Viral Article Hall of Fame: Bad Vegan, Sarma Melngailis, and The Boyfriend Scam

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast - Episode Summary

Episode Title: Viral Article Hall of Fame: Bad Vegan, Sarma Melngailis, and The Boyfriend Scam
Release Date: August 1, 2025
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guests: Lindy West and Megan Hatcher Mays

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Introduction to the Episode

In this compelling episode of Glamorous Trash, host Chelsea Devantez delves into the notorious Vanity Fair article titled "How Sarma Melangelis, Queen of Vegan Cuisine, Became a Runaway Fugitive" by Alan Salkin. This deep dive not only revisits the original scandal surrounding Sarma Melangailis and her husband Anthony Strangis but also explores subsequent developments, including documentaries and Sarma's recently published memoir.

Trigger Warnings: The discussion includes topics of domestic abuse, sexual assault, abortion, and body image.

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Overview of the Original Vanity Fair Article

Chelsea begins by summarizing the Vanity Fair article, which chronicles the downfall of Sarma Melangailis, a celebrated vegan restaurateur in New York City. Sarma and her husband Anthony Strangis were arrested for defrauding her restaurant, Pure Food and Wine, of nearly $2 million by not paying employees and scamming investors. Their escape from the law ended when Anthony ordered a Domino's pizza using his real name, leading to their capture.

Notable Quote:
Chelsea Devantes reads:
"By the time police arrested Sarma Melangailis and Anthony Strangis on May 10th of this year on fugitive warrants at the Tennessee Hotel where they'd been holed up for 40 days and 40 nights, this is how insane their marriage had become." [04:50]

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Critique of the Vanity Fair Article

Guests Lindy West and Megan Hatcher Mays critique the Vanity Fair article for its disproportionate focus on Anthony's weight and Sarma's dog rather than the central issue of fraud and coercive control.

Notable Quotes:
Lindy West comments:
"Being a great big fat person is the least of strangest crimes, I would say." [08:08]

Megan Hatcher Mays adds:
"Usually with an article like this, you get more into, like, if you're going to kick things off by saying, oh, she's been called the vegan Bernie Madoff, I expect at least a deep dive into some of her victims." [08:40]

Chelsea agrees, highlighting how the article trivializes the fraud by emphasizing superficial aspects:
"It reeked of... making fun of vegetarians and veganism as if, like, that's insane." [10:00]

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Connection to Alec and Hilaria Baldwin

The discussion shifts to the involvement of Alec Baldwin and his wife Hilaria Baldwin in Sarma's story. Chelsea recounts how Sarma met Alec Baldwin at her restaurant, leading to complex interactions and heightened media interest.

Notable Quotes:
Megan Hatcher Mays remarks:
"The documentary is maybe a little bit more respectful than the article." [06:41]

Lindy West muses on the absurdity of the situation:
"He's like, everyone made fun of the vegan for eating the cheesy pizza, but the pizza was only for the fat husband who's 300 pounds." [07:10]

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Updates Since the Original Article

Chelsea updates listeners on subsequent developments, including the release of the Netflix documentary Bad Vegan and Sarma's self-published memoir, The Girl with the Duck Tattoo. These works shed more light on Sarma's experiences and the manipulative relationship with Anthony Strangis.

Notable Quotes:
Chelsea Devantez reads from Sarma's memoir:
"Imagine suddenly realizing my dog isn't gonna live forever. I'm not eternally safe. All my dreams and visions that he promised me he'd make happen are not happening." [28:41]

---

Analysis of Relationship Dynamics and Coercive Control

Guests discuss the abusive dynamics between Sarma and Anthony, emphasizing coercive control and manipulation. They critique how media narratives often blame victims by highlighting irrelevant personal traits rather than addressing the abusive behavior of perpetrators.

Notable Quotes:
Lindy West states:
"Regular fat bad male behavior." [45:35]

Megan Hatcher Mays reflects:
"I think she just got taken in by somebody who promised her all this stuff and she really believed it." [51:06]

---

Excerpt from Sarma's Memoir

Chelsea shares an excerpt from Sarma's memoir, providing firsthand insight into her emotional turmoil and the complexities of her relationships with Alec Baldwin and Anthony Strangis.

Excerpt Highlights:

• Sarma's initial attraction to Alec Baldwin during a Moby Dick reading.
• Her realization that she couldn't let someone "wipe out my problems" for her.
• The intertwining relationships that led to further entanglement and deception.

---

Concluding Reflections

The episode concludes with Chelsea and her guests reflecting on the broader implications of Sarma's story, including societal tendencies to vilify "perfect" or "moral" figures while neglecting the nuances of abusive relationships and coercive control.

Notable Quotes:
Megan Hatcher Mays concludes:
"It's not that crazy. And also I just think that it's because we gleefully want people whom we think are like, you know, live blessings, best life to take a hard fall..." [44:07]

Lindy West adds:
"Why does the FBI know his weight? Is Domino's selling our data to law enforcement?" [13:32]

---

Key Takeaways

• Media Bias: The Vanity Fair article was critiqued for focusing on superficial aspects (e.g., Anthony's weight, Sarma's dog) rather than the serious issues of fraud and abuse.

• Coercive Control: Sarma's relationship with Anthony exemplifies how coercive control can manipulate and devastate individuals, often overlooked in sensational media narratives.

• Celebrity Involvement: The involvement of Alec and Hilaria Baldwin added layers of complexity and media attention to the scandal.

• Updates and Renewed Interest: Subsequent documentaries and Sarma's memoir have provided deeper insights, although Sarma continues to navigate her path amid ongoing public scrutiny and financial struggles.

• Societal Fascination: There is a tendency to revel in the downfall of seemingly "perfect" individuals, overshadowing the underlying issues of manipulation and abuse.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Glamorous Trash provides a critical examination of the interplay between media narratives, celebrity involvement, and the personal tragedies of Sarma Melangailis. Through thoughtful discussion with guests Lindy West and Megan Hatcher Mays, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding viral scandals and the importance of looking beyond surface-level judgments.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Chelsea Devantez: "Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there." [00:01] (Skipped as part of advertisement)

• Lindy West: "Being a great big fat person is the least of strangest crimes, I would say." [08:08]

• Megan Hatcher Mays: "I think the documentary is maybe a little bit more respectful than the article." [06:41]

• Chelsea Devantez (reading Sarma's memoir): "Imagine suddenly realizing my dog isn't gonna live forever..." [28:41]

• Megan Hatcher Mays: "It's not that crazy..." [44:07]

---

Further Listening:

For those interested in deeper discussions on similar topics, Chelsea recommends checking out the guests' own podcasts and newsletters:

• Lindy West: Text Me Back Podcast | patreon.com/textmebackpod
• Megan Hatcher Mays: Text Me Back Podcast | patreon.com/textmebackpod

Listeners are encouraged to explore these platforms for more insightful conversations on memoirs, pop culture, and the intricate stories behind public figures.

Transcript

[Chelsea Devantes]

On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host, Chelsea Devantes. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And today we are doing a viral article hall of Fame episode where we reach back into the archives and pick out some of the most notable viral articles of all all time. And today we are book clubbing the Vanity Fair article titled How Sarma Melangelis, Queen of Vegan Cuisine, Became a Runaway Fugitive by Alan Salkin. So to really lay out what we are going to discuss today, this is the original article about Sarma Mingalis, who ran a raw vegan restaurant in New York City called Pure Food and Wine. So Sarma then went on the run from the law with her husband, Anthony Stranges, after it was discovered that they had stopped paying her employees and Anthony had coerced Sarma into giving him millions of dollars and putting her wildly in debt. Now, years after the article we're about to discuss came out, Sarma had gone to jail and the documentary called Bad Vegan came out, which I'm sure you've heard of, most of you have seen. It's, it's like a very big hit documentary in the past decade. Now in that documentary and in this article, there are two people tied up in this story and it's unbelievable. It is Alec Baldwin and Hilaria Baldwin. They play giant roles in the story. Now today, as we revisit the original article, we will also be getting into new information like a rumored study, second documentary, Sarma's self published memoir that just came out this summer, plus a new follow up article. Now I also want to give you trigger warnings for talk of domestic abuse, sexual assault, abortion and body image. So please take care when listening. There's so much to unpack. Now let's dive in. My guests today are the co hosts of the podcast Text Me Back, which I love. I'm a fan, big listener with Lindy west and Megan Hatcher Mays, which you can listen to on your favorite podcast app. You know Lindy as the author of the New York Times best selling memoir Shrill Notes from a Loud Woman, which became a TV show, or if you're me from all her Jezebel articles which were amazing. And she also has a book coming out in March 2026 called Adult Braces that's available for pre order link is in the show notes. Megan Hatcher Mays is a lawyer and expert on the courts and democracy who has appeared on MSNBC and Peacock. Her work has appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post and the Huffington Post. Hi you both. Hello.

[Lindy West]

Hello.

[Chelsea Devantes]

What gorgeous bios.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I know. I was going to say my bio is so funny for this because I'm.

[Lindy West]

Like, let's drag this vegan.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And listen, the courts and democracy are behind you, Megan.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

The Supreme Court gets it. They're about to weigh in. John Roberts is very distressed about this vegan fraud.

[Chelsea Devantes]

You know, I gotta tell you, we recently did Hilaria Baldwin's memoir on this podcast, and while I knew the pure food and wine connection between Hilaria, Alec Baldwin and Sarma with Bad Vegan, I really did not realize how intense the connection was until I read this article again. So let me just read one paragraph of the overview so everyone knows what we're talking about and then we will dive in. Okay? By the time police arrested Sarma Melangialis and Anthony Strangis on May 10th of this year on fugitive from just Warrants at the Tennessee Hotel where they'd been holed up for 40 days and 40 nights. This is how insane their marriage had become. Sarma, 43, the radiantly blonde poster woman for vegan living, a Manhattan restaurateur and a Wharton graduate, says she had come to believe, really, really believe, that her pit bull, Leon, was on the cusp of being made immortal. This would be accomplished by her husband, Stranges, 35, a gambler with a criminal past she'd met on Twitter five years earlier. The two were accused by the Brooklyn District Attorney's office of draining Sarma's 12 year old raw vegan restaurant, Pure Food and wine, of nearly $2 million, stiffing employees duping investors, going on the lam, and spending lavishly on hotels, watches, and casinos. After they left town, Sarma went from feminist business icon to clickbait, the vegan vixen and the vegan Bernie Madoff. And then later in the same article, he writes sentences like this. It was widely reported that just before the arrest, the couple had ordered a Domino's pizza. Actually, the non raw, non vegan cheesy pie, parentheses plus a side of chicken wings, was only for the 300 plus pound Anthony Stranges. And then later he writes, unlike Sarma Mengialis, Anthony Strangis was not a vegan. He apparently loved junk food. Subway tuna salad sandwiches with extra mayo, for instance. A source close to Sarma said he had told her that dealing with his obesity was, quote, a test. Okay, so there's a lot more details we're gonna get into, but that kind of summarizes the gist of the article. So tell me, when did you first encounter this article and what was it like reading it almost 10 years later?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

You know, I don't think I read the article until after I watched the Netflix documentary, but the article came out, I think, like, five or six years before the documentary did. Yeah. So I would say the documentary is maybe a little bit more respectful than the article. But going back and rereading the article now, it's like, wow, you really thought that guy was fat and needed to.

[Lindy West]

Tell us all about it.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Thank you so much, Vanity Fair, for pointing out repeatedly how fat you thought Anthony Strangers was.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah, what the hell? We have something on this podcast called a Dringo, which is where we drink and bingo, every time someone drops their exact weight, which I don't know why they're doing that all the time, but dingo on the Vanity Fair article, because he drops his weight, he's like, the 300 plus pound strike strangest. Who placed a pizza order using his real name is how they got caught. And I'm like, how did you know his weight?

[Lindy West]

He's like, everyone made fun of the vegan for eating the cheesy pizza, but the pizza was only for the fat husband who's 300 pounds. Like, okay, bud. And I, I went and I rewatched a little bit of the documentary in preparation for this, and it interviews the guy that wrote the article, and. And it shows him at his little standing desk doing his typing. And I feel like that's a red flag for body image issues if you.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Have a standing desk. Yes.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

One of those little under the desk treadmill things that you can walk On.

[Lindy West]

Exactly. I was like, bud, your. Your feelings are bleeding into the story.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

You know what I mean?

[Lindy West]

You had to do some work on your own internalized fatphobia because you're a little bit chunky, which is fine for me.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I think it's fine.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah. That is so fascinating. He really went like, vegan is healthy and this guy's disgusting. And like, that became a part of the article more so than the scam. Yeah, definitely.

[Lindy West]

Being a great big fat person is the least of strangest crimes, I would say.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I would argue that too. Usually with an article like this, you get more into, like, if you're going to kick things off by saying, oh, she's been called the vegan Bernie Madoff, I expect at least a deep dive into some of the. Her victims.

[Chelsea Devantes]

The financials.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Like, who.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Who are the victims of the. Of this terrible fraud that is on par with, you know, what Bernie Madoff did. And it's like, her husband is fat, y'. All. At the very beginning, though, really, the only quote you get from a victim is she engaged in conduct unbecoming of a vegan. So, like, right away you have this dichotomy of like, we really do hold, like, vegans up to a much higher moral standard. But he's really making the case that she was like, corrupted by this, like, non vegan, overweight, like, bad. And I think he was. I think that Anthony Strange is clearly was engaging in domestic abuse, domestic violence, using coercive control. But the fact that he is fat became a part of the indictment against him. What it's like, well, he also stole a million dollars from her, if anyone cares.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And her. It really reeked of. For me, maybe it's still present where it's like making fun of vegetarians and veganism as if, like, that's an insane. That it's insane to not want to destroy animals all the time. It had that weird. Like, you could tell if she had just had a pizza shop in Brooklyn.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantes]

It wouldn't have gone viral. Like, they were really mad that she was vegan.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And was also dating a man who eats cheese pizza.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

It was like the secret sauce of like, rich lady, she's white, she's beautiful, she's blonde, she's wealthy, and she's a vegan. And so I just think we at the time and probably still just like salivating at the downfall of somebody like that who just is like just the vegan Regina George. I mean, I'm sure she's not. I'm sure she's very Nice. I don't know. But, like, that's like the secret recipe for, like, really a viral article. And also, none of the victims. Well, the victims are kind of nameless, faceless of this article. But to the extent you hear from them, you're like, okay, those people are rich, and I don't care about them at all. So it's like, if you can get a story where someone gets defrauded and the victims kind of suck, that's. That's the sweet spot.

[Lindy West]

Except for the poor little employees who got wage thieves.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I'm never speaking of you poor little employees who did not get paid.

[Chelsea Devantes]

But again, they are not really placed in this article as some. And like, Bernie Madoff, like, going after poor people, ruining elder lives and sarma. Yeah, she didn't pay those wages, but then after that, she really just kind of ruined her own life. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lindy West]

Mainly. Mainly her own life. Also, I have. I have a tag I'd like to say about making fun of vegans. Lot of clowning on vegans, which is really missing the point that the crazy part of it is the raw part. Yeah, totally normal to be vegan. You don't need to be raw.

[Chelsea Devantes]

That's such a good point. I am. I myself am a vegetarian, and so I'm like, I'm with it. And the things they describe in the restaurant, I'm like, no to that, though. Like, no, no to eating like a. A carrot steak that was cooked at 100 degrees.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

It's so. It's so sad to me. I used to work at, like, a. A private school. I was not a teacher. I was an like a admin, basically. But it was like a hippie private school. And first of all, none of those kids were vaccinated, so I hope they're doing okay. And second of all, many of them were vegans, and. And many of those vegans were raw food vegans.

[Lindy West]

And.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And I remember one of the kids whose name was like, feather Dust or something was like, Ms. Mays, I can't get my beet soup open. My raw beet soup, because he had it in one of those metal, like, carriers, you know, And I was like, I guess I could try to strong arm this, but it's gonna open and beet soup is gonna fly all over everyone. So I was like, feather Dust, I'm so sorry, I can't get this open. And he's like, well, what am I supposed to eat? And I was like, I don't know, maybe you could ask your classmates if they have anything extra. And he couldn't eat any of their.

[Lindy West]

Food because all of it was cooked.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

So I had to call his mom to be like, you have to come.

[Lindy West]

To school and bring your child some.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Food because there's nothing he could eat.

[Chelsea Devantes]

What did she bring?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

What did she bring? Oh, God, I wish I could remember. I'm sure it was just like apple slices.

[Chelsea Devantes]

I really want that to be the day that she was like it. He's getting a lunchable. I can't do this anymore.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Stopping at McDonald's. Enough is enough.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Well, I will say the pizza thing is actually pretty funny, which is that they're on the run from the police and the way they are caught is that her husband Strangis orders a domino's pizza, which is not the crazy part. Using his real name. That's the crazy part. You are running from the cops and you just. You gotta call the dominoes and you can't even be like, my name is Kermit the frog.

[Lindy West]

Not when fat guy need pizza. Hungry for pizza. You know, this is our Achilles heel as fat people. We don't have time to think when the pizza brain is activated.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I know. Crazy.

[Lindy West]

I had a question though, which was when I read that part of the article, I was like, so does the FBI have like a track, a Domino's tracker? Like, how are they tapped into the domino's tracker database?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Like, they're also following the tracker on the app.

[Lindy West]

Like, how did they know?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Okay, the cheese is. It's in the oven. I see on the tracker. It's in the oven. We got to go to the motel right now. That is so funny.

[Lindy West]

Is Domino's selling our data to law enforcement? What on earth?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Okay, this feels like a good time to take a quick break.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

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[Lindy West]

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[Megan Hatcher Mays]

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[Lindy West]

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[Megan Hatcher Mays]

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[Lindy West]

You brought it back.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

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[Lindy West]

You broke the Internet for a snack?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Snack wrap is back.

[Chelsea Devantes]

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[Megan Hatcher Mays]

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[Chelsea Devantes]

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[Megan Hatcher Mays]

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[Chelsea Devantes]

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[Megan Hatcher Mays]

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[Chelsea Devantes]

Free delivery. It's on Prime. Okay, let's dive back into the episode.

[Lindy West]

Where's the FBI? Like, okay, we know where this guy's gonna be ordering from. And they, like, they just started monitoring the dominoes.

[Chelsea Devantes]

It also kind of goes to Luigi Mangione, who got caught because someone called him in when he was eating at a McDonald's.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And you're like, y', all like, is everyone on the. In Domino's? Everyone at McDonald's is just, like, always on FBI's 10 Most Wanted. Like, being like, they're gonna eat here at some point.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And also, every customer is a narc. Like, my business. I have never in my life made even eye contact with another customer at McDonald's. Like, I wouldn't even be able to recognize anyone enough to call the FBI.

[Chelsea Devantes]

I would have felt that was a safe space if we were both at McDonald's. We are agreeing to have each other's backs against the billionaires. What the hell? Okay, I want to read another wild quote from this. Okay. So when Sarma gets caught, she goes to Rikers Island. And the quote is, some of her female cellmates taunted her, asking if it was true that vegans taste better. Their nickname for her was Sweet pussy.

[Lindy West]

Okay. Not to disparage a fellow fake journalist. I'm sure he's a real journalist. This man is gross. The degree to which this article is sexual.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Lindy West]

Is deeply disturbing. I mean, I guess you can just feel like. I feel like even just in the. How long ago did this come out? Like, 10 years ago.

[Chelsea Devantes]

I think about 10 years. Around 10 years ago.

[Lindy West]

I feel like standards have shifted, and we don't.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Vanity Fair is a supposedly respectable.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, I know.

[Lindy West]

I only said fake journalist because of the man's writing.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lindy West]

But, like, it's so lurid. There's that part, which I don't want to talk about. And then there's also the part where he's like. And then also he made her suck his dick.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Blindfolded.

[Lindy West]

Like, that's part of the.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

That was also part of the test.

[Lindy West]

I'm sure we'll get to that. But it's, like, so little attention is paid, as you said, Megan, to the fraud and the crime of it all. Yeah. So much attention paid to hot vegan forced to suck sweaty meat. Man wiener.

[Chelsea Devantes]

That is a great point. And I think when we get to.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

The end of the article, we have.

[Chelsea Devantes]

To circle back to that. But first, now we got to go on an Alec Baldwin, Hilaria Baldwin journey in the article. Okay. As a relationship Sarma was having with a man 13 years her junior was fraying. In 2010, Sarma met Alec Baldwin at her restaurant and accompanied him to a staged reading of Moby Dick in the Hamptons. I know from other research that I'll bring up later. Alec Baldwin was reading Moby Dick. So they were not going to a reading. Alec Baldwin was doing the reading of Moby Dick in the Hamptons. Oh, no.

[Lindy West]

Well, Moby Dick, that's her type, you.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Know, that's what she likes.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Moby Eaton Dick is her type. Yes. And Alec confided in late night conversations how much he, quote, wanted a wife and children. Her advice to the actor was to get a dog.

[Lindy West]

Honestly, slay. That's so funny.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Like, here is old as Alec Baldwin tried to get in your pants, and you're like, get a dog. Leave me alone.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And what's crazy is that the dog she tells him to get is the dog that she then gets. Who becomes the dog? Leon, who she believes is gonna live forever, which is why she stays married to her husband.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

It's just that everything about this story is so wild. And the fact that there's just like randomly in Alec Baldwin side quest just makes it that much more perfect. And the fact that she is kind of responsible for bringing Eladia Baldwin into our lives, who herself became sort of a viral low stakes scammer. It turns out she's actually Hilary from Boston. She's not from Spain. It just, it's so as delicious as those cauliflower couscous. I must say, to be like, like this scammer allowed this other scammer to get married to a blowharder. Said she used Hilaria as a shield against Alec Baldwin. I'm not going to date you. You should get a dog. Or here's my. Here's my customer here. You should date her instead.

[Chelsea Devantes]

One of my favorite revelations of reading hilarious Baldwin's horrible memoir is that there were so many scams colliding in one moment that it allowed all the other scams to flourish. Because there's also a yoga to the people scam that Hilaria is in right there. Then there's strangest scamming the restaurant, and then there's hilarious scam and like, no one can suss the other out because they're too busy scamming. Okay, so this is Hilaria in the article. After Baldwin met his future wife, Hilaria Thomas at Pure Food and wine in 2011, he set up a Twitter account for her. Just quick pause. Alec Baldwin set up a Twitter account for the girl he was dating? Why?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Why?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Why do we think that happened?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

So romantic.

[Lindy West]

Why? Why? He is, like, old and feeble already at this point. Surely she is more of the computer generation. Why does he want her to tweet?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Why does he want her online? Like, what good could come of that?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Alec Baldwin, I think, gets off on a certain type of attention, and Twitter, in its heyday, gave that right. Where. Yeah, it was very. It has always been very toxic. It's, like, probably the worst it's ever been in its current form. But I think that Alec Baldwin just really liked the information flow that Twitter provided. And I think it gave him really quick validation. And so I think he probably wanted her there to be a part of that, like, attention giving.

[Lindy West]

Right?

[Chelsea Devantes]

You are so right. I am now remembering that after Hilaria got outed for being Hillary from Boston, it was either Instagram or Twitter where he tweeted like, it's my wife's birthday. Please follow her so she can get to a million followers as the birthday present. But it was after the scam had come out and you were like, sir.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

What?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Sir, get outside.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

It's just interesting in this article too, that, like, this is before we knew about Hillary from Boston by a few years. And it's just interesting that, like, Alec Baldwin kind of presents himself to the journalist as, like, savvy enough to know that something's. Something's not quite right here. Like, he's like. There's one part where Anthony Strangest texts.

[Lindy West]

Alec Baldwin to be like, can you.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Help me get a realtor in the Hamptons? And Alec Baldwin is like, oh, yeah, how much do you want to spend? And Anthony says, $10 million. And then Alec Baldwin was like. So I texted him back and I said, wow, you must be selling a lot of cucumber tow there. As if he's like, so savvy. He could never. He. He could never get wrapped up in a little fraud scheme like this. And I was like.

[Chelsea Devantes]

But also, like, you eat there, sir.

[Lindy West]

Why are you. There's no way he eats there by choice. Yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Like, where do you find out about your wife? Okay.

[Chelsea Devantes]

But like, oh, my God.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Way to condescend.

[Chelsea Devantes]

You're so right. Okay, so this Is this is so nuts. He writes one of hilarious. Hilarious. Hilaria, Hilarious. One of her first followers was a clever guy with the handle at disciple of who had already been interacting with Alec Baldwin. At the beginning, it just seemed like this fun thing, Laria recalled. He seemed nice. He used to make us laugh. Soon at Sarma was following this fellow who used various humorous names, including Mr. Fox and Mr. Longbottoms. So aliases. Okay. Mr. Fox seemed to know just what to tweet to win at Sarma's heart. On October 28, 2011, Sarma blew a Twitter kiss to Mr. Fox at. You know you want underscore it for guessing why she had named her dog Leon, even though she'd posted in her easily searchable blog a year earlier that it was from Leon the Professional, the Luc Besson film about a hitman. Quote. I love anyone who guesses. Usually I get like, Kings of Leon and then they start Twitter dming, like, getting into a relationship. She tweets that she loves him and blows him a kiss before they've ever met. And his mom says at the time when he was tweeting all of these celebrities, he was living in a van with his father near the docks in New Bedford, Massachusetts.

[Lindy West]

It feels like that. That whole section feels like it's from an alien planet. As a person who was a robust Twitter user around that time, the part where Eladia is like, it was fun. He made us laugh. Like, who has that kind of relationship with a random person? I know who follows them on Twitter. What celebrity?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Alec Baldwin. I know a lot at stake here.

[Lindy West]

Also, like me, you're rich.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Do you not have hobbies? You don't do activities? Like, you're just on there being like, I wonder what at Mr. Fox 69 is up to? I'm gonna DM him and see if he has any jokes. Like, you're friends with Tina Fey.

[Lindy West]

Call her. What are you doing? God. Also, in what universe is at you know you want underscore it. Not a red flag.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yes.

[Lindy West]

What are you talking about?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Having multiple Twitter accounts is a red flag. Like, they thought it was fun. Meanwhile, he's like, I've got seven fake accounts going at all times. There was an era. And Lindy, I think this is the era you're referring to, where people would meet on Twitter and, like, date and celebrity friendships would happen. That was. I don't know. It was like early Raya, but on a public platform. But it is odd that they were becoming friends with a faceless stranger. Like, usually it was like, oh, You're a journalist. I am an actor. Let's DM and get into a weird relationship.

[Lindy West]

If you're Alec Baldwin, the number of people, the volume of random people who are tweeting at you at any given time. Okay, so someone said something funny. I wasn't, like, remembering who that was and being like, oh, that's my friend now. And then also realizing that that's the same guy as these other guys. Like, I just don't understand how any of that happened. I guess if Hilaria only had like eight followers at the time, maybe she.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Well, it's that old algorithm where they used to show you who you actually follow. We can blame that because they followed disciple of Todd back so they saw all his stuff. Okay, I'm gonna skip ahead a little bit, but basically, a lot of horrific stuff happens. Sarma and Anthony Stranges get together. She has an abortion. They get married. He then convinces her that they are being surveilled out of that. Gets all of her passwords to everything. He has some sort of like brother who's surveilling them, who's good or evil. And then he tells Sarma that the money she was lending him was one of a series of cosmic endurance tests, similar to a series he had passed years earlier. Passing meant vast rewards. Quote, he convinced me I'd be empowered and ways I couldn't imagine. Sarma explains, quote, I would have access to unlimited resources so that I could grow my brand all over the world. Make the documentary I always wanted to make, the one that would finally change people's ways and help eradicate factory farming. Honestly, a truly beautiful, noble cause. This is really sad. She said, basically, I could do all the world changing things I'd been quietly dreaming about. I could help whoever I want and stay young forever doing it. And her dog would live forever. Which, listen, if someone convinced me my dogs were gonna live forever, I am in the cult.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I am peeing the dick blindfolded, not blindfolded. Whatever.

[Lindy West]

Speaking of, I'm sorry. He went through the series of tests as well. Which fat guy's D did he s. And what did the blindfold look like?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And how does one pass this test?

[Chelsea Devantes]

And why doesn't he have money from the past? Like, where's his abundance of things? Anthony, Hello.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

But, yes, if somebody came to me and said, I can keep your dog Kevin alive, I'd say, yes, I will steal a million dollars from my business.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah, have everything I own and you.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Can spend it on Domino's all day.

[Lindy West]

You're so right.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And again, going back to the actual crime, according to the indictment, over time, Sarma transferred more than 1.6 million from her business accounts to Anthony, who spent it at Connecticut Casino.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, that's the best part.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Dark.

[Lindy West]

Now, why would you go to Connecticut?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Freaking Atlantic Cities right there. You said Connecticut.

[Lindy West]

Why? I mean, a million dollars, you couldn't.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Get on a plane to Las Vegas, sir.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Oh, no.

[Lindy West]

I don't like it when the scammers do this. He also went after her mother.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Lindy West]

And. And stole a bunch of money from her apple orchard, which is like.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Oh, come on.

[Lindy West]

So mean.

[Chelsea Devantes]

It is horrifying. And also, I also just. You know, there's a lot. There's so much insanity in this. But Sarma had a great mission. Do I want to eat raw food? No. But is getting rid of factory farming an incredible cause to push forward? Yes. Her mom has a damn apple orchard. And then again, she's being called Bernie Madoff or, like, vegan vixen.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Right?

[Chelsea Devantes]

And so then there's just so much sexism in the condemnation of her, too, where it's. None of it matches up. Anthony should have had the headlines. And then this is the end of the article, because I have updates for y'. All. Okay. End of the article. Quote, imagine suddenly realizing my dog isn't gonna live forever. I'm not eternally safe. All my dreams and visions that he promised me he'd make happen are not happening. And this colossal mess isn't all going to be undone like he always said it would be. It's like waking up into a nightmare. End quote. As of October, Sarma was living in a small upper Manhattan rental, hoping to find a way to pay everyone back and regularly feeding her dog yams to help with his digestion.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Well, look, I can relate. I don't want to wake up and realize that one day my dog will be gone. I live in denial about that fact as well.

[Chelsea Devantes]

I also think, like, when I first read this article, I was like, yeah, feeding your dog yams, like, helps with digestion. And then I reread it. I said, oh, he's being a dick to her.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, it's crazy. It's just, like, not only did she have, like. I mean, she went into it with a good mission and best of intentions, but she was making a lot of money, too, which suggests that, like, this approach could be popular. And, you know, people might be on board with eating a little bit differently, maybe eating a little bit less meat. There's no reason why she couldn't have paid all of her Bills. She was making something like $7 million or something like that. But.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah, but she was also, like, wildly in debt when she met him.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah. So just something went very wrong there. And also, I would just like to add that another quote near the end of the article is the prosecutor in Anthony's case being like, wow, he didn't lose any weight at Rikers.

[Lindy West]

Like, oh, that's right. Who cares how fat this man is or is not? Also, inadvertently made a great argument for why we shouldn't fat. Shame, people. Sounds like being a vegan couldn't make that man thin. He's just born to be piggy. So sorry, I'm allowed to say it.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah. Listen. And so here's what's crazy. The bad vegan documentary on Netflix then comes out in 2022. So years after this, then I went to look up updates because Sarma has now self published a memoir that, as of this recording, came out yesterday, July 8th. The title of the memoir, the Girl with the Duck Tattoo, frustrates me because we already had Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and then we had Girl with the Lower Back T from Amy Schumer. Now we're at Girl with the Duck. It's just not a good legacy.

[Lindy West]

I mean, like, if Amy Schumer if, like, okay, so one person did the joke on the dragon tattoo.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah.

[Lindy West]

You can't do the joke again.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah. And also, it's not a good joke. You just not a good joke. Dragon with duck. And you really do have the duck tattoo.

[Lindy West]

Anyways, it's not a good joke, but it's even worse that it's already been done.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Exactly, exactly. And so I go and read this article that it's like, hey, here's all the updates with, like, there's going to be a second documentary and Sarma has her book coming out. And I'm reading the article. I pulled some quotes from it. I went to go see, like, oh, wait, who wrote this? So I can cite it in our episode. It's the same guy. Me.

[Lindy West]

Not. Not Alan. Alan again.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Alan Sulkin on Grub Street. Okay, so Vanity Fair didn't want the return. They were like, we're done. So he pitches it to Grub Street. What's also crazy is that means Sarma said yes to talking to this same guy again.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Didn't she say she was mad about the Netflix documentary? Right.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yes. Okay, so not only did she say yes to the same author, Alan Salkin, to come back and do another hit piece when she's getting her book out, but he's Here to do like, hey, is there gonna be another documentary? Well, she hated the original Bad Vegan documentary. Once she went to jail, a bunch of documentary filmmakers come to her and they're like, hey, we would like to make your documentary. Instead of going with anyone with experience or a real production company, quote, she chose to work with an old friend, a Pure Food customer named Mark Ems. He had little experience, but she figured he could help her make what she wanted, something that could be useful to others in manipulative relationships. So the person who produced the documentary about her that she hated, Bad Vegan, was a friend and customer with no documentary experience. But who do you think she got to produce the second follow up documentary?

[Lindy West]

Same, same person. See? Okay, so I have so many for this one girl. There's something so strange about Sarma. And first of all, Sarma, beep boop boop. The cops. You need to get a restraining order against Alan. He's been on your beat now for like 15 years.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, 12. 15 years. That's right.

[Lindy West]

Not normal. Not right thing two, there's just something about her that is very, like, sort of spooky and detached. Like, I kind of truly do believe that she was 100 victimized by Anthony because there's like, she's obviously smart, but I don't know. There's this. At the very beginning of the documentary, she's like, yeah, I don't know. I was an econ major, so then I just went to business school because that's what my classmates were doing.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I don't know.

[Lindy West]

So then I went to work for Bear Stearns. And then someone asked me, are you happy here? And I was like, happy? What's that like? I feel like she is like, honestly, I want to say, like, neurodivergent in some way where it's like she kind of isn't.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

She's just sort of floating around kind of rudderless a little bit, just doing whatever.

[Lindy West]

Did I say spoil or something?

[Chelsea Devantes]

You did. Well, in her memoir, she says she was diagnosed with autism one.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Which was formerly called Asperger's, which we don't call anymore. It was named after a doctor who was associated with the Nazis and did a bunch of horrible things. So that's just a PSA for everyone who maybe didn't know not to use that term. Just putting that out there. Okay, so Sarma did come to find out that she was neurodivergent and believes a big part of how she was so viciously scammed was because she believed and trusted Anthony Stranges. And that he was able to manipulate her because she believed Anthony's lies.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it sounds like based. I mean, like in the documentary. It's true. She just is kind of like, well, I just was kind of doing what people seem to tell me I should do, you know?

[Chelsea Devantes]

But it doesn't explain why you do everything. Again, it doesn't explain why you go back to Mark Ems, who again produced the Bad vegan diet documentary, which you hated. And it's a really twisted thing where, like, she's in debt and she needs money and some guy with a documentary will give her money, but then is like, hey, and I'll pay for your therapist. Your therapist should be my brother in law. Like the second article on Grub street, which I will link. Yeah. Is like, it's so bad and twisted. And she's like, well, I do need therapy and I do need my rent paid, so I'll sign up with you both again. Even though they fuck her over again, Mark Ems doesn't end up coming through at the point of writing this because he is engaged to an actress and always on vacation and talking about how rich he is. What actress do you think he's engaged to?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Oh, my God.

[Lindy West]

Not that. That lady from Nexium.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Nope.

[Chelsea Devantes]

It is Bella Thorne.

[Lindy West]

Yes, good form.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Bella Thorne. I love her. She really is just like, not as. Not so much anymore. But I will say I miss her, but she just had such a way of. Of appearing in every single photograph at every single event. I can't name you a single thing she's ever been in, but I feel like I've seen every single outfit she's ever worn in her life.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And do you remember when she was tweeting about, like, starting an. Only fans because she's studying sex work because she's doing a movie, and she was so horrible to sex workers that the guy supposedly directing the movie, Sean Baker, was like, I have nothing to do with Bella Thorne. And I am almost positive that was the movie Anora.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I was gonna say it sounds like a Nora.

[Chelsea Devantes]

I think she was originally attached to be Honora and then was so horrible that she was unattached.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Well, wow, What a journey that was. That was fun.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Well, it's not fully over because I have an excerpt from Sarma's recently published memoir that I want to read to you both. But first, please guess how many pages is the Girl with the Duck Tattoo memoir?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I'm gonna say, like, 150, 62, 730.

[Chelsea Devantes]

There's no way that is longer than Jane Fonda's memoir.

[Lindy West]

Well, speaking of Moby Dick, is it longer than Moby Dick? Yes.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And Lyndy, you are.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I don't.

[Chelsea Devantes]

You gotta check your psychic abilities because one of the people who blurbed her book, which is a huge red flag for me, is the actress from nxivm and Mark Vicente, who was part of the NXIVM documentary Shut up. Who is also the director of what the Bleep Do We Know. Oh, my God.

[Lindy West]

And by the way, Mark, I'm on to you too, and your, like, little reputation. Resuscitation, Mark Vicente.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Wait, I'm sorry, you guys, I have to do this again. I'm so sorry. I grew up pretty New Agey, so what the Bleep do we know was given to me as a child is, like, great science breakthroughs that, like, I should really study. So imagine me watching NXIVM being like, whoa, that's crazy. Being like, wait, that guy made this film? That. Wait, that's not science. Oh, my God.

[Lindy West]

He made it up when he made.

[Chelsea Devantes]

The what the Bleep do we know he was a part of a different cult that funded that film. Okay, you guys are nodding like you already know this.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Ugh. I think it comes up in that insane HBO NXIVM documentary.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Not enough people don't realize, like, like, this man was in a cult, made a film, escaped, joined another cult.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

He really missed the togetherness of the.

[Lindy West]

Cult lifestyle, so he joined another one and then made a film about that cult.

[Chelsea Devantes]

I'm like, again.

[Lindy West]

But, like, he made a film about the second cult so that he could be like, wow. I was actually really against the cult and I'm actually good. And I actually wanted to save the women from the culture.

[Chelsea Devantes]

In my last month there. Yeah, years. Not the first decade, but the last.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Few months, but for about five business days at the end, I was like, we gotta do something about this.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yes. Okay. All right. I'm going to read a couple paragraphs from an excerpt from Sarma's memoir.

[Lindy West]

How did you even find an excerpt to choose?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Did you buy it?

[Lindy West]

Did you flip to a random page? Are you on her PR list?

[Chelsea Devantes]

And if anyone is about to comment, will you cover this memoir? The answer is no. I am not reading 730 pages. But I did find a British publication published this piece of her memoir, which is also interesting that she's not getting more press.

[Lindy West]

Like, yeah, I'm surprised that she self published me. She could definitely have sold it to someone.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I bet you she tried to sell It. And she's like, I want it to be 700 pages and I want it to be completely psychotic. And even the publishing company was like, no, girl.

[Chelsea Devantes]

No girl. Makes no sense. She still needs money. She's in debt. She can't pay for anything. She has to pay back all these crimes. She needs money. Self publishing is harder. That's the harder way to get money. Selling up front, getting the paycheck, having people sell the book for you binds the book for you, ship it out for you. She is doing all of that for herself. I think something really fishy happened there. There's great reasons to self publish. I don't know if she had one of them. Okay, let me set the stage for this excerpt that I'm about to read. So let's go back in time to when Sarma first met Alec Baldwin, when he began coming into her restaurant and she had a long term younger boyfriend. Now, in the article we read, he kind of painted it like Sarma told Alec Baldwin to, like, get a dog if he was lonely. However, according to what I'm about to read, Sarma and Alec dated. She goes with him to his reading of Moby Dick, and she writes, I was watching him in the audience and then it hit me. I love this man. Okay, they've only been emailing. This is their first date in the Hamptons.

[Lindy West]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea Devantes]

They spend the night in separate bedrooms. In the morning, he's like, come crawl into bed with me. And they kiss. And she's like, well, we didn't have sex. We just morning kissed. And then she said, he came and picked me up at the restaurant that night. He'd said my life would be easier. I considered being taken care of in that way. He'd not outright said that he'd pay my debts, but it was sort of implied. Looking out at the dark expanse of the ocean because she's visiting him in the Hamptons, where they are on a date, even though she has a boyfriend. I realized this was yet another reason it would never work. I couldn't let someone just wipe out my problems for me. The next week, my phone pinged Justin, who works at the restaurant, said, alec is here talking to a super hot brunette. Cool. I texted back, thinking, screw off, Justin. I don't need to hear that. The hot brunette Alec met at my restaurant turned out to be Hilary Thomas. Later, Hilaria Baldwin, now mother of their seven kids.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Seven kids. Oh, Jesus.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And then she was basically like, I was hurt. I wanted to date Alec. I just, like, was stuck with this other Boyfriend. And then she said, I started interacting with at disciple of Todd because, quote, since Alec followed him, I assumed they were friends or at least acquaintances.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Oh, boy. You know, I hate to say this. I think she would have been better off with Alec Baldwin.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Oh, yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And I would. And I would normally, under no circumstance would I ever utter such a sentence.

[Lindy West]

I mean, honestly, I was sitting here, I was sitting here thinking, like, not to be a shill for the patriarchy, but I think that what this lady needs is a nice rich husband who's not an abusive cult guy and who will just like pay her debts and take care of her. She's very beautiful. I like, do it the. The old fashioned way is what I'm saying.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Maybe. What's interesting is Alex's pitch is identical to Anthony's. Exactly. It's just that Anthony didn't have any money.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Well, to be honest, Alec didn't tell her her dog was going to live forever. And that. Big difference.

[Lindy West]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

But the, the idea of like, wiping clean her financial woes and like her work stress and stuff, that was effectively, you know, and also, Alec Baldwin is not a good person, so who knows how. Maybe they would have. Maybe Alec and Sarma would have ended up in Pigeon Forge in the Titanic novelty restaurant together too, in the end, eating vegan Chipotle. I don't know. It's hard to say, but I. It is interesting that, like, her path diverged with the same offer, kind of.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yes.

[Lindy West]

You know?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think what is so sad that really gets lost in all of this insanity is that. But she was in a mentally coercive, abusive relationship. And I find it so odd that, like, when you read like, this woman gave millions of dollars to this person who she said herself she's not even attracted to and believes her dog's gonna live forever. The takeaway was then, like, can you believe she did this? Versus, like, this is the. The only thing that makes sense.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Is that she was manipulated into a cult of one. Yeah. It doesn't make sense any other way.

[Lindy West]

And it's.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And instead people still tried to be like, this was her fault. And you're like, she believes her dog's gonna live forever.

[Lindy West]

Are you in your mind?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Not even. She didn't find him attractive. It says that she was repulsed by him as he gained weight. And so it's like, she must have really believed it if it is true that she was like.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Well, I think by that time she was already under his manipulation.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Devantes]

That's the part that gets lost in the article and the documentary and perhaps her book. I don't know, I didn't read all of it. But it's like the part you should be looking at is like, how could this happen to a woman like that? It happens to women. We just read Christie Brinkley's book And she gave $2 million to a scam artist as well, her third husband. Like, it happens. So it's not that crazy. And if you don't follow the red flags, it could happen to you.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

It's not that crazy. And also I just think that it's because we gleefully want people whom we think are like, you know, live blessings, best life to take a hard fall, you know. So it's a lot more fun to be like this vegan, this like condescending superiority complex vegan, beautiful blonde woman. She sucks. Like that's a lot more fun as like, as a member of the hater mob. A lot more fun to do that than to be like, oh, well, it was just regular. It was just regular bad male behavior.

[Lindy West]

Regular fat bad male behavior.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Thank you.

[Lindy West]

You get to cheer for the downfall of the hot vegan who thinks she's better than everyone because she only eats cucumbers. And then you also get to blame it on the disgusting fatness of the evil fat cult. Man, it's. Oh, and it start to be like, who's left? Who are all these people in the middle that are like neither of those.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Things, by the way, the best part.

[Lindy West]

Is the people in the middle are Alec Baldwin and his liar wife. Just it's like the best shit from top to bottom.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Everyone involved is crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. It's amazing. It's incredible. Incredible.

[Lindy West]

To be clear, I don't think she should just get any husband cuz obviously the husbands can't be trusted. But there's got to be like someone out there who wants to protect a hot lady from being scammed.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

That has to exist a genuine where are you?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Where is the man who wants to run the regular degular scam of patriarchy from a worse scam?

[Lindy West]

I just say it was literally because I think she would be happy if someone just like was taking care of the was like a firewall for the scams and then she can just run her little vegan restaurant. Let the lady's clearly good at running a vegan restaurant.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah, but that, but that is what's nuts because husband aside, that exists in she has a story to sell and capitalize on. This is still one of the most clicked on Netflix documentaries. Yeah, she could sign up for another documentary and she signs with the same guys and the wrong guys. She could sell a best selling book with a publisher. Chose not to. Like, there are avenues of protection and finance and people looking out for her and she's not finding them or like there is something going wrong there.

[Lindy West]

Well, that's what I'm saying. She needs a benevolent Svengali. Could be. Could be a woman. Okay. Lesbian Svengali.

[Chelsea Devantes]

There's a. There's a crop of lesbian Svengalis coming out in popular culture. And I like the, you know, Ruby, Frankie.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I know.

[Lindy West]

Then there's evil, culty, lesbian. Spangled, too. Okay, how about me? I'll do it.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Okay.

[Lindy West]

Run all your business opportunities by me. I'm not a good businesswoman, but I can smell a scam.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Can I introduce a potential wrinkle? Because I feel like all of us have basically forgiven bad vegan for being bad. And also we were too judgmental of her at the time. But I think maybe like the least charitable interpretation of what's going on here is that she's doing this all independently because she doesn't want to pay back any of her victim slaves. Like, she's potentially. I don't know. I don't know where she lives or what she's doing. She potentially lives just comfortable enough a life where she doesn't really have enough money to pay restitution, but she can live. And so if she takes these big jobs, it's really just money that she's handing over in restitution to her fraud. That's a potential wrinkle. I don't know that I necessarily believe what I just said, but I cannot think of any other reason.

[Chelsea Devantes]

She has paid. Paid some of it back. Here's the reason I think is that she no longer trusts editors or producers.

[Lindy West]

Of any kind, except for the one that already.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And that she's like, I don't want to be messed with anymore. I'm gonna do it. Or she doesn't want to be vetted. She doesn't want the information she's gonna put in the book to be vetted in any way.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Which would be the bad version. Okay, we end every episode with the click link lit quiz. Three questions. We will answer all of them. First off was the original article we're here to talk about. Was the article well written?

[Lindy West]

No, no, no.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Absolutely not. Alan, how dare you?

[Lindy West]

I don't know. From a sentence structure standpoint, I don't remember. But I think there's more to writing than that. And as a writer myself, I would say no, you've done a poor job, Alan.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

It's a. It's a deep dive. And yet I feel like I received no information about what happened except for that. That the husband was fat. And I don't need to know that.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Such a good point. And I'm also a no. Like, again, you were making fun of this woman and her dog. She gave away $2 million. Something's wrong. Please report on it. Okay, second question. Did reading this article make you want to yell about it with someone in your life either at the time or on the reread?

[Lindy West]

I think that. That. That's evident from the yelling that we just did.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yes.

[Lindy West]

I want to call Megan after this is done and yell about it more.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And per the theme of our own podcast, we were, of course texting about it right before we joined you to be like, oh, did you see this part? So, yes, it was. I did want to yell about it. And that person was with Lindy and then again with you.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And that. That's what makes it viral article hall of fame. Yeah. So yellable. Final question. Did reading this article deepen your understanding or thinking on the topic?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think I probably, to the extent I engaged with the article originally and then probably more so with the documentary, I was pretty firmly like, oh, this lady is. I. I was one of the gleeful haters who was like, we got him. We got the vegan on a reread. I was like, no. Yeah, no. I think this man did the crime of coercive control. And I think that she probably is not a perfect person and probably made a lot of mistakes, but I think she just got taken in by somebody who promised her all this stuff and she really believed it. And she seems like somebody who spent a big chunk of her life just kind of riding the wave of whatever everybody else was doing without using a lot of, like, decision making skills, you know?

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Lyndy.

[Lindy West]

I think that anyone who jumps to a sort of smug conclusion of like, oh, how did this victim ever fall for this scam? Needs to spend more time watching scam documentaries because they are always the same and they really work. That's why people keep doing it. It works. I don't know. I know, it's bizarre. There's so many documentaries every time where you're like, why does this lady think that Mark Harmon is her Internet boyfriend? I don't know why. That's why I picked, you know, like. Like, why would she think that, but they do because the people have recognizable like desires and patterns. And if you could detect a person's weakness and you have low moral fiber and you're willing to exploit it, it works.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Lindy West]

And like spend some more time researching before you do a whole smug nose in the air speech about how people are stupid because they're not stupid and you're next.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, well, it's true. I mean, I, I think that like a lot of people, and I am one of them, I, I very strongly, I'm just like, I could never get got. And I'm working on it, working on the smug condescension, but there are so many ways where people like me are like, I could never get got on an interpersonal level like that. But it's because I'm so suspicious of everyone that I'm like, it actually is like blocking a lot of other things coming into my life too. Cause I'm so suspicious of like, how other people behave. What do you want from me? What are you doing? You know? Yeah, but also the other thing is like, we are regularly getting scammed and getting got by like systems all the time. And so to be sort of smugly condescending to people who are getting scammed on like a person to person basis or like relationship basis is kind of ungenerous given that we are all victims of like this grand scam that's going on like, like to all of us.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And yeah, I totally, I agree with everything you both said. And I think I'm gonna go with no on the deepening of my understanding because I would like to have known more about his coercive control because all it looks like that's true is wildly unbelievable. And the one thing I picked up on because I guess I'm smug is that even though the article didn't delve into the coercive control and how it happened, I felt what was clear to me is that how much you can project onto a relationship when you are on the Internet, like your brain can take over and project trust so much more when it's happening on the Internet than when it's happening in person. A lot of this was made possible because they fell in love via DMs, no pictures exchanged, only writing. And when he showed up, according to her book, they had sex within the first 10 seconds. And that's how she had to get an abortion. Yeah, there was no interpersonal processing because you would project it so much. And I think that's again that huge scam wave of when so much Happens, like online, outside of you, with detachment, your psyche kicks in to make it all make sense. Yeah.

[Lindy West]

Yes.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I think that's so true. Yeah.

[Lindy West]

That's the scammers, bread and butter. Also being able to figure out the person that this person needs and then construct that Persona and be it. That's how you get in there.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah. And that by the time you meet in person, they're not willing to believe the things that are actually true about you. Like, they're not able to see, like, red flags about who you really are.

[Chelsea Devantes]

You know, because you've already created that strong first impression. Everything's been filtered through, which is why everyone listening to this podcast and knows that we would all suck dick for our dogs to live could come and Svengali us anytime, blindfolded. Not.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Whatever, man, whatever.

[Lindy West]

I. Oh, I want to say, I think I didn't answer the question, which is, did this deepen my understanding? And I was. I will say yes, in that I think I didn't remember from the documentary that she was really being, like, sexually exploited. Also, like, I feel like I didn't, like, know about the blowjobs. And, like, I understand they're married, but she clearly didn't want to.

[Chelsea Devantes]

And marital rape exists for a reason. Yeah.

[Lindy West]

Like, also, the moment when she gets the abortion is so heartbreaking because it's like you feel it, like, as the last moment where she still has, like, a shred of sort of personal power and you know that she's like, I do not want to have this man's child.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Lindy West]

And then she gets the abortion.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

She, at that point, only just has one foot over into. Yes, into devastation. Like, she could still come back at that moment. And you're like, no, don't go, Sarma.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah. She said, I vowed never to see him again because he purposefully gotten her pregnant, even though she told him certain things of, like, why. Why he shouldn't. You know, I'm trying not to end this podcast on cum, but I just. I'm talking about dog and dicks. So what am I doing?

[Lindy West]

It's my fault.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I did it.

[Lindy West]

What am I doing? Yeah, what am I doing?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I do love your point of. In a way, in some ways, my understanding of Sarma was deepened. In other ways, I feel like the article told me nothing of value.

[Chelsea Devantes]

We know more about Alan. Yeah, we know about.

[Lindy West]

Alan's told me a lot about Alan.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

My understanding of Alan has been deepened to the absolute Max.

[Chelsea Devantes]

You two are so wonderful. I am so happy we discussed this. Lyndy, were you going to Say something else.

[Lindy West]

I was gonna make fun of Ellen's hair in the documentary.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, well, yeah, listen.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Okay. I'm gonna say, lindy, why don't you plug the podcast and hair plug Alan as we go out and drop where everyone can find you, Listen to you. I know our fans are already fans of y', all, but just tell them all the things.

[Lindy West]

Oh, my God. We got a podcast. It's called Text Me Back, and it's on all of the podcast platforms, and you can go find it and listen to it, and it's really funny, and it's just me and Megan and Gavin just about whatever's going on.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

If you liked this, you will like our show. It's pretty much just this.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yes.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

If you didn't like this, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you?

[Lindy West]

Alan's hair in the bad vegan documentary looks weird and bad, so you should go check that out. And you can also find me on Substack. My newsletter is called Butt News, and.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I write about movies.

[Lindy West]

I write recaps of our favorite movies from the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And our podcast has a newsletter. It's free to everyone. So our podcast is Independence. So if you enjoyed this and you listen to our show and you like it, want to support it, we'[e-mail] text me back pod but we also have a free newsletter available to everyone, which is substack.com newslettermeback. And if you like New York Times bestselling author Lindy west, you're going to love the newsletter because she writes it. I'm really not involved. It's amazing.

[Lindy West]

Okay. Okay. But also, Megan has. Megan has a newsletter. Megan also has a newsletter.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I do. I need to update it more, but it's called SWAT person. I'm based on in D.C. and my day job is in politics and democracy. It's really depressing. Somebody help me. Swamp Person.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Swamp Person and Butt News are the substacks I would match, please, if I were a substack matchmaker.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Come check us out.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Yeah, go check them out. And, Lindy, when your book comes out, come back on the podcast. We're big readers over here. Send me an early galley. I can't wait to read it.

[Lindy West]

I can't wait for you to read it. And actually, I'm just about to do the cut cover reveal right after this.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I'm going online.

[Chelsea Devantes]

Okay, I'm going online. All right, Alan, you suck. And thanks for listening. Bye. A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, Our Executive Producer Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and every replay we will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier you can join leave a comment chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there.