Viral Article Book Club: Wedding Cake Smashes, Red Flags, and the Culture of Humiliation

Summary

Glamorous Trash: Celebrity Memoir Podcast

Episode: Viral Article Book Club — Wedding Cake Smashes, Red Flags, and the Culture of Humiliation

Host: Tracy Thomas (guest hosting for Chelsea Devantez)
Guest: Rachel Lindsay
Date: September 26, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives into Carli Lewis’s viral article, “The Groom Smashing Wedding Cake in Their Bride’s Faces: When the Happiest Day of Your Life Takes a Violent Turn” (The Cut), unpacking the disturbing social phenomenon of increasingly aggressive wedding cake smashes. Tracy Thomas and guest Rachel Lindsay reflect on what fuels this trend, how it connects to gender politics, the culture of public humiliation, viral social media incentives, and broader questions about patriarchy and consent.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why This Article Matters (04:40, 06:17)

• Tracy identifies the “cake smash” as her “Roman Empire”—an obsession-level phenomenon that “expresses everything going on in America right now: gender politics, economics, male loneliness, abortion rights, a woman’s right to choose… It’s about controlling and putting women in their place.”
• Rachel is initially disturbed and wants to block the trend out, seeing it as an inescapable intrusion of patriarchy even into joyful symbolic moments.

“We can't escape the patriarchy, even when it comes to cake.”
— Rachel Lindsay (06:54)

---

2. The Cake Smash: From Cute Tradition to Violent Trend (05:43, 10:05)

• Tracy clarifies: The issue isn’t playful, mutually agreed-upon cake-smearing, but aggressive, non-consensual cake attacks, often shocking and humiliating the bride.
• Example: Mila’s story, where her husband “shoved his palm from the bottom of her chin to her forehead... held her by the neck, thrashing another mound into her face” highlighting the escalation from play to violence.

“I care about it deeply… It is the perfect expression of what's going on in America.”
— Tracy Thomas (05:43)

---

3. Gender, Power, and Consent (12:02, 13:22, 16:28, 24:46)

• Importance of the wedding day to the bride, investment in makeup, dress, and the expectation of a happy, glamorous tradition.
• Guests reflect on how the humiliation forced upon brides is both a personal and social affront.
• Deep dive into the emotional labor of women, forced to maintain composure “to not ruin the day” while men are excused as “it was just for fun.”

“You should be mad right now. You have every right to be furious. And your husband has done this on a day where you, like, can't do that… You can’t be the asshole.”
— Tracy Thomas (16:28)

---

4. Cultural and Racial Dimensions (18:03, 18:14)

• Rachel: The viral videos overwhelmingly feature white couples—“There was a through line. There was a common denominator.”
• Not absolving anyone from patriarchal behavior, but recognizing “there is something cultural to what we're seeing here.”

“It's a cultural thing… this is not absolving anyone... but… there is something like cultural to what we're seeing here.”
— Tracy Thomas (18:25)

---

5. History and Symbolism (20:23)

• Cake rituals date back to Ancient Rome. The original symbolism was dominance and fertility, later shifting to (at least nominal) reciprocity.
• Modern cake smashing marks a return to dominance rather than partnership.

“What we're seeing now is somehow clearly tied to the roots, even if people don't know the roots.”
— Tracy Thomas (24:24)

---

6. Social Media, Virality, and the Culture of Humiliation (07:46, 45:49)

• Rachel: People are “willing to do anything for a viral moment,” even at the cost of humiliating loved ones.
• Tracy: The quest for viral content (trad wives, influencer culture) ties into the culture of public spectacle and humiliation.

“Not everything has to be content. …They're willing to do this to a person in your real life for clicks from strangers? We have a serious social media problem.”
— Tracy Thomas (45:49)

---

7. Psychology of Male Dominance & Vulnerability (29:55, 33:38)

• Some men feel sidelined on the wedding day, which is “all about the bride.” Aggressive cake smashing becomes a way to reclaim attention and dominance.
• Clinical psychologist Michael Brustein is cited: This may reflect an “unconscious fear that marriage leads to a loss of self... pleasure in saying, I'm still a man and I'm still dominant.”

“He says, ‘Weddings aren't just for the bride. The groom should get to have a preference here and there. I was pretty adamant, like, no, we are doing the cake thing.’”
— Tracy Thomas quoting Liam from the article (33:38)

---

8. Domestic Violence: Red Flags & Boundaries (38:19, 39:36, 40:17)

• Rachel: This behavior is often a red flag for a pattern of disrespect or control—“it's assault.”
• Both hosts agree: While not every violent cake smash predicts domestic violence, it signals troubling dynamics of consent, respect, and power.
• In some cases, the incident was the “beginning of the end” for the relationship.

“If a man behaved in this way without a cake on a different day, in front of people, there would be real questions asked.”
— Tracy Thomas (37:38)

---

9. Patriarchy, the Political Moment, and Women’s Autonomy (46:40, 47:33, 51:27)

• Tracy: The cake smash is emblematic of current politics—women’s bodies as contested, consent disregarded, the “swing to the right” and a resurgence of rigid gender roles.
• Rachel references “complacency” among women as a pillar enabling patriarchy, urging listeners to recognize their power, draw boundaries, and speak up.

“In a world where women had full power and autonomy for their bodies, we would not have the same issue.”
— Tracy Thomas (47:33)

“It is bigger than just talking about a cake toss, this silly thing. It's what men and women represent in American society and how we're kind of backtracking to the good old days, some people might say.”
— Rachel Lindsay (49:41)

---

10. Notable, Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Tracy’s “I could do a whole PhD dissertation on this article. It's my Roman Empire.” (04:03)
• Rachel’s confession: “I wish he had smashed the cake into my face, because then it could have ended all a long time ago.” (10:05)
• Tracy: “Men are allowed to, like, not be considerate. Men are allowed to, like, 'Oh, I didn’t know.’” (19:44)
• Rachel: “If your husband at the dinner table threw a glass of water in your face, you would be like, yo, what the fuck? ...It's assault.” (38:19)
• Tracy on social media: “Not everything has to be content... I promise you we’re not exaggerating.” (44:20)
• Anna’s ex-husband’s final words: “‘I don't know,’ he said. ‘I thought it would be funny.’” (53:32)

---

Section Timestamps

• [04:03] — Tracy’s obsession: why cake smashes matter
• [05:43] — Article summary and core issues
• [10:05] — Mila’s story and real-life experiences
• [16:28] — Emotional labor and humiliation of brides
• [18:03] — Race and culture in cake smash videos
• [20:23] — The origins and symbolism of cake rituals
• [29:55] — Male vulnerability, dominance, and the meaning of attention
• [33:38] — Clinical psychology: male loss of self and assertion of dominance
• [38:19] — Domestic violence, red flags, and boundaries
• [46:40] — The cake smash as a reflection of politics, women’s bodies, and autonomy
• [51:27] — Patriarchy, complacency, speaking up
• [53:32] — Anna’s ex-husband’s “I thought it would be funny”
• [54:46] — Click Lit Quiz: was the article well written; did it deepen your thinking?

---

The Click Lit Quiz Results (54:46)

1. Was the article well written?
   Both agree: Absolutely!
2. Did reading this article make you want to talk or scream about it?
   Tracy: “I will be anywhere and be like, did you know cake smashes are on the rise?”
3. Did reading this article deepen your thinking on this subject?
   Rachel: “It just took it to another level…”

---

Final Thoughts

Both Tracy and Rachel conclude that the cake smash trend encapsulates critical issues facing women and society: humiliation as entertainment, the ongoing reassertion of patriarchal dominance, and the public’s complicity in diminishing women’s power and voice. This isn’t just about cake—it's about who gets to be respected, who gets to define the rules, and how power is performed and perpetuated, one wedding at a time.

Listen and join the discussion on Patreon, especially if you have a cake smash story or thoughts on viral wedding trends.

---

Transcript

[Tracy Thomas]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling.

[Tracy Thomas]

And when it comes to checking off.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you.

[Tracy Thomas]

Whether you prefer talking in person, on.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Race the rudders. Raise the sails.

[Tracy Thomas]

Raise the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger, wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started [e-mail] campaign terms and conditions apply.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Hi, it's me, your host, Chelsea. I am actually away from the podcast right now for a few weeks. I am on set directing my first feature film which I also wrote. If you want to know more about what I am up to, I am updating people on Patreon. Also on Patreon and Apple subscriptions is where you will continue to get your bonus episodes from me every month, just like normal. We already recorded a bunch for you. And in the meantime, our viral article episodes like this one today will be hosted by a favorite guest on this podcast, my book sister and favorite person ever to debate with, Tracy Thomas. I think you're going to love it, so let's dive in and please let us know what you think in the comments.

[Tracy Thomas]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I am your host Tracy Thomas. I'm the host of the Stacks, which is a weekly book podcast where I interview authors authors about their books and host a monthly book club. And today's episode is part of our viral article series where we recap and discuss articles that go wild on the Internet as that too is part of the glamorous trash literary world. On today's agenda is an article that I have not been able to stop thinking about or get out of my head since I read it in August. It's called the Groom smashing wedding cake and their bride's faces when the happiest day of your life takes a violent turn. It is by Carli Lewis and it came out in the cut. Just a quick trigger warning. Today we are going to be talking a little bit about domestic violence so please take care while listening. Okay, let's dive in. Let's get into it. I am thrilled to introduce you to today's guest, my dear friend, the wonderful and amazing Rachel Lindsay. Rachel is an author, attorney, media personality, podcaster, and speaker. She currently coasts the Ringer's Higher Learning Podcast and Morally Corrupt Podcast. She's the first black lead and also the best lead period in the franchise, the history of The Bachelorette. In 2022, Rachel authored a collection of essays titled Miss Me with that hot takes, helpful tidbits, and a few hard truths. And she made her fiction debut with her romance novel Real Love. She also was on this very podcast talking about Kerry Washington's memoir A Little Bit back. We will link to it in the show notes. If you missed it, you can get it. Rachel, welcome back. Are you ready to do Cake Smash?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I know this is gonna be fun. I'm happy to be back again.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm no Chelsea, but I am a good substitute, I feel. Yes, you're great. So we're going to talk about this article. Funnily enough, I read this article in August. I have not stopped thinking about it. I saw you in August. We were hanging out at your house and I was like, I'm guest hosting Chelsea's podcast. Can we talk about Cake Smash? And you were like, yes, of course.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

So it's taken us six weeks, but here we are.

[Rachel Lindsay]

We're here. We're ready to roll. I've gotten down a dark Cake Smash hole.

[Tracy Thomas]

I honestly feel that I could do a full PhD dissertation on this one article. Like, this feels like my Roman Empire. I think about it every day. I care about it deeply.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What is it about it that makes you cause. Like, it's disturbing to me. And because it is so disturbing, I actually put it out of my mind. We had the conversation before. I was like, what is this? This is really a thing. Like, I truly thought it was a joke. And because it bothers me so much, I absolutely refuse to think about it. Why is it so at the forefront of your mind? Why is this your Roman Empire?

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, before I tell you why, I'm gonna quickly tell our listeners what the article is and then we'll get into it. So this article, it's basically about the rise of men violently and aggressively, not cutely, not being cute, not a little finger rub, but. But smashing wedding cake in the face of their wives on their literal wedding day. The article is in the cut. It was written by Harley Lewis. It came out in August, again. I think about it every day over overreachingly. The reason that I think about it every day is because I think that it is the perfect expression of what is going on in America right now. To me, it is like everything we're talking about is in this one hateful action. Like, it's gender politics, it's economics, it's about male loneliness, it's about connection. It's a little bit about race, I think, a little bit here.

[Rachel Lindsay]

A lot of it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I think we could talk about that, too. So, to me, it's just something that I'm constantly thinking about of. Like, it's about abortion rights. It's about a woman's right to choose. For sure, for sure. It's about controlling and putting women in their place and saying that men get to do to women what men want to do to women when they want to do it. And that is directly tied to what we're seeing with abortion. So I feel like it's tied to a lot of things. I know that I am an overthinker and a real big nerd, but this is like the culmination of my life's work.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Listen, it's beautifully put. No, you're not overthinking. This is why you have success in so many areas. The way you pointed out, it makes a lot of sense. I simply looked at it and I was like, oh, here we go again. You can't even have something that is symbolic. Even though I guess historically, when reading the article, there's a history to this. But symbolically, this is supposed to be something that is cute, a photo op. And still the patriarchy seeps its way into what is supposed to be a beautiful moment, a beautiful dessert, a beautiful time between a man and a wife. I simply was like, oh, here we go. We can't escape the patriarchy, even when it comes to cake. That's how I looked at it.

[Tracy Thomas]

I agree. I agree. And I think. And we'll talk about this in a little bit. I think it's no accident that this is on the rise right now. Like, I genuinely think it is tied to the political moment because, like, you know, it's big on social media, which I totally get. Like, I get why people do this on social media for the likes or whatever. But it's not like social media was invented yesterday and it was not big in 2015. And we've been having weddings, we've been having cake smashes, we've been having social media. So the fact that it's like this thing Thing right now. Not an accident. I'm just saying it's definitely.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I would say a 2023, 2024 thing is when you really started to pick up. But then I could also. Yes, you're right. It totally contributes to what's happening in society right now. It contributes to, I think you did say the male loneliness epidemic.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But it does speak to a growing concern in our society as well, which is what people are willing to do to go viral. What they're like, at any cost, they will do anything for a viral moment. They will sacrifice their partner, love, their integrity, everything possible to go viral. And I think that speaks to. And maybe that does contribute to the male loneliness epidemic. We don't have social awareness skills anymore. And we lack conversation and we lack just like human decency in the sense of considering what somebody else may feel or what they're going through. All to please people that we don't even know and we never will. I just wanna say, before you dive in, do you see a cake and you're like, no.

[Tracy Thomas]

I love cake so much. Cake is the most important food to me.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay. Okay. I didn't know if, like, you would dug cake after this.

[Tracy Thomas]

No, I love cake. I only go to weddings for the cake.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's hilarious. I never eat it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, I always do. And I judge you aggressively. If your cake is gross, I'm like, oh, you think you could just throw this afterthought of a cake at me? How dare.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Wait, I have. Wait, one more question. I know you have in the article, but have you ever witnessed this live?

[Tracy Thomas]

Not an aggressive cake smash.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay. Okay, me neither.

[Tracy Thomas]

Did you do a cake smash at your wedding?

[Rachel Lindsay]

I barely remember. We definitely did do a cake smash, but I feel like we forgot about the cake. And so my wedding planner was like, hey, you have to cut the cake. We were like, oh. So no one was really around. It was like, we did it for a photo op.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's what we did. Yeah. I actually told our wedding planner and my husband, I said, there will not be cake on my face. Okay. This is the best I'm ever gonna look in my life. I don't want anything on my face. I don't even want my husband to kiss me. You're gonna mess up my lipstick. So we went off to the side, didn't tell anybody, quickly cut the cake, took a picture, and then I think we fed each other, but it was like, I was like, don't get it on me. And that was it. And I was like, yeah, it's deeply Important to me that you don't put fucking cake on my face.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I didn't know to have that conversation before. I did not realize. And I was married in 2019. Closer to it, I didn't know that I should say. Thank God. He clearly didn't either. I didn't know I should say, hey, we're not doing this.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, well, I feel like I've known for a long time that sometimes, like, they'll, like, rub the cake. Like, little finger, like, ooh. Or, like, put frosting on someone's nose. Like, a little, like, cutie. Like, I don't like any of it. Don't touch my face, actually is a good rule.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I'm going to make a confession here before we get an article. I wish he had smashed the cake into my face, because then it could.

[Tracy Thomas]

Have ended all a long time ago. I wish he would have done that. Okay with that, let's dive in, because we do. We get all of this. So the article starts with Mila, and I'm just gonna read from the second paragraph. So first of all, what you need to know about Mila is she didn't even want a wedding. She wanted to elope. Her husband was like, let's have a wedding. So they have a small garden party. Then this is the second paragraph. As Mila and her new husband cut into their raspberry lemon cake, guests circled around snapping photos, and he snatched a handful, shoving his palm from the bottom of her chin to her forehead in shock. With cake stuck to her eyelashes and up her nose, she tried to back away. He held her by the neck, thrashing another mound into her face. Thrashing, thrashing. First of all, I love the writing in this piece. Like, the fact that we also get every flavor of cake in each different example. It's like, there's an almond cake. There's a raspberry lemon cake. Like, let's not forget the cake.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, it's important because I see the raspberry, and I'm like, color. That's gonna stay. That's why I love. I love the detail, too. Like, you can visualize everything. I felt it. I felt it.

[Tracy Thomas]

I love the writing in this piece. The cake is also important because, as we both know as people who have planned weddings, and this is, to me, the least offensive part of all of this, but worth noting, the amount of choices that you have to make for a fucking wedding, the different kinds of cake. At some point, there's a conversation of, is it raspberry Lem or is it blueberry lemon? Is it Vanilla Chantilly. Is it like, there's all these stupid conversations that someone has to make a decision about? Not to gender stereotype or whatever or generalize, but in every wedding, no matter the gender makeup, there's always a bride.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

And then there is the other person who is attending the wedding and getting married. That person doesn't even really have a name. We call it a groom. But, like, it's really just about the bride.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

And the bride has made this decision. The bride has made every decision. The bride has picked their outfit. The bride has most likely gotten hair and makeup done. Done. These things are not cheap. The bride has visualized this day as the happiest day of their life. And the bride does not visualize or anticipate getting cake in. There's another line where it's like, scraping fondant out of her sinuses.

[Rachel Lindsay]

He uppercut her. I just, like, don't know where to start with this. There's several stories in this article. Mila did not have this conversation. Mila is like me. You would imagine that she would think that her husband would know the type of person that she is. You would think that her husband would be considerate to all the fact that she didn't want a wedding and she was sacrificing her own wants and needs to give him the desired thing that he wanted. And the fact. So maybe that was the problem. Not to blame it on Mila, but maybe he thought, you know what? This is my day. She doesn't even care about it. So I'm going to do what I want, how I want. That is not an excuse. Because as I was reading this, and it is referenced later in the article, I thought, this is domestic violence.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's right. We're going to get to that.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, we're going to get to that.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. I mean, I think, like, on the most basic and surface level, it also says in the article that Mila planned the garden party. So whether or not it was her idea, she did take on it. Sounds like the responsibilities. We don't know the details, but the word planned is. You know, I'm just looking at the text. But, like, just also on the most basic level, the amount of time and money you spend just getting your hair and makeup done on your wedding day.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

And then if there's a part where it's like, her makeup had to be touched up because it was irreparably, like, harmed, and I'm just like, I'm so sorry, but you're gonna up my face on my most photographed day of my life. Like, truly, truly. Just on some super vain shit, which is exactly who I am. Like, that is rage inducing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But that's what being a bride is. It was the image of her running to the bathroom. So, right. You're like a queen. You're being doted on. You're the most beautiful, glamorous thing that you've ever been, and that's what you spend your money on. And that's really the point of it. All right, so from that image of her, as I'm sure she was so elegantly walking down the aisle.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Now she's running to a regular bathroom, and it says she's over the ceiling sink doing her makeup. It's like from glam to trash immediately.

[Tracy Thomas]

Hello, glamorous trash. I know, I know. Thank you, Chelsea. We love you. We miss you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back.

[Tracy Thomas]

This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios New film Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere, starring Golden Globe winner Jeremy Allen White and Academy Award nominee Jeremy Strong. Scott Cooper, the director of the Academy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Award winning movie Crazy Heart, brings you.

[Tracy Thomas]

The story of the most pivotal chapter in the life of an icon.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Springsteen Deliver Me from Nowhere only in theaters October 24th.

[Tracy Thomas]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more at WhatsApp.com the new Popeyes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And Hot Ones menu is the definition of fire flavor. We've got the sizzling Sriracha dippers. 10 out of 10. Time to take it up a notch with the smoking rojo chicken sandwich. Mm, that's so hot.

[Tracy Thomas]

But it's so good.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Now onto the daring dab ghost wings.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yep, there it is. I love the spice level attempt.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The Popeyes and Hot Ones menu in stores.

[Tracy Thomas]

Our hottest collaboration yet.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Love that chicken from Popeyes.

[Tracy Thomas]

Limited time in participating US Restaurants.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation.

[Tracy Thomas]

I can't remember if it's Mila or some of the other women. They talk about how they're, like, trying to keep a happy face because they don't want everyone else to know how, like, embarrassed or how hurt they are. That part of it, the, like, emotional covering that the women are doing, that part is like, really breaks my heart because I'm just like, you should be mad right now. You have every right to be furious. And your husband has done this on a day where you, like, can't do that, right? Like, you can't. You can't make this a bigger thing. You can't be the asshole, you know?

[Rachel Lindsay]

But why? That's the deeper issue, right?

[Tracy Thomas]

Because everyone would think, oh, he was just playing around. Ha ha ha. And you're taking this out of control. Who cares? You already got married. It's all the things. The belittling of women, which is like, you know, to. To the bigger point of this. And I think, you know, the piece that I just, like, can't get out of my head is like, this is just about humiliation at this point. This is about putting women in their place. And it's really insidious. I mean, I keep thinking in all of these stories and all the videos, it is. It's like, where are the other men? Where are the. Where's the bride's brother? Husband? Brother, dad? Uncle? Laughing well, we don't know. We don't know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I thought about this because I thought if I was Mila and my dad was watching, there's absolutely no way he would have stood still in his seat and allowed that to happen. And even if he saw it and he didn't, in the moment, he would have pulled me to the side and been like, is there a deeper issue here, Year? What's going on? And this is why when you were, like, talking about all the things that it is, you have to somewhat put in race or at least you have to say culture. Because this is a cultural thing.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I've not gone down the rabbit hole of watching all the videos. I watched the videos that were linked in the article. Those were both white people. I went down TikTok and Did you see any black.

[Rachel Lindsay]

No. And of course, I didn't see everything, but, I mean, I spent a good 20 minutes just mindlessly scrolling, and everybody. There was a through line. There was a common denominator.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right. That's not to say that, like, black people or other people of color don't humiliate women or, like, do that. No, there's something about.

[Rachel Lindsay]

They have other ways.

[Tracy Thomas]

They have other ways. Like, this is not absolving anyone of any sort of abuse of women. Like, we know patriarchy is vast and wide, but I do think there is something like cultural to what we're seeing here. And I do think, you know, there's some sort of like, male solidarity happening. Right. Cause if the mother of the bride goes up to the groom and is like, what are you doing? That's really different. That becomes. She's shrill, she's naggy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right? Right.

[Tracy Thomas]

She's making this day about her. Whereas if the father of the bride were to do it, I think you get a different response.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I also just think when you talk about. Cause when you were saying the woman has to do this, it broke your heart how she had to save face. And I was like, why? Why? It also goes to just, like, the role women have in not even just marriage, it's in partnership, period. It could be work, it could be friendships, it could be relationships, since that's what we're talking about. But just how they have to save face, I guess. Or they have to think of everything where men sometimes get a pass and they don't have to. They have to. You know what I mean?

[Tracy Thomas]

Well, men are allowed to, like, not be considerate. Men allowed to, like, oh, I didn't know. Right. Like, later in this article, one of the women, I think it's Anna, she keeps asking her husband, like, why did you do this? You agreed not to do it. Why did you do it? And he keeps being like, I don't know. And there's a part where she's like, I honestly thought he didn't remember doing it. Like, the way that he was able to just, like, not talk about it. And I feel like men are often given the excuse to use I don't know, or like, I didn't think about it as an answer. Whereas when a woman does it, it's like, what do you mean you're supposed to be.

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's.

[Tracy Thomas]

You're supposed to have. Yeah. Your job is to know and see these things.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

I want to talk quickly about the history of the cake smash because I thought this was interesting. So in the article, it says cake rituals are nothing new. Back in ancient Rome, the groom would sprinkle barley crumbs over the bride's head, symbolizing dominance and the hope of future fertility. Over time, this evolved into feeding each other, a gesture intended to show reciprocal care, with some couples making the event more playful by patting icing on each other's faces. So I think, you know, the root of this is male dominance. Right. Like, he's sprinkling barley to dominate a woman and get her pregnant. So I think, like, what we're seeing now is somehow clearly tied to the roots, even if people don't know the roots.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, I actually thought one of the Most interesting parts of that piece that you just read is at some point, reciprocity became the biggest thing. And I never even really looked at it. When I think about weddings and I would see the bride and groom feeding each other, I was just like, oh, this is just for formality. This is why I never wanted a wedding. I'm like, don't enjoy the formality part. I'm like, get me to the reception so I can drink and dance all night with friends and family. Because it's like, you know, it's like weddings a few place. We have everybody you love in one room and it's a happy occasion. So I had never paid attention to that. So I read this. I'm like, oh, that is so true. It's like, I am giving to you, you are giving to me. That is what marriage is. It's a given. It's not to take. And it actually is beautiful. And then to your point, at the top of the show, somehow society changed. And it's not just dominance, it's not just the patriarchy, because that's always existed. It leads to where men are, particularly young men, particularly young white men. You have to say it that way, where they are in society and how they think. It's somehow. Not somehow we know, because I don't want to make this too political, but they have gone back to what it was before. Somebody somewhere got tired of this and said, no, I am man, Hear me roar.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And we're going to start with the cake.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's right. We're going to start with the cake. And so that leads to this other piece of this. Because again, I think this is a particularly now moment. I don't mean now like today, 20, 25, but I mean, in the last few years, we have seen the political pendulum swinging harder, right? We are seeing people capitulate to the whims of the right, what they want. We are seeing people who are supposed to be institutions crumble around all of this. And that is reflected in the cultural zeitgeist, right? Like that is reflected in what we're seeing in the movies. That is reflected what we're seeing in tv. And that is reflected in what we're seeing at weddings. Like this is not separate from trad wives, right? Like this is not separate from mom talk and all of this stuff. It's all tied to this pendulum swing back to the right. That being said, I do want to say, because I know people will like, have a fit with me about this. Obviously, this is not all men who are doing cake smash or all men or all couples who want to do this. I understand if you and your spouse are like, like, let's do a fun cake smash. We want to go viral. All of the, like, wanting the attention and doing it on purpose and, like, thinking it's fun and thinking it's cute. There's a gal in here who talks about, like, it's one of her fondest memories from her wedding. We're actually not talking about you. Like, we're not talking about something that you and your spouse agreed to do, did and loved and thought was fun and wanted to put on the Internet. That is not what's problematic about it. It's not the act of the cake smash. It's the disrespectful, aggressive, violent surprise humiliation case.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Lack of consent.

[Tracy Thomas]

Lack of consent. It's one thing if you guys agree to do it and then somebody falls and gets hurt. It's like, that's not the same as someone pushing you into a corner and throwing a cake at your head.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And it's also, when it's happening with this couple's relationship, it would be one thing. I'm not saying it's better, but if this was a birthday party and you've been married for years or you're not married or whatever, and then they, you know, I don't know. We've seen cake smashes at birthdays too. They throw your cake and your face into the cake. That is different. This is the start of a union. This is how you are starting your union off.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right?

[Rachel Lindsay]

That's where it's like, where do you go from here? As I was reading this article, I just kept thinking to myself, if this happened to me, what would I do? Because of all the things that you're saying, as women, we can think about it so much more intensely and in a deeper way. And also because we are the ones being subjected to it. Where as a man, this is just all fun and games, but it does speak to setting the tone for the marriage. And listen, maybe this was already there. And for some people, I'm sure it. Yeah, for some it is. But for me, it's like, that's what I can't get over. This is a day about being on one accord. And you should be throughout your marriage, right? But this day is the easiest day. One the day, easiest day to be on one. You look your best, you're celebrating your.

[Tracy Thomas]

Street, everyone's paying attention, you have all your friends. Like people talk about, marriage is hard. Marriage is hard. You know what shouldn't be hard, your wedding day. Exactly. At least not between you and your spouse. You might have other reasons. Your mother in law might be a bitch, your uncle might be a drunk. Like, there are other reasons your wedding day could be hard. Your wedding planner doesn't show up, you know, whatever. But the hardest part of your wedding day shouldn't be realizing that your husband wants to ruin your life.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Like, I doesn't care how you feel, doesn't care how you look. Doesn't care about embarrassing you, humiliating you. Doesn't care about, like, setting the tone, how you view him. Because it's all about the fun.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right? And also, like in the case of Anna, who was like, we're not doing this, not only did she say that, but then he went and did it. Like he actively went against your wishes on this day. That's just like so rude. So this leads me to the male intimacy vulnerability section. And I think this part is very important, which is that basically the wedding day is all about the bride.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

Regardless of gender. Everybody knows she's in the white dress. You know, they're coming down the aisle, all eyes on her. He walks in first, everybody else comes in, then you stand, here comes the bride. There's a whole song like, this is bride day. The men can't handle it. It starts there. It starts with, why is she getting all the attention? This is my day too. And you know what? There might be some sexism there. There might be a problem. However, okay? Men can't handle it. They don't run off and go cry to their bestie. They take their hand and uppercut, fondant up your fucking nose. There's a way to handle not being the center of attention. I would know, because I love being the center of attention. And usually it's very hard for me when I go to someone else's wedding. I have to be like, how's my Dr. No, no. I love a wedding. But I'm just saying, as a, as a Leo, as a person who you are, a Leo loves attention. I understand not getting attention and being uncomfortable. I have never once thought to physically humiliate the person getting all the attention.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You know what? I never thought of it this way. The way you just described it. I've never thought about how. Of course I know it's all about the woman. I've been down the aisle. Yes, so have you. But I never thought that a man could be looking at it like, man, it's all about her. What about me? It takes two to make a marriage. And I Guess I never thought about that, too, because there are men, and I know these aren't the ones we're talking about, who do find little ways to have their moment in a wedding. I just was at a wedding. It was the song that he walked into down the aisle. It was the song that they both came out to. And the dance. It's him dancing with his mother. You know, there are. Or if he's, like, in a fraternity or whatever, there's moments that you can make it about you. But the fact that a man can be seething while she's walking down the aisle and thinking, when do I get my moment? Or, like, can we just hurry this up to get to the cake? And still thinking that that display, that whole act makes it about you is. I don't. It's beyond selfish. I, like, just don't know what to call it. But I never thought of it that way, right?

[Tracy Thomas]

And I'm, like, saying that men are, like, standing there being like, I can't wait to get my revenge on this woman. But I do feel like, you know, there's this whole lead up to a wedding, too, right? It's like, oh, we have to do this. We have to do that. Again, not all men, but I think some men are sick of it. They're sick of your shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

The bridezilla.

[Tracy Thomas]

Or even just even a totally chill, whatever bride. There's still a bunch of things. We got to get the marriage license. We got to go to the wedding shower. We got to do this. We have the rehearsal dinner. Did you get your shoes? I need you to call this person your groomsman. Like, it's just a lot. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of tasks. And I can understand a man or anyone. I mean, quite frankly, I wish that I didn't have to plan my own wedding, because I would love to be annoyed about all the things, right? Like, I would love to be like, fine, I'll call them. You know? But I was like, no, I have to do all of this. So I do understand being annoyed by it, and I do understand that, like, it. I think that the way that we do weddings right now is, like, too lopsided. I think it should be more equal. I think both people should have lots of moments in the day, and it should be about both people together. And the way that weddings are. It doesn't do that. It doesn't make me feel like you should do the fondant sinus rub, though.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I. I think that's what. I mean. There are a Lot of things that are troubling about this whole thing, but I think that's one of the scariest things, is that you maybe have this pent up aggression because your significant other was a bridezilla or because you didn't get your way with something that you wanted in the wedding or just something else annoyed you from that time. You remember in the movie in Bride.

[Tracy Thomas]

Wars, that's the one with Kate Hudson and the brunette or something.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes. Candice Bergen is the wedding planner. And so, like, the whole thing of it is they're best friends. They both want their wedding on this particular day. And so, like, they're fighting over the day.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Rachel Lindsay]

But she does this whole monologue where she's like, there's two types of couples. And you see one couple, they become stronger through all of it, and, like, they figure out how to work through conflict and they're better for it. And the other couple, it reveals all the problems that they've had the entire time. And it all comes together. Chris Pratt and Anne Hathaway are the troubled couple. And Chris Pratt would have absolutely the character. I don't want y' all to come at me. The character would have absolutely done that. There's one point in the movie scene of the movie where he calls her a bitch. He's like, I don't know you. I don't know you to be acting like this. It's bringing something else out of you. And I guess my point to that is one of the scariest things about all this is that man, that person who's a Chris Pratt character, rather than saying, hey, we have issues we need to work on. We need to be in couples therapy, whatever, decides to wait till this moment to mask what it actually is that they feel in the disguise of, I'm just having fun, but you're really beating your wife. I was about to curse. I don't know if you could. On this podcast, you're really beating your wife up, in a sense, and you're masking it as fun and games. And that is terrifying. I saw that when I was going down the rabbit hole on. On TikTok.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. And I feel like it's also tied to the fact that the man has to be, in a lot of ways, publicly vulnerable. Like during the vows. Right. You have to say, I want you to take me. I love you. I'm submitting myself to this marriage. And like, a lot of men aren't comfortable with that kind of vulnerability and intimacy, especially in front of their friends and their family. It might be One thing, you know, there's so many stories of men who are like, one way with their girl and then a totally different way, Right? So it's like at your wedding, you have to show that side of yourself publicly. And I think there's also a piece of that where it's like. In the article, there's a clinical psychologist, his name's Michael Brustein, and this is what he says about this behavior might reflect an unconscious fear that marriage leads to a loss of self. It's a way of saying, I'm not controlled. I just did this whole act of submission, getting on my knees. Please marry me. Please love me. There's pleasure in saying, I'm still a man and I'm still dominant. Right? So it's like after you stand in front of, you know, what do you say in front of God and everybody, and you say all these nice things, and you pledge to love and take care of through sickness and in health, and, you know, you make me a better person. You're so beautiful. You've helped me find this and that. It's like. But also, I'm still a man, and I could dominate you with this cake. And I feel like that's not nothing, you know, Liam is one of the husbands, and he says the one thing he wanted to pick at the wedding, the one thing he was like, I've been dreaming of this wedding my whole life. All I want to do is smash cake in your face. He says, quote, she got to choose basically the whole wedding. I wanted very little, and this is one of the things I wanted. He says, weddings aren't just for the bride. Groom should get to have a preference here and there. I was pretty adamant, like, no, we are doing the cake thing.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And what you are adamant about is.

[Tracy Thomas]

Humiliating your public humiliation for your wife.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think modern, especially, like the last two weddings that I've been to, the ones this year, it felt equal. It felt like, yeah, I'm sure the bride does most of the planning, but it felt like the husband had some say in it. It just felt like it was like.

[Tracy Thomas]

Like their dad.

[Rachel Lindsay]

More of a union.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. But I think what you just read about what the clinical psychologist said is that this leads to the male loneliness epidemic. Right. Because one of the issues is that you've been told that as a man, you are supposed to be this way and act this way, and people are supposed to adhere to you a certain way. But that's conflicting with men being more in tune with their emotions and going to therapy and learning that it's okay to be vulnerable and that being encouraged. And there's this back and forth of, well, which one am I supposed to be? And you know, not everybody recognizes both of it. And like, they're struggling with their emotions. It also is what leads to suicide. Being up with young males too, because they just don't know how to process all of it. And I think that if. If you're going into a marriage and that's how you're kind of like the dominance, it has to be, you shouldn't be married. And I think that that's why it leads all up to the cake Smash. If that is you asserting your dominance or you having your moment, then you need to rewind and you probably shouldn't.

[Tracy Thomas]

Be doing that get married, because it.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Is about you being able to process. But, like, it's okay to be vulnerable. It's a beautiful thing. And if you can't be that with your wife or understand what that moment would do to her or things like that, it's. It all just is, like, you shouldn't be here in the first place. Go play that game with your boys somewhere else.

[Tracy Thomas]

There's other ways that that could manifest that aren't physically harming and humiliating your wife. It could manifest as like, I just did this. I'm really embarrassed. You know, I'm going to go smoke cigars with my dudes for an hour and like not be at the wedding. Like, that's another way it could manifest that is not hurting or harming or embarrassing your wife. And I think that's the piece of it for me is like, if you're having a hard time with emotions, some men, they can't handle it. They don't know. Like some people, it's a lot, I understand that. But it's like the taking it out on the other person that is what's troubling, you know, Like, I think on my wedding day, my husband left the wedding for an hour and was like drinking with his friends. I would be pretty pissed. But that would be different than if my husband threw a cake at my head. I mean, in Anna's story, she says he was throwing it at me. Like, throwing cake at your wife. Like, it's something deeper. That's so dark.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's something deeper. I was watching videos where they were wrestling, like full on shoes off the ground, tussling. And like people are just standing by watching it, but they're laughing. I also saw a video where a man did it to a woman and she stumbled over and he picked her up. And it's like, not that I still agree with the cake smash, but it's like he realized his dominance over her and what? Yeah. And picked her up. But I'm talking, like, blows.

[Tracy Thomas]

Whoa. Okay. You have to send us the link to that one if you can find it so we can put it in the show notes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll find it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. So this leads us to the other piece of it. And I don't want to over or understate this because I don't want anyone to feel like I'm making this a bigger thing than it is or smaller than it is. I think, you know, when it comes to domestic violence, it is both case by case and extremely broad. And so I want to hold space for everyone listening that what we're about to say is not condemning or, like, okaying anything. But I don't think that doing a cake smash on its own is necessarily part of the, like, cake to domestic violence pipeline. Right. Like, I think there are probably couples where the man got carried away, does it one time, and it's not indicative of anything else in the relationship. This side of him never shows up again. It's a heightened emotion situation.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right.

[Tracy Thomas]

I also think that it is a red flag in some cases. You know, I think one of the women says, like, oh, yeah, it. You know, after that, I realized, like, he was always sort of jealous and, like, was trying to control me, but that this is sort of the aha moment that you're talking about. So I don't think that the cake smash, I don't think you can say any man who does a cake smash that is aggressive is a domestic abuser or not. However, what I will say is that if a man behaved in this way without a cake on a different day, in front of people, there would be real questions asked. Right. If your husband at the dinner table threw a glass of water in your face, you would be like, yo, what the fuck? Like, what's that guy's feeling?

[Rachel Lindsay]

It's assault.

[Tracy Thomas]

It's assault.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And so I am leaning more towards. And I said this at the beginning, that when I was reading the article, I said, oh, this feels like domestic violence. And the reason I said that is because there are stories where there's clearly a lack of consent. It's beyond the aggressive nature. It's, I told you not to do this. I did it anyway. It's the grabbing of the neck. It's the holding down of the arms and pinning down of the legs.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I think that was the story, though, where she Said it was consent, but, yeah, like, that. She knew that that was the happiest day of her life. But still, it's when I hear stories like that and then you are, you know, holding me down against my will with cake, that, to me, leads me to say that kind of thing.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes, I agree. I agree. My inclination, when I was reading it and I wrote about this article in my substack right after I read it, because I, again, could not stop thinking about it, I said to me, it is like, super red flags for domestic violence. I just wanted to say that previous piece, I don't think necessarily that every instance of this is like, this man is a monster. I still think it's probably a form of domestic violence, period, no matter what, but it might be the only time it shows up in a relationship. My understanding of domestic violence, though, is that that is very rarely the case, that a man would do one incident of domestic violence and never show signs of it again.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah, I mean, you're right to give the disclaimer. Absolutely. Because I don't want people to take this out of, you know, that we're saying, like you said, every single situation is the same. But even if it doesn't, there is no other instance of, you know, violence or doing. Holding somebody down against their will or something like that. It does speak to, like, the dynamic of your relationship. And that's where you see some stories in the article, where it made them pause. I mean, one woman says in the article, it was the beginning of the end for her.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

And I wouldn't be able to look past it either. It speaks to the nature of your relationship. Because as we said earlier, this is the easiest day. This is the easiest day.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right. I think it's Elena who had the restaurant wedding. She was 19, and she says a good partner doesn't take a special moment and make you look stupid or make it about them. Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately that's the thing. But I think also, like, you know, in a lot of these stories, Mila talks about how he cracked her nose. She thought she was bleeding. One of the craziest stories is from a photographer named Fiona who said the bride had to run to the bathroom because her face was covered in blood. The family was really upset, and the entire crowd of people knew something was wrong. And then the photographer goes on to say she thought that the bride's nose was broken because the parents had come out and sent the photographer home. So, like, some of this is so brutal that there's no other word for it. Whether or not it's in or out of character, potentially breaking your bride's nose, regardless of what the day is. Like, yeah, it could be any Tuesday, your wedding day, your birthday, whatever. But taking that kind of physical violence against your partner, period. And the other way around, if there are videos of women, you know, doing this to their spouses in a violent way, like, that also is domestic violence. Like, if you are doing this to someone, that's not an okay thing. And I just feel like the normalization of this of, like, embarrassing the bride in this way that everyone stands around and watches and laughs, and maybe some people are uncomfortable, but there's no stories in here where someone steps up and pulls the groom off or is like, hey, what the fuck are you doing, dude? You're out of control. Right? Like, there is a accepted normalization of a public form of assault, you know? And, like, that's. That's crazy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. I think some people will be listening to this and saying, you guys are exaggerating. You're just doing the most. But I would encourage people to go down the rabbit hole, whether it's on whatever social media platform you frequent and look at some of these videos. We live in a day and age where we're like, oh, this is a green flag. Oh, this is a red flag. Oh, this is a beige flag. This is a glaring red flag. Not just for the action of it, which is. Is horrible in itself. It's for what it represents. I promise you we're not exaggerating.

[Tracy Thomas]

Honestly, Rachel, I wrote that in my substack piece. Like, one of the last things was. I think we overuse the term red flag. But if this is not a red flag, I honestly don't know what is. One of the videos in the article, it's the one where it describes the woman being, like, pushed into the corner. That was the one that I was like, that shit is so crazy. Like, he, like, intimidatingly backs her up into the corner, and she's like, no, no, no, don't do it. And he just, like, like, jams the shit. She falls down. He's like, over her. It's wild. I honestly can't imagine being at a wedding like that and, like, at a wedding and seeing something like that. Like, I don't know.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I thought about that. What would you do? Like, well, I'd probably be like, this ain't any of my business, but. But it's like, if it was you and it was happening to you, I wouldn't ruin your day. I mean, I would run with you. To the bathroom and I would help you, but later on I would be like, are you okay? Are you okay with that? I also just think that that would be so hard. I also was looking for videos to see where a woman initiated. Yeah, the cakes. Just to see. Just to like kind of contextualize the conversation. Like, oh, maybe there are women who are equally doing this.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Couldn't find it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Couldn't find. I know in one of the videos, it's like the woman like kind of like smears the cake on his face and then he like picks up the cake and throws it at her also. Like, how dare you throw the cake? What about me? I want to eat it. Like, how dare you? I came, I bought a present. Okay? I want my cake.

[Rachel Lindsay]

I need people, and we talked about this kind of at the beginning is I need people to live in real life. I need people to live in reality and stop doing things for people that you don't know or for a viral moment. Because just as it goes viral very quickly, it disappears quickly. And then you have to live with the reality of the situation. The reality is your partner and this marriage. Not for likes and clicks for a couple of seconds. There are a number of viral videos with cake smashes. Yours is not going to be the one that people remember forever. Like, live in real life, Please, I beg of you.

[Tracy Thomas]

Talking about how this ties to everything we talk about right now that's not disconnected from the conversation we're having about being online and about celebrity and all of these things. Right. I know so many women who have full careers, have full lives, who are like trying to be influencers to their 150 followers or whatever. And they're like, here's where I got my back. And I'm not even saying that as like a dig about the number of followers. But what I'm saying is, like, not everything has to be content. Not every piece of your life has to be you selling a pair of jeans or a T shirt or a visor or your nail polish. Like, I understand, obviously, intimately, as you do, what it means to be a creator who makes money from social media. Frankly, I hate it. Frankly, I don't like to post anything about my life on the Internet and I rarely do same. That being said, the lie that like a trad wife is just churning butter. I'm like, babe, that famous trad wife with 12 million followers, that's her job. Her job is making the content. What you think is her life is actually her work and that people think posting a video like this I'm going to go viral. It's going to be so fun. It's like they don't even understand, understand the whole ecosystem of social media and like how nefarious some of this stuff is. It's like, oh, you're willing to do this to a person in your real life for clicks from strangers? We have a serious social media problem if that's what's going on here. And that is what's going on here.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah. When I was married and I came off the show, I wanted to live in real life and be private. It's actually a point of contention in our marriage because I did not want to be a couple that felt like they had to. I remember there was a moment right off the show that we felt like we had to perform for people or oh, people are watching us because there was like an article that came out that was super misleading about our relationship or like us having an argument or something like that. And then I remember thinking, I refuse to do content or pretend or do skits or whatever and no shade to the people who do. I get it. It's a business, make youe Money. I just did not want to subject my actual love life, my actual partnership for people that I didn't know. I find another way to make money that wasn't for me. He wanted to do that. So if he had known about the cake smash, he might have done it.

[Tracy Thomas]

He might have want to do it. Yeah. I think one of the last things I want to talk about before we get out of here, which is just what I was saying at the beginning about how I think this is like tied to a lot of other issues. And I do want to just make the point about women's reproductive health because I actually genuinely think these things are like extremely tied together. I think the fact that like, we are having conversations about what women are and aren't allowed to do with their bodies and we're taking away women's rights and all of that. It is tied to this swing to the right. It is tied to the trad wife, you know, economy, whatever the like ideals that that is what women should be doing. It is tied to the push to conservatism. It is tied to the ways that people talk about women publicly, politicians publicly. And it is tied to the ways that we, we think that women's lives, bodies and consent are up for discussion and debate.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Right.

[Tracy Thomas]

There is no world in which we are discussing or debating men's existence. Their ability to consent, their ability to be dominant, their ability to do what they want to be where they are. And this, though it is so small and feels silly and dumb, is tied to that. In a world where women had full power and autonomy for their bodies, we would not have the same issue. Right. Like, because part of this is that women are treated as lesser than. And so therefore you're allowed to do that. That's why we don't see videos of women doing this to men and men getting mad. Obviously, there's a physical disparity sometimes, but sometimes there's not. Sometimes, you know, couples are the same size, like, and it still would be totally fine for a woman to smash cake. Right. Like, it's like, this is part of the power dynamic. And I think, like, that is why I keep saying that this is of this moment. Yeah, yeah. Of this moment where we're back to debating women's autonomy in a way that we just simply were not 10 years ago, 15 years ago. And I think, like, men and people in general, whether or not they are thinking about it consciously, are feeling this push to the right. And I don't mean that like Republicans. I mean that, like, towards the concert, like, towards conservatism, that there is this.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Sure, you have a role.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes. Like that. We are talking more and more about gender roles that we are. And I. And I also think this is tied in some ways, though I'm not sure I can articulate this fully well. But in my mind, there is a connection to this and how people think about, talk about, and, you know, persecute trans people. Like, I think that some of this, especially the performances of weddings, are tied to heteronormative cisgender roles, and it doesn't leave space for people who are outside of that. And I think it's not exactly tied to it. But, like, I think a smarter person could probably make that connection slightly better than me, but it is there in, like, you know, as ideas are floating in my brain.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Absolutely.

[Tracy Thomas]

This is just, like, such a bigger thing. Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So well said. And the only thing I will say to that is when I was reading.

[Tracy Thomas]

The book Erased, is that Ana Malaika Tubbs book.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It is about the American patriarchy. And when I asked her a question about it, I asked about women's role in regards to patriarchy, and she was like, yes. And the truth is patriarchy or the dynamic couldn't exist without women being complacent or bragging about it with, like, the trad wife trend and all of that. And I think what's so important, too, about this article is that women are speaking up and speaking out about their displeasure. And maybe in the moment, they couldn't find their voice, but they're speaking towards it now. I think that as women, we have to recognize or find our power within it, because we can't revert back to, well, I love when a man does this. I love. And that's fine. You can love those things, but also understand the damage that it does in regards to women's rights, women's wants, women's needs, that kind of thing. And I think that it's. This is powerful. And I think women more. And again, it's almost like talking about Housewives, where I'm like, oh, I know Housewives is this silly little show, but it deals with sociology and psychology and all of that, when you really break it down. And I think that's what this article is. It is bigger than just talking about a cake toss. The silly thing. It's what it represents. It's what men and women represent in American society and how we're kind of backtracking to the days of. Yes, to the good old days. The good old days, some people might say. But it's so important that women aren't complacent or just take. Cause I think it's innately within us. And maybe that's a society thing. Maybe that's a nature versus nurture thing. It's probably a nurture thing more than nature within us. To just be like, oh, it's okay. Oh, it's fine. Make an excuse, say sex.

[Tracy Thomas]

We've been taught that. Yeah. And to your point about, like, women being complacent in the patriarchy, I think going back to the 2024 election, you know, one of the things that people were talking about when it came to the abortion rights issue was like. Like, white suburban moms are gonna vote for their daughters. They're gonna vote to protect their daughters. You know, think of your daughters. That was like the line coming out of the Harris campaign. This is an issue that the Democrats like. It's such a winning issue for them. Think of your daughters. Think of the future. And one of. I think it was Tracy McMillan Cottam, who is my favorite smart person in the world. But it might not be. So I'm attributing it to her because it has her energy, but it might not be. But someone I was listening to said after the results came in and Trump won, it was like, oh, white suburban moms were thinking of their kids, but they were thinking of their sons. They were thinking of not wanting a world where men were Gonna be punished where white boys were gonna be punished. And I feel like this article is also getting at that. We are letting these men off without any consequence, right? Like, you get to do this public act of violence towards a woman in front of everyone you love and know, and you get off with maybe your wife being mad at you later. But in the moment, you still get to have your fun night. You get to have your cheers, you get to dance with your friends. You get to do all of these things. And maybe later your wife divorces you, or you're written about in the cut, but your name has changed. Like, it's just. Like, it's so crazy. But that is also this moment, right? That men who are doing bad things are getting off without any consequences or maybe a slap on the wrist, right? And so with that, I want to take us to the end of this article, which is Anna, the woman who had told her husband not to do it. He did it anyway. She kept asking him why and why and why? And here's the last sentences of the article. Eventually, just before they split up, Anna's husband mustered an answer to the question of why did you do it? I don't know, he said. I thought it would be funny. That's where the article ends. It's just. It's a crazy ending. I just.

[Rachel Lindsay]

So you know what? I just keep thinking, if the women were the ones doing it, what would the word be for a man? If a woman took a man's face and smashed it in a cake and dominated him, we'll say, or did the chin to the forehead move.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Rachel Lindsay]

What would that be for a man?

[Tracy Thomas]

What do you mean? Like, what would they call her?

[Rachel Lindsay]

What would the emotion most likely be?

[Tracy Thomas]

Humiliation.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Emasculating.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, emasculating. Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

You see how it is on the opposite, like, it's just like, if she did, it's emasculating. And he would be mortified and he would be embarrassed. And if you put it to a man like that, I think that they would be able to understand it. It would almost take away your manhood. Because it's not. It doesn't fit into the gender role of it. All right?

[Tracy Thomas]

Because a woman should be humiliated.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

[Tracy Thomas]

Totally. Okay, everyone at home, I'm very curious to know what you think of the article. Are you into it? Are you out of it? Did you do it at your wedding? No judgment. It's okay. Did you do it Cute? Did it get out of hand? Do you hate your husband? Still together? Yeah. Are you still together? You know Tell us everything. We're chatting over on the Patreon in the comments, so join us over there at Glamorous Trash. The last thing we do here is called the Click Lit Quiz, where we're going to answer these questions. So was this article well written?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Very much so.

[Tracy Thomas]

So good.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It was.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, it was amazing. Two, did reading this article make you want to scream about it to someone? Okay, my answer is obvious. We've talked about this before. I've talked about this with every person I know. Like, I will be anywhere and be like, did you know cake smashes are on the rise? And the person at the DMV is like, ma', am, can I just have your license? And I'm like, isn't it horrible? They're like, ma', am, just. It's the library. I love it, I love it, I love it. Okay, the last one is, did reading this article deepen your thinking on this subject for me?

[Rachel Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Well, yes. I wasn't thinking of it, as I told you. Yeah. When you first brought it up, we talked about it and I was like, okay, this is so horrendous. I'm never gonna think about it again. But reading the article, it just took it to another level. And that's. That's attributed to question one. It was written so well.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes.

[Rachel Lindsay]

It took me there. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

I wrote about this six weeks ago. And I still am, like, I still keep. It keeps unfurling. I notice things and I still, like, oh, that reminds me of that article. This is so that, like, not to put too fine a point on it, but, like, even some of the, like, Charlie Kirk stuff reminds me of this article. Like, his wife's performance at the funeral in the white. In the bride's outfit. Like, I just. This article is my Roman Empire. Everything is like, I'm going to be talking about this in 50 years. Being like, grandma, you have dementia. And I'm going to be like, but the cakes, the cakes. The cake smash of 2025. Okay, everybody, we did it. This one passes the Click lit quiz. Rach, thank you so much for being here. Do you have anything you want to plug or tell us about? Where to find you?

[Rachel Lindsay]

No, just guys, check me out. Higher learning. New episodes drop every Tuesday and Friday. Morally corrupt. If you're a Bravo fan and you step into that world, new episodes drop every Tuesday and Friday as well.

[Tracy Thomas]

Amazing. I'm actually going to plug something because this week I got to interview Kamala Harris on my podcast with Sachs, and I just feel like. Like, that might be the last thing I ever flex with for the rest of my life because I don't know if anything's ever going to top it. So go listen to the stacks this week. The episode dropped on Tuesday. She answered some questions, you know, I got to ask her about trans people in Gaza, which I wasn't sure how that would go, but she, she answered, I'll let you decide what you think of the answers. But I asked it, she answered, it's there, it's live. Please check it out. I promise not to tell you other things to do. And I never normally plug my shit, but like, like, I'm gonna plug my shit.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Cause it was Shyamala. You absolutely should.

[Tracy Thomas]

This is a talk your shit moment. I'm gonna do that. Okay. All right, Cookies, we'll see you next time. Rach. Thank you.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Oh, no, thank you. Bye, guys. A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also wanna give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and Everyplate. We will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier. You can join. Leave a comment, chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there. ABC Wednesday. Shifting Gears is back. He has arisen.

[Tracy Thomas]

Tim Allen and Kat Dennings return in television's number one new comedy. What what? With a star studded premiere including Jenna.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Elfman, Nancy Travis and.

[Tracy Thomas]

Hey buddy.

[Rachel Lindsay]

A big home improvement reunion welcome. Oh boy, that guy's a tool.

[Tracy Thomas]

Shifting Gears season premiere Wednesday, 8, 7.

[Rachel Lindsay]

Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's the sound of the fully electric Audi Q6E Tron and the quiet confidence of ultra smooth handling. The elevated cross interior reminds you this is more than an ev. This is electric performance redefined.