Do Gen Z and Gen Alpha Have it Worse Than Us When It Comes to Beauty Standards?

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Do Gen Z and Gen Alpha Have it Worse Than Us When It Comes to Beauty Standards?
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan
Release Date: May 27, 2025

In this insightful episode of Gloss Angeles, co-hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan delve deep into the evolving landscape of beauty standards, particularly focusing on how younger generations—Gen Z and Gen Alpha—navigate these pressures compared to previous generations. The conversation seamlessly blends personal anecdotes, viral social media phenomena, and industry trends to paint a comprehensive picture of the current state of beauty norms.

---

1. Magical Moments at Disneyland's Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique

[00:38 - 09:58]

Kirbie and Sara kick off the episode by sharing their recent experiences at Disneyland's Bibbidi Bobidi Boutique, a popular destination where children receive princess or knight transformations. Kirbie recounts the delightful experience of transforming her daughter Zoe and her friends into princesses, highlighting the emotional and memorable aspects of the visit.

• Kirbie:
  “We picked the Snow White dress because to me, it was the prettiest. [03:11]”

• Sara:
  “She will remember this forever. [06:48]”

They discuss the various packages offered, the joy it brings to children, and the associated costs, emphasizing the significance of creating cherished memories despite the expenses involved.

---

2. Personal Beauty Treatments: Dysport and Skin Health

[09:58 - 13:05]

Shifting from childhood enchantment to adult beauty routines, the hosts discuss their personal engagements with cosmetic treatments and skincare. Kirbie shares her decision to receive Dysport injections for crow's feet, emphasizing the importance of honest consultations with her dermatologist, Dr. Sam.

• Kirbie:
  “I finally got some Dysport. [10:05]”

• Sara:
  “I can't wait for people to start speculating what I got done. [11:18]”

Sara also touches upon her own skincare journey, including mole removals and the candid conversations with her dermatologist about the necessity and outcomes of such procedures.

---

3. Viral TikTok Video: Redefining Beauty Perception

[13:05 - 17:30]

A poignant segment of the episode centers around a viral TikTok video by artist Devin Rodriguez, which profoundly impacted both hosts. The video features strangers describing each other's appearances, which are then sketched by the artist. The twist reveals that each woman's self-description falls short of how the other perceives her, highlighting the often distorted self-image many hold.

• Sara:
  “It was like a Dove commercial in that it's, like, so emotional. [14:25]”

• Kirbie:
  “A lot, a lot of glitter. [05:27]”

This segment underscores the theme of self-perception vs. external perception, illustrating how social media can both harm and help in redefining beauty standards by fostering a more compassionate and realistic view of oneself through others' eyes.

---

4. Intergenerational Beauty Standards: A Comparative Analysis

[17:30 - 19:21]

Kirbie and Sara delve into how beauty standards have evolved over generations. Reflecting on their own experiences growing up without the pervasive influence of social media, they argue that today's youth face more intense and multifaceted beauty pressures.

• Sara:
  “I think the generation now has it harder because they are constantly... [18:01]”

• Kirbie:
  “We are looking at ourselves way more than we ever have, but there is more diversity. [17:59]”

They highlight the duality of increased beauty diversity against the backdrop of constant self-monitoring and susceptibility to criticism, exacerbated by digital platforms.

---

5. Economic Strain and the Decline of the Lipstick Index

[19:21 - 26:52]

Transitioning to industry trends, the hosts discuss the end of the lipstick index—a term coined during the 2008 financial crisis suggesting that beauty products remain resilient during economic downturns. Citing the latest insights from Business of Fashion, they explain how the beauty industry is now grappling with declining sales due to economic pressures in 2025.

• Sara:
  “I have to agree with this just right out the gate because I even find myself... [20:12]”

• Kirbie:
  “It's not really indicative anymore of us to be like, oh, we need a treat for ourselves... [21:56]”

They explore factors such as oversaturation of the market, shifting consumer behaviors towards value-seeking, and the impact of tariffs on brand sustainability. The discussion also touches on how traditional retailers are being pressured by platforms like TikTok Shop and Amazon, leading to aggressive discounting strategies that further complicate the market landscape.

---

6. Future Implications and Industry Outlook

[26:52 - End]

In concluding the episode, Kirbie and Sara speculate on the future of the beauty industry amidst ongoing economic challenges. They ponder the fate of new brands and the shifting dynamics of consumer loyalty, emphasizing the need for brands to adapt to the changing financial realities and consumer expectations.

• Kirbie:
  “Well, we are coming off of a long weekend, so I think it's fine to just focus on this one piece of beauty news. [19:29]”

• Sara:
  “Really hard time to be launching a new brand. [26:52]”

The hosts express a desire to bring industry leaders like Artemis Patrick of Sephora or Keisha Steelman of Ulta Beauty onto the podcast to gain deeper insights into navigating these turbulent times.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Gloss Angeles provides a multifaceted exploration of beauty standards, blending personal narratives with broader societal and economic trends. Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan effectively highlight the heightened pressures on younger generations, the nuanced shifts within the beauty industry, and the enduring quest for self-acceptance in a rapidly changing world.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Kirbie:
  “We're talking about her daughter, her eldest, Zoe. [00:59]”

• Sara:
  “I have a little cyst in my back right here. [12:51]”

• Kirbie:
  “She's very blessed child. She's very spoiled. [01:06]”

• Sara:
  “Don't feel bad. [12:43]”

---

Note: All timestamps correspond to the provided transcript and may not reflect the actual podcast's timing.

Transcript

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[Kirby]

Hi, Kirby. Hi, Sarah.

[Sarah]

Welcome to Los Angeles. We have a princess on our hands.

[Kirby]

We do a queen, actually. Oh, she said she was a queen because I think in Snow White, she becomes a queen because she takes over the evil queen.

[Sarah]

Okay. So for people that are like, what the fuck are y' all even talking about right now? We're talking about her daughter, her eldest, Zoe.

[Kirby]

Her eldest child, Zoe. We finally. We finally did the Bibbidi Bobidi boutique at Disneyland, which, if you're not familiar, it is where you get a full princess or queen or knight transformation. Yeah, they have that option.

[Sarah]

I did not seebiddy Disney.

[Kirby]

Yeah, I didn't see any knights. I did not see any little boys being transformed. Saw a lot of girls. Little girls probably around Zoe's age, but I think. So it starts at three. You can do it as early as three. And, you know, I think the dress sizes go up to, like, eight or nine. So you have to make an appointment. You have to make an appointment. It's very busy. And we.

[Sarah]

Teaching them structure.

[Kirby]

Yes, exactly. So we decided to do it because one of Zoe's best friends, Mila, turned five. And I've been pushing it for a while because as we all know, Zoe is. She's just very blessed child. She's very spoiled. So I was like, this is, like, a big deal. So, like, let's, like, try to ride it for as long as we can. So I was like, okay. This is. And it's fun to do with your friends, right?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

So it was Zoe, her friend Mila, and their friend Isabel, the mom's. And we went. And it was a really, really sweet experience. So you check in, and then you have an appointment with one of the ladies, and they walk you through the different packages, which. You gotta save your money for this. So it ranges from, I think it's like $45, which I'm not actually even sure what $45 gets you. Probably gets you, like, a little bit of pixie dust and that's it to $450. I think 500 is the max. And that's like the biggest package. And I was like, we're not doing that.

[Sarah]

$450 is how much I spent on my prom dress, which my grandmother loaned me that money.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

And then I had to pay her back every week with the money I made for my job. And then at the end, she gave me my money back, but she was like, I wanted to teach you.

[Kirby]

Something. I told you my prom story. I asked my neighbor to make the green Britney Spears dress.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And I didn't tell my mom. And my mom.

[Sarah]

Was your mom having, like.

[Kirby]

She threw my. My clothes out the window. She was so pissed at me. Anyways, back to me spoiling Zoe. So we picked the middle package, and it's like a.

[Sarah]

Which was how much?

[Kirby]

It's $200 per kid.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God.

[Kirby]

So you pick a dress. And so by the way, the 450 to $500 dresses look like. Like full on bridal.

[Sarah]

Like quinceanera.

[Kirby]

Quinceanera. Like flower girl wedding dresses. Like, beautiful. But I'm like, we're not doing that today. The $200 package one, like, those are like the dresses that you buy at. You know, you see the girls walking around Disneyland, you know, Elsa. So there's every princess and Queen Elsa, Aurora, Snow White, and then they have, like, some of the girls from Encanto.

[Sarah]

What would you have picked?

[Kirby]

Okay, for you? For me, I wanted. I liked the Snow White dress because to me, it was the prettiest. Has, like, you know, all the different little, like just flair, the flare of it all with the collar in the back. Zoe and Mila, I think both wanted Aurora.

[Sarah]

I would have gone with Aurora. It's pink.

[Kirby]

It's really pretty. Unfortunately, it was sold out.

[Sarah]

Structurally gorgeous.

[Kirby]

Structurally gorgeous. Sold out in their size. So obviously the most famous, popular one. Everyone wants to be Sleeping Beauty, right? Everyone wants to be Aurora. It's fine, though. Cause Zoe's been having, like, the Snow White kick. We haven't watched the live action yet, but I think because it's been around, she's been seeing it. So we decided on Snow White. Then what happens is you pick the hair accessories that you want. I don't know why they even offer it, but they offer these, like, rainbow extensions and floral crowns on top of the crown. And of course, all the girls were like, the rainbow one, the rainbow hair. And I'm like, that's not her hair. Like, we could have just like, blown your hair out and it would have.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. She Would have been so cute with her little bob with the thing she.

[Kirby]

Wanted, the extensions, which I'm like, they.

[Sarah]

Know what the children want. They know. They know they'll get them early. Yes, get the extensions in there early.

[Kirby]

Exactly. So then they escort you to the Bibbidi Bobbidi boutique. So you start in the enchanted chamber, walk over the Bibbidi Bobidi boutique, you change into your princess dress. And then each person or each child gets, you know, their own salon chair. And it's not facing the mirror because they want it to be a full reveal. And the women who work there are so cute. Like they're like walking them through and they're like, this is going to give you magical powers and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. A lot, a lot of glitter. A lot, a lot of gel. I was like, oh my God, are we going to get that out tonight? They do the nails, nail polish. Glitter nail polish.

[Sarah]

So cute.

[Kirby]

Yes. And then they do this like, you know, spell or whatever. Biddy Bobbidi, boo. And then first they, they take the cape off and show the parents and like you and they're like presenting princess Zoe.

[Sarah]

So cute. But was she queen?

[Kirby]

She was, I think she said Princess Zoe, but Zoe was like, I'm queen. I'm queen Zoe.

[Sarah]

Oh, wow.

[Kirby]

Because the story. The story, yes. And then they spin her around in the chair and open the curtains to the mirror. And the mirror, like there's lights up. I know. It's so cute.

[Sarah]

So cute.

[Kirby]

And then I thought that was it. I thought that was it. But this package includes a full on photo shoot which I only know about this because my nieces have both done it and both of them are like, we didn't get a photo shoot. This is a new addition. So they have a full carriage, they have woodland creatures and a horse. And so what they do is they bring you in and then Zoe, they're like, the photographer is so sweet. She's like, okay, put your hands like this around your face. And then like all the classic princess hug. The rabbit is just so cute. They do the whole photo shoot and they print it out and then they send you the digital. It's actually like you're like, okay. When all said and done, $200. It's definitely, it's a splurge. Zoe's very long.

[Sarah]

You have a memento. She got a costume. She will literally use her hair extensions.

[Kirby]

She will remember this forever. Yeah. They send you home with a little makeup, palette, nail polish, a little backpack. My nieces still remember it. So I, you know, If. If you have a little girl, little boy wants to become a princess or a knight. Like, it's definitely expensive, but it's seriously just. It was so entertaining.

[Sarah]

Do they have Ariel or Cinderella options?

[Kirby]

They do. They do.

[Sarah]

Because my favorite is Ariel, so I probably would have.

[Kirby]

Okay. You're like, my niece. You're like Katie.

[Sarah]

I would have gone for Ariel, probably, or Cinderella. Cause I did dress up as Cinderella in my first grade Halloween.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And you could. So there were other options for, like, buns, which I kind of wish that we would have done a princess bun.

[Sarah]

I couldn't tell what her hair actually looked like because of the big flower crown and then the hair extension. So I was like.

[Kirby]

So it was like, should they just slick. It was a slick back. And then they did a ponytail, and then they tied the hair extension.

[Sarah]

I would have loved to have seen her in a bun.

[Kirby]

Same. I would have loved a bun, but.

[Sarah]

This was probably more painful.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, she wanted it, and she wanted the extensions.

[Sarah]

The photos are precious.

[Kirby]

I will share some of those.

[Sarah]

The little hands by your face and.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God. So Kade was taking a nap during this time, and then he woke up, and she was, like, transformed. And he, like, didn't recognize it. He was, like, waving at her. It was really cute.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. Wow. Don't tell her that. She's like, no, I am a queen.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah. So if you have a trip to Disneyland planned and you have a child.

[Sarah]

And you're debating about doing it, you.

[Kirby]

Should just do it.

[Sarah]

Just do it. It's really adorable.

[Kirby]

But, like, I was like, we need to work at the Bibbidi Bobbidi boutique.

[Sarah]

Oh, no. I. So I told my brother's in the military. And I said, nick, you need to leave the military. You have the height requirement for Goofy. Move to Anaheim. Live in Anaheim for six months. Guarantee you Disney corporate would be like, sir, you're going to the big leagues. We're sending you to Orlando. Then me and my entire family can move to Orlando. My mom can work in the bakery in one of those windows making tigger tails. Nick can be Goofy because he would rock it.

[Kirby]

Truly.

[Sarah]

I could be Max. I was like, listen, I'll do character. I'll be your son. I'll be Max. And then we can learn the perfect cast and dance together in a parade. My dad's like, I'm just gonna stay at home, be retired, and then Nick's girlfriend can be a VIP tour guide, and we can all just, like, live our best life.

[Kirby]

See I love this for you.

[Sarah]

But then I was telling my mom, like, also, she could do. Because she was a cosmos artist, right? Oh, she could do the Boppity Boppity Boutique.

[Kirby]

She could definitely do the hair and the makeup.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it was really, really fun. I, like, I'm gonna make a little reel because I documented every second of it.

[Sarah]

They clearly don't need help promoting this.

[Kirby]

No, they don't. They don't.

[Sarah]

But if they do, at any point, Sarah and I will gladly go to Disney for a day and make over. That's actually one of my dreams of life, is to absolute dream.

[Kirby]

And just to see their faces.

[Sarah]

They're so excited.

[Kirby]

So excited.

[Sarah]

Don't they do this thing where it's like, there's a wand and you stand and, like, you look in a mirror beforehand, and then it, like, opens up and then.

[Kirby]

Okay, so before they go into the dressing room.

[Sarah]

Yes, okay.

[Kirby]

Yes. They say, like, oh, my gosh. Like, your dresses are actually. They shrunk. You have to help me say the magic words to, like, turn them into your size. And so that's when they did. It was really cute. Okay.

[Sarah]

That is adorable. Absolutely love this.

[Kirby]

So much fun.

[Sarah]

Okay, so while Zoe went to Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique, Sarah went to Facile, I went to Dr. Sam, and Dr. Sam.

[Kirby]

And I finally did it, guys. I finally got some dysport.

[Sarah]

I mean, the way that Sarah's like, Dr. Sam is humoring me and giving me some dysport in my crow's feet. And I'm like, where? Like, where?

[Kirby]

No, but I. This is. I love Dr. Sam for so many reasons, and I know that you love her so much, and that's why I was like, I'm gonna go to her and I'm gonna talk to her. Cause she's gonna tell it to me. Give it to me straight. Like, she's not gonna tell me I need something that I don't, and she's gonna tell me if I don't need something. So I was like, I have been looking at some of my pictures, and I notice I have, like, more crow's feet. And she was like, okay, do you want a little bit here? Cause she's like, point around, obviously, my crow's feet area. And then she said that typically, you could go underneath.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

Right underneath your eye. And she's like, I don't really think you need it there, but we can do, like, two little dots on each side of the eye. And I was like, okay, let's do it. She was like, are you like dysport? Are you okay with dysport? And I said, yes. And then she did it. And I texted Kirby immediately, and I was like, you would be so proud of me. And I told Dr. Sam, Kirby would be so proud of me. And it was great. And I feel like I'm starting to see it, but I Probably not, because it takes two, three weeks.

[Sarah]

It takes two weeks. Sarah sends me this DM last night, being like, what did so and so do to her face? And I'm like, looking at it. I'm like, know, maybe Botox. And she's like, I can't wait for people to start speculating what I got done. I'm like, with your four units of dysport? And then I see her today, and she's like, like, like giving me the weirdest look. And I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, notice? I'm like, no, because it hasn't kicked in yet. And I don't think you need anything.

[Kirby]

I'm so excited. I need a little something.

[Sarah]

Okay, well, I can't wait to see you in two weeks.

[Kirby]

Thank you. Also, I was. Dr. Sam would be okay with me saying this, but I came in from, like, my yearly skin check, and she was like, I don't need to see you every year. Sa.

[Sarah]

Really?

[Kirby]

Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. And she's like, you're not high risk. You don't have history of skin cancer. She's like, I could see you in five years.

[Sarah]

Really?

[Kirby]

Yeah. She's like, unless you notice something. Like, she's like, you know, obviously pay attention to your skin, your moles and things like that. She's like, but I don't really need to see you this often.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I mean, I actually heard that from several dermatologists where I was. It was instilled in me, you go every year for your yearly skin check. But then I started hearing more like, well, if you're not high risk, like, you don't have the history. Like, you were saying you're not outside a lot and you're not noticing active changes in certain areas.

[Kirby]

Exactly.

[Sarah]

Then you don't need to. Because I was kind of feeling bad about myself. And then I think I did talk to Dr. Sam about it. I think it was her. And she was like, don't. Like, don't feel bad.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Cause I was like, you're actually fine.

[Kirby]

Yeah, I was like. Cause I was stressing out about, like.

[Sarah]

Oh, I haven't been in so long. She's like, if you haven't Noticed anything crazy then, you know, I did want her to check.

[Kirby]

Remember, I have this, like, little cyst in my back right here.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And I feel like I couldn't tell if it was growing or not. And she was like, no, that's super, super, super superficial. And she was like, if we take it out, the scar might be more noticeable than the actual cyst.

[Sarah]

Totally. I had her remove a mole on my neck that I felt like was bleeding a lot. Like, I would, like, pick it. It would scab over and it would bleed, and it was just like a continuous cycle. She's like, obviously, we have to biopsy it. Like, we're going to send it away to a lab. It came back, you know, benign. It was fine. But, yeah, I. I've been asking her if I can get this mole on my chin removed. It's, like, basically colorless. It's just risen, and it's gotten lighter since I've been getting older. And I don't like it. I want it to be smooth there. And she was like, you need to see a plastic surgeon for that if you really want it done. Because they would have to. The way they would have to cut it out. It'd have to fall in the same line as the way that your mouth lines are. So that would look like a giant hole in your chin. And she's like, I honestly do not think it's worth it to get it taken off.

[Kirby]

I mean, I can see it. I don't even know what you're talking about.

[Sarah]

So it's, like, annoying to me. But then again. Okay, so I actually wanted to talk about this on today's episode. There's this video that went viral on TikTok, and I was sobbing watching this. It is. I can't remember what the brand was or if there was even a brand associated with it. It felt like a Dove commercial in that it's, like, so emotional. But they had this artist in a subway, and they found these two women, and they had the women speak to each other first.

[Kirby]

And then were they friends? Strangers.

[Sarah]

Strangers.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Then the artist is facing away as the person comes in and sits down and also faces away. And the artist is saying. It's essentially like a sketch of, you know, of their personal criminal or whatever.

[Kirby]

Oh, okay.

[Sarah]

Like, basically somebody describing to someone.

[Kirby]

I see what you're saying. So the stranger is describing the other person, and this artist is sketching it.

[Sarah]

Yes, but at first, the. They describe themselves. So the artist is like, tell me about your nose. Like, tell me about your face shape. Things like that. And so the woman is the first woman, white woman, older woman, talking about, like, what she looks like. And he's drawing it, and you're like, okay, yeah, like, it's starting to look like her. Whatever. And then it flips and says, describe the woman you met earlier. And they describe each other, and then they reveal both of the photos to these, each individual woman by themselves. And literally, it's like the way that the other woman described you. You are so much more beautiful than what you actually are describing of yourself. And the photo that was drawn based on the other person's perception of you looks more like you. I was sobbing.

[Kirby]

Wait, but what is the brand? It's such a mess that you can't remember it.

[Sarah]

I saved it on my phone. Y' all are going to hate me for not remembering this, and I'm so sorry. If you're listening, it's obviously an ad. It was, but I'm like, I can't. I was watching it late at night, too. I was about to fall asleep, but I was also crying. My mistake. It's actually not for a brand. It's for this artist. His name is Devon Rodriguez or Devin Rodriguez. And this video has 12 million views now.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Sarah]

And the comments are amazing. They look more like themselves when others describe them. I wasn't expecting this. I'm crying. Notice how even the tone of these women changed when they started talking about one another. Their voices were less harsh, so much more tender. They literally lit up. And then someone's like, why do we hate ourselves so damn much? There's no way I could describe any part of me without a mirror. That's the thing. I was thinking if, like, someone was like, describe yourself. I'd be like, uh, brownish hair and, like, a squarish jaw. Like, my nose is kind of like. I don't know how I would be able to describe it. And I guess this particular artist. I hope I'm saying his name correctly. Devin. Devin Rodriguez. Apparently, he does these social experiments a lot.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Because someone said, this is my favorite social experiment of yours.

[Kirby]

Wow. Okay. Well, that's a great opportunity for a brand to partner with him.

[Sarah]

Someone literally says, this was a dove commercial about seven to 10 years ago. It's such a great concept. So maybe.

[Kirby]

Oh, I see.

[Sarah]

Yes, he was inspired. But Dove, hey, like, you should partner with him. Because literally, it was like, I was like, okay, we really have to stop. Like, I'm, like, picking apart this mole on my chin that apparently nobody else can see or cares about. So, yeah, no, here we are.

[Kirby]

That's what I. That's what I was talking to Dr. Sam about yesterday. She was just like, I just to feel like I don't want to add her, but she was like, I can't wait to just see, like, patients that are over 40. And she was like. Because it's so hard to listen to young people pick apart their faces and they're so beautiful, and they think that they look like this certain way, and they don't. And they don't even realize that. And then it's. Until it's too, you know, too late, and you're like, oh, my God, I was so beautiful and so young.

[Sarah]

I think about that a lot when I look at myself in college or in high school, how insecure I was. And I'm like, I was beautiful.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Like, and my mom told me that growing up all the time, she never.

[Kirby]

Collagen in our faces. Yes.

[Sarah]

And, like, I just was so insecure about, like, what other people thought about me. I wasted time.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I. I always think about, like, if it was harder for us to grow up during the era of, like, the magazines, like, Photoshop. Yeah, Photoshop.

[Sarah]

Like, you know, no body diversity.

[Kirby]

Nicole Richie, like, Lindsay Lohan.

[Sarah]

No diversity at all.

[Kirby]

You know, or now with social media, even though we're. We are looking at ourselves way more than we ever have, but there is more diversity. So I don't know. Like, it's hard. Both are hard.

[Sarah]

I think both are hard. But I think that the generation now has it harder because they are constantly. There's so many different ways to see yourself now and so many ways to be attacked for who you are.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Versus for us.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

We didn't have a cell phone when we're constantly looking at ourselves.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Like, our phones didn't have cameras.

[Kirby]

I mean, even, like, now recording this podcast, I'm like, I have never looked at myself from that angle before. Like, it's crazy.

[Sarah]

Oh, yeah. I'm constantly like, I'm getting this fixed. Like, I'm getting my chin fixed because of the side profile thing. So you're constantly kind of looking at yourself at all angles at all times.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And I think that's really hard when you're young and impressionable, even if you are seeing, like, different standards of beauty, different types of beauty out in the world that you can relate to.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Sarah]

I feel like we did have. It was a blessing to grow up when we did because we didn't have the option to, like, yeah. Be discriminated against, criticized, anything based off of, like, a social profile.

[Kirby]

Either. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was like we still were in a little bit of a bubble. Yeah, it was still hard. It was still definitely hard. But yeah, you're right, it is much harder right now. Okay.

[Sarah]

There's not that much news, but we are coming off of a long weekend, so I think it's fine to just focus on this one piece of beauty news.

[Kirby]

Interesting.

[Sarah]

The end of the lipstick index. We talk all the time about how in a recession beauty thrives. Not anymore, babes.

[Kirby]

Not in this economy.

[Sarah]

2025 has put a stop to that. So this is of course from our friends at Business of Fashion. It says after years of double digit growth and a perception of being impervious to wider economic downturns, the beauty industry is finding that cash strapped customers aren't interested in quote, unquote, little luxuries. I have to agree with this just right out the gate because I even find myself as someone who is in the beauty industry who has certain elements of my image that I have to maintain my nails. I'm literally like, you know what? I don't think I can afford $200 to get my nails, my hands and my feet done every three weeks.

[Kirby]

Totally.

[Sarah]

If I can push it that long.

[Kirby]

Or I'm like one color, I can't with the extra nail, like nail art. I can't totally.

[Sarah]

So it's like, should I just go get them removed and then start doing my press ons again? Like I'm in the pandemic. I'm really being more cognizant. These things that I did, like I used to have a membership to squeeze to get a massage every month. Canceled it. Yeah, put it on pause. I just am like, I need to save as much money as I possibly can right now. So Daniela Morrisini kind of outlines how we're seeing this play out because we're getting a lot of these like first quarter earning earnings reports. Coty reported a 6% sales decline. L' Oreal usually has double digit gains, but only had a growth of 3.5%, which is very low. And then conglomerates like Estee Lauder and Shiseido saw their sales continue to slide. And lipstick index is a term that Leonard Lauder, who obviously second generation company leader, he coined in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. And I remember during this time the conversation was actually about nail polish. How like when in doubt, like sell a nail polish, like a nail polish will sell you, you will still get, you'll still get a response in that aspect. And the theory was that in times of economic shock strife. People turn to small luxuries such as lipstick to boost their moods. And post pandemic, she writes, that was true. Beauty categories like skincare saw enormous growth both in consumption and venture capital funding. But based off these earnings calls for the last quarter, that's not the case. And I was reading a lot of the comments on the post that business of fashion put up about this, and people were like, I'm not surprised. There's oversaturation. There's too many brands. There's too many things that you need. The turnover for a trend is too quick.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

People lose interest in a product way more quickly than they used to. So it's not really indicative anymore of us to be like, oh, we need a treat for ourselves, when it's like, well, there's always a need for a treat for ourselves at this point.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

So at what point is it an actual large expense versus being these small treats to give ourselves every once in a while?

[Kirby]

Right. So during the pandemic, during COVID there was also a slump.

[Sarah]

No, no, it was actually. Skincare was booming. Makeup was booming.

[Kirby]

Okay, okay, okay. Because that's what I thought. So what you. What do you think makes it different now?

[Sarah]

I think that people are. The term recession is, like, full blown.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

It's like we are hearing we're going into recession. I think people are losing their jobs. The tariffs are a really big deal. So I think a lot of people are starting to like that term is just in their mind.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Versus in the pandemic. I don't. I didn't hear a lot about recession during the pandemic.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I felt like it was more like companies were just trying to figure out how to sell the product, like, to convince them that they still needed it because we were still at home.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

But obviously, like, yes, skincare, everyone was, like, doubling down on their skincare routine.

[Sarah]

And even hair afterwards.

[Kirby]

Right. And then definitely post pandemic, like, everyone was like, I'm back. Like, let's do this.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And we were told there was gonna be like this roaring twenties effect.

[Kirby]

Right, Right.

[Sarah]

And then obviously all of this stuff in the last year or last several months happened. We get these tariffs, we get the news of this recession, Even to the point where hairstylists across the country, Daniella says, are reporting that customers are switching to low maintenance styles, like, quote, unquote, recession blonde, which are less expensive to maintain. I see so many more videos on TikTok of people dying and highlighting their own hair at home because they're like, hairstylists and hair colors have lost the plot in terms of how much they're charging people. Yeah, I can't afford to do this anymore. Maybe I'll go once, twice a year, but like in the meantime I gotta figure out how to maintain this at home.

[Kirby]

Right.

[Sarah]

Which is really, I mean I think that's also indicative. It's really showing that people are like, where can I pinch pennies? I don't want to give up like my look per se, but I also am not able to afford the lifestyle I maybe afforded even two years ago.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah. That's so crazy. Well, I wonder what changes we'll see. Do you feel like we'll see a lot of. I feel like this news, plus like the tariffs. Do you think we'll see a lot of brands shuttering?

[Sarah]

I think the tariffs are going to be a bigger deal for brand shuttering, especially if they're not already focused on being produced here in the, in the US and we're already starting to see that. I mean like brands are closing right and left. But this story on business of fashion actually says that value seeking behavior doesn't mean a total stop to beauty purchasing or even fewer trips to Sephora. This, this first line actually makes me think that like brands like Elf and Emco will continue to be popular because they are cheaper than the rest and they're duping just like flat out a bunch of other brands. But Daniela says it does mean more consumers become more attuned to deals, discounts and promotions. And the rise of TikTok Shop and Amazon as bonafide beauty retailers is pressuring traditional full price retailers. On Nordstrom's website, a 70 milliliter bottle of Chloe perfume is $162. Some Amazon sellers have it listed as low as the $72. I would actually love to have Artemis Patrick, who is the CEO of Sephora on the podcast. We have been wanting to have her for a very long time. Or Keisha Steelman from Ulta Beauty.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Who we also both know and love and talk to them more in depth about these sales that they have and how that's either working in their favor or not.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

And how it's trained the consumer.

[Kirby]

I mean there are just so many sales now and then the dates change, they're extended and then now they have to compete with like how many prime days and then also Target. It's just like.

[Sarah]

And Ulta even has like the hair spring hair event and then this event and then that event. And then I'm like, is 20% really that much of a big deal. But then now with all these tariffs, I'm like, well, I guess it's kind of like taking it down a little bit more. So maybe they will benefit from these sales even more in the future.

[Kirby]

Totally. And then I think just like mentally when you're like a consumer, like, yeah, like I will be more likely to buy something even if I didn't want to because there is a sale.

[Sarah]

Right. Also, if I know that I love something, I rather stock up on it.

[Kirby]

Yep.

[Sarah]

And then get that 20% discount on a large portion of them, knowing I'm going to use them all.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Versus maybe trying something new. So I wonder how it'll fare for like new launches and newer brands as well. Really hard time to be launching a new brand. If you are. I'm we're with that. Where yeah, we're wishing you peace, love and money. And also sanity. All of it.

[Paige Desorbo]

Hey, this is Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad and this episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Summer's here and with weekend getaways, celebrations and more on your calendar, Nordstrom has everything you need for your best, best dress season ever. From playful prints and breezy fabrics to 70s inspired looks and bright handbags. Discover new arrivals from your favorite brands like Reformation, Veronica Beard, Farm, Rio, Levi's and more. It's easy too, with free shipping and free returns in store order pickup and more. Plus NordicLub members enjoy free 2 day shipping on thousands of items in select areas. Shop today in stores [e-mail].