Nicole Kidman & Keith Urban Split, Bad Bunny Super Bowl Backlash, and The Bachelor's Mormon Wife Twist

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast<br>

Episode: Nicole Kidman & Keith Urban Split, Bad Bunny Super Bowl Backlash, and The Bachelor's Mormon Wife Twist
Date: October 3, 2025
Host: Christina Lopez (filling in for Chelsea Devontez)
Guest: Chris DeRosa

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Main Theme

This lively "cookie jar" episode is a whirlwind through the latest hot topics in celebrity culture and pop media, with deep dives into the Nicole Kidman/Keith Urban divorce, Bad Bunny’s upcoming Super Bowl halftime show, the Bachelor franchise’s Mormon wife twist, a dash of reality TV commentary, and book recommendations. The vibe is candid, sassy, and informed—with Christina and Chris effortlessly blending jokes, serious analysis, and fan commentary. A must for anyone craving sharp, funny takes on celeb mess and memoir news.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nicole Kidman & Keith Urban Split

(02:42-10:25)

• TMZ announced Kidman & Urban’s separation, with Nicole filing for divorce shortly after. Christina suspects the news originated from Keith’s camp (not Nicole’s usual People Magazine route) and reads competing narratives from both sides in the press.
• Both hosts agree that the public’s strong emotional investment is linked to Kidman’s enduring movie star status. They reflect on media tactics and public sympathy.

Notable Quotes:

• "TMZ gives me, like, Keith’s friend. TMZ to me is like gutter. That man that runs TMZ to me is like the second coming of Satan." —Chris (04:32)
• "Nicole Kidman really is, in my opinion, like, the last big movie star." —Chris (07:55)
• "A heartbreak feels good in a place like this." —Christina (04:25), riffing on Kidman’s now-iconic AMC ad.

Emotional Reactions:

• Fans in Patreon chat were deeply affected; some joked, "Can she finally come out of the closet?"—a rumor Chris and Christina quickly, humorously dismiss.
• Discussion about what other celebrity splits would hurt as much—Tom Hanks & Rita Wilson, Freddie Prinze Jr. & Sarah Michelle Gellar are top picks.
  • "If they can't make it work, who can?" —Christina (09:10)

Kidman’s Future:

• Chris and Christina muse playfully on who Nicole should date next, weighing the idea of her "himbo era" or "baby girl moment" with a younger star like Austin Butler or even a Travis Kelsey type.
  • "I want her alone and just, like, living her life...or I want her to have her Travis Kelsey." —Chris (12:08-13:00)

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2. Hilaria Baldwin on Dancing with the Stars & The "It" Factor

(13:06-18:06)

• Hilaria Baldwin’s background in competitive ballroom sparks fairness debates about non-professionals vs. “ringer” contestants.
• Chris views her dance experience as not a serious edge and emphasizes the importance of stories and emotional appeal over pure skill.
• Christina points out that the show isn’t just about technical skills but narrative arcs and likability—referencing similar dynamics on The Voice and American Idol.

Notable Quotes:

• "If you have 'it,' you're not annoying me the whole book." —Chris (18:07), hating Hilaria’s memoir after being forced to endure it.
• "There is that, like, je...that like, you need, like, to be a star. And again, like, Nicole Kidman has that." —Chris (16:26)

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3. Bad Bunny Super Bowl Backlash

(18:28-26:41)

• Bad Bunny will headline the Super Bowl halftime show, stirring “controversy” for performing in Spanish, being anti-ICE, and outspoken against Trump.
• Both hosts highly approve:
  • Chris: NFL is all about ratings ("They will do anything to get eyeballs"), and Bad Bunny is the world’s biggest pop star; politics are secondary to profit for organizers.
  • Christina: Sees this as a poignant moment for Latino visibility, given the history of oppression, and relishes the idea of a Puerto Rican flag covering the halftime stage. She struggles with the tension of cultural celebration vs. the NFL’s problematic politics.

Notable Quotes:

• "He is the most streamed artist in the entire world...they don’t give a fuck about politics...They will do anything to get eyeballs on that screen." —Chris (21:09)
• "There’s a part of me that’s so excited, and then there’s the other part of me that’s like the capitalist scrutiny of it all." —Christina (23:34)
• "If people aren’t excited, it’s 15 minutes of their life that they’ll never get back." —Chris (24:25), minimizing manufactured outrage.

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4. Recap: Charlie Sheen’s Memoir & Hosting Reflections

(27:11-32:04)

• Chris, who hosted the Charlie Sheen memoir episode, discusses the challenge of recapping an unreflective, problematic celebrity memoir with empathy but also "calling out" the subject’s misogyny and lack of introspection.
• Christina feels the accompanying documentary was crucial for context, particularly for appreciating Denise Richards’ parenting and support of Sheen’s children.

Notable Quotes:

• "It’s hard to recap a memoir where they don’t have any introspection." —Chris (29:14)
• "He’s so lucky that there’s so many people in his life that, like, unconditionally love him and will just keep him alive." —Chris (29:33)

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5. [Speed Round] Pop Culture & Media Industry

(32:18-41:17)

• Jimmy Kimmel/TV Industry: Christina and Chris dissect the impact of media consolidation and the decline of traditional late night, noting how podcasts now rival talk shows for celebrity interviews (e.g., Leonardo DiCaprio skipping late night for podcast tours).
• Chris reflects on why independent platforms matter for diverse voices, but warns against relying solely on influencer hot-takes for news ("you shouldn’t be coming to Fixing Famous People for the news").
• Both address the realities of working in corporate vs. independent media—Chris details the rewards of producing TV (Project Runway), including “doing the work right” for marginalized participants.

Notable Quotes:

• "Do I think that everyone needs to have their own platform? No..." —Chris (37:36)
• "Being able to walk away and be like, no one can look me in the eye and say that I lied to them on this show..." —Chris (39:38)

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6. Chelsea Devontez Reports: The Bachelorette Mormon Wife Twist

(41:30-51:00)

• Chelsea drops a special voice note analyzing Taylor Frankie Paul—a Mormon wife influencer "thrashing" her conservative system and now cast as the Bachelorette.
• She treats The Bachelor franchise as an American "cultural clock," arguing this casting choice is both genius and predictive. Taylor’s presence signals shifting norms, "gray areas" in conservative vs. liberal values, and potentially a barometer for upcoming elections and cultural realignment.
• Chelsea expects Taylor to "break out" of yet another system not built for women like her, whether she intends to or not. She predicts this season will be a "canary in the coal mine" for broader societal trends.

Notable Quotes:

• "Taylor Frankie Paul is singlehandedly bringing back the series." —Chelsea (42:53)
• "We used to think culturally a certain way about conservatives...this gray area leads to a lot of overwhelm and confusion." —Chelsea (44:20)
• "She’s not gonna wanna do it. She’s like, no, I love to be a tradwife. And then she’s accidentally gonna break it. And that would make me so happy." —Chelsea (50:24)

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7. Listener/Patreon Q&A: Quickfire Hot Takes

(51:20–59:11)

Wicked Part 2 Trailer & Memoir

• Excitement for the film’s "deeper dive" beyond the Broadway show, anticipation of new songs, and Cynthia Erivo’s upcoming memoir.

Real Housewives of New Jersey

• No confirmation on show’s return; Chris isn’t in on any secrets.

Toronto Adventures

• Chris enjoys exploring the city, working on TV projects, and spending time with Glamorous Trash community members.

Fall Favorites

• Christina: TV: The Girlfriend (Amazon Prime) — a soapy mother-vs-girlfriend thriller. Music: Olivia Dean.
• Chris: TV: The Diplomat (Netflix) — drama, intrigue, and quippy dialogue. Also: catching up on Housewives and fueled by anticipation for Wicked Part 2.

Life Hacks

• Chris’s winning AMC beverage combo: "Coke Zero, 80%—then Mr. Pibb Zero to top it off…It’s gonna change your life." (58:56)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• "Love is dead." (04:32; listener’s text about Kidman/Urban split)
• "Heartbreak feels good in a place like this." (04:25, 58:02) — Nicole Kidman’s AMC ad pervades the episode, symbolizing both camp value and genuine heartbreak.
• On “It” Factor: "If you have 'it,' you’re not annoying me through the whole book." —Chris (18:07)
• On Bad Bunny: "This is for my people, my culture, and our history." —Bad Bunny (Show note cited by Christina at 19:21)
• On Taylor Frankie Paul: "She can’t exist in the systems she was put into...She keeps breaking out of them, because none of us are meant to fit in these tiny boxes." —Chelsea (43:18)
• On late night: "Celebrities have 90 million podcasts they can go on. They don’t need to go on The Tonight Show." —Chris (35:49)
• On media independence: "Being able to walk away and say...I did everything in plain sight in front of them." —Chris (39:38)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:42 — Nicole Kidman & Keith Urban split analysis
• 07:19 — Why people care: the myth of the last movie star
• 13:06 — Hilaria Baldwin on DWTS & what makes a “star”
• 18:28 — Bad Bunny Super Bowl controversy & significance
• 27:11 — Charlie Sheen memoir recap & ethics of storytelling
• 32:18 — Jimmy Kimmel, the collapse of late night, and why independent media matters
• 41:30 — Chelsea’s deep dive: Bachelorette’s Mormon Wife twist
• 51:20 — Quick fires: Wicked, RHONJ, Toronto, fall recs

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Final Thoughts

A comprehensive, personality-packed pop culture breakdown, this episode not only recaps headline stories but interrogates their deeper meanings—from feminist critique and media economics to the symbolism of a Puerto Rican halftime show. With sharp humor, industry insider wisdom, and genuine fan engagement, it’s both a time capsule and an insightful lens for reading celebrity news now.

Next Up: The podcast will cover the memoir of Mormon Wife star Macy Neely, with Jo Feldman guest hosting (51:00).

Join the Community: Listener thoughts and reactions are encouraged via Patreon and the book club, with a shoutout to the show’s ever-active community (“cookies”).

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For more info, links to articles discussed, and to join the book club or Patreon, check the show notes.

Transcript

[Chris DeRosa]

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[Chelsea Devontes]

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[Chris DeRosa]

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[Christina Lopez]

And Hot Ones menu is the definition of fire flavor. We've got the sizzling Sriracha dippers. 10 out of 10. Time to take it up a notch with the smoking Rojo chicken sandwich. Mm, that's so hot, but it's so good. Now onto the daring dab ghost wings. Yep, there it is. I love the spice level attempt. The Popeyes and Hot Ones menu in stores. Our hottest collaboration yet. Love that chicken from Popeyes. Limited time in participating. US Restaurants welcome to Glamorous Trash, a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs, and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host, Christina Lopez, the producer of this podcast, sitting in for Chelsea Devontes. And this is our cookie jar episode where we sort of root around the pop culture trash bin and the cookie comments to talk about everything we love in the glamorous trash universe. Today we're covering Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban's breakup, the bad bunny halftime show, Hilaria Baldwin on Dancing with the Stars, the Jimmy Kimmel debacle, and we have a special message from Chelsea Devantes herself about Mormon wife, star Taylor, Frankie Paul, and the Bachelorette. Now let's dive in. Our guest is the Charlie Sheen to my Emilio Estevez, It's Chris derosa. You recently heard Chris as the guest host from our episode on the Book of Sheen, Charlie Sheen's memoir, and you know him as our resident monster memoir correspondent. In addition to his duties here at Glamorous Trash, Chris is also a reality TV producer. He recently worked on the season of Project Runway and he is the co host of the podcast Fixing Famous People. Chris, welcome back to the podcast.

[Chris DeRosa]

Thank you for having me again.

[Christina Lopez]

Oh, it's a delight you're not hosting this time around, so you can relax a little bit. And we're going to get into some tidbits from the Charlie Sheen episode and some reactions that some cookies had. But first, let's dive into some of our hot topics. Are you ready?

[Chris DeRosa]

Yes, I'm ready.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay. So on Monday, it was announced in tmz, of all places, that Nicole Kidman and her husband, singer Keith Urban were separated. And then today, the day of the recording, Tuesday, Nicole has officially filed for divorce. Devastating.

[Chris DeRosa]

Devastating.

[Christina Lopez]

The two were wed in June 2006, and they have two daughters now. I was looking at this initial announcement of the separation, and this seemed to me like it was coming from Keith's camp. One, because I feel like Nicole would have done it through People magazine. And two, perhaps I think they were trying to establish a timeline with the detail that the couple had been living apart since the beginning of summer. To me, that screens that if it comes out over the next couple of days that he was spotted with someone, there's a clear point of separation so that he has an alibi for it being okay. Since then, there have been competing stories in People magazine, with one article claiming that Nicole was the one who was, quote, fighting to save their marriage and that she didn't want this. And then a different People article came out citing sources close to Keith and saying that, quote, their lives were moving in different directions. And once he quietly set up his own place, it felt like the writing was on the wall and that, quote, people close to Keith felt like their split was inevitable. And then also right before the divorce filing announcement, it was also reported by TMZ that Nicole's inner circle believed that Keith had already moved on with another woman. Chris, I need to know your thoughts.

[Chris DeRosa]

TMZ smells like him. It's not like our girl Nicole, like, CEO of AMC movie theaters is not.

[Christina Lopez]

A heartbreak feels good in a place like this.

[Chris DeRosa]

A heartbreak does feel good. And it feels bad for me in a place like this because this is devastating.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes.

[Chris DeRosa]

And one of my friends texted me and said, love is dead when I had to agree. Yeah, TMZ gives me, like, Keith's friend. That's a lose. Like, TMZ to me is like gutter. Like, that man that runs TMZ to me is like the second coming of Satan. Like, I find him to be slimy gutter trash. And so the fact that this is in TMZ first means that, like, one of it, yes, she would be going to people. People.com. you are absolutely correct. And also, of course, like, she wants the marriage to work. And he's like, no, you're, like, too famous and, like, no one cares about me anymore. And you're, like, the hero of Hollywood. Like, she put out an article. What was it? She put out an article. Lol. She was, like, quoted. Yes. She did not put out an article.

[Christina Lopez]

She popped on one of her straight hair wigs and she went to her keyboard and Typed out an article.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah. She did an interview that would turn into 90 million articles. They were like, why do you do all of these projects? Like, you can do one movie a year and be completely fine for the rest of your life. Like, why are you in everything? And she said, every time I say yes to a project, like, hundreds of people are employed. And I like, like that and want people to work and I want the movie and TV industry to survive.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes. She's also made a very big initiative to work with, I think, female directors and like, backing certain, like, female centered projects. And so she has a real commitment to the industry, to the studio, for sure. Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

And so it's like she's like doing the Lord's work. And then Keith Urban's like an Australian country singer who, like, if you threatened my life and were like, what is one song that he has? I could not tell you.

[Christina Lopez]

I could. Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Chris DeRosa]

And like, I know country music enough. You know what I mean? Especially that time, like, like, I couldn't tell you one song. I mean, it's just. It's really sad.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay, now, in our shared notes for this episode that we had when we were trying to come up with topics, you typed in Keith Urban, AKA Meg Ryan. Can you please elaborate on that?

[Chris DeRosa]

Yes. When we were recapping, it was, I'm sure the Oscars, or it might have been the Emmys since she's now been doing tv, but I'm pretty sure it was the Oscars. Dominic was like, for one split second, whenever they got on the red carpet, I thought that Nicole Kidman had shown up with Meg Ryan, saying that Keith Urban and Meg Ryan had looked the same and have the same hair.

[Christina Lopez]

Well, one constant in this marriage has been that haircut.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yes. That terrible flat ironed, highlighted haircut. And so he did something different with his hair. And so we've been calling him Meg Ryan on our podcast for a long time.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah, that makes sense. So the news of their divorce hit the Patreon chat. And when I asked for topics talk about on the cookie jar, this was the one that was suggested the most, I'm sure. And I'm kind of shocked to see how emotionally invested people were in them as a couple. Maybe I wasn't paying attention, but I wonder how much of that is more so just us wanting to root for Nicole Kidman to be happy.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yes. And many people were like, can she finally come out of the closet? Is what a lot of people were saying.

[Christina Lopez]

Really?

[Chris DeRosa]

I was like, I know. I didn't really. I Mean, I don't think that, but I feel like a lot of people.

[Christina Lopez]

Were saying that I don't pick up that vibe from her, but.

[Chris DeRosa]

No, me either. But, like, people were saying that we don't have, like, movie stars anymore.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes.

[Chris DeRosa]

Like, we have our few. I would say, like, Timothee Chalamet and Zendaya are two that, like, are Gen Z movie stars. But other than that, when you talk like a movie star, Sydney Sweeney isn't coming to mind. You know what I'm saying? Like. Like, movie star. It's Nicole Kidman.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

She's kind of the last one that we have that's not doing, like, the Reese Witherspoon of it all. That's being like. And then I'll have a book club, and then I'll do blank, blank, blank, and then I'll be on the morning show, and then I'll be. You know what I mean? Nicole Kidman really is, in my opinion, like, the last big movie star. And so for her marriage to crumble, that's hard.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. Yeah, I could totally see that.

[Chris DeRosa]

You know what I'm saying? Like, does that make sense?

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. I mean, it's a constant that you measure your life by almost. Right. It's like, I'm like, I feel that way about Grey's Anatomy. Like, if Grey's Anatomy was to go off the air, I don't know, like.

[Chris DeRosa]

What would we do? Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

And I don't even watch it, but it's just like.

[Chris DeRosa]

No, but, like, it's. That's. It's. Yeah, that's like the first domino to fall. You know what I mean?

[Christina Lopez]

Exactly.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

And so that got me thinking. Like, a couple people mentioned other celebrity couples that they would kind of crumble under if they split. And someone mentioned Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell. I'm wondering, Chris, who is that for you? Because I have a couple, but I'd be curious to hear yours.

[Chris DeRosa]

I feel like if Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson split, that would be really bad. Like, I feel like we would feel that would hurt us. That would hurt us, Right?

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

I think just because I feel like they're another one of these couples that's like, we've been with them our whole lives.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes. I'll tell you mine. Can I share mine?

[Chris DeRosa]

Yes.

[Christina Lopez]

Freddie Prince Jr. And Sarah Michelle Geller.

[Chris DeRosa]

My. Oh, my God.

[Christina Lopez]

They cannot make it work.

[Chelsea Devontes]

I don't know.

[Christina Lopez]

Who can?

[Chris DeRosa]

Who can? God. They're still together.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah, they're still together. Don't jinx them. Okay. I hope they say no.

[Chris DeRosa]

No, they'll be together, but they're flying low.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

You know what I'm saying? They're not like, in the press. They're not really, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, Nicole Kidman's in, like, 60 projects a year.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

Like, like, like truly, like, she. Like the fact that they made like, another season of nine Perfect Strangers when that show was literally the one of the worst things I've ever watched. Like, it was crazy Big Little Lies on hbo.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes.

[Chris DeRosa]

Revolution. Like, that brought us back to, like, the Sunday night HBO show. We all watched it and then we gathered around the water cooler Monday morning to talk about it.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes.

[Chris DeRosa]

And there's nothing I like more. Not one thing. And the fact that they did it on their own.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

That. To lunch with that author and was like, please let me and Reese WHOVERSPOON do this TV show. And that did something, you know what I mean? That moved the needle into like, oh, look, even we can do this and circumvent the, like, studio system and, like, have a project that we want to do and it'll be really good.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah, definitely.

[Chris DeRosa]

That makes sense.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Chris DeRosa]

I'm blabbing on now, but I find her such a champion of that. So many things.

[Christina Lopez]

If you had to pick someone for her to date next.

[Chris DeRosa]

Oh, God.

[Christina Lopez]

Is there anyone who comes top of mind? Okay, we're gonna take a quick break.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Right now, and we'll be right back.

[Chris DeRosa]

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[Chelsea Devontes]

Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation.

[Christina Lopez]

Is there anyone who comes top of mind?

[Chris DeRosa]

I want to say. I don't. I want her alone and just, like, living her life, like, you know what I mean? In the sense of, like, just being still and, like, having peace, you know what I mean? Like, I want that for her. I want her to be with, like, a Channing Tatum, someone big, to just, like, bang her out, you know what I mean? Like, in a great way. Like, if she's not, like, I want her.

[Christina Lopez]

You want her to go a little younger and have a little. Yeah, yeah, her baby girl moment.

[Chris DeRosa]

Not that young, but someone like, early 40s slash late 30s. Like an Austin, even though I don't find him that attractive at all. Like an Austin Butler type.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes. Okay, okay.

[Chris DeRosa]

Or like someone who's, like, coming up, like, not Timothy Chalamet, but like, someone like, up and coming who's, like, getting buzzed. Like, if someone that wasn't Jeremy strong was Jeremy. Do you understand? I find him so annoying.

[Christina Lopez]

So you want, like, a thespian, someone who can kind of.

[Chris DeRosa]

And. But, like, then I don't at the same time, then I want her to have her Travis Kelsey. That's like a big dumb lug.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah, I kinda want her to have, like, a himbo moment. Yeah, like a sweet himbo.

[Chris DeRosa]

And then she's, like, having the time of her life.

[Christina Lopez]

I wish that for her. Chris. Speaking of celebrity spouses, we have to talk about one half of your favorite celebrity couple. We'll talk about Hilaria Baldwin.

[Chris DeRosa]

Oh, God in heaven. But God give me strength. God give me strength.

[Christina Lopez]

If you don't know, Hilaria is currently competing on Dancing with the Stars alongside Jennifer Affleck from the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, the influencer and podcast host Alex Earle, and former Boy Meets World star Danielle Fischl. Now, Chris, during the very first dance of the show Hilarious, stepped out to let's Get Loud by Jennifer Lopez. And I dmed you that she basically summoned you.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah. Like, this is like a direct call out to you. The first Christa Rosa, the individual.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes.

[Chris DeRosa]

And that is true.

[Christina Lopez]

Did you end up watching her? Did you end up watching it?

[Chris DeRosa]

I. I truly didn't. And I really was like, I'm not watching anything on ABC in the wake of the Jimmy Kimmel situation. And so I was like, I'm not going to Watch this. Plus, I was. I've been busy working, so I truly have not had any time. But, like, I've seen clips of, like, her dancing. She knows what she's doing.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes. A few people have made the argument that having her on the show is somewhat unfair because she actually participated in competitive ballroom dancing while she was at nyu. She was part of their ballroom dancing team. Now, I've watched the show for a long time. Full disclosure, I used to cover it for the local ABC affiliate here in Los Angeles. And we also have a cookie named Lauren who recaps the show on Patreon Live as it airs on the East Coast. So be sure to check her out. There have been so many contestants who have had dancing in their backgrounds that I think there's more to the competition than who can execute the dance routines the best. Now, Chris, as the reality show producer, what are your thoughts here?

[Chris DeRosa]

I mean, like, she's not a professional dancer now, right? Like, that was, like, 30 years ago.

[Christina Lopez]

So it's like, she's. She's around our age, so it was, like, maybe closer to 15, 20 years ago.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, yeah. But still, oh, my God, she is, like, our age. I mean, she's not a professional dancer, so, like, I don't find it that unfair. Also, didn't she do really bad recently? I think she's, like, in the bottom. It's not like she's, like, winning the show.

[Christina Lopez]

I think I wanted to get more in your, like, producer brain of, like, it's more about the story that they're telling, how much they grow over time in terms of what they learn and, like, how execute the dances. And I think there's also, like, you know, a personality element to it. There can be people who are technically really great dancers, but if people don't feel. And you see this with, like, American Idol, if people don't feel emotionally connected to your story and, like, the best.

[Chris DeRosa]

Singer might not win.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. You'll have someone who, like, sang with Prince or something like that, and they'll lose to Philip Phillips or someone like that.

[Chris DeRosa]

Well, that's. No, like, on the Voice. I remember, like, I watched the Voice, like, really early on, and the one. Her name was like. It was like. I would literally was about to say Judith Light. Her name was, like, Judith something. Judith Light. And she was like. She had been singing with Michael Jackson, and she was like, basically that. 20ft from stardom.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes, yes, yes. She was in the documentary 20ft from Stardom. That documentary is amazing. And pointing out this exact thing where it's like, someone can have all the talent in the world and not make it despite putting all their effort, all their energy. There's just, like, an element of it that they're missing or that the world just doesn't line up for them.

[Chris DeRosa]

They have to have it. Like. And I don't mean Stephen King's it.

[Christina Lopez]

I mean Bill Skarsgard in the corner. Yeah. Tim Burton in In the Sewer. Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

There is that, like, je. That, like, you need, like, to be a star. And again, like, Nicole Kidman has that. You know what I mean? Like, when you. When she shows up on a red carpet, everyone stops and is like, there's a movie star right there. When Zendaya has that, too. When Zendaya walks into a room, it's like everyone grinds to a halt to watch Zendaya, including the other celebrities.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

You know what I mean? When you have it that brings you so far and that. She was on the Voice, like, early. This Judith. Judith Light, her name was.

[Christina Lopez]

She showed them who's the boss.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, Judith. Judith Hill is her name. Judith Hill. Her voice was incredible. Like, yeah, I was like, I can't believe that you're on this show and that you have to be on the show. And she, like, got somewhat famous after it. But, like, I mean, no one on the Voice has ever, like, become a real celebrity. It was that thing where you're like, this person is so great. But, like, that doesn't really matter. Half of it is, like, the vote from America. And then so many people in the Voice, it was like, here's these, like, two brothers that played the guitar, and they, like, can't even sing. And everyone loves them because it's, like, country and, like, they, like, make it so far and sometimes win because of that. Versus our Jennifer Hudson's of the world. All this to say, are they even competing for anything on Dancing with the Stars, or is it simply just to say that they've won Criss derosa?

[Christina Lopez]

It is for the Len Goodman mirror ball trophy. Okay. Do not denigrate that beautiful piece of.

[Chris DeRosa]

Okay, so nothing. Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

And Bradley, bragging rights. Okay. They made it further than Corey Feldman.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah. Like, that's fine. That it's unfair because they're not winning anything. Like, I don't actually care. You know what I'm saying?

[Christina Lopez]

Do you think Hilaria has an it factor?

[Chris DeRosa]

No, I think she thinks that she has an it factor. And we're gonna find out in Dancing with the Starts that she absolutely does not have an it factor.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay, that's fair.

[Chris DeRosa]

Because I had to sit through you and Chelsea made me sit through her audiobook. And it was grading and very annoying. I was so annoyed with her, the whole book. And so it's like, if you have it, you're not annoying me. The whole book.

[Christina Lopez]

Do you think Alec coached her for the voiceover or that's not.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, I don't think he even knew that she was writing a book.

[Christina Lopez]

Well, one thing is for certain. I know for sure that Hilarious gonna get another opportunity to flex her Spanish comprehension skills when Bad Bunny takes the stage at the super bowl halftime show. Already this has been dubbed a controversial pick because Bad Bunny is outwardly anti ice. He's critiqued Donald Trump. All of his music is exclusively in Spanish. And this is also coming off the heels of last year's performer, Kendrick Lamar. A lot of people thought that this year was going to be the year that Taylor Swift would perform.

[Chris DeRosa]

No, she's never doing it now.

[Christina Lopez]

This isn't Benito's first go around at the super bowl halftime show. He was actually a guest performer during the 2020 halftime show that was performed by Jennifer Lopez and Shakira. In a statement, Bad Bunny said, what I'm feeling goes beyond myself. It's for those who came before me and ran countless yards so I could come in and score a touchdown. This is for my people, my culture, and our history. So, Chris, what do you think? How familiar are you with Bad Bunny's music? What are your thoughts?

[Chris DeRosa]

You're gonna roll your eyes at me, but it's okay. There's a movie called Okja, and it's Bong Joon Ho's movie before Parasite.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes.

[Chris DeRosa]

So I found it so good for one scene in particular is at the end of the Long story short. They, like, put these very large, like, pig like, beings on the earth, and then they give them to all these different people so that, like, they can be normalized into society. And then eventually they are like, oh, we're going to grow all of these big pigs because they yield to so much meat. So then, like, world hunger can be over. But the one girl that got this big pig that grew up with it now loves it. And then they're going to, like, slaughter the pig. And she's like, I don't want my pig Okja to die. And so she, like, goes on this journey to get Okja back. It's so good. And then the final scene, Tilda Swinton is like the evil overlord, like, Jeff Bezos type pig slaughterer. And I promise I'm going somewhere with this and the girl is like, basically it's like, give me my pig back. Like, I want my pig. Like, you gave that pig to me and like, it's my pet and like, it's not gonna get killed. And Total's like, no, I own this pig and you signed a contract and I can do whatever I want. And the girl literally then reaches into her bag and pulls out a huge gold brick and goes, I will buy the pig from you. And she goes, okay. And then she throws her the br. And then she gets her pig and then they leave the slaughterhouse. And the thing that you learn in that scene is that no one fudgeing cares about anything when it comes to money. He is the most streamed artist in the entire world and he is like one of the most famous people on the planet right now. And his music taps into so many markets outside of just the American market that's already watching the super bowl regardless, right? And so they don't give a fuck about politics about that. And I'm not going to try. I'm not here to be like, oh, good for the NFL. Fuck the NFL. For all the things that they like. Fuck the NFL. I'm not giving them one red scent of like, good on you situation here.

[Christina Lopez]

Right?

[Chris DeRosa]

They will do anything to get eyeballs on that screen. What did they do in the last couple of years? Put Taylor Swift, every single time she blinked her eye, blades down and up. They then cut to her. Instead of showing you the actual football game going on, they will do anything to get us, people that don't watch football to watch the Super Bowl. And so that's why they did this. Period. Done. I'm sorry, I yield the floor.

[Christina Lopez]

I think that was really great. That's a reminder that capitalism exists everywhere and everything. I have deep feelings about this, obviously. Like I've talked about this on the podcast before. My grandparents were born in Puerto Rico, all four of them. And my parents were born in New York and I was born in New York. So that makes me New Yorkan. And I feel very. Hell yeah, by the way. And so I feel very close to him and his music. There's a part of me that's really, really excited because based on what he did in the Amazon streaming concert, it was a full on representation of Puerto Rican culture, our music, the diversity of Latino music. And it's reflected in the statement that he's making and it is speaking to something that's going on at the time. You know, there are a lot of Latino communities that are under attack right now. So the idea that someone is basically probably going to perform in exclusively Spanish, you know, in a time where that's under attack as well. I do have mixed feelings about the NFL of it all. You know, it's ties to the military industrial complex and like, no, everything you're doing is.

[Chris DeRosa]

Everything you're saying is absolutely correct. I'm just not crediting any of that to the NFL.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes, no, of course. And so I think there is part of me that's excited at the thought of him celebrating Puerto Rican culture in front of a crowd. Historically, the United States has tried to stop us from flying our flag. They made it illegal for a while to fly the Puerto Rican flag in Puerto Rico. And I could see him filling the whole stage with the Puerto Rican flag, as you know. And that itself is an act of rebellion. There's a part of me that's so excited, and then there's the other part of me that's like the capitalist scrutinization of it all. And I think we can hold those two tensions also.

[Chris DeRosa]

What's he going to do? Say, not do the Super Bowl? Like, of course he's going to do the super. Like he should do the Super Bowl.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah, like, yeah, I'm really excited. I think it's going to be super, super creative. And I think that he has something to say, even if it is using this kind of like, stage that's provided by a corrupt organization to do it. And so, like, that's how we exist in capitalism right now. I don't know.

[Chris DeRosa]

Lady Gaga went up and did the super bowl and I watched every single second of it. You know, I mean, I watch this. I do watch the super bowl every year.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. So like in the. Beyon has performed twice. She played off of Black militant themes, you know, for a platform that tried to distance itself for a long time from anything related to social justice. I'm talking about, like everything Colin Kaepernick was trying to accomplish. The fact that this space is now existing for artists who claim to represent those exact ideals, I just think it's fascinating.

[Chris DeRosa]

He's also gonna. It's like he's a great performer. His songs are fun.

[Christina Lopez]

Amazing show.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, we're all Jon Hamm in that. When he's in that, like weird out bucket hat outfit where he's dancing around on stage. Like, that's gonna be all.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes.

[Chris DeRosa]

Like he's. It's like fun. I mean, rumored, right before they said it was him, it was rumored that Adele was gonna perform. And Dominic was like, do we really need it, like. Like, what will we. I was like, I'll love it. But, like, will everyone love Adele performing the Super Bowl? This is, like, fun. The music is fun. I'm sure he'll probably have, like, a guest or two come out and sing a song. You know what I mean? Like, or have people with him, like, and so that I think I just feel like. I mean, I'm excited. And also, if people aren't excited, it's four minutes of their life that they'll never get back. And then that's way less than many movies that I watch that I never get the time.

[Christina Lopez]

It's 15 minutes. It's 15 minutes long.

[Chris DeRosa]

Oh, it's 15.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes. I think because, like, Shakira and JLO both got, like, six minutes or something like that. And.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

Like, three minutes of performing.

[Chris DeRosa]

My God, bring us back to then. Do you remember that?

[Christina Lopez]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chris DeRosa]

Will JLO come out?

[Christina Lopez]

Well, JLo. So JLo actually talked about this in her memoir, where she wanted to make a political statement during her super bowl performance as well. And so she had kids in cages in her performance, and that was during the Trump administration where that was, like, a big controversy, was how they were treating these immigrant kids that they were detaining as well.

[Chris DeRosa]

So I don't remember.

[Christina Lopez]

I know.

[Chris DeRosa]

I remember that. I. I remember that. I don't remember, like, them being on the stage with J.R. yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

What? I think one of them, I think maybe was Max or Emmy. One of them was actually in the cage on stage. It was. It was a very quick moment, and they didn't put a super fine point in it. But she calls attention to it in her book where she's like, I wanted to make a statement. Yeah, it was fascinating. All that is to say is that I'm super, super, super excited for Benito to perform at the super bowl, even if it comes with all the baggage that is the NFL.

[Chris DeRosa]

Anyone that performs. There's controversy in the last person that went up there and performed, and there wasn't, like, a bunch of, like, people going back and forth about it.

[Christina Lopez]

I feel like right after Janet Jackson, they got somebody super. Like, maybe it was the Rolling Stones or somebody.

[Chris DeRosa]

It was literally the whole. And that we were children.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

So it's like, think of that. You had to go that far back. You know what I mean? And I'm not trying to negate any of the. I'm not trying to, like, negate anything, but it's like, it doesn't matter. No matter who this was going to be. There was going to be some kind of upheaval about it all.

[Christina Lopez]

That is to say, Chris, will you be tuning in and what will you be drinking?

[Chris DeRosa]

I'll be. I'll be watching. Every year at the Super Bowl, I'm like, I do know how football works. And I'm like, oh, no, that was offsides. Oh, no, that was. No, I was, like, incomplete, Pat. Like, I grew up in Pittsburgh, like, during the Steelers. The Steelers being the best team in the entire.

[Christina Lopez]

Absorbed it through osmosis.

[Chris DeRosa]

History of football. And so I was like, oh. Like, I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to football, but I always surprise myself. Every year. I will be watching the super bowl, and I will be watching the performance period, and I'll probably be drinking tequila.

[Christina Lopez]

I love it. Well, speaking of someone I know who's going to be watching the super bowl because he's a sports freak. Let's talk about your Charlie Sheen episode. Give people a little insight on that episode and what it was like to read his book, watch the documentary, and. Yeah. What was it like to. To, you know, be in Chelsea's bangs for a little bit and host the show?

[Chris DeRosa]

Okay. I felt so much pressure to make sure that it was good, and I was like, oh, my God. I really just, like, it can't be bad. It needs to be good. I have. If I'm guest hosting it, I need to make sure that it's, like, in my voice. But then it's also what the podcast is and not what I want the podcast to be. And I need to sneak in my own little comedy here and there because the book is very sad. The whole thing, like, yeah, we had.

[Christina Lopez]

A whole conversation about, like, how to responsibly tackle his substance use and, like.

[Chris DeRosa]

What words to say and what words not to say and, like, how to make sure that we're telling the story properly. Or like. Like, yeah, like, we did a lot of that, which was very hard because there were. The whole book is about him using substances, and then a lot of his, like, humor in the book is, like, disgusting and misogynistic. So you're like, ew, So I can't even be like. And then he says this, like, ha, ha. I'm like, I need. I'm like, no, that's not funny. It's terrifying. And so it was. I wanted to make sure to have a balance. The book itself is very boring. I said it in the episode, but it's like, there was part of it where it was, like, for me and you to read to be like, oh, my God, like, I want to hear the gossip about, like. Like, Denise and blah, blah, blah, and this not. But then half. It was kind of like. And then I was, like, doing drugs. He didn't glorify it, really. But then he also wasn't like. And this was eroding every relationship that I had in my life when I would just go out and get high off. There was no contemplation. I've said this now 6 million times. There was no, like, inward. Nothing was going inward. It was just telling you what happened. Whereas, like, in the normal memoir, it's like, feelings. This. Why did I feel this way? Here's why. I thought I felt this way at the time and then realized later in therapy that I felt actually this way at the time. You know what I mean? There's so much of that. Normally, I brought away my own things from it, but I'm like. A lot of it was like, oh, you really, like, have blinders on of, like, what this did to other people or can't admit it publicly. It's hard to recap a memoir where they don't have any introspection.

[Christina Lopez]

That's actually why I'm so glad there was a documentary. Right. So that we could have those other perspectives, especially in that second half with the, like, tiger blood era and, like, also gaining a new appreciation. At least I did for Denise Richards and her step. Stepping up and helping to raise his sons and make sandwiches for him and his.

[Chris DeRosa]

Whoever was at his house that day. Bop down the stairs in what God only knows what state of undress with him. He's so lucky that there's so many people in his life that, like, unconditionally love him and will just keep him alive.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

Because, like, so many other celebrities, like Amy Winehouse, for example, her dad was like, a piece of garbage.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

And was, like, leeching off of her and pushing her further into fame and, like, all the things that were causing her to, like, not be able to be okay. And then we saw how that. You know what I mean? Like, it didn't end well for her. Like, there's so many celebrities that are, like, on an island by themselves, and even, like, their quote, unquote, support systems are monsters. And then meanwhile, he has, like, Denise Richards who's, like, gonna drop her whole life to raise his kids that aren't even hers.

[Christina Lopez]

Well, yeah. I mean, it's that commitment to family that she made for her daughters.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

You know.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

And that belief that their brothers deserve love and care. The Same way that they did. And I hope that all those kids are okay. You got a lot of love in the cookie comments for your episode.

[Chris DeRosa]

Okay. Thank God.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah, you did. Including one person who was glad that you called out Charlie Sheen for throwing Heidi Flice to the wolves.

[Chris DeRosa]

Hell, yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. You insisted that I keep. I wasn't gonna cut it, but you were like, keep it.

[Chris DeRosa]

I was like, the only thing you are not allowed. You can cut, literally my name out of the podcast, but you have to keep me calling him a stool pigeon and a rat, which. P.S. stool pigeon isn't even the right term because a stool pigeon is like a, like, government informant. Like, a stool pigeon is someone who's, like, the bait that you go, then go to get, and then they get you. He's not even really a stool pigeon, but it was just too funny, so I had to call him a stool.

[Christina Lopez]

So you think he should have done the time? Do you agree with Heidi that they wouldn't have gone too hard?

[Chris DeRosa]

No. What he should have done is not paid her in travelers checks. None of this would have happened. You know what I mean? He would have not been implicated at all, and he would have went scotch free. And so the only. That's the problem is that he didn't keep his side of the street clean.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes.

[Chris DeRosa]

And when you're doing things that are illegal, you got to do that.

[Christina Lopez]

And then there was another cookie who said that, quote, it made me so sad at the end of the documentary when Charlie is happy healed. And I was like, no, you contributed to this toxic culture, and you haven't atoned for that. It's a wild choice to portray him as having a happy ending and an engaged dad when only two of his five kids are involved in the documentary. End quote. How much do you think the book and the documentary was just him trying to rehabilitate his image and sort of get back to acting.

[Chris DeRosa]

Oh, a whole. The whole thing.

[Christina Lopez]

A lot of people were very interested in hearing his memoir. I mean, there were, like, those legendary Hollywood stories with, like, you know, I know. I didn't know Slash and Mirror Sovino were gonna pop up in this.

[Chris DeRosa]

You know, I can't with them.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay, so let's do some speed rounding through some of the hot, hot topics that the cookies asked us. So people asked us to talk about Jimmy Kimmel. I was wondering if it was old news by now, but I think it's still fair to kind of, like, is.

[Chris DeRosa]

But it's not. Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. So I. I do want to link in the show notes to These two Vanity Fair pieces that are very in depth. They talk to a series of people who work in late night and they share their opinions about whether or not the format is dying and the overarching sort of economic things that studios are doing to gain profit in this new digital media where they have to compete with YouTube and Netflix and TikTok in order to hold audience attention. And so during the Disney boycott, I was kind of talking to the cookies on Patreon about, you know, the FCC threatening to pull ABC's license because of what Jimmy Kimmel said during his monologue. And when also these two companies, Nextar and Sinclair, who own about 25% of the stations that air Kimmel, sort of also pressuring Disney to not air the show. And they've since backed off and are now airing Jimmy Kimmel now.

[Chris DeRosa]

And wasn't this because Next Star is like trying to buy something else or something? Some. There's some money dealing that they desperately want to be blessed by Trump for. And so this was a way for them to get attention and be like, like, look at us being a good little soldier so that you can say yes to the yes.

[Christina Lopez]

Which is also kind of the same thing that's been happening with 60 Minutes, CBS, CBS's parent company, Paramount, and Skydance, which was in talks and has now acquired Paramount and Skydance. It's rumored that they're looking to buy Warner Brothers. Skydance is owned by David Ellison, who is the son of Larry Ellison. And Larry was recently announced as part of the group of investors that will be part of a new company that will take over TikTok's operations in the US and both Larry and David are sort of right leaning billionaires. And so it's like kind of this bigger point I was trying to make about how there's sort of a consolidation of media happening and people are sort of gaming and leveraging the current system that we have to force outspoken comedians, media organizations to sort of play ball with Donald Trump. And so I think one, the two articles that I'm linking to in Vanny Fair kind of speak to the larger economic machine and what's going on in Hollywood right now. But I think, and people also asked for us to talk about this. Both of us doing independent things as opposed to exploring creativity in corporate spaces, which you kind of still do both.

[Chris DeRosa]

Which I do do. I actually do both. So yeah, get you a girl who does both. Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes. So I would say, like, what do you think is the importance of having your own platform independent? And what would you say to people who want to support independent creators.

[Chris DeRosa]

Well, I think to go back. Sorry, not to not answer this question, but to go back to, like, you saying that is late night dead? Like, do we need late night shows? They do need to really, like, get with the times. Because the thing that I feel that, like, for so long they were a vehicle that you had a host that you trusted that you watched all the time and you thought was funny. But then the other big part of it was that it gave celebrities not only a place to plug new things, but it gave us access to seeing celebrities not acting. But, like, now they have 90 million podcasts that are on video that, like, they can go on Call her daddy and they don't need to go on the Tonight Show.

[Christina Lopez]

There was just a whole article about how Leonardo DiCaprio for his recent movie was doing podcasts and was bypassing traditional media outlets.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, because, like, they don't need to do it. And it's like, I feel that the Tonight show, like, Jimmy Fallon does a good job of doing, like, the wheel of musical impressions. And like, he does those, like, a lot of games with the guests that are like, funny and stupid that, like, we want you and I want to see on, like, like Instagram reels that we laugh at and share with our friends. And that I think is a very good application of, like, what to do to keep these shows alive. But, like, if you're just doing like David Letterman, like what David Letterman did back in the day, it's like, that's not gonna work.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

Well, does that make sense?

[Christina Lopez]

Like, yeah, it does make sense. But I will say to that point, the views that are being lost in traditional media that are sort of being siphoned to these social clips don't pay the same, like, advertising dollar impressions that TV does. And so even if they successfully are.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Able to monetize the social channels, have.

[Christina Lopez]

A digital social channels, the monetization is not equitable to what we would have gotten on television. And so, like, you can't rely on the TV funding this anymore. And the social element of it doesn't produce enough to be able to fund it. So, like, where do we go from here now?

[Chris DeRosa]

It's hard. It is hard because, like, when are you sitting down to, like, watch a late night show ever? Like, I'm never, I'm never doing it.

[Christina Lopez]

And I think we know this from even our own experimentation with social for podcasts. Like, social for podcasts can blow up, but that doesn't mean that every single person who sees your reel is going to convert to clicking the link in your profile to go check out your episode.

[Chris DeRosa]

Ever. One time, maybe. Yeah, ever, once.

[Christina Lopez]

So then you have to build a platform and an audience there. Even though they're not going to ultimately watch, some of the times they don't. Ever listen to the podcast.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, never listen to the podcast. Okay, here's the thing is, like, these billionaires can buy all these companies and then be like, we want to only have, like, Tomi Lahren come on every show.

[Christina Lopez]

And, like, that's a name I haven't heard in years.

[Chris DeRosa]

I know, I know. It's so funny. She thought, really thought she was going to be something, didn't she? You know what I mean? If they're going to, like, do all this stuff where it's like, you can't say anything, people won't watch the shows like that anymore. I think that it's really important for people to have their own platforms. Do I think that everyone needs to have their own platform? No. Doing independent things like this, yes, is great, but, like, like, you shouldn't be coming to fixing famous people for the news. You know, you can laugh and have my opinion of any of the things I just talked about here, but, like, that shouldn't supersede someone who's, like, been studying it for 20 years. Does that make sense?

[Christina Lopez]

I think it does make sense, but I also get how traditional systems can keep even people with experience from having, like, you know, mainstream access. But I'm really curious from your point of view, because you do both, like, what is beneficial for staying in the corporate system. Right. Versus the freedoms that you have as an independent creator.

[Chris DeRosa]

I like making television. It's very fun. When something comes out, it's big. Like, Project Runway was all over social media. You could not escape it if you were, like, remotely in any kind of algorithm adjacent to anything. Project Runway, like, it was all over your feed. And that was really fucking cool to see. To be like, oh, this show that I made is now, like, on the subway ad. And there's many a person that works in our industry that aren't nice people, and so to walk away from it. And the other day, one of the designers reposted one of my pictures that I put up and was like, this was the producer that made sure that all my interviews went smoothly and English was not their first language. And I sat there with them and was like, okay, what are you trying to say? Let's talk about it. Okay, now we're gonna build a sentence that is gonna convey that. Does that make Sense to you. And then does this sentence that you're saying make sense to you? Okay, it does. Okay, let's. And like, there's many other producers that would have not done that and been like, well, like, what do you want to say? Like, you know, and immediately got frustrated with it and, like, to be able to walk away from that and be like, that person that wouldn't have been understood on this show was understood very well because I was here and was, like, taking the time to understand them.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

And not that I'm patting, like, I don't need any extra praise for that, but, like, I feel good about doing that. Whereas, like, there's so many other, like, TV shows that people are like, the producers are so manipulative, and they do blah, blah, blah, and they do da da da, and they do moma and this and that and blah, blah. And so it's like being able to, like, walk away and be like, no one can look me in the eye and say that I lied to them on this show or that I did something behind their back and, like, fuck them over. Like, I did everything in plain sight in front of them.

[Christina Lopez]

That was the thing that kept me in corporate media for a long time, too, was hoping to be the person in the room that, like, changed the traditional trajectory of how something would have been covered. But I think I just also needed a break from being a person who exists in several margins and despite having as many years of experience or sometimes even more experience than the people who were in charge of me, still being denied, you know, validity of that experience and authority behind that experience. So I. I get, like, also being the change in the room, but sometimes the room changes you. Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

And also, too, I think, like, the money is good and I'm good at it. And so it's like, that's great. And also I go in, I shoot the show, and then I walk away and don't have to worry about it. Again, if you're, like, at a 9 to 5 corporate job in media, like, there's so many times when it's terrible and it's like, I'm one of those. I come in and have a great time. Like, I'm in Toronto right now shooting a television show and, like, I'm leaving tomorrow. And I was in. We were here for like a month and a half. We shot the show and now, like, my episodes are over, so I'm out of here. And so it's like, that's been really fun. But I, like, do what I need to do and I Don't have to like deal with the mess that's left over, if that makes any sense in the sense of like, like all the receipts and the this. You know what I mean? I get to go and do my job and then I'm off to the next thing. And that's still really fun.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

And I like doing it.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah, that's good. And speaking of something that's really fun, here's a word from Chelsea about the upcoming season of the Bachelorette with Mormon wife star Taylor Frankie Paul.

[Chelsea Devontes]

This is literally, this is the first thing I'm saying today. I just woke up and I remembered I need to talk to Christina in the cookie jar. We wrapped set Last night at 2 in the morning and we have an all nighter ahead. So I am wrecked. But I obviously have to come in and share my Taylor Frankie Paul Bachelorette thoughts. Okay, so here's my take. As you know, I consider the Bachelor and Bachelorette TV show a clock on America, letting us know what cultural time it is. And I have correctly predicted multiple elections by watching this show and seeing the fan base react because I think it's just a better gauge of where America is at now. In the past three years, that gauge has broken because the show has fallen apart and for just so many reasons. It would be a whole other podcast and no one's really watching anymore like they were in other shows came in and kind of took that viewing space. But the reason the Bachelor is like such a place where I feel like you can get a temperature on America is because the fan base is so centralized and so strong and it's so sweeping. That used to be because it was on abc, obviously it still is, but people like watch it streaming on Hulu.

[Chris DeRosa]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Okay, Taylor Frankie Paul being named to the Bachelorette one. Genius. Genius. Not genius because we're all in awe of it. Genius because for the. The series, this brings back the series that was. I truly thought it was going to be time of death soon. I thought they were going to have to call it pretty quickly. Taylor Frankie Paul is single handedly bringing back the series. I bet she is getting so much money. It was so genius of Hulu and Disney to work together to make this crossover happen for them now for us, for America. You know, I have a software soft spot in my heart for these Mormon wives, even as they inflict insanity upon themselves and others. But I am enamored with this decision when I look at the bigger picture. So like, yes, it'll be dramatic. Yes, she was meant for the show, yes. It's going to be horrifying and toxic, blah, blah, blah, blah. The thing I'm really looking at and the reason why I'm so drawn to watching Taylor Frankie Paul is because she is a woman who has so much just whatever her personality is, like her passion, her emotions, just whoever she is, she cannot exist in the systems she was put into and the systems she is actively trying to uphold. She keeps breaking them or breaking out of them because she's not actually. And none of us are meant to fit in these tiny boxes of these systems. She was put in like. Like a religious system, the Mormon system, a very patriarchal culture of being, you know, an actual housewife and the men work and you don't work and chastity and being quiet and being polite and sort of these cultural systems in Utah, but also we see them, you know, all over the country. Taylor Frankie Paul cannot exist in these systems, even though she currently believes in them. And so we get this crazy mess, like, she starts. Starts soft swinging to still be a good Mormon, but also, like, get her on because she's like in her early 20s and she's a mom, but she also doesn't want to uphold these dusty ideas of what being a mom is. She wants to go out and go against the grain and party and date. She's still very young. She hasn't figured herself out. She wants to love her family, even though her family is being so shitty and misogynistic to her all the time. She has all of her horrible stuff with Dakota. I think this is such a fascinating season to watch because she is being put into yet another system of the Bachelorette, America's sweetheart. They act a certain way. The sex suites, definitely not what it's called. You know, the overnights. Sort of like this whole franchise was also built on this idea of women being a certain way, pageanty, dressing a certain way, vying for one man, acting a certain way. She is now going to that system that, again, she was raised on. I'm sure she always wanted to be the Bachelorette. Now she's going to be. And knowing Taylor Frankie Paul, she's going to thrash and break it and break out of it. Not because she wants to, but because it's a system not meant for women to exist in. I love this. And I think depending on how the fan base reacts to this, it's going to be such a canary in the coal mine. I almost said gold mine. Hey, maybe. I think depending on how the fan base reacts to her season, we will know so much more about what's ahead. Because we keep feeling, and I know we keep feeling that there's this is like we're at a breaking point in society. Like, something has to shift back, shift back to maybe as we knew it, maybe Obama era, right. Obama era after that started shifting towards this Trumpian era. And I think a lot of the gray areas in society. Wow, I have so much to say. And it's so early in the morning. A lot of the gray areas we feel right now are what's leading to, like, overwhelm and confusion. And by gray areas, I mean, you know, we used to think culturally a certain way about conservatives, and conservatives have certain ideas about marriage and dating and manners and free speech, and they would do things a certain way, and, you know, leftists would do things a certain way. And over the past few years, we've seen a lot of that get muddied and gray, obviously in really terrible ways or, you know, unclear ways. So it's like, you know, Trump is elected president and he's has, like, multiple wives and no manners and has, like, a foul mouth and all these things that we weren't thinking of as conservative for so many years. Same when you look at, like, leftists, certain things that we associated with them flipped, you know, to the other side. And I think this gray area of, like, wait, what's culturally going on leads to a lot of overwhelm. And someone like Taylor Frankie Paul would have never been the Bachelorette 10 years ago. Not only a single mom, she, like, threw chairs at her former partner's head. She has emotional freakouts. All these things that obviously you can look at and be like, this is horrible. But you could also look at it from a lens of, like, a woman who acted like that would have never previously been on tv. And I'm not saying, like, all women should act like that. I'm just saying. Interesting. Like, we've opened up this lens of what is possible, obviously, only for a certain type of woman, you know, acting a certain type of way, looking a certain type of way. However, I think as she goes into this system of the Bachelorette, I think it's going to show us which way the cookie's gonna crumble coming forward coming out of this season. Okay, that was a lot of heady talk. I'm also just excited for the drama. She was meant for this show also. Just have to say, Clayton, the Bachelor, who literally had sex with every contestant and then left the show to go chase after the one contestant, Susie, who wouldn't sleep with him. Like literally the most horrible bachelor who ever lived. He was pulled to do a show on Netflix. I don't know how that deal happened. He was on Netflix's show Perfect Match, which I love that show. And he was gold. I mean, he was a horrible person, but he was incredible on that show because he literally convinced a girl from the Bachelorette, Rachel to get back together with him for a third time and then broke up with her in 12 hours. As Katie, a cookie, who you've heard on this podcast a lot, said that single handedly added hours back to her life and mine as well. I think there are certain crossovers that are happening from these networks. It's also, oh, I could have a whole Hollywood discussion. I won't. Anyways, so I think there's some really genius casting going on. Obviously creating toxic content. If that's not your type of content, do not watch. But that Clayton crossover was great. I think this Taylor Frankie Paul crossover is gonna be great. Filming this movie is so intense. I've been updating people on Patreon if you want to know what I've been doing. But I've got 10 more days left. We're on the home stretch and I've been so out of it that going on Patreon today is how I realized there is a new love is blind. Denver. Oh my God, Denver. You guys have heard me speak about Denver. I grew up in Colorado for some time. Colorado is the most nuanced little knot of a state where it has three different core groups of people coming together and it twists into something really sometimes beautiful, sometimes horrifying. It's like a conservative meets liberal station in the world. Without even turning the season on. I know, it's gonna be so messed up. I can't wait. And also, thank you to all the Patreon chats or I wouldn't know what the hell was going on. Survivor. New Survivor Dancer with stars. Oh my God, I've missed so much. Anyways, I've got 10 days left. I will be back soon and I need to hear the Taylor Frankie Paul thoughts in the comments. I know there's a lot of thoughts about it, but my high level thinking is that how this season goes is gonna show us what the next four years of our lives politically are gonna look like. And I have hope because I think she's gonna break yet another system which, I mean, she's not gonna wanna do it. She's like, no, I love to be a trad wife. And then she's accidentally gonna break it. And that would make me so happy. Okay, bye.

[Christina Lopez]

I love hearing from Chelsea. I know we all miss her. And just so people know, we will be covering the memoir of Mormon wife star Macy Neely later this month with Joe Feldman as the guest host. Now, Chris, it's time to get into some of the things that you wanted to talk about, like the Wicked for Good trailer. So Cynthia Erivo is actually coming out with a book in November, and we might cover it on the podcast.

[Chris DeRosa]

You should.

[Christina Lopez]

But, yeah, let's get into. What are your thoughts around the Wicked Part 2 movie?

[Chris DeRosa]

Will I survive it?

[Christina Lopez]

I don't know.

[Chris DeRosa]

It looks so good.

[Christina Lopez]

So have you seen the Broadway show? Do you know what happens?

[Chris DeRosa]

Yes, I know everything. I know everything that happens. I'm so excited. I actually don't love the second half of the musical because it's, like, nowhere near as good as the first half. But what I'm gonna say to you is that in a movie format, I feel that the whole thing will be so good. Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

I think making it its own entity so that it could be fleshed out a little bit more. Because it does. When you're watching it in the. The. In the, like, stage version, it does feel like they're speed running to resolve plot lines and also tie in as many references to the wizard of Oz as possible.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, I'm excited. And there's two original songs. I have heard, like, 10 seconds of each song. Because in the sneak peek that they showed us on Project Runway, which I just found out on Zoom with you the other day, that, like, they didn't show that sneak peek in the thing. I think they're going to eventually show it because it seemed like it was for release. It wasn't just for us. I heard a little bit of the songs and they sound so good.

[Christina Lopez]

I am also looking forward to Wicked Part 2, mostly just to see those differences between the stage version, to hear those new songs, and to hear Cynthia and Ariana perform the existing songs that are on the soundtrack.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, they're Arkansas. Like, thank Goodness is a great song. When I was listening to the trailer came out and you hear a little bit of it, I was thinking of the part whenever it's like, you know, she's singing and then she's like, there's a kind of a sort of costume.

[Christina Lopez]

Oh, my God. We're getting vocals. You're serving vocals.

[Chris DeRosa]

And she, like, when she. There's a stillness in the part of the song that she's gonna do so good with. And it's just. I can't wait.

[Christina Lopez]

Chris. The cookies had a couple questions for you once they heard that you were gonna do this cookie jar with me. And so I want to run a couple past you. Is Real Housewives of New Jersey coming back?

[Chris DeRosa]

I don't know. And that's a real answer. I would love for it to come back. I would love to work on it again. I really don't know everything, you know, I know there was, like, smatterings that, like, they were doing test filming with people and stuff, but there's been no official word of, like, we're gonna start filming. Are you available? Like, that's when I know that it's coming back, is when they start checking dates with me. And no one has done that yet. And there is no. There's no word like. And that's legitimately real. I'm not saying that. And it's really. Oh, no. We're shooting in two months. Like, we don't know anything. Wonder if when we get closer to BravoCon, if there might be an announcement. It's in November. I will be there, but I'm wondering if maybe they'll announce something at BravoCon.

[Christina Lopez]

Interesting.

[Chris DeRosa]

But again, I, like, find out when everyone else does. Yeah, they think that, like, we, like, they, like, Bravo calls us every day and, like, tells us everything. I'm like, no.

[Christina Lopez]

Like, yeah, yeah. You're not sitting and hanging out with Andy at lunch, getting the download.

[Chris DeRosa]

I'm sure not. Yeah.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay. What about your adventures in Toronto? How did you enjoy being there?

[Chris DeRosa]

Fellow co host slash guest of the podcast, Katie Rosen, lives here, and we've been having the most fun. The Buffalo medium, Erin Bagwell, who also was on an episode of Glamorous Trash back in the day and who's an OG Cookie. She came to visit us with another One of our OGs, Lauren, who's been in the book club forever. They came last weekend, and we had so much fun. I've been working really hard, so a lot of the week has been, you know, we're exhausted. But the weekends have been so fun. And I love Toronto. It's a fun city. The food is good. I'm like, oh, this is a city where, like, the people have a good vibe. There's good art here. There's been really cool stuff. Like, there's good shopping. Like, we've just been, like, having a great time, and I've been enjoying the city. It's really.

[Christina Lopez]

If you're a sugar cookie member. Every month we have a book club, a Zoom Book Club. Chris was the guest for the Zoom Book Club this past Month because Chelsea couldn't make it. She's off shooting her film. And so one of the things that we talked about at that book club was some of our fall favorites. And I shared a favorite TV show and album that are kind of getting me through this right now. I would love to hear from you, Chris, what your fall favorites are. I'll go first. One of the things that I actually absolutely devoured was the Girlfriend on Amazon prime, and it's with Robin Wright and Olivia Cook, who was in House of the Dragon. And if you enjoy films like the Hand that Rocks the Cradle or Single White Female, A Basic Instinct where, like, someone kind of has a little bit of a screw loose and they go against each other. And it's like in this particular show, Robin Wright Penn plays the mother. Olivia Cook plays the girlfriend, and they're both competing for the attention of the main son slash boyfriend.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, I want to watch this. And I normally don't watch anything on Amazon, but, like, they. That sounds great.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes. And there it's cutthroat. They try to one up each other. It's like six episodes. It's soapy. There's fighting in water. They're throwing each other around in a pool of water. It's incredible. I had so much fun watching it. I definitely recommend it. And then in the music world, I've also been listening to Olivia Dean's new album, so I'll just put that out there. Chris, what are you loving right now? What are your fall favorites?

[Chris DeRosa]

I've been watching the Diplomat on Netflix with Keri Russell.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay, cool. That came out a little while ago, but yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah, there's a third season coming out now. And so I know that's not new, but it got nominated for Emmys, and I was like, is this really show really that good? And then I watched it and I was like, oh, it is really good. And it's kind of like, it's interesting because you really have to pay attention because it's about, like, like, global politics and it's all these, like, diplomatic things. And you're like, wait, what? I'm like, Keri Russell isn't just like her character in the Americans again, like, like, basically. But, like, she's like a. She's like the ambassador to the UK for the United States. And, like, there's like, stuff going on and, like, people are doing calls and you're like, having fun. But then it's also, like, about her and her husband. So her husband is Rufus Seawell, who is the villain in A Knight's Tale and is so hot, and he's a kind of a loser and kind of just, like, always fucks everything up for her, but used to be the ambassador, and then she's, like, having a love connection with the Foreign Secretary for the uk whose name is David Gayassi, who is also so hot. And, like, there's just very fun cameos. And, like, there's parts of it that are funny, and they do have this kind of, like, Sorkin y. Like, not Sorkin y, but, like, there's a lot of back and forth of words that are quippy. But then it's also, like, there is drama, and then there is also, like, action, and it's really good. And so I'm loving that.

[Christina Lopez]

I love that.

[Chris DeRosa]

Yeah. And I'm excited for the third season. And then what else am I. I mean, literally nothing. I'm watching Catching up on Housewives, so. Because I haven't been watching TV at all. But, I mean, I'm just living off of the fumes of the Wicked for Good trailer is really what I'm doing, which I love that part. Is that not enough? Is that not enough?

[Christina Lopez]

That's enough. That's enough. That's enough. Yes. I can't wait to be back in the theaters. Just say heartbreak feels good in a place like this. This.

[Chris DeRosa]

You know, Hassan bought me for my birthday, like, two years ago, the official AMC merch shirt that says, heartbreak feels good in a place like this.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes. They need to bring the full ad back to, like, help support Nicole.

[Chris DeRosa]

Okay, I know. And they, like, made it into, like, a. A smaller one. I'm like, I don't want that one. I want the normal one.

[Christina Lopez]

Yes, yes. Give me the full ad, please. I would have that over the Coke ad that they do with a couple. Yeah, yeah.

[Chris DeRosa]

Have her drink a Coke in the thing, and then we're good.

[Christina Lopez]

Like, over there.

[Chris DeRosa]

Like, do you want a Coke? It's like, no, get me out of here. I'm already. I already bought one. Like, I already bought a Coke before I came in here. You're. This ad is not doing anything for me because I already am holding a Coca Cola.

[Christina Lopez]

You did it. You won.

[Chris DeRosa]

To be fair, here's my fall favorite. It's okay. When you do the Coke freestyle machine, a lot of ice. Then you do Coke Zero.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay.

[Chris DeRosa]

And then you do. And you do that up, like, 80% of the way, and then the last 20% is.

[Christina Lopez]

Is.

[Chris DeRosa]

It's their version of Dr. Pepper, but it's called Mr. Pibb Zero because I can't. That show. I don't want diabetes. And they but like do do 20 of Dr. Mr. Pibb zero.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay.

[Chris DeRosa]

And that it's gonna change your whole life.

[Christina Lopez]

Okay. I love that. Chris, thank you for all these life life lessons. It was so wonderful to talk to you. I'm so excited. Wig it for good. And also for Benito's super bowl halftime show.

[Chris DeRosa]

I know. I can't wait. It's gonna be fun.

[Christina Lopez]

Yeah. Everyone, please sound off in the comments and we'll see you here next month when Chelsea is back. And Chris, thank you for all your help. You've been doing a wonderful job and.

[Chris DeRosa]

Absolutely thank you for having me.

[Chelsea Devontes]

A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Montcat, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics. And every plate we will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier.

[Christina Lopez]

You can join.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Leave a comment, chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing.

[Chris DeRosa]

Over there, Limu Emu and Doug. Here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty. Liberty Savings Ferry unwritten by Liberty Mutual insurance company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.