Parker Posey’s Memoir You're on an Airplane (with Katie Rich)

Summary

Glamorous Trash: Parker Posey’s Memoir “You’re on an Airplane” (with Katie Rich)

Podcast: Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Host: Maria Randazzo (guest host for Chelsea Devontez)
Guest: Katie Rich
Air Date: August 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Glamorous Trash is a book club-style discussion focusing on Parker Posey’s memoir “You’re on an Airplane.” While host Chelsea Devontez is away on a filmmaking project, comedian and writer Maria Randazzo fills in, joined by Emmy-nominated comedy writer and performer Katie Rich. They offer a deep dive into Posey’s uniquely performative, non-traditional memoir, exploring its contradictions, honesty, and how it navigates the complexities of fame, artistry, family, and the evolving entertainment industry.

Content warning: Discussion includes references to allegations against Louis C.K. and Woody Allen.

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Main Themes

• The experimental, performative structure of Parker Posey’s memoir
• Contradictions and complexities in Posey’s perspective (especially regarding the entertainment industry and problematic men)
• The unique listening experience of the audiobook—why performance transforms Posey’s tone
• Posey’s relationships, especially with influential women (notably, Nora Ephron and her mother)
• How acting, creativity, insecurity, and personal authenticity intersect
• Navigating Hollywood as a woman, aging, and resisting industry norms

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Key Insights & Discussion Points

The Experience of “You’re on an Airplane”: Performance vs. Text

[05:50] Katie Rich:

• When read, some lines can feel “insufferable,” but listening to Posey’s performance brings empathy and charm.
• Audiobook is recommended: “There’s a whole audio world to it that you definitely won’t get if you just read it. There’s sound effects, music, and the way she tells jokes.” (07:03)

“If anyone read this book, she seems insufferable. But when you hear her perform it, when you hear her do it, you never, ever, ever want it to end.” —Katie Rich [05:50]

[07:26]

• Posey’s “bug” (her scattered, ADHD-like personality) becomes a feature in the immersive audio experience.
• The memoir as a monologue or stream of consciousness: “It’s pretty stream of consciousness a lot of the time.” —Maria Randazzo [08:23]

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Contradictions and Complexity

[09:44]

• Posey advocates for better, less sexualized female roles, yet sometimes expresses support for problematic people—this tension recurs in the book.

“She was full of contradictions…In defense of a particular female character, and then elsewhere, supporting someone you wouldn’t expect. The book is full of these contradictions.” —Maria Randazzo [08:44]

[09:51]

• Katie sees this as authentic: “That is how we are…if you talk to someone for seven hours there would be so much contradiction.”

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Hollywood Realities: Insecurity, Financial Pressure, and Vulnerability

[11:46]

• Posey is candid about career insecurity: "I think every job is my last… I'm not great at being a movie star. It's either too boring or too much work. I've had too much therapy."
• Katie is comforted by Posey’s honesty, reflecting on imposter syndrome and perpetual anxiety in creative work.
• Posey describes a nervous breakdown after being replaced on Broadway due to “bankable” names. Being honest about the pain of loss and rejection resonated with both hosts.

“If Parker Posey has to [prove herself], what hope do any of us have?” —Katie Rich [12:17]

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Women Supporting Women: Nora Ephron as “Movie Mother”

[20:02–22:16]

• Posey’s mentor relationship with Nora Ephron is a highlight:

"Dear Parker, I love watching your life from the middle distance. No one has had a career like yours, and although I understand it makes for moments that have to feel less than secure, it also means you have so many things you would never have done if Your life were more conventional. Love your mother." —Nora Ephron (Parker Posey’s memoir) [20:26]

• Provides a model for intergenerational support between women artists.
• Discussion of “mother figures” beyond biological family, and the boldness of claiming that role.

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Family Dynamics: Birth, Grandmothers, Upbringing

[24:45–34:45]

• Posey’s Southern family history—she is a twin, born prematurely, with first encounter shaped by the expectation of her not surviving.

“Your little boy is fine, but your girl. We need a name for the death certificate.” —Doctor at Posey’s birth [25:08]

• Family as characters—her mom put fake eyelashes on her as a preemie baby (“I didn’t know what else to do with you.”).
• Grandmothers: Both endearing and dysfunctional, providing love, complexity, and a foundation for Posey’s actor-observer instinct.
• Recipes and food memories enhance the depiction of each family member and Southern heritage.

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Career Retrospective: Indie Films, Auditions, and Community

[35:11–43:21]

• Highlights the camaraderie and resourcefulness of the 1990s indie film scene (especially on Party Girl): borrowing clothes, making do, mutual support.
• Comparison to early days in comedy and improv—creating for love, not profit.
• Candid tales of failed auditions (Meet the Parents, Speed), turning down major blockbusters (e.g., Bourne Identity, Anaconda) because of personal discomfort (“I didn’t want to be in wet clothes”).

“If you read it, you’re like, this woman is insane. But you hear her say it, you’re like, that’s incredible.” —Katie Rich (on Posey’s honesty about turning down roles) [50:35]

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Navigating Hollywood’s Problematic Men: Louis C.K. & Woody Allen

Louis C.K. [54:53–63:39]

• The Louis C.K. chapter is “written in code,” dense with subtext and metaphor.
• Posey describes a creative/working friendship that ends abruptly, reflecting on the insularity and self-mythologizing tendencies of powerful men.

"The more an artist can create, though, the more solipsistic they can become." —Parker Posey’s memoir [58:50]

• Hosts agree Posey’s approach is indirect, perhaps intentionally so, to avoid making her memoir about problematic men rather than her own story.

Woody Allen [65:01–71:08]

• Posey recounts starring in Allen’s Irrational Man, her struggles on set, admiration for Allen, and the toxic environment.
• Maria is uncomfortable with Posey’s self-deprecating comparisons to Emma Stone (“I would clomp to lunch like an old mare...”). Katie finds it “calming” in its authenticity, though both dislike the adulation of Allen.
• Noted “code” in Posey’s writing—she alludes to broader industry perversion without explicit condemnation.

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Relationships with Women (Marsha), Non-conventional Living, and Not Addressing Marriage or Motherhood

[74:18–75:57]

• Posey’s unconventional living arrangement with Marsha, an older woman, evoked “Grey Gardens, but without the sadness."
• Posey doesn’t defend or explain not being married or having children, which hosts find refreshingly progressive.

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Joyful, Supportive Work: Christopher Guest Films

[76:15–79:56]

• Posey’s experience on Christopher Guest’s movies is described as “joyful,” collaborative, and loving.
• They emphasize funny, loving characters over “trying to be funny.”

"When you're playing a character…never try to be funny. Try to be loved." —Katie Rich [79:44]

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Mothers, Grief, and Connection

[80:19–85:42]

• The chapter on Posey’s mother is deeply moving—memories are described with cinematic nostalgia (“Chicago’s ‘Does Anyone Really Know What Time It Is?’ plays on the radio...I just closed the book and I cried.” [82:24]).
• Both hosts reflect on their own mothers’ deaths; discuss how our loved ones remain within us.
• Chex Mix “Trash” recipe deemed the perfect “glamorous trash” metaphor.

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Vulnerability, Authenticity, and Aging

[93:37–97:25]

• The “Booktool Test” confirms the memoir is vulnerable, entertaining, and elevating.
• Posey’s acceptance of her quirks and mishaps (losing phones, being late, “Amelia Bedelia”-style living) serves as inspiration to embrace one’s authentic, weirdo self.
• “No one cares. No one is paying attention to you.” (recurring thesis)
• Hosts agree this realization is both sobering and freeing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If Parker Posey has to do that [prove herself], what hope do any of us have?” —Katie Rich [12:17]
• “Dear Parker, I love watching your life from the middle distance… Love, your mother.” —Nora Ephron (via Parker Posey) [20:26]
• “She made a bug of her personality the feature of it… It works because that’s how conversations on airplanes are.” —Katie Rich [06:26]
• “She passed on Girl, Interrupted, she passed on Speed… But when I heard her say it, I was like, I love her so much, and I want to make a little nest for her and feed her snacks and tell her she’s wonderful.” —Katie Rich [19:26]
• “No, you’re so much better than [Woody Allen]. Please, I don’t want this little thing to bother you.” —Katie Rich [70:54]
• “Never try to be funny. Try to be loved.” —Katie Rich [79:44]
• “She’s talking to herself the whole time [when she talks about her dog].” —Katie Rich [72:49]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:55: Ads / Show intro / Chelsea’s brief update (skip)
• 01:55–04:49: Maria welcomes Katie Rich, introduces Parker Posey’s memoir
• 05:09–08:39: The audiobook versus text experience; performative nature
• 11:15–15:27: Parker’s actor insecurities, early career setbacks, vulnerability
• 20:02–22:16: Nora Ephron—supportive mentor letters and mother-daughter dynamics
• 24:45–34:45: Family, childhood, grandmothers, and food/recipe interludes
• 35:11–43:21: Indie film scene; community over commerce
• 50:05–51:38: Audition stories, pew-pew gun noises on Blade Trinity
• 54:53–63:39: The Louis C.K. chapter—“written in code” about abusers in power
• 65:01–71:08: Woody Allen chapters—contradictions, self-image, and discomfort
• 74:18–75:57: Non-traditional living, women’s lives beyond marriage and kids
• 76:15–79:56: Christopher Guest movies—comedy, love, and ensemble work
• 80:19–85:42: Chapter about Posey’s mother—loss, memories, nostalgia
• 93:37–97:25: Booktool Test; summary of takeaways on vulnerability and inspiration

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Final Impressions

• Parker Posey’s memoir is best experienced in audio form, where her quirks translate into genuine charm.
• The book is rich with contradictions—celebratory and critical, honest and obtuse—a reflection of real life and a woman’s journey through fame.
• Relationships with influential women (esp. Nora Ephron) and family are central, tender threads.
• Posey’s avoidance of industry norms (blockbusters, marriage, motherhood) is framed neither as defiant nor apologetic, just authentic.
• Complex chapters about problematic men are written densely, with layered metaphors and introspection but lack direct confrontation.
• The memoir inspires listeners/readers to embrace vulnerability, live authentically, and care less about external validation.

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Recommendation:
Listen to the audiobook for the full performance! Skip or skim the pottery and yoga chapters if those don’t resonate—but don’t miss the family stories, the Nora Ephron letters, and the Christopher Guest segments.

For More:
See show notes for related episode links (Liz Phair’s memoir, Matthew McConaughey), as well as recipes featured in the book.

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Transcript

[Maria Randazzo]

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[Katie Rich]

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[Maria Randazzo]

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[Katie Rich]

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[Maria Randazzo]

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[Katie Rich]

Fast fast. Free delivery.

[Chelsea Devontes]

It's on prime hi, it's me, your host, Chelsea. I am actually away from the podcast for about eight weeks as I am on set right now directing my first feature film which I also wrote. If you want to know more about the film and you're into stuff like we made a tier on Patreon where I'm going to send out updates just for people who want to follow along. Also on Patreon and Apple subscriptions is where you will continue to get your bonus episodes from me every month. We have recorded a bunch so fear not, we have Denise Richards, Heart, the Band, so much stuff coming your way. And in the meantime on the regular feed we have an absolutely stacked set of episodes. Our producer Christina Lopez has truly gone above and beyond. We have books, articles, Wild Rides with some very special guest hosts who you will already know from listening to this podcast. I think the best part about a book club is that you get to hear from a ton of different voices as you form your own opinion. So I am excited to open up the book club hosting and bring in some new voices. And please, please please let us know what you think in the comments. And now please enjoy.

[Maria Randazzo]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash, a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memo and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your guest host, Maria Randazzo, filling in for Chelsea Devontes. I'm a comedian, TV writer, actress and co host of the List Podcast. You also might know me from the Tina Knowles and Griffin Dunn episodes. I guested on Glamorous Trash. Chelsea was my head writer on the Problem with Jon Stewart, but I've known her for a real long time from our Chicago comedy days. I'm also a moderator of Chelsea and Jordan Moncada's creative writing program behind the Bangs. Shout out Shout out BTB Members, Today we are Book Clubbing youg're on an Airplane, A self mythologizing memoir by actor Parker posey, published in July 2018. You know Parker from her indie hit Party Girl, her work in the Christopher guest comedies Waiting for Guffman, Best in Show and A Mighty Winner. Or from her recent role as a wealthy southern prescription pill popping housewife Victoria Ratliff on the most recent season of the White Lotus. I really liked this book, but some things made me want to throw the book and other things made me want to hug it. Sometimes I was like, yes, Parker. And sometimes I was like, parker, no. I'm sorry you guys, I had to do it. It was right there. It was right there. And before we dive in, please note we're going to discuss allegations involving Louis C.K. and Woody Allen. So always take care when listening and let's dive in.

[Katie Rich]

Why would you encourage her to move to a monastery?

[Maria Randazzo]

What's next? You ready to shave her head and.

[Katie Rich]

Start banging a bongo in Times Square? I think it'd be a good experience for her to live for a while.

[Maria Randazzo]

Without all the creature comforts that she's used to.

[Katie Rich]

I don't want her thinking she'll be just fine if she's poor. She needs to fear poverty, Tim, like.

[Maria Randazzo]

Everyone else we know.

[Katie Rich]

That way she'll make good decisions.

[Maria Randazzo]

My guest today is Katie Rich. You might remember Katie from our episode on Liz Phair's memoir. We'll link it in the show notes. Katie is an Emmy nominated and Peabody award winning writer, actor and producer. She's written on Saturday Night Live. She also served as a co showrunner of the hit HBO Max animated show Harley Quinn. Katie has written for and consulted on many award shows including the Emmys, the Academy Awards and the Golden Globes. Which is one of the many reasons she is the perfect glamorous trash guest and the exact person I want to talk to about this book. Katie is also a comedy hero of mine. I'd watch her perform in Chicago and just be totally blown away all the time. Katie, welcome to the podcast.

[Katie Rich]

Hi. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you, Maria. And again, I hope everyone can hear through the mic how beautiful you look and how wonderful.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh my gosh, that's so kind. And right back at you. Right back at you. Okay, so tell me, yes, overall feelings on the Parker Posey book.

[Katie Rich]

Okay, so I'm wearing my Parker Posey shirt.

[Maria Randazzo]

Wait, tell me about this shirt.

[Katie Rich]

Yes, yes, it's all, it's all these cartoons of Parker. I mean again, audio medium. But you can go to Vera meet. It's a one size fits all, which I don't know. Cause it doesn't really fit me. But that's okay. It fits me from here up. And it just has little cartoons of Parker in her various roles and quotes and things like that. I have to say, I asked Chelsea about this book a while ago because I was listening to it and I was like, what do you think about it? She's like, I don't know. And so preparing for this. I read it and you know how there's people that you know that online, they're insufferable. Like, you see their posts and you're like, I hate this. But then when you hang out with them, you're like, you're great.

[Maria Randazzo]

100%.

[Katie Rich]

That's how I was like, if anyone read this book, she seems insufferable. But when you hear her perform it, when you hear her do it, you never, ever, ever want it to end.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And so my biggest takeaway was listen to her do it. And it's just unbelievably satisfying and fun and you fall in love with the conceit and everything. But reading it, there were some things that were quite jarring to see in print. But then when she says it, you're like, oh, yeah, it's great.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. And that was gonna be my other question to you, was, did you read it or did you listen to it? So you've done both?

[Katie Rich]

I've done both. And I kind of did both even when I was reading it. Like, sometimes I would listen to it while I read it. And same. Yeah, it's like this ADHD fever dream. I think what she did was she made a bug of her personality. The feature of it, which is that she's so enamored by everything, like a cat. But it works because that's how conversations on airplanes are 100%. And so I think that that works so, so well. But when you read it, you're like, this is an insane person. And then when you hear it, you're like, oh, this is a person I would talk to on an airplane and think about for the rest of my life.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. I loved listening to it while I read it.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

The audiobook. It's just fantastic. It's definitely how I would recommend somebody experience this book. There's a whole audio world to it that you definitely won't get if you just read it. There's sound effects of, you know, the bar cart coming through on the airplane. And like, when she tells a bad joke in the book, it's like, can.

[Katie Rich]

You hear her dog snoring, like, in the crate.

[Maria Randazzo]

Like, yeah. And there was a little bit of music, and I really loved it. It felt like its own isolated, artistic piece.

[Katie Rich]

And if you listen to the credits, they're different than most audiobooks where she says, like, this performance was. You know, she knows that. And so I almost wish the format of it in the book had been like, a script.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, that would have been cool.

[Katie Rich]

Cause I think it wouldn't have been as jarring to be, like, you read some things that she says, and you're like, jesus Christ. But reading it is so much different than actually hearing her say it. She has a line in there where she says, people are so funny when they don't know what they're saying. It's like when you're just talking to someone in an airplane, you're not really thinking you're already in the sky. I'm drunk, you know? But then there's these themes that occur and these patterns that occur, and you walk away from it knowing how a person feels about things, probably more than they do. So, yeah, if you read it, I would encourage to read it as though you're reading a monologue for a play.

[Maria Randazzo]

It's pretty stream of consciousness a lot of the time. And so I'll be skipping around a.

[Katie Rich]

Little bit, just like she does.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, yeah. So just for everyone listening, we're keeping it as chronological as possible, but I'll be linking some chapters to other chapters to move us through.

[Katie Rich]

I feel like we should order drinks during it, too. During this, we should be like, oh, I'll have a ginger ale.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. An overall thought of mine on the book is that I just felt like she was full of contradictions. Sure. And she had a lot of statements where she was like, in defense of a particular female character in a script, or, like, wanting stronger roles for women and not making them, like, overly sexualized and stuff like that. Just wanting a better place for women in Hollywood. And then I would read something, and I would be like, well, why are you saying that? Or, why are you supporting that person? So I just kind of felt like the book was also full of these contradictions that we'll explore as we get more into the whole thing. But are you ready to dive in?

[Katie Rich]

I'm so ready to dive in. And I do think those contradictions are lovely. And I'm glad that she kept them in there, because that is how we are. And if you talk to someone for seven hours, there would be so much contradiction. And I know. I feel that Way. Like, we'll get into some complicated people that she discusses, and she discusses them in very complicated ways, but I love that those were kept in there. This book feels performative, but it doesn't feel sanitized, which I appreciate.

[Maria Randazzo]

I agree. Did you find there to be contradictions a lot in the book as well? Did that strike you?

[Katie Rich]

You know, it didn't. It didn't. I mean, I actually found her to be quite consistent, especially when she talks so much about her family and she talks so much about her father. And just seeing what her father was like, her reactions to other people and the way that she kind of moves through life actually felt very consistent to me.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay.

[Katie Rich]

And also, she's from a different generation than I am, but I'm from a different generation than you are in comedy. And it was hard for me to understand. Like, when I was in comedy, it was like, you know, this is the early 2000s, when I was first starting, and it was like, if your teacher hit on you, that was good. Like, that meant you were doing something right, you know? Or like, if a guy gave you a ride home, it was like, if you give him a hand job, it's fine. I mean, you didn't pay for a cab. And I think I've said it took so long for me to then, like, be like, no, that actually was wrong.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

So I think I have a little bit of empathy towards her in that. Knowing that she's from, you know, she's 20 years older, from a different generation.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. Thank you for framing it that way. And I think she was 50 when the book came out.

[Katie Rich]

Okay.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. So just to give the listeners an idea of, like, the stage of life in which she was writing this. Okay. So we're in the very beginning of the book. It is established you're on a plane with her, and she's talking to a young woman, and you're on a flight to New York.

[Katie Rich]

Seltzer with ice, please.

[Maria Randazzo]

No, I'm good. No, I'm. Don't bother. And she acknowledges right away on the first page, like, these are strange times. Seems like everyone is feeling a little lonely and left out. The year is 2018, and it's a little meta. You know, at the top, she says that she's working on a book and all that, but that kind of disappears later. And it also didn't bother me, the meta thing.

[Katie Rich]

No, I think it would be weird. You don't want Parker Posey to write a regular book.

[Maria Randazzo]

No, no.

[Katie Rich]

I would have been disappointed.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. And then she gets right into it pretty early, where she's like, I'm not great at being a movie star. I'm just gonna read this quick paragraph. She says, I've maintained a career and I love to act, but I think every job is my last. And when I start the job, I forget that I know how to do it. By the time I find out that I do, I'm done. I'm always thinking of other jobs I could do instead, but maybe those are just characters I want to play. I'm not great at being a movie star. It's either too boring or too much work. I've had too much therapy. I think I thought she was being pretty vulnerable right up top.

[Katie Rich]

I wanted to needlepoint that on my chest because it really is. Obviously, I'm nowhere near as famous as she is, but it doesn't matter. That's the thing I have to remind myself. Every day is like, every time I start to do my job, I start to write or I start to prepare for an audition or something like that. I'm always like, well, today's the day. Today's the day they find out this was all luck and I'm a joke. And some days are like that where, like, I don't know how to do this. You're like, well, I had this much coffee on that day when I wrote this thing that I liked, and so I have to do it here and do it, you know, and there's like a baseball player level superstition to, like, how you prepare for things. And so I thought that was beautiful. I mean, you know, swarms of women like us just love her and worship her. And just to hear her say it like that, it made me feel calmer because I was like, oh, that's normal. That's very normal. And if she feels that way and hearing all the struggles, I mean, at one point, she, like, pulls up her IMDb page to, like, prove to, like, a younger actress that she's. And I'm like, God bless her. But you're also like, oh, no. If Parker Posey has to do that, like, what hope do any of us have? So I love that paragraph. I read that many, many times. It had a. It had an elephant butt next to it. When I was in chemistry class in high school, when something was really important, my teacher would draw an elephant butt to remind us that it was important on the board. And I've done that for the rest of my life. I draw a little elephant butt. I'll draw one for you. We can look at.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay, Please. So Yeah. So I found many of her takes about showbiz to be refreshing and honest and accurate.

[Katie Rich]

And why is that? Like, what about from your experience really hit you through her words?

[Maria Randazzo]

I just thought she was so real about so much of it. Like, she wasn't like, well, I woke up one day and I was at an audition with Steven Spielberg. She just talked about her nerves and how hard it is. And really, the thing right now that's clicking the most for me is, like, how financially motivated everything is. And she was writing this in 2018, and, like, what are we, seven years later? And it's even worse. And it's like, it's a sickness. It feels like a sickness. And she's like, I'm really struggling with this. To the point that she has. What she says in the book is a, quote, real nervous breakdown. She went to the emergency room. This is right after the quote that I read. She got really honest. And she talked about how she was in a play that was not yet on Broadway. I think it was at, like, Yale Repertory or something. And it was called the Realistic Joneses. And she got a great review in the New York Times. And then it was going to go to Broadway, and they pulled her out of the cast and they replaced her with a more bankable name. And that name would be Marissa, to who she speaks of in the book. Very kindly, by the way. Not in this instance, but later. And I was just like, that would gut me if that happened to me. Devastating. But this is very early. This is page 13. And so she's like, I had a nervous breakdown. I went to the emergency room. I cannot take what's going on in this business. And then I had a really delicious slice of pizza with fried eggplant on it.

[Katie Rich]

And isn't that how it goes?

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, exactly.

[Katie Rich]

You come back from an audition where you were humiliated. And, you know, like, every audition I have, especially for, like, a commercial, I'm like, I am so old, and I can't believe I'm still doing this. Like, when you're 20 and you're like, now bite and smile and say you like it. You're like, that's kind of funny. And, you know, and now I'm like, I have. I could have children. I could have children graduating college, and I'm still doing this. So to hear her say that again, like, my first instinct was to be like, oh, no, that can happen to Parker Posey. And then you're like, yeah, that could happen to Parker Posey. So who gives a shit?

[Maria Randazzo]

Who gives a shit? You know, I found her honesty about all of this very refreshing and made me feel less alone.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

And right before the section where she's talking about having the nervous breakdown, she was talking about how she was on the phone with her reps and she was having a total freakout moment. A few other, like, parts that shocked me about this. And she was like, I was at Chris Kattan's house. He's like a brother to me. I was like, oh.

[Katie Rich]

I was like, okay, cool, Cool. Okay. This feels like a good time to.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Take a quick break. Summer is the hardest season for me.

[Katie Rich]

To do my makeup.

[Chelsea Devontes]

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[Katie Rich]

C A U S E M E.

[Chelsea Devontes]

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[Maria Randazzo]

Race the rudders.

[Katie Rich]

Race the sails. Race the sails.

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[Katie Rich]

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[Katie Rich]

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[Maria Randazzo]

Applying my trash.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Okay, let's dive back into the episod.

[Maria Randazzo]

And so she was freaking out that she didn't have a job. And she's like, I might have remembered in that moment that I. I said I was not available to meet for the Born Identity movies or Anaconda, and she said that she didn't want to maybe wrestle with snakes or be in wet clothes while at work. And I cannot blame her for that.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, I can't either. But it's also so hard to not look at that and be like, what's wrong with you? Like, why wouldn't you. Why wouldn't you do that? Of course you take that. Because we're such little, scrappy, needy voids, like, just wanting anything and. And, you know, even financially, you're like, oh, wow, I'd have to spend six months in a wetsuit away from my family and everything I love and, you know, and I won't be with my dog, but I'll be able to live for a couple years.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

You know, I think again, when I read that, when I read her saying, like, I couldn't do the Born Identity, I was like, God damn it, I can't stand this. And then when I heard her say it, I was like, I love her so much, and I want to make a little nest for her and feed her snacks and tell her she's wonderful.

[Maria Randazzo]

Which she would love.

[Katie Rich]

Which she would love and I would love, and it would be great.

[Maria Randazzo]

And we also have a Dringo here. She talks about therapy when she said, I think I've had too much therapy. Therapy's a reoccurring experience in the book.

[Katie Rich]

And she uses the old school term analyst.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. Which I.

[Katie Rich]

Which I quite love.

[Maria Randazzo]

Also on page 13. So really early, we get into one of my favorite relationships in the book, which is her mentor relationship with Nora Ephraim.

[Katie Rich]

Yes, very much so. And she does a great impression of her.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, yeah, she does.

[Katie Rich]

It's not even an impression. It's just this love. Like, it's. You know, when you love someone so much, you can't help but fall into their cadence when you quote them. It's like that, and it's really lovely.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. I felt a real love between them. And I just have to read this part. This is directly from the book. I had a movie mother in the late, great Nora Ephron. She sent me an email a few months before she left the planet that I've memorized and kept close to my heart. Dear Parker, I love watching your life from the middle distance. No one has had a career like yours, and although I understand it makes for moments that have to feel less than secure, it also means you have so many things you would never have done if Your life were more conventional. Love your mother. She'd tell me that there wasn't a conventional bone in my body. Chill. I have chills.

[Katie Rich]

But also, who writes letters like that anymore? Not only is that so personal, it's insightful. And it feels like when you read it, like she was holding her hand when she wrote it. Like, it's just how beautiful. And those are the type of letters and cards that take effort on the person writing them, which is why I think people don't do it anymore.

[Maria Randazzo]

I wish I was better at sending thank you notes.

[Katie Rich]

You should. And I'll tell you this. It's never too late to send a thank you note. Never. I don't agree with the whole, like, you have a year. You have that. Like, it's never too late to say you're sorry, to express sympathy, or to send a thank you note.

[Maria Randazzo]

Thank you. I needed that today. And the other part of this that just really jumped out at me was when she said, love your mother. Like, that is a huge thing to say to someone when you're not their mother, their biological mother. But I loved it so much.

[Katie Rich]

What about it made you, like, what about it?

[Maria Randazzo]

To have the audacity to be like, love your mother. And it's like, I have all these beautiful mother figures in my life that are not my biological mother, but none of them have outright been like, I'm your mother. But I think it's really cool.

[Katie Rich]

But I think it's also, it speaks to Nora Ephron in the sense that I think she knew that that's something that Parker would like and that would jive with her. I think for many people, if you were like, I'm your mother. You know, I think some people wouldn't respond to that. It wouldn't mean what it meant to the person that the letter was for.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes.

[Katie Rich]

I think that letter was definitely for the person it was written to and not for the person who wrote it.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes.

[Katie Rich]

Which is not always the case.

[Maria Randazzo]

And I feel like it's also an invitation to be like, I'm here for you in that way if you want that. And I think that what she's talking about, about, like, I love watching your career. No one has a career like you. Like, as far as Parker passing on Bourne Identity or Anaconda or these other, like, blockbuster films. Like, that's why she has the career that she has. That's why I think so many people have this special place in their heart for her because she, for the most part, picked roles that felt like Parker Posey Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

I mean, seeing her in Superman Returns felt odd, but I was happy she was there, and I was happy she was getting money.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's how I felt when I saw Edie Falco in one of the avatars. I went, whoa, money. So sort of a tag on this thread is something that really made me laugh in the book was when she asked her reps to pitch her as a weather girl at the Today show.

[Katie Rich]

She meant it. She meant it.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And I love that. And also, why wouldn't she do that? I would. I would love to see her be the weather girl on the Today show.

[Maria Randazzo]

She would crush that.

[Katie Rich]

I wish that that had happened just to see it once, but I feel like she should be the weather girl on, like, local news, not the Today Show. Like, every. You know what I mean?

[Maria Randazzo]

Like, a little less produced.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Like, I would love to just be watching local news and then see her show up and tell me the weather.

[Maria Randazzo]

I want that for her as just, like, a fun thing to do whenever she wants it. It would be the funniest thing on Earth. And, yeah, she framed it as, you know, weather is something you can count on. And I just thought it was a really funny joke. And, you know, in terms of the turbulence of show business and all that, I just loved it. I loved it.

[Katie Rich]

And also, it's never what you could count on. Like, it's like, it was just such a funny. It was on so many levels to be like, weather is something you can count on. Like, I know. No, it's not.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay, so let's pivot to talking about her family and her birth experience.

[Katie Rich]

Sure.

[Maria Randazzo]

Which to me was so wild. So she's a twin?

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

Her twin brother's name is Chris, and she is from the South. She was born in Maryland, but she grew up in Mississippi and Louisiana. So that whole Southern affect that we're hearing, especially on White Lotus, like that is. That's all real.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

She was born two months early, and there was a quote in this chapter that rocked me. Her brother was born first, and then she came out second. And the doctor said to her mother, your little boy is fine, but your girl. We need a name for the death certificate. Oh, yeah. Hearing this story as a child made me feel as if I'd already made it. Having gotten through being born, it was like. Applause. Oh, I mean, I cannot imagine. So she weighed two and a half pounds when she was born. She was in intensive care for six weeks, Pulled through Miracle story. I mean, that's a crazy way to enter the world, to be named.

[Katie Rich]

To die, essentially. It's like, what's your name? So it can go on your tombstone. Yes. I mean, first of all, how can things not be extraordinarily profound in everything that you do? But also, like, after that. Wow.

[Maria Randazzo]

Also, in the chapters about her family, she talks about being born into a family of characters and how that really shaped her decision to become an actor. And this is something that a character would do. The day she was brought home from the hospital and weighed, like, maybe three pounds, her mother put fake eyelashes on her as a baby. There's a picture of it in the book. So that's. If you do the audiobook, you are missing some of the pictures. But that just killed me. I was like, I've never seen a baby with fake eyelashes on it. And she said to her mom, why did you put fake eyelashes on me? And her mom was like, I didn't know what else to do with you.

[Katie Rich]

Which I love. I love. And I will say we're all born into families of characters. I think her family is a little bit more theatrical than most. Maybe there's a lot about them that seems exhausting, but then there's also a lot about them that seems very charming. And that's one of those things, because, you know, there's being a character that's wonderful and whimsical, and then there's also, when you're a character, so to speak, and you're raising a child, it can also be very harmful. And so there's a lot of stuff. Like you put, like, if I had a baby, it would wear a Halloween costume every day until, you know, every day you. Come on, man. Like, yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

When she talked about her family being a family of characters. I don't know too much about your family, Katie, but your family did pop into my mind, because there is this thing, I think, on your Instagram where. Isn't it Jean Lefunk?

[Katie Rich]

Oh, yeah. I love when people say, like, I'm not a huge social media person, and I'm not, but I changed my Instagram name to not be my name, because then I feel like if somebody really wants to follow me, they really actually do want to follow, you know?

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And Jean Lefunk is my Instagram handle, and it's what my family. My dad had nine brothers and sisters, and they would all drive to Vegas in the 70s and back then, you know, there were no phones or anything like that. So when it was time for dinner, they would page Jean lefunk over the casino intercom, and that's how the rich family knew it was time for dinner.

[Maria Randazzo]

I love that so much.

[Katie Rich]

And he's not a person. I don't know where it came from. No one knows where it came from. And then my dad will refer to certain people as Gene Lafonques. And, like, it's just. He's been a constant in my life, and he's mythical.

[Maria Randazzo]

So if you're referred to as a Jean Lefunk, is that a positive or a negative?

[Katie Rich]

Well, a Jean Lefunk is sort of like. You know who a Jean Lefunk is? He's a little older. You know, he's probably got a blazer that might be a little stiff. You know, I think Jean Lefunk is who you need it to be based on the evocative nature of the name.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay, that's. That's clear. This whole time I've looked at your Instagram and known you online, I have thought Jean Lefunk was a woman.

[Katie Rich]

Mostly like, oh, you're Gina Lefunk. Like, I'm certainly not. I'm certainly not. No.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay, so diving back into the book, there's nearly an entire chapter dedicated to Parker telling us that she essentially, Amelia Belias her way through life.

[Katie Rich]

She does.

[Maria Randazzo]

She's lost her phone maybe 800 times. She probably can't even count it. But she's like, I lose my phone almost every day. Sometimes I'm walking down the street with my phone in my hand, and I throw it into a gutter.

[Katie Rich]

She's also like. And I always lose it right before a big job.

[Maria Randazzo]

She's losing phones left and right. And she's also, like, buying a new phone when she's on her way to meet someone. So it's crazy. And she's also running baths and forgetting about them and flooding the bathroom and flooding the unit below her. And I was like, parker Posey is either so in the moment, she's either the most present person in the world or she is the most distracted person in the world. I'm like, it's either one of the two, right?

[Katie Rich]

I think it's both. I think the present moment is distracting for her. I mean, these are such harmless, wonderful things. And, you know, we all have friends like this. Like, my very best friend in the whole world. She does that stuff too. You just sort of tolerate it because it is truly baked into who she is. And you wouldn't get the other beautiful stuff without that stuff. It's kind of like a price of admission for, you know, what an angel on earth this unique being is. So her Amelia Bedelia stuff didn't really bother me, I'm sure. No, it would bother an assistant or, you know. But she's not that person. Right. I don't think she would ever keep a film set waiting.

[Maria Randazzo]

No, no, no, no, no, no. But it really was just funny. I thought it was just funny. And similarly, I have a friend who is the same way. And I think you hit the nail on the head where it's like, well, I'm not gonna get all these other beautiful, incredible things about this person without that.

[Katie Rich]

No.

[Maria Randazzo]

So a little bit more about her family. I really loved the chapters about her grandmothers. How did you feel about them?

[Katie Rich]

You know, I did, too. My grandmother basically raised me. Like, I really loved them, too. I think that they were a prime example of something that was hard to look at in print, but was wonderful to hear someone talk about. Because when you read it in print, you're like, these are very dysfunctional, abusive people. But I think that's how we all are with our families. You know, you grow up and you tell these stories, and people look at you like, that's not normal. And you're like, oh. But it was to me.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. So those chapters about her grandmother were tough to see in print because I couldn't help being like, I think you're in danger, girl.

[Maria Randazzo]

Which part specifically are you talking about?

[Katie Rich]

It's just clear that her grandmother maybe saw, like, a kindred spirit in her granddaughter. And I think she had to deal with heavier things than you need to deal with as a kid. A child needs consistency. And when it's all chaos, then that follows you for the rest of your life, and you lose your phone and you forget the bathtub, because that's what you're used to. And so there were some things that I just. I think she was probably always looking around for who was the safe person.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And sometimes she had to touch the hot stove to see if the safe person would come get her.

[Maria Randazzo]

I think that the things that I loved the most about those chapters were specifically how she saw her grandmother through a child's eyes.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. Yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's what I loved about it. Like, the way that she described their homes and the little things on their shelves and the way they did their makeup and the way that they. It brought me back to, like, how I watched my grandmothers. And I think maybe this is, like, another thing that indicates that you should be an actor is that you are, like, this great observer.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

And you're seeing things in the way that she did as a child. But, yes, this book was also, I think, try and read between the lines a little bit here. And I think you're totally right on what you picked up on with those chapters. We do have a Dringo, of course, because she described a lot of food and smells from childhood. And I honestly really love the recipes. I thought it was cute and kitschy and. Did you like it?

[Katie Rich]

It was cute. I mean, those are the only things that are tough in the audio format. I'm sorry I keep doing that. But, like, I do like that. I always like a book. I don't like when a book gets too postmodern, like, you know, David Eggers type. You know, just. I don't like when those things get in the way of the story. And I don't think these things got in the way of it. I think they enhanced it.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's how I felt, too. And I honestly loved listening to her read the recipes. I like her voice. I like her light Southern accent, like, quarter cup almond butter. I was like, I want this all the time in my ear. So I really liked it. I feel like Chelsea would have hated it.

[Katie Rich]

She would have hated it. I mean, even when I talked to Chelsea about this book a while ago, I was like, I don't think you'd like this. Yeah, but that's okay. That's why we're talking about it. But I'd like a separate book where she reads recipes.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Katie Rich]

And I think that that would put me to sleep or I think it would calm my nerves.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes, it was very relaxing. So you get a Fireball cocktail recipe for her grandma Nonnie, and you get a Skillet apple pie recipe for her other grandmother. And I liked them so much because I felt like they enhanced those characters for me.

[Katie Rich]

Correct.

[Maria Randazzo]

And the recipes, you know, at the end, it would be like, cheers to our lineage. I just thought it was, like, sweet, and it's how I identify and relate to family. And it just. I just loved it. I thought it was really sweet.

[Katie Rich]

I think you hit the nail on the head when they enhanced those characters when you said it helped me understand them more.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. Like, it wasn't like, my grandma was really sweet. And then the next page was like, here's how you make skinny granola.

[Katie Rich]

Like.

[Maria Randazzo]

That would have made me mad.

[Katie Rich]

It was like, here's a drink recipe that will not take away your regrets, but will serve as a balm for the horrors of growing up in this society. For a moment. Cheers. You know, and you're like, oh, I get it.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. Okay, so now she gets into talking about her experience working in independent film. She calls it her indie days. And I thought this was all really fun to read and learn about. I also thought it was interesting. She goes out of her way to give flowers to a lot of people.

[Katie Rich]

She sure does.

[Maria Randazzo]

A lot of actresses and also male actors as well. She was talking about working on this 1995 film called Drunks. She says Calista Flockhart was fully committed. She says Dianne Wiest was luminous and truthful and beautiful. And she does this throughout the book about different actors and different projects she worked on. And I was like, I love this. How did you feel about it?

[Katie Rich]

Loved it. It never felt fake. It was always done. You were like, oh, this is really how she feels. And then when she said something that was even a little, bless her heart, that was a real read between the lines moment, too, because she almost never said anything remotely not poetic about the lovely side of a person. And in fact, the only one I think she says anything negative about is David Cross.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

Okay, this feels like a good time.

[Chelsea Devontes]

To take a quick break.

[Katie Rich]

Jack Daniels is proudly served in fine.

[Maria Randazzo]

Establishments, questionable joints, and everywhere in between.

[Katie Rich]

So no matter where you go in.

[Maria Randazzo]

Every bar, you'll always know someone by name. Jack.

[Katie Rich]

Jack and Coke shot at Jack.

[Maria Randazzo]

Jack Daniels, please.

[Katie Rich]

Right away.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's what makes Jack Jack.

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[Katie Rich]

Responsibly.

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[Chelsea Devontes]

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[Chelsea Devontes]

Ask your doctor about epglis and visit epglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. Okay, let's dive back into the episode.

[Katie Rich]

The only one I think she says anything negative about is David Cross. Yeah, he was always too cool for school. And that's not even that negative. But it really was the only, like, mildly pejorative thing that she says about anyone in passing. And I like the way that there are things that you would say in passing, like almost in conversation. It didn't feel overly written. It felt like these are the little quips that she would use if I asked her about these people.

[Maria Randazzo]

And it felt honest without being, like, heavy handed. She talks about Party Girls. I saw Party Girl for the first time recently, obviously from reading the book.

[Katie Rich]

And I fucking love it. Love it.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

What's up, buttercup?

[Maria Randazzo]

The rent and I'm not paying. Love it. I was like, I can't believe it's taking me this long to see this film. It's so much fun.

[Katie Rich]

It was so profound, without any meaning to it. You know what I mean? Like, that's the best type of movie in the world that, like, makes every type of point. But it was never setting out to do that.

[Maria Randazzo]

No. And the moments where I did make the hardest points, it felt so earned. And shout out to Sasha Von Scherler, who plays Judy the librarian, who is, Fun Fact, the director's mother. Yes. Daisy Von Scherler Mayer directed Party Girl. That's her mother, Sasha Von Schuer. Oh, my God. I know who I was. Like, this woman is tremendous.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

And it wasn't in the book, but in some interviews, Parker Posey said that women came up to her and said, party Girl made me want to be a librarian. Thank you for doing Party Girl. It made me want to be a librarian. I was like, oh, my God. She talked about auditioning and she said that's one of the only roles that she's auditioned for. And she got. She, like, hates auditioning, which I feel very similar to. But, you know, part of the gig. And she said she was going out dancing with her friends a lot at that time. So she's like, I was basically cast in a role I was living. But she talked about indie filmmaking. Making was like Small town and congenial. And Michael Clancy was the wardrobe designer for Party Girl, and he borrowed clothes from other designers and this sense of community, which we all need in so many ways in every aspect of our lives. I'm like, yes, filmmaking, too. Make it about community. Like, we don't have to bust budgets. Let's borrow. Let's do this. So I love that. I don't, like, work a ton in the independent film scene, but I would hope that's how it operating. I don't know.

[Katie Rich]

I mean, I think you see that through, you know, the things that Chelsea and Jordan and Chris, you know, that they're doing. As far as you can make anything, you can make it. It's not gonna be easy, but you can make it. You do have to borrow, and you do have to ask a friend, and you do have to have a community. And it reminded me when she was talking about her indie days, it did remind me of improv. And I'm sorry to bring up improv, and I know it's awful, and everyone who's writing a letter is correct, but just how we were, like, in the beginning, how we were just these idiots. There was no promise. I mean, I'm 150 years old. There was no promise of SNL or anything bigger than just learning this thing and making these friends and doing these weird shows and then finding out, oh, there was a slot at midnight. Okay, let's make this a fake sitcom, and it'll be free, and we'll just do it, and we'll just steal stuff from the alley and do the. And just this scrappy nature of just making something for no other reason than to just make it because you had something on your heart that you wanted to say. I really could relate to that, and I couldn't do it now. My husband found this photo or this cartoon that. He was like, I've never seen anything that's you more. And it's just this, like, lovely brunette laying in repose. And she says, oh, I love not camping. It's such a young thing. It's such a young person's game. You can fall asleep on a yoga mat and wake up and go and wait tables that morning. Where now, like, every time I go to bed, it's like getting ready to hike the Appalachian Trail with my mask and my this and my noise machine, you know? So I think there's also a huge amount of discomfort that comes in doing things on a shoestring budget and simply for the art of it. And I think, unfortunately, as we get Older, it's harder to tolerate that.

[Maria Randazzo]

I just don't think at this age I'm meant to live an uncomfortable life. Yeah. Which is, you know, probably related to why she was like, I don't want to wear wet clothes.

[Katie Rich]

You know? And when you're 21, you're like, hell yeah, man.

[Maria Randazzo]

I'll be underwater the whole shoot. Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And then you're like, it's again. Again. It's like when I'm auditioning for fucking Hardee's and I'm like, I am a middle aged woman, like, and I am still trying to sell fries. Like, what am I doing? I think the way she wrote about it was wistful without being sappy and.

[Maria Randazzo]

No.

[Katie Rich]

And it made me a little wistful too. For those times when, you know, you didn't have a phone and you went over to someone's house and saw what they were doing, you hit the nail on the head. There was just this community that was there for no other reason than to do this thing that for some reason we felt we needed to do it.

[Maria Randazzo]

Totally. So loved hearing about Party Girl. Loved watching it. And then just this is what I was talking about, about the contradiction. So, like, I felt like she had a lot of moments in the book where I would be like, yes, that is a very incisive and honest observation with how show business works. Thank you for saying that. Parker Posey. And then she would talk about Chateau Marmont as if everybody should know what it is. And I was like, tell me what Chateau Mar. I mean, I googled it. I was like, okay, I think this is in la. But like, if you're maybe not a person who lives in la, or if you're like, not in the industry, I don't think you'd know what that is.

[Katie Rich]

No. But I will say I think that's okay. And I don't want to bring this back to Liz Fair, but one of the things that I hated about that book was that, I mean, she was born into tremendous wealth. And the way she talked about it, it seemed like there was no self awareness. It was sort of like, this is just my story. But there's a cheekiness to when Parker Posey does it. Like when she says she sat on the lawn, you know, at the chateau, I'm kind of like, she's in on this joke. Like, she knows that that's insane.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay.

[Katie Rich]

So that's the only reason why it didn't bother me. Because the other thing too is it feels very authentic to who she is. I think it Would be weird if she didn't talk like that and talk about these things that are very mundane to her because she has been doing this for her entire life. So I get exactly what you're saying, but it never came off as her trying to seem cool or seem like she was something that she wasn't. If anything, she would talk about these impossibly iconic things and how she kind of floundered in them.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And so that's why the contradiction didn't bother me as much.

[Maria Randazzo]

Got you. There was enough self awareness for you that that stuff didn't bother me.

[Katie Rich]

It wasn't like name dropping. Like, even when she talks about, like, and Michael Shannon was at this party, you're never like, we get it, you know?

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

I was just like, ooh, Michael Shannon working at snl. It's insane the things that you say. And then like, Chris Hemsworth was in my way because I had to get to the bathroom, you know, and that's an insane thing to say. It's just. But it's just your life.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

So that's why it didn't. It didn't bother me.

[Maria Randazzo]

And maybe again, maybe it's also an audio, but maybe I was just reading it at that point and I didn't.

[Katie Rich]

Hear the cheek 100. I think in print. It's jarring. It's also like a lot of the stuff she talks about, like yoga and India. And you're like, lady, lady, lady, lady.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's the next part, actually.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

Perfect transition. Just. There's a lot of chapters about her connection to yoga and nature. And how did you feel about the yoga chapters?

[Katie Rich]

I glaze over anytime there's anything about yoga or I'm in LA half the year and it hurts my soul. And I know that I'm wrong and I should get a kick out of it and I should find a way to accept it, but I will never charge a crystal in the moonlight. I find yoga makes me very uncomfortable. I feel like it's very cultural appropriation. It's always made me very uncomfortable. I do glaze over at a woman telling me how to do a sun salutation.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. Like, fair warning, if you get into this book, there's a lot of chapters on yoga and she does the yogic breathing for a long time. And so there were parts where I was like, oh, my God, you're still breathing. And it would be no words and just a lot. I didn't love the yoga chapters, but I appreciated her talking about, like, her connection to nature and all that. Has this connection to New Mexico, which I know Chelsea would love that.

[Katie Rich]

I will say, the only yoga part I liked was when she was ostensibly doing a full sun salutation in the aisle. On the plane.

[Maria Randazzo]

On the plane. I loved that. More of that.

[Katie Rich]

That I liked. Like. Like when she would take it. And again, it seems self aware. Like she knew. Look at this middle aged white woman doing yoga like that to me is funny because it's so absurd.

[Maria Randazzo]

I agree.

[Katie Rich]

So that I liked. That I liked.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes.

[Katie Rich]

But every yoga instructor she talked about sounded insufferable.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, my Lord.

[Katie Rich]

I know I could live my whole life happily not hearing someone in entertainment talk about yoga. I say with bursitis in my hip and the posture of a shroom.

[Maria Randazzo]

No, I totally get it. I could have dealt with like two less yoga chapters. So skipping ahead a little bit here, her career is moving forward. We're past the independent film sort of heyday for her. And she talks about perhaps being wrong about a few things in her career. And boy, I thought these things were funny. She talks about how she passed on the Angelina Jolie part in Girl Interrupted. She talks about her speed audition where there was a paper plate on the table in the room and she grabbed it to use as the steering wheel because she was like, well, I couldn't just mime the wheel with my hands in the air, so I'll use this paper plate. And then she was like, the director wasn't laughing and it wasn't working. And I just thought that was so hilarious. And then it killed me when she talked about auditioning for Meet the Parents with Robert De Niro.

[Katie Rich]

Same.

[Maria Randazzo]

I was dead. She said there was a line I couldn't say, which was, I'm not your pancakes anymore, dad. And the fact that this was my movie moment with Robert De Niro made me laugh and roll my eyes. I remember Mr. De Niro saying, if you could just commit. And I couldn't.

[Katie Rich]

That. I have that absolutely written down. I literally wrote, meet the parents is like me with the Chicago shows, and it's a testament to my weaknesses as a performer is like, I've auditioned for every single Chicago show. So, like Chicago Fire, Chicago Med, Chicago pd. And it's always like, my baby's in the compactor and I can't do it, and I'm not good. I can't do it. And. And you know, I definitely had a casting director once be like, you know, your baby's dead in this. And I just start laughing. Like, it's just so absurd. I think the fact that the absurdity of those moments of Robert De Niro. You're in front of Robert De Niro, and you're saying, Robert De Niro. I don't know, pancakes or whatever. I think that speaks to why the bathtub overflows. It's because she's so present that the present moment distracts her from what maybe needs to happen in the present moment. And so I. That was one of my absolute favorite parts, because if anyone else had been like. And then I got to audition for Robert De Niro, and he was like, you can milk me. I have nipples. And I was like, wow, I've made it. You'd be like, take Poison, you know? And so I absolutely loved that.

[Maria Randazzo]

That.

[Katie Rich]

I loved that.

[Maria Randazzo]

I loved it, too. And I think it spoke to how authentic of a person she is. Like, it's just not an authentic line to her. She can't say it. She should be playing that lady's kooky sister.

[Katie Rich]

Yes. She should be playing the trainer of Jinxy Cat. She trained the cat how to pee in the toilet. That's what you should put.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, exactly.

[Katie Rich]

What happened to the funny friend? Also, that movie needed that.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. And she would be really funny about how she addressed all these things. She'd be like, you know, I think those movies did really well. And weren't there some girls to meet the people?

[Katie Rich]

And then, like, speed. She was like, I'm glad. Glad Sandra Bullock got it. I think that helped her. Yeah. But I think if you read it. If you read that, you're like, this woman is insane. But you hear her say it, you're like, that's incredible.

[Maria Randazzo]

Exactly. Exactly. And so this was all kind of in the context of her agents being like, we think the movie Blade would be good for you to do. So she took this role as a vampire in the movie Blade Trinity. And the way I read it was kind of like, I didn't really, like, want to do this, but once I got the fangs, I kind of got into it. And then she had to do an action scene where she was, like, shooting a gun and gliding across the floor. And she was like, I got ready. I was, like, nailing it. We did the first take, and the director was like, that was great. But if you could not make the pew, pew sound with your mouth while you're doing. Your mouth can't move. And she's like, but I'm shooting a gun.

[Katie Rich]

And he's like, oh, you could hear me.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's why the bathtub is overflowing.

[Katie Rich]

But how wonderful if I get the opportunity to be a vampire in an action movie. And I get to shoot. And I don't get to say pew, pew, pew. Ugh, what a missed opportunity. It's just a reminder that I forget who it was. It was the director, someone who said to her, we make movies, we should be in jail.

[Maria Randazzo]

It was one of the indie film.

[Katie Rich]

Directors that would happen at SNL all the time. So I'd be like, you know, we make a comedy show. Right. My mother once said to me, it was on my last night at Second City. And she said, you know, you're really lucky cause no one ever gets to do what they want. Which was like heartbreaking, but also. And I was like, she's right. And even if what I want to do doesn't look like what I thought it would, every day I have to be like, I get to say pew, pew, pew. Now then suck it up and don't say it. You know, I have to assume she did eventually do the take take correctly.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes, but. Right, right, right.

[Katie Rich]

I wish more actors would take a moment to yell pew, pew, pew when they're shooting guns instead of, you know, refusing to not speak in an accent for three years.

[Maria Randazzo]

Right, okay. So moving through her career, she keeps talking about how she's really struggling with the way the industry is said, woe is me. When the Lego movie was made, I also thought that was really funny. So she's kind of at a low point here. And we meet Nora Ephron again. They happen to be on the same flight. This was not a good flight for Parker. Her sweet dog Gracie, like pooped in her bag. She had like a mess to clean up. It was like kind of stressful. And she said that Nora looked amazing. And Parker was like, I looked like I looked really bad. And she was like. It was kind of another little lesson from Nora where Nora kind of indicated to her, like, don't look like a bad out of hell if you can't help it. Yeah, like people are gonna treat you not so great if maybe you look like that. But this really all is stemming from her struggling with how much of a business the entertainment industry is evolving to up until this point. And so this is what I'm talking about when I'm saying like these contradictions. So she talked about how she read a script where she was up for playing the role of a mom in a film to help guide a 13 year old actress playing the daughter into a good performance. And she's reading the script and the script is like kind of perverse. And the mom, like makes out with like a 21 year old boy or something early on in the script. And the girl's talking about giving a blow job, like right away. And Parker's just like, I'm not having this. This is gross. Why are we over sexualizing this teenager who wants this? And she has a really open conversation with the casting person around the movie. She doesn't do the movie. It's, you know, a whole shitty situation. But I was like, cool, like, I'm glad that you're speaking about what a shitty script this is. And you have this girl's best interest at heart. And then we get into these difficult chapters about men that she's worked with who are predators. And this is where the book gets really complicated and difficult. And so we're going to move into talking about the chapter about Louis CK just to give some context. Parker's book came out in July 2018, but a New York Times story came out in November 2017 where five women accused Louis CK of sexual misconduct. And he later said in a statement that those stories are true. So I'm just going to give a quick overview of what happened in this chapter. Just this, as best as I can. But I will say before I even do this, to me, it feels like this entire chapter was written in code.

[Katie Rich]

Girl. That's exactly how I felt. I felt like, it's like, you know when you're at a bar and you see a girl with a guy and you're like, I don't know if she wants to be there. And you do the girl thing of like, hey, I like your top. Are we good? Like, it felt like it was written in code. I felt like the whole time she was blinking as she wrote this.

[Maria Randazzo]

So to recap the chapter, she meets Louis. They meet at some type of a play reading in New York. They start hanging out. They go on what she refers to as day dates. He talks about putting her in his show. This is when the show Louis was on tv. He writes a character for her that she felt like, wow, this is a character in my voice. I love this character. Her arc of the character in the season is that the character was terminally ill and the character died at the end. And in the day that they shot that scene where her character dies, it seemed like he was giving her really confusing direction and she, like, couldn't handle it. She didn't want her character to die. It was a very abrupt ending to her time on the show and their friendship.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. And it wasn't that she didn't Want her character to die in a shitty way of an actor telling a writer to make their thing better.

[Maria Randazzo]

Right.

[Katie Rich]

It was a way of like, wow, we've. It doesn't feel like this is an appropriate end to, like you said, not only this character, but our relationship as well. There was more to it than just like, I think I'm a better writer than you. It wasn't that at all.

[Maria Randazzo]

No, no, it wasn't that. It wasn't that. Then they didn't talk for two years and then he invited her to his house for Thanksgiving and he like forgot to give her the right address. So I think he was kind of an asshole there too. Then that was it. She was like. And then we saw each other again for Thanksgiving and that was kind of it. So that's the overview of like, narratively what happens in that chapter. But woo, there's a lot, like we've.

[Katie Rich]

Said, you know, she gives flowers to everyone at every opportunity that she can, which is great because it's also never too late to give flowers. But when she does say something that's even slightly, not effusively praise laden, it sticks out. But I think she does a really great job of how when you look back at that show, you're like, it was all there. It was all there. And she talks about this heart. In one of the episodes where he's in the subway, Louis, the character, right, he sees a musician, this beautiful musician wearing a tux. What's a guy like him doing in a place like this, you know, in the subway? It's appreciative beauty for a few seconds. And then a homeless man with something like 20 garbage bags around his feet barrels down the stairs like he's the king of the place. And he's sloppy and crazy. And Louis thinking, why is this homeless man ruining this music for me? And you can see that he wants to watch the violinist, but the homeless man is so disgustingly scrubbing himself. And it's such a spectacle that Louis can't look away. And the two characters start to meld as Louis watches and the music climaxes. And when the homeless man who's taking a shower with a water bottle is done, the crazy homeless man spits out the water like an ejaculation and laughs, leaving Louis disturbed. Louis CK Is all three of these characters. He's Louis, the title character. He's the accomplished artist in the role of the musician, and he's the homeless man presenting no boundaries. He's the frame itself as the director who composed it all, an artist Given free reign to create, exercises and test his limits and ours. The more an artist can create, though, the more solipsistic they can become. And I was like, you could end the chapter there, I guess.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. Yes.

[Katie Rich]

What a way to say so much without really saying anything.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. And that last line. The more an artist can create, though, the more solipsistic they become. I had that written down. I was like, I have to say that I'm just gonna quickly. Sidebar. I had to look up solipsistic.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

And I'm just gonna tell people what it means.

[Katie Rich]

I will say the only reason I didn't have to look it up is because I've looked it up the 13 other times I've seen it in the book. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think that I knew what it meant either.

[Maria Randazzo]

It basically means, like, the way that you see the world is that everyone around you and everything around you is a character or a thing in your life and your narrative, not a real person. So, like, if I was solipsistic, I'd be like, I'm talking to Katie Rich right now. What do I want Katie Rich to do? Or, how could I get Katie Rich to act? Maybe? Or, like, you weren't.

[Katie Rich]

You wouldn't be talking.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. Like, I wouldn't be thinking of you as an actual person who I'm in relation to.

[Katie Rich]

It's the ultimate malignant narcissist, which I know sounds like a very fun buzzword, but my therapist does use it to describe people that I've dealt with in my life. I think there's something about her father that's like that too, because her father seemed to operate as though everyone was a character in his show, even when things were inappropriate or uncomfortable. And while I don't think her father did the things that Louis CK did to other people who didn't want him to do that. I thought that that was a great way to sum it up. Have you ever dated a guy whose mother truly thought he could do no wrong? Yeah. And thus he truly thinks he can do no wrong. And when someone pushes back at him, it makes him paranoid and crazy and upset. Mm. I felt like that's what happened with Louis. And we do that with men a lot in entertainment too, where it's like, we change our behavior to accommodate theirs, as opposed to pointing out how their behavior needs to change.

[Maria Randazzo]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And I think that that's what she's referring to.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. Yes. Like, we're scratching the surface with this chapter. There's Like a whole, like minotaur myth story woven in here that I had to read like three times. I did. I frankly didn't fully get it. But there's just a lot of in this chapter to chew on. And, you know, you could argue like, why isn't she being more directly opposed taking a stance on this? And I was confused when I read it. But going back and being like, I think there's more here. And I want to think that she thinks he's a horrible person. And I want to think that she thinks that he, you know, isn't just a part of the system and that's the way that it is. But I could understand somebody being like, I don't like how vague this is. You know what I mean?

[Katie Rich]

Sure. But first of all, the one thing she says is this is a self mythologizing memoir with the emphasis on me. Right. So I think if she really dove into Louis, then it becomes about him, which happens all the time. Right. Then the sound bites and the pull quotes from this become what she said about Louis CK and we've seen that happen. Right. You know, Marc Maron is doing the Lord's work and is going around and just calling out so many comedians that female comedians and comedians of color have called out many times. But I think one thing that I kept thinking was, we don't know what she does in private. For someone who's so performative and lives her life so theatrically, I do not get a very performative vibe from her when it comes to things that really matter. Like she would never post a black square on her Instagram or, you know, there's.

[Maria Randazzo]

God. No, no. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good example. Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

I sort of choose to think that the way that she maneuvered with this in private was perhaps different. And also that's not what this book was about.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. And, you know, you said something earlier, Katie, that I loved, which was when we were talking about how do we discuss these things? Like, you were like, I don't want to make this woman's memoir about these men, about what these men have done and how they have of ruined lives and et cetera. This is a part of her story and she's telling it in the way that she's telling it. So I just really appreciated that you said that and I think it's really important and I appreciate everything that you shared so far about this. You've helped me digest it a lot. So thank you so much.

[Katie Rich]

Thank you. And it was. It's hard. I have loved talking about this with you because it is hard, but I think the way you put it was perfect. Where it feels like this chapter is written in code.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. You know, it's in. Yeah, for sure.

[Katie Rich]

And how much of the stuff we talk about is in code? How much have we said in an email or, you know, expressed our opinion to someone that if someone knows the code, they. They get what we're saying? And I feel like. I feel like.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. Okay, so we're gonna leave that at that. And we're gonna hop into Dazed and Confused. She quite the pivot. She spends a little bit of time talking about Dazed. This was so wild to me. She was working on as the World Turns. While filming Dazed and Confused, Parker Posey was on a soap opera. Everyone. I watched a clip. I couldn't resist.

[Katie Rich]

I couldn't get that. I couldn't rationalize that in my head that while she was playing that character in Dazed and Confused, she was on as the World Turns.

[Maria Randazzo]

I know. And she was doing both at the same time. She would do as the World Turns and fly in and do Dazed. So I think that's just hilarious. And, I mean, that was maybe one role that she was able to kind of put her authentic self aside and be like, I will do these lines. She was young. And then just a fun fact from this chapter that sent me. So obviously, that's like, when the world met Matthew McConaughey, right? And she met him on set. Everybody was, like, obsessed with him. Like, who is this guy? Oh, my God, his look. Da, da, da, da, da. She said, I called my agents, and I told them, you have to sign this guy. He's going to be the next big star. And they passed. And then she's like, I like to talk about that with my agents whenever we want to have a rueful moment. If you want to hear more Dazed and Confused talk, talk, check out the podcast on Matthew McConaughey's memoir. We will link it in the show notes.

[Katie Rich]

That will be much more informative and fun than hearing me talk about it.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes, yes, yes. Okay, bad news, everyone. We are unfortunately going back to talking about a disgusting person. I hated the Woody Allen chapter.

[Katie Rich]

There's more than one Woody Allen chapter.

[Maria Randazzo]

I know, so I'm linking them both. So here's what's up. Parker bought a beautiful country farmhouse in, I think, upstate New York, and it was previously owned by Tatum O' Neal and John McEnroe. And it's just like this gorgeous house, and she was painting it, and she fell off of a ladder and she broke her wrist. Big ouch. She breaks her wrist right before she's about to start shooting the Woody Allen film Irrational Man. And so I'm linking these two chapters together. The broken wrist chapter is, like, a whole thing. And then there's the Woody Allen chapter. And so she goes to work on this Woody Allen film, and she has a tough time on set. It seems like she, like, eventually meets what Woody wants. But we kind of hear about her journey on set not acing it. It seems like she was internally having a meltdown on set, like she couldn't give Woody exactly what he wanted. So there's some things that explore that. I do want to read this one line that I hated. This is what I'm talking about with the contradictions.

[Katie Rich]

And to be fair, you could. As you read it, Joaquin Phoenix was also having an infinitely bigger meltdown and was just told to go rest in his home.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, yeah.

[Katie Rich]

As opposed to, like, Parker, who thought she was gonna be fired.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, they're all just worried they're gonna get fired. What a horrible, horrible climate to work in.

[Katie Rich]

Okay, I know what show is like that.

[Maria Randazzo]

But I'm so sick of, like, there was, like, that one chapter. It was like Woody walked over and he said, nobody's getting fired. And I was just like, fuck you for creating an environment that feels like that.

[Katie Rich]

And then you see her chapter on Christopher Guest, and it's the complete opposite. And you see the beautiful work that comes out of that because of how he is. You know, I guess my takeaway is it doesn't have to be that way.

[Maria Randazzo]

No, it doesn't have to be that way. Okay, so just really quick. This is what I'm talking about. About some of the contradictions. So she's talking about being on set with Emma Stone. She writes lovely about Emma Stone, but she was talking about, like, actors on set kind of being treated like horses. And then she has this line about, I would clomp to lunch like an old mare with Emma, who had the light, steady gallop of a young and beautiful thoroughbred. No, Parker is a little older than Emma Stone, but I just, like. I don't know. It just bumps me. I really don't want women to talk about themselves in these ways in relationship to younger women. Like, I clomp to lunch like an old horse, and Emma was, you know, beautifully walking. I was just like, no, Parker. Like, you're better than that. You don't have to stick in that mind frame. So that just. That was one thing I didn't really like.

[Katie Rich]

That stuck out to me too. And I totally get what you're saying and I agree with it. And it's something that I struggle with a lot because there's a lot of power in being the one to self deprecate yourself because it takes it away from others doing it. And also there's some authenticity there.

[Maria Randazzo]

Right.

[Katie Rich]

Because that probably is how she felt. I will say it's one of the few times that she speaks that way about herself. So I didn't mind it because it felt like she wasn't saying it for anyone but herself. I think that's really how she felt.

[Maria Randazzo]

Sure. And she is very self deprecating throughout the book in some ways that I thought were really funny.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

But this one just bumped me because it was like, Emma Stone is so perfect for this Woody Allen film and da da da, da da. And she's struggling and I don't know, I just didn't want her to talk about herself like that.

[Katie Rich]

That's. I think when you hear her say it, it's because you're like, don't talk about my friend like that. Like, you know, you're my friend. Don't talk about yourself like that.

[Maria Randazzo]

Right. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Katie Rich]

So I get that. But I did appreciate hearing it because for someone like her, who is a little baby doll, like, to hear her even say that, I will say it felt kind of again, calming to me to hear even her feel that way.

[Maria Randazzo]

I understand what you're saying. She was in an emotional state where she didn't feel like she was doing a good job. So that might have been about the emotional weight. She was. I was in a bad mood the whole time I was reading this chapter. So that's.

[Katie Rich]

Why were you in a bad mood?

[Maria Randazzo]

Because I hate the way that she's just talking about her love and admiration for Woody Allen. I hate the lavish praise being.

[Katie Rich]

It's tough, isn't it?

[Maria Randazzo]

It was really tough. So I was just like. I was in a bad mindset because I was sickened by the way she was talking about Woody Allen.

[Katie Rich]

I agree with you. It's always been really tough for me to read anything lavishly praising Woody Allen. Mostly because I don't get it. I don't think it's. For me, his stuff has never appealed to me. I find it very hard to watch. I don't find any pleasure in the things that he has created. So I don't even have that art versus artist separation thing to deal with him. She's not the first person who should know better that speaks this way. About him. But I will say talking in code once again. There's this transition that I have to assume is intentional.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay.

[Katie Rich]

She's not talking about really Woody Allen anymore. She's talking about Sunset Boulevard, and she's talking about being a woman in Hollywood. And her analyst, Mark says, the business you are in is perverse. Like, politics is corrupt. Showbiz is perverse. People lie in politics, and there's perversity in showbiz, period. I was nervous to work with Woody Allen since he had been so steadfast to his. I mean, come on.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes, yes, I picked up on that as well. And I did think that there was a few perhaps nods. It just bothered me so much that I'm like, you're so much better than him. And I didn't like the way she was, like, flapping around emotionally to try to please him. That's like, what also really bothered me. But I do see what you're saying about the code in there.

[Katie Rich]

You're just like, no, you're. No, you're so much better than him. Please, I don't want this thing. I don't want this little thing.

[Maria Randazzo]

I don't want this to bother you. Right, right. Thank you for highlighting that and those moments of code. I really appreciate that.

[Katie Rich]

There's code.

[Maria Randazzo]

There's code, people. Okay. Palette cleanser. The chapter about her dog.

[Katie Rich]

Oh, I can't. I can't. And you know me.

[Maria Randazzo]

I do think Chelsea would have loved this part.

[Katie Rich]

I actually almost, like, sent it to her, as you know, all I care about is my dog. And after reading this chapter about her dog, this is not an original thought. When people say things about their dog, they're really talking about themselves. Right. Dogs are these people without any sin. They're just these perfect beings. And even when they do something wrong, we know it's not malicious and it's not manipulative. Or if it is, it's in a nice way because they just missed you. And so everything she would say about Gracie in that chapter, I was like, God, she's talking about herself. Oh, wow.

[Maria Randazzo]

I wanna reread it through that lens.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. And she's talking about herself in such a beautiful, vulnerable way that it really got me. It really got me when Gracie is sort of vilified by the paparazzi for being a bad dog. And she has to have this conversation with her about how it's not true. And if you let them hurt your feelings, you let them win. And they have to keep their website going because old school journalism is almost out the Window. And they're just trying to make a living in this strange culture we have right now. And it's like she's talking to herself. She's talking to herself and then she says, relent and restore your spirit, Gracie. Recover Butterbones. And she started to let go of her anger and her body became softer as she felt the sadness.

[Maria Randazzo]

Thank you for framing it. I've actually never heard that, that when people are talking about their dogs, they're talking about themselves. So thank you for that, that framing. I'm gonna go back and read the chapter with that lens.

[Katie Rich]

She's talking about herself the whole time.

[Maria Randazzo]

Wow, that makes so much more sense because there were so many things in the chapter that I was like, what? We have a Dringo psychic moment. There's a beautiful pet psychic that comes and visits Gracie the dog. Claire the pet psychic. She says Gracie currently has a toothache and that in a past life, Gracie was a 7 year old English girl and manners were really important to her. And so whoever comes into Parker's home needs to start telling fairy tales immediately and make tea and crumpets for Gracie.

[Katie Rich]

I also think that's like, love it. Sort of Parker Posey.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, yeah, definitely. Tell me fairy tales. Take care of me.

[Katie Rich]

She also has this line, I am in love with Gracie because that's what she's there for. She's a vessel of spirit for dark gaps in people, places and things.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's a beautiful line.

[Katie Rich]

And I just looked at my dog and cried because my dog's old and she has bladder problems and what's your dog's name? Lulu.

[Maria Randazzo]

Lulu. And this was a picture in the book that I loved. It's just a huge picture of Gracie. And above it in huge text, it says, my Lord. And Gracie's wearing a wig. It's perfect.

[Katie Rich]

It reminds me of how her mom put false eyelashes on her. It's like you have this beautiful thing. And of course you can put a little hat on it and goggles and give it a sign.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes, yes. All right, so we're skipping ahead a little bit. It. And she's moving. Moving is really hard and disastrous. And she talks about that. But Nora Ephron appears again. She's hanging out with Nora, having lunch.

[Katie Rich]

Seems like a hallucination that occurs whenever Parker needs it.

[Maria Randazzo]

But I love it. I love the relationship. Nora tells Parker to freeze her eggs. And then she says, one day you will have to get work done. And I wrote, boo, Nora, the freeze your eggs thing, whatever. Ask about it, but don't tell Us, she has to get worked on. I hated that. That. Then there were these other cool relationships with women in the book that kept coming up, like Parker's relationship with Marsha. Marsha is the mother of one of Parker's friends. Parker was moving. She needed an apartment. These friends were moving out of their unit. Parker was going to move in, but their mother, Marsha, was going to just stay in the apartment and still live there. So Parker just lives with this older woman named Marsha, and they have this. This really cool, funny friendship. And this is a part of the book that I loved, because I'm reading it, and I'm like, huh? She's not talking about not having children, and she's not talking about not being married. And I was like, I kind of wanted to talk about those things. And then I was like, wait, no. I don't know. It rocks that she's not talking about it, and that is progressive. She's just talking about living her life. That's what we want.

[Katie Rich]

It was if Gray Gardens wasn't sad.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

It was like all the best parts of Gray Gardens, which are just these two women of disparate ages living life the way they want to live it, but without the horrific mental illness and neglect, you know?

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. So if you want to read a woman's story where she doesn't feel the need to dodge bullets and defend her choices of not having a child or not getting married, this is the book for you.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. And she acknowledges it. I mean, it's not like she goes overboard not talking about it, but I think it's what Nora Ephron said in that letter of, like, you've had a very unconventional career, and if you hadn't, you wouldn't be this incredible person that you are. And it's the same even with her personal life.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. Diving back in here and talking about the Christopher Guest films, they were just joyful chapters to read. There's one chapter about it, really. She said her back hurt, and then she was talking about it to her cast members, and Eugene Levy was like, your back hurts because you've been holding in laughter all day. Beautiful problem to have. I just love the way she talked about that cast and the wisdom that she gained from Eugene and Catherine o'.

[Katie Rich]

Hara.

[Maria Randazzo]

It's just like, hero stuff. And Parker's a very sensitive person. She cried when one of the movies wrapped because she was never gonna see the character quirky again. How did you like the Christopher Guest chapters?

[Katie Rich]

I loved it so much. If you're gonna satirize something or shine light on something. It has to be something that you love. And Christopher Guest, it's so clear that he does. He does these movies not to make fun of these people, but to showcase how complex and interesting and wonderful every single human being is that exists. And I chose to hold onto those chapters and sort of discard the Woody Allen ones because I thought that they were just so beautiful. And again, like, such an example of how it can be and how it should be. And, you know, you cry because that sounds like such actor bullshit, but it's true. I've done that. Haven't you ever cried at the end of a book? Because, you know, of course you're not gonna be with those people anymore. Of course.

[Maria Randazzo]

I cried at the end of Sopranos.

[Katie Rich]

I cried at the end of the Pit, even though there's a new season coming, because I was like, I can't. I'm gonna miss them so much.

[Maria Randazzo]

I know. I know. Completely. And it's also like, well, Joni Mitchell laughing and crying, it's the same release. So it's like if you're holding in laughter all day. She talks about crying at the end of a shoot day. She's like, I just came back to my room and I cried because I was like, what did I even say all day? It was so much fun. But to hold so much in. And so it makes perfect sense. Sense. It just makes perfect sense to me. I thought it was wonderful. I loved hearing about Christopher Guest's process. I love the conversation about they were just out to lunch, and she was with the man who plays opposite her in Best in Show. Hitchcock. Michael. Michael Hitchcock.

[Katie Rich]

Hitchcock.

[Maria Randazzo]

And Christopher Guest was like, I think you guys should have braces.

[Katie Rich]

And they were like, okay.

[Maria Randazzo]

And he got a retainer with that, gave him braces, but it gave him a lisp. And Parker didn't want the lisp, so she just got. Got full on real braces. Braces.

[Katie Rich]

And it's incredible. And he's right. Those characters should have braces as adults.

[Maria Randazzo]

100%. I remember what I was drinking when I met you. It was a grande espresso. That's right. And I thought that was really sexy. I was drinking cappuccinos. I remember. And then I went to lattes, and then now double espresso macchiato.

[Katie Rich]

And I'm. I'm now a big old, you know.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Chai tea, latte, soy milk kind of guy.

[Katie Rich]

Soy. Because of the lactose.

[Maria Randazzo]

I'm lactose intolerant now. It felt so right.

[Katie Rich]

It just felt so right. She has A wonderful line in there, too, that it's amazing how funny people are when they're not trying to be funny. And that also kind of sums up this book for me, too, because I don't think she's trying to be quirky or odd or. I think this is really just who she is. And the only thing that I used to teach a lot and the only thing that I ever taught that I think was worth anything was when you're playing a character or writing a character, you know, never, never try to be funny. Try to be loved.

[Maria Randazzo]

Ooh. When you would teach improv, you would.

[Katie Rich]

Say that don't ever try to be funny. Try to be loved. And that, to me, is what all those movies are, are just people just trying to be loved. And it's so funny.

[Maria Randazzo]

It's so funny. That is so beautiful. I just wrote that down.

[Katie Rich]

But that's what I get from her. It's like she's not trying to be funny. She's trying to be loved. Loved.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes, fully. So moving on, here I am doing a quick drive by this chapter, but I have to acknowledge it because it sounds wild and like a very fun watch. She did a movie with Shirley MacLaine called Hell on Heels. The Battle of Mary Kay They Don't.

[Katie Rich]

Wear from, like, Shirley McLean no more.

[Maria Randazzo]

Have you seen this movie? No, but I'm going to. I think the whole thing is available on YouTube. Parker plays Shirley's nemesis, and Shirley MacLaine plays the Mary Kay, like, founder. So that was just fun to know about. And then my favorite chapter in the book is the chapter about her mom. Oh, yeah. I just loved it. She talks about her mom. There is a huge picture of her mom in the book of the recipes. In this book, there is a shout out to one of her mom's friend's recipes. And the recipe is called Trash. And it's that cheese Tex mixy recipe. So I feel like that is the most perfect recipe for glamorous trash I've ever read.

[Katie Rich]

I really would like some cookies to make it because I need to know how hard it is to make because I burn cereal. But I feel like I could make trash, right? I do it again.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, yeah, I think you could. Yeah. It does seem like it's pretty involved, but homemade Chex mix is literally amazing. I'm from the Midwest. I'm from Ohio, and like, oh, God, it's so good. The Worcestershire sauce in there.

[Katie Rich]

Yes, ma'.

[Maria Randazzo]

Am. Oh, my God. So. So just to read a quick little line here, our mothers show up in so many ways and powerful images we never forget that play like stopped images in film. I see my mom all the time and other people passing by and tell her I love her. This is so beautiful.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

And this page goes on to talk about a memory that Parker has of her mother in the front seat of their car drinking a Bloody Mary open container. It's the 70s.

[Katie Rich]

It's Styrofoam, by the way.

[Maria Randazzo]

It's Styrofoam. She talks about her mother's deep red lipstick being on the Styrofoam cup. And her mother turning around and looking at her and her brother and telling her brother, chris, you make the best drinks. Which alludes to the fact that her child made her a Bloody Mary that she's drinking while she's in the car.

[Katie Rich]

It is her from God. Well, fully. With a full beat, like.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes.

[Katie Rich]

It's just beautiful.

[Maria Randazzo]

It's just beautiful. And she says, my mother said this to me as Chicago's Does Anyone really Know what Time it Is? Plays on the radio. And I just closed the book and I cried.

[Katie Rich]

I did, too. I really did. I actually had to, like, dog ear it. Cause I was like, I need a break. Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

We've both lost our moms, and it's been a long time. It's gonna be 10 years for me next year.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, my God.

[Katie Rich]

She died the week Trump was elected. Oh, no. Yeah. The reaction you're having is right. And the thing that's actually been really nice lately is. And I make a joke about it sometimes, but she really does live on in every single thing that I do.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

I just catch myself talking like her and moving like her and reacting to things like her. And how incredible is that? What a gift. And, of course, that can come out in negative ways. Right. There's things about her that are ingrained in me, too, that I try to get rid of. But it's the small amount of grace that we get when we lose someone we love so much is they're in our DNA. Literally. They're just in our bones, and they're in everything that we do. And when we really, really miss them, we find their voice coming out of our mouths completely.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's so beautifully said. And I never met your mom, but seeing her through you same. Like, I know she was just an incredible, amazing woman. And, yeah, I just thought that this piece on her mom was just beautiful. I also fully have memories of my mother looking like a movie star and turning around as I sat in the backseat and talking to me. She says, my Mother talked like a movie star. Everything was, you know, just. Beautiful voice.

[Katie Rich]

That's how my mom talked. Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

And so I just really connected to this memory, and I just. I'm gonna do this. I see my mother all the time and people passing by and tell her I love her. I'm like, I'm gonna do that. That's such a beautiful way to live your life.

[Katie Rich]

It's so beautiful. And I know Casey Wilson has a wonderful story about that. You can link to that if you want, about Louie Anderson and how she told him about her mother dying. And he said, what was her name? And she said her name. And then, you know, he said, well, we love you. And I think I like to do that, you know, so, you know. What was your mom's name?

[Maria Randazzo]

Joanne.

[Katie Rich]

Well, we miss you, Joanne, and we love you.

[Maria Randazzo]

What was your mom's name?

[Katie Rich]

Mickey.

[Maria Randazzo]

Oh, Mickey. We miss you, and we love you. I love the name Mickey.

[Katie Rich]

Her real name is Helen. But, you know, back then, it was like her name was Gertrude, but everyone called her Seven. You know, it was like. There was no.

[Maria Randazzo]

There was, like, serious reason to dictate. Yes. Thank you for being so vulnerable right now and sharing so much about your experience. And I'm sorry about the anniversary that you're coming up on. That's really difficult.

[Katie Rich]

I'm sorry about every random day that comes up that. Yeah, sometimes anniversaries are a little easier.

[Maria Randazzo]

I know.

[Katie Rich]

We prepare for them. We don't prepare for the day that we're walking through coals and have a mental breakdown.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

For me, it's like a T.J. maxx.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, of course it is.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Katie Rich]

Because you see something and you're like, this is such a great deal. I wish I could tell my mom.

[Maria Randazzo]

I know, I know, I know. Thank you for talking about that with me. I just absolutely loved it. And I love the 70s glam and all of that.

[Katie Rich]

Love it.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay, we're going to skip right over the chapter about pottery.

[Katie Rich]

Why, thank you. I'll be honest. I did. I did as well.

[Maria Randazzo]

I mean, I read it, but I was like, I can't. And she. In the acknowledgment, she's like, thanks for letting me write a chapter about pottery. Pottery.

[Katie Rich]

But that's what I mean. She's so, so. I mean, she knows.

[Maria Randazzo]

She knows. She knows.

[Katie Rich]

There are some people out there who genuinely think I know there. It's worth listening to them talk about pottery. And if there is anyone. It's worth listening to talk about pottery, it's probably her.

[Maria Randazzo]

Right. But we're gonna go into the chapter where she talks about Nora Ephron's funeral and losing Nora Ephron.

[Katie Rich]

Her mother.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, her mother and I thought it was a beautiful chapter. She says Nora loved butter, and everyone who spoke at her service talked about it. She explained how Nora planned what her service would be like, who would speak, and in what order, just to name a few people. It was Meryl Streep, Mike Nichols, Tom Hanks, Rita Wilson. Dingo. Psychic moment. Parker had a dream about Nora, like, earlier that week. And it's a cute dream where she was like, I wanted to steal eyeliner from her, but if I stole it, I knew I wouldn't be able to come back and see her to borrow it. So it was just a beautiful, sweet chapter, and I feel like really reflected the deep love that she has for Nora. This is something that Parker shared. Nora wrote Parker a letter on stationery right after she wrapped Sleepless in Seattle. Parker was in a scene, and that scene got cut, and it was like. Like, kind of right when Parker was starting out, and Nora wrote her a letter, and she was like, your scene got cut. It had nothing to do with you. I just wanted to let you know, you are so talented. Thank you for doing the movie. And I was like, that is such a beautiful act to do, especially in show business. And I have to say, when I read that, I was like, chelsea Devontez would do this.

[Katie Rich]

She would. And it's like, no one does that. And especially the longer you're in this business, the more you realize things don't work out, and they're 2 million percent not your fault. My mother would always ask me, how can you go on these auditions? How can you submit for these things? And you just hear, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, because I've been on the other side, and I know how those decisions never really have to do with me. Yeah. Never. Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

And I have seen Chelsea do this. So on season one of the problem with Jon Stewart, I was the writer's assistant, and we were going through the packet process, and we got 2,400 packets.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

So many packets. And the people who got close but maybe didn't make it to the final rounds, Chelsea reached out and said, hey, I just want to tell you, you got really close.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Maria Randazzo]

That means everything to that person. That is such a gesture. She's so busy. Like, what Nora did for Parker, Chelsea has done for people. And I really want people to know that it is a very special thing. That that makes a world of a difference and is an act that will keep you going in this business that breaks you down.

[Katie Rich]

It will. 100. And that's the other thing too. It's like, never hold back a true kind word that you really feel. Because I can't tell you the little scraps of paper in my head I hold onto that. People have said to me in passing that I know they don't remember at all. Yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

Never hold back a kind word. Except if you're gonna say, Jimmy Fallon is the best dancer that has ever lived, which Parker said in this book. Look, it's like right around this area. And I was like, what? I mean, I know she's just joking around, but I was like, nah.

[Katie Rich]

Or is she. Or is she?

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay, I just want to jump to what was the biggest laugh in the book for me. Which is page 290.

[Katie Rich]

Yep. Mildred, baby.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. Yeah. This is a Mildred quote. One of Parker's therapists. Biggest laugh in the book. Once, after a breakup I couldn't get over, the guy married a girlfriend of mine. Soon after, Mildred said, I want you to put him in front of you and I want you to chop his head off with an axe. I laughed out loud. And of course, in the audiobook, there's this gorgeous axe hacking sound. It's so funny and so great.

[Katie Rich]

It is. Don't you remember? Like, it's the truth. Like, I remember when Tae Bo was really big and I would always. Tae Bo punch this girl that took my boyfriend. And it's always like, you say, like, took your boyfriend. It's like, like, no, that's not what you know. But I. I love that. And I mean, that's a good therapist. A therapist, they can lead you to water, but they can't make you drink. But sometimes they can put a straw in your mouth. And I feel like that was. That was her doing that.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, definitely. So this brings us to the last chapter of the book where we are back in a yoga class. The last thing I'm going to read is actually not from the last chapter of the book, which I know Chelsea usually does, but. But this is from page 270. And I feel like it just gives a nice glimpse into why she wrote the book like this. When this book came out, she was shooting Lost in Space.

[Katie Rich]

The TV show.

[Maria Randazzo]

The TV show, yes. The reboot of Lost in Space. So she's in Vancouver, I think, shooting this or getting ready to shoot it. And she has a special connection to the show. And she said, I think also that the thing I loved about Lost in Space as a kid was that was it. It starred a kid my age, Bill Mummy, as Will Robinson. And I was already a fan of his work from the Twilight Zone. In Lost in Space, his most trusted friend was the robot. It was the first close relationship on television between a kid and technology. And brought into our collective reality this new intimacy between ourselves and the television. This box, this frame. That robot only said, danger, Will Robinson. The dangers we've seen from technology and the weird brainwashing of mass media. How sad it is no one talks to people on airplanes anymore. And so that's one of my favorite chapters in the book. I feel like it's a really good assessment of, like, where we are as a society and the lack of connection and what she's observing and how the entertainment industry has evolved.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. And I think, too, the irony is a book like this is literally the conceit of it, is that you're talking to the audience. And yet, you know, the irony here is it's clear that she is her own audience, which is sort of what happens when you talk to people on planes, you know?

[Maria Randazzo]

Mm.

[Katie Rich]

And I think there's something really beautiful about that, that you do have to be your own audience, and you do have to be the one that gets a kick out of yourself. And I like when she says, like, this is an emphasis on me. I think that's okay.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. I mean, it's a memoir.

[Katie Rich]

I think that's okay. And I think. I don't know. I just. I just. I really, really love that, that she took a book and made it explicitly for an audience. She uses the second person.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And yet it's all about the first person, and I think that's really cool.

[Maria Randazzo]

Did you like the way the book did end with her being like, where do I land something? Come here. Did you like that part?

[Katie Rich]

Yes and no. I have to be honest with you, I don't think I understood it.

[Maria Randazzo]

I didn't really understand it either, which.

[Katie Rich]

Is why I was like, oh, I.

[Maria Randazzo]

Think there's a better paragraph I can grab that kind of encapsulates the last.

[Katie Rich]

Line is literally, how do I land something? Would come here.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah. And it didn't bother me.

[Katie Rich]

But to me, I think the end of the book is actually the acknowledgments. I know that a lot of times those are tacked on, but to me, it felt like the end of the book is a curtain call, just like a show, and that that's the true end of the book.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. And as Chelsea says, always read the acknowledgments. That's a great point. And the last person that she thinks in the acknowledgments is Marcia, the woman who she lived with.

[Katie Rich]

I know, right?

[Maria Randazzo]

The older woman who didn't understand what she was eating when she was eating the Chex mix trash recipe. And it was so funny. She just, like, couldn't stop eating it. And she was like, what am I eating?

[Katie Rich]

That's me every night, like, when I'm dipping pretzels in Hellman's mayonnaise and I'm like, what am I eating? And then I'm like, oh, that's what I was eating. And I ate it all.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay, it is time to do the booktool test. Are you ready?

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Maria Randazzo]

Okay, first question. Was the author vulnerable in the sharing of their truth? Yes, I think that they were as well. There were. Sometimes I wanted her to be more specific. Like when she would allude to suffering, she would be like, everyone has suffered, including me, or something like that. I would be like, I just want to know a little bit more. But to your point, a lot of this book is in code.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah. And I just don't think that's her. I think. I think for her to come out and talk very plainly about her experience with Blake Lively or something, I think would come off as like. Like what?

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

[Katie Rich]

That's not you. So it's very odd for me to say that something was vulnerable when it's wrapped in a conceit. And I found this to be very vulnerable.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, I agree with that. Was it entertaining?

[Katie Rich]

Yes, very much so.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. I thought it was entertaining, too. Nothing to me is as entertaining as watching her. No, but it. It was entertaining. Except the pottery and the yoga chapter, which she knew. She knew.

[Katie Rich]

I think if you were watching her do this as a one woman show. Yeah, it would be entertaining.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yeah, it would be a great.

[Katie Rich]

It would be so funny to see her, like, do that.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes. Okay, and then last question. Did reading it elevate your life?

[Katie Rich]

It did. I actually think it did. There were parts in there that just listening to her experience and thinking about how unattainably cool and amazing she is and hearing her say the same things that she had, you know, worn the same shoes as I had, metaphorically. I can't fit in her shoes. It made me feel, like I said, a sense of calm and a sense of, you don't need to change things up. You're fine, you're fine. There's nothing drastically wrong with you. And I also thought that there were beautiful, beautiful things in there. There were beautiful passages that really stuck with me, and. And it felt like looking through a photo album at a thrift store that I had found. And even though I didn't know those people, they all happened to be at places that I had visited. And so it had, like, a lovely sense of nostalgia, even though for things that I hadn't experienced.

[Maria Randazzo]

Yes, same lovely sense of nostalgia. Particularly the 70s. Yeah, and I love that. I love the 70s. It's one of my favorite decades, aesthetically and all that. So, yeah, reading it did elevate my life as well, in that it has inspired me to be even more of my authentic self. I just feel that she's who she is. She's not thinking about it too much. And she might be 30 minutes late to meet you for lunch because she lost her phone, but you're also gonna see the world through her eyes in this really beautiful way that is shocking and surprising. And. Yeah, she just made me want to be more of the weirdo that I know that I am. And I know that might sound so fucking horny.

[Katie Rich]

No, but I think one thing I wrote was I've gotten so much less theatrical as I've gotten older. And I think that's good in many ways, because I think theatricality, as we saw through her father and things like that could be quite exhausting. But I think Chelsea reminds me of those things, too, of, you know, you can wear the hat. You can. Because I think, you know, she even says it in here. No one cares. No one is paying attention to you. No one cares.

[Maria Randazzo]

I love that that was a chorus throughout the book. She'd be like, who cares? No, no one.

[Katie Rich]

And how wonderful, like, yeah, that is. I think younger me would have found that very devastating and wanted to rage against that. Now it's more like. It's very freeing and calming, definitely. And so, yeah, I think you dress to make yourself happy. You are your most important audience, and that's really what I took away from this, which I think is lovely.

[Maria Randazzo]

That's beautiful. I can't thank you enough for this conversation and your time and your honesty. It's just, like, truly been a treat to hang out with you. I've admired you for years, and so this has been really special to me.

[Katie Rich]

It's same, like, I just was like, you've always been such a delight and just such a twinkling light when we would cross paths. And so to get to just kind of sit here and bathe in that light was wonderful.

[Maria Randazzo]

Thank You. That's so sweet. And like, Parker Posey. Yes. Is one of my most favorite comedic actresses. As are you. And I was like, this is like, this is why I want to talk about this book with you.

[Katie Rich]

That sounded like Greek, because I don't think I can comprehend that. But I'm gonna put that on the little slip of paper that I keep in my head that I'll. I'll hold on to, like, grim death to get me through days where I'm like, ah, I gotta take. Can you. Where I Google, like, too old for lsat. Like, I Google, like, every day.

[Maria Randazzo]

Well, I mean it. I used to watch you on the main stage and everything you did was always my favorite. And I was like, that's what I want. That's what I want to be like, okay, please plug yourself, tell people where they can find you and follow you. If you want, you can look up.

[Katie Rich]

My man Jean Lefunk. And I'm not the most out there person, but I'm out there enough. And I do love to chat with people. That's why I like having that name not be my name. So you can find me there. You can go to katierich.com, i would love if you watched season five of Harley Quinn. It's all out. It's been out for a while on what is now known again as HBO Max. It's something I'm really, really proud, proud of. And I'm always doing shows here and there, so I would love to see you and talk to you and hopefully end up hugging and crying a little bit and then just drinking a vodka and being fine.

[Maria Randazzo]

I love it. Yes, please, all of that. Thank you so much, Katie. Really appreciate it.

[Chelsea Devontes]

A big thank you to our senior managing production producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and every plate. We will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier.

[Katie Rich]

You can join.

[Chelsea Devontes]

Leave a comment, chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there.