Viral Article Book Club: Money Dysmorphia and the Cost of Being Chronically Online

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Episode: Viral Article Book Club: Money Dysmorphia and the Cost of Being Chronically Online
Release Date: April 18, 2025
Host: Chelsea Devontez
Guest: Carolyn Wynn, Novelist, Screenwriter, and Playwright

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Introduction

In the April 18, 2025 episode of Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast, host Chelsea Devontez delves into the intricate relationship between social media and financial anxiety through a viral New York Times article titled “Are You the Only One Who’s Broke, or Is It Money Dysmorphia?” by Emma Goldberg. The episode features an insightful conversation with guest Carolyn Wynn, a celebrated novelist and playwright, who brings her personal experiences and professional insights to the discussion.

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Discussion Overview

Understanding Money Dysmorphia

At the heart of the episode is the concept of money dysmorphia, a term coined to describe a distorted perception of one's financial health, akin to body dysmorphia. Chelsea introduces this by summarizing Goldberg’s article, which explores how social media perpetuates financial anxiety among Gen Z and millennials. The article highlights how constant exposure to luxury lifestyles on platforms like Instagram leads individuals to overspend in an attempt to keep up, despite actual financial stability.

Notable Quote:

“You’re in a position where you don’t believe you have enough money even though the numbers say you’re okay,” said Aja Evans, a financial therapist. ([05:00])

The Boom Boom Aesthetic vs. Gloom and Doom

The conversation delves into the boom boom aesthetic, a juxtaposition of opulent lifestyles with underlying economic instability. Carolyn Wynn reflects on the pressures of financial expectations set by social media, sharing personal anecdotes about feeling compelled to purchase high-end items like the Margiela Maison tabby shoes.

Notable Quote:

“Some people always have to buy it. Buy it for me.” ([23:41]) – Chelsea Devontez

The Lipstick Effect and Hemline Theory

Chelsea introduces the lipstick effect and hemline theory from the article, explaining how, during economic downturns, consumer spending shifts towards smaller luxury items as a coping mechanism. Carolyn relates this to her own spending habits, emphasizing the allure of affordable yet desirable products.

Notable Quote:

“Consumers spending more on small cosmetic items, perhaps as a way to feel slightly better about the state of the world, or at least about their faces.” ([06:36])

Scarcity Mindset and Generational Wealth

Carolyn Wynn discusses her personal struggle with a scarcity mindset rooted in her upbringing as a Vietnamese American with immigrant parents who highly valued saving. She contrasts this with her current creative career, where financial stability is tied to constant productivity, reflecting the pressures highlighted in the article.

Notable Quote:

“I have to create. And yeah, this money, like, this Article. Like, really? Yeah, it irked me.” ([25:46])

Social Media’s Role in Financial Perception

The episode explores how social media fosters a culture of constant validation and the pressure to display wealth, leading to behaviors like purchasing high-end fashion or attending exclusive events (e.g., Coachella). Carolyn criticizes the superficial representation of financial success, arguing it exacerbates feelings of inadequacy among her peers.

Notable Quote:

“If you could go to the grocery store, if your parent went to the grocery store and they weren’t in fear when they got to the checkout, you were rich.” ([22:36])

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Insights and Conclusions

Chelsea and Carolyn conclude that money dysmorphia is a significant issue amplified by social media’s emphasis on curated lifestyles. They discuss the detrimental effects of feeling perpetually behind financially, despite having reasonable financial standing. The conversation underscores the need for a more grounded approach to personal finance and a critical examination of social media’s impact on self-perception.

Key Takeaways:

• Money Dysmorphia: A psychological condition where individuals perceive themselves as financially insecure despite objective financial stability.
• Social Media Influence: Constant exposure to luxury lifestyles fosters unhealthy financial behaviors and anxiety.
• Scarcity vs. Abundance Mindset: Balancing the ingrained tendency to save with the need to invest in personal well-being.
• Generational Wealth Challenges: Second-generation immigrants face unique pressures in building and maintaining financial stability.

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Guest Spotlight: Carolyn Wynn

Carolyn Wynn is a prominent novelist, screenwriter, and playwright renowned for her exploration of complex female characters. Her debut book, “The Fortunes of Jaded Women,” gained widespread acclaim, becoming a Good Morning America book club pick and one of NPR’s best books in 2022. Her latest work, “The Family Recipe,” delves into the struggles of second-generation children of immigrants in building generational wealth, resonating deeply with the episode's themes.

Future Works:

• “The Family Recipe” explores wealth retention among immigrant families.
• Upcoming third book focuses on the male loneliness epidemic intertwined with societal expectations on women’s roles.

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Conclusion

This episode of Glamorous Trash offers a thoughtful examination of how pervasive social media influences financial perceptions and behaviors, particularly among younger generations. Through the expertise and personal insights of Carolyn Wynn, listeners gain a deeper understanding of money dysmorphia and its implications on mental health and societal norms. The discussion encourages a reevaluation of financial priorities and a commitment to fostering a healthier relationship with money.

Additional Resources:

• Carolyn Wynn’s Books: Available at local indie bookstores and online retailers.
• Follow Carolyn Wynn: Stay updated on her latest works and adaptations into TV shows.

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Thank you for tuning into Glamorous Trash.
For more engaging discussions on celebrity memoirs, pop culture, and books, subscribe to our podcast and join our community on Patreon for exclusive content and voting privileges on upcoming topics.

Transcript

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[Chelsea Devontez]

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[Carolyn Wynn]

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Why?

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[Chelsea Devontez]

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[Carolyn Wynn]

No one's coming to save the day their time.

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[Bank of America]

Let's do this.

[Marvel Studios]

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[Chelsea Devontez]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and glamorous trash to elevate your life. I'm your host, Chelsea Devontez. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And today we are book clubbing a viral article about a phenomenon known as money dysmorphia and how social media is fueling financial anxiety. The article is titled, are you the only one who's broke, or is it money dysmorphia? It is from the New York Times and it is written by Emma Goldberg. Now, this is only our fifth article in this new series of covering viral articles. But y'all, I have already been accused in the Spotify comments of these episodes being promo for the Cut because we did do two articles from the Cut in a row. Now, let me say this. I do love the Cut. It's probably my number one site to go to. And when I was doing PR for my book, I did everything I could to get on the Cut and they said no. So, in fact, not only am I not doing promo for the Cut, but I am definitely not getting anything from them. But to the person who commented that and to anyone else, if you super care what we cover, which I would love, join the Patreon because I held a vote for which article to cover and the cookies chose to cut article articles. So if you want to weigh in, if you want to get in on this discourse, get on the Patreon. It connects directly to your Spotify. You can vote. There's all kinds of chats there's articles, there's pictures, there's a whole community. Get on over there. Now. Today we are getting into money dysmorphia and man dysmorphia Vibe session. Quiet luxury. I honestly prefer loud trash. So this article is definitely pinging on some things. I think we are all feeling. Let's dive in. My guest today is novelist, screenwriter, and playwright Carolyn Wynn, who loves writing about unhinged women who never learn from their mistakes. Her debut book, the Fortunes of Jaded Women, was a Good Morning America book club pick and named one of the best books by NPR in 2022. And she recently released her second book, the Family Recipe. Hi, Carolyn. Thank you so much for coming on.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, I cannot wait to dive in. So we are discussing a viral article today, and this is one that really called to you that you really wanted to cover. It is titled are you the only one who's broke or is it money Dysmorphia. Carolyn, tell me what made you be like, I got to talk about this.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I think it was kind of like the state of the world. And I was reading this like 12:30pm like, dead of night. And it was like after the Blue Origin, the women going into space, like taxes were due. It was just a lot of. And I was feeling the crushing weight of just like financial pressures. Yeah. But I also was like scrolling on TikTok and I'm like, so easily influenced. And I was like, oh, maybe I should just buy that, like, Spanish brand sweater that everyone is talking about, you know, like that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Wait, which one is it?

[Carolyn Wynn]

It's called like, baba or something.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, all right.

[Carolyn Wynn]

But then I like another TikTok that says, like, don't buy baba. You know what I mean? So there's so many contradictions, like, within the span of like 5 to 10 minutes. And like, sometimes it's so hard to like, get yourself out of those weeds. Yes. But at the same time, it's like, just buy the damn sweater, you know?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Or also maybe not. Yeah, exactly. It is so hard to know. Yeah. So we are recording this on Wednesday, April 16th. The article you read, it was midnight last night. This is coming out on Friday for everyone. So I don't know where we're at on the Space Discourse on Friday, but I imagine, I imagine everyone is still screaming. Let me give you the overall headline of this article, a quick recap so we can get into some of the talking points in the quotes. So again, it's about money dysmorphia the tagline is the boom boom esthetic meets the gloom and doom of market turmoil. It's by Emma Goldberg, and she interviews different Gen zers, millennials and like a financial expert called Ms. Perez throughout this article. And it's talking about how people feel like they are broke because they're not billionaires and also feel like what is the point of saving when everything is collapsing? And then therefore these supposedly broke young people are spending tons of money on luxury items because they see other people have it on Instagram and then think they should have it, she wrote. The resulting unease is leading to what financial planners call money dysmorphia, a sibling of the term body dysmorphia, meaning people who look in the mirror and do not see what's really there. It refers to people who have a distorted view of their own financial well being. Quote, you're in a position where you don't believe you have enough money even though the numbers say you're okay, said Aja Evans, a financial therapist. But then they are spending extravagantly because what is the use of saving your money? So have you seen the boom boom aesthetic being discussed outside of this article?

[Carolyn Wynn]

I haven't. But like, when I read the term or the like the boom boom aesthetic phrase and I was like, this makes sense.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It's funny, it made sense. But I was like, I feel like you're telling me this is a term, but like, no one has agreed to it. Like, I feel like this article was doing like a fetch, you know what I mean? It was like, it's called boom boom aesthetic. I was like, really doesn't feel like that, feels like a boomer. But maybe, you know, Gen Z's are they share some values with the boomer generation. Maybe they do.

[Carolyn Wynn]

They do share a lot of values along a boomer aesthetic.

[Chelsea Devontez]

One of the most interesting points of this article I found, and something that I reference a lot is the lipstick effect. And let me read this paragraph. What's known as the hemline theory says that when the economy becomes stronger, skirt lengths become shorter. Boom times mean people want to party. Duh, duh, duh, duh. Some economists and sociologists have found that when the economy turns downward, taste for little luxuries sometimes grow. During the 2008 financial crisis, some scholars reported seeing the lipstick effect, which was consumers spending more on small cosmetic items, perhaps as a way to feel slightly better about the state of the world, or at least about their faces. And in the early 1980s, when the economy cratered, fashion turned gaudy and over the top One popular poster from the time shows a man in a tweed jacket and English riding pants leaning against a Rolls Royce cocktail glass in Air. So this kind of brought together a couple of things I'm curious your opinion on. I really partake in the lipstick effects because it's drugstore makeup, like, one $5 purchase that just, like, changes your month. But this article feels like it's not just the lipstick effect. Like, it is a $200 Spanish sweater. Those are huge purchases. So are you feeling this in your life too?

[Carolyn Wynn]

I am. And I feel like the marker for me is watching people in my life buy the Margiela tabby shoes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm like, learning so much about myself in that, like, I guess I know nothing. What are the Mortella Jabby shoes?

[Carolyn Wynn]

It's like the Margiela Maison tabby shoes. It's like those shoes with, like, the slits in the middle. It's like the Japanese style.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. Yep, Yep.

[Carolyn Wynn]

But those shoes are, like a thousand plus dollars.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay.

[Carolyn Wynn]

And I've always wanted a pair. Yeah. But I don't know why I want a pair. I just do. That's like, my lipstick. It's like my, like, marker of, like, yeah, people are having a good time, but I don't know how they're having a good time, if that makes sense.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. So have you gotten the shoes?

[Carolyn Wynn]

I have not. I have the knockoffs.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Hey, I. I think dupes are where it's at. I mean, this article was really interesting in that it was talking about a type of financial spending that I'm not seeing in my small circles, but, like, I am seen on tik to Instagram. And that was part of the article where it was like, people are seeing all these, like, expensive purchases, scroll by and thinking, like, well, they're doing it. I should do it. But, I mean, I remember tweeting something, I think into 2008, maybe as close as 2008 as you could get, which was, I'll know I'm rich when I own two swimsuits. Because it was just, like, such a luxury to switch them out. And I feel like in the past 10 years, it's like 12 swimsuits. Like, and how are we doing it? Is that fast fashion is that people not saving anything. Is it the doomsday mindset? Like, why do you think that changed?

[Carolyn Wynn]

It's giving, like, white lotus. Like, I'm always on vacation. And you're right. I actually only have one swimsuit.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. Because that's normal.

[Carolyn Wynn]

It's normal.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Unless. Unless you're. I don't Know swimming every evening at a different pool.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah. And I guess it is for like the boom, boom Instagram like vibe. I guess.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Do you remember when like Kylie Jenner had her swimwear line?

[Chelsea Devontez]

You know what? No. I've seen a lot of Kylie Jenner products but I missed the swimsuit line because she never puts underwire in her swimsuits because everything is fake and stays in place and it really bothers me.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah, it was very short lived. There is like some drama around it too. I remember.

[Chelsea Devontez]

What was the drama?

[Carolyn Wynn]

Cheap material, but like high cost. And I think there is like I know way too much about Gen Z drama when I should not, I should not be part of that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Please let us all know about it.

[Carolyn Wynn]

It was like Kylie Jenner had released her swimsuit and like a bunch of people were upset because it's like such cheap material. But then her friend also released a swim line where too at the same time.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Wait, which friend?

[Carolyn Wynn]

I don't know. It's like someone in her circle.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Was it the one that cheated with Chloe's husband? Because I did burn her sports bras.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Oh no, Jordan. I do like Jordan.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I like Jordan. Jordan. Okay. Jordan had a sports bra line for curvy girls and that stuff was made out of like Q tips. Like it fell apart so fast. I was like, Jordan, you have fucked me over like you fucked Chloe. I wanted to ride for you. Okay. So different friend had a swimsuit line and it was like the drama.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah, that was the drama to me it's like that was like the excess of like the height of like swimwear line. And like niche reality TV celebrities also had their own swimmer line that they would be releasing. So for me it was like the influx of like the vacation era where everybody was like always on vacation. I mean how do you like everyday landing like people afford to go on vacation all the time or are they.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Just faking it for the gram which this article kind of hints at but doesn't get to enough because at the same time that we are feeling all of this like oh my God, everyone's on vacation, everyone owns all this cool stuff. We also feel like we're in financial crisis. And in the article she wrote living under a cloud of incessant crisis. COVID 19. Climate change, political turbulence. Sometimes she tells her mother she's interviewing someone here. It's hard to muster the discipline to save when she keeps hearing that the sky is falling. We're more inclined to spend frivolously because of this looming main character energy of the world. Is Going to end anyway. What are we even saving for? And that is paired with what I heard, a term that I loved, unlike boom. Boom. Did you ever hear about the vibe session?

[Carolyn Wynn]

No, what is that?

[Chelsea Devontez]

So vibe session was kind of the Biden era, where everyone felt like we're in a recession, but if you looked at every economic metric, we were not in any way. We are actually sadly doing really well. But we all felt like shit. And we felt like shit because of crisis, because of political turbulence, because Biden was bringing us back from COVID and Trump, and it just took so long to get back to, like, a normal place. So everyone felt bad. Everyone felt like we were in a recession, but it was a vibe session. But this is paired now with, like, real recession vibes. And spending has only gone up on our feeds. So what was your thought about that part of the article where, like, well, the world is ending, so, like, I'm buying it.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I've always had, like, scarcity mindset.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Did up poor.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I did.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I did.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah. I grew up with, like, immigrant refugee parents because I'm Vietnamese American. They escaped the Vietnam War, and, like, they had hoarder tendencies, so they would save everything because they lost everything. So it's really hard for me to ration the tabby shoes, the Spanish, like, sweater baba. But at the same time, it's like, I didn't have that growing up. And I remember so distinctly as a kid that, like, I thought Lacoste, like, those polo shirts, I thought those were, like, the most expensive thing I've ever seen in my life.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I. And I walked into a la Cost store, like, I think a couple months ago, it was only like, a hundred.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Dollars, but I love that you're saying it like that, because I'm still like, damn, that's way too much.

[Carolyn Wynn]

No, it's so expensive. But I remember growing was like, this is like a Chanel. This is like. Yeah, but it's so interesting, the concept of money that changes throughout your seasons of life. And I think here it's like they're kind of like, buy whatever you want. Who cares? Right? And, like, I have friends who always say the same thing. Like, they always say, like, money is fungible and.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay.

[Carolyn Wynn]

And I never know what that means, but I think it's just, like, a loose term. Oh, money will, like, come around. Like, don't worry. But I worry.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. I feel like that's a New age scammer attitude. Like, money is energy and I'm dead ass. I bought into that. Like, there. There were, like, five years ago, I was like, okay, money is energy. Like, just give it away and it'll come back to you. And I think there's something so beautiful about that because I didn't want to feel like, money is trauma. I was previous like, money is trauma. Then I was like, okay, money is energy. And now I'm at money is math. And you, you really just. You just need to count. And like, me and I, I'm not good at math, but I'm now at, like, a money as math place where you. You are, like, a very accomplished author. Your. This is your second book has come out, but your third book is on the way. I'm really curious for you because I'm in the same position of, like, when you grow up with scarcity mindset, but then you have accomplished a dream, but also the dream can go away in just the quickest second so you don't feel like you've made it. And then you have this attitude in this article of like, well, the world is ending. And you're like, do I buy myself the nice thing I've worked for? Or, like, how are you dealing with, like, your success meets your creativity meets money?

[Carolyn Wynn]

It's so funny because my resume would scream, like, monetary success, but I am a working. I'm a working creative. And so for me, like, I have to, like, think of my next book and I have to, like, earn that paycheck. And so for me, it's just become a job. I still have pangs of, like, I want those tabby shoes so bad, but I can't do it unless I be become like, I don't know, like, the next, like, Colleen Hoover. Emily Henry. Colin Hoover.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Emily Henry.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And even still, because we actually just read Danielle Steele's one of her memoirs. It's not out yet on the podcast, but she used to make, like, $5 million a book. And that is decades ago.

[Carolyn Wynn]

It's crazy.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I don't know what, like, the Danielle Steele equivalent in 2025 makes as an author. Like, I. I don't think you're making 5 million a pop, even if you are one of these names we've said, but, I mean, I could be wrong. I don't know. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll come right back into the episode. Did you know you can give yourself an eyelash curl just by using the tips of your fingers and pressing your eyelashes upward? This is especially helpful if you have finicky eyelashes. And my favorite mascara of all time is Thrive Cosmetics Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara. It has five different shades. It doesn't have clumping, smudging or flaking and it comes off really softly and gently, which is really nice. It looks like lash extensions. Thrive cosmetics makes certified 100% vegan and cruelty free products and Thrive Cosmetics donates to causes with every purchase, including domestic violence, which is a very important cause to me. Go get your Liquid Lash Extension Mascara and discover your new trusty favorite from Thrive Cosmetics, Luxury beauty that gives back. Right now you can get an exclusive 20 off your first [e-mail] glamorous that's Thrive Cosmetics C A U S E M E t I c s.com glamorous for 20 off your first order out.

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[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, let's dive back into the episode.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I will say I think I've read the Colleen Hoover New York Times profile. I mean that I think that woman is richer than God.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh yeah. But I think it's like she's like selling merch. She's selling movie rights. She's I think there's other income streams. But tell me, what did you find from that article?

[Carolyn Wynn]

I will say I think she's a very smart businesswoman too, where she most of her books are self published so she maintains all those royalties. And when she sold some of those rights to the traditional publishing houses, she kept the ebook rights.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Little genius.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Genius. And for me I'm like, Jesus, take the real. I'm like signing everything, you know, like I my life away. Yeah. But that to me is like a smart businesswoman yeah, absolutely.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And also kind of speaks to, I mean, she was self published, which I think in the author world for so many years, people look down on that like, well, that means you're not like a real author. I think that's, that's still in the air. And yet like you look at her who self published and she's the smartest.

[Carolyn Wynn]

She'S richest woman I know.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Smartest, business wise. Okay. The final paragraph of this article, I want to posit to you. She wrote a lot of people are like, I'm not Kim Kardashian, I'm not Elon Musk, therefore I am broke. Ms. Perez said. Ms. Perez also sees this sentiment in comments that users leave on her social media page on tik tok, where Ms. Perez calls herself a personal finance expert. By the way, that's so shady.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

To write it like that. Okay, we see how you feel about Ms. Perez on TikTok where Ms. Perez calls herself a personal finance expert. She's forgiving of those who reply to her posts amid the chaos of the moment, effectively saying, there's no point in saving, babe, we're not going to retire. It's okay to spend extravagantly now. So this I found really interesting. I curious your thoughts before I dive in. What was your thought? That's kind of like the final point of the article.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I will say that I do think the term girl math is a bit of like a CIA op. I think they want girls to spend more money.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Right.

[Carolyn Wynn]

And so they kind of like rely on us, like make fun of ourselves. Oh my God. Girl math, like buy it. Right? Yeah. I think there's some studies as like women are the ones who spend the most. Like keeps economy afloat.

[Chelsea Devontez]

80% of households are run by women and do all the consumer spending.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah. And so I think it's interesting that like the term girl math kind of like even the end of the article, like, okay, spend, spend. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

You're not going to retire.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah, go ahead. Like for one K. Who is she? You know, I mean. Yeah, I think that whole thing is just part of like, again, it relies on women to resuscitate the economy during a Trumpian era.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I think that is so well said because also boy math is like my Daddy gave me 400 million and it went away. Oopsies.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Can the government bail out my bank? Boy math. I, I, yeah, I think that is so well said. I this article was so, I want to say it was aggravating in a way because it was, it felt like it was speaking to rich Kids.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Who like she said in that paragraph, said they were broke. And I think if there's anything like one of my biggest pet peeves in the world, and I bet one of yours as well, is like, when you really know what it's like to go to the grocery store and the card's not gonna go through the groceries you put in your basket, you, you know what broke is. And if you don't know what that is and you call yourself broke, you can spot it instantly. And there's just so many, I don't know why it is. But people who are like middle class, upper middle class, even rich, are like, no, we were the middle. It's like, like if you could go to the grocery store, if your parent went to the grocery store and they didn't, they weren't in fear when they got to the checkout, you were rich.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

The end.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I agree. I feel like it's like part recession core for people to cosplay as rich.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's interesting because actually I think I'm more into that. Like, yeah, cosplay is rich. Don't cosplay as broke. And if that is the switch we're seeing, because you know, they are coming in like Gen Z, the job model is broken, the inflation is horrible, like minimum wage hasn't gone up. So they are experiencing really horrible living conditions. But like, according to this article, they're the ones who are like buying furs. So maybe that is what happens when you're given the impossible situation to live in.

[Carolyn Wynn]

And it's funny cause like, yeah, this article like aggravated me too. I had like so many thoughts like churning through my head. A, get off social media. Right. I sound like an old millennial. Or like B, like, who cares? You know what I mean?

[Chelsea Devontez]

The Let them. Is that what that book is?

[Carolyn Wynn]

Oh my God, Let them. I was just saying the other day that I think the Let them theory is recession core. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, wait, explain more about that. I have, I need to hear this.

[Carolyn Wynn]

You have like certain friends in your friend group who you turn to to validate your purchase.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Wynn]

And some people always have to buy it. Buy it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's my mother in law.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah. Even if it's like ugly as shit.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, buy it.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Buy it for me. That's like the Let them theory. I don't know why. It's like the same energy of just.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, I, I think it absolutely is. Where Let them goes on the idea of like, yeah, let them steal democracy and go to space and ruin the earth. You live your life, girlfriend, they'll live theirs. It's like, no, no, no. Stand up and fight. What Democrats get the up and stop.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Letting them, like, do something. Yeah, do something. Don't just let them, like, become the oligarch.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah. And listen, I haven't read that book, but I am a strong believer that if I know what the book means from the title, I don't need.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I get.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I get what let them is. And yeah, I'm already. I don't even want it near me because it feels so dangerous where it's like, no, don't let them have a productive conversation. Which is now one of the hardest things to do. It is deal with conflict, stand up for what's important to you. Like, try and stop Gen Z from buying furs to live in their retirement ditch with. By the way, why are we bringing back furs? I mean, there's just so much wrong.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I know. Everything is wrong with this world.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. Okay. And this article kind of spoke deeply to some themes in your book. Is that right? Tell me more about this book that is coming out.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah, it's my second book. It's called the Family Recipe, and I'm excited. I spent a year and a half working on it, and it's really about new money, second generation children of immigrants and refugees and like, what that looks like to retain that wealth when you just have never. Not a lot of people in that bracket typically have generational wealth and what it feels like, the burden of having to. To build generational wealth for yourself and.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Building it from zero. Because you're the. You're the one generation that starts to get it.

[Carolyn Wynn]

You're number one. That's it. You're a starting point. You're patient zero. And so for me, when I was reading this article, I was like. And I was thinking about, like, back then, I thought Lacoste was like, Chanel. And like, I was like, wow, these kids, like, don't. This is not struggle.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Wynn]

This is not true struggle. And that's why it kind of spoke to me, because I was like, when I was working on the book, I remember when I say I'm like a working writer, working creative. It's true. Like, I still have to live for my book paychecks, right? And, like, I have to create my scripts, I have to work on my plays.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Like, basically you're saying, like, I'm not just co steam. If I don't create the next thing, I don't have money to sit back on.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yes, exactly. I have to create. And yeah, this money, like, this Article. Like, really? Yeah, it irked me. Yeah, it irked me.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it feels like people feel it's unnecessary.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Just like the space exploration is, which is so.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And I love that every account I've ever followed jumped in on the discourse. Even accounts like Wendy's. You know what I mean? Like, what is Wendy doing tweeting about space? And you're like, thank you, Wendy's. But yeah, it feels so painful to have watched what they've done. And I think even wilder. To me, a new point I'm honing in on is that Blue Origin has been sending celebrities to space actually for a while. Like William Shatner.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah. Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

But specifically they decided, Lauren Sanchez, being the proponent of most of this, that it should be an all female press tour. So this was the first time they did, like, L pieces and they branded it and they were like, it's actually feminism. And that's why this has blown up. And people are being like, fudge you. Because we actually could have been yelling at celebrities all year long. But they, they, they put it on women, man.

[Carolyn Wynn]

It's giving 2016 her story.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, it. You. You're so right. Okay, I just have one final question for you. With the artistic industry getting all wobbly. Wobbly, how did this article speak to you in terms of being a create? Like, I am also working creative where, like, my money comes from my creative work. But when the creative industry gets shaky, do you just feel like, oh, I'm going to make more work or do you feel. How do you feel?

[Carolyn Wynn]

That's a really good question. And I have been waffling with that for a little bit lately. Not a little bit, a lot lately.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Some days I try to forgive myself. Some days I'm like, oh, let them, Carolyn. Let them. Let them come to me. But for me, I have been producing a lot more, actually, and I. I do pivot. I'm not just like an author. I work at my plays. I do my, my screenplays. I have been wondering, like, when will the Hustle end?

[Chelsea Devontez]

And are you starting to be like, oh, my God, it's never.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah. I think that's the reality I've accepted for myself and that, like, I will keep going for as long as I can. And if you see me walking around with some tabby shoes, just know they're.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Fake or, or know that this is you being like, let them my feet. No, absolutely. Listen, it's a maniacal time. So if people want to make maniacal decisions, absolutely. I'm gonna call you up and be like, hey, hey, girl. Hey, girl. Can I purchase a jet ski to sit on my front lawn? And I expect you to be like, yeah, girl.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I'll be like, girl, math. Girl, math.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, now it is time for something I still have not titled yet. So let's try out a new title this week for the Discourse. Three questions. We're gonna answer them all.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Okay.

[Chelsea Devontez]

First question, was this article well written?

[Carolyn Wynn]

I would say it was like an amuse bouche. It gave me a little bit. It gave me like a little bit.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I really like that there were paragraphs where it's like, there's three different points in one paragraph. And so I. I'll give it a. Like a Vegas buffet. I'm getting a little shrimp next to some chocolate cake. Don't know if I want that, but I got it. Second question. Did reading this article make you want to scream about it to someone else?

[Carolyn Wynn]

I was frustrated. Yeah. I turned to my husband. I was like, what the is this?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, that's right.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Okay.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I love that. Me as well. I was like, I was weirdly mad that she kept referencing furs.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I didn't like that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I was like, what? What?

[Carolyn Wynn]

1980S bullshit is really like, Great Gatsby. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. And I know there's this whole, like, you know, actually vintage fur is actually better for the planet than like fake fur. And it's just like, could we just like, move off this?

[Carolyn Wynn]

Just stop trying to justify it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Just fucking move to the Spanish sweater, baba, like. And then final question, did reading this article deepen your thinking on the subject matter? Did it elevate the distance discourse of this topic?

[Carolyn Wynn]

I would say no, because I was already aware of this in my peripheral. But I will say, I texted my Gen Z friends this morning and I said, do you guys find everything to be cringe? Is that like a blanket statement?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Carolyn Wynn]

And so it made me think about Gen Z spending.

[Chelsea Devontez]

What did they say?

[Carolyn Wynn]

They were like, it's only cringe if you're 35 and at Coachella.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Just blanket statement. I. I was. That's crazy.

[Carolyn Wynn]

But what their point was, I think was so interesting because it speaks on the financials too, of like, what is.

[Chelsea Devontez]

A 35 year old doing spending money on Coachella?

[Carolyn Wynn]

All weekend we've been seeing like TikToks influencers spending recklessly at Coachella. Right. Again, that wealth gap disparity getting more and more. And so for them, it's like, are you being financially responsible at 35 going to Coachella? I think it's so interest. Interesting.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, that is. And that is that's more interesting than this article, because this article would be like, Gen Z's blowing all their money, and they don't give a. And I don't know that that's true. It does feel like millennials might be blowing all their money because they're like, well, we lived through 2008, and it was okay.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Fascinating. Yeah, I'm. I'm giving this one a yes, only because I've thought about the lipstick effect a lot. But the hemline theory was interesting. Is. Yeah. Is new to me. And I have thought a lot about, like, in deep, deep depressions. That's when art gets more fun. Like, that's where vaudeville came about. And so I thought about that. But realizing, like, oh, people want to party actually was kind of uplifting. Like, oh, maybe as we go through this dark time, we'll move away from social media into some more, like, in person parties. Like, going to coachella when you're 35. Oh, my God.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah, I read that when she texted me that, and I felt like I didn't go to Coachella. I can't afford Coachella. I was like. I was like, oh, my God, like, what? Like a stab to the heart.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh. I mean, my emotional resilience. Can't afford Coachella.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I can't.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I can't stand for more than two hours in this time in life.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I know. No, no, no.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I need cozy vibes right now. Carolyn, tell everyone where they can find your book. Buy your book. Your books are being adapted into TV shows. Like, this is some, y'all. This is some an author to get in on right now, because your third book also sounds amazing. So please tell everyone where they can find your book. Support your work, buy your books, all of it.

[Carolyn Wynn]

I would suggest to everybody go to their local indie bookstore and order it, and hopefully it's there too. But, yeah, please go support your local indie bookstore.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. And buy the family recipe. Get it everywhere. And your next book gives a tiny little preview because I read about it this morning.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah, I'm excited. It's a different genre jump from my first two books, which are, like, more like family dramedies. But my third book is the pitches if the women in Handy Maid's Tale formed a union.

[Chelsea Devontez]

So come on. That sounds awesome. Cannot wait.

[Carolyn Wynn]

Yeah, I'm excited. It's about the male loneliness epidemic meets, like, women being hired to become trad wives and, like, pronatalist marketing people to. To have children with these men who can't get that through traditional means.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Wow. I already want the book and then I immediately want the TV show. So thank you so much for writing it. Thank you you so much for coming on. A huge thank you to our podcast producer Christina Lopez, our executive producer Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm, where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now you get two Libro FM audiobook books for the price of one with your first month of membership using code Trash. That's right, Trash T R A S H2 audiobooks for the price of one at Libro FM. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.