Body Odor, Hair Routines and Career Trajectories: We Answer Your Questions

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Episode Summary Episode Title: Body Odor, Hair Routines and Career Trajectories: We Answer Your Questions
Host/Authors: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan
Release Date: May 9, 2025

In this engaging AMA (Ask Me Anything) episode of Gloss Angeles, co-hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan tackle a variety of listener-submitted questions ranging from makeup and skincare routines to career challenges and personal self-care strategies. Despite the absence of their scheduled guest, Kirbie and Sarah seamlessly navigate through each topic, offering expert insights and personal anecdotes that resonate with their audience.

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1. Opening Remarks and AMA Introduction

Due to a last-minute rescheduling of their guest, Kirbie and Sarah transform the episode into an AMA session, addressing questions accumulated from their Slack community. This impromptu format allows for a more intimate and varied discussion with their listeners.

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2. Makeup Routines

a. Sarah’s Eye Makeup Techniques ([02:05] - [06:49])

Sara delves into her personalized eye makeup routine, shaped by her congenital ptosis and previous eye surgery. She explains how these factors limit her eyelid space, necessitating unique techniques to maximize her eye real estate.

Sarah: “I had to learn how to do my eye makeup at a very early age because, as many of you know, I had eye surgery when I was 3 to fix my congenital ptosis and elevate my eyelid position.” ([02:05])

Sara shares her preference for cool-toned eyeshadows from the Viseart Petite Mattes palette, emphasizing the importance of creating depth and the illusion of larger lids. She highlights her trusted makeup artists, Melissa Herkman and Donnie Davey, who understand her specific needs.

Kirby: “But in the way that you do your eye makeup really maximizes your eye real estate.” ([02:49])

b. Learning Makeup Skills ([23:42] - [27:53])

When asked about assisting friends in learning makeup without relying solely on YouTube tutorials, both hosts advocate for hands-on practice and personalized guidance.

Sarah: “Do your makeup at the end of the day before you wash your face and play, and then learn what works for your eye shape.” ([24:55])

They recommend following knowledgeable makeup artists such as Katie Jane Hughes, Alexandra French, and Rose Siard, who offer educational content that explains the purpose behind each product and technique.

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3. Skincare Treatments

a. Cosmelan Peel Discussion ([06:53] - [12:35])

A listener inquiry about the Cosmelan peel, a treatment for stubborn melasma, sparks an in-depth conversation between Kirbie and Sarah. Sarah explains the procedure’s high cost (~$900) and its intensive nature, requiring an eight to nine-hour application period.

Sarah: “It's not for me. I want to take tranexamic acid pills and use the Vagus cream from Dr. Sam to, like, for a gradual improvement instead of like, just doing this.” ([10:21])

They weigh the pros and cons, noting that while effective, the Cosmelan peel may not be accessible or feasible for everyone. Alternatives such as prescription hydroquinone and gradual skincare routines are suggested for those seeking manageable solutions.

b. Alternatives for Melasma ([12:35] - [12:38])

Kirbie and Sarah emphasize the importance of affordable skincare options, encouraging listeners to seek out cost-effective treatments that align with their budgets rather than splurging on high-end products.

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4. Career Trajectories and Self-Care

a. Balancing Careers and Personal Life ([12:56] - [22:46])

The hosts reflect on their ambitious careers and the challenges of maintaining work-life balance. Drawing from their Capricorn astrological sign, they discuss the societal pressures of success and the need to redefine personal worth beyond professional achievements.

Kirby: “I think too, one thing Sarah and I are really specific about on this podcast is like, we sometimes do talk about expensive products, but we also are like, do we love Clay de Peau? Yes. Can we justify a $500 face cream? Not really, no.” ([12:35])

Sarah shares her struggle with the relentless "grind" mentality, highlighting her decision to pivot from traditional publishing roles to more independent content creation avenues like Substack and their podcast.

Sarah: “The grind is not something I am aspiring to. I don't wanna go to as many events. Those things, to me, are not meaningful anymore.” ([14:42])

b. Mental Health and Self-Worth ([14:35] - [16:23])

Kirbie and Sarah discuss the importance of self-care practices, such as prioritizing sleep and setting mental health mantras to combat burnout. Sarah reveals her affirmation sign in her bathroom reminding her of her inherent worth without the need for constant achievement.

Sarah: “I had to literally put up a sign in my bathroom to myself that said, you are worthy of love. You're worthy of happiness, you're worthy of contentment without having to break your back.” ([16:07])

c. Childcare and Support Systems ([21:52] - [22:46])

Balancing motherhood with their professional lives, both hosts express gratitude for their support systems, including nannies and partners, which enable them to pursue their careers while managing family responsibilities.

Sarah: “I couldn't do it without my nannies and Matt, who never, ever protests if I'm like, I gotta go, I gotta go.” ([22:01])

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5. Addressing Body Odor

a. Polite Suggestions for Friends ([28:49] - [30:05])

Kirbie and Sarah tackle the delicate topic of addressing a friend’s body odor post-exercise. They offer tactful strategies such as discreetly offering body deodorant wipes or mints without causing embarrassment.

Kirby: “I am extremely non-confrontational. So this would be really hard for me.” ([29:07])

Sarah: “Do you want a mint? I have to be like, does my breath smell? And they're like, no, but, like, everyone needs a mint.” ([29:35])

b. Deodorant Recommendations ([30:06] - [34:55])

The conversation shifts to effective deodorant options, where both hosts share their personal preferences and challenges with various products. Kirbie mentions her reliance on Mitchum despite its residue, while Sarah discusses her experiences with Dove and other brands.

Kirby: “I have been going between, like, Ban and Mitchum, because Mitchum is the one that made my Mitchell told me to use.” ([30:24])

They also explore international options and innovative products like Everyday Humans’ Sun Glide SPF lip balm, highlighting the importance of finding effective and appealing deodorant solutions.

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6. Hair Routines

a. Personal Hair Care Regimens ([34:55] - [41:12])

Kirbie and Sarah divulge their individualized hair care routines, detailing their washing frequencies, preferred products, and styling habits. Kirbie emphasizes her daily washes due to oily hair, while Sarah maintains a twice-weekly washing schedule complemented by extensions and meticulous styling routines.

Kirbie: “I really wash it like every day. If not, then I'll wash it like every other day.” ([35:24])

Sarah: “I really don't wash my hair all the time. I am pretty consistent with the products I use.” ([36:09])

b. Product Recommendations ([36:09] - [40:31])

The hosts recommend a variety of hair care products, including Virtue, Ouai Detox Shampoo, IGK products, R+Co’s Television Perfect line, and dry shampoos like Living Proof and Batiste. They also discuss the efficacy of products like Briogeo Scalp Revival Charcoal and Tea Tree Detox Spray for scalp health.

Sarah: “It's time for you to start actually acknowledging me in a very serious way. I'm so tired of this.” ([37:27])

c. Styling Tips ([40:31] - [41:12])

Kirbie shares her approach to styling, using products like Rose’s root spray and Big Sexy Hair Volumizing Dry Texture Spray to achieve desired looks without compromising hair health. They emphasize the balance between product usage and maintaining natural hair integrity.

Kirbie: “And then I use the Big Sexy Hair volumizing Dry texture spray. Either that or the Sisley hairspray because it's like, it gives you texture, but it still has some flexibility.” ([40:21])

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7. SPF Lip Care

a. Recommended Products ([41:12] - [42:44])

Addressing a listener’s query about SPF-infused lip products, Kirbie and Sarah recommend Everyday Humans’ Sun Glide SPF lip balm and Bloom Effects’ tinted lip oil with SPF. They discuss the challenge of balancing sun protection with lip aesthetics, noting the prevalent issue of sunscreen tastes overpowering lip products.

Kirby: “It has SPF 30 in it, which is exactly what I look for in a lip balm that has SPF.” ([41:28])

Sarah: “I actually don't use [Bloom Effects]. That's just one of the pro.” ([42:22])

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8. Data in the Beauty Industry

a. Role of Data in Beauty Trends ([42:44] - [47:04])

Responding to Mikayla DeBolt’s question about pivoting a career from data science to beauty, Kirbie and Sarah elaborate on how data-driven insights shape beauty trends and product development. They explain the significance of SEO and consumer data in informing their podcast content, emphasizing that data analytics underpin industry decisions from ingredient popularity to market strategies.

Sarah: “Data is a huge part of this podcast. We are not usually talking about things unless we think people are going to listen to it, which is a part of data in general.” ([43:34])

Kirby: “There is a lot of data backing up why that exists there. So it really is fun to, like, think about it, pick it apart.” ([43:40])

They touch upon historical trends like the CBD boom, illustrating how data forecasts can predict both the rise and fall of certain beauty ingredients based on consumer interest and regulatory landscapes.

Sarah: “But then, you know, regulatory issues are what caused that to come crashing down.” ([45:30])

b. Utilizing Data in Their Podcast ([46:44] - [47:04])

Kirbie and Sarah highlight how their podcast leverages data to understand listener preferences and industry shifts. They utilize data to decide episode topics, guest selections, and to analyze consumer behaviors, ensuring their content remains relevant and impactful.

Sarah: “If you see a specific ingredient that's been touted and it's starting to blow up, it's likely because data analysts saw that that ingredient was starting to have an uptick and starting to take off.” ([45:20])

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Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Kirbie and Sarah demonstrate their deep expertise in beauty journalism while maintaining a relatable and conversational tone. They effectively blend professional knowledge with personal experiences, providing valuable advice and fostering a sense of community among their listeners. This AMA episode not only addresses practical beauty concerns but also delves into the more profound aspects of career fulfillment and self-worth, showcasing the multifaceted nature of their podcast.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements and promotional segments present in the original transcript to focus solely on the core content discussed by Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan.

Transcript

[Kirby]

Take your chance, Discover chance Au splendid. The new fragrance Chanel. As long as I want it so I'll be more comfortable? Cause I take a chance she won't go I won't play among the stars A little more, a little more.

[Sarah]

G L A M Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Hi, Kirby. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles.

[Sarah]

All right, we had a guest for today, but unfortunately, they had to reschedule.

[Kirby]

Dying to find out why and who they had to reschedule us for.

[Sarah]

Agreed. I'm sure it was something that was very important.

[Kirby]

I think it was a very, very. A vvip. A vvvip.

[Sarah]

A vip, if you will.

[Kirby]

But we'll have them on in a couple months.

[Sarah]

Yeah. When we can figure it out. So we decided let's do an ama. We haven't done an. Ask us anything in a minute. You guys put so many questions in the slack.

[Kirby]

We used to call this mailbag for the OGs. Oh, yeah, remember?

[Sarah]

Yeah, whatever. We've evolved.

[Kirby]

Mailbag. AMA. It's not really mail, though. It's slack. Yeah, so.

[Sarah]

So it's a slack bag. A slack bag. A slack bag of goodies. I don't know why I still have. You can keep this, by the way.

[Kirby]

Thank you.

[Sarah]

This is for you.

[Kirby]

Kirby's my drug dealer today.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I gave her some Advil in a tiny little.

[Kirby]

Don't worry, druggie bag is all. It was all good.

[Sarah]

Feeling better?

[Kirby]

Illegal.

[Sarah]

Okay, great. Yeah, Advil. Just Advil. Nothing else. Okay, so let's just go down the line, I guess.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

There were a lot of questions. We might have to refer to the actual slack itself because I think more came in later.

[Kirby]

Okay, cool.

[Sarah]

So this first question is a little specific.

[Kirby]

It's very specific, and I really want to hear your answer for this, but.

[Sarah]

I don't think this is actually a beneficial question for a podcast.

[Kirby]

Okay. Because you need a visual.

[Sarah]

Yes. So I might be making a video. I will link the products in my shop. My. And I will also make a video of this, and I'll give you the general gist of this.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

So the first question is, I would love to know how you do your eye makeup, Kirby. It always looks amazing. Thank you. My eye makeup is very specific to me. I had to learn how to do my eye makeup at a very early age because, as many of you know, I had eye surgery when I was 3 to fix my congenital ptosis and elevate my eyelid position. So I don't necessarily have a hooded lid. I also don't have a regular lid. I don't have a ton of lid space, so I have to make things work for me.

[Kirby]

But in the way that you do your eye makeup really maximizes your eye real estate. Like, you do it in a really creative way that doesn't make it seem like you have, you know, not that much eyelid space.

[Sarah]

Thank you. I am so envious of people that have huge eyelids.

[Kirby]

Me too.

[Sarah]

When I look at them, I'm just like, damn, wish I had all that real estate.

[Kirby]

When I see, like, Stephanie Montez.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

I'm like, oh, my God.

[Sarah]

You are our friend Editor Stephanie Montez.

[Kirby]

It has the beautiful. The most lid space ever. And I'm like, you could paint a painting on that.

[Sarah]

Yeah. There's like, two sections to it. Two sections. You know, for us, it's just this one lid.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it's just one lid.

[Sarah]

So you will never see me with a halo eye.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

It just doesn't work for me. I can't actually do a cut crease. Cause I don't have a crease, so that's never something I'm going to do. The products I use, I actually do my brows before I do my eyes, just so I can, like, shape it. And then I can also determine how heavy I wanna go with my eye makeup. I always start with the viseart petite mattes.

[Kirby]

Cool.

[Sarah]

Original palette.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

I got this at Nigel's. Or actually, was it Nigel's? Maybe it was Friends Beauty in Studio City. Cool tones have really been working for me. I always used to gravitate towards warm, and then I decided I want to try cool. I use like, these taupey browns in the palette, these darker, more muted browns. And then they have kind of like a gray shade that I'll use to kind of blend out along my lash line. My whole thing is that I don't like to take my eye makeup up too high. It has to kind of. It can't really go higher than the mid part of my lid.

[Kirby]

So are you, like, creating depth? Is that your, like.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Your goal?

[Sarah]

Yes. And more. Not even depth.

[Kirby]

It's like an illusion of, like, a fuller lid. Yes.

[Sarah]

And a larger lid. And I always do my eye makeup, so when I go to events. For instance, this weekend, I was in Miami with Bondi Sands, and they had a glam suite, and I went and. And I let them do my complexion, but I do my lids totally. Because I know that I will. Inevitably, they won't understand.

[Kirby]

They'll just redo it. Yeah, that's how I feel. I really only let, like, Kelly Zhang do My eyes. Because otherwise it's just people will put eyeshadow and it'll be, like, up to my eyebrow. And it just makes my eyes look like. I feel like it disappears even more.

[Sarah]

Yes. That's how. So Melissa Herkman is the only makeup artist, I think, that truly understands how to do my eyes as well as Donnie Davey. Donnie.

[Kirby]

Donnie actually. Actually did a great job on my eyes.

[Sarah]

Donny really kills it when it comes to making sure my eyes look bigger. But I think most makeup artists, they go with the natural curve of my lid.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And it's like, fair.

[Sarah]

I mean, that's fair. But I think, like, a true artist understands, like, okay, if I want her eye to appear more wide, I'm not gonna waterline on the bottom or I'm gonna, you know, buff it out so it appears a little bit more open. I guess if you keep the shadow too close to your lash line, it doesn't make your eyes look whiter.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

So. And then I use Inglot's pot liner.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

This is a makeup artist staple, very long lasting. I use that with a brush, a small angled brush to create a wing. So I'll line the top of my eyes, like, right along my lash line, and I bring it a little bit up onto my lid to make the eye appear wider. And then, of course, I do mascara, and I use that with a mascara guard to protect the work that I did because I can't do my mascara and then my eyeshadow, it just the shadow will get on the mascara, and most people don't. But, like, I've had people say, well, if you, you know, don't wanna use the guard, do it this way. But I'm like, I'm not gonna do that.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And then I have been playing with black in my waterline, like, my lower waterline. I think, like, if I'm going out, that's a new look I've been exploring and having fun with.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

But yeah, just for, like, every day, I kind of keep it.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Only to the top. Unless I'm doing mascara on the bottom.

[Kirby]

That makes sense.

[Sarah]

So I'll link all those, and then I'll do an actual tutorial.

[Kirby]

I'll do a tutorial for everyone.

[Sarah]

Yes. So thank you for that.

[Kirby]

Okay, here's another question for you, Kirby. Someone asked about the cosmelan peel.

[Sarah]

Cosmelan.

[Kirby]

Cosmelan peel. They said she heard you talk about it with Susan Yara and would love to hear more about it. As someone with stubborn melasma, I have.

[Sarah]

Never Done the cosmelan myself.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

I have heard people like Susan, who I saw this weekend in Miami.

[Kirby]

Does she have melasma?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

So she does the cosmelan peel a lot.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

And you can do it at home. You can purchase it and do it at home. You also can do it in spa that provides it.

[Kirby]

What's in it?

[Sarah]

I don't know. So the founder.

[Kirby]

The specific kind of acids.

[Sarah]

No, you won't know because they don't share.

[Kirby]

You won't know.

[Sarah]

They don't share that information. If you go to Mezzo Aesthetic, which is the creator of this peel, they don't break down what's actually in this. It's like a proprietary formula that really does work. The before and afters are incredible. Oh, my God.

[Kirby]

The before and afters are amazing.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it really does work, but it's not a pleasant experience. You put it on and you have to leave it on for like eight or nine hours. Ooh, brown.

[Kirby]

Eight or nine hours. So, like, can you sleep in it?

[Sarah]

Yeah, like you're supposed to. Susan, like, Susan had it on all day before I came over.

[Kirby]

I see.

[Sarah]

And I've had Candace Marino, the LA facialist, tell me about this product. I have never used it because this is one of the only brands that doesn't offer comps. And I know some of you are saying, girl, like, what a privilege to be comped things. And yes, it is, but it's also a part of my job. And I have melasma, so I'm willing to try anything. But this is $900. No. If not more. When I first started hearing about this, it was $900. And as a baby beauty editor, I could just simply not afford that. That is not something I was willing to invest in. It wasn't something I could expense for work to try.

[Kirby]

And I'm assuming this is something that's not one and done. Obviously it's like, you have to do this probably.

[Sarah]

It's not gonna take away your pigmentation forever. It's something that you'll need to do maybe once a year.

[Kirby]

Once a year? Okay. Okay.

[Sarah]

Maybe once or twice a year. And it's described as a professional depigmenting method that fully removes spots and their reappearance for a short and long term outcome. I had heard, and I can't remember from who, that the company that makes this product, which I'm guessing is Meso Aesthetic, sold them their brand or like, I don't know what happened, but I was told that this product may not even exist anymore.

[Kirby]

So that's kind of scary.

[Sarah]

Mezzo esthetic. If you go to their website and it says formula evolution. So I don't know if this is a new formula or what, but you have to request information on it. You can't just buy it. So the first phase is this intense depigmentation, and it says that the melanin deposits are removed and the renewal of the first layers of skin are stimulated, improving its appearance and reducing the spots and intensity. So, yes, like, surely there is a variety of acids involved in this. Okay.

[Kirby]

Does Susan say, like, does your skin tingle? Does it, like, smell like anything? Does it feel like anything when you're wearing. You're wearing it?

[Sarah]

So this person said they heard me talk about it with Susan in that. Literally, Susan was wearing it when I went over to her house.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Not that like, we were discussing what it is. Got it. I have never, like, I truly don't know enough about this to even.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

After I heard the price, I was.

[Kirby]

Just like, yeah, it's not for me.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I'm good.

[Kirby]

This doesn't fit my life.

[Sarah]

Yeah, like, I want to get rid of my melasma, but I'd rather take tranexamic acid pills and use the vagus cream from Dr. Sam to, like, for like, a gradual improvement instead of like, just doing this. Maybe one day if I win the lottery, like, I'll have this on standby. Cause Susan essentially did win the lottery when she sold her brand. But you do the phase in office and then you do a phase at home. And the at home phase is where you're still getting rid of the pigmentation. You're regulating it and then controlling it as well. And like, online it says, like, it's essential to perform the treatment at an authorized care center and that you work with a professional first and then you do the upkeep at home. So Susan was doing the upkeep at home because she had gotten it in some type of, you know, spa or whatever. But yeah, I mean, a lot of it has a patent on it. It's this very innovative formula. Lots of people love this stuff. I just personally have never tried it. But if you do have melasma, I mean, it's. It's truly one of the only. When people ask me, like, what should I be doing for my melasma? I'm like, if you can get a hydroquinone prescription, that's probably the best option. Or alternatively, like, cosmelan. But it is a lot of effort because it. You have to put it on Your face and like, leave it there for a while.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And it's a whole ordeal.

[Kirby]

I'm curious how Cosmelan works for people with like, deeper skin tones.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Honestly, I have not looked into it as much as, you know, maybe somebody else has because I'm like, the price is really. It's priced me out. I just am not fully interested in trying it. And I also think too, one thing Sarah and I are really specific about on this podcast is like, we sometimes do talk about expensive products, but we also are like, do we love Clay de Peau? Yes. Can we justify a $500 face cream? Not really, no. Like, unless truly you are in the 1% tax bracket, by all means. But we try to tell you the products we think you would actually truly benefit from and need. And it's like, I think you can get, even though this is great, you can get other at home options that like, are in your price definitely, but your budget at least.

[Kirby]

Wow. I'm very curious about this.

[Sarah]

I would love, maybe one day I'll splurge and just be like, just to.

[Kirby]

See, you know, maybe someone we know offers it at their spa.

[Sarah]

Well, they do, they do. But like, it's one of those things that it's so expensive they will not comp it. They won't comp it.

[Kirby]

All right, wish us luck, everyone. Wish us lottery luck.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Yeah, lottery luck. Here we go. Someone says, just checking in any exciting career updates. This actually made me laugh. I was like, what? Or things we can look forward to? What would. Okay, I want your interpretation of this. What are things you do for self care in your busy lives? Thanks for all your hard work. Okay, that's very sweet. It's very sweet. But I'm also like, are y' all that interested?

[Kirby]

I. Maybe I followed up with the second one because it was. I felt like it was very related. This person also asked, like, how our structure of our day looks and that we both seem incredibly busy. And then someone asked about how I manage my children because they are a working mother of three. How do you manage your children? That's a lot. Okay, let's start with any exciting career update. You know what's actually pretty funny is, you know, I loosely follow horoscopes and Refinery posted one yesterday and I was like, let's just see. Do I relate? Okay, I'm going to read. Since as everyone knows, Kirby and I are both Capricorns, your relationship to money, security and self worth is about to get a major energetic upgrade on May 4, Pluto retrograde in Aquarius begins its descent into your sector finances and values, asking you to get radically honest. Where have you been outsourcing your sense of stability? Where are you ready to claim deeper ownership over your worth? This isn't about hustling harder. It's about recalibrating your relationship to abundance itself. This retrograde will have you evaluating new ways to make money, perhaps tied to previous projects, people or passion projects. Time to brainstorm.

[Sarah]

Okay. I have also seen a lot of that for us specifically, which is. Your idea of success is changing.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And I'm like, what does that even mean? I don't know anything other than the success that I have been striving for my whole life. But that's been. I have been kind of crashing out on the idea of, I don't wanna do this anymore. I actually don't wanna do this anymore. No, not this podcast, but, no.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I don't know.

[Kirby]

The grind. The grind.

[Sarah]

The grind is not something I am aspiring to. I don't wanna go to as many events. Those things, to me are not meaningful anymore. But I don't think anymore. I'm like, I. I need to play nice. I need to, like, be amenable to the people. I need to whatever. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just kind of.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I just think, like, for me, too, I've come to a place where I am so busy that I really feel like, like, where do I actually want to invest my energy in? And because we can only go to, like, so many events and lunches and meetings with all these people, like, we really can't. It's, like, impossible for us to even be fully present every time, you know? So it's like, what is, like, this a question of, like, abundance? I'm like, yeah. Like, I don't. I really need to, like, take a step back and be like, this is where I want to put my energy. But as you know, it is very challenging as Capricorns, because then another thing that Refinery posted was like your mental health mantra, capricorn, I am worthy even when I'm not achieving. No.

[Sarah]

I had to literally put up a sign in my bathroom to myself that said, you are worthy of love. You're worthy of happiness, you're worthy of contentment without having to break your back.

[Kirby]

Yes. Yes. It's really. I mean, I know this is obviously isn't just a Capricorn thing. Like, I think it's just very common for us women these days.

[Sarah]

And millennials.

[Kirby]

And millennials. Like, we are just really ambitious and not to say that other generations aren't, obviously, but I think I just look at all the women in my life and no one just has, like, one job anymore. No.

[Sarah]

Nobody has one job. I truly think about this a lot. My friends are doing so many things.

[Kirby]

Like, I don't even want to disclose the amount of side hustles that we all have, because it's like, it's offensive. Like, I'm like, it's offensive to the other jobs that we have because it's like, how do you even have time to be working on the other things? So all that to say exciting career upd. I.

[Sarah]

What's your. Do you have an exciting career update?

[Kirby]

No, I think. Okay. All I'll say is that I really feel like I am trying to reevaluate and look at my life and be like, what is it that I really am passionate about and most passionate about? One of those being this. This podcast and Los Angeles in general. And it's just. It's also one of those things where it's like, in order for one to succeed, you sort of have to step back from something else. You cannot do all of it. So I'm in that place right now because it's crazy. Yeah. What do I do for self care? Literally, my priority is getting sleep. That's my priority. Cause otherwise, I just fully cannot function. I feel very lucky because I think you too, Kirby. We talk to a lot of people who are in this economy. They've lost jobs, They've lost. They can't get hired. You know, things are constantly changing. AI is taking over, you know, certain roles. So, like, I feel very privileged that, like, every day I wake up and I get to do what I want to do. But at the same time, I'm like, there's a lot to do. I'm tired. But it is really like, it. Like, we got to go to Amsterdam for our work, you know?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And record in, like, the most beautiful tulip field. Like that when you take a step back, you're like, okay, that's fucking incredible.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And I think, too, even leaving Popsugar, you might think that was like, the huge breakaway in my career of saying, I don't want to be associated with a publisher. I don't need to be associated with an entity.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

But I still feel that I get lumped in with, like, oh, she writes for this publication. She writes for this publication. She does this. And I'm like, I actually don't write for publications much anymore.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Because I would rather put it on my own. Substack and benefit there, where it's literally just me and I'm not being tied to something else, where I have more freedom to have a point of view versus having to align with the POV of a publisher. But also, I am also very much tied to this podcast, too. And I've been kind of like, okay, but I am an individual, so how do I separate myself? Where this is what the podcast does, and then this is what Kirby does.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

That's been like, a big conversation in my head.

[Kirby]

Yeah. It's just. It's hard, I think, like, navigating our industry because so much of how people see us is tied to each other. Well, each other. But then also, like, what publication are you writing it for?

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

You know, or, like, for me, it's like, obviously Refinery, which is fine, because that's my job, but then I am a person also outside of all of that. And then you think, if I were to just walk away from everything, would anyone still care?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I don't know.

[Sarah]

I think they would.

[Kirby]

I hope so. But you don't know. I mean, I know you had that feeling, too, after leaving Popsugar. And obviously, people still, you know, identify you as. I think people look at you as your own person, like, 100%. I don't think that you need. I don't think.

[Sarah]

But in the context of my job, I think that right now it's like, okay, we have Kirby an example for the listeners. When we went to Amsterdam, we were grouped in with the editors, and I don't think that we should have been grouped otherwise, because I wouldn't consider us influencers like some of the people there.

[Kirby]

But you are.

[Sarah]

I don't write for a publication.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sarah]

Like, this is a podcast.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And, like, granted, there are editorial components to this podcast, but we create content. We are not. We are content creators here.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

We're not editors. We're not writing. We're not publishing this anywhere except for YouTube and Instagram and TikTok. Like, we are very much publishing on the same platforms as these creators do.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And, I mean, that's how I see.

[Sarah]

You 100%, and that's how I see myself. But it is very interesting when this has changed a lot over the last, I would say, six months. But at the beginning and even early last year, it was like, we want to invite you to cover this thing. Who are you going to write it for? I'm like, I'm not writing it for anyone. Maybe I'll film it for a publication to put on Their socials.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Sarah]

But I've also never been a writing first person. Even at Popsugar, my job was video. Totally. And then I would supplement it by publishing it. So I think that maybe both of us are in this period of time where we're trying to figure out, like, okay, how does this, like, also, like, how do we take the podcast to the next level? Like, there are elements of Los Angeles Confidential where I'm like, this would be so much easier if we just had this.

[Kirby]

Yep.

[Sarah]

Or we could just make this right. Or, like, it would be awesome if we could have our own this so we could do this.

[Kirby]

Yep. So, yeah, we're figuring it out.

[Sarah]

I don't think that there's any exciting career updates. We're still just grinding. We're still just doing things.

[Kirby]

We're trying to perfect the thing that we are doing currently.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

So that's. Thank you for asking. We do appreciate everyone recognizing that we do work hard. Our structure day to day is totally different. Like, it really looks so different. And then in terms of, like, managing my kids, I couldn't do it without my nannies and Matt, who, like, never, ever protests if I'm like, I gotta go, I gotta go. I gotta do this dinner. I gotta go for a few days to this trip. So it's, like, very. I mean, I always say it, but it's like, it takes a village. And I feel very, very lucky that I have that. Also very supportive. Like, Kirby is incredibly supportive. I couldn't do it without you, But I'm. Yeah. I mean, I miss. Sometimes I literally am like, should I just, like, stay at home? I want to stay at home sometimes.

[Sarah]

Yeah, same.

[Kirby]

Let's be stay at home Moms and dog moms.

[Sarah]

Can someone just take care of me?

[Kirby]

Can we just be.

[Sarah]

I want to be taken care of.

[Kirby]

Passenger princess.

[Sarah]

Princess. All vibes, no brain cells.

[Kirby]

We say that, but, like, I truly.

[Sarah]

No, no. I actually want that.

[Kirby]

You have to get a lobotomy. I want to say that your brain cells.

[Sarah]

Someone just hold me where I need to go. I'm tired. I am tired. I was talking to a girlfriend, and she was on this dating app, and I was like, what is your bio? And it just said, you're in charge. And I said, first of all, that's hot. Second of all, maybe I should take that.

[Kirby]

You should take that too.

[Sarah]

Maybe that will help me in my life. This question says, I am in a beauty group from Facebook, and so often people ask how to learn to do their makeup. I guess not everyone wants to chain watch videos on YouTube, like me. What tips do you have? I don't know how to answer this question. How else are you supposed to learn at this point?

[Kirby]

No, I think that obviously YouTube social media is incredibly helpful, especially now where literally you can find someone that looks like you. Like, there's probably like 20 creators that look similar enough to you in terms of, like, eye shape or face shape or skin color that you can learn a few things from. I think it's still really helpful to, like, sit in someone's chair. And that doesn't mean, like, you have to sit in, like, a celebrity makeup artist chair, which, like, we, you know, have the privilege of doing. But, like, even going to, like, your favorite beauty counter, I think they still offer those, like Mac Chanel at Nordstrom. Like, you can sit and, like, those people would love to help you. Like, that's like. Or Sephora. Even going into Sephora, I feel like it's just. It's another thing to be able to, like, see in person versus just like, learning off the screen.

[Sarah]

Yeah. At the same time, though, I think one of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten from someone was from Wendy Zomner, and she just said, do your makeup at the end of the day before you wash your face and play, and then learn what works for your eye shape. Learn what blush placement works. Learn what color of blush.

[Kirby]

You really need to practice.

[Sarah]

You need to practice. You can't be doing your makeup in your car, looking in your rearview mirror if you're trying to learn how to do your makeup, like, just point blank, period. And I know that that's like, a thing people do because they don't have time. But everyone, if you're listening to this podcast, you probably listen, or you probably wash your face at night, take one thing and play with it and see how it works for your face shape and go from there. I would follow makeup artists because even though a makeup artist may not look like you, they work. Their entire job is learning how to work on a variety of faces. So the people that I often am saving videos of are Katie Jane Hughes. She's really great with complexion and teaching you. Like, this is how you don't crease under the eye. This is how you use less makeup to look more even toned.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Alexandra French, I think, does amazing eye makeup tutorials if you're interested in those. There's a few others that I often save. Oh, yeah, Rose Siard. Yeah, Rose Siard, an incredible makeup artist. She really teaches you educational components of makeup and, like, why you Use certain things versus why you don't use them or the purpose of certain products, which I think is extremely helpful. It's like, if you're gonna study for a test, you know, and you. This is, like, your makeup that you're every day, and you want it to look good on you, you should study.

[Kirby]

I think, like, what you just said about purpose is really important because so many of us are like, oh, I saw them put this on. But then you're like, I don't know why, but you have to like. Or when you understand, then you're like, oh, I get it. Like, I should be putting, like, okay. Kellyanne is also great. I know she has her own, like, master classes and stuff, but it's like, this is where you should be contouring, not this. Here's why. And you're like, oh, I get it. That's why. Sometimes, like, it doesn't look right, or it looks kind of, like, muddy on my face. So I feel like the why is very important.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

I do think it would be really fun if you have, like, friends to, like, bring your makeup over and, like, have a makeup party, and everyone just, like, play, do their makeup. Play, do each other's makeup. Because it is. At the end of the day, you, like, you said, you really have to try it in order to see whether you like it or not. Right.

[Sarah]

I have been begging Melissa Herkman to just. I'm like, I will literally pay you come over.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Help me curate my brushes. I have too many. I know how to use most of them, but, like, tell me what I can get rid of.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And then show me what products you use on me to make me look the way you do when you do my makeup.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I really. She does not have any time in her life. That woman is with embarrassment. You think we're. Yeah. You think we're busy. This woman, I'm like, I can barely get her on the phone.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

But I think that if, you know, even if you have a friend that you think does their makeup incredibly.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I think they'd be honored if you were like, hey, I think your makeup is always so beautiful.

[Kirby]

Like, totally.

[Sarah]

Do you want to come over and we. You chat about what you think would work for me.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And also, like, not just having them do the makeup on you, obviously. Like, you need to be doing it on yourself.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Because you need to actually. Like, that's the same with, like, hair. Like. Like, learning how to actually use a curling iron or, you know, a round brush, Things like that. Like, you have to actively do it yourself, otherwise you're not gonna know. But that's a really good question. Especially, I feel like sometimes people are so set with the way that they are doing their makeup and the products that they use, and then, you know, trends happen, change, but also your face changes. So it's, like, good to revisit and see.

[Sarah]

I do my makeup differently based off of what phase I am in during my menstrual cycle.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I mean, your skin texture changes.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Sarah]

The oiliness of your skin changes.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Your eyes can get a little heavier because you're a little bloated because you're retaining more water.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Even like, time of day.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Like, not just like a day or night look, but in terms of, like, how your skin and face looks at the end of the day versus the morning.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

So just play around. But that's a really fun question.

[Sarah]

Okay, let's quickly do this one.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Because I think the answer is very simple.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

What's the most polite way to tell a bestie? She or he to try a body spritz or something that will help them so they don't give off bad BO post Pilates. And if there's a product out there, what's the best one?

[Kirby]

Okay. I am extremely non confrontational.

[Sarah]

I would never tell.

[Kirby]

So this would be really hard for me.

[Sarah]

I would never be able to.

[Kirby]

What I might do is be like, I just got these really incredible body wipes. It smells amazing. Try one. I'm gonna try one with you.

[Sarah]

I had the same idea where it's like after Pilates, you go to the restroom area, you pull out the body deodorant wipes, you start wiping, and you literally hand her one. Yeah.

[Kirby]

Do you want. They're not gonna say, no.

[Sarah]

You don't say, do you want one. You just hand it and be like, here, try this.

[Kirby]

And then.

[Sarah]

And then they don't have a choice. They're like, oh, okay, I have to start doing this.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Sarah]

It's kind of like when someone. One of the most effective things I think a friend has done in the past for me has just been like, mint? Like, do you want a mint?

[Kirby]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah]

And it's just like, oh, I should take this.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Sarah]

And then I'm like, does my breast smell? And they're like, no, but, like, everyone needs a mint. I'm like, okay. But then it's like, but did my breath smell?

[Kirby]

And that's why.

[Sarah]

You know what I mean?

[Kirby]

Like, it is my worst fear in life to smell.

[Sarah]

I think about this all the time.

[Kirby]

Whether it's my breath or, like, my bo. So, like, you need to tell me.

[Sarah]

Also, can someone please tell us the best deodorant? I am on a mission to figure out.

[Kirby]

I know.

[Sarah]

And I know you can't do aluminum free. Do not even bring it up.

[Kirby]

I know people try, and I, like, am so happy that it works for all of you, but it truly. It's not for me.

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

And I've accepted that, and that's okay with me. But same. I am like. So I have been going between, like, Ban and Mitchum, because Mitchum is the one that made by Mitchell told me to use.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

And it works, but I just feel like it sometimes leaves this layer. And then I really have to use, like, I have to use, like, dial antibacterial soap to get it off my underarms at the end of the night. Cause that, like, some of these body washes, too, that we have are like. It's not doing it.

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

It's not removing that.

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

So the Mitchum has been working for me, but I'm in the market.

[Sarah]

I just feel like the deodorants that are also antiperspirants, the smell mixes with the fragrance. And then I'm just like, now I smell, like, fragrant bo and I don't want that. Like, I need something that's, like, going to nip it in the bud.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And also it's like, I know deodorant is deodorant, but, like, you could make it sexier. We can make a sexy antiperspirant, right?

[Sarah]

Yeah. We need to do something. There was something. I can't even remember. It was a rollerball that I would put on my underarms when I was a child. And it really did work. It, like, like, banished anything.

[Kirby]

Was it Ban? Because Ban is rollerball is. I don't. But there's other rollerballs.

[Sarah]

It was something else. It was, like, the most generic ass product. You could get it at cvs. You would rub it on your underarms in the roller ball, and truly, it would just snatch up all the little bacteria.

[Kirby]

I was a Dove girl for a really long time.

[Sarah]

I still use Dove. Yes.

[Kirby]

But for some reason, it, like, doesn't work on me anymore.

[Sarah]

They've sneakily started making more 0% aluminum. And then I get it.

[Kirby]

I'm like, oh, totally. Okay. I think I mentioned this on the pod many years ago, but my mom exclusively buys her deodorant from, like, Asia or the Philippines.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

So there's like, a Nivea One, and it's a whitening deodorant. And of course, they don't sell the whitening ones here in the States, but I think that they also sell it in Europe. It's not. It's not. It doesn't say whitening on it. It's a specific one. But it smells amazing and it works. But, like, I forgot to get it when I was in Europe, but that one works. We'll have to get some for us.

[Sarah]

Okay. I'll have to stock up on that. Also, I do use glycolic acid from time to time, and there's these wipes that are meant for body odor that you can get at the store. Like, I got it at CVS this weekend, and it has pine bark extract or, like, willow bark extract, which is good for acne or whatever, but it basically helps get rid of bacteria that causes, like, body odor. They were fine. Like, it was a good little precursor to putting on my deodorant, but it didn't really change that much.

[Kirby]

Totally. Yeah.

[Sarah]

So I'm just like, someone, please, like. Like, have you struggled with this? And if so.

[Kirby]

And we don't have, like, we're not like, hyperhidrosis. It's not like, I'm not overly sweaty. I'm not overly sweaty.

[Sarah]

It's not a hybrid hydrosis.

[Kirby]

It's a very.

[Sarah]

Because Botox would not be helpful.

[Kirby]

Yeah, no, it wouldn't. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Like, it's the common ground Sarah and I have is that we're Capricorns and we both are like, do we smell, like, every day? I'm literally like, does my breast smell? Does my underarm smell? I smell. Did you ever.

[Kirby]

Did you ever try that Nomobo thing that I sent you? Or that. Did they not send it to you that I talked about? Like, I did an intro call with him, and it was called, like, no more body odor.

[Sarah]

And it was talking about this. I haven't tried it.

[Kirby]

We need to get. We both need to get back on it because it was a really good. Rinse it, like, specifically targeted, like, the stinky bacteria, but kept the other bacteria. We need to try it again. But if.

[Sarah]

Is that going to be our product we launch? It's going to be a deodorant. It's going to be a deodorant that's.

[Kirby]

A really chic aluminum.

[Sarah]

Why can't we get a deodorant? Well, because. Okay, hold on. It's kind of like, deodorant has to be affordable and accessible because it's like, what's the Point. Like nobody wants to buy a $40 deodorant.

[Kirby]

No, but I'm not saying that. But it could. I'm not saying it doesn't. It has to be like luxury premium. Like it just could be cuter. Like all of them, all of my deodorants are really ugly.

[Sarah]

Yeah, they, they all like I was, I'm going through all the deodorants I have because I've tried so many. They're all so fug.

[Kirby]

They're fug.

[Sarah]

And like people don't care if they're fug.

[Kirby]

But the aluminum free ones are cute. Like maybe that's the name. They're called Glossier, you know, Fug deodorant.

[Sarah]

Fug deodorant for your fuggin ugly bacteria. Okay, let's keep going. Very curious about hair routines. Of course hair care is so deeply personal. But curious about your experiences with what works doesn't in terms of how often you wash, what products you're using between wash days, how often you're heat styling. Any tips thoughts on using too much product? Would love to hear.

[Kirby]

I feel like I'm constantly trying new products all the time because I. My hair type is just. It's pretty easy. It's like fine, normal, if you want to call it normal. It does get oily though. So I really wash it like especially now because I'm like running so much, I have to wash it like every day. If not, then I'll wash it like every other day. But now I'm also trained that if I do feel like I'm feeling the buildup, then I need to wash my hair.

[Sarah]

Yeah, that's me today. I like forgot to wear a hat. But it looks how I feel like I can feel the buildup starting from the dry shampoo. Yeah, I don't wash my hair often. Twice a week. I don't like having to wash my hair. I have a hair extension so it's like a towel. And typically I shower at night and then it's a whole process of like blowing out your hair and all that stuff. So I'm not washing my hair all the time. I am pretty consistent with the products I use. I don't actually try a ton of hair care products. I love virtue, I love Ouai Detox shampoo. I really love IGK products and R Co. R Co makes this television perfect line which I'm really obsessed with.

[Kirby]

And always AR&CO always smells. Really? Really? Yes.

[Sarah]

They also make styling products called R Co Blue which is like their more sustainable line that's really cute. And then from time to time, I throw in a K18 treatment.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I will sometimes use the Rosemary Necessaire products, but like, truly, I probably wash my hair. I'm not kidding you, ten times a month if that. I'm not washing my hair all the time. So a lot of my routine involves a dry shampoo of some sort of.

[Kirby]

Which one I'm using right now.

[Sarah]

So I really like Living Proof. For me, that's the product that works the best in terms of oil absorption. But it does leave a white cast if you use too much. So you have to be super careful with it. I've been using the Batiste brunette option.

[Kirby]

Did you try the, like, sweat activated one?

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

Okay. They just came out with one. I don't really know if that's really working, but I like it so far.

[Sarah]

I bought a travel size of the brunette version. I also use triple sec from drybar.

[Kirby]

Drybar.

[Sarah]

It's a dry shampoo texturizer hairspray mix. So sometimes it can make my hair stiff if I use too much. But I just love the smell of it. So I use it all the time. And then I always spray on the color. Wow. Color wow.

[Kirby]

Dream coat.

[Sarah]

Yes. Color wow. It's time for you to start actually acknowledging me in a very serious way. I'm so tired of this. I. As a beauty person who gets sent so much product, I buy this product.

[Kirby]

Like, did you not just get sent that? Like, no, no. Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah]

Y' all are dead to me.

[Kirby]

Three dream coats.

[Sarah]

Y' all are dead to me. Actually dead. Dead on arrival. Dead in my heart, Dead in my mind. I buy this product. I really.

[Kirby]

I know it's crazy.

[Sarah]

Did I do something to upset you? I truly don't know what it is, but, like, I don't understand how I'm not on a PR list for a brand that I talk about. You guys should go through our shop by and see how many color Wild Dream Coat has been featured because it's me talking about it. I buy the miniature sizes. It's with me at all times. I spray it every single day. I made a video talking about how you have to overly spray it on your hair. You gotta overspray. So in terms of like, you know how often you're heat styling? Probably like once or twice a week. My hair knows how to hold a curl. I know that's not normal, but it does. So I'm not constantly using heat styling products unless it's to help zhuzh my bangs and then using too much Product. I actually think people don't use enough product and that's why they're not able to get the look they want.

[Kirby]

Exactly. I think that people are not using enough product, but I also think people are not washing their hair enough. Like, use all the product. But then if your hair is starting to feel gross, don't just reapply dry shampoo. Like, if you have the. I get it. Like, it is so annoying to have to do your hair. Especially if you're washing your hair at night. You're an exception because you know what you're doing. But, like, you know, if, like, if it's feeling gross. Yeah, it's time to just wash your hair. It's time to wash your hair. Speaking of, I love the Briogeo Scalp Revival Charcoal and Tea Tree buildup Detox spray. Have you used that?

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

So you have to remember to use it before you step into the shower. But this is, like, what I'll use if I've gone like, a couple days between washing and I feel like I have buildup. You just spray it on your scalp and, like, massage it in. I really, really like that product. I've been using the Lola V shampoo, which I really like.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

I love that. I also have been using.

[Sarah]

I like their detangler.

[Kirby]

Their products are great. Yeah, the Shaws. Have you heard of Shaws and Kicks?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Okay. So I use their hydrating turmeric shampoo and also their conditioner. So it's like. Is it technically a solid? Okay. It's a water activated shampoo. It comes in, like, a jar. It's more concentrated, so you just have to use a little bit. I love it. It smells amaz. And then in terms of, like, masks and stuff, I don't really use that many unless, like, Kirby and I get to go to all these, like, different hair treatments. So that's when I do, like, my deep conditioning or my scalp analyses. But for styling, I use rose.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Especially the pink one for the root spray.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

And then I like to use the dream coat, but Gregory Russell told me not to use too much of it for my hair type.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

And then I use the Big Sexy Hair volumizing Dry texture spray. Either that or the Sisley hairspray because it's like, it gives you texture, but it still has some flexibility. So your hair is not super crunchy. And then I think that's in the crown affair for my bangs. And I'll go between the K18 dry shampoo and I've been using the Lorapulco Dry shampoo.

[Sarah]

Oh, I need to try Lorapulco's stuff. K18. Although I love that product, if you don't use it regularly, it gets buildup in the nozzle.

[Kirby]

Oh, I know.

[Sarah]

And it's really, really hard to.

[Kirby]

You have to like run underwater.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And I tried that and it didn't work. So just know that, like, make sure that you're using it regularly. Pumping it regularly.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Caroline Duncan says, I would love to know what your recs are for an SPF lip. I hate the taste of sunscreen lips, but I'd like to have sunscreen on them when I'm outside a lot during the spring, summer. Any advice is appreciated. And several people also liked that particular question.

[Kirby]

Everyday Humans just came out with one. They just sent it to me. It's the Sun Glide SPF sunscreen lip Balm. It's 10 bucks. It is basic lip balm, but it has SPF 30 in it, which is exactly what I look for in a lip balm that has SPF in it because I want to be able to put my lipstick on top. So it's just basically sunscreen for your lips and that's it. Bloom Effects makes their beautiful tinted lip oil that has an SPF in it. So if you're looking for like a two in one, that's a great one. What do you like to use?

[Sarah]

I don't, I don't use.

[Kirby]

Because you're not like outside in the. At the beach or anything like that. For me, it's like if I'm running outside, like I need to put something. So I'll use the Everyday Humans one. Are there other ones?

[Sarah]

There's a lot out there, but I also know people are like, it just smells like and tastes like sunscreen.

[Kirby]

So yeah, I would definitely check that one out. Oh, do you like the Ultra Violette one?

[Sarah]

I actually don't.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

That's just one of the pro. An SPF lip product is one I have really just not gravitated towards because of how they taste. I cannot get one to not taste like it a sunscreen, in my opinion.

[Kirby]

That's why I feel like it really needs to be two separate things. Like, you really just need the lip balm that has SPF in it and then put your lipstick on top. It is a. It's a hard. It's a hard formula thing.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay, this is the last question which I really like. This is from Mikayla DeBolt. She says I'm a data science nerd and currently work in the government sector. I've always been curious about pivoting my career towards data and the beauty industry. I'd love to hear a discussion from Kirby and Sarah on how data is used in the beauty industry to inform decisions or anything else. I'd also be curious if using data is a part of the podcast in general. Thank you so much, Mikayla. I think you may be a new listener because we actually have a segment that we have not done in a long time. So I do not blame you for not knowing this, but it was called Data Girl. Yeah. And we would often talk about the data that we get and we'd quiz each other on what we thought. Data is a huge part of this podcast. We are not usually talking about things unless we think people are going to listen to it, which is a part of data in general, which is also.

[Kirby]

Our background in journalism. It always has to be rooted in truth and facts and data.

[Sarah]

Yes. And also we know that SEO is really important. So we're also looking to see how people are looking up certain terms and what terms are performing. It helps inform everything from how we title our episodes to why we decide to cover something to why we decide to have a person on the podcast.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I think in terms of industry, like, I mean, it's run by the data. It's run by the data based on. There are companies that just exist to collect data for different category. Categories of beauty. You know, Kirby and I get interviewed all the time as part of the data collection as experts, which I think is. It's just a really fun part of the business. All the insights that you get from that and like everything on the shelf that you see, whether it's digital or in person, there is a lot of data backing up why that exists there. So it really is fun to, like, think about it, pick it apart. I mean, that's one of the main reasons why we have this podcast, is so we can analyze all that stuff.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And so if you see a specific ingredient that's been touted and it's starting to blow up, it's likely because data analysts saw that that ingredient was starting to have an uptick and starting to take off. And so they did the studies, they looked into it, they collected the data, and then based off that, they said to the industry, we foresee this blowing up. And then a lot of brands are like, okay, well, this ingredient is going to pop off. We should probably include it in the future. Manufacturers and suppliers start providing that ingredient within white label formulas or maybe offering it to people that are customizing their Own products.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And then from there we start to see it on the shelves. And that's why we start seeing a lot of ingredients like niacinamide in makeup or.

[Kirby]

Or in sunscreen.

[Sarah]

Yeah, or in sunscreen or. We had the CBD boom at one point.

[Kirby]

Oh, my gosh. Remember that?

[Sarah]

But then, you know, obviously, regulatory issues are what caused that to come crashing down. But for a minute, you were seeing every product feature CBD based off of the data that the consumers were interested in this. They were gravitating towards it. There was data around the fd, efficacy of it in certain aspects. There was also, like, a lack of data in some regard too, with that, and that's why I don't think it's as popular anymore. But if you are a. What was the term she used? A data science nerd. And she works in the government sector. I don't know if that's your current job doing data science, but I think that if you are looking to pivot to beauty, if you understand how to analyze data, that is a very lucrative part of this business, 100%. As Sarah mentioned, it's part of our many jobs that we have. That's how we consult. We're able to look at the data and say, okay, like, this is performing really well. But why. But why is this. Is this just a flash in the pan? Do we think there's long tail visibility here? Is there long tail success with this? Why or why not?

[Kirby]

And I think it also is part of the reason why we love doing Los Angeles Confidential is because that in and of itself is like data collection. Like, we get to hear from you guys directly, like, whether you've heard of this product before. Where do you like to shop for your Lip products, how you liked the Lip product that you tested, you know, things like that.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

So it's. It's definitely something that we care a lot about. And if. Yeah, like Kirby said, if you are looking to pivot into beauty, I'm sure that there are a million jobs for you because it is very integral to the industry. Summer's here, and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dressed season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways and more. Discover stylish options under a hundred dollars from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly and madewell. It's easy, too, with free shipping and free returns in store order, pickup and more. Shop today in stores [e-mail] or download the Nordstrom app.