← Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Viral Article Book Club: Blake Lively, Meghan Markle & The Internet Rage Machine
00:52:57
Loading summary
Transcript192 lines
- [00:00]
Chelsea Devontez
The number one selling product of its kind with over 20 years of research and innovation. Botox Cosmetic Adobotulinum Toxinae is a prescription medicine used to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines. Crow's feet and forehead lines look better in adults.
- [00:15]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Effects of Botox Cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Don't receive Botox Cosmetic if you have a skin infection. Such side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow and eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Tell your doctor about medical history, muscle or nerve conditions including ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease, Myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome, and medications including Botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. For full safety information, visit botoxcosmetic.com or call 877-351-0300.
- [00:57]
Chelsea Devontez
See for yourself@botoxcosmetic.com this episode is brought.
- [01:02]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
To you by LifeLock. It's tax season and we're all a bit tired of numbers.
- [01:07]
Chelsea Devontez
But here's one you need to $16.5 billion.
- [01:11]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
That's how much the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Now here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed. Save up to 40% your first year@lifelock.com podcast terms apply. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast and I'm your host, Chelsea devontez. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And normally our tagline I say this is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dive into all of the glamour and all of the trash. Should we change our tagline to like, I don't know, a literary trash talk podcast? Because today we are covering a viral article. This is my new favorite series where we talk about viral articles and this one today is from the Cut and it's about why Meghan Markle and Blake Lively are getting so much hate. Now, before we dive in, I just want to clearly say kind of the top level answer to this is pretty clear. I think, especially to our listenership. There is racism, there is misogyny baked into this, the degree of which these two are getting hate. Plus what I said in another episode where it just really feels like society's pastime and and feel better hobby is collectively picking one woman to be really mad at. And on top of that, my personal opinion is that when you, you know, seek justice for your harassment, now put aside whether you think you know the harassment is alleged or not alleged, but when you seek justice for your harassment legally, like Blake Lively did in the press, you know, Megan came out, she talked to Oprah about what the royals did to her. Blake also used the press. When you do that, you seek justice. You enter yourself into a new category of vitriol where now there are political players coming in to to hate you because it means something more than just your personal story that you lose for where we stand politically. But all that said, my lizard brain still tells me that there is 10% extra nuance to this. That is more than that than more than the reasons I listed for what is going on with both of these women separately. And this discussion that you're about to hear is going to leave room to discuss that nuance. Does it exist? Are there other things at play as the article proposes? Listen, as every TV writer will tell you, the number one note you get, the note I have received most in my lifetime, is to make the female characters more, quote, likable. I mean, it's the number one note. So I am obsessed with this concept professionally. Like, what makes a woman likable. I am obsessed psychologically. As you know, being likable has been something that I think many people and very much myself have sought out to attain because being likable felt like safety. Like if you were just likable enough, you could be safe from male violence. And as I listen, I wrote about this like, one of the most painful things to me is that in order to seek justice or get justice, society requires you to be likable. If you are a woman or feminine presenting likable. Why? Why is that now every time we drop a viral article episode, the comments on the Patreon are off the hook. Seriously, like whenever we put out this episode and I go and read the comments, it feels like a master class follow up because everyone is like just so smart and thoughtful. So I cannot wait to read your comments. Get on the Patreon. I want to hear everything. And for now, let's dive in to this episode. My guest today, a dear friend of mine, you know her well, she was on our inaugural viral article episode talking about the cruel kids table. You know, all the cool kids at the MAGA parties who we Found out were actually a bunch of losers. That's what we found out on that episode. I am so happy to have her back. She created the show Rutherford Falls. She is about to shoot her new television show, which I'm so excited about. Sierra Teller Ornellis, do you want to give your intro?
- [05:40]
Chelsea Devontez
Hello. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Ciara Teller Ornalis. I am a proud member of the Navajo Nation. I'm Edgewater clan, born for the Mexican people. And thank you so much for having me here today.
- [05:56]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I always love having you on. So I want to tell our listeners that Sierra is a dear friend of mine and probably the friend I argue with, debate with the most. Next to you are competing with Tracy Thomas from the Stacks podcast, and both of you are my frequent guests. But we debate a lot.
- [06:16]
Chelsea Devontez
I listen to your app and her being like, I disagree. I was like, I'm with you, girl. I'm with you and see you when I feel you.
- [06:22]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I've gotten a lot of comments, a lot of comments about like, whoa, it's so cool to hear friends disagree and fight, but you still love each other. And I kind of didn't realize how maybe special that is. So that's a testament to our friendship. We have had a debate about the movie Barbie that has lasted until yesterday. It could pick up today. If we go on the wrong tangent.
- [06:45]
Chelsea Devontez
It could pick up today.
- [06:46]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
So when I put out the votes for which article to cover, the cookies were all over the place. But on Instagram, they majority voted to discuss the article on the cuts about why so many people hate Blake Lively and Meghan Markle. When I sent it to you, you said, this is dangero for us. I said, I know, but it's real theme of the podcast, like, why do these women get so much hate? And so I just want to cover some basics of the article and then I want to get into it with you.
- [07:13]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay.
- [07:14]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
The article is titled why do these women inspire such Rage? Nothing riles the Internet up more than Meghan Markle and Blake Lively published on the Cut. This was written by E.J. dixon, a senior writer. And basically the thrust of the article is that the Internet hates Meghan Markle and Blake Lively a lot right now. And why is that? And I want to read a paragraph where EJ writes. For many of Markle's biggest haters, the show was a prime opportunity to revisit their rancor on social media. Markle's the biggest phony on the planet, a narcissistic sociopath, and the human equivalent of a knockoff handbag. Shiny until you spot the loose stitching. Conservative influencers like Brett Cooper blasted her for being fake, contrived, and inauthentic, while Megyn Kelly said she was, quote, the most insecure person I have seen in the public eye in a long time.
- [08:08]
Chelsea Devontez
Calm down, Megyn Kelly.
- [08:11]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
To judge from these reactions, you'd think Marco was guilty of a far greater crime than simply making a mediocre show. And then she gives some examples of, you know, everything we already know. Blake Lively in the Baldoni suit and Megan making her show with love on Netflix, and a bunch of people who have compared them on Twitter, I guess, like, people who are like, I hate Megan and Blake. And the couple of things this article points out that they have in common is that far right influencers like Brett Cooper and Megyn Kelly are making a lot of headlines and content off of this. And also, both of them have made allegations of harassment. So Meghan Markle to how, you know, the royals treated her and the press, and Blake Lively to sexual harassment from Justin Baldoni on set. And then basically, the thesis of the article ends where EJ writes, why are there so many convinced that these women are dishonest? And why are they so angry about it? Is it because they simply find them irritating, or are they just susceptible to social media smear campaigns? Is it really so hard to believe that misogyny is so deeply ingrained in our culture that even beautiful, wealthy women could suffer from its effects? Maybe they see something in Markle and Lively stories that they don't want to see. Maybe it's just easier to not look. And the one line that I really pulled out from it is, on the Internet, it seems being female and slightly annoying is now a far greater offense than being accused of sexual misconduct. Okay, that's. That's the summation of the article. Did I miss anything? Any big points?
- [09:40]
Chelsea Devontez
No, I don't think so. I mean, they talked a lot about Amber Heard and kind of put it into that context as well, but I feel. Yeah, I think you got it.
- [09:48]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Okay, let's talk about the pairing of these two in this article. The only threads I can see as to why it happened is because Brett Cooper and Megyn Kelly are going at them and that there was a handful of tweets linking them together, but otherwise, I feel like their cases are pretty different. What do you think?
- [10:06]
Chelsea Devontez
I completely agree. Oh, my God. Are we agreeing? We've sold this as the battle of the century, and here we are. Here we are. I can't stand Blake Lively, and I love Meghan Markle, so I didn't immediately understand why the two of them were paired together. Yeah. So it was interesting to me that they paired them together. And I think, too, there's an element of this, of, like, Meghan Markle existing enrages people, whereas I feel like Blake Lively is a little complicit in her situation. It's like a workplace issue versus, like, I got married and the world went insane. Like, I feel like those are two very different things.
- [10:42]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Interesting. Interesting. Okay, so complicit how, though, in, like, putting content out and creating, or you think, like, her actual actions, like, Blake does? Actions that are.
- [10:52]
Chelsea Devontez
I didn't read all the stuff and all the text messages and things, but.
- [10:55]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Like, you didn't read the 900 page website?
- [10:58]
Chelsea Devontez
I did not read the 900 page website. I. I have to admit, when it first came out, there were all those, like, videos of her being annoying, and I was like, ugh, I already don't like her, so I can just be hateful towards her. Then she dropped the bomb of, like, this is what really happened. And then I had to kind of eat crow. But then it turned out, like, a bunch of those text messages were altered, and then I'm like, I'm right again. Like, there seems to be something about her where, like, her and Ryan Reynolds constantly posting mean tweets to each other or, like, happy anniversary, babe, and it's a picture of him cropped with his face off. Or it just feels like they're into kind of, like, stoking.
- [11:29]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
The brand.
- [11:30]
Chelsea Devontez
The chatter.
- [11:31]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah.
- [11:31]
Chelsea Devontez
And, yeah, like, their brand is, like, stoking and being provocative.
- [11:34]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah.
- [11:34]
Chelsea Devontez
Whereas I feel like with Meghan Markle, she's like, I'm trying to bake a cake and everyone hates me. Like, I feel like her thing is so. Because, like, I went last night because I was like, oh, I'm going to prepare for this podcast. And, like, I didn't watch her show, and I remember reading this, like, wave of, like, her, like, blah, blah, and I found it delightful.
- [11:51]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
You genuinely liked it?
- [11:53]
Chelsea Devontez
I genuinely liked it.
- [11:54]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
You paid attention. You weren't, like, on your phone, and it was on in the background, but.
- [11:58]
Chelsea Devontez
That'S what it's there for.
- [11:59]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
That's exactly. So it's so what?
- [12:02]
Chelsea Devontez
This is my thing. I find that the media right now is, like, we can all agree, like, the algorithm makes us enraged to keep our attention on these platforms. Right. And I think that there's kind of like a wave of, like, new. I just listened to Amy Poehler's podcast. And she's like, I just want to be a good hang. I'm not trying to make you better. I'm not trying to do anything. I just want to, like, talk to my friends and, like, feel like it's a good hang. And I feel like the Meghan Markle. I was like, oh, this is such a throwback to, like, Ina Garten. She just makes, like. She collects honey and makes, like, honey from her, like, bees. And then she bakes her friend a cake, and she puts together a little, like, gift basket. And. And some of it's like, I'm just gonna put peanut butter pretzels in a cute little bag. Like, it felt very, like, doable, very soothing. The music was kind of like early Oprah opening credits music. It was really, like, just, like, slow in, like, a warm bath. It sounds like asmr. All her talking is very low. She's like, oh, my God, can you believe we're doing this? It's so. And then, like, nothing's, like, loud or big. And I think, like, I don't know. I found it, like, an awesome, like, respite from being overly stimulated constantly by, like, news and media and people, like, on TikTok screaming at me. And I was like, I imagine this, like, overstimulated, like, iPad baby. Audience watched four minutes of this woman just, like, very calmly collecting honey from bees, and they just, like, flipped out because they couldn't handle just like, how not stimulating it was.
- [13:30]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I think that's absolutely fair. It definitely. I think, oh, wow, we're agreeing too much. It's crazy. I don't know. The thing that I really want to hone in on is I want to say that, yeah, they actually both are annoying to me. That is true.
- [13:47]
Chelsea Devontez
And what annoys you about Meghan Markle? Megan Sussex. I apologize. I apologize, Megan.
- [13:53]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
And also, there's drama about that, that she's not Sussex. I actually can't remember. Have you heard this?
- [13:58]
Chelsea Devontez
I just saw the Mindy clip where she called her Meghan Markle, and she's like, I'm Sussex.
- [14:02]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yes. But then a bunch of royals were like, you actually moved into some other house, and that's not your last name? I can't even follow it.
- [14:10]
Chelsea Devontez
Yes. But also, who fucking cares? Like, this is my thing is, like, anytime people are annoyed with Megan for, like, taking ownership of this thing, it's like, the thing she's taking ownership of is, like, white colonizers, like, British people as a whole, it bad. And then, like, just in terms of like, the royalty, not, like, actual British people. And then also, like, her having, like, a. Like, I don't know. I think there's something about her that really ticks people off. In the same way, people were ticked off by Diana. And I like. It's what I like about her, and it's what I. And I think, to me, the difference between Meghan Markle and Blake Lively is Republicans are going after Meghan Markle because she's black and because they're racist, and Republicans are going after Blake Lively because they're misogynists and hate women.
- [14:51]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
It's a perfect feminist diagram of how. It's an intersectional feminist. Feminist. How to. Of, like, here's what happens. Yeah, absolutely.
- [14:59]
Chelsea Devontez
Because I think seeing, like, a black woman just be unbothered and, like, make an olive oil cake. It, like, makes them so fucking angry. And it's like. It's like, I will often fly first class with one of my kids, and we're both of color. And the look on people's faces when they see us, I just, like, live off of that. It's, like, worth paying the extra money. And there's something about, like, that feeling with her that I get where I'm just like, she's just existing and making people insane. And that says so much more about them to me than her. Blake Lively, I don't feel the same way.
- [15:28]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yes, I am absolutely with you on that. And then all those layers exist. Here's what I do want to say, though. Listen, rabid, feral feminist. If you've listened to two seconds of this podcast, I go way hard. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that they both are annoying to me. However, I could list 300 women I adore in the spotlight. Right? So I don't. I don't want to fully ignore that there is something specific about these two. However, that conversation can't even really be had because here's my main point. I feel like we have to separate them. I cannot do this article that put them together. I don't feel like it pulled out any nuances or points or takeaways. I think it actually convoluted the issue. So can we.
- [16:09]
Chelsea Devontez
They both just kind of, like, happened around the same time.
- [16:12]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah. Like, here's two women that are getting a lot of hate right now. I also think it was such a mistake to cite Brett Cooper and Megan Kelly as your references of why people hate these women. It's like, those are far alt, right, clickbait women. They are not reporters. They are not journalists. They live for trolling. So you can't be like, the public doesn't like them. And then you're citing Megan Kelly and Brett Cooper, who are alt right political trolls. Like, they do that for a living.
- [16:38]
Chelsea Devontez
If you click on the links of the quotes, they're dynamic quotes. But most of the Twitter followers had like 5,000 followers or 50,000. It wasn't like, oh, this got retweeted 4 million times or something.
- [16:49]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
So now you're presenting it to us as like, the world hates them. And it's like, no, you're. You're helping the trolls, like, get a spotlight. So that's why I think, like, this article. There's just nothing to take from it except from that annoying line, which I want to talk about. But other than that, I'm like, oh, no, you helped them. You helped me. You served it up to liberals as like, this is the truth and, like, it's not. But I do want to talk about the things that I do think are true and the idea that, like, women get a fudge ton of hate on the Internet for no reason. Like, welcome to being alive. If you exist at all on the Internet, like, I'm sure you have experienced this. I experienced it. You experience it. But let's specifically talk about Blake first. What kills me about Blake? Who? Yes, I'm sorry, I think she's really fudgeing annoying. And I specifically think the titles she picks for her magazines are annoying. The way she's really ignorant is annoying. Like that tied with, like, massive confidence and mean girl energy. And like, specifically, there's. There's clips of her being horrific to other women. And it's on camera. That is unquestionable. But let me say this. Justin Baldoni is far more annoying. He. You know what I mean? So it's like, that exists about her. The Internet hates her. He's in a man bun. We've all agreed we hate it. Why is there not? You know what I mean? Even if you think she made up the allegations, you should be like, but he's an annoying little piece of dick.
- [18:12]
Chelsea Devontez
I feel like that's why they're separate is because Meghan Markle versus the Royal Family. I hate, like, colonizers. So I'm like, easy win there with her and Justin Baldoni. I'm like, there are just no winners for me personally. Yeah. Like, I just don't think anybody is looking great in that whole situation.
- [18:27]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
But I think that's what's crushing me is, like, that is the point we should take from this article. It is. Yes. Women can actually be annoying. And the amount of hate they'll receive for it is 9,000 times. A man like Justin Baldoni, who deserves equal amounts of hate and is not getting it. And do you think he's not getting it because people truly believe his side of it and therefore he's no longer annoying? Like, even if you believe him, wouldn't you also be like, and he's fucking annoying and made feminism his brand in a really gross way?
- [18:56]
Chelsea Devontez
I think according to some of these articles, maybe, because I definitely was like, I don't like her. And he seems fine to me. And I think what basically happened was I think the rollout of that movie felt very off.
- [19:07]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah.
- [19:08]
Chelsea Devontez
Like, him not talking made her voice, I think, seem bigger when premiere.
- [19:13]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
But he was talking.
- [19:14]
Chelsea Devontez
I'm just saying, like, in terms of, like, he wasn't. I don't know how to say this. He did less press. He did press separately from her. Okay.
- [19:21]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah.
- [19:21]
Chelsea Devontez
He kept it separate. And so it gave the appearance that he was sort of being. And she, by the way, was also, like, shilling, like, shampoos and tie ins to a movie about domestic violence. Like, it just. It seemed like he was giving her enough rope to hang herself in a way that, like, looking back on, it was obviously coordinated and he went with Johnny Depp's PR team and da, da, da, da. So I'm not saying he's like a better person for it. I think he just played it smartly.
- [19:45]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah, I do think he played it better. I also think he's not as famous as her, and that just gave him a million points because people didn't automatically have the clips on him at the ready. The way they already had Blake Lively clips and they already had a Blake Lively opinion.
- [19:59]
Chelsea Devontez
I also think it's like a knife fight between two narcissists. It was just two different strategies, and his worked out more than hers.
- [20:04]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
He had a way better team until her team fucking brutalized the court system to get that quiet subpoena and stop him. And now he's coming back with the website, which, honestly, extremely smart move because people pull talking points from his website and say it as the fact, like, Megyn Kelly, some of her quotes in this article are straight from Justin Balzoni's lawyer. And it's like, you have to have your own thoughts. Don't just read the website. And you're like, I guess this is the truth. Like, are you forgetting those two sides? But Sierra, there's also early clips of Justin Baldoni and Colleen Hoover Being like, we're gonna make flower bouquets today for the movie. So he also was gonna shill flowers and shampoo and be a man in a pink suit, you know what I mean, for that movie. Until Blake Lively really kicked him off it. But I. Yeah, I really just sort of like, who's correcting the case aside, I just feel like we can't even.
- [20:57]
Chelsea Devontez
I don't touch it.
- [20:58]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah, it's just the Internet hate rage factor. Because I believe in my heart that people should be responding to this annoying character in the press equally as they are responding to Blake. Like, they both have committed crimes of annoyance.
- [21:14]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah, I know you disagree.
- [21:16]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
No, tell me why. Tell me why.
- [21:18]
Chelsea Devontez
No, I don't. I don't know. I don't know enough about it to know. I really feel like each of us have our own algorithms that are telling us their own stuff. So, like, I haven't come upon the algorithm that is saying, Blake Lively is the worst and Justin Baldoni wins. My algorithm is very much like moms telling me, like, there are no winners here. And, like, those. They both seem like damaged people. Got into a work issue.
- [21:39]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah. But you do know she's getting more hate. That's on your algorithm, right? Just in general, in life.
- [21:46]
Chelsea Devontez
From self. Self created content. No, I mean, honestly, my algorithm is her, like, claiming to be Native American. Like, my algorithm is like, can you tell people that?
- [21:55]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Because when. When you text me that, I was like, I just kind of in my heart, was like, oh, it's probably in 2012. Can you please tell the story?
- [22:02]
Chelsea Devontez
So someone was posting this on. Because I'm. I'm Navajo, and I follow a lot of, like, native influencers. And they were like, does anyone remember this? And it was a L'Oreal commercial where she's, like, walking with, like, the wind in her hair, and she's like, I'm German, Irish, English, and Cherokee. And we're like, record scratch. What? And it was in 2020. I, like, wasn't like, 2010. It wasn't like, it was well within the realm of, like, what are you talking about? And everyone was sharing it and making, like, Cherokee meme jokes of bringing her home and, like, making fry bread and stuff. And we just, like, native people just love to laugh and tease. So we were having a good time with it, but it did kind of, like, lend itself to, like, that white woman. There's a certain brand of white woman confidence where they're just like, I want that and it should be mine. And, like, it's like, can I have. Can I have that, you know, and it's like, I'm Cherokee. And she was like. And I just love, like, the diversity of my family. And I'm like, said German, Irish, English. Like, those countries are all so close together. And so, like, I don't know. I just think that they're like, I get a vibe from her, but. But don't know her.
- [23:04]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yes, I get the same vibe. I. I think it's a very real thing, an unearned confidence of like.
- [23:11]
Chelsea Devontez
Yes.
- [23:11]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah, go ahead.
- [23:12]
Chelsea Devontez
Yes. To walk to. And I think, like, is it her or is it me being jealous that I don't have that? That I.
- [23:18]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Well, let's ask. Really ask yourself. Is it.
- [23:20]
Chelsea Devontez
I think that's why I like Meghan Markle. Like, oh, a black woman in a mostly white space who, like, has to fight for everything she has and has a complicated relationship with her family. Like, I get her. I like her. This lady who's, like, married to Ryan Reynolds and friends with Taylor Swift, who's still complaining about stuff. Like, she's much less relatable, I think, to your average person. And I think that is part of the reason why it's like a tonnage issue. It's like, not only are you unrelatable and make your brand. I'm so relatable. I make fun of my husband on the Internet. It's like, the margin for error is going to be harder if you've purported to be this other thing. But, like, I don't know. Or maybe I just don't like her and she pretends to be cherry, like the white lady who pretends to be Cherokee. I will just put you in a box from now on. And you're just in that category and they clock you as that person.
- [24:02]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah.
- [24:03]
Chelsea Devontez
Doesn't mean you're a bad person, but it means, like, I'm now putting you in that category and you'll always be there. So I don't know.
- [24:08]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I think what you said and what I want to pull out is like, the margin of error is less. And like, I used to have this thing. I never found a way to execute it, but it's just like, crazy is a color that shows up best on women. And this is not gender specific mean, just feminine. Presenting feminine energies. Anyone? No matter what your gender is, if you have any sort of feminine presentation, people are going to be so hard on you. And society is going to look at someone feminine and be like, oh, my God, she's crazy. But we're going to let Tom Cruz jump on the couch for, like, Five years before. We're actually like, wait a minute, wait a minute. He was also crazy. Like, why did we just let him get away with it? Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back. Did you know you can give yourself an eyelash curl just by using the tips of your fingers and pressing your eyelashes upward? This is especially helpful if you have finicky eyelashes. And my favorite mascara of all time is Thrive Cosmetics Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara. It has five different shades. It doesn't have clumping, smudging, or flaking. And it comes off really so softly and gently, which is really nice. It looks like lash extensions. Thrive cosmetics makes certified 100 vegan and cruelty free products and Thrive Cosmetics donates to causes with every purchase, including domestic violence, which is a very important cause to me. Go get your Liquid Lash Extension mascara and discover your new trusty favorite from Thrive Cosmetics, Luxury beauty that gives back. Right now, you can get an exclusive 20% off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com glamorous that's thrivecosmetics c-a u s e m e t I c s.com glamorous for 20% off your first order.
- [26:02]
Chelsea Devontez
This episode is brought to you by Pluto TV. Pluto TV has all the shows and movies you love streaming for free. That means laughter is free with gut busting comedies like the Neighborhood Key and Peele and Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Mystery is free with countless cases to crack from Criminal Minds Tracker and Matlock. And thrills are free with heart pumping hits like the Walking Dead and Defiance. Feel the free Pluto TV stream now pay. Never.
- [26:30]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Did you know that parents rank.
- [26:32]
Chelsea Devontez
Financial literacy as the number one most.
- [26:34]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Difficult life skill to teach. Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance.
- [26:43]
Chelsea Devontez
And keep an eye on your kids.
- [26:45]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Spending with real time notifications, kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely.
- [26:50]
Chelsea Devontez
And parents can rest easy knowing their.
- [26:52]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free today@greenlight.com Spotify. Okay, let's dive back into the episode.
- [27:07]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay, so like I was into a podcast. Stavi's world that the Greek standup I think is super funny. And he had another comedian on. It's hard to keep name dropping podcasts on your podcast.
- [27:16]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I was gonna say, like, all right. No, I'm just kidding.
- [27:19]
Chelsea Devontez
But like, they were just two bros. Two standup bros. And they were talking about sandwiches. They liked for 30 minutes. And I listened to it because I enjoyed this podcast. And then they ended up talking about just, like, WWE girls for 30. And I was like, this is nothing. What I'm listening to is nothing. And I find, like, if you had two women talking in that same way, people would be like, what? Like, Meghan Markle making fucking honey? Everyone's, like, losing their mind over it. But it's like, yeah, a lot of content is just people talking about inane stuff. And I do feel like it's completely okay when men do it, and it's not ever okay when women kind of do it.
- [27:53]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yes.
- [27:53]
Chelsea Devontez
And I do think there's a double standard, and I do think I feed into that misogyny. Like, there was those text messages that were leaked between Baldonese PR people, and one of them was like, oh, all we had to do was just put these kind of annoying videos out, and, like, the universe took care of it. Like, all these people, predominantly women on the Internet, shared it. And I was one of those women. Like, to me, it's like, my conversation is not about Blake Lively. It's like, how am I complicit in this system?
- [28:22]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah.
- [28:22]
Chelsea Devontez
And I do think, like, I definitely bitched to you guys about it and shared it and put it in the group chats of, like, fuck this girl. And then you find out new information. And I think ultimately, like, it's not groundbreaking, but it's like, we just don't know these people.
- [28:34]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah.
- [28:34]
Chelsea Devontez
We don't know their lives, but we.
- [28:36]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Do know what they give to culture and the actions they do take, and they do affect our lives. And, like, we can talk about that. And I think that's enough. I think everything that she's given to us, like, from her brand or interviews, whatever, like, we have. We can talk about that stuff. And I. I mean, I think I've said this before, but on my Patreon, like, right when that happened, again, I'm not a huge Blake Lively fan, but I was like, hey, you guys, this dude's much worse. And I went and found interviews of him where it's literally like, I have a daughter, and therefore, I heal the world. And, like, you know, I love my wife. Even though, like, she gave birth, I still fudged her. And, like, I was just like, oh, big red flags from this dude. So I pulled all these interview clips, and I was like, look at these interview clips from him. This is also big red flag. I got probably the most pushback of comments where people are like, it's actually Blake Lively. Like, don't be an elitist. Like, he's great. And I was pretty shocked. And when the New York Times report came out, I was like, motherfuckers. I'm not saying she's good, too. I'm saying both, both, both. You can't ignore the red flags. And I also don' like, when it's like, oh, well, you. You know, you have to be a good feminist, so pretend like, Lively is not annoying. Like, no, that doesn't help us either. So, like, let's take it for what it is. I want to pull out another theory I have, which is because I was thinking about other women who we think of as really annoying. And it is distinctly not the same feeling we have towards Blake Lively or Megan.
- [29:59]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay.
- [30:00]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Jojo Siwa. Right? We go like, oh, you invented gay pop. It's like a. Okay. Anne Hathaway. She's probably closest when. When we. Everyone hated Anne Hathaway. It was probably closest to this Blake and Megan feeling. But she still, I want to say, should be studied.
- [30:16]
Chelsea Devontez
She.
- [30:17]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
She overcame. And Katy Perry. Katy Perry. You go like, you loser. Like, let's get this song out of my face. Right? But they do not get the same type of hate. I. It's racism. Obviously. All the women I listed are white. And also, you know, the two we're talking about reported their harassment, were vocal about it. However, then you could think about, like, Taylor Swift and she sued someone for harassment and Kesha. And so I don't know. There's differences here. And I want to pull out something you said, which is my theory that women are not allowed or anyone feminine presenting are not allowed to tell you what their brand is when it is inauthentic. So if Blake's brand was, like, came up in this business, I'm a mean girl. I think she would be selling and shilling shampoo. But to come up and be like, I'm just like you all. And we're like, you're a liar. Not allowed. That's the one thing I can see being similar and being sort of away. Misogyny rises up and that it does not give women any grace. For it's Ellen being like, everyone be nice. And then we learn she's a bitch. And they're like, you should drop off the face of the earth and move to England. Like, you lied about who you are. What do you think?
- [31:35]
Chelsea Devontez
I don't. I don't know. I don't. I don't totally hear that.
- [31:38]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Give it to me.
- [31:39]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah. Give it to me. No, I think Meghan Markle is as authentic as she can be.
- [31:45]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
You think that's truly her?
- [31:46]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah. Like, I don't know. I was always, like, the fat best friend in high school, and, like, my best friends were always, like, the hottest girls in the school, and they were, like, one girl would just be kind of boring, and they didn't have to do much, and they didn't work. Not a lot was asked of them because they were just beautiful, and they were fun to be around, and they were nice to me. And that, to me, is like, the Meghan Markle. She just seems inoffensive in a way that people find so offensive versus Blake Lively, I feel like, is like, the hot girl at your school who cyber bullies me into, like, cutting myself. Like, she just seems like there's an edge to her that I think people can just kind of tell that I think is different than some of the other people. Like, JoJo Siwa is just trying to figure herself out. And, like, that's what I mean. I can't imagine being, like, cringe and, like, I think both are cringe, But Blake Lively feels, like, mean. There's a meanness to her.
- [32:39]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Okay, so you think it's meanness versus inauthentic, because JoJo Siwa, I'm like, that is you. You're really trained. You grew up on. You're a child star. Of course you don't know the pop exists. I feel very sad for you.
- [32:50]
Chelsea Devontez
And Katy Perry is, like, a weird Christian who just discovered feminism four months ago for money. For money. And, like, has no concepts. Like, a car she doesn't want to drive, And I'm just like, get away from me. But I feel like with Blake Lively, it. It feels. It feels inauthentically, but, like, also, like, aggressive. There's something to it.
- [33:08]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
But I. I think there's a lot of other aggressive women we love. Like Joan Rivers, right? Granted, she's funny, so it's different, but it's like, that's. I know.
- [33:15]
Chelsea Devontez
That's so different, but I'm.
- [33:17]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I'm just trying to, like, really hone in on. I don't know that it's meanness. I can think of a lot of women with, like, mean brands, and people are like, yeah, we're fudgeing bitches, and we fudgeing love. This fudgeing bitch versus hers is being mean and pretending she's nice. I'm saying it's. It's the switch up that is not.
- [33:32]
Chelsea Devontez
Allowed, But I don't think it's not allowed. I think it just Feels false.
- [33:35]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah. And. And I think that's infuriating on a woman. You don't want to feel like a woman is like, Is lying. You're like, you fucking liar.
- [33:43]
Chelsea Devontez
But isn't that also why you hate Justin Baldoni?
- [33:45]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
No. No, because Justin Baldoni is like, hello, I am a feminist. And all. I. And I make my money off of feminism. And that's. That's true. I think he's an full idiot who's like, I watched my wife give birth. I should get an award. Give me a TED Talk. That's. And I think that is part of why he is not as annoying to people. Not only that they didn't know about him as much, but that like his whole. His Baha'I stuff and the way he leads with kindness and like that. And even if that is cringe to people or he's leaving Blake Lively a six minute voice note like, that's him. It is. That is who he is.
- [34:17]
Chelsea Devontez
He.
- [34:17]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
He likes that man bun. He means it's.
- [34:19]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah. I think. I guess all I can say is Blake seems to me like someone who's trying to paint herself as a great time.
- [34:25]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yes. And she's very much not.
- [34:27]
Chelsea Devontez
And she's very much not.
- [34:28]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And so moving over to Meghan Markle. So I think, granted, listen, there's gonna be a big chunk of racism in this. So let's just, let's just accept that and know that I'm just talking about the other chunk. When I say, like, when she was like, I didn't even know what a curtsy was. I didn't even know he was a prince. Like those types of clips. I think that's what people pick on of like. Yes, you did.
- [34:52]
Chelsea Devontez
So.
- [34:53]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
So it's like that inauthentic, like, that's what is making them extra mad. And listen, I don't actually hate Meghan Markle. She doesn't really. She doesn't really hit the blip for me. I would. I'm only discussing her because you went.
- [35:05]
Chelsea Devontez
After her pretty hard on that one episode.
- [35:07]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I didn't even watch the show.
- [35:08]
Chelsea Devontez
I know, but you heard like fake flowers. You heard like edible flowers and you like lost your mind.
- [35:13]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
And that's my point. That's my point. That annoys me no matter who is doing it. If my goddess and queen Betty Gilpin had a lifestyle show and she's like, do is I put dried flowers on things. And then she goes, jam is my jam. I would be like, that's annoying. I don't think that from anyone.
- [35:30]
Chelsea Devontez
I don't agree. Because I think there are like. Like Gwyneth. I think there are people who are just as annoying in those cases.
- [35:36]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I agree.
- [35:37]
Chelsea Devontez
Who I think get as much love as they get hate. And I feel like with the Meghan Markle of it all, she was just trying to do this, like, super, like, if basic is your brand and you're fine with that, I find that, like, people that, like, enrages certain people. Yeah. And I'm like, who is she hurting?
- [35:51]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
No, no, I agree. I agree with the enragement. Like, like, what I want to say is, like, I don't enjoy basic from anyone. We have had to cut multiple made, well, jokes from our conversations because we hate it so much.
- [36:02]
Chelsea Devontez
Your favorite food is Taco Bell. How can you say that?
- [36:05]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
That doesn't. That's not the whole of my personality, though.
- [36:07]
Chelsea Devontez
Like, love you, but I'm just saying, like, you do wear your middle America stripes with pride. We both do. Being from the Southwest.
- [36:16]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah. But that's not the type of basic I'm talking about. The type of basic I'm talking about comes with extreme wealth.
- [36:21]
Chelsea Devontez
Meghan Markle didn't come from extreme wealth.
- [36:23]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
But she's in it now, so who.
- [36:25]
Chelsea Devontez
Cares if she's a self made person? I feel like that's not the same thing, though. Like, you can't choose that you became a princess. Right. That's not something that she, like, necessarily like, asked for. She fell in love with someone and she ended up having. And I'm not saying it was like calculated of wanting to marry a high status person. I'm just saying, like, which.
- [36:43]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
That part of it? Hell yeah. If that was calculated, get it, girl. I mean, like, that doesn't bother me.
- [36:48]
Chelsea Devontez
Yeah. I just feel like they're not there before the grace of God go out. Because I'm not marrying a prince. But, like, if I was in those situations, I would be as awkward and weird. And I think that, like, the awkwardness from someone that pretty of that status, there is something likable about it. And I think conversely, Blake Lively being like, I'm just a down home Cherokee, like, is what repels me from her. Even if I met her, she might be lovely. And like, I don't. I can't judge her as, like, an actual person. But in terms of, like, the content she puts out, I find it a little bit like, mm, not for me and Meghan Markle. I find, like, okay, that's fine. And I don't understand the hatred as much.
- [37:25]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I don't understand the enragement but if we're going to talk about, like, do you love it? Like, I don't genuinely love it. I do also want to point out that they both have lifestyle brands. And this specifically puts you in the category of, like, Martha Stewart. And you remember the Martha Stewart, Wall street stuff where that. That is what another similarity I can draw. Like, when you have a lifestyle brand based on, like, ability and you mess up even just a little bit, you will be treated for multiple felonious crimes that you did not commit. But, like, the hatred is just so much bigger when you are a woman with a lifestyle brand, which is also Gwyneth Paltrow. It's like, oh, it's almost like when they've tried to monetize or commodify or sell.
- [38:02]
Chelsea Devontez
I feel like Gwyneth Paltrow, though, like, has appropriated. She thought she invented yoga. Like, she. She has appropriated certain lifestyles and made them her own in a way that I do think is gross and worthy of criticism.
- [38:16]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah, no, I'm. I'm agreeing with you. I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying when these women take on brands, I'm saying it gets even more intense because they're making money off of it. And so it'll make people even angrier that, like, a woman is making money off of, like, and today I made Honey, how dare you.
- [38:32]
Chelsea Devontez
I think it's like. But to me, like, I don't consider Gwyneth a slay, but I think for. For me, I'm fine with Meghan Markle existing in the world and trying to do our own Netflix show.
- [38:41]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Let's be clear. Me too. Okay. Okay. I have one question for you then. I almost put this in a solo episode. I threw it away. I got. I got self consc. But I was thinking about Gwyneth, and I'm like, how is this woman creating, like, this candle smells like my vagina? And she's not in control of the humor.
- [38:56]
Chelsea Devontez
She did.
- [38:56]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Just did an article where she was like, that was an oopsies. And it's like, how. Who's on your team? She did jade eggs. She does $15,000. You know, sweater you can buy.
- [39:06]
Chelsea Devontez
She's. Yeah, also, like, a precursor to, like, Maha and all that stuff. I think she, like, was, like, a prototype for all that stuff.
- [39:11]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
In the Vanity Fair article, she's defending Maha. Blah. But here's my question for you. It somehow doesn't stick to her. She still gets to have an amount of respect that leads her to be in movies or be thought of in A different way than Meghan Markle. Why is that? Is it because she's a Nepo baby? Is it because she's a white lady? Is it because Brad Pitt and men stand up for her and co sign for her? Like, what is the difference? Because Gwyneth has committed way more annoying crimes than Meghan Markle's annoying crimes. Why does a certain population still give Gwyneth respect in the way they don't.
- [39:45]
Chelsea Devontez
Give Megan because she's white?
- [39:48]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah. No, I mean, that could. That could totally be the answer. I'm just, you know.
- [39:51]
Chelsea Devontez
No, I think it is. I think. And I also think, too, like, I am not a fan of Gwyneth Paltrow. I've. I remember even in college, I, like, I kind of hooked around with this guy who knew her and, like, like, had gone to high school with her.
- [40:05]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I hope that's how he got you, too. He's like, by the way, went to high school with Courtney. No, no, it was not Come to mama.
- [40:10]
Chelsea Devontez
No, no, no. But I remember him describing her walking down a staircase and just being like. Just bathed in golden light. And this was, like, before she was famous. This was before any of this stuff. And the way he talked about her, I was like, that woman must have something that just. It doesn't matter. She could murder someone. And I do think there are just some of those people who, like, have that. Whatever that is. And she's one of those people. And I. And multiple times have, like, talked to men about her as a concept and just been like, isn't it. She. Remember she performed at the Country Music Awards with Muppets, and she was off key. She was terrible. And I was, like, going off, and these two guys are just like, I don't know. I thought she was having fun out there. And I was like, what are we talking about? It just. And to me, like, that's. You can't. Like, you can't fight city hall. Like, you just. You can't fight the universe. You can't win against the ocean. Like, that's just Gwyneth Paltrow. Like, that, to me, is. That's like a data point. Like, if you were doing a. If you were doing a survey, you just wouldn't include because it would ruin all the data.
- [41:07]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I think you're so right. And I. To wrap this up, I. I think comparing Meghan Markle to Blake Lively is just such a miss. They're just so different. And I think it's, like, does a disservice to, like, we should be able to Discuss women in all forms. Annoying or perfect or whatever. I also quickly want to say to the Amber Heard of it all, she was legally in the right in the uk, which is what she said in the article. But, like, if you watch that documentary or the podcast, like, Amber Heard is not the same as Blake Lively as Meghan Markle. Like, the amount of monstrous, heinous crimes Johnny Depp pulled off against her that are documented and no one pays attention to is really, really sad and scary and personally impacted the publishing of my memoir, which I know that's like, so people are like, oh, is it? Is the Johnny Depp case gonna have an effect on women? It's like, I'm over here raising my hand. The publisher's lawyer literally sent me an email that said, Johnny Depp's case set a precedent to make us not want to take any risk at all of a woman sharing her abuse. Now, that was just one lawyer at one publisher. Obviously this varies and there are people who could totally take different stances and it would be fine, but it did affect me. Okay, what did you want to say before I went on my diatribe?
- [42:17]
Chelsea Devontez
I just want to say that I think, like, in talking about this, that, like, I do feel like we never see articles grab, like, two men and be like, what's up with men these days? Like, there's no, like, hey, Elon Musk and Morgan Wallen, the guy from snl, walking off like, like, men are doing it their way. Like, there's never any articles about this. And I also think that Elon Musk is a great example of, like, what happens when a man has to go through the same, like, Internet vitriol that your average, like, high school senior girl goes through and watching him, like, lose his mind and, like, force the president to try to sell a Tesla and change laws. And damaging a Tesla is now terrorism. Like, it's fascinating how quickly men will, like, circle around and be like, let's protect our bro. When, like, they get any modicum of Internet hate. And it's under the guise also of, like, I'm all about free speech.
- [43:07]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Oh, yeah.
- [43:07]
Chelsea Devontez
And.
- [43:07]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
And I want to bring comedy back, but, like, not about me.
- [43:10]
Chelsea Devontez
No. And so it's like, as much as I, like, can be annoyed by someone like Blake Lively, she's taking her shots. She's not letting it bother her. Like, Meghan Markle living her life. Like, none of them have had full on meltdowns and Hathaway, like, lord knows, like, the damage that's been done to that poor woman and like, they all just have to sit and take it and smile and, you know, step and repeat. And, like, watching Elon Musk, like, fully melt down on Fox News and cry over, like, Tim Waltz calling him weird. Like, I just think it's so fascinating watching a billionaire man have to go through the same shit that these women go through every day and just fully, like, not be able to handle it.
- [43:46]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
A million, billion, billion. Agree. I cannot believe we've done this to the listeners. We did not fight to the death. I so agree with that, Sierra. And I want to say, like, as someone who likes to center women in my life and my stories or whatever, like, watch all these shows, have all these thoughts, talk about it, whatever, but save your anger and your rage for annoying people who are actually ruining your life. Like, Elon Musk, like, rage at him. You can casually be like, oh, I saw the Meghan Markle show Flower. You know what? I personally am not going to be buying flower sprinkles. However, I'm not mad about it. What I am mad about is Elon Musk and Trump being like, bring comedy back and then immediately canceling any comedy about them and trying to jail people for it.
- [44:23]
Chelsea Devontez
It.
- [44:24]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Not to mention the actual crimes they are committing with ICE and deportation and we could go on and on and on. They're doing so much heinous, horrific work in this country and they are so weak. They're so weak about it, though. Like, they're not big, strong boys. They are weak, pathetic, snowflake losers. Okay, it is time for the article test. Every week I get to this point and I say, I meant to think of a name for this, and I forgot. Get litty. The lit test. Is it lit? I don't know. Know, workshopping things. Okay, first question. Was this article well written?
- [44:56]
Chelsea Devontez
It was fine.
- [44:57]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah.
- [44:58]
Chelsea Devontez
It was very short. Yeah, I thought, like, for. It felt very. It felt like it was written very quickly.
- [45:03]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah, I'm giving it a no simply because when you bring up data points that are just alt. Right. Trolls, like, as if it represents the public, I'm gonna need the other side of it, too. Okay, second question. Did reading this article make you want to scream about it to people you know, new?
- [45:18]
Chelsea Devontez
No.
- [45:18]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Me. Yes.
- [45:19]
Chelsea Devontez
For sure.
- [45:20]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah. Always. Always down to talk about this stuff. Okay, final question. Did reading this article deepen your thinking on this topic? Did it deepen the discourse?
- [45:29]
Chelsea Devontez
It did, because I ended up. I will say this is kind of maybe an overshare, but I clicked on all of the hyperlinks and then I. I actually did not know the Amber Heard story very well. Like, that was just something that, like, I think I was, like, having a baby when that was happening and just wasn't, like, online a lot and didn't know a lot about it. And when you go to comment sections, it's kind of 50, 50 in terms of, like, supporting him and supporting her. And so to. To read some of the details of it, I was like, oh, shit. Like, I. I feel like I was uneducated on that topic in a way that I was like, I consider myself a very. Trying to be a good, good feminist gal and like, to have, like, that kind of a blind spot. I was like, oh, the article made me kind of reconsider my own blind spots, I think more than it made me analyze like. Like societal ills, I guess.
- [46:17]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah, no, I think that's great. And I put off watching the Amber Heard documentary on Netflix, which I highly recommend, or the podcast, which we will link both in the show notes, because I knew it was gonna really specifically tie to my own personal history in ways that I probably wasn't ready for. And finally I watched it and it's just. It is. It destroys you and how much you learn. I saw clips from her and you think like, oh, there's both sides to it. And it. Yeah, it rips you apart when you see, like, what' and what's happening constantly. And I do think it's, like, worth watching that in context with Blake and Baldoni, even if they're both guilty. Okay, Sierra, final, final thing. I had three other articles we were almost going to cover on this podcast until people said, give us Megan, give us Blake. And I'm just going to say them quickly and we'll both give our hot, hot takes.
- [47:04]
Chelsea Devontez
Okay.
- [47:04]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
The Vanity Fair article about Gwyneth Paltrow.
- [47:07]
Chelsea Devontez
Being back, I mean, she just. She always wins.
- [47:13]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Money, nepotism, Maha, her.
- [47:16]
Chelsea Devontez
I will say her, like, criticizing intimacy coordinators really bothered me. It's fucking annoying because I just, like, it's like, really? Even in this space, you have to be one of the guys. You can't just fucking be like. But even if it's, like, it's good for some people, like, you know, you're a taste maker. You know, you're the person who sets the standards. You come from a filmmaking legacy family. Like, I don't know, it's whatever.
- [47:35]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah. You don't have to take up time to talk about it. I also think, like, if you already know that you have gone viral for jade eggs that cost a million dollars and you're going to put out a candle that says, this is what my vagina smells like and sell it for 300. And you don't know that that's going to go viral. You are bad at business. Okay. The New York Times guest essay on dads taking their gay sons to Hooters.
- [47:56]
Chelsea Devontez
Hot.
- [47:57]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah, I'm gonna say I love this. And it makes complete sense that the feminine that exists in women and the feminine that exists that many men prescribe to gay men who, like, aren't upholding masculinity is like, yeah, of course we come together. Of course those Hooters waitresses were like, oh, these men are being fucked with by the misogynist hyper masculine men who fuck with me every day for the same reason, which is that they see us both as less than. Let me protect you. Loved it. Finally, the article you wanted to do. But my article, so many people said, please know, which is the Atlantic editor being like, why was I added to this group chat where Pete Hegseth sent his plans to bomb Yimit? And obviously more than. But her emails me with sharing classified documents?
- [48:41]
Chelsea Devontez
Not just that. I think it's also too, like, as a woman of color who's been told her entire life that, like, anything she's gotten has been because of DEI and, like, never have earned anything in my entire life, to have them be such proponents of that and that narrative and fire all these people who don't deserve to be fired and are actually good at their jobs, and then to fuck up in such a fucking, like, dumb ass way is. It just makes my blood boil in a way that I wanted to, like, rant about for. For 40 minutes to anyone who listened to me. So you guys all have my Instagrams. I will send you voice memos of my thoughts on this.
- [49:16]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Plug your Instagram, because if you want that, Sierra, you should go live and people should watch it. What's your Instagram?
- [49:20]
Chelsea Devontez
No, at Sierra Ornellis. And just. Yeah, there's nothing more stressful than a group chat, but that one just got me, man.
- [49:25]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Yeah, my takeaways. I know there's a lot of discourse about this. I just want to say a few things. Pete Hegseth went to Harvard. I am continuing my reign of finding Harvard pieces of shit on this podcast. He also has a giant white supremacist tattoo that takes up the entire, like, top quarter of his body. His pec, like, isn't. It's huge. I want to call that out. And the last thing I'll say is that I'm Going to say this on the podcast a lot now. I know it, but my husband recently brought up the old adage to me of if one side is saying it's raining and another side is saying it's not raining. A journalist's job is not to report on both sides. A journalist's job is to go outside and tell you if it's raining. And I am so horrified that all of our journalists are covering. Can you believe they're spinning it like this? Can you believe they're saying it's not classified? It's like, do your job and tell everyone it's classified. It's obviously classified, so stop telling me how Pete Hegseth says the Atlantic is a stupid newspaper. Like, who cares? Tell us if it's raining. And it is. It's raining. Those are classified documents.
- [50:21]
Chelsea Devontez
But a la the Johnny Depp of it all. I do think that there's, like, this fear of getting sued now. I think all of these, like, all these publications are so afraid of getting sued by Donald Trump that they are, like, policing their language and saying, like, instead of being like, it's classified information, it's like, in other cases, it has been considered classified and, like, all of our attention spans are too dumb and short that we can't, like, actually delineate what those are saying. So we need, like, more plain talking journalists and we need to pay better attention. And it feels kind of impossible. No.
- [50:48]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
And you know what? This is also why I will plug the substack woman. I follow. It's like, like some independent people who aren't afraid of getting sued like that. And also I will point out, you know, some of those publications owned by Jeff Bezos. So, yeah, they probably can't talk. Sierra, thank you so much for coming on. Plug yourself again so that everyone could go be a fan. Follow you request articles from you. I'm going to bring Sierra back as much as she will Come on. She's shooting a TV show, so she's probably going to go away soon, but whenever she's free, she'll come back.
- [51:13]
Chelsea Devontez
Thank you so much for having me at Sierra Ornalis on Instagram. And thank you so much, Chelsea. I'm sad we're we didn't fight more.
- [51:18]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
I know.
- [51:19]
Chelsea Devontez
Me too.
- [51:19]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
What have we done?
- [51:20]
Chelsea Devontez
I know.
- [51:20]
Sierra Teller Ornalis
Oh, look at us. A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer Marcus Homm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks, but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro FM where it is easy to download audiobooks, books and support local bookshops. And right now you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code TRASH. That's right, trash T R A S H. Two audiobooks for the price of 1 at Libro FM. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.