Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Season 2 premiere: Soft Swinging & Sexy Baptisms

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast - Episode Summary

Episode Title: Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Season 2 Premiere: Soft Swinging & Sexy Baptisms
Release Date: May 15, 2025
Hosts: Chelsea DeVontes & Emily Walker

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Introduction to Season 2 Premiere

In the season 2 premiere of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, host Chelsea DeVontes teams up with guest Emily Walker to delve into the intricate lives of Mormon wives navigating complex personal and cultural landscapes. The episode, titled "Soft Swinging & Sexy Baptisms," offers a provocative exploration of faith, friendship, and fidelity within the Mormon community.

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Early Screenings and Initial Impressions ([01:05] - [17:05])

Chelsea DeVontes ([01:05]):
"I have a guest with me today, Emily Walker, a writer, comedian, and actress known for Chicago Party Aunt. We've watched the first three episodes of the season and are here to dissect episode one in detail."

Emily Walker ([02:52]):
"Yes, I'm a reality television connoisseur. I even did a bit on stage where I could answer any question about any reality TV show."

Key Discussion Points:

• Timing of Filming:
  Emily praises the producers' decision to resume filming a month after the show's original premiere, aligning with the ongoing discourse from season one.
  "[04:30] Emily Walker: 'They picked up cameras right back when the show was gaining traction, which was perfect timing.'"

• Comparison to Other Reality Shows:
  The duo compares Secret Lives of Mormon Wives to other reality TV shows like Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, noting the unique cultural backdrop of Utah enhancing the show’s authenticity.
  "[05:21] Chelsea DeVontes: 'The Mormon culture is bred for incredible influences, with perfectionism and hard work intertwined.'"

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Episode One Breakdown

Opening Scene Analysis ([05:49] - [07:22])

• Visuals and Symbolism:
  Chelsea describes the dramatic opening featuring women in blue jackets and white nightgowns, symbolizing a blend of traditional values with provocative elements like "wet T-shirt baptisms."
  "[06:37] Chelsea DeVontes: 'They are doing a wet T-shirt baptism. It was full-on softcore.'"

• Cultural Tensions:
  The juxtaposition of Mormon temple imagery with sensual baptism scenes highlights the underlying tensions between religious adherence and personal desires.
  "[07:11] Emily Walker: 'They might be filming from outer darkness currently.'"

Setting and Influencer Dynamics ([07:22] - [10:04])

• Influencer Events:
  The episode starts with the women attending a cowboy-themed influencer event, revealing the superficiality and performative aspects of their social interactions.
  "[08:35] Chelsea DeVontes: 'These gals are doing cowboy outfits from Party City, clearly a low-budget influencer event.'"

• Character Spotlight - Miranda:
  Chelsea and Emily discuss Miranda's TikTok presence and her status as a young, stunning influencer navigating scandal and personal turmoil.
  "[10:26] Emily Walker: 'Miranda is 26 but looks so flawless, it’s hard to remember her age.'"

Scandal Unfolding ([12:06] - [19:35])

• Soft Swinging Revealed:
  The term "soft swinging" is unpacked, revealing it as a delicate form of infidelity involving playful but non-committal interactions among couples.
  "[17:18] Emily Walker: 'Swinging meant they played spin the bottle and kissed like repressed children.'"

• Interpersonal Conflicts:
  The fallout between Taylor and Miranda is examined, highlighting issues of trust, betrayal, and the complexities of maintaining friendships amidst scandals.
  "[19:19] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Taylor and Miranda are caught in a web of lies and fractured friendships.'"

Emotional Turmoil and Personal Struggles ([24:04] - [37:59])

• Taylor’s Trauma:
  Both hosts delve into Taylor's deep-seated issues stemming from an absent father and how it influences her behavior and emotional responses.
  "[33:53] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Taylor's dad abandoned her after meeting once, leaving her with unresolved trauma.'"

• Jen’s Struggles:
  Jen's background is explored, revealing her past homelessness and current battles with manipulation and self-identity within the show.
  "[42:34] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Jen is a people pleaser, constantly manipulating situations to avoid conflict.'"

Character Dynamics and Relationship Flaws ([37:59] - [54:37])

• Zach’s Decline:
  The episode critiques Zach's character development, portraying him as increasingly unkempt and disengaged, ultimately abandoning medical school to stay with Jen.
  "[38:35] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Zach looks like a walking horror, his appearance deteriorates significantly.'"

• Mother-Daughter Tensions:
  The interactions between Taylor and her mother highlight generational conflicts and the pressures of maintaining religious and social standards.
  "[49:35] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Taylor's mom is obsessed with her appearance, showing signs of deep-seated insecurities.'"

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Themes and Cultural Commentary

Intersection of Faith and Modernity:

• The show illustrates the clash between strict religious doctrines and the modern influences of social media and celebrity culture.
  "[25:37] Emily Walker: 'They make up their own rules as they go, blending Mormon values with the freedom of influencer life.'"

The Role of Influencers:

• Hosts discuss how the characters leverage their participation in the show to amplify their social media presence, blurring the lines between personal lives and public personas.
  "[21:21] Emily Walker: 'The show feeds directly into their TikTok, monetizing their scandals and drama.'"

Psychological Impact of Reality TV:

• The emotional struggles of the characters underscore the psychological toll of living under constant public scrutiny and the quest for validation.
  "[36:15] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Watching Taylor, it's clear that unresolved trauma is driving her destructive behaviors.'"

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Character Analysis

Taylor:

• Background:
  Abandoned by her biological father, Taylor's emotional fragility is a central theme.
  "[33:53] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Taylor's dad didn't choose her, leaving her with deep-seated emotional scars.'"

• Behavior:
  Her participation in "soft swinging" is portrayed as an attempt to cope with her pain, leading to further complications.
  "[37:57] Chelsea DeVontes: 'She's crying out the rage of a thousand dadless daughters.'"

Miranda:

• Relationship with Taylor:
  Their friendship is strained by issues of trust and betrayal, especially concerning mutual romantic interests.
  "[20:03] Emily Walker: 'Miranda's ex-husband Chase confesses feelings for Taylor, adding tension.'"

• Personal Struggles:
  Balancing her faith with personal desires leads Miranda into controversial actions that jeopardize her standing.
  "[25:46] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Miranda holds onto the belief that she remains a good Mormon despite her actions.'"

Jen:

• Manipulation and People-Pleasing:
  Jen's tendency to avoid conflict through manipulation highlights her internal struggles and fear of rejection.
  "[43:50] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Jen is constantly trying to be perceived as the good girl, often to her detriment.'"

Zach:

• Decline and Isolation:
  Once ambitious, Zach's retreat from medical school symbolizes his deeper disengagement from personal and professional responsibilities.
  "[38:35] Chelsea DeVontes: 'Zach's transformation into a disheveled figure signifies his loss of purpose.'"

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Concluding Observations

Chelsea and Emily wrap up their analysis by reflecting on the broader cultural implications of the show, emphasizing its critique of patriarchal structures and the pressures faced by young Mormon wives in balancing faith, popularity, and personal fulfillment. They express skepticism about the characters' abilities to overcome their ingrained issues, hinting at continued drama and development in future episodes.

Chelsea DeVontes ([56:02]):
"We’re just recording episodes, and I believe Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is deeply speaking to culture, whether you like it or not."

Emily Walker ([56:03]):
"Absolutely. This show is taking a little hammer to culture, feeding into movements like tradwives and exposing the complexities within."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Chelsea DeVontes ([06:37]):
  "They are doing a wet T-shirt baptism. It was full-on softcore."

• Emily Walker ([17:14]):
  "Swinging meant they played spin the bottle and kissed like repressed children."

• Chelsea DeVontes ([19:35]):
  "No, they're not gonna make it. And that's simply age, I think, too."

• Emily Walker ([25:37]):
  "They make up their own rules as they go, blending Mormon values with the freedom of influencer life."

• Chelsea DeVontes ([33:53]):
  "Taylor's dad didn't choose her, leaving her with deep-seated emotional scars."

---

Final Thoughts

The season premiere of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives offers a compelling look into the lives of young Mormon women grappling with faith, identity, and modern societal pressures. Through candid discussions and in-depth analysis, Chelsea DeVontes and Emily Walker shed light on the intricate dynamics at play, making this episode a thought-provoking addition to their podcast series.

Transcript

[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we cover viral articles and trashy discourse to elevate your life. And today's trashy discourse is the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Season 2 premiere. I'm your host, Chelsea DeVontes. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. I'm and I am obsessed with this show. I grew up in Utah for eight years, as I frequently mention, and so I feel tied to this show. I feel like I went to high school, some of them, that's how I feel. Or middle school or whatever. And so I did a, I'm going to say my magnum opus on season one. I covered the entire season in a recap episode. I also talked about Tia Loving's memoir about being a trad wife and leaving the church. I had this whole thesis. It's one of our most listened to episodes. I will link it in the show notes. But today we're changing it up. I have a guest with me here today. We got early screeners like the golden plates being handed to Joseph. I was like, oh, I've been given a gift from God. Which was early screeners. And we watched episodes one and two. I also watched episode three. And today in this episode, we're talking about episode one. And my guest is Emily Walker. Writer, comedian, actress, all kinds of things. Chicago party aunt for two seasons. A lot of hot stuff. And listen, if you read my memoir, if you're in deep, you know Emily, you also may know her from the Loretta Lynn episode where we really we recapped our story a little and did a refresh on how our story was going. And now we are here and we're gonna recap Secret lives of Mormon Wives.

[Emily Walker]

Exactly.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Are you a fan of the show? Were you a fan of the show previously?

[Emily Walker]

Yes. I mean, I'm a. I'm a reality television connoisseur.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I was about to say whore.

[Emily Walker]

Whore.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

No, connoisseur.

[Emily Walker]

Connoisseur.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. I did this bit on stage once where I literally just asked the audience to ask me any question about any reality television show. I knew it's an answer, and I knew every single answer that they asked me.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That's absolutely right.

[Emily Walker]

The full gambit, competition, everything.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

So I would also say you're always ahead of the trend. Like, you're like, this show's gonna pop or this is gonna be bought next season. You should cover on the podcast.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a tastemaker.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay. As a tastemaker, what do you have to say about season two of this show? Because, whoo. I am so thrilled those producers got it together. Taylor stops getting arrested mid season and ruining their whole production.

[Emily Walker]

That we know of.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That we know of. But, I mean, the filming. Oh, God, this season is just so much better.

[Emily Walker]

Great. Well, they made a really phenomenal choice to pick up cameras a month after the show premiered originally. That's right when I was looking at the timeline in the first episode, it's like they're doing, like, Halloween type stuff or they're gearing up for Halloween. And when I'm going back and looking at the girls Instagrams, the show, they were doing press and talking about it like, 7, September 5th.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Emily Walker]

So the show had just come out. So we're in the thick of all of the discourse of season one, and it's a beautiful place to pick those cameras right back up.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Sometimes picking those cameras right back up. Vanderpump rules happens too soon.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You need more time. This was perfect. And also season one, the way it was shot, the amount of episodes that came out, the timeline malfunctioning, you can tell that it just barely made it to air. Like, they were like, yeah, we've cut. We've chopped this to bits. We're going to try to make this a show. And you could tell that they had no idea if it was going to work or not. And the moment it worked, they were like, get back in there.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. It's kind of crazy because there's so many shows that take such a long time. There's something in the water in Utah because Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is the same way. Like, the minute it was on television, it popped and we were very invested. Whereas, like something like a Real Housewives in New York. They're in season two of a reboot and it's dog shit. It's awful. So the Mormons are bred for this in a way that maybe I don't think other people are.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

It's dark because those women know how to work. And I'm saying this as someone who grew up there, like activities, extracurriculars, the art of pretending you're perfect is a non stop job from day one. They really are. The culture is bred to make incredible influences.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Perfectionism meets hard work meets, like, tight values.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah.

[Emily Walker]

Well, it's a perfect storm.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

First of all. Episode one, 60 minutes.

[Emily Walker]

Full hour.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Full hour. I was thrilled. Okay. Season one opening. They're all in these, like, blue jackets that some producer got lucky with at Kohl's. Cole's had a special with peacoats.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Even though they're not filming in winter. And they're all Tradwife esque. Holding hands.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

A good distance away from the temple. Like, as if there was a restraining order on the mall and you could only shoot like 200.

[Emily Walker]

The temple said, get the hell away from us.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And they're walking away holding hands. And I was like, oh, my God. And the, and the church music and the temple in the background. I thought, like, this is so scandalous. And what an opening. This season's opening. I'm not religious. And I, like, felt like agrees. I was like, I cannot.

[Emily Walker]

This is blasphemy.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I cannot. They are doing a wet T shirt baptism.

[Emily Walker]

Oh, yeah, the dunking. I didn't know that the dunking could be so sexy.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Who knew that you could get baptized and arch your back up with your.

[Emily Walker]

Tits and like pointed to gone out and stuff? It was amazing.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And your. The, your hair's flinging the water and they're. They're walking out of the baptismal lake with just fully drenched white nightgowns.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. It is not the baptism I had as a 13 year old in the creek of Kentucky, but how is there.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Even enough water in the creek?

[Emily Walker]

Well, sometimes the water do get up after a rainy season. So we can, we can get a good dunk. Yeah, we get a good dunk down in the creek. Maybe I thought that's how I looked at 13, whipping my hair around, but.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I mean, no, it is full on softcore. Here's the other thing, too. I went in so deep when this show came out. Michaela has never been Mormon.

[Emily Walker]

Wow.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

She's getting sexy. Baptism in the opening credits and that's where I was like, I think we've. I can't believe I'm saying this, but, like, where are you gonna go next? Yeah, what the hell are you gonna do next?

[Emily Walker]

It's. They're gonna make the undergarment sexy. It's. It'll be like a montage of them.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Like, skims. Yeah, Undergarments, collab.

[Emily Walker]

That's where we go.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

The garment. Yeah, you're right. I was like. I was like, y' all are going to outer darkness on this intro alone. Which, by the way, I learned when I put it in print in my memoir not to talk about how Mormons believe in hell in specific ways. They do, technically. But really what Mormons really believe and talk about is outer darkness. That's where you go when you've been bad. And I'm pretty sure all these ladies are going to outer darkness. They're going to the dark planets.

[Emily Walker]

They might be in outer darkness currently.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I was like, I can't believe you're even pretending. Yeah, I mean, they might be filming from outer darkness.

[Emily Walker]

I think so.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay, so the episode begins, and they're all meeting up at a cabin cowboy themed influencer event that I think cost. What do you think, $7?

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, they went to Party City and they got some gingham and some hay bales from somewhere. And.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, rented like, a bowl kind of. Because it's not. It's just like a tiny little writing mechanical bowl.

[Emily Walker]

Did you look up the brand?

[Chelsea DeVontes]

No, because I just saw their three magazines set on a barrel of hay. And I said, okay, what is it?

[Emily Walker]

I looked it up. It's called, like, it's Gracie Liu. All of her stuff is just, like, cowboys, but it's like, it's very sexy. So it's like a $78 sweatshirt that says, I'd shake my tits for a cowboy or something. Like, shake my ass for cowboys or whatever. And they have hats that look very maga inspired. Like, it's giving, like, undercover Republican. Like. Like, what they're selling is like.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Like, when they're like, Republicans are the hot party now.

[Emily Walker]

Right. It's like a lot of Americana, a lot of jean shorts with tits.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Then why don't they have more money for an influencer event? I've never seen a sadder influencer event in my life. I was like, there's. They literally had three magazines, and that was, like, all the camera could catch because they didn't have signs or brand. What are you doing? Put your logo behind every one of these gals.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, it was clearly something that was just like. We have to, like, somehow figure out a reason for why these women are all in the.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Like, I don't think the brand approached them. I think they were like, please, Gracie Liu bei, Please have an impression.

[Emily Walker]

And I think Gracie Lou is just like, a girl in, like, Arizona.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I think. No, I think she's in Utah. I think that was her yard. I think that was her front yard.

[Emily Walker]

And she was like, gracie Lou on there.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Come on over, y' all. Yeah, show us Gracie Lou. And so they're at this party dressed like cowboys, and they're all walking up in their hot little cowboy outfits. And the big thing of it all is that Miranda is. Now, did you happen to deep dive on Miranda's TikTok circa nine months ago?

[Emily Walker]

I was trying to piece the timeline there because it said she's 26 currently, as they were shooting this.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah.

[Emily Walker]

And the scandal happened, or it seems like what the. Whatever was happening was like, what, 20, 20 ish.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I think she's, like, 22 years old, 23 years old, when this. When the Mormon TikTok swingers thing exploded. Yeah.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. So she's like. I don't know. I just. I just kept being like, she's so young.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

But you have to, like, remind yourself of that because they have so much makeup on and they look stunning.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Like, it's hard to remember that she's a 26 year old. Because, listen, you and I at 26, I just. Nary an extension to be found. Like, they're doing 26 different.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, no, we were, like, you know, straightening our hair to death and switching the same dress from Forever 21 back and forth, back and forth.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And, like, Forever 21 had, like, a sparkly eyeshadow palette and that the sparkles didn't stay on your eyes. And we wore that.

[Emily Walker]

You get an eye infection. Fine. Just throw more makeup on.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, this is like. They just have so much makeup that it's hard to remember that they're little babies. Also, they've had to grow up too fast in a culture.

[Emily Walker]

They were like, totally.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

The girls I went to middle school with when we moved away, I was 13. And I remember being like, all my friends are gonna be married in four years. So, like, my best friend was married at 17. Like, you know, Michaela in the show gets married at 16. So they do grow up a little bit fast, but. Okay. So for anyone who doesn't know, the big scandal of season one is that they blew up on TikTok because Taylor went on TikTok and was like, hey, guys, it's Mom Talk. I know we're all Mormons, but we have been swinging. We're doing swinger stuff. Let me tell you everything. And the original couple she was swinging with, which is Miranda and her husband Chase.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Were not on the show.

[Emily Walker]

Correct.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

So she's like, it's Mom Talk, y' all. And anyone who'd really been watching Mom Talk was like, who are all of these women?

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Who you? Who you?

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Some of them were there, like Jen and Whitney. But, like, it felt like a very thing. And they were faking that these were the swingers when the only swinger left was Taylor. But then they were, like, basing the show on that. So you knew all that.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay. So Miranda and Taylor went back and forth on Tick Tocks, where Taylor was like, they didn't want you to be on the show. And Miranda's like, I didn't want to be on the show. I said, no. And she's like, you would love to be on the show. And, like, you're afraid. And Miranda was like, I never wanted to be on this show. I'll never come on this show. It disgusts me. I don't need the money. You guys are stupid. She found a new friend to do some dances with for a couple months, and lo and behold, here she is.

[Emily Walker]

Here she is, episode one, scene one. Walking through the door.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah.

[Emily Walker]

Or the hay bales, as it were.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And here's a question for you. So Housewives, you know, this shows, like, kind of Housewives, Kardashian esque. They'll have them fight at, like, a dinner. There's objects, there's furniture around. The amount of times they sit these women in a knitting circle and say, go at it. The cameras. There's not even enough cameras to get footage of all of them. Because they're in a complete circle.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Who's doing that? Do you think restaurants are saying no to them in Utah?

[Emily Walker]

Probably. I think that's part of it. They also probably want to drink. I think they probably want alcohol. They want them a little lubricated and lean on Housewives. Well, I think in Housewives, yes. But I think here they're probably not allowing the girls into restaurants because they want to have access to alcohol like that. The Mormon girls, I mean, because I think they are drinking.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Some of them.

[Emily Walker]

Some of them are.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Jesse's drinking. But, like, I. Especially on camera. A lot of them are not, like, drinking. Yeah, no, no. I'm saying, like, why are they not lubricated? Why are they not Having a snack. Why are we not around things they can throw? Like, why?

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I feel like restaurants in Utah are like, we don't.

[Emily Walker]

We don't want them.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

We don't want to be a part.

[Emily Walker]

Of just the sheer amount of them. Like, they really do a great job of making sure that all the girls are in the same scene at the same time making shit happen. Whereas I feel like with housewives, those kind of big group scenes maybe happen maybe once an episode, if that. But a lot of times it's these factions kind of coming together, or there's one big event that they all go to, but then there's other people there. Whereas here it's like the event is at so and so's house, and we sit on their couch and talk in a circle. Like, that's what the event is.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Whitney got pizza and soda. Like, really? So much of this reminds me of growing up in Utah where, like, that is what you did, because you don't. We were children. But they're operating on the same rules as adults. Like, you're not going clubbing.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You're not, like, going out. You're, like, going to someone's house and, like, doing a fun activity.

[Emily Walker]

Right. And they all have young kids, so I'm sure it's just like, we all. This is.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, you gotta be at family places. Yeah. Okay, so Miranda's there, and Taylor walks in, seeing Miranda for the first time after this best friend breakup, after they used to be swingers together. Let's stop down. We're skipping ahead a little bit in the season. But also, it's been on tick tock. When you heard her Taylor say we were swingers, what did you think that meant?

[Emily Walker]

That they were all having sex with each other.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And what have we found out that swinging meant? Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back. T Mom Z. My mom texted me a selfie and she said, I need makeup help. And I said, good, because now I know what I'm getting you. For Mother's Day, I got her a bunch of products from Thrive Cosmetics. Let me just tell you what I got her. The Brilliant Eye Brightener, the Deluxe Mini Liquid Lash Volumizer Mascara. I also got her the Instant Brow Fix and two Lip Filler long wearing Plumping lip liners. I cannot recommend these products more. They're vegan, they're cruelty free. And Thrive Cosmetics donates to. To causes that really matter with every single purchase. If you just get one product, get the Brilliant Eye Brightener Mini in Stella Champagne Shimmer is my favorite shade. You're going to change your eye game. It also has over 40,000 five star reviews. So don't just take my word for it. Discover your new trusty favorite from Thrive Cosmetics. Luxury beauty that gives back. You can get an exclusive 20% off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com glamorous that's Thrive Cosmetics. C A U S E M E T-I C S.com glamorous for 20% off your first order. Go celebrate your team Momsy and also get some for yourself. This episode is brought to you by Enterprise Mobility.

[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay, let's dive back into the episode. When you heard her Taylor say we were swingers, what did you think that meant?

[Emily Walker]

That they were all having sex with each other.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And what have we found out?

[Emily Walker]

That swinging meant that they played spin the bottle and kissed like repressed children.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Like, they would put on blindfolds. They'd have to guess whose husband they were kissing. The girls kissed once for them.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

But there's two things that happen that Taylor had spoken about on a podcast I listened to that.

[Emily Walker]

These seem to be the kind of the big issues of, yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Of like what Maria.

[Emily Walker]

The. The dissolution of the friendship kind of was between the swingers.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yes. So Taylor called it soft swinging because. And what they're all stuck on.

[Emily Walker]

I forgot about soft swinging.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah. What they're all stuck on. What the big drama is is that Taylor said they were swingers. Soft swingers. All of them who were swinging. There were six of them total, three couples. The other two couples were like, no, we were not swinging. Taylor's a lying blasphemous. Or we are good Mormons still. And Taylor's like, but we all just, like, swang together. And now Miranda's back and they're like, so what happened? Is Taylor a liar or were you swingers? And. And Miranda, it's really hard for her to admit that, like, the kissing happened and the egregious things that happened were that they all had sex in the shower at the same time with their husbands. So three women, three husbands. I think this was what happened in Mexico, because that feels like where they would have a shower big enough.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. Of course. For such an Activity Mexico, known for their enormous sex showers.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I'm thinking like an outdoor Airbnb type of thing.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. When I have sex with my husband, with other friends, we tend to be. Yeah. In an Airbnb.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Oh, yeah. You want it to be at someone else's house, not your own, Right.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, of course.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That's nice. Good. Good. Hot tip. And then the other thing they did, which is that they had sex with their own husbands, but in bed next to each other, Right?

[Emily Walker]

Yes. Yes. Okay. But then I think the thing that we learned, too, in this conversation was. Or maybe this was later, or Taylor was talking about it, but that Taylor had gone up to Miranda's husband, Chase, and said that she had a sex dream about him. Yeah. And that. That in turn, made.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Led him on.

[Emily Walker]

Led Chase on. Miranda's ex husband. And he then said he confessed to her at the gym that he had feelings for her.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah. And so basically, Taylor and Miranda are best friends. Miranda's husband has caught feelings for Taylor. Taylor caught feelings for the other guy in the group.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And then there's something so dark that is not being shown on screen. Maybe later in the season, which is that Taylor gets wasted and Chase goes to, like, make sure she's safe or something, and Taylor fully blacked out. They have sex. And the idea of, like, whether consent was involved is, like, really shaky and not something Taylor can explore, but that is Chase, Miranda's ex husband. So that's how dark it got.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

So at the hay bales, they're like, miranda, what's the truth? And then, like, kind of nothing happens. Taylor just sweetly sits next to her.

[Emily Walker]

Yes. But also the other girl. I do think it's important to talk about. The other girls in Mom Talk kind of don't like Miranda. Like, they're kind of taking Taylor's side because they made, you know, Miranda and her ex made Taylor look like a liar and all this stuff. And also, I think they feel like she had her motivation for being around or hanging out with Mom Talk again, AKA the show.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Exactly.

[Emily Walker]

To be on the show.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And why do you think she came back? Because coming back means sort of leaving the church or being embarrassed at the church. You're gonna admit that Taylor wasn't lying, that you wear a swinger. She and Chase have now divorced. They both have moved on and have new partners. That's. It's just so fast.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And then she says yes and comes on the show. And to me, I wrote, oh, my God, Fame More Yummy, Good than God, where it was like, wait, Fame's available. Nevermind.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, I think that's the theme because that it resonates with. Which we'll get into. But Jen and Zach as well, that this, that mom talk, AKA fame, influencer money clout.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I guess it's influencer. It's definitely influencer money and it's fame.

[Emily Walker]

Because they can't be making that much from the show itself.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

No. But they brilliantly feed this show right back into their tick tock.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You can like run ads. It's the best way to do it.

[Emily Walker]

Which is side note, my favorite part of the show is the transitions of their little tiktoks.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Because it's just.

[Emily Walker]

It literally you'll go from like gut wrenching scene to like a dumb TikTok of them, like slapping each other with tortillas. And you're like, what world are we living in right now? Like, it's such a juxtaposition.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And it's something they failed in season one. Because in season one, like the whole show went by before I realized that Whitney had done the RSV baby dance in hospital.

[Emily Walker]

Same. I was like, wait, that would have painted an entirely different picture.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Entirely. So I'm so glad they're getting better.

[Emily Walker]

At being like, let's remember what they're putting out there.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And while they are clearly faking whatever the idea of mom talk is as like a premise for this show, I'm like, stronger, better. Like, this is how we integrate monetize ads. The conversation is in conversation with the conversation.

[Emily Walker]

Right? Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I'm for it.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And yeah. I mean, I was just like, whoa. First off, my thought was it truly is Taylor's version.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

It is Taylor's version of soft swinging. So Taylor Swift. Get on it, girl. That one's just right there for you. And Miranda's not ready to talk. And that's kind of it. Okay. Is the last thing I'll say. Hypothetically, no consequences. You're on a vacay in Mexico. You've all. You've all split the Airbnb.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Group, group, shower sex.

[Emily Walker]

Hell no.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I'm a no to shower sex. Just because it's just so much standing.

[Emily Walker]

I mean, if it's just me and my husband.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

No. Group.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. No. Group.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

No. See, I'm. I'm also a no to me and my husband. I'm like, no.

[Emily Walker]

I love. I love shower sex.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Really?

[Emily Walker]

I do. I don't. I don't know. I think it's just the, the slipperiness.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I'm like, I'm like hot tub. I'm In. But shower is just like. I don't know, there's just not like, what am I gonna hold on to? Like, there's just a lot to think about.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

But hot tub, I'm back. Yeah, okay.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, maybe not shower full on sex.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

But shower and not the same. Okay, second question. Right circumstances, right time. Hot couple having sex in bed next to another couple having sex.

[Emily Walker]

Here's the thing. My. I know for a a fact my husband would not entertain a single part of this at all. So I just can't even let my mind go there because I.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You're a good trad wife.

[Emily Walker]

Because I know he would never. He just. That would never be what excites him in a way, sexually. So I feel like. But if it were just me and some random people. Yeah, probably.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I think it sounds so hot. Yeah, I was like. She said that. I was like, yeah, yeah, that sounds really sexy.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, it's like live porn.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, but. But you're with your partner and like that. Yeah. So I'm like, I think this was probably some of the hottest swinging that's ever happened, even though it's pretty tame because nothing is allowed. We're being so bad.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Oh, my God, we're being so bad. We can't. Oh, okay, here's what we'll do. Book of Mormon says. Book of Mormon says nothing about your husband. Next to you. Your husband says nothing about group shower sex.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

This is the thing with them soaking, right? Soaking is a real thing.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That also sounds pretty hot. You're like, oh, no, I can't.

[Emily Walker]

I think we, I think we all experience soaking. Just. It wasn't soaking. It was just like a drunk guy being like, am I in? And you're like, yep, there we go. You know, like, so I think in a way, we all know what soaking is. So in that regard, I'm kind of like your aunt.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I'm like, I'm like, if it includes like, oh, no, we're so bad. Then I'm like, oh.

[Emily Walker]

But then cut to like his best friend, like, shaking the bed on the end, I think.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, that one seems hard to believe, but yeah. So soaking is real, but it's really. The whole show is about, like, well, God didn't call this out in the book, so I guess it's okay.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And the idea that, like, we never had sex with someone else is something that Miranda's like, really holding on to because it's what makes her still in the part of her heart that cares about being a good Mormon.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Believe that she is still being a good Mormon.

[Emily Walker]

100. Yeah. It's so crazy to see these people so. Because, yeah, I think they just kind of make up their own rules as they go. Like, I think there's just, like an underlying guilt, but it's like, this is fine. This is not fine.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

But I. I think. I think they're really specific rules, though. I mean, they really are. It's like Book of Mormon said nothing.

[Emily Walker]

But literally all you need is, like, one other person being like, it's not in the Book of Mormon. Right. And you're like, it's not.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Let's do it.

[Emily Walker]

You know, like, that's all it takes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You're so right. So kind of nothing happens there. But then the next story is season one. Taylor's whole thing was like, dakota, did you hook up with another girl after we had already met and started dating? Dating in this and having sex.

[Emily Walker]

I think that was the biggest part of it. Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And have this gray area when cheating happened where technically they weren't together. But he does lie about it to Taylor. And because she was sleeping with him, she was like, I can't believe you were dating other girls at the same time. And he's like, but I wasn't. And oh, my God, last season when she was like, I wanna. I want you to know, if I ever find out that you're lying to me, like, it is over and you are dead to me. And I said, careful, Taylor, because, yeah, he. You're gonna find out that.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And you're gonna have to. So hold up on that. So.

[Emily Walker]

God.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

What's the girl's name?

[Emily Walker]

Jenna.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Jenna. Every woman on the show. It's like 31 shades of Baskin, Robin's blonde.

[Emily Walker]

I know every shade of blonde you've.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Ever seen in your life.

[Emily Walker]

Jenna. And no shade to Jenna, if she's listening. But she's, like, just a little bit less hot than all the moms.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That's right.

[Emily Walker]

And so I think she's like. She's just kind of like, I'm Jenny. Like, you know, like, she's just kind of hanging out over there. And she's like a gorgeous girl, but in the context of these girls, it's like, she doesn't have extensions. She's not, like fully beat. She doesn't have, like a spray tan.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Walker]

She seems like a. She's like a normal person.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

She doesn't have that influencer money.

[Emily Walker]

Correct.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, exactly. But very. Girls. Girl goes to Macy's house. They're all Meeting at Macy's house. Because that's Macy's role in the show, which is to just be around, but in a nice way.

[Emily Walker]

But she also kind of wants to be the leader too, but she can't.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Because she's not willing.

[Emily Walker]

She ain't the personality either.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

No, I think she has the personality. She's not willing to be messy.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Or raw.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

She wants to do it from like a kind. Like she really is class president.

[Emily Walker]

Yes. Yeah, I get that vibe for sure. But you can tell she's like this. In her mind, she is the surrogate leader. Like, she's like. Yeah, yeah. Because Taylor's kind of a show. So she knows.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

She's like the put together mom. Yes. And so basically, coming to my house, Jenna is going to tell you everything that happened with Dakota and Taylor. You can listen. We'll all be here in my very Utah living room. I don't know if you noticed, but lots of things like took me back to childhood and having a Halloween themed wreath on the door really sent me back to Utah.

[Emily Walker]

Well, you got to have a wreath for every holiday, honey.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Every holiday has a special specialty themed wreath. I think this state is single handedly keeping Michaels in business.

[Emily Walker]

Absolutely.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

So basically what she always suspected, what we at Rome always kind of knew.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

What? Dakota, Such an idiot. Why did he think he could pull this off?

[Emily Walker]

Okay, but also, really quick, did Dakota get hotter?

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I said, I swear to God, if Emily says this man is hot, I'm gonna. I'm gonna ram this microphone into my head till I pass out. I cannot believe you. I cannot know. He did not get hotter. He got way worse.

[Emily Walker]

I don't know. There's like.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And you, like, he got greasier, he got sadder.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, there's something about. Right. I literally have a note that's like, Dakota hotter Question mark? No, I know, I know.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

No, let's just say you are on record on this podcast. You've done two episodes, all right, saying Jack White is hot, stand by it, and now Dakota.

[Emily Walker]

Okay, I ain't mad at it.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I'm.

[Emily Walker]

If I had to, you know, have sex with Dakota and Jack White's somebody next to me, I'm pretty happy, girl.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

So, okay, fair. That's not my quartet. But maybe I'll find someone else in the episode that I found hot.

[Emily Walker]

But yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Why did Dakota think he could pull this off? Like, you know what I mean? Like, he knew that Taylor was searching for the lie that Macy runs something called Confessions on her Instagram story. But somehow the confessions are Anonymous. And listen, I use Instagram stories all the time. This has got to be like a third party plugin.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

When you put the question box up on Instagram stories, you know who sends.

[Emily Walker]

Yes, correct.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

So what app is she using? Where on Instagram stories, she asked for confessions and they're anonymous.

[Emily Walker]

She's lied to everyone and said, I can't tell.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Why are we all believing this?

[Emily Walker]

Because there's no way. Because, like, same thing would happen with, like, Dumois. I feel like, like, people are just sending shit and then they're like, anon, please. But you're still seeing who the sender.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah. Oh, Dumont Dumois could. Let's be clear. Dumont could have been fact checking this whole time, and instead they did a non.

[Emily Walker]

So, yeah. So I don't think there's any fact checking or anything. I think, and I think she probably does know.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Of course she knows. And also, it's gonna come up again this season. I saw on a preview that she's gonna be like, I got a confession. And it's like, would you stop being a journalist and stop start being in the show? What are you doing? Getting background work for storylines.

[Emily Walker]

She's working her ass.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I got a confession that your husband cheated.

[Emily Walker]

She will make this show a success.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay, okay, listen, we're all doing our part. Okay? So Taylor gets handed Jenna's phone. And I mean, I'm gonna meme the out of this. Imagine being handed the phone and she starts holding up two phones. Her phone with her messages to Dakota circa two years ago. Jenna's phone with Jenna's messages to Dakota circa two years ago. And she's comparing timelines, text messages, styles as to these two women he was both hooking up with the same week.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. Would, like, leave one's place and going to the other also? I just love that, like, Taylor would be, like, looking, looking, looking, and then be like, what happened the night of August 3rd? And then, like, to remember from two years ago, what I did on August 3rd would be absurd to me.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I could do it.

[Emily Walker]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And now I couldn't do it on a random date. I could do it if it involved a man cheating on me. Emily did this not. And you have my permission. Did this not kind of make you think of me?

[Emily Walker]

Oh, I, I, that's all it says in my nose is like a. This is so Chelsea coded. Like, and, but also, it's, like, so pleasing to, like, see it happen. Like, yeah, it's really soothing. Felt so good to know that you're with a Piece of. And then to get such great confirmation that they're a piece of.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

There's one phone in each hand. Check and receive seats. And just making emotional battle scars in your heart.

[Emily Walker]

Oh, yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

As you scroll.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

This is so intensely. Very, thankfully, I will say a younger version of me. I was like this. I felt pain that I had never gotten both phones in my hand. I felt jealous jealousy. Okay, this feels like a good time to take a quick break.

[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

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[Emily Walker]

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[Chelsea DeVontes]

Fab Metro with T mobile in the past six months tax supplies. Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation. So here's something really sad but that I'm gonna do. But I know you picked up on it. So Taylor has some dad issues, which famously Emily and I have come together on.

[Emily Walker]

We share as well.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And basically Taylor's dad abandoned her. She met him once. He said, hey, what's up, kid?

[Emily Walker]

Yes, up kid.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That's it. That's all. Her mom then remarried a man she calls her dad, who is called dad in the show. Very much stepdad energy. If I've ever seen stepdad energy, it is Jeremy.

[Emily Walker]

Jeremy is a great. Yep.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

He's gonna be such a monster in the next episode.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And Taylor has a lot like it was. It's so sad to me how, how simple it is because when you're feeling pain, it feels so complex. But watching Taylor, it's like, yep, your dad didn't choose you and now you're holding two phones because your life is gonna make or break on Whether Dakota wanted to you or her. Because dad.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Never said hello.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. Yeah. Because dad was not around and he didn't care. But also, this is not her first go around. She was married before this.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah. But that I do feel, like, specific to this LDS culture, which, like, I don't speak for all of it, and this is very different than what I grew up with. But, like, they go into these marriages so young.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

It's like they were d. Someone.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You know what I mean? It's like she was married, but, like, because she had to be. She was a literal child.

[Emily Walker]

But that. I think that's what it is. Like, it felt like watching a 16 year old girl, like, go through a breakup and realize that, like, a guy can, like, be mean to her for the first time. Like, it was really. And I'll say this, I was in therapy the other day, and my therapist and I were talking about how basically, like, a lot of the younger generations, like my mom, my dad, for example, like, they kind of went straight from being in their family home to being married and having their own home. And they never got that period of, like, figuring out who you are, like, what colleges or all of that, just to be on your own, have friends, all of these things. And so you never really grow up and you repeat the same patterns that you did when you were a child, that you just keep repeating them over and over again because you never really, like, learn that about yourself. And that's just what I see with Taylor, Frankie Powell.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

It's just.

[Emily Walker]

It's like a little girl who just never learned her lesson is just like, wants it so bad, wants to just be adored and wants the fairy tale so bad and just goes about it in a horrible way each time and.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Has so much trauma. And also another weird podcast I listened to, like, she talked about, like, wanting to be good when she wants to be a good person. And she would go to church and that would be the maddest. She would come home and have, like, ra. Panic attacks. And she was like, but I don't know, why was that God punishing me? And from the outside, you're like, no, something's happening at church.

[Emily Walker]

Right?

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And yeah, she just had. She doesn't have any tools. She has a newborn baby in her arms and she's like, scream, crying. And we find out that Dakota was, again, no sex, but hand stuff, mouth stuff. They went to the bedroom. That was a big detail.

[Emily Walker]

And yeah, Jenna seems also, like, very Mormon and very, like, I had a lot of guilt about doing hand stuff.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah.

[Emily Walker]

Like, as a.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

All these women have to, like, admit in order to be a good friend, have to admit that they, like, did hand stuff. As a fully adult woman in your 20s, the only thing embarrassing about any of this is that it was with Dakota. Other than that, none of the sex stuff should have.

[Emily Walker]

Go, Jenna, go.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And so, yeah, then Taylor starts crying with the rage of a thousand dadless daughters.

[Emily Walker]

My God, you know, I'd be a millionaire if I had a nickel. Every time I held a Chelsea devontez as she cried like that, just. Just a full body. Let go. Cry over some dumb guy. Idiots. Just some idiot. Just a full body.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I mean, like, it. It's like, because, I mean, listen, on this podcast, I think I. I think I'm coming across as like a pretty put together lady. And when I reference my trauma, people are like, yeah, sure, but like, it was so dark, y' all. Like when I was Taylor, when I got, like, alcohol in my system, we.

[Emily Walker]

Called it wine mouth ugly cry.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, we're just like, basically just like all the rage of your life is flailing out your body as you run through the streets kicking over traffic cones because a man seven inches shorter than you didn't text you back.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Good times. So the last big story is Zach. Last we saw Recessive Gene Affleck, he was going off to medical school.

[Emily Walker]

Toe of a man, just an absolute walking show.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

His face looks like the little splattered egg and substance that the movie ends on, where it's just like this blob and there's like some eyes in there and it. But it's like, has no. Like, if you try to draw this, man, your pencil wouldn't make the chin line. Like, there'd just be eyes and a nose.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And then he just disappears. He's. Thank God he cut his hair.

[Emily Walker]

Oh, yeah, yeah, he cut that hair, honey.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Thank God he had. He had translucent. I've never seen translucent hair before. Just so blonde. It's. It's. It looked like pillow stuffing.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And it was long. There's something about him deeply repels me. Like I feel the need to give him an exorcism makeover when he comes on screen, I'm like, the power of Christ compels you to have. Oh, my God, just an iota of contour.

[Emily Walker]

A Victorian child ghost is a shade.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That's exactly right. He's a 28 year old fetus.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And he's decided he's not. He's gonna take a year off med school. I said, oh, Someone failed med school, and he wants to move back into Jen's. Sad Airbnb.

[Emily Walker]

Right. Because at this point, they've been separated.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I think they have been separated.

[Emily Walker]

Okay. I think that's true for, what, a month?

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You're right. Since. So, Yeah, a couple of weeks. Oh, my God. That means he didn't even go to the first year.

[Emily Walker]

No, he. Because they were going to go to New York, and then she said, actually he got into Arizona, so he was going to go to Arizona.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Which does make sense, because famously, on this podcast, we call Arizona Utah, too. And also that comes from someone from Arizona who called it Utah, too. So there's a big Mormon community there. That does make more sense. I don't know why they wouldn't say it on the show, but, yeah, he. Yeah, you're right. He never stepped foot in there. He just turned right back around.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. And. And gave. And again, like I was saying before, like, is the Mom Talk money that good that he's, like, willing to not go to medical school to.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah.

[Emily Walker]

I mean, support his wife's journey in mom talk.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I think that's right.

[Emily Walker]

Okay.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And, you know, last season, the big deal was, like, we are the breadwinners in this, like, patriarchal religion where women aren't supposed to be the breadwinners. But it's just so funny how easily they flip.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Because Zach was the holdout. He was the, like, I am anointed. You're a dumb. And then she made enough money. And he said, never mind.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. Something happened, I think, either. Seems like he got a lot of death threats from people.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Wait, no, no, no. Let's talk about this. He said he got 50. He said, I bet I got 50 messages from women telling me to die over what I did to Jen.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And to that, I said, women, where are we at?

[Emily Walker]

This is not.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That's not a lot of messages. What's happening here?

[Emily Walker]

Why wasn't there more of us standing up?

[Chelsea DeVontes]

We're not doing the work.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And listen, I don't want anyone to receive death messages. But, like, when you're a woman on the Internet, you get a million.

[Emily Walker]

Oh, yeah, yeah. For sure.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Men are on it. They're like, you should die.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Now, in the reverse, Zach is over here, like, I got 50 messages. I'm like, welcome to an hour of being a woman.

[Emily Walker]

Being a woman on the Internet. Yeah. Very true.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You should have had so much worse.

[Emily Walker]

No, not that I feel bad for him, but I think something scared him because he's become, like, a shell of himself. Like, he's like little cuck boy now.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I think he. Well, so it really. Sadly, he said they had really embarrassing encounters at church, so. Which is sad because churches were supposed to, like, be accepted and. But obviously this show. I mean, this show is.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

This show is so horrifying to everything Mormons hold dear and. And has a lot of, like, non Mormons, half Mormons, kind of Mormons on the show telling the world what Mormons.

[Emily Walker]

Right. Are like. Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And. But Jim was a holdout. She would sometimes wear garments. You know, she would be like, don't drink in my house. And now Zach is like, can I be on the show full time? Yeah, yeah, I think. And he said, we got really embarrassed at church. So I think he just, like, there's nowhere else for him to go.

[Emily Walker]

And again, Jen's 2024.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Jen also, listen, I'm telling you, I listened to some crazy podcasts. She was, like, homeless for a bit as a teenager. Like, she's had a hard. So was Michaela.

[Emily Walker]

Wow.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And Zach, I think, is like the good Mormon family. Like, literally when Jen said, my mom is a cleaner at the hospital where his dad works.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

So she's fighting some beautiful demons.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

But sometimes she's losing.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. And I think she. She seems, like, aimless to me. Like, I think she's just kind of like, going with the wind or what she thinks. Like, I think she went along with Zach because that's what was. She was. Had been told her whole life of, like, look, he's in the. His. The man. He has comes from money, he has the power and all of this. And I think she was fine with that until she was on the show. And I think it held a mirror. And then I think every other woman around her was like, the way he treats you is disgusting. And now she's, like, trying to, like, posture as this, like, strong kind of in charge woman. But I still don't think she knows what she's doing. Of course.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And she's. Jimmy, she's a child. I feel really bad for Jen. Jen is, like, constantly manipulated by him and then later her friends. And also, she's a people pleaser.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Which means she's doing her own form of manipulation. But it's coming out of, like, don't be mad at me. Don't be mad at me.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And it's not working.

[Emily Walker]

Right. Well, it causes you to lie. It causes you to then just say whatever you need to say in the moment. So I think with Jen, she is so much of a people pleaser. It then, in turn, makes her lie to everyone around her or fib the truth or say whatever needs to be said so that she's not in trouble or she's not the one who's being regarded as the bad person in the situation. And I think that's where she's going to get into a lot of trouble.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And she is starting to find her voice.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And Zach, I mean, they are both attempting to undo an entire lifetime of. Of patriarchy in their bones.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And I'm like, I wish it was like the Hunger Games. You could, like, send him a tool. You said I'm like a game. You're like, oh, yeah. Like, you both. I do. I do think there's a piece of each of them that are, like, trying and want this, but I'm. But I'm just from afar. I'm like, y' all not gonna make it.

[Emily Walker]

No, they're not gonna make it. And that's. It's simply age, I think, too. It's just like, yeah, you're. You're on your second baby. If your marriage. Like, if you're in this deep already and you're 24, you're not even who you're gonna be. Like, in five years, you might be a totally different person in 10 years.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You're for sure already raising children and dealing with a marriage. Like, you're doing so much. You're doing so much.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Well, that story's sad because she takes him back, and he brought what? Probably the cheapest bouquet at Walgreens. I'm like, bro, you got to take the sticker off.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You couldn't even hit a Whole Foods try and get that ground. You didn't even get the big bouquet.

[Emily Walker]

That's so true.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That is the lowest amount of effort. I said, do not let him back in this house with those CVS flowers.

[Emily Walker]

But that's what the whole scene felt fake. Like, I think he was already there.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah. And I do think they do a lot. The two of them do a lot of, like. And I mean, listen, producers are like, you're gonna come back in and ask for her back. And they go, okay.

[Emily Walker]

Was the. The ketamine scene. Was that in this episode as well? Or is that episode two?

[Chelsea DeVontes]

That is this episode.

[Emily Walker]

Because that was also.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

This is another Mormon loophole where Wild Joseph, Brigham Young, none of them knew about ketamine, did not put it in the book, of course. And so now they're like, it's okay to, like. There's literally ketamine stations where they do ketamine therapy?

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. Have you ever done ketamine therapy before?

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Well, let's see. Is ketamine therapy what we saw on screen, which is just do ketamine and then talk. Because that can't be what that's supposed to be.

[Emily Walker]

I'm pretty sure, like, for. I've never done it. I've had friends who've done it. And this, like, one service is, like, you meet with a therapist, they then, like, give you, like, a playlist as you take it. You, like, take it, and then you talk to the therapist after your trip, and you kind of, like.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

So maybe we didn't see that part.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay. I. I think I've done ketamine once as a kid. It's actually a debate between me and my mom.

[Emily Walker]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

We won't go into that.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

But no, I've never done ketamine therapy. Have you done ketamine?

[Emily Walker]

No, never.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

It's. I mean, I. I'm happy for them since they seem to have not many outlets for growth.

[Emily Walker]

Right.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I hope ketamine works the way some good shrooms do. I've heard it.

[Emily Walker]

I'm.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I've heard it can.

[Emily Walker]

Sure. And I think that, like, again, every. Like, every couple should be able to be like, let's do edibles and watch a movie and giggle. Like, that should be like, a weekly thing that you just, like, get to do to have fun with your partner. And for them, it's like this big.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Thing, like, unearthing emotions that have been, like, forbidden into the back of their souls.

[Emily Walker]

And also, I just love her big false eyelash. Like, she can barely keep her eyes open because she's still a little high from the ketamine.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And they had eye masks on, which was really shoving those.

[Emily Walker]

So she's just talking in her. Like, she's just got, like, spiders on her face.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

It's just so. It's so. It's so insane to pretend you are upholding Mormon values, of course. But that you can do. That's why. Remember when they would all get Botox to get the laughing gas? Because it wasn't against. Technically, it wasn't against religion.

[Emily Walker]

That's what I'm saying. I'm like. They're just making this up as they go.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah.

[Emily Walker]

We're like. One person says it's okay, and they're like, yeah, it is okay.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Yeah, we're gonna do ketamine therapy. Oh, in those massage chairs from, like, the mall.

[Emily Walker]

Look, I get. I used to get acupuncture from a guy who just had six Recliners in a room in a strip mall. So I. I'm not gonna judge. Okay.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And so were you seated for the acupuncture?

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. You. You kick back in that little recliner and. But everyone else, that's like. He's servicing, like, six people at a time.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

How much was it?

[Emily Walker]

It was $25.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Emily, you let him put needles in?

[Emily Walker]

Oh, yeah. And I'd do it again. I loved. But SA. My acupuncturist, Dr. Mike, he did go into cyber security, so he can no longer be an acupuncturist.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And he called himself Dr. Mike.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You ever look any of those?

[Emily Walker]

Absolutely. No.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You know, who. Who. Who. Who am I to judge? Been to some real weirdos myself. That being said, when it comes to acupuncture, your. Your girl needs a $50 minimum just so I can believe the. The needles are cleaned and new.

[Emily Walker]

Okay. I never had any issues.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Well, you do find Dakota hotter, so, you know, maybe we should do some ketamine therapy.

[Emily Walker]

Absolutely.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Oh, my gosh. Let's do it. Okay. Let's go to Utah. I do want to go to one of their soda places. Okay. Last thing we need to say.

[Emily Walker]

This is.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Of all the things we just said, I think this is what got me the most. When Taylor's mom walked on camera.

[Emily Walker]

I'm so glad you brought this up.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I said, she is risen. She has been born again.

[Emily Walker]

This woman has snatched back her face. Skin so tight.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Nose job.

[Emily Walker]

Full. Full. Full facelift.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Full facelift extensions. This is a petite gal.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I'm gonna guess like a five, three. And I think the extensions are 60 inches. I think. I think they're half her body length.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

It seemed as if Taylor was maybe seeing her mom, because, again, there hasn't been that much time. So that mom sees herself on screen.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Says, get me into the swan. They still doing the swan.

[Emily Walker]

I need everything. Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And she's. The bruises have just healed in time for the cameras to be up. I think Taylor's seen her for the first time.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. Or her. Her Instagram handle Mama Bear. Tp.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Tp. Like, just think things over just a little bit, guys. But, yeah.

[Emily Walker]

Because I was really trying to get a gander at her old face, and it was hard to find.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I mean, that was not there anymore.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. She's been reincarnated to go back to the old for. To season one to. To even try and get a glance at her, and it's pretty stark.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I. I'm horrified at this moment that she saw that season and she Said, I just watched my daughter get arrested for throwing chairs at Dakota. With children around and many other things. I know I need to look better on camera. She Kardashian herself.

[Emily Walker]

Yes, yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

But it's. It's horrifying. Like, it's not a. It's. You're not like, wow, pretty. You're like, all you see is plastic surgery.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. Like, she can't. She still can't, like, move half her face. It seems like, where. She's like, yeah, she wants to look.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Like all the girls. She's like. I'm like, now I'm in mom talk. And it's like, you're the worst mom.

[Emily Walker]

Oh, my God. I know. She's just an awful mom, too. I mean, she's horrible.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

She's like. She's like, mom, Dakota lied to me and cheated on me and then continuously lied for the year. And she's like, ah, now, Taylor, give marriage a chance. Be a good wife. You have a kid now. Go back to him. And it's like, did you not. I'm sorry. Did they, like, take out your ears when you went under?

[Emily Walker]

And I think what this is. Is, again, something that I deal with with my own mom is like, her. I think my mom carries so much guilt that, you know, the. Like, that the relationship with my biological father isn't good or that she. Who she decided to have a child with was like, a bad guy who, you know, didn't stick around or whatever. And so to try to retroactively, like, fix that, it's like, let me. Let's make sure that you're so good and you have this great person and blah, blah, blah, and everything's fine. And I feel like that's what she. That's what that mama bear is doing is. I think she's. She's trying to fix her daughter. So bad of, like, see, you're not broken. You're not one of those girls who has daddy issues. That's not who you are.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Like, yeah, see, you have a dad. Jeremy's your dad.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

We're gonna get into it in the next episode.

[Emily Walker]

Great.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Jeremy's the worst man on earth. Sorry, Mama Bear. TP you did it twice.

[Emily Walker]

And did Jeremy get hotter? No, I'm kidding. I'm joking. I'm joking.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You say, are you joking?

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

She doesn't mean it. She thinks he got on her also, like, just think of, like, your partner goes and gets a top. A top to tails lift.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Do you not feel weird because, like, you've lived all this, like, you live 20 years together, and now your wife literally is on, like, facial. Like, she, her iPhone probably didn't open when she looked at it. Like, it's not the same face. Like, do you not feel weird about that?

[Emily Walker]

I don't think a straight man. I think if a straight man thinks that, that their wife is going to get hotter. I don't think that they're like, oh, man. I think he's probably like, hell yeah. Look at my wife.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I'm not gonna go with straight man. I'm gonna go with toxic man.

[Emily Walker]

Okay.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Who lives in Utah.

[Emily Walker]

Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Who is also straight. Who is also serving stepdad energy under the label.

[Emily Walker]

Dad. Yes. Yes.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

You're right. He probably don't give a.

[Emily Walker]

No, I think he's happy. It's like when my step. My. You know, I like when my stepdad, like, when my mom loses weight, my stepdad's like, look at my hot wife. Like, they love it, you know? Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Oh, yeah. I don't like that.

[Emily Walker]

Hey, look, it's my burden. Scary.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

It's a curse you gotta. It's a curse you gotta break. Yeah. I don't like. I don't like that.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah. So I think that that's, That's.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

I, I. Okay. I saw. I have a. A massage therapist who. I don't think he's listening. Hope not. And one time he was like, you look like you've lost weight. And out of my mouth, I go, don't ever fucking say that to me again. And then I was like, I can never see you again.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay. Because obviously, yeah, like, it's a massage. You're touching my body, but I'm like, in my. In my head, I have to believe, like, you're not those thoughts and feelings. I'm not being perceived in any way.

[Emily Walker]

Yeah.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

And also, like, oh, it was horrifying. And he was. It was six recliner chairs in a circle.

[Emily Walker]

No, I'm just kidding, Dr. Mike.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay, so this is the end of episode one coverage. We are going to cover episode two, and I'm maybe gonna spoil some of episode three in our next episode. I don't know if we're gonna do the whole season. I don't know if Emily and I are gonna be back. I think it's gonna depend on your reaction to this episode. Listen. Normally recovering books and viral articles, but I do think this show is deeply speaking to culture.

[Emily Walker]

Absolutely.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Whether you like it or not. No, it's taking a little hammer to culture. There's a big trad wife movement right now. This feeds into all of it. And so I really wanted to talk about it. Emily, tell everyone where they can find you and follow you until you come back, literally in six days for the next episode.

[Emily Walker]

You can find and follow me on my Instagram. Emily Joy Walker. No. Emily Joy. Once. Three, two. I think. I don't know. I don't.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Oh, my God. This is incredible. Yeah. You don't know it. You're better than Instagram.

[Emily Walker]

I guess I'm better than everyone. I'm, you know, working on things. Hopefully things are going to be put out there in the future, but right now I have, you know, we're just plugging away.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

We're just recording episodes. I'm about the secret lives of Mormon wives in my office.

[Emily Walker]

I'm sucking down all the Mormon content I can get right now. That's what my life.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Oh, I like that. For you.

[Emily Walker]

Thanks.

[Chelsea DeVontes]

Okay, see you guys soon. A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks, but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm, where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now, you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code Trash. That's right, Trash. T R A S H. Two audiobooks for the price of one at Libro fm. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.