← Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
That hot Heated Rivalry, more Olivia Nuzzi??, and Mormon Wives' Dark Turn
00:52:52
Loading summary
Transcript171 lines
- [00:01]
Chelsea Devontez
Think your lashes have hit their limit? Discover limitless length and full volume with Maybelline's Sky High Mascara. The Flex Tower Brush bends to volumize and extend every single lash from root to tip. And the lightweight bamboo infused formula makes lashes feel weightless. Now in eight bold shades so you can take your lashes to new heights every day. Visit maybelline.com to shop Sky High Mascara now.
- [00:26]
Christina Lopez
Friday, Avatar Fire and Ash arrives in theaters. I am the fire.
- [00:31]
Chelsea Devontez
Get your 3D tickets now for the greatest chapter of the biggest saga in history. Whatever happens, protect this family. Critics rave. It's by far the best Avatar movie. If your father and I do not return, you go as far and as fast as you can. Movies don't get any bigger than this.
- [00:52]
Christina Lopez
Avatar Fire and Ash, rated PG 13.
- [00:54]
Chelsea Devontez
Get tickets now.
- [00:56]
Christina Lopez
Oh, Chelsea, you know what I haven't been able to get out of my head?
- [00:58]
Chelsea Devontez
What?
- [00:59]
Christina Lopez
Bad things happen when you hear my name. It's like in a worm. Like I. I get. Thank you for that.
- [01:05]
Chelsea Devontez
I'm sorry. It's a brain worm. Yes, the RFK brain worm. Things happen. 16. Oh, my God. Let's play at the beginning of the podcast and ruin everyone's lives. Okay. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a Cookie Jar episode where we discuss all of the things that fit into the Glamorous Trash universe that didn't fit into our book and article episodes this month. And so I'm your host, Chelsea devontez. You know me. And I'm joined by our Cookie Jar co host, Christina Lopez, our podcast producer, Ch Chill Beach. No. Why are you doing this to us?
- [01:56]
Christina Lopez
Because I had to do it. I had to sit through it.
- [01:59]
Chelsea Devontez
Not only did you have to sit through that, you had to. Actually, you know what? Migrating should be. Welcome me to the podcast. Ready?
- [02:05]
Christina Lopez
Okay. And now, our guest today is host Chelsea devontez. Chelsea, welcome to the podcast.
- [02:11]
Chelsea Devontez
Your open mouths awaiting my harvest.
- [02:14]
Christina Lopez
Chelsea, you made me listen to that too. A lot.
- [02:18]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay, Christina, let's tell the people all the topics in the jar. We're gonna cover a little bit today. Unfortunately, I have Olivia newsy updates. We're gonna talk about Taylor Swift and a bunch of bots. We're gonna talk about heated rivalry, a series out of Canada that must be discussed. We're gonna talk about Lily on snl. We're recording this on Sunday. So this was last night. I do wanna bring up the P. Diddy documentary the Reckoning on Netflix. And then finally, we have to discuss an update to Cynthia Erivo's memoir and the Mormon Wives Season 3. I never spoke about Mormon Wives Season 3 because I was so busy with the film, but I got a bunch of Instagram DMs asking for it, and your open mouth awaiting my harvest.
- [03:01]
Christina Lopez
No, I will.
- [03:03]
Chelsea Devontez
By the way, if anyone is confused what I'm saying, that means you didn't listen to the Olivia Newsie episodes. And good for you. Live your lives, be free. It's an inside joke from that. Okay, Christina, let's dive into the first topic. Olivia Newsie updates.
- [03:18]
Christina Lopez
Yes, tell me.
- [03:19]
Chelsea Devontez
So a cookie sent me a dm and they said, you need to talk to Lindy west about Olivia Newsy. Because I'm over here just, like, really trying to find the humanity. I'm trying to make sense of it. Even though the book was just like. It was like a garbage truck picked me up, shook me into the trash can, and then set me back down on the street. And I was still trying to be like, maybe, maybe some of the garbage meant something. And so Lindy, who's been a guest on this podcast, who is an author I adore, turns out years ago, Olivia was in cahoots with Milo Yana Nanapoulos being like, go be a sexist hater to Lindy west and would, like, roll her eyes at things Lindy had written in her book about being trolled and being sent rape threats. And then that led me to find no less than a dozen tweets over and over again over the course of two years, from Olivia Newsy to Ann Coulter, publicly begging her to be her friend so she'd be like, ann Coulter, I love you. Please be my friend. Now, no matter who she was tweeting at, if you're tweeting at one public figure more than a dozen times with the sentence be my friend, that's its own diagnosis. The fact that it's Ann Coulter, who is just famously a fake blonde provocateur, it just puts it all into perspective. Olivia just always an opportunist, always wanting to be a provocateur. Ann Coulter notably writes books that are barely. You cannot read an Ann Coulter book. And I'm saying this with only having tried to read one, but when I worked in political comedy news, I of course picked up an Anne book. And most of Ann's books are footnotes. So she's taking, like, half sentences and half phrases from different, like, studies or works to try and cobble together this giant lie, but with supposed proof. But the proof is, like, 15 fragments per page of studies she's referencing. So it's just like footnote Footnote. Footnote, Footnote. Footnote.
- [05:18]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [05:18]
Chelsea Devontez
So I couldn't read that shit either. And she's Olivia's hero. And also on the episode, without knowing she was Olivia's hero, I was like, you know, Ann Coulter is a deadhead. And maybe Ann Coulter never became Olivia's friend because Olivia threw some deadhead shade in her book.
- [05:32]
Christina Lopez
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.
- [05:34]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah. But anyways, after. Oh, I found tweets where she's just, like, being rude to children who are obese. Like, it was. I was like, oh, my God. And these were tweets that, like, at the time she's tweeting them, she's within a year of interviewing Trump. Like, she's already finding fame in journalism and writing a lot of important pieces as she's, like, tweeting these tweets. It's in the same, like, 2015, 2016 timeline.
- [05:59]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. What does it mean that someone who ended up covering politics was so gravitated towards, like, provocateur behavior and provocateurs?
- [06:07]
Chelsea Devontez
You know, I feel ashamed that. So, you know, I started my career in comedy, satire, new shows, and was adjacent to that White House Correspondent's Dinner world for much of my writing career in the beginning. And I was always told by my bosses, who are very smart, incredible famous people themselves, that the most disgusting people on earth are this cabal of political journalists and that they were worse than Hollywood. And I think because I'm in Hollywood and Hollywood is feral, I just couldn't believe that was true. I was sort of like, to Hollywood, you're here to, like, make art and do your thing, to really invest in politics. I just sort of assumed you have to care a little bit. You have to care a little bit. But I think there's a bunch of attention seekers and power players and really fucked up people. And as you're listening, you're probably like, yeah, Chelsea, obviously. But I read a lot of political writers who clearly do care. I worked for people who care a lot.
- [07:09]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, same.
- [07:09]
Chelsea Devontez
And so I think it's easy for me to assume if you're putting yourself through the nightmare of working through the news constantly, that it is for a reason. And that reason is at least that you care a little bit. And I think for the majority of them, maybe they don't give a fuck at all. And this is just like, the easiest way to attention is to pretend you give a fuck about the world.
- [07:33]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. But it's also like centering yourself as a story. There's so many ways that journalists do not want that to ever happen.
- [07:40]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah. And you, I mean, you have a journalism degree, so this is horrifying for you as well.
- [07:44]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. Like, I think the thing that upset me most, it wasn't talked about in the episode, but, like, what she was doing was particularly egregious because it not only put into question her reporting, but the reporting of her colleagues as well. And questioning the ability and capabilities of the editors that were handling her reporting and also the content overall of the brands that she was working for, the institutions that she was working for, and also fueled speculation about the media's ability to be trusted, so.
- [08:15]
Chelsea Devontez
Which we're already struggling with. Yeah, but from the side of, like Trump really starting the fake news and sowing seeds of doubt in our journalistic institutions is how you take over a government. Right. And so he already started that. So. Yeah. To have someone who is supposed to be, quote, on our side or working for the good of the American people to truly cast true doubt into those institutions is horrific.
- [08:44]
Christina Lopez
I would even argue that some of the seeds of that distrust were even sown by Sarah Palin and that phrase, gotcha journalism. And so I think it starts even earlier than that.
- [08:55]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Media literacy has always been so important. And it goes back to my favorite prank the library pulled. I think it was NPR where they put out a study that no one reads articles anymore. They just read the headlines and consider it as truth. And then if you clicked the article, open it said, this is an April Fool's prank. Please don't repost this. And then they just watch, like, hundreds of people repost it. And so it's always been important, but now the true definition of fake news, AI news, is here. And so it's never been more important. And I think that is a segue into Taylor Swift and the bots. Christina, you. You were going in on this, so you tell us everything.
- [09:39]
Christina Lopez
So the headline for this is Taylor Swift's last album sparked bizarre accusations of Nazism. It was a coordinated attack. The sub headline reads, data analysis of social media posts painting the singer as a Trump supporter or white supremacist revealed a network of inauthentic accounts. This was written by Miles Klee of Rolling Stone. So that's kind of like the jumping point I think people ran with. And I saw this received in, like, two very extreme ways. One was that it was all bots. Every critique and criticism that happened and was shaped around the Nazi conversations. The anti racism conversations were all bots. And none of it was valid. It was all bad actors trying to cause controversy and take over social media. On the other end of the spectrum, I saw takes like Rolling Stone is just a glorified PR arm of Taylor Swift. They're closely aligned with Taylor Swift. They ranked her last album 10 out of 10. So they're in Taylor Swift's pocket. And this article and this report should be discounted because of that relationship. And I think there's some nuance between both of those takes. And I want to look at the data. First of all, I need to note that it's a what's called a white paper report. So according to Purdue University, originally the term white paper was used as shorthand to refer to an official government report indicating that a document is authoritative and informative in nature. Today, white papers have become popular marketing tools for corporations, especially on the Internet. Since many potential customers search for information on the web, Corporations use white papers to sell information or new products as solutions that would serve their customers needs. So keep that in mind when we're talking about this. It doesn't have the same level of detail or peer review that a formal research paper would have. So the company behind the report is what I think called Gudea G U D E A and the company is referred to in the Rolling Stone article as a behavioral intelligence startup. So on their website they say that Gudea gives teams early visibility into rising narratives, showing what's gaining traction, why it matters, and where the conversations are headed. So under the executive summary, the report says that the data revealed multiple conversations were happening during the period between October 4, the day after she released her album, and October 18, 2025. All these conversations included the political accusations, the symbolic interpretations of her merch and conspiracy narratives. And according to Good Day, the majority of the user engaging in these discussions behaved typically, but they found that 3.77% of users showed non typical behavior and that those users accounted for roughly 28% of the overall conversation volume in Gudea's data set during that period, which they say suggests coordinated influence. The report also notes that this activity appeared across platforms like Twitter, Slash X, Reddit, Blue sky, and TikTok, as well as what they describe as fringe ecosystems such as 4chan. And then under key findings, it does say inauthentic narratives triggered authentic conversations, and that quote, a significant insight from this data set is that the inauthentic Taylor Swift is a Nazi narrative acted as a catalyst for secondary authentic conversations comparing Swift to Kanye West. Typical users who were not engaging with conspiracy content nevertheless entered the conversation in response to the fallout created by inauthentic users.
- [13:17]
Chelsea Devontez
Right. I mean, I think what's so interesting, what's so sad is that at the time I had just come out of filming, and so I really. I wasn't clocked into a lot, and I posted something and someone responded like, are you gonna talk about Taylor Swift's new merch maybe being for white supremacists? And I was like, what have I missed? What have I missed? Yeah. And the idea that this conversation was potentially seeded by inauthentic accounts versus an actual conversation from fans looking at the merch and getting this message, and then all of a sudden, everyone has to take part in this conversation. And most of the response I got from the cookies was like, why are we even having this conversation? Even if they cared about it, even if they were like, hey, that lightning bolt actually does have a symbol with the whatever, whatever. People were like, hey, there's. There's truth to the merch that people are looking at. But on the whole, people were like, you know, with your eyes and heart, you can look at something and be like, this is really fucked up, like, what Ice is doing. And, like, we don't need to spend time on Taylor Swift's, like, secret merch. But that makes how this conversation started even sadder being that it was in manufactured in the first place.
- [14:19]
Christina Lopez
Right? So that's sort of what the implication is from the report, is that these conversations were seeded by bad actors or inauthentic accounts, or there was a thumb on the scale of the posts that were happening. And then in response, people were making authentic content around these kind of bad faith narratives and amplifying the overarching conversation. And the interesting thing is it doesn't blanketly apply to all of the criticisms that were being held of Taylor Swift. The report actually breaks it out into different buckets and how high the risk of inauthentic conversations were happening based on those buckets. So the Nazism conversation and the lightning bolt conversation had a high risk of having inauthentic accounts participating in them. The conversations around the album quality, the artistic critique and the wealth and ethical commentary, those remained, quote, stable and free from inorganic influence. So there are some medium risk. And they don't list out, like, actual numbers of, like, this percentage of inorganic influence for these buckets. They just kind of list out the buckets and do red, yellow, and green. So the cultural appropriation and AAVE debate that was happening is in the yellow cluster. But there's no percentage of, like, this percent of this conversation was inauthentic.
- [15:40]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, yeah. It's fascinating because then, you know, you're taking. By creating a fake conversation, real conversations, muddying everything. It goes back to like, you know, someone, you know, a parent and uncle arguing on Facebook about the 2016 election, and you're like, hey, you just gave 30% of your energy to a robot. There was no way you were going to change that person's mind because they are fake and therefore your energy has been wasted. Kind of comes back to this conversation of like, are you having the conversations that matter?
- [16:07]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. So the Washington Post actually just did an analysis of TikTok's algorithm and the report says we made a map showing where TikTok clusters common video topics based on watch histories provided by 1, 100 users to the washing posts for this project. And then later on in the article, they say our map, built by a simplified model of TikTok's recommender system algorithm, illustrates the platform's power to show you what you might want, and also reveals vast oceans of content you may never see and perhaps don't know exists. I think that we all have to realize that we are being funneled in these platforms to very specific bubbles. And just because we see the prominence of a discussion in a certain topic, that means that we actually might be shielded from alternative views or outside sources or other sources of that specific topic. And I think the wider takeaway I have from this is really a reminder that leftist talking points and liberal ideas are just as vulnerable to being co opted by bad actors as right wing talking points are. And who trolled Amber Heard? Episode three actually goes deeper into defining what inauthentic accounts look like. The tax that they use like copy pasta, where they'll have a specific phrase that they use several accounts to say, like, Amber Heard is a liar over across several accounts. So the thing that I was kind of confused about is that they do talk about a lot of authentic conversations happening around narratives that were falsely planted. And so then what does that mean for people who were making good faith arguments about something in a narrative that was planted by bad faith actors?
- [17:48]
Chelsea Devontez
Right, right.
- [17:50]
Christina Lopez
Who?
- [17:51]
Chelsea Devontez
This is so wild. Also, this is. This doesn't matter in any way, but is making me laugh because I got recommended a podcast that I listened to and I was like, this podcast sucks. And I went and looked at the reviews and they were all like glowing, right? And it had so many of them and all of a sudden I was like, wait a minute, all of the reviews were batched so like they'd get like 20 reviews all batched on December First. And then there's another day when 20 more reviews would come in, and I was like, oh, because they're purchased. And I'm like, God damn it. You know, like, we've all been got. So.
- [18:25]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. So the report actually breaks out day by day, the phases of, like, when the inauthentic traffic peaks. Also, recently, there was another research report that came out around this topic from the Network Contagion Research Institute in partnership with Rutgers University about how foreign accounts artificially inflated Nick Fuentes, his content that.
- [18:47]
Chelsea Devontez
But. But these are the things where just thinking critically is so important because you're like, oh, wow, there's so many people who are Nick Fuentes fans. Which, if anyone doesn't know who Nick Fuentes is, he is someone who thought Charlie Kirk was too lackadaisical and liberal, but just really honing in on, like, how much of that can be entirely fake and really digging into it. For me, my takeaway is really, like, it underlines the importance of and makes me want to dive more into what I'm already doing, which is. But, like, reading books. I really love Patreon and Substack because it's like, you know, the person putting it out. Like, I love Hunter Harris. I love gossip time. Like, if you have recommendations of, like, creators, you know, who foster communities that are also like ours, you know, where this is like, a real community of people talking, discussing. I just think it's, like, so important to make your bubble if it's going to be curated for you. Like, curate it your damn self and make sure it's intimate in ways where you are looking in the eyes of the people making it.
- [19:45]
Christina Lopez
And that's becoming even trickier now because there are ways that they can leverage AI to make digital avatars that look like real people.
- [19:53]
Chelsea Devontez
That's why I'm saying lay eyes. Yeah. I mean, you can come to our Instagram. You can see my face when it has makeup on, and when I don't have makeup on, you'll be like, that is a real person. And the same with the other communities I'm listing. Do you know what I mean of, like, really doing your research to make sure you stay in the right areas? Okay, let's talk about heated rivalry. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by McAfee. I found this great place to stay this weekend. Click on the link and book it. Oh, wow.
- [20:26]
Christina Lopez
McAfee alerted me that this site is.
- [20:28]
Chelsea Devontez
Fake and even blocked it. Cybercriminals create fake sites to steal your passwords and financial data. McAfee identifies and blocks these sites to keep you safer online so you can book your trip without worry. Learn more@mcafee.com Online Protection Ford BlueCruise Hands Free highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel, allowing you to relax and reconnect while also staying in control. Enjoy the drive in BlueCruise enabled video vehicles like the F150 Explorer and Mustang Mach E available feature on equipped vehicles. Terms apply. Does not replace safe driving. See Ford.com BlueCruise for more details. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.
- [21:21]
Christina Lopez
Listening to this podcast Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [21:49]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation now. You and Cookie Katie Rosen both messaged me. You're like, are you watching heated rivalry? Christina, you give the headline of what heated rivalry is about.
- [22:04]
Christina Lopez
Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it takes place over the course of several years. There's two professional hockey players. One works for the works. One plays for the Boston team, another plays for the Canadian team. They are both the number one and number two, top of their game. And it's a enemies to lovers kind of scenario where they are both competing for very real trophies, but also competing for each other's hearts. And it is a little bit of, you know, taking in the very real aspects of like a lack of athletes who are out and open, especially in hockey and having to deal with the closet and having to have secret and.
- [22:44]
Chelsea Devontez
It is fucking fine. This is porn. Now before you go press play, you're about to see.
- [22:49]
Christina Lopez
It's like skin and Max at best.
- [22:51]
Chelsea Devontez
I will say, okay, here's the thing.
- [22:53]
Christina Lopez
And I only these actors were born in the year 2000 and 2001.
- [22:59]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay, well, that. I don't know why you had to ruin it.
- [23:03]
Christina Lopez
I'm sorry.
- [23:04]
Chelsea Devontez
Now for everyone who was about to watch, you ruined it. You just ruined it for me. You ruined it, Christina. Well, okay, they're. Jesus. Okay, well, how old are they? Legal?
- [23:17]
Christina Lopez
They're legal. They're legal.
- [23:18]
Chelsea Devontez
They're like 20. But more than that, they're like 27 and shit.
- [23:21]
Christina Lopez
They're like 26. Yeah. They're like 26, 25, 26.
- [23:24]
Chelsea Devontez
But, well, here, here's, here's what I find fascinating. And for my own niche interests, I always, I think I've talked about this before. Like, I could never really get into porn because I couldn't find stuff that made the stuff I liked. Even in just that, like, I felt like the house should be clean. Yeah, I just didn't want it. Every mattress was like disgusting. And I like, I'm not even that clean. But I just like wanted them to be in like a nice area, so couldn't find that. And then also classically in porn, they would just skip all of the foreplay, especially for anything involving women. And so then a lot of people go to queer porn, right. That would maybe show like women and women or whatever. And so I learned from this series. Well, I learned one thing, which is that the number one purveyor of male to male romance content is straight women. And so. And so women are the number one audience for heated rivalry. When it's showing just like the hottest sex scenes, it's still an hbo, so it's not. It's like a full sex scene, but it's close. And women are the number one purveyors of it. And I was like, oh, of course. Because that is the only content that objectifies the male body.
- [24:33]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, sure.
- [24:35]
Chelsea Devontez
Right. The way our patriarchal society can objectify women and make them hot all the time for their own needs and everything.
- [24:41]
Christina Lopez
Right.
- [24:41]
Chelsea Devontez
The only content objectifying men's bodies for sexual pleasure is the male to male content. And maybe there's something also safe in it as well. That.
- [24:49]
Christina Lopez
So yeah. The other thing that I saw women say online, but who knows, they might be bots. No, I'm just kidding. Was basically like, there's not another woman to compare themselves to so that they like, if this woman is hot, they might feel inferior too. I don't know.
- [25:03]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, that is right. But what I love about this is that I got to be honest, I'm only one episode in the writing in the beginning is hard for me because every five seconds it's like six months later, one year later, six months later. Which in the douchey TV writing world, you'd be like, that's hack. What are you doing? You can't move story points forward like that. But also you can. And the show is doing great. There's two things I want to read, a message I got about it, and secondly I want to say is like, I love the success of this show because it was created On a platform that HBO then bought it and put it on tv. For anyone in TV writing, it's like, yes, of course, of course. Something this original, risk taking. And outside of what they think the demo has to be for a show to succeed, the only way the show would get made if it was made independently and then purchased and put on hbo. But more than that, it is now wildly popular, which then means hopefully everyone in the industry takes note and starts looking for their heated rivalry, which I think is super exciting. And the way they tell the story and tell their romance. I hope we get tons of different romance shows that take a note from how this one is being made. So that's very exciting to me. And then I want to read this. So shout out to Volsky on Instagram who messaged me. Producer Liz tweeted, threaded. I don't really know what platform this is. From the way I spent the entire year planning heated rivalry coverage, expecting to shout into the void with book fans in Canada, only to see the show go to number one on HBO in the USA Today, y'.
- [26:37]
Christina Lopez
All.
- [26:37]
Chelsea Devontez
This just doesn't happen to Canadian TV shows. Seriously. No one predicted this would happen because this has never happened. Never. Even Schitt's Creek took four seasons before America joins the hype. This is unheard of. This is the kind of moment that changes everything. And Volsky wrote this sums it up. A director famous in Canada, a writer famous in Canada, and on and on. And also that the author has been diagnosed with Parkinson's and has eight years of quality life left. And the way the production has seen centered her has been beautiful. It's just all so Canadian. So shout out to Canada and also shout out to. Successes like this are so important because then they can change the rest of the industry and give us other cool, hot content.
- [27:15]
Christina Lopez
Absolutely. Yeah. There's been a lot of interesting talk around this show too, because I've seen some critiques from gay men about it too, about whether it is. I mean, there was that one actor, Jordan Firstman from I Love la. He gave an interview to Vulture. Vulture asked him about the show and he was like, that's not how gay men have sex.
- [27:34]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, he might be right.
- [27:35]
Christina Lopez
I've also seen, like gay men watching it, like at bars in WeHo. And I will note that the series creator is Jacob Tierney, who is an openly gay man, and he's the one who adapted it from the books by Rachel Reed.
- [27:47]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, I was gonna say, to me, it looked just like aspirational, like everyone's ass looks hot and Perfect. Everyone looks like loving and adoring. The camera moves, no one's sweating. Like, of course it's all fucking fake. And I also would like the same level of respect paid to all types of people having sex so that we can get that aspirational content for us as well. Fascinating. Okay, let's quickly talk about Lily Allen on snl. Did you see her Madeline performance? I did.
- [28:13]
Christina Lopez
I think Dakota Johnson was the perfect person to do Madeline's voice for snl.
- [28:19]
Chelsea Devontez
You can reach out to me anytime, by the way, if you need more details or even if you just need.
- [28:25]
Christina Lopez
To venture or anything.
- [28:28]
Chelsea Devontez
Love and light.
- [28:30]
Christina Lopez
Madeline.
- [28:32]
Chelsea Devontez
I've been feeling this and sitting on it. And it's the type of thing that, like, I love it so much. But also when you love something so much, you're almost jealous cause you're not the one doing it. But I've just been sitting here going, someone's gonna turn her album into a movie or a TV show. And I can't wait for it. But also that part of me that, like, knows that is like, oh, God, that's gonna be so fucking good. And I feel like this was the first step towards that. And secondly, I just gotta say, I know we were kind of hard on Lily Allen in our episode because her memoir is a thing to behold. Go listen to the episode. But, God, I love what she's doing. I love what she's doing. Watching her stand up there singing about the fucked up details about her marriage with that incredible silhouette behind her of the woman he cheated on her with. I just can't. I cannot get enough. I think what she's doing is so cool. Go watch the segment on snl even if you're not watching snl. Okay, let's discuss very quickly. I just want to put out a recommendation.
- [29:22]
Christina Lopez
Okay.
- [29:23]
Chelsea Devontez
Had you listened to the new Rosalia album?
- [29:25]
Christina Lopez
Yes.
- [29:26]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay, so this is old news to many people. They'll be like, yeah, duh. That came out a while ago. But it took me a long time to get around to pressing play on it, and I finally did. I'm obsessed. I'm in love.
- [29:40]
Christina Lopez
There's like 13 languages on the album.
- [29:42]
Chelsea Devontez
Wow.
- [29:42]
Christina Lopez
Okay.
- [29:43]
Chelsea Devontez
The album is not in English, therefore.
- [29:44]
Christina Lopez
That could be like. It does have an English song on.
- [29:48]
Chelsea Devontez
It, but for the most part. Is the album in English, Christina?
- [29:51]
Christina Lopez
No, but it's in several different languages.
- [29:53]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, it is.
- [29:54]
Christina Lopez
It is.
- [29:54]
Chelsea Devontez
No, I'm saying this is cool. I just want, like, people to know what you're pressing. Play on so you don't feel like. Just listen it's just the most beautiful music ever. It's everything I love in an outlet. It's like operatic with two notches turned. It's a musical. I hope it does become a musical. Her voice is incredible. I just love everything about it, and I'm sad it took me so long to listen to it in whole. So I just want to tell everyone else to.
- [30:16]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, it really is interesting. It also has, like, a lot of religious themes and overlaps in it. She talks about specific saints. Like, Rosalia is a controversial figure because of some of the appropriation that she's been accused of for Motom Ami and because she's Spaniard, you know? But what she is doing on this album and talking about her experience and, like, dealing with emotional terrorists. I enjoyed Diving In. The Berghain single was the thing that, like, really set me off to discovering it. It does stop you in your tracks because it is sort of so different.
- [30:49]
Chelsea Devontez
Is that the one with Bjork?
- [30:50]
Christina Lopez
Yes, that.
- [30:52]
Chelsea Devontez
I mean, that is such an incredible song. Also, hearing Bjork, I was like, I can't believe I missed. It's not like I was a huge Bjork fan. I was like, I miss her.
- [30:59]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. It's gonna be super interesting to see how this plays out at the Grammys between Lily Allen and Rosalia. And I would say Bad Bunny also.
- [31:08]
Chelsea Devontez
It is a good, exciting year. It's an exciting year. Okay, let's talk about the P. Diddy documentary, the Reckoning, which touches on a topic that is difficult for me to discuss sometimes. So I'm not going to, like, get fully into it, other than what I want to say is that I think it's really worth watching. It's on Netflix. It's four episodes. You obviously need to be in, like, a good, safe space to take this documentary in. I'm going to highlight two parts that really blew my mind. One is that I did not realize how much I had just culturally accepted the headline that P. Diddy is a big star and makes great music. Right. I just kind of accepted that. And if you'd asked me, like, what's P. Diddy's greatest song? I would have been like, oh, God, like, every breath you take, like the song he made when Biggie died, like, I didn't register to me that I really couldn't list a P. Diddy song. Meanwhile, in the small town I grew up in, Tupac and Biggie's albums were played non stop. I could probably sing those lyrics, like, by heart just from hearing it so much when I was like 14 and 15. So the history on how he's really just like a loser fucking executive who shoved himself into stardom, being the person, like, giving notes and assaulting and manipulating.
- [32:31]
Christina Lopez
People from the jump and also doing, like, random ad libs on songs, like.
- [32:35]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, yeah, or just like being in a video. And I don't think I had. And I always knew it's like, oh, he's the producer, whatever. I don't think I contextualized it the way I do now, which is like, oh, my God, a loser. A fucking loser. And I think a lot of people who know that particular music space more knew that. But I think really going into the history of all of the horrific criminal things he did and also artistically bringing zero to music, I think that was a really fascinating reframing and even more illuminating on how much power he holds, because that's been the thing he's been building. Not talents, not art, not saying something.
- [33:18]
Christina Lopez
Power.
- [33:19]
Chelsea Devontez
So I found that history really fascinating. And then the other takeaway, which is nothing new but is always painful and good to see, is how the jury really couldn't understand domestic violence and how when domestic violence wasn't one of the specific charges, it allowed them to excuse him of many things because they could be like, oh, yeah, he was domestically violent. That's not one of the charges. And then also how people really can't see what happens to you when you're a domestic violence victim. And when they showed emails of Cassie being like, I love you, loved that time yesterday. They were like, oh, great, she wanted it. And even with the video in the hotel, that it just, like, wasn't enough. And I think that's something I talk about in this podcast. I know. And I feel like it's just often just never enough. My own book's censored and I have court documents. It is just never enough in this world that's been created for us. And so it was hard to watch, but I think it was really well done. And the fact that 50 Cent is behind it would have to be a whole other episode.
- [34:23]
Christina Lopez
Who himself has some allegations against.
- [34:25]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, yeah, it is a messy ass situation. But the documentary, I think, does a really good job of, like, receipts, timelines, proof. You get to see male victims who were sa'd and couldn't speak out against Diddy. And also, like, part of being, like a black man and the masculinity attached to that and what kept them hiding. And now they get the platform to speak out about what happened to them. It's just unbelievable.
- [34:50]
Christina Lopez
This is such an interesting era of documentaries taking down or examining these men. And I don't know what to make of it. I don't know, is that the mechanism that we can only sway public opinion with?
- [35:00]
Chelsea Devontez
You know, and that was a sad takeaway for me too, because you watch it play out in court and just no justice is served. And that's when it hits you. Like, had 50 Cent, who has his own shit against him, not had such a beef and not hold such a grudge that he put together this documentary series, would the public ever have seen and fully accepted the entire truth? Or. Or would they still be under the hypnotism of P. Diddy's PR team because he had the money to pour into it? We needed someone else to pour money into it. And it's just like, that's such a terrible justice system that we're in the justice of Netflix documentaries. Yeah, but the same with who trolled Amber, because that stuff is specifically hard for me sometimes I don't seek it out. And when I finally watched that documentary, it broke me open. And the fact that people don't realize how many inauthentic paid for accounts led to Johnny Depp winning that case is unbelievable.
- [35:58]
Christina Lopez
And sometimes it's not even like a huge amount, but they generate so many posts, so much content, so much engagement, and it's amplified because they're all interconnected networks that it drowns out any authentic information from breaking through.
- [36:14]
Chelsea Devontez
And worse, it gives the people who could have been afraid to be saying something really fucked up and anti woman and pro violence this idea that they are in the majority and so they can be loud. We are always ready to blame a female victim and take her power away. And when you create the idea that you have real human people backing that thought up, it allows a small handful of psychopaths to rise up outside the courthouse holding big, big old Johnny Depp as my daddy signs. Okay, let's move into Cynthia Erivo's memoir. Do you want to talk us through this story?
- [36:54]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. So essentially people discovered that there was a specific part in her memoir. And I think I read portion of it, like in the episode that we did, where it basically is something that Ariana Grande said in an interview, but it's not put in quotes or reference in any way that would indicate that this was not Cynthia's thought and it was coming from Cynthia. And the publisher ended up telling the Washington Post, quote, a chapter introduction, which included correct attribution, was inadvertently left out of the book. We have immediately updated the file to the corrected version, which will be used going forward in all formats, including all future printings of the physical book. We are deeply apologetic for this oversight and thankful that we were able to correct it. And then the Washington Post notes, The book's other 53 chapters are similarly brief and written in first person in Erivo's voice. None features an introduction. I don't know what to make of that. But that's. That's what. That's what it says. Yeah.
- [37:58]
Chelsea Devontez
Basically, the interview from Ariana went viral where she was talking about how no one has the right to say shit to you. And, like, don't. When you comment on someone's body is like, whether they're thin or thin, thinner or heavier. Like. And she did. She did this whole spiel that went viral because it was very potent. And then Cynthia Erivo, word for word, quote, wrote it in her book. She at least printed it in the book. I also went back and checked the pages and, yeah, there's no attribution. There's no signal that this couldn't be Ariana. And I think what's crazy for you and me is that we both reread it. You especially realized in the passage, Cynthia Riva was like, you know at Thanksgiving when your aunt says you look thinner or skinnier and neither of us clocked that she is British.
- [38:37]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, I think. I think I was just like, oh, I guess she had been in America long enough to, like, celebrate Thanksgiving, but.
- [38:43]
Chelsea Devontez
And someone was like, shitty about how she looked.
- [38:46]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, but like, it wouldn't have been her aunt. It would. Or like, maybe it happened to other friends and it did. It happened to Ariana Grande.
- [38:53]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it is. It makes me really sad on the publisher's behalf that a ghostwriter and editor, an entire publishing house, put this in with no thoughts as to the fact that Cynthia didn't say it. And it just puts the rest of the book in question. The entire book is sort of written as like a one hour interview with her. And then they wrote the stuff down. But this makes it even more so, like, oh, no, did you only get a half an hour with her? And then you had to, like, scour the Internet and cobble together a book that she had no say in. But here. Oh, here's what I really want to say, though. The sex cardigan in Wicked, in Cynthia Erivo's book, as you heard us talk about, she has that entire fucking pajama chapter where she's like, every night put on pajama set with a matching robe, blah, blah, blah. I feel in my bones, like I'd put money on it, that she went to that costume designer and said she needs a robe. And the costume designer said, really? Because she lives in a tree house. She lives in an abandoned tree house in the wicked part of the woods and, like, where she she getting that robe from? And she was like, she's gotta have a robe because that's what's fucking sexy. And when I put my pajamas on, it's always topped with a goddamn robe. Because that's what she said in the book. And then he was like, maybe a bunch of owls made this for her, like a reverse Cinderella style. And she can wear this long, fucking ratty robe to fuck this guy in. And I really do think it came from her, her asking the costume designer rather than the costume designer being like, you know what the sex scene needs? A big ass quilt. Yeah.
- [40:30]
Christina Lopez
I wonder, like, was it that or did it serve the function of when they were levitating to, like, demonstrate how high up in the air they were? I don't know.
- [40:38]
Chelsea Devontez
Come on. No, I don't know. I really play.
- [40:41]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [40:42]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay, let's go into our final topic. Mormon Wives.
- [40:45]
Christina Lopez
Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [40:46]
Chelsea Devontez
Did you watch season three? No.
- [40:50]
Christina Lopez
I know the characters at play. Yeah. And I know that there's some correlation maybe with the show airing certain narratives that were happening and why one person got voted off Dancing with the Stars.
- [41:00]
Chelsea Devontez
And here's the thing. If you're on the Patreon, if you're in my special sprinkle cookie tier, I predicted all that. I said, Whitney is so talented at Dancing with the Stars, she should win it. And because Mormon Wives is premiering halfway through the Dancing with the Star season and she's such a villain on it, she's gonna get voted off. And that's exactly what happened. So hit a little Patreon plug if you really want hot gossip. So I did talk about Mormon Wives, just not on the podcast. Listen, it's passed. So I'm just gonna give, like, my big thoughts, which is to say what I loved about this season is that they were filming season two while they were doing press for season one. So you really got a big behind the scenes, meta look at how these shows are done. Because they're doing the press and they're filming the show, and that became storylines. If you watch the show critically, it is everything I hate, and I think we hate about where culture is headed in one little petri dish stabbing each other to death and proving that tradwife culture and those values and religious Shame, don't work, and don't make for a good, happy life. I imagine there's a large demographic that's like, look, they're just like us. It's just like our lives. I also got married too young and want to fuck someone else who's not my husband but believe in God kind of. So it's obviously playing differently for different people. It's the. It's the most sinister reality show I've ever seen. And that remains true. Really, really sad about this latest season is that, to me, pretty clearly with evidence. Engaged in a flirtation with this guy. Oh, my God, I forgot his name. Marciano. And the text message, the DMs, the video. There's just so many receipts of, like, engaging in this thing. And then it was outed that they kissed and that she sent these types of things to him. And then she said they never kissed, but that he actually sexually harassed her or assaulted her because he, like, grabbed her ass and she didn't want it. But the amount of information and receipts that has been shown to prove the opposite of that so far is disturbing. But then also, you know, I was just talking about Cassie and P. Diddy and how nuanced these situations are. So it's just. It's such a difficult and uncomfortable storyline. She says the touch was unwanted. He is now suing her for defamation. And then supposedly, footage will be coming out. And so I'm leaving room for Demi's side of it, and I'm also leaving room for. If she is using language and misusing it purposefully. It would be detrimental to women everywhere if she was misusing it. And if not, I mean, it's just a really complicated dynamic, and so it. It's just really difficult to watch. And I don't even want. I don't even want to be in the position discussing this right now. And that's where it's just such a toxic show.
- [44:01]
Christina Lopez
What do you think of the editing on the show and how true. I mean, obviously, they have to tell a story. They have to keep people engaged. They have, you know, so, like. Well, they.
- [44:09]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah.
- [44:09]
Christina Lopez
Do you think there's manipulation happening or.
- [44:11]
Chelsea Devontez
I think. I think the gray area from the editing has made it more confusing, but not on purpose. For example, like, at the end of last season, Marciano. I keep forgetting his name Marciano. Is meeting Layla at a ski lodge to, like, tell her the truth about what happened. And she thinks he's gonna tell her that he and Demi had an affair. And he comes down the corridor holding a snowboard and in his, like, snowboard suit. And he's like, what's up? Let's talk. And he's like, actually, I didn't have an affair with Demi. I actually slept with Jesse. And Jesse was Demi's best friend. And that is like, a 180 revelation. You're like, what? Cut to. He and Jesse did have an affair, but perhaps didn't sleep together. And Jesse, it was this weird, like, watching her prettier best friend get the attention she then wanted. The attention she then cheated on her husband. But then also the fact that Marciano said it on television is because Demi was sending him text messages to say that he had slept with Jesse in hopes to not out that they had had a thing. Now here's the editing thing. I want to call out Christina, are you ready for this? Yeah. At the ski lodge where he's, like, walking in to tell the truth about what happened, holding the snowboard.
- [45:23]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [45:25]
Chelsea Devontez
That ski lodge doesn't allow snowboarding. So it's like. It's just like. So that's where you're sort of like, okay, are you guys just like. He was like, what? I'm a snowboarder. And they're like, all right, hold a snowbird as you walk in for this thing that we've clearly created for you to tell Layla that you slept with Jesse.
- [45:44]
Christina Lopez
Yeah.
- [45:45]
Chelsea Devontez
But then. So there's so much truth to it. And then there's like, they don't even have snowboarding here.
- [45:49]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. It was just, like, where they could film this confrontation.
- [45:52]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah.
- [45:53]
Christina Lopez
I think that's the thing that has always bothered me about reality, quote, unquote, reality tv, because it's just, like, that part of his stage. But these people's relationships are real. But, yeah, there are aspects of it that are being brought up on camera for the, like. I don't know how you process out and still find any grounding and where the narrative is.
- [46:12]
Chelsea Devontez
I hear you. And it's tough. Like, the Demi stuff is, like, a really awful conversation that I, like, wish I, like, don't even want to be having it here. But then they're like, a whole storyline is Michaela, who was deeply abused as a child in her marriage, not feeling sexual anymore and not wanting to be intimate because of this sexual trauma she carries and her and her husband attempting to work through it. And even in the reunion, she's like, I still don't want to. And I don't know what that means for marriage because I'm struggling. When have you ever seen that on the, like, one of the number one reality shows. Like, there's something fascinating about it, even though it's surrounded by. I mean, it is darkness, and then it's surrounded by darkness.
- [46:54]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. And then Mikaela wasn't involved in the swinging.
- [46:57]
Chelsea Devontez
She was not.
- [46:58]
Christina Lopez
Okay. Yeah. Because then I'm like, oh, if the, you know, terms are there, then wouldn't it be okay for him to have relations with other people?
- [47:06]
Chelsea Devontez
Wow. Christina. Tying it all up, all of it could be solved if they just went back to swinging. That would be a great, great ending. Sony. So listen, I wish I was doing, like. Like an every single episode Mormon Housewives recap, but in fact, I have something I'm working on right now that is taking most of my time. So I cannot but would love to hear your comments and thoughts on this season because it was raggedy, it was messed up, and you know what I have to say about that, Christina?
- [47:34]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, what?
- [47:34]
Chelsea Devontez
I can't fucking wait for Taylor to be the Bachelorette.
- [47:37]
Christina Lopez
That's what I was wondering. I was like, are you gonna cover it?
- [47:41]
Chelsea Devontez
Are you gonna, like, Christmas? Christmas every day in January.
- [47:45]
Christina Lopez
Yes.
- [47:46]
Chelsea Devontez
Oh, I'm gonna cover it if I have the time. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna cover it because I will be watching every second of it. She is taking the show back to its heyday, where we all pretend that the sex suites have value to them and that it's a big deal to be in there. You know what I mean? Like, that's what it was like, ooh, did they have sex or not? And then, you know, culture was like, we don't give a fuck. And.
- [48:08]
Christina Lopez
And they.
- [48:08]
Chelsea Devontez
And Bachelor was still like, ooh, the fantasy suites. The fantasy suites. And everyone's like, we don't care. And now we're back to, like, you know, did Mormon Taylor, Frankie Paul go into the fantasy suite and have her fantasy to pick her new husband?
- [48:21]
Christina Lopez
When does she start her Bachelorette tenure?
- [48:23]
Chelsea Devontez
I think she's already filming.
- [48:25]
Christina Lopez
Yeah. Okay.
- [48:25]
Chelsea Devontez
Because it's going to air in January, actually. I think it might have wrapped. And she has either chosen or not chosen and is now being kept a secret.
- [48:32]
Christina Lopez
What do you hope for her?
- [48:35]
Chelsea Devontez
What do I hope for her? I hope she just comes out with no one. Because what she really needs is to just get meet and date 26 men. Because she was married off early as a Mormon. Immediately met Dakota. Nightmare. A nightmare of a match. She just needs to realize that many men are out there and there are lots of options, and she needs to just discover herself. And I hope that. I hope she runs through all of Them. I hope she runs through every single man. She's like, I'm keeping them all. I hope she eliminates them one by one after thoroughly, thoroughly. I hope she takes each one of them into the sex. We all 26 of them. And I hope she comes out and is like, I am finally spiritually cleansed, and I stand for America when I say all of this is bullshit. And then she, like, eats the rose.
- [49:19]
Christina Lopez
Do you think? Not eat the rose? Yeah. Do you think they're gonna bring on Dakota to, like, woo her back or have a date with or.
- [49:26]
Chelsea Devontez
Here's the thing. She has such a tie to him that if they did, I'm afraid it would work. I'm afraid she would.
- [49:31]
Christina Lopez
I mean, they're bonded forever. They have children. Like, they're.
- [49:34]
Chelsea Devontez
There was a rumor that she didn't show up to her own going away party to go onto the Bachelorette because she was making out with Dakota in her house, and producers had to come and be like, stop making out with Dakota. You're going on the Bachelor. Listen, I don't know if that's verified or not. And so I don't know, but I bet he is a storyline in terms of her, like, moving on from him and finding someone else. She was also, like, kind of dating Chase, who was the guy. This is too much to get into. It's too much to get. But Chase and her worst wingers, and they go on a date at the end of season two. And so if anything, I think Chase maybe goes on this season, but he's also not a good guy. He shouldn't be there. Wait, I need to end with some tea.
- [50:12]
Christina Lopez
Okay.
- [50:13]
Chelsea Devontez
A cookie DM'd me. I'm not allowed to attribute it to them, but their bio listed a lot of qualities and a certain job that made me think they know what they're talking about.
- [50:23]
Christina Lopez
They're an authentic user. They're not an inauthentic user.
- [50:25]
Chelsea Devontez
They're not an inauthentic user. And they have a job that made me go, you actually might know the truth. And they said to me, the celebrity in the Olivia Newsy book that said the key to life is being rapeable is 100% Uma Thurman.
- [50:39]
Christina Lopez
Allegedly.
- [50:40]
Chelsea Devontez
Allegedly. And to that I say she must have been doing some weird fucking joke that is now printed as truth because what the fuck? Come on.
- [50:48]
Christina Lopez
Yeah, I don't.
- [50:49]
Chelsea Devontez
I don't. I also, like, Uma's done some cool interviews about, like, abortion care and SA and, like, it's.
- [50:55]
Christina Lopez
She wrote about how, like, Quentin Tarantino coerced her into doing that scene that ended up becoming a car accident and Kill Bill.
- [51:01]
Chelsea Devontez
It strikes me as something that like nine bourbons in you're holding a cicada as she says in the book. She's like twirling a cicada around on her fingers being like look at it fly. So like really think about the state you're in to be like holding a cicada at your big fancy party. It makes me think there was another larger context around that that would make that make sense. Which it would. There's a patriarchal up way to make that make sense that Olivia didn't include because she's what, the worst driver in the world. Christina, anything you want to end with?
- [51:35]
Christina Lopez
No. I think if people have any suggestions on things that they're watching, they're loving, please drop it in the comments. We always want to know what's going on in your bubbles and your fyps and all that good stuff. So definitely share. We want to know what your albums of the year are and all that good stuff.
- [51:51]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, drop, drop your comments in the Patreon comments. We do have an end of the year episode coming but oh, we'll keep it under wraps. What that is, it'll just be for Patreon subscribers, Apple subscribers. So it's only for the real ones, you know. Okay, bye bye. You're open mouth awaiting my harvest. A big thank you to our senior managing producer Christina Lopez, our executive producer Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer Marcus Hamm and our amazing associate producer Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and every plate we will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier you can join. Leave a comment chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there. Hey Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to.
- [52:55]
Christina Lopez
The big man up north.
- [52:56]
Chelsea Devontez
And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's Unlimited Wireless for 50. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 per three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes. If network's busy, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.