Daniel Martin Returns to Talk Products He Uses on Meghan Markle, Red Carpet Mishaps, and Why He Isn’t on TikTok

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Daniel Martin Returns to Talk Products He Uses on Meghan Markle, Red Carpet Mishaps, and Why He Isn’t on TikTok
Release Date: June 6, 2025
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan
Guest: Daniel Martin

---

1. Reuniting After Six Years [00:37 - 01:37]

The episode kicks off with Kirbie and Sara warmly welcoming back their first-ever guest, Daniel Martin, marking six years since his initial appearance in Sara's dining room. The hosts reminisce about the first meeting, highlighting the welcoming atmosphere and the initial impressions.

Kirbie ([00:58]): "So wild, right? I think we all went through some sort of transformation."

2. Career Transformations Post-Pandemic [01:37 - 03:17]

Daniel discusses the significant changes in the beauty industry over the past six years, particularly the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic. Kirbie shares her transition to Tatcha in 2020, detailing the remote work environment and the challenges of product creation during lockdown.

Kirbie ([02:52]): "That I joined Tatcha in 2020. Hallelujah. Because the world shut down."

3. Innovative Products for Tatcha [03:17 - 05:02]

Daniel elaborates on the products he developed for Tatcha, including the Black Chic Square Blotting Papers and Kyoto Red, which debuted at the Met Gala with Chloe Sevigny. He also discusses the Silk Primer Balm, a versatile sunscreen and makeup primer that caters to all skin tones without leaving a white cast.

Daniel Martin ([03:23]): "The first one was a... Black Chic Square Blotting Papers. I wish we could bring them back because they were charcoal infused."

4. Essential Makeup Tools and Favorites [05:02 - 10:02]

The conversation shifts to essential makeup tools. Kirbie recommends the IT Cosmetics buffing brush and shares her experience with durable brushes, emphasizing the importance of quality tools. She also introduces her favorite eyelash curler and discusses the significance of products like Ruby Woo by MAC and Orsay Foundations for achieving a natural yet polished look.

Kirbie ([05:08]): "Everyone needs a sponge. But I don't apply makeup with the sponge. I apply it with a brush and I buff it out with the sponge."

5. Handling High-Pressure Events: Met Gala, SNL, and Royal Weddings [10:02 - 34:46]

Daniel recounts his experiences working on high-profile events such as the Met Gala, Saturday Night Live (SNL), and royal weddings. He shares a particularly stressful moment during an SNL skit with Maya Rudolph, highlighting the fast-paced and unpredictable nature of live television makeup artistry.

Kirbie ([32:12]): "Funny. I think SNL actually."

Daniel contrasts this with the meticulous preparations required for the Met Gala and royal events, emphasizing the need for precision and adaptability.

Kirbie ([33:17]): "It was like this big scramble. So I wound up assisting her to fix Maya for the next skit. And that was so stressful."

6. The Role of Social Media for Makeup Artists [14:09 - 37:29]

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the evolving role of social media in the beauty industry. Kirbie expresses her reluctance to engage deeply with platforms like TikTok, preferring to use social media as a tool to share work rather than actively seeking new business. Daniel and the hosts deliberate on the balance between maintaining professional relationships and managing personal brand presence online.

Kirbie ([14:09]): "I just don't want to get into that, but I know how instrumental TikTok can be for certain people."

Daniel highlights the challenges faced by seasoned makeup artists in adapting to the social media-driven landscape, contrasting it with the newer generation's approach.

Daniel Martin ([16:30]): "This is not Patty Dubrov's calling card. This is not Mark Townsend's calling card."

7. Navigating Public Perception and Criticism [25:12 - 37:29]

The trio delves into the public scrutiny faced by high-profile clients like Meghan Markle. They discuss the negativity and jealousy often directed towards such figures, emphasizing the importance of empathy and authenticity. Kirbie shares her stance on defending Meghan and promoting positivity amidst backlash.

Kirbie ([25:12]): "It's jealousy. It's racism. It's envy."

8. Memorable Makeup Mishaps and Lessons Learned [28:05 - 36:33]

Kirbie recounts a notable mishap while preparing Olivia Palermo for Fashion Week, where uneven eyeliner almost marred her client's appearance. However, the situation turned favorable as Olivia still shined on the best-dressed lists despite the minor flaw.

Kirbie ([29:58]): "She wound up on the best, like, best dress list or something. So I was like, oh, my God."

9. Advice for Aspiring Makeup Artists [38:20 - 44:35]

Kirbie offers invaluable advice to those looking to hone their makeup skills. She emphasizes understanding personal preferences and avoiding the pressure to replicate tutorials that may lead to product wastage. Instead, she encourages aspiring artists to identify and embrace what works best for their unique features.

Kirbie ([38:52]): "Understand what you don't like. Because I think once you understand what you don't like, then everything else makes it easier."

10. Exciting Announcements from House of Tatcha [40:08 - 42:46]

Daniel shares exciting news about House of Tatcha's latest product launches, including a new Dewy Milk moisturizer and limited-edition charms for products like the Kissu Lip Mask and Silk Sunscreen Stick. The hosts express their enthusiasm for these innovative offerings, highlighting their compatibility with longwear foundations and sustainable packaging.

Kirbie ([40:46]): "And it's so compatible with that on top of it."

11. Nostalgia: Makeup in the '90s and Early 2000s [43:37 - 51:22]

The conversation takes a nostalgic turn as the hosts and Daniel reflect on makeup trends from the '90s and early 2000s. They share personal anecdotes about favorite products like Maybelline Dream Mousse Foundation, vaseline primers, and iconic mascaras. Daniel reminisces about the Prescriptives Spice Lip Liner, expressing a desire for its return.

Daniel Martin ([46:50]): "Prescriptives needs to come back."

12. Future Collaborations and Closing Thoughts [52:06 - 54:00]

In a light-hearted finale, the hosts joke about future episodes featuring Megan Markle, envisioning playful collaborations. They wrap up by sharing personal touches, such as creating a Fruit Rainbow for Zoe and exchanging affectionate remarks.

Sarah ([52:07]): "We have a Daniel."

Kirbie ([53:42]): "Sweet. She's like, oh, my goodness."

Conclusion

This episode of Gloss Angeles offers an engaging glimpse into Daniel Martin's illustrious career, his reflections on industry changes, and his invaluable insights on makeup artistry. From product innovation at Tatcha to navigating the high-pressure environment of red carpet events, Daniel shares experiences that resonate with both aspiring and seasoned beauty professionals. The hosts skillfully blend professional discussions with personal anecdotes, creating a rich and captivating narrative that underscores the evolving dynamics of the beauty world.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Kirbie ([02:52]): "That I joined Tatcha in 2020. Hallelujah. Because the world shut down."

• Daniel Martin ([03:23]): "The first one was a... Black Chic Square Blotting Papers. I wish we could bring them back because they were charcoal infused."

• Kirbie ([05:08]): "Everyone needs a sponge. But I don't apply makeup with the sponge. I apply it with a brush and I buff it out with the sponge."

• Daniel Martin ([16:30]): "This is not Patty Dubrov's calling card. This is not Mark Townsend's calling card."

• Kirbie ([38:52]): "Understand what you don't like. Because I think once you understand what you don't like, then everything else makes it easier."

• Daniel Martin ([46:50]): "Prescriptives needs to come back."

---

This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the episode, capturing the essence of the discussions, key insights, and memorable moments shared by Kirbie Johnson, Sara Tan, and Daniel Martin.

Transcript

[Paige DeSorbo]

This is Paige desorbo from Gigli Squad. Boost Mobile is no longer that prepaid wireless company you remember. They've invested billions into building their own 5G towers across America. With Boost Mobile's networks, customers enjoy the speed and service they'd expect from the big three, plus groundbreaking benefits you'd only get from a true challenger of the industry. Boost Mobile will let you try the network risk free for 30 days. So visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or find us [e-mail] today.

[Kirby]

G L A M Los Angeles.

[Sarah]

Hi, Kirby. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles. Today is a very exciting episode because we have our very first guest back in studio. Look how far we've come. Daniel Martin.

[Daniel Martin]

Six years.

[Kirby]

Six years.

[Daniel Martin]

Six years. And you were our very first. In Sarah's dining room in Mid City.

[Sarah]

You said we had charcuterie.

[Kirby]

Mid City. Yes. You had charcuterie before. Charcuterie was charcuterie.

[Sarah]

No, I remember.

[Kirby]

And crudite.

[Sarah]

We were like, I was definitely a little bit more stressed than. Because obviously you were coming into my home. But also I was like, we have to, like, make sure Daniel enjoys himself. Like, this is a big get for us.

[Kirby]

This is a big get. Oh, my God, that's so funny.

[Daniel Martin]

It was.

[Kirby]

It was so fun. And I got to meet your husband that day.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it was so fun.

[Kirby]

It was like. It was really, really awesome.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I wish podcast were all like that.

[Daniel Martin]

Oh, it was great.

[Kirby]

It was really great.

[Daniel Martin]

We had a good time.

[Sarah]

Well, we're so happy to have you back because a lot has happened in six years. Not just for us, but for you.

[Daniel Martin]

So much has changed.

[Kirby]

So wild, right? I think we all went through some sort of transformation. I mean, through Covid, but I just feel like even the last three years, when we got out of it, life has just sped up in such a way that we can't keep up.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. Because we did see you before the pandemic. That's wild.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy. And you were not with Tatcha at the time.

[Kirby]

No, no. So you said September, so you.

[Sarah]

I think you were still with Dior.

[Kirby]

I was still with Dior and I still with Honest.

[Eva Chen]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And I think if you said September, I was in town for Emmys, and I think that's how we scheduled the podcast.

[Daniel Martin]

Yes.

[Kirby]

But I don't think I was able to tell you guys this, but Vicky from Tatcha, when she sold to Unilever, I went to London with her to sign the documents because I was just tagging along and she had planted. She was like, you know, I know your dream has always been to be a creative director for a brand. I could possibly do that for you now. And then she planted that seed. And then in December, it was final.

[Daniel Martin]

Wow.

[Kirby]

That I joined Tatcha in 2020. Hallelujah. Because the world shut down.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

So lucky that those papers were signed.

[Kirby]

Before, because I started officially in June 2020, and we're on lockdown.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So everything was happening remote. I was, you know, I was creating products in New York. Everybody was in San Francisco. Everybody was working from home. So we had to kind of figure it all out.

[Sarah]

That's so crazy.

[Daniel Martin]

Daniel, for people that may not be aware, what were some of the products that you created for Tatcha?

[Kirby]

The first one was a. Back then, Vicky had created the OG block papers, which were like a big square. And I had asked her, I was like, you know, is there a way that we can make these smaller for my clients to put in their clutches? Because, you know, red carpet, you can't fit anything. Exactly. So we created these black chic square blotting papers. And I wish we could bring them back. Cause they were charcoal infused. So I still have a few of those left. And then I created Kyoto Red for her, which we debuted at Met Gala with Chloe Sevigny. And then Silk Primer Balm. My God, I feel like there's been so many. Until I officially joined. But I was working on the silk sunscreen with her for years, and I was like, we have to create a sunscreen that's for every skin tone that doesn't have a white cast and that I could use as a makeup primer. Ta da.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. Because that's the thing about makeup artists, specifically. Oftentimes they don't apply a sunscreen before someone's going on a carpet. They're just not.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

You know?

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

So can't risk it.

[Kirby]

No.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

But I do, like, I love the silk primer, too. It's, like, still one of my favorites.

[Kirby]

Yeah. It locks down makeup. It really does grip. A thing that I tell people is that if you use your skincare with. If you use products with your hands, it feels like skincare.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Once you introduce a tool to. It becomes makeupy. So, like, if you're using a primer to capture your foundation, use it with your hands to make it feel like it's part of your skincare. Because then you psychologically don't think that it's another makeup layer.

[Daniel Martin]

Right.

[Sarah]

We have to ask you, what are five things that you Think everyone should have.

[Kirby]

Besides tools or.

[Sarah]

I mean, if there's a tool that you really need.

[Kirby]

A sponge. Everyone needs a sponge. But I don't apply makeup with the sponge. I apply it with a brush and I buff it out with the sponge.

[Sarah]

Okay, so just two step.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it's a two step.

[Sarah]

Is there a, like a foundation brush that you really like to use?

[Kirby]

I love the IT Cosmetics buffing brush. I feel like that one is just kind of like a.

[Sarah]

Your go to.

[Kirby]

My go to. I have this busted ass Trish McAvoy sable concealer brush from, like when I first started makeup, like 30 years ago that's been hot glued and, like taped that I still use religiously. Cause the. I mean, everything's moved into synthetic fiber with brushes now. But if you take care of your brushes, they will last you forever. And this one has lasted me forever. So it's like your brushes are definitely important. An eyelash curler is important.

[Daniel Martin]

What's your favorite eyelash curler?

[Kirby]

Oh, gosh. I found this amazing one on Amazon that's like $12. And it's so good because it gives you a nice spring. And I think that's a thing that's missing with eyelash curlers is that once that spring gives, you're literally just like chopping down your lashes. But this one has a nice spring and then the band inside.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

I don't know what the brand is.

[Daniel Martin]

You'll send us the link?

[Kirby]

Yeah, I'll send you the link, but it's been amazing. I love that one.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

Ruby Woo by Mac. That lipstick is always in my kit. Dior 999 Red. I've been obsessed recently with the Orsay foundations.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

Those are so good for editorial. Red carpet. It works really well with the liquid silk canvas underneath it, but it still gives you that beautiful, healthy glow. But it doesn't look makeupy. And that's my biggest thing. If I can see the makeup. Got to take it off.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

It needs to just look impeccable.

[Sarah]

Do you. I'm sure you've gotten, like, far in your career where you don't have to ever start over, but do you, like, sometimes have to, like, be like. You look at your client and you're like, I need to like, oh, yeah.

[Kirby]

All the time.

[Sarah]

Oh, really?

[Daniel Martin]

Really?

[Kirby]

Oh, yeah. If I use something new and then I put something on top of it and I see it starting to roll, you gotta take that shit off.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Cause there's no saving it at that point.

[Kirby]

There's no saving it.

[Sarah]

And you Want them to look good and feel good.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And this is your work that you're sending out there.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't be going out looking all busted like you. You know what I mean? Like. Cause people will know.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And I mean, that's the thing about makeup. So, like, I remember I was in Paris once, and I can't remember who I was working with, but we were in such a rush, and literally, she's walking out the door, and she's like, oh, we forgot to moisturize my legs. And I'm just grabbing what's in the bathroom, and I used a hand wash and just putting it on her leg. Dry. And it wasn't like, yeah, absorbing, absorbing. And then she just had to go. And it's. It's stuck with me ever since. Granted, I have not seen this person since, but I just wonder if, like, if she got wet, like, her legs would start.

[Sarah]

She's like, why would I?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

That could actually be a really cool effect for a Met gala red carpet in the future with, like, a really fun theme where it's like, oh, yeah. And then it becomes all soapy, and everyone's like, wow. Melting.

[Kirby]

Was it Zendaya that was Cinderella?

[Daniel Martin]

Yes. And was the fairy godmother.

[Kirby]

That was cool.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. There was something like that. Like a fun little gimmicky moment.

[Kirby]

Totally. Transformation.

[Sarah]

Eva, by the way, Eva Chen. You did her makeup. You always do her makeup for the Met.

[Kirby]

Yeah. She looked so nine years.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it's fun. It's kind of like a tradition.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

So you do. You only ever work with her?

[Kirby]

So usually it's. If I'm slammed that day, I've stopped taking more than two.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And if I do two, they have to be like. If they're staying at the Mark, one is staying at the Carlisle because they shut down the elevators at a certain time.

[Sarah]

That's what I heard.

[Kirby]

So it's like a shit show to, like, even get into the Mark. Like, this year in particular, you had to go come in from the Fifth Avenue side, which was a first. So I tell the Instagram team, I'm like, I don't care if I have to find a corner and just, like, be by myself. I need to be in there at least two hours before we start, because it's a nightmare. And it's just like, the fans and the people and then, like, the tailors. No one really understands what goes behind this event.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kirby]

It's just so many layers.

[Sarah]

I mean, I was, like, watching Eva's story and like, there were no less than, like, 10 people in the room working on her at all times.

[Kirby]

It's crazy.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I told my sister, I'm like, you can just stay out this time because there's only so much room in her room. We got there early enough that, like, hair had their time with her, and then I had my time with her, and then there was a moment where the. The designer was in with his team, and then the jeweler was there and was just kind of, like, trying to climb over a bed to, like, touch her up her eye or, like, get her body or something.

[Daniel Martin]

Wow.

[Kirby]

But, yeah, it's always. And then the whole Instagram team takes over the penthouse.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

And there's eight rooms. I think it's eight rooms. So, like, Adam's there with his wife, and Charles is there with his partner. Like, all the C suite of Instagram are all there. And then they invite influencers for this whole activation.

[Daniel Martin]

Yep.

[Kirby]

So it's just chaos. Bananas, bananas.

[Sarah]

Okay. How did you make Eva's makeup last all night long? Is there a setting spray? Is there a powder? Or is it just the application of the makeup?

[Kirby]

I mean, she has incredible skin, and this was actually. I've. I've. I have so much Danessa Myricks in my kit that it was. It was kind of foolproof, but this was the first time that I used her yummy skin tint with this new product we're launching, and with a new.

[Sarah]

Product that tat is launching.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And it was incredible. It just added this radiance that, in real life, was awesome. But then when I saw the pictures, it didn't make her look too shiny. So when you have that marriage, you're kind of like, yeah, because the worst thing you want is for everything to read a certain way than when they left.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

But, yeah, I just. I know exactly what to do with her. She hates a lot of makeup, so it's just, like, finding those key elements on her face that's really gonna pop that she's gonna feel comfortable with. But, yeah, it was. It was a fun, fun theme. And, I mean, I can't wait to see the exhibition, because I feel like, culturally it's really important, and it was the most money that they raised, which is freaking incredible, and I think is.

[Daniel Martin]

A testament to what's going on in this country, and I think speaks to a bigger movement overall. So that's really exciting to hear. You have one more product to share with us.

[Sarah]

So you counted for.

[Daniel Martin]

Yep.

[Kirby]

Oh.

[Sarah]

Oh, I'm glad Kirby was counting.

[Kirby]

Yes. Oh, this is a new product that's in my kit, but it's. It's live tinted hue glow.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

It does this beautiful glass. It makes your. I use it on Megan for an event, and it just gives your skin this beautiful. It's like when Pat McGrath did the whole mask with the. That just made skin look like glass. Yeah, it's that, but in a beauty product.

[Daniel Martin]

So you used it on her body?

[Kirby]

I used it on Megan's body. Megan's face. Like, I. Yeah, because it just. It just adds this radiance to the skin that doesn't look like makeup.

[Daniel Martin]

It's kind of in one of.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it's like a squeeze bottle.

[Daniel Martin]

Squeeze bottle. It's one of her OG products.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Daniel Martin]

It's been around for a minute, but it's new to your kit.

[Kirby]

It's new to my kit. There's a few shades, and I think I used golden hour on Megan. But I add it to foundation, too, if I want to add a bit of radiance, because the texture feels like skin care. It's very compatible with makeup.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

And sometimes with makeup, things can get too shiny if it's already, like, shimmery.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Where this just. Just gives it an. Added it A lacquer.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

You know what I mean? It's just that lacquer.

[Daniel Martin]

Lacquer is a good way to put it.

[Kirby]

Cause it's clear, but there's, like, no makeup in it.

[Sarah]

All right. The secret to Megan's glow.

[Daniel Martin]

All right, Daniel, so your career has spanned decades at this point, which is crazy because you're 21, so been working.

[Sarah]

Since the womb and aging backwards.

[Kirby]

So halifucking Luya. Bring it on, Benjamin Buttons.

[Daniel Martin]

So the question we had was, how has your approach evolved over your career? But I'm actually curious, how has your approach evolved since we last saw you?

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

In 2019.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God. That's such a great question, because so much changed. So much changed. And everything went, like, on to social. Yeah, basically. It's interesting because I feel like. I mean, I just. I struggle. And, you know, so. So many of my contemporaries of my generation do this as well. Is how do you show up on social media? I'm not on TikTok. I have a TikTok account, but I can't get in. I just don't want to get into that, but I know how instrumental TikTok can be for certain people. I'm at a point in my career that if you don't know me, chatgpt me, Google me, you don't need to see me on Instagram, you don't need to find me on TikTok. I just don't. I use social as a means to kind of share and I don't really promote work. I share my work. I share the situations I'm in with certain people. I don't create content specifically to try to get new business on that platform. And I think a lot of people are in that weird struggle right now. It's like, how do I show up in this space? And especially a 50 something year old person, like, I don't want to come off looking so thirsty.

[Sarah]

Yeah, like, well, you don't need to.

[Kirby]

But there are some people who are like, oh, where have you been? Yeah, it's like, if I'm not on there, I'm fucking busy as hell. Yeah, you don't need to know where I'm at 24 7.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

Like, no one knows I'm here. I haven't posted in like 3 days, 4 days.

[Sarah]

But do you think as like a up and coming makeup artist, you need to be active and show your work on all of these social media?

[Kirby]

I mean, I feel bad for this newer generation because social is their portfolio. I mean, back in the day we carried these big ass portfolios around, just hustling our work. But, but Instagram is basically your portfolio now. And you have to kind of come to terms with how you show up in that space. But also how do you stay relevant? It's, it's a science because a lot of it depends on personality and how much you're willing to share and how authentic can you come off without it being so performative.

[Daniel Martin]

Well, for I think the younger generation though, this is their calling card. This is not your calling card.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

This is not Patty Dubrov's calling card. This is not Mark Townsend's calling card. You have established careers and have been doing this for decades. Right. And people know how to contact you. They also probably work with you because, for instance, Megan knows that you're not gonna be bothering her to create a tutorial where she's the face of it. And then so you can post it on your Instagram or TikTok.

[Kirby]

Right, right.

[Daniel Martin]

I thought Patty Dubroff actually did it a really interesting way. After Sofia Richie's wedding, she blew up because her makeup looked incredible. They. She finally was like, well, okay, these are some of the products I use. Then people are just like, tell us more. Like, why did you use this? And then she's just kind of like, okay, yeah, but like, you don't see her like doing a tutorial on Margot Robbie, being like, mario, can you sit here and like, let me do this on you?

[Sarah]

Right.

[Daniel Martin]

It's just like, this is my work, this is what I did. And then also, hey, I'm obsessed with this product. Like, if you want your mascara to last, try this type of thing.

[Kirby]

Exactly, exactly.

[Daniel Martin]

It's a very professional. It's, I think, why your clients continue to work with you and why you have a certain caliber of client. And I'm not trying to minimize anybody else's work because there's room for everybody. But I. I do think that, like, the younger generation, like, this is how they're getting a. They're starting a career.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah. And I feel like the ones that I've met who are trying to struggle that balance of like, I just want to do the work, but then how do I show up in this space?

[Eva Chen]

Ye.

[Sarah]

Cause you have to be good at it too. And it's like sometimes it just doesn't come naturally for a lot of people.

[Daniel Martin]

And it can be a double edged sword though, because if that person wants to work on a Megan, right, they're like. And she goes to the profile and goes. All they do is tiktoks behind the scenes in the room.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Daniel Martin]

Especially if you're. Are we sure that they're not gonna do something?

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

You know, But I will say, speaking of Patty, what I do appreciate about like this more, like experience guard of makeup artists and hairstylists like Mark, is that I love learning about what you guys used before uncertain people. Like when the Mary Kate and Ashley, like when that blew up, and Patty was like, this is what I used. And Mark was like, this is what I used. There's just so much history with like, your work. And when the younger generation can be educated on that or even like us getting like the tea behind it, I'm just like, oh, my God, I need more of this. I want to know everything.

[Kirby]

So fascinating.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

It's funny how certain people can trigger certain things. Things. But these are probably things that you've had in your kit forever. Like I, for the longest time, Revlon skin lights. Remember that product I had? It was that and the Armani luminous silk. Those were my dynamic duo for complexion all through 2000s to about 2010.

[Daniel Martin]

Do they make skin lights anymore?

[Kirby]

I just found something by l' Oreal that is very similar and that's what I loved about that product that you can get at the fucking drugstore.

[Daniel Martin]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And it was just so beautiful.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And that was like my dynamic duo for skin was Armani.

[Daniel Martin]

And that even when you were on the podcast in 2019, you told us that you used Pinterest with Megan to help design her makeup look for the wedding. And at that time, TikTok was not around TikTok. It was musically or something.

[Kirby]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Remember?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

So it was even before it's like, oh, we were using Pinterest at that point. Like, and to this day, we're still using Pinterest all the time.

[Kirby]

I love it.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Inspiration for my house. Inspiration for a costume.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Yeah. So when we went to Scad.

[Daniel Martin]

Yes.

[Kirby]

You've been back since.

[Sarah]

Yes, we just went back.

[Kirby]

That's right. That's right.

[Sarah]

And you were just there.

[Kirby]

No, I'm going there. Going there because they asked me to creative direct the senior fashion show, so I'm super stoked. But that was, like, my whole mood board was Pinterest.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah. But are you using. You say you have a TikTok account. Are you on TikTok? Like, are you finding. No. Okay, but are you on Instagram? I am on Instagram finding inspiration that way, too.

[Kirby]

I mean, I just. Random shit you want to buy. Yeah, I don't, like, I'm not scrolling to discover new beauty. If anything, I'm. It's the conversations that I'm really interested in. Like, I love your podcast on Instagram because it's all these soundbites that you're like, oh, shit. Aaron Parsons. I love following Aaron Parsons on Instagram because she is such an incredible storyteller, and her knowledge with, like, makeup history is just phenomenal. Clayton, too, like, oh, my God.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah, you love him.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Clayton's amazing. So it's like, those are the people that I'm attracted to on Instagram.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Mel Robbins. I'm obsessed with Mel Robbins.

[Daniel Martin]

Really?

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Daniel Martin]

How does Mel Robbins impact your work, though?

[Kirby]

I feel like to not give a shit. Let them.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You guys, everyone can. Can learn from that.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

So what are you letting them?

[Kirby]

Let. Let them. If anything, I've learned you can't worry too much about what other people are thinking. And so much of our work is all comparison. It's all judgmental. It's who's working with who. Why did this person get hired for this? Blah, blah, blah. Like, that's on you. That shit's on you. And that's what I loved about when I discovered Mel Robbins. I was like, oh, my God, let them act like that. Let them, like, worry about what I'm doing, because it's not bothering me, you know?

[Daniel Martin]

Bo, Nelson.

[Kirby]

Yes. I love Beau.

[Daniel Martin]

I love Beau. I saw a comment of his recently on a post that was kind of shaming a specific artist for working for free before he had a career. And Beau was like, okay, yeah, it happened. That happened. But that person now has a full fledged career and benefited from doing that. How was that so different from us taking assistant jobs for free when we were first getting started? And also like, why the fuck do we care?

[Kirby]

Right?

[Daniel Martin]

And I thought there was. I was like, thank you. I actually agree because it wasn't that he took those jobs and then took that job away from other working people because at the end of the day, that client was never gonna pay anyone.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Daniel Martin]

So he was smart enough to say, okay, yeah, I'll do it for free if you post me. And then it went from there. So it's kind of that let them theory where who's laughing now? That person is a huge name in beauty. You know what I mean? And I think I can actually just speak Patrick Ta.

[Eva Chen]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

It was a whole E News story. Patty Dubroff actually recently just came out and said, I made some comments in 2016 that I regret.

[Kirby]

Oh my God. I remember when all that happened.

[Daniel Martin]

Remember, it was a huge, huge ordeal. And Jen Atkin got involved and made some comments about it because it was essentially saying Patti was like, well, you know, Patrick Ta worked for free. And like, if you value yourself, like, you should be charging for things and you also should, you know, are kind of minimizing everybody else's work at the same time. And I think that that is true. However, you don't have to take a job that doesn't pay. But if somebody's just getting started and they need the opportunity. Yeah, he utilized it. And he didn't just say, I'll do it for free. He said, I get to post this.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

And I get. You get to also post this and promote me. And it worked out for him.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

And. Yeah. And. And Patty. Patty rolled back her comments and she said, I actually, I'm. I regret what I said. I don't believe it anymore. And I think social media is actually hugely powerful and beneficial for me. So.

[Sarah]

Good for Patty.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah, I think it's a really interesting conversation overall of like, just own it, own it. Let them. Let people think what they're gonna think. You're doing what's best for you.

[Kirby]

Yeah, right.

[Daniel Martin]

It's. It's Yalls industry is so fascinating to me. Like, just thinking about, like, someone's looking at your Instagram going, well, why, why Hasn't Megan changed things up? Why is she still with him? Like, things like that, where you're like.

[Sarah]

Well, clearly, especially you. And like, you were just. Obviously, you've achieved so much. You've done, like, everything that, like, most makeup artists dream about.

[Daniel Martin]

Campaigns, the Met, literally. Royal wedding.

[Sarah]

Who else is gonna be able to.

[Daniel Martin]

Do a royal wedding, I ask you? It'll be, like, 30 years from now. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Sarah]

We'll all be dead.

[Kirby]

Seriously.

[Sarah]

But, like, you truly, of anyone can be like, let them. Right.

[Kirby]

I never thought of it like that.

[Sarah]

But, like, I mean, even just, like, being on the show with Megan, like, I can't even imagine the noise comments that people are tweeting or leaving and saying about her. But then you. Because you're her dear friend. Why do people.

[Daniel Martin]

Why are they so good up in arms about this woman? It is my.

[Kirby]

It's jealousy. It's racism. It's envy.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And at this point, I'm like, bring it.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

And it's funny, for the longest time, a lot of us who are close to her, we didn't know how to navigate all of this. And when the show came out, I think for me, I was like, you know what? If you can't see a friendship that she has with these people on the show, that's on you.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Right.

[Kirby]

And, like, if you're gonna come at me or make a snide comment on social, don't think that I'm not gonna see it and say something.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So it's like, that's the thing that's so fucking crazy to me. Can I.

[Sarah]

Yes, of course.

[Kirby]

All the time I'm just like, what makes you think that we won't see this? And then you get pissed off that I'm making a comment about it. Like, you had the balls. You don't even comment and tag me.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

About this comment. What makes you think that I can't comment back?

[Daniel Martin]

With your full face and full name.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Seriously.

[Daniel Martin]

It's actually kind of hilarious.

[Kirby]

Out of my face, out of my face. Come on. Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

When you were on last, not to keep referencing, but you were our first guest, so it was very integral to our podcast.

[Sarah]

It's the only reason why we're still here.

[Daniel Martin]

Yes. Because we got Daniel Martin first guest ever, but she was still the Duchess.

[Kirby]

2019. Yeah.

[Sarah]

She was still there.

[Daniel Martin]

Of Sussex at the time.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Daniel Martin]

I mean, she still is, but at that. And I feel. It's interesting because now I feel like you're mentioning her a lot more in this episode than you were maybe allowed to before. I think we were like, we can try to ask one question and then we got the Pinterest for the wedding thing. But you just casually being like, yeah. And even Megan using live tinted, it feels a little bit more relaxed and a little bit more.

[Kirby]

Yes. She's living her life now. We're all living our life.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I mean, she literally. She's free. She's free. She is thriving. I mean, she is thriving. Let's be honest.

[Kirby]

I mean, I'm just so proud of her. And what. Because this is who she's always been. All of us who've known her. I've known her for 15 years. This is who she is.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And it's like, if you don't see that and you don't think it's coming from an authentic place, then you need to go check yourself.

[Sarah]

And people are getting mad about her literally making a rainbow out of fruit or like putting pre made peanut butter pretzels in a Ziploc.

[Daniel Martin]

I was not mad about that. I just thought it was hilarious because it was just like such a. It was such a homemaking thing to do. But, like, then people were so outraged by it. I'm like, I guarantee you, your aunt, mom, whoever also did this because they.

[Kirby]

Don'T want to see it in this Trader Joe's bag. Put it in something else.

[Daniel Martin]

Like you're a homemaker. This is lifestyle.

[Kirby]

I mean, there's so many people dipping their finger in the Kool Aid, not knowing the flavor. So just shut up.

[Daniel Martin]

That's such a great way to put it. This is a personal note. Meghan and Harry's docu series on Netflix that came out, I think 2022.

[Kirby]

Oh, the very first one.

[Daniel Martin]

The very first one.

[Kirby]

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[Daniel Martin]

The very first one. I watched that and then I have a journal and I was going through it the other day and it was literally, I'm like crying.

[Sarah]

Hold on.

[Daniel Martin]

I was just like, is this, like, so embarrassing that I'm crying about this? It was like, these two love each other and you can tell. And, you know, I hope to find a love like that one day. And it was just. It was so sweet. I just hate that she gets all of this negativity towards her. You know what I mean? Because they're just people with kids.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

Just trying to, like, have a better life right here. Safety for their children.

[Kirby]

Exactly, exactly.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

And everything that Harry has been through in his life too, I'm just like, where's the empathy, you know?

[Kirby]

Right, right. I Mean, I think people have this idea of people that are up here and they just are so on such a high frequency that it's unattainable. Like, we have, like you said, it's the empathy. Like they're fucking humans and they're doing it. Like we all are. And it's just, you know, some people have this idea of what a famous person or a celebrity is supposed to live. Like. Yeah, especially a fucking royal.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Right.

[Sarah]

Well, I saw a video of him at Beyonce, both of them at Beyonce, and they seem to be living my life.

[Daniel Martin]

Video were hilarious. They were like every white man showing him the Beyonce way. I was like, yeah.

[Sarah]

It made me so happy. It brought me so much joy. We talked a little bit about, like a catastrophe with the soap, but are there any other, like, horror stories? Not horror stories, but really memorable stories, like, looks that you worked on where maybe it didn't go how you wanted it, but then it became like the best thing ever or like it didn't go how you wanted and you. You have, like, nightmares about it.

[Kirby]

There's one incident where I got Olivia Palermo ready for a. She was going to a fashion show. It was like during Fashion Week, and. And it was early in the morning and I. We did a cat eye, but one eye was going north and the other eye was going, like, east. So one was going up and the other one just went straight across. And she texted me from the car on her way to the show and she's like, my eyeliner is totally crooked. And she sent me a screenshot like, holy shit, I'm so sorry. And she had to, like, adjust her hair so it covered one eye. And then all the photos. She's like, giving you this side where it was going up. And she like, wound up on the best, like, best dress list or something. So I was like, oh, my God.

[Sarah]

Thank God.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah, it worked in your favor.

[Kirby]

Hallelujah. But like, that always happens.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. That's.

[Daniel Martin]

That's me on a daily basis.

[Sarah]

Same, literally.

[Daniel Martin]

That's a. That's.

[Sarah]

I don't know how you do. I don't know how anyone puts a cat eye on someone else.

[Kirby]

And I'm left handed, so I tend to over. So do you over direct?

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah, sometimes I'll have it like, almost north. Like, it's scary. I'm like, no, girl.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Curve it a little bit outward. Bring it out. Like. Also, this eye is heavier than this eye. So I have to like. Really?

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah. So I've had to, like, figure out, do it and then clean it up.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And then when you clean it up, that's where you get the shape.

[Daniel Martin]

When you clean up, do you use makeup remover or do you use a foundation or concealer?

[Kirby]

I use these, like, Japanese, like, super, like, Muji Q tips and just with my slower water.

[Daniel Martin]

Yep.

[Sarah]

Okay. Do you have a favorite?

[Kirby]

The Bioderma.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Yep.

[Kirby]

It's so good. And I also love the 30.

[Sarah]

30.

[Kirby]

30 years old. What?

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

No way.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. 30 years of Bioderma.

[Kirby]

Also like the Garnier.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

The mice. Yeah. Their micellar waters are great.

[Sarah]

Okay. That's not that bad.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I mean, that wasn't that bad. I mean.

[Sarah]

Yeah, because you're just so good. It's like. That was the worst.

[Kirby]

That was the worst of anything.

[Daniel Martin]

Okay. What's more stressful? Snl, the Met or the Royal Wedding?

[Sarah]

Stressful.

[Kirby]

Funny. I think SNL actually.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Because you're in real time. And I remember this one particular moment, I was with Maya Rudolph, and we. So you do a pre tape at like 7:30.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

And then from there they see what makes the cut for the live. And there's a whole arrangement, like it's. It's orchestrated. And there was one when she was doing the Beyonce Hot Wings. Did you guys see that one?

[Daniel Martin]

Yes.

[Sarah]

He's so good.

[Kirby]

That was. It was that skit going into something where. So they have the SNL makeup artist and then they have her like regular makeup artists. And when you're there with talent, if the person isn't in costume, that's your responsibility. And when they are in costume, that's SNL's responsibility. So, like, when she was in transformation for Beyonce, that was snl. And then I was supposed to see her right afterwards, which would have been seconds.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So I was so stressed out because they were walking through the skit and she's getting doused with water. She's like. Like supposed to be sweating. Her eyelash came undone, but they switched the skits, so she had to go back into costume for another character, which meant that the SNL makeup artist had to be there. But they didn't do this until this, like, literally when the skit was happening. So they were trying to find her because she thought I was missing.

[Daniel Martin]

Oh, my God.

[Kirby]

And it was her. So it was like this big scramble. So I wound up assisting her to fix Maya for the next skit. And that was so stressful.

[Daniel Martin]

There's a reason why that hair and makeup team wins all the awards just from the start to finish of it all. It's high pressure. They're doing crazy stuff. The stuff they do on Bow and Yang.

[Kirby]

I'm like, amazing.

[Daniel Martin]

Y' all are wild for this.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And you have to do it in seconds. Like, you have to understand the rhythm. You have to. Like, so many other people are involved.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So that was probably my. That was way stressful than the.

[Sarah]

So, like, you can't have. There's, like, no egos. Like, you can't be like, oh, no, no, no, I'm gonna do it.

[Kirby]

Yeah. No, no. And you can't have an ego in this job.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I mean, I tell everybody this. We are being paid to perform a service. It's not about us. And you have to show up to take care of them. And when you don't take care of them, that's when they know you're not the right fit for them.

[Daniel Martin]

This leads me to another question. What's the kiss of death for a makeup artist and a client? Is there something where you lear other people, if you do this, you will inevitably never be asked back to work with that client. Or is it truly just a personality? A personality thing?

[Kirby]

I think it's personality. Personality. I mean, there have been times where I. I've only divorced a couple clients just because I couldn't feed what they needed. And you just get to a point where, like, you know, we're not meshing. We're not meshing, and that happens. I remember years ago, Renato, we were on set, we were shooting something, and we're talking, and then I said something about my client. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. You should never say that these people are your clients because they're paying you. Because if they don't want to work with you, then they don't need to work with you.

[Daniel Martin]

They can switch.

[Kirby]

They can switch. And I was like, oh, he's. He's totally right.

[Sarah]

Do you feel like going back to social media that this younger guard maybe has, like. Like, bigger egos because their success is also equated to their social following.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Daniel Martin]

And their own personalities.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I've seen people hire these makeup artists, but then when they show up to do the work, it's not what they see on social because it's been filtered, it's been touched up, and it's just like, oh, shit. Like, oh, that's. That's not always a good fit.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And a lot of it, too, is the publicist fault. The talent publicist.

[Daniel Martin]

Why?

[Kirby]

Because it's just they're seeing that, you know, these. Some of these people are working with certain people, and they just assume. Oh. Whether they're trying to leverage their following or help elevate this client, it may not be the best fit. And it really boils down to personality.

[Daniel Martin]

When you said earlier that you didn't mesh, that you've only divorced a few clients, and because you guys, you couldn't give them what they needed, what does that mean?

[Kirby]

Just when you just part ways, you. It's either a personality thing or maybe something happened or you just. I can't. Like, I. There's one particular person that I was working with, and she. I mean, she was really sweet, but she was just, like. She just needed me to just tell her how amazing she was or how beautiful she was. And. And I'm not that.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I have that face. Like, if. If something's wrong, you see it on my face. Like, Megan can just knock me in two seconds. She's like, what's going on? And I just can't do it. I can't fake the funk. And it's just like, I'm not that person, and I'm not gonna blow smoke up your ass just for the sake of bl.

[Sarah]

And I feel like there's a lot of people that.

[Kirby]

So much. Lord, I can't. I just can't.

[Sarah]

That's what I love about, like, all of your clients. I feel like it's all just like, your true friends, like Ali Wong. Like, you guys have a good time.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's like making sure that they feel and look their best, because so much about that is you don't. I don't ever want my clients to feel like they have to worry about their makeup, because once they start worrying about their makeup, they're not going to feel comfortable. Especially someone like Ally who has to go out and make people laugh. It's hard.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah]

That's like. She has no energy for that.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You just want to send her out feeling good.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

She doesn't have to think about it.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So it's like you just, you know, you do your job, and if she likes something great, she doesn't. She'll let you know. But don't. It's only makeup. It's not. You're not curing cancer.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Yeah. It's not brain surgery.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Fix that.

[Sarah]

Is there someone that you haven't worked on yet that you'd like to work on?

[Kirby]

Oh, gosh. That's such a great question. I love Tilda Swinton.

[Daniel Martin]

I knew you were going to say this because this is what he said the first Episode.

[Kirby]

Oh, I did. Okay.

[Sarah]

You have another six years to get Tilda.

[Kirby]

Tilda putting that out there. She's just. She's like a unicorn. She's like the unicorn to me.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Just like. And she's so confident and just so cool and just. I love that. I'm just attracted to those kinds of people, those women.

[Daniel Martin]

Totally.

[Sarah]

Okay, we're gonna put that out in the universe again for you.

[Daniel Martin]

Okay. What is your advice for truly learning how to do your own makeup?

[Kirby]

Understand what you don't like. Because I think once you understand what you don't like, then everything else makes it easier. It's like when I tell my friends, like, you know, I went. I'm gonna go to Macy's and try to find a makeup artist to do my makeup. And I'm like, well, you should find someone that you like their makeup up, and then more than likely, they're going to, you know, replicate that for you. You don't want to go to Mac and be like, I'm natural. Do you know what I mean?

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Which you can, but.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

What about, like, watching tutorials or, like, is that a good way, you think?

[Kirby]

Yes and no.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

I feel like people are wasting so much product now watching those tutorials. Like, who the hell is doing this?

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And just seeing it all drip, and then they're just trying to. To meld it, and then you're like, oh, my God, I have way too much. I just feel like you should watch those tutorials, but then just take what you can handle.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And apply it to yourself. But, like, don't try to replicate, especially if you're not confident in doing it. And that's what it boils down to. If you're not confident in doing all of these steps, then figure out what you're comfortable doing.

[Sarah]

Okay. Daniel, you have some very exciting news from the House of Tatcha.

[Kirby]

House of Tatcha.

[Daniel Martin]

House of Tatcha.

[Sarah]

What do you have to share with us?

[Kirby]

So everyone's been a fan of dewy skin cream ever since its inception.

[Daniel Martin]

It's the best.

[Sarah]

You guys were the first.

[Kirby]

We are the first. Thank goodness. But it was one of the moisturizers that was just a little too heavy for me. We finally came out with a beautiful dewy milk.

[Sarah]

She's so cute.

[Kirby]

She's so cute. And she's so light. I have it on now, so you still get that dewy finish, but it's so much lighter.

[Sarah]

It's like a. Almost like a serum.

[Kirby]

Yeah. And it feels amazing.

[Daniel Martin]

It's so cute.

[Sarah]

Super lightweight. Absorbs really beautifully into the skin.

[Daniel Martin]

It does, I feel. I do love the dewy skin cream. I usually would wear it at night.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Not under my makeup.

[Kirby]

So many people have told me that.

[Sarah]

Or I would just get a tiny bit.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah, it's like a tiny bit, but with this. Yeah. I feel like I would wear it during the day because it does dry down nicely. It doesn't leave you looking exactly. Too shiny. Yeah, it's really beautiful.

[Kirby]

And it's great under longwear foundation because a lot of times longwear foundations tend to be more matte and drying and usually those are water based too. So this is so compatible with that on top of it.

[Daniel Martin]

Oh, my gosh. Love. So when is it launching?

[Kirby]

It's launching this month.

[Daniel Martin]

Okay.

[Kirby]

At ulta and sephora.com.

[Daniel Martin]

Ulta. That's a new. That's a new thing.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Since you've been on.

[Kirby]

Yes. Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Crazy.

[Kirby]

I. I love that they're at Ulta.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Can we just talk about how cute these charms are? So there's a charm for the Kissu lip mask and for the silk sunscreen stick. Is it the stick or is the mini.

[Kirby]

It's the silk sunscreen, so. Oh, my gosh. It's a mini lotion.

[Sarah]

No excuses.

[Daniel Martin]

No excuses.

[Sarah]

Reapply all the time now.

[Daniel Martin]

Can people buy this?

[Kirby]

I'm not. I know.

[Daniel Martin]

Is this an exclusive?

[Kirby]

Like, I think so, because I know the Kisu I had to, like, get for you guys.

[Daniel Martin]

No, it's amazing because it comes with a little tiny. And you can pull it up like rubber. Rubber around. Yeah, I.

[Kirby]

And then the sunscreen. I think we just launched. But I'm. I'm sure it's all limited edition.

[Daniel Martin]

Oh, my gosh. I'm obsessed.

[Kirby]

I feel like people are obsessed with charms now.

[Daniel Martin]

No, I feel like I'm back in fifth grade. I had a backpack with like 80 charms on it. Yes.

[Kirby]

So this was a thing back then.

[Daniel Martin]

My JanSport was like, so the zipper was millennial nostalgia. We're going back to this. I mean, the children.

[Kirby]

So, like, what year?

[Daniel Martin]

96.

[Sarah]

Like. Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Kirby]

Okay. Well, I was in my 20s.

[Sarah]

But you also weren't like, a middle school girl.

[Kirby]

No, I was totally in middle school.

[Daniel Martin]

Carrying on a backpack with textbooks and like, it was.

[Sarah]

She was like our hand sanitizer.

[Daniel Martin]

Yes.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

I had an elbow.

[Kirby]

Did you guys have Trapper Keepers?

[Daniel Martin]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Oh, you did? Okay.

[Daniel Martin]

We had Trapper Keepers.

[Sarah]

And then it was like I would make the. My book covers out of, like, Maggie coffee and pitch bags.

[Kirby]

Oh, wow.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Daniel Martin]

That was such an LA thing. I did magazines. Really?

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Some man. Man's torso over my.

[Kirby]

Like, oh, my God. I didn't know that was a thing.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. Like, you could buy the book covers that were, like, the elastic that you could, like, put over, or you could do paper, and, like, one period in class, you would be learning how to cover your book to protect it. So they'd have to buy new books every now.

[Kirby]

Okay. Can I ask you guys a question?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

What was your. Your makeup in the 90s or, like, back then when you're in school?

[Daniel Martin]

I think about this because I'm like, it would be fun for us to go back to our routines.

[Sarah]

Well, I saw that TikTok and I posted it recently about the girl who was like, you can't trick me. I wore Dream Mousse Foundation. Oh, my God.

[Daniel Martin]

Maybelline.

[Sarah]

I loved it. It was not the right shade for me, but I just smeared it. I didn't need it. I smeared it all over my face.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God. And then I was a big, wet.

[Sarah]

N wild girl because it was, like, budget, and I loved it. That liquid liner, like. Like, oh, my God. It was my favorite thing ever.

[Kirby]

Is that brand still around?

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah, I think so.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

That's amazing.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

I used l' Oreal True Match.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Daniel Martin]

It had a lid with a spatula in it to help apply, so I really liked that. But my primer was Vaseline.

[Sarah]

You were so ahead of the game.

[Daniel Martin]

I was so ahead of the game. Like, I didn't even know I would take Vaseline and put it on because I wanted my skin to be as hydrated as possible. Not knowing that, like, that's not a hydrator.

[Sarah]

And then putting the foundation on top of that.

[Daniel Martin]

Putting foundation on top. No brows. Literally the most sparse brows you've ever seen in your life. Voluminous l' Oreal Voluminous Mascara to the gods. Coat after coat after coat. And then once I got into high school and I learned about Sephora, I would pay good money for Dior to actually bring this back. There was this moisturizer that I can still smell to this day, and it was a fluid, and it dried so nicely. And then I stopped using my Vaseline and I started using that.

[Kirby]

Do you remember the name of it?

[Daniel Martin]

I do not. I've tried looking it up, and I cannot remember it for the life of me.

[Sarah]

I went to the archives.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. And I never wore it. Lip products.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. I was a. No, I was a big.

[Daniel Martin]

I never wore Lip products.

[Sarah]

I was a Big hard candy girl. They had these little eyeshadow palettes and it was like glitter. And I think they made lip products too.

[Kirby]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. I had a few of their lipsticks in my kit.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And you didn't even use like, like Lancome Jelly.

[Daniel Martin]

Oh, I did Juicy Tubes.

[Sarah]

Juicy Tubes.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

I take that back. Juicy Tubes were my shoes, like, out.

[Sarah]

Of your pocket so people could see.

[Daniel Martin]

And I lost them all the time because they'd fall out of my pocket. Yeah, like status symbol. Juicy Tubes.

[Kirby]

Shut up.

[Daniel Martin]

Really light pink with the shimmer. Was obsessed with Juicy Tubes. But I didn't wear eyeshadow. Literally. It was like, I look back, I'm like, wow. I really did not know how to do my makeup. I just wore gobs of mascara. If I found a black eyeliner rimmed the back under, I was like, this.

[Sarah]

Surely will make my eyes look bigger.

[Daniel Martin]

Let me just same. I'm like, why don't I look like Britney Spears yet?

[Sarah]

And then like the hard candy, like blue glitter eyeshadow all the way here. No brows.

[Daniel Martin]

No brows, no eyeshadow. For me, blush was a big one. I just used like a covergirl and.

[Sarah]

Like a. I was just talking to someone about this. Nars had a Taj Mahal. It was like an orange.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

That was my entryway into orange blush. And ever since then, I was like.

[Kirby]

I have that blush in my arches.

[Sarah]

But it was literally like, so orange because we were all so orange back then.

[Daniel Martin]

Wait, you know what I'm lying about? The lips Cargo had those double sided, circular.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God.

[Daniel Martin]

Your lashes on one side and the other. And I loved them, but they were huge circular tins that, like, I would try to stick in my pocket. And I'm like, I can't. What am I doing here?

[Kirby]

Where did that brand go? Oh, my God.

[Daniel Martin]

You literally just bring it back, bring it back.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Daniel Martin]

Prescriptives.

[Sarah]

I miss Prescriptives because that felt like their mascara. I feel like I. That was my first mascara.

[Kirby]

What was their fragrance? Calyx. They had this amazing fragrance. Okay, Estee. I mean, I started my career at Mac.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And then I went and started working at Aveda. So I. I mean, Estee Lauder brands are. Will always be to my heart. But Prescriptives needs to come back.

[Sarah]

They were like, clean, right?

[Daniel Martin]

They were clean way before. And I felt like when I was using it, it was like, good for me. But before we had terms like, totally. What about clean or whatever.

[Sarah]

The packaging was very chic and it.

[Kirby]

Was like, it was ahead of its time.

[Daniel Martin]

Minimize it Totally was.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Daniel Martin]

Clinique made a product. It was a lip gloss.

[Kirby]

Black Honey. No.

[Daniel Martin]

Well, I love Black Honey, but I used this. It was a bright, bright pink, like a strawberry colored pink. And it had sparkle in it. And it was called Kissy Fit. And then I made my AOL instant messenger name. Kissy Fit curbs 05.

[Kirby]

Oh, that's good.

[Daniel Martin]

And to this day I like bring back aol.

[Kirby]

Oh my God.

[Sarah]

Bring back Kissy Fit.

[Kirby]

I didn't have a computer in the 90s. I got my first computer in 2000. Wow. Yeah, I had a pager and I used to get faxes, like my call sheets through a fax. We'd have to like. We'd get a beep from the agent, go to a pay phone, call the agent.

[Sarah]

And then you couldn't even use Google Maps to figure out how to get there.

[Daniel Martin]

I kind of wish we could go back to that cuz it's like you paged me, but like it just depends if I can get to a phone.

[Sarah]

Right, Right. I kind of love that you like really had to be on top of your.

[Kirby]

Oh yeah, you kind of. You had to know where all the studios were.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

The train. Like my first job like, like one of my first gigs when I moved to New York was working as like a day player on Sex and the City third season. It was such a hard job.

[Daniel Martin]

Why?

[Kirby]

I was a peon. I was like the, the. I was helping the assistant with stuff. But I learned the subway system because of that. Because I had to. Yeah, I had to run around, do all the things, pick up makeup, drop stuff off. It's the first one there, last one out. Like it was crazy.

[Sarah]

And that's when the show was like, like big.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

Was there a, a makeup product that you remember getting for the show?

[Kirby]

Oh God, that's such a great question. I used to always go to Alcone, which is like the makeup artist shop there. Sponge. I mean this was before fucking beauty blenders. It was like that brick sponge.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Always getting the sponges.

[Daniel Martin]

So many sponges.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Your job?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

At Mac. What was the hero product of that time?

[Kirby]

Oh, gosh, it was Spice lip liner, Taupe lipstick. I had an arsenal of studio fix.

[Sarah]

Do you use any of the Mob Beauty lip liners?

[Kirby]

I don't know what that brand is.

[Daniel Martin]

Okay, so Vic Casal, who was the original formulator for Mac, created Spice, created all of these early aughts Mac products, launched a brand with his co founder Alicia. It's called Mob Beauty.

[Kirby]

Oh, wow, that's cool.

[Daniel Martin]

Independently owned.

[Kirby]

Where are they? Are they Canadian or.

[Sarah]

Oh, they're here.

[Kirby]

Oh, well, because at the time, I.

[Sarah]

Think Vic is Canadian.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. But I don't know where they both are based, but they have a lab in Palm Springs.

[Kirby]

Oh, amazing.

[Daniel Martin]

When Aaron, love.

[Kirby]

Yeah, I agree. So where do you find them?

[Daniel Martin]

So online, and I think at Credo is where they're at primarily. But I'm hoping they expand because they. When Aaron Parsons came out and said Mac Spice is different.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Daniel Martin]

We had Vic come on the podcast and he showed us his journals of the actual Max Spice formula.

[Kirby]

And she was right.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, also, he was saying that, like, she had a formula from, like, the 2000s, and by that point, the formula was already so deviated from the original that she didn't even have the original Mac Spice. Like, the color that she had that she was comparing it to was not even the right shade.

[Kirby]

Oh, wow.

[Sarah]

And then Mob created the original shade. They made their own version.

[Kirby]

And is it out now?

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Ooh, I need to find this.

[Daniel Martin]

It's called M1990. I actually have one.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God.

[Daniel Martin]

I'll give it to you. Cause I have to make it.

[Kirby]

No, no, no. I'll take a picture of it. And that's so awesome. I love that.

[Daniel Martin]

Ye. That's great. And so they make a bunch of really makeup artist forward products.

[Kirby]

Oh, my goodness.

[Sarah]

Super sustainable.

[Kirby]

Oh, wow, that's cool.

[Daniel Martin]

Like, was a part of creating Pact Collective, which is, like, a big sustainability initiative that they put in, like, Ultas, I think, and Burritos, Nordstrom racks.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God, I love that.

[Daniel Martin]

Yeah. So that we're such huge fans. But then it was funny because then Mac launched. They have their spice.

[Sarah]

But then they launched warm Spice.

[Daniel Martin]

Cool spice. Cool spice or no. They launched, launched. Yeah. Cool spice.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

To be the original. To go back to the original. Have you tried the new powder foundation?

[Kirby]

The studio fix? I love that episode. Watching that episode you guys did. I haven't yet. I still love the og.

[Eva Chen]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I would be curious to. It's one of the only, like, makeups that I can actually wear myself because I have such sensitive skin. I would love if Urban Decay brought back gas. Do you remember that lipstick?

[Sarah]

What color was that?

[Kirby]

It was, like, a dirty mauve. So it had, like, this, like, depth to it.

[Daniel Martin]

Ooh, I wonder if Wendy Zomner will. If you messaged her and said, create gash for Callirae, she'd do it. Her new brand.

[Sarah]

She'd be like, okay, just for you, Daniel.

[Daniel Martin]

Daniel, we could keep you for three more hours.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God. We're done.

[Sarah]

We're done.

[Daniel Martin]

But now our third episode will be you and Megan.

[Kirby]

Oh, that would be fun.

[Daniel Martin]

You and Megan together.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Daniel Martin]

The Duchess.

[Sarah]

We have a Daniel.

[Daniel Martin]

We're. We're waiting.

[Kirby]

Let's put it out there.

[Daniel Martin]

She's a California girl.

[Sarah]

This is totally a podcaster.

[Daniel Martin]

She's a podcaster.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Daniel Martin]

She has children like you?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God. I have to tell you, I shared your.

[Sarah]

Oh, I know.

[Kirby]

You totally know. With her. And. And. Oh, my God. Let me. I'm gonna pull up the text right now. She was like, so blown away.

[Sarah]

So I made Zoe and I watched the episode. Zoe's a big fan of the show and we made the Fruit Rainbow. Cause she was so excited about it. And then I sent Daniel a picture and he sent it to Megan.

[Kirby]

I sent it to Megan.

[Sarah]

And I also said, you know, she's a real life princess. Mind fucking blown. Zoe was like, like, what? And I was like, wow. Let me show you pictures of her wedding.

[Kirby]

Sweet. She's like, oh, my goodness. Who is this gorgeous girl? My goodness. She's just so adorable.

[Sarah]

Zoe.

[Daniel Martin]

Zoe. Wow.

[Sarah]

Has no idea.

[Daniel Martin]

Zoe's gonna be like when she's a teenager.

[Kirby]

I have something for Zoe that I forgot to bring, but I have this.

[Sarah]

Oh, the sprinkles.

[Kirby]

The sprinkles. The flowers.

[Sarah]

Oh, the flower sprinkles. That's okay. I'll see you again.

[Kirby]

Wow. Wow.

[Daniel Martin]

You can't even use them.

[Kirby]

You can't use those.

[Daniel Martin]

You had to say those. It's like an. Yeah, that's an artifact.

[Sarah]

Where can people find you if they aren't already following you?

[Kirby]

Just Instagram. I'm lucky I got my name, Daniel Martin, because it's the whitest name ever.

[Daniel Martin]

Awesome. Thank you, Daniel.

[Kirby]

Thank you so much. I love you guys. This is so fun.

[State Farm]

As the main character of your life, you know how important it is to make the right choices for you and how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. With Estate Farm Personal Price Plan, you have options to help create an affordable price for you so you can continue living your best life. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is the there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state.