Neko Case’s Memoir The Harder I Fight, The More I Love You (with Jana Schmieding)

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast Episode: Neko Case’s Memoir The Harder I Fight, The More I Love You (with Jana Schmieding)
Release Date: February 21, 2025
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Janice Schmieding

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Episode Overview

In this deeply engaging episode of Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast, host Chelsea Devontez delves into Neko Case's latest memoir, The Harder I Fight, The More I Love You. Joined by guest Janice Schmieding, a multifaceted writer, actor, and comedian known for her role in Peacock's Rutherford Falls, the duo explores the intricate layers of Case's life, her tumultuous upbringing, and her rise in the music industry.

Guest Introduction

Chelsea warmly welcomes Janice Schmieding, highlighting her impressive career in television and her own podcast, Sage Based Wisdom. Janice introduces her podcast, where she and co-host Brian Bahi dispense humorous and often questionable advice to callers, setting a light-hearted tone for the conversation.

How Host and Guest Met

Chelsea and Janice reminisce about their first encounters, sharing humorous anecdotes about meeting at a Stevie Nicks concert at the Hollywood Bowl. Chelsea recounts a memorable moment when she generously offered Janice the last piece of pizza, highlighting the quirky nature of their friendship.

Exploring Neko Case’s Memoir

Childhood and Family Dynamics

Janice expresses her admiration for Neko Case, describing her as an iconic folk and indie rock singer with a "witchy kind of badass figure." They discuss Case's painful childhood, marked by the death of her mother and the subsequent revelation that her mother had faked her death—a concept Janice describes as pseudocide. This traumatic experience profoundly impacted Case, leading to themes of neglect, abuse, and the struggle for forgiveness throughout the memoir.

Notable Quote:

"I wish it was easy to be done with people just because you want to be. To write them a letter and never think about them again."
— Chelsea Devontez [50:28]

Music Career and Artistic Journey

The conversation shifts to Case's ascent in the music world. Janice appreciates the lyrical beauty of the memoir but critiques the lack of detailed narrative around Case's musical training and the sudden emergence of her collaborations with renowned artists like Carl Newman. Chelsea echoes this sentiment, yearning for more insight into the pivotal moments that shaped Case's artistry.

Notable Quote:

"There were so much of her shows, I gotta believe, like, you know, once I went to a Brandi Carlisle concert a few years ago."
— Janice Schmieding [44:42]

Themes of Hate and Survival

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how Case channels hate and pain into her music, using these intense emotions as a survival mechanism. Janice relates this to her own experiences and debates the ethical implications of being motivated by spite. Both agree that while harnessing negative emotions can be empowering, it also poses challenges for long-term emotional health.

Notable Quote:

"One of the most powerful, energizing emotions is hate and pain. It can get you so far."
— Chelsea Devontez [23:56]

Struggles with Forgiveness

The memoir delves into Case's complex relationship with her mother, grappling with forgiveness and the haunting memories of her upbringing. Janice and Chelsea discuss the difficulty of releasing past traumas and the nuanced portrayal of forgiveness in Case's narrative.

Notable Quote:

"She grapples in the entire book with the idea of forgiveness, the concept of forgiveness... you don't have to forgive."
— Janice Schmieding [50:46]

Personal Reflections and Connections

Janice shares how reading the memoir transported her back to her own experiences growing up in the Pacific Northwest during the 80s and 90s, highlighting the pervasive rapist culture and the normalization of sexual assault in pop culture. Chelsea connects these themes to her struggles with hate as a coping mechanism, emphasizing the raw honesty present in Case's writing.

Booktool Test

To encapsulate their thoughts, Chelsea and Janice perform the Booktool Test, answering three questions about the memoir:

1. Was the author vulnerable in sharing their truth?
   Both agree—“Exceptionally, yes.” [48:34]

2. Was it entertaining to read?
   Janice finds it entertaining within its dark tone, while Chelsea feels it lacks structural coherence despite its beauty. [48:43]

3. Did reading this book elevate your life in any way?
   Both respond affirmatively, noting how the memoir deepened their appreciation for Case's artistry and personal growth. [49:01]

Final Thoughts and Conclusion

The episode concludes with heartfelt reflections on the power of sharing personal stories. Chelsea marvels at Case's ability to transform pain into compelling art, while Janice expresses a desire to connect with Case, citing their shared admiration for figures like Margaret Cho and their mutual understanding of the struggles faced by women in the music and entertainment industries.

Notable Quote:

"If she can do it, I can do it. Because when you see someone else do it, you're like, okay, maybe I can fight as well."
— Janice Schmieding [42:53]

Guest Promotion

Janice promotes her work, encouraging listeners to follow her on Instagram (@JanaUnplugged), tune into her podcast Sage Based Wisdom, and check out her performances on shows like Reservation Dogs, Spirit Rangers, and Clone High on HBO Max.

Conclusion

This episode of Glamorous Trash offers a poignant exploration of Neko Case's memoir through the insightful perspectives of Chelsea Devontez and Janice Schmieding. Their candid discussion not only sheds light on the harrowing aspects of Case's life but also celebrates her resilience and artistic prowess, making it a compelling listen for fans of memoirs, music, and authentic storytelling.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "I wish it was easy to be done with people just because you want to be. To write them a letter and never think about them again."
  — Chelsea Devontez [50:28]

• "One of the most powerful, energizing emotions is hate and pain. It can get you so far."
  — Chelsea Devontez [23:56]

• "She grapples in the entire book with the idea of forgiveness, the concept of forgiveness... you don't have to forgive."
  — Janice Schmieding [50:46]

• "If she can do it, I can do it. Because when you see someone else do it, you're like, okay, maybe I can fight as well."
  — Janice Schmieding [42:53]

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the emotional depth of Neko Case's memoir and the meaningful dialogue between Chelsea and Janice. It provides a clear understanding of the discussions for those who haven't listened to the episode.

Transcript

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[Chelsea Devontez]

Welcome to glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dive into all of the glamour and all of the trash. I'm your host Chelsea Devontez. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And today we are reading Nico Case's memoir titled the Harder I Fight the More I love you published just last month in 2025. Hot off the presses now. Nico is a very fam famous iconic musician. She's also just an enigmatic, very poetic figure. She's been a part of so many musical collaborations as well as doing all her own solo stuff. She was a member of the Canadian rock group the New Pornographers. She's performed and collaborated with so many artists. She recorded and toured for several years as Nico Case and her boyfriends, which is the best name ever. She was nominated for a Grammy for her sixth album, Middle Cyclone. She she has so many songs and I know so, so so many people in our Patreon, so many cookies were excited for Nico's book and I know she's meant a lot to so many people as a folk singer, indie rock singer and just sort of as a overall witchy kind of badass figure. So I'm excited to bring her story to you. She was once banned from the Grand Ole Opry for performing a show there and taking off her shirt and of course they were scandalized and said she could never come back. And in this book she'll re I actually was just like really hot. Like I was having A heat stroke. So I took my shirt off. I wasn't trying to be like a punk rock, you know, aggressive feminist. I was just really hot. Anyways, the Grand Ole Opry says she's allowed to come back now, so there's that. Now we're going to dive into everything in her story, but I do want to give a lot of trigger warnings for this episode for child abuse, child neglect, sexual assault, and suicide. So, as always, please, please take care when listening. There's so much to get into, so let's just dive in.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I'm so tired and I wish I.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Was the moon tonight. Our guest today is a writer, actor, comedian. She starred as the lead next to Ed Helms on Peacock's Rutherford Falls. She also served as a writer on the show, and her other performances can also be found on shows like Reservation Dogs, Spirit Rangers, Marvel's Echo, the Great north, and Clone High on HBO Max. And so much more. It's Janice Schmeeding. Hi.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm listen, Long time coming, right? I feel like I've been saying you're gonna be on this podcast for forever.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And you have your own podcast, which I feel like we should do a hot plug up top for.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Well, it's a little bit newer, but, yeah, I do. I have a podcast that I co host with Brian Bahi called Sage Based Wisdom, where we have callers and people who write in and ask for advice, and we give them, you know, pretty bad advice. Sometimes. Okay. Sometimes mediocre advice.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, Nice.

[Janice Schmeeding]

But for the most part, just two thumbs down, way down type advice.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I love that. And I introduce all my guests on this podcast with a story of how we first met. She just sort of highlights female meet cutes. How do you make a new friend? All this stuff. Do you happen to remember how we first met? I feel like, because I do.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I mean, the IRL first met. I think we're thinking of the same event.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I would love to find out. Yeah. Obviously, I knew you from afar, but irl, what's your first, like, real life memory of friendship?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Our first encounter in real life was at Stevie Nicks at the Hollywood Bowl.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, get this. That was our second encounter.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I, I but that's an important one.

[Janice Schmeeding]

But okay, you tell me. You tell me.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, okay. So I will say the Stevie Nicks moment is such a big part of my life. I actually wrote about it in my book. And a little fun seeker for anyone who's hardcore. Jana was sitting next to me at that concert that I wrote about wild. And my favorite part about this is that means I have another witness here to testify that Stevie Nicks best friend is Kathy Griffin. Kathy Griffin.

[Janice Schmeeding]

The way that Kathy Griffin got the most heartfelt random shout out from Stevie Nicks at the Hollywood Bowl.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Stevie was like, this goes out to my best girlfriend who saved me from everything. And we're all ready to hear, like, some childhood name we've never heard.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah. I'm like, oh, my God, who is it? I'm on the edge of my seat.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Kathy Griffin. I think we spit out our dreams.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yes. Because also I went with Marcos.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes. Who's a dear friend of mine.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And it was like, Marcos, me, you. And we were all just like, oh, okay, Kathy Griffin.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I mean, how do you think they became best friends? I know this episode is about Nico case, but just real quick, how in the fuck are Stevie Nicks and Kathy Griffin best friends?

[Janice Schmeeding]

First of all, I love Kathy Griffin, okay? I think Kathy Griffin is a fucking queen goddess. I also think that Kathy Griffin is like high roller. She calls herself like a C, you know, a celebrity, but the bitch, it rolls with a listers. Okay. And she's friends with. We know she's friends with Sia. Singer songwriter Sia.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, but that one. They became friends because Kathy got canceled when she held up the bloody Trump mask. And then Sia got canceled. So I think she found her in canceled sistership.

[Janice Schmeeding]

They. They found each other in canceled attention.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's exactly right. And I think Kathy was like, her way through. She was like, let me lead you, Sia. But Stevie Nicks, I don't know.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I wonder if they didn't meet during one of Kathy Griffin's sort of like, you know, I feel like Kathy Griffin has sort of publicly gone through a lot of ups and downs.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And it's. Stevie Nicks also has publicly.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Maybe we solved it.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And both raspy voices, which I love.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, well, very quickly I will just do the actual story of how we first met, because it's not super important, but another guest on this podcast, Sierra Tella Ornelas, created Rutherford Falls, and you are the star of Rutherford Falls. So obviously by proxy, I was then obsessed with you and wanted you to be my friend. And we were both at. I think it was like the season two premiere of that season. And we were at the after party, and I heard you behind me saying something like, everyone's been talking to me like, I just need a piece of pizza so bad. Because when you're the star of the show, everyone like, comes up to You. And I just heard you say, I need a piece of pizza so bad. And one of the waiter was coming in front of me with one piece. Piece of pizza left. And I. I picked it up and in my hands, my bare hands. And I turned around, I said, this is for you. And I remember the way you looked at me. I was like, oh, this is not the hero moment. I thought it would be.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I think it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

She's like, this woman is handing me her pizza. And. And. And you think you were calculating, like, do I take it? Has she poisoned it?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Oh, my God. Now I recall. And, yes, I love that. Did I take the pizza?

[Chelsea Devontez]

I think you did take it, because I think you were desperate enough. You were like, listen, I might not be eating for another, like, 12 hours. This woman's. You know, she got into the event.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I'm pretty sure that was the only food that I ate that night, so.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Because that's always what happened. And I was like, she's gonna remember me forever. Well, listen, I tried. Okay, Jana, tell me what your relationship to Nico Case is before reading this memoir.

[Janice Schmeeding]

You know, I am a longtime listener of Nico Case. I really love Nico's work. I'm a Lilith Fair girly. Okay. So I also grew up in the dark, musty Pacific northwest in the 90s. So reading this book was, like, transporting me back in time in a very visceral way, in a kind of a dark way.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, it's a very, very dark.

[Janice Schmeeding]

It is, it is. But, like, it does have sort of that, Like. How do I describe it? Like, sort of like a laissez faire darkness about it. Because here's another story about this book is I took it with me this last weekend to Las Vegas. I was doing an event for Native American Law Student association, and I brought it with me to finish reading. It was halfway through, and I lost it. I lost it in the airport. So my Nico Casebook is maybe in Nevada. It might be at Burbank. I don't know. Might be on an airplane. Somebody, some lucky reader gets to pick it up. And I kind of feel a little bit cool about that because I'm like, nico's book would want to be on the road.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's very true.

[Janice Schmeeding]

So I got the book on Audible, and I listened to the second half. I listened to her narrate her own book.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, I bet that was so much better than reading it.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Is that right when an author reads their own book? Especially, like, a memoir or something like this, Like, I love it so much more. But Nico's Reading voice is not super effusive. It's not. You know, she's not like an actor. So the way that she reads about some of these really dark. Like, if I were reading it, I'm like, in. I'm like, putting black eyeliner, like, crustily along my eyes, and I'm just like, getting into my, like, Portland, Oregon vibes. But she was just kind of like, you know, content warning. I'm gonna use the R word. But she was like, not that R word. I'm gonna say the word rape. When she's reading it out loud, she goes, and then I got raped.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's also how it's written.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Like, it's written really flowering, all this buildup. And then I was raped. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Tell me how you feel about this, because you're a Nico Case fan. I know of her, but I'm not a fan. And so this was. A lot of. It was very new to me, and I came away believing, like, if you're a fan of Nico Case, this book is for you. You're gonna love it. It's beautiful. If you're not an Nico Case fan, it's really lyrical, but it lacking some context and structure to invite a stranger like me inside it.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, I think. Well, I'll say this, like, after reading the book, I'm gonna get more into Nico Case. Loretta Lynn. I love Dolly.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Randy Carlisle.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Randy Carlisle. Stevie Nicks. I'm like a Lilith, girly through and through. I went to all the original Lilith Fairs in Portland, like, in the Pacific Northwest, like, when it was happening. I was a huge fan of all the. All those 90s, kind of like, 90s, early 2000s rock babes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, listen, we've wanted to do a Lilith Fair memoir episode, but not enough of them have written memoirs.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Which is wild. Which is wild. Like, give us yes, heed the call.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Of a dangly earring bouncing against the beads, tying together your tie dye halter top. Tis your time to write your memoir.

[Janice Schmeeding]

So anyway, that is my connection to Nico Case is that she has been in my shuffle since, like, the early 2000s, but never central. And after reading this, I went back and I started listening to, like, sugar cubes and stuff. Like, I was like, her references that she really just barely peppers in, you know, I was like, this is what I want.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's what was crushing to me because I was like, I can tell. I need to really know this music in order to understand the dabbles you are dabbling on this page. She doesn't walk you into it. You've got to come and get it. You've got to work for the music stuff. But she really hands you the childhood stuff. Yes, let's. Okay, I want to read a quote from the beginning. I loved this. I'm curious if you related. She wrote, I can't help it. It's a good stopgap answer to most questions about pursuing a creative life. The only one that makes sense when you don't have the time or wherewithal to explain it, or if you just don't think it's anyone else's business, you can get to why some other time. And then she said, luckily, somewhere down the line, I came to realize that if I'm nothing and I have nothing, what is the real risk of putting myself out there? If I'm so forgettable, my humiliation will be just a short weather event, a needy little rain shower. I can live with that. There are way worse things to be remembered as. And that's what she uses to get herself to try to be a musician. I related to both those sentiments. Yeah, I remember at several points in my career being like, well, if I'm gonna fail and it's gonna be painful, I'm gonna lose everything. I'd like to find out sooner.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, totally.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I should just find out now that I'm an untalented piece of trash and get it over with. And then the idea of people say, like, why are you an artist? I think especially right now, when it's as hard as it's ever been. I can't help it.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I can't help it. I feel like when. When I read that part, I was like, a hundred percent. Like, I was a teacher it for 10 years of my life. Yeah, I was a public school teacher for 10 years.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Thank you for your service.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And it feels like a service. It feels like I, like, have served in the military. Okay. That job is so intense. And I did comedy the entire time I was doing that. I was writing comedy and I was doing, you know, not really stand up, but I was doing, like, sketch comedy and improv comedy and, like, solo comedy and writing my own solo shows and shit like that. And I just couldn't help it. And all of my teachers, my teacher friends used to be like, how do you leave school and then go and have extracurricular stuff? And I had to be like, honestly, it gives me energy to do this other shit. Like, I can't survive without it or this life is too fucking dark. It really is.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. I loved all the stuff she wrote about artistic sensibilities. I forgot that you were a teacher. And then you're just like the star of a show. You truly have the most modern Cinderella story I've ever fucking heard. And there's more to it, everyone. You have to hear more interviews of like how you got the job and everything. Yeah, that's incredible. Okay, before we go further, I have to ask you, what do you think of the COVID Because this is one of the most distinct memoir covers of the year, if not the decade. It's her as a little girl. A real picture of her holding her cat. I think this is the cat that dies in the book. Yeah, I think this is Cammie.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Cammie.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And behind her is this cartoon or maybe like painted figure of this beastly.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Monster that I think she maybe drew or is.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, I think that's right. And I think she described it in the prologue. She talks about kind of falling through this vacuum. And she says, I see a kid running down the grayest street possible. At first she looks gray too, but then I see the embers of rage flying off her. She is rivulets of fur trickling out of her sleeves and down the back of her neck. A stray three beat gait. She is not even a she at all. Just an animal running as hard as it can, panting out of breath. So do you think the beast is like her images of herself?

[Janice Schmeeding]

I think she has a lot of moments throughout the book where she sort of describes herself as this beast. And I think that it's an accurate representation of what her experience was as a child. You know, what she had been sort of diminished to that image of her. You know, she's sitting near the heater vent picking fleas off of her animal and biting the heads off and spitting them into the vent.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I mean, in that image it'll come up a lot where she said, I'm still just that kid biting the heads off of fleas.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I know.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And that is definitely brutal. The book, the tone of the book. Brutal. Yeah, brutal. And the majority of this book is her childhood. So let's talk about just some highlights from it. Cause it is a lot of the book, but I mean, really the headline is that her mom, when she is how old? Six.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, five or six, I think.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah. I think she's very young. Her mom dies and she goes to her wake, she's at the funeral, all the family members are around like, you know, your mom has died. And then about a year later her dad's like, hey, don't want you to Freak out and think your mom is a ghost. Your mom's not dead. Prank. And you're about to see her. You're about to see your mom. And this little kid has processed her mom's death for an entire fucking year.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah. And also troubled processing. Not been supported at all in the processing of her mother's death. In fact, claims that the only comfort she ever received that entire year was one time she spent the night at her cousin's house and her aunt came in and said, I know, and went like that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And like, petted her head. Yeah. And her dad just like despairs into.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Kind of nothingness and starts sending her to school with like a slice of cheese. And it's so horrifying because as a little kid, you know, all she wanted was for her mom to be alive again. And all of a sudden she is. And so there's so much happiness. And then it comes in waves for her to be like, wait a minute, what? You faked your death? And I want to read it's way, way in the back of the book. But kind of the definition she came to on page 247. And what she had been told when her mom came back is that her mom had been diagnosed with terminal cancer and knew she was dying and she didn't want people to have to witness it, especially her daughter. And so she moved away to Hawaii where magic healed her. And then she couldn't be without her daughter and came back. And this is the story she believes her entire life until one day it dawns on her as an adult where she's like, wait, she probably never had cancer. And she wrote this as an adult. I learned there was a word for what my mom did. Pseudocide. Wikipedia informs me that pseudocide is the act of an individual purposely deceiving other people into believing that the individual is dead when the person is, in fact, still alive. Well, yeah. So that sums it up. What do you think the real story is?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Fucking weird. I have never heard of this before, but also kind of feel like this is like housewives behavior.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, my God. A housewife wishes she could pull this off.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I know, exactly. Like, a housewife is more like pseudo cancer.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah. Like I have. I have cancer and they're like, what? I have cancerous cells maybe?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The pseudo. That it's a thing that is defined and that she has experienced it is so weird.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I mean, obviously her mom has a lot of issues to have done that, but to do that to your child. Horrifying. Horrifying. Horrifying horrible.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And she sends her a baron, like.

[Chelsea Devontez]

A pony doll, like, from a Love Anonymous.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Here's some gifts while she's dead.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's right. And then she just is back and she gets a new boyfriend. He's a young archaeologist, which is like, yeah, okay. Yes, yes, yes. And she now spends her time between her dads, which is horrible. And then going to these archaeological digs where they have, like, a trailer on rural land.

[Janice Schmeeding]

On the res. On the res. They live on the right.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes.

[Janice Schmeeding]

That's the other thing about Nico Case I had no idea about. And reading this book, I was like, holy. Nico is like, down, dude. Okay. Ethnically, she is not native. Culturally, I'm adopting Nico Case. Officially adopting. She's ours. She belongs to us. She's a Pacific Northwesterner. She's Calapuya. She's warm Spring. She's of us.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It's so funny because, you know, the first time she wrote this kid was like, indigenous. I got nervous because oftentimes in memoirs, they're like, and then I met one black person, and then they, like, you know, move on. So I was like, oh, no. Oh, no. And I got really tense only to be like, oh, my God. She's speaking that specifically because it's a beautiful part of the story and it ties in with this. And, like, then she's meeting this other person.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And she talks about it a lot.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, a lot. It's a huge part.

[Janice Schmeeding]

She names the reservations that she lives on, all the land. She talks about all the land that she grew up on and, like, who it was stolen from. And then she also, like, goes to powwows in the summertime, which is also totally a Pacific Northwest thing. That was my upbringing too. I was at Powell. Like, I wonder if I saw Nico Case at fucking pow House.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Did you and Nico Case Brush Shoulders?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Do not know. She's a little bit older than me, but not by a ton. You know, it's just like. It's just wild to me.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I love that so much. And yeah, she. I mean, she's alone. Yeah, she's just alone. The neglect is really intense. And it feels like you're living these summers with her being fully neglected for. For just forever. Forever. She wrote this. She said, I don't care what people say about hate. It kept me alive. And she said something inside me knew that a new low level awareness that allows little kids to survive the world when it's at its ugliest. And that, like, hate keeps her alive. And I said, yes, bitch.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Hard, hard. Relate.

[Chelsea Devontez]

One of the most powerful, energizing emotions is hate and pain.

[Janice Schmeeding]

God damn it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Can get you so far.

[Janice Schmeeding]

You know, I was just talking about this with my boyfriend the other night because he's a musician. He's a bass player, electric bass player. And so, you know, he deals with the music industry a lot. So he's, you know, toured and he plays music in bands, but also writes his own music. But anyway, so much of what we have talked about and I read in this book was resonating because she talks a little bit toward the end about the industry and how competitive it is. And I feel this way about, you know, entertainment as well, where it's like, you have to have a kind of a grit. You do have to have a bit of a fucking, like, chip on your shoulder to make it through. You have to be able to harness it, you know, and she does. And she, she, like takes her hatred and makes music out of it. You know, my boyfriend and I talk about, is it okay to be motivated by spite? Is it okay to be motivated by.

[Chelsea Devontez]

You guys said yes, right?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yes, absolutely. You know, like, the answer is always like, because it doesn't feel pure. You know, it's like, is it, is it right, you know, is it morally, is it right to be motivated by spite? To be like, I want to be better than that fucking person or like, I want to get back at these people who doubted me or whatever, you know, like, so I'm going to fucking make it. And it's like, that's so many people's story. Like a phoenix rising from the ashes of whatever and just proving to people, like, fudge you, I'm a full person.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. Well, also, like, when someone fucks you over someone or something, you know, society, a person, just depression, inertia, pain. Right. And to get out of it takes so much energy.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And you know where you get energy from? Spice.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It's like, it's like, what else is going to help you stand up again? Sometimes that's the only thing. And then later therapists are like, this is really harm. And you, you should let it go. But it can do wonders can.

[Janice Schmeeding]

It can get you there, baby.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It really can take you a few places. Okay, we're going to take a quick break right now and we'll be right back.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Get the Angel Reese Special at McDonald's.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Now, let's break it down.

[Janice Schmeeding]

My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon, pickles, onions, and a sesame seed bun, of course. And don't forget the fries and the drinks. Sound good?

[Chelsea Devontez]

I participate in restaurants for a limited time I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3 will that be cash or credit? Credit. 4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion that does the heavy lifting so you can do you get [e-mail] compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy.

[Disney Plus Advertiser]

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[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, let's dive back into the episode. I mean, her childhood is just absolutely brutalizingly painful and painful to read about because she's very lyrical, very exacting. I've added a dingo to our Durango sheet where someone in detail describes a dog's death. I it's just something I just, I don't know why it's in so many memoirs. Wish it wasn't. It's here. And her very first time ever having sex, when she is 14 years old, she very quickly walks us into a story of meeting this guy and thinking she's having a crush and she's special and getting attention and then she is raped and doesn't go into those details. Which I thought, you know, is a lovely way of, of deciding where to center that story. And also on a previous episode, this sexual assault nurse wrote me the most incredible message, which is like you get to choose when your first time is. So if you were raped and you were not consenting, that is not your first time having sex. Your first time having sex is a choice you make and you always get to like, take that back. And I just felt so much pain for her because you can also see that like, she didn't get to process or heal. She just had to scab over and move on.

[Janice Schmeeding]

It also was very, to me, like, resonant of that time. I've been reflecting a lot about this as a woman in my 40s, looking back on what it was like to come up in the 80s and 90s, and just, like, how rugged it really was, you know, it was like a brutal, brutal time for women. Rape culture was truly like. Like worse than it ever has been. You know, completely normalized in pop culture. I grew up knowing that assault, sexual or otherwise, was a very relevant possibility and that you had to protect yourself. And the ways that you protect yourself are you just don't wear anything scandalous or it's your fault. You know, it's like, the shit was bad. And the way that in her book, Nico describes sort of the Green River Killer constantly in the background of, like, there's this serial killer on the news, and just, like, always around is just this threat of violence against women constantly, you know, and it's so real, that feeling of being in the Pacific Northwest, the threat of violence against women, an actual reality, a palpable reality, even. And being in a rural Pacific Northwest specifically, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I fucking get this in my bones. I feel it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, there's so much of it, too. You know, things get so bad with her mom after she and the archaeologists break up that she gets emancipated at 15, and she kind of breezes past it and she tries to make her way, but, you know, things get bad. She ends up back with her mom, who has a new boyfriend named Chip, who's horrible and abusive and an alcoholic. And one night she comes home to realize her. Her mom has been raped.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And her mom knows who it was but won't tell the cops. And that's what takes me back to. To that. To that culture of, like, being a snitch.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Right.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Far worse than, you know, you don't want to be a snitch to your own rapist.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Right. You know, and that, like, the rapist parks outside of their home and puts his lights on his car, you know, headlights on and, like, blasts. You know, they're, like, afraid of him.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Afraid of him. Yeah. Versus him being afraid of being reported. Yes. Because they knew. They all. They all knew they could get away with totally. And it was just woven into culture. So then she goes back and forth. A lot happens when she gets out of the house and makes it to Canada. And this is where the book really changes for me, because in childhood, we get, like, each moment, each step of the way, here's where we are. And there were times reading the book for me, where I'd be like, what? Wait, what? And she's like, okay, now I'm in this band. Meow. And then the name was taken. So we had to change it to now. And they all like wear these like fur bikinis. But it's not to be sexy. It's like to look like a diaper. And she's in the music scene. And then she wrote this. She said, I felt an electric current jagging through me the whole time we were recording. Like the days had taken an extra wattage. The project was mine to steward. And through the management of it, I developed a secret relationship with myself, one I had never experienced before. I had opinions about the sounds and gobbled up technical terminology like it was a meal I'd been starving for all my life. Every day it seemed a different musician I admired was in the studio helping me. And she's basically making her own album, just a solo album. And the Korn sisters are there and Carl Newman and all these like, collaborators that she'll have in her life for a long time. But I wrote like, wait, when did you learn how to do all this?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, like, did I miss something?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Like, when did she learn all these instruments?

[Janice Schmeeding]

I know. It's interesting that so much of the first third of the book is not about music at all. In fact, she gets introduced to Kiss by this native kid, Danny, and she's sort of like, yeah, I kind of like, he was like obsessed. He was like in the KISS army and he was trying to recruit me. And I was just like, eh, I'm not really into it. Music almost kind of like passes her by. It really isn't until her adolescence, which I think for a lot of us is like, holy. Like this is when music starts to really hit is like puberty, essentially.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, but training.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, but like not even. Not really playing any instruments. Not really like being exposed to music in school in a way that is like, hey, here's like music theory, you know. She says that she loved her music classes where it was like, ta, ta, teachy ta. You know, like learning that kind of stuff. But like, yeah, to me, for the entire book I sort of didn't really get the fundamentals of like her own training, her like, self learning process.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, because to be as talented as she is, you're like somewhere this seed, you know, began and how did you grow it? And it, it's kind of pops up magically in the book because you know how talented she is. And she's just like, yeah, I'm just doing my own whole thing. And then two pages later, which is not enough pages for me, she writes about a year and a half after the first album came out in 1997, a major label came a rap, rap, rapping on my chamber door. Picture it like something out of a fairy tale. There's a knock at the door, A fascinating stranger stands outside and they want to grant you all your wishes. It's happening, it's happening. Cinderella, look up. You're going to the ball. I was flown to la. I was taken CD shopping, treated to dinner. There was even a facial in Hollywood. Promises glinted through the air, but I was the one making them. I had this idea now with this deal, I was gonna have enough money to finally be safe from something I couldn' into words. My heart kept fluttering like it had wings. Then the deal fell through. Of course it did. Okay, that is the entirety of the details we get of how the hell her album got to someone who got to her, who gave her a record deal to how it went to how it fell through two paragraphs.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, I know. And I wonder also, like, when I read that part, I was like, is this, like, what it was like in that era? Like, is that kind of what kind of was happening?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Because I can't be.

[Janice Schmeeding]

It can't be. I feel like she was in a crew of people who were kind of popping off in, like, the punk scene. So she was, by proxies, being seen and heard, but I honestly couldn't tell you. Like, I was just like, she must have been immediately interesting.

[Chelsea Devontez]

There was so much lyricism and details. And we revisited the heads of those fleas getting popped off several times in childhood. And I'm like, tell me about the Hollywood fleas whose heads, you know, got chopped off. Like, I just needed so much more. This is what I mean by. It's like, you kind of need to know this because it was. I just. I want to know. I want to know so bad. And at this point in time, she is with Chauncey, right? There wasn't enough about that relationship for me. Let me read his intro in the book. I was 22 years old when I met Chauncey. It's odd. I think there are ways we all want our stories to be different. Bigger little details we would change if we could. If I had my way, I would have found my way to everything that happened next just by following my nose and intuition. But that's not what happened. I'd gone with friends to the Crocodile Cafe in Seattle to see a band he was in. I liked this band. They played energetic, danceable garage rock. We had a lot of mutual friends and we were introduced after the show. He was a tall, pink eraser of a man, dark Haired, awkward and funny. We hit it off, but I didn't think too much about it. I was coming off bad dating streak that had left me all the romantic yearning of a frozen piece of rock. Cod it was nice to meet someone and not automatically think about them as romance material just to be glad to have a new pal. Later I went along with some friends who were playing a show alongside Chauncey's band in Vancouver. And basically they have dinner at Chauncey's parents house where he still lives. And then she said as I was eating, I avoided looking at Chauncey, just noticing out of the corner of my eye that he was wearing flooded flares. He seemed bizarre to me and I felt a little embarrassed, experiencing a little thrum of revulsion whenever I saw the hem of those pants. It is, I know now exactly how I felt every time I've ever fallen in love. I mean it's such incredible writing, such beautiful moments about like, you know, how she feels when she falls in love and how she wants the events to happen. But, but I'm missing like just like actual core details and I think she's purposely hiding his true identity because I, I couldn't even like google stuff about him. Maybe a hardcore Nico fan knows, but I just, I couldn't easily find this information. What did you, what did you think.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Of Chauncey, I wonder? And I was wondering, as I was reading it, I was like, maybe she doesn't care about this part. Yeah, maybe she actually doesn't really value this part of the journey.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Or do you think she cares a lot or that that's kind of what I thought. I was like, ooh, this music stuff is too much process.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah. Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Because later she wrote that like Chauncey's new wife comes to see one of her shows. Sorry, my new dog has fully come in frame.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Adorable.

[Chelsea Devontez]

He's, he's our little foster fail. Hi baby.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Thank you so much for being here.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, I'm just obsessed with him. But she's like, oh, his new wife comes to one of my shows and I lost my mind. Like, you want my whole life too? Like you like get out of here. And I'm like, yeah, go for it. But also, what do you mean, do we love him? I think this is like her great pain. Basically after she records her solo album, she thinks like, oh, I'm going to be a big musician and Chauncey is going to be a big musician and we'll be musicians together. And I think she's getting her big record deal as they're falling apart. Or before she does, she says Chauncey had dumped me for someone else not long beforehand. We were together for years, and then after one short phone call, it was over. And that's kind of when she feels like everything is gone.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I felt throughout the book that there were perhaps some hidden apologies happening.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Ooh, yes. Yes. I felt that too. Where she was like. Like the girl she was jealous of with L7.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That felt like an apology. Yeah.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And I was like, you don't have to do that, girl. Like, no, it's okay. Be unapologetic. But I get it. I also fucking get it. I always think how brave it is to write a memoir when the people who are in your memoir are still.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Alive a hundred percent.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I couldn't. I literally couldn't. Like, I. I will not be writing. I mean.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And it's hot. It's a lot.

[Janice Schmeeding]

It seems terrifying. Okay. It's a fucking. It's terrifying. And, like, I imagine that, like, there's so much about Chauncey that we are not hearing because.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, but listen. And I'm. I'm. I'm a bitch about it. But don't memoir unless you're ready to memoir. You know what I mean? We can do essays, we can do magazine pieces, we can make music, we can write screenplays. But if you're gonna do a memoir, it's time to tell us what the fuck is up with Chauncey. Because there was just things I needed more of. Well, after this record deal, it's pretty clear. It's pretty clear because she wrote it, obviously, that she has this almost psychotic break and a emotional break. It's clear and it's not clear. Basically, after she loses everything, she just feels like such a failure and she leaves Canada, you know, like, with her tail between her legs. But then. And I loved it. I was like, yes, I love a rock bottom moment because, you know, I know the ending. You're obviously gonna come back and be very successful. But it kind of felt like I didn't really fully understand how she, like, came back from it all, but, like, she starts moving from place to place and making music again, but that she definitively lost it for a moment after this first deal.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah. And it seems like this is kind of where the hidden apologies start to pop up, where she's like. I feel like I. She didn't say this term, but it sounds like she felt like she burned some bridges in that time where, you know, even the people she had collaborated with were kind of, like, turning their backs on her. And, you know, her friends were annoyed with her and she just felt like she was just like, not her best self in this moment. And of course not, you know, we can be forgiven for those, for that. And I also think, like, yeah, I guess it just, it does leave a lot sort of unanswered, but I'm sort of like moved and also left hungry by Nico's sort of humble.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, starving. Starving. Because there's so much she could tell us, so much more. I mean, what she's given is so beautiful, but like, about the artistry and the career and maybe it's selfish because, like, we're in an artistic tone. So I love these parts of the memoirs. I'm like, I need this, you know? But she comes back to life in one specific incident. And when I read this, I said, theme of the podcast. It's the theme of the podcast. She said. Sitting on the couch of the apartment on Maplewood, we watched the Margaret Cho special. I'm the one that I want.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I love that special.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And that book. We read that book on this podcast and it's one of my all time favorites. In it, Cho talks about being told by the network heads that she was too fat to play herself. An All American girl, the TV show based on her own life. We laughed and we cried. Watching Margaret show raging across the stage, I was beginning to recognize some way of inhabitating the world that was big and defiant and incredibly radiant too. Like allowing all the corners and recesses of yourself, even the weird ones, to become a part of your art. It was deeply inspiring. And then she buys Margaret Cho specials. She watches it and she said, when I watched people like Margaret Cho, I'd see ways you could make things and be in the world, but without boasting or apologizing for being who you are. Watching her felt like an invitation. Like, come on up here with us. It's the way I'd feel reading Linda Berry comics or listening to the Cramps. And she said, when I look back on the time I spent in Chicago, there was a shift happening. And I know it because when it came time to fill out my taxes and I had to list my occupation for the first time ever, I wrote down musician. I mean, really, the theme of this podcast is, like, when someone has the courage to share their story, it allows you to accept your percent and the idea of share your shit because it allows others to shine. I feel like that is a direct. Like, this is why we do these episodes 100%.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And if I may also make a connection to the text in my own life. I was also very fucking moved by that special. That Margaret Cho special. It fucking resonated with me so hard, and it's still does to this day. To this day, when I think about some of my favorite standup specials. I'm like, fucking Queens of Comedy Monique and fucking Margaret Cho. Like, the two fat bitches out there saying, like, fuck you, I am fucking big and bold. And do you know what? When I read that part, I was like, oh, my God. I realized. And I forgot to say this at the beginning of the podcast, but Nico Case follows me on Instagram and likes my post.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, wait. Oh, wow, wow, wow. Okay, okay.

[Janice Schmeeding]

And I follow her, and I like her posts too, and I am going to reach out to her. Now that I've read this book, I'm gonna send Nico Case a DM and I'm gonna say, we gotta hang out. I don't know where you live, but I am coming to the horse farm, girl, because we are kindred spirits. You love Margaret Cho. I love Margaret Cho. You hate the Pacific Northwest. I hate the Pacific Northwest. Like, let's fucking bite flea heads off together. We are grubby, grungy, fucking, like, Pacific Northwest girlies.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I love this so much. I feel like I'm at the beginning of a friendship rom com. And I'm gonna need you to circle back and let us all know how it goes.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Because Nico likes a big, bold bitch. You know she does. She likes an oppressed bitch who's unafraid of taking up space. And I needed so much of that myself. Coming up.

[Chelsea Devontez]

If she can do it, I can do it. Because. And you need someone. Like you said, it's like the grungy you I can make. Here's how you make a space for yourself. Because when you see someone else do it, you're like, okay, maybe I can fight as well.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I love that so much. Okay, I'm gonna circle back with you. Ask how that TM went.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Well, and then, I mean, it's interesting. The book is like a song to me. The way it's written, where it's just, like, so stunning and so beautiful and you kind of like. It moves you and waves you, but also you're drawing your own meaning it. And if it is a song, I think it sort of slow fades out.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It's not like, you know, going out on, like, a big.

[Janice Schmeeding]

No, it's not a ballad. It's not like a.

[Chelsea Devontez]

No, it's not about it. She wrote this. This is page 219. And the book ends maybe like 40 pages later. She said, let's crack open this stinky duck egg of rock and roll mythology, shall we? Our time frame is very early 2000s. Our location, some lovables semi comfortable, dog eared, grimy rock club in Midwest. 10:36pm you and your bandmates have been driving yourselves around the United States on tour in an overpacked van, and you are stretched very, very thin. You are deeply, passionately in love with playing music. Picture yourself standing on a filthy stage, facing an audience of about 22 people spread out all over the long room, mostly near the bar, which is framed by Christmas lights. And she just goes on to describe touring, but it's not a specific incident. It's just what life was like. And I don't know if you noticed this, but at the beginning of the book she's talking about how like, I gotta play this show for 22 people. I've gotta get the energy of 22 people up. And then later she's like, There's 22 people there. And I'm like, what is this show that either occurred so often or a singular show that really encapsulated your life where like 22 people watched?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, I bet. It was so much of her shows, I gotta believe, like, you know, once I went to a Brandi Carlisle concert a few years ago. It was probably like five years ago in la.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I feel like we're at the same one. Go ahead.

[Janice Schmeeding]

It wasn't in la. It was in Oregon. It was in.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay. Oh, wow.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, it was in your roots. Troutdale, Oregon. My roots. And she played at this beautiful place called McMiniman's Edgefield. It's like this outdoor amphitheater. It's beautiful. Looks over the Columbia Gorge. And she said, you know, I was busking in Portland when I was in my 20s and nobody fucking gave a shit about me. And here I am, like in my 40s, going on my 50s, you know, and I like, am playing the edge field. These are my roots, you know, And I believe that, okay? As a Lilith girly. I know these bitches are touring in the. Men talk about touring all the fucking time. And how grubby and grimy it is. And they're just like. But you never hear what it's like for a woman, okay? It has to be that times a minute million. Like, it has to be way worse. Making less money, having less resources, putting up with more, getting shortchanged, having fewer audiences. Like, it's just. It must be such a grind touring.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah. It really reminded me of Kathleen Hannah talking about touring in a van. Also Pacific Northwest, and Carrie Brownstein talking about it. And listen, I don't want to blow you away, and I'm prepared to brag, so here it goes. I also toured out of a van for seven. Seven months to two years. How long was it? But this one, much cooler than music. Comedy, improv, comedy, baby.

[Janice Schmeeding]

I've done. I've done a comedy tour myself in a van. Oh.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Out of just a hot, sweaty van with no ac. It's. It's. It's. It's one of those things that. So annoying because when I look back, I look back so fondly, but I remember in the moment being like, get me out of here, please. One day, will I not be eating free nuts out of bowls in the hotel lobby trying to save my $25 per diem for a rainy day? Tell me. I'll be like buying a meal. One girl.

[Janice Schmeeding]

When I tell you last this last weekend, when I did this event in Vegas, it was giving me, like, the flashbacks. It was giving me vibes of touring, and I thought, never again. Okay? I simply am too old at this point. I cannot live this way. It was in a hotel room that had no soap. They didn't provide soap. Not even a bar of hand soap.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, no.

[Janice Schmeeding]

So I was just like, what am I doing?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hotels where you get there and you're like, there's blood on the sheets. And they're like, don't worry, it's a stain.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's the type of motel you stay in on a van tour.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

So she. She did write a lot about different moments of her career, but also not. She skipped a lot. And she kind of ends it being with, like, her horses on her farm. And she writes this. She said, as much as I love them, I am not a horse. Obviously. Hilarious. I am a person who is not quite a woman, not quite a man. I am what life has made me. Someone who wishes to be gentle and is sometimes not. Someone with werewolf tufts who sometimes turn inside out. Perhaps this is true for you, too. A feeling of being a little bit strange, of having some fur and teeth and shadows of the forest flickering across the back of your eyelids. If so, I wish you the exhalation of breath when your heart has synced with that of a horse, a friend, or another species, and that you can relax into a very real place where you are the animal you were thousands of years ago, before people tried to wipe away your instincts with religion and greed and jealousy. And fear. I wish you freedom and the knowledge of being a part of the world's tenderness. And I hope wherever the chance comes, you will take it it and feel your heartbeat along its true original course down the ever changing river of you. I mean, it's just poetry.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Stunning. It's like, oh, that's why you're such an incredible songwriter. Yeah. Okay, Jana, it is time to do the booktool test. It has three questions. Okay, here we go. First question. Was the author vulnerable in the sharing of their truth?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes. Exceptionally, yes. But, yeah, absolutely. She. She gave everything. Second question. Was it entertaining to read?

[Janice Schmeeding]

I found it very entertaining, but I like a dark thing.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I love a dark thing. But your bitch needs structure. She's just so. I'm just so horny for structure. So for me, twas a no. But it was beautiful. Last question. Did reading this book elevate your life in any way?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yes, it did. It elevated my life. I can find my brain winding down Old 80s and 90s Women in punk music.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, I love that. And I love that it brought you closer to her.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes. So I'm also a yes. I. I just loved her hate. Hate has been something that really helped me survive. But then when I was 30, sort of realized it was now hurting me and have been like. Like really trying to put that tool down. But then, as of late, have been picking it back up, you know what?

[Janice Schmeeding]

Why not?

[Chelsea Devontez]

And I'm trying to do it, and I don't know. Can you hold hate in a healthier way? Unsure. Trying to find out. But she wrote this. It's just stunning writing, and it's so hateful. And it's about her mom, and I just want to read it. She said, I wish it was easy to be done with people just because you want to be. To write them a letter and never think about them again. Even now, she still haunts me in my dreams. Always there and then gone. I do not know her. She is a blur of auburn, of hoof, of shivering teeth. She killed herself when I was a kid. And there's nothing I'd like more than to kill her, too. To be done. To have nothing to remember her by but a tall, awkward marker of stones in a field somewhere, picked by her when she was a kid, before I knew her. But I cannot kill her. Not because I'm too good of a person, but because even now, I don't know her well enough to choose the right weapon.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Wow.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Wow. Also, now I'm reading it, I'm like, oh, it's not pure hate. It's wanting to let go of her mom. And she doesn't know how to get her to stop haunting her. And she doesn't know her enough to release it like that.

[Janice Schmeeding]

She grapples in the entire book with the idea of forgiveness, the concept of forgiveness. And my favorite thing. I know.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I love the concept, grappling with forgiveness.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Yeah, it's a tough one. And she kind of sort of. I feel like one of the theses of this memoir is like, you don't have to forgive you. Actually, it's a no for me, dog. I do not forgive you.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It actually. Yeah. Wow. Actually, this makes her my Kathy Griffin. Show me the way.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Janet.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Tell everyone where they can follow you, where to support you, where to find you, all the stuff.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Well, you can follow me on Instagram. That's pretty much my only. I'm on TikTok a little bit. It's at Jana Unplugged is my handle and very Lilith Fair. That's my aim handle. Kept it for life. I have a podcast, Sage based Wisdom. That's wherever you listen to podcasts. We're trying to make it into a kind of a YouTube thing now, but I need to get on this Riverside tip.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, this Riverside thing will help you get on YouTube. Not to say that I have, though, because that requires showering for every recording and I'm just not there yet.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Listen, I've made a point for this episode to be like, in true Nico case fashion, I'm not gonna put any fucking makeup on and I'm not gonna wash my hair.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Wow, hot bride. Cause you look amazing. You really can pull off, like, unkempt, unshowered sex pot.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Oh, thank you.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm gonna kill your Muslim girl.

[Janice Schmeeding]

But, yeah, that's really where you can find me. You can see Rutherford Falls on Peacock if you're into it. Or you can find me on reservation dot vlogs on effects on Hulu.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes. And listen, Sierra Ornelas is a frequent guest of this podcast. So if you've just connected the two, she created Rutherford Falls. So go celebrate these two women. Thank you so much for coming on.

[Janice Schmeeding]

Thank you for having me.

[Chelsea Devontez]

A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks, but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm, where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now, you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code Trash. That's right, Trash. T R A S H. Two audiobooks for the price of one at Libro fm. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.