Viral Article Book Club: The Cruel Kids’ Table

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast
Episode: Viral Article Book Club: The Cruel Kids’ Table
Release Date: February 11, 2025
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Sierra Tella Ornellis

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Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Glamorous Trash, host Chelsea Devantez introduces a fresh segment focused on dissecting viral articles with the same analytical eye used for celebrity memoirs. Chelsea expresses her enthusiasm for transforming juicy, widely-shared articles into engaging book club discussions, making content accessible for listeners who may not have the time to read every trending piece.

Chelsea Devantez [00:51]: "This is a new kind of episode, something I've wanted to do for years where every time an article goes super viral, a juicy article that you're dying to read, I am going to recap it and book club it."

Introducing the Guest: Sierra Tella Ornellis

Chelsea welcomes her friend and frequent podcast guest, Sierra Tella Ornellis—a showrunner and TV writer known for her work on Rutherford Falls—to delve into the episode's featured article.

Sierra Tella Ornellis [02:30]: "I trash."

Sierra provides a brief personal introduction, highlighting her Navajo heritage, which adds depth to the ensuing discussion.

Overview of The Cruel Kids’ Table

The focal point of the episode is the article titled "The Cruel Kids Table" published in the Intelligencer section of New York Magazine on January 27, 2025, authored by Brock Coylar. The article examines the rise of a new, young alt-right demographic, portraying them as "hot, young, and cool."

Chelsea Devantez [03:13]: "The alt title was Cultural Ascendancy of the New Young... they are hot, young and cool."

Chelsea summarizes the article’s main argument: that the contemporary conservative movement, particularly among younger individuals, has successfully rebranded itself as appealing and trendy, challenging previous perceptions of the alt-right.

Critique of the Article’s Portrayal

Both Chelsea and Sierra critically analyze the article's depiction of young conservatives. They argue that the glamourized image presented by the writer does not align with reality, citing discrepancies between the narrative and accompanying photographs.

Sierra Tella Ornellis [08:45]: "Another kind of viral moment about the article is that Brock had written that most of the people at these parties were white... New York magazine cropped out the few black people in this photo."

Chelsea points out how the article's description of attendees as exceptionally attractive contrasts sharply with the unflattering images provided, suggesting a misleading portrayal.

Chelsea Devantez [08:56]: "The women are almost all out of their league... This is an egregious lie."

Media’s Role in Shaping Perceptions

The discussion shifts to the broader role of media in shaping public perceptions of political groups. Chelsea draws parallels to the 2016 election, where media narratives influenced public understanding without substantial data support.

Chelsea Devantez [05:47]: "We liberals get this article when our presidents win... Liberals are uncool. And these guys get it. And like, we better get on board."

Sierra reflects on past media portrayals, comparing them to the current situation, and criticizes the media for perpetuating a skewed image of young conservatives.

Sierra Tella Ornellis [04:56]: "Richard Spencer... there was a week where that was like, it's the new conservatives and they're young and they're hip and they're cool."

Political Polarization and Coalition-Building

The conversation delves into the challenges of political polarization, emphasizing the need for effective coalition-building among liberals. Chelsea and Sierra express frustration over the inability to attract and retain a diverse supporter base, contrasting it with the perceived success of the younger alt-right in presenting a unified and appealing image.

Sierra Tella Ornellis [19:31]: "What environment is more inviting if you're just an average person and you're tired and you're not online all the time... They have found a way to do that."

Chelsea Devantez [24:20]: "They are losing the election the same way in 2016... it's not the numbers, my friend."

Journalistic Integrity and Critical Thinking

Both hosts emphasize the importance of journalistic integrity and critical thinking. They argue that the article fails to present a data-driven analysis, relying instead on superficial observations from a limited sample size.

Chelsea Devantez [12:13]: "That's the level of white hotness that Republicans brought to us in the early aughts. And these people are not meeting their own expectations... the article is lying."

Sierra Tella Ornellis [27:14]: "It's because the media wants it. It's much more exciting and they're exciting and they're fun to click on."

Conclusion: Should You Read the Article?

As the episode wraps up, Chelsea and Sierra agree unanimously that the article does not merit reading due to its misleading portrayal and lack of substantive analysis. Instead, they recommend an alternative piece that offers a more accurate and critical examination of the young conservative movement.

Sierra Tella Ornellis [37:26]: "No."

Chelsea Devantez [37:35]: "If you heard this episode, you've heard everything in the article. But I am going to recommend a different article in place of this."

They conclude by highlighting the importance of scrutinizing media narratives and seeking out reliable sources that provide a comprehensive understanding of political dynamics.

Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Chelsea and Sierra maintain a critical stance towards media portrayals of political groups, advocating for honesty, integrity, and data-driven discussions. Their engaging dialogue not only deconstructs the featured article but also offers listeners insights into the complexities of political media coverage and coalition-building within progressive movements.

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Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea Devantez [08:56]: "This is an egregious lie. We all have eyeballs, okay."
• Sierra Tella Ornellis [27:14]: "It's because the media wants it. It's much more exciting and they're exciting and they're fun to click on."

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Additional Resources:

• Sarah Authority recommends reading "This is a Coup" by Laura Bassett on Nightcap for a deeper dive into the influence of young conservatives in political movements.

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Note: All timestamps are based on the provided transcript and correspond to the specific moments when the quotes were made.

Transcript

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[Chelsea Devante]

Welcome to glamorous Trash. This is a celebrity memoir podcast where we dive into all of the glamor and all of the trash. I am your host, Chelsea Devante. I'm your t writer, comedian, filmmaker, author. And sometimes I'm in stuff too. And this is a new kind of episode, something I've wanted to do for years and now I'm finally doing it where every time an article goes super viral, a juicy article that you're dying to read, I am going to recap it and book club it. Just like we do memoirs because some of these articles are just as juicy as memoirs. So this is not a memoir episode, but it is literary. It is trashy. I don't know about you, but I constantly have tabs opened up of articles I'm dying to read and I save them different places and I'm like, I gotta go back and read this. And often I read them, but sometimes I don't. And this is an episode where we will recap the article for you. You're like, oh, I meant to read that. Well, just listen to this episode. We will tell you the recap, the hot points and if you should read it or not. I was obsessed with bad Art friend. I don't know if you remember that article, but I've done an entire live show about it. I love cat person. I loved the recent article from spongebob's wife talking about being a therapist and going through a breakup. And so whenever a hot article pops up, we're gonna book club it. And you can always request an article if you're a member of the Patreon, just drop a comment. In the future, you know, we could be covering any type of article, pop culture, fun things. Right now we are in a Heavy political moment, a very important moment. And this article that we are recapping, it went wildly viral and it is about the new young alt right and how twist they're actually super sexy. Let's dive in.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I trash.

[Chelsea Devante]

So my guest today to recap this article is a dear friend and frequent guest on this podcast. It's Sierra Tella Ornellis, a showrunner TV writer. You know her from Rutherford Falls. So many other things, her credits will make you sick. If you scan her IMDb you're gonna throw up by how talented and successful she is. Sierra, hi. Thank you for being here.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Before I start, just real quick yat eh Sierra analysis. My name is Sierra. I am Navajo. No big deal. I am Edgewater clan, born for the Mexican clan. And thank you so much for having me here.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yet again you sent me this article and I said get on the podcast. Let's tell everyone what it is. So I'll just read the whole byline of it. The title is the Cruel Kids Table published on the Intelligencer on January 27, 2025. The alt title was Cultural Ascendancy of the New Young. Right. So it popped up with both. The tagline is the Cruel Kids Table among the young, confident and casually cruel Trumpers who, after conquering Washington, have their sights set on America. It was written by Brock Coylar, who is a features writer at New York Magazine. Let's first just recap overall, what is the article about? And then we're going to get into it. There's really only one point made in this article that they're trying to make, which is just that the new conservatives, they're hot, young and cool. And basically this one writer, Brock, attends several inauguration parties. So Trump has the inauguration. Washington D.C. throws all these parties. Brock attends them with several MAGA influencers and people to report back on what the face of the party is in 2024, what these people are like. Again, this article is published in New York Magazine as part of the Intelligencer and Brock comes back with the inclusion that surprise MAGA people are like really hot, young and cool. There's a lot of details in the article, but that was kind of all it was saying to me. Any other recap I missed?

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Do you remember Richard Spencer? This was like 2016. There was a, I think it was a New York Times article about the new alt right before that was like a horrible word. He came out to be a white supremacist. I think like minutes after that article was published.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah. Oh, I Remember, he went down hard.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

And then he got punched in the neck because he had like a Pepe Pepe le Franc. But there was like a week where that was like, it's the new conservatives and they're young and they're hip and they're cool. I don't feel like we are. I'm gonna say we liberals get this article when our presidents win, like when Joe Biden wins. It's not like the cool Biden kids. It's like we barely made it through the gauntlet of like people who hate us. But then like every time a Republican wins, there's one of these articles. So to me, that was kind of an underlying headline. Yes. And then also I think there's a feeling of like a little bit of dragging of like, we are uncool. Liberals are uncool. Yes. And these guys get it. And like, we better get on board.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah. This article is everywhere. It is being taken as truth as a new point that everyone should pay attention to.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

That is my main problem with it. Yes.

[Chelsea Devante]

In 2016, all y'all did was go and visit farmers and diners in middle of the country states and tell us what went wrong in the election. And it was all of those talking points that led to books like Hillbilly Elegy becoming popular and being made into a movie. And surprise, now JD Vance is vice president because that was his memoir, all about your bootstraps. And it was because everyone jumped on this false bandwagon that liberals didn't understand white poverty. And that is why Hillary lost the election. And that talking point wasn't based in data because the exact same data existed that year that the Democrats are the working class party in 2016. Specifically, all of Bernie's fundraising for the primaries came from the working class. We all remember the donations were around $27. And with no billionaire donations, Bernie raised millions of dollars off of working class donations. That was the actual lesson of who the party was for. And Bernie's talking points that got lost. And the media allowed us instead to believe in this false elitism of liberals. And now here we are with seven billionaire fuck nuts at the inauguration. Right. Even though the whole movement was supposed to be about not understanding white poverty. If you listen to those 2016 articles. And now here we are, we're in the new wave of 2024 articles. Why did Democrats lose the election? And again, none of it is based on data. It's based on four parties that this one 24 year old writer went to.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

It's very vibes. It's very vibes. I lived in D.C. for like six or seven years, from George W. Bush to Obama. I went to the Obama inauguration and we snuck into some of the like after parties of the balls and stuff and it was really exciting. But most of the people who attend these balls are super fans. It's like the people who go to the meet and greets versus the people who go to the concerts.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

And so I do think the pool that they're pulling from is a little bit more extreme than your average conservative.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah, that makes sense. I'll read something from the article. On the menu are themed cocktails with names like American Carnage ends the second term. In the middle of the room, a hip hugging emerald ball gown and a hefty string of pearls is Tanya Posobic, the wife of Jack Posobic, a far right activist and a one time pizza gate pusher. Of course. She has just arrived from one of the President's three official inaugural balls and is telling me about how splendid her night has been. She even met Mike Tyson and Conor McGregor. She's surprised. She admits that despite the horrible traffic and the freezing weather, it's been a no drama weekend. Quote. I haven't heard anyone complain, she said, almost shrieking with laughter. The vibes are just really positive.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

And they're at a party that's at a bar called Butterworths, which is a terrible name for a bar that's like classic dc to have a bar named Butterworth's is like, that's all you need to know.

[Chelsea Devante]

One thing we specifically have to talk about is that this article specifically writes everyone here is hot and good looking and all I could think about was.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

The pictures that were included in the articles. Yes, the scrolling through the photos that tell a very different story. I want to interview the photographer because I feel like the photographer understood the assignment and was telling a very different story. The photographer, they used like a very like harsh flash. So you see like every like wrinkle and like curve of these people's greasy faces. And then the writer. I don't know what the like political equivalent of like a pick me is, but like I feel like they were trying to like get in with these people. At least in terms of the writing.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yes. Okay, I'm gonna read the actual quote. The people here at this party, they are crypto nerds and influencer girlies and recent Maha converts and gays of all stripes plus your standard fare. Rogan Listening Bros. Few of them would call themselves Republican lest they be Tarred Rhino. They refer to Their political affiliation almost always as the movement. Some are black sheep of their own family Thanksgiving. Yet they project confidence and they are the relevant ones now. Many are hot enough to be the extras in the upcoming American Psycho remake.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I wrote. What? Where? Interview the photographer.

[Chelsea Devante]

Interview the photographer. And I'm going to post pictures on my Patreon. One of the photos, a guy is covered in sweat or beer.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

His body's covered in filth. They're all just like sweaty and boring looking.

[Chelsea Devante]

And that is only important because so many times in the article the writer is telling us that they are classically gorgeous and I'm just like, this is. This makes no sense. Another kind of viral moment about the article is that Brock had written that most of the people at these parties were white. And then a conservative commentator, you know, on X and all the platforms said that the COVID story photo was cropped to crop out all of the black people and make the MAGA movement seem like they were racist. And then the guy who hosted the party, his name is CJ Pearson, he's the co chair of the Republican National Committee Youth Advisory Council. He was co hosting the party and he went online and said that, you know, I was co hosting the party and I am a black man and like, why am I not in any of the photos? And so then, you know, New York magazine or someone put up the full photo that was cropped. And it's true, the guy hosting the party is black. And then it seems as if this cover photo had cropped out three black people, which makes four black people at a 300 person white person.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

That looks like the end of the Shining. It's like that many people in this photo. Yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Devante]

It's like, yes, New York magazine cropped out the few black people in this photo. Maybe it was on purpose. Maybe not. Though if you are the photographer, the center of the action would definitely call for the crop that they made that part of the photo like wasn't really catching anyone in action. And still the article's not incorrect. It is still like Brock wrote, mostly white people.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Yeah. It's also Washington D.C. which has a huge African American population. Like, it's ridiculous.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

They wrote the men look like Pete Hegseth in bow ties and black suits with clean shaven faces. The women are almost all out of their league. And I'm like, no, disagree. As I was once informed, quote, these young conservative parties are 80% men and 20% the most beautiful women you've ever seen.

[Chelsea Devante]

That is the pitch for Ashley Madison where the women ended up being bots, you fudgeing morons. The women are the hottest you've ever seen in your life. Come on. Like it is. It's just an egregious lie. We all have eyeballs, okay? Because of the society we grew up in. We all grew up being told what classic hotness looks like. If this was a Victoria's Secret fashion show at the rnc, we would all know about it. And I am looking at these photos and not a one of these people would be recruited to fold shirts in an Abercrombie and Fitch store, okay? And that is. That is the level of white hotness that Republicans brought to us in the early aughts. And these people are not meeting their own expectations that they unfairly set up. And what makes me angry is just that the article is lying. Like, I don't actually care what they look like, but I do care.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

You care about journalistic?

[Chelsea Devante]

I care about journalistic integrity. We have fun. Says a 31 year old influencer. What does a conservative even look like anymore? Well, I'm looking at a picture of the guy who hosted the party and that's someone I would never want to speak to in my life. It's so crazy to be in a room full of losers and try and tell us that it's cool. The writer Brock says, like, oh, it includes tech overlords. Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos. Um, I'm sorry, do you mean the socially and physically inept trio that are so down bad for validation? One of them wore a cowboy hat to ride into space for 30 seconds only because the other two couldn't make it there fast enough. I mean, like, what are we talking about?

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I think this is what's so frustrating is I wrote down we lost, but they're losers. And I think that's what's so frustrating is like, we lost to losers. And like, there's just no way around that. You can't. You have to take the link. That's what happened. That's just what it is. But it's like, so frustrating. And I think processing it by rewriting reality in this article is driving me a little crazy. They said it's unclear who is serious about their beliefs and who is a grifter doing this for the bit. And they talk about them like all being like chronically online. So much of this feels like marketing. Like there was a part where they're like, Trump's gone in four years. We need to think about the future. Like, where is this gonna go? And it didn't feel like that person was asking that question politically. It felt very much like they were saying, how do we keep this marketing imagery going? Yes.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah, absolutely. The writer even talks about how the new young alt right is wildly different from like your Kimberly Gargoyles and your Melanias.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Right, Gil Foil. Did you mean to say Gargoyle?

[Chelsea Devante]

I sure did. Oops, I mispronounced it. They write the Young Conservative Party. Their makeup is subtle, their hair is only gently blown out, their faces not noticeably botoxed. All in all, they are less yassified than the older women in their party. In this house, Melania is mother. Don't teach them how to say Melania is mother Rock.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Don't give them that.

[Chelsea Devante]

That is, again, you can't say they're cool when you steal that from progressives.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I am an elder elder millennial, but I do think using mother in print is like, on fleek level of like, it's just don't do it. And it's not just don't do it. You're ruining it and it's ruined now. I think what they're trying to do is distance themselves in the same way the Richard Spencers were like, I wear a suit and I shave and I, like, play pickleball or whatever. Like, I can't be crazy. And it's sort legitimizes the movement. So they say, like, I'm just like you.

[Chelsea Devante]

Like, I'm not fringe. I'm cool and hip and young.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

It's totally fine. You can totally be like a city fi New Yorker and vote for Trump. Like, it's not bad. You know, there was a part in the article where they were like, there's a giant party and there's the Log Cabin Republicans. They're like, asking them, like, why didn't you have your own party? And he was like, oh, there was no need. Like, there's so many, like, other places we can go. And then it said the room also made it all too clear just how big the party's 10 had become. Posters around the room read conservationist conservative over an image of Trump riding a buffalo. It's finally popping off. A beefcake lawyer who represents Jewish students suing their university over pro Palestine protests, who screamed at me when a song he liked came on. A frat boy from Georgetown, Gross. Lording over a table, told me he's here because he's Catholic. I really don't like abortion. I hate abortion, he said at the bar was a DJ3 Lau in town to spin at Trump's ball. I voted for Big D because of crypto, free speech and the Constitution, he said, and like, that is a big tent party. They found a way to convince these people, even if it's a lie. And obviously, like conservation is not conservative, but like, they found a way to make that okay. And I feel like we have not found a way to do that. And I don't think the way to do that is to just throw marginalized groups under the bus and tell everyone to just deal with it. But there has to be a way for us to entice people to our message. If these fucking losers from my high school can like find a way to like throw that rager, it's like, it's like a Will Ferrell movie. I feel like Vince Vaughn and old school and I'm just like, how do I get people to come to this party? There has to be a way to like attract that vibe. Yes. And we're definitely not doing that. And that was the thing that did frustrate me while reading this article.

[Chelsea Devante]

I agree that we've made it very hard to participate as a progressive in a multitude of ways, even down to like to be a Republican. All you had to say was tariffs are going to fix the economy, right? So easy to be a Democrat. Do you know what you had to say? So we're in a K shaped economy and it did do a good job.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

It should. The thing of like actually, like, I know it doesn't feel good, but like.

[Chelsea Devante]

The numbers wise is actually, it was just so complicated and hard. And I do think the job of people who are creative are to make the right thing look fucking fun and accessible. And so I'll read this from the article later. A former Bernie supporter, parentheses, who looked like the most Bernie supporting person one could imagine, with long curly hair and a plaid shirt, told me the same. He wanted freedom to say some offensive terms that are in print that I'm, I'm like, you know, yeah, I am that person who doesn't want to say those. And then later in the article, this becomes a big point of Brock's, the writer saying like, I want to say those terms and like, have fun and like, this is fun for me and I get to say it in all my group chats and like, that is super fun. And then they make this allusion to like losing friends over their beliefs about Gaza, but they don't say what those beliefs are. I did try and look them up and I, I could not find it. For me, the headline of this article shouldn't have been they're hot, young, and fun. It should have been. They're young, they lack critical thinking skills, and they are wildly confident. And what is more fun than a dumb confident person?

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

100%.

[Chelsea Devante]

And that just, like, really wasn't taken apart. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be right back.

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[Chelsea Devante]

Okay, let's dive back into the episode. There's something that you said to me in a phone call that I want you to talk about again here. And I think your brother had said it.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Yes, I was talking to my brother because we were talking about this. You remember that 30 Rock scene where she's like, ain't no party. Like a Liz Lemon party, because a Liz Lemon party is mandatory. I was like, I feel like that is the Democratic Party. And I was like, we need to figure out a way to be those people. But I'm like, I and myself am like, everyone leaves at nine, right? I am that person. I fully get, like, why we are here. And they said, the thing with conservatives is when you fuck up and you say the wrong thing or you get canceled or you, whatever they say, like, hey, man, it's okay. We'll. We'll take you. We don't mind. We, you know, pick any, like, comedian you think has played out whatever, or saying crazy things like Roseanne, they're like, we'll take you. And that is giving someone grace. And liberals are, like, obsessed with, give that person grace. And, like, you know what? All the gentle parenting stuff that I've been taught to do and everything is like, you know, no shaming and no judging. But then the second we say something wrong, you like, shame and judge. And there's no off ramp to that experience. There's no, like, pathway to rehabilitation. There's no prescription for what to do. It felt so good to, like, call people out and call people in. I'm not even calling you out. I'm calling you in. And, like, I think there's a bunch of people that are like, I don't want that. If you frame it through a liberal lens of, like, they are giving them grace, whether that's deserved it or not. What environment is more inviting if you're just an average person and you're tired and you're not online all the time, or you are online all the time, but you're, like, not reading or, you know, getting your news. You see this group that's like, I'll take you. I'm also a piece of trash. Like, glamorous trash. Look at that, like, as an ethos of, like, I'm trash and you're trash, and let's be trash together. They have found a way to do that that I think people were like, as much as I don't agree with this, or I am a woman who wants. That's my right to choice. But it feels good to not have to, like, feel bad all the time. And I think the reason why we haven't bounced back is because we haven't processed, like, how bad we're feeling and how do we get out of it and, like, make it fun.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah. And I want to read a quote from the article that goes with what you're saying, which thank you so much for repeating that. They wrote some members of the crowd would admit to what they see as this coalition's unsavory parts, say how creepy the men can be, but refused to do so on the record. Best not to cannibalize. They agreed when the going is good. And it made me think specifically of the democratic movement where we will cannibalize. Like, it's the main agenda point before.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

You can even get started with the conversation. Yeah. There's like a fight or a. Let me tell you why what you're doing is wrong.

[Chelsea Devante]

But you didn't lead with this or you didn't say this, therefore, like, the entire thing is awash.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Yes. And I think if you couple it with another quote from the article that says attention is power. They said this is an influencer economy that kind of, like, backbiting and constant fighting. People will not pay attention to that. We don't want that right now.

[Chelsea Devante]

Right. And I think we did for a moment.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I think it had its moment. And I also think it began from a place of actually hoping people would, like, be better and learn.

[Chelsea Devante]

And it was exciting. People wanted to hear about the shit they've ignored for a hundred years of white supremacy. It was like, oh, my God, please learn how fucked up this is.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

And I also think a bunch of people, like, didn't know, you know, but, like, I was in a situation where I was in a. An online group. I won't specify the Demographic, But I was asking for suggestions on, like, a personal trainer, you know, and this white woman policed my speech and said I was using, like, an oppressor's words or something. And I was like, girl, I'm like, I have diabetes, all right? I'm, like, going through shit right now. I'm sorry I didn't say it in the perfect way. Like, go off on me, I guess, if that makes you feel better. But you've got to be out of your. And I just, like, read her for filth. And then everyone was like, how dare you talk to this indigenous one? I was like, I'm not even looking for that either. Like, it just was, like, such a mess. Or you could have just answered my question.

[Chelsea Devante]

You're just like, I just want a personal trainer and I'm too exhausted to ever work out again.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Like. Or you could have just given me the benefit of the doubt. Like, I feel like I give people and, like, at least try to give people, you know? And so I don't know. I think there's something interesting about this where, like, they're all giving each other the benefit of the doubt in a way that I wish we could do without it immediately being written off as, like, so you're just okay with that, then? It's like, no, obviously I'm not okay with that. Obviously, I don't agree with this person's beliefs or I don't want anyone to feel, like, so marginalized that they can't live their life. But I go through my day having to compromise, and there's, like, no feeling of that right now because everyone's hurt and everyone's pissed and everyone has an idea of why this all happened. And I think we'll get there. But I just wish there was, like, a little bit more just grace for each other.

[Chelsea Devante]

That harkens back to a point that was made in this article that was one of the better points, which is that that those parts of our values have flipped. It used to be that conservatives had.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

No grace and arguably still don't. And it's also like, not having grace to freaking deport everyone. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not saying, like, they're great people. I'm just in terms of coalition building.

[Chelsea Devante]

Coalition building. And actually, it's quite surface. So all of their grace is surface. You can say up words. You can say whatever you want. You can party whoever you want. You can not have to do any of that surface work to think past what the fuck tariffs are. However, the people really behind that party have now used all of that easy surfaceness to deport people, to vote against your rights to have Brock at the party, who is a queer person who identifies with they them and hang out with Brock. There's quotes in the article where they say, this is Brock. They're a queer, but like a good one. See, they'll party with one queer person and six black people, right? Yes. And vote for your fucking death and demise. And I think over here, like Democrats, progressives, underneath it all is where the true grace is. We are voting for your rights, for your safety, for all the water to not be owned by one weird lady. But the surface grace is not there. And that's the easier shit to give.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I think a third of the people in this country voted for him. A third of the people didn't. And then there's this weird soup in the middle and we don't know how to get their ears. I thought that was interesting in this article where they were like, while they were courting Beyonce and Taylor Swift, the right was like courting all of these sort of mid level influencers and getting them on their side. And I do think that that was something that like we fucked up on, where it's like, we thought, we have Oprah and Beyonce and Taylor, we'll be fine. And then not realizing that the woman who's teaching me how to make pesto chicken salad, I feel closer to that person than I do to Beyonce. And I love Beyonce. No one loves her more than like, please. But like her telling me what to do versus a standup comedian that I like, that I see constantly because I'm listening to their podcast every week. It was shocking to me. Certain standup podcasts I listened to where I was like, oh, he's a Trump supporter. Like, how did I miss that? We just did not do a good job of making it fun enough that people would want to come to our party. And I think that there's something to be said for just the marketing of it as critical people are of Obama in that time. It was so fun. It was like you were young. And I remember fighting with my mom cause she was like a Hillary supporter and I was just like, no, I think this dude rules. And I really like this and it's gonna be great. And like when he won, people came out of their houses and were like banging pots and pans. There was like drum lines in D.C. during the inauguration when he was sworn in, I hugged a stranger that was standing next to me. It was the most fun. You could Ever have. And then obviously things and people have problems and da, da, da. But, like, I do think that there's a feeling of the concept of, like, hope and all these things have gotten co opted and sort of misaligned and people just don't trust it. Like, people don't trust those feelings. And I fully get it. But I do think there's something to, like, what do I want to do with my day? And, like, how do we infiltrate those spaces?

[Chelsea Devante]

The thing that scares me about this article is that the takeaway will be again, like, they're young and cool and your side part is cringe. And that's why we lost the election the same way in 2016. It was. Oh, it was because you were in a bubble and there's bubbles. It's just like, yes, going forward, if anything can happen in four years, it will be because we did the thing that was actually effective. And actually the problem that I feel like articles like this blur what the actual issue was. I hate these articles because it's like, this is everybody now. It's like, it's not the numbers, my friend. It's not the data. They're not the majority.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

They're not.

[Chelsea Devante]

The majority is a non Trump voter. Kamala with the other third of the soup. No one wants this. No one wants this. So why are you focusing and making headlines? Everyone wanted this. No, they didn't.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Well, this is my, like, tinfoil hat. It's because the media wants it.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yes.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

It's much more exciting to report on this. It's much more clickbaity. They're exciting and they're fun to click on. And, like, you can't help yourself and you can't pull yourself away. I think that that's what's so frustrating about all of this, is like trying to find a unified reality. I think there are interesting conversations in this article, but I also think exactly what you're saying is, like, every time a conservative wins, an article like this comes out that chastises us and just heroizes, you know, these people.

[Chelsea Devante]

And it's written by an us, a bunch of liberal people who want the clicks go and write the articles to shit on the party the most. And it's like, y'all, this is the whole thing. They don't write those articles about themselves.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

No, they don't. Because they don't cannibalize themselves. Yeah, I'm like. And I don't know, this is also to my, like, derpal Southwest upbringing, which I don't know if you can also agree with which Is like, even if this family member's a piece of shit, you don't get to talk shit about my family. It's like Real Housewives, and we don't have that.

[Chelsea Devante]

We don't have that. We need to be Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, where, like, all of those women disagree, some of them different pieces of shit in varying degrees. But when Monica comes in and is like, I hate you guys, they band together and they're like, you are not of us.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I do think there are folks like Representative Jasmine Crockett representing Houston. I feel like she has done an incredible job. I think AOC obviously, is someone who does this as well, of just saying exactly what she thinks as she thinks it and having true values and convictions, but also not going against the party in the way that, like, she will back up her fellow Congress people and will defend democracy as a concept, you know what I'm saying? Which is, like, where we are. And those are the people I'm really trying to find in my party. And I think there's something to, like my family members and I talk about this all the time. Growing up in the Southwest, I don't hate the American flag. I don't hate Fourth of July. I don't hate some of these holidays. And, like, it actually bothers me when Republicans wear the American flag, like, as a blazer or as something, because I'm like, my grandfather was a Marine. He, like, doctored his birth certificate to fight in World War II. He was, like, 15 when he enlisted in the Marines. And so I actually don't like when people use the flag of, like, a towel. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? But. But I also am like, I want my kids to like that iconography because we have to own those American things, or else they are going to take them and completely make them into something that they're not. And I also like seeing protests where there's a Mexican flag and a trans flag. Like, I'm four flags. But I think that there's something to, like, genuinely trying to stump for your team and not falling in love with politicians. Not falling, whatever. But I think, like, rallying, like you said, like a gang. Like the cookies. Like, people love being a cookie. It's community, right? And I think that there's, like, something to finding a way to kind of mirror that in what we're making and what we're doing and kind of opening that up.

[Chelsea Devante]

Right. And it doesn't mean not being critical of Kamala or the Democrats or wanting more progressiveness.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Absolutely.

[Chelsea Devante]

It's just, how are you going about the way you want to affect change? And is it actually affecting change? Okay, so Brock. I went to Brock's Instagram because I was like, who wrote this? I think they're 24, but if not 24. Close. But you know how I feel about a listicle. I believe a personality can be distilled in a listicle. Like, it's my astrology. I love The Us Weekly, 25 things for this reason. And I found a list of things that this writer hates. Let me read them to you. Number one, fawning celebrity profiles.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Okay.

[Chelsea Devante]

But you will jack off the Republican Party. Okay. Friend groups, especially when they involve a group chat with a dumb name.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

So no one invites you to group chats.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah. Catching up over FaceTime. I. I don't know. Gay men and crop tops. Honestly, rude. Why are you taking abs away from us? Are you fucking kidding me?

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Do you also hate ice cream and Disneyland?

[Chelsea Devante]

And number eight, gaylords who think Taylor Swift is queer. Number nine, most woke speak slash social justice lingo. Number 10, when the lube gets everywhere. That's kind of the only point of Brock's that I agree with. I think this entire article was written from the idea that woke speech and social justice lingo has become a talking point and a weapon decimating us. Where, like, the fires were caused by wokeness, the air traffic control was caused by wokeness. And it's. It's like this thing that was meant for good became the ultimate weapon. And I will say, personally, I've watched some of the people who made careers off of being woke clout people are the least woke people I know.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

It turns everything into a, like, merit badge based economy where, like, if I do xyz, I get to this level and then I'm a full Satan. Like, I don't know. It's just like. And it wastes time. It really wastes time. Which we don't have.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

And it doesn't feel good. And so for me, I'm like. And I used to be the biggest, like, don't say that word and don't do this. And da, da, da, da. And like, the second he won, I was like, I'm not doing any of it. I'm done. Like, I'm done wasting my time because like you said, it didn't work.

[Chelsea Devante]

It didn't work.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Clearly it didn't work if this man won. And I'm just going to focus on the things that are around me and the communities that are around me. And like, do My best. But there is an element to this of just like. Like, does it feel good? And I don't want to create things right now. I worked on a lot of television shows, but, like, the one show that all my cousins back home talk about or that, like, people reach out to talking about is Superstore. And, like, people loved seeing themselves on screen. A lot of my family had, like, worked at Target and worked at Walmart and stuff, and they were like. It was so. It was like seeing themselves be the protagonist in their story and seeing them feel like the heroes and the trials and tribulations and some things you could relate to and some things you couldn't. But, like, it just felt good, you know? And so they watched it in a way that I think, like, they didn't totally connect to some of the other shows I've written on. And I just. Like, you were saying, like, in the stories that we're telling and in the stories that we're doing, wanting to make things that make people feel good and that not being, like, criticized completely. Cause everyone's saying, like, joy is resistance, and, like, obviously don't just do joy and blah, blah, blah. But I don't. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

[Chelsea Devante]

It does. I think one of the most frustrating things about joy is resistance, which was, like, one of the most popular phrases from 2016, is, like, it is if you do the joy part, and you did it, you did it. And also, it's not like, you can't just be like, well, I'm happy drinking my latte. Like, that's not ever what it didn't mean. You be happy and don't actually do any activism. Don't actually do any work. I think it goes back to a very simple business concept that I've been thinking about a lot, which is, like, one kid is selling lemonade. Right. That came from, I don't know, an oil spill. Right. And the other kid is selling real lemonade, but the oil spill one is 10 times cheaper. It's closer to you, and you can pay with a fist bump. And the one made out of real lemonade cost $10,000. And you fill out nine forms. You're probably buying the poison lemonade. And so it's like, we have.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

You're just not buying lemonade.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Opting out.

[Chelsea Devante]

And so it sucks. But we have to make the right thing doable.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devante]

And interesting and engaging. And, like, that applies to literally everything in life.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Yes. As someone who, as you all know, does not read anymore because I love my phone And I have children being a part of the glamorous trash community. And like, this, like, I'm reading books now, and I never thought that I would, but it did seem like, okay, I could do this. They're talking about these things, and I want to know what's going on in them. And I'm going to read to, like, stay abreast. And, like, sometimes I'll listen to the book versus read it. But, like, I don't know, man. I feel like I'm just like your standard Tucson dummy. We got to just find a way to make people feel like they are capable of this moment, that they can meet this moment versus convincing them of why we're right. It's like coalition building is like, convincing someone to hang out with you. And, like, we always hear about this in, like, writers rooms. Like, the first advice you get when you're staffing, they're like, do I want to be in a room for eight hours with this person? Because they're like, it doesn't matter how talented they are as a writer. If they're annoying or weird or they're rude or they talk over you, they're like, yeah, like, you just don't want to be around those people. And I think there's. There's got to be, like, a one, two punch of, like, reminding everyone that these people are losers. Like, hashtag, never forget.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah, do not normalize this. Do not normalize that. This is normal and fun and cool. They are lying. Have some critical thinking skills.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Yeah, they are losers. Because as someone who does want to go back to some sort of, like, South Park 2011 humor sometimes, none of these jokes made me laugh, and they're that. You know what I'm saying? I get the urge to want to go back, but none of these jokes were funny. So I do think, like, we have something of, like, we can change hearts and minds in that way. And then also I think just remembering to try to make it fun enough that people want to do it.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah, totally. Also, if someone else had attended this party who wasn't 24, who didn't, as part of the article, say, I want to fit in, I think they would have written, like, the music sucked. The beer was gross. These dudes are trying to assault me. And, like, there are more fun parties out there. I know that. I know that from looking at the photos.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Like, yeah, I don't think you send the person who's pretending to be afraid of group chats into this environment.

[Chelsea Devante]

No. Okay, so, Sierra, I want to end this podcast by Asking one question. Should people read this article?

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

No.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah, I'm a no too. Like, it's really long for the point it's trying to make, which is just like they're cool guys even though they're not.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I would look at the photos.

[Chelsea Devante]

Yeah, I would look at the photos. And I will post the photos on Patreon. Yeah, I am also a no. Hard no. If you heard this episode, you've heard everything in the article. But I am going to recommend a different article in place of this. I will link it in the show notes. It's called, yeah, this is a coup published by Laura Bassett on Nightcap. A substack. And that article actually goes into the role that young people are playing in this party, including how Elon Musk broke into the federal government and used a 19 year old conservative who goes by the name Big Balls to help him break into some of the federal agencies and take over these funds.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Is that the really skinny one?

[Chelsea Devante]

This is. It's just like this kid can't be the face of the party. And also whoever Brock Coylar is describing.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Like, oh, good God.

[Chelsea Devante]

Oh my God. Sierra, thank you so much for coming on. Tell people where they can find you and follow you.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

I'm on at Sierra Analysis at Instagram, but I'm trying to get off and that's my trip.

[Chelsea Devante]

Where are you trying to get off? Where are you going? Go to Slevsk. Go to nothing, baby.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

My family, we're doing Screenless Mondays where we just don't, don't do screens. I listened to the fucking radio. It was awesome. I could use GPS and screens for work, but not being on social media, not knowing what was going on. And then the next day finding out that I could read two articles and catch up and was like, didn't miss much. Had much more patience for my children, Liked my husband more. Like, it was wild. The sort of like Flowers for Algernon experience I had on my day.

[Chelsea Devante]

Sarah, thank you so much for coming on. I know I'm gonna beg you to come back, like all the time and just discuss an article with me and if you like this episode, please tell me. But also, I like it so much. I think I'm just gonna do it no matter what. But would love to hear from you if you liked it. But I want to recap more articles, more viral articles. It's stuff that's on my mind. It's trashy, it's literary. It feels like it's the brand, right?

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Very much.

[Chelsea Devante]

Okay, go find, see her on Instagram. Even though she's leaving.

[Sierra Tella Ornellis]

Thank you.

[Chelsea Devante]

Bye. A huge thank you to our podcast producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to let you know that if you love audiobooks, but you want to support independent bookstores, go to Libro fm, where it is easy to download audiobooks and support local bookshops. And right now, you get two Libro FM audiobooks for the price of one with your first month of membership using code Trash. That's right, Trash. T R A, S H. Two audiobooks for the price of one at Libro fm. And if you have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.