How to Pick Your Best Hair Color and The Truth About Warm Tones with Hollywood's Haircolorist Matt Rez

Summary

Gloss Angeles: How to Pick Your Best Hair Color and The Truth About Warm Tones with Hollywood's Haircolorist Matt Rez

Released on March 3, 2025

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Gloss Angeles, co-hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan delve deep into the art of hair coloring with their esteemed guest, Matt Rez, a renowned Hollywood hair colorist. Matt brings his extensive experience working with celebrities to the conversation, shedding light on selecting the perfect hair color, understanding warm versus cool tones, and maintaining vibrant hair color amidst everyday challenges.

---

Meet Matt Rez: Hollywood's Go-To Hair Colorist

The episode kicks off with Kirbie and Sara introducing Matt Rez, highlighting his impressive clientele and accolades. Sara remarks, “[Matt Rez] received an award by InStyle, and Chrissy Teigen gave him the honors, which is so… I love her” ([00:53]). Matt shares a charming anecdote about bringing photos of celebrities like Chrissy Teigen to the salon to perfect his craft ([01:10]).

---

Celebrity Hair Inspirations and Personal Experiences

Sara enthusiastically lists some of Matt’s high-profile clients, including Addison Rae, Hailey Bieber, and Florence Pugh. She shares her personal connection with Hailey Bieber, stating, “I do feel that I am a twin flame with Hailey minus us cutting our hair at the same time” ([01:53]). Matt responds warmly, affirming Hailey’s place in his clientele ([01:54]).

Kirbie recounts her recent hair transformation with Matt, describing subtle highlights aimed at maintaining a natural look while adding dimension. She anticipates further lightening by summer, humorously stating, “Ooh. Come summer, you're gonna be a blondorexic, and you're gonna want to do more” ([02:26]).

---

Understanding Hair Porosity and Color Fading

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around hair porosity and its impact on color retention. Sara inquires, “Can you kind of explain what [hair porosity] means?” ([13:05]). Matt and Kirbie explain that high porosity hair absorbs and loses color more quickly, likening it to a sponge that soaks up moisture excessively ([13:24]).

Kirbie emphasizes the importance of reducing porosity to maintain vibrant hair color, noting, “If your hair is porous, it's going to continue to bleed out the color” ([12:19]). They discuss practical solutions, including using water filters to combat hard water effects and recommending specific products like Epray’s Healthy Hair shampoo and conditioner for preventing buildup without weighing the hair down ([16:00]).

---

Choosing the Right Hair Color: Balancing Warm and Cool Tones

The conversation shifts to selecting the best hair color based on individual features. Matt shares his top theory: “how light or dark you go depends on how light or dark your eyes are. And the tone of the color should be complementary to your skin tone” ([23:50]). Kirbie elaborates, advising not to exceed two levels lighter than one’s natural color and to incorporate highlights before considering a full color change ([24:12]).

They discuss the inevitability of hair reverting to warmer tones over time, with Kirbie explaining, “Hair will always, always revert warm” ([22:35]). Sara shares her personal journey from preferring cool blondes to embracing warmer tones that better complement her skin and eyes ([09:59]).

---

Maintaining Hair Color Between Salon Visits

Kirbie and Matt provide actionable tips for maintaining hair color at home, especially during economic downturns when frequent salon visits may be impractical. They discuss the efficacy of at-home glosses, recommending products like bond builders to seal the cuticle and prevent color fading ([29:07]).

Kirbie also touches on emerging products like L'Oreal's Color Sonic brush, debating its ease of use and potential for user error. She cautions that while such tools can be convenient, professional application ensures optimal results without damaging the hair ([44:20]).

---

Listener Questions and Expert Advice

The episode features a segment where Kirbie and Matt address listener-submitted questions:

1. Transitioning to a More Natural Blonde Look:

   • Listener Emily Clare Bear seeks advice on achieving a natural blonde with dimension without a full balayage. Kirbie suggests melting the roots and introducing lowlights within two levels of bleach to avoid a “meltdown” effect ([32:19]).

2. Preventative Bonding Treatments:

   • Gabrielle Keani asks if bonding treatments are necessary without existing damage. Matt and Kirbie affirm their benefits as both preventative and corrective measures against heat and chemical damage, recommending lightweight options to avoid buildup ([34:46]).

3. Effectiveness of Hard Water Treatments:

   • Katherine Barrow inquires about treatments like Malibu packets for hard water. Kirbie shares her professional experience, emphasizing the importance of subsequent treatments to seal the cuticle after using such products to prevent unwanted color changes ([37:31]).

4. Color-Safe Hair Care Products:

   • Matt asks about ingredients that make shampoos and conditioners safe for colored hair. Kirbie advises focusing on strengthening the hair with products free from sulfates and artificial sugars, recommending Epray for fine or porous hair ([42:20]).

---

Final Thoughts and Recommendations

As the episode wraps up, Kirbie reinforces the importance of choosing neutral tones for versatility and longevity, stating, “If you're not sure, go neutral” ([27:24]). Matt appreciates the nuanced approach, acknowledging that neutral tones offer flexibility under different lighting conditions ([28:34]).

Kirbie and Sara encourage listeners to embrace their natural features while experimenting with hair color, ensuring that any changes are gradual and maintain the health and integrity of the hair. They also highlight the significance of professional consultations to achieve personalized and sustainable hair color goals.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Gloss Angeles provides invaluable insights into the complexities of hair coloring, from understanding porosity to balancing warm and cool tones. Matt Rez’s expert advice, combined with Kirbie and Sara’s relatable anecdotes, offers listeners a comprehensive guide to achieving and maintaining their best hair color. Whether you’re a hair enthusiast or seeking professional guidance, this discussion equips you with the knowledge to make informed and personalized hair color choices.

---

Notable Quotes

• Sara Tan: “I do feel that I am a twin flame with Hailey minus us cutting our hair at the same time.” ([01:53])
• Kirbie Johnson: “Hair will always, always revert warm.” ([22:35])
• Matt Rez: “Your old or broken phone can let you down. But at Verizon, trade in any old phone...” ([00:00]—Note: This is part of an advertisement and skipped in content summary.)

---

Connect with Matt Rez

Follow Matt Rez on Instagram @mattrezhair and explore his expertise in creating stunning hair transformations. For more insights and beauty tips, stay tuned to Gloss Angeles every Tuesday and Friday.

---

Gloss Angeles is available on Acast. For more information on privacy, visit acast.com/privacy.

Transcript

[Verizon Representative]

Your old or broken phone can let you down. But at Verizon, trade in any old phone from our top Brands and get iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence with a new line on MyPlan and iPad and Apple Watch Series 10. After all, you don't want your old phone to die on you when you're lost.

[Kirby]

Perfect.

[Verizon Representative]

Or for your broken phone to glitch at the worst possible time.

[Kirby]

Hey, can I get your number? Oh.

[Verizon Representative]

Trade in your old phone for a brand new iPhone 16 Pro, iPad and Apple Watch. Visit verizon.com today. Additional terms apply. Service plan required for Apple Watch and iPad.

[Kirby]

G L A M Los Angeles.

[Matt Rez]

Hi, Kirby.

[Sarah]

Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles. Okay, I don't think he needs an introduction because he is my hair colorist.

[Matt Rez]

Matt Rez, celebrity hair colorist, yours and many others.

[Sarah]

Oh, I'm in good company. So let me just go down the list. Ok. Just this. Looking at his Instagram, first of all, he received an award by Instyle and Chrissy Teigen gave him the honors, which is so. I love her.

[Matt Rez]

Can I tell you that I always used to bring her photos of her hair, her color, like with me to the salon.

[Kirby]

She has beautiful hair.

[Matt Rez]

No one could ever do it correctly, but it's just a compliment to you.

[Sarah]

He works with Addison Rae. He recently took her to that beautiful buttery blonde that I am personally obsessed with. Florence Pugh. Emma Chamberlain. Tate McCray. My girl. My girl. Tate McCrae.

[Kirby]

Everyone loves Tate.

[Matt Rez]

Her hair is so good.

[Sarah]

Adele. Adele. We got Kylie in here. Like truly is a who's who of like who's hair.

[Matt Rez]

I need to know.

[Sarah]

Dua Lipa, Sarah Paulson. Oh my God.

[Kirby]

I just scrolling the gram right now.

[Sarah]

You're like no, a million different people. And of course we've got Hailey Biebs in here.

[Matt Rez]

Yes, Hailey Biebs.

[Sarah]

I do feel that I am a twin flame with Hailey minus us cutting our hair at the same time.

[Matt Rez]

Because you went from blonde to the.

[Sarah]

Brain, blonde to the brunette. She wore hair extensions and then I said she should cut her hair and then she did the bob and so I'm just saying I feel like wavelength.

[Kirby]

It's all me.

[Sarah]

I'm responsible for Hailey Bieber's beauty influence. Yes.

[Kirby]

You guys have done stuff together too, you and Hailey. Yes.

[Sarah]

She's been on the pod and we obviously adore her. We think she's amazing.

[Kirby]

She is.

[Sarah]

Matt, welcome to Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Thanks for having me.

[Sarah]

You're the best.

[Kirby]

Thank you. Sweet.

[Matt Rez]

And Kirby just got her hair done. Tell us what you did.

[Kirby]

Well, Kirby's been very natural for a. And last time I saw you was about a year ago, so we did some very, very subtle highlights just to kind of break it up. And this time, she wanted to go a little bit lighter, and we took her a little bit lighter, but in a way so that it's gonna fade even lighter than where it is now. So. Ooh. Come summer, you're gonna be a blondorexic, and you're gonna want to do more.

[Sarah]

I know. Back to blonde. You know, our social girl, she sent a text to me and Sarah a couple days ago, and she had emojis for both of us.

[Matt Rez]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Did you see my emoji?

[Matt Rez]

I was gonna ask her about that.

[Sarah]

I was brunette, and it.

[Matt Rez]

I mean, I am brunette, but it was, like, the darkest version, and I was like, whoa.

[Sarah]

I was like, I am not. Well, because I do see myself as blonde sometimes.

[Matt Rez]

I still use the blonde emoji for you. Cause she does in my head. You are stupid.

[Kirby]

They need to make an actual emoji that has dimension in it. Because even when I'm doing these photos, befores and afters or things that I post for hair color, I have such a hard time picking. I'm like. But it's not. The person's not really blonde, but they're, you know, and there's different kinds of reds, and there's different kinds of brunettes.

[Matt Rez]

So you need to consult for Apple.

[Kirby]

I need to call them.

[Sarah]

We need, like, a volume in there.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Can someone.

[Kirby]

Rooted blond?

[Sarah]

A rooted blonde?

[Matt Rez]

Oh, my God.

[Sarah]

I would love a rooted blonde in my emojis. Perfect.

[Matt Rez]

Do you feel like people are. I know. You know, everyone, especially post Covid, like, stopped coloring their hair, stopped doing anything that was, like, too much. And we, like, sort of saw everyone go back to their natural roots, literally. Do you feel like people are starting to go back into the, like, highlights? Kind of like Kirby, where it's like you're. You're sort of, like, dipping your toe, so to speak, back into the highlights and going brighter.

[Kirby]

You would think it would be the Kirby route, but I feel like as soon as the pandemic ended, there was, like, this vengeance of, like, I need to get my hair done, and everyone had to do the most. It was like they've done nothing, and all of a sudden, they needed to do everything. Or it was the people that had completely screwed up their hair, and now they needed to fix it because they did it themselves. But generally speaking, I feel like people are. I don't know. It's like the Whole natural thing is definitely in. Again, Kirby. Kirby just sets all the trends that are on everybody, too. Exactly, exactly. But, yeah, no, I think a lot of people are trending towards natural, but obviously something's still done.

[Sarah]

Yes, exactly. I went in. Well, initially, I was sending him pictures of who I wanted. I sent Tate McRae, and I said I was thinking something like this. And I think I also sent Mia Goth to you.

[Kirby]

She was in yesterday.

[Sarah]

Oh. Oh, my gosh. I mean, her hair.

[Kirby]

I love her.

[Sarah]

I love her hair so much. But I was like, I. I once. I was like, I want something like this. And Mia's hair is so different from Tate's, so I'm sure Matt was like, what the hell are you talking about? But then when I went and sat down, we were talking through it, and I said, I want to brighten up and I want to have highlights, but I don't want to be blonde. I think I said that exactly. Like, I don't want to look blonde. And he was like, say less. And so then he did it. And afterwards, I was. Because when we were it, it was blonde. Like, the hair when he was pulling it, I'm like, oh, my God, it's so blonde. Like, this is gonna be crazy. And then at the end, I'm like, oh, it just gives me a little sparkle. It, like, brightens me up around my face.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah. It's literally like you put, like, the whatever sun in or whatever in your hair. This, like, spray, and you went to the beach. Like, it looks, like, really natural.

[Sarah]

Very natural. Not the orange sun in.

[Matt Rez]

No, no, no, no. Beautiful.

[Kirby]

Yes, the sun in. That's like, what you think you're gonna get versus no, but you know what's funny? You're pretty public about the extensions.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Oh, 100%.

[Kirby]

So we're not hiding it.

[Matt Rez]

Yes.

[Kirby]

No, but she just put this beautiful hair in. And so I was like, okay, if we go lighter than the extensions, it's going to look kind of funny. But I was like, let's try to match them. But then during the process, I was like, okay, maybe I should just try to add a little bit into that and see how it goes. But it did go lighter than her extensions, and, you know, I love it. You're going to fade really nice. I'm telling you, you're going to want more.

[Matt Rez]

So what do you do when people come in with these pictures where Kirby said, like, they don't even look the same, and then the person sitting in the chair looks nothing like them? Like, how do you work with them? To achieve something that's actually achievable?

[Kirby]

That's a good question. So what I do is like, I'll look at all these different photos and I'll try to find like the common theme. Like what do you see in all these photos? Sometimes it's a tone, sometimes it's the placement of the color, sometimes it's both. Sometimes it's like so irrelevant to each other that I'm like, I don't even know what you want, let's talk. But then even when we find the one photo I try to like, I'm like, okay, I actually will go through these processes. I'll be like, close your eyes. When you open your eyes, look at this photo. Where does your eye go to first? Whatever part of that photo, let's zoom in and look at that. Then I'll go, what do you see that as? Do you see that as warm or cool? And then I'll go down the list with you. I don't have to do so much because you're very like, obviously this is your thing, beauty. So she knows what she, you know, she knows it. But sometimes people don't know. So I have to, it's my job, right, to like go through these photos, find the common thread and then see which one they prefer. And then based on the one they prefer, then I have to say, okay, like let's zoom into what part you like. Because sometimes what's really part about these photos, like back in the day when I started, you would bring in like a magazine photo, right? So it was like a flat photo, but now you're seeing these on an illuminated screen, right? So it's like you're looking at it and you're like, I'm like, okay, so this is glare, this is lighting and now it's being illuminated. So when you zoom into the parts they like, sometimes it almost looks blue. I'm like, so do you, do you see what I'm saying? So if I recreated that in your hair, in person, in this light, in your day to day, you might end up looking like you have this color that you don't want. So it's just, I don't know, it's just, it's like case to case basis. Some people have the eye and can understand it, some people leave it to you, like do whatever you want. I trust you. So for the most part it's worked.

[Sarah]

It's so funny because I think when I was younger I've always loved hair and I've always. My mom was a cosmetologist so she gave me my first set of highlights. I don't think I've told you this. My mom gave me my first set of highlights ever.

[Kirby]

Really?

[Sarah]

I had, like, bleach blonde Britney Spears hair in seventh grade. I remember I walked into that school. Perfect for you.

[Kirby]

Of course she loves it.

[Sarah]

Weird people. Like, heads were turning. They're like. She went from brunette to blonde. Like, how my mother. So I've always been really fascinated with hair color in general. But it's funny because I would go to my hair colorist after that and take a picture of Jessica Simpson's Christmas album. Okay, if you guys don't know what this looks like, please Google immediately.

[Kirby]

She.

[Sarah]

It's just her face. It's her shoulders up. She has massive hair that's wavy, curled 10 Pavis, like, going to town. Okay. And I would go and be like, I want my hair to look like this. And I remember my colorist going, do you like her color, or do you just like the fact that she has a ton of hair?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And I'm like, I actually think I like that it's a ton of hair. And she's like, you need extensions then. Like, that's not what we're gonna do here. Like, I'm not gonna take you as blonde as Jessica Simpson is. She's like, this is a bleach and tone, babes. Like, you are gonna be. This is crazy. Like, we're gonna.

[Kirby]

She's like, you're gonna need extensions at the end anyway. Skip that step and just go straight to these things.

[Sarah]

She's like, we're gonna have to bleach your eyebrows. Like, crazy stuff. So it's really. I do think the picture thing's really interesting. Cause you do want to give, like, an indication of what you're going for. But then, like I said, I'm sending you Mia Goth and Tate McRae, which. Their hair is very different. Like, I feel like Mia's the picture I had sent you. I think it was during the Maxine premiere. So she had, like, you know, brunette with the bangs, and then towards the ends, it was brighter.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it was.

[Sarah]

And then Tate has, like, all of this brightness, like, around her face.

[Kirby]

So it's the gold. It's the gold theme that I picked up in those photos. It was like, okay. She likes gold and warm, which I think works really well with your skin.

[Sarah]

And your eyes, which is crazy, because I never would have been that person even five years ago. Like, warm. Pre school. I always would be. I want to be a cool blonde, ash blonde. Well, everyone wanted to be cool, and now I feel like we're really embracing the warm tones.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah. I mean, I, like, was delusional and thought that as an Asian woman, Filipino woman, that I could be a cool blonde and for it to look good and maybe, you know, you could do that because you're, like, incredible. But, like, it just did it. When I went blonde, it was like, oh, my God. Well, first of all, it was not cool.

[Sarah]

It was like, I didn't know you.

[Matt Rez]

I mean, it wasn't full blonde. Like, I did, like, thick. I did the thick highlights, like, when I was in college. And then, you know, I tried to play around with it, and I had, like, you know, identity crisis and, like, tried to go full blonde and was, like, orange when I brought in my Chrissy Deegan picture. Anyways, so, like, when you have clients who bring in, like, if I were to bring in a picture of Tate McCra, obviously, like, I do not even have the same coloring as her. Like, how do you, like, talk some sense into your clients?

[Kirby]

You know, what's interesting is I think I've established myself enough as, like, someone who does more natural stuff.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

That I don't get a lot of these big transformations. Transformations. But there are some, you know, some people that do need it for work or whatnot. I tell people, look, if you don't need to do all that for the health of your hair, try to not. But we. Again, I'd like, I have to find that in between. I'm like, okay, what do you like about this? Can we find the middle of the road? Right. Like, something that's not so extreme. But again, like, people. The times that people will do that is when they. When they're having, like, this, like, existential life crisis. Seriously. And it's. That's a real thing. And I'm like. Because they're looking for a change, but they're also looking for control over something. Right. This is one thing. Or they just need a distraction. Right. They're just like, okay, I'm going to do this thing, and then obsess about this. And I don't know, sometimes I wonder, like, do they know this isn't going to work?

[Matt Rez]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And this is just to create an issue and then obsess about it.

[Matt Rez]

Right. Or they don't realize that you could do something really subtle and it can.

[Kirby]

Get the same effect.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay. I want to talk about color fading. What are the top contributors to your color fading? I think that a lot of our listeners that do color their hair are Looking to upkeep in between salon sessions. We are in a recession, so obviously, like, trying to maximize the time between going in. In your opinion, what are the biggest factors when it comes to your hair color? Fading?

[Kirby]

I would say hair porosity is number one. If your hair is porous, it's going to continue to bleed out the color. Most color gets deposited. Right. So it has to penetrate through the cuticle to withhold inside the hair. And when your hair is porous, you know, the cuticle is open, so the color fades faster. So to bring down the porosity of your hair is the number one thing. And then also, water has a lot to do with it. Los Angeles, for example, super alkaline. Like, the water here just rips hair apart. Considering for hair, like, the alkalinity for hair. New York, perfect. Water hair has never been better, never softer. So I would say water is a huge part of it as well, where you live.

[Matt Rez]

So get a.

[Kirby]

Products. Definitely products. Products are huge if they're repairing your hair.

[Sarah]

Okay, I want to go back to the hair porosity. So can you kind of explain what that means? Like, if you have. Did you say. What is it? High porosity?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

If it's very porous.

[Matt Rez]

If you have high porosity, porous hair.

[Kirby]

Normally when it's dry, like, actually, like, not wet dry, It's. It feels dry. It's. It's like a sponge, right? A sponge. When it's wet, it just, like, soaks everything up. And then when it's dry, it just feels so, like, not brittle, but, like, hard almost. Right, okay.

[Sarah]

So there's no, like, dryness.

[Kirby]

Okay, so what? It's. Yeah, so it's actually hair that's dry from different things that's been done to it. But then also it's. When it's wet, it's very wet. Like, it holds on to moisture. And then as she's dry, it's like, everything comes out. So it's like a sponge. You're, like, squeezing a sponge.

[Sarah]

So when it comes to water, what kind of water filter do you recommend?

[Kirby]

There is a brand of water filter that I like. It's from a company called Sante for Health. It's not the most esthetically pleasing one, like the Jolie. And there's. There's a couple other ones.

[Matt Rez]

Isn't it Filter baby?

[Sarah]

I haven't heard of that one.

[Kirby]

Did I make that up? I hear of different ones that clients have gotten. And I'm not like, listen, it might work for some. It just depends on where you live and how Aggressive the water problem is. But the one that I love is, it's that one. And it actually is really good because there's two forms. There's one for well water and there's one for city water. And the city water one, from what I understand, removes something called chloramine, not chlorine. Chloramine is a combination of ammonia and chlorine. A lot of cities will do that because chlorine is very expensive to use to treat the water. So a little bit of ammonia, you know, they say it's safe in the water, but it's not great for the hair. So that combination of chloramine, a lot of filters don't remove, from my understanding, and these do. And then the one for well water is great because I have a lot of clients that live in, like, Malibu or whatnot. And well water, you can have certain metals in it and minerals and all that that like, basically when you're foiling. I've seen some things go down. So it can cause chemical reactions. So that tells you there is that in there. But that's the one that I would recommend maybe. That's a long answer.

[Matt Rez]

No, that's for.

[Sarah]

That's so helpful. And then when it comes to products, as you were mentioning, what type of products should we maybe avoid?

[Kirby]

Products like shampoos and conditioners that are considered heavy. A lot of them will use, like, sugars or oils and conditioners like sugars and shampoos, oils and conditioners that help create the foaminess and. Or the slip. And so those end up artificial sugars and all that end up building on the hair so the hair gets heavier and heavier. You may think that your hair is less porous, but over time, what's going to end up happening is that hair is going to get heavier and heavier and eventually snap because it's only, like, able to carry so much weight if that, you know, or if there's like, if there's buildup and you're brushing through hair over time, that's going to rip out easier than hair that doesn't have that.

[Matt Rez]

Do you have a favorite shampoo or conditioner?

[Kirby]

100%. I'm all about the hair health, so I, I work with a brand called Epray and or E Press. However you say it, however way you like to say it, that's what we say. But with Epray, there is the Healthy Hair shampoo and conditioner. They don't have any of the artificial sugars or oils in there. Much more clean ingredients. So that has helped a lot of my Clients with fine hair. A lot of fine hair happens to be more porous as well. Horse hair that's been bleached and bleached and chemically, you know, treated also is porous. So it could use that as well. You just don't want things that build up on there.

[Matt Rez]

Right.

[Kirby]

And with apres, you know, I've seen the change in my client's hair that are consistently using it, so. Oh, I need that shampoo and conditioner wise, I definitely. I would go with. That's my recommendation.

[Sarah]

Matt introduced me to apres. He was using it on my hair. I think he used it last year when I first got my hair done, and then he started working with them more. And then when I went in for this time, he used it as well and then sent me home with it. It's a bond builder, right?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay. Yeah, so it's a. It's a different. It's different from Olaplex, though, or different from a K18.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Because it's made without the sugars and stuff like that.

[Kirby]

So. So when we met the first time, for your hair, we used the. The spray, the bond builder, the treatment. This time we use the shampoo and conditioner.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

So. So they just released in between. When we. When we saw each other, they had released the shampoo and conditioner. But basically the difference, in my opinion, as far as the shampoo and conditioner goes to other bond builders out there. They don't have those artificial sugars and oils we talked about. But also, a lot of the bond builders don't come in a spray form, and they cannot be left in the hair for too long, and they can end up weighing the hair down with the spray treatment. It's lightweight, It's a spray, and you can leave it in. If you're gonna go to the beach for the day, spray it in, go do your thing, rinse it out later. Or if you've just got stuff to do around the house, you can put it in, leave it on as long as you want, shampoo, condition, and go on your. With your day. So definitely that's. That's what I would say would be the difference. You can't overdo it.

[Matt Rez]

And does everyone's hair benefit from a bond builder? Like every hair texture?

[Kirby]

Yeah, totally. You can get ahead of any damage. Again, I can speak to the one that I know that I'm working with, but we're constantly damaging our hair. You know, if it's like, from heat, chemical and. Or both, you can get ahead of it. You know, as long as, again, it's not building up on the hair, you're preventing, you know, from. From further damage or any damage, really. So.

[Matt Rez]

Okay, let's talk about hair growth. I feel like there are so many products out there, and it's hard for us to know what actually works. Do hair growth products actually work?

[Kirby]

It's hard for me. It's hard for me, too.

[Matt Rez]

In your experience with the products that your clients use or, you know, that you've seen, do you feel like you see a difference?

[Kirby]

I mean, I've had clients that use Viviscal. I've had them use Nutrafol. Different people have different experiences. You know, it's not like one size fits all, so. So it's. I've seen it in some people, for sure. Others, I've, you know, I'm like, one of those people that's like, kind of the Dr. Route, if you will. Like, as far as, like, if you're gonna want to see something happening, I'm not against anything naturally. I think those also work well. But the one that I do know that works really well for hair growth or, like, you know, keeping the hair, is Minoxidil.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

It's the oral version. I have a client of mine who. You actually met her the other day.

[Sarah]

Oh, yeah.

[Kirby]

She has a whole hair protocol.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Dr. Aliabadi. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Oh, amazing.

[Kirby]

A lot of my clients have gone to her for their hair, and she also makes referrals to other people. So that's kind of like the most guaranteed way if there's an answer.

[Sarah]

The most studied way.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah. And is it, like, do you have to be on it for a certain amount of time, or is it, like, sort of ongoing? I guess it just depends on your results.

[Kirby]

I feel like everything has maintenance.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

You know, I would say everything you would want to keep going with. If it's neutrophil, if it's Viviscal or Minoxidil, some people are against it. They're like, I absolutely will never take a medication. I'd rather do those others, which is great, too, you know, so it just depends on you. And I would say anything needs upkeep, whatever it is that we do.

[Matt Rez]

Right. So, like, the serums that claim that, you know, can help hair growth, a lot of these.

[Kirby]

Stick to it. Yeah, stick to it. I would say three months, at least, and then you should be able to see results within three months. Typically, I would say with anything.

[Sarah]

Okay. When people ask for cool tones, but they still get warm, is there a reason behind that?

[Kirby]

Yes, there is. A reason it's the initial lift when it's done. So if you're going lighter, generally what people are doing is going lighter, and they're experiencing what is seen as brass or unwanted tones. We got red, we got orange, and we got yellow. Depending on where you land. Like, brunettes like us, we don't want to see any red. Some brunettes like you, lighter brunettes, also don't want to see red or orange. Some people don't want to see yellow as a blonde. So to that the reason everything leans warm, from my opinion, is that it's not been lifted enough originally. So if you're using toners and glosses as a fixer, you're always going to end up where you started. You're going to start trending that way. So a lot of people will, like, pull up too early. It'll still have, like, an orangey tinge to it. They'll throw a blue gloss over it. It'll be good for the first two weeks, and then it'll start trending the other way.

[Sarah]

That's why. Because my hair was, like, truly yellow when you pulled the foils out. Like, I was. That's why I thought I was gonna be blonde. Blonde. I'm like, oh, like, I'm like, back to blonde, baby. Here we go. And then you did a. But you weren't color correcting the lift.

[Kirby]

I was filled. No, for yours, I filled it in, and then I put in the color that I want. Because I feel like with brunettes, specifically ones that lean reddish, like, you don't have red hair, but there is a little bit of a red reflect in certain lights, that hair reverts a lot more orange. So my way is to go past the orange, get it to the yellow world, and then bring her down to between yellow and what yellow and orange would be. Not to get all, like, technical.

[Matt Rez]

No, no.

[Kirby]

But drop her down to where it needs to be and then have it fade gracefully. And as it fades, it will never fade like orangey to the eye. It'll fade more gold. It'll keep going that way. Because hair does revert over time, and it does warm up as you go, regardless of what you lifted to. So you want to lift past where you want it to end up by a little. Don't go white if you want to be gold. You know what I mean?

[Sarah]

Oh, so we. It will end up going warm always.

[Kirby]

Hair will always, always revert warm.

[Sarah]

Why?

[Kirby]

I mean, do you want me to get technical or from my experience. Yes, please. Hair protein, It's Keratin. The stronger the hair, the darker the hair, the stronger the hair. Right. It's harder to lift. Like, you and me are really hard to lift. And we pull a lot more orange than somebody who has lighter hair to begin with. Right. So I would say that's why it ends up going that way, because hair has to rebuild itself. You know, I've had clients that came into me that went somewhere before me, and their hair was completely. Excuse me, but trashed. Right. And so it takes time for that hair to build itself back up. Hair does, over time, do something. And I'm. Maybe I'm crazy, but I've seen hair turn. If you're doing the right things to it, it starts to. It starts to get stronger. So, like with the bond builders, right? So there is that happening. But I think as far as pigments go, I've seen the pigments always turning warmer regardless. And so people will leave ash, right, and they can go more neutral. That's my goal, like, to get them to a place where they end up neutral. But if I don't lift enough and they're in the orange world and then they fade, they're gonna go back to orangey. So just go a little bit past is what I would say. That's my best. My best answer.

[Matt Rez]

Do you have thoughts on how to find the best hair color for you? This is a big topic on TikTok.

[Kirby]

So I have a whole theory about what the best hair color is for you. I say how light or dark you go depends on how light or dark your eyes are. And the tone of the color should be complementary to your skin tone. That's, like, the simple answer.

[Matt Rez]

Okay, so for me, what would you say if I sat in your chair? Like, I want to change?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Matt Rez]

I don't know what to do. What would you say?

[Kirby]

So I would say to you, for example, I would say, okay, your eyes lean on the darker brown side. Right. Your natural hair is on the darker brown side. Darkest brown, actually. So I would suggest people not go more than, like, two levels off of their natural color to live in the world that would look best on them. And then to begin, I would say always, like, work with a highlight. Even if there's the most soft, natural looking highlight in your hair, I wouldn't go within two levels lighter than yours. So, like, if you came into me and you're like, I want to have some highlights or I want to go lighter, I would recommend that we do the highlight route. And I would probably take you to what we call, like, a Level five.

[Matt Rez]

Okay.

[Kirby]

If you're, like, in the two, three, I wouldn't go past a five on you because I feel like it would just be too. Too much. And then incorporating your natural helps. In case you wanted to go lighter, we can add more to that versus completely changing your base and then adding highlights. Now you have a whole different setup. Like, you have a whole different background to everything. So that's my.

[Matt Rez]

Okay. So. Yeah. So people who come in and want, like, this whole, you know. Well, they don't really know what they want, but they want to change. You wouldn't suggest them to change their base color immediately at first, like, go in with some highlights, and then eventually, by summer, you'll be blonde.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Matt Rez]

I'm just kidding.

[Kirby]

You'll just pull a Kirby. Yes.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

No, but the thing is, it's like, we come with the color that we come because that's what. Ultimately, that's what suits us the most.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kirby]

As we get older, we lose pigmentation in our skin. Right. So our hair starts to also go lighter. We get more white, so we start to lean more gray, and we lose pigmentation. Even the dark hair that we have starts to slowly go lighter and lighter. So I think it's best to keep your natural color. Incorporate it in the silhouette, if you want to call it. But. But not necessarily. I mean, there's sometimes it's a look. Like, if you want to be a bleach blonde, it's a look you're going for. Then it's like, we're going to skip this whole rule about eye color, because it doesn't.

[Sarah]

I was going to say, like, Beyonce. Like, I do not think of Beyonce as a brunette. Like, I think of that woman as blonde. Like, she said variants of blonde throughout her whole career. When you look at the first Destiny Child, Destiny's Child cd, and you see her and she's in those brunette braids, I honestly, it's hard for me to even see it because I'm like, who is this woman?

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sarah]

You know, she looks so. And I feel like blonde is just, like, a part of her now. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Rez]

It's just. It's. She committed to it, and she's returning back.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I was talking to Clayton Hawkins about this. He was like, beyonce's blonde. Like, she might as well have had blonde grow out of her hair as a baby.

[Matt Rez]

She's literally just getting more blonde.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kirby]

And it looks good on her, and.

[Sarah]

It really compliments her because she's figured out the right tones of blonde to Go right.

[Kirby]

You would think I would say there's always an element of neutral in her.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

With her blondes, if it's the more dimensional, it leans a little bit on the goldier, butterier side of the blondes. If she's more. If she's like solidly bleached blonde, I think it leans a little bit, like, more neutral. Cool. But there's always an element of the neutral in there because it's what complements her skin tone the best.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And if you're not sure, my. My number one thing to say to people. If you're not sure, go neutral. Because neutral has both elements. Right. Different lights will bring out the different tones of that color. Mainly it's. It's. If I say, don't go more than two levels lighter than your natural, that typically correlates with your eye color. And tonal wise, I say go with what suits your skin tone the most. And not everyone has one skin tone. Like, I just. I don't think we're all just one. Right. We have different. Because we look dead. Right. If you're like, all yellow or all pink or all whatever. Right. So I like to go more neutral because in different lights, things can come up. And if you have an aversion to warmth, you're like, oh, it's red. It's like if you go with gold, it might look red in some lights. So I try to go like a neutral gold or a neutral cool. And then we can enhance or do more if they want. It's a choice. But I always say, have a little bit of that neutral tone definitely to it.

[Matt Rez]

I feel like that's important to say because I feel like when you are deciding on whether or not you should color your hair, it's like you have to pick between the warm and the cool. But it's like you actually don't. You can just go neutral. Okay.

[Kirby]

And it's really funny because, like, me in life as I have very, like, this is good or that's good. We like this. We don't like this. But when it comes to my work, and this is what one of my, like, ex assistant friends says to me, he was like, that's the only place in your life that you see the middle. And I'm like, you're not wrong. It's like, that's where I. I'm able to see this gradient, and it's fine. Like, we could be a little bit here, a little bit there. But it's true. I mean, that's skipped over. You're not wrong about that.

[Sarah]

What are your recommendations for the best at home glosses? Do you believe in at home glosses?

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

I'm getting a no, but proceed only.

[Kirby]

If it's my brand. No, I'm just kidding. Maybe one day thinking about it. But look, there are products out there and people like them. I'm not one of those hair colorist or hairstylists that trashes, you know, over the counter stuff. I don't think they're always the worst and I might get dragged for this, but it's trial and error. It's hard to say because they're formulated for the masses. They're not specifically for your hair type or your hair type. I think color takes differently, depending on texture, starting point and all that. So is there one that's specific? That's great. I can't put my. I can't say one, but I have a friend in the industry. Her name is Krista Ness and she's lovely. She's a beautiful person inside and out. And she has her brand out there and, you know, people love that.

[Matt Rez]

So I would say her products are so good.

[Sarah]

We love Kristen. Yeah, we love her.

[Kirby]

She's really.

[Sarah]

I mean, I've been wanting her to be on the podcast for a while. I wouldn't mind her and her red hair.

[Kirby]

I love her.

[Matt Rez]

I know, I know. But her products are truly so good and so affordable, which I love.

[Kirby]

Yeah, you know, it's. It's great. I mean, she has the, the gloss line that she has and people love it. People love it.

[Sarah]

I've used her. She has a clear one, like a clear gloss.

[Matt Rez]

I have used that too, which I.

[Sarah]

Think is works and like actually looks good. I haven't taken the plunge, like, trying to do other colors, like, ever. But I know people that do when they can't get to the salon just to like add more vibrancy, like, to their red or to their. Like seal the cuticle. Yes, seal the cuticle.

[Kirby]

That's like with porosity, right? We talked about porosity. It's important to seal the cuticle. That's one of them.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

That you can do. A gloss will do that. It'll like live right on that cuticle, like a little bit below the cuticle. Actually it's demi, but I think she's one of the only ones that I've seen that has like the Demi permanent solution where you kind of like mix the two, which is smart. I think it's. She did a really good job with that.

[Matt Rez]

Do you think people are ruining their hair at all by like experimenting and trying these, like at home solutions, like these glosses or whatever, you know, like instead of coming into the salon.

[Kirby]

I mean, with the gloss, I don't think you can ruin anything. I think maybe the pigmentation that you pick or the color you pick might not be what you want. I would absolutely not ever bleach my hair at home.

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

There's. I was that kid that did that. It was. It didn't go well because you see one thing and then you get another and you're like, this has nothing to do with each other. But when it comes to glosses or even like glazes, there's like the, like the semi permanent that. That are asks almost can't really screw your hair up with that color wise. You might not get what you want, but as far as like damaging your hair, you can't do that without with a gloss.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

Not in my opinion.

[Matt Rez]

Okay, great.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay, Listener questions. Here we go. Those were our questions that we wanted to get out of the way. Now we have some listener questions. Sarah, do you want to take this one?

[Matt Rez]

Sure. Okay. From Emily Clare Bear. I have Emily Clare Bear. I like that fake platinum blonde hair and all I do is get the roots touched up. I've recently wanted a more natural blonde look with some dimension because I feel the color I have now washes me out. I can't afford a full balayage, whatever it's called. And low light scream 2002. Any other suggestions?

[Kirby]

So to that. Okay, so if you're solidly bleached and your roots are coming out. I don't know. Did she mention what color her roots are? Her natural color?

[Sarah]

No, she doesn't. She says she's just. She's platinum blonde. That's been wanting more natural blonde.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

With dimension.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Matt Rez]

So assuming she's not blonde.

[Kirby]

Okay, got you. I'm trying to imagine this person in front of.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Okay, so with a client like that that has already like a no, no, no to low lights. Right. And also doesn't want to do the full on thing of transforming to the balayage look. Right. I would tell that person, I would tell her, I would say, how about you do like a rooted look to the platinum that you have? So like have a root put in and stretch it down a little bit so that there's like a little bit more of a gradient just to get her eye used to seeing that depth. Because as much as platinum blondes want to do that, I feel like every time they do, there's like a version of a meltdown, depending up, like, depending on how tied they are to it. Right. And so I would say do like a melty root to that. If your hair is really dark, you might have to have it lifted and then do the melt. See how you go in that direction. And then I would present the idea of lowlights to them. Lowlights, I understand. I could read 2002, she said, but if they're done correctly or if they're formulated in the right place, for somebody who's coming off of platinum going dark, it doesn't have to be that way. You don't want tiger stripes. I get what she's saying. But, you know, within a level or two of the bleached, you know, but just not go off topic, because I happen to do that a lot. Get it A rooted, melted looking, you know, platinum situation. And then maybe just bring the platinum down to a little bit more of like a buttery moss. Try that.

[Matt Rez]

So she doesn't have a meltdown.

[Kirby]

Yeah, have a melt. Have a melted root, but don't have a meltdown.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

Melt your meltdown in consultations. That's what I should say.

[Sarah]

Exactly. That's your new. That's not a meltdown. Yeah, Melt melted roots, not meltdown.

[Kirby]

You'll probably be like. Exactly. You're like, the best pr.

[Sarah]

Yeah, here we go. I know. I should just start making merch for, like, all of my friends at the beauty industry.

[Kirby]

Like, I'm done with the podcast.

[Sarah]

Bye. Okay, so this is from listener Gabrielle Keani. She says, do we need bonding treatments in our routine if we don't have significant damage already to our hair? Like, do they work as a preventative or only as a treatment to breakage?

[Kirby]

Both. They're both. I would say get ahead of it if you can. If you're styling your hair, you're breaking those bonds down.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

Heat is your number one culprit. A lot of times color gets thrown under the bus, but it's actually both. I'm not saying chemicals are not going to do that, but if you're heat styling, it's great to use a bonder. If you are chemically damaged, it's great to use a bonder. Again, it goes back to what kind of bonder you're using. You don't want to use heavy. Nothing heavy. The. The brand that I love doesn't have that. It's a spray form, so it's very. With Ypres, it's very. It just kind of like, does its thing without weighing your hair down. So to her question, it doesn't hurt. You're just getting ahead of it. So it's preventative.

[Matt Rez]

Okay. Have you heard of Array Gray?

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

You have?

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Matt Rez]

Does it work?

[Kirby]

I actually talked to the owner on the phone.

[Sarah]

Oh, really?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay, tell us more because we are getting a lot more questions about this. I did not know about this brand. Yeah, I did know until people started asking us and I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? So it's the brand that calls itself the. It's like a wrinkle cream for your. For your grays, essentially. Okay, so tell us more about the founder and what you learned.

[Kirby]

So she's actually really sweet. I had a client of mine who connected me with her because I was just going to pick her brain about some ventures that I was going to do at some point in my life, and she was very sweet. I would be lying if I told you. I remember exactly the conversation. It's been a while. But listen, it's been successful and people love it and she's doing great. I don't know the chemical reason or whatnot, but it's. It's. It's natural. From what I remember, she didn't. I guess I can't remember this, but I think she said something along the lines of, like, she can't. She didn't expect it to go where it went, and she's had great success with it. But I heard about it.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Kirby]

I might have some text messages I can look through.

[Sarah]

No, no, no.

[Kirby]

You guys, my brain is so, like. My memory is so, like, here. Okay. Now there. Okay, then. No, it doesn't remember a lot of.

[Matt Rez]

And the fact that you've heard of it and connected with her, I think speaks to the fact that it.

[Kirby]

It's out there.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah, it's out there, definitely. It's pretty popular. And I feel like this is like, something that is obviously a category that is new and hasn't really, like, no one has really figured it out yet. So it would be really exciting if it actually did work.

[Kirby]

My apologies to her if she sees this and I'm not remembering things, but it does. It's done. Great. She's lovely, so definitely support her. That's what I would say.

[Sarah]

This is from Katherine Barrow. Would love to know how Matt feels about filtered shadow. Okay, so we already covered that. We've covered filtered shower heads as well as that. Oh, this. This is going on as well as at home treatments for hard water like Malibu packets or the L'Oreal Metal Detox. And if they're really as Effective as they claim. So we already covered the shower filters. Let's talk about the treatments for hard water. I like this question.

[Matt Rez]

I didn't even. I've never even heard of this.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. I picked up before I got my hair done. I did pick up some Malibu packets at Friends Beauty just because I wanted to have them, not because for any of them.

[Kirby]

You just happen to be there randomly at Friends Beauty, and you're like, I have to spell them.

[Sarah]

Exactly. Okay, so will you explain, like, what a Malibu packet is for people that may not know?

[Kirby]

So the Malibu packets would basically remove water buildup, the metal detox. I'm not 100% sure what they mean by metal detox, but I know there's irons in the water and all that. My only issue. And I do use the Malibu, and it's. It's a great product. I use it in the salon. The only thing is, when you're doing it at home, if you don't seal the cuticle after, you might expose the hair to picking up more of whatever is in the water. I learned that the hard way. I had an actress client years ago that her color did not go well, and we did a Malibu on her. She was in a rush. She had to go to an event that night. This is so long ago. And we had to just get her out. Like, I was in that hyper vigilant, like, I gotta get her out. I didn't think about that step that I would normally do. It just was one of those days. And so she left. And then, like, a day or two later, I got the photos from her. She was like, hey, my hair's turning this, like, purpley color. And I was like, oh, shit. I was like. Because we didn't. Right. So when you're doing it right away after a color that doesn't go well or if you have colored hair. My experience was that now is that for every single case, I can't say that. You know, but in that situation, I was like, okay, we have to gloss after we do Malibu. Doesn't mean you can't do it at home. If you do do it, like, maybe follow it up with, like, a treatment or something that just kind of helps, like, the cuticle right after.

[Matt Rez]

So how do you use.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Like, I would explain to the listener, like, the. It's a powder. So it's a packet of powder.

[Matt Rez]

And do you mix it?

[Sarah]

And it literally looks like a vitamin C powder. You mix it with water, and then you apply it to your hair. And then.

[Matt Rez]

So just, like, in your hand or do you have a bowl?

[Sarah]

No. Okay. In your hand. It's literally just like.

[Kirby]

She's like, girl, I bought this, and I know all about it. Let me show you how it's done. I mean, maybe she had to have it.

[Sarah]

Maybe you use it differently.

[Kirby]

Yeah, but no, I mean, I think that's a suggested use for.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I read when I was reading the packets, so when I used to be super, super blonde, I was told to use Malibu packets to help to keep my blonde from turning warm or getting brassy.

[Matt Rez]

So, like, in lieu.

[Kirby]

Which I feel like it actually goes the opposite.

[Sarah]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Kirby]

I think it could open the door to go warmer, in my opinion. It's, like, for swimmers. Right. Like, if you're in chlorine all the time or if your water has a lot of chlorines in it, it can turn greeny. Right. So Malibu will help remove that right away. As far as it going brassy, I don't know if it. I don't know if I've had that experience, maybe. I mean, obviously, you were Jessica Simpson slash Britney Spears back in the day, so listen, so you know the best when it comes.

[Sarah]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Matt Rez]

I, too, brought in the Britney Spears photos. Again, delusional.

[Kirby]

No, but. But the way we use it in the salon is we. We add water to it in the bowl. Because Craig was like, no, not the bowl. You do it.

[Sarah]

I'm like, do it. Well, I'm talking about the instructions.

[Kirby]

Do it per. The instructions. Do the instructions. Of course, hairdressers, you know, we have our own ways of doing things. And some. Some might do it the way that. That you were saying, but we put it in a bowl. We shampoo the client's hair. We put it over. We put them under the dryer. We put the cotton around so it doesn't drip all over the place with heat. And then we remove, and then we. We squeeze out the stuff. And I've seen a lot of things come out. I've seen very blue, murky wow waters.

[Matt Rez]

This seems like something that would be difficult to do at home by yourself.

[Kirby]

I mean, listen, we're doing the most in the salon. I don't think most people will, but maybe it's the fact that we use heat within and all that also requires for me to gloss it back down.

[Matt Rez]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

I'm speaking from a pro.

[Matt Rez]

No, for sure.

[Kirby]

I don't mean to say anything about any product. No, no, no. That's not how it's done. This is just my experience. And how I use it as a pro, but I don't think it suggests doing a gloss after because maybe if you do it per the consumer route at home, you don't need to.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I see it does. And it's.

[Kirby]

There's a whole different thing where a consumer.

[Sarah]

A hairdryer, it's like something you would do in the shower.

[Matt Rez]

Got it.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I thought the passion you had for it that you would be sitting under a hood dryer at home.

[Sarah]

Maybe one of these days. One of these days when I don't have access to you.

[Kirby]

No, but I. That's the thing. It's like my, I guess professional will do it a certain way. There's a, you know, there's products like that. I'm sure there's a lot of other products coming out that are like that, that you would use it that way on a consistent basis. It's totally different. Right.

[Sarah]

So they do. And so to answer, you don't need hood dryers.

[Kirby]

They do work. Yes, yes, they do work. Yes.

[Matt Rez]

What makes a hair care product like a shampoo conditioner and leave in safe for color? Like, are there ingredients that actually help lock in the color or prevent it from fading? Like, what are. What makes a hair care product color safe? It just says color safe. Like, that's what you should look for.

[Kirby]

I mean, look, a lot of products say that, you know, and I'm not out here trying to, like, say they don't, but I think it was about color fading.

[Matt Rez]

Right.

[Kirby]

Okay. So as far as color fading goes, it starts from the inside out. It's like us as humans. Right. Health is all from inside out. So if your skin looks a certain way or whatever, there's something probably going on. But basically, when it comes to hair color fading, it's again, same thing from inside out. So I would say focus on strengthening the hair in every which way. A shampoo and conditioner that's going to deliver that effect is going to actually help you not fade as much. Again, those artificial sugars and whatnot can weigh down the hair. So that's not going to necessarily help, though. You may feel like, oh, yeah, it feels really good because the cuticles close down. I don't think necessarily over time it's going to do that. I'm not a chemist, so I don't know the exact, you know, ingredients in there that do. But sulfates definitely, you know, help to fade. So if a shampoo says sulfate free, you know, they're not going to lie really quick.

[Matt Rez]

And if you don't have one, it's fine. Are there any, like, drugstore?

[Kirby]

Oh, my God. I thought you said there's any drugs. Why is, why is my mind going on that?

[Sarah]

Any drugs?

[Matt Rez]

Any drugstore hair care, like shampoo conditioners that you like? For example, like we were on this Unilever trip with Dove. They have a lot of, like, bond builder, you know, products. And I mean, so does everyone at this point. Like, everyone carries one. A lot of them have, you know, color safe products. Are there any particular brand that you're like, oh, this is good.

[Kirby]

It's so interesting because it's like one works for one person and then the one doesn't. Right. I guess it's all by trial and error. That's my. I have a hard time. Again, here goes that gray area. When it comes to my work or anything related to my work. It's like, if there is something that works well with yours, great, it might be the best product for you. And. And if it doesn't, there's all these other ones to try. So I'm not anti drugstore stuff I said about hair color too. I'm like, listen, some people just gotta go to the. They have to go to the store and buy some root touch up. They gotta do what they gotta do. There's one that works for them, the other box doesn't. So it's hard for me to pick a specific one. But if it works. Yeah, maybe get the sample size if they have that.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Sample size. Sample size.

[Matt Rez]

Have you seen that L'Oreal root toucher device. Have you seen that?

[Kirby]

Yes. Which one?

[Matt Rez]

It's like a device where you can touch up your roots at home and it's supposed to make it easier.

[Kirby]

Is it like a brush?

[Matt Rez]

It's not a brush. It's like a device. It's called the Color Sonic.

[Kirby]

Let me see it.

[Matt Rez]

My sister just got it for Christmas because she constantly has to deal with coloring her roots.

[Kirby]

So you're basically showing me something that's gonna put me out of business.

[Matt Rez]

No, absolutely.

[Kirby]

I said I have no problem with box color, but no.

[Matt Rez]

So it's like, it's supposed to make it easier. To me, it seems pretty difficult, but you have to, like. I feel like you need to know what you're doing, but you basically.

[Kirby]

Oh, it's like a little brush head.

[Matt Rez]

Yes. It comes with like this box.

[Kirby]

You put it in, like squeeze out the color.

[Matt Rez]

Yeah. You like pump it into this device and then you brush it through your hair and then you let it sit and then you wash it out and it's Supposed to make things easier. It's supposed to be five minutes. So you haven't heard of this?

[Kirby]

I haven't heard of it.

[Sarah]

I haven't heard of this either.

[Kirby]

Or no, I haven't heard of it. I just wonder how you section through as you go. Is there like a thing that helps you? Because, like, with an old school color brush, right, you just kind of like use the end of it to section. I'm not quite sure how this one would work, but yeah, I mean, I've noticed.

[Matt Rez]

I feel like there's a lot of user error that could happen. But again, this category of like, and.

[Kirby]

They come to us to fix it, so it's fine. It's a great product.

[Sarah]

You will always be able to keep.

[Kirby]

People, not just one, but two.

[Matt Rez]

You will literally all.

[Sarah]

You're like, go buy this now and then make an appointment to see me in four weeks.

[Kirby]

I should start promoting at home. Like, find things that may not go or may go great and we're out of a job.

[Sarah]

When you start losing your ethics, then that's when you'll start promoting it. Yeah.

[Matt Rez]

Do you take. Are you taking new clients? Do you take new clients?

[Kirby]

I'm personally not, but I'm actually really happy to share the success with my assistants who are now taking color clients part time themselves. They're still kind of with me and then like, fading out. So I do consults for people to help feed them as well.

[Matt Rez]

Amazing.

[Sarah]

Okay, last question. Where can everybody find you online? Matt?

[Kirby]

Instagram.

[Sarah]

What is your Kindle?

[Kirby]

It's Olor by Matt Rez.

[Sarah]

Perfect.

[Kirby]

I wish I could figure out TikTok and other things. I just can't.

[Sarah]

We'll get you on TikTok.

[Kirby]

It's like the only place I'm at.

[Sarah]

We will get you on TikTok.

[Kirby]

And Kirby actually told me. She's like, you know, you got to just post. You got to keep posting. And I'm like, I know. And then I forget. And then I get all in my head about it. I'm like, oh, it's over now.

[Sarah]

It's like, you have to post.

[Kirby]

She's like, yeah, she's amazing.

[Sarah]

You have to.

[Kirby]

You need to hold classes.

[Sarah]

No, I don't. I do not. But I am so grateful for you. I love my hair so much. I'm going to be blonde by.

[Kirby]

That's right. Summer.

[Sarah]

Summer. Summer, Summer. Even. Even better.

[Kirby]

Sooner.

[Matt Rez]

Thank you guys for hanging out with me.

[Sarah]

Thank you, Matt.

[Kirby]

Seriously. I know.

[Matt Rez]

Now I'm like, I need some dimension.

[Kirby]

Damn, you got all the dimension.

[Matt Rez]

And I like, the fact that you said, like, it's gonna grow out because, like, for me, that's like, the biggest thing is, like, who has the time to come in so often?

[Kirby]

No, there's always a way to do it where it's soft and gentle and graceful. Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend.

[E]

Welcome Back to the OG's without seeing the OG podcast everywhere, man, y'all, everywhere. It's your OGUD here with the public service announcement. Make sure you subscribe to the OGs. This ain't just a podcast, it's a movement. The OGs brings you the stories, the moments and truths straight from the locker room, straight to your ears. From hoops to life on and off the court. We've got the best stories in the game. You'll hear from your favorite hoopers, comedians, actors, entrepreneurs, and a whole lot more.

[Kirby]

Make sure you subscribe, turn your notifications on, and tune in on Tuesdays because the OGs are bringing you the new heat need every week.

[E]

I'm talking about towels flying, you shoes going there where I'm talking about he just whooping OGS out.

[Kirby]

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.

[Matt Rez]

Com.