like, I'll take it.
- [27:15]
Christina Lopez
Yes. I'm like, do I tell boring stories about Minnesota? No.
- [27:21]
Chelsea Devontes
You also don't yell all the time like Dorothy. No, but I think. I think if you're a Dorothy Bass, you got to have a rose rising. Because that's the kind of.
- [27:28]
Christina Lopez
That's totally true. I would never fall for a fool like Stan, though. That's the only way I'm not Dorothy. Like, I would not suffer that. I said to my mom, I thought my mom was a rose. And she turns around and she's like, I'm a Blanche. And I was, like, scandalized. Cause I was like, mom, you don't sleep around. She's like, you didn't know Me before I met your father. And I was like, ooh, ooh, ooh.
- [27:51]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah.
- [27:53]
Christina Lopez
So I think I'm trying to get my mom.
- [27:54]
Chelsea Devontes
So she's letting you know how it's gonna go when she gets on that app?
- [27:58]
Christina Lopez
Yes, I think I'm trying to get my mom to go back into her Blanche Devereaux era.
- [28:02]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, I love a Blanche Devereaux era. That's phenomenal. Okay. And Rue, you know, Rue McClanahan, for anyone who I can't imagine you press play not knowing this, but her character is Blanche Devereaux, and they have a lot of overlap as human and character. I would say after reading her book.
- [28:22]
Christina Lopez
Yes. And I was listening to the episode before we got on here, and it's juicy. Like, she drops some. Some details.
- [28:29]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, she really does. I. I love. Loved that book. I think if you are just getting into celebrity memoirs, that is a just classic, incredible memoir to read. I think if you have never read that memoir and you love memoirs, like, this is one like, you should read. So one thing we have to add here is there's this incredible speech that she gives that I think we talked about in the episode, but I can't quite remember, but when she wins an Emmy, she talks about how a lot of people in this industry kicked her down. And her mom said, oh, Ru, don't you know that every kick is a boost? Which I love.
- [29:06]
Sophia Alexandra
Yes.
- [29:06]
Chelsea Devontes
And then she says, like, thank you to the people who helped me and to the people who gave her the kick. You'll be in the book. And this clip has been shared. I mean, it makes the rounds. It's been shared with me. Just hundreds of. I just get sent this clip all the time. It's incredible. But I also think that's what makes her memoir so good, because she was like, bitch, see you in the memoir. And she really lays it down.
- [29:31]
Christina Lopez
There's some women who feel so free by their age to say the truth, I feel like Rue was one of them. And then I think about the recent Lauren Bacall episode where it felt like she had to keep her decorum for this official record of her life. And I'm more interested in the Rue's of the world, who are like, here's what it was. I don't always come out smelling like a bouquet of roses in these stories, but this is how my life happened. And I'm laying it all bare for you to see.
- [29:59]
Chelsea Devontes
It's so much more of a gift. It's so much more. It's a gift to others, and I feel like, it's a gift to yourself. And you can Blanche Devereaux at any age, my friend.
- [30:08]
Christina Lopez
Yes.
- [30:09]
Chelsea Devontes
Like, it is a veil. It is hot and a veil to you at every area of your life. I gotta remind myself to do it. But one thing I want to say before we play the episode is that one of the great gifts of this episode is that Rue's co author, Joni Rogers, sent me an email afterwards, and I've been connected with her ever since. I read the email, I think on a New Year's episode. But she's this incredible co author and ghostwriter and writer who did Paris Hilton's memoir and all these other incredible books. And I feel so lucky because she's on the Patreon. And every now and then, she'll leave a comment that elevates my literary sense of skill set and self. Like, she'll talk about, like, oh, this, you know, the scene went waywards because of these qualities. And I'm like, ah, it's so good. And then when I posited on our Betty White episode, like, were she and Rue not friends because of this animal rights things, she was like, they loved each other. And, like, we had to cut that stuff out of the book. So I loved that. She, like, you know, sets the record straight. And. And you sent me that joke video of them telling dirty jokes to each other on the set of Golden Girls.
- [31:18]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, it was just beautiful to see.
- [31:20]
Chelsea Devontes
So beautiful. I wanna shout out Joni, who, like, told me about the process of writing that book, which was so incredible. And also, listen, I make mistakes on this podcast. And in that episode, Rue McClanahan had opened the book with a quote from Margaret Thatcher that made no sense. And me and my guest were like, what the fuck? Like, this is crazy. But because we had so many years on us, away from that cultural moment, it was clearly a joke. It was clearly sarcasm. And Joanie was like, hey, that was a fucking joke. We made up. We made up a fake quote from Margaret Thatcher, obviously. But I was like, oh. Because that's how the book opens. And she said she and Rue used to send things to each other, and Rue would send things to other people with fake quotes from celebrities.
- [32:05]
Christina Lopez
Oh, my God.
- [32:07]
Chelsea Devontes
Always ride that good dick, Margaret Thatcher. So anyways, when we talk about in the episode, just know that Margaret Thatcher did not ever say that, and you were just being very dumb and ignorant. Okay, anything Golden Girls you want to pass on before we replay this beautiful episode and the episode, I mean, it'll speak for itself. But my guest is so lovely and shared so much on it. It was really beautiful.
- [32:30]
Christina Lopez
I think this goes back to one of the quotes that Susan shared on the Lucille Ball episode where it was like, as much capacity for sadness and grief, you have to expand your capacity for joy. They can exist in equal expansions. And one of the things, one of the reasons why Golden Girls mean so much to me is because after my dad passed, we came home from the hospital and my mom had some of his laundry that she wanted to clean before she put it away. So it was like 2:00 in the morning, you know, and we are just like in this fugue state, having lost, having had suffered this big loss. And so I decided I was gonna stay up with her while she was waiting for this laundry, these laundry items to be done so that she could go to bed. And we decided to watch the Golden Girls. And it was the episode where Blanche is talking about going to take a bath for her luxurious body.
- [33:25]
Chelsea Devontes
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go take a long, hot, steamy bath with just enough water to barely cover my perky bosom. You're only going to sip an inch of water.
- [33:45]
Sophia Alexandra
And in that moment, like, we were.
- [33:47]
Christina Lopez
Laughing, we were having a good time, and it was so weird to laugh right after something happened, but it, it is. It just served as a reminder to me and this show continues to serve as a reminder for me that you can hold both extreme capacities for sadness, but also extreme capacities for joy and hold them at the same time.
- [34:06]
Chelsea Devontes
Christina, I love that. Thank you so much for opening up and for sharing that. And I told you you'd have a rose side.
- [34:13]
Christina Lopez
My God, maybe I'm a rose moon.
- [34:15]
Chelsea Devontes
Rose moon. Okay, I'll accept. I love your love of the Golden Girls. It gives me so much love. And just thank you for sharing and thank you for doing this podcast with me and everyone. I hope you enjoy this Rue McClanahan banger. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be right back. Thrive Cosmetics is my favorite makeup. They have thousands of five star reviews, they're cruelty free, and they have my brand new favorite product that I have used every single day since I got it. It is their brilliant eye brightener, the shade Stella. I use this in conjunction with their Liquid Lash Extensions mascara, and it is gorgeous. I get so many compliments. It truly highlights your eyes and creates the most beautiful eyeshadow that has depth. Brighten your holiday look with Thrive Cosmetics, Luxury beauty that gives back. Right now, you can get an exclusive 20% off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com glamorous trash that's thrive Cosmetics. C A U S e m e t-I c s.com glamorous trash for 20 off your first order, go get that brilliant eye brightener shade. Stella hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast here to tell you about Michelob Ultra Courtside. It's getting fans closer to the NBA with a chance to win prizes like courtside seats, a trip to All Star Weekend, and much more. Check it out@michelobultra.com Courtside Michelob Ultra Superior Access Courtside 2425 Sweepstakes. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21 and up. Begins on October 1, 2024. Ends July 1, 2025. Multiple entry periods. Visit michelobulture.com Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and official rules. Message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited. I've got a lot of grandbabies. Like, a lot, a lot. And when it comes to finding a.
- [36:01]
Sophia Alexandra
Gift for each of them, you know, it could add up. But this year, while I was making.
- [36:05]
Chelsea Devontes
My way through Walmart, I realized I.
- [36:07]
Sophia Alexandra
Don'T have to spend a lot to get the gifts.
- [36:09]
Chelsea Devontes
They'll love an OPI mini mani set. I'm gonna do so much nail art.
- [36:14]
Sophia Alexandra
Oh, yeah. A Lego set.
- [36:17]
Chelsea Devontes
My own.
- [36:17]
Sophia Alexandra
A Walla water bottle. Ooh. And that's just half of them.
- [36:21]
Chelsea Devontes
Sh shop great gifts they're sure to love for $25 and under at Walmart. Okay, let's dive back into the episode. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dig into all of the glamour and all of the trash. If you've ever referenced Mariah Carey in therapy, then this might be the podcast for you. I'm your host, Chelsea Devontes. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author. And sometimes I'm in stuff, too. And this week, we are book clubbing Rue McClanahan's memo titled My First Five Husbands and the Ones who Got Away, published in 2007. I mean, has there ever been a greater memoir title that. It's the best memoir title I've ever read. I already loved Rue just from Golden Girls, and she is just as witty as her character Blanche, if not even more so. But here's what I'll say about this book. If you have a friend in a bad relationship and they are ignoring the red flags, buy this book casually. Be like, oh, my God, it's Rue. Make them read it. It will cure everything. 16 was a very difficult age for me. My hormones were racing, my body was blossoming.
- [37:31]
Christina Lopez
I had urges and yearning so strong.
- [37:34]
Chelsea Devontes
Sometimes I'd wake up in the middle.
- [37:36]
Christina Lopez
Of the night just sweating and screaming.
- [37:38]
Chelsea Devontes
And clawing like a trapped panther, unable to release the lusty, steamy passions that constantly threatened to erupt from within me. That was one of Ru's many amazing lines as Blanche and the Golden Girls. And we are diving into her book today with my amazing guest, Sophia Alexandra. Hi, Sophia.
- [38:01]
Sophia Alexandra
Oh, my God, I'm so excited to be here.
- [38:05]
Chelsea Devontes
This is such a long time coming. And Sophia has headphones on with little cat ears. And it is so cute. Okay, let me give your bio. Sofia is a writer and comedian who grew up in Odessa, Ukraine, and moved to Los Angeles at the age of 11. You might have seen her on Comedy Central's this Is Not Happening, talking about her grandpa's dick surgery. Loved that part of the bio. She tours all over the US Performing standup. And her first album, Father's Day, came out this summer. And last summer, one August, I did.
- [38:30]
Sophia Alexandra
Not rewrite my bio.
- [38:32]
Chelsea Devontes
Fuck it. You know what? Listen, time stopped last summer and it is still last summer. And Sophia, I even put a notes in my bio because I think a lot of the cookies are gonna fucking love this. So when Sophia dropped her album, she had the best album merch. She had the best anything merch of all time. She had Father's Day cards to send to your absent father. And she had gold hoop earrings that say daddy issues inside the gold hoop. They're my favorite piece of jewelry I've ever owned. Can you still buy them?
- [39:10]
Sophia Alexandra
Yes, you can buy them on my website. They come in big hoop, big bitch size, which is what I prefer. And they come in like, subtle. This is for work subtle bitches ones, you know, Subtle bitch.
- [39:22]
Chelsea Devontes
I love a subtle daddy issues earring to work. Wait, plug your website. Cause I genuinely think this is the best piece of jewelry ever.
- [39:29]
Sophia Alexandra
Okay, it's Sophia S O F I y a alexandra.com. and you can just look under merch.
- [39:38]
Chelsea Devontes
Listen, I'm not even trying to get you that hot merch. I just know how many cookies are gonna want them earrings. And I can want them Father's Day cards.
- [39:46]
Sophia Alexandra
Please get them because they are crowding my garage and looking at me like, you know, 10,000 pairs of failures. So please get them.
- [39:57]
Chelsea Devontes
Hey, listen, at least they're around like your dad wasn't. You know, they're always there. They've already delivered. They are your father.
- [40:06]
Sophia Alexandra
So true.
- [40:08]
Chelsea Devontes
So before we get into the Episode, I introduced all my guests with the story of how we first met. Do you remember how we first met?
- [40:16]
Sophia Alexandra
So I knew of you because obviously Yassir and I have been, like, close friends. He's one of my best friends since I started comedy, and it's been over 10 years now, so it's crazy how long I've known Yasu, and I've known him through exes that were not correct.
- [40:40]
Chelsea Devontes
That's such a kind term. They were incorrect.
- [40:44]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, they're just not correct. And then finally, he started dating you. And I was like, this woman sounds incredible. And then I was like, okay, we're having a Galentine's Day bar thing for just a bunch of, like, girls in la. And I was like, I would love for Chelsea to come so we could really, like, meet. And then that is when you came. And I was like, okay, I'm in love with her. And then I came home that night and I told Max. I was like, damn. And he's like, what? You didn't like meeting Chelsea? And I was like, no. Like, I like her too much. Like, if they break up, I'm rude.
- [41:28]
Chelsea Devontes
You were like, oh, no, he can't fuck it up. And truly, he can never break up with me because I'm never losing you. It's our deal. Okay. So I asked you to do this book you had chosen, Carrie Brownstein, which great book, but I was dying to read Rue's book. It was just sitting on my shelf calling out my name. So many people recommended this book to me. It's stunning. It's well written. It's so funny. It is a thousand times better than most memoirs.
- [41:59]
Sophia Alexandra
So true.
- [42:00]
Chelsea Devontes
Did you like reading it? Okay. You loved it as well?
- [42:03]
Sophia Alexandra
Yes.
- [42:04]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. But I will say this. There's something irking me about this book. And I would say I recommend this book 10 times over. It's incredible book. But there's something I'm gonna. It's, like, irking at me, and I think I might know what it is, but I'm hoping we find it. Throughout this podcast, there's, like, something that's, like, gnawing at me that's, like, missing. I think the thing gnawing at me is that the title is so great. It's her first five husbands, the one who Got Away. She gets married a sixth time. So she has six husbands in her lifetime. I think the thing getting at me is that I don't think she married for happiness the last time. And I don't think he was like, this great find. It felt A little bit, like, settling. And then I felt sad, like, sort of like there was no triumph. There was no perfect end of the story. What?
- [42:51]
Sophia Alexandra
I totally got the opposite. Are you kidding me?
- [42:55]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, good. Okay, good. Okay, good. Okay, we're gonna dive into a call.
- [42:57]
Sophia Alexandra
I'm gonna.
- [42:59]
Chelsea Devontes
So big overall to everyone. Rue is a young single mom with many terrible husbands, some of them abusive. She is working to make it as an actor, and she does not get. So being a single mom suffering through abusive husbands, she doesn't get her break until she's 40, which means she was pounding the ground with a small child at 40, she gets her huge break. And even then, she doesn't even become famous famous till she's 50. And so I didn't realize how late in life it took her till she made it, which I thought was so fucking cool.
- [43:34]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, I love that, because I think I expected the Golden Girls part of the book to hit so much earlier, you know? And then when I realized too much book.
- [43:43]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [43:44]
Sophia Alexandra
I'm like, oh, this is, like, mostly over, and she hasn't gotten there yet. Like, oh, this bitch had, like, a whole ass life and never stopped working and was so serious about her craft.
- [43:56]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes. And never gave up.
- [43:58]
Sophia Alexandra
No. And I really also just. The way that she kind of treated her career in terms of, like, the lessons that she took away of, like, oh, well, this thing wasn't for me, you know? And, like, what should I. You know, how do I decide between this and this? And, like, I. And the way that she just felt committed to her own taste level of. I know this is a good script. I know this is a good play.
- [44:26]
Chelsea Devontes
And she goes to Every single job she had in her whole life is, like, in this book. But she opens it, okay? So she opens it with a quote that I could not believe who it was attributed to. If men can be categorized for their looks on a scale of 1 to 10, they can also be graded for their sexual prowess, A to F. The person behind that quote, Margaret Thatcher.
- [44:50]
Sophia Alexandra
Thatcher.
- [44:52]
Chelsea Devontes
What? And then throughout the book, she tells us every single person she's ever fucked, which is so tight, and gives them a grade, and it's like, abc.
- [45:02]
Sophia Alexandra
What about the irony of the fact that she's like, if you're looking for dirt here, you're not gonna find it. And then the. This guy was moderate in bed. This guy had a weak chin. This motherfucker was.
- [45:16]
Chelsea Devontes
Here's his full name and where you can find him.
- [45:19]
Sophia Alexandra
Here's a photo, his full name, the names of his children. I'm like, bitch, you are petty. Can you be honest? Like, it's delicious. That's why it was a good, you know, memoir.
- [45:32]
Chelsea Devontes
But also in. She's so funny throughout the book. It is. Everything is with a joke, which there's nothing I couldn't respect more in life. Like, everything is with, like, a little wink and a nod and a laugh. And so, yeah, you're right, she doesn't. She says she won't dish on the Golden Girls, but then she does, like, spill some dick sizes.
- [45:52]
Sophia Alexandra
She's like, I'm not gonna say anything, but Bea is clearly a huge bitch.
- [45:56]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
- [45:57]
Christina Lopez
Oh, my God.
- [45:59]
Chelsea Devontes
Bea Arthur. Okay, some first facts up top. Rue is part Choctaw, which Sierra Teller Ornelas told me a long time ago. And then another part from the beginning. Cause there's details all over this book, so I'm just giving some highlights. Another detail that I think left me with unease is that she talks about having this intense panic as a child. And she references it a few other times where she was like, the panic would come on, the panic would come on, but then it just kind of disappears and goes away. And we never address it. We never learn what it is. And it feels like she was sort of confessing as much as she could allow herself to give us.
- [46:40]
Sophia Alexandra
Well, she's.
- [46:40]
Chelsea Devontes
That she has an intense panic thing.
- [46:42]
Sophia Alexandra
She does return to it a bunch, but only as, like, I think she. Because mental health is kind of more of a recent thing. I don't think that, like, she fully integrated those. Even though she goes to therapy in the book and stuff. I don't think she fully integrated all those things together. And she thought, like, oh, well, this only gets bad in, like, these bad relationships or when things are particularly bad in this way. Instead of being like, oh, I might have, like, a depression anxiety disorder that is underlying everything that I've had since I was a kid, you know, and instead she's like, it's cause my dad wasn't there, and blah, blah. I'm like, look, honey, whose dad was. But I guess I also have anxiety and depression, right? So, yeah, who knows? Is it the chicken or the egg?
- [47:28]
Chelsea Devontes
You're right. And maybe she just never got the diagnosis and she was just mentioning as much as she knew. But here's one thing. One reason why we may not know what she struggled with when it came to panic is because she does see a therapist. Then she borrows money from him, and then she dates him. She dates him. She dates the fucking therapist.
- [47:48]
Sophia Alexandra
She's like, no, it's cool, though. We were no longer seeing each other. It's fine.
- [47:53]
Chelsea Devontes
This isn't fine in any way.
- [47:56]
Sophia Alexandra
Then she marries another therapist. Right. Or dates him.
- [48:00]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes. A Beverly Hills psychologist.
- [48:01]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, he does. She doesn't.
- [48:02]
Chelsea Devontes
No, she marries him.
- [48:03]
Sophia Alexandra
She does marry him. Yeah.
- [48:04]
Chelsea Devontes
Or psychiatrist.
- [48:05]
Christina Lopez
Yes.
- [48:05]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she was like. And then she hears him be mean on the phone to his patients. Is that right? And then she's like, yeah, I don't want to do this anymore.
- [48:16]
Chelsea Devontes
I mean, I will say this book is so hard to track. It's a little all over the place because there's so many, like, dudes coming up, then going away and then coming back and then. But the big theme of the book is on page 35 and then multiple pages throughout. She is like, please, please remember these words. These words. Yes, I'm gonna read it. She said, so this guy is trying to get engaged to her. And he says, promise me, if that you take one thing away from this little journey of mine, it will be to henceforth and forevermore always summon the wit to say, let me think it over. Repeat after me. Let me think it over. Because she gets pushed into all these marriages and she. Throughout the book, she's like, don't do it.
- [49:04]
Sophia Alexandra
And you, like, see her progressively learn the meaning of those words. And at first she's able to get them out, but not able to actually do the thing. Then she's able to think it over, but still makes the wrong decision. And then finally she's able to think it over and be like, actually, no. And breaks the engagement with that dude.
- [49:23]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes.
- [49:23]
Sophia Alexandra
Right.
- [49:24]
Chelsea Devontes
But it's such a long. It's such a long journey. And so actually, she grew up in Oklahoma. She kind of came up blue collar. She got into dance classes. And you're out of her childhood pretty quickly. She's like, I knew New York City was the place for me. But right at the end of her childhood, there is a guy in high school, Norman, and she loses her virginity to him. And Norman will come and go throughout her life. He'll be a part of this book forever. But then there's a guy named Tom. And Tom, after Norman, she starts dating Tom. And they sleep together. And when Tom finds out that he wasn't her first. Cause it was a lie of omission. She just never told him that she wasn't a virgin. He loses his fucking mind. And I wanna read this page between Norman and Tom because.
- [50:16]
Sophia Alexandra
And also, by the way, it's all from a misunderstanding of words. But she wasn't Originally trying to be like, ooh, me tiny virgin. She said, and he was. And she's like, oh. That could also sound like I'm saying, I'm a virgin. I will let that stand.
- [50:32]
Chelsea Devontes
You're right, you're right, you're right. So she sleeps with Tom. She gets pregnant. Before she realizes she's pregnant, she's thinking about marrying between Norman and Tom. Which, by the way, in Loni Anderson's book, it was like, who am I going to marry of my four boyfriends? I'm like, what were y'all doing back then? It's just like, no one had enough technology to know that you had long term relationships going with multiple people at the same time and could marry either one on any day.
- [50:57]
Sophia Alexandra
So much easier to, like, hide a secret. Right, Right.
- [51:00]
Chelsea Devontes
And so she's like, should I marry Norman or Tom? She writes a letter to Norman being like, I wanna marry you. Finds out she's pregnant, rips up the letter to Norman. She says, my fate is sealed. She and Tom get married cause she's pregnant. And then, like, early on in the marriage, he says, I love you. He replied tightly, but I'm no longer in love with you. Oh, my God. I rolled out of bed crying, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Jesus, Rue, don't make such a big deal out of it. He said, I stood staring at the screen door, sobbing, oh, God, what if he looks like you? And that's, like, about her son.
- [51:36]
Sophia Alexandra
That's so brutal, dude. That just broke my whole heart.
- [51:41]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, so that is. That is how she becomes a mom. She. I believe she's 18 at the time, and she's like, I'm still gonna become an actress. Tom leaves her at some, like, shortly after that, and she returns to Norm.
- [51:59]
Sophia Alexandra
Can we talk about how she never lets a man go to waste? Like, these motherfuckers stay in her life for decades and keep doing shit for her, like building her show, taking care of her dad, possibly marrying her again, raising her son. She is a queen.
- [52:20]
Chelsea Devontes
She's like a coupon master of men. Just sort of like, you never know when the deal's expired, stock up. You can put them to use at any time. You're so right. Because Norm will come and go their entire. I mean, I think Norm gives their marriage a try, like four times, and Rue leaves him every time. She's always like, nah, not now. And he's like, no, I'll be here. But then at some point in one of their dalliances, he stops showering or bathing for eight months, which is the sign of a deep psychotic break. But that's one of the times she leaves them. She's like, well, you haven't showered in eight months, so I just don't think I can be married to anymore. And he's like, all right, see you later. And then in the book, she's like, then he did LSD 100 times, went on a bunch of great trips, found himself, and we're back together.
- [53:08]
Sophia Alexandra
Did it not cross some weird wires for you where you're like, what?
- [53:11]
Chelsea Devontes
I think, yeah. I think later on, she was like, oh, something was going on for him. So at this point in life, she's still at home. She gave birth to her son Mark. She starts teaching at a dance school. This is where she is the first person who opens up classes to white children and black children. When the white parents find out, they, like, pull their kids from the school and, like, stiffer all the money. And Sophia believes that she's, you know, maybe. Maybe bragging that she's one of the good ones. I sort of read it to be like, oh, it's cool that you did this. And she's one of the good ones.
- [53:43]
Sophia Alexandra
And she's also proud of it, which is fine. I'm saying we're all her. If we're good white people, we're all her, is what I'm saying.
- [53:54]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, I see, I see. Listen, I get you. And okay. So then Norm, even though she's left him, gives her his military pension as his wife, because I think they're still technically married. And with his pension for her son, who's not Norm's son, her mom gets them a nanny and she moves to LA and starts acting in plays. And what I love about her is her spirit. I mean, there's just so many. To be a mom at all with help is so hard. To be a single mom in her generation, in her year, and the dad has left, and she's gonna be a fucking actress. Like, it's kind of insane. So anyways, she gets to la, she gets an agent, and she's like, I know what I'm gonna do. She calls Tom. Also an actor, by the way, Norm, Also an actor. This is probably where she goes wrong with husbands, actors and psychiatrists. She calls Tom. She's like, hey, my agents want to see you. He hasn't talked to her or his son in years. And he calls her right back and he's like, hey, babe, when can I meet you?
- [54:55]
Sophia Alexandra
This guy, I mean, this man, she keeps him in his life and keeps, like, waiting for him to somehow, I think it's like, I mean, to psychoanalyze her real quick from the beginning, that when we understand that her dad is largely absent, I mean, she calls him Bill.
- [55:14]
Chelsea Devontes
That's not exactly this relationship nice to him. And then, yeah, calls him Bill throughout the book. You're right.
- [55:21]
Sophia Alexandra
And so instead of like looking for love and like, attention from her dad, she starts looking at for it with dudes. I mean, I've never done that, because that would be.
- [55:31]
Chelsea Devontes
I was just gonna say, Sophia, that's.
- [55:33]
Sophia Alexandra
Not at all all of my relationships, except for my husband. I mean, truly, who among us has not?
- [55:43]
Chelsea Devontes
Truly, even if your dad is good, who among us has not?
- [55:47]
Sophia Alexandra
And some of us go so far as to then look for that in our profession. And then we become stand up comedians. Look who among us does not. But I do feel like there is something like where she keeps chasing the people that reject her, and it's like she feels rejected by her dad. So she chases her son's father and she says throughout the whole book in the background that she's waiting for him to love her or to explain why it ended how it did, to explain why he doesn't take care of a son or he isn't there for the son. And like, she never gets that.
- [56:26]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, yeah. And there's a heartbreaking quote in the book where her son Mark says, mom, does every kid have a father? And she says, of course, honey, every kid has a father. And then he says, well, where is mine? And I was like, oh, Mark. And then that's what, honey. I was like, mark, I always want.
- [56:48]
Sophia Alexandra
To know where he is.
- [56:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Mark. We also. This is the part of the podcast where I say, Sofia and I heavily bonded over having daddy issues, which she had bonded with Yasser over having, and then I had bonded with. So we're all heavily bonding over, heavily dadless over here. Listen, anyone who listens to every episode of the podcast is like, bitch, we know, we know that you're in pain about this, okay? So she gets Tom on the phone by pretending her agent wants to meet him. Then she hangs up on him and he's like, my agent's not interested anymore. And she's like, I got him. Then she goes back to Norm again and says, they have sex. And Norm comes inside her and she says, oh, my God, you just got me pregnant. And sure enough, he did. And then the next chapter, she goes to Tijuana for an abortion. And it's maybe two sentences of just like, we ran down there and it was a nightmare. And it came back. It is the exact same story in Sally Fields book of really young. You have to go to Tijuana to get the abortion and it's a nightmare. And you just kind of like breeze past it. And it's wild to like mirror stories and books of like in that generation. It's like, yeah.
- [58:02]
Sophia Alexandra
And also how has changed love of.
- [58:05]
Chelsea Devontes
Just like especially in certain states.
- [58:06]
Sophia Alexandra
So it fights still happening and there's no abortion clinics and people can't get care in their state. That bums me out tremendously. I mean that was the same thing that like about race and stuff and whatever. In this book too, I'm like, you know, it's sad to think we did not come that far from. And all these other things are so like charmingly old fashioned.
- [58:27]
Chelsea Devontes
Every time I read these books I think, wow, we have made so little progress. And at the same time I feel we've made tremendous amounts of progress because there was nowhere to get healthcare like that in America anywhere. And now there is. And listen, not a lot, not in every state, but it's here. At least it's here. And it's like, oh, we have to like fight to protect it. So then on page 107, she types the words, you can find it on netflix.com and I said, how cute is that? Yes, this book is 2007. And then speaking of this thing keeps hitting me, which is that in certain memoirs from a certain generation, they will all write about President Kennedy's assassination and how it devastates them to the core. Jane Fonda, Dolly Parton, Cicely Tyson, Rue. Like everyone is like. It's like you can just feel Kennedy's presence throughout every celebrity memoir, which I think is a really. Again, when I say these books should be taught in history class because I can talk more about President Kennedy from these books than I can from my own history class. This is my lesson.
- [59:35]
Sophia Alexandra
It's also to me, very insane that the only like she has an incredibly photographic memory. I mean, I'm sure she also has mementos because she keeps saying, and I still have this. Which I thought was an incredible refrain through the book. And I still have this. But oh, you're right, it was just so cute. She even ends it in the end with it. She just is very cute.
- [59:57]
Chelsea Devontes
I love that.
- [59:59]
Sophia Alexandra
But yeah, I just think the pattern of her memorizing not only every play she got, but also didn't get when they started rehearsing, when they rapped like all that kind of stuff. The only encyclopedic Knowledge that she keeps. Like, the three things are her career men. She does not forget one dick or what their rating is.
- [60:25]
Chelsea Devontes
Never a dick forgotten.
- [60:26]
Sophia Alexandra
Not in the whole world.
- [60:27]
Chelsea Devontes
No dick left. Yes, exactly. Yeah. It's interesting, too, because I have to say, Patti LuPone's book did this as well, where they tell you every single play they've ever been in. And, I mean, I'm a theater kid, and I'm like, you have to stop telling me. You have to stop describing every single play. I think I'm too selfish. For there are certain memoirs that are written for the Die Hard fans. The fan who was like, tell me every play you've ever been in. But then there are readers like me. I'm not here. I'm not here to know your rehearsal schedule. It's not why I'm reading.
- [60:57]
Sophia Alexandra
I mean, same with the dogs, right? That's what I was trying to say. That's the third encyclopedic thing I know, but I disagree.
- [61:02]
Chelsea Devontes
I'm here for the dogs. I want to know all the dogs that come in the house.
- [61:05]
Sophia Alexandra
I don't want to know the dogs names or breeds. Look, I love dogs, but it's. What am I keeping a diary about these dogs that I update daily? What are you talking about? This is way too much dog information.
- [61:17]
Chelsea Devontes
I disagree. I liked the dogs, didn't like all the play information. And then there's a photo at the end of the book where it's her in the middle of all ten dogs. You're like, I knew there were a lot of dogs in this house. And she moves a ton, by the way. So every time she's moving, she's moving all these dogs. She's covered in 10 dogs. I said, hello, future. Hello, future me. Because you got a dog in Pandemic.
- [61:40]
Sophia Alexandra
Yes, of course I did. And I just. I'm obsessed with him entirely. I mean, my whole feat is him. But I still am not trying to read about your 10 dogs. You know what I mean?
- [61:52]
Chelsea Devontes
Also, what I loved is that. But the epilogue of the book, it's odd in a great way, where she's like, oh, by the way, this crazy thing happened at PETA. Isn't that crazy? And I do work for them. And here's the number if you'd like to support. And she's not cloying or showing off in the way memoirs talk about charity. It was very factual. And it was like, oh, yeah, no Wonder you have 10 fucking dogs. You're like a PETA advocate. I liked that.
- [62:16]
Sophia Alexandra
And isn't also Betty White huge into that, too. It was kind of odd to me that she never mentioned that. I'm like, does she think that Betty stole that from her or something?
- [62:26]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, we will pin this for the Golden Girls. Shakedown. Takedown. Okay, I have an order. And there's something extremely important on page 112, Rue has her first orgasm ever. Now, there have been a hundred pages filled with men. There are so many men before this. There are two husbands. There's a child. And no orgasms. That should be a crime. You should lock them up.
- [62:51]
Sophia Alexandra
And also, what? She's given dudes A's before this.
- [62:56]
Chelsea Devontes
She. Yes, men got A's.
- [62:58]
Sophia Alexandra
What is your scale? Your scale is fucked up. No, no one gets an A if you don't come.
- [63:05]
Chelsea Devontes
No, you don't get an A. You don't even get a B. Oh, my God. If you don't come, I don't even think you get on the book. I think you're expelled.
- [63:14]
Sophia Alexandra
Look, I mean, you have to. I don't know what else you have. Fed me a great meal. I don't know. Done my laundry to even.
- [63:25]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, I guess. Like above a V, massage.
- [63:28]
Sophia Alexandra
During above a D. Here.
- [63:31]
Chelsea Devontes
Cause what are we doing? Not to mention she's had plenty of alone time, which, you know, I don't know, maybe her generation. Not her thing. She has her own hand. No orgasm from her or another man. Yeah. And they got fucking. I mean, this was mind boggling to me. I was like, there's been. This is. It was tough.
- [63:48]
Sophia Alexandra
All the highlights in my book are blue. But that one I did in bright red because I found it unacceptable.
- [63:54]
Chelsea Devontes
Cause you were bleeding. Your heart was bleeding for her. Yes.
- [63:57]
Sophia Alexandra
Because I mean, to not even know, like, I guess what it is that she was giving him A's. Not knowing it could feel better. And that makes me so sad. I know.
- [64:06]
Chelsea Devontes
But. But. But then we're writing this memoir from way beyond them. You should adjust the scale. Put it. Put it on a curve. I mean, I know they say not to grade on a curve, but at this point, why not grade on a curve?
- [64:17]
Sophia Alexandra
Adjust the scale. You have to Retro scale.
- [64:21]
Chelsea Devontes
For inflation, for inflation, for inflation, for deflation, for the wrong kind of curve. Adjust the curve. The other crazy thing is that the orgasm came from this actor. This. It's like three sentences. It's this actor she met. Meanwhile, she's dating a new guy, John. She'd left Norm for John. No orgasm from John. And when John begs her back, she goes back to him, even though he's not the orgasm Guy. It was hard. Okay, I'm gonna read this.
- [64:51]
Sophia Alexandra
She's confusing. Cause she also keeps getting back with Norm while she's like, norm has trash dick.
- [64:58]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes.
- [64:59]
Sophia Alexandra
I'm like, you're gonna keep having trash dick. You keep trying.
- [65:03]
Chelsea Devontes
I don't know. Gonna get better. Also, what's crazy about this, just for anyone listening, is that she's constantly talking about sex in this book. That's why it's crazy, because if she was just like, you know, and then, you know, then I had my first orgasm, you'd be like, oh, okay, Interesting. You know, sad. Wish it had happened earlier. But she's constantly speaking about sex. So this book that was what was.
- [65:23]
Sophia Alexandra
Crazy is exactly like, I was delighted that the character of Blanche was actually probably had less sex than Rue McClanahan. You know, like, that made me feel really good.
- [65:39]
Chelsea Devontes
That was a cool part. I did like that. Okay, I'm gonna read this part about how she comes to Mary John. Oh, no.
- [65:48]
Sophia Alexandra
Wow.
- [65:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Of course. I got confused. This is not marrying John. She's then leaving John for this guy she calls the Italian.
- [65:55]
Sophia Alexandra
The people that she doesn't give a name to. I'm like, we can Google that shit too. You know that, right?
- [66:01]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, yeah. And I mean, but then you call.
- [66:03]
Sophia Alexandra
Out all these other people by name.
- [66:05]
Chelsea Devontes
And also, like, it's the Italian and it's the Greek. And then sometimes she calls them the husband. Then sometimes she calls them. It's. Yeah, it's odd. Anyways, so for this guy, it's a new husband. She said he asked her to get married. Good God. What should I have said? Come on now. You knew there would be a quiz on this. What are those all important words. Let me think it over. But did I say that? Are you kidding? I can't see you anymore. I told John miserably. Boggles the mind. No, I'll never forget that vision of him, all 64 of him standing under a yellow streetlight in the rain, tears streaming down his face. Big six foot four tears as I left him for a relationship I later wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Oh, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb. Damn it. It just occurred to me how much the 64 was a part of this. So, yes, so leaves a different actor who gave her an orgasm for a guy named John. No orgasm. John wants to marry her. Meanwhile, an abusive Italian wants to marry her. She marries the Italian. Oh, my God. By the way, Sofia, when I was reading the book and I kept reading the Let me think it over, I kept feeling like, oh, this is for me. Like, I need to remember this. Like, I need to. I just like felt it. Now, this isn't romantically, but I recently made a sizable financial purchase. Like certainly the largest amount of money I've ever spent at one time.
- [67:27]
Sophia Alexandra
What is it?
- [67:28]
Chelsea Devontes
It was like a gown for a big fancy event.
- [67:31]
Sophia Alexandra
Would you say it's like a Golden Girls painting?
- [67:34]
Chelsea Devontes
I would say it is equitable to a Golden Girls painting. Yes. You know, a lot of fucking money and in something that it's like hard to go back on. And I was deciding between two things and everyone who I talked to was like pushing me towards this one option. And it was in the moment and everyone's like, oh, do it. Buy this, buy this, buy this. And I literally heard the book reverberate at the bottom of my soul saying, say, let me think it over. And I heard it and I was like, oh my God, this is why I read the book this week. I often feel like I'm reading the books at cosmic times in my life. I was like, oh my God, this is what it is. Because I don't actually want this thing. And I'm getting sort of peer pressured to buying it. And then I gave him my credit card and bought it. And so I bought it. I bought it the next day. Chelsea. Yeah. I was like, I fucking hate this. And so, but it really, it's like, it's so hard to say, let me think it over when you are a fucking people pleaser, you know, and when you want everyone to feel good, you cannot. You just say yes instead of taking your time and buying you, you know, the brain, the brain width to say.
- [68:47]
Sophia Alexandra
No and yes 100%. And not just that. I feel like there's a second component to it that is like, as women we are taught for so many years to be agreeable, to go along with things, to be, for that to be like a quality. People like in us, if we're polite and well mannered and blah blah, blah, while we're like following those like, arcane weird ass rules, like, men are just like succeeding all around us because that's not what they're fucking doing. And so to me, like, one of the things that I use it for is for work a lot. Like that phrase is when, like someone asks me to do a show and like, my, like, you know what I call, like bobo mentality will be like, okay, I have to say yes. Like, what if there's never going to be another show? Like, I better say, what if there's.
- [69:41]
Chelsea Devontes
A show for 12 people in a Basement.
- [69:43]
Sophia Alexandra
You're not doing a show. You're not alive. Better say yes to the show. And it's like, will you just for a second think, is it worth your time? Is it worth the money? Did you even have what they're paying you yet? Like, transportation, et cetera? Just, like, the immediate instinct to just say yes, I have to quelch it because part of me is just afraid, like, I'll never work again. Even if it's not even work. It's a spot at a laundry.
- [70:13]
Chelsea Devontes
It's free, you know, it's not money. Yeah. God, that's such a good question.
- [70:17]
Sophia Alexandra
It's like scarcity mentality, where you're like, ugh, yes.
- [70:20]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes. And I will say, on top of just our gender and anyone who is feminine being taught to be nice and please everyone. I learned this thing in therapy. I'm gonna pass it on because it changed my life. If anyone needs free fucking therapy. Okay, so you've heard a flight or fight. When you have a trauma response, you fight or you flee. And there's a third one called Fawn. Flight, fight, or fawn and fawn, which is basically in order to get out of danger or make the big scary man happy. You're cute and sweet, and you talk them out of it, and you just be so sweet that they don't want to hurt you, and you do things for them and all this shit. And when I learned that, I was like, oh, fuck me. Because that is always what I did. I think it was fine. I would try and do that first. Oh, yeah. And then I would fight second. And then I would probably flee is like, third. That's. That's your fuck, marry, kill. Which one do you for? Which one do you do first? Sophia? Fight.
- [71:23]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, it's. It's. It's all kinds of fucked up. And then you. I feel like it's also common and also related to things like imposter syndrome and stuff like that. And then the people that mostly feel imposter syndrome are like, you know, people who are not men or people who are not white. So very frequently you feel like you don't belong. And it's not because you're crazy. You've literally lived in a society where you're made to feel like you don't belong for a long time. So when you finally do get entrance to something, it's hard for your body and your mind to, like, absorb it and process it. So you're still exhibiting that trauma response to being there because you're like, am I allowed to be Here, because for so long, you've been fighting to get there. And I feel like all of this is the same shit. It's like.
- [72:21]
Chelsea Devontes
And you're saying anyone who's not a white man often has to be.
- [72:23]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying.
- [72:24]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [72:25]
Sophia Alexandra
If you're not a white man, generally, you don't have the same access. And so when you're granted the access, it can be really freaky, and that's what's making you feel like that. And paradoxically, generally, the people that feel like they have imposter syndrome have more of a right to be there than anyone I know. That's like, the people who are not qualified, I guarantee you're not sitting at their house being like, oh, my God, I am unqualified. They're being led. Let's go invade Iran. Like.
- [72:58]
Chelsea Devontes
No, you're so right. And I think what's frustrating, too, is that even when you work on it, you then, you know, I'm in my own life with my own credit card, having a fun time buying something. Like, there's nothing that needs to be bad about that experience. And here I am still kind of stuffing down my inner voice in order to just, like, push through for no reason. You know what I mean? It's like, all positive. Okay, well, diving back in, here's where we're at. She is with the Italian. He becomes abusive, says he's not a babysitter to her son, hits her, threatens worse. The whole time, she is in New York City trying to break in as an actress, and she is going on audition after audition after audition, and finally she books a play. And, I mean, she's been in a lot of plays, but she books, like, a big one, and it's off Broadway, and she's great in it. And Norman Lear comes to see this Off Broadway play, and he says, I hope I can cast you one day. And two years later, she gets her first break in TV on one of his shows. And she's, like, in her late 30s at this point. Then he later puts her in Golden Girls. And I will say, even though we were just talking about the. Let me think about it. Don't do every show in this moment. I was like, take every opportunity. Never leave anything on the table. Everything is worth it. You never know what will lead to ever. Because she had gone on, she wrote in the book, 60 auditions, all of them nos for four years. And she's making money in other ways. And then finally got this play that Norman Lear sees and will later not even at that point, years later will change your life from it.
- [74:38]
Sophia Alexandra
I really like how honest she is. About. Like, I worked as a waitress during this time, and this is what I had to do for money during this time. I sewed these uniforms.
- [74:46]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, my gosh. She sewed 100 shirts in between TV shows. Cause she had no money.
- [74:50]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah. And I just. I mean, I love that kind of, like, realness. Like, if and when I write about my shit, I'm gonna be like, yeah, this is. This is the unglamorous shit that you do while you're trying to do it.
- [75:04]
Chelsea Devontes
You know, so many memoirs skip over it also, like, this is the most realistic story. Realistically, you ruin your Life until you're 40, and then you get one opportunity, and then maybe it can grow from there. Like, that is the norm of anyone who works in this business. Which is funny, because it's not the.
- [75:23]
Sophia Alexandra
Majority of these books the norm. But it's not the norm in Lear, huh?
- [75:27]
Chelsea Devontes
But it's. And it's not the norm she marries. Thank you. Good night. Bye. This is your trigger warning. Continued trigger warning. It's gonna get dark. Rue was in this marriage. But then her husband gets extremely abusive. Mark, in this book, it breaks my fucking heart. I'm gonna add Mark to the list. A segment called Women we need to check on. It is genderless segments. Mark is going in it. Her husband is being. Oh, my God. Her husband's being abusive to him. And then she writes. Then in the quiet, I heard Mark say, you know, this really isn't the way to communicate with me. No, Then what is? I thought to myself, you could just talk to me. You don't have to yell or hit me. How do I know you'd listen? My dad always hit me. Her husband said, well, you might try it. I'd listen. Yeah. Well, then just go on, I guess go on to bed. And Mark went to bed, leaving me astounded at the foot of the stairs. But this is where unfairly I'm like, you heard your son getting beat. You know what I mean? And you were of the time that you didn't step in or do anything so that this kid developed saying that shit to him. You know that this isn't the best way to communicate to me.
- [76:50]
Sophia Alexandra
It's pretty fucked up when the most mature person in a family is the child.
- [76:57]
Chelsea Devontes
Should that be a bumper sticker that kids can just put on cars when their parents are.
- [77:02]
Sophia Alexandra
Just when you wake up and that's on your car, you know you fucked up as a parent there needs to.
- [77:08]
Chelsea Devontes
Be like, little lawn signs you put in front of the house that says, the most mature person here is a child.
- [77:16]
Sophia Alexandra
Like, instead of my child. As a star student at Hamilton elementary, it'll be like, my child is the only adult in this household.
- [77:25]
Chelsea Devontes
My child has. Has the emotion, emotional burden of taking care of this whole family. Oh, yeah.
- [77:33]
Sophia Alexandra
I felt so sad for Mark. The entire book.
- [77:36]
Chelsea Devontes
The whole book also, I just want to say, like, it's not. Women who are abused often can't step in with their children. So it's not that I'm blaming her. I just. It's still hard to read about, though, you know, because I'm not even sure she was fully writing about it with the awareness of maybe how shitty that was. She was sort of like, isn't my son great? Anyways. Okay. Yeah.
- [77:58]
Sophia Alexandra
I mean, the whole. I. It's very hard to know what her relationship with Mark really is or, like, what he thought of the way that he was brought up. Because, I mean, we just read about those men, and it was tiring. Can you imagine having them just going in and out your house all the time? And he. They already moved every two years, and he spends summers and other times with his grandparents whenever she had to work and stuff. And I just feel like. I mean, the number one thing kids need is, like, stability. And I know, like, you gotta do what you gotta do and pursue your, like, love and craft especially. It's the only way she's, like, trying to make money to support them.
- [78:40]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [78:40]
Sophia Alexandra
So it's not like it pays off. Yeah, of course. So I'm not saying, like, she shouldn't have done that. I'm just saying you also gotta worry about, like. And think about, like, damn, like, I hope Mark recovered from that 100%.
- [78:55]
Chelsea Devontes
And that's a few of these books, like Cher's Kids, Sally Field's Kids, a little bit Loni Anderson's Kid, you know, where you're sort of like, because these women were put through hell, their kids also had to go through hell because the women didn't have another option. I'm gonna look Mark up after this. Okay. So then Norman Lear casts her on all in the Family, which then leads to his show Maude, which then leads to the Golden Girls. And what I love about this is that because Rue is in and out of relationships, she lives with a bunch of women, and she calls it the Hen House. And she wrote this. Looking back at it, the Hen House was similar to the Golden Girls. Leti, Linda, and I were three single women in our late 30s, one with a son living with her. Dorothy, Rose and Blanche were three single women in their 50s and 60s, one with a mother living with her. However, while both routinely qualified as comedy, one was real life and one was pure fiction. All the women had conflicts, that's true. But in sitcom world, everything works out in 30 minutes, minus commercials. The differences between Letty, Linda, and me were harder to resolve. But she basically lives the Golden Girls. Before doing the Golden Girls, it was.
- [80:07]
Sophia Alexandra
So cute that she didn't even realize that, because that's the first thing I said out loud. I was like, henhouse. That's the Golden Girls irl.
- [80:15]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, like that. That was the shitty title of the pilot before someone made him change it from Hen House to Golden Girls.
- [80:23]
Sophia Alexandra
That's the working title.
- [80:25]
Chelsea Devontes
The working title. So a few things from this chapter. So there was always this rumor online that her and Betty White switched parts, and that's how it happened. Which is close to the truth, but not quite the truth. It is true that they wanted Rue to read for Rose, but she read Blanche, and she was like, oh, my God, this part is for me. So she goes in as Rose, and then the casting directors say. And Norman Lear say, actually, how about you read the other part? And Betty White reads the other part.
- [80:52]
Sophia Alexandra
And she had been studying the Blanche lines anyway, just feeling like, it's gonna happen.
- [80:57]
Chelsea Devontes
It's gonna happen to be mine. And so then they're like, oh, could you look this over real quick? And she was like, oh, I guess I could glance it over already knew it.
- [81:03]
Sophia Alexandra
Yep.
- [81:03]
Chelsea Devontes
And then Bea Arthur didn't want to sign onto it. Cause she felt it was a ripoff of Maude. So Ru calls her because she knew her from performing. And she says she knew her from the previous shows she'd done with her. And she was like, hey, I'm not gonna be the ditz this time. Like, I'm gonna be the whore and Betty White's gonna be the ditz. You know, the two types of women.
- [81:23]
Sophia Alexandra
And she's like, go on, go on.
- [81:25]
Chelsea Devontes
Wow. Now this is an autistic play. Yeah. And that's how she signs off.
- [81:30]
Sophia Alexandra
Hold on, let me do Bea Arthur voice. So you'll be. No, I can't.
- [81:35]
Chelsea Devontes
No, do it, do it. Commit to it. Do it again.
- [81:38]
Sophia Alexandra
So you'll be the whore and Betty will be the ditz.
- [81:43]
Chelsea Devontes
But literally, it's the smart one. The whore, the ditz, and the crazy one. The four types for women. Until when? Probably still currently. Which one would you be? Sophia in real life. And if you had to play one.
- [81:55]
Sophia Alexandra
I would love to think of myself as a crazy whore.
- [82:01]
Chelsea Devontes
You're a little bit of both.
- [82:03]
Sophia Alexandra
I mean, if we're being honest.
- [82:11]
Chelsea Devontes
I would love to think of myself as the whore, but I would be. I'm Bea Arthur. I'm Bea Arthur. But worse, I'm Bitch Arthur. One of the other crazy things is that Estelle plays Sophia, and she had such an intense panic disorder that she could not say her lines. And it would take hours to get her to say her lines. She would try and leave the show. She couldn't say the words right, which broke my heart. And Ru, she says, like, I am not gonna dish on the Golden Girls drama. We got through it, and we had each other's backs, and we were funny and y'all can fuck off. And I was like, that's cool, and I respect that. And then there's like two pages of like, Estelle couldn't do a line to save her life, but, you know, we all had her back and we loved her, but, like, she was really bad on the show.
- [82:58]
Sophia Alexandra
So I think, yeah, this is what I was gonna say. So she doesn't know if Astel, if it was a panic disorder or if it was one of the symptoms of her, like, what is it? Like Lowe's body dementia. Isn't that what it's called? One of the things are that you can, like, lose concentration or not be able to, you know, to deliver like. And memory problems and all of that would be consistent. But then when they work together later, she doesn't seem to have the problem. And she low key implies that Bea Arthur intimidated her so much that Sophia, that Estelle Getty couldn't deliver her lines. So again, when she says she's not talking shit, she's not outrightly talking shit, but she is.
- [83:43]
Chelsea Devontes
She's like whispering the shit. She's asmring the shit in her book. She's like, read closely, fellow reader. And also. But this is that in between the lines thing where. So Bea Arthur, they knew each other from Maude. When Rue's mom dies, she doesn't have anyone to take her in that night. She can't hold it together. And Bea opens up her house to her and holds her all night long. This is before they're on the Golden Girls.
- [84:08]
Sophia Alexandra
Yep.
- [84:09]
Chelsea Devontes
And she says, no matter what, I will always remember that intense kindness. Then in the chapter, she talks about how this husband. We haven't even talked about the next husband, but this next husband who's really awful. Bea invites him to parties, keeps him on her Party list and cuts rue out of it. And it's this, like, abusive, awful, like, fame monger husband and so to be friends on a TV show together. And I keep inviting your ex husband who's not in the business, and I don't invite you who's on the show with me. Like, that's. That's pretty bad.
- [84:44]
Sophia Alexandra
I think what I gathered from everything she said about Bea is that Bea was like, snooty and kind of shitty and like, that she did not really have. She wasn't gracious. The fact that she just was a bitch to everyone. Cause she didn't win an Emmy until she won an Emmy Thursday.
- [85:05]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, that's right. I forgot all. Wait, tell everyone the Emmys shit.
- [85:08]
Sophia Alexandra
Okay, so the Emmys shit is epic because, okay, these are all leading ladies in an ensemble. And you know, of course everyone wants to win, but some people want to win more than others. Happy, Arthur. And essentially what happens is she wins, then Betty White wins and.
- [85:36]
Chelsea Devontes
No, it's Betty White first, right?
- [85:38]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, Betty White. Yes, Betty white. Then Rhea McClanahan. And then Bea wins for Best Actress and Estelle wins for Best Supporting the same year, third season. But until that happens the third season, she is salty as fuck to everyone. The first two. Because she doesn't win.
- [86:02]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes, yes.
- [86:03]
Sophia Alexandra
And it's so petty.
- [86:06]
Chelsea Devontes
I know. But then to me, what's even more noticeable is that Betty White is barely in the book. Just she talks about the kind of like, she wanted to be Rose and the Blanche and. But that's kind of it, I think. Again, nowhere else.
- [86:23]
Sophia Alexandra
If you read between the lines, she's like, oh, you know, everyone was really different. And like, Ro, Betty is a TV baby, you know, and she loves a TV darling. Yeah, she keeps calling her a TV baby. She's like, she grew up on tv, she's a TV baby, and she's always flirting with everyone, with the audience and being a ham. And she loves it. And, you know, Bea's strict and she's a theater actor and she doesn't break the fourth wall. And it's a whole thing of, like, a stylistic difference that she tries to, like, play it off as, but you can read between the lines. And she's like, Betty's more popular and seems to be a lot more of a Hollywood glad hander. And like, I'm not down with that. And she goes into a lot of detail about how her friends are mostly not famous, but even the ones that are famous, she, you know, knows all their, like, warts and blah, blah, blah. And they're all really real with each other. It's like you're putting that in to be like, that is not who you are.
- [87:27]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes, yes, yes. And it feels like she never got along again. Listen, we can talk about the feuds on Golden Girls. It's long gone, you guys. Okay, so during this time, she has a whole ass husband who she calls the Greek. And I'm only gonna read one paragraph about him. Cause it's all it needs, she said. A week later, the Greek relatives finally went home and we left for our honeymoon in Carmel, a lovely community up the coast. One of the most desirable places in California. I remember our first evening there, walking with him at sunset on the idyllic beach, thinking, oh, Lord God in heaven, I do not love this man.
- [88:05]
Sophia Alexandra
I highlighted that too. I highlighted that too.
- [88:08]
Chelsea Devontes
He's like a fame chasing bitch. And when they divorce, he takes Mark's college fund, all her money. And. But Mark's college fund he like, gets into, which is where I was like, I will find you. I will find you. This is one of the people that we will hunt that she was saving.
- [88:24]
Sophia Alexandra
For Mark's college fund. Since her days as like a waitress, essentially. She's been putting away money for so long, it's like so. It's devastating.
- [88:33]
Chelsea Devontes
It's weird, the nicknames she gives them. But then. Then listener, listen to this. Ru gets back together with Tom, the man who abandoned her and Mark years ago. And they go to an EST group together, and she's trying to learn why he left her so many years ago. They sleep together again, then he abandons her again, and she says, I'm free. And it's like, okay, I hope. And then later on, he dies and no one collects his belongings or identifies the body. But she got back together with Tom.
- [89:11]
Sophia Alexandra
Can we talk about how if you live a fuckboy, you die a fuckboy, which means alone. You fucked around and found out. That's what happened. Truly, you abandoned your son. You abandoned your wife. The only time you called her back is when you thought her agent wanted to sign you. You're so shitty. You're a shitty person.
- [89:32]
Chelsea Devontes
Also, I'm so sad that he is part of the psychic moment of her book, which is taking her to EST classes and. Yeah, so shitty. And you know what? Live a fuckboy, die a fuckboy. In the afterlife, he haunts as a fuckboy, like, you know what I mean? Like, fuckboy lives on sets of boy permanent style.
- [89:50]
Sophia Alexandra
Just jerked off. And the ghost of Tom Keel came out of his dick. And he's like, ooh, treat women better so you won't die alone.
- [90:00]
Chelsea Devontes
Then she sells kaftans on qvc. Oh, my God. If I got into antiquing, it would simply be to find a QVC. Rue McLanahan Golden Girls Edition Caftan. Teen mom says, honey, make your own.
- [90:13]
Sophia Alexandra
I also make mine.
- [90:15]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh. And she's so mad at some woman named Laverne there who wouldn't let her do her designs. And she's like, fuck Laverne. I never did the caftans again.
- [90:21]
Sophia Alexandra
But I love, actually, the lesson in the QVC debacle. Can you tell me she's talking about it? And she's like, look, I want to sell my peignoir. Is that how you pronounce it? I'm sorry. It's like a sexy nightie situation that she wore on the Golden Girls. It's a sexy nightie and a sexy flowing robe. She's like, this is my shit. Do you know how many letters I get where women are like, I want that. Can I buy that? She's like, trust me. I will sell the fuck out of these. And Laverne, whoever she is, was like, no, we don't sell that on qvc. We sell this. And she's like, we sell caftans. She's like, but you don't understand. I know my customer. She's like, but I know qvc. And then, of course, they launch all this other shit that she designed, like, whatever, Athleisure. I don't know. And then basically, the stuff that she knew was gonna sell the 90s sold out in a couple minutes. And the other stuff, yes. Took I don't know how long. And this bitch was so hard to work with. And afterwards, she's like, well, I guess we're just selling the 90s 90s now. And it's like, she told you.
- [91:36]
Chelsea Devontes
She told you. And she says, hello, Laverne. Eat worms.
- [91:40]
Sophia Alexandra
I highlighted that. But it's a great creative lesson. It's like if someone doesn't see what you have to offer and doesn't trust you and what you do, like, no, you're right.
- [91:53]
Chelsea Devontes
You're right. It was a great QVC lesson for all of us. That said was still kill for a captain. Okay, Then for some reason, if there is one person ru drags for filth in the book is Valerie Bertinelli. I don't know what Valerie did to her, but Rue, I think she dared.
- [92:12]
Sophia Alexandra
To be average, and I think it offended her so bad. I mean, fucking hilarious.
- [92:17]
Chelsea Devontes
Do you have the quote up?
- [92:18]
Sophia Alexandra
Oh, yeah. So Basically, this is after golden palace, which is like a reboot of Golden Girls, minus B, who doesn't want to do it again, gets dropped. This is her next job opportunity. Within a week, I was offered the role of a tough bartender in a new Valerie Bertinelli sitcom set in a Paris restaurant. Guaranteed for a full season, I would be paid a little over a million dollars. I read the script. No creative challenge whatsoever. The bartender had eight lines. The writing wasn't funny, and now this is the best part. Valerie Bertinelli was Valerie Bertinelli. And then she discusses trying to make the decision. But I would be guaranteed over a million dollars, which meant another year in my fairytale house in Encino. Network salaries had started to drop. This could be my last chance to make real dough. Should I play the bartender and run away with a meal? Plus supporting Valerie Bertinelli. What shall I do? Behave as an artist or as a businesswoman? This struck me as a reprise of my butt naked 2 bucks an hour decision. I turned it down this time. Goodbye, fairyland. Hello, dignity.
- [93:38]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, Valerie.
- [93:41]
Sophia Alexandra
Oh, you want aloe for that burn, Valerie.
- [93:44]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, I mean to also. This is what kills me. Like, and you know what? Maybe this was the equivalent of Twitter in 2007. But, like, at some point, Valerie Bertinelli had to be like, I guess I'm in Rue McClanahan's book forever as a big dumb bitch. Like, forever in the book. That's how much she hated it. Forever in the book.
- [94:05]
Sophia Alexandra
You think she doesn't know what she did?
- [94:08]
Chelsea Devontes
Well, okay, speaking of, then there is a book. There's a quote in the book that truly killed me dead.
- [94:15]
Sophia Alexandra
Is it the Sophie Tucker one that made you want to fucking kill yourself?
- [94:18]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Yeah.
- [94:19]
Sophia Alexandra
Okay. Me too.
- [94:21]
Chelsea Devontes
From birth to 18, a girl needs good parents. From 18 to 35, she needs good looks. From 35 to 55, she needs a good personality because she's dead. I was like, so what happened at 35? She's dead now, and from 55 on, she needs cash. It's like, what? Devastating. Devastating. Your life as a living, breathing woman ends at 35.
- [94:47]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah.
- [94:47]
Chelsea Devontes
And all of that is like a witty everything. Yeah, everything.
- [94:51]
Sophia Alexandra
You wither on the husk at 35.
- [94:54]
Chelsea Devontes
And then she kind of goes into, you know, stuff about money. But I was like, oh, no, you, like, believe in this. Okay. And then.
- [95:01]
Sophia Alexandra
But, like, she kind of has a lot of really wild quotes that she starts lot of these chapters with. Like, who opens a book with Margaret Thatcher talking about.
- [95:09]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, that's hilarious.
- [95:10]
Sophia Alexandra
That was a choice. That's hilarious.
- [95:13]
Chelsea Devontes
That was the coolest choice. It's like, who even knew Margaret Thatcher said that? Then she goes on to grade her lovers. This. This quote was an assault on her.
- [95:21]
Sophia Alexandra
Margaret Thatcher is a monster.
- [95:24]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, a monster.
- [95:25]
Sophia Alexandra
You're gonna quote, like, Paul Pot about, like, how much she loves women. Up top. Like, what are you talking about?
- [95:32]
Chelsea Devontes
I guess I thought, like. Cause it was Margaret Thatcher at me. It funny, but you're right. No, no, you're right.
- [95:37]
Sophia Alexandra
It's pretty ghoulish.
- [95:39]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay, so then we're at the end of the book, really, really tough. She gets breast cancer.
- [95:46]
Sophia Alexandra
And is this why you asked me to do this book?
- [95:49]
Chelsea Devontes
No, I had no idea. When I got to this part of the book, I was like, oh, my God.
- [95:56]
Sophia Alexandra
I was like, you know, breast cancer, me into this fucking interview. No, I'm just. Just kidding.
- [96:02]
Chelsea Devontes
No, Even when I got to. In the script, I was like, oh, God, no. Sofia, did you know Ru had breast cancer?
- [96:09]
Sophia Alexandra
Of course I didn't. Oh, okay.
- [96:11]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay.
- [96:12]
Sophia Alexandra
When she found that lump, I was like, oh, fuck. I know where this is going. This is how I found it, you know?
- [96:17]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes. And I met you right when you were having your party for being fully in remission. You actually had it. And then we, like, met right after that.
- [96:28]
Sophia Alexandra
It was actually just me finishing chemo. I hadn't even finished, like, all my other shit. I hadn't even finished.
- [96:33]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. We love a bitch who knows when to celebrate. Because I was a. I was like.
- [96:38]
Sophia Alexandra
I can't wait for that long. I just, you know.
- [96:41]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. So did this chapter, was this annoying to read, or was it like, here we go.
- [96:49]
Sophia Alexandra
It wasn't annoying to read, but I thought it was a little bit misleading in the diagnosis part because no one can tell you if the lump is breast cancer, like, straight up. And from the details that she got about the treatment, you could only get told those details if, you know, you get, like, a workup on your tumor, which requires a biopsy. No one's gonna squeeze the lump and be like, yep, that one's, you know, hr Like.
- [97:16]
Chelsea Devontes
Like, they don't squeeze the lumps in.
- [97:18]
Sophia Alexandra
Your boobs and start rattling off progesterone, an estrogen positive. And this one's, you know, like, her two positive. Like, that's not how it works. They. And every step is painful and takes in a different way, sometimes physically, sometimes mentally. But it also takes time, so you don't find out right away. It would be amazing if you came in, someone felt a lump, and they were like, you have breast cancer. No, like, it took me months. It goes months. Yeah, because it's a lump. Then you go see your gynecologist. The gynecologist is like, well, you're young. Most likely, it's fine. And prints out a little thing that says, there's, like, a less than.
- [97:57]
Chelsea Devontes
But 35. You'd be dead, but keep going.
- [98:00]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, but he's like, you know, less than this percentage chance of a woman in America who is in Europe, whatever, getting it. And then they do an ultrasound. And then my ultrasound. They're like, oh, we're not sure. And they only repeated it. Cause my grandma died from breast cancer, and I insisted that they repeat it. And then they were like, oh, so.
- [98:20]
Chelsea Devontes
They could have missed it.
- [98:21]
Sophia Alexandra
Yes. So I don't want it to be so misleading that it's like, you just have to do the one thing and come in, and they're like, we know what's happening. No, you have to keep being diligent and following up. And if someone's like, oh, we think it's this. No, you don't leave until you know what it is. And then after the ultrasound, they do a biopsy. And then they're like, oh, based on the tumor markers. And then they do a lumpectomy. Then they know the full, full workup. And then they go, you have to have chemo or you have to have radiation or you have to have both. I had both, you know, and then.
- [98:57]
Chelsea Devontes
They named it a lumpectomy, by the way. A lumpectomy.
- [99:00]
Sophia Alexandra
Mm.
- [99:01]
Chelsea Devontes
What a name.
- [99:02]
Sophia Alexandra
I know, but it sounds like what it is. I like it.
- [99:05]
Chelsea Devontes
No, you're right. It's just like, it's a lumpectomy.
- [99:07]
Sophia Alexandra
You're like, okay, like, Matt Stacking to me sounds horrifying. And I don't like the name.
- [99:11]
Chelsea Devontes
Thank you for saying all of this, though, because Rue breezes by it in her book. And Patti LuPone also breezes by it in her book. And there's another book where they just, like, in a paragraph, almost as if it was, like, uncouth to Cher, you know, or something like that. And what I do love with Rue is that she puts in a photo of herself completely bald. She gets staged. She looks so hot. She's finds out she has breast cancer. Comes out into the waiting room where Morrow is. Who knows who this is? He's her sixth husband. He's, like, there for her, and they're like, let's get married. She's like, hell, yeah. And they get married. During all of this, one thing that.
- [99:48]
Sophia Alexandra
I thought was so beautiful about that chapter is. She says she was so overwhelmed because she had simultaneously gotten the worst news and the best news of her life within 15 minutes of each other. Cause he proposes to her as soon as she finds out that she has breast cancer. And he proposes to her immediately. And he's like, I'm gonna be there for you no matter what. Like, I'm here for the long haul. It is. I'm getting chills because it is such a. So beautiful. And I think, like, people don't know what it's like to be there for someone who has cancer every day, day in and day out. It is a lot more brutal than you can imagine if you've not been through it. And, you know, my oncologist says that most marriages don't survive cancer. Breast cancer, anyway.
- [100:37]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, okay. Because it's the woman suffering.
- [100:40]
Sophia Alexandra
Because a lot of times people just. It's so damaging to the marriage, you know, that it just. A lot of times people don't make it.
- [100:50]
Chelsea Devontes
And did you. We can cut this. But when you were going through this, did you worry about your marriage at all? Like, was that part of it when you started? Yeah.
- [100:58]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah. Because, you know, like, my husband is, like, incredible. And he took care of everything practically, which is, like, great. Cause that's one thing I'm the worst at. But, you know, emotionally, he didn't really know how to, like, be there for me because he was just busy being there for me practically. And it meant, like, I literally didn't, like, get hugged or, like, have him kiss me or have sex with me for, like, months while I was going through it. And from him, it was like he was afraid to hurt me and was afraid to make me uncomfortable and whatever. And from my end, it just felt like, oh, like I'm already dead, you know?
- [101:40]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, Sophia.
- [101:41]
Sophia Alexandra
So that's just what it's like to be there for someone with cancer.
- [101:45]
Chelsea Devontes
Totally.
- [101:45]
Sophia Alexandra
When that guy was there for real.
- [101:47]
Chelsea Devontes
And that's someone doing Max is so incredible. Like, that's someone doing an incredible job. And it is hard to be. It's really hard to be there for other people's traumas that you. That you don't know anything about and you wanna just do the right thing. Can often be very alienating for both parties.
- [102:02]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah. And it's the same thing with mental health stuff as, you know, if one of you has a problem and the other one's a normal person, they're like, what the fuck is this?
- [102:09]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah. Like. I'm sorry, what? Especially. Cause mental health is an invisible issue. But Sofia Okay. So at the beginning of the podcast, I was down on this marriage and I said, I hope I can figure out what got me about this book. And you totally just turned me around on it because. Yes.
- [102:25]
Sophia Alexandra
And I also wanna read you the passage about her and him that I thought was really sweet.
- [102:31]
Chelsea Devontes
Please.
- [102:32]
Sophia Alexandra
So basically, he asks her, will you marry me? And then, will you marry me? And then she says yes twice. And then she says this about him. We'd known each other two weeks and five days. And while that might sound like the old Barrumph Barrumph, that's her being someone that's stampeding towards the edge of the cliff. For those of you that didn't read the book yet. So. And while that might sound like the old Brump Barrum to some, it was actually more like that time back in 1949 when I emerged from the subway on 42nd street, inhaled my first breath of New York City, and immediately realized, I'm home. Wow.
- [103:14]
Chelsea Devontes
What's wrong with me? How is I. How did I miss this relationship?
- [103:19]
Sophia Alexandra
I mean, it might have been just towards the end and you're like, ugh.
- [103:24]
Chelsea Devontes
Well, I think I was like husband number six and you knew him for two weeks. And I think I was just being judgy.
- [103:30]
Sophia Alexandra
And also, I was just gonna read the. The last paragraph. The paragraph after that, too. Sorry.
- [103:37]
Chelsea Devontes
Please, please.
- [103:38]
Sophia Alexandra
Christmas Day, 1997, Morrow and I were married at the Waldorf Astoria between my sixth and seventh chemo treatments. Let me tell you, she was feeling like such shit at that time. I was bald as a billiard ball. Morrow had bronchitis and a 102 degree fever. The wedding was ridiculous and the honeymoon was worse. But I've been Mrs. Morrow Wilson a lot longer than I was ever misses anybody else, and without a shiver of panic. So it seems to me like she made all of the mistakes with all of these other dudes. And then finally, by Morrow, it was the right circumstance and the right man.
- [104:22]
Chelsea Devontes
I want you to be right. And I think as I was reading it, I was thinking, oh, no, if the book went on, he's gonna go belly up. It was two weeks. The honeymoon was bad. The wedding was bad. You're in a really intense time in your life where maybe you shouldn't be making big decisions. Like, I was worried for this marriage. And then the book ends.
- [104:44]
Sophia Alexandra
The reason I think she mentioned that the honeymoon and the wedding and stuff were terrible is because she was talking in the book earlier about the times that that happened, and it was a bad sign to her. And Omen that, like, the marriage wasn't gonna work out.
- [105:01]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah.
- [105:01]
Sophia Alexandra
And I think now she was saying, oh, fuck omens. None of it means anything. This is right. And here's the reasons it is right.
- [105:11]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay.
- [105:12]
Sophia Alexandra
And that's kind of how I read her. Being like, this feels like home. I don't have panic when I'm around him. This feels right.
- [105:20]
Chelsea Devontes
Okay. I'm with you. I'm looking up how long they were married.
- [105:23]
Sophia Alexandra
Yeah, I'd like to know that too.
- [105:25]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, no.
- [105:26]
Sophia Alexandra
Oh, no.
- [105:27]
Chelsea Devontes
Sophia, Sophia, Sophia. What? I just googled how long they were married. They were married for 12 years and they separated in 2009, which is two years after this book came out.
- [105:39]
Sophia Alexandra
I told you I had cancer.
- [105:40]
Chelsea Devontes
I told you.
- [105:41]
Sophia Alexandra
God damn it.
- [105:42]
Chelsea Devontes
I told you. I was reading this going, uh, oh, no, that was fucking true. Also, I didn't Google it before this moment. Wow. Sophia, Sofia. I knew I had an unease when I finished this book, and I was like, everyone recommended this book to me. Why do I feel so weird? And now I fucking know I knew it. And here's the thing. 12 years married to someone that can be considered time. That's a long ass time. It's a real success. It is two years after writing these pages, though. So that's why I sort of felt like a little bit of like, we're here and we're good, but I didn't feel like a. Or like what you said it was breast cancer, which would be just the cruelest fate in the world. Okay, okay, okay. Sophia, I think we have come to the end. I think we need to do the booktal test. The book dual test has three questions. Was the author vulnerable? Did she share her truth?
- [106:34]
Sophia Alexandra
Yes.
- [106:35]
Chelsea Devontes
Yes. I say yes. Okay. Was it entertaining? Yes. Yes. So entertaining. Listen, just so many dick stories. Was your life elevated because of this book?
- [106:48]
Sophia Alexandra
Yes.
- [106:49]
Chelsea Devontes
Me as well. And really that, like, say you'll think about it. You don't have to answer yes or no. I'm really gonna walk away with that.
- [106:57]
Sophia Alexandra
I would like to thank her for being a proud, brave slut. And that is also how I self identify. And I do think it's just really fucking cool to be someone that is unabashedly and casually in charge of their sexuality and keeps relentlessly pursuing happiness in every area of her life. Whether it's with, like, the many houses and acres that she buys, many dogs, many friends, many husbands. Like, just the amount of joie de vivre, I think, is really, really inspiring. And the fact that she made it so much later than we are allowed to think you can make it.
- [107:50]
Chelsea Devontes
Yeah, that's incredibly empowering.
- [107:53]
Sophia Alexandra
I want to thank her for two specific other things, one being this sentence where she referred to Shannen Doherty as, quote, an experience, which is mwah. Love it. She also referred to Howie Mandel as Howie Deal or no Deal Mandela because he mispronounced her name at the Emmys. And she was super salty about it, and I love that. And then this passage, finally, which I would like to just memorize forever. Youth is not a time of life. It's a state of mind. It's not a matter of rosy cheeks, red lips, and supple knees. It's force of will, quality of imagination, and vigor of emotions. It's the freshness from the deep springs of life and the idea that every day is God saying to you, may I have this dance?
- [108:58]
Chelsea Devontes
Oh, that is so beautiful. Those will be the other edition of bumper stickers we put out right next to Perfect. Mwah. This child is running this house. Sophia, that was so beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on. And listen, you just heard how Sophia identifies. You're gonna see it on the ig. It's a hot follow. Where can they follow you?
- [109:20]
Sophia Alexandra
You can follow me at thesofia. That's S O f I Y A on Twitter and Instagram. And if you like podcasts, I have a podcast about love and sex around the world called Private Parts Unknown and another podcast about 90 Day Fiance where me and Myles Gray get high and do recaps. It's called 420 Day Fiance, so check us out and Sophie alexander.com for daddy issues Earrings and Sad Daddy Issues Earrings.
- [109:56]
Chelsea Devontes
A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hahn, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code TRASH. That's right, TRASH. T R A S H. Two audiobooks for the price of 1 at Libro FM. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.