Behind-the-Scenes Hollywood Hair Secrets Revealed with Mark Townsend

Summary

Podcast Summary: Behind-the-Scenes Hollywood Hair Secrets Revealed with Mark Townsend

Podcast Information:

• Title: Gloss Angeles
• Hosts: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan
• Episode: Behind-the-Scenes Hollywood Hair Secrets Revealed with Mark Townsend
• Release Date: March 14, 2025

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of Gloss Angeles, co-hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan sit down with esteemed celebrity hairstylist Mark Townsend. Known for his work with high-profile clients like the Olsen sisters, Mark delves into the intricacies of Hollywood hairstyling, the evolution of the beauty industry, and his personal experiences shaping iconic looks on the red carpet.

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Mark Townsend’s Journey in Hollywood Hairstyles

Mark Townsend begins by recounting his early career, detailing his start in 1996 as an assistant to renowned hairstylist Danilo and later to Sally Hershberger. He shares, “[05:09] I got asked how much has changed because of social media and everything else... We were the best secret keepers.” His dedication and mentorship under these industry giants laid the foundation for his successful career.

Quotes:

• “[05:09] Mark Townsend: I come from a time where hair and makeup, we were the secrets...”

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Evolution of the Hairstyling Industry

Mark discusses the dramatic shift in the hairstyling landscape brought about by social media. He explains how the once-secretive nature of hairstylists has transformed into a more transparent and branded profession. “[17:05] Location Announcer: The social media, like us being sponsored by brands, relied on social media.”

Quotes:

• “[17:05] Mark Townsend: Social media has been a constant battle, but now it's an accepted part of our industry.”

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Behind-the-Scenes Stories with Iconic Clients

Mark shares enthralling anecdotes from his time working with celebrities like Cate Blanchett and the Olsen sisters. One standout story involves styling Cate Blanchett for the premiere of The Good German, where Mark effortlessly transformed her look under immense pressure. “[27:04] Location Announcer: My all-time favorite was the premiere of The Good German with Cate Blanchett.”

He also narrates a memorable experience assisting Sally Hershberger during a chaotic Vanity Fair shoot in Miami, highlighting the intense demands of high-stakes hairstyling.

Quotes:

• “[27:04] Mark Townsend: It feels like me wrapped up in a hairdo...”
• “[11:21] Location Announcer: Sally and I raced to the airport...”

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Impact of Social Media on Celebrity Hairstyling

Mark elaborates on how social media has reshaped relationships between hairstylists, celebrities, and the public. He notes that while social media has increased visibility, it has also led to challenges such as legal disputes over image rights. “[18:39] Location Announcer: We were getting sued by photographers on Instagram for putting up red carpet pictures.”

Quotes:

• “[18:39] Mark Townsend: It’s tricky navigating the legalities of sharing red carpet photos on social media.”

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Hair Products and Recommendations

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around favorite hair products and their applications. Mark praises California Born’s "Days of Dirt" paste and cream for their texturizing benefits, emphasizing their non-heavy formula that maintains a lived-in look. He also discusses his long-term partnership with Dove, highlighting his role in advocating for their styling products.

Quotes:

• “[02:48] Mark Townsend: I just used California Born’s paste in my hair because it makes it look really thick.”
• “[23:03] Location Announcer: I had a contract with Matrix for three years... then Dove for 13 years.”

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Hair Extensions and Scalp Care Insights

Mark provides expert advice on hair extensions, recommending high-quality clip-ins from Garland Drake in Costa Mesa. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a healthy scalp, debunking myths about scalp conditioners and advocating for products that nourish without causing greasiness. “[41:42] Location Announcer: Healthy hair starts with a healthy scalp, and products should support that without drying out.”

Quotes:

• “[39:22] Mark Townsend: Garland Drake in Costa Mesa has the highest quality clip-ins I've ever worked with.”
• “[41:42] Mark Townsend: There are sprays and tonics like Olaplex that can moisturize the scalp without making roots oily.”

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Trends in Red Carpet Hairstyling

Mark distinguishes between hairstyling for editorial shoots versus red carpet events, emphasizing the need for durability and strategic styling to withstand long hours and diverse lighting. He shares his favorite work with Cate Blanchett, describing how quick yet intricate hairstyling can create effortlessly stunning looks. “[27:48] Location Announcer: Red carpet hairstyling requires every angle to be flawless, unlike editorial shoots.”

Quotes:

• “[27:48] Mark Townsend: On the red carpet, you're seen from every angle, so the STYLE must be perfect.”
• “[30:20] Mark Townsend: My favorite hairstyle I’ve done was for Cate Blanchett... it looks effortless but is meticulously pinned.”

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Favorite Tools and Techniques

In the rapid-fire segment, Mark reveals his favorite hairstyling tools, notably the R Session Pro Tools double barrel iron and the mix bristle round brush, which he has used for over 30 years. He discusses the advantages of traditional tools versus newer products, advocating for quality tools that deliver precise results. “[34:03] Location Announcer: The R Session Pro Tools double barrel iron is unmatched for creating perfect waves.”

Quotes:

• “[34:03] Mark Townsend: The R Session Pro Tools double barrel iron is impossible to find but essential for perfect waves.”
• “[48:09] Location Announcer: The mix bristle round brush has been my absolute favorite for decades.”

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Advice for Communicating with Hairstylists

Mark emphasizes the importance of clear communication when conveying desired hairstyles to hairstylists. He advises clients to use photos as conversation starters and to discuss their daily hair routines, natural texture, and maintenance preferences to achieve realistic and sustainable styles. “[37:13] Location Announcer: Photos are a perfect starting point, but also discuss your daily routine and hair texture.”

Quotes:

• “[37:13] Mark Townsend: It’s essential to have a conversation about your lifestyle and hair habits to ensure the hairstyle is manageable.”

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Current Industry Challenges and Trends

Mark critiques the inconsistency in hairstyling trends on the red carpet, advocating for cohesive looks that align with a celebrity’s image and the narrative of their projects. He expresses concern over the overuse of hairpieces and drastic, frequent hair changes that can disrupt a celebrity’s established look. “[50:45] Location Announcer: I think some hairstyles are too inconsistent and don't tell a cohesive story about the wearer.”

Quotes:

• “[50:45] Mark Townsend: I prefer timeless, cohesive hairstyles that represent a brand rather than erratic changes.”
• “[51:33] Location Announcer: Consistency in a celebrity’s hairstyle helps in telling a unified story throughout an event or promotion.”

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Closing Thoughts and Future Engagements

As the episode wraps up, Kirby and Sara encourage listeners to connect with Mark via Instagram and visit his salon in Los Angeles. Mark expresses enthusiasm for future collaborations, hinting at potential weekly appearances to share more hair insights and industry news.

Quotes:

• “[54:35] Location Announcer: I'm on Instagram at Mark Townsend 1. Cut on Mondays at Mesh Hair Salon.”
• “[55:59] Location Announcer: I would love to be a weekly guest and share more stories and insights.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Gloss Angeles offers an in-depth exploration of Mark Townsend’s illustrious career and the dynamic changes within the Hollywood hairstyling industry. From behind-the-scenes anecdotes with top celebrities to expert advice on hair care and product recommendations, listeners gain valuable insights into achieving and maintaining iconic red carpet looks. Mark Townsend's passion and expertise make this episode a must-listen for beauty enthusiasts and aspiring hairstylists alike.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “[05:09] Mark Townsend: ...we were the best secret keepers.”
• “[17:05] Mark Townsend: Social media has been a constant battle, but now it's an accepted part of our industry.”
• “[27:04] Mark Townsend: It feels like me wrapped up in a hairdo...”
• “[34:03] Mark Townsend: The R Session Pro Tools double barrel iron is impossible to find but essential for perfect waves.”
• “[37:13] Mark Townsend: It’s essential to have a conversation about your lifestyle and hair habits to ensure the hairstyle is manageable.”
• “[50:45] Mark Townsend: I prefer timeless, cohesive hairstyles that represent a brand rather than erratic changes.”

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Connect with Mark Townsend:

• Instagram: @MarkTownsend1
• Salon: Book a haircut on Mondays at Mesh Hair Salon, Los Angeles.

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Note: This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the episode, highlighting key discussions and memorable moments. It is intended for those who seek to grasp the essence of the conversation without listening to the full episode.

Transcript

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[Location Announcer]

Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Hi, Kirby. Hi, Sarah.

[Sarah]

Welcome to Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

This guest needs no introduction. Like, literally.

[Sarah]

Icon legend.

[Kirby]

Icon legend. One of the most in demand hairstyle. Celebrity hairstylists. You've seen his work. You know his work. You've cut pictures out of the Olsens and brought that photo into your hairstylist.

[Sarah]

Correct.

[Kirby]

That was Mark Townsend. Bang whisperer.

[Sarah]

Dakota Johnson. Period my hair.

[Kirby]

Period.

[Sarah]

Fix my hair, Mark. Fix it. My hair icon. Love her. Love her.

[Location Announcer]

Me too. Me too.

[Kirby]

We just, we're so, so, so happy to have you here today. You also listen, which makes it even more exciting.

[Location Announcer]

I'm a huge fan.

[Sarah]

Mark is a ray of sunshine. So we're thrilled to talk to you because Sarah and I have both been excited about this. I feel like it's such a long time coming, but anytime we get FaceTime with you in the chair, we know we're gonna learn something. Or, like, get this really good story of like, how some iconic hair came to be. Yes.

[Kirby]

And like, we've like, known Mark for so long now, like, like a decade. And you have always just been so kind, like ever since we were like baby beauty editors. Like, you just always are just such a kind human. So we're just so happy to have you here.

[Location Announcer]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I've been counting the, like, days.

[Kirby]

Oh, my gosh. I was like, bring the tea, Mark.

[Location Announcer]

Oh, I brought it.

[Sarah]

Bring the tea, Mark. Okay, Mark, before we get started on the tea, we wanna know what's on your face and in your hair.

[Location Announcer]

On my face is clinical. Wait, the cleansing complex. The what's the Alpha Hydra Alpha Serum? Sorry I'm messing up the name.

[Kirby]

No, no, no.

[Location Announcer]

And the moisturizing complex. I have to tell you, I travel so much with Georgie Eisdal, the makeup artist, and she got me. I, I just used to complain about, like, I have this combination skin, I'm getting older, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she gave Me, this regimen. And it is. I've stuck to it for like two years.

[Sarah]

Try to do.

[Location Announcer]

My skin looks better now at 51 than it did 10 years ago.

[Kirby]

Yeah, you look amazing.

[Sarah]

You do.

[Location Announcer]

Well, thank you.

[Kirby]

Okay, hair, Hair.

[Location Announcer]

Well, I just got my hair and beard colored on Monday by Sue Moi at Mesh Salon. But you know what I love? California Born makes a paste and also a cream called Days of Dirt. They're both amazing texturizer and I've got the paste in my hair right now.

[Sarah]

Oh, cool.

[Location Announcer]

Cause it also makes my hair look really thick.

[Sarah]

I feel like that's a first mention for California Born on a pod.

[Location Announcer]

Oh, you've got to get Jason to say it to you. It's amazing. And he makes it here in la. He's a men's groomer.

[Sarah]

No way.

[Location Announcer]

But the products are incredible, especially for that second day. Kind of like lived in like piecey around the ends. It's what I put on like Dakota's hair all the time when we want that more. Less brushed out, more piecey looking. It's that Days of Dirt. Cuz it's not. It's not heavy. It's great.

[Kirby]

Okay, where can you get. Can you get it?

[Location Announcer]

I mean, I get it on Amazon.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Oh, okay.

[Location Announcer]

Easy.

[Kirby]

Yeah, we love that. We have to talk about your career, obviously, where you got your start. You started assisting Sally Hershberger.

[Location Announcer]

I actually started assisting Danilo.

[Kirby]

Oh, sorry. First you started Danilo?

[Location Announcer]

Yes, in 1996.

[Kirby]

1996. Can you tell us what it was like working back then? Can you paint us a picture?

[Location Announcer]

I mean, the exact opposite of what it's like now? Yeah, it has changed a lot. But I got asked this question recently about how much has changed because of the social media and everything else. I come from a time where hair and makeup, we were the secrets. Like we were the smoke and mirrors behind the scenes that no one ever saw, no one ever heard from. And we were actually the best secret keepers. And then with the influx of social media, each individual artist became their own brand. And you have to promote your brand. So it became all the secrets are spilled now. Like, we don't keep those secrets to ourselves. And so that's changed in a big way. But I remember when press first started being allowed backstage at fashion shows. And I mean, talk about a change. Like the generation before me, like that was their big change. The models hated when press were allowed to come backstage because they were getting photographed before hair and makeup. And you were seeing the whole process. Hair and makeup people hated it because they Were being asked, like, how do you create this? And their whole thing is, I'm creating a fantasy. Like, a fashion show is not a reality at all.

[Kirby]

Right. And obviously, you hairstylists are stars, but a lot of you also just sort of wanted to stay behind the scenes as well. So for you to have to, like, be face to camera on social media doesn't feel natural to a lot of you.

[Location Announcer]

Not at all. I do have to say, though, working with Sally, I mean, she kind of was that one of the first of the major, like, celebrity hairstylists. Like, she was. I would have to blow out her hair. Cause she was going on the Today show to talk about trends, or she was always on camera. And I got to watch and learn a lot from her. It was incredible. And also working back then as an assistant, especially when I was with Danilo, he took me. I was his assistant. I went everywhere with him. You know, on photo shoots, if it was getting a celebrity ready for a red carpet, you always had your assistant. Same with Sally. And that's how we learned how to do hair, how to talk to a publicist, how to talk to a celebrity, how to talk to a photographer on set.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Location Announcer]

And then photographers like David LaChapelle, who always booked Danilo, he couldn't get Danilo. So he would then book me with Sally Hirshberger. Like, she would be in Los Angeles, I would be in New York, and I would do hair for her clients. And the magazine cover would still say, hair by Sally Hershberger.

[Sarah]

Yes. Okay.

[Location Announcer]

You know, but again, that's how you really learn. And it was like a safety net around you. Like, I tried to explain that to Clayton when he was assisting me. Like, you have a great safety net right now. This is where you get to ask questions and learn and observe everything.

[Sarah]

By the way, if you haven't listened to Clayton's episode, go listen to it. Because he references Mark and how he assisted him, and it's so cute. And it's crazy because now they're seeing each other at events, you know, like, on these levels of, like. Like, doing the hair for these amazing, amazing clients. Mark, I wanted to ask you, though, where are you from originally?

[Location Announcer]

Lakeland, Florida.

[Sarah]

Okay. How did you make your way out to LA? Or was it New York?

[Location Announcer]

New York.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Location Announcer]

In 1996, I. I graduated from cosmetology school, and, you know, I. I was going to college. It wasn't for me. So I went to the Travis Vocational Technical center, and I got my cosmetology license and went with a friend to New York who was looking at schools. And I was just tagging along to, like, go into all these salons that I had read about. And on that trip, I walked into the Orbe salon and it was like, I, like, the. The gates of heaven opened up in front of me, like, that salon in the 90s. I mean, I think Linda Evangelista was the first face I saw in the salon when I just walked the street. And I met, at the time, Orbe's boyfriend, manager Omar, was running the whole salon. And he came up to me. I was just like, can I help you? And I, like, I said I was a kid that just said, I just graduated from hair school. Like, this is. I've always wanted to just look in this place. He was like, oh, let me show you around. And he, like, took me around and then told me, if you really want to work here, like, there's a spot opening up on Orbe's team, but you have to be ready for Fashion Week. Like, I'd have to move in three weeks.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Location Announcer]

And I, like, one regret in my life. I said to him, like, oh, let me think about it, right? He's like, you know, you have to try out still, and you have to beat, like, some of the people that already work here, like, the assistants that are already here. And I was like, okay, I'll try it. And did it. And then I told. I was like on the plane on my way back to Florida thinking, like, I can't believe, like, that guy just handed me my dream. And I said, let's let me think about it. I called him the next morning, and I was like, I'm selling my car. I'm selling. I'm breaking the lease on my apartment. I'll do whatever it takes to get there.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

And so, like, two and a half weeks later, I moved to New York and slept on a friend's couch and took the train into the city every day. And I worked at Orbe for, I think, about six months. And the thing I wanted to be Orbe's first assistant. And he already had Judy. Like, anybody in the business knows Judy, who assisted for over 30 years. She was there. She was like his right hand. And she came in just before me. But it was all the people at the Orbe salon that introduced me to Danilo. And then through Danilo, I met Brooke Wall, his agent, and she introduced me to Sally Hirshberger. So I assisted Danilo for like a year and a half. And then I was Sally's assistant for three years.

[Kirby]

Wow. Can you share some of their clients, like Danilo and Sally's that you helped work on Danilo?

[Location Announcer]

Like, Danilo was so about fashion back then, so I would be on photo shoots with him with, again, like, David LaChapelle. These insanely creative photo shoots. Also, he work a lot with Saav Sanzabo. Like, really incredible photographers, like, celebrities. I think he was doing, like, Sarah Jessica Parker back then.

[Sarah]

Oh, my gosh.

[Location Announcer]

Wow. He hadn't started with Gwen Stefani.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Location Announcer]

I mean, talk about, like, a match made in heaven. But Sally really was that one hairdresser that was crossing over between a celebrity hairstylist and a major fashion hairstylist. So when I was working with her, we'd be on set with Italian Vogue with Steven Meisel one day, and then, you know, three days later doing Us Magazine when it was a monthly magazine. Oh, my God, like, doing the COVID with, like, Tom Cruise. So she. She was doing all the celebs and working with, like, the biggest photographers on fashion campaigns. It was an incredible time.

[Kirby]

What a legendary scene.

[Sarah]

Sally's energy is crazy, by the way.

[Location Announcer]

It's insane. Like, there's nobody like her.

[Sarah]

I remember when I first met her, I was a baby, just getting my start at Popsugar. She came in to do a hair tutorial. First of all, that bitch whipped everyone into shape. She knew exactly what she wanted. I was like, she's directing this. I just sat there kind of, like, laughing because she was just so in her element, and she was telling everybody else what to do, like, even the camera operators. It was incredible. And afterwards, everyone was like, who the hell was that woman? Because, you know, they're not in the beauty industry. I'm like, that's Sally Hirschberger.

[Kirby]

Babes, like, get pointed out.

[Location Announcer]

I used to walk behind her, and it was almost like following the Tasmanian Devil. Like, there was, like, swoops of products, scissors, combs, like, everywhere going off, and I'm, like, running behind, like, cleaning it up and picking it all up.

[Kirby]

Are there any, like, crazy stories? Like, one specifically, like, a memory from working for Sally that sticks out in your head?

[Location Announcer]

Oh, my God.

[Sarah]

You're like, every. Every day.

[Location Announcer]

Yeah. I mean, it was a tough. It was a tough time, but I think, like, Sally and I really kind of bonded on this trip. We had to go to Miami for the Vanity Fair Hollywood cover. It was one of those shoots where Annie Leibovitz had decided publicists weren't gonna be allowed on her set.

[Sarah]

Oh, wait. But kind of amazing, right?

[Kirby]

Only Annie could.

[Location Announcer]

Only Annie could do that. I Mean, we went to Miami to shoot in someone's backyard. I mean, we could have done it in Central Park. We could have done it in a studio. Just making it Travel Already magazine. She used to spend crazy amounts of money, but it was more of a like, yeah, the celebrities come, but you can't bring your publicist. So it was a pretty cool shoot to be on because you didn't have a million publicists telling you what to do. But we had horrible weather, and we used to have two days to shoot those covers back then. And everyone was together. They didn't put them in plates like you. Annie lined up everybody on set. It turns out, like, hurricane was coming in. We had half a day to do this shoot, and Sally and her other two assistants were on set. I was in the mobile home by myself with one makeup artist doing as much prep work as we could, then just get them to set. When I got to set with the. I was walking over with Penelope Cruz and walked over, and it was like, chaos. Like, I had never seen herding cats. It was worse than herding cats. It was trying to herd wind. Because Annie Leibovitz is the type of photographer that will say, like, I want her hair, her hair and her hair to blow, but, like, not the other ones. Oh, and they had set up the fans, and they were so they were crossing each other. So you couldn't control where the wind was going. So Annie's screaming at Sally. Sally is screaming at her whole team. Like, it was a lot. Annie's yelling at the celebrities. Like, I'd never seen anything like it. We get the shots. I'm holding, like, my flip phone back in the day, trying to make sure, like, Sally's flight was still gonna take off while literally touching up, like, Penelope Cruz. And Sally and I raced to the airport at the end of the shoot. One of her other assistants had just. The stress was too much. And he said, like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm only gonna assist you in this lawn. I don't wanna do shoots anymore. He's a very famous hairdresser now. Wow.

[Kirby]

I'm dying to know.

[Location Announcer]

But he sal to me in the car on the way to the airport. Like, I can't believe he just quit like that. And I said, well, I used to be a very nervous flyer. So I took a Xanax and my head. Word vomit. And I just said, sally, you can't talk to people that way. Like, you can't yell at us, especially in front of the photographer. And you should never allow A photographer to yell at your team. It says hair by Sally Hirshberger. Not Sally, Mark. So and so and so and so. And she was like, oh. And I think maybe because I called her out on it, she respected me. But the best part about that story is we get to the airport, and Sally agrees to even sit in coach because she had to get out of Miami. It was the last flight that was gonna get out. She takes me up to the first class, check in. She's like, just come with me. Just come with me. I have status. We're not gonna miss this flight. This is back. We didn't have to check our products, even our scissors. It was all carry on. So Sally. We get our tickets, and Sally says to me, like, I'll hold the plane. Like, you take my kit and my bag and meet me there. So I'm literally running through the Miami airport. I have my kit, her kit, my overnight bag. Her overnight bag. And as I'm running, I trip. And I mean, I fall, like, roll through the airport. Suitcases come over me. It was such a scene. And I stood up, and I'm like, she's gonna leave me here. She's gonna leave me in Miami with her kit. I can't even afford a plane ticket home. What am I gonna do? But I stomped through the airport, and I turned the corner, and there is Sally Hershberger blocking the flight attendants from shutting the doors to the plane.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

Like, this was pre 9 11, so.

[Sarah]

Yeah, that was allowed.

[Location Announcer]

Basically. It was allowed. And Sally sees me. She's like, come on, Come on. And I said to her, I'm like, you held a plane. I cannot believe this.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So you meant a lot to her.

[Location Announcer]

I guess.

[Sarah]

So I was gonna ask, are assistants paid for big magazine, or at that time, were they paid for big magazine shoots like that? Even though Sally the only one getting credited.

[Location Announcer]

Yes.

[Sarah]

By the publication.

[Location Announcer]

By the publication.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

We used to even get. I mean, I've explained it to my assistants now that even, like, movie studios, when I was assisting Sally, if she. Whatever her day rate was, then I would get 10% of that. So if she was making 10,000 a day, they would pay me 1,000.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

It's different.

[Location Announcer]

It was a very different time.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Cause that's not the case now. A lot of people are like, we've talked to people on this podcast who were like, you want to do a big publication? It's like, you're getting exposure. Even, like, people that are not assisting, you know, like, it's a very Weird world.

[Location Announcer]

But I remember, like, Vogue even, because to do the COVID of Vogue is a huge thing. You're not getting paid a huge day rate for that. I think they paid $350 to Sally back then and $150 to the assistant.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

That is crazy. Okay, so let's talk about the social media aspects. Oh, yeah, Obviously, like, you walked into Oribe and then you were like, this is my time, this is me. But now there are glam squads. I mean, I remember reading Allure magazine as a kid and going to the back with the beauty directory and like, that's how I. I'm like, oh, these are the important people. Like, this is who I want to go see if I visit LA or if I visit Dallas or wherever it was. And now it's. That's what it is with social media. It's like, oh, this person has a huge following or like a very engaged TikTok or they work with this celebrity. Would you say the biggest. I mean, obviously the biggest change is social media, but, like, in what aspects would you say?

[Location Announcer]

I do love that. At least it's accepted now, because at the beginning of social media, again, personal publicists just refused to let us, like, take pictures of the clients. You know, we were the publicists who were still trying to keep us a secret, let's put it that way. And then they were. They didn't like that brands were paying hair and makeup brands became really smart and they saw that the best way to, like, you're never gonna afford a celebrity endorsement, but you can get their hairdresser to say that they used it, or the makeup artist to say you used the product. And that came at a really great time. Cause it's when our rates got slashed. And I mean, I literally work Oscars now for maybe a quarter of what it would have been 10 years ago, at least. I mean, if not even a bigger difference, because you could do two or three clients back then. So we, the social media, like, for us to be sponsored by a brand, relied on social media. So there was a. Maybe two, three years where it was like a constant battle about social media. And then I think everyone accepted, like, this is a part of it, but it also. We saw the new generation of actors coming up who were raised on social media themselves. So they didn't care that you were like filming them before hair and makeup. And they had been watching other people do the process so much that they wanted to be in it as well. So that really has changed. And also one good thing that came from this is. We were getting sued by photographers on Instagram for putting up red carpet pictures.

[Kirby]

Oh.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Location Announcer]

It was like, that's a really tricky thing. I had one photographer reach out to me and he's like, that's my work. And I wrote back, that's my work. Like, she wouldn't look that way if she didn't have her hair and makeup done. You wouldn't be taking her picture. And he was trying to sue me for a huge amount of money.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

And I just took the picture that I did use of his and I replaced it with one that I had taken myself. And then I realized, wait, this is so much better. Anyways, I have control of the light, I have control of the body movements, everything else. Especially as a hairstylist, we're always trying to get that three quarter look or like a shot of the back of the head. So, like, now that social media is so accepted and actually expected, like now when we plan out glam time, it's like, okay, we'll do hair and makeup for two hours and then 30 minutes to like make sure we get the right photos.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

You know, and it. I love that the celebs are supportive of that. Like, once they hear the story that we can't use red carpet pictures of them, then they're much more willing to be a part of it. But I mean, I've. My agent used to laugh at me. I like, specialize in clients that don't have social media and that don't do a ton of press.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Location Announcer]

It kind of makes it. When I do get those shots, like, they're pretty exclusive.

[Sarah]

Right. I was actually gonna ask you, do you. If there's someone that is like, I do not want any social of me. Have you noticed that there is an increase in your rate? Like, because you cannot share this, I'm gonna pay you to essentially keep quiet. Or is it. No, it's just this is the rate and we're not gonna. That's crazy. I was also. Do you mind if I ask?

[Location Announcer]

No, no, go ahead.

[Sarah]

I also wanted to ask about the brand thing. I think about this all the time. That. Let's say you have a client, you have a brand deal. Are you comfortable talking to us about how that works? Like getting permission from the client? Because that client may have obligations to competitive brands. Exactly. How do you make sure that you're getting your payment? Has there ever been a moment where a client's like, I'm just going to pay you whatever it is so that you don't have to take Brand deals.

[Location Announcer]

I've never had a client offer that offer money. No, but I have. I believe honesty is the best policy. And I know that I'm against the grain in believing this, but I do think it's better to ask for permission than forgiveness. I mean, I've had a long career so far, and I'm not anywhere near ready to stop. So I don't want to, like, piss people off. So I'd rather be really honest with them. I mean, I've had the relationship with Ashley and Mary Kate that I've had for so, so long. I mean, it's. I mean, they'd be mad if I said how long it's been at this point, but I've been doing the hair since they were 16 years old.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Location Announcer]

So. And for a long time, I would only do them for Met Gala. I never shared that day, like, fashion. Like, CFTA Awards, Met Gala. That's for the Olsens. And when Ashley goes to the Vanity Fair party, like, after the Oscars, she's always texting me, like, whenever you're done, come over. Because she knows Fashion Days. I'm all hers. Like, I don't do any other celebrities. I never want them to be stressed out on that day. But I started getting brand sponsorships. But a big fight was always. But there's two of them. Do you want to sponsor Ashley or Mary Kate? And they're like, oh, no. Like, both, obviously. I'm like, well, then it's double what you would want. And then, to tell you the truth, I'm the only person that's allowed to have a camera in that room. So it's gonna. It's worth a lot more than what you're offering.

[Sarah]

Right. And they're okay with that.

[Location Announcer]

They love that I said that.

[Kirby]

They trust you. And they.

[Location Announcer]

They were more like. Cause they were the first ones that I went to and said, look, I'm being offered this amount of money. It's really good. Wanna split it? And they're like, no, we're not gonna split it. Like, get it.

[Sarah]

They want you to win.

[Location Announcer]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Location Announcer]

Very much.

[Sarah]

That is actually heartwarming to hear because I just. I think about it all the time. Just the logistics of. Especially now, because I have seen situations where a person is posting about something, and you can tell that that celebrity is, like, not really okay with being associated with that brand. There's also something.

[Location Announcer]

You can almost see how uncomfortable they look in the videos. Like, oh, you're holding the product in the shot with me.

[Sarah]

Yeah, like, right next to you. It's very interesting to me.

[Kirby]

But it's, but I do understand that, like, they need to get paid.

[Location Announcer]

Exactly.

[Kirby]

And the client should be happy to support them in that way. Can you share, like one of the first brands that like invested in you, like, offered this sort of deal?

[Location Announcer]

I, I was under contract for a very long time. Like, I had a contract with Matrix for three years.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Location Announcer]

Then I had a six month period where one brand bought my whole award season. Like bought the five big award shows. And then by the end of that year I had started my contract with Dove. And then that lasted for 13 years. So I didn't really look for sponsorships. My agents never had to like really look for those things for me because I had my contract that was talking about a safety net after Dove. Like, then I started like, oh, I'm in the pay for play game now. Like, you know, I can talk about much higher end products and I've been lucky to work with some of the, some great brands out there. I mean, the ones that are my favorite are usually like, because I love their product.

[Sarah]

Got it.

[Location Announcer]

One thing that was so important to me, like, being a spokesperson for as long as I was for Dove, like, I kept it authentic though.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Location Announcer]

I, I would tell, I would tell the brand, like, I don't like this product. It's not doing what it says. It does it, it's not holding up. And they would, they were great with me. They'd be like, then let's focus on the other products in this line. So it, I've, it was like a struggle for me in the beginning. Like, I'm going to line up seven products from one product company and say, I only use those to get the celebrity ready. Like when what I loved about being under contract, I would just pepper in everything that I really, really used. Like, I never. And I think that's what led to my relationship with so many editors, because I don't bullshit.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Can I tell you when I texted Mark, but at the Unilever trip, there was like, you know, the Dove moment, which you had to leave early. It was the Dove hair. And they were like, what do you think of when you think of Dove hair? Literally everyone was like, mark Townsend, Mark Townsend. All these beauty editors. And I was just like, this is so sweet.

[Location Announcer]

Did you say it out loud?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

People said your name out loud?

[Kirby]

Yes. And so I texted you and I was like, oh my God, this is so cute. I mean, I really still, like, maybe not the current dry shampoo, but like, I really associate you with that.

[Location Announcer]

Brand.

[Kirby]

And I use their brand because of you.

[Location Announcer]

I mean, I. I can't tell you how many cases of that Dove Dry shampoo that I went through with Ashley and Mary Kate over the years.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

Like, it. I mean, I fought for that product from the very, very, very beginning. The first time I had the sample of it, I was like, this is a game changer. Like, this is like, I felt like I was holding gold. And there was actually a huge infighting with the brand about how it was going to be marketed. Like, I wanted it as a styling product, they wanted it as a scalp cleanser. And I'm like, you are sitting on the best texturizing spray I have ever put in a client's hair. And you're not gonna say it's a texturizer. And they. Oh, God, I don't wanna get in trouble. But I think they let me push the boundaries as much as legally was allowed.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Location Announcer]

By talking about it that way.

[Sarah]

Lipstick lesbians did talk about this on our episode with them, where there's sometimes a disconnect between how a product comes to market and how it's being messaged. And then you try the product and you're like, it's so much better as this. Why are we trying to make it this other thing?

[Location Announcer]

I was literally texting Mara Rosak about her. I think you and I talked about. I put it in your hair when I did your hair at the salon. She has the air thickening spray.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Location Announcer]

Which is brilliant. But it's the new to hair texturizer. Like, I've replaced salt sprays because of that spray. It gives you the most amazing, like, beachy, lived in texture. I mean, I'm still doing a beach wave. I love it, so. And that product gives it to you without the salt drying out the hair, without it getting crunchy and sticky. And that product is like. It's like a three for one in a way.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Location Announcer]

Because it's a texturizer. It really is like a good refresher at the roots. But again, for me, it's the texturizing of it.

[Sarah]

When Mara has done my hair, she's actually used it as a texturizer. I think she's very flexible with her products. I mean, she is a hairstylist, so she gets it. We love that brand. It's amazing.

[Location Announcer]

I love it. Did you try the new cream?

[Sarah]

I have not tried the new cream yet.

[Location Announcer]

Evergreen, it's called. Right?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And launching that alongside Emma's new haircut, I mean, could not be any better.

[Kirby]

Truly iconic.

[Sarah]

What an amazing launch. All right, Marc award season has come and gone, but we'd be remiss not to ask you about it specifically. Are there any looks that you have done in the OG days currently that are favorites of yours? And then also, what makes a hairstyle suitable for the red carpet versus anything else you work on?

[Location Announcer]

Ooh, well, I'll answer that one first. When you're getting someone ready for a red carpet, they're gonna be seen from every single angle. Whereas when you're doing editorial, all you care about is what the camera sees. So, I mean, I used to do a ton of Cosmo covers. Like the mess that you would see in the back of a model's head compared to all this hair around her face and the wind blowing like. Like those are great photo shoot tricks, but you have to be so aware when you're doing a red carpet, like, you don't even want a bang. That's gonna be too heavy. Is it covering up too much of the eye? Is it gonna cast a shadow? You know, a lot of times tendrils can cause really bad shadows across the face if there's not a strong enough flash. And securing those updos, I mean, that's really like doing a red carpet is really like a 20 hour event now. I mean, there is the red carpet, the award show, then the after parties if you're not going back for touch ups or a change. So also, you've got to really know your products and you've got to know the ones that are going to work and hold for you. Thinking about favorite hairstyles, I mean, my all time favorite was not from an award show. It was actually the premiere of the Good German and I did Cate Blanchett's hair for it. It was one of those crazy ass press days where we did all the morning shows in New York, then flew to la, went straight from the airport to backstage at Jay Leno when he was still on. And then we had seven minutes to get her out of her talk show look into a premiere look. And she was wearing this insane Versace that had its own seat on the plane because it was a very structured neckline. So I immediately tell Kate, like, we're going up, right? And she's like, oh, I don't think she wanted her hair fully up. So she came in and it was like a NASCAR, like pit stop. She stood with her arms out like this. Elizabeth Stewart got her out of her suit and then into this like work of art dress. The makeup artist is in front. I can't get to her at all. So I'm standing on a sofa slightly back into the side. So I just grab her hair, pull it to one side, and I just start pinning and knotting it up. And it became this little side chignon that it happened like within 90 seconds. And it's gotta be my all time favorite hair that I've ever styled because it feels like me wrapped up in a hairdo. Like, it looks effortless. There's like a hundred pins in there, but it looks like she might shake her head and it might all fall out.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Location Announcer]

Which. Which is my favorite thing, my favorite way for updos to look. Cause I also love Dakota Johnson at the Toronto Film Festival. I can't remember what year, but she was in this amazing green gown. And we did like a last minute top knot, which just. And it proves, like, when you have good bangs, it's a whole hairstyle.

[Sarah]

It is.

[Location Announcer]

You can throw your hair into a ponytail, into a top knot, into anything. As long as those bangs are styled, you're good.

[Kirby]

We need to talk about bangs. Like, you know all the answers. What is the secret to having good bangs? Because Kirby and I know there are some bad. We've had some bad bang trims. We've had bad bang days.

[Sarah]

This is me having trimmed my own bangs. I need you to fix my bangs.

[Location Announcer]

Of course I will.

[Sarah]

Like, most face. Like, literally, I'm like, do not look at my bangs.

[Location Announcer]

Like, you gotta get my scissors out right now.

[Sarah]

Literally.

[Location Announcer]

I mean, it's not like a formula. That's the thing. It's. Every face is different. So every and every hair type and texture is different. Like, I have such a. When people ask me specifically about Ashley and Mary Kate, I'm like, they have such different hair. Like, I approach it completely different. I use different. Yes. I use different products for each one a lot of times. So their whole approach to. I mean, Ashley's hair is much curlier than Mary Kate's. And it's much darker, but Mary Kate's is a little more coarse.

[Sarah]

Wow. Okay. Since we're talking about the Olsens. The waves.

[Kirby]

The waves.

[Sarah]

Do you remember? Do you have the first time ever doing that? Yeah. Do you remember the first time ever doing the waves on the Olsens? And how did that come to fruition?

[Location Announcer]

I mean, and what's so funny is how they've changed so much at the whole process of getting ready. It used to be a fight. Who sat in my chair first? You know, they would sit down, soaking wet hair, get that full blowout, then go back with the iron, you know, never open the clamp. Just wrap it around. And then it was about tons of dry shampoo on the roots and then whatever, like salt spray or something to make the ends piecey. But back then it was more like we would use serums and creams to create that, like, piecey. If you go back and look in like the early 2000s, everyone looks like they have greasy hair. Like, we needed to put that frizzies away. John Frieda, like, it was getting a little too heavy on everybody. Like, everyone was afraid of a flyaway. Like, and they were too in the beginning. And then they started getting more into air drying. And then the fight always became about who would have to come to me first because they wanted to air dry as much as possible. I think that all started. There was one year for Met Gala. Oh, Ashley was wearing the most beautiful, like, orange and all these citrus toned vintage Dior gown. And I wouldn't say she was purposefully going against theme, but it was. The theme was very much about, like, I think it was the machine age.

[Sarah]

Or ex machina in the fashion world.

[Location Announcer]

Something like that. So Ashley found this insane gown that was completely handmade. Like, women spent hundreds of hours sewing every jewel onto this gown. So she requested, like, I don't want to use heat. I don't want to use tools. I don't want to. Like, let's keep this going. So I set her hair with clips and let it air dry. And it turned out.

[Sarah]

So to create the wave. Wow.

[Location Announcer]

To pull her curl out just a little bit around the face. And we had a very specific look that we. Jesus was our reference.

[Sarah]

I love a Jesus reference. It's Ashley and Jesus.

[Location Announcer]

So it was very much like a statue of Jesus with the wave right around the face.

[Sarah]

What's your favorite tool to use when it comes to waves in general?

[Location Announcer]

The R Session Pro Tools double barrel iron. And it's impossible to find. I scour ebay.

[Kirby]

They don't make it anymore.

[Location Announcer]

No. This is the best connection ever. Through Ashley and Mary Kate, Their makeup artist, Anna Marie. She was laughing at my iron. It was held together with, like, duct tape. It looked like it was like, I think there were wires exposed. And she was like, it's time to get a new one of those. And I'm like, yeah, but they're impossible to find. I can't find it. She's like, oh, I'll bring you one. I'm like, what? She's like, that's my husband's company. She's married to Frank. Rizieri. Our session tools. It's Kevin Ryan and Frank Rizziri. So I did get a batch of new irons, but they have two double barrel irons. One has one barrel twice the size as the other, and then they have an iron that is the same size barrel. They're the most perfect spaced apart that you can create those, like, you know, everyone's doing flat iron waves and like, like bends instead of perfect waves. And those irons are the best way to achieve it. I mean, I go. I use those irons all the time.

[Kirby]

Someone needs to make them again.

[Location Announcer]

I agree.

[Kirby]

We have too many hot round brushes. We need more.

[Location Announcer]

Amen.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And all of the wave barrels now are like, these three the same size. And they're all the same size. They give you more of a. They're really wide. I'm like, I need a small one.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Sarah]

But I don't want my hair crimped either.

[Location Announcer]

No, exactly. I mean, I have one of those in my kit because sometimes it's good to just touch up the ends with that if you need a little bit of a bend on there. But I like my old school. My old school tools.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Location Announcer]

Although I'm newly into T3.

[Kirby]

Oh, okay.

[Location Announcer]

I'm really late to the game. I mean, I've seen the white irons on, like, so many of my peers, like, use those irons, and I don't know why it took me so long to pick them up and try them out. And they're the easiest things to use in the world.

[Sarah]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Location Announcer]

And they create the perfect, perfect wave.

[Kirby]

We like a T3 curling iron. That's what you use, right?

[Location Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I love my T3.

[Kirby]

Wait, what about hair dryer?

[Location Announcer]

I mean, Harry Josh is still my favorite, but again, like, I'm scouring ebay. My assistant, like, found like three options for me. He's like, shopbop ebay, or like, somewhere else.

[Sarah]

Which one is it in the room store anymore?

[Kirby]

What?

[Location Announcer]

Not anymore.

[Sarah]

Oh, bummer.

[Location Announcer]

I know.

[Kirby]

So you think he's done or phasing it out?

[Location Announcer]

I'm not sure. We've, like, been DMing a little bit. I need to, like, dig in there and find out what happens. You're like, where is it really is? I mean, I gotta say it's the best. But I got into ever since Dyson moved, like, the motor into the hand thing. Like a lot of other brands are doing that. I feel like it's what's her Olivia Garden makes a really good blow dryer that's smaller and it's much quieter. I mean, I still like, the power of, like, my old school. Harry. Josh.

[Kirby]

We don't have that much time with. And we want to answer some, like, listener questions.

[Location Announcer]

I feel like we just got started.

[Kirby]

I know, I know. What is the best way that we can communicate the kind of haircut that we want to our hairstylists? Like, are photos sufficient enough? Or, like, do you need to know? Like, how we usually wear our hair? All that information.

[Location Announcer]

The photos are the perfect kicking off point. It's a great conversation starter because then as a hairstylist, I'm gonna ask the client, like, are you gonna spend time blow drying your bangs every day? They are a little bit of commitment. Like, how much time do you have to spend on your hair? What's your natural texture? Like, are these layers gonna work for it? There's a million questions that will start from. But now what I'm seeing is so many people are bringing in AI photos. And I'm like, it was one thing when they'd be like, I want my hair like Giselle. I'm like, everybody wants hair like Giselle. Giselle wants hair like Giselle when someone's not doing it. And I used to tell clients all the time, like, you know, I did that hair. There's about 16 wefts of hair extensions in there. Like, two wind machines blowing it up. So you're not gonna walk down the street looking like this. But now it's more like, well, you know, this photo is AI generated. So this isn't even, like, real hair. Like, let's find some real pictures of, like, a lob or a bob.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

I can't believe how many people are bringing in, like, AI. I'm like, you know, it says right down there, AI generated. So someone put their dream hair on this.

[Kirby]

Wait, what does it look like usually, like, or who is it?

[Location Announcer]

Well, it's usually way too filtered, you know, Gasified. Yes.

[Kirby]

And it's a lot of hair.

[Location Announcer]

Like, three times as much hair as anyone actually has.

[Sarah]

Like Jessica Simpson on the COVID of her Christmas album. Like, I used to take to my hairstylist. And they're like, okay, first of all, you're gonna burn all your hair off.

[Kirby]

And second of all, that's not her hair.

[Sarah]

That's like 36 wefts of hair.

[Location Announcer]

Exactly. I mean, she had her own line. Her and Ken had a line of hair extensions for a while.

[Sarah]

And I was like, okay, figure it out.

[Location Announcer]

Yeah, I really want to. That's what I want to look like.

[Sarah]

So funny.

[Kirby]

On that note, Are there any hair extensions that you like? Like, favorite?

[Sarah]

Tell me.

[Location Announcer]

Oh, yeah. I mean, great links. Makes amazing ones. I feel. I. The hair shop here in LA is amazing because they have everything you can possibly need. The best quality I've ever. Like, for clients that want, like, a set to take home and, like, they're gonna really take care of them, there's a place called Garland Drake in Costa Mesa. It's the highest quality I've ever worked with.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Location Announcer]

Danilo introduced me to them, like, in the 90s.

[Sarah]

Customize.

[Kirby]

Are those clip ins?

[Location Announcer]

Yeah, clip ins.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Okay. Realistically, how often should we be getting trims if we're trying to grow out our hair?

[Location Announcer]

It really depends on the length and style. Like, if you're maintaining a bob or a lob, a haircut that really relies on the cut as the style, then six to 12 weeks.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Location Announcer]

I mean, I see most of my clients maybe two to three times a year.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Okay.

[Location Announcer]

Dakota gets, like, one good haircut a year. So does Ashley. So does Mary Kate.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

It used to be that I would.

[Kirby]

Come, but not the bangs.

[Location Announcer]

Oh, the bangs. No. I'll get a text. Like, where are you? What side of town are you on?

[Sarah]

I gotta come to you during the parking lot.

[Location Announcer]

Do we meet in West Hollywood? Malibu.

[Kirby]

Cause you said Dakota does her own bangs now.

[Location Announcer]

She. Well, yeah.

[Sarah]

She doesn't cut her own bang.

[Location Announcer]

No, not cut. Oh, yeah, she does.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. We're the same person.

[Location Announcer]

There was an incident, though, not too long ago where I was like, wait.

[Kirby]

What did I do?

[Location Announcer]

How did this get so disconnected? And she's like, well, sometimes you lift them up. So I wanted to do, like, how you do it. I'm like, oh, let's just stick to only hitting those very ends with thinning shears. Yeah.

[Sarah]

She's like, okay, I love that.

[Kirby]

Okay, let's talk about heat protectants. Is it true that, like, whatever you put your hair on, your hair, like a mousse or, you know, these like, like, thickening sprays, like, is that sufficient enough as a heat protectant, or should we really be using something that is labeled heat protectant?

[Location Announcer]

There's a lot of products that do have heat protectant in there, but if you're looking at a volumizer or a mousse, there's gonna be a lot of alcohol in there to make the product dry, so it's not gonna be protecting it. What hairstylists love to say is that you're not seeing your hair smoke. It's the product, and it really is. But if there's a lot of alcohol or silicone in the product, as soon as heat gets to it, it's gonna smoke, which can be really, really scary. But I usually only use volumizers at the root anyways. And you don't really need heat protectant there. I do like it from mid length to ends. And there's so many options now. Like I love Briogeo makes a product called Farewell Frizz that I love to put in hair before blow drying. But I only put it on mid length to end because especially my clients with long hair, that's, that's where the most damage is.

[Sarah]

Totally. All right. Scalp serums or oils, are they a scam?

[Location Announcer]

I have a lot, I think that I was introduced to a company called Dr. Groot recently, a South Korean product that's coming to the US And I love their approach to scalp care. Because you're not gonna have healthy hair without a healthy scalp. You really aren't. And so many times you're really affecting your hair by dealing with your scalp issues. Like if you're using something like head and shoulders every day, you are drying your hair out so much. And I feel like so many in the US of our products that are supposed to be helping your scalp are really just perpetuating the cycle that you have to be on so you'll never stop using it. When dry shampoo got such a backlash. And then that's when we saw the scalp scrubs literally exfoliate your scalp and everyone was peeling off layers and layers of their scalp. You really shouldn't do that ever because then it just causes your scalp to overproduce more oil to make up for what you just stripped. So I do think we need to take care of our scalp just like we do our skin. But I feel like if there's an oil, there has to be alcohol in it to dry, right?

[Sarah]

Because otherwise you're gonna get greasy roots.

[Location Announcer]

Exactly, exactly. But there are some sprays and tonic. Like Olaplex makes a scalp serum though, like I, I don't wanna say they're all bad because I have a client who has really serious scalp issues. Like we have tried everything to keep it from flaking. And the Olaplex serum, she can use it as like a touch up throughout the day to re moisturize without it, like making her roots look oily.

[Sarah]

Oh, interesting.

[Location Announcer]

But that doctor group makes a conditioner called Miracle in Shower treatment that you put directly on your scalp. And as a hairdresser, I've told people for 100 years. Don't ever put conditioner on your scalp. Never, ever, ever. Only from the ears down. So for me to go say the exact opposite, it was hard for me to get used to, and it was hard for clients. But once they did, it's probably the only time I got, like, 100% positive feedback. Like, no one came back and said, like, this doesn't work for me.

[Kirby]

I love that product.

[Location Announcer]

It's insane.

[Kirby]

Something that you told me that I thought was really funny was that you repackage some of, like, your favorite products, like a Dove shampoo, in, like, fancier bottles, and then you give them to your clients, and then they'll text you and be like, oh, my God, I loved that shampoo.

[Location Announcer]

For the longest time, Dove really could have put, like, tested on the Olsens on their bottles if they wanted to, because I really did. They were, like, my biggest product testers because they do their own hair every day, and they air dry. And so, like, actors have people doing their hair every day, so you're not really gonna see if a product is working or not. So I would get the sample bottles and then put them in, like, pretty little glass bottles and send them off, and all I would write is, like, sample shampoo, sample conditioner, and they would give me their honest feedback about it. And then one time, I got a text from Mary Kate's assistant, like, she really needs that shampoo and conditioner. I'm like, it's just Dove Daily moisture shampoo and conditioner. You can get it at any drugstore in New York.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Kirby]

And to this day, you sent me a picture.

[Location Announcer]

She sent me a picture. She sent me a picture recently. She's like, still my fave.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Kirby]

The secret to the Olsen's hair Dove.

[Sarah]

Dove really hit the jackpot with Mark.

[Kirby]

They did.

[Sarah]

I gotta tell you, like, in spades.

[Kirby]

They probably miss you so much.

[Sarah]

They're like, please come back. Okay, we're gonna do a quick, rapid fire.

[Location Announcer]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Well, actually, we may not know the answer to this. Oh, what's the best dry shampoo?

[Location Announcer]

Right now, I'm torn between hours if I want an aerosol and crown affair with that brush. So it's like a blush brush almost. Because even with all the dry shampoos that are coming aerosol, 90% of the time, you want them on the hairline. And you're gonna spray your whole face if you're. Cause you've gotta hold that can back a good, like, 10 inches. So having that brush that you can just brush right on the scalp of the Hairline, like, it's saved so many bang. Like, on long photo shoot days with Dakota, even, like, I can just go in and hit her bangs with that little bit of dry shampoo on the brush, and it doesn't feel powdery or, like, get all over the place.

[Sarah]

I forgot to tell you. But I gave it a second chance.

[Kirby]

And you figured it out. Okay.

[Sarah]

I didn't like it at first because I was like, what am I doing? It feels like I'm, like, brushing through my scalp with this thing. Like, whistle while you work. I don't get it. And then I'm like, no, I need to figure this out, because my biggest pain point with my hair are my bangs, because they do get really oily quickly, which is fine. But I also. I loved that you mentioned that you have to hold the dry shampoo aerosol far enough away. It gets all over your face. And I'm like, I don't want this on my face. I don't want this near my eyes. But I need my hairline. So I will pick it up. Like, pick my bangs up and do, like, kind of a little zhuzh here and then all the way around here. And I feel like. I mean, this is freshly washed hair, but it really has made a difference. And so I kept it and I.

[Kirby]

Started using a zoo even.

[Location Announcer]

Spray your aerosol dry shampoo on a flat brush and then brush through the bangs.

[Sarah]

Smart. We love a tip like that.

[Kirby]

Love that tip. Okay.

[Location Announcer]

And Briogeo just came out with a dry shampoo that's in a. Oh, yeah.

[Sarah]

I think those are gonna be huge puff dry shampoos, like. Cause you can stick them in your purse.

[Kirby]

So travel friendly.

[Location Announcer]

A client just introduced me. I'd never seen it before, but like, a color touch up that's in a. Like, a little puffer like that. So you can just like, hit your right. Right where you need it to cover up some grays.

[Sarah]

Parker Posey.

[Location Announcer]

Parker Posey just introduced me to that.

[Sarah]

Parker Posey, I have to say, like, our. What is. What is the medication she's taking on? Lorazepam. Lorazepam.

[Location Announcer]

Lorazepam.

[Sarah]

Laraza. Pam Queen.

[Location Announcer]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, this is gonna be too hard for you to answer, but we're gonna ask you anyways. What celebrity has the best hair?

[Location Announcer]

Mary Kate Olsen.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Location Announcer]

Actually, Lizzie Olsen, because she has twice as much.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Location Announcer]

Yeah. She has insane hair. I know, right? I know. She needs a hair campaign. That one.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Sarah]

I just want her to be in everything.

[Location Announcer]

Everything.

[Sarah]

Quite frankly. Wandavision. I mean, Literally, she has so many more hair than that. But that show is brilliant. And it, like, I cried every episode. It was so good. She's such an incredible actress.

[Location Announcer]

I loved it.

[Sarah]

Okay, what is one hair, tool or brush you can't live without? I'd actually love to know, since we did kind of COVID tools. What brush can't you look without?

[Location Announcer]

The mix bristle round brush. I've been using those brushes for 30 years. They're my absolute favorite.

[Kirby]

Is there a hairstylist that we should be watching or someone's work where you're, like, really inspired by.

[Location Announcer]

I mean, so many of my peers, but I'm such, like, the proud papa. But come on, Clay. Clayton Hopkins, he's killing the game. Like, I'm so. Like, he absorbed everything. He was a literal sponge.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Location Announcer]

And he, like, came out, I mean, guns blazing. But, I mean. And he has such a, like, a great, positive attitude to be around, and, like. Like, he's a joy.

[Sarah]

In terms of your peers, though, I'm curious, is there anyone that you think people should be following so they learn more about, like, hair history? Do you have anybody that you're like, wow, they're really teaching the basis of, like, hair styling.

[Location Announcer]

I mean, like, even the. My favorite people to follow. Like, I can sit and watch the Toupee Queen for, like, five hours. Like, and I think she's changing, like, hair pieces for men in a huge way. Have you seen her?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay. She's on TikTok, and she will, like, do the whole thing where she has the glue and she's put. No. I recently started following her because.

[Location Announcer]

And they look incredible.

[Sarah]

They look incredible. She just became really popular on reels. I think that's why, like, people are starting to talk about her now. But she was on TikTok. Her reels have been taking off. I just followed her because I'm like, this is an amazing makeover. I would watch a whole show of her doing toupee installs for these men.

[Location Announcer]

I want to go take glasses with her.

[Sarah]

No, you should thank.

[Location Announcer]

I would.

[Sarah]

25 years younger.

[Location Announcer]

How is she not doing half of Hollywood? Like, there's some bad pieces in this town.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God.

[Location Announcer]

Come on.

[Sarah]

Literally, you mean Sarah need to go get dinner? Because I could talk to you about every single hairpiece that I have questions about. And there's actually one actor that I am obsessed with, and I have told his hairstylist, I'm like, his hairpiece looks so good. And she's like, thanks.

[Location Announcer]

Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, because there were some, like, when you're looking at a red carpet, you can see, like, some lace lifting.

[Kirby]

Up or, oh, my God.

[Sarah]

Or like, when literally you're like, that is a different hairline. And so many people are like, it's a hair transplant. I'm like, babes, he did not have time for a hair transplant.

[Location Announcer]

Although, I mean, those flights to Turkey and Romania, they are booked.

[Sarah]

Turkish hairlines.

[Location Announcer]

I mean, have you seen the photos?

[Kirby]

Yes. We had an episode.

[Sarah]

Oh, that's right. One of our friends and did the whole thing.

[Kirby]

Literally. So much hair now.

[Sarah]

So much.

[Kirby]

Ha.

[Sarah]

He looks like Ken. Like, it's crazy how much hair he has.

[Location Announcer]

I need it.

[Sarah]

I'm like, I want it.

[Kirby]

Same. Let's all go to Turkey.

[Sarah]

Wait.

[Kirby]

On that note of, like, red carpet and, like, Hollywood, is there anything that you're seeing that you're like, this needs to be done. I'm done with this.

[Sarah]

Put it to rest.

[Location Announcer]

I mean. Yeah, but I know that the pendulum always swings, you know, and right now we're seeing a whole bunch of just some questionable wigs and some really questionable hair pieces. Like, either. Well, like you said, like, the sudden change, like, when someone changes their hair, like, 10 inches from one appearance to the next, I'm kind of. I love a trend that lasts. So if you debuted this amazing lob haircut, like, rock it. And show us, like, 10 different ways to rock it throughout the award season, like, you come out the next day in a wig to your waist, and then like, two days later, it's like mid length. Like, I'm just. I mean, I know that it's fun to experiment and everything else, but I think, like, especially when you're promoting a movie or something like that, you're telling a story with all of your red carpets and things like that.

[Sarah]

And it's like an era, too. It's like, live through the era of that and then you can change it for the next era.

[Location Announcer]

Exactly.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like Britney Spears, for example. It's like, we know her from her specific hair era when she was a bad girl.

[Sarah]

She had brunette.

[Kirby]

We didn't get to talk about Lee Pierce time with Christina Aguilera. No.

[Location Announcer]

Okay, hold on.

[Sarah]

We are not leaving this place without talking about Britney Spears. I'm sorry, Mark. You know, she's my every single. Like, Clay made me a Britney Spears wig last year.

[Kirby]

I love it because it looks so good.

[Sarah]

And everyone, literally, I get. There's this one girl in my DMs who I like, have not accepted her message. I will show you. I almost blocked Her. Because every message is, go back to blonde. Go back to blonde. Go back to blonde. Go back to blonde.

[Location Announcer]

Really?

[Sarah]

I had. I wrote her. I accepted it, and I was like, do you know you're being rude? Like, my hair is not blonde. This is my natural hair color. Anyway, then I'm like, should I go back to blonde? Because I love Britney, and I have this wig now, and I'm so scared.

[Location Announcer]

No, you've got your wig. Pop your wig on. Pop the wig when you want your blonde.

[Sarah]

Tell us a Britney story.

[Location Announcer]

I. I've only done a couple shoots with her. Like, it wasn't. And. And it was because her Brits shot when she had her babies. So I did, like, the people covers and stuff like that, so I didn't get a whole bunch of the later.

[Sarah]

Behind the scenes of the Britney.

[Kirby]

Okay, but you worked with Christina.

[Location Announcer]

I did. For years.

[Kirby]

For years. Tell us some stories.

[Location Announcer]

She was fun. She was. I mean, talk about, like, taking risks and really wanting to have fun and, like, doing the Voice with her, like, every day. We got to really push ourselves as far as we could. Like, we're putting her on tv, but, like, let's throw a Jennifer Baer priceless, like, headband, and, like, let's put it on sideways today. And, you know, she's brave like that. I think musicians have a very different idea about, like, how they present themselves. Like, they do want to constantly change.

[Sarah]

Their image is way different than an actress, for sure. Was that around, like, the burlesque era?

[Location Announcer]

I was after. I did seasons two and three of the Voice.

[Sarah]

Okay, okay, okay. I was like, was that wagon whale WA2 scene?

[Location Announcer]

I wish. Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah]

Have you ever done Cher?

[Location Announcer]

No.

[Kirby]

Wait, is there a celebrity who, like, you haven't done that you're, like, dying to do?

[Location Announcer]

I mean, there's so many gorgeous ladies that I'd love to get my hands on. But, you know, I had a meeting with my agent, like, 30 years ago, and there was a whole, like, amazing list of names, and I've gotten to work with every single one of them except for one, and it's Faith Hill.

[Sarah]

What?

[Location Announcer]

I have wanted to work with Faith. I mean, I love her music. I watch her shows.

[Kirby]

Like, she's a beautiful woman.

[Location Announcer]

Gorgeous.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God. How do we, like, let's make that happen.

[Location Announcer]

I know.

[Sarah]

Oh, my. I love that. That's such a good answer. Little Texan girl in me is so happy. Yeah, y'all. And if you're watching this, literally, you're about to see these bangs transform the next time you see me? Mark brought his shears. He's about to, like, cut my bangs and fix them. Thank God.

[Kirby]

Mark, where can we find you and follow you?

[Location Announcer]

I'm on Instagram at Mark Townsend 1. Like, I don't do Snapchat or TikTok or any of those things. I'm.

[Kirby]

I'm an old one.

[Sarah]

You're just Mark Townsend.

[Kirby]

Who's Mark Townsend?

[Sarah]

Can we get you.

[Location Announcer]

Look right now.

[Sarah]

Stop.

[Location Announcer]

Actually, look right now.

[Sarah]

Okay, I'm dying. Hold on, let's see.

[Kirby]

Cause I'm like.

[Sarah]

You're like. You're like. I know this person.

[Location Announcer]

Do you read his bio?

[Kirby]

Not a famous hairdresser. I'm Daimler Kirby. Not a famous hairdresser.

[Thrive Market]

Wow.

[Kirby]

Well, then give it up.

[Sarah]

Wow. Mark Townsend. That's not a famous hairdresser. I gotta commend you for holding out like he. Of course, of course. Oh, my gosh.

[Kirby]

Okay. And you, if you are in la, you can book a haircut with hair.

[Location Announcer]

Yes, I cut on Mondays at Mesh Hair Salon.

[Sarah]

Yeah. A working hairstylist. Literally. Treat yourself in the salon.

[Kirby]

Come to la.

[Location Announcer]

I love being in the salon. Like, being around other hairdressers and, like, we're talking about, like, hey, what product are you using over there? Oh, my gosh, that hair looks amazing. And.

[Kirby]

And they're probably learning so much from.

[Location Announcer]

Even watching you, just chatting back and forth. I love it.

[Sarah]

I can come see you.

[Location Announcer]

Come in.

[Sarah]

I will.

[Location Announcer]

I will come in and get the. Come get the full salon treatment. We'll do it like a. We'll make it a. Getting you ready for your podcast or something.

[Kirby]

Yes. I love that.

[Location Announcer]

Love.

[Sarah]

Thank you, Mark.

[Kirby]

Thank you. This was so fun.

[Location Announcer]

Thank you. I know. I want to be a weekly guest now, please.

[Sarah]

Okay, we'll bring you back in one story a week. Yeah, we'll on, like, news with you where we're like, okay, Mark, commentate on the news.

[Location Announcer]

Oh, I would love it.

[Sarah]

That'd be so fun.

[Mark Townsend]

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