Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Episode: Viral Article Book Club: Plagiarism, Crave, and the Romantasy Google Doc Gone Wrong
Release Date: April 25, 2025
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Zach Zimmerman
Introduction
Timestamp: [01:00]
Chelsea Devantez introduces the episode by highlighting the focus on a provocative article submitted by Amelia on Patreon, titled "Did a Best Selling Romantasy Novelist Steal Another Writer's Story" by Katie Waldman. She also promotes her live show featuring Lauren Sanchez, emphasizing the behind-the-scenes insights unavailable in mainstream media.
Guest Introduction and Credentials
Timestamp: [01:00] - [03:09]
Chelsea welcomes Zach Zimmerman, a stand-up comedian, TV writer, and author known for their queer anti-capitalist comedy. Zach discusses their debut comedy special, "Surprise Me," which premiered on YouTube. Chelsea also mentions Zach's book, "Is It Hot In Here, Or Am I Suffering for All Eternity for the Sins I Committed on Earth?" with a notable blurb from Joyce Carol Oates.
Notable Quote:
Chelsea: "I would rather write a second book than even ask people who love me to blurb it. That's how painful it is for me."
— [03:32]
Discussion on Blurbing and Publishing Challenges
Timestamp: [02:59] - [03:38]
Zach shares their experience with getting a blurb from Joyce Carol Oates, describing it as both rewarding and challenging. They discuss the emotional and logistical difficulties of soliciting blurbs, comparing it to pleading for acceptance of one’s creative work.
Notable Quote:
Zach: "It's like, will you love my child? Will you please love my child? Your child sucks. Your child's ugly."
— [03:38]
Main Topic: Plagiarism in the Romantasy Genre
Timestamp: [03:45] - [17:00]
Chelsea delves into the core article about Freeman suing Tracy Wolf, the author behind the Crave series, for plagiarism. She outlines Freeman’s journey: submitting numerous drafts to her agent, withdrawing her submission from the publisher Entangled after her agent let her go, and later discovering striking similarities between her unpublished work and Tracy Wolf’s published series.
Understanding the Romantasy Genre
Timestamp: [06:26] - [07:32]
Zach explains that Romantasy combines romance and fantasy elements, drawing parallels to popular works like "A Court of Thorns and Roses." Chelsea notes the genre's surge in popularity during the pandemic, attributing it to readers seeking escapism while confined at home.
Notable Quote:
Chelsea: "It's pornhub, but literary for women because there's so many of them."
— [08:23]
Publication Process and Collaborative Writing Concerns
Timestamp: [16:14] - [20:18]
The discussion shifts to the collaborative nature of writing the Crave series. Chelsea reveals that the publisher Liz Pelletier collaborated directly with Tracy Wolf, including shared workspaces like Google Docs. Zach questions the appropriateness of an agent actively co-writing a manuscript, highlighting potential conflicts of interest and creative boundaries.
Notable Quote:
Zach: "Once there's not a single person driving it. Yeah, you can start to ask AI to write a scene or a chapter."
— [16:40]
Legal and Ethical Implications of the Lawsuit
Timestamp: [25:11] - [37:11]
Chelsea and Zach explore the intricacies of Freeman’s lawsuit against Tracy Wolf and Entangled. They discuss the challenges in proving plagiarism within genres that rely heavily on shared tropes and settings, such as vampires in Alaska or common romantic plotlines. The conversation also touches on the role of agents in potentially mishandling or overstepping their creative involvement.
Notable Quote:
Chelsea: "She has also gently noted that Kim had forgotten to attach Freeman's novel to the email. So here's this agent being like, yeah, you know, Freeman wrote a book if you want it. They're like, yeah, I do, and forgets to send it."
— [24:15]
Impact on Creators and the Creative Process
Timestamp: [37:11] - [47:37]
The conversation broadens to discuss the broader implications of plagiarism and intellectual property theft in creative fields. Chelsea shares her personal experiences with idea theft and the emotional toll it takes, contrasting her positive experience of having her work recognized and utilized in popular shows like "Girls5Eva." They debate whether suing is a productive avenue or if creators should focus on producing new original content despite setbacks.
Notable Quotes:
Chelsea: "I've had six massive things stolen. I don't want to say stolen, because I don't know, it could have been groupthink. I think in a few cases, it definitely was groupthink, but it didn't change the fact that I had also done it."
— [38:56]
Zach: "The ultimate win is in the court of public opinion and sales. So put your book out."
— [53:22]
Click Lit Quiz Segment
Timestamp: [49:00] - [53:35]
Chelsea introduces the "Click Lit Quiz," a segment designed to engage listeners in evaluating the discussed article. The three questions assess the article's quality, emotional impact, and the depth it adds to the discourse on plagiarism in the Romantasy genre.
Notable Interaction:
Chelsea: "Did reading this article deepen your thinking on the topic?"
Zach: "Oh, yes. For sure... I need to read one of these books. I need to. I'm a little worried I'm gonna get sucked in."
— [52:04]
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Timestamp: [53:35] - [55:27]
Chelsea wraps up the episode by reflecting on the necessity of recognizing and addressing plagiarism, especially in genres that are susceptible to idea replication. She underscores the importance of creativity and resilience in the face of such challenges, urging creators to continue producing original work despite the industry's pitfalls.
Notable Quote:
Chelsea: "If you have only ever have the one thing, you are likely headed for heartbreak."
— [47:29]
She also promotes Zach's work, encouraging listeners to support his comedy special and book.
Key Takeaways:
-
Romantasy Genre Dynamics: The blending of romance and fantasy has led to a surge in popularity, particularly during the pandemic, but also raises concerns about originality and plagiarism.
-
Collaborative Writing Risks: The involvement of agents and publishers in the creative process can blur lines, potentially leading to unintentional or intentional idea theft.
-
Legal Challenges in Plagiarism: Proving plagiarism in genres with common tropes is complex, often relying on patterns of similarities rather than direct copying.
-
Impact on Creators: Plagiarism and idea theft can have severe emotional and financial repercussions, sometimes deterring creators from continuing their artistic endeavors.
-
Creative Resilience: Despite setbacks, artists are encouraged to persist, innovate, and produce new content to sustain their careers and personal fulfillment.
Notable Quotes with Timestamps:
-
Chelsea Devantez:
"I would rather write a second book than even ask people who love me to blurb it. That's how painful it is for me."
— [03:32] -
Zach Zimmerman:
"It's like, will you love my child? Will you please love my child? Your child sucks. Your child's ugly."
— [03:38] -
Chelsea Devantez:
"It's pornhub, but literary for women because there's so many of them."
— [08:23] -
Zach Zimmerman:
"Once there's not a single person driving it. Yeah, you can start to ask AI to write a scene or a chapter."
— [16:40] -
Chelsea Devantez:
"She has also gently noted that Kim had forgotten to attach Freeman's novel to the email."
— [24:15] -
Chelsea Devantez:
"I've had six massive things stolen... I had also done it."
— [38:56] -
Zach Zimmerman:
"The ultimate win is in the court of public opinion and sales. So put your book out."
— [53:22] -
Chelsea Devantez:
"If you have only ever have the one thing, you are likely headed for heartbreak."
— [47:29]
Supporting Our Guests:
-
Zach Zimmerman's Comedy Special:
Title: "Surprise Me"
Availability: YouTube and Pretty Good Friends Comedy Label
Social Media: Instagram @zzdoublez -
Zach's Book:
Title: "Is It Hot In Here, Or Am I Suffering for All Eternity for the Sins I Committed on Earth"
Availability: Bookstores and online retailers
Join the Conversation: Engage with the podcast community on Patreon and share your thoughts on the episode’s discussion about plagiarism, the Romantasy genre, and the challenges faced by creators in maintaining originality.